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Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Silence is Golden

 65 Comments: First  |  Last

So Tiger Tim isn't concerned about our lack of signings... Capn Fantastic Neville thinks the future is bright... Whilst our manager, dour defensive Dave says... er, nothing actually.

Why is it our senior players and manager fail to voice concerns about the present regime and the lack of finance?

Why after over 9 years of sifting through the bins of other Premier League clubs, does Moyes remain silent? Sure, it's not Moyes's style to bad-mouth his employers in public but he needs to start to say something ? and soon ? as the current situation is pretty dire. Surely by sitting on his hands and saying nothing, he's just accepting his plight and contributing to the decline of Everton FC.

Are you telling me all the senior players are hunky dory about the pile of shite we find ourselves buried under. Why won't someone from inside the squad/coaching staff just speak out and actually SAY SOMETHING?

I for one need to know they are hurting as much as I am at the moment.

Daniel Johnson, Newcastle upon Tyne     Posted 19/07/2011 at 21:29:53

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Alex Kociuba
1   Posted 20/07/2011 at 03:07:48

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It takes some balls to slag off your boss when he's paying you £5,000 per day.
Steven Pendleton
2   Posted 20/07/2011 at 03:28:37

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These older players that have no concern about players coming in are obviously secure in their job and any extra quality that would come in would surely put their game time at risk. Of course they bloody well are okay with no one coming in!!!!

I love Timmy and what he's done for the club, and obviously he's toeing the party line, but any other attacking players would surely put his game time at risk wouldn't it? As for fucking Neville, sick of hearing him crap on about team morale and no players needed.

First season in a long while that I'm not excited about our chances. Hope to be proven wrong by these players that say we don't need anyone else.
James Flynn
3   Posted 20/07/2011 at 03:09:00

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Daniel - I hear you. But what exactly do you expect to hear? Why would players respond as fans do?

I appreciate "Sell to buy" is our recent touchstone. Moyes brought in more good than bad. That era is over. We're going forward with what we have.

Looking at last year's standing to the right, 10 more goals will put us in the money. We have the players who can make up that difference. From the box to over the goal line is our problem.

The season hasn't started. Buck up.
James Flynn
4   Posted 20/07/2011 at 03:45:26

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Alex (10) - Or your boss at your wages.
James Flynn
5   Posted 20/07/2011 at 03:46:16

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Steve (2) - "These older players that have no concern about players coming in are obviously secure in their job and any extra quality that would come in would surely put their game time at risk. Of course they bloody well are okay with no one coming in!!!!"

Dude!! I've seen you in here before and you've never once let the rest of us know you have such access to the players' thoughts and feelings about how they make their living.

Please give us more of this inside info.
Steve Carter
6   Posted 20/07/2011 at 03:48:47

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I'm with you, James - whilst the Kenwright/Board/finances concerns may have some legitimacy, perhaps a glass half full approach could be taken on this one. What would people prefer going into the start of the season: Senior players expressing optimism or bitching and moaning like the rest of us? And Steven (2), yeah Neville may tend to be overly positive at times, but bit cynical about Tim Cahill, I thought.
Steven Pendleton
7   Posted 20/07/2011 at 04:13:55

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Does it really take any inside info to draw this conclusion James? How the hell can they be satisfied with the size of the squad, given the length of the season, and belt out no need for reinforcements, team morale, et al. It stinks of complacency and towing the party line.

If you think anything different to this conclusion, let us know of your thoughts please.
Chris Bannantyne
8   Posted 20/07/2011 at 05:07:38

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Yeah the players are towing the party line. But as annoying as it can be, I'm ok with that.

Generally speaking I'd rather hear Tim and Nev big up the club and everyone in it like their shit don't stink, as opposed to constantly bitching and holding the club to ransom like some of the pre-madonna 'superstars' at other clubs, every time they think "the club isn't matching their ambition".

But yeah, I do find this silence from the manager really frustrating. It WOULD be good if someone at the club spoke out about their frustrations.
James Flynn
9   Posted 20/07/2011 at 05:09:29

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Steven (7) - I haven't a single argument against we are where we are financially. What control do I have over that?

I'm saying it's July, we all know we have good players, a good manager, and very little has to change up top to jump up into the Champions League. Let's say a dozen more goals. What team above us dramatically improved its squad?

I refuse to be negative before the season's started. Towards what end? As your reading this, we're tied for 1st place. What's the point of rooting for my team (a good one, mind), if I concede the season before it starts.

Steven Pendleton
10   Posted 20/07/2011 at 05:27:46

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Fair enough on your self professed positivity front there James, but on the reality front, where are those 12 goals coming from to get us in the Champions League spot with our current squad?

Dave Wilson
11   Posted 20/07/2011 at 05:09:42

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Is right Daniel lad.

When waters seeping into your boat, it`s always a good idea to attack the the guys with the buckets trying to bail it out.

How dare these people adopt a positive outlook when we all know its the whining lets- feel-sorry- for- ourselves mentality thats going to guide us to a shiny a new future.

Breaking news Daniel . . .the club is dying . . .Kenwrights gone awol . . . millions if pounds are inexplicably disappearing from the club coffers . . fans on the brink of mutiny.

If these guys you are attacking dont stay positive for the foreseeable, we may not have a club to salvage.
Anthony Hughes
12   Posted 20/07/2011 at 07:52:41

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Appreciate your optimism James. You say we only need 10 or 12 goals to break into the top slots. That is on the assumption that the teams above us also stand still and don't improve. They are in a better position than us to improve simply by the fact that they can buy players. If other sides are aren't doing too well come Christmas then they can go out and improve the squad in th January transfer window. We don't have that luxury.
Andrew Fair
13   Posted 20/07/2011 at 08:21:50

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Or maybe they don't negatively comment because they are PROFESSIONALS and I for one would much rather prefer the lads to support what they have got and get on with it, rather than moan like Terry at the World Cup last year. Remember they are in amongst the squad ? maybe they feel that this squad is strong enough to challenge for 4th and with the youngsters coming through they will push for places. Neville would be slagged off on here if he came out saying we need new recruits.
Richard Dodd
14   Posted 20/07/2011 at 08:49:01

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I don`t think any of our players regard their colleagues as `a pile of shit`.Personally,I haven`t noticed too many players moving around who would add much to our squad.Of course,like most clubs,we could do with a`20 goals a season` man but that`s just a pipedream.Otherwise,I feel just a bit more `cover` is required.
David Duffy
15   Posted 20/07/2011 at 08:54:10

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Guys... Spend more time with you wife, girlfriend, kids...
Danny Lizars
16   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:35:42

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Does anybody think that Phil and Tim are asked to spout off this shite year after year?? Surely they can see what's going on at the club and if they love the club as much as they say they do, they would speak out??

The only signing we are likely to make is somebody to work in the catering department who can't serve a decent pint of Chang at half-time...
Dan McKie
17   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:43:02

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Hang on....didn't Fellaini speak out only a few weeks back about how we needed players and how we had become a 'middle' club? He got slated like nobodies business and had everyone shouting for him to go. Cant have it both ways!
Nelly Verdonghan
18   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:28:27

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Moyes will continue to say nothing as he has a ready made excuse when his dour defensive SHITE tactics and style of play (HOOOFFFF !!) fail to win a trophy yet again (for the 10th successive season)...He'll just blame it on lack off investment(which he'll say IS NOT the fault of the Board of Directors) not his piss poor 5-4-1 formations (especially at home) against the likes of Stoke,Norwich,QPR,Swansea,Wigan et al.

Regardless of the finanacial situation which I agree is embarrassing (thanks to KENWRONG & his cronies) the current squad should, could and probably WOULD win more games if the manager employed the correct tactics.

...People say he's got no cash but this is the same manager who not so long a go spent £10 mil on Bily when we are crying out for width and more importantly PACE but season after season Moyes FAILS to address the problem.

The current financial situation is dire but the managers tactics are equally as bad...
Eugene Ruane
19   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:30:13

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David 'I'm not part of the herd' Duffy (14), in the time it took you to read all the above posts, then write and post to TW, you could have kissed your wife, made her a sandwich and a cup of tea and then told her how much you loved her. What kind of a fucking man ARE you!?
Eugene Ruane
20   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:46:46

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Nelly (16) - Agree.
Richard Parker
21   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:47:53

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The one thing we do seem to have going for us at the moment is a tightly-knit squad. They clearly know that we need investment, but if they were doing a Nasri, or a Robinho, we'd be screaming for them to fuck off right now.

We do have a squad capable of qualifying for the CL, but it's unlikely to happen. Some of our best players will get injured and we won't be able to replace them, we'll miss the fact that we don't have a quality striker who will play 40 games, we won't have decent options on the bench to change a game where we're struggling and with the small squad we have we can't keep momentum up for a whole season....

Yes, we need more players and better players. But I'd much rather Tim said "we're good enough and we're going to have a right fucking go from the off" than he said "well, Becks isn't really Premiership quality, we don't have any wingers, we're a bit light on cover in general and if Bainesy get's crocked then we're right in the shit."
Richard Parker
22   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:02:04

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Can't really agree with Nelly's opinion on Moyes' tactics.

It's fair comment that he gets it wrong sometimes, but with the players he has, my personal opinion is that he's doing pretty well and needs to get the lads playing for a whole season. Yes we need quick wingers, agreed and Bily wasn't a wise investment.

But if our players were really that good, bigger clubs would be making offers for them. We only have 3 or 4 players that would make the 1st XI of the clubs ahead of us - Bainsey, Jags, Fella and maybe Arteta at a push.....

Agreed Moyes could do better, but I would be very concerned if he was to leave.
Dave Wilson
23   Posted 20/07/2011 at 09:56:04

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have you even seen Everton in the past 4 seasons ? ? ? Stubbsy and Weir dont play anymore mate,

While everyone else is complaining about our build ups being too slow, our incessant sideways passing and our toothless going nowhere football. You are seeing hoofball ?

not sure who you are watching, but it sure isnt Everton.

We have one man who consistantly hoofs it despite the managers repeated instructions. but try suggesting we sell him and listen to the howls of protest.

Chris Keightley
24   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:08:42

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Given the squad size and the likelihood of injuries, we simply have to get players in somehow!! Loan, free ? however they decide to do it, as the current team will not see out the season, and if we have a slow start, i believe we won't be so lucky. If they're waiting till the last few days before doing their business, then state that!! Don't go quiet because this is not going to go away, and the fans' unrest will escalate.
Dan McKie
25   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:22:06

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If anything we are often guilty of over playing it. Im usually screaming from the stands 'will somebody just f**king shoot'!!
Eugene Ruane
26   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:31:11

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Dave Wilson (21) - Let me get this straight, you are saying Everton HAVEN'T played any hoof-ball in the last four seasons?

Talk about should have gone to fucking Specsavers.

(by the way hoof-ball IS 'toothless going nowhere football')

Nelly Verdonghan
27   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:23:27

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Dave #21...I think it's you that hasn't been watching Everton for the past 4 seasons whilst I have been following them home and away...if you think Moyes tactics are acceptable then so be it....I prefer football played in a different style

You say ONE player (I assume you mean Jagielka) hoofs the ball DESPITE the manager's REPEATED instructions...tell me are you in some way connected to the manager ? you must be to be able to tell me what his REPEATED INSTRUCTIONS to the players are....I suppose he REPEATEDLY tells the goalkeeper NOT to aimlessly HOOF the ball up field out of his hands everytime he gets it then.....I suppose he REPEATEDLY tells Neville NOT to clip the same aimless ball into no man's land time time again or REPEATEDLY tells Hibbert NOT to knock the ball long and OUT OF PLAY whenever he is in possession...need I go on..the amount of time we surrender possession especially when not under pressure is criminal....that is due primarily to the manger's tactics.

On the very rare occassion we have opted to play to feet, keep the ball and get behind opposition defences we have played them of the park (Man SHITTY last season obviously springs to mind !!) so it's not as if we're not capable but the majority of times Moyes plays percentage football and if you have any idea about how the game is played that is UNDENYABLE.
David Duffy
28   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:41:49

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I take your remarks as jokes so i can have better mood when i see my family.

Whatever will be will be... LOL!
Nelly Verdonghan
29   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:45:15

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if the player(s) ignore his REPEATED INSTRUCTIONS then why are they still in the team...??
Kirk McArdle
30   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:53:32

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It doesn't take a genius to work out that DM will keep his mouth shut with only a couple of years left on his contract. If he had had enough of the situation and didn't intend on staying that much longer then he would of kicked off by now.

Capt Pip wants a coaching role and Tiny Tim will be after some sort of ambassadorial role after he calls it a day.

The players coming into (or in some case already there) the twilight of their playing careers will only want to prolong some sort of good wage after they quit.

Pip "Tim, come on. Have a go about no new players"
Tim "Fuck you Pip. You are the club Captain. You say something"
Pip "Can't Tim. Gonna have to have some sort of cash coming in so I can outdo Gary and the teletubbie mansion"
Dave "Fuckin keep it down you two sons. Bill Can here everything"
Tim & Pip "Bill who? Oh you mean that bloke who posts as Richard Dodd. Sorry gaffer"
Mick MacManus
31   Posted 20/07/2011 at 10:59:57

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Moyes deosnt need to say anything in public, I'm sure he does so in private though and the first you'd hear of it was if he had already decided to walk away due to lack of finances.

He knows it will achieve little if he says it in public. The first consequence would be that it would be much harder to attract younger talented players etc and keep the current squad together if he confirmed EFC was a sinking ship in public.

As for EFC commenting in public on we are trying to sign X, Y and Z, there is no use to it either, bar satisfying fans curiousity. It only serves to maker it harder to sign players (sign what players you may add!).
Dick Fearon
32   Posted 20/07/2011 at 11:18:45

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All the lads need to do is start the way we ended last season.
Should a few of our youngsters live up to their hype and Moyes be more attack minded against lesser sides then we are in the running for a top 6 place.
Norman Merrill
33   Posted 20/07/2011 at 12:11:04

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Maybe, it gives us some insight into the ambition of the club?
We were led to believe that there would be NO last minute signiings this close season, things would be sorted early enough for the manager to sort his squad out.
Well we are about to enter the final weeks of the transfer system, and as usual Zilch.
But why should we be surprised?
Dave Brooks
34   Posted 20/07/2011 at 12:41:05

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Dan (@15) -
Off topic from me, but Fellaini said Everton were "que une équipe du subtop". The best English translation I've heard of the term is 'brink club'. Meaning a club on the brink of something (long conversations with the admins of French-speaking Milan supporters' sites and trawling other Everton forums go me that).

Sorry - positive. On the brink of something positive.

I thought he got slated because some posters wanted to slate him. Because you can't slate him for what he said if you can't be arsed to understand him. Right?

Dave Wilson
35   Posted 20/07/2011 at 11:29:23

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Home and away ? then how come you dont know how we play ?
Why are you whining about a direct style "hoofball" when everyone else is pissed of by the slowness of our build up and sideways passing ?

And just because I think you are talking rubbish about hoofball, does not mean I`m happy about our style of play - another assumption you`ve got wrong.

I think you`ll find our keeper very rarely kicks it out of his hands - People who regularly watch Everton know that.
I also think you`ll also find that its either Hibbert OR Neville playing right back - another thing most people who watch Everton can tell you - we`ve got a young irish guy who`s main attribute is to make himself available, thus rendering incessant hoofs from our right backs a thing of the past.

Try sitting in the family enclosure, you`ll hear Moyes REPEATEDLY scream at Jagielka to "shorten it up" and you can do it without being "connected to the manager"

Why is Jagielka still in the team ?
Well it not for his footballing skills, its because many people, including Moyes, think he`s a top class defender - THAT by the way, is something else people who regularly watch everton will be able to tell you
Dave Wilson
36   Posted 20/07/2011 at 11:29:23

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Duplicate Removed
Steve Guy
37   Posted 20/07/2011 at 12:36:24

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They've been told to "big up" the squad and our chances. Pip as usual doing his talking off the pitch as he has trouble when on it. It wasn't that many weeks ago, as last season ended, when Tim Howard for one was talking about needeing fresh players and Moyes was talking about getting business done early. All now clearly bollocks designed to boost ticket sales; they may have even believed it, but if they did they clearly haven't looked at, that would have curbed their enthusiasm.

There may be some last minute deals if we do sell an asset and there may be some loans (especially if you heard the logic for why they are increasingly popular on C4's Dispatches programme on Monday night), but otherwise we are pretty much skint. Players like Cahill and Neville are in denial if they think otherwise. Sack the Board !.......if only we could.
Rob Murphy
38   Posted 20/07/2011 at 12:53:11

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My head hurts after reading this thread...
Andy Peers
39   Posted 20/07/2011 at 13:01:12

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Steve @ 34, that was what I was asking on this site a few weeks ago about Moyes getting transfers in early to train with the squad etc. It just shows how much the board trip themselves up with lies and that is why people have a problem with them. At the end of last season I think it was Neville that said we would be bringing in some quality signings this summer, well were are they?
Nick Wall
40   Posted 20/07/2011 at 13:08:06

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The last thing we need to hear is players whining about lack of signings. Unhappy players equals bad headlines equals an unsettled team whose heads aren't in the right place.

Fact is, if players are really unhappy with the setup at Everton, sooner or later they'll vote with their feet and engineer a move away. Unless Everton show more ambition in the transfer market I fear Fellaini's unlikely to sign a new contract. Most players though seem genuinely positive and I take that as a good sign.

As for Moyes, what I see is a man who is obviously frustrated and disappointed at the lack of resources available to him, but also a man who is determined to work with what he has, instill pride in the players, and steer Everton to new glories.
Simon Harris
41   Posted 20/07/2011 at 13:07:15

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Mine too Rob, especially, only now, finding out that Stubbsy and Davie Weir don't play for us anymore! WTF? - Dave, you could have broken the news a little earlier :-)

p.s. Stubbsy was not a 'hoofer' - he merely needed a pacey winger to meet his 50 yard Koeman-esque passes...
Nelly Verdonghan
42   Posted 20/07/2011 at 16:05:30

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Dave Wilson....'our gaolie VERY RARELY kicks it out of his the videos mate and I think thay YOU will find he kicks it from his hands about 90% of the time minimum....When do we EVER give the ball to our defenders and build play up from the back...??

A young Irish man who makes himself available rendering incessant hoofs from the right back a thing of the past...!?!?! Which team are you watching...sideways passing !?!?!
You'll be telling me Neville & Hibbert DON'T continually give the ball away next....what position they play in has nohing to do with it whatsoever.

So your not disagreeing that the manager's tactics are poor...(in your words slow build up & sideways passing) just that he doesn't play obvious case of potatoes-patatas, tomatos/tomatoes I think...
Which ever way you want to look at it....Moyes' tactics are SHITE !!
Nelly Verdonghan
43   Posted 20/07/2011 at 16:05:30

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Duplicate Removed
Ste Traverse
44   Posted 20/07/2011 at 17:06:09

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We've had Neville, Cahill and Bily talking about us not needing any new players of late. This smacks of spin put into their mouths from above. The club are having yet another go at trying to manipulate the fans.

We have possibly the smallest squad in the Premier League, so it's beyond me how anyone can say we don't need more acquisitions.
Tony J Williams
45   Posted 20/07/2011 at 16:37:54

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Nelly, Dave doesn't need to say it, I will. Hibbert doesn't always give the ball away.
Gavin Ramejkis
46   Posted 20/07/2011 at 18:55:26

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Saha tweeted at the end of the season that he was looking forward to playing with some new faces, maybe he didn't get Kenshite's memo?
Tony J Williams
47   Posted 20/07/2011 at 19:39:47

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Nah Gavin, he meant that old man Yak was getting a facelift
Dave Wilson
48   Posted 20/07/2011 at 18:53:37

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your in a tiny minority, your complaint is a few years out of date, when the hole of Evertonia is moaning about slow deliberate build ups which are compounded by an insistance to play the sideways pass . . you seem to be seeing Hoofball.
If you dont think the position a guy plays in has anything to do with whether he hoofs it or not, then footys not for you, Just asked yourself how many midfielders, wingers or forwards have you ever seen putting their foot through the ball from one end to another in true unceromonious Jagielks fashion ?

Baines and Distin play football from the back, are you claiming they ignore Moyes`s instructions to mindlessly batter it too ?

Sorry, you gave yourself away with the potatoes -patatas statement.

Sideways, over elaborate, crash bang whallop Hoofball, you dont really care what the complaint is, just as long as there is one

It really is that sort of criticism that makes Moyes as safe as houses you know.

Andy Crooks
49   Posted 20/07/2011 at 19:45:07

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Dave Wilson, going back to the original point of this thread I agree with you absolutely.If the players were to start rebelling it would mean relegation. However shite and annoying it sounds I'd rather hear "all is well" than" I want out of here",
Disintegration of morale and the possible on field disaster that could follow might well lead to the end of this regime. However, it is too high risk for me to stomach. Also, I agree with you about Jagielka, If we were offered £15 million for him, it was, in my view, negligence to turn it down.
Here's where I think you are wrong, if Jagielka is ignoring or incapapable of playing to Moyes's instructions, why is he not dropped? We have alternatives.
Finally, I accept that you have seen many more games than me, but I would have to state that under David Moyes I have witnessed some of the most appalling negative hoofballing dross in my life.
Andy Crooks
50   Posted 20/07/2011 at 20:03:39

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I should have added that I have also seen football, at times, that is as good as it gets. Why can't it be like this even a little bit more often?
Dave Wilson
51   Posted 20/07/2011 at 20:53:29

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Hoofball Andy ?

How long ago ? and no counting Jagielka.
Dave Wilson
52   Posted 20/07/2011 at 21:11:57

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Eugene #26

specsavers ? read my post lad then go and book yourself an appointment
James Flynn
53   Posted 21/07/2011 at 01:54:09

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Ste (44) - C'mon man. " This smacks of spin put into their mouths from above". Conspiracy theories?
James Flynn
54   Posted 21/07/2011 at 02:11:38

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Dave (35/36) - Well-said and worth saying twice.
James Flynn
55   Posted 21/07/2011 at 02:38:58

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Dick (32) - Simple as.
James Flynn
56   Posted 21/07/2011 at 02:40:19

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Steve (10) - Sorry brother. Missed your post. Couiple here, couple there, couple or three over there.

I'm of the opinion that very little has to change for us to jump up into the money. We DO have good players. Why not the difference is made up this season?
Karl Meighan
57   Posted 21/07/2011 at 07:56:13

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With regards to hoofball and Jageilka do some of you want to see him taking men on in the six yard box? Jageilka needs to work on his distribution but he certainly doesn't need to be getting caught in two minds and giving silly goals away. There is always going to be times as a defender were safety comes first. How many centrebacks in the Premier League have the vision of Platini or Sheedy? Its obvious Jageilka isn't a good passer of the ball so its equally obvious that the deep lying defensive midfielder should take the ball off him a lot more than happens. It just so happens that the midfielder who plays this role is regarded by many here as are best player, what i dont want to see which i saw for a lot of last season is Arteta dropping back to pick the ball up off are centrebacks.

I agree with the point which most are making that the team is screaming out for pace, the way we play threw midfield at the moment is so easy for any well organised team to snuff us out. The lack of a plan B or a player capable of turning these hoofballs into something is a worry. Thats hoofballs that come from being under pressure.

By the way i expect Senior players to come out with the same shite season after season, i suppose there just trying to build the feel good factor and try to get confidence into the squad, as already mentioned better that than destroying the dressing room and starting the in fighting that leads only one way and thats down.
Eugene Ruane
58   Posted 21/07/2011 at 08:16:39

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Dave Wilson (52).

What a great response. I suggest you go to Specsavers and you tell me to Specsavers.

Who said the art of the comeback is dead?

You then tell me "read my post".

A rather curious thing to request, given I had responded to it, therefore MUST have read it.

(see how that works?)

To be clear, I DID read your post 'lad' - and as I suggested with my response, felt it was nonsense, devoid of insight and reflected what I consider to be an (your) incredibly poor reading of how Everton have played over the past four years.

It actually appeared to be a response to events that took place inside your head rather than what has ACTUALLY gone on.

Examples of what has taken place ONLY inside your head?

Howard never fucking leathers the ball up the park.

Hibbert never aimlessly hoofs the ball to an invisible man standing by the corner flag.

Neville never looks up and twats the fucking thing to the opposition centre-half

(will get to Jags in a second)

The reality is that Everton have played PLENTY of 'hoof' in the past four years and to dispute this, imo, just dumb.

Oh and even dumber is your use of a tactic most famously used by The People's Front Of Judea.

"Yeah ok but FORGETTING Jagileka...WHEN have Everton hoofed.."
Dave Wilson
59   Posted 21/07/2011 at 09:10:49

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The art of comeback dead ? Perish the thought.

This may come as a surprise to you BUT My response to you`re post wasnt actually intended to be witty, when I suggested you to read my post, It was only because I felt you`d failed so miserably to understand it the first time

Let me try to put this in a way even you cant twist or misconstrue - tall order but I`m gonna give it a whirl anyway.

Nelly claimed Hoofball was Moyes`s style of play, tactics - agreed ?
I dispute this and pointed out that I have actually heard him shout at Jagielka to "shorten it up" - feel free to read back and check.

if you believe that by trying to point out the difference between Jagielka`s seemingly irrepressable urge to put his foot through the ball and and the instructions Moyes issues to his players was an attempt to employ what you refer to as "the peoples front of judea tactic" then I`ll waste no further time trying to explain it to you.

I didnt say we havent played hoofball for four years, I asked Nelly has he not been for four years, I know we will never rid ourselves of this curse as long as Jagielka plays. but I also know that over the past few years Moyes has made a concerted effort to cut it out - Hibberts stopped, Baines and Distin have been brought in .
IMO if Moyes removed the culprit we would be playing less long ball than any other team in the Prem. unfortunately theres an obvious price to pay for that.

Might I suggest you ask yourself why thousands poor out of GP moaning about slow laborious build ups AND tedious sideways passing while you - and of course Nelly - are still witnessing the crash bang whallop stuff.

Anyway Eugene being somebody who visits this site almost daily I know it`s usually round about this stage of the debate that you clap your hands and declare yourself the winner because the fella you`re debating with cant spell, has let a typo slip, or has missed an apostrophe somewhere . . so I`ll give me spellchecker a miss and congratulate you in advance.

Well done
Eugene Ruane
60   Posted 21/07/2011 at 10:59:45

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Dave Wilson (59).

Well thanks for the congratulations, but to be fair, you did most of the work for me.

Ffs, you really ARE making it up as you go along and I'll attempt to prove it using YOUR words.

First, a tip - rather than with everything you post, trying make out that your opinion is shared by the entire planet (nb: WITHOUT ANY FUCKING SUBSTANTIATION!) just give YOUR opinion or any FACTS and then we can agree or disagree.

You have (nb: ON THIS ONE THREAD ALONE!) given us..

23 - "While EVERYONE else is complaining about our build ups being to slow..".

35 - "When EVERYONE else is pissed off by the slowness of our build up.."

48 - "Your in a tiny minority.."

48 - "The hole of Evertonia is moaning about slow deliberate build ups.."

59 - "Might I suggest you ask yourself why thousands poor out of GP moaning about slow laborious build ups AND tedious sideways passing while you - and of course Nelly - are still witnessing the crash bang whallop stuff".

See what I mean?

Seriously, get a grip.

Leaving Goodison (or any Everton game) after a poor performance, I have heard ALL kinds of moans.

Bad finishing, laziness, too much wellie (hoof), bad refs, overdoing it (sideways) Moyes, substitutions, etc etc.

Trying to make out that this 'sideways' thing is the REAL problem, while 'hoofing it' is some minor problem AND (most important for you) EVERYONE apart from two idiots agrees, is you making you look fucking stupid

(though not as much as your spelling of 'whole' does).

But tell you what, this post now has 60 replies.

You read back and show me 2 (not 27 - JUST 2!!) posts on this thread that ACTUALLY state anything like "Yeah the REAL problem is like Dave says, it's all slow and sideways" and we'll call YOU the winner.


Dave Wilson
61   Posted 21/07/2011 at 12:43:54

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The thread is not about hoofball.

Nelly introduced that argument.

So seeing as you were the only one to agree and I was the only one to disagree, out of the 60 posts you refer to, there wont be many expressing an opinion one way or the other.

Nelly later posted #43 that it was a case of potato patata, the inference being the accuracy of the criticism didnt matter, it only mattered that there was a criticism - fair enough.Colours to the mast and all that . .

Anyway Eugene

Its been a blast and if it makes you feel better, I`ll argue no longer with you view that we play a kind of direct but slow and laborious crash bang wallop game and not for one minute will I think what you think I`ll be thinking . . .How that fella ?

have a look at posts 25 and 54.
Eugene Ruane
62   Posted 21/07/2011 at 14:03:51

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Dave what fucked me off (apart obviously from your use of 'mate', 'lad' and fucking 'fella') was your insistence, based on nothing but your desire to appear right, that 'everyone' (as you persistently claimed) agreed with you.

(you can dispute this all you want but they're YOUR words and above for all to see)

Opinions are just opinions and I'm happy to debate mine with/against yours (or anybody else's) without any animosity.

However when I see what is clearly an attempt to dress up opinion as fact, I won't pull punches.


Congratulations on 25 and 54, just a shame 2 out of 60 isn't technically 'everyone'.
Dave Wilson
63   Posted 21/07/2011 at 14:27:11

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You are a skilled writer, out of my league anyway and you should know that a strategically placed "mate" "fella" or "lad" will trump insults like "fucking stupid" all day long.

EVERYBODY in the world knows a little exageration enhances a point and 2-60 may not mean "everyone" but it represennts the OVERWHELMING majority of the people who expressed an opinion.

Actually 62 was a fair cop. I shall try to avoid speaking on behalf of the entire UK in future.
James Flynn
64   Posted 22/07/2011 at 05:24:57

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Dave (63) - Not for nothing, but where exactly do you see a "skilled writer" in Eugene's post at (62)? Do I need my "Sarcasm" font on? Seems so, but I'm asking to be sure.

Fun reading back and forth, by the way.
Ray Said
65   Posted 26/07/2011 at 17:28:45

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Is this the most desperate Everton fan of all?

Surely we can't be that desperate?

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