Ashley Williams keeps his place after his goalscoring intervention Thursday against Lyon
Everton 2 - 5 Arsenal
Ronald Koeman's quest to find a morale-boosting win lay in ruins after the visit of Arsenal saw them bang in five goals despite a fantastic opener from Wayne Rooney.
After a dreadful start with Pickford forced to make two incredible saves, Everton took the lead in fantastic and nostalgic style with Wayne Rooney bringing the ball under control from a superb Gueye tackle that won the ball and firing in brilliantly from distance to beat Petr Cech.
Arsenal continued to look threatening going forward, with Williams getting booked early on and Gana following him into Pawson's book before the break.
The pressure on Everton's defense finally told when Pickford spilled a shot and Monreal followed up to score.
Arsenal had played some scintillating football while Everton had showed some fight and determination, with both Gana and Williams putting in gritty tackles in an entertaining first half.
Williams did not reappear after the break, Davies replacing him as Everton reverted to a back four. Sigurdsson got a chance to curl in a free-kick but Keane got too much on it and headed over.
The lively stuff continued into the second half, Arsenal pressing the Blues back but good work by Calvert-Lewin and then later by Vlasic, was not followed by clear chances and Everton paid the price when they were sliced open again, a cross swung in by Sanchez and headed home easily by Özil.
Ramsey was left all alone but could only fire over when it looked easier to score as the Blues struggled to contain the visitors. Another Sigurdsson free-kick was this time floated too deep and came to nothing.
Gana lunged in stupidly on Xhaka and saw his second yellow and a red card, putting Everton down to 10 men and surely ending this as another ultimately disappointing contest.
A shocking giveaway by Vlasic saw Arsenal counter and Lacazette score with ease. Rooney and Calvert-Lewin departed in exchange for Lookman and Niasse, a strange and desperate attempt by Koeman to give the kids a chance to rescue the game?
Sanchez seemed certain to score a fourth but he headed Bellerin's cross inches wide. Then Xhaka lashed a shot onto the cross-bar as Everton reeled. Arsenal were now having a laff, dancing around the Everton defence at will. Ramsey was the next to benefit, making it four.In a tragicomic moment, Niasse nicked a backpass off Cech's toes to score a simple second and meaningless goal that was hardly cheered by the rapidly emptying Goodison Park, before Sanchez smashed home a fifth.
A third home defeat in a row would and Everton into the bottom three put further unwelcome pressure on Ronald Koeman's beleagured and disnmtegrating tenure as manager.
Everton (3-5-2): Pickford; Keane, Jagielka, Williams [Y:31'] (46' Davies); Kenny, Gueye [Y:34'; YR:69'], Sigurdsson, Vlasic, Baines; Rooney (75' Lookman), Calvert-Lewin (75' Niasse).
Subs not Used: Robles, Mirallas, Martina, Klaassen.
Arsenal (3-4-3): Cech; Koscielny [Y:86'], Mertesacker, Monreal; Bellerín, Ramsey, Xhaka, Kolasinac; Özil (82' Coquelin), Sánchez, Lacazette (77' Wilshere).
Subs not Used: Macey, Giroud, Walcott, Holding, Iwobi.
Referee: Craig Pawson
Reader Comments (424)
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1 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:44:22
Poor Gana will get overrun by their midfield with very little support.
At the very least Davies needs to be in there with Gana and ideally another midfielder wholl graft.
I feel a big scoreline...
2 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:46:56
3 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:49:23
4 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:51:32
5 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:56:03
I can see a structure with this line up and we must wait and see how it works.
Ron has to get them fired up - get out there and fight from the first whistle, let them know we are right at them, get the crowd noisy and give Arsenal absolute hell.Can he do that- that's the biggest question for me.
6 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:57:23
The rest, well, it's narrow.
We're asking a lot of one very young full back and one pretty old full back. They almost need to do it by themselves.
7 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:58:03
8 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:00:17
After what he said in the week I wonder if we will play it long today?
9 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:01:34
Hopefully a win today and a good performances can be the catalyst to kick start our season but they players need to be up for it. Hope Koeman gives them a rocket up their ass before they go out as well and at half time. Time is running out for him.
10 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:04:44
11 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:05:30
12 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:06:39
13 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:07:14
I like Vlasic and he got on well with Kenny the time they played together on the right. They acted in support of each other, so I hope they carry that on.
Well, last night I thought we'd get battered. Today though, it looks we've got the makings of a team there. Arsenal might well beat us but, to me, it's much more how we play today. Do we have bottle? Do we get in their faces and let them iknow this will not be an easy game for them?
If the team show a bit of the oomph the same that they showed, for all to short a time, on Thursday, then we can win.
But above all, I want to see us fight for every ball, show the passion that they ought to show, playing for this club. The result is secondary in this game for me. I wanna see our teanm scare the S**t out of the opposition...not out opf us.
If the team show a similar
14 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:07:40
15 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:10:13
16 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:10:59
With my pessimistic hat on, I don't think the line-up matters that much, we're going to get absolutely fucking hammered. Looking at it more optimistically, Arsenal might not turn up.
18 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:16:34
21 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:51:00
22 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:52:41
23 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:16:48
24 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:17:24
25 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:23:00
Make no mistake, Arsenal will score at least one more here as we never fail to concede 2 or more against the top sides these days.
26 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:24:03
27 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:24:06
Sig will have covered similar miles but not really getting his foot on the ball... and at times we still have players on top of each other.
I'd consider Lookman or Kev for Sig.
How good is Vlasic?!!
Arsenal's one touch stuff is sublime. We'll need at least one more goal here.
28 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:29:45
29 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:32:18
Players can't understand the shape and its so easy for Arsenal.
HT, bring Williams off for Davis.
30 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:33:57
Some get off the seat moments from Everton too, including that mazy run from Vlasic.
But are problems are still glaringly obvious. Siggurdsson adds nothing whatsoever on the wing.. ( and in my opinion, not a great deal of played centrally either)... Put Mirallas or milkman out there..
Also take off a centre half and put another central midfielder on.. the five at the back is not working, and never has.
32 Posted 22/10/2017 at 14:55:14
Seems to have gone on for years . Pisses me right off.
33 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:04:10
35 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:17:23
36 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:19:50
37 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:21:34
38 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:27:07
39 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:28:17
2-5 at home!!!! Not even Joe Royle or Howard Kendall would have escaped criticism for a display like that. Time for a major shake up. Who coaches our defending? Get rid of the Klogg heads NOW!!!!!!
40 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:28:50
41 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:30:27
42 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:30:37
43 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:31:26
Players need an absolute rocket up the arse and stay behind after school to work on the basics. Sigurdsson is a complete waste of space.
44 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:31:47
It's a team devoid of confidence, shape, pattern or purpose. Sack Koeman? Possibly even definitely. But where do we go from there?
45 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:31:52
My phone didn't like Calvert-Lewin for a long time, but now it comes up as a shortcut option.
I've got nothing to say about the football, complete waste of time until Koeman goes.
46 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:32:23
Koeman only had himself to blame.
47 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:32:24
48 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:32:30
At least we could score plenty under Bobby and beat the top sides whilst keeping clean sheets such as 3-0 at home to Arsenal and Man Utd.
49 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:32:33
It's a Polish surname. "Yagielka" is the correct pronunciation as opposed to the anglicised "say it as it reads" version.
50 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:32:35
51 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:33:12
There's literally no case for his defence. Both his tactics and the standard of player are fucking dreadful... and he's responsible for both.
For fuck's sake. I'm not asking much to have some hope that we might do something within a few years. Yet every step forward; every time I think there's a possibility of something on the horizon, leads us to needing a complete overhaul.
How the fuck can we be in a relegation scrap? Are we really back here again?
52 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:35:03
53 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:35:26
Niasse must wonder why he's never allowed to start a game. Gueye revealed a degree of stupidity that was hard to credit. And if Sigurdsson is a 45 million footballer, then I'm an expert on the Icelandic sagas.
Koeman must be sacked. He must.
54 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:35:46
Whatever you think of Steve Claridge, he made the following points:
(1) He cannot think of 3 worse teams than Everton
(2) He can't see what Koeman is trying to do no system, players out of position etc.
(3) We are relegation candidates
(4) The crowd were expectant of such a performance / result and were resigned to the result.
Koeman has to go. I've said it for the past 6 weeks. I wanted Martinez out 18 months before Everton acted.
There are big flashing Danger signs and we need to turn this around. We must act now and fire him. Anything else is dereliction of duty.
55 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:37:10
56 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:37:33
You are right. We need a manager to mould them into a team, who know what they are doing, not a squad of individuals!!!
Apart from a 20-goal striker, all the other pieces are there.
Hopefully a statement one way or the other will be forthcoming later today. Put Koeman and Walsh out of their misery now.
57 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:38:49
Just had an awful thought that a ginger Scotsman will become manager. Not the Moyesiah, but Gordon Strachan!
58 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:39:15
And can people please stop championing Kenny. The games he's played so far have made him look like a fish out of water. Then again, he's not alone, is he?
Koeman's signings have been abysmal. Sigurdsson... words fail me; £45 million for that! Keane has got no awareness of what's going on around him...
Just 7 goals scored in 9 games. Leaking goals at an alarming rate and some fans say "Give him time"? Give him time by all means... but pay the price. And by that, I mean relegation.
59 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:39:19
60 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:40:00
Just listening to Pembridge talk now. He had far less talent than most of these muppets, but he'd not put in a performance that bad.
61 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:41:42
Change now and try to arrest this decline before it is too late. It still might not work, but at least we will have tried to do something about it!
62 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:41:54
63 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:42:50
64 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:42:58
One winger short
Yet I'd have masses of talent (and money) on the bench that don't fit a formation.
When you pick a straight forward 4-4-2, you start to see why Ron has done what he's done. Just no planning... made worse by insisting on picking the wrong team.
65 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:44:19
66 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:44:36
67 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:45:02
68 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:46:17
69 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:48:11
But god please no to Moyes, Big Sam, Royle et al we must surely be looking at more than this!
70 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:49:12
Benitez would be a dream candidate but, with a possible takeover at the Magpies, he is probably going nowhere.
It's no use whining and moaning. Look at the situation at the end of the year.
71 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:50:02
Carlo Ancelotti would be worth a poke till the end of the season. Would he want it longer than that?
72 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:51:12
The club need to step up and get rid of this clown today.
73 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:51:17
I can't see Koeman turning this around and I can't see the board giving him any more money to spend. Moyes probably would do better but would rather see Unsworth given a chance until we can sign a big name manager. Ancelotti would be my choice. But would he come??
74 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:53:16
To persist with a system that doesn't fit is simply football lunacy. And it defines football lunacy at that.
75 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:54:06
76 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:54:06
77 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:54:22
Koeman has lost the troops and time to go. Whether the signings were poor or not, we're only Lukaku down from last season so this has been wretched to watch.
78 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:54:30
79 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:54:52
Expect Moyes back to keep the team in the Premier League; the fans have no say even if it's 100% against Moyes coming back money is more important to the elites.
80 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:56:29
l feel sorry for players like Vlasic who are playing their hearts out with no support.
81 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:56:30
There is nothing more to be said now. We are in obvious danger and we look as though we are going to go down. It's as simple as that I'm afraid.
Radio Merseyside were reporting that Moshiri has again given Koeman his full backing. Hopeless.
82 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:56:39
Don't disagree with your analysis.
However, if they knew what the game plan was, we would have seen a tighter game with everybody playing as a team, not a bunch of headless individuals.
Niasse when he can get on 3
The rest 0
83 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:56:47
The Dutchman needs to go pronto but my bigger worry is who can turn this around. The players should hang their heads in shame too, they are far from devoid of responsibility and much more should be expected of such well paid professionals.
This is the worst I can remember things since Walter Smith.
84 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:56:54
85 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:57:29
86 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:57:33
My personal view is that Unsworth is best placed to undo the behind-the-scenes damage to culture, attitude and belief within the squad. These are the biggest problems Koeman has caused, in my opinion.
A manager from outside would come in cold to an environment needing much more than tactical coaching. That will have to wait for the future, if needed.
87 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:59:19
88 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:59:47
Goodbye Koeman and good riddance.
89 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:00:10
90 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:00:24
Everton are in the entertainment business and having a chairman who is supposed to be a leader in the entertainment business, he must be able see that if your leading actor fails your show will fail and you will quickly replace him. Bill, your club is failing to entertain do something about it.
91 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:01:28
92 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:03:40
Calvert-Lewin 10 for effort
Rooney -10 and fuck off
The rest 0
93 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:03:48
Rooney got that goal but he was giving the ball away and losing one on ones before and after he scored but he was shit really. No leaders on that pitch and shambolic defending from Keane, Jagielka and Baines.
One thing is certain though, and that is that Koeman has created chaos within the squad and he should have gone after Burnley. I couldn't believe the muffled boos at the end of the game. This guy is worse than Mike Walker without a doubt given the resources he's got.
Last word for Arsenal. Beautiful football to watch and if Wenger was after another challenge, I would be open to watching that kind of entertainment for a few years.
94 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:04:20
95 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:05:17
Big Sam's the man, for the rest of the season on a five million (pies) bonus to keep us up.
96 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:06:28
We are hurtling towards the trap door.
Big Sam and Sammy Lee for the rest of the season, then, when we are still in the premier league decide.
IMO we have gone past stick, we need to twist, whatever your view, Ronald Koeman is not the answer!!!
I'm getting stick from my son-in-law, Brighton, and my son Gillingham, and I don't have any means of defending myself.
So perhaps we should agree to disagree.
I'm on my second whisky and it's only 4pm!!!
97 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:06:52
God, I'd even have Moyes back as long as he was told that he was only here till we find someone better. But then again you couldn't trust blue Bill not to get rid.
98 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:07:03
The only solace is that it's so bad so early in the season and the right change could rescue us.
99 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:08:14
100 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:10:14
101 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:11:24
102 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:11:50
103 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:12:19
One fact stands out above all for me. The selection of Kenny. If Koeman believed he was the best right back currently available, then why has he steadfastly decided otherwise and sidelined Kenny, despite the clamour, for virtually all games to date? If, however, he chose him today because of the clamour but not actually believing he is the best right back, then shame on him for being such a coward and a fraud. (Niasse too.)
Either way he is a charlatan and a loser and a disgrace to be associated in any way with our great club. Go now. Go before I have completed this post.
105 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:13:34
No way of defending yourself?.
Have you told them that they have silly names for a boy?
106 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:14:44
107 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:15:08
Koeman is not resigning without a payout but who would. Dyche, Moyes, or big Sam to keep us up, may be. Unsworth a risk no Premier League experience. Stay as we are and hope for the best. Decision to be made but relegation is not a option. Financially it would kill us!
108 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:16:32
I'm not usually one for sacking managers so early in the season, but enough is enough. If I was Koeman, I'd be changing my mind about being the next coach of the Netherlands that would be his best option now.
109 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:18:16
Get Unsworth to step up for a couple of weeks to cover the next 4 games and then get Ancelotti in.
Also seen the rumours about Moyes. I didn't want him to leave but please no to getting him back!!
110 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:18:58
111 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:22:57
Well said, sir.
You actually brought a smile to my face, and then reality set back in 👍
112 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:24:32
Unfortunately, we will continue with the same trainer suffering in each game. It is clear that this era is over, but I do not think there is a change now.
I would like the return of David Moyes. I do not understand why there are fans who do not want their return to Everton. I am from Argentina and maybe there are things that at a distance I do not understand or I miss them. I believe that David Moyes is the man indicated although his last experiences were not good. David Moyes is Everton.
On the other hand, players are also responsible for this moment. I think they are not playing 100% because they want Ronald Koeman to leave. But I do not have the evidence to affirm that.
113 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:25:17
Unfortunatley, his head has fallen off and he doesn't know what he is doing. He has totally wasted at least £100 million on Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Ramirez and Keane... All 4 of them are very poor. Only at Everton.
What a fucking joke we are... Absolutely devastating.
114 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:28:49
115 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:28:59
Who is it thinking that Moyes's return is the answer? Damaged goods and a relegation doomsayer!
We could do worse than get the fella from Watford. Somehow, he gave Hull a chance and he has put Watford up the table!
If the real right man is not available then please can we go for the EFC trio and show Walsh the taxi rank!
116 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:29:01
I wouldn't advocate giving the job to Unsworth full time. The board should try and get Ancelotti (we can only ask) if not, it's Sean Dyche for me. He'll get the club and he's done a great job at Burnley given their resources, and much better than the other English contender, Eddie Howe, who has been propping up the table since Bournemouth got promoted.
117 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:30:05
118 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:33:04
I listened to an interview with Allardyce a few days ago when he said that the Leicester job wouldn't interest him. However he said that he would be tempted to manage another team if he found the challenge interesting. (I think he would be tempted by a national team manager's job.)
Personally I think he could be tempted by EFC... Make no mistake we are in big trouble and I can't see where next win is coming from (perhaps West Ham Utd). Having said that, I would only take Sam as a stop-gap and that may well be the sticking point.
119 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:36:11
120 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:37:33
Evertonians were once amongst the most knowledgeable fans in the world. When something wasn't right or a player wasn't good enough, they knew it and they said so.
Times have changed... mediocrity is applauded. The cost of a player now seems to impress a large proportion of the fanbase more than the quality.
You don't need to leave these pages for clear evidence of fans rejoicing in the signing of ordinary players for over-inflated prices. Players like Schneiderlin and Gana are seen as top class and those who don't see it are branded "negative doom mongers". Try to explain to people that they go to ground too often to play top class football and they will deny it. Give them examples and they will deny it more vehemently.
Criticise the manager and you are a "rotten apple". It doesn't seem to matter that we are the ugliest team in the league, if you criticise the manager and call for more, you are seen as a miserable bastard... You have to support this dross to be a "positive ".
I don't know what happened to this club, but sometimes I hear comments from Evertonians in the name of positivity and I could weep. How can a player, a manager and an owner know how badly they are doing when so many fans are telling them they are delighted with our "progress"?
I've had it with people telling me "the season starts now" when we have been knocked out of both cups. I've had it with people making ridiculous claims of a defensive masterclass at the Etihad because Man City missed a dozen chances.
I've had it with experts telling me they haven't been this excited for years. I've had it with people telling me we need Ronald Koeman to attract top players and I've had it with listening to people telling tell me that those who voice concern about performances, signings and the soul of the club being eroded are in some way Negative.
I really don't mind happy clappers getting the club they deserve, in fact I think there is something poetic about it... but by letting the chairman, the manager and the board know how delighted they are, they have ensured the rest of us are lumbered with this nightmare too.
121 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:39:44
We cannot play a back five with Kenny who isnt ready yet and Baines ( who along with Sigurdsson) the worst player on the pitch
We cannot play a back four without 2 defensive midfielders
We cannot play gueye and Schneiderlin as 2 defensive midfielders as they cannot defend and just invitevpressue by offering nothing going forward ( though gueye was a little better unshackled from Shneiderlin today)
DCL worked his tripe out today but the fact remains he is a CF who doesnt score.
We cannot play Sigurdsson- sick of hearing how he is a class player out of position. The game passes him by time after time.
Rooney has scored 5 of our measly goal tally but needs players running off him or he is slow and ponderous.
Vlasic was good despite rick for goal
Pick a formation , pick a team of players in their correct positions to fill that formation. Give them a run without changing every game ( during every game)
122 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:39:50
Our big time days have gone. For whatever reason we have not been able to keep up and at times been hanging on by our finger tips. We haven't been able to even challenge our city rivals since the birth of this media-driven league so let's get real: we are a Moyes, Pulis maybe Dyche type of club.
Maybe Unsworth is the answer but if we go down the road of more Martinez/Koeman types god help us.
123 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:40:17
It occurs to me that as a newcomer to the game, Moshiri will be loathe to admit he made a mistake with Koeman although he may well be under pressure from Kenwright to sign up Moyes whilst he's available.
Whatever the outcome, the brave new Everton we dreamed of has blown away with Hurricane Brian this afternoon and we can now settle down to six or seven months with the slide rule and crystal ball.
Oh, and a decent size prayer mat might come in useful, too.
124 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:42:28
The board can't drag there heels any longer.
125 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:42:49
126 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:42:59
127 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:43:04
This dour Dutchman has sucked the life out of the club.
P. S. I think his sacking will be announced tomorrow on the Jim White show.
128 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:43:45
Absolutely in despair this evening, our club is a laughing stock but I should be giving them 100% support and not criticise or demand more/better of them.
4:43pm and still no news, absolute joke!
129 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:43:46
130 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:45:22
132 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:47:23
Oh, and I want Koeman fired too, but really, I want BK and Moshiri gone as well and replaced with real ownership, like City enjoy.
133 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:48:00
A manager who reaches seventh by playing dire football with a top goalscorer now spends over £100m and gives us a shapeless, clueless mess with no hint of a change.
This is a decent enough squad that needs at least one better striker. I think the players we bought will look better under the next manager.
Steve Claridge's comments on 5Live were significant, coming from a journeyman ex-pro and low-level manager.
Darren, you're right. If we don't change now, we really do have the set-up we deserve.
134 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:49:21
While not fully blaming the players there are serious problems with the hierarchy which has turned us into a laughing stock by totally ignoring the obvious deficiencies in the whole structure,starting of course with a manager who was clearly not up to his job
The biggest problem, unless the present individual is sensationally allowed to carry on, is who will replace him???
135 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:50:09
You know the end must be close when you see your team outplayed, out thought and even – heaven forfend – out muscled by Arsenal.
To be fair today, Koeman played Kenny from the start, he dropped Schneiderlin, he tried a back 3 and changed to a back for when he saw that this was failing too so he really is trying. The problem is that everything he tries fails. I have a feeling that he is on the verge of the sack now but I don't like where the money is going on his replacement. Possibly as assistant to Unsy but not as manager.
I don't think that I've seen Everton worse than they are now since the late 50's, how can this moron of a man have achieved this?
136 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:51:58
As for the players. Fuck me, what can you say about that utterly gormless, shameless, overpaid pack of sad specimens.
137 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:52:33
And if Koeman goes then Walsh should as well because he's just as blameworthy for leaving us with an unbalanced squad and short of quality strikers. Get Tuchel on the phone and get him in asap because I can't stomach much more of this manager.
138 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:53:26
139 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:54:11
As much as I dislike him, he does have the ear of Moshiri!
Can you get him to become a TW contributor and then we may get more info from the centre.
Unlikely but worth a try?
140 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:54:37
141 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:56:01
When Newcastle were relegated in 2009 it was a shock. They had decent players, but the club was a shambles at the top. There was discontent between the manager and director of football regarding transfers. Of course in that case the manager resigned.
But relegation was never even a remote possibility when the season started. Week after week, it just got worse and worse. That is the situation I see unfolding here. I think we are in massive trouble.
I can not name a worse Premier League side. Yes, Crystal Palace and Bournemouth are below us, but I've seen Palace play much better games than us. Either way, doesn't matter which is worse. The bottom three all go down and we are undoubtedly one of the worst three clubs in the league.
142 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:56:15
Maybe the club needs that kind of trauma to jump-start its heart again.
144 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:57:03
145 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:57:41
146 Posted 22/10/2017 at 16:58:21
The Moshiri - Kenwright - Koeman trio is the complete antithesis of the Holy Trinity.
149 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:01:34
Pickford was the pick of our lot but that must be a problem when the goalkeeper is our best. Three at the back doesn't work and after saying all season that Kenny isn't ready he picks him against the slickest passing team in the League. To beat three across the back merely play somebody wide, from what I've seen it works everytime except for "Honest" Ron.
Calvert-Lewin is played wide and our only outlet seems to be high balls to him isolated on on the touchline. Niasse may not be the world's best footballer but he is at least a presence that keeps the opposition central defenders busy and concerned.
Is there a positive? Only the defensive midfielders getting forward to help in attack. After arguments with Eire over McCarthy's fitness why would he start before Davies?
I could go on but the hearts been knocked out of it, he should be sacked now but may be Thursday after the European exit (Evexit?) and Unsworth with his own choice of a No.2, can't be Royle after the Niasse leak nor Ferguson who would be no help at all. Can't remember being more resigned to Everton's pathetic failures.
151 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:03:25
What did surprise me was there were little or no cheers for players when the squad was called out. Think that is first time I have noticed that. Although last game at home against Burnley you could hear what the players were shouting to each other for a while.
Koeman out now!!!!!
152 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:04:08
153 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:04:54
I had planned to go to a couple of games after Christmas. I won't now.
155 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:06:39
156 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:08:55
158 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:15:01
160 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:15:31
I admit I thought RK was a good appointment at the time, but he is now a busted flush.
We all make mistakes. The Board has made one. The measure of a decision-maker is what they do to rectify their errors.
It's sad but we need a change of manager.
161 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:16:04
162 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:16:22
Yes I think there must be as I appear to be using the name Ray Smith.
What the hell is wrong with me?
163 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:17:08
Make no mistake, we are going down unless action is taken very soon.
164 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:17:42
Some of our fans are the the most gullible supporters on the planet and can't see a problem until it smacks them in the face. Well, guys, you're being smacked in the face now. Anyone who steps foot in Goodison again while Koeman is here deserves everything they get. Withdraw the support that is all we have left now.
165 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:19:20
Koeman changes the formation at halftime and doesn't substitute Gana who despite being, in my opinion, our best player, was absolutely a red card waiting to happen.
Those are simply unforgivable managerial errors. We had actually played, again in my opinion, really well in the first half. The changes stunk to high heaven of a man throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick. Along with a braindead decision to not either remove or protect Gana. Why do you leave him exposed in a 4-4-2 on a yellow with the way he plays on a yellow?
Koeman simply HAS to go this evening. He has to. There is no longer any other option. Farhad has to be willing to spend the money to make the bold move and change.
Unsworth, as I've said previously, is my pick money aside. I think he'll be a revelation. Money IN the equation, appointing him will help mitigate the financial outlay as you don't have to spend millions to replace Koeman.
166 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:20:17
I actually think McCarthy is a better player than Gana and Schneiderlin and has been missed although his presence may not have changed some results.
Vlasic and Calvert-Lewin will be part of this team looking forward but some of the others are treading water, such as Williams and Baines. Keane is also struggling.
Kenny is not yet ready and Holgate hasn't improved to the level expected.
If Koeman is still here for the Chelsea game, he will ring in the changes again... but can we reasonably expect to beat a Chelsea team of second stringers?
Most teams are rubbing their hands at the prospect of playing Everton at the moment.
167 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:20:33
But what I do remember of those past sides, I've never felt so strongly of impending disaster for this club. I think the longer we have Ronald Koeman as our manager, the chances of us going into the championship increase exponentially, IF he stays unti January, I think we will have well and truely had it.
169 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:21:12
I do feel that many of the players he's bought are decent players, they have shown that for their previous teams. They don't become bad players overnight. The team is sorely lacking in confidence and that is down to the manager.
170 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:22:58
171 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:23:47
Why do you think Koeman won't go?
Is it years of seeing us "ride it out?" A lack of confidence in brass?
I think he's done tonight. I see no other option losing 2-5 at home.
172 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:23:51
The team and whole squad play like complete strangers. No-one seems to know their role or where their colleagues are. I think we have a number of quality players but they need some sort of plan. They need managing.
Come on Mr Moshiri enough is enough, do the right thing now before we reach the point of no return.
173 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:24:42
174 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:27:37
175 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:29:02
No to Howe.
176 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:29:35
Given internal step ups NEVER succeed in the premiership (always sacked midway through their first full season in charge), I would like us to protect Unsy -and the Academy by not giving him the permanent job.
So as a novel idea, pay what it takes to hire a manager from one of the top five clubs in England, France, Germany, Spain or Italy. The one condition must be that they have won a trophy in the last three years with that club.
178 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:33:20
It will take a genius to save us from the drop this time, especially as the club is the worst run in the premiership, amateurs from top to bottom.
179 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:33:49
Seriously now, we go to Chelsea in mid-week, they'll probably play a weaker team, but still too strong for us at the moment. We'll get another drubbing. And then, on to Leicester, who are as trigger-happy as we're slow off the mark. And then, and then, what? Do we get to hear again, on Radio Merseyside, that Moshiri is still behind the cheesehead??
Finally, for all of you bemoaning the hiriring of someone like Sam Allardyce - let's call him by his proper name, for a change - beggars can't be choosers. As of today, we are definitely in a relegation scrap, if we don't get rid of RK soon. Allardyce may have announced his retirement, but we are still a big pull for a man such as him, and he could steer us well clear of trouble, which is what we need now. And then, in the close-season, try to get someone like Silva in, or the other Portuguese guy, the one at Shakhtar Donetsk. Or even give the job to Allardyce on a permanent basis.
Mutley, do something!!
180 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:34:18
I think Unsy will buck the promoted manager trend being sacked quickly. I think he's going to be a fantastic manager some day.
You make good points, but the only question needing to be answered when you say get a manager from a top team in a big league is:
Who would leave a top 4-5 team in Germany, Italy, or Spain to come to a 18th placed Premier league side?
No one with a brain!
181 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:35:15
182 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:35:46
The new manager, whoever it is, must realise what dross he's been left with Williams, Jagielka, Baines, Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Ramirez and Besic, and about 3-4 youngsters are nowhere near ready to do it consistently in Premier League, Holgate, Kenny, Vlasic, and Lookman, even Davies is struggling again.
I do fear we will have an almighty battle to get out of the bottom 6 this season.
183 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:35:47
I have stopped betting on Everton to lose, I now bet on Everton to lose by more than 1 goal.
I'm getting rich but I can't take it to the grave and that is where Keoman et al is, prematurely, sending me.
I want Big Sam, perfect! He rescues teams from relegation and I believe there is more about him. Yes of course Sean Dyche would be fantastic but he is currently plying his trade at a more successful club.
Only Big Sam knows how to rescue teams; he is the Red Adair ( showing my age again) of the EPL.
184 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:36:12
Then next season, a younger more ambitious manager with some vision to kick us on. So a Big Sam type comes in tomorrow, and a Martinez type (for want of a better word.. sorry!) at the end of the season.
185 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:37:57
You could say the players are utterly gormless, shameless, overpaid pack of sad specimens...
And you'd be right.
186 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:39:26
Tony, though, if he is not sacked tomorrow, what do we do? Seriously, what is the answer? I would not be surprised to see Moyes back. I think it would be beyond belief but possible considering that Bill Kenwright clings to power.
187 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:40:27
I can't see him improving our position and, as he will not resign, it is up those in charge, if they care, to remove him post haste.
188 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:42:44
We are going to be relegated!
189 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:46:34
Thank God for Pickford, they could have 15.. I've no honest expectation any more about the match only that the say in the pub to the last minute syndrome has come back, such is the burden of watching this garbage.
The confidence is shot and the reality is we look certain to go down. I'm struggling to say anything, but all on TW, know for sure, that the club has got to have a crisis plan to kick in soon.
January won't save us, it's too late and whose gonna want to play for us? SOS is needed now.
190 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:47:25
The continued dismal performances really twist the knife and offer absolutely no indication that improvement is on the horizon before Christmas.
My drive back to London will be a miserable one.
191 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:48:33
Absolutely correct, the only problem is those poor folk who have bought season tickets. The answer though is they also need to not go. The only acceptance of mediocrity is to go.
The problem then is should you have a say if you don't go?
Relegation? Yes, this is how it happens when whatever you do you keep losing. Newcastle and Sunderland are examples. Really painful watching the excellent Spurs.
192 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:48:39
193 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:49:51
194 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:53:09
195 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:53:32
What's not to like? Come on down!
196 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:54:00
Unless we start aspiring to be a big club again we will never become one. That's why Koeman needs to go a we need to get a better manager, a bigger name who has WON a trophy with a top club.
197 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:55:00
It will take Moses parting that Channel thingy separating you and mainland Europe to get either of those men to Everton.
If we fire Koeman, it's a big financial hit. I understand you're comment regarding ambition, but I just don't realistically think it'll ever happen. That's not me lowering the bar, it's me trying to assess the landscape and what is actually possible.
If you're right and I'm wrong, make no mistake I'll be as happy as a pig in shit.
198 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:55:12
199 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:55:21
200 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:55:45
Nothing will change until the fan base at Everton wake the fuck up. We have been conned and kidded for decades and just take it as being the norm.
I am refusing to go the game until there's a change. If everyone did the same, things would change quickly. Kenwright has got the blue half of Merseyside dangling on a string.
I still believe we don't have the money to sack Koeman, pay him off and employ a new guy on big money. Hence why Rigid Ron is still here.
201 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:56:19
That's suggesting it's more the players than the manager, that he's sometimes got a team on the pitch including up to 7 duds. I'm not sure about that at all.
And Davies didn't struggle today, in my view.
202 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:57:25
203 Posted 22/10/2017 at 17:58:54
Even when I pointed out to this Steve that Ancellotti had won five league titles in five of the world's strongest leagues, he wasn't entirely convinced.
205 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:01:05
I reckon we could hire Tuchel next week if we wanted to. For Ancelotti, offer him a bomb to manage us till the end of the season and see where it goes.
206 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:01:41
Colin, spot on, it's a far cry from the 60s and 80s. But the media commentary on Liverpool is childish, as if they were still a top club. They're not much less shite than us.
I think there's some over-reaction regarding rekegation, it's as if we've got 9 games left rather than 9 games into the season. So long as Koeman is shown the door pronto, there's every chance we'll move up the table, because there's a good squad of players there who's talents are being squandered by dreadful mismanagement.
207 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:01:43
A very hard-fought first half full of passion, effort, and guile. We're in it. We've played well.
Second half, we switch to a 4-4-2. Gueye in midfield on a yellow. Now why in the world would you leave Gueye, who can't help himself but fly into tackles, in a 2-man midfield formation on a yellow!!
He has zero protection against a team infamously known for moving the ball beautifully and quickly. Why do you do that?? That is a managerial error without question. Exposing your most aggressive midfielder on a yellow in a two man midfield set up against Arsenal?? Madness.
The players are not near to blame as much as Ronnie in this one, in my opinion.
208 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:03:59
"The problem is then should you have a say if you don't go" (to watch the team).
Read that back to yourself, Martin: well it's never stopped you!!!!!
209 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:04:37
A few short weeks ago, you were lambasting the critics and claiming you saw "nothing but positives".
Were you stating the "bleeding obvious" then?
No wonder you are talking so much about "hindsight" recently – you're an expert.
210 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:06:57
I pray Kenwright clings to power because, if it's up to Moshiri, I fear things will become even worse.
211 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:13:34
212 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:15:00
At the start of the season, I saw nothing but positives given the new financing and the players bought. Of course it wasn't with the benefit of hindsight or stating the obvious, use your brain man.
I still see positives overall but I would say that the club has made two serious mistakes which are easy to see with the benefit of the hindsight that you wallow in. The first is obviously Koeman, the second is the Director of Football position. The manager must be responsible for the players the club recruits or he has no accountability.
213 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:21:46
As Arsenals fifth goal went in, the clubs owner Farhad Moshiri was photographed in the directors box sitting alongside the chairman Bill Kenwright, who held his head in his hands. Meanwhile, one of his guests in the box turned to the press area immediately behind it and shouted “Taxi for Koeman. Hes got to go tonight. If not sooner.” As votes of confidence go it was not the most visibly robust.
214 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:25:21
215 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:30:03
216 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:30:44
Weve still plenty of time to turn this around (remember the 1-0 against Sunderland a few years ago in December when we looked doomed?) but Koeman needs replacing ASAP to give the next manager time to see whos who.
217 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:32:28
However I do find it difficult to understand how anyone could seriously be happy with Allardyce, Moyes (God forbid) or even Dyche.
If Moshiri is genuinely intent on returning our club to the elite he has got to be looking at the level of Ancelotti or Tuchel, the yardstick of £6m p.a. will certainly prove attractive enough. Benitez has too much baggage from his RS days. Unsworth's time may come but it's certainly not now.
218 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:35:21
I don't a this moment think its fair to give the job to David Unsworth. There is too much pressure and too much to sort out on the field, make him assistant manager by all means if that's possible.
I said before and I'll say it again get Big Sam in, he's a perfect fit for the situation were in.
Give him a 18 month contract at the same or even more than Koemans on and promise him £50m to spend in January.
There's no time to get a foreign manager in who's no Idea what you need to manage in the Premiership, its too risky.
Will Allardyce come, I think so if we make the offer attractive enough, desperate times calls for desperate measures if your inclined to think having Allardyce as manager is desperation
It would be a disaster to go down but I think we have enough quality especially with a couple more signings and the injured players back for selection.
Plus add Barkley who I think will sign a new contract once Koemans gone.
219 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:37:47
221 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:39:32
222 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:40:34
Was Kenwright laughing when Arsenal knocked a 5th in ?
Yes he's shifty but ffs when we have looked like relegation material he's pulled the trigger will Moshiri ?
223 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:40:47
I have said all along the inclusion of Rooney is stopping us into progressing into a settled side, so many changes each match leading to confusion.
Very few came out of this today with much credit
DCL lead the line very well yet again a real talent. Vlasic showed dome great dribbling control in the first half be gave away costly balls in the second, but believe he is a real find.
Pickford kept the score down.
As for Keane sadly he looks a waste of money and so slow .if you watch his efforts in their goals.
How much money have we spent and hardly anything looking likely to show.
224 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:40:50
225 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:41:24
226 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:43:55
David, thanks for that. I knew it was a Steve.
227 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:51:54
Everything being said right now, has already been said over the last few weeks, but its simple really, and if we dont get rid of Koeman now, then relegation could easily happen.
I usually think that only an idiot, could mutter that word, after less than a quarter of the games have been played, but this is so different because Everton are not playing like a TEAM, in any shape or form.
Imagine your child going to a new school, and getting a different maths teacher every lesson? because this is whats happening to our players right now.
All this chopping and changing of both the players and the system, is destroying us, and how can anyone build up either understanding or momentum, under these present circumstances?
228 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:52:10
Tony March #200
Why do you keep banging on about Everton not having the cash to let Koeman go? Of course they do, for fuck sake Everton don't even have to pay him off, just stick him on gardening leave with a huge shovel for his weekly wedge. Job fucking done.
RK is gone, make no bones about it, but the bottom line is that there is plenty wrong at Goodison Park. I mean Klaassen at 24 million and Siggy shite at 45 million, well those two transfers should get the serious fraud squad knocking your front door down.
229 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:52:13
By the way, is Koeman still there?
This has to be the most drawn out inquisition, since they stopped using the rack.
Maybe Moshiri and BPB, can't lift their feet high enough to kick him out.
230 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:52:23
231 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:57:07
Do managers ever do the decent thing and resign?
He comes out with bland, passionless “thats football” comments after another inept performance from the team HE assembled at quite a cost.
I know none of this media / PR Shiite is worth a piss but is that the best he has got? If so, he should be embarrassed / ashamed.
He spent quite a bit of time on his hols / golf course over the summer by all accounts while we still had no striker. Team selection, game management etc are shambolic.
Everything smacks of complacency at EFC and I fear our mediocrity is in our DNA (to coin our recent marketing gimmick).
To answer my own question, it is so obvious this clown is hanging on for the pay-off. Hes as big a fraud as the last bell-end.
Show some class and decency and get out of our club now. But he has none - so wont budge.
(I dread the crappy sound bites we are going to be fed this week. They sound thinner and more disingenuous every time.)
232 Posted 22/10/2017 at 18:57:45
Are these people actually watching our games ?
Are they seeing every single player devoid of every shred of confidence ?
This is a team in serious desperate trouble. A team in freefall. There is not one single plus point not a single sign of improvement. No fight, no cohesion, no plan, tactically inept.
We do not have the players or mentality to dig ourselves out of a relegation battle. Our squad would just fold. The support are already showing signs of stupor and acceptance.
I keep saying it but losing becomes a habit.
To anyone who thinks we can't go down just have a look and truthfully see where and against whom we can pick up any points
233 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:00:07
234 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:01:31
Sounds extreme I know but when I think of the countless hours spent watching mind numbing boring football over the last 15 years or so, I wonder why I actually bother.
Is it fun? No. Entertaining? 99% of the time No. Do I learn anything? No. Makes me angry? Yes. Cost me money? Yes. Running out of excuses to justify spending my time on this shite.
Even in the dark days of the 90s I expected us every season to turn the corner and at least do well in the FA cup. Now Im just getting more and more apathetic. You just know with the likes of Kenwright and Elston running the club, nothings really going to change.
I dont even get angry anymore. 15 years of continually managing expectations down have gotten us to the point of abject apathy. No protests today, just resigned acceptance of the situation after a couple of boos.
This is not the Everton I started supporting in the early 80s.
235 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:04:26
236 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:05:37
May go some way to explaining the lack of action thus far.
237 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:06:06
238 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:06:27
239 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:06:55
240 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:07:09
241 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:07:51
You live in Masonworld, a world where you think its ok to lambast anyone for criticising the manager one minute then somewhat bizarrely do a complete volte face and declare your "hatred" for him.
You have no clue what people are doing, but by declaring there disapproval both on here and at the game. They are registering a protest. These protest are part of a collective movement and they will go all the way to Moshiri and therefore some way to hastening the departure of Koeman .
Everyone who has voiced his dissatisfaction will see his efforts rewarded.
243 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:12:08
It is embarrassing to be a supporter at the moment because this team gives nothing of which we can be proud. When we have to cite the U 23s and U 18s as reasons to be cheerful it shows how poor the first team is.
Yes the players should be ashamed of themselves- we are talking about experienced international in Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Klaassen and they appear to be hiding. They all need to get a grip and earn their wages- they are a disgrace to the club.
That said the manager appears utterly clueless how to set up his side and I genuinely wonder what he does in training all week as there appears to be no semblance of a pattern of play during a game. I don't like to see people lose their jobs but I really can't see any reason to keep Ronald and his alienation of players and apparent inability to inspire them let alone his inability to connect with the club all point to an inevitable parting of the ways.
244 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:15:59
My friends are Brighton fans, they are good fans and don't suffer from the poison that accompanies top sides that have fallen like our fan base does.
Darren, remind me again what you do about our poor performances? Does it begin with a "W".
I'm still staying positive because unlike you Darren the board actually has to do something about it. I trust that they will, I know that you can't and won't.
I don't want Koeman to be sacked because I don't want us to give the Moron £10.00MM for abject failure.
245 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:16:01
Everton 2 Liverpool 1
It looks a lot better when you write it like that. What price is Klopp for the sack?
246 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:16:09
A fella was talking on Radio Merseyside, after the game saying that Everton are no longer a big club. If we dont sack Koeman now, then who could disagree with such ineptitude?
247 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:16:17
Premiership survival is essential and defence is the first priority. So a one-year contract to someone who can organise a defence at this level - why not Moyse? - and source a long-term appointment then.
248 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:17:10
249 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:19:30
250 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:21:31
Mosh needs to grow a pair and unload Koeman. Ignore letters and emails that say Everton are in 3rd place if you turn the table upside down
251 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:21:46
John, I'm many decades older than 2 or 3 but small - take me in your arms and let's both get banned.
252 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:22:07
Kenwright also should be shown the door. He has presided over the worst 20 years in the clubs history and it will continue while he is there bending Moshiris ear. Its certain he will want Moyes back as he did when Martinez went.
253 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:22:42
Just ask Sunderland fans how Moyes is in a relegation fight.
254 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:23:21
Surely there is no way back from this disaster. Unsworth can only do better than this!
What a let down!!
255 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:25:05
If David Moyes ever becomes manager of this club again, after 42 years of support I will throw in the towel. I will keep to my word, I didn't go for 4 years while Moyes was manager.
256 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:25:07
Agreed, and he is a much worse manager now than in his time at Everton. He has lost it.
257 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:26:52
You don't need a lifetime ban anyway, because Koeman will be gone soon. Not soon enough for me, incidentally.
The best but painful measure for a lot of us, is to stop going to a couple of matches, but do it in numbers, a handful will have little or no impact.
I know it's hard for a season ticket holder having shelled out, and not to go, but trust me, it's more painful to keep watching, week after week, the inept displays after spending what we could only have dreamed of, for so long, and so many lean spells.
It's almost a Catch 22 situation, football being a money orientated animal these days, unless there is a noticeable change in attendances, very little will happen.
258 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:28:00
259 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:28:02
260 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:28:35
We are in deep shit and our only priority should be to get rid of the manager and stop the rot - if possible.
Nobody could be worse than this clown.
But hey, according to some leave him in and when it gets so bad bin him. When 6 games to go ?? 10 games ?
This guy will never change. He can't change. Apparently one of the best defenders the world has seen can't organise a defence.
The longer we leave this the more difficult to get out of the shit.
261 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:29:34
262 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:30:50
263 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:32:59
264 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:33:23
Whatever you say, Martin. Whatever you say.
265 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:33:35
266 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:34:27
267 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:34:57
268 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:36:30
If not I vote the wee man to take over from Koeman, he surely could do a better job !
269 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:37:26
It is the worst 20 years in Evertons history, fact.
Its you that is trying to rewrite history.
270 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:37:44
Youre absolutely full of it and this site should do something about you. BK joined the Board in 1989. He then maneuvered to seize total power in 1999. During his nearly 30 years on the Board and nearly 20 years owning the club and as chairman, Everton Football Club has faded into obscurity. No league titles since he joined the Board. No trophies since he became Chairman.
Those Martin, those are facts. We are still in the same decrepit stadium while clubs both below and above us have moved into new stadiums. We are now in the relegation places.
271 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:40:03
272 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:40:06
273 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:40:09
274 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:41:07
275 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:43:01
Which part of you is positive ? the bit where you call people who criticise the manager "whingers" or the bit where you tell us you yourself have been on to him all along and he is useless ?
Perhaps its the part of you who hates Koeman (a truly bizarre statement) . .or maybe it the bit that want to see him given more time.
who knows ? but when somebody wants to represent all sides of the house, its generally because they are looking for argument rather than debate.
Still as long as your positive eh ?
276 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:44:30
Re Everton - Id let Unsie take the reins now while we do a proper job of selecting the next man. Unsie would set us up right for the dog fights we need to win to avoid relegation and he wouldnt owe any of the Koeman signings any loyalty to shovel them all into the same side. If he can get Barkley back on board we have the players to finish lower mid table and see what next year brings.
If £10m is the cost of losing Koeman then so be it! Id rather that than let him spend £10m on another number 10 come January!
277 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:45:45
279 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:51:08
280 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:51:24
282 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:51:52
If he continues to do well 'til the end of the season give him a further two years at the helm.
If he hasn't done well enough by the January window, during which time the board (don't laugh) should have identified Koeman's replacement, then get the new man in and give HIM the necessary funds.
The most important thing IMO is to have options, or a plan for options, something which we've been shit at a la Giroud.
283 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:52:08
They used to have a saying in the States, that the consumer is king, and in all fairness to the Americans, they appreciated the sheer power that people possessed by sheer numbers, and also Americans would boycott in numbers, purchasing products that had a huge price hike for no apparent reason, other than profit.
I draw a parallel from that, to what is happening at our Club now.
285 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:52:52
So we're in the top 20 based on turnover, and successful as a company, trophies not being the measure of success. Well, the annual statement of accounts must be your FA cup final. I bet you have all the videos of those accounts. All signed by Bill.
286 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:53:57
287 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:54:08
Unsworth for me. Played at the top level, won a trophy, played for Everton. Coach at Everton. So he knows the club and the players inside out (a big help).
Successful coach. U23s won the Premier League 2. Brought through many good players. First team played great when he was care taker boss. No compensation, not a huge wage.
We've tried fancy dan foreign managers and it hasn't worked, time for a change.
If Konman isn't gone by tomorrow I'll be livid.
288 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:55:58
I agree that 'the People's Club' slogan does show a diminishing ambition and outlook - and it was David Moyes, after all, who first uttered it, which rhymes with his announcement on being appointed Sunderland manager that they would be in a relegation scrap! Not that the good people of Merseyside who support Everton have anything wrong about them, of course, but it all sounds like a once great, proud club, now branding itself as some sort of Millwall FC (bar the 'bad temper', thank God).
289 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:57:27
I am very happy to be called a whinger I've spent the past year whinging about this manager would hate to think nobody noticed. . not sure how one screams on the internet though . . perhaps its because I simply think he is a crap manager and want him gone and cant bring myself to "hate" him like you do
290 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:57:34
Some posters say that he has done nothing illegal and has made a legitimate profit.True, however, I would suggest that he is, and I do not say this lightly, not an Evertonian. He is, in my view, a fantasist who has dragged our club down.
291 Posted 22/10/2017 at 19:57:38
294 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:05:32
KEEP KOEMAN, BECAUSE HE DOESNT DESERVE HIS PAY-OFF? Lets carry on with him in charge, and hope that we dont get relegated, because that would cost the club, a fucking fortune.
There would then be no need to build a new ground, even though your mate Bill, has let Goodison, go to ruin, but you actually still feel quite positive?
No wonder I call you the duke mate, talking heads on ToffeeWeb, screaming “stop making sense”!
296 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:11:29
297 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:12:01
300 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:14:27
However one positive springs to mind. Should you have an extra long tongue I suppose you could remain in your seat at half time while your tongue whiles its way to the food stall to devour a tasty pie.
One negative though, should you ever guest on "Who Do You Think You Are" you may have to be on at least 3 shows as your ancestors go back about 300 million years.
301 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:15:01
This was the biggest mistake those in control made.
Koeman tried to convince Lakuka to stay ( more so than the board ) , but Lukaku wanted to leave and he and his agent expected Kenwright and co to keep their gentlemans agreement which we all know was if Everton did not qualify for CL he would be allowed to leave if a CL club bid what the club valued him at which was £100 million and they couldn't even get that right !
Koeman is blameless for this , but he's not for the mess we are in right now , he's the manager and he has to find a way to compete but the selections are all over the place.
For me , he has to field a side for a period that will at least get to know what the fuck they are doing!
He has switched and changed so many times desperately trying to find a formula that works that it is having the opposite effect.
Today's game changed with our two bookings , Williams and especially Gueye both players are on their tip toes after being booked and this really stifled Gueyes effectiveness .
The ref seemed to be falling over himself to please Sanchez who should have been booked for his continued winding up ar every free kick we got ( obviously a game plan to put Sigurdsson off ).
No excuse for lying down and in the end that's we did today.
Never was there a more true statement in football that you find out who wants to play for the club when you are 3 nil down other than 3 nil up.
Senior players that are past it.
Baines , Jags , Rooney , Mirallas , Williams ( at least the latter two will get stuck in ) but that's not enough.
Players not good enough.
Martina ,Sandro , Lookman , Niasse , Schneirdln ,
Still to prove their worth.
All the rest.
I think we will find again we are a selling club come January if it's true that Arsenal are will to pay 30 million for Gueye.
303 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:21:04
That is a great point. Another positive to being a reptile would be financially. You hardly have to eat, that would save money at the grocers.
But alternatively you are in a very vulnerable state immediately after eating that massive meal and when shedding skin.
But flip that again, free skin treatments!!! Imagine what the Khardashians would pay to have a natural facial every month or so!!
305 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:23:00
I was one of the supporters who did not want Martinez hired but was surprised how he started but was glad when he was found out and fired. In Koemans case I was happy he was hired but now it seems he has shown up quickly he is just as bad as Martinez ended up being, and I cant see him turning things around.
I may now live in Canada but I get to see every game through various links. M y support of Everton started in 1952 when I played on Goodison as a schoolboy and continued onto the boys pen then to Gladys Street and finally as a season ticket holder in the paddock.
As I stated I now live in Canada and have spent a lot of money coming back and forth always during the football season and have seen some some good and bad managers but I think Koeman alongside maybe G.Lee that has been poor from the start, and I now believe if the board don't react quickly, they are burying their heads in the sand and could end up as the first board to oversee Everton relegated.
As supporters we can only write up complaining and some of you may stop going to the game, but to be honest, if I still lived in Liverpool, as a supporter I would still go. The only thing we can hope for is for the owner and chairman to realize how bad the situation is and rectify it sooner than later.
307 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:24:25
That questions not in relation to your post Bill.
308 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:25:52
I believe a certain someone did imply that, yes.
309 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:27:22
310 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:28:34
Perhaps he goes in spirit? Maybe he is there, channeled into the aura of Kenwright?
311 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:30:57
312 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:31:07
314 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:31:51
315 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:33:43
316 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:34:50
Is it true hes the same kid who had a go at Nyarko all those years ago?
318 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:37:18
I and others have said this for years:
While Bill hangs around the club the toxin will never be purged.
Hence I argue, if it gets rid of that old luvvie parasite and his entourage once and for all, I would not just tolerate relegation. I would embrace it.
319 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:37:36
My mate, a lifelong Gooner messaged me to say that he never looks forward to them going to Goodison, but today we were the worst he's ever seen in 40 years of watching Arsenal play us and that it was so easy for them he couldn't believe his eyes.
Says it all really.
320 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:39:20
You'll notice that I don't have my say just putting the club down as some of you city based "fans" do but defending it where that is appropriate.
321 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:41:46
322 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:42:15
Of course, the problem is that we fall apart for the rest of games and one of the main objectives we must have is the acquisition of a hard, controlling football intelligence on the pitch. It could be a player with only 2-3 years or so left in him but it would make a massive difference.
Some may have thought that Rooney would fulfil that role but he's not that sort of player.
Anyway, Vlasic is a continuing source of joy to me. When he develops a bit more stamina, and when he's in a confident team, he will be excellent. That dribble in the first half was a piece of gold in the surrounding darkness.
323 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:44:22
This is what makes the irony, we have struggled for many years financially, post the Moore's input, but at least for the most part, played with pride and passion.
The one time we get a serious investor, and the money has been more or less frittered away, on overpriced players with little passion or commitment, by inept management.
Football these days, is all about profit, mainly to satisfy investors, certainly not the fans, we are secondary in that for sure.
I blame Sky for a lot of that, but not wholly, because greed has allowed them, to have so much influence.
324 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:44:46
325 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:45:05
326 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:45:15
The worry for me now is when do we react?
All season and towards the end of last I lost faith in the club and Koeman, sometimes having a pop at fans for the lack of ambition too. Its time everyone stressed in whatever way we can, what kind of club we want to be.
When we know Barkley and Lukaku are offered shit deals that are made to be knocked back we should have all seen the writing on the wall.
Giroud again on Arsenals bench makes it plainly obvious to me we didn't offer him what he wanted.
I have just seen the worst Arsenal side in 15 years beat the most confused slow looking Everton side I have ever seen. And in 2nd gear almost.
The club has spys looking at ToffeeWeb, ToffeeTv Twitter etc. The echo gauge all their Everton opinion from Twitter. Let them know what we want as fans.
327 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:45:51
328 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:47:29
329 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:50:23
You just need to remind yourself that success in football is not judged by league position or trophies. All that matters is that we play in the richest league in the world and have a fairly high valuation due to premier league TV rights. I hope that makes you feel better.
331 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:52:46
334 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:58:02
I can't find any such rumours bar some bloke on Twitter saying it'll be Unsworth & Ebrell till the end of the season.
335 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:58:41
336 Posted 22/10/2017 at 20:58:57
Moyes is a good fit for Everton we must get him back or take a chance on Unsworth or we are going down. The damage might already be done, there might be no recovering from this.
337 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:01:34
338 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:02:16
339 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:02:39
340 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:02:56
Like you I also saw a good 20 minutes, however , my 20 minutes was the pre match warm up. Even then Rooney, Sigi, Vlasic and the Dutch lad were going for the same cone
341 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:03:50
Let's face it we have all been there when your voice to your team is about as welcome as a fart in a space suit. Sometimes a new voice in the changing room will bring better results. Let's hope so.
342 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:06:17
343 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:06:27
I still think a lot of this is down to the team being changed every single match. Players are brought in and out of the team in different combinations, formations and positions every single week. Its insane. Imagine trying to do your job if each day you were told to do something completely different with different people. Its hard to form any understanding and rhythm in that scenario.
344 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:11:10
345 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:11:29
346 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:13:59
347 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:14:03
348 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:19:26
349 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:19:30
350 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:25:32
352 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:26:02
353 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:27:33
354 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:33:13
355 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:35:21
356 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:38:17
He is a dreadful manager - on and off the field.
And such a coward too: bringing in Kenny to bow to fan pressure, but playing him in a back five, with Gana in front - so ALWAYS six defenders in the team.
Go. Now. You Dutch dunce!
359 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:46:41
360 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:48:09
361 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:48:21
362 Posted 22/10/2017 at 21:54:10
363 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:01:51
364 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:03:13
365 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:05:24
Moyes never betrayed the club or certainly not as much as Rooney betrayed the club and we have took him back with open arms on mega bucks while he stinks the place out most weeks. Moyes owed us nothing. Once he left Everton his responsibility was to Man Utd just as Rooneys was when he was kissing the Man Utd badge when he scored against us. Moyes gave us back our pride and our self respect and built the foundations to the fantastic training facility and youth set up that we are benefitting from today.
And how has he been exposed? Man Utd have hardly set the world alight since he left and they have spent 100s of millions more, some of their best players are Moyes signings and he never even got the chance to build the defence which is his strength. Sunderland were already for the Championship before he got there, Big Sam pulled off a miracle keeping them up in the first place, there was no way 2 miracles were going to happen in quick succession to the same team. Cant comment on his Spanish experience as I don't follow Spanish football.
366 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:21:16
As for the Arsenal game, when I saw Gana get booked I thought to myself Gana and Williams who was also booked needed to come off in the second half, it was inevitable that one of them would get sent off, it always happens. If I knew this was going to happen then how can a professional football manager not see this coming, it wasn't like we didn't have other good options on the bench. Koeman has to go immediately.
367 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:25:05
368 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:32:57
369 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:33:28
370 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:33:37
Moyes came in and saved us from relegation and took us up to 7th with no money.
Koeman has taken us from 7th to the drop zone with buckets of money.
371 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:48:23
The inevitable change of formation, the predictable chopping of personnel.
The notion of using a possession based 3-5-2 against Arsenal was laughable.
As Rooney scored it barely registered with me as the start we made had all the hallmarks of a hiding.
Our ball possession was lamentable, and Gana was running around the village telling everyone their house was on fire.
Going to ground looks amazing, but it also attracts the eye of the referee. Once on a yellow neither his teammates nor Koeman tried to help Gana calm down.
True indiscipline and the game, probably already over, drifted away with his red card.
The fact Moshiri & Kenwright had their pants pulled down and throughly rodgered on global tv you would hope might compel them to act?
I can only hope they decided after the game and paused to sleep on it. Get all the ducks in a row and fire him tomorrow.
Thoroughly ashamed of that game today.
372 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:48:44
He openly admitted they watch fans reactions and opinions. Which I suppose is natural though very hasty for a professional newspaper.
373 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:49:56
375 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:55:09
TIME: The guy has been with us for about 16 months. He's had all of that time to impose his methodologies, his tactics, formations and discipline into the fabric of the club. Either he hasn't succeeded at doing that, or he has managed to do it and it's just plain shite!
RECRUITMENT & SQUAD BALANCE: All the players Koeman and Walsh have recruited should've been recruited to slot into the planned system and formation. How can anybody explain the three or four no.10's that Koeman constantly tries to shoe-horn into a team with no width? And that's without even considering Barkley, who's yet to come back from injury. A major mistake was made by not signing a replacement for Lukaku and there are at least a couple of other glaringly obvious holes in the squad.
JUDGEMENT: I seem to remember in one of Koeman's first interviews as Everton boss, he said something along the lines of "I need 2 or 3 transfer windows to shape my team. Judge me after that" . Well, we're in that position now and it's not pretty!
376 Posted 22/10/2017 at 22:57:14
377 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:00:58
Before the game 'Pip' Neville opined that when at Everton he loved it when Arsenal came to town because he knew they hated it.
But this time he didn't get that feeling.
I predicted 4-1.
My Missus predicted 5-0.
Who knows the most footy eh ?
378 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:05:18
Can we keep accepting poor results for instance? Do we as a fanbase accept selling our best players and at a great young age is a great plan?
Now everybody has experienced it (again) And while the need for action is there, surely everyone can voice their thoughts on the reasons.
Or we could carry on being acceptable forgetfuls after a derby win or some other small joy.
379 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:07:14
Koeman won't fall on his sword and lose his money and the board won't sack him so I guess we are doomed. Fucked over by Bill and his mouthpiece billionaire buddy. I was concerned about the lack of movement on the stadium a few months ago but now I think we all know that's gone. Forget any thoughts of Bramley-Moore... fighting off relegation is the main focus now for the supporters. Moshiri is just like Kenwright – full of shite.
380 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:09:38
If we saw some evidence that they are turning the corner it wouldn't be so bad but it's the exact opposite.
He took over a team that wasn't half as bad as this, then was given money to bring in new talent. Along the way he knew Lukaku was going, deep sixed Barklay and Niasse for whatever reasons and has failed to compensate. He appears to have lost touch with reality never mind the players and at this stage he has to be seriously under the gun.
Surely no more than a week or two Moshiri ?
381 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:12:18
As it's 11 pm over there surely it's clear that no action will be taken this evening.
I'll check again around 9 a.m. here - 2 p.m. over there. By two in the afternoon surely the plug will be pulled! If not, Ronnie will preside over a thrashing of Everton by a Chelsea B side.
I swear to God it just is maddening as hell. What needs to happen for Moshri to pull the proverbial trigger?!
It costs 10 million or so to axe the Dutch Ginger Twat.
How much will relegation cost us?
It's basic business FFS!!!
382 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:15:50
I believe that the club would have to then pay Koeaman until the end.of his contract or until he gets another job.
Doing it that way means not having to pay a large sum all at once and could posaibly save the club money.
383 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:16:54
384 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:18:09
My initial reaction to that was, "that's pretty shitty."
Then I stopped, thought, and have decided maybe that's brilliant!
He's not earned a cent of that 10 million so screw it!
385 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:21:24
I started watching EFC in 1971, the season after winning the league. Even though we were disappointing in that season I was hooked by what EFC were all about and felt very proud to be supporting the greatest club in the world.
I still think we are the greatest club in the world and no-one will ever convince me otherwise. But, wow does it hurt to see us sink as low as we are at the moment.
You are spot on, no we cannot accept this level and we need to stand together and continue to voice our concerns.
386 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:24:49
Bad bad team, utter disgrace. I bet they don't even blush when their wages go in the bank. Love this club, hate this current team.
388 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:29:03
You're right, I am!!
389 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:37:39
It would pile some humiliation on RK as well.
Perhaps he would resign though I doubt he has the decency.
No doubt some PC group would consider it inhumane and a breach of human rights.
In which case we could counter sue under the Trade Descriptions Act. Football manager - really?
If the board arent on their version of a COBRA meeting tonight we are potentially destined for a catastrophic season.
390 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:42:22
391 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:49:48
392 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:52:50
Forget the new ground as, some how the hype has dried up ( surprise) and our EPL survival is now everything.
No one is too good to go down. Right now we are rank and the odour of hopelessness is taking grip at EFC.
Is there a plan?
393 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:56:02
The thing about it is, if I'm correct in thinking it can be done (seem to remember it being done somewhere else) is that Koeman can just take his salary until his contract finishes or look for another job and then resign saving the club from paying up his contract.
I can't see any self respecting person who wants to stay in management doing the former.
Thing that worries me is, who'd have him?
394 Posted 22/10/2017 at 23:58:59
395 Posted 22/10/2017 at 00:00:04
How can you say this isn't as bad as Martinez. At least we played great attacking football under him, or have you forgotten? We were great going forward, at least. This side isn't good at anything, except getting tanked by whoever we play!
396 Posted 23/10/2017 at 00:13:56
397 Posted 23/10/2017 at 00:17:22
Does Koeman have clauses in his contract that would trigger fair dismissal based on poor performance?
Bottom three at end of October - might that be one?
Are we possibly waiting to sack him on the basis that we might be able to do it without having to buy out his contract?
398 Posted 23/10/2017 at 00:17:29
Sigurdsson must have kicked the ball as hard as he could for a number of passes up to DCL (who has got to learn how to head the ball!) today. 45 million? Come again. Worrying times indeed. He has 3 games to save his job. Go out in Europe and the League Cup and he's done.
399 Posted 23/10/2017 at 00:48:49
400 Posted 23/10/2017 at 00:57:33
It's a bit like this kidology that there's been massive investment in the team when actually there hasn't. Or as some here insisted, that the last two transfer windows have been FANTASTIC because they got rid of all the deadwood ? Really? All that's happened is we've seen the club deliver two shite, unbalanced, transfer windows and replaced deadwood with, yes, more deadwood. Mr Moshiri has done his bit to keep the amortisation scientists happy, but in reality there has been no effective investment in the squad when it was desperately needed. Overall the net spend is only half of the additional hundred million TV windfall and don't be kidded by this talk of amortisation, it's not the best measure of an owners investment, it's a decent longer term assessment of running cost support but that's it.
Mr Moshiri has a huge part to play in this mess, from his sad approach to Comms via Sky TV to a failure to understand that relying on the sales income this year without doubling the net spend, at least, was always going to lead to failure.
Of course Koeman has been utterly hopeless. Of course players like Sigurdsson, Keane, Sandro and Klassen have been shockingly poor. Of course some of this can be laid at the door of Walsh. But my biggest shock is just how over hyped the new owner has been. Silent unless he's having fun on the phone with Jim White. I'm even starting to doubt that yet another stadium false dawn is looming. After all, Mr Moshiri has failed to spot that a disasterously poor relegation threatened team is not an attractive bet in the loan market when that puts at risk the huge influx of cash from Sky et al.
Pathetically desperate now, need to see that ticker tape headline about Koreans sacking but suspect it's not happening tomorrow, tho pray I'm wrong.
401 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:00:36
Mark, sure, blame Moshiri for getting the wrong man in rk but imo, it is now that determines whether he got the courage to steer us in the right direction. Fire rk and hire someone higher up the ladder, Tuchel or Ancelotti, pretty sure there's a few more out there better than Howe and Dyche.
The silence is what is worrying me but also keep in mind that he probably don't want to repeat the mistake IF he's truly thinking of ridding the plague that is rk. If I'm to throw another 20m out the window to change managers, money I clearly don't have, I probably want to make sure I get a man who I am confident of, and that man probably is also talking up his own value while assessing the mess he's going to get into.
402 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:01:38
Don't expect any signings in January and don't hold your breath on Bramley-Moore stadium. Neither of these will happen as Mr. Moshiri is a businessman not a fan. Blue Bill can waffle about how his mate Farhad has fallen in love with Everton. Stop falling for this bull crap.
£140m spent. £90m for Lukaku, £10m for Geri and £8m for Cleverley. With Ross gone for £30m that would be a paltry investment in transfer fees. Wages may have gone up due to numbers but they will have been offset by sponsorship and t.v money.
Until a true football man buys the club we will never achieve success. We will be plucky little Everton.
403 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:03:29
I vowed never to listen to him on talksport again, however, if it gives us an insight from his ‘good friend Moshiri, I will probably tune in.
404 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:05:47
405 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:08:03
406 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:10:49
Paul, he.will.never.watch.or.listen.to.anyone. When he got it right, he reverts to form after the game. That shows me that he is not learning from mistakes.
407 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:12:21
408 Posted 23/10/2017 at 01:55:14
Pickford concedes 5 yet is our best player. That says all you need to know about the rest of them!! Keane was hopeless, Baines slow and time is catching up on him quickly, same with Jags and Kenny was making his full debut and was probably best of a bad bunch at the back. The less said about Williams the better!!
In midfield Vlasic did ok apart from the 3rd goal, Sigurdsson was anonymous (again), Gana failed to offer protection to his defence and two rash challenges saw the end of him.
Rooney scored an excellent goal and managed zero other influence on the game
DCL, see above
Davies failed to get into the game which was unsurprising seeing as Arsenal were passing us to death!! Same for Lookman. Did he even touch the ball. Niasse got his name on the scoresheet but nearly managed to fall over his own feet before tapping into an empty net from 2yds but let's give him credit for still tryin and closing the keeper down in the 93rd minute but at the same time lets not kid ourselves that he's anything better than championship level at best.
Where do we go from here? Sack the manager? Maybe, but we all know he's not the only one to blame for letting lukaku go without a replacement being in the bag first. Or having alternatives in case Giroud turned us down. Until we can do something about the lack of a forward in January as well as a few other reinforcements then I fear we'll be staying pretty much where we are tonight. And that's a pretty depressing thought!!
409 Posted 23/10/2017 at 04:24:42
With relegation a conversation we may be forced to have, that squad has no hardened players suited to grinding games out.
A soft touch for sure.
The league cup game, if he remains in charge, likely to be given away. That will seriously make my blood boil.
Koeman and his predecessors, and the club for that matter have shown contempt for the shortest route to success.
410 Posted 23/10/2017 at 05:37:13
However I do think we need a change of attitude now to start clocking some points, playing players in position etc. It's a hard squad to manage with all those no.10s (and we should only play one of them at once). I don't know why we were so desperate to get Sigurdssen. He's a quality player but where is he expected to play? It defies belief
411 Posted 23/10/2017 at 06:00:02
412 Posted 23/10/2017 at 06:51:24
Hope he is sacked today it mihht then give us a chance on Wednesday #COYB
413 Posted 23/10/2017 at 07:01:49
Whatever he says at BBC have been said on this site since September or even earlier.
414 Posted 23/10/2017 at 08:01:41
415 Posted 23/10/2017 at 08:30:14
The team that Keown & Wright put together which was titled “ Joint Interim Managers (really taking the piss!) was ridiculous.
It had almost the same front three DCL - Rooney - Mirallas as the Brighton match which Keown lambasted the week before. It also had the no Vlasic who is arguably one of our better performers presently plus Holgate at RB and no Jagielka which are 2 highly questionable decisions. However to hear them 2 clowns speak they had all the answers. The answers to our problems are not simple at all and those two with no real experience behind them certainly couldnt provide it.
It does hurt though when you become the laughing stock for the self proclaimed experts on the TV who I very much watch us week in week out. Something needs to change drastically though.
416 Posted 23/10/2017 at 08:38:35
417 Posted 23/10/2017 at 09:10:27
I noticed the muted celebration to Rooneys goal. I would suggest not a happy camp at all unlike the positivity soundbites that have been spoken by the likes of Jagielka & Keane in recent interviews.
Why do they treat the supporters with such contempt.
418 Posted 23/10/2017 at 09:19:21
I would give Calvert-Lewin a rest. We have to do something to create a threat to the opposition and the young man looks lost at the moment, understandably. With all his faults, I think Mirallas up front /just behind Rooney (or vice versa) is probably the best we can manage now and would be worth persisting with.
419 Posted 23/10/2017 at 09:20:08
One other thing, though.. I can't believe how some on here keep on dragging Jordan Pickford into the 'dud-buys' category! As generally perceived outside of TW, 'It's scary to think where Ronald Koeman's Blues would be without Jordan Pickford'.. and I shudder to think!!! (Ok, nuff said!.. for now.. I'm both gutted and bricking it to be honest!!!)...
421 Posted 23/10/2017 at 10:09:54
Thinking about it thoroughly, if the Board were to make such a statement, they may deem it to be an admission of failure on their part. They were very proactive in chasing Koeman, paying the necessary compensation to Southampton, a joke in retrospect now, to procure his services.
As so many on here, and quite rightly so, have pointed out, the longer they dither on a decision, we are rapidly reaching the point of no return, well this season anyway.
Again, as many have acknowledged, including myself, the new manager will need time to turn the tide as it were, and that time, like the tide, is fastly ebbing away.
422 Posted 23/10/2017 at 10:29:32
423 Posted 23/10/2017 at 10:33:53
I see a side blessed with players who in their prime would make it in to most top sides, some young players with the potential to go on to great things, and some, frankly, just average players, and are now just struggling.
Who, in our current squad, would be regular starters for City, United, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea or (dare I say it) Liverpool? It's quite likely that up to half a dozen of our squad yesterday would genuinely struggle to get in to the starting line up of most of the premier league teams.
The situation is now dire, and urgent steps need to be taken to ensure survival this season. Forget about the Europa league and Carabao for now - just work on league survival. The genuine threat of relegation needs to be driven home into everybody from top to bottom of the club because quite honestly I don't think they see it like that - they are seeing a slump, a blip, a "bad run" which will turn itself around. "No chance of us going down with these players" I read and hear people say.
I see a bad run which is getting worse and is turning rapidly irreversible. We are like an old building which has been subject to expensive and shoddy renovation by a bunch of cowboy builders and continues to fall into disrepair before actually falling down.
Someone, and frankly I don't care if it is Koeman, has to get this into their collective heads and get us battling for every available point but primarily fucking realise it, and get the mental attitude right.
A missive on the wall at Burnley's training ground, for those who have not seen it goes like this...
A STATE OF MIND
If you think you are beaten, you are.
If you think you dare not, you don't.
If you would like to win but think you can't...
...it's almost certain you wont.
If you think you will lose, you will have lost.
For out of the world you find,
success begins with a players will.
ITS ALL IN THE STATE OF MIND
This has to be drummed in to the players (and Moshiri take note - or learn correct use of English before speaking to J White), and somehow their spirits raised.
I said I don't care even if it is Koeman who does this and indeed I don't, but I do not think he can do it. He has to go SOON before the malignancy can get any worse and we need a thoroughly good incumbent to take the reins.
This may or may not be D Unsworth but I believe he is absolutely our best choice in the immediate future and we should replace RK with him as caretaker immediately without the pressure or expectation that it is necessarily a permanent berth. I am sure he will respect and understand that and will be willing to step aside if and when a more experienced top manager can be attracted in a few weeks.
He may, however, turn out to be God's gift. Unless we try we will never know, but whoever it is, they have got to get this bunch of misfits working properly if we are to remain in the top flight..
Point of all this (and I know I am with the majority saying this) is we are right up shit street just now and following in the footsteps of A Villa. I am pretty patient and am not one to call for sackings at he first signs but yesterday just underpinned it for me. The demeanour of EVERYONE connected with the club is utter depression - that's directors, management, players, ground staff and of course the most important, the fans.
This has to stop. I'm willing the board to act now for God's sake. I just don't know what else we ca do short of an embarrassing display of non attendance or banner waving or something at Goodison Park. I think the white flags/handkerchief thing is good. Easy to get into the ground, everyone's got something at home to use and visual enough to be heard loud and clear. Anyone agree and want to help put the word out?
Trouble is we haven't got a home game for another two weeks (probably much to the relief of BK, FM and RK).
424 Posted 23/10/2017 at 10:39:01
And so what if it is? The club stinks of negative.
There shouldn't be too many complaints either to be fair. We have gone from having Stones Barkley Deulofeu Lukaku sat amongst Coleman Baines Barry Mirallas Was the makings of a great squad. A billionaire coming in only had to add a couple of quality to the starting 11 and we were fine.
Instead we chose the strip possibly the best young quartet at any club in europe and buy a lower quality at low cost.
Now call this rational, positive, patient or whatever words you chose to play down the fact a fan with no professional football history could see right through the awful standard we have been twisted to.
Or are people really offended certain fans could see this nonsense for what it really is. A big con job.
The amount of times Barkleys name is cropping up lately is starting to show how fans have become sorry they went along with this crap.
I don't mind being patient for the right reasons. Not when we sell the best assets the club has to gamble on players and sign "premiership ready" has beens with no chance of getting better.
When a fellow fan writes a point off with 'Steve Walsh knows better than you' I can't bare the arrogance of that statement. Everybody on this thread knows more about Everton than Steve Walsh.
My hope is nobody takes the word of a PE teacher or a tight Billionaire after this episode and our fans start to respect each others opinions.
Now we truly know selling great young players is a poor idea. Not replacing them is sacreligious.
425 Posted 23/10/2017 at 10:52:12
426 Posted 23/10/2017 at 10:53:37
Will people stop banging on about our situation being down to the failure to get Giroud (or a.n.other) in the summer. Do we seriously think he would have stopped us conceding 18 goals so far in the league ? (I think it's 18).
We are in decay. Someone shore it up! Please!
Was thinking all this last night but was just so catatonic after that match I couldn't find the energy to post anything.
427 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:16:36
Sean McCarthy #408.
That's a fairly damning version of what you saw yesterday. Gana for me was Everton's man of the match, by a fucking country mile. From the first whistle he continually broke up play and was a constant thorn for Sanchez. Now when your doing all the clean up work on your own then you are going to caught out, but that did not stop the boy, he just took the first yellow and carried on doing his job. They had a four man midfield, we had fucking one. DCL is young, but he worked like a saint and on his own, ran their back 3 all over the pitch, so yes, there is a very good player waiting to come through.
Yes, I do agree that we have too many players stinking the place out but for me Siggy-Shite should of stayed at Swansea and Everton just put 10 players on the pitch. That's how much difference he makes to our team. Keane started the season well but his confidence has totally well and truly fucked off. But worst for me is Baines; he is really a liability and is continually caught out of position, making no attempt to stop crosses or put in a tackle.
Now it's fairly obvious what the problem is but you would think that playing for Everton would be enough for some players to go out and bust a gust, but no, sadly its not. At the game yesterday you noticed that not one player took any notice of what Koeman was shouting, not one of them. The P45 is probably printed but I'm guessing we still have a couple of games to go before Koeman gets handed what he fully deserves.
428 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:17:10
Well, it's his money and if he's daft enough to laugh yesterday off as he seemed to do, bloody good luck to him !
430 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:27:20
431 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:34:41
432 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:37:31
Then bring in hard headed business leaders to run this club. I'm sure you know a few.
It's not a fucking museum, as you said, but it seems you are content with a load of old relics throwing hundreds of millions down the drain, living their dream on the back of your hard earned cash.
433 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:47:09
That's out of Europe, bottom three and out of the League Cup before the end of October.
435 Posted 23/10/2017 at 11:55:45
436 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:07:25
437 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:11:47
Note to David Unsworth. Starting now, you have until the end of the season. Start preparing for a call from the chairman.
Clean sheet of paper. Begin again. What have we got, what do we need.
Decide who to keep and who to sit on the bench if they are lucky.
See what you have and make a plan to use THEIR best skills in THEIR best position. Simples.
Light a fire under some backsides, put an arm around those who have been nailed to a cross, bring back in those you can use, even if its only short term..
Give us back a little hope because there isn't a flicker under Koeman and unless that changes its a gross dereliction of care and duty by Kenwright.
Note to Kenwright. Bet you wished you had sold all your shares now?
Stop trying to be something you are not and get out. Take your manager with you.
438 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:11:49
439 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:13:13
440 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:20:12
Dean Saunders, who speaks some sense on Talksport I have to say, said yesterday that considering sacking Koeman after ten games was ridiculous. He said that if Everton were to win their next three games we'd be where we should be. Now looking at that on face value he "may" have a point.
But where his outlook fails is in that he probably hasn't watched many of our games and doesn't realize that winning our next three games is as far fetched as a bucket of shite from China!
441 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:23:24
Ive been listening to Jim White, who usually never stops saying how ‘my good friend Farhad Moshiri phones him with updates direct, and he does (which really gets my goat).
However, today, no mention of Moshiri having phoned him. Why not?
I would have imagined that the situation is in the balance. The silence is deafening.
Are Moshiri and BK that arrogant (just like RK) that they think we are not entitled to an update, even if it meant RK staying, god forbid.
442 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:28:42
I listened to Saunders this morning on Talksport. He talks shit mate. He called a good manager ?? On what basis.? Did he look at Ron's CV prior to the Southampton job,?
Did Deano check out the stats from last season.Two away wins as all season and only 2 wins in total in the last 12 games. Only Lukaku goals spared Koeman last year. Absolute shit manager deserved the bullet months ago..Saunders is a bellend Kopite saying we would be happy mid table.
443 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:33:00
Koeman's formations / system, his failure to address the critical striker position, and the fundamental coaching crap (e,g. Schneiderlin's sideways passing) are all adequate proof - not evdience, but proof - that he doesn't know what he's doing.
444 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:34:59
Know what you mean about not mentioning Moshiri but maybe Jim has been told not to.White seemed pretty sure he knew Koeman was at Finch Farm though?
445 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:41:09
Sacking a manager after four games, ten games, a season, twenty seasons; the right time to get rid is when they do not merit a further chance. We have reached that point with Koeman - and arguably we reached it four or five games ago. He has done nothing to arrest our slump - indeed it has worsened.
Professional football clubs are businesses not charities, and this current incessant chorus from ex-pros, analysts and commentators about giving managers time to turn things around is becoming idiotic. Some managers have probably been dismissed ahead of time, but anyone assessing Koeman on our first team performances, attitude, shape, selection, form, fitness and energy must deduce that he has been awful for a long time now.
446 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:48:51
Unless you like teams that are not capable of winning or achieving anything. Calvert Lewin for instance has loads of potential. Its going to be interesting to see how he develops but he would be lucky to start up front for any club in the division. Except Everton.
447 Posted 23/10/2017 at 12:51:39
448 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:05:52
Keep that form up we'll end on 36 points. That ain't keeping us in the prem.
449 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:12:13
It's clear that the centre of gravity of football is Manchester, with London a second, and has been for some time. It's likely to stay that way unless someone like Usmanov joins us and injects really big money.
450 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:18:36
451 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:18:45
Stan i think we do know mate. When possibly the worst Arsenal team in years beats us with more shots than we have had at Goodison this season we do know.
Huddersfield beat Man U. If i see us get a point off Man U i might believe the makings are there mate. Tactics and personel are dreadful.
452 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:33:35
Take Michael Keane. Last season got rave notices, England call up and moved to a ‘bigger club with all the ‘experts ‘ saying it was a smart move.
Hes about 16 games into his Everton career, and hes played in a flat back 4, a 3, hes had Williams and Jags as his partner. Look to his right and its either Holgate, Kenny or Martina. In front of him its either 2holders or 1-and thats in 16, and people wonder why he looks unsure!
Hes not alone as Koeman shuffles the pack like a poker player chasing his losses, the whole team just look bewildered. Look at Siggy. A top player who looks like Scott gemmils less talented brother
And for the posters who say Koeman doesnt care. He cares right enough; if he gets sacked the chances of him managing the Fantail let alone Barca is remote as hell be forever the man who spunked £150mill up the wall.
453 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:35:12
454 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:35:54
455 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:36:53
456 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:36:57
457 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:38:34
458 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:39:18
Maybe Moshiri deserves a bit more credit than I gave him .
However, no change in respect of my view on BK and SW.
459 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:39:50
460 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:45:04
461 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:45:25
462 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:45:52
463 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:46:08
464 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:47:55
I also rate Unsy massively, but would hate to run the risk of him getting sacked midway through next season. That is what always happens to internal promotions from within premier league clubs. He is too important to the Academy long-term strategy.
465 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:48:49
466 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:48:59
Going from joy to suicidal isn't good at my age.
467 Posted 23/10/2017 at 13:50:23
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