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Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Spare a thought for poor sad Everton

 39 Comments: First  |  Last

I would be curious to hear some Everton fans weigh in on the following article about Everton that appeared on the Untold Arsenal blog:

Obviously, this is written from an Arsenal perspective, but if we're going to be discussing another club, I think that the perspective of fans of that club would be very valuable and add to the discussion. Thanks.

Anne Thompson, London     Posted 17/11/2011 at

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Dean Adams
1   Posted 16/11/2011 at 22:16:19

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Anne Thompson... Are you the Anne posting over there?

I agree it makes for interesting reading and just want to say thanks for pointing it out.
Eric Myles
2   Posted 17/11/2011 at 01:21:44

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Only read the first paragraph and it's either a pisstake or someone seriously knows nothing about Everton.

"Kenwright pouring money into Everton year after year" FFS!
Gerry Quinn
3   Posted 17/11/2011 at 01:37:16

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Load of shite - was it written by Elstone?
Gerry Quinn
4   Posted 17/11/2011 at 01:37:59

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The wheels turn round and round - back in the 60's we considered them in the same vein as that author thinks of us now.
Ian Tunstead
5   Posted 17/11/2011 at 02:59:45

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Agree with some of it Anne. It is right about one thing, we do have an AEE group, but we call them the 0.02%.Just like you have plonkers who want Wenger out we have the same sort the want Moyes out.
Alex Kociuba
6   Posted 17/11/2011 at 03:40:06

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Ian can you not see why Arsenal fans want Wenger out or Evertonians wanting Moyes out? You don't have to agree with their point of view, but not even being able to see the argument only highlights the fact that you're probably the plonker.
Ian Tunstead
7   Posted 17/11/2011 at 04:12:38

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I must be a plonker then Alex because I can't see why Arsenal fans would want Wenger out. What is the argument? The only thing I can see is that there are people out there who are never happy unless they have perfection, but I don't think perfection exists in their eyes, so they will never be happy.

You have Everton fans on here that want Moyes out and want someone like Wenger in and then you have Arsenal fans who want Wenger out and want Moyes in. In my opinion, it is they who are the plonkers.
Martin Mason
8   Posted 17/11/2011 at 04:44:54

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Apart from the pouring money in comment (which doesn't make the complete article wrong) I thought that it was a very well written and rational article. A rational view in an ocean of irrationality. Interesting that he used the "anti" word - very naughty :-)
Paul Matthews
9   Posted 17/11/2011 at 07:02:27

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The money pouring in comment as we all know is simply not accurate, but is that the perception most non evertonians have of Bill Kenwright? If so then that is where one of our problems lies. The propaganda war has already began at our club and these perceptions need to be shattered via the media. People need to be educated that not only have the board not invested a penny, but they have also stripped the club of most of its assets, borrowed to the max and made a total balls up of most things they try to do (new stadiums, park end office development, player contracts etc). On another note, whats happened to the latest potential buyers? I really do try not to get sucked in and should know better by now, but I still find myself scouring the internet for news. Also does anyone know relatively speaking has Everton ever been in as much a finacial mess in the past as it is today.
Richard Dodd
10   Posted 17/11/2011 at 09:20:51

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Paul, necessity may have caused the Board to hock everything in sight but if they have done so it is only in the cause of keeping Everton in the top flight. The implication of your remarks is that it`s been done for their personal aggrandisement. We all know that just ain`t so!
Tony J Williams
11   Posted 17/11/2011 at 09:45:38

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That Wenger, he has turned shite hasn't he? Won nothing in 6 years and everyone knows that longevity is directly correlated to success...hmm
Steve Guy
12   Posted 17/11/2011 at 09:32:57

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There's a line from someone which I know I'm paraphrasing but it's along the lines of "I'd rather be talked about (for whatever) than not talked about at all". (Mae West ?)

I think one of the biggest problems we have had until recently was that we weren't being talked about.

Bill BS and his Board of plastic directors have been able to present a picture of Everton to the world of a well run Club punching above it's weight (I hate that phrase when associated with Everton more than I can ever say). They have been able to perpetuate this myth thanks to the manager; like it or not our league positions at the end of most seasons have backed this perception up.

However, thanks to the supporters groups under the BU banner, we are now being talked about. That's a good thing. The fabrications spun by the Club can only stand so much scrutiny before even the laziest journo has to start to question them. Publicity (good or bad at the moment) can only better place us on the radar of those parties who are looking to buy, as I personally do not for one minute believe that the current owners have tried that hard. They are clueless.

The BBC website is running an article today about the protest this Saturday. Our Director from the Ministry of Truth, Ian Ross is still banging on about the 24 / 7 search and how all but a minority of fans understand the position etc etc etc. Momentum is gathering for change and the BU's consistent, objective, factual and non emotional messages are starting to really un nerve a Board who (as the Arsenal blog states) have nowhere to turn.
Nick Entwistle
13   Posted 17/11/2011 at 09:55:34

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'There's one thing worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.'

Oscar Wilde
Steve Guy
14   Posted 17/11/2011 at 10:16:22

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Thanks Nick !
Joe Halligan
15   Posted 17/11/2011 at 11:31:25

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Sam where did you read that he's signed for 70k a week?
Kris Boner
16   Posted 17/11/2011 at 11:33:53

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Where is this contract news coming from? I've seen nothing. Can you provide us with a source cos I'd like to be less sceptical about this, I love Felli.
Denis Richardson
17   Posted 17/11/2011 at 11:34:50

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its a little depressing that non Evertonians think that BK has been putting his own money into the club at all - let alone for years! Still as mentioned above, some publicity is better than none and some parts of the media beginning to ask the right questions at least.

BU keep up the presure.
Andrew Ellams
18   Posted 17/11/2011 at 11:59:39

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Ian Tunstead, do you always look backwards? There are Evertonians and Arsenal supporters that want change in management because they can see the decline in fortunes coming for both teams. Admittedly, this will probably just leave Arsenal in a place Everton were at 5 years ago when all seemed rosy and positive, but for them not good enough. I'm sure both sets of fans appreciate what the respective managers have done for them in the PAST, but also know when it's time for change.
Liam Young
19   Posted 17/11/2011 at 12:42:47

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Funny though hwo they potrait arsenal as this big successful club when they haven't won fuck all in years. Maybe they are close to champiions league spots now, but the more money that gets pumped into other clubs around them, they are slipping away into average also. We all know everton are in crisis, but to say arteta is doing better in an arsenal shirt is a load of old crap, he had his peak at everton a few seasons ago, and we sell him as he is close to 30 for £10m, I don't see that as bad business for us, if you look at it for what it is.
Plus, how was he ever going to replace fabregas?!?, maybe arsenal fans hold themselves in higher regard than they actually are.
Gavin Ramejkis
20   Posted 17/11/2011 at 12:54:09

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A cynic would point out Arteta signed a fat pay rise contract too but still got sold, contracts aren't worth a balloon but it does provide a stronger point for the player to get an even higher wage when they do leave.
Sam Hoare
21   Posted 17/11/2011 at 13:04:17

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Denis- i was only responding to Steve Pugh's post to be fair. Though you can't deny that there is a clear polarisation on here between those prophesising disaster and those with a little more faith.
Tony J Williams
22   Posted 17/11/2011 at 13:18:55

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I am as cynical as the rest of them too Gavin but Arteta actually took a decrease in salary to go to Le Arse.

I applaud that, the same way Welsh Michael Owen took a pay cut to got to Real. That is proper footballing reasons, not just the money.

If I was being really cynical, he probably realised that his win bonus would more than make up for lost "basic" wages....
James Flynn
23   Posted 17/11/2011 at 15:35:26

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Referring to Goodison - "Everton?s by an ancient millstone". This simply isn't so. Yes, Goodison is ancient but does not need to be a millstone. The new owners across the park can confirm that.

Their Boston Red Sox Fenway Park is just as old and was in the same condition 10 years ago Goodison is in now. They spruced Fenway up over a couple of years, added seats, and turned that dilapidated dump into the cash cow it is now. And yes, without 15-20 Corporate boxes.

Our new owners can do the same. And it won't cost this $350 million number being tossed around in here.
Brian Waring
24   Posted 17/11/2011 at 18:30:15

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Ian, those ' Plonkers ' as you put it, don't they have a right to their opinion?

Also, you don't half come across as an arrogant fuck in your posts. Its like your opinion is the only one that counts, and everyone else outside of your little world, is just talking bullshit.
Eugene Ruane
25   Posted 17/11/2011 at 18:52:20

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Being called a 'plonker' by Ian Tunstead?

Like being called 'fatty' by Rick Waller.
Robbie Muldoon
26   Posted 17/11/2011 at 19:08:25

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A world of Ian's would never result in innovation, expansion and progress. Just stick with your mud hut will you, it keeps the wind out!
Christopher Kelly
27   Posted 17/11/2011 at 20:37:24

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Useless article. I don't know jack about Arsenal and they sure don't know jack about us...

The one thing I do have to say is at least Arsenal is watchable so I'd gladly swap managers.
Glen Anderson
28   Posted 17/11/2011 at 23:12:04

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Reading through the Arsenal blog post, they started with some wrong assumptions but credit where it's due, they then listened to the Blues who were commenting and admitted that they'd taken their assumptions from the mainstream media and were appreciative of the corrections.

The Blues who are leaving comments are acquitting themselves well and there's some good banter between the two sets of fans.
Ian Tunstead
29   Posted 18/11/2011 at 00:34:31

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Andrew, I like to look forwards, but it is important to look at the past to learn from past mistakes, I look at all the teams who thought they could do better by having a change of manager and were lost to the lower leagues. It was a change of finance and players that is needed not a change of manager. So what if there are Everton and Arsenal fans out there who want a change, I believe there are more out there who want to keep it the same.
Robbie Shields
30   Posted 18/11/2011 at 11:33:53

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Ian, I'd like to remind you, or even educate you, that Arsenal got rid of Bruce Rioch when he got them to 5th or 6th, for an unknown Arsene Wenger, who transformed them from "boring boring Arsenal" to the best footballing side England has ever seen. They even managed the impossible, unbeaten for a whole season and thoroughly deserved it. Arsenal were transformed by the foresight of David Dein and other senior management by having the nous and bravery to appoint Wenger and trusting their beliefs.

May I remind you also that Wenger has spent less than Moyes NET yet his teams play attractive and successful football.

In my opinion, you are a coward, just like your Messiah Moyes, does Nil Satis Nisi Optimum mean nothing to you? It does to me, the Blue Union and a lot of other Evertonians.
Nick Entwistle
31   Posted 18/11/2011 at 11:58:09

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Wegner's also been able to buy the best young talent in the world and sell them to the biggest teams in the world for huge profit. Didn't we sell our top goalscorer to Leicester?
Ian Tunstead
32   Posted 18/11/2011 at 12:11:04

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Robbie the whole point of my post has been to defend Wenger from the idiots who want him out and then you come on here and tell me all about Wengers achievements!

But let me remind you, Wenger got a bit of a head start on Moyes by not having to compete against Chelsea's and Man City's billions early on which meant it was much easier to break into the CL places and have the big money to go out and buy the best young talent in the world and sell them for huge profit and then go out and buy a top class stadium to keep them at the top.

You are an idiot Robbie, you call me coward because I want Moyes to stay? I am doing you a favour, otherwise Everton would drop like a stone and you would be the one shaking in your boots like a coward.

If we lost Moyes, I would not lose any sleep or even if we ended up in the lower leagues. At least that way we wouldn't have to be associated with the PL. Nothing cowardly about it, it's called having common sense and an understanding of football, which you seem to lack.
Dennis Stevens
33   Posted 18/11/2011 at 12:31:18

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Ian, I can see some merit in the argument made for sticking with Moyes under present circumstances, as he's proven he has the ability to keep us in the top flight, although the idea that he is unique in having this ability is laughable. Where I'd particularly disagree is if we ever did get "a change of finance and players" then we would most certainly also need a change of manager.

I know some say that in those circumstances Moyes would deserve a crack at it to show what he could do with a better squad. This may be true, but you don't always get what you deserve & I believe we'd just be wasting time & money pending the inevitable appointment of a new manager. Mind you, should such halcyon days lie ahead, I'll be more than happy for Moyes to prove me completely wrong!
Robbie Shields
34   Posted 18/11/2011 at 21:33:11

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Ian, your ramblings are all over the place, I can only presume that the pressure is getting to you too, just as it is to Kenwright, Ross, Elstone and Moyes.

You simply cannot equate Everton fans wanting Moyes out with Arsenal fans wanting Wenger out. IMHO they are mental, Wenger IS a genius, I love the Arsenal way of playing, their style and ethos, as Arteta does too apparently.

I'd swap Moyes for Wenger in the blink of an eye, as I suspect a great many other Evertonians would, not sure how many Arsenal fans would go for it though!

But what would I know, I don't have any common sense or knowledge of football unlike you, and you are doing me a favour after all and preventing the Mighty Blues from dropping like a stone, that's very brave and humble of you, I didn't know you wielded so much power or influence.

But then you go on to say that you wouldn't lose any sleep if we got relegated? Nurse!
Ian Tunstead
35   Posted 19/11/2011 at 00:43:05

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Robbie there is no pressure, it's a game of football at the end of the day. That is what sport is all about. Teams lose, teams win, players are bought players are sold, teams are relegated teams are promoted, just like life, you take the highs with the lows... So no, I don?t feel like I need a nurse because I wouldn't lose any sleep over Everton being relegated.

Perhaps you have lived a more sheltered life than some, maybe you should watch the news and see the real concerns in the world. It shows if anyone is a coward it is you for worrying about being relegated and wanting a change, it seems to be just a panic knee-jerk reaction on your part.

In your opinion Arsenal fans are mental wanting Wenger out, I agree, but in my opinion you are mental wanting Moyes out. Why would you swap Wenger for Moyes when he hasnt been able to win anything for over 6 years even though has had far superior players and far more money to spend but has been too stubborn to spend any? Moyes doesn?t have that luxury.

You must be right though, I obviously do wield a lot of power and influence when i consider how i am attacked and insulted by the same few people constantly for expressing my opinion nearly every time i have a comment to make, I must really be getting to people when I am being called things like a coward and an arse hole or a cunt even when other people have said similar things but it is my name that gets mentioned.

Even when I haven't even made a comment on an article, I have been mentioned and called the biggest apologist on this site. But it's ok, because I am no coward, all the 0.02% can all get together and gang up and I?ll still wipe you out like I always do. And you will know you have been wiped out when the insults are thrown about with no real come back or counter argument.
Robbie Shields
36   Posted 19/11/2011 at 05:21:05

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Ian, really, what are you on? Listen to yourself, you sound like a cross between Ashton Kutcher and Charlie Sheene, get a grip.

Has it ever crossed your mind that when you wipe out everyone as you claim, as evidenced by the fact that there is no real come back or counter argument, that some of us may have actually just got bored?

The reason I would swap Wenger for Moyes would be so I could watch Everton play proper football again and stand a realistic chance of actually winning something. Wenger may not have won anything in the last 6 years but he has come very close a number of times, qualifies for the Champions League every year and even reached the Champions League final don't ya know. But hey, Moyes came 4th once!!!!!! No comparison is there!
Ian Tunstead
37   Posted 19/11/2011 at 09:55:04

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Robbie, If people make sarcastic comments to me I will be twice as sarcastic back. Have a read of your comments and a few other examples on this thread. If people insult me every time I make a comment and don?t even bother to give me a counter argument because they ?get bored? what do you expect me to do? I think the truth is that people on this site are very passionate about Everton and desperately want Moyes out and they want everyone on their bang wagon desperately trying to influence people to start a march and get Moyes out, but I am just as passionate and so when my arguments make them look foolish they will first insult me and if that doesn?t work they will try to change the direction of the discussion and try to make me look a fool, sometimes they have (my spelling is terrible) but when it comes down to a football argument they don?t have one.

As for you argument. How would Wenger have Everton playing proper football again? Have you heard the saying, you can?t polish a turd? The only way Wenger would have Everton playing proper football again is if he has money to spend on quality footballers. Didn?t Rooney, Arteta, Pienaar and Baines play quality football under Moyes? That is because they are quality players. What happens to quality players? The teams with the big money buy our quality players, what a coincidence, now their team plays quality football while we are left with kids from inferior leagues who we hope can play good football.

?Wenger may not have won anything in the last 6 years but he has come very close a number of times,?

Wow, you sound like a Wenger apologist. Let me do some apologising of my own. Moyes may not have won anything in the last 10 years but he has come very close a number of times as well. He didn?t lose to Birmingham in a league cup final he lost to Chelsea in the League cup semi final, he beat Man Utd and Liverpool but lost to Chelsea in the FA cup final probably the best team in Europe that year while we had our 3 best players injured. If it wasn?t for getting Chelsea nearly every year in the cup maybe we would have won a few trophies by now.

Phil Bellis
38   Posted 19/11/2011 at 10:36:16

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Ian, I#m sure you' know what .02% of 36,000 is?
"...I wouldn't lose any sleep over Everton being relegated..
Just shows how different we all are in our living-and-breathing Everton support and the effect it has on our lives
I still can't sleep BEFORE derby matches and toss and turn about getting to 40 points, despite such concerns, at many times in my adult life, the very least of my bloody worries
Martin Mason
39   Posted 19/11/2011 at 11:00:39

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Ian, rudeness on internet forums is a very interesting subject. Why do people when not obliged to following social norms "speak" in a way they wouldn't if they were speaking f2f? I often suffer it because I have many views which differ to the mainstream. I believe in the end that anybody who resorts to rudeness has either lost the argument or doesn't have the intelligence to argue his point anyway. I don't believe that anybody should be censored for having alternative views but rudeness should have zero tolerance. I realise that we can insult each other in a light hearted way but rudeness isn't that.

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