Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In  |  Sign Up
NewsRumoursReportsVideoTalking PointsArticles
Text Size:  A  A  A
Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Seventh IS the new Top!

 50 Comments: First  |  Last

Bombard the media all you like and you won't solve the problem of getting Everton into the top four ? or finding a new home to play in!

With Man City finding a way round the new financial controls even before they become effective and every one of 'The Sky Super Six' seeming to have easy access to unlimited borrowings, Everton's battle plan must now focus firmly on being the 'Best of the Rest' ? and that will be a hard battle, make no mistake!

With £100k a week becoming a commonplace salary for players no better than some on Everton`s books, the clubs who finished above us are now in an unassailable position. Spurs may seem the most vunerable of the Six, but their financial structure is as sound as a bell whilst our local neighbours ? so recently on the brink of disaster ? now APPEAR to be in good hands. Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs are now on another planet whilst Arsenal, temporarily discomforted, are now controlled by a Yank billionaire.

So, if we accept that there is not a hope in hell that one of the world's richest will suddenly see our club as an attractive plaything ? and nothing less will do the trick ? what can we hope for... with or without Bill Kenwright?

'Seventh is heaven' must be the answer to that poser, I submit. I am exhausted in my defence of Blue Bill and frustrated that he does so little to defend his record himself. However, I still maintain that change for change's sake is ridiculous and merely seeing him 'move over' to silence the baying mob will solve nothing.

Our chairman`s relationship with his manager may be too cosy for many but it has been the key to our more than comfortable record over the past ten seasons. Why seek to disrupt that purely in the hope that some unheard-of chancer will do better?

Only a miracle will see us do better than seventh and in today`s Prem that IS the top for us mere mortals!
Richard Dodd, Freshfield     Posted 10/07/2011 at 09:37:35

back Return to the Mail Bag  :  Add your Comments back


Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

James Boden
1   Posted 10/07/2011 at 14:52:57

Report abuse

How did I know that, as soon as I saw the title of this article, I just knew it would be Richard Dodd.

I do agree to a degree what you are saying as the money is so obscene that we cannot possibly compete with it in terms of winning the league; however, doesn't that contradict your support of Kenwright just abit?

Even though you are entitled to cherish him, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, surely you would recognise that his financial clout is not fit for the modern day purpose?

Ray Robinson
2   Posted 10/07/2011 at 15:29:12

Report abuse

Your first paragraph is a sweeping statement. I agree that a new owner might not change the current status but how do you know for certain that it won't?
James Stewart
3   Posted 10/07/2011 at 15:56:00

Report abuse

When will people wake up to the fact the club is NOT for sale!!! Kenwright will not step down, hence why no buyer will come in.

Kenwright just wants investors and let's be honest ? who in their right mind would give him money with no say in where it goes!?!
David Hallwood
4   Posted 10/07/2011 at 15:55:45

Report abuse

Richard, I wouldn't be so sure about Spurs financial structure being as 'sound as a bell' because apparently Harry's been told that he needs to sell before he buys.

But a good point is the fast approaching £100k pw average wage for Premier League footballers that is simply not sustainable.

Therefore, is the Everton board pathfinders in new, realistic approach to football finances or just completely out of their collective depth ? discuss.
Chris Bannantyne
5   Posted 10/07/2011 at 16:16:28

Report abuse

I just can't get over the obscene amount of money players get paid these days. I mean, obviously good entertainers (actors, musicians etc.) and sportspeople are always going to attract more money than the average Joe, due to the amount of dosh that we plebs pump into those industries, but £100k a week as a rough AVERAGE?

No, this isn't news to me, but every time I really consider that amount of money I am totally bewildered as to how it can ever be justified.

I have seen a few sports buggered up due to salary cap constraints, but surely UEFA or FIFA or whoever the hell is in charge on a global level should set SOME sort of restriction, at say £50,000 a week?

Surely this would benefit the game, with players staying "loyal" to a club (to an extent) and individual leagues being more competative. I mean, if you are a player already earning £50k/week, you wouldn't necessarily be tempted to move to the Chelseas and Man Citys of the world because they couldn't offer you any more money anyway.

This would also allow clubs to put more money into their stadiums, academies, and football at a grass-roots level, which would increase the quality in young talent coming through.

Absolutely ludicrous....
Jay Harris
6   Posted 10/07/2011 at 16:22:32

Report abuse

Doddy I have to disagree totally with you.

Seventh is not the NEW top ? it is 7th.

If you are happy with the 4th most successful club in top flight history coming 7th every year then it is no surprise you support Black Bill.

The model of asset stripping in any industry is very short term and at EFC it has now run to its conclusion. Unless and until we get rid of the cancer that is this board we will never progress.

Do you seriously think Moyes and the existing squad of players is capable of sustaining their motivation in this situation?
Simon Templeman
7   Posted 10/07/2011 at 16:27:22

Report abuse

Sorry everyone but I find myself in agreement with Mr Dodd. The business model of the Premier League is completely unsustainable, no-one on here seems to look at the mathematics any more. I would prefer us to take a back seat and wait for the inevitable.
Andy Codling
8   Posted 10/07/2011 at 16:57:05

Report abuse

Simon, are you talking about the inevitable bubble bursting ? which has been talked about for the last ten years and never happened???

"Seventh is the new top" ? what a fucking twat of a thing to say.

Richard Dodd
9   Posted 10/07/2011 at 17:05:23

Report abuse

So, Andy, we should just be able to magic a higher place, eh? FFS get real!
Sean McKenna
10   Posted 10/07/2011 at 17:09:46

Report abuse

Doddy, I agree about the wages... But our top earner is Mikel Arteta at £75k a week.. Still a long way off £100k. The average salary at Goodison is therefore far far below £100k.

So Richard, should we just give up then? Why even bother turning up for the FA Cup? Tell you what ? why not just sell the lot and become FC of Everton? Fact is, Everton are not far off being a top top side; we don't need billions ? we need our Chairman and Board to do their fucking job right and provide the manager with a chance.

How many players do we really need to become contenders? 4-5? The board missed the boat when we cracked the top 4 a few years ago ? just imagine if we had invested in top players then, we could be regulars on the top 4 by now, but hey that would be too much to ask, wouldn't it, Doddy?

Tony Waring
11   Posted 10/07/2011 at 17:25:38

Report abuse

I'm just dreaming that the whole Murdoch business model goes belly-up. Would'nt that be bloody marvelous ? As things stand we have'nt a cat in hell's chance of competing. I've been a Blue for over 60 years and things have never seemed so dire.
Neil Humphreys
12   Posted 10/07/2011 at 17:30:04

Report abuse

I was about to write a snide joke suggesting that doddy is in fact Bill Kenwright's and Lord Haw-Haw's love child. However, for once, I agree that we are in the mire, we are a spent force, and the chances of us competing on a sustained basis were spunked against the wall in 1989 when football became a business whilst we were being run as a corner shop (and IMO still are).

The part where I disagree is that 7th is acceptable. It fucking well isn't and those who seem happy to roll over and believe the shite spouted by our Board are just holding us back.

I'd love to say I give up and walk away... though, as we all know, we can't. Doesn't mean I have to agree with the status quo or accept it as any less than a total dereliction of duty on the Board's part to take the 4th most successful team in England, mortgage us to the hilt, and treat the fans like ill-educated morons.

We see right through you, Bill. Just piss off will you....

Simon Templeman
13   Posted 10/07/2011 at 17:42:56

Report abuse

Andy Codling, the financial bubble HAS burst, it is only a matter of time before it filters through.
Mike Oates
14   Posted 10/07/2011 at 18:08:47

Report abuse

I too have been an Everton supporter for over 50 years and, like Tony Waring stated above, this is the lowest I've felt in all of that time ? because unfortunately money does matter now. Some recent analysis done for a book entitled "Why England Always Lose" there is a real correlation throughout the European leagues that the clubs paying the highest wages actually win the trophies ? undisputable fact.

The Utds, Real Madrids, Barcelonas, Benficas, Portos, Bayerns win most; the only country breaking the rule is France where Lyon have done best, fundamentally by spending a trophyless 10-15 years and multi-milions on scouting and getting the best African players on low wages to join them, which over the last 7 years or so has finally bourne fruit... but now they are struggling again as their players move on to better wages.

Everton clearly cannot compete with the Top 6 in the UK , and it was interesting to hear Paddy Barclay (journalist) today stating the current situation is totally unsustainable except for the clubs owned by Billionaires ? even Man Utd with their £220k/wk for Rooney, and other Utd players now also wanting a huge rises ? Fernandez will be tripling his wages. You are entering an era where the average club wage for the Top 6 clubs will be £100k, meaning a wage bill for players alone of £120-130M a year. Our total current income is only £80M of which about £40-50M comes from Sky.

We really do need a strong Uefa with its new rules being met or a total collapse of the Murdoch Empire in order to bring sanity to "The Beautiful Game" ... and allowing Everton to compete again.
Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 10/07/2011 at 19:05:37

Report abuse

Yawn... Doddy, you really can't ever have been involved in any competitive sport whatsoever or any role in industry beyond cotton wool council or civil service land. The sort of "well done for taking part" stickers are what I expect my six-year-old to get at Sports Day in school.

Man City were no-marks before they got the stadium and were bought out a good few times in the last few years. Chelsea were nothing better than a cup side before they got bought out and their ground is still a tiny shithole. Accepting second-best isn't good enough.

Voltaire pretty much nailed the current fault with Evertonians: "Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do"; carrying on doing nothing is not the correct course of action.
Kevin Hudson
16   Posted 10/07/2011 at 19:18:20

Report abuse

Because others have more money than us, you suggest we pre-emptively wave the white flag, as it would take a "miracle" to improve on seventh. Didn't we finish just 4 points below 6th last season, despite taking months to get our shit together?

More spineless toss from the most insidious propagandist on ToffeeWeb.
Andrew Gilbert
17   Posted 10/07/2011 at 19:28:28

Report abuse

Here's something to think about.

I have been a season ticket holder for nearly 25 years... at today's prices that totals about £12,500 that I have given to the club for tickets.

How many days' wages does that 25 years worth of season tickets cover of Mikel Arteta's wages? ... TWO!
John Audsley
18   Posted 10/07/2011 at 19:40:29

Report abuse

As always, Richard, you a manage to miss the point, pretty much as David Prentice has.

It's not the fact that 7th under the current regime is pretty good... It's the fact that after 10 years in the Prem under BB we are potless, have god knows how many mortgages on GP, no business plan, have to sell to survive, and haven't spent a penny on decent players for years

It's a fucking awful mess that must make Dean, Labone and Ball turn in their graves.

After so many lies and false dawns (as brilliantly laid out in the letter to the press on the front page), it makes articles like yours prove how incredibly naive and out of touch you are with Everton fans of 2011.

You get called a lot of names because of your mindless Lieut George enthusiasm but Jesus, Richard, face fucking reality.

We ain't going nowhere, as Bob Dylan once wrote, and Roger and Gram sang.
Simon Harris
19   Posted 10/07/2011 at 19:52:46

Report abuse

Oh ok then, I will cease all aspiration and dreams immediately, and fully accept I will never see a cup being held aloft, or Champions League football ever again.

I'm very grateful to you and Bill, and will sit in my seat next season like a Stepford Wife, cheering when the scoreboard tells me, and be jolly happy with my lot.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, hey?
Jon Ferguson
20   Posted 10/07/2011 at 20:22:30

Report abuse

Andrew #17 - that's worrying!

On the bightside, if Saha is on a 'pay as you play' contract, I've covered his wages over the last few seasons!
Trevor Mackie
21   Posted 10/07/2011 at 20:20:30

Report abuse

Doddy, when the EFC shop starts selling blue tin-foil hats, doubtless you'll be first in line, you're off your cake.

At long last, fans are beginning to come together to do something ? what it is none of us yet know ? but we must do SOMETHING we cannot just slip quietly into the abyss.

Doddy, you're very misguided writing this; I suspect you think you're amusing in a contrary way........ you're not.
Tim O'Connell
22   Posted 10/07/2011 at 20:50:25

Report abuse

For you Doddy bashers please, re-read Mikes Oates's post 14 who has it spot-on ? though we can still dream!
Trevor Mackie
23   Posted 10/07/2011 at 21:33:25

Report abuse

Tim, the problem with believing legislature will produce a level playing field is naive in the extreme.

Man City are receiving a shedload of money under the guise of naming rights to swerve the imminent changes ? it really is dream world stuff.
Michael Kenrick
24   Posted 10/07/2011 at 22:06:06

Report abuse

Simon (# 13) ? an intriguing statement, given the continuing trend for ever higher player salaries, ever larger transfer fees, the top clubs with ever more money...

For us simpletons, could you explain exactly when the bubble burst? What the direct evidence is of this? And how exactly it is "filtering through"?
Guy Hastings
25   Posted 10/07/2011 at 22:22:41

Report abuse

Best plan for a Sky money-free existence (or at least a significant drop in income from it) if, as I believe will be the case when Murdoch's BSB takeover plans are quashed and, in a fit of pique, he pulls out of the UK altogether.
Gavin Ramejkis
26   Posted 10/07/2011 at 22:45:50

Report abuse

Guy, Murdoch may be a bastard but he never leaves a chance to earn wedge. Look at the News of the Screws: got his mini-me son to come on telly all gushy saying it's getting shut down ? but they'd already booked the Sun on Sunday web domain... He's not going to run away from a cash cow of sheep.
Dave Smith
27   Posted 10/07/2011 at 23:15:38

Report abuse

Everton are heading into a crisis. Sticking your head into the sand and claiming that being the 'best of the rest' (which has gone from finishing 5th to 7th. What will it be next season? 10th? But as long as we're still over-achieving, right?) is not an option anymore.

If 7th is as good as it will ever get for Everton under Kenwright, then I choose regime change.
Andy McNabb
28   Posted 10/07/2011 at 23:29:24

Report abuse

Well said, Richard. None of us like the current situation but you have spoken a lot of sense.

Sorry lads who love to denegrate this man but, unless we find another league to play in, this is the way it will be. Much as we may love to believe it, this is not of Kenright's making. It is the current state of the Premier League.

Gavin Ramejkis
29   Posted 10/07/2011 at 23:48:20

Report abuse

Andy, a little but serious history lesson, Carter was at the table to agree the reinvention/ruination of football as one of the top teams and, lo and behold, Sky was born.

Roll forward to today and Everton are a miserable effort of a footballing business and Kenwright voted Carter back onto his Board, a Board that has continually fucked up and failed as a business. 12 years of this is Kenshite's making, his only profits have come through selling players, his current lack of ideas means no new players and no ideas of how to generate any income to replace the ones we have when they leave or retire. I'd say that pretty much gives him a legacy no Evertonian should be proud of.

The downward spiral of debt hasn't happened overnight, it's grown under his appaling lack of control over the last decade and more.

Eric Myles
30   Posted 11/07/2011 at 02:46:51

Report abuse

Richard, I see what you're saying and agree to a point, I just find it very sad that a fellow Evertonian is happy to settle for 7th being as good as we can get.

What's Latin for "Nothing but seventh is good enough"? Maybe we can put it on the new shirts?
James Flynn
31   Posted 11/07/2011 at 03:50:39

Report abuse

Not sure what reasoning is behind "unsustainable"? The ongoing state of affairs in the EPL has made it a global titan. That is not changing.

Agree with the points and general tone of your post Richard, excepting the "miracle" part.

Our greatest frustration is lacking the dollar or two for the guy who not only puts it in the net, but also poses a constant threat of scoring for the other manager to worry about. The Top teams have that guy (or two). We don't. And there's the difference.

Kenwright etal are incompetent? I don't need convincing. But Man City has splashed the cash above and beyond what's needed. How many more EPL Trophies have they lifted than us recently?

The lack of funding definitely makes it difficult to move up. Just on squad depth alone. But I see us not just as an also-ran, but a club on the brink of proving the Little Engine That Could, can.

He's brought in many new players these last two seasons. I look forward to this season next.
Andy McNabb
32   Posted 11/07/2011 at 04:34:35

Report abuse

Gavin, I'm not blind to the shortcomings of the Board but post after post on this site calls for the creation of a vaccuum which will only be filled by purveyors of frozen turkeys and Far East businessmen who whiff of money laundering.

I would LOVE us to be competing for the league title again but Rupert Murdoch with his business acumen and astute understanding of the inherent greed in human nature, helped to create an environment where only insane amounts of money can now buy success.

Bill Kenwright is guilty of many things ? but the absurdly unlevel playing field we currently frequent cannot be attributed to him.

It is this blind hatred and unthinking KENWRIGHT OUT mentality that I object to. Sad to say but even if we allow ourselves to fantasise and attain to the same level as an Arsenal: wonderful ground, astute manager, fantastic football etc We would still find our star player wanting to go to pastures new, other key members of the squad either moving on or unsettled and sections of the support calling for the head of the manager because we "haven't won anything" for a few years.

I am all for robust debate but this whole thing goes MUCH deeper than any of the current vitriol thrown in Kenwright's direction.

If we were really serious ? and by 'we' I mean every supporter of every club that doesn't get into the exclusive 'Sky 6' (and that is a heck of a lot of people) ? then we would boycott all Pemier League games and cancel our subscriptions to Sky. That is the ONLY way we will do anything about the current pitiful situation.

Now I'll risk the wrath of my wife and cancel my Sky subscription here in Oz if you agree to stop going to the match.

What do you think?

Painful choice ? hey, everyone? Much easier to just type KENWRIGHT OUT, isn't it?
Tony Cornmell
33   Posted 11/07/2011 at 04:49:24

Report abuse

First off, talking about Fifa salary capping ? it won't work as the clubs would get round it with big superannuations, holiday homes, or big boats so forget that.

The mentality of accepting 7th as a good finish is poor; I want 1st; I want to win every game, I want my team to be the best ? even if they don't, its what I want not second.

Who's to say we won't get off to a good start for a change and maintain it? Who's to know if, this year, one or two youngsters force Moyes to play them and cause older tired legs to push that bit harder? Who's to say we won't have a crippling injury list this year? Who's to say the spin of the gods won't fall our way?

FFS, let's have some positive thoughts and not be down before a ball is kicked. COYB

Ryan Holroyd
34   Posted 11/07/2011 at 07:31:01

Report abuse

Bill Kenwright has NO record as the chairman to defend.

Kings Dock, NTL, Kirkby, Wayne Rooney, 'watch this space'

The bloke is a disaster as Everton chairman.

The sooner he fucks off the quicker my passion and financial support for Everton will return.
David Price
35   Posted 11/07/2011 at 09:23:37

Report abuse

Realism from Doddy and totally spot on.

Cup glory is our only chance, which begs the question about playing our strongest side available for these games and resting players from the league games instead, even if it means a tenth place finish for example.

Salary cap is the answer, any gifts from the club like boats and mansions can be taxable, so that loophole shouldn't exist.

Forget off shore account transfers, that is tax evasion and that's what Porstmouth and Harry were upto, allegedly.

Gavin Ramejkis
36   Posted 11/07/2011 at 09:35:33

Report abuse

Andy, you've failed to see: Everton and Arsenal and Man U started the EPL level pegging, business-wise. BK has been Chairman of the club for 12 years, look at the model over the last 12 years not just Chelski and Man City buyouts, Everton missed the boat a long long long time ago.

The vitriol aimed at BK is justly deserved; in his stewardship he has two failed ground moves including the one which could have potentially put Everton on a level playing field with many of its competitors and seen him finally get his thirty pieces of silver and leave in the Kings Dock and put Everton in a position to compete. Instead we can't even afford a loan player, funds gained from loaning our players out have vanished (probably to our creditors), funds from the sale of two players have vanished (again probably to creditors).

Are you seriously saying that BK has an excuse because despite having 12 years to build the club as a business that Man City have broken what was already broken?

You can't use the current obscene wealth available to Man City and Chelski before them as an excuse to what happened over the best part of the last twelve years.

Mark Stone
37   Posted 11/07/2011 at 10:14:00

Report abuse

"Andy you've failed to see Everton and Arsenal and Man U started the EPL level pegging, business-wise"

Not true. We were already screwed on the pitch and off it. The final season the the old First Division, Man Utd came 2nd in the league and Arsenal came 4th. Evertyon came 12th.

"BK has been Chairman of the club for 12 years, look at the model over the last 12 years: not just Chelski and Man City buyouts, Everton missed the boat a long long long time ago." Very true. A long, long time ago. Longer than 12 years in fact. The growth between 1992-93 and 2002-03 was huge. That is when Everton missed the boat.

"You can't use the current obscene wealth available to Man City and Chelski before them as an excuse to what happened over the best part of the last 12 years."

You can't use what has happened over the best of the last 12 years as an excuse for what happend over the previous 12.
Gavin Ramejkis
38   Posted 11/07/2011 at 11:06:29

Report abuse

Mark, look back at the last few years of the old First Division:

86-87 - Everton 1st, Liverpool 2nd, Spurs 3rd
87-88 - Liverpool 1st, Man Utd 2nd, Forest 3rd
88-89 - Arsenal 1st, Liverpool 2nd, Forest 3rd
89-90 - Liverpool 1st, Villa 2nd, Spurs 3rd
90-91 - Arsenal 1st, Liverpool 2nd, Crystal Palace 3rd
91-92 - Leeds 1st, Man U 2nd, Shef Wed 3rd

In that list alone over just 6 years you'll see 10 different teams in the top 3, and not the same faces every year including Arsenal and Man U, the RS being the most consistent top 3 finishers. An implication that other than the RS we pretty much started equally as capable, BK wasn't chairman at the time it kicked off but Carter, his lifelong board member elect was, BK was on PJ's board before he took over to go beyond his 12 years; even if you want to argue he didn't have any control, he was privvy to what went on.

Everton have never finished in the top 3 of the EPL but other teams did including Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, Newcastle and Forest.
Eugene Ruane
39   Posted 11/07/2011 at 13:24:53

Report abuse

I think Doddy has over the seasons defended the indefensible (ie: defended a proven liar) and I agree with him on practically nothing.

However, right now (with his mate in charge), I can't disagree when he actually says, "Everton's battle plan must now focus firmly on being the 'Best of the Rest'".

Problem with this is, if he's right, we are all forced to ask ourself ? "So... what IS the fucking point?"

I've said before that from 71 to 84, at the start of each season, I was genuinely full of optimism that a title win was possible.

The fact it didn't happen didn't mean it WASN'T possible, it just meant there were others who were better (nb: better, not five times richer!).

Then in 85 we won the title because WE were better ? it WAS possible!

It definitely isn't now though, which is why this will be my third season on the bounce without a season-ticket.

I don't mind us not winning the league, as long as it's a realistic possibility... and I don't mind losing games as long as we give it a good go and try to play attacking football.


Sings: "And now your gonna believe uuuuuuus, we're gonna finish best of the rest!"
Guy Hastings
40   Posted 11/07/2011 at 15:24:07

Report abuse

Gavin ? re my point last about Murdoch selling up News International altogether, Michael Wolff (Murdoch biographer) claims in the never-ending Guardian coverage this pm that that is, in fact, an option being given serious thought by the NewsCorps inner sanctum. Still time to put a fiver on it.
David Thomas
41   Posted 11/07/2011 at 19:37:05

Report abuse


Between 71-84 our average league position was 10th.

Over the last 14 years or average league position has been 10th.

What made you so optimistic that you genuinely were full of optimism that a title win was possible back then, but now, finishing on average in the same position as we did in the earlier period, you don't think it is possible?

Is it just you were a lot more optimistic in your younger days?
Chris Kearns
42   Posted 11/07/2011 at 23:55:28

Report abuse

No, Mr Dodd, you get real. As fans of the 4th most successful club in the country, what would you have us do? Just sit here and accept that seventh is the best we can hope for?

Any true supporter of Everton should not even consider writing anything that supports the notion that seventh is the best we should hope to achieve.

If the fans don't act, nobody will. You feel free to keep buying a season ticket and accepting seventh as the best we can hope for. I still buy my season ticket... but seventh will never, ever be acceptable ? and neither is the way the club is being run. End of!
James Flynn
43   Posted 12/07/2011 at 03:50:07

Report abuse

Tony (33) - Good post. I'm with you.
Eugene Ruane
44   Posted 12/07/2011 at 07:56:44

Report abuse

Dave Thomas (41). I believe your question proves just how meaningless statistics are.

About 20% of what made me optimistic back then probably WAS 'youthful optimism', but it was also the knowledge that if we got things 'right', we had as good a chance as anyone of winning silverware.

And what do I mean by getting things 'right'?

Right manager, right coach, right board, right tactics, right players, right training etc.

Well, we didn't get those things right (or better than anyone else) from 71 to 85...but when we did, WE were champions.

Now however that is impossible, because NOW to get things right (ie: win the title) you need money - bundles of it.

You need to be able to spend big on players and pay them big money.

This is NOT my opinion, this is a proven fact.

And THAT is the difference.
Mark Stone
45   Posted 12/07/2011 at 10:48:49

Report abuse

I don't get your point Gavin. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

When exactly did Everton get left behind? Is it in the last 12 years (as you suggest at #36?). Or was it during the years previous?

For my money it was during the previous, Johnson, years. You say that during those years Kenwright, although not in charge, was certainly privvy to what was going on. I agree ... and unlike any of us sat at our PC's whining on here he actually did something about it, by leading a cosortium to oust Peter Johnson.

The opportunity for huge financial growth, in terms of being one of the sky darlings and all the privileges that come with it at least, had long, long past by 1999. You need to have been sat at the top table between 1992 and 1997

Since Kenwright has been in charge the only way back into that elite group is by getting into huge debt. The only two clubs who have done it are Man City and Chelsea, who have only achieved it by securing huge investment from billlionare sugar daddies.

Another point, for your info, is that Kenwright has only been Everton chairman since 2004 (7 years).

I'm not defending Kenwright - I would love to see him sell up to someone rich - but there are some things to legitimately blame him for, there are other things where you are just clutching at straws.
John Ford
46   Posted 12/07/2011 at 11:22:51

Report abuse

David (#41). That seems a carefully selected set of dates.

Since Moyes's first full season, our average league position is higher than 10th. We compare favourably with everyone (ie, higher) over the past 6/7/8 years with the exception of the rich boys.

Finishing higher than 6th is pretty much an aspiration. Depressing though that is.
David Thomas
47   Posted 12/07/2011 at 12:15:01

Report abuse

John Ford,

Yes i 100% agree with you. I was simply responding to Eugene's post about 71-84. I was just lookiking at that 13/14 year period and the last 13/14 years we have had.


I agree with you that if we are to win the title nowadays and consistently finish in the top few places we are going to have to spend bundles of cash. It is hardly a surprise that since Chelsea and Manchester City were taken over by billionaires that they have gone from "also rans" to genuine title contenders.

That is why i can't understand people saying we don't need a multi millionaire or billionaire in order for us to compete for the league year in year out. Well yes we do.
John Ford
48   Posted 12/07/2011 at 13:03:54

Report abuse


Indeed. Looking at this dispassionately cash translates to higher league position, and increased likelihood of trophies.

Of the poorer clubs we have been closest to breaking the glass ceiling and finishing in the top five. Its harder now than when we achieved 5th a few years ago because Spurs and City have proved they now have financial clout, resulting in higher placings, so increasing the pressure on the blues.
Eugene Ruane
49   Posted 12/07/2011 at 13:22:15

Report abuse

David - (47). My point was simply to answer your question (in 41) regarding the difference between an average of 10th then and an average 10th now (nb: as I implied, a VAST difference).

The average (10th) might be the same over two periods of 14 years, BUT if you make it 17 years, back then (70-87) we have THREE titles (plus a runners-up spot) and our average starts to look a LOT better.

Add three years to this present 'reign' and it'll be no titles and still 10th (or 9th...or 12th, plus guaranteed, NO title).

You say to WIN the league now we need a billionaire/millionaire?

Couldn't agree more.

In fact there are actually ONLY two possibilities of Evertonians EVER seeing us win a title again.

1) We get a billionaire owner prepared to spend his/her billions on players.

2) Support and/or season-ticket sales, at the non-billionaire clubs begins to dwindle, as it occurs to supporters 'What's the fuckin' point playing in a league we have ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of winning?' and as a consequence, Sky/The EPL etc collapses on it's arse.

Either one will do me, but (sadly) neither of those two scenarios look likely in the near future.
Dave Wilson
50   Posted 12/07/2011 at 16:27:27

Report abuse

Could it be that it was all so simple then?

Or has time rewritten every line...

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.

© ToffeeWeb

About these ads

Latest News

Bet on Everton and get a deposit bonus with bet365 at

Recent Articles

About these ads

Talking Points & General Forum

Pinned Links


We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.