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Everton abandon Silva chase

| Wednesday, 22 November 2017  71 Comments  [Jump to last]
Everton have called off their pursuit of Marco Silva as replacement for Ronald Koeman, according to a report.

The Board had made the Portuguese their top target and were willing to pay £10m in compensation to Watford to release their manager just 12 games into his two-year contract but the Hertfordshire club refused to allow Silva to discuss the vacancy with the Blues.

The Independent claim that Everton will not press the matter further unless Silva resigns as Watford boss.

Reader Comments (71)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Brian Ronson
1 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:26:50
What a bunch of clowns!
Marcus Reynolds
2 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:28:33
The Independent claim that Everton will not press the matter further unless Silva resigns as Watford boss. The ball is in Silva's court now. Let's hope he sees the bigger picture and sees Everton as the right move to progress his career.
Tim Smith
3 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:34:20
This is highly predictable in view of the fact it didn't happen quickly. Clearly Mr Moshiri wants a ‘glamour' appointment and this continuing faffing around has made us a laughing stock. Our priority must be stopping conceding goals so I'd go for a good organiser now – Dyche.
Graham Coldron
4 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:35:14
Is this a ruse to encourage Silva to resign and then, when the dust settles, appoint him as manager?
Jackie Barry
5 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:35:32
About bloody time, now hire somebody and stop making us the bloody laughing stock of the league. I don't give a crap about tomorrow, we need a manager now.
Tommy Carter
6 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:38:15
This whole situation has been handled badly, I can only assume that the damage done by Koeman within the squad was completely irreparable otherwise it makes no sense to have sacked him without a clear idea of who we would be bringing in to replace him.

I'm worried. I like Unsworth but he has shown signs already that this may be too much for him too soon. The starting line up vs Palace away was a very naive set of choices.

We face West Ham in the last game of the season, I just hope that we don't go into that fixture with the winner staying up and the loser going down

Chad Schofield
7 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:38:26
Let's hope it's the end of that. Needs to prove himself properly in this league for that kind of money, and just too many doubts.
Jackie Barry
8 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:40:35
If he resigns then fair enough, it shows he really wants the job.
Peter Mills
9 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:41:21
It seems like someone is learning from the Sigurdsson fiasco. Steady now you multi-millionaire wheeler dealers, one step at a time.
Steve Ferns
10 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:42:38
It'll still be complicated if he resigns, and it'll still be silly money in compensation or we could end up in CAS and prevented from employing him in the meantime. Now that really would be the nightmare scenario. Why on earth didn't he get a release clause?
Neil Copeland
11 Posted 22/11/2017 at 20:52:23
Steve, very messy to say the least. We may have to look elsewhere or at least wait a while longer. I still wish the club would actually release some sort of statement to clarify where we are at.
Gavin Johnson
12 Posted 22/11/2017 at 21:03:06
Now he can't get the manager he wants. Moshiri needs to appoint the manger we need. Step forward Sean Dyche.
Colin Glassar
13 Posted 22/11/2017 at 21:09:21
Ralf Ragnick (RB Leipzig) is being mentioned now. Rolf Harris more likely. This is embarrassing. Give Unsy the job and start praying.
Fran Mitchell
14 Posted 22/11/2017 at 21:10:05
We are in a serious mess, and until a decision os made this can only cause further problems to ouro squad.

Be it a long-term solition, or a stop-gap, we need some sort of movement soon or we are in deep shit.

James Power
15 Posted 22/11/2017 at 21:13:03
Oh god really? I think we just let them figure it out themselves. Forget a manager, let the fans pick the team as part of a poll each week. No favourites, no personality clashes, just dispassionate selection.

We can even select from a range of tactical approaches on a secure site.

Dyche, really? Moyes with laryngitis

Dennis Stevens
16 Posted 22/11/2017 at 21:57:20
James Power (#13) – Great idea! There's so much expertise on this forum alone, how could it not be a success?
Christy Ring
17 Posted 22/11/2017 at 21:57:43
What are the chances of Silva resigning tomorrow?
Brian Williams
18 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:06:44
For people who keep pressing the "we're a laughing stock" point. What do you want the board to do exactly? Give up straight away and hire somebody, anybody?

I'd rather they took their time if they can't get their number one choice than panic and appoint the wrong person.

Would you rather they did what West Ham did and appoint someone quickly.......... the likes of Moyes for fuck's sake?

Paul Kelly
19 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:16:22
Brian, nice point and I think there is still a few who'd welcome HIM back; one happens to be Chairman, me thinks!
Joe O'Brien
20 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:19:34
Brian @16 totally agree with everything you said... we're supposed to have been turned down by this name and that... all tabloid gossip.

Disappointed that it looks like we won't get Silva... and they way I see it, he was the only manager we approached. Big Sam... Pulis, the ginger whinger... no thanks.

Tony Twist
21 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:24:55
Nevermind, his premier league teams have never been strong defensively so how would he get ours righted and watertight? It's impossible to know who the club have approached. Tuchel, Blanc? They both have good records.

I just have no faith that the people making the choice have any expertise in choosing an appropriate replacement managers.

Ian Riley
22 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:28:09
Let's be honest. If you were the Watford owner, would you let Silva go? Watford sit comfortably in the top ten and play good attacking football. Go in with £20 million take it or leave it. If no, move on.
Steve Ferns
23 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:33:38
Tony, Tommy Tuchel will not consider us until the summer, not whilst he has a chance at Bayern.

Laurent Blanc is an interesting one. I thought he got sacked for being crap. Yet he only lost 15 out of 172 games at PSG. He's got 4 league titles (1 at Bordeaux and 3 at PSG). Internationally, losing in the QF to Spain is no disgrace, but it cost him his job.

I'd say he was a little of out our league, but he's been out of a job 18 months, maybe he might be interested. I do recall he was terribly defensive though. No doubt someone will call him the French Moyes!

Interesting shout, regardless, Tony.

Done some more digging. He was brilliant at PSG in Ligue 1, but was sacked for his failure to get past the QF of the CL for three consecutive years.

Steve Ferns
24 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:41:02
Ian, do you know who the Watford owner is? And if so, do you understand what they do?

Watford is basically a shop. Everything is for sale. They buy players cheap and sell them on for a profit, and the owners pocket it all.

The owners are the Pozzo family. Italians who own a portfolio of clubs and have a massive scouting network that all of the clubs tap into. The have a club in Italy (Udinese), Spain (Girona), and another I forget where.

Sure they want to have some success. But their ownership is about player development to make a profit. So, it is a big surprise they don't want to sell their manager. Or maybe the Pozzo's are driving a hard bargain and now they will come back to Everton with a proper figure.

Tony Twist
25 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:42:06
Steve, yes I was very surprised by his win rates at the few teams he managed and, having played for Man Utd, I presume he was happy living up north.
Ray Robinson
26 Posted 22/11/2017 at 22:47:49
Brian (#16), I have said exactly the same on another thread. The Board sacked Koeman when they did because we the fans were demanding it.

Now the fans are blaming the Board for failing to appoint a suitable replacement. Bad timing indeed but hardly the Board's fault if there's a paucity of decent candidates.

We're not an embarrassment for wanting to get it right. Just watch what WBA do and see if speed of action leads to a good appointment.

Ian Riley
27 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:12:58
Steve (#22). I don't know the Watford owner, but with Silva they know maintaining Premier League status and even European football is a possibility. That will bring more money.

If they let him go for whatever fee then business as usual. Let's try them with an offer of £20 million pounds. How serious are we? On player development and selling them. It's not far off our model.

Steve Ferns
28 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:18:32
Ian, you should read about the Pozzo scouting network. It is unbelievable. The number of players they own and move about their clubs and loan to other clubs is staggering.

They do want some level of success and won't bleed Watford dry. In fact, Watford will be a very healthy club when they sell up. But it is foolish to think that they will cling on to their best assets, as that goes against their modus operandi.

Soren Moyer
29 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:27:41
Portuguese managers never resign lol. They get fired. Let's get Leonardo Jardim then!
David Israel
30 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:35:07
Well, Soren, Silva did walk out on Hull, although it's true he had a clause allowing him to do so.
David Israel
31 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:41:28
Jardim would be a great choice, in my view, but I can't see him leaving Monaco, or being sacked, for that matter, even though they're bottom of their Champions League group (a very tight one, on reputations, it's true).
Charlie Lloyd
32 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:46:30
Steve @ multiple comments on every bit of news.

Ever heard the saying “A bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing”.

Keep the beautiful game simple!

Soren Moyer
33 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:48:48
At least we could try to get him. He has a great scouting team too.
David Pearl
34 Posted 22/11/2017 at 23:56:04
Enough of this wasting time shit. WTF!!!

Keep Unsworth in the job till the end of the season. No club will part with a manager right now. It's not the right time. Why would they? We can get on with getting our season back on track by sticking. I'm not a huge fan of some of the things Unsworth has tried but not Pep or Jose, or Jesus could do much better with the mess he has inherited.

Walsh needs to sort this out. Get rid of the crap and find better players, not worse.! This January Walsh needs to earn his salary. Not go out looking at players for the Under-23s. Who was in charge or shaping the team?? It's a complete joke. And I don't blame Kenwright. I blame Walsh.

Stephen Davies
35 Posted 23/11/2017 at 00:32:30
Steve (#22)
Arent Girona part of the Man City franchise?
David Israel
36 Posted 23/11/2017 at 00:50:30
You're quite right, Stephen. Girona's main shareholders – both below 50%, I believe – are the Manchester City holding company and a company chaired by a brother of Pep Guardiola.

The Spanish club the Pozzos owned was Granada, but I think they have recently sold it.

John Pierce
37 Posted 23/11/2017 at 00:59:41
Everton are repeating tge same errors they made with Sigurdsson.

Either pay the money or walk away. We either want him orcwe do not. Everyday we prevaricate, our hand weakens.

Be decisive not dithering. You control the situation and can move forward. Atm we are in limbo.

Appoint Unsworth and make clear overtures to the number 1 target for the summer.

Gordon Crawford
38 Posted 23/11/2017 at 01:18:51
This search for a manager is just embarrassing. We are sinking as a club faster than the Titanic. Our reputation is almost rock bottom. Where and when will it end?
Jay Woods
39 Posted 23/11/2017 at 01:36:50
Appoint Unsworth and wait until the summer... Why? So that we can get someone to win promotion back to the top flight
Jack Convery
40 Posted 23/11/2017 at 06:42:27
So that's more Silva we've missed out on – typical EFC.
Sam Hoare
41 Posted 23/11/2017 at 07:14:14
Being judicious and ambitious in appointing our next manager does not make us a laughing stock!!! Would the people saying that prefer we appoints Tony Pulis today. Maybe give Steve Holloway a call or have a proper go at Big Sam...

We have a solid enough caretaker in Unsworth who at least has the players showing some fight.

I was excited by Silva but looks unlikely now. Blanc is an interesting call, Tuchel would be great and I could just about get on board with Dyche. Rangnick, Mancini, Pellegrini and Fonseca might all bring something useful to the table.

I would prefer the board make a good decision rather than a quick one.

James Hughes
42 Posted 23/11/2017 at 07:31:43
The fact we are not just making a panic appointment does not make us a shambles or a laughing stock.

The naysayers who continually bang on about Rhino not being up to the task are tedious. Like an argument as a child when you continually just say 'can't' a thousand times and your mate says 'can'.

We've got rid of Martinez and Koeman in less than two seasons; the next appointment needs to be right and needs time or we will emulate Aston Villa.

Peter Larkin
43 Posted 23/11/2017 at 07:37:43
Calm down, guys, I believe Everton's board are playing this very clever. They know Silva wants Everton. He is the Number 1 choice. By stating in the media "resign or we move on" is very clever.

Me personally, I think Silva will resign. We will pay big money for him; let's hope he lives up to the hype.

Tony Everan
44 Posted 23/11/2017 at 08:03:29
Whilst we are picking up a few points 4 out of the last 6 , we are buying ourselves time.

If David Unsworth can get us another 4/6 against Southampton d and West Ham w , next week , I think he should be given it until the end of the season.

I think this would prove he can guide us to safety. Especially and essentially with the quality reinforcements early January.

Options (including David) can then be assessed in a less rushed way and a better long term decision made.

Poor results in the next 2 games and we will,look like a rubber dinghy in an Arctic Storm.

They will need to get someone in to steady the ship or we will be sunk.

Kim Vivian
45 Posted 23/11/2017 at 08:45:31
Okay then – so what thoughts re Ralph Rangnick now being rumoured? (Daily Express via BBC)

Steve? You seem to know these guys inside out.

Chad Schofield
46 Posted 23/11/2017 at 08:51:19
£20M just to get him here, then ~£5M per year on a 3-4 year contract... Wow, some people are mental. If you want the club to look like a laughing stock, that's the way to do it, because at those sort of figures regardless of the success he might bring, that would always be the the headline...

And on the balance of probability it won't work out beyond 5 years tops - so in effect we'd be paying £9M+ a year for him!

Ciaran O'Brien
47 Posted 23/11/2017 at 09:05:19
Have anyone else heard a rumor that Simeone’s representatives approached us about the job?
Henrik Lyngsie
48 Posted 23/11/2017 at 09:10:30
Ciarán (#47). Have not heard the rumour. But my own conclusion has been for a while that the only logic I can see it that we are waiting for Atletico to drop out of the Champions League and the Simeone is our man.

If that is not the master plan then the conclusion is that we are in a big mess. Sacking Koeman and not having a plan would lead be very weird.

Ciaran O'Brien
49 Posted 23/11/2017 at 09:30:38
It is a total mess by the board. Koeman needed to go but we shouldn’t take this long to replace him unless it is true about Simeone, still this season and in fact the last 18 months have been a shambles.

We cannot lose to Southampton this weekend with the derby coming up.
It sucks about Niasse but Sandro might finally get a chance and show why he is so highly rated.

Brian Harrison
50 Posted 23/11/2017 at 09:49:46
I posted a couple of days ago that for us to get Silva he would have to resign. After his comments at the weekend when asked numerous times would he commit to Watford and didn't, I thought by Monday if he was going to resign that was the day he would do it.

He obviously would like to talk to us but I think he doesnt want to walk out so soon after joining Watford. Time and candidates are now running out, and how many would take it knowing they were 3rd choice at best. Soon we will be into the hectic Xmas run of games quickly followed by the transfer window.

For a new man to come in maybe not knowing this league and having to asses what he has got here, then to try and get the team playing his way would be massively difficult. So I think our best option is to appoint Unsworth. This would stabalize the club as you can bet that there will be a few of our players instructing their agents to be on the look out for a new club come January. So if we appoint Unsworth now he and Walsh can decide which strikers they go for and start talking to those players agents now.

This has been hopefully a lesson to Moshiri if you are going to sack a manger make sure you have his replacement ready to go. As Everton will not come out of this with any credit whoever ends up as the manager.

Kim Vivian
51 Posted 23/11/2017 at 09:55:09
Sandro can do a job, Ciaran.

Hopefully he follows Niasse's harrying and pressing example because as Oumar has shown, you don't need to be Messi to bag a couple of goals.

Tony Everan
52 Posted 23/11/2017 at 10:05:29
Kim I really hope so , but I see Sandro as more of a peripheral figure. Drifting out wide or deeper and leaving us with a void up front.

I just don't think he has that centre forward positional sense like Niasse has. Niasse is no Messi, but he pops up at the right time and is a bit of an unpredictable nightmare for defenders.

Sandro, in the Premier League, is a bit more manageable.

Tony Twist
53 Posted 23/11/2017 at 10:32:38
With regards Rangnick, I have little knowledge of him but has certainly proved himself in Germany and would, I think, really modernize the club. I think he has a passion for the game also. I wouldn't be disappointed in the slightest if we got him in, it might make Walsh nervous though!
James Stewart
54 Posted 23/11/2017 at 10:43:01
What an utter joke we are at present. I have zero confidence anyone knows what they are doing at Everton. Owner, manager, players all seem utterly clueless.
Kim Vivian
55 Posted 23/11/2017 at 10:49:45
Tony – I know that's like how we've been using him but to try him through the middle could just work. I believe he could prove a real nuisance to an enemy defence buzzing about with a slightly free-er role.

Alternatively we've got Mirallas who can play that role. It defeats me as to why he has never been given an opportunity to show us that. After all, that is where he played at Olympiakos and he must have been doing something right to get our attention back then.

With the result of tonight's game having no importance other than as a confidence booster one of those options could be worth a spin today. I do not think that would be too controversial under the circumstances.

Andy Walker
56 Posted 23/11/2017 at 10:56:45
I think the Board’s plan was to replace Koeman with Allardyce. I think they spoke to him within a week of Koeman going, then over the next week the Board saw the negative reaction of so many Everton fans to Allardyce and the Board change their minds. 3 weeks had then passed.

They turned to Silva, but as he’s under contract and Watford are playing hard ball, so they can’t get him either. Another week gone.

All looking pretty bleak.

But there’s one person who’s very keen and that’s Unsworth, problem is he isn’t the right man because he’s unproven as a manager of a top league club.

Kunal Desai
57 Posted 23/11/2017 at 10:59:05
Simeone shouts are absolutely daft. He will come to the Premier League next summer but it won't be with Everton. Probably likely to be Conte's replacement.
Eddie Dunn
58 Posted 23/11/2017 at 11:13:53
Patience, patience. The media howl for movement, news is their lifeblood. Talkshite are howling with indignation that things are not happening. Koeman had to go- the vast majority of us wanted him out, and now we have to wait and hope Unsie keeps things from going pear-shaped until the right appointment is made.
Ciaran O'Brien
59 Posted 23/11/2017 at 11:21:26
Kunal (#57), how is it daft. He might be interested. Both Moyes and Koeman were amongst the highest paid managers around when they were in the dugout. So we'd be able to pay him wants. We could back him in the transfer market too.

There is a definite truth in the links with him because it's still there. He may have a contract until 2020 but Atletico are about to go out of the Champions League group stages and Griezmann might leave.

I'm sick of our own fans let alone the media and the big boys thinking that we are a nothing club with no history, good players and a promising future.

The Premier League is the most watched in the world and is the most competitive. Simeone has definitely heard of us and might like the challenge at Goodison.

Why must we always settle for mediocre managers who haven't won stuff or ever will. Why must we only look at the British and Irish market.

Alex Mullan
60 Posted 23/11/2017 at 11:26:21
According to a guy I spoke to yesterday who knows Jim White, Bill Kenwright has 'apparently' approached the manager of a local Travel Lodge to see if he step in until May. Waiting to hear if they can get Christmas cover in.
Kunal Desai
61 Posted 23/11/2017 at 11:46:16
Ciaran – 30 years of mediocrity would tell us getting Simeone is a pipe dream. Stats don't lie we are not an elite club and to think otherwise would be naive.

Nothing is changing under Kenwright's stewardship. We may be able to offer a top salary to managers but the best managers will also want to prove themselves at the highest level which is the Champions League which is why Simeone won't come to Everton. There will be other clubs here and abroad after his signature.

Don't get fooled by what you read.

James Morgan
62 Posted 23/11/2017 at 13:05:29
Just get Dyche, for God's sake, he's proved far more than Silva.
Iain Johnston
63 Posted 23/11/2017 at 13:16:15
Just read on the beeb that we interviewed Rangnick prior to Martinez's appointment... I didn't know that.

The German has now distanced himself from our advances apparently.

For all of those wishing, or praying for Simeone...

What are we waiting for? Dyche could always change his surname to Dichio in honour of the erstwhile Sunderland & West Brom goal machine, would having an Italian slant make him more acceptable?

Steve Ferns
64 Posted 23/11/2017 at 13:43:08
Isn't this the same Ralf Rangnick who became a Director of Football after suffering health problems? Why would he take an even more high-pressured job? And would we really want him?
Mike Allen
65 Posted 23/11/2017 at 13:54:25
Why Silva? I just don't get it. Other than the chosen one, is his buddy chasing after past-their-best media-driven out-of-work high-fliers who will want to spend another £150 million on second raters is asking for trouble.

Just give it to Unsworth, let him get on with it. No, not because he's one of us, but because, if we are going for the likes of Silva, then why not Unsworth and let's end the stupid name-dropping speculation.

Soren Moyer
66 Posted 23/11/2017 at 13:55:47
I do not think Ralph Rangnick is a good choice. He has been dismissed several times during his career. Leipzig is pretty much the only club he has achieved some sort of succes with. He would be a big risk imo.
David Israel
67 Posted 23/11/2017 at 14:05:17
Ciaran (#60), the only Irish manager I remember us having was Billy Bingham, and that is going all the way back to the 70s.

Talking of which, Martin O'Neill is available.

Dale Rose
68 Posted 23/11/2017 at 14:44:13
Are we getting a new manager in to appease the media, or to improve the team? I thought Koeman was the answer, it turned out badly. We have Unsworth in charge at the present doing a fairly good job. Leave him be for now and judge his results.

We can bandy around names as much as we like, but unless we pay a lot of money out, we aren't going to get any top manager. The team is a mix of young and inexperienced players and players who sadly have had their day. We also have the disaster buys of the summer.

This is crisis management defined. I have never thought we would get the drop and still don't, we are however looking mid table. Its been a horrendous year for the club with injuries and change. What we need now is a firm hand, and strong support.

No top manager is going to come here at the present, if it goes wrong they are out and I'm sure all the other pundits on every team site in the country will bring that up when they fail, and are forced out. It does nothing for their CV.

Strong and steady at the moment, unless we have a fortune hiding away for new players, its going to be a long hard season.

I feel really sorry for Unsworth, he has taken this job on, a tremendous leap from what he was doing, and is making a fist of it. The good people of ToffeeWeb should get together and get behind Unsworth and the team, we can have a post mortem in the summer. Now is not the time.

No more foreign mercenaries, to fail and walk away with life changing money. We all know its happened time and time again. Enough is enough. this club is to big to fail.

John Raftery
69 Posted 23/11/2017 at 15:38:39
There is no point in hurrying to a decision unless you are totally confident it is the right one. Silva has not done enough to establish his Premier League credentials. If he does so over the next six months we can go back for him in the summer or choose from the other candidates who will emerge in the coming months.

I'm happy to wait for the summer providing Unsworth keeps picking up enough points to steer us away from trouble. We are in a better position than we were a month ago despite the utter shambles he inherited.

Gerard McKean
70 Posted 23/11/2017 at 17:42:47
Like most TW posters I have no confidence in this Board. I have written several times that some of them (the Fokkers) are self-serving charlatans masquerading as life-long Evertonians using their experience and successful career record (which nobody at EFC thought to be duly diligent about at the time) for the benefit of the club. Such is their ineptitude that they did not even see the need to appoint a QC to represent Niasse at the FA Kangaroo Court.

In terms of a managerial appointment, it seems to be coming down to a Hobson's Choice. For me, although I like David Unsworth, he lacks the ability to think differently that marks out the best coaches. It was an open secret that Koeman did not like the staff he inherited at Finch Farm; some, like Unsworth, played the long game and ignored being ignored and waited; others, like Kevin Sheedy, decided not to put up with that nonsense and moved on.

I think we all agree that a lot of good young players have been coming through over the last few years and some of us believe that Sheedy's role in that has been underplayed. Sheedy was a thinking fan's footballer; is he the cerebral coach we need?

There is a view that he may not relish all of the responsibility that the role entails but what if he were given the right support? Thinking outside the box myself, why not bring in Liam Rosenior who, as well as being able still to provide very decent cover in defence, is qualifying as a coach with very high reviews of his performance. Rosenior writes regular thought provoking articles for The Guardian, one of which a while back drew attention to the fact that Silva, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Mourinho would not have been able to show their coaching qualities in their early 30s if they had been English.

Time to be brave enough to take a risk and take NSNO seriously? Sheedy with Rosenior, himself a potentially outstanding coach in his early 30's, as his assistant and ultimately his successor?

Paul Birmingham
71 Posted 24/11/2017 at 22:50:00
Next game v Soton, counts, most games soon, will be 6 pointers..

The house is in on fire..surely EFC please put this recurring fire out, for good.

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