Yannick Bolasie was given a start for the first time since recovering, while was still ruled out with the flu.
Phil Jagielka wasn't asked to play another 90 minutes with Williams (as captain) and Holgate reunited at the back. Idrissa Gueye's injury picked up against Chelsea meant Tom Davies coming back into the side.
Rondon came very close to scoring the opener for the home side on 5 minutes, a wicked cross from the Everton right clipped his heel and flew wide. For Everton, Calvert-Lewin got wide behind the West Brom defence but his cross was controolled by Barry.
Another attack for the home side again came close to scoring, Phillips crossing well from the left this time a back-header from Solomon across the Everton goal but there was no-one there to convert.
Bolasie got some touches down the left until fouled by Barry, giving Sigurdsson a chance to swing in a wicked one that just bounced harmless through and out for a goal-kick.
Another corner was defended by Pickford punching wide but the ball came right back and Dawson powered his header just over the Everton bar. Bolasie put on a good cross to win Everton's first corner that Sigurdsson swung in well but no-one could profit. As the ball went back to midfield, Livermore fouled Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson delivered another very dangerous ball in.
Bolasie saw some space and took a potshot from distance that was well off target. Bolasie showed some more good touches, beating his man and putting in a decent cross, but West Brom were able to clear it. Bolasie was then fouled but no free-kick and he exuberantly fouled his man in return, leading to a West Brom attack and corner that Pickford punched clear.
Some better passing down the left saw a cross come in for Calvert-Lewin but he couldn't control it and Martina then fouled to stop the breakaway which ended with Dawson heading over. Another Everton attack seemed to be shaping well, with good passing around the West Brom Area, but there was no end product.
Brunt took a decent shot that Pickford had covered all the way. Bolasie appeared to win the ball in a tussle with Phillips and Brunt delivered well to the far post but the header was onto the top of the net.
The half came to an end with both sides looking fairly evenly matched, West Brom having had the better chances, Everton not really doing enough on the end of some fine deliveries from Sigurdsson.
The game restarted in similar fashion with no changes. Rondon got behind the Everton defence, beating Holgate, but slips as he tries to shoot, blasting wide. Clever work from Bolasie fed Kenny and his cross was blocked behind for a corner. Rondon had pulled his hamstring with that shot and was replaced by Robson-Kanu.
Davies played to Bolasie's feet but the forward was called offside. Keane headed straight to Blunt and it needed smart response from Kenny to block the shot. After the hour mark, Bolasie and Calvert-Lewin were withdrawn to be replaced by Lennon and Bolasie, but West Brom continued to have the better ideas in terms of attack.
Sigurdsson next free-kick was poor and easily defended, Dawson getting a card for holding back Martina but Sigurdssson's delivery was again short. The ball fell nicely for Davies but he fired over. Another foul, almost identical by Dawson, was not punished but Sigurdsson's delivery was spurned yet again as the Blues continued to live dangerously at the other end of the field.
A couple of West Brom corners were defended and Holgate had to head away a very good cross fro another corner st West Brom threatened, Holgate, heading behind for the fourth corner in a tight spell, Pickford punching the last one away while being impeded.
West Brom kept probing, winning yet another corner that Pickford punched away, then he fielded an incoming shot with confidence. At the other end, the attack looked frankly lame, Davies turning away from goal rather than trying to use the ball to create something, and Everton had still not created a clear chance on Foster's goal into the final 10 minutes.
Another West Brom attack and Williams was called for a high foot, right in the dee, Phillips blasting well over from the free-kick. The ball seemed to fall well for Gibbs but Kenny coming on put him off and he screwed the shot well off target.
Everton tried to build down the left but a poor giveaway by Davies put them under pressure again. Another fantastic cross was headed away brilliantly by Kenny. Another corner again handled well byu Pickford, and Davies was withdrawn fro Baningime.
Niasse and Lennon finally got behind the West Brom defence but the angle was too tight for him to beat Foster, despite getting two bites of the cherry. Each side tried to fashion something in the 3 minutes of added time but it was not happening and Everton came away with a point and another clean sheet to extend Sam Allardyce's increasingly remarkable unbeaten record since taking over the reins.
Kick-off: 3pm, Tuesday 26 December 2017 West Brom:
Subs not Used: Nyom, Yacob, Myhill, McAuley.
West Brom:Foster, Dawson [Y:65'], Hegazi, Evans, Gibbs, Phillips (88' McClean), Livermore (69' Krychowiak), Barry, Brunt, Rodriguez, Rondon (52' Robson-Kanu).
Everton: Pickford, Keane, Williams, Holgate, Kenny, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Davies (87' Baningime), Martina, Bolasie (61' Lennon), Calvert-Lewin (61' Niasse).
Subs not Used: Jagielka, Sandro, Lookman, Robles.
Referee: Roger East
Reader Comments (376)
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1 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:10:50
2 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:12:38
3 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:13:14
4 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:14:24
5 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:16:23
6 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:17:57
7 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:23:36
8 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:27:37
9 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:29:10
10 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:31:08
11 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:32:22
12 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:33:21
13 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:35:01
14 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:38:05
Thanks - see you there!
15 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:48:13
16 Posted 26/12/2017 at 15:54:00
17 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:02:22
18 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:02:40
19 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:06:47
20 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:51:53
21 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:53:40
22 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:53:43
23 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:53:53
Not good to watch though!
24 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:54:00
25 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:54:55
It's a real struggle to watch but, at the moment, is improving results.
26 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:55:32
I feel sorry for the fantastic away support they deserve better.
27 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:57:16
Nah... just kidding. But please – try to post something different this time!
28 Posted 26/12/2017 at 16:58:27
Gave them far too much respect. Poor showing from the team as a whole. No attacking thoughts at all in Sam's strategy today.
I've backed him so far but if he won't have a go against the poorest teams in the league, just where does he expect our next win to come from?
29 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:01:02
30 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:02:51
31 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:03:43
The other way of looking at it, of course, is that we are a poor side too and should be pleased with every point gathered for the moment. I continue to think that the second view is more correct.
Its gruelling but lets acknowledge how damaged we are.
32 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:05:08
Or there will be lot of supporters going off you, very quickly.
33 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:06:16
Absolutely correct. Big Sam is the first manager of this great club to go his first 7 games unbeaten.
And just to gloat about it, he has achieved this with a demoralised, illness- and injury-hit team. And without a transfer window. Not pretty but, as you rightly state, just what we need.
An away draw against a side battling for their lives with a new manager on board is not to be sniffed at. Very well done, Sam Allardyce. A superb achievement.
Sam wins points, we win points. Simples.
34 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:07:03
The Cherries will be a tricky one, always score a few goals and play attacking football, can we punish their leaky defense? Hope so!
35 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:09:07
Quite a few low on energy and looking a bit leggy, possibly none more so than Calvert-Lewin. The poor lad had virtually zero service all game, but even so, this was possibly a game he could have been given a wee rest. He looked goosed all game.
Kenny, another cracking game. Keane, getting back (but still short of) the form he showed when he first arrived. Schneiderlin another solid performance.
A shout out for Holgate, too. He wasn't always successful with his passing, but he was the one centre back who consistently tried to pass the ball out to his midfielders, rather than always launch it long and hopeful over their heads.
Bolasie had a decent first game back. You could see by his wide smile how much it meant to him and he was almost solely responsible for the flickers of nice football Everton showed today.
Otherwise, a game to erase from the memory banks.
36 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:10:39
37 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:10:47
38 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:11:22
39 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:11:27
40 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:11:29
41 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:12:12
Like someone mentioned on the Live Forum, the last couple of games have been more down to poor finishing by the opposition, than good play from us.
It seems when one or two are poor, the whole team follow suit. I suppose the only positive to take is another clean sheet and unbeaten.
42 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:12:15
Embarrassing to watch and I feel sorry for the crowd who travelled and paid money to see that managerial dinosaur at work.
43 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:13:31
Another point, another clean sheet and another solid defensive showing (though West Brom was fashioning plenty of opportunities they just lacked the quality to take advantage of them)... but a wasted opportunity, as this (along with the Bournemouth match) represented a good opportunity to pick up a chunk of points with Man Utd and Spurs looming on the schedule.
44 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:15:37
Sam is a coward now.
45 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:16:58
In the end, it was a hard fought draw but we showed nothing at all going forward which is a worry. Good job they are awful otherwise we would have been beaten.
46 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:21:02
But seriously, we remain unbeaten so Sam is obviously a genius. And now we don't even need to bother watching the games, we can just check the score at full-time to see we remain unbeaten. That is after all, what counts.
And people thought our football under Koeman was the worst in the league. We all know how this ends; with Allardyce getting a 5-year contract and Everton no closer to achieving a steam of piss.
47 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:21:30
If that dross is what you enjoy, then you are in for a treat as that is all we will ever get from him.
48 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:23:21
I appreciate this fragile squad is one or two defeats away from suffering a collapse in form. But surely we need to find a better way than being so defensive in every game in order to bank wins against sides in the lower half of the table.
Those wins are needed to cushion us against the time when the rub of the green is against us or we hit a patch of difficult fixtures.
49 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:23:58
I was hoping for lots of things for Crimbo too and they didn't materialise either.
Surely we could have had a plan to beat a team who have simply forgotten how to win. August ffs since they won a game!!
50 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:25:53
Get better soon, Wayne!
51 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:27:19
There's no way Calvert-Lewin or Bolasie deserve criticism today but the number of times Sigurdsson put good balls in without anyone having the ability to anticipate or meet them just emphasizes what a shambles unfolded in summer. Had some foresight and competence been evident in summer we should have had a fully-fledged "English-type" centre-forward, and another accomplished left-back with the ability to get forward and deliver crosses confident that the other new centre-half we also failed to sign was part of a solid defence not condemned to having always to defend deep. Defending as deep as we do makes it all but impossible to pressure opposing defences, especially when we're all but incapable of retaining the ball up front.
It ain't rocket science Mr Moshiri. Hell, I expect even Sam Allardyce, the guy you fannied around for weeks, can sort it out if you give him the tools, starting in January.
52 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:28:47
53 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:30:02
If we bring this Turkish striker in, he will be similarly starved of service. Never mind another centre-back, we need a creative attacking mid (as well as a left back and striker).
A shout-out for Keane today. Not only good defensively, but sprayed the ball around nicely.
54 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:30:06
55 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:31:57
56 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:32:03
88th minute before we got a shot on target (after getting lucky from a big boot) against a team without a win in 18?
I don't want to hear that we don't have the players to score goals, we scored 10 goals in the five Premier League games before he got the gig; we have now scored 7 goals in 6 games... thank goodness for those penalties.
You need courage to attack and create chances, Sam ain't got it. This is how he made his living in the past and he won't change. I'll be amazed if we don't start dropping down the table again.
Not many teams could look uglier than West Brom... we managed.
57 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:32:52
Where did I say I enjoyed watching it?
58 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:34:28
We all know now that we can stay solid at the back but what's the point if we're never gonna create any chances, especially against teams like West Brom! Disappointing...
59 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:34:43
We are living on incredible luck. That is not something to build around. Against Liverpool, Sane somehow made a complete mess when in on goal and with three teammates just waiting to tap it into our net. Against Chelsea, three times we cleared off the line. Today, Rondon simply missed the ball when unmarked from three yards out. Minutes later they had an unmarked header that flew over the bar.
Eventually those chances start falling. We are offering absolutely nothing in attack, not even trying. We are simply hoofing it over the midfield. When we do have some sort of possession, everyone is standing still, as if they are petrified to move out of their position for fear of being exposed in defense.
We went to West fucking Brom with a five-man defense. We for some reason tried to use Bolasie as a striker when his entire game is about pace down the wings. We seemingly always have 20 yards between players when in possession, never even trying to pass it around the opposition. So when those lucky breaks stop going our way, it's going to get very ugly around here.
60 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:34:50
If anyone had their best 45 minutes for Everton in that game, then they must have played complete shite previously.
61 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:36:48
Stop moaning and whingeing as it's embarrassing. Whatever Allardyce does there will be some who will never be happy. You all loved Joe Royle's Dogs of War... whats the difference now??
62 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:37:59
63 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:39:26
Why did we wear blue? The back of West Brom's shirt were identical to ours. Perhaps that is why we passed to them so often.
64 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:40:14
Say whatever you want and I'll do the same.
65 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:44:12
I totally agree with your point. Sam Allardyce is cutting his cloth accordingly, as I have stated many times on here. Let's see how things evolve when he is given a transfer window or two.
Nobody wants us to play like this. It's a case of having to in order to accrue points, something Allardyce has excelled at. There are too many grinches / ‘fans' on here who are totally unrealistic in their assessments given the context.
Anyway, time for my Boxing Day nosh after winning a few £ on the horses today. :)
66 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:44:37
He had more touches than Barry.
He has played shite previously.
Steve, I hadn't realised you had higher standards than me as a Blue.
68 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:46:13
69 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:51:14
Thinking back to the Saints game, there was no doubt in my mind we were relegation foder. Ut heartens me then to be pissed off with a jump up the table, 7 game unbeaten run (history making), 2 goals conceded, 6 Goal Difference, not 13 and all gut-wrenching fear of relegation resolved. I'm grateful today!
70 Posted 26/12/2017 at 17:55:07
The team started to play better with the introduction Niasse and Lennon. Calvert-Lewin isn't strong enough to lead the team by himself. Bolasie should not have started, he is not match fit. Tom Davies is not the dynamic player of last season.
Sigurdsson could not deliver any good balls into the penalty area. Is the ball too heavy? It seems there is a tendency with most players in the Premier Leaguenot being able to lift the ball high enough into the box without hitting the first defender in the way.
72 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:00:11
Poor to watch, but a damn sight better than lying down to Southampton. It's early days for Allardyce, but It already feels like he's been here for a lot longer than he actually has.
The reason for this? I'm really not sure, even if I didn't expect much from an attacking point of view, considering the defensive shape, and the lack of talent we had in the team today, further up the pitch.
73 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:01:40
That is an opinion, not a fact so please don't post as if it were unchallengeable with snippets such as ‘it's not pretty, but it's what we needed' or ‘it's gruelling buts let's acknowledge how damaged we are' being totally subjective. Koeman and his staff were supposed to be the people who really needed to be replaced.
Sam Allardyce has done well up to now but he will only be judged to be good enough (by many of us) if he can get a better performance than this out players similar to what he already has available, especially as some are getting very little game time.
74 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:02:01
Calvert-Lewin is virtually on his knees now. I feel sorry for the lad but again he's got to work and work because nobody can carry the ball.
75 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:02:26
Number of touches means nothing. I go by what I (and obviously others) see.
Schneiderlin could get the ball and pass it back two metres (a touch). Barry could get it and ping a 30-metre pass to a winger on a run (a touch).
Stats .......bollocks without detail.
76 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:06:43
What obvious others?
After my post, Schneiderlin is only mentioned once. And that was to say he played well.
77 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:07:28
78 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:08:36
80 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:12:27
Koeman: Points/game = 0.89, goal difference = -11, points extrapolated to 38 games = 34.
Unsy: Points/game = 1.4, goal difference = 0, points extrapolated to 38 games = 53.
Allardyce: Points/game = 1.73, goal difference = 5, points extrapolated to 38 games = 76.
Under Koeman, that's relegation performance, under Unsworth it's mid-table, and under Allardyce it's top-6 and qualifying for the Champions League.
81 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:13:13
I don't know why our professional footballers can't pass the ball to each other. How does Allardyce legislate for that? He's tried our squad out, he watches them in training and unless we actually practise not passing the ball to each other what else can he do?
And some people want this lot to play open expansive football?
82 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:14:00
83 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:14:19
I thought we were just swapping different opinions.
I said in reply he has been "shite previously". I have this season repeatedly said I wouldn't start him. But credit where it's due, he did well today imo.
84 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:14:57
85 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:17:35
Yes, the football is poor but we are much stronger defensively and picking up much needed points and confidence. Players who looked completely lost previously now have a system they clearly understand.
Progress is being made; be patient and give Sam time to improve our creativity and attacking play. He knows it is a problem as highlighted now in a number of his pressies.
He deserves a lot of credit for hauling us up the table. I am looking forward to seeing better more attacking football and confident it will happen. Sam knows what he is doing.
86 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:21:36
I might be wrong, but he's probably got at least £20 million in the bank, and he still won't try and really impose himself, and nor does he ever try and express himself either, which are the things that really frustrate me.
Really trying to play football, is what you want to see off everyone, especially when they are made for life so, although Sam has done very well to steady the ship, most of the the natives will be very restless until we add real craft and quality, which is staggering really considering how much money Everton spent in the summer.
87 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:22:16
88 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:24:06
I'm 48 and I can still pass and cross and shoot better than anyone on our team (though I can't run), We played for a nil-nil in our last home game. I don't care who we play, we should never do that.
I hope we have some players lined up. I can't watch this shit any more. No creativity, no shape. We don't move as a team. We also played for a nil-nil against a team that is winless for ages. So enough is enough, Sam. Don't play it again. I didn't watch the game today. I did the washing up, it was more fun
89 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:26:17
Someone on this thread also mentioned Keane returning to his good form.
1. He's never shown any. I remember people praising him after seeing of the mighty Ruzumberok but even in that game it was obvious the lad can't turn fast enough, adjust his feet or close down quickly.
2. He allowed Rondon to get goal side early in the first half today who should have easily scored.
I'm also shocked by the rewriting of history in terms of Schneiderlin. Last season he stood in tons of space controlled the ball slightly slower than Barry and passed it slight slower always sideways.
Not one of our outfield players today would get on the bench of a top 6 side. Let's judge Allardyce after two windows.
To do anything other than praise him for this run of results is utterly ridiculous! IMHO.
90 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:26:49
As for the game. One thing to be sure of, they would have scored from one of those corners under Koeman and Unsy.
But we are not fun to watch or as good as the champions teams of the 80's, or any half good team since. This we all know. All that is left is to compete who is most angry, hopeful, disappointed, relieved or convinced they are a better Blue.
Oh, and there is also tactics and team selection. Tried that on Live Forum as a new angle to my posting before. Talked to myself!
So sod that, you miserable optimistic part-time Blue gobshites! (in jest)
91 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:30:24
I'm a hopeless optimist.
92 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:31:19
93 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:34:01
94 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:37:00
Under Allardyce, it's 2 points per game so far, which is the 76 points when extrapolated to 38 games. I mistakenly typed 1.73 points per game, which applies to Unsy + Allardyce, equating to 66 points when extrapolated to 38 games.
95 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:38:35
I would like to think provided we get to 30 points in the next 2/3 games we can experiment a bit then.
96 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:39:32
Calvert-Lewin looked worn-out and Davies had too much to do with Schneiderlin too slow to get upfield. It would have been good to see Sigurdsson play in the Number 10 role.
Hopefully we will improve as the season continues.
97 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:40:40
98 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:40:52
Today we were missing Rooney and Gana, have an inexperienced young right back, a left back who is not a left back. The midfield players today have proved over the 20 games this season that they find it difficult to create anything. A young centre forward who's trying his heart out, without much quality ball.
Nothing has really changed much in the last 20+ years, we are still a moderate team ie, We don't have top 6 quality players... I can't see one anyway!
100 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:48:27
101 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:52:31
102 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:55:03
Makes a big difference.
103 Posted 26/12/2017 at 18:55:50
I must confess that I am firmly in the pro camp, but that does not mean that I am delighted with the football that is being served up at the moment, I am far from delighted, but I'm quietly pleased with the results.
I must stress that I believe all of the supporters who share my view, also share my hopes, and to expect the current players to play expansive football is unrealistic. I am of the opinion that we must wait to see what activity takes place in the transfer window, and what style of play is adopted.
I can't accept that anyone can predict with any degree of accuracy, [as some have attempted] that Sam Allardyce will continue with a negative attitude, and neither do I predict that he will play the free flowing football that we all crave. We can but hope, and in the meantime continue to support the manager and the team. Seasons greetings to all.
104 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:03:41
I'm not having a go at Allardyce; he is doing what has to be done but the transfer window(s) is / are essential to redressing some balance in the side so that responsibilities are more equally shared.
I truly believe that there isn't much more than can be achieved with the squad as it stands, so gathering the points towards edging to safety is the best policy at the moment while a new strategy is devised with hopefully a different pool of players to choose from.
106 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:14:08
107 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:15:07
Never did I imagine we would sink to these depths of pragmatism!
108 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:18:28
We are getting results with a lot of kids in the team, that bodes well. No Rooney or Gueye today, a player playing after a year out and a right back playing left back. I won't mention the other long-term injuries. Kids are inconsistent by their shear nature.
Considering all that, I will take a point away against anyone considering where we were very recently. Some of the performances lately have been industrial to say the least, functional if you want to be kind. However, I can understand why people are a bit disappointed why we didn't take it to West Brom today, but in the general scheme of things the upturn since Allardyce took over has been nothing short of miraculous points and results wise. Fixtures are coming thick and fast, expect changes galore, especially with injuries.
For one, I thought we looked much better with Niasse on the pitch and would play him in our next few matches and give Calvert-Lewin some time out.
How many on here would have thought we would be 9th going into the festive period? The Southampton game was a month ago today, literally 1 month ago! 7 league games played, W-4, D-3, L-0. F-11, A-2. Stats wise, that is pretty incredible. Performances really are secondary at the moment. I couldn't imagine anyone turning results around and being aesthetically pleasing too in such a short time, no manager whatsoever could do that imo. 1 month is a ridiculously short time. Add the Europa League game into the equation, 8 games in a month, none lost, 2 goals conceded, 14 scored!
It speaks for itself!
109 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:21:01
I know you have been touted as a replacement manager but bide your time.
110 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:33:36
111 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:36:11
All I've done is extrapolate numerically without expressing any opinion.
112 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:38:34
It occurred to me this could be the ToffeeWeb motto.
113 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:39:54
I looked at the team and the subs and didn't expect any real attacking play, it stems from the midfield, there is nobody there to inspire and coax the rest of the team into moving forward and creating space, they are like sheep grazing in the same couple of yards. It will stay like this until January when some new signings have to be made, just have to be, either permanent or on loan, this squad is not good enough to defend the way we do and attack the opposition with any real threat, hopefully it will come very soon but not until the squad is strengthened.
Some of the young players currently playing I expect to improve enormously with the experience they are getting now.
It would be interesting to get the views of some of the supporters returning from today's game, they have my utmost respect for the way they continue to support the Blues in this very disappointing season and they will be at Bournemouth in their droves again on Saturday, take a bow each and every one of you.
114 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:48:36
Fair point, but Koeman was facing these teams with his players and with ample time to prepare for them. Allardyce has taken another manager's team with no preseason or preparation time. Plus, we have faced both Chelsea and Liverpool in his first month in charge. Everton's slump started last season, not this!
115 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:52:56
And some on here hearten back to the Dogs of War – oh the way Parkinson, Horne and Ebbrell could tear teams another one with their Nil Satis attitude. Have I been watching another Everton?
116 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:53:19
I see Liverpool are now 4th after another high scoring victory, and we are stuck with the slowest team I've seen in the Premier League with a 20-year-old (who in my opinion) who would never even make a league cup squad for any top 6 team. Why on earth and how is Steve Walsh still at Everton?
1995 last time we won anything, Nothing is gonna change until we eventually move into the stadium at the docks. By the time that happens (in 3 to 5 years time) we will be even further behind and 20 years after Kings Dock fell through.
117 Posted 26/12/2017 at 19:58:32
118 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:05:49
119 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:09:55
Hopefully the posters who informed us we were 100% certs for relegation can relax then.
120 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:15:28
I just hope the geniuses that turned to him are already working on finding his replacement.
121 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:17:10
122 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:18:47
Young Lookman will be off somewhere else in no time. As will Sandro and Vlasic and who could blame them. And before anyone jumps on TW to tell me they are not good enough anyway Bollocks, they haven't been given any chance to show what they can do. So none of us know but what was wrong with having a look at them today for Christ's sake?
I can't stand watching the shite we are playing at the moment (we were fucking awful today) but I can put up with it until we are safe.
I totally get what Allardyce had to do to begin with and for that he gets a 10/10. But he has to show that he has another side to his game just as soon as it is mathematically impossible for us to get relegated and if he hasn't then he needs to be shown the door.
123 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:21:47
Had David Unsworth sent out that side today, set up like it was, I would have described it as one of the most cowardly performances by a coach that I have witnessed in 50 years as an Evertonian. That was turgid, spineless, negative, defeatist, uninspired, guileless, defensive, cowardly safety-first, insulting shite.
Anyone could do it. I used the phrase a while ago, but it is the non-league approach. Don't lose, don't worry about scoring; if we keep a clean sheet for long enough they will, like chimps writing Shakespeare, score one for us.
Today was the day for Sam to take a step forward. No excuses, we have better players than them. I fear he hasn't got it in him. If Unsworth had served that up today, after the confidence-building run we have had, I would have stated that he wasn't fit to manage our club.
124 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:23:55
125 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:24:21
In that time we have played 8 games, thus leaving very little time on the training ground, thus going back to basics and thus making us very hard to beat! Maybe I missed something and we were playing fantastically pleasing on the eye football before this!
What are people's realistic expectations?
126 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:25:54
Do Ajax have a decent striker we can swap for Klassen?
127 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:26:07
128 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:28:22
Even a top six side has a bad day at the office and gets beat by a lowly club Ask Chelsea versus West ham, Manu at Huddersfield
SA knows we have to be better in possession and his coaching team will now gradually instead of focusing 90/10 in training on defensive shape etc will look tom be more 60/40 and progressively get us going forward better.
We also need Wayne back in the side.
129 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:29:26
None of us know how much credit Unsworth should get for whatever he changed when he was in charge (though some have automatically awarded Big Sam the plaudits for the West Ham result just for visiting the dressing room and sitting in the stands!!!). It remains debatable whether Unsworth could have done a better job than he did if he had actually been awarded full manager status.
As far as I am concerned it is a good start so far with a fair amount of luck lending a helping hand. I want to see much more before I'm prepared to concede that Big Sam was undoubtedly the best choice for the job.
130 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:30:43
But not having posted all but a few times since he was appointed there are things to admire that I've not see in a Everton manager for some time.
Paul A Smith mentioned from game one how professional he and his team are. A point worth echoing. Meticulous, methodical and the preparation is evident. Cant honestly say the team has been as well prepared since Moyes.
A clear pattern of play, structure and direction is to be noted for helping players executing their responsibilities.
He has retained the younger players and even tried to rouse Sandro from a mid winter slumber. Fair dos.
But nothing on the pitch has surprised me nor stoked a fire which might I rekindle thing for me.
People compare back to Koeman, often to good effect, me just my own standards. Both he and Allardyce arent up to it.
Todays performance was by any standards not anywhere near good enough.
Furthermore In light of the fixtures-ahead in the new year this game and Bournemouth need more than what was provided today.
Very tough sledding at the moment. ☹️
131 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:45:03
So many top continental so called fashionable coaches could not guarantee going away to any Premier League team and not be turned over. All the top names either would not come or are only suited to Champions League squads .
Those throwing toys out of prams for the lack of attacking prowess and team continuity going forward are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think this management team is beatable in any way shape or form for what we need – stabilisation, professionalism and then continuous improvement and build.
Who are more likely to be here in 12-18 months Sam's Management Team or Williams, Martina, Schneiderlin, Lennon, Niasse, Mirallas, Klaassen, Baines, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Vlasic,
Sam will recruit better and balance the squad somewhat in January; and on the basis of strong shape get us moving forward scoring more goals and entertaining with new personnel and the improved young talent we have . He will make strides after new recruits in Jan and then move forward with more his team when further changes can be made in the summer and a proper pre-season.
Long live Sam!!
132 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:49:47
They also have David Neres who is a brazilian right sided winger who cuts inside on his left foot and is very clever at creating chances and has a turn of pace he for me with his brazilian pedigree looks like he could be worth a punt!
And also there is the previously Kasper Dolberg who still banging them in most weeks!
Klassen has got to be on his way in January he has shown himself to be nowhere near the standard we require to progress. Need to get as much as possible for him or like you suggest Phil a swap for one of Ajaxs best talents but preferably on a loan with option to buy at first to see if they can cut it!!
133 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:54:18
Am I happy we no longer look like relegation candidates? Of course.
Does he deserve credit for sorting out our defence? Sure
Do I think he is the man for anything like the long-term? Absolutely not.
You see, we already know Sam Allardyce. What we are seeing so far doesn't exactly change our pre-conceptions.
I thought he did a good job at Bolton; took them into the league, staved off relegation and then improved them enough to take them into the Europa league.
Not once in that period did his team finish higher nor player more entertaining football than Everton under David Moyes.
Let that sink in.
I don't actually hold any personal ill-will towards the man and I am pleased he has stopped the rot set in by two duff predecessors (that's Martinez and Koeman btw) but I fear our moronic board will give him the contract of a lifetime at the end of the season and we'll continue our slide away from the stable platform that the much-maligned nearly-man Moyes left us.
p.s. I quite like football, playing it and watching it. This stuff is almost unwatchable.
134 Posted 26/12/2017 at 20:55:05
We were very poor offensively, but the only players, who we have in the squad who can beat a man, and who also could have played today are Lookman, or Vlassic?
As others have stated, we need new players, and also some of the injured ones to recover. Its already been said but we used five kids today, and our keeper is also only very young for his position, so its not all doom and gloom, even though its hard to watch us at this present moment in time?
135 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:02:24
No doubt, though, Sam will win us over by agreeing that it was, indeed, turgid shite. He will be as baffled as the rest of us and we will admire his refreshing straight talking. Sometime soon, though, there will be a change. The shite being served will no longer be palatable just because the man serving it agrees that it is shite.
Today was bitterly disappointing because I was starting to believe that there was much more to Sam.
136 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:04:14
I hope he makes sure we keep a clean sheet at the expense of any attacking football.
Not for a second am I happy that he has taken a shambles and made us a team fighting for their lives, putting their bodies on the line by queuing up to throw themselves in the way of shots.
And I hope he doesn't take the next step to develop our attacking prowess. I'm a happy clapper you see.
137 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:04:19
138 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:04:25
139 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:05:38
Against Liverpool, Lovren makes a children's penalty. Otherwise, that game would have been lost.
Against Swansea, the referee sees two non-existent penalties. Otherwise, we probably would have lost the game.
Against Chelsea, our players take the ball out on the goal line. They also had a shot in the crossbar. Pickford flew from post to post to clear the danger. Under normal circumstances, we should have lost the game.
Against West Brom, Salomon Rondon slips when he goes to shoot the goal at a time that he was alone. Maybe, the result of the game would have been another.
In short, Sam Allardyce is the luckiest man in the world. There is no one with more luck than him. But you can not rely on luck all your life. Everton's performance has been terrible, I feel shame every time I see such a defensive and cowardly team. Maybe, when luck ends soon, the fans will understand who Sam Allardyce really is.
140 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:06:44
I'll judge Sam after a few transfer windows. Admittedly, the football is turgid right now but his hands are tied with one of the worst balanced squads I've ever seen. Good players terrible cohesion. If we're still seeing such pragmatic but painful football in 12 months time, I'll be the first to complain.
142 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:15:00
143 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:16:42
Did I want him as manager? Definitely not.
However, he has turned us round, there's no denying that.
He inherited a squad with players bereft of confidence, a number of key players long-term injured & a squad numerous people have identified & commented upon which is un-balanced, weak in key areas & has a number of players at the end of their Premier League careers.
That said, if this turgid football on show doesn't improve, I can see fans in their droves reacting.
Me personally I'll judge him when he's had an opportunity to bring his own players in, then let's see what he can do.
Do I expect things to change, no not immediately, if at all TBH, but I say give him a chance.
144 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:19:52
145 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:23:23
But the performances do concern me and as others have said it feels that we have had a little Lady Luck for once. If that luck runs out then the mood will change dramatically. Most can stomach poor football so long as the points are rolling in...
146 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:24:17
147 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:24:49
Along the same lines, why does Sam get all the praise for defensive solidity – everything he does is geared to this – but it is the crap players who aren't good enough going forward?
Will we stay up? Almost certainly.
Will Sam ever produce an attacking inventive team for more than the odd game? Personally I believe not
148 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:29:18
149 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:30:03
150 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:30:16
We have no genuine left-back to release the wide left midfielder to press forward more and combine on overlaps – is that Sam's fault?
We have no top-class centre-forward although Dominic Caclvert-Lewin has done very well – is that Sam's fault?
Our new centre-half lost his confidence before Sam arrived – is that Sam's fault?
Our record signing is still trying to find his form, though Sam didn't sign him – is that Sam's fault?
Our big buy from Palace got injured before Sam joined – is that Sams' fault?
Our big box-to-box midfielder buy from Ajax looks lightweight and overwhelmed. Not bought by Sam – is that Sam's fault?
I could go on even more but really anyone who criticises Sam at the moment is being a tad silly. He has been handed an unbalanced, dispirited, physically lightweight and mentally weak squad and has done wonders so far. I haven't a clue whether he can get his own preferred team to play decent football but we will know by the end of the season and he has done enough so far in my opinion to deserve the chance to show what he can do.
Christmas in 9th place rather than 18th is progress, however poor the entertainment is. A work in progress for me!
151 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:31:07
Now it's gritty realism and the same problems come back to haunt us. I hope I'm wrong, I really do...
152 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:38:11
153 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:40:59
And one other I've dismissed.
Have another look tomorrow 👍
154 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:43:58
Sam has inherited a shit team and it is probably a lot worse than most of the teams below. But where the bottom teams failed, Sam has found out our weaknesses (we cannot control a football) and he put 11 men behind the ball. Until Sam can wheedle out the crap and get his own players in, things will be the same.
Some people are saying they feel sorry for our away support. I bet our away support are happy with our blanks as opposed to getting goals shipped past us pre-Sam.
155 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:48:30
156 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:50:36
The players, against, Sam's wishes, decided to treat WBA like Barcelona and set out to get a point. It may be" a tad silly", but I thought the performance of our coach today was abject.
By the way, when will Sam be open to crticism? I have praised him; not today.
157 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:52:26
Now we have a clue, some hope for better things and good results. When he's not been firefighting, his Bolton team had some flair. But it was founded on being solid defensively too and all on a small budget at a weak team.
I fully expect to see better football after January and then after next summer but without sacrificing too much solidity either. It's been terrible watching us thus far the whole season but it's not Sam's fault! Those trying to minimise the stats are also forgetting that Koeman spent more than any Everton manager ever.
158 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:52:51
159 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:53:51
At the end of January.
160 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:59:11
But he's here now. To be honest the football is no worse than under Koeman, but we are more solid, so far. So long as we maintain solidity, that will be an improvement on Koeman. If we also play progressively better football, which is what Allardyce has intimated at, then it'll be even more improvement.
Unsworth began the increased solidity, and Allardyce has developed it further, based on the results we are seeing. Although I'm one of those who didn't want Allardyce, and would like nice football, I appreciate the steadying of the ship by Unsworth and him. I hope for and expect more quality in the football as we go on, once the solidity has led to assured safety. I must admit, I can't really see any gloating about superior knowledge from those who wanted him here. All I saw was a desire for solidity and safety before anything else, given the state we were in under Koeman.
161 Posted 26/12/2017 at 21:59:30
We also lack any sort of creativity in midfield with possession being given away, cheaply, time after time.
162 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:02:10
Well fellas, luckily, it seems, I was unable to watch any of that game and only followed sporadically on the forum (where Colin's turkey soup offered about the most interest) but it appears we were running off 11 Christmas dinners today, and I note from the Premier League Fantasy lLeague stats that Pickford was worth 10 points today including a 3-point bonus. Does that mean he was our MotM? Because, if that was the case, it paints a sorry picture of our intent vs West Brom who should have been there for the taking.
I never thought I would say this but I think for the sake of being 1 point worse off I would prefer to have learned that we had had a real go at this game with the intention of winning even if it resulted in a loss. I am quite sure significant lessons would have been learned.
It seems our midfield today were unable to offer anything much and the obvious conclusion from the last two games to me is that, without Rooney on the pitch, we are bereft of ideas. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Next weekend I am going to Bournemouth with two of my sons and we are thoroughly looking forward to our first competitive match this season. Perhaps this time on Saturday I will be able to write more considered opinions and after today I sincerely trust Sam will put together a real attempt to win despite anticipation of a visit from the Mancs on Monday and a trip to Anfield on Friday.
After all, there is nothing that will give the boys a bigger lift for those games than to go in after a win.
164 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:09:29
Did you notice we had 7 players under 21 at some stage who are Everton to the core, running there socks of against seasoned pros! With good coaching, these lads could well be playing superb football in Bramley-Moore.
So I for one am still dreaming about the future.
165 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:11:37
Liverpool and Chelsea were necessarily pragmatic, while Huddersfield and Swansea were matches we started flat but ended strong. Today was the first outing under Big Sam in which I felt actively frustrated and dispirited by the approach. That being said, I'll continue to take things match by match, see how things shake out during the January transfer window and judge where things stand at season's end.
166 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:12:08
167 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:13:52
I voted against Sam, I don't know anyone who voted for him. It would be interesting to know who did.
My take now is he is here now. Let's back him while he is.
168 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:22:02
Because of the start we had there's effectively nothing to play for in the league so I'm not concerned about dropping 2 points in this kind of match.
169 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:30:26
I also don't know anyone who voted for him, but then I haven't asked. Presumably he was voted for by those who argued for him to be here when Unsworth was in charge.
170 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:30:39
No incoming manager could turn this lot into a decent team in a matter of weeks. So for the time being I am content to let Sam get on with the job of garnering points wherever he can, make us safe and hopefully use the January and summer transfer windows to rebalance the squad.
I see a few are protesting that Sam is a lucky manager. It is about time we had one of those.
171 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:30:42
172 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:30:59
I agree it was dreadful to watch, and can't accept that defensive solidity prevents some linked-up play, some creativity, and a few chances. And I don't think Sam Allardyce accepts that either, but he's the man in charge, and he's the one who has to change that.
I think the game at Bournemouth will be more favourable (if Rooney is back), as the Cherries are much more suspicious defensively than West Brom.
The three centre backs are intended to give the full-backs more freedom to attack; they are not meant to add another man to the defence, and I don't think that would have been Allardyce's intent, either. Chelsea deploy such a system all the time, as we all know.
173 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:32:40
174 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:34:52
There are a number of players he clearly does not rate so let's see what happens when he can buy and sell. Only then will we see if he can move further forward or if his limit is defending. I think there is more there yet but who knows I just give thanks he came and has taken us from 18th to 9th. If he can't produce a good footballing side he will be moved on that's why the contract is short!
175 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:36:57
176 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:40:45
177 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:42:35
When he came here one month ago we had 12 points and were certainties for relegation because there was no fight or will to win in the team whatsoever.
At that stage I was trying to figure out how we would get 20 points by the end of December. We now have 27.
The priority was to avoid relegation because, in my view, our whole future as a football club depended on it. We are nearly there. The other stuff can wait until we are.
That is why I am behind him 100%. I am tipping our major shareholder is also.
178 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:47:00
An alternative view is that they were clear ‘rope-a-dope tactics (‘dopes - no I wont go there!)
Another tactical master stroke from SA.
For every OTT anti-SA comment, there will be an OTT pro-SA one.
Its so easy to poke holes in the entrenched views on here. But its getting very dull now -and repetitive -like trying to convince that Spinal Tap guitarist that the music isnt louder just because his amp goes up to 11. My last post on the subject as the comment also applies to me. I just hate obvious bias when I see it.
John #147 states there is no evidence SA will change the way we play. Well there is no evidence he wont change the way we play either. FFS - hes been here a month with the same inherited shite that was shipping goals and points for fun prior to his arrival. Hes had no transfer window but has the best first 7 results of any EFC manager. In the same breath, John believes we would have stayed up under Unsy. No evidence provided but hey-ho who needs evidence with entrenched views?
The football is crap - agreed.
But that is because the squad is crap / unbalanced. Nothing to do with SA but hes doing a damn good job of accruing points in a very short space of time with the resources available. Points are what was required. Fact.
If weve had a bit of luck for once why complain? Weve had more than our fair share of the other stuff over the years. But there is no evidence of luck. (If an opponents shot hits the woodwork, its not bad luck. It was an inaccurate shot.)
Guidos post at #139 is one of the unluckiest / disingenuous comments ive read for a while however (which is some achievement on here). And Guido, im guessing (in the dark because I dont have any evidence) ive been a ‘real fan much longer than you have - with all the associated costs, emotional turmoil, frustrations etc. You feel shame? Did you feel proud when we were getting humiliated under Koeman? I feel relief rather than shame as a ‘real fan.
For those who want to see “much more” before getting on the Sam train, it cuts both ways.
Give Sam a bleeding chance.
Hes been here a ‘kin month.
He was hung, drawn and quartered by some on here before he started.
Sam wins, we win. Simples.
Ray Robinson #140 - spot on! My sentiments exactly.
Apologies for the long post.
Back to my film :)
179 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:54:17
We both won't be happy if he doesn't have us attacking a lot more by the end of the transfer window, equally we are both happy with the turn around he has overseen. I think he may surprise us to be honest.
181 Posted 26/12/2017 at 22:58:07
Possibly with reference to a frightened animal with its tail between its legs.
Sound like Sam Allardyce does it?
182 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:10:14
For now it ain't pretty but the rot has stopped. Hopefully and pending Rodney's availability and fitness some guile and shape will return to our game.
For me lacking Rooney and Gana there was no threat today. Bolasie I'm made up is back but bringing him back as a sub , with gradual longer stints, I in my view would be more effective.
Here's to the very best of the rest of the Festive Season to all Evertonians.🍺👍
183 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:12:30
184 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:25:53
185 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:26:05
Mike, how about almost 400 games managed at Bolton, 200 at West Ham and generous stints at Newcastle and Blackburn?
So many fans acting like they don't know the man. Okay, feeling protective of him for the now whilst results have improved is one thing, but surely nobody thinks he should be here for the long-term.
186 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:35:30
“So many fans acting like they dont know the man”
Like you do? Please enlighten us.
All of my posts point to one thing - give the man a chance. But bias / entrenched views are rife when it comes to SA.
I hope he is here long term because that means he will have been successful.
You provided no evidence against my points.
Very poor. Must try harder.
(And ive had a few tonight as well.)
Andy #184 - good point.
187 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:48:18
188 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:56:31
Allardyce is instilling good habits, this takes time and we've seen with Martinez just how quick it takes to lose them.
You can't, well shouldn't just sack him off in May and go for some sexy flavour of the moment.
Given the 18th position when Koeman was sacked...18thkeep that at the front of your mind - don't brush it into the inconvenient truth box, his was a crucial appointment, I think he must be given the chance - in a properly managed way, to grow into the job.
How long do we wait is the key?
Which makes the choice of his successor, if and when, even more important.
What? The game? One of the most boring I've ever seen, FWD'd half of it then turned over for the Ashes.
189 Posted 26/12/2017 at 23:58:25
I say we should 'know' the man because he has been a manager for a long time and we've seen how his teams have performed for hundreds of games.
Not a smoking gun I know but pretty much circumstantial evidence that he won't change the way we play much. Maybe you don't watch much football outside of Everton, I don't know.
Time at the bar!
190 Posted 26/12/2017 at 00:11:55
They authorise the expenditure and sales, they accrue even more wealth from success and they therefore surely deserve criticism for the ineptitude they displayed. The pro-anti Allardyce discussion is a very convenient side-show for the truly culpable.
Expecting Allardyce or anyone else to cook up a gourmet dish from ingredients with next to no provenance, such as he's inherited, is asking too much. Christ, producing even a tasty meal is beyond him right now as he rightly strives (with success) to stop others shitting in our pan.
In doing what he does so well he serves up stodge all the way but if the board/owner don't pull their finger(s) out in January I hope there'll be a visible diminution of gates to signify that it's just not acceptable, because even those numbskulls will know what that means.
191 Posted 26/12/2017 at 00:15:29
Personally, I consider your post to be all over the place. Those of us who want to see ‘much more' are not automatically those who were shredding him before he was appointed so why link the two? Oh that's right it suits your ‘narrative' that we've prejudged him and aren't giving him a fair chance. I'm happy to give him time and I am pleased with the results so far but equally I'm not astounded by anything that has happened since he took charge.
People complain about our bad luck all the time, so how can it be wrong to point out when the opposition has been unusually profligate or the officials mistaken in our favour when it is necessary to counter the barrage of posts that want the manager to get all the credit for the results?
You applaud Ray's post and see nothing wrong with it? So a straw man argument that the only viable alternative is to be just like Swansea, and a 12-month timescale before we see any improvement on the current ‘turgid shite' is okay by you?
192 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:16:23
If you are sober posting such nonsense, God help you.
I refer you back to my previous post as the penny has not dropped with you despite the big clue provided.
You are comparing those clubs (resources, ambitions etc) with EFC?
So how can a managers record be compared?
Its an entirely different brief.
Maybe you dont watch much football?
(No offence, I cant be bothered replying any more. But enjoy your evening. And definitely do not drink.)
193 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:20:08
Anyway, does every thread on a match have to be a debate on the merits or lack thereof of Samuel Allardyce Esq? It is, frankly, becoming a bit how shall I put it? yes, boring, and 'turgid'.
194 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:26:53
195 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:28:32
You found my post to Guido extremely insulting?
Oh dear. Sensitive chap, are you?
Or does that fit “your narrative”?
You are not astounded by anything Allardyce has done so far? (He's been here a month.)
The rest of your post is all over the place. >(Must try harder).
I'm off to bed. To be continued. If I can be bothered.
196 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:36:08
Why not suggest who you would want and then lets see the colour of your football knowledge . no wouldn't think so . see you all running to hide behind the couch or a convenient bus. No don't expect any of you would suggest anyone as there is no one better for EFC where we are.
Some are so naive and waste our emotional energy with slagging off Moyes, Martinez, Koeman and now Allardyce.
My message is suggest an alternative to see the colour of your analysis and knowledge and then in the mean time get behind our club. get behind the next and best chance we have.
Every manager and every managers era is an opportunity . one of these days they will succeed so get behind every one of them; that will help them, our fans and our players.
I did not like Gordon Lee - but I got behind him and our players. Please do the courtesy and respect the club, the players, the fans on here and the management team. Alternatively, keep typing ridiculous hypocritical, hyperbole and subjective bigotry so you feel better but not help the club or your fellow fans.
197 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:39:11
Me wrong, he was conformed as manager on 30th November, less than 4 weeks in the job!
Where are we now? Where were we 4 weeks ago?
198 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:40:37
Or Dyche Burnley going to be in the Champions league aren't they??
Or is it Eddie Howe doing a fantastic job at Bournemouth.
Or maybe some German, French , Spanish manager !!! Got to improve on the shit we are playing.
Hang on a minute Are we still going down? Losing 4 or 5 on the bounce? conceding 3 or 4 every game.
Who cares? so long as we play like we used to in the 60s or 80s School of science and all that... Fat sam out? Not for me lets see what he can do at a real football club with a bit of cash.
Guilty untill proven innocent by some on here.
Don't get me wrong I like entertaining football like the next person, But to entertain you need the players to do it. We don't have them.
199 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:02:50
In my book, the turn around is excellent. I want flowing football and entertainment, however not relegation. Get to 40 points by hook crook or bloody good luck I really don't care. The flowing stuff will come.
200 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:03:58
As far as Allardyce is concerned, we know what he has done for other clubs that's why we brought him in and it looks like he has already almost achieved that goal to keep us up... period! If he does nothing else this season, he has earned his money and, after the Southampton game, most of us would have been happy with that, because make no mistake, we were odds on to go down.
Allardyce has the reputation he has, because of what he has achieved with other teams in similar positions as we were in. Teams who were in a shambles, no spirit, unable to pick up points home or away, heading for relegation. He kept them up that's what he does!
Now, is that all we want as Evertonians? Of course not! But, for now, I think we have to grin and bear it, support the team and manager, and hope for more stable times ahead.
Will Allardyce push on to make us a force in the Premier League? I don't know. He has never had a team with the potential we have, or the money to back him up (supposedly)... So I guess we'll see.
201 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:18:08
I also don't think Guido should suggest what constitutes a fan but to insinuate he is a liar or stupid is not on. He is entitled to an opinion. Fine if you disagree but if you sink to a lower level expect some criticism.
David Israel, it seems natural to me to comment both on what you think of the team's performance and whether there are any clues to the potential longer term future of our club. I don't have a problem with any rationally argued point of view, just those who try to shut down debate by misrepresenting what is being said.
Steven Jones, sometimes the honest answer is that people just don't know what is the best option. As none of us actually have a crystal ball it is impossible to say whether we would actually now be better or worse off if we had appointed Unsworth, Silva, Tuchel or anyone else. As none of us know the answer, it is actually a bit annoying when people are posting that nobody could actually have done better than Sam Allardyce. Considering the manager is continually stating that the players still aren't performing to the level he would expect from them, why should fans have to be happy with what he is producing?
He's done well in terms of results so far, and he is making the right noises about the performances. It should be okay to debate everything else.
202 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:29:00
I mean if he was as good as you and others are still trying to make out, surely the likes of Swansea are banging on his door begging him seen as he did such a miraculous job?
203 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:29:45
£45M for Sigurdsson? Having a laugh! I could deliver the free kicks he did tonight. We can't keep the ball and must be the worst team to watch in the Premier League; it was like watching 2 pub teams on the local park.
204 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:32:26
Can't comment on our attacking 'prowess' because the BBC didn't show any. Presumably because we didn't show any.
I predicted 0-0 earlier, based on the fact these are toothless teams right now. West Brom demonstrated this by at least showing they had only gums, no teeth. Maybe we have some but we didn't even try opening our mouth.
To be fair to Allardyce, he has actually managed teams that play decent football. Bolton were most definitely not wham-bam football when they had their best team. But then they also had players like Okocha, Djorkaeff, N'Gotty, Campo, Hierro and solid top flight players like Nolan and Davies. Maybe that's more than we have right now. Let's face it, it is more.
And as he rightly pointed out in his post match interview, repeatedly giving the ball away is not in his game plan. In truth, so fragile is confidence right now, they all look scared of making a progressive pass. How to fix that is the next challenge for Sam.
I'm still grateful for every point we get at the moment but next game, I'd like to see Davies and Calvert-Lewin rested, the former because his form is pretty awful right now, the latter because we are burning him out by expecting him to run around after lost causes from our current 'hoof it forward' approach and anyway, Niasse is at least as good at doing that.
205 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:35:32
206 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:36:13
We have very average players imo go out not playing percentages being organised and making ourselves hard to beat will result in the form and results prior to Allardyce taking over.
New managers need time and a decent transfer kitty, Allardyce has earned that with the run he has managed to achieve with the players he currently has to choose from.
207 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:43:04
208 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:55:38
Some people gave all the credit for the West Ham performance to Allardyce, others are saying how much fitter he has got the players compared to when Koeman was in charge. One is pure conjecture and the other ignores the incremental progression of fitness at the top level. Why should people not be challenged for making such claims when it is simply to confirm their own bias?
I am trying to eliminate the bias by making sure that everyone gets their share of the credit where it can reasonably be allocated. I'm not ‘for' Rhino in exactly the same way that I'm not ‘for' Big Sam. I have seen nothing this season that guaranteed that Unsworth couldn't have turned things around, and nothing that guarantees that Big Sam was the best appointment.
I remain open minded on the subject, even though some people seem to think that is some sort of crime.
209 Posted 27/12/2017 at 01:57:43
Here are the results pre-Allardyce, with shit football included. Personally I thought Unsworth was hung out to dry and the managers we could realistically get were all below par for what we needed, including Allardyce! However, in the (less than a) month he's been in charge though, he has performed miracles, well almost!
Just as a reminder here are the results before he joined, minus the Euro qualifiers. I can quantify why I left them out if anyone really needs an explanation!
Koeman's results in bold!
Everton 4- 0 West Ham United
Southampton 4 -1 Everton
Everton 1-5 Atalanta
Crystal Palace 2-2 Everton
Everton 3 -2 Watford
Lyon 3- 0 Everton
Leicester City 2-0 Everton
Carabao Cup Chelsea 2-1 Everton
Everton 2-5 Arsenal
Everton 1-2 Lyon
Brighton and Hove Albion 1-1 Everton
Everton 0-1 Burnley
Everton 2-2 Apollon Limassol
Everton 2-1 Bournemouth
Everton 3-0 Sunderland
Manchester United 4-0 Everton
Atalanta 3-0 Everton
Everton 0-3 Tottenham Hotspur
Chelsea 2- 0 Everton
Manchester City 1-1 Everton
Everton 1- 0 Stoke City
210 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:00:32
211 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:00:56
We had to make a very drastic change which was to most of our dislike and we are seeing the positives and negatives of that change right now. The football is embarrassingly horrible to watch and the quicker we reach safety the better so another change can take place in the form of players or manager or probably both.
A big positive in this is the amount of young players in our team right now and most of them British. I don't think there can be another club in the top flight with so many.
212 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:01:41
I read your posts and for one nano second I think he actually might have deeper insights that we could all learn from. Gain a deeper insights into Allardyce...then I read his insight that Everton's tactical gameplan was "rope a dope" amd I am forced to just laugh my ass off.
213 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:01:57
West Bromwich Albion 0 0 Everton
Everton 0 0 Chelsea
Everton 3 1 Swansea City
Newcastle United 0 1 Everton
Liverpool 1 1 Everton
Apollon Limassol 0 3 Everton
Everton 2 0 Huddersfield Town
214 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:02:29
In all seriousness, I was against him but have changed my mind, appreciate the emphasis on shape and defence until we find a renewed confidence, and welcome his honest, and dare I say it, charismatic interviews.
I'm perfectly willing to give him a lot longer in the seat and look forward to seeing what he can do. Along with Shakespeare and Sammy I finally think we are, at the very least, being managed.
A question. Although I don't expect him to be back up to speed, what were peoples' impressions of Bolasie? Did he seem like he had lost part of his game or are the signs positive for a full return to form. I hope he will play a big part in our resurgence.
In summary, not a day to remember but another away point. Bring on United, who actually looked shit today.
215 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:05:17
It surely can't be unreasonable to expect two transfer windows and the projected return of players from injury to yield a decent improvement in performances before next Christmas, can it?
216 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:35:31
Although the results were undoubtedly terrible, I think some reasonable overall performances were tarnished by defensive collapses. What is harder to judge is when improvements in the players training may be likely to actually bear fruit.
Is it possible to ascribe all the improvements post Koeman to just the most recent regime? Only if you believe Unsworth changed nothing or any of the players say he contributed nothing.
Equally, some very ropey performances since Sam took over don't have to be ignored just because the results were okay. I'm just looking for balance in the arguments from both sides.
217 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:39:13
Any away point gained away from home when not anywhere near are best regardless of what place the opponents occupy, is not a bad sign imo.
I would rather play shite and earn a point than go away be great going forward but lose 4-3 .
218 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:47:03
4-0 5-0 results used to be shock results now they are the norm. That's because the Premier League at the lower levels has too many foreign managers who are trying to play like dear old Pep and Her Klopp.
Klopp was praising Swansea's style of football. Why? Because they are easy to beat. This is the lowest standard I've seen the league. You're entitled to your opinion. Defence wins leagues and always will.
219 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:47:47
It takes two to Tango as they say, and West Brom were pretty dire too, and being the home side, they did manage a few wayward shots, which I think were meant for goal.
It exemplified how much Rooney and Gana were missed, we were basically lucky in defence and Martina, well enough said!
I watched the highlights of Bournemouth v West Ham, and we will get battered if we play anything like we did today.
I don't know what has happened to young Tom Davies, he was awful today, and wasn't alone there either by the way.
I could see the Sam's on the touchline via the camera and neither was happy with what was going on, which is why I alluded to the sub selection previously.
220 Posted 27/12/2017 at 02:48:32
If Everton have a good transfer window with 1 or 2 better players may give the team better flowing football. But that's a big if. More likely, Everton will graft to the end of the season. The next season is when the expectations begin all over again. That's when Big Sam will have to start earning his wages.
221 Posted 27/12/2017 at 03:14:40
Why play three centre-backs when the opposition attack is useless.
Why play Marina and Kenny as wing-backs when we have Lennon and Vlasic.
We are leaving Calvert-Lewin on his own up front and almost every ball is booted out of defence.
When you have 5 at the back and two defensive midfielders you have to play the ball out not kick it long because no-one is there..
When you talk about complacency I think that's what Sam did today. He wanted to give Bolasie a run out and thought we could sneak 1 or 2 goals.
I don't expect this line-up against Bournemouth and I have to praise Schneiderlin and Martina today who I thought played well. Bolasie and Davies were the weak links today. I also have my doubts about Michael Keane who goes to sleep too often for my liking.
222 Posted 27/12/2017 at 03:22:20
He's massively experienced. He's managed at 7 Premier League clubs. The vast majority of the time, his football has been dire.
People defended the appointment by saying that maybe this is finally a chance for him to change the opinions held by the public. Well, he hasn't done it his whole career and hasn't shown any sign so far with us. He's the scorpion in the take off the scorpion and the frog.
We're getting exacting what 'we' paid for.
I'm happy he's arrested the slide, and that a team that has been paid above mistake wages out are safe from relegating. He's done exactly was expected. But anything beyond this season is too long.
223 Posted 27/12/2017 at 04:05:19
I accept the way we set up against Liverpool and Chelsea for a draw. But against West Brom, the priority on the minds should be 3 points. Good to have Bolasie back, gonna take him time but am sure he will be sound. Barkley gets in this team hands down. I personally do hope he stays. I like the lad and think he can do a job for us but if he won't sign the deal, then maybe it's best we sell him rather than a free in the summer.
It's January next month a lot of improvement needed.
Wingers (pace and creativity)
A difficult period for signings but Walsh and the board need to redeem themselves after the summer fail. This to me is make or break for Walsh next month.
Bournemouth next. Will it be easy?? No (thinking of our last two visits). Tight at the back again please. But please more and more pace and creativity up the field. Vlasic or Lookman. Hopefully we'll have Rooney back for this one. And end an abysmal 2017 away record with a rare win away from home.
225 Posted 27/12/2017 at 07:56:35
We were better in the last game and only for a short while in this with Beni on the pitch. He has good positional sense, has a good first touch, good awareness and plays a positive ball calmly in tight situations.
He is much better at this than Tom. He is certainly better at this than Schneiderlin.
Along with Rooney back and Gana, we could have much better transition.
226 Posted 27/12/2017 at 08:05:07
It does take time and the highly experienced and professional coaching team which includes yes Sammy, Shakespeare and Ryland Morgans.
Ryland is exceptional at fitness, performance and it will progressively contribute to playing a higher pressing tempo to deliver more transition ball in the oppositions half and more defensive resilience and high speed breaking. This will begin to show great value from January onwards. Neither Koeman nor Martinez had this in their locker.
The incoming signings will also fit into this attacking style of progressive football with what Allardyce calls "quality up front" we have poor Calvert-Lewin running him self daft to play a crucial role but he is only learning his trade.
Patience for the full jigsaw to come together. I for one am looking forward to the Sam evolution unfolding.
BTW, we are not ready for expanding the play with Man Utd and LFC after the Bournemouth away trip.
227 Posted 27/12/2017 at 08:15:10
228 Posted 27/12/2017 at 08:32:55
Phase 2: Get a quality striker, get a quality left-back, become more offensive with better possession and link-up play, become more aesthetically pleasing to watch.... Entertain, above all, do better than Phase 1!
This is the plan; get used to it. At the moment, it could hardly be going any better.
It has been a dramatic turnaround since the sad Southampton performance. We need to be thankful for the fact that the combined efforts of Sam his team, Unsy and the players have turned it around and given us an opportunity to move to Phase 2.
229 Posted 27/12/2017 at 08:35:11
We have loads injured, no striker, and our full backs are not creative. I don't believe telling them to bomb forward (even Kenny) would help produce anything creatively. Our first-choice full-backs are creative.
Schneiderlin has been pants since he joined us although even he in last two games has looked better.
We have two creative promising youngsters in our squad, Lookman and Vlasic. Both have massive flaws which hopefully will get better but they need to play to do this. However, better for creative players unless exceptional (which they're not) to do this is a better side than ours is currently.
We could play better football, Swansea, Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Palace all play better but Big Sam was not brought into do this with this team. He was brought in to make us safe we were serious relegation candidates.
230 Posted 27/12/2017 at 08:47:17
I didn't see a great player even before his injury. Competent for sure but not tearing the grass up. Why are people expecting such great things from him on his return after a year out?
I wish him well for the sake of all of us but don't see the second coming here.
231 Posted 27/12/2017 at 08:55:43
Youngest Everton team since Newcastle away in Feb 2009 (the game Nolan did Anichebe and Arteta did his knee).
Only Williams over 30. Davies 19, Calvert-Lewin & Kenny 20, Holgate 21, Pickford 23, Keane 24.
Future looking good.
232 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:01:48
Pros and Cons, we think we know them both, but the sentence that has stood out to me this morning was written by Derek Thomas @188.
He said that Allardyce is instilling good habits and this takes time, and we all saw how quick it is to lose them, when we think back to Martinez.
Not to mention Koeman though, Derek, because it looks like he never looked at our defence at the start of this season, because he was that busy trying to put his square peg signings into round holes.
233 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:03:03
Thought before the game with Rooney we would prevail. When I saw the team I couldn't see past 0-0.
Those complaining about negativity are wide of the mark though. It was three at the back, not five. Every time we got possession the full-backs got into the opposition half. We played two up front, playing there and under no expectations of defensive duties.
We had a midfield three, one of which, sometimes two, looked to get forward when we were in possession. So the team set-up was not at all negative.
It wasn't what I'd have done. Firstly, with only one days training to get into the shape, it was a risk too far. Secondly, when we have done this with Holgate on the right he has looked vulnerable when pulled wide. It was admittedly two years ago but we did the same at Stoke and got turned over.
Pulling Sigurdsson into the centre negated any real influence he might have had on the game. Out wide left is far from his best position but at least it gives him some space to work in. That said, forced into a more defensive approach, West Brom worked their humps off, he did a professional job.
The main beef I had was the poor quality of passing. We weren't good enough overall as the opposition closed us down. It's clear that the manager wants the ball played forward and we are never content to play it around at the back for any length of time now, as we had been previously. There is an obvious pressure to pass forward coming from the bench as you watch.
Credit to the opposition. As soon as they lost control of the ball, they got behind the ball and stayed deep until they got it back. In those circumstances,I'd have been less inclined to get forward and tried to stretch the play and make the spaces for easier passes. In some respects, not doing that made it easier for West Brom.
A couple of final points. I suspect Sam would never have sold Gareth Barry. He would have been a big plus for us yesterday.
Tom Davies is struggling. He has physical strength to resist challenges but his range of passing seems limited over distance. Anyone noticed that his shooting seems to lack any power?
Three days to set up for this wasn't enough. Between Bournemouth and Man Utd, it's two. Play "You are the manager": How would you manage that?
234 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:04:03
Saying that, we did pick up two points. Let's see who Sam signs in January before slagging him off. The squad is very unbalanced lacking pace and cohesion, we do look a lot better however when Rooney is involved. Overall, Sam has done a excellent job so far.
235 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:12:07
January is notorious for lack of available quality at the right price.
Be prepared to be underwhelmed. We will be lucky to get good long-term signings in. We have been lucky in some games... maybe Sam's luck will continue in the transfer window?
236 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:34:11
What is Calvert-Lewin supposed to do with 50-60 yard balls pumped at him and two centre-halves on him and no support for knock downs?
Time to take Williams out of the side and away from Goodison he couldn't mark a bingo board, can't jump and to top it off, has a fucking stupid haircut.
Martina is neither a right- nor left-back. Another player to be shown the exit door,
Tom Davies... headless chicken. He hasn't got a clue what he is going to do when he has the ball, his tackling is woeful and his general awareness on the pitch seems to be like a 7-year-old playing with his mate, as long as he gets a kick it don't matter where it goes. Championship player at best.
Do our players actually use a football in training? Our ball control and passing is abysmal. It seems our players get a pass and do not know where their next potential pass should go. I often see a potential pass and a player making a great run but the ball goes in the opposite way.
We made West Brom look a decent side and if bringing in a new striker/goalscorer people think that would be the answer, wrong, not with long passes from goalie or centre-half.
Well done, the two Sams, for steadying the ship... let's change this shipwreck to a Royal (Blue) yacht!!!
237 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:40:29
238 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:44:40
Now, 4 wins and 3 draws later with two goals against and 10 for, and in the top half and still with the same attack options we've had since Lukaku left, people are moaning cos were not Brazil @1970! Oh, and never will be apparently!
We've improved more in 7 games than in the 18 months previous and whilst the koppites and Adrian Durham may sneer no-one is laughing at us anymore!
Believe it or not I am NOT an Allardyce fan - I howled when he was appointed, but he's sorting out the defensive frailties without an attacking option to speak of, hopefully until the window. It's not going to be pretty until our defence is confidently solid.
He's going about it the right way in my opinion but I hope (and do believe) that this isn't the long term plan. Do yourselves a favour and put “I must have more patience” at the top of your New Year resolutions!
239 Posted 27/12/2017 at 09:56:04
That will do me for now.
240 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:00:56
They're not saying that now. Far from being a laughing stock, we're now hard to beat, even against the 'top-6'. And I'm still smiling at Klopp's meltdown and stupidity after the derby. One thing he'll be doing now is not taking any chances against us. That's how much things have changed.
241 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:04:52
Tierney or Bryan in at left-back, Nzonzi in or Barkley given a new contract. Keeping the resilience while add an attacking threat is the next step. We will see what Mr Walsh has been up to very soon...
242 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:13:17
But he has done well. Being unbeaten after 7 games given how it was going under Rhino is a superb start.
However, playing 5 at the back and ultra-defensively against the league's 19th best team might be acceptable for now, to steady the ship, but it's not good enough going forward.
I am prepared, as Mark Murphy says, to be patient but that patience is not infinite. By the end of the season, given how much we spent in summer, grinding out dismal nil-nils needs to be a thing of the past. But, for now, he's done well, even if I still don't like the man.
243 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:27:15
Some fans say he has made us more solid at the back, well if you are going to play 10 men behind the ball then I would expect to be more solid. Apart from the shot from Niasse towards the end of the game, we have played 3 halves of football without a shot on target. When he took over after the West Ham game we were 13th not 18th as someone suggested.
I can't believe so many will accept this style of football, and I know many wil say we needed points when he came. Well accepting that at what point do you expect us to be playing a more offensive game.
I said a couple of weeks back that Calvert-Lewin was nowhere near ready to be leading the line and the sooner the window opens and we can get at least another striker the better. But I cant accept with the players at his disposal we cant play a more attacking game.
244 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:27:19
"January is notorious for lack of available quality at the right price."
The difference is, John, is that we are entering a World Cup year and there will be players who are not getting regular football who will see that as an end to their World Cup hopes. A loan deal or a deal which allows them to showcase their talents will be easier to negotiate, don't you think?
245 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:51:18
I don't think many would argue that we wouldn't have lost heavily vs the Koppites and Chelsea and Newcastle and West Brom would almost certainly have broken their bad runs of form under the previous manager. I can't prove that obviously but does anyone disagree?
Here's to a brand new year and continuing improvement with a couple of decent signings and at least two statement wins in January!
246 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:51:20
You didn't watch many Walter Smith or David Moyes games, then?
247 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:54:20
He has set us up to get the best out of them and support them as best we can. Now we aren't conceding 3-4 goals a game and are able to compete. If he plays any other way then we will almost certainly go back to being terrible at the back and losing.
We should be grateful for his skillset. It's the best we can hope for until we get better players.
248 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:54:37
249 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:56:57
The players you are all worried have lost their way IE Schneiderlin, didn't play nice football in his best form. Gana neither.
Can you lot honestly say having Lukaku last season didn't save our performances game after game? We beat city 4-0 with 4 shots on target. That doesn't happen every week. That was with a £70 million striker in our favour. Apart from Lukaku, who in our squad is worth half of that fee? Barkley and Coleman maybe? 2 players missing.
Your already saying Sigurdsson is good but not worth £40 million. How on earth can you expect good football?
Allardyce in my opinion knows the limitations of these players available now and we are getting points from very average tired players. The players who can carry the ball and take pressure off the team, allowing them to move around the pitch better are all missing. When Coleman, Barkley and Bolasie are all fit and playing in the same side you would have to be mad to think the football won't improve.
On Batshuayi, I wouldn't sign him while Chelsea will start games with no recognised striker and he's on the bench. What does that say?
250 Posted 27/12/2017 at 10:57:47
What did you expext? Free-flowing Barcelona type attacking football with the squad we have?
You would think this has been going on for months not a couple of weeks.
We are now well away from the danger zone and looking up not behind us. What did you expect???? Who did you want in and where would we be now with your choice?
If you are not happy with the style of play that has got us out of the shit what do you think we should have done over the last couple of weeks with the players available?
251 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:02:41
252 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:05:14
Just because we didn't get the attacking outcome we wanted doesn't mean to say we can't praise the defensive side yesterday. And that's what we'll build on. A pity Sam didn't buy wisely for us in the last couple of transfer windows...!
253 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:09:17
254 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:15:43
We could have been in the Champions League places if Koeman or even Unsworth were just as lucky as Allardyce. Do you seriously put the change in results and being a much better organised team who now happen to have a gameplan which wasn't evident under the former manager down to luck?
255 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:23:32
Reading the posts, it is basically a case that we are all delighted with the results but not with the quality of football. Some are prepared to give him time and others do you think we should get rid of him already after this run of results? Really????
He has had barely five weeks and has done wonders with our resilience and league placing he has earned the chance to show what he can do with the rest of the team once he has got rid of the dross and brought his own players in. Judge him then, not now.
256 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:30:18
No need for anything further. Dave sums it up perfectly.
257 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:36:57
258 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:48:33
The golfer you refer too is Gary Player. However, he was quoting a fellow golfer, Jerry Barber.
Credit to Player, he has always acknowledged Barber for making the comment.
259 Posted 27/12/2017 at 11:59:00
Maybe I'm looking for positives, but like a lot of people (99.9% I hope) I don't think any Everton manager would get away with playing like this long-term so maybe Koeman's transfer policy has made Big Sam's job a lot easier?
260 Posted 27/12/2017 at 12:20:12
This is the same set of players that, prior to Allardyce taking over, scored 4 against West Ham and 2 away at Crystal Palace, so it wasn't a team that couldn't score goals. Also, apart from 2 players leaving and 5 or 6 coming in, finished 7th well clear of the 8th club.
261 Posted 27/12/2017 at 12:27:27
Bonjour, Monsieur Brian.
262 Posted 27/12/2017 at 12:47:21
I can't take paying for TV, live matches or merchandise to condone the hiring of this guy and won't until he's gone but have to say he's done a good job in steadying the ship, restoring both professionalism and pride. Still wrong seeing him & Lee on our touchline though.
Ideally, Walsh is making the signings with a new longer term manager in mind starting this summer. Thanks “Big Sam”, you were a strange albeit necessary chapter in this great Club's history, goodbye. Here's hoping.
264 Posted 27/12/2017 at 13:40:29
Firstly, they haven't got that much in attack, and secondly the defence had been neglected, so this would hopefully give me more time to work on what I do best, which is to organise a team in how to defend.
Palace, we cheated for a penalty, then the keeper gave us a gift-horse, and I think the manager was already in the building for the West Ham game, simply because it was the first time our defence had looked really organised since before Koeman, decided to go 4-4-2 to let Man City back in the game at the start of this season.
Of course we all want more in attack, no Everton manager will get away with not producing this, but less than a month ago, newly promoted Huddersfield left out six players at Arsenal because their manager had decided that he had a much better chance of going to “soft Everton” a few days later, and targeted the "easier" match...
We aren't soft no more, but we are very sloppy in possession and, until we get better or much more confident players, then this side of the game is not going to change. So it's got to be the lesser of the two evils for me because, after the Southampton game, we really were in a lot of trouble.
I know I'm going on but, just before he left, even Koeman – the man who had spent a fortune – was saying that with the squad he'd assembled, it might be better to just go long.
265 Posted 27/12/2017 at 13:43:15
266 Posted 27/12/2017 at 13:47:11
We made West Brom look like Real Madrid. We have skated on thin ice with this team, let's hope the ice doesn't crack.
267 Posted 27/12/2017 at 13:47:49
Sam is proving his worth as far as I'm concerned. Don't see any "big name" beating a path to Goodison. And why would they? We aren't an attractive club anymore. Reality check!
268 Posted 27/12/2017 at 13:55:50
I happen to think that if Unsworth had been on anything other than a match to match basis then he would have seen a response. To say somehow that Unsworth's results mean he is inferior to Allardyce is oversimplifying the matter and being disingenuous at best to a true blue.
Like the days when I woke up to find Trump in the White House or Boris Johnson in the Foreign Office finding Big Sam in the dugout at Goodison feels like some sort of surreal nightmare. I'm glad some of you guys are reconciled to it, I for one am not.
269 Posted 27/12/2017 at 14:10:33
We have a shitty squad half full of shitty players, and there's only one creative player in the whole squad Rooney. And even he has his off-days.
Football supporters are so short sighted, and I don't just mean Evertonians, I mean all supporters we're fickle and increasingly expect instant gratification on all levels, so we're more often than not, left disappointed this is the burden of lifelong football support.
Sam Allardyce himself even said in interview that he doesn't coach the players to go out and pass the ball to the opposition, yet that's what they've been doing a lot lately why? Because they're being coached not to lose games, which is different to being coached to go out and win them which takes me full circle back to the original point - Sam Allardye's brief is to not lose games.
We all have to keep this in mind for now and despite what some people claim football IS a results business first & foremost, entertainment is secondary.
We were a sinking ship 5 weeks ago, now we're 9th, not far behind Burnley (6 points) which is about where we can expect to be aside from Burnley & Leicester ahead of us I believe we'll finish 7th which will be a minor miracle given our squad, and where we were under Koeman.
It's time for a reality check, and to be thankful for where we are based on where we were.
270 Posted 27/12/2017 at 14:17:20
"Then yesterday,Rondon fails to connect from a yard out to put the ball into an empty net."
Rondon was 18 yards out and had Pickford and a defender on the line!!!
271 Posted 27/12/2017 at 14:27:16
I am no visionary or an expert on Freud but my guess is (and it is only a guess) that Sam Allardyce may just have picked up on that and having sorted the defence out now has to do the same with the rest. If he has and, I genuinely believe he has, he realises that to go forward there is one hell of a job to get his teeth into.
Is now the time to start experimenting or do all you anti Sammers think perhaps he may have decided to make sure of safety before the confidence is shot by swapping around players that are dragging us up the table bit by bit.
I think a midfield playmaker who has no problem finding his team mates with a pass and a striker may be his priorities but he has been in the game a long time and may just know a thing or two more than his detractors.
Christ ,I imagine sparks, plumbers, joiners, brickies etc only work for some of you lot once after you have stood behind them telling them how it should be done.
272 Posted 27/12/2017 at 14:28:39
273 Posted 27/12/2017 at 14:39:15
I think both Martina and Kenny are solid stoppers but very, very limited in attack (especially Martina) but in the modern game fullbacks are the new box-to-box players and must offer more than just defensive solidity.
274 Posted 27/12/2017 at 14:53:46
We do not have a "shitty squad"; Rooney is not our only creative player. The shitty squad took a point at Man City. Yesterday was defeatist shite. Whatever anyone on this thread says, West Brom are utter shite and Sam treated them like Barcelona.
Too many are denigrating our players to support Sam. Pickford, Kenny, Sigurdsson, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Gana, Lennon, and others are not "shitty", players; to refer to them as such in order to defend Sam fucking Allardyce is poor indeed. Some of them can actually control a ball and make a pass.
Sam is the man, he needs time and patience. However, when he sets up shite, I believe it should be called shite. If this is not Sam's team, then whose us it? The tea lady's?
275 Posted 27/12/2017 at 15:18:21
I know some people find it insulting to talk about a player in a negative tone but I for one have no problem admitting we have very little quality and virtually no speed.
Gareth Barry shone over Schneiderlin yesterday in one of Schneiderlin's better games. Does that about sum up the personnel we have here?
Too many views are of the emotional nature because we have witnessed effort that should come naturally anyway.
276 Posted 27/12/2017 at 15:29:44
A fit Coleman and a Baines of yesteryear would be a different kettle of fish, but as it is, I'd prefer the flat back four he adopted in his early games. With the option of swapping Lennon for Vlasic or Lookman for a little more attacking zip until reinforcements and injured players return to fitness.
278 Posted 27/12/2017 at 15:42:01
I've read many comments on this site were people wanted Dyche given the job. This ain't aimed at you, Mark, but I would like to know apart from being relegated what he has achieved that Sam ain't? And please not "his team plays great creative attacking score-for-fun football"?
279 Posted 27/12/2017 at 15:44:18
Incorrect. You're thinking of the chance in the second half when he slipped when through on Pickford. The chance he missed from one yard out was early in the first half, when he was directly in front of goal and the ball was played straight into him on the ground, Keane was behind him and unable to challenge him, and Rondon simply missed the ball. It was an open net from 1-2 yards out.
280 Posted 27/12/2017 at 15:51:16
281 Posted 27/12/2017 at 15:57:33
He didn't buy a single one of them, hence he's inherited them all. That's what I meant.
282 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:00:22
Sure all teams have some element of luck in some games and some say teams make their own luck which is not something I agree with but I think the RS had much more than their fair share of it in many season's gone by.
I know when we say that it is akin to being sour grapes but last minute goals and refereeing decisions have been their saviour many times.
I welcome the luck that is coming our way at present but the team is trying hard to recover from a brutal phase under Koeman when they were in freefall.
Was the double goal-line clearance by Jagielka against Chelsea luck or just experienced defending from a seasoned veteran? I suspect the latter.
283 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:03:41
Nobody can keep getting spawny results like he has for long playing shite football the like of which I haven't seen from Everton in nearly 60 years!
284 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:11:01
Get yer skates on Sam.
285 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:15:31
Tom Davies... headless chicken. He hasn't got a clue what he is going to do when he has the ball, his tackling is woeful and his general awareness on the pitch seems to be like a 7-year-old playing with his mate, as long as he gets a kick it don't matter where it goes. Championship player at best.
We're not allowed to critique players, especially if they're young, especially if they're Blue, especially if they're local... but Philip, you nailed it. Watching him 'play' now drives me insane. He is utterly fucking hopeless. Time for a spell back in the Under-23s with Unsworth to try and get some football back into him.
And this description of our general play also struck an equally painful note:
"Our ball control and passing is abysmal. It seems our players get a pass and do not know where their next potential pass should go. I often see a potential pass and a player making a great run but the ball goes in the opposite way."
The two Sams have done a brilliant job with defensive organization, forcing clean sheets and an amazing string of results. Absolutely brilliant. But please, can anything be done about these aspects of our play without us endangering that superb record?
286 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:21:21
Talk about not giving a manager a chance to stamp his authority on a side. What would you have Allardyce do? Go gung-ho at Anfield and at home to Chelsea and get twatted? You are becoming a serial laughing stock.
Allardyce has taken on the most unbalanced injury-ravaged paceless squad in Premier League history and you want sexy football when we were in a relegation battle. Little wonder no-one on here pays any attention to you. Allardyce has worked miracles since he came here.
287 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:28:34
So, as far as I'm concerned, that surely negates any requirement for the type of safety first hoofball we are witnessing from this point onwards?
Take the next couple of games, Bournemouth and Man Utd. Will anyone on here be happy to see a backs-to-the-wall performance with a couple of attempts on goal, even though we are now 150/1 to be relegated?
It's okay to see a team keeping things tight at the back, absolutely no problem there, but watching professional footballers brainlessly hoofing balls down the line isn't my idea of fun to be honest. The passing and movement of this crop is laughable. I wish everyone would stop pinning their hopes on a few kids coming through. One may make it, possibly two if we are still a mid-table side.
A few crosses into the box would be nice, with more than one or two attackers hoping to get on the end of it, whilst up against 6 defenders. I apologise if I'm asking too much in advance, but the threat of relegation is gone, let's have a go please.
288 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:29:32
289 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:29:57
I always look at teams above us or who we are trying to match and consider which players we have that they would want... The answer is virtually none.
290 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:40:03
Not happy with it. I take no pleasure in agreeing with Phillip but Tom really should not be getting a game at the moment.
ps: I respect your opinions but don't necessarily agree with all of them.
291 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:47:52
I think a lot of it has to do with confidence and our lack of pace at the back but when ever a player gets a ball there is very little in front of him to pass to, hence our penchant with hoofing it forward for Calvert-Lewin to chase.
We need more strength on the ball and more movement and forward running. The only time we get more than two players in the opposition box is for corners and free-kicks.
There is a lot of work to be done and players who have totally lost their form to be replaced and it cant be done overnight.
292 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:51:29
When it comes to Sam's appointment, I am so on the fence about it, that I have splinters in my arse. Having been fooled by Martinez and agreeing with the sentiment to give Koeman some time, this time, it should be until the end of the season only. If this shite is still being portrayed as football in February & March, then he needs his P45.
I remember the 82-83 season being awful, including that day of 6 November 1982, such joy. We were bad off the pitch and even worse on it. Going the game was such fun as you had plenty of room and no queue for halftime beer.
293 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:51:44
It always happens with young players. Good spell, bad spell. It was always going to bite the arse of the people who put him on a pedestal.
Give Beni a go and leave Tom out for a while. Rotate the game time for the young players.
294 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:54:42
295 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:55:55
Klaassen was given a few starts when the entire team was coming across. He is without question more talented than Davies and if it's between the two of them, he should be in that role. I still remember when Eriksen was first coming into the Spurs team, the team struggled. But he was given time and has proven to be one of their best players.
But as James wants to make us all accept, we have to go with a "don't lose" mentality instead of maybe trying to actually win the match. So I guess we have to just accept not even trying to attack the opposition no matter who they might be.
296 Posted 27/12/2017 at 16:59:54
Allardyce deserves the plaudits for digging us out of the shit but I suspect that, by season's end, we all shall have had enough of the crap he serves up. Just like they felt at all his many clubs!
Guess we will never be able to settle on anybody out of the ordinary...
297 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:14:03
We have all seen how much City have had to spend because relentless spending is the only way to reach the top on a consistent basis in football. Now I'm sure there are those who would point to Leicester City. They were a fluke, a one off never to be repeated. I'll bet if we had took Ranieri as our manager before Leicester did the howls of outrage would have been heard in Manchester.
As I've said before, most managers win nothing their entire careers they just do what they do. The pool of managers is very small and if you get one that suits your club consider yourself lucky. We currently have one that is doing Okay. I don't know how long it will last but I hope it's for a good while.
As far as I'm concerned the only good football is winning football. If we can win by attacking great. If we can win by defending that's just as good. Because, no matter how you win, it still only gets you three points.
298 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:16:48
Consistency is the number one issue with younger players. Week in week out putting in top performances is tough, not many kids achieve it.
He needs a break from first team duties; Calvert-Lewin does too. Regroup and come into the team for the last 8 games refreshed. I think, there is some quality there with Tom, but he is a year or two away from showing it.
299 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:25:14
I know what you're saying, and this isn't directed at you, but every year we're told we have to accept mediocrity or being second to someone else. While Leicester win the league we have to settle for hoping for a Cup run. Then when the Cup run fails, we're told we have to settle for fighting for Premier League placing to get into Europe, because that's more valuable to attract quality players. Then when the European campaign fails, we're told it's better because that competition is shite and we need to focus on the Premier League.
Other clubs with lesser players than us play better football than us. But we have to accept it. We used to be on equal footing with Spurs. They kept pushing forward, refused to accept 5th or 6th as the limit to their ambitions. We were told to accept where we are, we can't afford the type of players needed.
Then we got the supposed billionaire owner, after watching many clubs around us be sold before us. We were told to accept Bill Kenwright, because he's a true Evertonian. But then Moshiri comes and everything is going to change, although we need to accept Kenwright staying on as Chairman. Transfer window after transfer window comes and goes, and we've sold our best players. We sold Stones, sold Lukaku, agreed to sell Barkley. We're told we had to do that, without even putting up a fight. First bidder, sold. I ask for us to go for that huge money signing that will make people take notice, but I'm told to accept that we can't do that.
Now, I ask that the Everton manager go into a match at least trying to win. Not expecting to win, but to try. No, I can't ask for that. I must accept that Sam Allardyce will send us out to not lose, and that is all that we can ask for. To ask for anything more, to actually make the opposition have to consider that you might pose a threat to them, that's too much. We can't ask for that. Five at the back with a single striker up front at West Brom, that's what we must accept.
At what point in a relationship do you reach the limit of what you're willing to accept? Because right now, my lifelong relationship with Everaon't have to accept it. Liverpool don't accept it. United didn't accept it. Spurs didn't accept it.
The only ones I can relate to a little are Arsenal supporters, except with the massive difference in what they are told to accept versus what we have to accept. They have to accept not being able to challenge for the league now, and were told to be content with Top Four finishes, Champions League runs, and the odd domestic Cup. Year after year Wenger's failings and the owner's failure to spend the money required has seen them slowly fall out of prominence. Many of their supporters have been sick of it for years now. But a section tells them they're not being True Supporters, and to get behind the manager and the team. But for what purpose? It's the same thing so many on this site like to lecture others about. Being "True Blues" and "Real Supporters" or labelling some as "So-called Fans".
I'm sorry, but I can not accept going to West Brom and seeing that type of a performance as anything but woeful and completely unacceptable. It's one thing to get a 0-0 away to them if you were unlucky, striking the bar, having their dogged defense keep you out. It's completely different when we go there to not even try to win the match. Going into any match without the intent to try to win, that will always be unacceptable to me.
300 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:26:42
You don't adapt by not playing at all.
301 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:29:20
302 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:31:59
We are told this or that. By who? We are not being "told" anything. It's all in your mind.
303 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:37:28
304 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:39:04
The criticisms even extend to our younger players, where Lookman, Davies, et al become subject to negative comments on here when they have the inevitable bad game.
Well, we're losing our entertainers one by one, and replacing them with disciplined workers who will fit within a system that's not entertaining but hard to beat. Allardyce's system. So to those now complaining yet again, be careful what you wish for.
On the subject of entertainment, football entertainment isn't always just on the pitch. Like after the derby, that was sheer entertainment of the highest order. It actually shut up all the reds I know, because they're embarrassed. I'll be dining out on that for some time to come, because Klopp and Co will not live that down. And it was down to Allardyce.
So he's already provided me with some entertainment to complement the dour but effective tactics on the pitch.
305 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:52:52
But watching this shite is putting me off football, it's like the worst of Davy Moyes tactics circa 2003-04. “All hands to the pumps“ in defence and let's try an nick a goal.
It's fucking soul destroying. I've not missed a game home or away this season and for 30 odd seasons before that. I'm seriously considering jacking it in and taking up watching paint dry on a Weekend. Far more engaging than the shite we're being sold packaged as football. The club hierarchy should be prosecuted under the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
Allardyce is doing what he has been paid to do keep the club up, and in that respect he's succeeding but fuck me, it makes painful viewing.
306 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:52:57
I keep reading bring in Lookman, Vlasic for pace and creativity, now these lads have had chances more than one and have failed to impress enough to be given a run of games.
I also believe that most of the formations and teams that the fans who don't like Allardyce could post here have been tried and failed badly or are basically nonsense similar to the shouts like "Jack Rodwell is a centre-back".
Unbeaten since he took over with the mess left by Koeman and still fans here want Klaassen, a player who I don't remember being in either penalty box which is some feat for a so-called box-to-box midfielder and Lookman and Vlasic brought back.
307 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:58:40
Not going on and on about Kenwright but he has kept the club back, now Moshiri, is he going to be the same? I hope not. He has not been here long but there has been a lot done by him in a short space of time including the big prize of a new ground, hopefully.
You are right to question about the amount of time you put in following the Blues and getting hardly enjoyment out of your commitment, it does drag you down to the point of "What the fuck am I doing it for" and I have felt like that many times; however, four weeks ago I was in despair of us staying even in this awful state, could only see us going out of this league. Now we look like we are out of that predicament through the change in manager, I like many of us, don't know if Sam is the answer, but the panic is over, for a bit.
Let's see what transpires in the next few weeks with the transfer window, things will surely get better. The defensive football will have to be matched with an attacking desire to provide entertainment as well as points.
David, I hope your cry for improvement by many fans as well as your own and a lot of us who are wishing and hoping for this is not lost on those running the club, but again you are absolutely correct in screaming for such a change. You are most definitely not alone in demanding this.
308 Posted 27/12/2017 at 17:59:32
Yes, along with pretty much every member of the squad senior and junior Tom Davies's form has been poor this season. Even so, he has still had good games and good games.
Just last season at 18 years old - let me repeat that and spell it out - at E-I-G-H-T-E-E-N Y-E-A-R-S O-L-D, when he came into the side this time last year he remained an ever-present until the end of the season.
Not out of sentiment. Not of out necessity due to injuries to other players. But simply because game after game he was the best option wherever he was asked to play.
List the poor games he had last season. For me, there is only one that comes to mind the very final Premier League game of the season away to Arsenal when he was subbed off before half time.
Other than that, he maintained remarkable levels of consistency, commitment and performances, with no little skill.
He deservedly won the Club's Young Player of the Year award and certainly, on second half of the season performances, Tom was one of our players of the season, young or old.
He is even now still only 19-years-old. NINETEEN!!!
Of course he is going to have highs and lows in his form and individual match day performances. It is even tougher for a young player playing in a side performing as poorly as Everton has for the most part of the season.
As for calls presuming David Klaassen is a better footballer than Tom Davies, you cannot make that claim judged solely on the two players' performances in the Blue of Everton.
To be clear, I am not dismissing Klaassen as readily as others on TW. I remain hopeful he can step up and adjust to playing in the Premier League.
But I recall reporting on the single game I attended live at Goodison Park this season the 3-0 League Cup victory vs Sunderland that on the evidence of that one game, Tom Davies merited a start ahead of Klaassen and that Tom was the main creative and driving force in midfield for Everton that night.
Yes, Tom could do with a spell of not being selected for the starting XI and possibly even the bench, as I suggested a few weeks ago, to allow him to get his 'Mojo' back.
But I for one am not having or buying into the outright condemnation of the lad that some are suddenly expressing on this thread.
309 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:00:10
310 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:01:32
All the best, Big Yin.
311 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:11:53
Bolasie will do a decent job when he has a few more games under his belt but he is not a true target man. Calvert-Lewin and Niasse are triers but not quality Premier League starters.
Until these problems are dealt with, then, as an attacking team, we will be mostly non-existent.
312 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:29:44
We got rid of Duncan McKenzie for having the same sort of attitude as Deulofeu, deeming his 14 goals in 48 appearances, and zilch otherwise, to be insufficient. Compare that to Deulofeu's 5 goals in 62 appearances for us. Woeful.
Barkley suffers severely when compared with Dele Alli, by no means the total midfielder himself but who's scored 32 in 89 Spurs games against Barkley's 21 in 150 for us, and Dele Alli is far more effective in winning the ball back.
Talent does not excuse lack of effort in the "workhorse" department. Ask anyone who saw the teams that won the league for us. Shirkers, such as Deulofeu and Barkley, were conspicuous by their absence.
313 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:33:52
I agree that this season he hasn't shaped up as well as he might have done. I suspect that he has one fatal flaw that he might struggle to overcome and that is he is quite slow off the mark, which means that when he does sidestep a man or get ahead of a player, he allows his opponent to catch up with him.
There's a decent player in there and I do think that he reads the game well but perhaps he's not the absolute gem we thought we'd unearthed. He routinely seems to be anonymous in away games. Having no real pace is a common theme with so many of our squad. He's not alone.
314 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:42:36
While having a pop at them did you look at who created most goals and chances during their time on the pitch.
I am sure you will find it was either Barkley or Deulofeu.
315 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:43:45
Is was Gordon Lee who got rid of Duncan McKenzie. The former was shite, while the latter was tremendous.
316 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:48:02
I decided enough was enough when I retired to Cyprus three years ago. Lounge tickets were surrendered, magazine subscriptions cancelled and donations to EitC terminated. The Club chased me for a while but soon wrote me off probably thinking I was deceased! Now I don't even go to games during my annual trip home.
I guess I'm still an Evertonian at least as much a one as most who use this medium to vent their spleen - but my interest is now purely academic. And, when I see via TV what the followers have to pretend to find acceptable, I begin to believe that Aphrodite's Isle is no longer far enough away!
317 Posted 27/12/2017 at 18:58:20
'Davies is crap'
318 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:03:59
And it's even within a single game that you can hear those negative comments when one of them, say, runs into a cul-de-sac.
319 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:04:08
Signing off now.
320 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:06:33
I have seen young players crumble many times over the years from criticism like this and it really is inadvisable. Do it to the experienced guys if you must but Tom and the other youngsters need encouragement and support as they are trying their best whilst being given little support from players who should step up and help them.
If you are old enough, you may recall a certain Colin Harvey getting terrible stick around 1965 and 1966 before becoming one of the best players I have seen.
Adrian Heath and Graeme Sharp were targets before they blossomed and even Joe Royle took dog's abuse from the bully-boys who called themselves supporters of the club.
Tom has had an iffy season so far but is a very promising player not crap.
321 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:11:51
The kid has had only one truly wow-ish performance (v Man City last season), yet it seems his entire career thus far and reputation have been built on that inch-deep foundation combined with his Toffeehood.
Ever since, it's been mediocrity and, as time has progressed, less than that; he's a liability and should not, must not be started without some hardcore remedial coaching work off-piste to remove that headless chicken act.
Moving on, maybe once the fixture congestion eases, Sam will be able to take a more adventurous / less pragmatic approach to team selection and we'll see if Klaassen gets a second chance. I'm not optimistic about either the chance or his prospects of taking it, but I am settled on the view that Davies is not first team material for the remainder of this season.
322 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:12:44
Then when Everton did have money, Koeman comes along and squanders a talented squad Martinez left behind and more. It does appear, as an Evertonian, you just can't win.
323 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:16:46
Aren't we fortunate that there are clubs out there prepared to take them off our hands even if it is at bargain prices?
I wonder who will the next 'man we love to hate'? My bet is it will be between Coleman and Baines as soon as they return!
324 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:20:30
325 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:21:17
He is a 19-year-old kid that had a good first season and also had some decent games at right back too. He hasn't been up to his 1st season standard, granted, but the whole team, including senior pros have been under-performing.
Under Koeman we never had a balanced and consistent midfield for Davies to operate in. He's a teenager learning his trade and considering the circumstances, has done well.
The idea that he gets a free pass because he is one of us doesn't wash with me look at the treatment of Barkley. I believe that being born in the area is the proverbial double-edged sword.
Also, he has operated in a team full of young lads, the West Brom game had Davies, Kenny, Calvert-Lewin, Holgate and Baningime involved. All teens or just out of their teens. That is a lot of youth in 1 team, meaning less senior pros to take the burden off them, especially in a midfield shorn of Rooney and Gueye! This means less direction and advice!
326 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:23:55
2 John. Kenny was getting it on another thread!
327 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:24:58
328 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:29:10
No mate I was just exaggerating the point my way rather that to suit Brian.
See what I did there Not 1 yard, empty net; not 18 yards 2 players on line okay..
329 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:32:36
What we have witnessed in the past two games and at Anfield is anti-football. A coward's excuse for competing, a deliberate intention to spoil the game through lack of belief in one's own ability... Hes done it for years.
When I look at the number of teams who have brushed West Brom aside or how West Ham, Palace and Burnley all went toe-to-toe with Chelsea and beat them, I feel ashamed... properly ashamed.
We will be the same again against an Eddie Howe team that cost a fraction of ours... don't be surprised if they turn us over.
This is not football as I know it.
330 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:38:29
These young guys have been put into the limelight due to the gross incompetence of people managing our Club. These kids, whether good or bad, go out every game and try and give 100% usually to the shame of the so-called older more established players.
These kids are played week after week because we do not have anyone better in our squad.
Tom Davies appears to be the latest target of our so-called experts and, rather than appreciate what this kid is trying to do, we have a load of arseholes who can do nothing but criticise the lad. Bloody shame on you.
Well let me say as another arsehole that, maybe fortunately where I go, the people around me have the decency to accept these lads have been thrown in the deep end and are trying their best; consequently, they don't get the slagging during the game they seem to get on this forum.
Everyone has the right to their opinion but, before they open their mouths, think about the realistic alternatives we have at present to the youngsters.
331 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:39:16
Yes, he is a limited player – but he has lightning quick reactions in his passing and his finishing off ability. The potential is clearly there but his opponents know his strengths and weaknesses too. This is evident by how they take Niasse out of the game.
This was not the case when he was playing for Hull against Liverpool and Man Utd, where he scored some good goals. Sam has to deal with this problem.
332 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:41:26
333 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:53:43
334 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:55:07
What on earth do they think they will achieve? Maybe they're so shallow, it makes them feel a little bit better about themselves. No player needs reminding to that degree when their having a 'mare'.
No wonder that Barkley want's out.
335 Posted 27/12/2017 at 19:56:58
Have another read at your post, Jay and maybe you will get an idea of just how ludicrous it is. Maybe your beloved Sam differs with you on this. Now how could that be?
336 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:09:57
Regarding the 'potency' of Bournemouth's attack, this season Wilson has 4 goals, Defoe 3 and King 2. What is to fear about those numbers, given our recent defensive record?
Add to the mix Defoe is out for 10 weeks and there is even less to worry about.
As to the reference to goal posts which you and others make about the Newcastle and Chelsea games (implying Everton just 'got lucky'), you do understand such efforts do not count as goals. Indeed, they are not even counted as 'shots on target.'
Probably not, I'm guessing.
337 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:14:11
I don' t know how I missed that beaut. Anyway, Tony, how about providing a link to where Evertonians, in fact fucking anyone, one single person, has suggested that if you are an Everton player and (God forbid) an Everton supporter, you are immune from criticism?
It seems to me that the opposite might be true. Davies may not become "top notch"; perhaps it takes a more discerning judge, like you, to decide this early in his career.
338 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:14:28
Tom Davies is struggling and needs to be taken out of the firing line for a bit, but I suppose it comes with the territory, when it comes to playing football, with the words 'shit' or 'shite' never too far away from many tongues!
339 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:22:40
If you've ever played, Jay, you should know every player, even the great ones, have an 'off time'. Tom is a very good footballer and has played in so many different positions with a variety of different plans and yet has still been a a massive influence in several games.
It 's very clear that he has huge potential and will be a key player in our fortunes going forward. He's a young guy and has simply been the victim of recent conflicting managerial systems. He's in my first eleven every time.
340 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:27:52
Why don't you give up on ToffeeWeb then?
As you don't go to games or watch them any more, What's the point?
341 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:28:25
When good young players, especially English ones come along the moneybags clubs are on them like a rash. Yet I don't see clubs lining up at our door waving huge cheques under our nose.
Somebody mentioned Colin Harvey being a late bloomer. Well, here's a couple of names: John Ebrell and Tony Grant. Remember when they were going to be the next big thing? How many seasons did we wait before finally realising they were bog standard? What about the recently retired Osman? How much slagging off did he get? But at least he scored relatively often.
Davies is a bog-standard player at best. I'm sure in the next transfer window or two Sam will replace him and he will be relegated to the bench or back to the U23s until he improves or gets moved on.
343 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:41:51
That is a bewildering facile argument.
Kinda sits well with your original post on Tom Davies @ 301.
How easily forgotten by some how consistently well he played - at 18! - last season.
Still, enough supporters thought enough of Tom to vote him Young Player of the Season as well as award him goal of the season and performance of the season.
Obviously all lacking your precognition and prescience, Frank.
344 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:42:39
His energy is what he is being played for and as another poster pointed out it helped to change the game last week versus Swansea when the much more experienced French, costly, International was having another poor game and the former world class Rooney had done little right in the game until Tom came on.
Yes, he needs a rest; he has been giving much more experienced players a lift instead of the other way round. He will come back refreshed and a better player in a team that is playing more progressive and attacking football than it is at the moment.
345 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:44:24
346 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:45:51
347 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:46:31
Well, the world has changed, and we probably won't easily compete with all the money's worth of players amassed by the top teams within the last decade. We're playing serious catch-up there!
I say we have an equally good opportunity here! No one except those locked into their own reality really expects anything except survival and a top-half finish this year (we all hope, though!). I think we have that in hand already. I don't think our youngsters will make us win the Premier League next year, but we have this opportunity to make them mature into proper players to either keep out, or compete with anyone we bring in in January or during the summer. It's all about self-confidence for the young ones!
With all our injuries, we have this surprise season to blood our young ones properly, no matter if we buy any much-needed pros in key areas. Who would know about Kenny if Coleman was fit all season?
We so easily forget that there is so seemingly little British talent lately, mostly because they were never given the time to learn under fire at the top level, after the money & results made clubs buy the already-proven foreign mercenaries for instant impact!
348 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:48:59
Roberto Martinez played two defensive midfielders for four seasons. The same two. They were instructed never to get ahead of the ball. They actually had a side!!! Right and left defensive midfielders. Their attacking contributions extremely poor.
David Moyes at one point had Fellaini, Cahill, Rodwell, Arteta, Pienaar, a number of wingers but a 30-odd-year-old Neville still got games and was captain!
Royle had his FA Cup winning dogs of war. My favourite Everton team. Which was entertaining to me as Pep's Barca for many different reasons.
I just want to follow Steve Ferns logic through now though.
He wanted Silva. But he said he and Unsworth have no time to teach the players anything because the games were too close together and there was not enough sessions.
Allardyce, under the same constraints and more injuries. Has managed not only get his methods accepted by the players, but implement them to great effect.
He also started below Silva in the league. Silva has his own signings and a whole summer to get his message across in numerous sessions. But Sam is looking down on Silva now. Therefore, I can only assume he is a better coach. In fact I'm sure Mr Ferns would agree he is a miracle man to change our tactics and make them work in so few sessions.
As for style of play, I do not hear anyone on here saying they have been scouring the Internet in order to watch the entertaining Watford games.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Guardiola could have got Martina bombing past Sigurdsson and Kenny flying down the right. I can just see Calvert-Lewin in the false 9, playing it round the corner to a marauding Gana.
Then again re-watch Sigurdsson's last goal, and look who does bomb past him allowing him to cut inside and shoot. Although, I bet some on here think Allardyce was telling him get back. Which he wasn't. And they can't remember Moyes laughing when being interviewed after a game "I was screaming at him to get back, when he scored". Or putting on countless defenders trying to defend a goal lead and it back firing.
I suppose Allardyce will never shake his label. And Paul Scholes couldn't tackle either.
If he got the Barca job I bet he would tell pique to bang it long to Messi.
349 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:52:37
It's not a case of whether Tom Davies will be a candidate to win the Young Player of the Year award again this year, or the goal of the season. (And on that front, I rather think Calvert-Lewin is ahead of Kenny or any other young player for the first award)
You made exceedingly strong assertions against Tom Davies which many a poster has countered.
You don't like him. Got it. Others do.
You demonstrate a total absence of tolerance and patience with the lad. Got it. Others do.
Do you get that?
350 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:58:40
The worrying thing is, he's already hinted that there'll be no money in January, so the best we can expect is that he is given all the money from sales. I'd like to see him backed by the board who hired him because I think he's capable of much more.
My fear is he doesn't get backed and we just end up with a fixed defence and bore the arse of everybody.
351 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:59:39
It's too early to write Tom off.
352 Posted 27/12/2017 at 20:59:53
He needs to be taken out of the limelight & pressure taken off when we sign another midfielder. Then his upward journey may well continue. Have faith.
353 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:05:39
I was actually screaming in frustration at times last match, as he gave away the ball much too often! His passing was often sloppy, as if it was just a matter of waving his foot onto the ball, expecting it to go where he hoped for it to go...
Now, if he can take that extra half-a-second to aim his passes, with the proper force needed, I'll be over the moon!
354 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:07:41
355 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:16:27
Yes, that is what he does now! I don't really complain, when it works... Which it doesn't do every game... Think what his drive and energy can be turned into when he starts to consciously direct it?
So I'll want him to keep playing whenever possible! I just hope he can learn to temper that enthusiasm and energy into a consciously directed process of how to outplay any opposition! :)
And 'temper' does not mean 'dampen'! I just hope he can focus his often wayward energy!
356 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:22:14
357 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:32:59
Or it may just be that there seems quite a point in not letting in too many goals in a game you already expect to lose, with the actual points being so close at the half-way season? Goal difference may be worth millions at the end of the season, after all! And Rafa isn't a footballing fool, after all! Early positioning, maybe?
358 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:35:10
The RS will be stating their gonna win the Premier League after buying Virgil van Dijk, but I'm not yet convinced this will be the move the RS hordes claim it will be.
Each to their own view, but let's cut some slack and luck is made and hope is found, for the 2nd half of this epic season.
Bournemouth next, hopefully a win and then we turn over Man Utd.
Happy 2018 for all Evertonians, it can only get better!
359 Posted 27/12/2017 at 21:36:50
360 Posted 27/12/2017 at 22:28:16
I am certain we will have a great midfielder in the future in Tom Davies. The lad needs those increasingly rare commodities in premier league football, time and patience.
361 Posted 27/12/2017 at 22:52:24
I was especially gobsmacked in the Ball and (70s) Kendall episodes. I was young, and queried my dad as to why Evertonians were giving them stick. He said, there's no pleasing some people, and that some are just narks, including some Evertonians.
362 Posted 27/12/2017 at 23:04:15
Every player and every team suffers dips in form. We are recovering from 2 managers who tried to impose their philosophies on the team. As a result, the players all of them obviously lost some confidence and their game has suffered.
Things are far from perfect. Players are finding their feet again. Anybody who has ever played knows that is almost impossible to play well unless you know where your team mates are going to be. A solid structure is in the process of being built. It will take time for fluidity.
This is a supporters site yet it often reads like a post match BBC comments thread with comments from fans of other teams. The negativity on here is unbelievable.
The quality of some of our youth players, the new stadium, an owner with money all things that offer more hope than at many times in the 45 years I have been watching Everton. Constructive criticism is good; much of this shite is inane drivel.
363 Posted 27/12/2017 at 23:17:31
364 Posted 27/12/2017 at 23:21:46
365 Posted 27/12/2017 at 23:36:39
If that Dick van Dyke, is worth £75 mill, our Ashley must be in the region of £30mill minimum!
366 Posted 27/12/2017 at 00:09:37
367 Posted 28/12/2017 at 00:16:28
368 Posted 28/12/2017 at 06:05:22
Schneidrlin played against Southampton we were Mullered
Tom was back for West Ham we did the mullering.
He played in the win against Huddersfield.
He was rested against Swansea when we threaten to put 40,000 into a coma... until he came on and transformed the game.
Tom's got miles to go and the wins cant be put solely down to him, but he is a tremendous prospect who provides a much needed energy... we look like the walking dead without him.
369 Posted 28/12/2017 at 09:33:52
Obviously, criticism is warranted where it's due, but fans giving players stick for mistakes that, quite frankly, they are not making deliberately, is to me totally verboten. I thought that when I was a teenager back then, and still think it now. When I hear it at a game, I just think, what a twat.
370 Posted 28/12/2017 at 09:38:57
We now have a manager who appears to be addressing some of the basic problems and it is only a few weeks into his reign.
Great post earlier about 2004-05 when we finished 4th with Sams Bolton only 3 points behind. They also scored 4 more goals than we did and conceded 2 less but that is all history. Let's see who we get in, how the team improves etc.
However on the matter of what we should accept, I want to accept nothing less than ambition to be a winning team that wins trophies. That ambition has to start at the top of the club.
371 Posted 28/12/2017 at 10:15:31
372 Posted 28/12/2017 at 10:21:04
I too remember it taking a while for Howard Kendall to settle in when we signed him. That is what surprises me about the expectation on this season's imports who started off playing for a manager who was stealing a living, not in a virtually settled team as Kendall came into.
The constant chopping and changing of Koeman's team and the amount of new faces coupled with Koeman's alleged attitude towards them gave us the team we grew to denigrate at every opportunity and it is taking a lot to turn around both the team and the tactics. The difference in a lot of the players in the last month is testament to the mismanagement of clueless Koeman.
Yes, I know the football may not be great YET but how that defence was turned around in such a short time from shipping goals like there was no tomorrow to being as tight as a duck's ring piece is astounding.
373 Posted 28/12/2017 at 10:34:43
In the 8 games before Sam took over we conceded 28 goals.
In the 8 games he has been in charge we have conceded 2.
Astounding as you say.
Tony, he burnt Dortmund out with his style of play. Fingers crossed.
374 Posted 28/12/2017 at 13:03:59
Same with our own style also, I'm not convinced what Allardyce has done is astounding because part of the problem, was just a basic neglect, but it doesn't mean I'm not impressed by it though.
The real proof, will be if he can keep us tight, when we move onto the next phase, but he's just signed a forward, that he has had his eye on for quite a while I believe?
Now I'm just hoping we can sign a fetch, carry midfielder, but there doesn't seem to be many about, or maybe the game has just changed?
375 Posted 28/12/2017 at 13:15:19
I am reading a lot of criticism of Davies, Kenny and Calvert-Lewin. What a load of nonsense that is ! While I agree that they are going to have bad moments, if people want to criticise then start with seasoned pros like Schneiderlin , Williams and even Gana who for all of his ball winning cannot seem to pass the ball more than 2 yards. These youngsters have got great ability and fight which we need and I am sure they will blossom in a settled team with better players around them.
On the subject of Big Sam, well here came here to keep us up and as galling as the football is he is getting points on the board. If the footy does not improve then he will be released with credit for keeping us up and a few more million in his pocket. He will get little credit from me if the footy stays the same, that's for sure. If he somehow manages to to get some nice football going then we can all win.
It's tough being a blue with so many disappointments but I still watch and hope that one day we can put our name on a trophy and hear outsiders talking about Everton being a nice team to watch.
376 Posted 28/12/2017 at 14:49:42
To me Davies has been over used and sometimes far too much is expected of him. Same with Calvert-Lewin. Just plain insulting any player, young or old, is very unlikely to do anything other than abate personal frustrations. The latter has been a common feeling for all Blues.
377 Posted 28/12/2017 at 15:41:05
378 Posted 28/12/2017 at 15:50:13
379 Posted 28/12/2017 at 16:06:50
I note with Holgate's form and Keane's MotM last week, the question of a new centre-back has gone away a bit. This can help focus resource on a left-back, dynamic central midfielders... and striker power.
380 Posted 28/12/2017 at 19:20:20
At least after three or four weeks Allardyce in expressing his disappointment at how poor we are at finding another player in a blue shirt, I hope this filters down to the players, it's doing my head in watching it week after week after week.
381 Posted 28/12/2017 at 20:11:34
Regarding players making mistakes, we agree they're not doing it deliberately. They'd much rather play well. For example, Alan Ball was the supreme example of a player giving his all for both Everton and England in every game; hence his burnout in Mexico (heat and altitude). But even he was barracked at Goodison.
Now, we all want the players to play well, as do they. We're more likely to help by encouragement, or even silence if they're not playing well. Barracking has the opposite effect of what we want. An action that has the opposite effect of we want is called 'irrational'. Thus, when I think someone who does it is being a twat, they're not just a twat, they're a completely daft twat.
383 Posted 28/12/2017 at 21:06:16
Tom isn't the finished article and can be a bit raw, but he is an admirable shining light in this (so far) wreck of a season.
That said, I hope we get Nzonzi, who would be the ideal player for Tom to watch and learn from.
384 Posted 28/12/2017 at 21:13:53
385 Posted 28/12/2017 at 21:48:13
386 Posted 28/12/2017 at 21:59:49
387 Posted 28/12/2017 at 22:05:49
388 Posted 28/12/2017 at 22:15:34
389 Posted 30/12/2017 at 09:47:11
When we moan and don't support, the opposition win. The opposition call it 'quietening the crowd' and they get motivated and more confident.
This is a double whammy of negative comments hurting the home crowd's energy and helping the opposition enjoy a signal of success.
They call on one hand "the home crowd getting on the back of their team" or they call it "The home crowd getting behind their team"
They want to quieten the home crowd at Goodison we should not be unconsciously helping the opposition by getting on the backs of our players.
When we pick on one in particular then that can be devastating for the player, the team and the atmosphere in the ground. Daft twats should stop! Yes, in the pub afterwards, but not in the ground.
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