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Takeover at Arsenal

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There was a thread just before Christmas, I think, that hinted of a takeover at Everton and that – if it didn't happen – the poster would come back and tell us why. I think his name was Richard , lots of folks were sceptical as the pre Christmas half Season Ticket Sale was about to be launched. What happened?

Seeing the rumours of a buyer in for Arsenal got me thinking... Okay Everton don't have a stadium, they are not in London, but our history and our recent league form is very similar to Arsenal. We have a well thought-of long-serving manager, a state-of-the-art training facility and very little debt. So how much would it take to fix Everton and could we be fixed for less than the £1.5 billion that it would cost to purchase the North London Club?

Most people on here talk about £500/600m to build a new stadium etc etc. Okay, why isn't our 24/7 bullshitter of a chairman banging on their door? The stadium could be built in Stanley Park now that FSG have finally admitted that they don't have the will nor Funds to do it. Manchester has shown that a city can have and support two successful Football Clubs.

Once the stadium is built they would get a similar return For a massively lower initial investment... but then again, no-one is buying football clubs these days. What is unbelievable is that I didn't know Arsenal were up for sale whereas our fantastic chairman has been scouring the world 24/7 for someone to invest in Everton. It's that word 'invest' that rings alarm bells — is the club for sale?

This club will never win anything while we have this charlaton as chairman and what is crazy is that some misguided folks still think he has invested money in the Club. I sometimes... no, often worry at the lack of the will to rid the club of this lying conniving excuse for an Evertonian.

But hey — be careful what you wish for.

Steve Sweeney, Prescot     Posted 03/03/2013 at 10:35:57

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Ian Pilkington
175 Posted 03/03/2013 at 15:31:46
So Arsenal are reported to be in line for a £1.5 billion Middle Eastern takeover bid. Of course they are based in London, play almost permanently in the Champions League and have a superb new stadium.

Paris St Germain were taken over by Qatari investors in 2011-12 with the French club reputedly valued at €100M. £500 million – a third of the Arsenal figure – would surely provide a generous sum to purchase Everton and funds to redevelop Goodison. Yet Bill Kenwright has claimed for over a decade that he has been unable to find a serious buyer – and many Evertonians still believe him!

Nick Entwistle
181 Posted 03/03/2013 at 15:34:39
There's only so much room for so many billionaires in English football. If they're not going to get CL each and every season then they'll look elsewhere like PSG and the rest for the guarantee.
Bobby Mallon
182 Posted 03/03/2013 at 15:35:25
Kenwright will not go unless the fans constantly give him shit every game — but that won't happen.
Matt Traynor
183 Posted 03/03/2013 at 15:40:47
Ian, it's crap. £1.5 billion? Crap. UAE and Qatari investment arms working together? Crap.

For what it's worth, Everton aren't attractive to a Sovereign Wealth Fund as they aren't interested in stadium development, only in throwing money at the team to get an advertising return for their country. With any new owners having to invest in a new or redeveloped stadium before even thinking about making any sort of return on investment, it rules us out to a lot of potential buyers. So Cleggy can bullshit all he likes (he will) but until the ridiculous asking price and other conditions are dropped, he's stuck with the club as much as we're stuck with him.

Amit Vithlani
186 Posted 03/03/2013 at 15:54:29
Does the OP say we have very little debt? Umm no. Relative to our operating profitability (or lack of) and our assets (largely hocked or flogged off) our debt is actually pretty high.

There seems to be a general perception that the Qatari Investment Authority or similar Middle-Eastern behemoths have more money than sense. Well, one thing they are not is stupid. The PSG take-over was deliberate: use Paris to raise the profile of Qatar as a hub. They are in direct competition with the Emirates which is trying to do the same with its own various investments.

There is no doubt that at the right price, we should be of interest to an investor. However I don't believe it would be someone in the league of the QIA or Abu Dhabi, as we don't have the profile they are looking for.

Paul Gladwell
190 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:18:24
Amit, we had a bigger profile than City, but by all accounts those Qataris did come to us before City only to realise what clowns they where dealing with.
Amit Vithlani
191 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:21:15
Paul - I disagree. I don't know whether they came to us first or not, but the fact is City had a bigger stadium than us and larger crowds. That's a big part of having a better profile.
Paul Gladwell
192 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:23:58
Amit, they also had a history of a yo-yo club and never owned that ground at the time.
Paul Gladwell
193 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:37:49
Some people are forgetting how big a club we could be if we were taken over, we would get bigger gates than City, they don't even fill away ends at certain games, there are issues stopping our sale more than an old ground, didn't Wyness tweet such the other month about boardroom issues stopping our sale.
Mike Oates
197 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:48:43
The biggest noose around our neck without any question is Goodison! and our location. The total investment required to implant Everton into a “global brand” position is of the order of £350m, £200m of which is required for a new ground alone, leaving the rest to clear the debt and provide funding for the team. This isn’t going to happen for the 2nd team in the City of Liverpool, a city which doesn’t figure in any discussions about “ Corporate Hospitality”.

The huge success of Manchester Utd in the world of football helped bring further investment to Manchester City , and the pull of a London base will pull in substantial funding/investment to any London club. I have just played a game of golf with a guy whose company uses a huge amount of Sports Corporate Hospitality and they repeatedly will buy packages from the likes of Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd and are looking forward to West Ham’s move into the Olympic Stadium (and would welcome and support investment into QPR and Fulham) – mention Everton and he just frowns.

Even Liverpool who have a huge global fan base compared to most of these clubs are struggling to get some “big” investment – the success of Manchester and London (via Chelsea & Arsenal) have left us light years behind. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we should have some reference to Liverpool in our name – god forbid.

Amit Vithlani
198 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:36:34
Paul - .with a bigger stadium, I wager we will get the type of investors the Parisians and Citteh attracted. Throw in the rich heritage as you say and loyal fanbase and we have the right components to be highly attractive.

We are unfortunately at the mercy of the comedy circus otherwise known as our board, this I agree. If they did sell out by some miracle, we could hope for an "interim" investor, someone with the nous and money to get us on the way with a larger stadium. That individual then attracts a larger fish to finish the project and buy him out.

I just don't see us going straight from our current condition ( no valuable assets other than half a dozen players, a big chunk of debt and a mid-sized stadium) to being the play thing of the QIA or its ilk.

Andy Peers
200 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:38:05
Watching the game on Fox Soccer Plus in California yesterday they showed Kenwrights face on the screen when we were 3-0 up and the commentator stated how great a chairman he is but there was a small fanbase that constantly criticize him.

First of all, why do they only show his face and compliment him when we are winning? Are his critics only a small fanbase? They say the reason he is a good Chairman is because of his great relationship with Moyes and he gives him all the money he can. Now to get a fair opinion of how good of a Chairman he is should you not compare pluses and minuses? If these are his pluses then the minuses are about ten to one! Can somebody please tell me what he has done for Everton?
Don't tell me hiring Moyes as that was blind luck.

Martin Handley
201 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:42:28
The problem as I see it is we will never attract the billionaire investor/buyer we all crave — not just because of the board but because we have the problem of our "loveable " neighbours have a higher media profile and carry the name of the city they play in. Everybody has heard of Liverpool (the city) but how many people have heard or know about the district of Everton? I know it's a hard fact to swallow but it is part of the problem... and, just to make it perfectly clear, this does not absolve in any way the blame attached to the board.
Kevin Tully
205 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:55:41
The increase in TV revenues has given the Board a new lease of life where our finances are concerned.

They were starting to feel the pressure as the debt was rising year on year, now they can comfortably start to pay it down, and keep the banks happy.

The asking price will also have gone up considerably. They never wanted a sale anyway, unless someone made a ridiculous offer they could not refuse.

Terry Downes
206 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:08:54
Kenwright doesn't want to sell. Listen carefully — he's looking for investment. What he really wants is someone to come in and give Everton £25million a year and leave Bill in charge, that won't happen and neither will any takeover.
Paul Gladwell
207 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:11:34
Andy, you will be seeing a lot more of his face if we get to Wembley next week; he's the only chairman who hogs the limelight when his team does something good, well him and that West Ham prick.
Nick Waters
210 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:13:29
Being Chairman of Everton affords Kenwright a profile and lifestyle that he could never have with his other, luvvie, life. As long as 7th or 8th is achieved each season, he can service the club's debts, string along the faithful with the occasional false transfer link or 'failed' medical, and keep his kipper on screens across the world.

Groundhog Day for the foreseeable...

Jeremy Benson
213 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:23:13

Are you being serious? Affords a lifestyle and profile that he could never have with his other interests?

He is a leading West End theatre producer. He also has his own record label and is a film producer too. Was also an actor if I remember right. I would guess that these interests provide a lot more income to lead a lifestyle than EFC does.

And I'm not sure whether you think Liverpool is particularly glamorous, but I'm pretty sure that Bill could lead a very high profile and glamorous lifestyle in London if he wished given his high profile in the west end. Maybe he does, I don't know. He will employ far more people in his capacity as theatre producer than Everton Football Club does too. I would also wager that he is better known, worldwide, for this west end stuff than for being chairman of Everton.

There are other things outside football, you know.

Barry Rathbone
214 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:10:56
Much as it pains me I agree with Martin Handley we've never been aggressive enough in dealing with the clowns next door our presence is a quirky historic one, football anoraks know but how many of them are multi billionaires?

City despite their yo yo status twatted Utd a few times in their dark days maintaining a niggly feuding presence but in all honesty since the late 60s I've always felt we've been led by a board of gin swilling chumps a bit too grand to really get into them as the fans wanted. Big Joe is the only one who took no shit.

But still reckon the reason we're not sold is down to how much the present chumps want.

Nick Waters
215 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:36:09
Wrong Jeremy. His company makes modest profits, and dropping, and he would be unknown outside the theatre going London set. His ego is not going to be satisfied with that. Look at the Kings Dock episode and how he shafted Gregg and EFC for his own position. I'm afraid you've bought into the Blue Bill myth big time. But of course you're not alone.
Colin Wainwright
216 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:36:51
Jeremy. He's certainly an actor. I wish he would lead his "high profile and glamorous" lifestyle in London and leave us the fuck alone. He will employ far more people as a theatre producer than as chairman of Everton Football Club because he's outsourced everything to do with the club, bar the management and players.
David O'Keefe
220 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:55:17
A shareholder and ex-employee, invited as a guest of Reading FC, was turned away from Goodison yesterday.
Kevin Tully
221 Posted 03/03/2013 at 17:58:31
Don't forget Kenwright only holds just over 25% of the shares, and Earl just over 23% and Woods around 18%.

We don't know if Kenwright owes money to the likes of Philip Green for his original purchase, so Columbo would have trouble getting to the bottom of who owns what, and who owes who!

Kenwright puts his mug everywhere, so he is the one who takes all the flack, but the decision to sell might not even be his.

Paul Gladwell
223 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:13:43
David do the fuckers have a little black book under the reception table, what with this and the bullying off that school teacher, what do O'keefe, Prentice and co make of these issues?
Patrick Murphy
224 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:01:55
Colin I think he spends all his time in London and Everton FC is just one of his hobbies, that's why he allows DM to make all the football decisions and perhaps why he pays him so much,he can't be bothered with the day to day dealings of the club, he claims that he doesn't understand the financial side of things. How can we ever move forward with a part-time Chairman who only deals with situations as they arise?

I have asked the question before but is Everton's Board the smallest in the PL? Perhaps clubs like Wigan and Swansea are smaller but both of them have hands on chairmen.

The problem with the City of Liverpool is that they have never been able to make a decision without dithering and pandering to various interest groups, whereas Manchester is far more pro-active hence the lack of resources in Liverpool in comparison to Manchester.

If god forbid anything happened to Bill Kenwright, illness or worse, where would Everton be? It is a mistake the club has made previously with the sad demise of John Moores and we still haven't fully recovered from that sorry episode.

Colin Glassar
225 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:12:29
I honestly don't think we could be sold for £50m never mind £100-150m. I just don't think we are that an attractive proposition tbh. We have an ancient stadium which is falling down, a very small, and ageing, squad which needs massive investment, a chairman who shows no interest in selling and even less ambition, a manager who s looking to leave, a piss poor commercial team, no European pedigree to speak of , a smallish fan base etc, etc, etc....
I just can't see it happening in all honesty.
David O'Keefe
226 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:16:59
Paul: The school teacher was on the Echo's Fans Forum before he started his campaign. He was removed not long after he started his campaign.
Paul Gladwell
228 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:21:20
Imagine if such treatment got dishepuppy to kopites under those yanks like what has happened to him, 6,000 marching with front page echo headlines
Patrick Murphy
229 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:17:15
Kevin I hadn't realised that BK's holding was so small and the figures you give only adds up to 66% that leaves 34% in A.N. Other(s) hands. So it would be a long and hard road for someone to hoover up the shares and even then you would have to get Woods to sell all of his shares to gain a majority shareholding. So it would seem that the board could quite easily block any potential buyer from ever taking control of the club.

Colin Wainwright
231 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:24:59
IMO Patrick, the answer lies in what Kevin @ 221 alludes to. No one knows where the power lies. "Friend" of the club. Phillip Green appeared when Kenwright needed money to pay Greggs wife back for his "borrowed" shares. So who's calling the shots? Not Bill, imo.

You're right in saying that he spends all his time in London, because he has no real control or knowledge, over what is happening at the club. He's a public face. A patsy. He'll be here until his "friend" gets his stadium in a supermarket car park. (again imo)

Gavin Ramejkis
232 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:32:04
Jeremy not that long ago that jumped up prick of a ticket tout boasted a £1.5m annual profit for his luvvies darlings sideline, by theatre standards (as repeated by those I've spoken to in theatre) he's a small fry. He lives the life of a Billy Big Bollocks down in the smoke as most theatricals did from the 60s (left Liverpool way behind and use the label as some sort of badge of honour - Cilla, Tarbuck, et al) The EPL is light years ahead of his penny ante melodramas and regurgitated 50s and 60s shite, he pays his manger Moyes more than double what he made as a profit never mind the rest of the staff.

You want theatricals at the top you look at the likes of Cameron Mackntosh not BK.

Ian Smitham
233 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:34:21
David #220, sorry but it needs a name please.

Patrick#224, most large shareholders of companies have no idea how they work that is why hey appoint a Board to act for them, led by a CEO who runs the business on a day to day front.

Mike #197, excellent contribution, reality bites home

Kevin #221 and Patrick #229, that is why anyone with over 25 per cent is known as a controlling shareholder. Against that, there may be a puppet, but who pulls the strings, enter Mr Columbo!

Colin Wainwright
234 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:44:50
Most large shareholders of companies have no idea how they work? Really? He's the Chairman FFS. A member of "the board".
Colin Wainwright
235 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:51:20
Why does "it" need a name Ian?
Ian Smitham
238 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:55:52
Colin, I wanted to know who this person is, and I the absence of a name, I would not be sure to be able the said incident was true, how about you?
Colin Wainwright
239 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:57:38
Well, I don't see an obvious reason why David would lie about an incidence like this. How about you?
Ian Smitham
240 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:57:48
Colin, I also stick by the comment you query #234, hat is wholly why an executive management team is appointed a d why a CEO is asked to lead them, do you really think that Richard Branson knows how to fly a plane? Or even run an airline or train set or whatever else he does? No, he appoints managers to run it and appoints a Chief to run them.
Ian Smitham
241 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:02:26
Re #239, me ? I agree, why would anyone lie? But not everyone follows such a simplistic philosophy.
Jimmy Sørheim
242 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:26:44
The key to selling or not selling lies with not only Kenwright. He is just the front man, while the other shareholders hold the real power of whether to sell or not.

Kenwright is a good actor and "liar" and he can get away with anything, as has been shown in the past. The real sales price has been tipped to be around £150M but I highly doubt they are willing to sell for even that. Remember these are greedy fucks that use Everton to take out loans for their own companies.

The board is not looking to sell unless they get their own price; until then, they will only look for an "investor" who can grow their shares.

We are in a rot, between a rock and a hard place, and things will stay that way for a long time.

Richard Dodd
245 Posted 03/03/2013 at 18:39:53
Playing-wise, we have never finished above Arsenal in the Premier era and I don`t think the Arabs have much interest in ancient history — however illustrious Everton`s may be. They also own a beautiful in London stadium on which they owe £230M being rapidly paid down via annual surplusses.

Nobody loves our club more than I do but, realistically, I do recognise that as a vehicle for international flag waving, the Gunners leave us in the cold meaning that we wouldn`t even be seventhish in the shopping list of possible takeover targets.

Anyway, I think Bill would prefer to focus his search for salvation on Tesco car parks and BHS surplus landbanks! Oh, I forgot, he tried that and it didn`t work out!!

Colin Wainwright
246 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:11:45
Re 241. Why would anyone lie?

Well people lie to attempt to convince other people of an alternative reality, in anticipation of gaining an undue advantage, such as, Goodison will fail its safety certificate, the moneys in the bank tomorrow, etc.

David, on the other hand, has nothing to gain, as far as I know, by stating what he did.

Colin Wainwright
249 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:19:59
BTW, I certainly do think that Richard Branson knows how to run an airline/ train company. To ask whether he knows how to fly a plane, has no bearing whatsoever.
David O'Keefe
251 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:24:10
"Ex employers show lack of class and maturity,

Lets put it to bed because its getting rather silly.

The quote is from Keith Wyness.

Harold Matthews
255 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:39:33
Keep at it lads. I can't join in because it's all way above my head but the posts are interesting and enjoyable.
Ray Said
258 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:49:36
The problem is if anyone turned up waving their last 500 Mill Boys Pen Bill would screw the deal by asking for an extra hundred quid and remaining El Presidente
Phil Walling
262 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:57:55
Too many clues,David. I heard the guy was the invited guest of the Reading Co-Chairman whose name just happens to be Samuelson.
He offered to pay and told the doorman his dad`s cheque was in the post !
Tony Marsh
274 Posted 03/03/2013 at 19:03:20
Cardiff bought by Malaysian Billionaire. Cardiff are not even in the Premier League so all this "We need to be in Champions League to find a buyer" just doesn't wash.

If someone wants to buy, someone needs to want to sell at right price... That's it in a nutshell.

James Stewart
288 Posted 03/03/2013 at 22:04:10
Well we aren't for sale for one thing. All Kenshite wants is an investor. Would you give Bk your money to play with? I think we can all answer that pretty easily. Hence no deal!
Eugene Ruane
290 Posted 03/03/2013 at 21:49:43
This is just a rumour.

I repeat, a rumour (so just about 100% certain, a load bollocks).

But I'm just curious to hear if anyone else heard anything regarding a new ground in Walton Park and talks with the council and them paying or...erm..something.

Repeat - a rumor.

Colin Wainwright
294 Posted 03/03/2013 at 22:19:54
Bootle's new ground Eugene. Defo.
Richard Dodd
311 Posted 03/03/2013 at 23:06:38
I`m no longer a BK apostle but `a sale` is not always the gateway to success-just ask the faithful followers of Leeds,Forest,Blackburn,Derby,Wolves and Pompey-all top clubs who now wallow in the lower leagues folowing changes of ownership,some several times.
Believe me,it could be worse!
David O'Keefe
312 Posted 03/03/2013 at 23:16:48
"I'm a BK apologist but `a sale` is not always the gateway to success — just ask the faithful followers of Leeds, Forest, Blackburn, Derby, Wolves and Pompey — all top clubs who now wallow in the lower leagues following changes of ownership, some several times.

Believe me, it could be worse!"

Edited it for you, Doddy.

Ian Pilkington
318 Posted 03/03/2013 at 23:42:32
The "top clubs" you've listed are simply not comparable to Everton, the fourth most successful club in English football with nearly as many trophies as all six put together.
However I'm pleased to see you back on Toffeeweb and I believe you have genuinely ceased to be an apostle (and hopefully apologist) of BK.
Steve Sweeney
320 Posted 03/03/2013 at 16:56:45
With regard to the club debt, in the scheme of things Premier League, a debt of £45-50M is chicken feed compared to Chelsea and Man City's debt.
Steve Sweeney
321 Posted 04/03/2013 at 00:03:22
What I am trying to focus on is that Everton = Huge potential:

£400M for a new Stadium
What is the buying price £150M ?
Total purchase price £550M.

As against Arsenal £1,500M = Club in Decline – owes £200m+ for Stadium.

Once bought, either could achieve CL in the first season with similar investment in players, the new Stadium could be built in 12 months, So the income potential of both clubs would be similar by Year 2.

Don't forget they are talking of reducing the cost of season tickets if they buy Arsenal. It will never happen, I know, but if someone had a little initiative maybe it could... but, more to the point, Kenwright has got to be exposed and pressured into selling up.

Here is a link showing how Everton's shareholding was made up:

Bill and Woods own 93% of True Blue Holdings which in turn owns 71% of the Everton Shares, this means Blue Bill owns roughly 51% of the Club. In effect he is the majority shareholder on paper.

Noel Early
324 Posted 04/03/2013 at 01:01:03
Don't rock the boat, boys... all this arguing will put off all potential investors. Bill's 24/7 search has attracted loads of interest, he has turned down untold millions due to the fact all these people wanting to takeover want rid of him. For a man that spent his youth in the Boys Pen, this is no way acceptable: All Hail the Supreme Ruler!
Dick Fearon
327 Posted 04/03/2013 at 02:38:41
The best thing that could happen is what happened across the park. Demanding an immediate repayment of loans the banks installed a prominent business man with a remit to sell the club.
I admit to not having any financial expertise so I could be talking through my hat.

Jackie Barry
328 Posted 04/03/2013 at 04:57:20
Well reading some of these posts makes me realize that either people have forgotten how great this club used to be or they are just too young to remember. How sad things have become that many of our fans are now happy for the scraps left over from the big boys.

Many are responsible for what has happened to this club from chairman to manager, but those responsible for most of it are us the fans. We are happy with the way things are, there is no unity and nobody deems the fight for Everton FC worthy enough to warrant more than just their match time.

Eric Myles
329 Posted 04/03/2013 at 05:17:47
Steve #321, True Blue Holdings no longer exist, they went into voluntary liquidation in 2004 so BB controls 51% of nowt.

Ian #233, a 'controlling shareholder' with only 25% of the shares doesn't control very much and can easily be outvoted at the AGMs. Oh, hang on.

Steve #320, if we have debt of £40-45 mill why do the accounts say that we have to pay creditors £70mill?

Tom Harries
338 Posted 04/03/2013 at 08:32:54
For what it's worth, the takeover 'reports' at Arsenal have been widely dismissed in London as a scam. The quoted price is way too high (Kroenke would make £400m profit) and the press release statement they made doesn't sound like something Middle East businessmen would say.
Alan Williams
342 Posted 04/03/2013 at 08:15:30
This has to be the most stupid thread ever on this site, firstly the main point then the mass of sheep that follow with the predictable bile and abuse mainly at BK.

Seriously, look at the balance sheet of Arsenal along with the matchday income – it’s staggering in business terms. Once they have paid off the debt they will have at least £50 million per year plus to spend on players and still stay in the black with ease. As a business alone they are worth investing in that’s why the current board probably won’t sell because they don’t need to.

Comparing EFC with Arsenal is just laughable, EFC put a minor increase on season tickets and this site comes active with the same moaners as on this thread, do you all want or can afford £1,300 per year to sit in your seat?

We all love EFC no matter what side of the divide we lay but outside us fans we aren’t as big national or even globally as you all think. We are just another PL club looking for investment, but the problem we and Liverpool have is the set-up cost is way to high. Yes you can blame the board for this but its doesn’t change the fact no matter how much you all moan.

Paul #223 & David #226: you will find that EFC was correct to ban the teacher if you dig and find the truth, so maybe you just took KEIOC's word for it. His argument is purely political: he used EFC fans to front his beliefs, nothing wrong with that but every story has two sides.

Tony #274. It’s far cheaper to buy Championship teams and invest to get them promoted than buy EFC, pay back almost immediate if they do it in a couple of years, is that so hard to understand?

Andrew Clare
350 Posted 04/03/2013 at 09:34:15
Twenty years ago, we were as big a club as Arsenal. The trouble is that now to most people we are regarded as a Bolton a Blackburn basically a 'backwater' club — not a major player. Look at the major leagues in Europe and their are probably 4 or 5 teams in each league that are considered big clubs, we are not in that bracket.

I have been an Evertonian for over 50 years and I know what a massive club Everton were. I still believe that we could get back there but as time passes it is becoming more and more difficult, especially with expectations being lowered all of time.

In my view, if we don't sell soon we will well and truly be in the wilderness!

Bobby Thomas
355 Posted 04/03/2013 at 09:25:17
Steve (321):

What I am trying to focus on is that Everton = Huge potential:
£400M for a new Stadium
What is the buying price £150M ?
Total purchase price £550M.

As against Arsenal £1,500M = Club in Decline – owes £200m+ for Stadium.

Once bought, either could achieve CL in the first season with similar investment in players, the new Stadium could be built in 12 months, So the income potential of both clubs would be similar by Year 2.

Erm.....slightly optimistic that!! Have you seen Arsenals sponsorship deals and the amount they turn over on match day? Their property assets and cash in bank?

There’s no comparison between the two clubs any more. Up until recently, even 15 years ago when they pipped us for a UEFA place with an Ian Wright goal in the last few minutes of the season when Joe was in charge, we were very similar clubs in terms of history tradition and stadia. Financially there wasn't a great gap either in terms of turnover.

It is now a chasm.

The failure of this board to produce anything of note since the Kings Dock has gone from being worrying to, in a footballing, Evertonian sense, a scandal. There is still vague bullshit from Elstone about having designs and the like when they don’t even appear to have a site.

They’ve got nothing. It’s similar to politicians bickering about getting the banks lending. No party can get it done but they bicker and posture around the subject for the sake of spin, image and potential votes. But there clearly isn't the power, ability or inclination to get it done. I stopped paying attention to anything a politician had to say on that subject years ago.

Similarly with our ground move. "We're looking at various sites blah blah blah....Liverpool are doing this so we can't blah bah blah.... redevelopment is too expensive......." They have a certain agenda and will come out with any amount of bull and smoke and mirrors to suit that agenda. Elstones bullshit about Liverpool at the last "fan forum"(I think) regarding redevelopment was just embarrassing. Why are you even talking about them? What the fuck are WE doing??? The aim is always to deflect and obfuscate.

They can’t get it done. They don't have the ability or, as far as I can see, the inclination. They are waiting for a get out pay day that isn't going to come due to the price.

So we sit here, do nothing and rot in a 1950's tribute park, representing an era that has long since gone, that doesn’t exist anymore.

We run the club to the maximum and beyond. The club cannot grow and we are financially capped at Goodison. Lets be honest, we sell players to keep running. The decline will continue the longer we remain and we will be outspent by clubs that are, in a historical footballing context, nothing on us. But we will. And some will scratch their heads and wonder why.

This cul de sac the club have driven themselves down will, in my view, result in relegation at some stage and, bleakly becoming the next Sheff Wed or Preston North End. The next manager, whenever this is, will probably have to cope with a reduced wage bill and further cost cutting as the financial handicap of the ground leaves us increasingly unable to compete in the Prem and we gradually slide down the wages table. That's were all our focus goes. Remember approx 70% of all cash goes on wages. That is unsustainable and the squad is, in Prem terms, tiny. The smallest. Can people see where we are heading?

A way out is getting our shit together regarding a ground move, hopefully increasing revenue with corporate and sponsorship, adding value to the club and therefore making it a more buyable proposition as we are currently worth......... just about jack shit. What are our board and CEO doing regarding this??? What have they done post Kings Dock to benefit the club, move it forward and safeguard its future to anything remotely resembling how Arsenal have driven their club forward in the last 15 years?

This is an Everton scandal and nothing is being done, no-one is asking any questions and one day, due to this mis-management the shit will hit the fan.

Patrick Murphy
358 Posted 04/03/2013 at 10:34:55
Bobby that is the most sensible assessment of the plight of Everton FC that I have read in a long time. We are heading towards the cliff edge slowly but surely and there appears no way of preventing it. From what you have said you can see why Goodison – which the banks hold as collateral – has to be replaced... but, with no money to do so, it is the perfect Catch-22 scenario.

Richard Dodd
362 Posted 04/03/2013 at 10:11:12
Let me make my position clear. I would love the Club to be sold – 'just love it' – but desperately want it to go to some person/company with business sense and vision, ie, not another Kenwright.

Harking back to former glories serves no purpose and adds nothing to the value of the Club. I don't do history, but there is ample evidence that the cracks were beginning to show at Everton when Phil Carter and his mates set up the Premier League 21 years ago.

On the field, Everton managed only 12th position in the final season of Division 1 and gates averaged only 23,141. Behind the scenes, the Moores dynasty had come to an end and the Club was up for sale.

The drawn out battle for control between Kenwright and Johnson was made public at the end of the first Premier League season in which Everton finished 13th and gates averaged barely 20,000.

I hark back to all this only to illustrate that, just like the clubs I mentioned in my previous post, Everton has been 'sick' for an awfully long time.

I now hold the view that, in his various guises, BK has done well to keep the Club in the top echelon of the English game. That may well be due to other buggers' efforts but he has been at the helm for much of the time and deserves some credit. Unfortunately for him, his failings – no vision, no money, bad judgement and a natural inclination to mislead and dissemble – will record him as "the man who missed the boat". In short: not up to it.

But I repeat, it could have been worse!

Trevor Lynes
363 Posted 04/03/2013 at 11:01:02
How can any business attract investment without investment from within?

Newcastle and Wigan both have boards with chairmen who invest their own money.

Our board is made up of multi millionnaire share holders who do not invest in the TEAM!!!

Steve Sweeney
364 Posted 04/03/2013 at 08:42:24
Eric #329
Followed the wrong thread regarding True Blue Holdings, I forgot , of course that company went west after the Kings Dock fiasco.

However, Blue Bill, Earl and Woods control around 70% of the shares and are not going to vote against anything that upsets the Gravy Train. I just wish the fans would focus on the £24m other expenses and why a top 6 Premier League Club can be run so badly.

It also amazes me that fans still cite the "I Mortgaged my house to Buy the Club" and think that Bill has sunk millions into the club, when in fact, other than to purchase the shares, he hasn't put a penny into Everton.

Lewis Morrison
374 Posted 04/03/2013 at 11:24:12
Everton do not need a billionaire owner because we already have one!

Yes that's right we already have one!!

Ok, he's not your typical billionaire owner who throws millions at the manager and pays mind-blowing wages to attract the world's best but one that lends our chairman money to buy his shares then gets his mate (Earl) to buy shares and sit on the board alongside him. Throw in a couple of Hollywood has-beens to make half-time appearances and that's pretty much it.

In return, he makes our loveable chairman do stupid things like...

No, not dressing up as the Toffee Lady and selling half season tickets on Goodison Road or bungee jumping off the Top Balcony to raise money for transfers.... No, much stupider than that!

In return, he gets him to do things like move our club out the city to a retail park full of shops that he owns — no, sorry — his wife owns and in the background would be our new state-of-the-art, virtually free stadium that we would have to fill every game to make something like £6 million a year?? Hahahahahahaha

Anyone who is a fan of the Sopranos will know that the mafia have a word for this... it's called a shakedown!

People seem to forget that there is a lot lot more to the "Why can't Everton attract a buyer" saga and people with a lot more information and evidence than me have backed this up many a time.

Tom Hughes
384 Posted 04/03/2013 at 12:30:30
Everton FC could've been everything that Arsenal are...... or any other club that has planned and delivered for its future. The potential is massive.... even if it hasn't been packaged in a shiny new stadium. Our fanbase is as big as all but a handful..... other clubs have grown their fanbase in the premiership era. We have appeared to have attempted to shrink ours with lack of vision and investment in facilities, and a littany of lies and ilconcieved unviable schemes that have split our support. We now have to sell kids season tickets for less than £100 just to try to fill the seats of those who have already had enough and walked away.
Dave Roberts
391 Posted 04/03/2013 at 11:37:39
As somebody stated above, the club's major disadvantage in attracting a buyer is the stadium. Buyers are just not particularly interested in stadium least not until success is in the bag. Whether this is true or not I would have to agree that Goodison is certainly, at least, not an attraction.

But in my opinion, the club are missing a trick here. If we (and the club) accept that the likelihood of a new stadium is remote, then we have to accept also that we have to stay where we are for the foreseeable future. Rather than whinge about that the club should plan to make this a positive. Rather than tut-tut about having to make do with an old stadium much of which remains 'as built' this should be turned into an attraction, something which would make the club unique in the Premier League. Remember, if everybody threw out their chattels when they got too old or had seemingly outlived their useful life there would be no valuable antiques for people to make fortunes out of. We have, accordingly, to recognise that Goodison is relatively antique too but rather than bemoaning that fact it could be used as a positive and I don't think it would cost too much to accomplish. It could be completed in a few serial steps which I would carry out in the following order:-

1. Build a second tier on the Park End. This would be the biggest single part of the job.

2. This would allow the rear part of the lower Bullens (the cave) to be turned into the corporate facilities which the club needs without losing capacity. The loss of seats there could be taken up by the additional seats in the Park End upper tier. As a mass spectator facility the lower Bullens is an embarrassment anyway.

3. The awful cladding around the ground (which makes it look like it belongs on an industrial estate) should be removed and the original brickwork and windows should be exposed, cleaned, repointed and made to look as it was originally intended. In due course, a decorative new frontage could be built on the main stand facade, in keeping with the Edwardian theme.

4. The two remaining Leach stands should be emphasised for what they are and their ironwork picked out and made a point of interest rather than hidden with 100 years worth of crap paint and plywood.

5. If the concourses are Edwardian then make them look Edwardian with confidence and with imaginative design and decoration rather than trying the impossible task of making them look modern and up to date which they never can be.

6. I could go on and on but in the interests of brevity a lot of work could be done, most of it cosmetic over time, and a theme should be made of ours and Goodison's history. Tell people that when they come here they are coming to the first and the oldest and that we are proud of that and that they should be impressed.

As for some recognition of our place in the history in Liverpool? Well we weren't born in Liverpool because Everton was not a part of Liverpool in those days but it is now and rather than the rather silly 'Everton the People's Club', how about 'Everton, the club that brought football to Merseyside'? 'Everton the first club to bring football trophies to Merseyside'? Then our extensive list of firsts could be picked out in a plaque, in due course, on the new Main Stand facade.

Perhaps it is the case that many people don't appreciate our place in football history because we don't shout loudly enough about it.

Alastair Bates
394 Posted 04/03/2013 at 12:56:59
I’ve done a bit of research on this in some spare time over the years and the current makeup of the Shareholding at Everton is as following;

Blue Bill – in three different guises – holds 9044 – 25.84% - Board Member
BCR Sports Ltd – which is Robert Earl – holds 8146 shares – 23.27% - Board Member
Jon Woods – in two guises – holds 6622 shares – 18.92% - Board Member
Lord Grantchester – holds 2773 shares – 7.92%
Arthur Abercromby – holds 1935 shares – 5.53%
Sir Philip Carter CBE – holds 714 shares – 2.04% - Board Member

Then some others you might know are Keith Tamlin (120 shares, 0.34%), Nigel Holland (115 shares, 0.33%) and Jimmy Mulville (115 shares, 0.33%).
The rest of the Everton shareholders which total a holding of 5166 shares (14.76%), are smaller holders and even individual shareholders.

It has been mentioned (Steve, 321) about True Blue Holdings (TBH) and Bills shares in this company, but, TBH was broken up to allow Paul Gregg to sell his stake to Robert Earl following the fiasco of Kings Dock.

Everton shares (of which there are only 35,000) can only be purchased privately which an agreed fee between the two parties must be reached, that’s why Bill can’t put a price on the club as a whole – but it shouldn’t stop him putting a price on his own holdings, the price he paid for the majority of his holding is £857 per share.

Alastair Bates
396 Posted 04/03/2013 at 13:07:57
£800 per share that is.
Danny Jones
402 Posted 04/03/2013 at 13:33:40
'our history and our recent league form is very similar to Arsenal. We have a well thought-of long-serving manager, a state-of-the-art training facility and very little debt.'

This statement alone negates the entire post. Just plain wrong.

Have an opinion or even a rant but start with some facts, please.

Tom Hughes
403 Posted 04/03/2013 at 13:43:13
I also believe that Goodison can be turned into a unique asset and even attraction. Attraction for new fans and owners/investors alike. We literally have something that no-one else has. It is there already.... ready to be fully exploited. Some fans are a bit like the club when it was trying to sell us the debacle that was Kirkby..... they are only too quick to put the boot into the grand old lady..... highlighting the obvious defficiencies, and ignoring the quality. There are relatively cheap solutions to most of the problem areas, however the main point shouldn't be lost that whilst the back of the lower Bullens is an extremely poor viewing area, the view from the upper Bullens is as good as anything you'll find elsewhere. Likewise, whilst the back of mainstand may appear to be behind a jungle of obstructions, again, this can be eleviated greatly by reroofing that side...... with the seats in the Top Balcony 20m+ closer to the action than seats in the upper tier at the Emirates or Old Trafford or St James'. In otherwords, Goodison has some great qualities as well as failings, and all that is new is not always progress.

Practically ALL other clubs have changed hands in the time that we have supposedly been looking 24/7. Many with a fraction of our history or fanbase, and many in much smaller and more problematic stadia. With each passing season our potential is diminishing and our rivals are growing in wealth and stature. I'm not sure we can continue much longer simply doing nothing and hoping that Moyes can perform a miracle on a budget and Liverpool will somehow self-destruct. We need new owners with a vision to move us forward and make the most of what we are..... as has happened at so many other clubs across all the divisions.

Andy Peers
404 Posted 04/03/2013 at 13:48:30
Alastair (#396):

To bring Everton to a zero debt position they need to sell all 35,000 shares at £2,000 as I believe a number of £70M was mentioned as total liabilities. As our current board has built up that debt then £2,000 per share should be the asking price – and not a penny more.

The reason the board would not sell for that amount is that they want a return on their investment and £2,000 will not give them any after the debt is paid. I am sure they are looking more in the £4,000 per share range as that will give them good profit for basically putting our club in debt. That would make the asking price about £140 million which is close to a number that has been thrown around on this site before.

So here is what you get for your £140M:

1) A stadium that needs a £200M investment.
2) An aging playing staff that needs about £200M investment over 10 years.
3) A training facility that you can buy back at £15M.
4) £100M to spend on advertising and marketing in general to make the name Everton as big as Man City is now and Man Utd have been, to get the club to finally turn a profit with success and worldwide recognition.

So an investment of £655M is needed for us to be in the running again... any takers? The least the board could do is knock £70M off.

Dave Roberts
563 Posted 05/03/2013 at 08:36:35
Tom Hughes,

I agree about the Upper Bullens – that's where my season ticket is and has been for years. I wouldn't go anywhere else. The amount of timber flooring makes me a bit nervous though but I'm not sure if anything can be done about that. Not quite so nervous since smoking was banned though!

Andy Meighan
698 Posted 05/03/2013 at 19:15:12
Look. We all know that we must have been approached on a number of occasions. The crux of the matter is that lying bastard kenwright would sell in a minute. Only he wants to stay on as figurehead. Because in his stupid warped thespian mind he thinks he is EVERTON and herein lies the problem Get used to it guys because unfortunately were stuck with the phoney fucker for many a long year yet

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