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Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

If you love this club.....

 51 Comments: First  |  Last

I watched hundreds of fellow Evertonians protesting on Saturday with mixed feelings. Naturally, they have every right to vent their feelings and point the finger at whoever they feel is to blame for Everton?s frustrating inertia.

Blame Bill Kenwright for the lack of investment or a failure to sell to one of the many convenient Russian oligarchs or Middle Eastern tyrants lining up on Goodison Road. Fine.

Blame David Moyes for failing to buy a half-decent striker despite having spent tens of millions of pounds over a long period on semi-talented disappointments like Yakubu and so many others - or for his dull tactics and frustrating insistence on making players who should be on the field watch from the sidelines until they?re begging to play. Fine.

I choose the latter but I respect the former view. But there is a saying: when you point one finger, three fingers point back at you. How many Evertonians out there with strongly held, sincere opinions about our financial situation don?t actually go to games every week, don?t buy stuff from the club store, don?t contribute at all to a club whose direst need is, after all, funds?

Every matchday you find the same question on the ToffeeWeb Live Forum thread and many other threads ? ?Er... any links lads?? There are always half a dozen answers as Everton fans who decry Everton?s lack of finances with one breath, look for ways to watch the match for free with another.

I?m not blameless. I?ve done it. I?ve watched matches in Arabic on and so on. But it?s hypocrisy to wonder where the money is when you?re (metaphorically) shoplifting from the store.

And yes, it?s a drop in the bucket, for sure. But fans need to contribute our money. Buy stuff; go to every home game ? including League Cup games ? that?s support.

The fact is that one of the reasons Everton is not an attractive proposition to an investor is that the city?s population will decline 2% over the next several years while the rest of the country?s population will increase 11%.

Our elderly population is increasing even as our youthful population is decreasing. We have failed to create a global brand. Potential buyers look at Everton and see a club whose revenue stream is likely to decline, is loaded with debt, whose fans are loyal but vociferously critical and activist ? and we think we own the club.

Everton has complex business problems which cannot be sorted out with slogans like ?Let Go, If You Love this Club.?
Peter Fearon, Liverpool     Posted 12/09/2011 at 22:21:41

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Eric Myles
1   Posted 13/09/2011 at 05:45:17

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Maybe many fans like me live overseas and need the website links because they cannot view he match on local telly. For example, when I lived in Korea only Manchester United, Tottenham and Bolton games were shown on local telly because they had Korean players in the team.

Now I live in a country that shows most Everton games over a subscribed satellite channel which I pay for and thereby provide income to the Club through the licensing. But they do not show every Everton game and for those times the interweb is the only way to watch a match.

You're one of the lucky ones that can go to every match home and away to follow the team.

Pat Finegan
2   Posted 13/09/2011 at 05:37:22

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I don't think watching links is stealing. Most games aren't televised here in the USA and everywhere else except England. I am not able to purchase the game so no one is losing money if I watch it via a link.

I don't think the population of Liverpool is relevant. For clubs who are a global brand, (Barca, Sky 4, Real Madrid, Bayern, Inter, etc.) population of the city is irrelevant because once you start to get trophies, your income starts to come from outside your city.

I agree that it is on us as fans to contribute to the team financially but I don't think that is in any way responsible for the situation we are in.

I also think that it is a bit presumptuous to imply that if we don't go to every game or pay to watch it, we don't really love the club. I work a crappy job at McDonald's, get the equivalent of about 5 quid an hour but I buy shirts, scarves, etc. When My birthday or Christmas comes around and someone asks me what I want, I say "eh, just get me something that says either 'Everton' or 'legal tender.'" I don't spend as much as most people but I, like most, spend as much as I can. Shirt sales are down because the economy is down, not because people don't care.

Finally "let go if you love this club" isn't meant as a solution. It's meant to send a message and the message has been heard loud and clear.
Eric Myles
3   Posted 13/09/2011 at 05:50:15

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"We have failed to create a global brand. Potential buyers look at Everton and see a club whose revenue stream is likely to decline, is loaded with debt,"

We the supporters haven't failed and created the problems, the board have, which is why they must do something about it. But they have no intention of doing anything other than asset strip the club.

If you're happy about that then good for you, but there are many who will not stand by and let it happen without a fight.
Jimmy Sorheim
4   Posted 13/09/2011 at 07:24:22

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Agree fully Eric.
Blaiming fans just shows that you dont know enough about what kind of finance football has.
Steve Abraham
5   Posted 13/09/2011 at 08:21:07

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I think Peter has a point. I think BK mentioned it recently too when he said something like "...only Newcastle fans buy shirts".

The merchendising side of things could help our finance. How much money does Man Utd make of the back of it? Millions.

He is right about actually going the games as well. I know some people struggle to afford to attend for different reasons like place of residence or just plain lack of cash, but there will be many more who just can't be bothered. Maybe these are the supporters Peter in the OP is referring to.

I am to blame as much as anyone. I tend to pick and choose my games. I went to the Villa game but probably won't go to the Wigan one. I know most of our income comes from Sky but we could all help to get more money in the club by attendance and buying club stuff.

I'm off to buy a mug from the club shop.

Gavin Ramejkis
6   Posted 13/09/2011 at 08:36:20

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Peter, we now have literally thousands of fans who have walked because of the general malaise at the club, are we to blame them for the drop in come or the malaise that gave them a platform to make that choice?

There are fans who refuse to even buy merchandising having given up on games too so another cut in income streams, there are fans like myself that go to the game but refuse to buy anything in it. I'm also against funding Trust Everton IF those funds are to provide a retirement fund for any member of the current board who are already millionaires but who have sewn up their own pockets.
Eric Myles
7   Posted 13/09/2011 at 08:41:25

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Steve, according to a poster a few weeks ago they have no more mugs in the club shop and don't know when they'll have more because they are reduced to operating on a 'cash only' basis.

So even if you want to purchase merchandise which would help out the club you can't because of the financial mismanagement of the board.
Chris Wright
8   Posted 13/09/2011 at 08:41:02

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Sorry I may be wrong but under the contracts for kitbag and sodexo, EFC don't make much from merchandise or food/drink bought at the ground. Isn't the contract with them, that they pick up costs etc and pay a set fee to EFC yearly, but then take most of th profits from the merchandise etc? I think it limits what EFC make from this. I'm not 100% sure this is right, there seems to be a lot of misinformation being passed round from both sides which muddies the waters.
Paul Mackie
9   Posted 13/09/2011 at 08:56:08

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When Kenwright is gone, I'll start going to the game again and buying merch.
Declan O'Shaughnessy
10   Posted 13/09/2011 at 08:48:42

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#Eric at post 3

You say the fans haven't created the problems, the board has. But couldn't it be argued that the fans, by demanding signings the club simply can't afford, have directly contributed to the financial difficulties the club has?

Put simply, Everton haven't been able to compete in the transfer market for a long time now ? it's not a new thing. Realistically, the only way the club has been able to fund anything is by selling players and replacing them with cheaper players (or greater numbers of players to expand the squad). And the best way for a club like Everton to do this is to bring youth through, develop it, and then sell the players to richer clubs. This is, essentially, the Everton model.

But that's not what the fans want to hear, it's not what the fans want from the club and they demand change. Now, if the change isn't realistic, what happens next? That is to say: a billionaire buying Everton and sinking money into us won't actually solve the underlying problem that we don't have a self-sustaining financial model. We're not alone in this, but it is a real problem. Spending craploads on players won't be financially sustainable in the longer term.

I think the original post does touch upon some important points. Namely, that Everton fans who preach "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum" need to actually follow that motto themselves or be open to accusations of hypocrisy. You can't build Everton into a global brand overnight. I doubt you can even do it in 5 years. And it's entirely possible you can't do it all. Everton need slow, organic growth to their turnover, they need to keep costs down, they need to maximise profits. A new stadium is an obvious shortcut to a lot of this, but that doesn't look likely right now.
Chris Wright
11   Posted 13/09/2011 at 09:07:26

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Declan #10. You are correct

'Everton need slow, organic growth to their turnover, they need to keep costs down, they need to maximise profits'

But EFC have needed this for 10 years or more. This is not a new problem, but one which has been ongoing for years and which the board has consistently failed to address. Unfortunately it does not look like they have a plan to improve things going forward either. I don't want a billionaire as such just a proactive board who will try to improve our situation.

The Kings Dock is the biggest mistake which has held this club back, and EFC's failure to move there is down to one man unfortuantely and that is Kenwright.
David Price
12   Posted 13/09/2011 at 09:10:15

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Me and the lad went to the club shop pre-season for our shirts. The boy was looking at the pencil cases for school, a nice plastic Everton coated one but with the tag hanging from the zip saying Chelsea! Then next to it on the DVD is still the one saying "Great start to the 2006 season" i think it was...

Just a small example of our lack of business standards that seem to escalate further up the scale when running the club.

Ciarán McGlone
13   Posted 13/09/2011 at 09:18:58

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Ludicrous article.

Everton's financial incompetency is our fault for watching foreign channels so we can view 3pm matches on a Saturday.

I've heard some shit arguments in my time, but this one's a beaut.
Dennis Stevens
14   Posted 13/09/2011 at 09:55:31

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I doubt if Goodison Park selling out every match, the shelves being stripped of all merchandise & young Evertonian from outside the area migrating to live in Liverpool would suddenly make our Board competent. Some people have already decided to no longer throw good money after bad & I suspect many more will do likewise until this shower move on.
Kevin Tully
15   Posted 13/09/2011 at 10:10:33

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I think the current board are hoping either the Council, LFC or some obscure European fund will fund a new ground at some point.

Merchandising is the last thing on their To Do list. Bill even said this himself ? "Only Newcastle fans buy shirts."

They know if we manage to somehow cobble together a funding plan for a new stadium, we will at least double in value.

I would love to see the comments on here if we were dealing with Bill Wong or Bill Popov.

If you don't want to believe this is about holding out for as much dough as possible, good luck.

By the way, I have £100m to transfer into your account from a Nigerian prince ? just send me £100 and your bank details so I can send you the funds.
Alan Clarke
16   Posted 13/09/2011 at 10:23:19

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"How many Evertonians out there with strongly held, sincere opinions about our financial situation don?t actually go to games every week, don?t buy stuff from the club store, don?t contribute at all to a club whose direst need is, after all, funds?"

Do you know why I've given up my season ticket and stopped spending at the club shop? Because I don't want Kenwright and Co taking my money anymore. It's because of my "sincere opnions".
Nick Entwistle
17   Posted 13/09/2011 at 10:31:39

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No one is pilfering by watching online.
The Saturday 3pm games are not shown on TV over here. If Everton are on Sky so what if I don't shell out for two pints for the privilege?

I doubt many use the internet as a reason not to bother going to a game, and if Sky miss out on a couple of subscriptions I couldn't care. What is their new slogan with the football? 'Because you can't always be there', yeah, because of you, you bastards.

The internet brings the football back to the people without the need to ludicrously keep forking out for because someone nicked it twenty years back and said 'oh no, you can't watch unless you give me money'. Fuck Sky. They would never get my money anyway, and I refuse to have consumer guilt. Complete bollocks.

Its an angry day...

Eric Myles
18   Posted 13/09/2011 at 11:07:07

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Declan #10, I think the board have shown over the past 10 years that they don't really care what the fans want and don't listen to them.

In fact they don't even care what the shareholders want and have taken away their voice by scrapping the AGMs.
Dan McKie
19   Posted 13/09/2011 at 11:33:28

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Fair enough if people can't go because of personal financial reasons, but to say "Blah, blah, I'm not lining Bill's pockets" is bollocks. I go to the games because I love watching Everton and I love watching football.

I'm always saying to 'fans' of Liverpool and Man U who use the tired old excuse of no tickets being available, there is, they just don't want to go... They don't want to spend any money on the clubs they bang on about all the time, and would rather just put 'United' on their facebook status.

Dave Richman
20   Posted 13/09/2011 at 11:26:16

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In South Africa it's almost impossible to get hold of EFC merchandise in any shape or form. There are hundreds of shops all over the place selling shirts of the usual suspects plus Spurs, Newcastle, Villa etc but nowhere sells ours..... and nobody has plans to stock our shirts.

So last season I did my bit and ordered the home shirt through the official online shop..... Apart from the 45 quid charged, there was p&p PLUS almost 100% customs duty at this end. SO the shirt cost me almost R 1,000 in local currency (or the best part of 100 quid).

Now, there is a lad in the Jo'burg area that sells very good quality knock offs for R 200 (i.e 20 quid).... What would you do? It's a fuckin' no-brainer in these economic times
Peter Fearon
21   Posted 13/09/2011 at 14:33:00

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Ciarán (13) Your stinging rebuke would hit home if I thought for a second you had fully read and understood the post and you clearly did neither. I never said the financial crisis was the fans fault for following games on the internet or foreign channels. Football is a business. We are the customers. Our primary role is to spend spend money with the business we have chosen to patronize. If every Everton fan in England went to every game they could, if every Everton fan who could afford it bought a season ticket. If every Everton fan around the world bought shirts and mugs and DVDs and other merchandise we would soon have better sponsors and we have more money. Our financial problems wouldn't be over but it would be a start - and more useful than simply demanding individual board members "let go"
James Marshall
22   Posted 13/09/2011 at 15:17:39

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I haven't read the thread, and I only read the first bit of the first post but as far as I'm concerned the Blue Union are wasting their breath.

It's not going to make a blind bit of difference what they or any of us think. Everton is a business 1st, and a footballl club 2nd.

Protests rarely have any effect on anything, anywhere. You all have the right, but don't go pinning your hopes on it changing anything one little bit.
Kevin Tully
23   Posted 13/09/2011 at 15:24:09

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James #22

You had better go and tell those pesky Egyptians and Libyans then.
James Marshall
24   Posted 13/09/2011 at 15:30:14

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That's hardly comparable. Maybe you should all turn up at Goodison with heavy artillery and automatic weapons?
Declan O'Shaughnessy
25   Posted 13/09/2011 at 15:30:46

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@Kevin #23

You haven't really just compared being an Everton supported with being an Egyptian or a Libyan have you? Really? Really?!?

I understand the point you're trying to make - protest can enact regime change - but I think you need a sense of perspective on this! A fairer comparison would be comparing Everton fans to a bunch of disgruntled M&S customers who are livid that their favourite knickers are no longer available and lobby the company to reinstate them immediately. M&S might even respond if they think it's good publicity, or enough of a groundswell joins the campaign. But tortured, abused, renditioned, Everton fans are not.
Peter Fearon
26   Posted 13/09/2011 at 16:29:09

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Declan, actually I think the Blue Union would make that comparison. They think the same guy has been in charge too long and everything would be fine if he would just bugger off. It's no more true of Everton than it is of Libya or Egypt. We may come to regard whoever succeeds Moammar Gakenwright as worse than the old regime. No-one who praised Kenwright as a hero when he wrested control from Johnson would have foreseen Saturday's demonstration. Sic Semper Tyrannis I suppose!
Ciar�n McGlone
27   Posted 13/09/2011 at 16:48:56

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Stop talking bollocks. If every Everton fan went to every game...most of them would be stood outside the ground scratching their balls.

A sizeable chunk of your article was about how our fans are abrogating their responsibility. It was a sleight of hand, aimed at distracting attention away from the real villians in this pantomine.

If you're now embarrassed by your article, then simply say so - instead of posting some patronising crap about how your article was misunderstood by us daftys.
Kevin Tully
28   Posted 13/09/2011 at 17:26:42

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Behave yourself Declan, just not a fan of stupid statements.

The Yanks across the park are shitting themselves, they said this morning they won't consider a shared stadium because it may upset their fans.

Why? because they know they will whine like fuck if they don't get the success they think they have a god given right to.

If our board think we don't give fuck, who will hold them to account when they fuck up?

The press? No chance.

Andy Crooks
29   Posted 13/09/2011 at 19:36:04

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"We are the customers. Our primary role role is to spend money with the business we have chosen to patronize"
Well done Peter. You really have captured what being an Evertonian is all about.
Dennis Stevens
30   Posted 13/09/2011 at 19:59:07

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Silly me - I thought I was a supporter!
Ellen West
31   Posted 13/09/2011 at 20:45:05

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Good argument. Can anybody recommend a good DVD?
Max Fine
32   Posted 13/09/2011 at 21:17:51

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Well said Peter, Declan and Co. I couldn't agree more
Neil Steele
33   Posted 13/09/2011 at 21:24:24

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wow, what a ridiculously naive article. Completely missing the essence of what football is about, and yet again riddled with completely off the mark cliches about the 'attractiveness' of football clubs.

I am yet to receive an answer of any substance, despite asking over 100 times...who is making money out of football? Who are these wily foreign businessman creaming off millions from their 'investments'?

Are Villa a "global brand"? Were Chelsea? Man City?

Cliche after cliche, and none of them stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.
Andy Crooks
34   Posted 14/09/2011 at 00:00:49

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There's a certain type of "Proper Evertonian" snobbery which pops up now and again. Like ,say someone posts 40 minutes after a game and a "proper Evertonian" wonders how the fuck they got home so quickly and sneers at their internet view.
Well, I believe that those who attend every game get a better experience. They see a different view of the game and undoubtedly get a sense of mood and atmosphere. However, this is a new and interesting diversion. The spending Vs the non-spending Evertonian. Which side is Kenwright on here?
Eric Myles
35   Posted 14/09/2011 at 02:06:48

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Dave #20. Same for me. I bought 3 shirts from the club website last season for my 7 year old daughter and the postage cost more than the shirts.

"But tortured, abused, renditioned, Everton fans are not." I certainly feel like it at times.
David Cornmell
36   Posted 14/09/2011 at 03:23:12

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The club is hopeless, off the pitch and increasingly not. I was in Thailand last month, and looked high and low for an Everton shirt. We are after all sponsored by a Thai beer company.

But I couldn't find one. Anywhere. Got offered and saw plenty of Man City / Arsenal / ManUre / RS shirts. Did not see one Everton shirt anywhere, even on a person's back.

The Asian market is where it's at, I can assure you. If football is going to sustain the stupid money it's swimming in, it'll be by extracting a few quid from Asia. What do you think the chances of our commercial department establishing a fanbase or making a quid there, do you think?

Eric Myles
37   Posted 14/09/2011 at 03:55:52

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David, the problem with marketing in Thailand and SE Asia is that knock-off copies are so cheap, nobody is going to pay Baht 2,500 for a genuine shirt when you can get a copy for Baht 300.
David Cornmell
38   Posted 14/09/2011 at 06:26:57

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Eric, you missed the point. Nobody can even be bothered doing up an Everton knockoff. I know; I looked.

It's about building a brand for the middle classes of tomorrow. But that's something else our club has no idea about.

Eric Myles
39   Posted 14/09/2011 at 08:00:45

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David, I live in Thailand. I can find them everywhere.
Richard Jones
40   Posted 13/09/2011 at 22:36:23

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7 Eric, There maybe no mugs in the shop but there were quite a few applauding Kenwright on the big screen on Saturday, until they wake up Kenwright will carry on killing our club!!
Gavin Ramejkis
41   Posted 14/09/2011 at 09:58:05

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Andy #34 I think I answered a similar question regards the fans over supporters some time ago, the club I would strongly suspect dont give a tinkers toss as they arent a revenue stream for them. I've also said the club should be looking at non match day income which would incorporate these fans across the globe and venturing as to whether or not they can earn money from them.
Peter Lee
42   Posted 14/09/2011 at 17:34:21

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Don't want to pay more to watch Everton at home.
Think I should be able to go and watch home games on dodgy channels for which the club gets nothing
Wouldn't be seen dead wearing any item of club merchandise
Want better food and drink at cheaper prices
Don't want a move from Goodison but want it developed/ want a super stadium in the city convenient for me
Don't want to invest in the club myself/ aren't able to invest
Want to know the intimate details of the clubs finances even though any company in the world would hold certain of those as commercially sensitive
Want a say in the way that the club is run
etc etc

And all this could be mine If only Bill Kenwright and the board were competent./ some undefined multibillionaire could see the sense in giving me what I want, now......

Oh, and anyone who disagrees with me deserves to shouted down and abused.
Dennis Stevens
43   Posted 14/09/2011 at 23:18:19

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Wasn't Peters & Lee the duo with the blind chap in it?
David Cornmell
44   Posted 15/09/2011 at 05:19:26

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You live in Thailand and can find shirts everywhere? Musta sold out the opening weekend of the season when I was there, coudn't find one in Pattaya for love or money, didn't scour Bangkok the same way but didn't come across one either.

Same story in KL, Langkawi, Hong Kong and Brunei....although I suppose you prolly live there too?

Michael Brien
45   Posted 15/09/2011 at 07:32:01

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Declan #10 "....And the best way for a club like Everton to do this is to bring youth through, develop it, and then sell the players to richer clubs. This is, essentially, the Everton model...."

I totally agree Declan - I was a teenager in the 1970's when we were breaking transfer records e.g. Bob Latchford. In those days we could compete at the very top end of the transfer market. But those days have gone and it's been like that for virtually 15 or 20 years now. What we have needed is for the people running the club to realise that.

I have mentioned Ajax before - so it may well bore you all so apologies - but they are if you like a big fish in a small pool. They compete in a dometic league where realistically there are maybe 2 or 3 major competitors. They have never been one of the major rich clubs in Europe - able to pay the highest transfer fees and the highest salaries. They couldn't compete in that market with the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona or the 2 Milan clubs etc. So they developed an academy - producing some very talented young players. Many such as Cruyff and more recently Bergkamp moved on to the bigger and richer Barcelona and Inter Milan respectively. I am pretty sure that the average Ajax fan was pleased to see them go - but I am also sure that over the years they have become accustomed to the financial reality of the situation. In their case by an large the conveyor belt of talent has carried on and although they don't win or get to European Finals every season they have been able to maintain their status as a major club in Europe as a whole as well as in their home country.

I hate to describe football clubs in terms of brands - but Ajax although perhaps not as glamourous as Real Madrid or Barca are still a club that is know throughout the world. For Everton to achieve such a " known throughout Europe" brand staus is not something that is going to happen overnight. But if we have leadership with some vision it is something that can happen. One way would be to actively engage and communicate with the supporters as to what kind of merchandise we want - for instance designs of T Shirts.
Eric Myles
46   Posted 15/09/2011 at 08:00:14

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David #44 don't be silly of course I don't live in KL, Langkawi, Hong Kong and Brunei, I just travel to them every month for business (and Bali and Singapore) but can't say that I've ever bothered looking for a shirt in any of those places 'cos I can find them in Pattaya where I live.
Michael Brien
47   Posted 15/09/2011 at 07:59:33

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Sorry that should be the average Ajax fan was not pleased to see them go........
Jackie Barry
48   Posted 15/09/2011 at 19:30:24

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This article stinks, what a pile of.....
Jimmy Sorheim
49   Posted 16/09/2011 at 06:08:25

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Funny Moyes keeps on contradicting himself. First he goes to the media saying that it was right to sell Arteta. Now a couple of days later he again speaks to the media but now he says that the sale of Arteta set a dangerous precedent. Make up your mind David!!!
Michael Brien
50   Posted 16/09/2011 at 07:32:00

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Perhaps he shouldn't say such things to the press - it seems to only fuel any rumours. Today there was a reference to his comments on the BBC Football website , in their roundup of transfer gossip. He has done similar things in the past - why doesn't he keep quiet. The world and his wife know about Fellani's contract talks largely due to David Moyes comments.Unbelievable!!
Gavin Ramejkis
51   Posted 16/09/2011 at 14:22:26

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To be fair Michael #50, the agents peddle their players a lot more than you reckon and I'd be amazed if Fellaini hadn't been punted around a few clubs already.

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