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Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Time to make a move?

 60 Comments: First  |  Last

I'm sure that I won't be representing the masses with this viewpoint, but personally I think we should take Arsenal's money for Jags (provided we can edge it up to c £15M).

The only proviso being that the majority (well at least 2/3rds) is made available for transfers, or rather one transfer ? the arrival of N'Zogbia (or failing that, Donovan).

Most of the glaring issues with our current side/squad are at the attacking end of the pitch and the lack of a decent winger has been a widely recognised omission for the last 2-3 years (made more glaring by Pienaar's departure). Hence, if we really want to improve our fortunes this year, we need to add some quality in this space and for me N'Zogbia (or Donovan) tick all the boxes AND are available NOW at a not ridiculous price.

Whilst I'd obviously prefer that we cleared out the Yak, Yobo, Bily and potentially even one of Fellaini/Rodwell, the reality is that we haven't had sizeable bids for those players. So far, the only useful bids (ie, £10M plus) have been for Baines and Jagielka. Letting the former go would clearly be madness as he contributes at both ends, so, with regret, I think it's time we suck it up and move Jags on.

Whilst I do love Jags and wouldn't argue he's one of our best defenders, I think we'd all agree he's not perfect (distribution isn't his strong suit) and I'd also argue that he's far from irreplaceable.

In fact, with Johnny Heitinga we have a World Cup Finalist centre back who's desperate to start (and can actually pass the ball), readymade to come in and sit alongside Distin as the first choice pairing. Behind him we have the returning Yobo (okay, not Moyes's first choice but if we can't sell him, he'll be cover), Rodwell (who I'm frequently told is a centre-back by trade) and even Phil Neville as cover, plus the youth options (Garbutt, Dier and Mustafi).

I'd further argue that Moyes has proved time and again able to source defensive gems from the lower leagues and hone them into stars, so it's highly likely he'll be able to do it again.

Ultimately, as our strategy (ie, 4-5-1, hard-working, running our bollocks off to close down) is naturally more focused on defence, it's clear we need to balance this with some real quality and mercurial touch up front. With N'Zogbia, Gueye and Saha/Beckford bombing forward plus Baines and Coleman on the overlap plus Arteta/Osman/Bily threading balls from the midfield, I feel we could have a really fearsome counter-attacking force on our hands.
Chris James, London     Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:32:44

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Grant Smith
1   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:20:33

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Instead of N'Zogbia, we are now being linked with the re-signing of James McFadden on a free transfer!!!

Just when we thought we had scraped the bottom of the barrel!

James Stewart
2   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:19:47

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It would be sensible but Moyes doesn't sell to buy. Plus N'Zogbia has almost wrapped up a move to Villa now so that ship has sailed. £9.5M for him is a snip! He's one of the best players in the league. Same as we payed for Bily!

This one will really piss off Moyes I think as he's a player he's wanted all year. The fact that we cant even stump it up in installments paints a grim picture of our finances.

We are treading water at the moment and you have to wonder how much longer Moyes will be motivated to do it.
Andrew Ellams
3   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:21:24

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The Skysports website seems to think that Everton fans will be delighted to see the return of a very popular former player.

N'Zogbia and McFadden however might not be a bad thing. Would allow us to sell Bily to raise some cash too...
Sean Smythe
4   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:34:50

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Yes, I reluctantly agree. I have more faith in Moyes moulding a bog standard defender into something better than him doing so with more attack minded players. Hopefully N'Zogbia will drag his feet for a while and we can jump in there. But I'm not hopeful.
Andy Peers
5   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:23:13

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Jags is an Evertonian and he is going nowhere. I would sell Fellaini as I think he will be gone next season anyway. N'Zogbia has had a bid accepted from Villa so we have missed out on him. I was impressed with Barkley and as we are never going to buy anyone we may as well blood him into the team this season.

Scouring "NewsNow Everton" this morning and Moyes has high hopes for Anichebe and also McFadden maybe coming back. We are in deep shit when these are our best headlines. I hate to be so negative before the season starts but I am dreading the two derby games as I am sure it will show the major differences and what lack of investment does to a team.

Ian Kearney
6   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:47:34

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Looks like weve missed out on N'Zogbia, underlining how badly we are being run at the moment.

I think Jags is the one I'd sell out of 'valued' players, if we have to sell, never been a huge fan anyway. But like others have said, if Felli doesnt sign a new deal he would be the one to go if there was any interest.
Jay Harris
7   Posted 25/07/2011 at 14:46:14

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Chris, I have to disagree with you on:

"Most of the glaring issues with our current side/squad are at the attacking end of the pitch."

I believe our inability to keep clean sheets has put more pressure on the attacking players to score more.

Every good team is built on solid defensive options and while I do not rate Jags in the "top defender" stakes he will be difficult to replace even if Moyes gets all the funds to spend on replacements.
James Stewart
8   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:01:02

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Jay@7 makes a very good point.

The defense last season was shambolic at times and Baines aside is in a far worst state than the rest of the team if you ask me.
Mark Tanton
9   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:02:13

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I think we should sell Jagielka.


Do you trust the club to do it properly?

a) Everton will probably drag it out and end up selling very close to deadline day, meaning it will be virtually impossible to re-invest the money.

b) We'll mess Arsenal about and they will not appreciate attempting to do business with amateurs, and instead look elsewhere.

c) Jagielka will go into the Tottenham game having asked for a transfer, and Moyes will have dug his heels in; only to let him go on deadline day.
Chris Bannantyne
10   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:06:48

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We could sell Jags...

OR we could pass around collection plates at the matches, like they do in church, and use that money for a signing.... After a few seasons, that is.

Oh well, maybe not a very good idea.

Let's see Kenwright come up with a better one (one that doesn't involve smashing down walls for no real reason, that is).
Norman Merrill
11   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:11:31

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I personally don't want Jagielka to leave. I know the financial problems at the club make supporters suggest who we should sell to create funds for the manager.

A question I would like to ask is would Jags be subjected to the greedy bastard remarks made to others?

Brendan O'Doherty
12   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:17:02

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Sky Sports:

"With funds reported to be tight at Goodison Park..." ? lol

Should read:

"With funds non-existent at Goodison Park..."

Sean McCarthy
13   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:19:02

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Can we please please please stop mentioning Landon Donovan like he is the new Messiah!!! If he was really THAT good do you think Clubs other than Everton would be chasing him???

Yes, it was nice while he was here but he's now 2 yrs older and not getting any younger.....

On the other hand, if it's between him and McFadden... it's USA USA USA all day long!!!!
Chris Bannantyne
14   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:11:07

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OR!!! (news alert) One chappy approached Louis Saha on the aeroplane just the other day, thinking that he was Mario Ballotelli (oh dear). Anyways, this man then proceeded to give old Louis an earful on how footballers are all arrogant and over paid - and this anonymous man may have a point.

But that's not my argument. I'm thinking - if people can mistake one ageing, injury-prone Louis Saha for one young (still injury-prone, and awkwardly enough allergic to grass) Mario Ballotelli, then maybe our board should play along and SELL Saha for a Bollotelli-esque fee!! (what would that be? Around £30mil???)

A genius plan if you ask me.

You know, I heard Jose Baxter looks remarkably similar to Lionel Messi... (not really, but who gives a shit right?)
Colin Malone
15   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:12:44

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No way should we sell Jags. Forget N'Zogbia.

Let's go looking for that terrier type player that we need in midfield.
Tom Bowers
16   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:17:54

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Jags is a current England international and should not be sold. Why not bundle up Osman, Bily and Anichebe and ship them out?

It's the inconsistent performers we want out, not Jags. We seem to keep these deadbeats season after season, just like we did with the likes of Darracot, Lyons and Telfer when Lee was in charge and we were rubbish then.

We will never be a top Prem team whilst we carry Moyes's deadbeats.

Mark Tanton
17   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:24:20

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Colin, what should we go looking for him with? Do they accept magic beans in football?

We should sell him and not subject him to the "greedy bastard/traitor" nonsense that Lescott got.

Lescott is at a club on the verge of winning things and, in a short career, that's important. Fair play to him.
Chris Bannantyne
18   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:26:46

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If Jags got flogged to Arsenal, I wouldn't put shit on him.

Can guarantee I will put a lot of shit on the board for being so fookin pathetic, but Jags is one of those guys that if the boss says "jump" he says "how high?"

If we were to sell him, it would be because (for one reason or another) we want to sell him.

Don't see Jagielka handing in transfer requests and having a sulk like a certain Lescott anyway.
Anthony Hughes
19   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:29:13

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I hope we don't sell Jagielka. We should be trying to keep our solid core of dependable International quality players and add to them. Constant asset stripping of players from the team may alleviate some of our debt temporarily but the effect on the team can only be a negative in terms of quality on the pitch.
Dan McKie
20   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:48:49

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I said about a week ago that we should sell Jags if we can get £15mil and go after Scott Dann & Shane Long with the cash. I don't believe Moyes thinks for one second that he would receive any of the cash though, hence why I'm not sure he would sell anyone. The money would vanish into thin air and show up on next year's accounts as being spent on 'other operating costs'.
Mike Elbey
21   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:59:53

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We will sell at least one of our prized assets, Jagielka, Baines, Fellaini or Rodwell. However, we will do it once all Moyes prime targets have moved elsewhere and the money will go straight to the board (or the bank if you like, there's no real difference).

Kenwright and his fellow board members are an insult to the traditions of this club ? nsno I wish they would just piss off, we have got to be the most frustrating team to support in the Premier League...
Liam Reilly
22   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:03:42

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According to 365, Everton have matched Villa's offer for N'Zogbia:

Would like to see the repayment plan on that one!
Chad Schofield
23   Posted 25/07/2011 at 15:54:39

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I'd hate to see Jags go. As said he's a possible captain and is consistent. Heitinga, while a World Cup finalist, is too much of a liability. I understand what you're saying though, sadly.

There's also Duffy to add to potential cover.
Jalil Noor
24   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:20:30

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Whatever happened to that story where someone had a chat with Ball and he (Ball) was infomed by so and so players that there will be exciting signings coming..

Ian Kearney
25   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:18:45

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I'd say Jags is a bigger liability Chad, he makes a lot of clumsy errors, and when he heads the ball he doesnt have a clue what direction is going in. His good defensive instincts make up for a lot of this, but not enough to turn down £15 mill, especially if we are stuck with Yobo. The one prolonged spell Jonny had at CH, I didn't see him as a liability.
Jalil Noor
26   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:22:11

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McFadden wow... exciting....
Dan McKie
27   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:45:25

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Liam (22), Bill will probably have matched it now that someone else has had a bid accepted. No doubt we will lose out on the players demands and Bill can shift the blame.
David Barks
28   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:47:00

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I would be fine selling Jags, even if it came down to being for 12 million. If we could get N'Zogbia in with that I'm more than happy having Heitinga and Distin in the middle, with the Dier kid on loan and the likes of Neville being able to fill in during emergencies. Actually, almost forgot we didn't sell Yobo, so we'd actually have Distin, Heitinga and Yobo, then Dier and Neville. But I would actually also bring back McFadden. It's a free transfer, adds a bit of depth up front. I know he's not a superstar, but he's capable if injuries hit and to bring off the bench in the later stages to try to get a goal. Wouldn't bother me to be honest.
Mark Tanton
29   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:50:32

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So now the deal is done, we've put a bid in? How disgustingly cynical.

I would love Wigan to accept it and watch Kenwright splutter and go pale.
David Chait
30   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:46:33

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I would be sad to see Jags go.. but I feel he is replaceable with Heitinga... who would add a passing game out of defense. I would then keep Yobo in reserve and possibly even start moving Rodwell back into defense as 2nd reserve..

Preferably I would prefer Arsenal to be coming in for Heitinga with Jags stepping up to take the captaincy... but those offers seem to be lacking....
Steve Ashton
31   Posted 25/07/2011 at 16:53:07

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Agree 100% with the original post. Our problem last season was not a porous defence, we did well against the top clubs, but our inability to break down average defences - we only won 3 out of 10 against the bottom 5!!

What really baffles me, is our inability to secure bridging finance against Sky monies or a star sale. If I was a significant shareholder and was looking to get rid of my investment, I would want the club to seem healthy and forward looking. Ignoring Buffalo Bill, we have one of the richest men in the UK on the board and a very wealthy American, plus the Granchester family as shareholders, surely it is not beyond them to underwrite the purchase of N'Zogbia while we are waiting for funds from other sources. Not asking for investment just bridging finance for a few weeks for God's sake.

The lack of interest the board of directors shows in this club borders on criminal.
Trevor Lynes
32   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:12:14

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No one has mentioned moving Heitinga on to pastures new!! I would rather have an ageing Distin than that loudmouth anytime.

Keep Jags and let both Heitinga and Bily go as they have been really poor buys.

'Dutch' Johnny seems to think he is worth a bigger club and is only a squad member at EFC so lets see how much interest there is in selling him.

When we bought Heitinga and Bily it was unopposed in the transfer market and I have not read of any club showing interest in acquiring either of them.

Keep the players who are worth keeping and that definitely includes Jags and Baines!!

Trevor Mackie
33   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:07:07

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Us getting anyone is a laugh, especially the quality of N'Zogbia.

Bit of a laugh he's gone to Villa for half Downing's fee, even the hairy-palmed RS will squirm at Downing being valued at double.

Clearly the Benitez madness lives on in their transfer policy and these yanks appear as clueless as the previous.

Deluded gobshites the lot of 'em.
Mark Tanton
34   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:22:44

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Trevor, you're embarrassing us all.

Never have the differences between us and them been more pronounced; more significant.

Dalglish has been backed to the hilt by his board, and bought some big players in.

You should be angry at our board, not Liverpool.
Dan Brierley
35   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:26:38

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Mark, Trevor's point is that they are still buying shite, not about how much they are spending!!
Mark Tanton
36   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:29:04

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A) I don't think Carroll, Henderson and Downing are anything but exciting signings.

B) I think we should really keep quiet about Liverpool, and maybe people will forget to compare how utterly woeful we are in comparison.
Matteo Rosingana
37   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:31:25

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Selling one of your best players to a close rival can never be a good thing, and should increase the value of such a player even further. I see Arsenal as one of the teams we should be trying to get level with this year: the fact that they're desperate to reinforce shows that they are worried about slipping further off the top teams. I think they're catchable, but not if we weaken whilst galvanising them at the same time.
Mark Tanton
38   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:36:22

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I wish I saw it the same way you do, Matteo, but Arsenal are the level above us, we're not equals.
Brian Waring
39   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:42:15

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Matteo, after finishing 14pts ahead of us last season, and also with a far superior goal difference, I wouldn't say we are a close rival to Arsenal.
Tom Bowers
40   Posted 25/07/2011 at 17:54:36

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We are what we are. A club with no money and no adventure. A manager who has run out of ideas who has his favourite players that just don't cut it anymore.
We will struggle in a lot of games again this coming season and as I said before the first 10-12 games will see were we are headed but don't expect much more than last season's beginning.
David Thomas
41   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:07:22

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I tell you what i'm not just saying this because its the shite who have bought them but if Moyes had been given the money that Kenny has used and he had spent £75 million alone without wages etc on Carroll, Downing and Henderson i would be seriously questioning his position.

I would rather we spent nothing than spent vast sums of money on average players like those 3.
Trevor Mackie
42   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:08:46

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Mark 33

You must be one of our american cousins to get touchy over that!

I wasn't having a go at yanks per se......(maybe it's 'cos I said "yanks"- ooh - very sorry)

Dan 34

Needless to say "EXACTLY"
Mark Tanton
43   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:22:13

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I just understand why we have to start talking about them.

It makes us look petty and bitter. The reason some people start attacking Liverpool is because they are deflecting their anger and frustration.

Liverpool, it pains me to say, are absolutely streets ahead of us, and on current trends, it's only going to get worse.

I'd rather not talk about them, because it makes me so sad to see one club go one way, and another club go the absolute opposite.
James Stewart
44   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:16:21

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It's Dangerous to scoff at Liverpool. Yes Henderson looks very poor value and Downing is inferior to N'Zogbia.

However Suarez is breathtaking and is probably the best striker in world football right now, along with Forlan. It would not surprise me if he finished with the golden boot.

Carroll has well is a real handful and will cause all teams problems and is the closest thing to Big Dunc in the league.

We had a genuine chance of surpassing Liverpool last season and blew it by weakening our squad while they strengthened. I doubt we will get that back anytime soon.
Richard Dodd
45   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:37:16

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For what it`s worth,even I can`t get enthused by a future of Anichebe and McFadden.Fat better frees going than those two-but as you keep on telling me,what the hell do I know?
Jamie Tulacz
46   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:38:31

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Was wondering about this a while ago. Looking at our squad and think that we could cope with losing the Jags, with Heitinga stepping up and Yobo remaining as 3rd choice, with Duffy and Dier as back-up. And we could definitely do with strengthening our options up front plus getting some pace into the side.

Can't really see it happening though, as Moyes doesn't operate in this way- he likes to keep a settled squad, plus Yobo will be on his way out anyway after falling out with Moyes
Andy Crooks
47   Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:43:43

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Why N'zogbia? He deemed to turn up to save Wigan. I think we should sell Jagielka only because we have cover, Yobbo, Heitinga and ,yes ,Duffy. I'd rather keep Jagielka than waste the money on an overrated self regarding Prima Donna with a well developed sense of entitlement.
Ray Robinson
48   Posted 25/07/2011 at 20:28:13

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Selling Jagielka would be one thing (I wouldn't do it - I'd rather see Fellaini go because he won't be here for much longer anyway) but why do people see Heitinga as a ready made replacement? Yes, he's a World Cup Finalist CB but he would be a liability long term in the Premier League. Just an opinion - I'd rather have Yobo back in the side to be honest despite his lapses.
Chris James
49   Posted 25/07/2011 at 20:45:10

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Sadly it looks like the N'Zogbia deal is a dead duck as several posters have commented. The desperate 'rumour' on Football365 is I suspect fuelled by Evertonian blogs in the first place.

A real shame though because I'd genuinely love to see that sort of player in royal Blue - a tricky winger who can score goals and create out of nothing - could have been a return to the heady days of Kanchelskis!

Much as I hate to join the baying throng as I don't think Bill K is as bad as he's made out, this is developing into one inept transfer window too many for me. I was prepared to accept that wew were going to be shopping for freebies or that we had to sell to buy, but the fact we can apparently do neither when we have a host of international players on offer (Yak, Yobo, Heitinga, Bily and Felliani/Rodwell) is difficult to explain away.

Either we're holding out for too much cash or we're somehow bungling our dealings, either way there should be some accountability and a head on a block.
Joe McMahon
50   Posted 25/07/2011 at 21:15:28

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Tom (16)- Sadly cos no fucker wants them. Could we get more than 500k for Vic, and as for Billy, who would pay more then 2 million?- apart from Moyes that is.
David Thomas
51   Posted 25/07/2011 at 22:13:13

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James 43,

"However Suarez is breathtaking and is probably the best striker in world football right now, along with Forlan. It would not surprise me if he finished with the golden boot."

You have got to be kidding surely? The lad is a good player but best in the world right now not in anyones wildest imaginations. A few goals at the Copa America does not make you a world beater. Do you really think for example he will score more goals than Ronaldo, Messi etc.

James Flynn
52   Posted 25/07/2011 at 22:32:05

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Keep everyone. Let's see what happens this season.

Keep everyone.
Matteo Rosingana
53   Posted 25/07/2011 at 22:31:31

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Hey guys, yes just to clarify, I do consider Arsenal to be superior to us, but the fact that they've lost a player or two, and we hear regular news about others being unsettled, coupled with their season tailing off somewhat gives me reason to believe that they're a team struggling to maintain their level. We can and should be aiming to match them, let's try, that's all I'm saying. Thanks for your replies.
Brendan O'Doherty
54   Posted 25/07/2011 at 23:01:10

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James #43 "Suarez is breathtaking ".

LOL. He's another diver and moaner following the example of his club captain. Forlan is miles better than him, an absolute natural marksman.

No it's not dangerous to scoff at the Shite. It's really funny actually watching them blow £85m on a few average players. Title contenders ? Not a chance, and I doubt if they will even make the CL spots. This is gonna be Blackburn '95 all over again except that these are now outdated tactics.

Us? Sure we'll be grand when Mc Fadden is flying down that wing again and putting in crosses to no-one in particular... ; - )

Tom Bowers
55   Posted 25/07/2011 at 23:59:38

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James (51) yes we have no alternative but to keep everyone for the time being.

We cannot afford to let go our best players. They are our bread and butter and the others... well, as mentioned, nobody wants them except at a knockdown price or on a free.

However, Moyes has to get into the frame of mind of using his fringe players more often and not persist with players who are not playing with 100% effort every week.

Jonathan Tasker
56   Posted 26/07/2011 at 17:26:53

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Given the fact that Everton have absolutely no money seemingly to spend, I was thinking of inventing a handy device.

This is how it would work: if any newspaper or media source anywhere, including Twitter, invented any rubbish about Everton buying a player it would turn the whole article instantly into white space with the headline "made up Everton transfer rubbish". This would save us all a lot of time.

Just for fun as I knew it was trash when it was written, I kept the Guardian from 1 June 2011 where they made up our "possible transfer targets" which were (try not to laugh):

Shane Long
Gervinho [collapses laughing]
Demba Ba [ditto]
Michael Owen
James Milner
Charles N'Zogbia

What a load of total rot.

James Flynn
57   Posted 26/07/2011 at 23:12:26

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Tom (54) - Can't get into how and why Moyes deploys the team. I know more of that than any of us.

I do know (or see anyway) that Moyes sends out a team week in and out designed to attack. We must have the least defensive team in the league.

We lack in finishers. That I do know for sure. We need to put it into the net. We need to finsh our chances. THAT'S the difference between us and those who finish above us.

James Flynn
58   Posted 26/07/2011 at 23:20:06

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That is, "I know more of that than any of us". should read "I DON'T know more of that than any of us".
Anthony Hughes
59   Posted 27/07/2011 at 08:00:22

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"We must have the least defensive team in the league"

Really James? We regularly play 4-5-1 with more often than not two holding players in midfield. That isn't a team designed to attack, that's a team approaching a game with a containment attitude.
James Flynn
60   Posted 28/07/2011 at 02:16:42

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Tom (54) - No argument. The games will get played and we'll see.

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