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Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

And Jesus Wept...

 75 Comments: First  |  Last

I just don?t get it anymore. Yesterday?s debacle was basically a carbon copy of the Man City game which was one of the first games that I have ever watched my beloved blues, and could barely be arsed to look at the TV while I was making dinner.

I don?t want to go down the road of the rant as to the whys and wherefores that we have no money. I truly believe all Evertonians fully understand this and (whilst it?s frustrating) we accept that the playing field is now distorted beyond recognition.

The reason for my article has nothing to do with the financial state of the club. Having zilch money is not Moyes?s fault. However, I cannot fathom his thought processes when he is supposed to be making the best of what he has.

We have no right to beat teams like Man City and Chelsea with such a disparity in resources, but my mind boggles as to what the hell his plan was yesterday.

To start with 4-5-1 away at London?s elite I fully empathise with. I even imagine myself doing such a thing in his position. ?Right lads... keep it tight, 9 behind the ball and let's see if we can nick it via a set-piece or breakaway?. Good plan.

Then the first goal goes in. Still I am with Moyes on doing nothing; neither would I. ?Okay guys... well, not great but lets stick with what we're doing. Keep it tight and once again let's try and nick one and a draw is still a positive result.?

But once the second goes in, I?m sorry I do not compute??

I was absolutely catatonic when the same sodding 11 came out for the second half. Eh?!!!! Two-nil is way different to one-nil. I would rather at least we then decided to have a go from the start of the second half.

Yes, a pasting could have been on the cards but a defeat is still a defeat. If it gets to four-nil then yeah change back to avoid an annihilation. But at least play the percentages. But no... not our Dave. Why decide to ?Ah, lets give it another 10-15 minutes and see if things change, lads.? It ain?t gonna bleeding change Dave at 2-0 with 9 behind the ball!!!!!!! We are now beyond the realms of ?nicking? anything as we're more than one down???!!!!!!

Zero pace in the squad so let's leave the 1 player who has any on the bench in Drenthe. The one guy who at least when he gets the ball may perhaps do something. No, we are left to basically just waste the start of the second half watching the same shite.

Neville for Cahill and my TV nearly gets thrown over the balcony? What the Fuck????!!!!!! Why?!!! How??!!!!! A defender for what DM is passing as a striker??!!!! I think we were even 3 down at that point. Please explain the logic to me or am I just cerebrally challenged?!

What is the issue with Denis?! Has Dave decided he?s actually not very good, not a footballer à la George Weah?s cousin?! Has he struggled to adapt to the move overseas, family, lifestyle etc?!? How long does it take to get an athlete game fit??!!!! I know the bloke got knocked back by Leicester but Moyes must have got him in for a reason. It?s patronising in the extreme on us fans when we are getting nailed yet no strikers come on?! At least give it a go, man!

Vellios came on and scored again, so why not start him?! Am I missing something? Does he have an attitude problem?! Bad trainer?! Why do we have these sodding players and not use them?!

I apologise for the rant but I can accept our financial position. It is what it is and we may never know the reason why clubs like bleeding Blackburn Rovers are a more viable option for buyers.

What I cannot fathom is quite simply??.WHY NOT MAKE THE MOST OF WHAT YOU HAVE??????!!!!!!!!
Mark Yeomans, Nuneaton     Posted 16/10/2011 at 11:29:40

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Steve Cotton
1   Posted 16/10/2011 at 15:58:04

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He knows with the team that he picked that our only chance of a goal is a Cahill header from a set-piece and from a Saha shot from distance.

Coleman was never ever gonna skin the full back, Osman was always going to struggle on the left, Jags was always likely to make his 2/3 mistakes a match (remember Yobo, anyone?) and Hibbert was always going to suffer against class players.

He played the percentage hoping for a draw or a lucky 1-0.

Hate to say it but the RS attacked Man Utd yesterday with pace and determination from the off, two things that we don't have in this team.
Give Drenthe a start, play Vellios from the off with Saha, bring Barkley or Gueye on for 30 minutes occasionally, mix it up a bit, this was stale stale stale... [Sorry for the rant.]
Paul Doyle
2   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:31:15

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What did you expect ? 2-0 down and he brings Neville on, says it all really about the manager. "Let's keep it 2-0 rather than have a go" is his game plan; time for him to go and I couldn't give a fuck who we put in charge.
Trevor Mackie
3   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:34:40

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Trouble is, Mark, he's gotten away with it for years, he lives in a bubble cocooned by relative success in his early days via organisation and athleticism

He's NEVER coped with creativity and has given up trying, one or none up front is his MO

Shortsightedly, "best of the rest" league standings justify it to Kenwright and some of our fanbase but it's a ticking time-bomb ? you can't get away with playing two thirds of a football team forever.
Jalil Noor
4   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:33:30

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And Jesus wept indeed... and not just Jesus, all the known Gods, even those from pagan and ancient times would have wept tears, slit throats and jumped into the abyss trying to fathom the decisions yesterday...

Okay, okay, I might be exaggerating but I'm with you, Mark. WE ALL KNOW we are skint; WE ALL KNOW we have no depth... but exactly why can't we make the best of what we have?

Granted, going for experienced players is a safe bet but going for out-of-form experienced players is a totally bad call. We have a bunch of young unknowns who, when they play, show they can hack it somewhat. Give them a chance? No! ? stick with the experienced.

As Coleman and Rooney, Vaughan and Anichebe showed, when they "burst" into the scene being a young unknown and playing without fear could lift the game, the fans, and give the opposition something to think about.
Mick Fleming
5   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:26:07

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Moyes, Moyes, Davey, Davey Moyes.
We played a mare and you don't care,
Davey Davey Moyes.


We just can't bare his lack of flair.
'The board dont care your squad is bare.... etc, etc!
Terry Downes
6   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:42:06

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Nothing will change I'm afraid untill the fans start to get on Moyes's back and I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Were fucked but less than half can see it... Perhaps only 0.02%!
Ian Edwards
7   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:49:13

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Davey Moyes, Davey, Davey Moyes,
He's our boss in Blue and hasn't a clue,
Davey, Davey Moyes.
Kevin Freaney
8   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:51:03

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I don't get how commentators insist that Moyes is a gifted and great manager!

All we hear is how lucky we are to have him as manager! Seriously! He is one of the worst tacticians in the game. He is a Championship level manager playing the in the big leagues. How he cannot see that his tactics, unchanged week-in and week-out, are not working and need changing is beyond belief!
Mick Fleming
9   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:55:53

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Kevin, based on your comment and to continue with my musical theme then the following version may be apt:

Moyes, Moyes etc etc
His subs are strange but he won't change
Davey, Davey Moyes!

Sorry, I have lost it... a bit like our inept idiot manager and pathetic incompetent custodians.
Trevor Mackie
10   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:58:39

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Davey, Davey Moyes.....
3 million pound and he's takin' us down
Davey, Davey Moyes

(Or effin' clown, if you prefer)
Tony Marsh
11   Posted 16/10/2011 at 16:57:27

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What I read here is excatly what I was writing about on this site 6 years ago. Some of us knew back then what was wrong and how badly Moyes runs his team. Now, it appears the whole world and his dog have cottoned on. I don't hate Moyes the person but I detest and despise what Moyes has turned us in to.

Yesterday's pathetic excuse for a tactical gameplan was no different from all the other 'roll over and die' inept performances over the years... I'm fuckin sick of it.

Why not play a young fit hungry striker when we walk out on to the pitch instead of when 3 down? Maybe I am old fashioned but I always thought a team should go out and try to win with the best players available and that includes always getting fit strikers out on the pitch to score goals.

Fuck off, Moyes ? you're killing us with your dour sterile shithouse tactics.
Kevin Freaney
12   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:12:59

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How about:

Moyesy, Moyesy...give us a wave...
As you're walking away.....
Mick Fleming
13   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:17:17

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Or to tie in with the title of this article:

You're so inept that Jesus wept.

I thank you!
Peter Fearon
14   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:15:21

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This is what happens when managers are under no pressure to achieve. Not just in football. They get lazy. They get predictable. They get careless, they get lackadaisical and nonchalent. Win, lose, draw, so long as we don't go down I'm a hero. That's the world he's been living in and its up to us to put the pressure on him. Kenwright isn't. The media won't. It's up to us.
John Ford
15   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:19:36

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Probably agree that two up front would have been the way to go in the second half. Trouble is im not convinced it would have made any difference. Our problems go way beyond team formations.

We need good players to replace those we've lost and to replace the likes of Cahill who is reaching the end of his shelf life.

Imagine even on a modest spend over the past two years if we'd have bought, say, Scott Parker and a good striker - perhaps a total spend of £20M over the period. We'd be talking in completely diiferent terms now in my view. As it is we're below bargain basement.

Off the point but did anyone notice Suarez diving all over the shop yesterday? The full rolling around, hand waving "I've been shot" agony. Ferguson made a point of mentioning it. Cheating twat!
Stephen Leary
16   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:26:34

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Could not agree more, Peter!
Christopher Kelly
17   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:49:14

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Peter is obviously right and we all know it. He wins awards and is adulated in the media and by his owner (who has no ambition himself)...

The WHOLE plan is to stay up, THATS IT!! 40 points, finish 17th is all either of them care about... It's an old boys club over there and there are absolutely no checks and balances. It's killing the club and killing my interest in the team frankly.
John Ford
18   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:59:47

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Moyes's record has never been about 'staying up'. We consistently finish top 8. If you're going to criticise you could at least bother to think about it and target your criticism.
Christopher Kelly
19   Posted 16/10/2011 at 18:05:42

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Moyes himself has lowered expectations... Every season until we get to 40 points that's all he obsesses about...That's the magic number and once he hits it, bang, he has a job for another year...

I just read on this site the avaerage manager lasts 2.07 seasons ... Moyes has been here 10 w/o winning a damn thing.
Dave Richman
20   Posted 16/10/2011 at 17:58:06

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How about this team:

Coleman, Heitinga, Distin, Baines
..... Gueye ...... Rodwell ........ Drenthe
................... Barkley (or Bily) ...........................
.......................... Vellios ..........................

At least there's some pace there, everyone pretty much in correct positions, and just have a fucking go fer Chrissakes!!!!!

And no HOOOOOOF!!! I intended keeping count of the aimless hoofs yesterday, but it proved too much of an undertaking due to trying to keep awake.

Then the Titter brigade can all sit on the bench for a while...
Christopher Kelly
21   Posted 16/10/2011 at 18:17:57

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Here's a question that might be a good barometer for how progressive Moyes' tactics are:

How many strikers has Moyes been able to sell on for a profit??

McFadden is one that springs to mind - McLeish certainly got fleeced on that one ....

- And Rooney of course, but maybe he shouldn't count because he was in the youth system ...
Christopher Kelly
22   Posted 16/10/2011 at 18:36:02

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And Beckford! That was good business...
Ryan Holroyd
23   Posted 16/10/2011 at 18:37:18

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Andrew Johnson was sold for a profit.
Alex Baker
24   Posted 16/10/2011 at 18:56:55

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Marcus Bent was sold at a profit too, for what it's worth. And the fact that we didn't sign Jõ from Man City is probably enough to be considered a 'profit' as well!
Kevin Freaney
25   Posted 16/10/2011 at 19:30:26

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Great reading this post, reminded me we used to have forwards!
Tony Cheek
26   Posted 16/10/2011 at 19:25:23

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What other manager in the PL would play with a full back so inept as Tony Hibbert for 10 seasons?

What other manager in the PL would keep talent like Vellios, Barkley and Drenthe on the bench game after game, when it is so obvious that they should start?

What other manager in the PL would even consider bringing back a wanker like McFadden?

What other manager in the PL would play without a recognized striker, while three sit on the bench?

Dont even bother thinking about the answer...because such a manager doesnt exist!!
Tom Bowers
27   Posted 16/10/2011 at 18:13:06

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We, as fans don't have all the answers but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that Moyes's same old team selection and tactics will only work once in a blue moon. Several players, maybe more, just aren't good enough.

Whilst we knew the last few match-ups were going to be difficult picking up points, we may have thought he would shake up the squad... which he didn't. Okay, we may have gotten a point or more against the Redshite only for the referee... but what went on in previous games wasn't exactly awe-inspiring.

So here we are, staring the relegation zone in the face yet again, with no change in the system and very little chance being given to the other players in the squad. Surely they cannot do any worse?

Gueye, Drenthe,Stracqualursi,Vellios Barkley etc should be given starts over the next few games ? and not just one game. After watching some of the abysmal defending over the last few weeks, we need changes in defence also.

Moyes, however, is a creature of habit to the n-th degree and will plod along doing a disservice to the loyal following of the Blues, many of whom were around long before he and Kenwright started to decimate this club's standards.
John Ford
28   Posted 16/10/2011 at 20:59:53

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'facing the relegation zone yet again' is Walter Smith in charge again!
Jon Ferguson
29   Posted 16/10/2011 at 20:50:59

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Dave (#19) ? Spot on. That team has defenders who can pass out of defence. Athleticism and creativity in the middle, pace and trickery out wide (one proven and one with potential) and an unproved yet potentially potent target man. I just don't understand why it hasn't been tried out. I would play Barkley ahead of Bily definitely.
Martin Handley
30   Posted 16/10/2011 at 20:42:08

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A lot has been made of Moyes giving youth a chance, but yesterday a lot of the team were 30 or over: Howard, Hibbert, Cahill, Distin, Osman, Saha... Jags is 29, so that left Baines 26, which left Fellaini, Rodders and Seamus as our only under-25s, not a very youthful line-up ? and where was Ross Barkley? I know he wasn't injured.

My point being is that, game by game, Moyes is turning into Walter Smith in both tactics and in not giving kids a chance. Surely Drenthe, Barkley, Gueye, Vellios, Silva, Duffy, Mustafi ? and all would be brighter and more enthusiastic than what we put out yesterday.

Moyes's only reaction was that "we kept it tight" ? no we didn't, dickhead ? we conceded 3 goals! Keeping it tight is a cleansheet... something we've only managed ONCE this season, so that blows the "difficult to play against" myth out of the water.

We play at Fulham next week ? not exactly a happy hunting ground... so why don't we try this line up:

Coleman, Heitinga, Distin, Baines;
Drenthe, Fellaini, Barkley, Gueye;
Vellios, Stracqualursi.

Subs: Mucha, Mustafi, Jagielka, Cahill, Rodwell, Saha,McAleny.

Won't happen, I know... but nice to dream.
Peter Fearon
31   Posted 16/10/2011 at 21:02:25

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John Ford - Yes, actually Walter Smith is in charge again. It's the same dour negativity, the same reliance on a tortoise defense with long balls to a target man (when there is one) and the same drab, worn-out staccato excuses for predictable failure. And it will end the same way too. The question is how far will we fall first?
David Hallwood
32   Posted 16/10/2011 at 21:05:39

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Davey Moyes, Davey Moyes, Davey, Davey Moyes,
Down 3-0 brings on Nev-ille
Davey, Davey Moyes

Apologies for the late entry!!
Eddie Cotton
33   Posted 16/10/2011 at 20:44:50

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When Moyes was unveiled as your manager ten years ago, I commented to a good Evertonian I know that you would win nothing under his leadership. I was aware of his ambition, but seriously doubted his ability to coach a team to win trophies.

Whilst at Preston North End, Moyes was always happiest as a defensive coach, indeed, his assistant at the time was a goalkeeping coach. There was nobody employed to train the strikers, and his way of working was to fill his team with hard working, industrious players who could get a result but would struggle to consistently entertain you with their open, attacking play.

Moyes's tendency to stifle rather than create has become more pronounced as the years have gone by, and so I stand by my original assessment, and will suggest that he will never fully embrace or fashion an attack minded team. It's just not his style.
Jamie Carroll
34   Posted 16/10/2011 at 21:46:53

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The one thing that frustrates the hell out of me about the media is when Everton get beaten by Chelsea, Man Utd etc etc they always begin with "David Moyes is doing a good job with the lack of money" etc etc...

BUT when Norwich play Man Utd and Chelsea and get beat (but at least make it more of a game), finance isn't brought into the conversation!!! Why are the media afraid to question David Moyes?
Dick Fearon
35   Posted 16/10/2011 at 21:27:05

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Part of the problem is Moyes belives the media hype and is acting as if he was an elder statesman of manager world. I believe he actually relishes the idea of being an underdog and plays the part for all it's worth.

Evertonians deserve better than a leader who is misery itself, not one who deliberately tries to crush all hope before a ball is kicked. I'm telling you, Davey, we are getting heartily sick of your moaning and whinging.
Stephen Doyle
36   Posted 16/10/2011 at 21:58:29

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Martin (30) ? That's the sort of team most of us are crying out for, but it will be a miracle if the stubborn arsed bore selects anything even close to it.
Robbie Shields
37   Posted 16/10/2011 at 21:50:18

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Thanks for your thoughts, Eddie, it's always good to get an independent outsider's thoughts on these things. It took me probably a couple of years to see we were becoming drabber by the week and confirmed my suspicions that Moyes had no tactical or attacking knowledge whatsoever. There are some on here who still think he's the Moyesiah, there is none so blind as those who cannot see.

Moyes out!!!!!!
Kunal Desai
38   Posted 16/10/2011 at 22:01:59

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What really fucks me is why does he insist in signing the likes of Gueye and Strac if he's not even fucking going to play them? If they're shit then why bother getting them in the first instance?

He's certainly not making up the numbers because he'll never use them. He'd be better off just having anybody on the bench or better still just name 3 subs that are your favourites to use as subs.
Jimmy Sorheim
39   Posted 16/10/2011 at 22:08:45

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Listen. This all means NOTHING unless you voice it against Moyes in the stadium!!!!!
Trevor Mackie
40   Posted 16/10/2011 at 22:29:19

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Eddie @ 33

Welcomed comment mate, because he was young and, as the little we knew was based upon warm words from the journos, he was cut a lot of slack.

After Walter, the mere fact he looked up for the challenge helped, plus the ends really did justify the means ? the trauma of a last match relegation battle with Wimbledon still haunt.

Many quickly saw what you point out, hoping it would change ? it didn't and now we're in peril again. Warnings were there last year, when we still had Pienaar and Arteta, but the fear was a respectable league finish would hide the shite has unfortunately come to pass.

As a result I wouldn't confidently nominate 3 teams worse than us this time.
Tom Bowers
41   Posted 16/10/2011 at 23:17:24

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Moyes has a well-paid job. He really doesn't give a crap about winning anything nor what the fans think. As long as the seats are filled every home game, then that's his job done. He won't leave unless he gets a better offer and so we are stuck with him.

Yes, he has done quite well with the limited resources over the years but is not changing anything and other managers are on to his strategies.

We have a League Cup game coming up against Chelski who may play some second stringers. Perhaps Moyes will finally start some of ours? After all, no-one is really that serious about this cup anyway so let's use it as a tool for the fringe players.

I had stated before the 3 months ago that this could be a defining season for Moyes and I hope to God it proves to be and someone takes him. We need change soon as we have become fed up with his stale ideas.
David Rowlands
42   Posted 16/10/2011 at 23:03:43

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Just came to this debate late. 41 years supporting this club, I've never been a fan of Moyesie's style... hated it from day one, but with Kenwright and the present board without David Moyes, we would be playing Championship football.

One other point: I think some of his purchases have been questionable, to say the least, but some of the names being put forward to start a game beggar belief. Most of the suggestions I think are Championship players at best, and some of the younger players aren't consistent enough for a start.

Coleman is a case in question with his recent dip in form. I agree it's poor at the moment, but don't throw the baby out of the bath water. Face facts ? most of the squad is poor at best, and without substantial investment, and a plan it's going to be dire for some time.
Matt Woods
43   Posted 16/10/2011 at 23:30:48

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Ten years in charge of Everton Football Club, and NEVER beaten Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal or the Shite in their own back yards in the Premier League. Truely incredible.
Aiden Jones
44   Posted 16/10/2011 at 23:57:58

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Drenthe is not starting as he is so unfit. Came to us in terrible shape.
Jimmy Sorheim
45   Posted 17/10/2011 at 00:01:28

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Aiden. Drenthe has had since August to get fit again, he has played for reserves and had subs, so he is no longer in bad shape.

Actually, the way you can see if a player is out of shape is if he does nothing right, like Cahill and Saha now for example. Yet they both get to play themselves into form. That is David Moyes in his right. Always the preferred ones and never the ones with a bit of form a threat.

By the way Tom Bowers, Moyes did say last season he would go when the fans had grew tired of him, and he lives up to his word, that much we all know. So start protesting next game and let's get him out of this club.
Derek Thomas
46   Posted 17/10/2011 at 00:08:49

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Eddie Cotton #33; was it you that wrote the piece 'Preston Perspective'? If so, re-post it.

I remember it well ? it was this season to a 'Tee' ... You ARE Mystic Meg, and can I have next week's lottery numbers too?
Brian Conrad
47   Posted 17/10/2011 at 08:00:27

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He`s Not The Moyessiah ? he's a very naughty boy! The next Man Utd manager... my Arse!

As many others have pointed out in these columns, Moyes is about as negative a football manager as I have ever known. He is in a cosy environment at our club, very well paid to serve up gutless tactics. I would rather see Tony Marsh at the helm than this dithering dinosaur!

Please, Dave, hurry up and piss off ? and take Billy Liar with you. I will take whatever comes, as long as it's a new approach. I for one will not care if we go down as, believe me, it will NOT be the end of the world. While we have been at the dizzy heights for soooo long Man Utd, the Shite, Chelski, the Barcodes, Villa, Shiteh have all been relegated.

Erm... Taxi for Moyes, anyone?
Noel Lynam
48   Posted 17/10/2011 at 12:52:29

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Jimmy Sorheim @ 39

"Listen. This all means NOTHING unless you voice it against Moyes in the stadium!!!!!"

I'm sure I won't be the only one to note the irony of this coming from someone who seems to enjoy rabble rousing from Norway.
Robert Johnson
49   Posted 17/10/2011 at 13:06:05

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I will certainly be calling for his head at the next match.

So if your in the paddock, and you hear a very loud "Moyes out" please feel free to join in.

The man is taking the piss.
Mark Yeomans
50   Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:27:44

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Thanks for your comments and thoughts guys, makes for an interesting read.

I didn't want to post anything about finances for several reasons

1) I am not a financial expert.
2) There are too many variables that we will never be in posession of the full truth.

So ranting is pointless on that front. To buy a football club in this day and age is just for a select few and (to be honest) no-one who has does anything but lose money on it. It is a vortex and only a fool in my eyes buys a football club for profit reasons.

Although I will get some stick for this, I have no axe to grind with BK as he saved us from near meltdown with Johnson and for that reason I will always be grateful. No I am not happy he is still in control with his clear lack of funds, but again I'm not in possession of all the facts. (A new stadium must be a considerable cross in the box when it comes to potential buyers.)

However, as said in the article, where once there were sympathisers with DM's situation (no money), I feel these people are gradually turning when we are faced with such gameplans and strategies as Man City/Chelsea. These were just the major halogen light games for me (there are plenty more) where I just cannot for the life of me see what he is trying to achieve with his decisions and gameplan.

I think these ripples are gradually increasing to waves, and the guy is starting to lose the protection cloak of sympathy.....

Neither fun nor enjoyable for fans anymore, when the silence is deafening and even the blinkered are rubbing their eyes....
Eddie Cotton
51   Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:44:46

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Thank you to Robbie Shields #37 and Trevor Mackie #40 for your welcoming comments. Much appreciated, lads.

And in reply to Derek Thomas #46... no, it wasn't me who penned 'Preston Perspective', I don't think so anyway. The reason for my vagueness is because I wrote a lot of stuff for the Deepdale club during my time working there as staff writer in the mid to late 90s, though don't recall penning that piece.

As for this week's lottery numbers... do the Irish lottery instead... because you get better odds for three numbers; I should know because after Preston North End I ended up working for Ladbrokes for ten years.

ps: this is a great site, and I enjoy reading all your comments, as they always make for good reading, I'm a Kopite and hence my reluctance to post, but saying that, it's my style to write objectively, and have absolutely no hidden agenda. I've got family who are Blues, and have witnessed their frustration at the way your team play at times. So, I felt obliged to give a personal insight into David Moyes's modus operandi, with a view to highlighting where it's at with your manager.

Once again, thank you for welcoming me.
Edward Boyd
52   Posted 17/10/2011 at 14:40:40

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I enjoyed reading the comments and ditty's but 9 months ago a thread like this about Moyes would have got you run out of town 50 posts without one of support ? as dylan sang "The times they are a-changing"

"Moyes out soon"
Tom Hughes
53   Posted 17/10/2011 at 15:30:29

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I think you are right..... Yes, Moyes does make some mystifying decisions at times, but I think his track record still stands up. I think many people predicted a bad run of results was almost inevitable given the fixtures and the quality of our current squad etc... we all knew this after the first game (and long before if we're honest). I'm just slightly surprised that anyone would be so shocked by the recent results to start demanding the manager's head.

I think Moyes worked his socks off to create a decent side on a shoestring, that side probably peaked 2 yrs ago and .... we haven't even got a shoestring now. I would be surprised if his demeanour was any other way.

At least it'll get everybody of BK and the board's backs...... I look forward to the next happy clappy sesh when BK's face appears on the screen followed by chants of "Moyes out" no doubt!!!!
Mark Yeomans
54   Posted 17/10/2011 at 16:36:40

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Tom @ 53

I'm sorry but it's not the result that I'm getting at, mate; again we aren't expected to win against teams like this. I just don't get the tactics of at least (looking) trying to turn it around?!
Domino Darkley
55   Posted 17/10/2011 at 16:44:24

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I would look over it if the bad performances were confined to the elite teams.

But they are not.

We were absolutely pathetic against Blackburn and almost as bad against Wigan.

Tom Hughes
56   Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:12:43

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You may be right.... I don't really know. However, I saw a far more one sided encounter with City last year end in a victory for us..... and no-one came on here moaning about it. This year it didn't work!

Yes, we are shite this year..... but is it really a big surprise? Sell your two most creative players..... buy third division strikers and assorted cast-offs, and that's where it'll end, unless you're extremely lucky.....
Mark Yeomans
57   Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:23:05

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Aye Tom, i cant argue with that post in that we did turn it round an yeah no-one complained.

Guess im more referring to fact we were never looking like getting owt from man c/chelsea games and i just would have dearly loved for us to be SEEN to try and change it

Its not the result that bothers me one iota. its the manner of it pal i guess
Mark Yeomans
58   Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:26:16

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oh and Tom, im also asking why bring gueye and denis in and not play them? Plus within how many minutes of being on did Royston set the goal up? and Velios score AGAIN for that matter? So why not longer playing time?

Guess were all asking questions with no answers
Paul Johnson
59   Posted 17/10/2011 at 17:46:04

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To quote Einstein "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Sadly, this costs us £3m/year...
Tom Hughes
60   Posted 17/10/2011 at 18:40:31

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Paul.... Perhaps that old adage could equally be applied to spending nothing year after year and still expecting to finish in the top 6. The Stats show that somehow Moyes has achieved it many times, despite those constraints. I'd say our biggest gripe should now be with the reasons for those "constraints", and not the person who has had to work within them..... regardless of how much he earns.
Dennis Stevens
61   Posted 17/10/2011 at 18:54:35

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You're right, Tom. The mismanagement of the club at Board level & the financial consequences are the biggest gripe. But none that should exempt Moyes from criticism where it's merited. The percentage game he plays has averaged out in our favour over the course of most seasons, but it's often grim fare from match to match.
Dave Wilson
62   Posted 17/10/2011 at 19:48:18

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"50 post without one of support" ?

Has the editiors censorship really made this once great site site so completely one sided ?

Looks very much like it doesnt it Michael ?
Tom Hughes
63   Posted 17/10/2011 at 20:18:52

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Dennis, you may be right, but we'll never know if Moyes would've adopted the same "tactics" had he been afforded greater funds over the past 10yrs..... had he been able to keep the likes of Rooney, lescott, Johnson, Peinaar, Arteta, Yakubu... etc, or even be able to have a decent size squad, and not have to buy 3rd div strikers and unknown Greeks or cast offs. Especially when there have often been obvious and serious defficiencies that needed addressing. Would we even be talking about negative tactics or attitude?
Lyndon Lloyd
64   Posted 17/10/2011 at 21:34:27

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Dave W: "50 post without one of support" ?
Has the editor's censorship really made this once great site site so completely one sided ?

Looks very much like it doesn't it Michael ?

I just checked, Dave, and there isn't a single comment that has been removed from this thread. If you want me to send you a screen shot to prove it, I'd be happy to.

I know there are some who badly want to believe that there is a systematic effort on Michael's part to delete messages he doesn't agree with but it's just not true.

For one thing, it would take 24/7 monitoring so he could catch these posts and remove them before anyone saw them. I think you need to take a step back and realise that this site and its contributors currently reflect deepening apathy and frustration with David Moyes's current strategy among a certain bloc of the fanbase.

Whether it's representative of Evertonians as a whole or not is another discussion but instead of crying censorship, why don't you provide the first post of support to this thread?
Trevor Mackie
65   Posted 17/10/2011 at 21:49:59

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Dave Wilson

Please, please, please write one of your clear as mud defences.....I'm getting bored.
Robbie Shields
66   Posted 17/10/2011 at 22:12:48

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Dave, nice to hear from you again mate, like Trevor I'm eagerly waiting for your infinite pearls of wisdom so that they can be put up in the anals (spelt that way intentionally) of fame along with Mr Tunstead's and Doddy's (who is conspicuous by his absence).

To come on here and question the integrity of the site and insinuating censorship shows your limited thinking in its full glory; you're embarrassing.

One point I would like to make is that, contrary to some of the posts on here stating that no-one complained when we were winning with shite, dour, dull, negative, hoof ball, there were a fair few of us actually, but we were drowned out by those understandably who focussed on the results. Some of us said that we will never win anything playing that way, we can't keep on winning games 1-0 by relying on massive doses of luck week in week out. But we were lambasted for wanting something to whine at.

This shit has been going on for 8 years now, and yes I include the infamous Champions League debacle in that. We won so many games luckily it was untrue... I was at most of them; negative goal difference remember.


Oh, and thanks Eddie Cotton for your comments too, much appreciated.
Drew O'Neall
67   Posted 17/10/2011 at 22:44:27

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Don't know if it's been said already but in answer to the original post, the idea of taking off Cahill for Neville was obviously to push Fellaini, who has an uncanny ability to control the ball wherever it is hit at him, up front.

I suppose he looked at the bench and thought Felli was a better option than what he had and that's not so hard to beleive.

The only thing I would say is that for the hour or so I watched (the last hour), Saha made no contribution whatsoever and yet he got a 7 in the reports I have seen where everyone else got 5 or 6 - what am I missing?

Velios should start and Saha can come on, at least that way Velios can run around for an hour attempting to get us in the game.
Lyndon Lloyd
68   Posted 17/10/2011 at 22:56:51

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Drew: The only thing I would say is that for the hour or so I watched (the last hour), Saha made no contribution whatsoever and yet he got a 7 in the reports I have seen

Speaking personally — and I'm happy to be challenged on it — I gave Saha a 7 because on the rare occasions he got the ball he at least tried to do something positive with it. Often, that meant just taking it and running at defenders with it in a vain attempt to drive through three blue shirts because there was nothing else on but it was at least positive intent.

I don't always but I felt sorry for him on Saturday. Playing as the lone striker for Everton must be the one of the worst gigs in Premier League football. You've got next to no support or service and yet you're expected to get goals.
Andy Crooks
69   Posted 17/10/2011 at 23:09:26

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Dave, there is support for Moyes on other threads. Any way, we haven't heard from your left of centre(sorry, Wilsonite) view for a while. A genuine request, why don;t you get a sort of state of the union view article up. I know you were talking of questioning Moyes come May if things hadn't improved. How about something now? Attacking from the sidelines is fine as is questioning the editorial policy but if you are unhappy well,lets;s hear from you.
Richard Dodd
70   Posted 18/10/2011 at 12:17:07

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Davey has ALWAYS favoured the `keep it tight.....` approach and it has served him well. My firmly held view is that the present squad just cannot reach the the standard of their predecessors ? or their own normal levels ? of carrying out the training drills they are versed in. Usually by Christmas, the message has been hammered home and results improve.

Don`t lose faith in our greatest modern manager ? he`s more than earned our admiration.
Edward Boyd
71   Posted 18/10/2011 at 18:26:48

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Rrichard how on earth
Edward Boyd
72   Posted 18/10/2011 at 18:50:34

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Richard how on earth can a manager who has won nothing in 10 seasons be called "OUR GREATEST MODERN MANAGER?" that title belongs to one howard kendall. I dont think people are losing faith in moyes but he is going down in the estimation of evertonians,well at least the ones i know.
"moyes out soon ?"
Paul Conatzer
73   Posted 18/10/2011 at 19:22:08

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I beginning to think Moyes is Gordon Lee without flair......
Ray Robinson
74   Posted 18/10/2011 at 19:23:53

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Richard, given that MOST of the squad were present last season, how the hell does it take until Christmas for the training drills to take effect? Have they all suffered collective memory loss in the close season? You do talk some drivel but this caps the lot. What makes you think that football is all about drills anyway? Ever heard of skill, flair and, Heaven fobid under Moyes, improvisation?
Tom Hughes
75   Posted 18/10/2011 at 20:06:14

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I'd say losing Pienaar and Arteta (ie the two people who helped glue our play together) will have had a greater effect ......... both in terms of performance and general morale.

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