Oumar Niasse is on the bench after serving a two-game ban
EVERTON 2 - 0 HUDDERSFIELD TOWN
Sam Allardyce took charge of his first match since agreeing to become Everton manager as Huddersfield Town came to Goodison Park for the first time in the league for 45 years.
And Allardyce named an unchanged side from the one that performed so well on Wednesday night to put four goals past West Ham United. Still no sign of Davy Klaassen or Sandro Ramirez, with Michael Keane back from injury and on the bench.
Oumar Niasse had completed his two-match ban for supposedly deceiving the match officials at Crystal Palace and he was also on the bench.
A polite round of applause greeted the introduction of the new manager to the Goodison faithful before the visitors kicked off and Everton lobbed a few long balls forward for good measure. Davies was upended by Malone but Sigurdsson delivered the arcing free-kick direct to Lössl. Davies went down again in an unequal aerial challenge.
Holgate had trouble early on, missing a clearance, giving away a free-kick and a corner, while his colleagues proceeded to implement the long-ball hoof up field at every opportunity. Davies won another free-kick that Sigurdsson expertly fired in again directly into Lössl's arms.
The game was ugly with Everton formless and scrappy 15 mins in, Huddersfield starting to dominate possession and push the Blues back, with the mindless long-ball clearances playing perfectly into their hands.
A defended ball fell nicely for Rooney whose fierce volley smacked into a defender. Lennon got the chance to run with the ball and Malone hacked him down, earning the first yellow card and another Sigurdsson opportunity... this time played wide to Lennon, ending with a turnover and a poor challenge from Kenny and a yellow card for the youngster.
Davies was next to show needless and mindless aggression that earned him a really stupid booking. Calvert-Lewin inadvertently set up a surprise shot on target for Martina that was batted away – the only attemt on the visitors' goal in the first half. Rooney usurped free-kick duties and fired in a wicked ball for Calvert-Lewin, who had strayed offside.
Everton finally started to look a little better but Lennon kept running the ball into trouble and the visitors took over control again, albeit with no better quality. A hopeful move forward through the middle, with ground balls through Rooney, ended abruptly when the ball spun off Sigurdsson's heel, summing up the frustrating nature of the football on show.
Rooney was dropping all the way back to try and control things but it wasn't really working and a dangerous free-kick in form Moe needed heading behind for a corner that saw Everton survive a goalmouth scramble, with Pickford reacting quickly to save a goal against.
Kenny put in some good crosses but there was insufficient quality on the end of them to forge anything by way of a real goal attempt, which had been ominously lacking for much of a very poor first half, which ended appropriately enough with a shockingly poor forward ball form Sigurdsson.
But less than 2 minutes into the second half and a slick move with some fine passing ended with Sigurdsson firing home instinctively off a brilliant flick from Calvert-Lewin. A moment of quality at last!
The goal instantly changed the impetus of the game and Everton should have scored a second from a corner but Huddersfield scampered forward and Ince lashed a shot just wide, into the side netting. But the effect was short-lived as the quality of Everton's passing and ball-retention reverted to previous levels.
The hour mark approached and Big Sam looked at Little Sam, thinking about a sub as Calvert-Lewin finally got a rare chance to fire at goal but gave the keeper too much of a chance to push it away.
Davies and Calvert-Lewin so nearly combined with some clever flicks that just failed to click, and another better-looking exchange saw Sigurdsson cross too close to Lössl. The chosen sub was Morgan Schneiderlin on for Tom Davies, a very conservative move to retain that one-goal lead with 25 minutes left. Lookman replaced Lennon 5 mins later.
An opportunistic turnover forced by Gueye was pounced on beautifully by Rooney and played forward superbly for Calvert-Lewin who kept his cool and got a nice deflection to take the ball high into the roof of the net for a fine second goal.
No place for Oumar Niasse in the last 10 minutes as Michael Keane replaced Wayne Rooney, to the sound of a good chant from the Goodison fans who had not decided to stay away in protest against Allardyce's appointment. The second half was played out with growing confidence and competence in equal measure for a solid and vital win (and another clean sheet) that would take Everton back into the top-half of the Premier League table.
Scorers: Sigurdsson (47'), Calvert-Lewin (73')
Everton: Pickford, Martina, Williams, Holgate, Kenny [Y:21'], Davies [Y:25'] (65' Schneiderlin), Gueye, Rooney (80' Keane), Sigurdsson, Lennon (71' Lookman); Calvert-Lewin.
Subs not Uesd: Robles, Niasse, Vlasic, Baningime.
Huddersfield Town: Lössl, Malone [Y:20'] (71' Mounie), Smith, Schindler, Zanka, Williams, Quaner (46' Palmer), Kachunga, Mooy, Ince, Depoitre.
Subs not Used: Hogg, Cranie, Lowe, Green, Hadergjonaj.
Referee: Chris Kavanagh
Reader Comments (323)
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1 Posted 02/12/2017 at 14:10:07
2 Posted 02/12/2017 at 14:29:50
3 Posted 02/12/2017 at 14:34:03
4 Posted 02/12/2017 at 14:37:15
Oumar can earn his way back into the team when it stumbles. Probably around the sixty minute mark.
5 Posted 02/12/2017 at 14:43:50
7 Posted 02/12/2017 at 15:41:01
Davies is a red card waiting to happen, his preoccupation with wrestling is getting very frustrating. Industry is not enough at this level... as for Sigurdsson, I wouldn't have him in my five-a-side team.
8 Posted 02/12/2017 at 15:55:03
He may be happy with that.
9 Posted 02/12/2017 at 15:57:38
10 Posted 02/12/2017 at 16:55:50
11 Posted 02/12/2017 at 16:58:17
So glad Mr Koeman has gone, it feels very refreshing to have a no-nonsense Englishman in charge of our players. With Seamus, Ross and others to come back and a bit of investment in January, it could just turn our season on its head.
12 Posted 02/12/2017 at 16:58:24
The table looks a lot better now.
Aggado do do push pineapples up the tree.
To the left to the right .
13 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:04:08
A few boring wins is good in my books at the moment, after the last few weeks!
14 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:05:57
Before that it was pretty much the same story.
Up to 10th. Maybe Ron was right - the fixtures were against him... since he left we've won our last three home games and moved up to 10th!
15 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:10:49
16 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:12:31
17 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:13:38
I can't help but feel frustrated that the board acted prematurely. Unsworth won on Wednesday and the same line up he picked won today. We're now 10th and talk of 'inevitable' relegation seems even more like desperate panic.
Still. What's done is done. A good day with harder tests to come. Well done Allardyce on your first win at Goodison. Let's hope there are plenty more.
18 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:15:44
Next week will be one hell of a test but Sam won't be scared going to Anfield and he will have a game plan in mind.
Whether we can implement it is yet to be seen but at least we look much further away from relegation now.
19 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:16:39
20 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:22:21
That's 6-0 over the last 2 games. Heady days considering our very recent past.
21 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:22:31
We had 5 English youngsters on the pitch today (not including Keane and Pickford), is it just me or would teams like Spurs and Man Utd etc. be lauded to the rafters if that was the case?
Oh, and the goals were really good moves too!
22 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:24:40
Sit back enjoy the ride because no matter how much you whinge whine and protest the Big Sam / Little Sam combo are trying to make things work and won't be changed unless a catterstrofe occurs.
I know it's catastrophe but I don't want to look like a smart ars5e.
23 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:25:36
Next Sunday would be the perfect place to start!
24 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:27:26
Some balance, please!! Yes, we're still far from where we really want to be, but those words absolutely DO NOT go with ANY report on a 'solid' win!!!
25 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:33:01
But seriously - first half was frustrating, yet there seemed to be more of an air of self-assurance about the team. We kept our composure, took our chances in the second half, closed Huddersfield down defensively and saw out a textbook win and a clean sheet. I'll take that all season long.
26 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:34:08
That was almost leadership. Shape, all three versions in that game was very clear.
Yet again, Davies booked for stupidity, as is pointed out. Such an impetus player, unnecessarily so. Once booked, he is neutered nowhere near the player he can be. He must learn to play on a booking, needs to give GazBaz a call.
Michael, the report is on the money, functional and solid, but a lots of booting it up in the air, but what did we expect?
A very tactical approach to close the game down. A tick In the box for using Lookman for the counter, on a better day the space he had would be exploited.
Some confidence in players all over the pitch, Sigurdsson especially.
Goals aside, a turgid watch. Kopites everywhere running for cover?
27 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:37:02
I try to keep myself above 'opinions' like:
"we won so you can't discuss the performance"
"we lost so you can't take any positives from the performance"
"we didn't concede against Huddersfield; Sam's got us organised defensively in two days"
28 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:38:30
I think the perceived notion of Allardyce as a long-ball manager is undeserved, but that's just my view.
We've been humping it out from Pickford and the defenders all season, so why it's suddenly become an Allardyce trait seems like bullshit to me. No offence.
29 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:41:38
Still a lot of sloppy play that went unpunished, but It's a platform to build on, we have received a bit of breathing space, but must push on for safety.
30 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:41:42
Also, apologies if this has already been said but it's good info -
Connolly and Dowell both scored in the match between Ipswich and Forest today.
32 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:42:26
The rest of the game I reckon we were about as direct as normal.
33 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:42:42
Yes, today was a solid win. We limited Huddersfield to one real chance. Scored two and a clean sheet. Sam saw what was needed at half-time because he sits in the stand like we do.
Tougher games lie ahead but this is something to build on. Let's enjoy our Saturday evening for a change.
34 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:44:59
That said, I still think we played the ball on the deck for the most part, and mixed up our longer balls – nothing wrong with that.
35 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:51:06
Now that we've got Sam Allardyce, a lot of people are expecting hoof-ball based on his perceived old-fashioned British pedigree. If we do get that, it'll just be a continuation of Koeman. But it's possible that we get better attacking, even attractive, football. Well, it's unlikely to be any less attractive than Koeman's.
36 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:51:17
Wins. Goals. Clean sheets. And to talk about the performance afterwards, which is exactly what is happening here.
Sam was on the line for the first half, by the way. Shakespeare in the stand. Didn't notice where they were in the second but I'm assuming the same place.
37 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:53:30
38 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:58:21
The second half was transformed inside 2 minutes by an excellent goal. Haven't you heard the cliché? – "Goals change games"? That one certainly changed this game. And the second goal was also superbly worked by Rooney.
Some will fault Big Sam's game management in the second half but there is no doubt it was 'solid' as it consolidated the advantage, secured the win with a clean sheet.
I challenge you to identify anything I wrote that does not correspond directly with what actually happened this afternoon at Goodison Park.
39 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:58:56
Mind you, he's got a decision to make for Thursday. Should be an easy call to rest players but there's a bit of momentum right now that you wouldn't want to damage. Atalanta didn't really matter but it still dented our confidence when we got twatted.
40 Posted 02/12/2017 at 17:59:18
Allardyce wasn't my choice, but ffs, give him a chance.
41 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:00:05
Ego driven hard man management. Ross deffo not unpacking that bag of his.
Didnt we just utterly reject that?
42 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:04:17
I think Allardyce will be far more nuanced than just a massive kick up the arse, and I think we will see Everton players laying their bodies on the line for him, not through fear but out of respect and out of motivation.
43 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:05:36
If he can get everyone aligned he can do well. Even if it's only 'relative achievement'.
44 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:06:45
Today was the kind of functional win we got used to last season. Just what we need right now. The defence looked desperate not to concede, rather than just desperate.
It's a given he'll make us harder to beat. Just like the last guy, it's whether he can do any more than that. In that regard, I'm firmly on the fence. We'll see.
45 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:09:24
I for one couldn't care less about the performance for now. Sam is pragmatic about three points and performances. He knows what needs to be done. What I do know is winning brings confidence and, with the quality we have in the side, it will only improve performances.
46 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:10:55
Well the rebellion against Allardyce did not materialise. No booing or banners, polite applause before the game. The usual number of empty seats you would expect at any game.
First half was dreadful from both teams and nothing of note.
Second half early goal created a better game and although Huddersfield had a lot of the ball they rarely threatened.
The youngsters all had good games and I have to admit Williams was solid in defence and had no stupid challenges in dangerous areas.
Another 3 points and a clean sheet. However we will have to up our game and concentration 100% to have any chance of a point next week.
Think I might look look for a week away in Greenland, do not fancy being around next week
47 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:12:43
But still, we won. We won with a crook in charge of the team, and with signings bankrolled by an investor whose money was obtained in, at very best, a dubious way. Not sure that this is the Everton Football Club I first fell in love with any more, but hey, who cares about your manager being a money-obsessed, corrupt crook when he you've just got three points and a clean sheet?
48 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:12:50
49 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:14:25
I have to give credit to players I have criticised too. Williams, Davies, and Martina never ever hide. Nobody can accuse them of not wanting it.
Jonjoe Kenny I am made up with. 3 weeks ago, I said he wasn't ready. Today, he played like he's been around 10 years. Credit to Unsworth for sticking with him.
50 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:16:45
51 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:20:34
Get behind the guy and give him a chance.
Like I have always said, give me ugly wins over excellent football with no end product every time.
Time we fans stood up as one and get behind everybody.
52 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:21:21
53 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:21:48
54 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:23:35
I didn't see much hoofing today, just a tidy hard-working win. It was good to see Allardyce communicating with Shakespeare and Lee, who I think will be good additions.
Sam seems to 'get' Everton, and punching the air at the end shows more emotion than Koeman ever did. With the right players, I think he can change the way a lot of people perceive him.
55 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:24:19
I'm still worried about playing the RedShite next week, they look good going forward. But much happier now than I was a couple off weeks ago. COYB
56 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:26:12
57 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:26:27
58 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:27:04
Then outlaw it.
59 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:27:11
I didn't want Sammy Lee near the club mate but we can't question his winning mentality. I go to see us win or at least give the intention and men like them three are known for influencing big wins. From my own point of view, it looked like every pass meant more with some passion coming from the touchline.
60 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:27:37
As far as Moshiri is concerned, you haven't a clue what is the truth and neither has Panorama. Moshiri was known to be a billionaire long before he sold his Arsenal shares and had the money to buy his EFC shares without selling his stake in Arsenal but he had to do that to meet FA rules.
Just savour the points.
61 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:29:56
Its a very interesting point that. I bet those three, especially Sam cannot believe theyre here. They normally are picking over a relegation carcass they need to ‘Lazarus.
Instead theyve landed a old Rolls Royce, that needs clear work but could really be something. No wonder they were keyed in. They do carry that professional edge. Granted. Even Dunc was allowed off his seat today.
Compare that to Koeman, which is compelling. Poached, and never totally convinced about the job, except the money. Irwin barely ever left his seat and Ron did truly look like he couldnt give a fook. Dunc gaffered taped to his chair.
Perception hey, very close to reality. Deffo on the money there Paul.
62 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:30:57
Next weekend is a whole different test though. Hopefully Sam can have a few decent training sessions before then so we can at least have a solid defense to work with.
63 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:31:57
I'm not sure when you fell in love with Everton but if it was since Harry Catterick then you don't know what you're talking about.
I would suggest you find something else to pass your time.
64 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:32:08
After a nice win, why would you talk about stuff you have no substance for. I wish fans would sack the ciggy break chit-chat and stick with what's important.
65 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:33:56
66 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:38:12
67 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:38:53
Unsworth I couldn't knock for the same reason but he looked alone out there.
Not to say this is a better man in charge I just like the team affect it showed today.
68 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:47:20
Considering Mourinho had to retire at 24 without playing a great level and Houllier was a school teacher, I would have thought it may have dawned on grown ups that coaching takes different qualities.
And considering one of our most vocal fans on here thinks Steve Walsh (the former PE teacher) is some sort of football genius, I find the resentment of Ferguson shocking and selective.
Also calling Allardyce corrupt while their minds are corrupted by pre-concieved opinions that turn to gossip.
69 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:55:14
70 Posted 02/12/2017 at 18:57:34
71 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:05:25
Sam might be perceived as a purveyor of long ball football. If you look back at the Kendall Mk 1 team we scored a lot of goals by gaining yardage then winning the second ball.
Arsenal are probably the best team in the division for playing "pure football". If this is the best way then why have Chelsea, Leicester and Man City all beat them to the title? Liverpool don't always play "pretty football" but they score lots of goals. Spurs are good to watch as opposed to Man Utd who bully teams into submission.
I don't really care how we play as long as we start scoring more and conceding less.
72 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:11:41
I can't see any benefit in any of the first team going over there and surely better to keep the players rested and use all days on the training pitch.
73 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:12:02
He knows the game inside out, he knows the value of the 5-yard pass, and he knows that if he doesn't give us his all, he will be found out in 5 minutes! I actually don't think that last sentence matters to Sammy, because he came through at Liverpool when you had to be a 100% winner to play for them.
Ferguson I'm not sure about, but I wouldn't wish anyone out of work, so I hope he learns off the other three, who have a wealth of experience on the other side of the fence, and this will only help the man to get better.
75 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:16:00
Nobody in the ground could believe it when he brought Schneiderlin on, the worst player all season. And then later on, when Calvert-Lewin was knackered, instead of bringing on Niasse to run at the defence, he brings on a centre-half... unbelievable!
You can bet your bottom dollar next week he will play three centre halves, two full backs and two defensive midfielders. So if you go to Anfield next week, expect us to not venture out of our own half!
76 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:16:36
77 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:22:10
78 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:22:50
That means we scored 2 goals, and the other team scored zero goals.
Which in turn means we win the game with a perfect record of scoring more than the other team - who scored zero goals.
Slag him off if you like, but as I might have mentioned, we scored 2 goals, and the other team didn't score any goals at all.
79 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:30:44
Firstly I'm not a massive Allardyce fan but even I must say it was more organised and the defenders were obviously told “If in doubt, kick it out” then the team reshaped.
Yes, it was only Huddersfield but you could see the plan was not to let the opposition have chances. I've no issue with that.
As for presuming that next week he will set up as you suggest. Just park your presumption for now and be happy we got 3 points and a clean sheet.
80 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:31:21
I liked Sam's post match interview I read on the BBC site, he said we needed more attacking football, but we could build upon that, great to hear!
Anyone moaning today ridiculous. Go and watch a Koeman game.
Oh and Schneiderlin poor when he came on. I think Lookman and Niasse need to start, at times Calvert-Lewin looked isolated up-front on his own.
81 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:41:44
82 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:44:26
Can we haul back the plaudits about a 2-0 win?.
We've had a couple of matches that we couldn't lose and for 45 minutes today we seemed to be trying for that regardless. Sam's going to be getting us to play low-risk, percentages, football. We accept that, because the alternative is worse, and move on.
83 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:48:20
Bring Niasse on to do what, exactly? Needlessly chase a third goal over the last ten minutes? That's the sort of stunt Martinez would have pulled. Lock down the win, preserve a clean sheet, continue building confidence that was the priority here.
84 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:50:00
As for the bench, it was great having people constantly down the ears of the fourth official arguing the toss over every decision and even giving it to the ref on the way down the tunnel, well done Sammy Lee. In the past we have been too nice and just played the game and accepted everything.
I can't wait to see Sam, Sammy and Duncan upsetting the apple cart next week at the tin mine...
Oh and Allardyce joining in with the singing of Grand Old Team at the end!! Whether you wanted him or not, up to now he has bought into Everton and conducted himself unlike any manager we have had in my memory.
85 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:50:05
I'm not a fan of Lee, but he wears his heart on his sleeve, and you could see him motivating the players today, also Shakespeare in the stand, watching the bigger picture for Sam, have to say, I'm impressed.
86 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:50:20
Why should anyone have to temper their enthusiasm? Football is about results, so celebrate them when they come along!
87 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:51:28
Friend of mine I used to work with with and life long season ticket holder (since Adam was a lad), always said that in the early 80s Sammy Lee turned up at a local junior amateur cup match, 4 days after the European Cup final, that he played in and won. Not making a fuss he helped set up the Goal posts/nets etc.
Sammy Lee is a down-to-earth decent guy.
88 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:51:32
89 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:58:25
90 Posted 02/12/2017 at 19:58:56
91 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:01:31
. Koeman was a disaster, so many embarrassing away performances. Let's hope Sam can at least stop that, starting next week.
92 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:02:23
Kenny again a solid game. Williams better than recent games. Lennon non-stop.
93 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:05:05
94 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:06:04
95 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:07:10
Let's see if those tactics work next week.
96 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:07:56
97 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:08:04
Those who didn't want Allardyce and consider him beneath us will probably never accept him. They will likely post cynical comments and it will get very tiresome and dull. If he'd have won 6-0 today we'd have heard that “it wasn't his team” or “we should have scored 9 so he's crap” or “yeah 6 goals but if we were lousy at 0-0 and lucky to score first.” Et bleeding cetera.
Those prepared to at least give him a chance including me will be hoping the Everton manager and his fellow employees (former RS or not) succeed because the fact of the matter is that if HE succeeds then WE succeed.
If he was a convicted criminal I might have an issue but he isn't.
If he had a record of playing terrible football with well-resourced and successful clubs, I might also be cynical but he hasn't.
Sam Allardyce will never get a fair shout with some. They will continue to grandstand and play drama queen and talk crap about “the way the game should be played”. Just look where that approach has got us these past 3 years.
But I think the majority of Evertonians will give him a chance and accept winning football if it happens. I wish him luck.
98 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:08:35
Yes, but only 6 days ago, we were just that ourselves!
Let's walk before we can run. 6 vital points, and management that is showing signs of life.
99 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:09:20
Nowadays, being older, and no doubt wiser to the ways of the evil world, nothing should surprise us any longer about the main motivation in modern football it is money!
If, as it seems, you are seeking a hobby that is dripping with saintly virtue, I suggest you put behind you any association with modern football and look at something like croquet, because that is probably as close as you are going to get.
Meanwhile, if what you want is to see "Everton", return to its days of former glory, then I suggest you embrace the revolution and be prepared to mask your ethical concerns by getting behind Sam Allardyce and his team.
After several false starts and false dawns, hopefully, this is his chance at redemption and ours.
If you find yourself struggling with that concept, bear in mind the words of the late, great, Groucho Marx, when he said: "Those are my principles and if you don't like them I have others".
100 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:09:27
Good to see he had plenty to say about the players we have out injured and specifically how important is is to get Ross Barkley back.
That kind of talk will certainly make Ross feel wanted and he looks to be very much part of Sam's plans
101 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:11:02
I'm now happy drunk in The Thomas Frost.... Sammy Lee is a Evertonian!
102 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:14:35
They already abandoned defence when they brought a forward on for a defender and went to a back 3 so we sacrificed a midfielder for a defender it's called game management something we haven't seen for a long time.
103 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:14:47
Next week is a very different matter and we have to hope that Sam et al can come up with a plan that will enable us to get something out of the game.
104 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:24:49
I wouldn't be too sure about croquet. I used to know someone at work who played it. Bribery and corruption are rife with up to £5 regularly being back-handed behind the scenes. And it was all long punts up field. No flair at all.
(Admittedly most of the performance-enhancing drugs were to stop people either nodding-off or becoming incontinent).
Other than that, I agree with your post.
105 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:25:23
As I saw it from my seat in the Park End, Huddersfield Town were much quicker to the ball in the first half, and as soon as an Everton player won the ball, he quite often returned it just as quickly. I felt that it was going to be a case of "After the Lord Mayor's Parade", but the early goal in the second half led to a more confident performance.
The second goal obviously led to a more relaxed attitude on and off the pitch, and the only long-ball style of play I saw, came from our opponents in a desperate attempt to get back into the game.
As I stated at the beginning of this post, I believe we all see a different game, I have been critical of Cuco Martina in previous games, but today I thought that he, Jonjoe Kenny, Wayne Rooney, and Gylfi Sigurdsson put in a good performances, but the lad who sits next to me may have an entirely different opinion.
I hear so many fans say we need to 'win ugly', but when we do, [which I don't think we did today] the team are slated on various threads. And a word to Oliver [#74] the name of the Everton Manager is "Sam Allardyce"; a little bit of respect wouldn't go amiss.
106 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:37:15
Let's get behind the club and stay solid and embrace the future. More passion and sincerity from the new coaching staff than in 16 months of the Dutch crews reign.
Let's face the RS with conviction and belief. They already think they are gonna win the League, and it would bechandy to bring them down to earth next week. I'm not sure who the ref is but I hope it ain't Atkinson..
Have a good weekend All and enjoy the bevy tonight.
107 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:38:35
One thing I immediately noticed in the opening 10 minutes was that each man had their personal responsibility and space to control. Players weren't looking over their shoulder to see if someone else was going to go for a ball or close down a man. They just immediately took control of their responsibility. It was nice to see, even if we didn't string any passes together or generate any real offense.
Second half, we started passing it better right from the start. Before Calvert-Lewin set up the goal, he had a nice bit of hold up play, something he didn't do well in the first half. From there, the team seemed to get some of that feelgood factor back we got the second goal.
It's two wins on the bounce against poor sides that we should beat, but we were not beating before. Like him or not, Allardyce is the manager for the remainder of this season at least. I'm not expecting him to take us to the next level but I'd love to be surprised.
108 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:39:25
He also waxed lyrical about Holgate and Kenny in particular, saying they don't just have potential they are ready now.
Also, Michael and Lyndon, can we please ban use of the words 'crook' and 'convict' from posts.
This should really be about Everton and two wins and clean sheets on the bounce not about someone's opinion of an employee's character.
109 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:41:04
I thought the stand-outs were Jonjoe ( who looks very like Seamus, and I think Seamus may well have a problem getting his place back when he is fit) and Calvert-Lewin who led the line well, won aerial balls and had good link-up play, and of course got a goal. Williams and Holgate looked a solid pairing, albeit against an offensively very poor side.
A good start for Sam and Sammie. (Btw I think Duncan's job is safe, because who would dare tell him he's sacked?)
110 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:42:27
As for the Limassol game, we should play the Klaassens and Sandros of this world, as far as possible.
111 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:43:04
Take me down to the Allardyce City,
Where the ball is hoofed,
And we're like Stoke City.
Oh won't you please keep us up!
112 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:43:41
I think it would be wrong to point the finger Allardyce, Yes, he is renowned for getting his team to hump the ball forward at every opportunity, but we were doing it for a year before he got here,
It was obvious he would go with the team Rhino selected on Wednesday he'd have been a fool not to, but I think anyone getting excited about today needs to look at their lives, They must be a wow in the bedroom. You are a little premature darlings.
I also think the claim that the players jumped to attention at Sam's very presence in the stand on Wednesday night, was knocked so far out of the park it will probably end up somewhere in Cornwall later tonight. The players who bubbled and fizzed for Unsworth were as flat as a witch's tit today. The first half being a clear demonstration that Sam simply doesn't command that sort of respect from players who have played under better... I don't think I have ever seen such a lethargic first half from a team playing its first game for a new manager.
There were some positives: Three points, a clean sheet and a crowd who eventually cheered after some fine pieces of individual skill gave us what was eventually, a deserved win.
Special merit to the much maligned Dominic Calvert-Lewin. This kid doesn't do quitting and his endeavours were rewarded by a goal and a fabulous assist.
As for the manager: he will now know the size of his task. Like I say: he can't be blamed for the zombie football we saw in the first half. That presumably is one of the things he is expected to fix.
A win, a clean sheet and a couple of very nice goals is a perfectly acceptable start.
113 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:53:31
Aren't those being cynical also “a little premature darlings” to use your expression?
As for “the first half being a clear demonstration that Sam simply doesn't command that respect” nothing about a settling-in period given it's his first game in charge after being appointed 48 hours ago?
Some positives towards the end of your post and recognition that zombie football at EFC preceded Sam Allardyce despite huge levels of investment so let's be thankful for that.
114 Posted 02/12/2017 at 20:57:48
Not sure I can agree that your opinions should restrict the terms of discussion on here, Jay, and I'm quite certainly dead set against banning words that you don't happen to like.
You can do your best to sanitize his reputation, Jay, but it's not going to magically eradicate people's knowledge of the Telegraph's "bung sting". Nor his ignominious removal from the England post after just one game. Nor the fact that his career has been spent mostly managing the dross at the lower end of the Premier League.
A number of fans don't think he's the right man to be Everton Manager. That's not going to change magically overnight, whatever you post to the contrary. I expect it's going to take some people a while to get past that.
115 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:01:05
Today's first half proves this? Do me a favour!!! My necks not stiff because I was in Top Balcony. It is possible however, I'm blind, stupid and delusional.
116 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:01:55
It was a big task to take over from Koeman but I think if you have any coaching ability you see very early the formation and the best personnel for those positions. It was clear to me that Rooney should have been trying to dictate play in midfield as he does not have the same energy to play up front anymore.
Why could Unsworth not see this until his last game in charge instead of playing the failed duo of Gueye and Schneiderlin in that role??? If he had seen that role a couple of games sooner then he might still have the job.
All water under the bridge now. I would much sooner Big Sam over Koeman any day and while not my first choice I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and if he can get Ross to sign a new contract that would be the icing on the cake for me because with him alongside Rooney would be a great combination.
117 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:07:16
118 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:07:22
That is not being Cynical. that is telling it like it is,
If you think you can make a case for the players getting anywhere near their performances on Wednesday at any stage of that first half the get it up there.
You wont of course, You can't.
119 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:13:31
We're not quite Brazil, bit it's better ffs and we've won a few. Also at times we played some nice footy.
120 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:13:47
Here's the clue... listen carefully. he changed the team, He ousted the shirkers and brought in the workers... Do you see? Did you even notice?
That's why big Sam decided to copy him; granted not with the same effect, but he got a similar result.
121 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:13:52
The long ball option that Everton employed came from Jordan Pickford, and if you're inferring that this tactic is a Sam Allardyce introduction I beg to differ, because Pickford has been doing it since the beginning of the season.
I don't know if you viewed the game from Goodison Park or from some TV source, but I think it adds strength to my theory that we as supporters, watch the same match but see a different game.
122 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:13:54
Yes, I can. Off the top of my head.
On Wednesday we played a poor West Ham team beneath us in the league with a man who had been in charge for more than 48 hours.
Today, we played a team above us in the league with a man in charge for less than 48 hours.
Other variables included the nature / length of tenure of opposition management; strategies; formations etc.
I won't argue the toss as about to watch a movie. Have a good evening.
123 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:20:07
Totally agree. Clearly defamatory.
And we didn't have “Fat Ronald” or “Fat David” so why ....
Not that there would be any bias against the man like. I wouldn't dare suggest that.
124 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:20:27
However, they are better than the stock phrases oft used on these forums such as 'snake oil salesman' and 'charlatan' which make my blood boil and reflect keyboard warriors trying to sound intelligent.
126 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:23:18
127 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:30:02
It isn't games like today that will make my mind up about our new manager. It is the matches against the likes of Arsenal and our style of play that will reveal him.
He has no real excuse not to play with a certain amount of style given the personnel. If he can fix the porous defence, I expect a half decent finish with goals spread amongst Niasse, Calvert-Lewin, Rooney and Sigurdsson.
Sandro and Klaassen are in trouble. I'd like to see both prevail but cannot see either fitting into this system now or being preferable to what is in there. As for Mirallas, think he might be struggling for game time.
128 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:30:48
I got brickbats for a comment around 47 where I called him a crook myself. I just don't want this character managing our club. I think he puts a stain or our reputation. I think he's here, no matter what he says, for the cash, and all this crap about "It's Everton, how could I say no?" is just flannel for the gullible. After all, he didn't say Yes the first time he was offered "Everton", did he?
When he was first appointed, the verdict on here was about 50/50 and it just strikes me that, two good results later, all is forgiven and we'll take a "dodgy" manager if it means the team does well. Maybe I'm too sanctimonious, maybe I expect too much, maybe modern football is just a totally corrupt, money-obsessed business with Big Sam no better or worse than most, but I just thought EFC were better than this.
I will always be a Blue, I'll always want us to win and do well, I'll always want us to beat the opposition, but while this guy is in charge, things will never quite sit well with me, and all the dull, dogged 2-0 home wins over relegation fodder in the world won't change that.
129 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:32:42
In a perfect world, we would have a team full of De Bruyne, Aquero, Mane, Salah, Silva, Ozil, Pogba, de Gea, Sanchez, Coutinho.... (I could go on) in our team and we could play the opposition off the park.
Face the facts we don't have players that the top 6 teams covet except maybe Barkley and a fit Coleman and that's stretching itl; he two we had that they wanted have gone, predictably.
Allardyce has already said that every match is different and we will play in a way that gives us the best chance of winning. That's perfect logic to me; against the top 6 sides you're going to have to be very fortunate to beat them at their own game. By all means play a more expansive game against the rest of the Premier League when it suits us to play that way.
Until we are able to afford and attract the very best players to our club, I would suggest that winning football is the first priority, however it is achieved.
130 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:35:59
I didn't make myself clear. I meant a proper case.
This is a team who were spanked for five going on ten last week. A team who were spanked by the shite, a team who will do well to win an away game between now and May. West Ham have better players and like us have been mismanaged.
You see this is the problem with you happy clappers; I give a fair assessment of the game, I exonerate the manager of blame for poor play and I state very clearly that it was a "perfectly acceptable start". I even praise the quality of the goals... but it's not enough for you. Unless people post they are "deliriously happy" and "excited" with an infinitely forgettable performance, you are labelled as "prematurely cynical".
I have spent a year trying to fend off people trying to sell me grass skirts and kites... I didn't buy then and I won't be buying now
131 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:41:23
He wasn't my choice either but given that Ancelotti, Tuchel, Simeone et al were either disinterested or unavailable I believe we've made the right decision.
Sir John is held in the highest reverence but was well know for passing brown envelopes around the dressing room after every good game. And I'm sure most ToffeeWebbers haven't been saints all their lives so a little bit of tolerance wouldn't go amiss now would it.
132 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:42:22
Commercial break in movie - so last comment until tomorrow.
Not convinced by your response at all.
Very, very lame.
Thanks for the ‘happy clapper comment though.
Thats a first for me and cheered me up.
I wish you a similarly pleasant evening. Cheers!
133 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:43:40
Kenny, Calvert-Lewin and Pickford a big plus in recent games. Something positive for the season at least.
134 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:44:04
I hate you! I have some bruised ribs and you made me laugh when I wasn't expecting anything funny! This is TW, after all...
135 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:48:02
136 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:53:36
He's more like us that you dare imagine!
137 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:54:01
There, I said it.
138 Posted 02/12/2017 at 21:55:27
139 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:08:29
Nice football is always a bonus, but the result is everything.
140 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:13:24
141 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:16:05
And to any older Evertonians who are affronted by Allardyce regarding his off field issues, I will just say 'Tony Kay' who has long been painted as a victim of a media stitch up.
If you think Allardyce is a shit manager, just say so because all this 'stain on our reputation' is bullshit because we seem to have plenty of dirty laundry. In fairness to Sam, his actions have never led to the loss of peoples's livelihoods and their pensions (allegedly!)
142 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:33:22
However, a clean sheet on his first game is progress as we have shipped way too many goals this year. We have seen a lot of dross this season and we can play like the Crazy Gang of 1988 for all I care if it gets us away from relegation. I am not expecting Sam to ever get us playing like City but we need a bit of stability and Sam might just be the answer...for the moment.
We cannot be relegated... Pure and simple. We should be aiming for the top six of course, but we have been awful for most of the season. I don't think I will be getting my grass skirt out just yet...it's not really the time of year for it anyway. However, I may just stick on my Bermuda shorts in celebration of 6 goals and 2 clean sheets in 2 games.
I don't care if the opposition were not all that and, yes, I do worry for the derby. However, as it stands right now, I feel a whole lot better than this time last week. For that reason, Sam, I raise a glass to ya and I wish you well for the rest of the season. COYB.
143 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:40:11
Some good performances with Kenny continuing to improve along with Calvert-Lewin, Lennon putting in another good shift, Williams improved and organising vocally, Gana full of energy; it wasn't pretty but it was effective.
Lots of room for improvement but give this coaching team time and let's see what they can do little by little; they might just surprise us.
144 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:55:09
With that in mind I hope Allardyce has been allowed to nominate who he wants in January with the board's assurance that he'll get what he requires. If he does he'll have to show what he's all about by May.
Frankly I think it's a little daft to start laying into Allardyce as some have said they will in the event we get another shite result against our neighbours next week. Unsworth was rightly mostly supported for over five weeks given his difficulty in transforming a squad he was hugely aware of before he started so to hammer Allardyce for failure next week, if it happens, is gratuitous as far as I'm concerned.
If we get a shite result against them at our place in April it'll be a different matter though.
145 Posted 02/12/2017 at 22:56:29
The West Ham result was just one of those things. They could have easily have scored twice after the break when they missed a pen and hit the bar. Rooney will never score another hat trick for us and certainly wont score a goal like his third which he claimed to be the 'best' that he's 'ever hit a ball'.
We looked much more solid today against Huddersfield. They never had a sniff of a chance really. You can question the quality of their team but we've already conceded twice to a side that managed only 4 goals prior to playing us and 4 to a team that like Huddersfield today only had 9 goals from their previous fixtures. If you are bad enough you can concede to just about anyone.
I would back us to be much more resolute and concede less goals from the same number of fixtures under Allardyce than we did under Unsworth.
146 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:19:48
Who says he was offered Everton first time round? If memory serves, he took himself out of the running as we were hedging our bets
Fact is he's here and while he's our manager I will support him. His interviews speaking about our club as if he's one of us is far more than Koeman or Martinez managed.
(Moyes I felt was bitten by the Everton bug as served by all his games against us since. 😀)
147 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:21:17
148 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:31:52
The last thing we needed was to ship a goal early on. The players look to be gaining some confidence thanks to Unsy and Sam and some of the interplay (not a lot of it ) was good. Few mistakes. Onwards and upwards.
Considering a couple of weeks ago I was expecting us to ship double figures in Mordor; then (whilst not expecting a win), I am a lot happier
149 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:37:58
Do you want 8-0? Players scoring from the halfway line? Cartwheels? Maybe a streaker would make your day more appealing?
I never understand the mentality behind the comments when we win games without conceding a goal personally I don't see what could be better about a performance when you win with a clean sheet, and evidently having watched the managers interviews, neither can he!
150 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:43:24
151 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:44:00
152 Posted 02/12/2017 at 23:47:36
Unless I am very much mistaken, the self same Sam Allardyce then beat said FSW's Liverpool team, with his much maligned Bolton Wanderers team
No doubt someone on here will be able to confirm / clarify / debunk this story... However, that's how I remember it.
Ever since then, everyone has derided Big Sam's credentials without (in my opinion) any foundation, other than that emanating from the mouth of TFSW.
153 Posted 03/12/2017 at 00:09:06
154 Posted 02/12/2017 at 00:09:28
My reasons are simple, in so far as it strikes me that you do not live in the "real" world.
In your post at 128 you say " I don't want him managing "OUR" club.
How many shares do you own in "OUR" club , Gary?
We can speak about "our" club , in euphemistic terms, but, in reality, it is a football team of whom we chose to follow the fortunes.
We may be STHs or members of any number of other myriad organisations connected with the club or its supporter organisations.
However, whatever else it is, it is not "OUR" club.
Until you or I, can stump up 1/5th of a billion pounds, to take your / my seat on the board, the choice of manager, or any other member of staff, is never going to be yours (nor mine).
If I were you, I would therefore stop troubling myself about these decisions and either get behind the team ( in its widest sense) that we have chosen to support, 0r, as I said earlier, find a pursuit that sits happier with your conscience.
155 Posted 03/12/2017 at 00:14:25
156 Posted 03/12/2017 at 00:19:35
Human nature being what it is, people will more readily accept and digest bad news, as opposed to the contrary.
I am not defending Sam, but wasn't the bung sting operation, recorded him saying basically it goes on in football, I can tell you how to get round third party ownership, or something to that effect, he wasn't actually caught doing it.
I may be wrong, but that was my interpretation of what went on.
No doubt someone will clarify or dispute this.
157 Posted 03/12/2017 at 00:27:49
158 Posted 03/12/2017 at 00:48:40
159 Posted 02/12/2017 at 00:59:29
I also like the size and depth of the new coaching team and as others have commented Sammy Lee and Duncan getting on the pitch and shouting and motivating players all as Big Sam is on the blower to Shakes in the stand.
I also liked his comments on some of the younger players dismissing the words when asked about their potential and replacing it with this is reality they are doing it now, they are very impressive kind of messages.
He is also talking great things about Everton and the pride in this being his dream job fantastic to hear and with no little emotion in his voice. There is echoes of Reidy, Brace and Andy Gray who are close friends of his having wound him up.
Would it not be great to see Sammy Lee punching the air if we score next weekend! Imagine the reaction of the other half they would be in meltdown.
The other thing that has dawned on me is that we are going to have a ring side seat to see what a top professional manager does and after the well documented weaknesses of messers Koeman, Moyes, Smith and Martinez it will be a refreshing and hopefully inspirational to see Sam and team do their stuff and leave us to be united behind them and to really get behind everyone at the club.
160 Posted 03/12/2017 at 01:04:55
Perhaps more positive take . :-)
Take me down to the Allardyce City,
Where Rooney's Rockin,
And the footballs pretty
Oh won't you please Win the Cup!
Sure others can think of better lyrics and a couple more verses .
161 Posted 03/12/2017 at 01:22:11
162 Posted 03/12/2017 at 01:25:42
On loan to Sunderland along with Galloway. Sunderland have the aforementioned 2 players on loan from us, plus Oviedo, Gibson, Rodwell, McGeady and Vaughan. 7 current/ex-Everton players, plus last season they had Lescott and Anichebe, not to mention Moyes. I spent quite a lot of time in Sunderland so often check on their results!
163 Posted 03/12/2017 at 01:28:33
The last few haven't been up to much and Sam has some progressive coaching philosophies (first to used Prozone etc)
Let's get behind the new management team.
164 Posted 03/12/2017 at 01:33:32
165 Posted 03/12/2017 at 02:01:31
They would have been more than useful additions, Jason, considering all the fixtures we had early season with the Europa League and the fact that Williams, Jagielka and Baines are veterans who needed to be rested to get the best out of them.
166 Posted 03/12/2017 at 04:45:39
No wonder I am a paranoid Evertonian!
Echo headlines: 'Everton Verdict - Big Sam presents his calling card as Allardyce era begins with a win against Huddersfield'
Suggesting Long ball tactics, it really really wasn't. The two goals were really good moves!
167 Posted 03/12/2017 at 04:56:38
Oh, and 9 English players overall! I know we have been crap, but last season we were much less crap, similar situation, but never really mentioned! Yes, paranoia is alive and well here!
Just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they ain't watching you!
168 Posted 03/12/2017 at 06:30:58
In reality, this job is already too big for him now that we are 10th - his "strength" is to steer teams towards those giddy heights then leave or get sacked. I am sure that if he could sign Kevin Davies to solve our striker problems he would! Just limited in every sense of the word.
As for him being tagged a 'crook' or 'convict', it's maybe too harsh so I will stop tagging him as crooked. Dodgy Sam is a better and more appropriate.
169 Posted 03/12/2017 at 06:41:59
170 Posted 03/12/2017 at 08:02:40
If the case ever came to court, the judge would throw it out, particularly as the question had been asked by an "agent provocateur",
For some reason , the newspapers in this country felt the need to discredit SA, when he became England manager, and managed to do it in this most underhand way.
171 Posted 03/12/2017 at 08:14:57
I am fed up with the trial of "everybody" by the gutter press in this country.
For God's sake, let's move away from the Jeremy Kyle, school of thought, for once, and make our own decisions on the evidence before us.
Furthermore, why would he sign Kevin Davies now - Kevin is past it?
I appreciate that this is an "illustration" on you part, but he has Oumar at his disposal - someone else that has been pilloried, denied a locker and generally vilified by all and sundry, on the word of a man we eventually sacked for incompetence.
Perhaps he can become the "new" Kevin Davies?
If he is half as effective, I, for one, will be delighted.
172 Posted 03/12/2017 at 08:44:54
Mr Allardyce is renown for his innovative, ahead of the rest adoption of science, data, innovation and progressive approaches.
He has stated he wants more technical skilful styles of football and he will try to bring that forward.
Some are exaggerating potential subjective styles or approaches of SA's past teams. Some on here shouting the death knell of our youth program. Yesterday when one commentator suggested potential he jumped back at them and said no they are delivering now for real.
One of his traits is he likes top top quality up front and the goals that were scored yesterday had flair, movement and passing. SA talked about more give and go's, passing and technical football being the way he would like to get the best out of this squad.
The negative angst types on here will use any device and in particular subjective miss truths delivered with spite, anger and hyperbole to make their positon and their disturbance on our blue community.
Next week in the derby is going to be full off opportunities for this bunch of non supporters. These detractors will point to a defeat and then heap more negative hyperbole. I have already heard derogatory toned predictions that SA will start with five defenders and two midfielders Blah Blah Blah.
The top sides often Park the bus, set up defensively away from home. Look at UTD and Mourinho who PARKS THE BUS regularly.
It will take to the end of January for SA to sort the jigsaw out and have a plan for the rest of the season.
Ross may be part of that, so will new additions, so will the foreign fringe players if they take up the challenge, so will the youth, so will his new coaching, fitness and performance teams.
Lets all bring positive support to our great club, which I believe is set up for success with Mr Allardyce and our new coaching team in charge.
Great times ahead! COYB's
173 Posted 03/12/2017 at 08:53:01
Why not, Grant??
174 Posted 03/12/2017 at 08:59:47
Those older followers of the club will remember that Joe Royle's tenure ended in a dispute with Johnson over murky Scandinavian transfer dealings.
Nobody calls Joe a crook so leave it out, support the club or bail.
175 Posted 03/12/2017 at 09:00:52
The referee was poor. He let 5 fouls go in the first few minutes (3 by Huddersfield, 2 by us) then started to penalise everything and yellow-carded several players. Tom Davies was particularly unfortunate, being treated very roughly in the those early stages then being booked for a fairly innocuous challenge.
We had 4 free-kicks in promising positions in the first half, from about 35m out from goal. Huddersfield held an extremely high defensive line and we were suckered into being offside or hitting the free kick into their goalies hands. It would have been nice to see the players thinking about the situation, telling the attackers not to be offside, and getting someone to run from deep, through the defensive line, to receive the ball in the gap between the defenders and the goalie. It was pretty obvious to see from an elevated position in the Main Stand, lets hope our man in the stand can start passing messages to the earpiece of our man on the touchline.
176 Posted 03/12/2017 at 09:12:28
Regarding the coaching team, and where they have played or coached previously, again I don't care. They are employees of the club, and the club pays them to do a job. If they do it, great, if they don't, they will be sacked. I don't expect them to "lie" to us by claiming they have always loved the club, or have secretly worn Everton pyjamas. I don't need them to be passionate about our club, I need them to be passionate about doing their job.
Turning to Sam Allardyce, we are his 7th Premier League club that he managed. I would be confident in saying that the previous six were a very different scenario. Not much money, not a great squad of players and more often than not, in the relegation zone. He had to do, what he had to do, with the budget and players he inherited.
I think this job is different, yes we are struggling at the moment, but we have money and quality players. If he gets those players playing to their potential, he won't have to resort to "hoofball".
Allardyce is an English manager and as such, is unfashionable with the "Big" clubs. I wonder what he would have done if he had been given the job at Chelsea, or Man Utd. I dare say he would have done a better job than Mooyes or Van Gaal.
So in saying that, I think the Everton job is the biggest he has had (England job aside), and we might see him playing in a way that a big club can allow him to.
I wish him luck. If he succeeds then the club will succeed, and we, as supporters will be happy.
Win first, win with style second. I hope he does both.
177 Posted 03/12/2017 at 09:19:18
It was very different to the arms folded, solitary figure of Martinez and the singular, isolationist Koeman.
Also interesting to see Sammy Lee shouting instructions too. Big Duncan was very keen to use the timing facility on his big watch.
178 Posted 03/12/2017 at 09:26:04
179 Posted 03/12/2017 at 09:26:55
180 Posted 03/12/2017 at 09:55:58
Derby Day next week. Sadly the RS are looking good. This will be our most pivotal game for a long time. I think this will also be a massive test for Big Sam. Closing down Salah and Couthino, is the priority.
181 Posted 03/12/2017 at 10:03:55
Derby Day next week. Sadly the RS are looking good. This will be our most pivotal game for a long time. I think this will also be a massive test for Big Sam. Closing down Salah and Couthino, is the priority.
182 Posted 03/12/2017 at 10:22:53
183 Posted 03/12/2017 at 10:30:29
Top strikers in Premier League history like Shearer and Owen continued playing for years after their final hat-trick and couldn't manage another one. And again, Rooney is no longer a striker. We aren't even a free flowing, goal scoring team, which would make it easier for someone to score a hat-trick.
He doesn't normally takes pens (Baines does) and his third goal isn't something you see very often. Maybe the statement should have read 'In all likelihood Wayne Rooney will never score another hat-trick for us' ? Do you think that he will?
184 Posted 03/12/2017 at 10:55:18
However, when it comes to games against the top sides, I suspect it will be a very different challenge and Little and Large may well have first sight of the problems that so challenged their predecessor. Ignoring the arse end of the Europa League in midweek, next Sunday's trip across the park will be the real test in discovering just what needs to be done to re-establish us as a regular '7th place plus' team.
My big fear is that the backbone of this squad is so weak that a couple of early Red strikes could well see us on the wrong side of a 4- or 5-niller and thus seemingly back to square one. But that won't necessarily be the case only presenting the challenge of how quickly the new management team can repair the damage as well as recognise what needs to be done in the winter transfer window.
Despite these fears, I shall, as usual be risking my money on a Blues victory but with absolutely no expectation of a return.
185 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:22:13
was it really only 7 days ago were were playing Southampton in the 1:30 pm Sky match?
What next? An away win? ... I dare to dream.
186 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:24:39
Breaking news a team fails to perform as well in a game following one in which they performed quite well. When did that happen before?!
And "Sam doesn't command respect..." Based on what evidence? Ah, 45 minutes of poor football. Well that's a solid argument.
We know the agenda. We get it.
188 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:31:41
I thought we struggled in the first half but, as we know, goals change games, and we improved after Sigurdsson's goal.
I thought Rooney was the best player on the park and seems to be revelling in the role that Unsworth played him on Wednesday and Allardyce kept him there. After the second goal, they started to play with confidence and on Wednesday and yesterday we got to see glimpses of why Koeman wanted Sigurdsson.
I just think he might have been better playing in Tom Davies role rather than being played wide left. Tom's form seems to be in and out at the moment but we should remember how young he is to play in centre midfield. Kenny and Holgate impressed again, and it looks like both might now become regulars.
I understand Allardyce wants to have a look at everybody in a game, but I couldn't understand why he took Rooney off with 10 minutes to go. Had Huddersfield scored then, he might have regretted that substitution.
I hope he doesn't revert back to Schneiderlin back in midfield, he has lost a yard of pace and has become totally ineffective. I was pleased to see Allardyce giving Lookman more game time.
So, all-in-all, a good steady start. Not quite sure how having Craig Shakespeare in your ear from the stands while having conversations with Lee and Ferguson is going to work. But time will tell.
189 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:35:57
Next week will be a hell of a game. It's going to take a lot of discipline to come out of it with anything at all.
190 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:42:04
In this sense, such incessant negativity is self-defeating, often appearing self-parodying. I do wonder at the motivation for it.
191 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:46:04
Easy answers to your questions... in fact very easy.
The shirkers of this team have been the experienced players. I don't think anybody will question the effort of people like Davies, Calvert-Lewin, and Kenny. The problem is, they are kids and just about any manager in top flight football would prefer to put this kind of responsibility on experience players. Unsworth was no different. But after giving them a fair crack, he ditched them and turned to the youngsters the workers.
Playing Rooney in a deep role was a good call and it was a little disappointing to see him running round trying to win the game from everywhere yesterday. Big Sam wisely followed Rhino's lead by sticking with his team... pity he didn't give them the same instructions.
You "claim" the result against West Ham was just "one of those things"... You`re right, it was, one of those times when one team thrashes another. We won 4-0... FOUR NIL!!! And we could very easily have had more. Sure, West Ham had a spell, that generally happens in this league.
You also want to convince people that we looked more solid defensively, but that was against a side which has created the fewest chances on the road in the league. Not since the opening day have they breached an opposition defence on the road. It's very easy to defend against a team which doesn't attack... I'll reserve judgement on how solid we look when we go to Mordor.
You open your post questioning if Unsworth is a good coach? Well he managed to beat off some fierce opposition to be given an award for his coaching skills this week... I wonder why that was? I also wonder what the chances are of Big Sam wining an award for his primitive caching skills???
As far as I am concerned, the ungracious claims made about our best performance of the season on Wednesday were washed away down the drain and I don't feel I have any more to say on the matter.
192 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:47:39
I'm trying not to generalise, but I believe that today's supporter is in the main, less tolerant than we were, possibly because they're kept more up to date via the excellent technology, and where you and I had an audience of maybe six or seven in the pub, they can now exchange opinions on a world-wide scale.
In fairness, the vast majority of contributors to ToffeeWeb debates offer sound constructive observations, but it's my belief that a minority have the bigoted bullying attitude of, "If you don't agree, with me there's something wrong with you."
The love of football in general and Everton in particular should bring us all together; it's obvious we can't agree on everything, but let's disagree in a civilised manner, and leave the mudslinging to outsiders.
"So endeth the sermon" best wishes to all, as we all want the same thing.
193 Posted 03/12/2017 at 11:49:14
I do know one thing: this squad, that cost over £200m to assemble, has to be the most workmanlike I have ever seen play at Goodison Park. How have we built a side that doesn't posses a single player who will get you off your seat? Utterly joyless.
I am actually thinking of giving it a miss next season, Koeman & Walsh have turned us into West Brom. We are the definition of a mid-table side who play like a Sunday League side. The only player who could turn a game with a moment of magic can't wait to leave.
Teerrrrrrrrnnnnn, Rossss. God help us next week, we are in for a proper hiding. Deservedly so.
194 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:10:57
The couple who exude that constant negativity, must be exhausting, are now the pavement proclaimers. You know, the one in town shouting, "Jesus is the answer" and "Repent or you'll be forced to wear red". We hear them, smile, then continue on with our obligations.
Keep proclaiming though, it keeps things interesting.
195 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:13:39
Yes, I do!
196 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:15:33
Niasse was available for yesterday's game, he just didn't get on the pitch. He was banned for the loss at Southampton and win against West Ham.
197 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:33:27
The team was clearly a little fatigued and jaded yesterday during the first half after playing on Wednesday night. You can't expect the same eleven to have the same energy after working their socks off 66 hours earlier.
In any job, if you get a new boss and he observes your working standards and ethics, you up your game. Of course you do.
The argument is pointless. Unsworth has been replaced and we should all get behind his replacement. John's post at 192 says it all.
198 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:45:58
Sam Allardyce was never my choice for reasons that had more to do with his off-field activities, but he's now the manager and he deserves a chance and time to improve the team.
A word of caution though: yesterday's result was most welcome, but Huddersfield have not scored an away league goal since the first day of the season, so perhaps a little perspective is needed.
If he integrates Ross Barkley back into the team, I'll see that as a positive first step.
199 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:53:52
200 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:54:01
I don't have a problem with those who have an opinion contrary to mine (wouldn't be much fun on a forum would it if everyone agreed all of the time) but I do take issue with those that use condescending comments such as "Let me spell it out for you", "take a good look at yourself", " let me join the dots for you", "Here's the clue, listen carefully" etc. No fellow Evertonian should be patronised like that.
As for constant negativity, Jay, Kevin (#193) reckons we going to get a deserved hiding at Anfield, next week. And we haven't even set foot on the pitch yet!
201 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:55:54
202 Posted 03/12/2017 at 12:58:10
Sorry John I suspect I was typing myself when you addressed me at 121, whatever the reason I didn't see it.
To answer you question John; No I don't think you are blind or delusional and having read most of your posts, I know for a fact that you're not stupid.
If you read my post again, John, I do state that I didn't hold the new manager responsible for the long balls yesterday. As you rightly say, the main culprits have been doing it all season. Young Pickford is a hell of a prospect, but in my opinion he simply has to stop booting the ball as far as he can.
People like Williams are a lost cause regarding this issue. I saw the ball go from back to front on numerous occasions yesterday; whilst I can accept your point that it has been happening all season, I can't for the life of me understand those denying the evidence of their own eyes and claiming it didn't happen.
Yes, you're right, it is pointless now, a week is a long time in football and it's already yesterday's argument.
203 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:04:20
There's a couple on here who I genuinely believe are almost willing us to get battered next week just so they can smugly tell everyone "I told you so". They need to have a word with themselves.
I didn't cheer for Sam Allardyce yesterday, I didn't cheer for Unsworth during the game on Wednesday, I cheered for the players on the pitch for the 90-odd minutes of the game. And I tell you what: I came away from both those games feeling a lot happier than I've felt for what seems a lifetime.
No, we weren't perfect; no there weren't any/many De Bruyne type moments but if you can't feel a bit more positive than you have done lately, then there's something wrong with you.
Some of you seem to have forgotten what supporting their football club entails. And don't give me the "we set our standards higher than you" bollocks. We all want displays of free-flowing faultless football with goals going in all over the place. That's not going to happen any time soon, and we all know that.
But those "supporters" who can't wait to get on here next week and revel in defeat, and you know who you are... well I can't even think what to say to you.
204 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:04:29
And of course you are right John (#192). It is so obviously right to most on here.
205 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:08:28
I suspect he said he "didn't know" what I fear he suspects, or does know with regard to there already being a deal in place for Ross to leave.
If that's the case, I think it was a very clever way of airing it.
206 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:14:45
207 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:30:55
I would say Calvert-Lewin's backheel for Sigurdsson to score was De Bruynesque except it didn't get a mention on MotD, so I guess it wasn't. Of course, if De Bruyne had done it... well, we can imagine the fanfare.
The same as Pickford's save was commentated on as him spilling it, when I saw a brave save. Perspectives, eh...
208 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:36:00
209 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:36:47
210 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:39:07
I suspect that much of it is directed from one person to another, where neither are acquainted. I feel that the language and implied tone, might be suitable for a barroom discussion with mates, but certainly not with unseen and unknown people.
I don't know if it's a generation thing, but as boy I was told that "Manners Maketh The Man" and I have always attempted to adhere to that principle. Another thing I find distasteful is the use of some of the swearwords , I'm not a prude, in fact I know most of them [and I even know what some of them mean].
It's just that I'm mindful of the fact that this site is accessible to youngsters, and young ladies, who may find it offensive; for that reason, I tend not to use that kind of language in any comment I may post. I apologise for veering off course, but sometimes I get carried away.
211 Posted 03/12/2017 at 13:52:50
212 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:08:01
I very much enjoy reading your posts. I think the impatience comes from being able to see more games of other leagues, and teams within your own league, these days. Being able to watch more games and styles of play leads to comparing your own team to those teams and wondering why your club isn't getting results or playing some other way (even if your players don't fit other styles).
Everton is not the only game in town so to speak when a TV or computer screen can bring Juve, Bayern, FC Cincinnati, and Real Madrid right into your own living room, and information on the club and players is easily and readily accessed. That plus the money in the game and the press and player rumors has impacted the patience of the fans.
As for Big Sam being credited for this win, well I am not so sure that the credit doesn't go to David Unsworth. I am not an Unsworth supporter but it seems to me that he finally found the right combination for the present that works in the handful of games he was given to sort out the Koeman mess.
Is Big Sam really a genius because he could white-out the date, opposing team, and manager's name from the West Ham line-up sheet and fill in the corrected information? I am pretty sure a random fan or maybe even a five-year-old could do such a task competently. You all will excuse me if I wait to place the olive wreath on his head. I may have to enlarge it anyway should he actually earn it.
213 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:08:09
We have just beaten two pretty poor teams. The real test is going to be when we go a goal behind. We'll learn plenty then.
214 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:29:30
215 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:35:43
I recall a couple of years ago Ken had a 'sabbatical' due, I think, to health problems.
Whatever the reasons for recent silence, I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing Ken well and good health and a speedy return to his seat from where he pens his always erudite, insightful, humorous, just, balanced and entertaining match reports.
They are sorely missed by this poster at least.
216 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:38:00
These lads are our future and if some Evertonians can't recognise their talent and see their potential, then I really do despair. Like you said, some people on here are just waiting for any excuse to rip the players/club apart which is quite sad really.
Brian (#205 – yes, you again). I think not only has Ross already been sold but Onyekuru as well. I doubt we will ever see this lad play for us.
217 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:52:12
218 Posted 03/12/2017 at 14:53:43
I know exactly what you mean, mate. Went on NewsNow after yesterday's game and saw one of the headlines "He must be drunk." Clicked on it to see that it was taken from Twatter where a supposed Evertonian had made the comment with regard to Holgate's performance.
Apart from one or two stray passes, the lad was outstanding. Can't understand some people!!
219 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:01:30
I would agree mate. Sublime touch from Calvert-Lewin who I thought was outstanding throughout the game. Couldn't believe Sigurdsson questioned whether Dom meant it when he (Siggy) was interviewed after the game. Think if Siggy watched MotD he'd owe Dom a bit of an apology.
There was another "moment" which I thought stood out too and that was when Jonjoe got the ball around the halfway line and drove forward and then very quickly changed direction which wrong-footed at least two of their players near him. It was subtly done but it's the little things like that that "do" get some of us off our seats. Another youngster playing really well for us.
220 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:02:16
Maybe you can express those sentiments to those who are pillorying our manager. No different.
221 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:10:25
We are 5 weeks away from going a full calendar year without a win away from home. Stop kidding yourselves we are a good side. I'm disgusted at the waste of hundreds of millions, when we had a chance to actually build something. Sorry about that.
I enjoyed the three points (and pints) yesterday, to end on a positive.
222 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:14:38
Can't completely agree. If any player is selected for Everton they are subject to both the glory and ire of any poster, regardless of age.
Where I do agree is when the criticism isn't framed within the context of a game or period of time. Criticism for the sake of is pointless.
Calvert-Lewin is a good case in point. His last two games have been pivotal to our performance and he should be lauded for it.
The perfect Everton combo; heart endeavour and no little skills. Love a fancy flick me.
But prior to that he had been poor in a number of games, and proportionate criticism would be fair imo.
Like anything, rough with the smooth, and let's face it, when you set a high bar as a player, that criticism comes quickly because expectations are high.
Is that the ultimate back-handed compliment?
223 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:38:19
You must have read that on some other site that either hurriedly, or maliciously (...), misquoted the original interview. This is what it read like on the OS:
“I'm not sure if he meant it he said he did so we'll go with that,” Sigurdsson joked. “No, it was a good assist and it was nice to get the first goal, which set us up for the rest of the game."
224 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:42:04
We as fans do a have a role to play yes, enjoy banter, analysis and sharing different aspects from different points of view... but do not let selfish, indolent, bigotry-led, abusive, ill-disciplined and rude behaviour spill over to creating a negative environment where our players feel we are not on their side and then they lose confidence and fear playing for fear of unjust criticism.
It is tenfold worse when it is done to young talented players that are learning their trade and developing in front of our eyes. If we do love our club, then we have a duty to support those players with "Good try" when they try something positive and it does not come off or run back and do a goal-saving challenge not shout negative abuse and break the confidence and risk them failing to make it at EFC.
As Mr Allardyce has underlined in his initial interviews, the players' confidence needs to be rebuilt and football is largely in the mind; it is a psychological sport and mental strength is as important as physical strength. We as fans have a duty to our club and to our fellow supporters to create a supportive environment where our players and especially our younger ones can flourish.
It would be amazing if we the body of Everton supporters took this watershed moment in our history and properly got behind our players and really helped transform our fortunes. As Sam Allardyce has said we are all in this together let us, as the supporters, do our bit not work for the enemy! COYBs
225 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:45:26
John (#222) you want to subject a 19-year-old who looks like an outstanding prospect to your ire? Takes all sorts.
226 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:53:22
None of these kids would have been expected to start so many games but injuries and loss of form have forced our managers' (plural) hand(s) this season. Not all of them will make the grade but they've shown a lot of courage imo.
227 Posted 03/12/2017 at 15:54:09
I don't think any of us are kidding ourselves we're a good side. All we're doing, mate, is being happy that we're not quite as shite as we've been.
You've got to be happy with improvement, with winning games, with not conceding... haven't you?
I'm certainly going to enjoy the wins as and when I can; that's why we go the game!
228 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:01:44
Read again. I described appropriate, contextual criticism for any player, as well as the appropriate compliments as I outlined. What's his age got to do with it? If he's good enough to be selected, then age is irrelevant; he could be more mentally robust than Mirallas, for example.
You are placing you own confirmation bias that young players should be protected. Why?
Look at Jonjoe Kenny, thrown in and looked at all at sea, that's not unfair or over the top. Yet, in the space of 5/6 weeks, he has come on with every game. If he had been protected in the way you think, then Unsworth would have not selected him. That would have only held him back.
Character is what counts, and testing it is often the way you find out. The criticism, framed correctly, would be fair. Praise alone lacks balance; appropriate criticism helps too.
This is part of a bigger narrative on here at the moment that the forum is just an echo chamber, with the opposing views just getting stronger.
Balance is everything.
229 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:17:10
230 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:29:08
The way you frame that, I would agree. Courage is right, impressive in my book. Way better than others with more experience.
I have strong, often hard-formed opinions in life, mostly because I grew up in a "sink or swim" environment. Age was no protection; character was key. Criticism was real and often hard but never unjustified; it made me better. There is a grain of truth in every opinion.
Our young players are in a very similar situation. So I believe, if criticism is valid, then fair dos.
What I don't believe in is agenda-based bashing of any player. There has to be the evidence and context to build an arguement.
I'll go back to Jonjoe Kenny: in the frame of the game at Leicester, he was poor; he struggled, as did most of the team, but a tough day for him and no denying his error compounded it.
Balance that with the performances since and the mistake not being repeated he has been really good. Solid in the tackle, and we are just starting to see his attacking intent. The criticism though was fair.
I think that's accurate? Don't you? That's what this forum should be about.
231 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:39:36
232 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:39:38
You catch my drift though? Appropriate or proportionate.
233 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:41:31
On another note, some people on here (and I'm not a huge Big Sam fan btw) were saying Sam's appointment meant the end of the road for many of our youngsters this season as he'd go for a bunch of old pros to see us safe.
I disagreed at the time and now I feel vindicated by Sam singing the praises of the likes of Kenny, Davies, Calvert-Lewin and Lookman. I honestly think he will be excited by having so much young, local talent at his disposal and will use them sensibly.
234 Posted 03/12/2017 at 16:45:06
Yaaay we're better than Man City!!!!
235 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:00:06
Very good post.
Debate and criticism is all part of the wonderful tapestry of football but the arrival has seen such debate stray into profanity and name-calling a little too often lately and many people being declared as 'bad supporters'.
I know familiarity breeds contempt but ultimately we're all on the same side. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to disagree with others but to claim someone is not a proper supporter because they strongly differ from your stance is over the top.
236 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:07:16
237 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:07:35
I was actually trying to say that you weren't calling for over-the-top criticism but restrained, proportionate... and so acceptable.
238 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:11:46
The site is treated as a bit of a cyber pub. Many, myself included, have been guilty of addressing people as you would in the pub. It doesn't always translate well.
There is undoubtedly a difference between the generations. I can see a very marked difference between the way the likes of you Rick and Dave A conduct yourselves and the way most of the rest of us do.
I personally don't have a problem with the gloves coming off. I have a far bigger problem with the hypocrisy of those who can be pretty vindictive and abusive one day and full of pious indignation the next, or those who can be really critical of one manager then try to pigeon hole others as being "negative" for criticising the next.
As a senior Blue, your views should be respected. Your own conduct and that of other posters (unsurprisingly mainly from your age group) is exemplary and this is why your point carries a powerful message. A plea for civility (not the first I've heard today) and positivity would sound pretty hollow coming from one of the resident hypocrites.
I can't speak for others, John, but as somebody who has often been guilty of leaving a foot in, I will, for my part, endeavour to stop doing it.
Who knows? I may even make it to Chrimbo without being banned again.
239 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:14:18
If only eh??? :-)
Having said that, they're not at the races as yet.
I really want them to win ALL their games so we're the only club to take points from them this season. Not gonna happen, but I can hope.
Ahhh... this is the last of my five so adding to it while I can:
Like you, Mike, I'm feeling much happier than of late and the dog's happier as well. He has stopped running away when I come in from the game!
240 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:20:21
Anyway, regardless, I feel better this Sunday night than I did last Sunday. I'm 47 and never known relegation; I don't want to know it now.
241 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:51:25
That being said, I hope Allardyce doesn't set us up next Sunday with a 5-man back line and 2 holders in front, we need to be a bit braver than that he who defends everything, defends nothing
242 Posted 03/12/2017 at 17:59:31
243 Posted 03/12/2017 at 18:13:01
I look forward to a more sedate, but equally forceful approach from you, and I've no doubt that we will lock horns once or twice, but that's what these forums are for.
On a lighter note, I recently had an article accepted by the "Webmaster" entitled, "Favourites aren't always the best - Part One], it featured the career of Gordon West, but unfortunately because of the Managerial warfare [that seems to have abated] not many appeared to have viewed it.
It gave me an opportunity to put forward my favourite, eleven players [but not necessarily the best] that I have seen playing for Everton.
As it has been removed from the site, I'm going to chance my arm and submit Part Two, and with a little luck it should be available in a day or two.
Anyway enough about me, I'm looking forward to reading posts from a more discreet Darren Hind,
244 Posted 03/12/2017 at 18:19:18
You forgot to add Pickford!!
245 Posted 03/12/2017 at 18:20:22
246 Posted 03/12/2017 at 18:21:57
However, we are in a new era and I am prepared to welcome it. So far, it has been positive. I believe that Sam Allardyce has been given the chance of a lifetime and I am optimistic that he will take it.
I now ask you and Steve Ferns, both respected posters, what are your expectations? How long will you give him? By whose standards will you judge Sam Allardyce? Do you put style before points?
The most important question, which concerns me and others like Sam Hoare, is; has Moshiri put the "project", on hold for pragmatic reasons? Is Sam Allardyce part if it?
I would suggest that a step back has been taken. Foundations will be laid and, despite the Jim White shite, our new owner is not the football fool some see him as.
I feel pretty positive right now.
247 Posted 03/12/2017 at 18:33:04
I like the "leaving the foot in" made me smile. (Or should I say it was the honesty I liked?)
TW is like you say, a Pub, but it is also a family with people that know when to say hello and to say sorry. It is also like Shanks (the great Evertonian) said: "It is more than that" when some asked if it was more important than life and death...
I always think of this in the context of the generations that support our great club, those with us and those that have gone.
Welcome to the family, Darren you always have been part of it ,I know! ;-)
248 Posted 03/12/2017 at 18:47:03
Players knew this week the game was up and a proper hardcore personality was watching their every move. The Anti-Allardyce brigade will stop at nothing to undermine him.
At this present moment in time and I deal in the now moment Allardyce is a blessing and we are lucky he was available... Roll on the derby... Not many would be thinking that before Wednesday and BigSam signed on.
The amount of Evertonians who do not grasp our reality continue to astound me. I'm more embarrassed by our own fans and not by what Kopites think.
249 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:00:50
You can see the archive of fans' articles by going to the bar at the top of the TW website and selecting Articles, then Fan Articles.
250 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:03:11
"I believe that Sam Allardyce has been given the chance of a lifetime and I am optimistic that he will take it."
Er... wasn't that supposed to be the England job? As the teenagers in my house have a habit of repeating... "Just saying."
251 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:15:13
Was thinking exactly the same about the Delph "foul". A clear dive that "deceived the referee". Wasn't it this that Niasse was found guilty of, even though the ref in that instance said he wasn't deceived!!
There were other dives in the game so I guess the retrospective panel are going to be very busy this week. Yeah right!
252 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:22:35
It's almost certainly his very last opportunity to manage a leading club and, if he balls it up, he will ride into the sunset a rich man but one who never quite made it!
253 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:30:31
254 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:34:44
Everton and this site need healthy and vigorous debate. We don't need to feel that if we disagree we are open to personal insult.
I grew up in Liverpool 7, two of my uncles were world boxing contenders, Nel Tarleton and Ernie Roderick. I've never been a shrinking violet, but there's a difference between the printed word and the banter amongst mates in the pub and that difference needs to be observed.
Allardyce has started well. I hope he continues to do well, especially against Liverpool. I will support him, but I repeat, never would he have even made it on to my long list for the Everton job. Now he's there, he deserves time and support.
255 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:38:05
I'm with you, the more I listen to Sam, the more I think he's talking sense. I hope he grasps the chance with both hands!!
I did chuckle though in one of his interviews he called the Europa League the Uefa Cup!! Very up-to-date!!
256 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:49:10
257 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:51:37
Whilst this does feel like step back, it is at least a sensible one and the short contract makes it clear that Moshiri sees this a short term move, at least initially. Despite the bizarre Jim White stuff, he has at least shown that he will not suffer failure for as long as his predecessor and is prepared to pay for a better solution.
Personally I had my heart set on Silva and suspect I will glance frequently his way as 'the one that got away' but for now it will just be glances. Allardyce is in the marital bed so to speak (have lost control of this analogy) and am happy to have him there so long as the results keep us in or around the top half where we should be.
258 Posted 03/12/2017 at 19:55:56
I look forward with interest to MotD tonight (re comments on Delph) not having seen the Citeh game.
Whilst I agree with the idea of trying to stamp out diving, I think the current method is ridiculous.
I am not Niasse's greatest fan and accept he may well have exaggerated the effect of Dann's challenge however, the latter was not an attempt to play the ball as judged by the ref, it was a deliberate, cynical & successful attempt to stop Niasse getting the ball. Niasse's ban was sick the panel have said the ref was deceived when he clearly believes he wasn't.
So what will the arrogant Shearer and his sidekick Murphy have to say about the Delph incident? Or will the BBC conveniently pretend it didn't happen? Not long to wait.
Surely we should be coming down heavily on the regular serial divers in the Premier League, eg, Silva, Sterling & Aguero and also those who have no hesitation in using other forms of cheating like, as the awful Gary Neville would say "taking one for the team"?
IMO, the success or otherwise of a dive is immaterial recognised attempts should be penalised the current approach doesn't really deter, since punishment will only arise if the dive was (?) successful in deceiving the referee! Surely, we should be deterring players from trying it on it's not difficult to imagine circumstances in which it could be worth diving and winning a game-saving/winning penalty!
259 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:02:37
Perhaps Moshiri took the view that Koeman was a fake 'strong man' with poor communication/motivation skills? Might he see Allardyce as a credible tough manager with decent communication skills?
I'd love to know what happened behind the scenes this summer between Koeman, Walsh, Moshiri and Kenwright. Perhaps it was so toxic that they felt they had to sack him without a replacement? Will Sam's relationship with Walsh make more a more effective team?
More questions than answers right now. All about results now and good business in January.
260 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:05:33
261 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:08:35
Another thing I remember Is that Plymouth Argyle had a debutant that day, a lad named Neil Langman, he must have replaced the regular centre half Jack Chisolm, who was famous for being a lookalike to the bloke on the Players cigarette packet. Isn't it sad that I could remember that, and not the Everton scorers.
That was the season we were promoted, and Sheffield Wednesday in knocking us out of the F.A. Cup, interrupted a run of where we scored 20 goals in three games, Derby County [away] 6-2, Brentford [home] 6-1, Plymouth [home] 8-4. You were one of a crowd of 44,496 happy days.
262 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:16:17
For what it's worth, one of your recent inputs was in my opinion one of the best I've ever read on here. It was bob-on re what's wrong with the club, and I complimented you on it. I agree with a lot of what you write even if I thought your take on Koeman was too OTT.
I just hope for all our sakes, and even yours if I can be so presumptive, that you allow Allardyce and Co two or three months before we all rush to judge. He needs that time to sign and embed all the players in a system that, hopefully, brings us top six minimum by the end of next season.
"He's here, he's dear, he kills off all the fear" is my effort for a chant in his, erm, honour.
263 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:16:32
My first ever football game was earlier in the 1953-54 season when I was taken to Anfield to see Stanley Matthews, because my dad and uncles, all reds, thought he'd retire soon. Liverpool won 5-2, but it was Dave Hickson in the Plymouth game who captured my 7-year-old imagination that and the fact Everton got promoted and Liverpool were relegated.
My family were of the kind you got in those days, every Saturday they went to the match: Liverpool one week, Everton the next. So, over the next few years I watched both clubs regularly, but by the early sixties I had my own paddock season ticket and the Young, Vernon era was when I was most involved and the team I most admire.
264 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:19:24
Let us hope it lasts more than a day or two.
265 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:20:34
Thanks for the information, it will benefit anyone who wishes to catch up on it, Rick Tarleton has already taken advantage of it.
I was two thirds of the way through my next article when my laptop crashed, it will have to wait until tomorrow... I'm going cross eyed, thanks again.
266 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:31:02
You should hear the crowd all roar Everton eight and Plymouth four One from Lindsay, one from Lello Two from Hickson a dashing fellow You may think this rhyme is silly The other four came from Big John Willie Now you'll hear the crowd all shout Passing Liverpool going out! But Everton have kept marching on And now the're in Division One Liverpool's in a hell of a state Spent £50,000 years too late But alas they were not meant to roam 'cause they'll get Jackie Balmer from the Kirkdale Home.
267 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:38:57
268 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:39:16
Some of the 'youngsters' that came in for that game include Rooney (32), Williams (33) and Martina (28). Hardly supports your claim that he ditched the experienced 'shirkers' and 'turned to the youngsters'.
Rooney was 'everywhere trying to win the game'? That's a good thing surely? He played that way against West Ham too. I remember him covering at left-back a few times. Are you implying that the reason he didn't score against Huddersfield, let alone get a hat-trick, was because of this? Which instructions did Sam Allardyce fail to give him? 'Score from the halfway line' or 'Get a hat-trick'?
Which coaching award did Unsworth receive last week? You're not talking about that LMA performance of week thing are you? I doubt the competition was that 'fierce'. Leicester got a good result but who else?
I didn't know that Huddersfield hadn't scored a goal away from home since August. Fair point. But then we've played other sides that have been struggling to score goals and it didn't stop them from scoring easily against us.
Performance of the season (against West Ham)? That's not saying very much but I agree. Obviously.
269 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:53:54
Many a time John-Willie, Davie Hickson and a couple of other players would be on the No 3 bus when I got on in St Anne Street going to the match. They were always very sociable and engage with 'cheeky Charlie' kids like me and my mates, happy days.
270 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:54:50
I've been called all kinds of offensive names on TW over the years including a poster on this very thread several years ago expressing a desire to hit me. (No names!!!) Any intelligent and mature person is going to take context into account and let it go.
If someone disagrees with me, I genuinely try to see their point. If there is no logic (eg, clear bias) or the post doesn't make any sense (eg, contradictory) – I'll tend to either point that out or ignore it and move on. If someone has to have to have the last word, let them have it – TW might be all they have.
Some subjects are, however, more complex and / or emotive than a 2-2 draw away at Palace.
Three that have featured on TW over the years have been:
(1) the Kirkby ground move;
(2) the Man City game at Goodison Park when winning might have handed the dark side a chance of winning the title; and
(3) the appointment of Sam Allardyce.
As everyone on here, by definition, is a Blue and actually cares about our fortunes, I think divisions are magnified on those highly emotive occasions.
Name-calling is out of order, of course (almost as out-of-order as threats of violence, particularly against poor old me) but, again, the more intelligent and mature will take context into account and get over it.
(If name-calling is, however, so offensive, why haven't more people protested about some posters' use of “Fat Sam” – a phrase, I for one would never stoop to? Or the equally liberal use of the word ‘crook'?)
I think highly emotive topic Number 3 has resulted in temporary strained relations these past couple of days. For me, it's nothing personal. I don't bear a grudge one way or the other. It is true that my blood has been close to boiling point with some expressing a preference for relegation over Allardyce etc, which I find ludicrous.
On swearing, I certainly don't resort to or enjoy reading gratuitous bad language. I don't object to the odd swear word on here for emphasis but it just grates with over-use and loses its intended impact anyway.
Whatever, unity and normal service should be restored with the run-up to next weekend's fixture.
Surely the most ardent anti-Allardyce fan would want a result there?
271 Posted 03/12/2017 at 20:59:47
272 Posted 03/12/2017 at 21:04:44
I couldn't resist "I'm more embarrassed by our own fans..." Just got to have someone in his sights!
273 Posted 03/12/2017 at 21:09:45
Sam would not have been my first choice far from it. But and it's a strong 'but' I genuinely feel he is out to prove a point. I think he thinks it's his biggest gig yet, which it is, and he wants to Show the mockers what he's all about.
I was against the appointment but I'm quickly being swayed. He's the sort of character that will get three points away at those lot and I'm not sure many would.
I back him. I back Everton, and I back the fact we will start to move forward
274 Posted 03/12/2017 at 21:10:20
I think the shameless fuckers feared Sam, but surely you can acknowledge that Unsworth got it right. Sam agreed, he picked the same team.
275 Posted 03/12/2017 at 21:44:36
I really do think we need to forget almost anything that he has done in the past and hope that he brings something new, preferably classy to the Blues. Unlike many of TW readers I don't know, but hope for the best.
If he is to make any future signings, he will need to be very very careful and even cautious. Koeman ruined his position as manager by making very hasty and unwise signings. Allardyce should not announce who he would like to sign publicly so soon, although by reports he already has...
I am always suspicious and very worried when managers sign players who have played for them in the past. Remember, they are now older and if it is a January signing, it is very likely that their present team is just glad to get rid of them. That is why top teams have great scouting systems. Please, Sam: "Look before you leap!".
I hope the latest talk is just gossip. We don't need stop-gap signings. We need great players if our beloved Blues are to make the progress that we expect. He acknowledges that he is coming to a great club with historic traditions and achievements. That is what he must remind himself every day as he earns a far better salary than he must have ever expected when he started his life in Football.
You are a new Evertonian. I am not. I was supporting Everton long before you were born. This is the best chance you will ever have to become a hero. Actually, you can do that very quickly by beating "them" next weekend.
276 Posted 03/12/2017 at 22:15:41
My understanding was that he had said what positions he wanted to fill, e.g. left back,cover, centre half cover and striker, but also said that he had no identified targets in mind at present.
Has he made some announcement since yesterday, about who his targets might be for those positions?
277 Posted 03/12/2017 at 22:23:45
Must have had an epiphany or something right?
Unsworth and the Burning Bush. Hahaha!
278 Posted 03/12/2017 at 22:34:27
Look at the gossip columns every day so and so is going to sign this guy, no he's not says the next paper. Most clubs keep things quite quiet. Unlike our ridiculous Sigurdsson saga!
We have to support Allardyce as we should all our managers until the writing is truly on the wall. It was quite obvious our last 2 permanent managers had reached the end of their shelf life.
I think John McFarlane might be right regarding a generation thing. Some of the comments regarding Allardyce have been completely over the top.
Like most people, I did not want him here but the fact is he is and as such we should respect him regarding his position in the club. Unfortunately some cannot.
279 Posted 03/12/2017 at 23:00:05
280 Posted 03/12/2017 at 23:13:01
Recently, I asked him who would he rather see leading Everton in the derby Sam or Ron?
"Ron all day long, that fat count (i think that's what he said) is was too canny."
281 Posted 03/12/2017 at 23:29:23
282 Posted 03/12/2017 at 23:37:23
283 Posted 04/12/2017 at 03:05:13
In reference to Big Sam, you posted, "we are lucky he was available." Are you kidding me? He was available because Big Sam got stung and made to look like a greedy unethical scumbag. He wasn't trying to clean up English football by pointing out ways around the rules, instead he was trying to line his pockets with more cash, while being paid pretty well by the FA. Let us at least keep a little perspective on this please.
Big Sam used Unsworth's winning line-up and got a win too. Unsworth did the work and suffered the beatings until he found a possible combination of players that provided balance and that worked. Big Sam, no dummy as a manager, decided to use the same line-up with good results again. So how exactly is this down to him and not Unsworth?
286 Posted 04/12/2017 at 04:17:19
"I don't object to the odd swear word on here for emphasis but it just grates with over-use and loses its intended impact anyway."
You're probably correct but swearing is part of life and while I have tried to kerb the use of what is often called "colourful language" I must say I got a terrific laugh out of Paul Mackies post @ 271 which immediately followed yours.
Perhaps I have got an unusual sense of humour.
Or maybe I'm just feeling happy?
Up the Blues
287 Posted 04/12/2017 at 04:51:14
288 Posted 04/12/2017 at 05:18:47
I was more impressed with Big Sam avoiding the words "phenomenal" and "productive" in his interviews. It says a lot about him that he was visibly touched by the reception he received at the start of the game, and how he let Rhino take the credit for the West Ham result.
As much as I, like most Blues, think the world of Rhino, the '5 minutes' with Big Sam must have had an effect on Wednesday.
289 Posted 04/12/2017 at 05:37:02
290 Posted 04/12/2017 at 06:22:58
As it happens, I am looking forward to Sam Allardyce taking us to Mordor. They will be thinking that they only have to turn up to get the three points, as has been the case since I don't know when.
A week ago, I was dreading going there.
291 Posted 04/12/2017 at 06:51:27
Their attacking options, movement, fitness and strength from the bench is frightening.
If they manage to get a decent goalie and centre half not many teams will live with them.
I hate to say it but Klopp is slowly getting there with them. Thankfully Man City are well ahead or we could be having a real shitty time at the end of the season!
292 Posted 04/12/2017 at 07:54:33
That he can bring us back to the standards we once were when Moyes left especially from the perspective of defence.
Only then we can progress and challenge the top 4.
293 Posted 04/12/2017 at 08:08:23
Two wins and two clean sheets have changed my mindset from how many will we concede? to maybe we can get a result... Hopefully the players have gone through a similar transition.
He knows how to beat them (because he has this year).
He will have a game plan; he and the new coaches will have had 8 days and the Limassol game to decide which players fit in with the plan.
I will be well on edge before the game but I won't be without hope as in recent times.
294 Posted 04/12/2017 at 08:41:23
295 Posted 04/12/2017 at 08:53:04
296 Posted 04/12/2017 at 09:24:37
No doubt it will give the haters more ammunition if we don't get something.
297 Posted 04/12/2017 at 09:37:50
298 Posted 04/12/2017 at 10:27:15
This business about Liverpool is frankly ridiculous. Other teams, often lesser teams than us, beat them at Anfield, and we can beat them. We should respect them, even their shaky defence, but not fear them!
Their attack is in very good form, but they can struggle when put under pressure by an organised side, and that's when we see how vulnerable they are in defence.
I can't believe some posters thinking we've already lost. With that kind of thinking, there's no point in playing football.
299 Posted 04/12/2017 at 10:29:21
West Ham are one of 2 or 3 teams actually worse than us and Huddersfield are in freefall and haven't scored away since the opening day. Add in a bit of new manager bounce and things look a bit better but let's not kid ourselves: The same players have been mostly terrible all season, no matter what position or formation they've been in, so Sam's going to have his work cut out.
Sunday ain't going to be pretty. If we have a go, they'll destroy us. Sam will have spent the week working on his game plan so let's see if we can pull it off!
300 Posted 04/12/2017 at 11:05:23
And that's my fear. Game after game after game we've, no they've, just crumbled, despite any sort of confidence I've had going into the game. I can't do it any more, or not yet building up my positivity and hopes, just to be dashed even more.
But as I've posted, I feel slightly less anxious than I did a couple of weeks ago. Okay, you got me, Stan COYB!
301 Posted 04/12/2017 at 11:25:59
I suspect you are one of the hypocrites Darren Hind is referring to.
I once posted on this site on a daily basis, but due to getting myself involved in the sort of nonsense John McFarlane talks of, I found myself getting what in hindsight, was a deserved lengthy ban. I have read these pages every day and often cringe because the battles remind me so much of the stuff I was involved in. I know an agent provocateur when I see one.
Several times last season, you were ribbed by different posters for lying in wait for Mr Hind's posts, often jumping on them seconds after they were posted and always niggling. I thought you would be embarrassed, but you simply carried on. Even when voicing your approval @264 you can't resist having a dig. You constantly try to get a reaction and do nowt but complain when you get it.
Darren Hind is without doubt a spikey character. His often brutal assessment of Ronald Koeman earned him plenty of enemies on this site. Some simply could not handle his, err... "forthright" views. A small group of people would go out of their way to engage him. Mr Hind's dismissive aggression hardly endeared him to this group. He made no effort at all to hide his belief that they were wrong. The fact that he turned out to be right all along makes his arrogant contempt seem all the more unnecessary.
I don't think John McFarlane was for one minute singling out any individual when he was calling for civility... but it's highly amusing to look at the posters who clearly feel he couldn't possibly be talking about them.
One of those "he cant possibly mean me" characters launched into the most angry abusive attack I have ever seen on TW on Saturday's Live Forum. One day later, he is one here nodding his approval of John's calls for civility, claiming they are "So obviously right to most of us" Hypocrisy in its purest form, poster #204. Comedy gold.
John McFarlane clearly has a lot of respect on here. His gentle request has drawn a demonstration of that from a guy many of us believed respected nobody, but If John's call for a more serene website is to have any effect, it's going to take more than one man to hold is hands up and accept his guilt.
Sorry to use poster #204 as an example again, but a lot of the complaints about aggression seem to come from the very people who have deliberately sought that sort of reaction.
302 Posted 04/12/2017 at 11:38:49
It's a bit silly but I'm a fan of unusual celebrations. Timmy Cahill's became legendary. Who remembers Mick Shannon's? Football is supposed to be entertainment after all.
303 Posted 04/12/2017 at 11:48:24
Someone recently called me a 'closet Kopite' in response to what I thought was a comment of substance. I just responded, you're wasting your time getting personal with me, if you want to engage with me then stick to matters of substance, not personal remarks. In other words, as soon as someone gets personal, I ignore them (apart from advising them not to get personal) because they don't know me personally.
I'm not really bothered about personal comments (sticks and stones, and all that), but it is an issue when folks don't stick to the substance of the debate. Maybe some folks don't mean any insult, like when you have banter with your mates in the pub, but I think it's different on a site like this.
304 Posted 04/12/2017 at 12:18:32
With regard to the forum, I for one am very opinionated and I suspect that to post you need to be. I think it's also fair to say that we all think that our opinion is the correct one and I very often find when I log on and read some of the posts that my blood pressure goes sky high.
I'm not talking about when posters get abusive to each other, more when some spout nonsensical stuff or are using abusive language towards players and managers.
I have to admit that I have tried to quit the site on numerous occasions but still get drawn back in. I only use this site, so I'm not comparing it with others.
305 Posted 04/12/2017 at 12:44:10
We've changed the playing staff a lot, so surely they've got no psychological baggage about Mordor, and I can't imagine Allardyce fearing them. As you indicate, if he's got a plan, attention to detail, it increases our chances, their attack being on fire or not.
306 Posted 04/12/2017 at 12:50:20
Same on Wednesday against West Ham, although getting the penalty helped us settle down a lot earlier, and we only really looked in trouble when Rooney wasn't getting close enough to their midfielders at the start of the second half.
It's a big ask going to Anfield to try and defend for 90 minutes but who knows? I'd play 8 behind the ball and leave two up but then I'd worry about our midfielders' lack of creativity.
Maybe I'd swap Sigurdsson for Rooney, and play Calvert-Lewin out wide and just leave Niasse up. Either way, we are going to be organised, hopefully to create organised chaos for the horrible fuckers across the park!
307 Posted 04/12/2017 at 12:56:18
Burnley and Dyche frustrated them and could have won with two good chances near the end. Our team Everton frustrated Man City and could / should have done better against their 10 men. Nothing is impossible if you have the belief; Sam, Sammie and Shakespeare the three S's might just give us that belief.
308 Posted 04/12/2017 at 13:16:08
309 Posted 04/12/2017 at 13:35:22
The ultimate insult, when Klopp said he 'felt sorry' for us.
310 Posted 04/12/2017 at 13:55:18
I live five fuckin minutes from both grounds Sam and I've been at Everton, since I was 8. I want to play in these derby matches, it's something every scouse kid, who likes football, has dreamed about at least 1000 times in his life, and I can't wait to get stuck right in to those red bastards!
I know he's not that experienced just yet, but he helped Oxford gain promotion 18 months ago, then he won the reserve league and then the World Cup. Look at his response to his terrible mistake at Leicester to see what type of personality this kid has got.
I thought Martina done great against Huddersfield, but I reckon Kenny has got the much bigger heart, which is something Everton, are going to really need on Sunday afternoon.
311 Posted 04/12/2017 at 14:01:32
It was often the case as I recall, of "If you don't agree you must be a moron", I personally believe [like all fellow "Webbers"] that I know a little bit about football, in general, and Everton FC in particular. I trust that this doesn't come across as appearing boastful, that's certainly not the intention. I am particularly aware that there are some on this site who can, to use an old expression "Buy and sell me".
The point I'm attempting to make, is that if you read something that you don't agree with, and you wish to address it, then do so in a non aggressive manner. I don't understand the need to make personal remarks, to someone you don't know personally.
I know that the world has moved on, and the internet has opened up all sorts of avenues that didn't exist in my youth, but in those far off days Evertonians didn't attack Everton FC, we left that to our "Friends from across the park" and to tell you the truth, we gave as good as we got. Best wishes to you, and all "ToffeeWebbers" John.
312 Posted 04/12/2017 at 14:11:31
I think Kenny, Davies, Calvert-Lewin and Holgate should all play.
I think we came unstuck through Unsworth trusting the more experienced players. Jagielka looked shot to me at and Mirallas and Schneiderlin looked as if the couldn't care less. We have looked far better since the youngsters were brought back.
Experience would normally be the better choice, but they are either not up to it, or can't be bothered. I agree, a mauling would be damaging to the boys, but a decent performance or result will do wonders for their self-belief.
313 Posted 04/12/2017 at 14:30:52
If we win then imagine what it will do for them! To win against the odds in a match where most of the press is imagining we will crumble.
Win, lose or draw then I expect it to be a useful learning experience and regardless of that you have to play your best team which at the moment definitely contains the likes of Kenny, Holgate, Davies and Calvert-Lewin.
314 Posted 04/12/2017 at 14:35:20
A £22m signing can't even get in the matchday squad in front of the kids. Someone needs hanging from the Kop by their balls for that one.
315 Posted 04/12/2017 at 14:51:14
You have to think they will score at least one, so like Tony I'd give Niasse half a game if not more, he must be raring to go. As for the rest of the team, that's what Sams getting paid for, its a tough task sooner him than me.
316 Posted 04/12/2017 at 15:06:10
To a certain extent they can play without fear and I would rather have a 100% Beni playing than a "don't give a shit" Schneiderlin.
At the end of Saturday's game I watched Calvert-Lewin, Holgate and Kenny arms over each others shoulders laughing walking to applaud the Gwladys Street. It was just 3 mates having a good time. Good to see.
Form and sense tells me we will come away from Mordor with nothing but even in defeat these kids will learn far more than sitting on the bench watching Schneiderlin and Mirallas go through the motions.
317 Posted 04/12/2017 at 16:03:44
318 Posted 04/12/2017 at 16:39:22
John's gentlemanly persona has certainly been refreshing since he started posting more often. We do our best to intercept and remove the more egregious personal abuse, but each individual's threshold is different, so there is no chance of keeping everyone happy and unoffended, especially in this day and age where the slightest thing can send people over the edge.
I appreciate your interest, John, primarily in the on-field stuff, which should of course take precedence. But in those days between games, when things hit the news that relate to off-field themes club ownership, new stadium, etc anything in fact to do with the footballing side of EFC, is I think fair game for this website in terms of providing information and discussion. If it doesn't interest you, fine. But it's there for those Evertonians who are passionately concerned about where we are headed as a club.
And I'm with you on the 'amateur management' aspect that drives some posters to pick line-ups (when they can't even spell the names of the players), chose our next transfers, and decide that so-and-so "should never ever wear the shirt". That "I know better" conviction is only a blurred line away from cogent post-match analysis but I blame the prevalence of Football Manager type gaming that spills over these unrealistic expectations into the real world.
I just want to confirm, Dave (#301) that you are fingering Dermot Byrne. I can only see one poor post of his on the LF, lashing out more in frustration at another spikey character in Tony Marsh.
For some who post here, there is a desire to be right above all else, and that seems to be a long-running theme for his and Darren Hind's posts. They will never admit to being wrong, and will always twist and squirm if responding when they have been shown up.
One recurring weapon I'm seeing is the cry of "hypocrites", which seems to be a source for lengthy arguments about what is ultimately down to semantics and context. To me, that's another unnecessary personal insult in the "labelling" category, rather than engaging in an exploration of the differing viewpoints, and I would be glad not to see it flung around so easily.
We do have the Flag Comment facility, which I know seems like crying to teacher, but it does help us to rapidly identify the posts in need of review, and it helps if you add a word of explanation in the box provided. However, at the end of the day, we consciously let a lot of stuff go because we do not want to stifle debate although I have to agree that Lyndon's recently imposed 5-post limit per thread does not seem to be in keeping with that ideal.
319 Posted 04/12/2017 at 17:54:06
320 Posted 04/12/2017 at 18:00:24
The comments should be focused on responding to the points made in the original article, agreeing or disagreeing, and stating your own thoughts. Of course that will at times include responding to another comment. But it doesn't need to be a back and forth.
321 Posted 04/12/2017 at 18:12:56
322 Posted 04/12/2017 at 18:17:12
323 Posted 04/12/2017 at 18:52:20
You are no doubt aware that I am in my 80th year, and have been dragged into the 21st century kicking and screaming, technology is just a word to me.
I appreciate that it may not be possible to do what I have suggested, but so much interest has been shown in my "Favourites aren't always the best" article, and I find it hard not to be able to discuss it with fellow Blues.
I am not seeking sole immunity, its just that the very thing that inspired me to write an article, [the "vicious and vitriolic" managerial debate] is now preventing me, and other posters' from expressing their views, on a variety of subjects in a civilised manner.
I would urge you and your colleague to give serious thought to the problem, and as I have said, I'm not seeking special treatment, I just feel that it's unfair that the many should be punished for the behaviour of the few.
324 Posted 04/12/2017 at 19:27:39
Well, as the one singled out, guess I should reply as honestly as I can.
Yep, sometimes I lose my rag. Not that often. But sometimes sure. Mostly during a live game but would say attempts at humour are far more common. Funny? Not the point.
But one thing me and others "ashamedly" know on here... and in life: a way to respond to an persistently angry or aggressive character is to laugh at them. Risky though sometimes.
Does that mean I feel less about the club and game? No idea, as has nobody else. Just a different character with my own strengths and flaws.
The agent provocateur line is interesting bit of a chicken-and-egg conundrum that one.
But as the risk of that labelling again, let's hope I have your road to Damascus moment again... as have a few of my own along the way already!
Still a fellow Blue.
325 Posted 05/12/2017 at 06:35:29
Apologies if I have offended your genteel nature. No offence intended.
326 Posted 05/12/2017 at 08:37:03
I did not mean to single you out, It just happened that both your posts were within a day of each other and made for a perfect example of my point. Unfortunately I didn't have a Damascus moment. I am still prone to get a little hot under the collar which is why a generally choose to read rather than post these days We are cut form the same cloth, my friend, and because we are prone to outburst, we (imo) forfeit our right to act with indignation towards others.
I think it's wrong that D Hind and Tony are being portrayed as the chief antagonists here. For me the worst abuse comes on the live forum and you seldom find either of them on there.
I don't see an angry man when I read Tony Marsh's post. I see a very excited fan who changes opinion every day – "I want Sam" ... "I don't want Sam" ... "I never said I wanted Sam" ... "You seeee – Sam is the man". This is a passionate guy who reacts to the there and then, but angry? For me he comes across as being permanently exasperated.
"Dazza" is a different animal. He is razor sharp. He is occasionally wrong, but he is so often right it's annoying. For me his problem is his intolerance of those he "knows" are wrong. He is supremely confident in his judgment. When Darren saw flaws in the last two managers, he didn't simply give an opinion: he told us. When many were claiming the two defensive midfielders were top class, Darren didn't simply disagree, he told us, labeling them"tackling machines". He didn't simply disagree when people were delighted with our summer signings: he told us they were substandard and we would struggle because we are not signing the right type of player. He dismissed critics of John Stones as "Philistines". A diplomat, he is not.
The reaction to John's call for civility is fascinating. So many past offenders lining up to support him. He didn't confront the TW's most intolerant poster, as so many have tried to do; he completely disarmed him (and many others) with a charm only gentlemen posses.
I'm not sure I totally agree with John McFarlane, although of course I respect his intention.
I log on to this site every day and I love the passion and I see in posts from the likes of Marshy and Dazza; I love posts from others who are not afraid to rattle a few feathers, it keeps things "real". Eugene Ruane would give John nightmares with his killing put-downs, but they are achingly funny and, even though I have been on the receiving end, I miss them when they are not there.
Good luck in finding that perfect balance, Michael.
327 Posted 05/12/2017 at 12:46:25
328 Posted 05/12/2017 at 20:59:23
Frankly, the new Dave Wilson is a shadow of one of the best posters ever to visit this site. Do you recall your spat with Mike K over the Liverpool semi, who was in whose half? The MOB arguments?
Come back, the old Dave. The site was better with robust debate.
329 Posted 06/12/2017 at 10:50:31
Long time no speak. Yes I remember those times vividly. I certainly remember some epic battles with Eugene. I remember one poster calling us Ali and Frazier Eugene's wit and intellect against my "street fighting" debating style. The strange thing being, even then Eugene was my favorite poster.
I cringe when I look back on the absurdity of the long drawn out battle over the semi final nobody really gave a damn if the players were on the half way line or 5 yards off it, but we all thought we hated each other back then and these minor details were "crucial".
Back then Michael would take a much more active role in the debates and would often get embroiled in what seemed like the longest Scouse wedding ever. He used to have the infuriating habit of really attacking you, then blocking your response. and I in turn would attack him privately. I was out of order. I deeply regret my part in it.
I get what John Mac is saying, but compared to then, TW is in a far better way than back then, Most of the people who wanted to settle their differences in the virtual car park are a little older and a little wiser I most definitely include the editor in that.
Michael is clearly impressed with John's call for civility, but credit where credit is due. He and Lyndon have clearly been chipping away for years to improve the quality of these threads Incredibly difficult when providing an open forum, but they are getting there. They are definitely getting there.
Genteel? thank you, I'm not there yet but, I'm working on it.
Anyway that my posting done for as while, fascinating thread, but I think I prefer to observe more than participate.
330 Posted 06/12/2017 at 11:36:17
No problem at all, you're welcome.
Your hard work is paying off.
All the best
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