The documentary Two Tribes which follows the City of Liverpool in the 1980s fighting back, from riots and unemployment to the triumph of both football clubs and the music scene, will be screened on BT Sport 1 on Saturday evening after Everton's game against West Ham.


Reader Comments (38)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Brian Wilkinson
1 Posted 01/04/2019 at 16:13:34
What a great show, brought back a lot of memories. Especially our early struggles and the mass unemployment.

Have to agree, the football certainly raised a lot of spirits of the Days ,of a City on its knees, fighting back.

Jimmy Hogan
2 Posted 01/04/2019 at 16:50:52
I loved Heseltine's "not easy people to lead" comment. I think he summed up the good folk of Liverpool with that understatement.
Kieran Kinsella
3 Posted 01/04/2019 at 17:19:27
I read a piece recently with Lawro talking about that era with the political backdrop. He said if Liverpool didn’t win he always hoped Everton would and he assumed Everton players felt the same way. They put this to Ratcliffe who said “Obviously Lawro is a lot nicer than me”
John McFarlane Snr
4 Posted 01/04/2019 at 17:28:36
Hi Brian [1] having moved out of the city to Skelmersdale in 1967, I didn't know how bad life had become for some I'd left behind, but I think that Dave Abrahams will agree that life in the Everton district, where we were both raised, wasn't a bed of roses in the immediate post-war years.

I know that it's a bit of a cliché, but we didn't know that we were poor because everyone was in the 'same boat', with no greenery to play in, the nearest parks Newsham Park, and Stanley Park were too far for us to go to, so we were forced to play 'Togger on the Oller' for younger TWs, that translates to 'Football on the bombed site' and they were the 'Good Old Days?'

Tony Abrahams
5 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:20:53
I feel sorry for the kids now John, honestly. We weren’t poor, we just never had much money, but I genuinely think we were richer, in so many other ways.

Football saved a lot of lives during the dark days of “Thatchers Britain” in our city, and I can’t wait to take a trip down memory lane, watching this film, and hope the good times return for our great young supporters, who have seen absolutely nothing...Please!

John Keating
6 Posted 01/04/2019 at 21:40:29
A lot of good memories and laughs too.

Our bus was full going down to that Milk Cup Final and as far as I can remember only me, my brother and my red mate had tickets. Every single person got in! What the actual crowd was God knows.

I always thought the tackling in the 70's and 80's was wimpish compared to the 50's and 60's but there was a few tasty ones during some of the Derby highlights, can you imagine them now?

Degsy was right it really was the City against the establishment. I remember Kinnock doing Thatchers hatchet job on us. Bastard

Ste Blundell
7 Posted 02/04/2019 at 01:38:12
Anyone got a link? I can't get BT Sport.
Brian Wilkinson
8 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:10:51
I looked on YouTube Ste but only snippets there, I recorded it from bt sports and certainly one of the best for a memory lane trip.

I hope someone manages to find a link for you, well worth a watch.

The woman stood on the barrier flashing her drawers, was to the right of me in the end opposite the tunnel end, later giving a flash of her boobs to the crowd request.

Even from that opposite end of the pitch, you could see Hanson’s arm deflect the ball away, how the ref missed it I will never know.

Mike Gaynes
9 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:32:54
Fascinating documentary.

I barely knew any of this, because there was virtually no news coverage in the US of Liverpool's economic plight back then. I've seen posts here by some of the older folks talking about the anti-government feelings of that era, but of course I could not possibly understand the passion stirred by this history. I think I understand a bit more now.

And of course the footy history is wonderful.

Rob Halligan
10 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:57:16
For anyone who's not yet seen this, it's to be shown again on BT sport 3 next Tuesday 9th April at 22.45.
Ray Roche
11 Posted 02/04/2019 at 22:57:22
Yeah, Neil Shitbag Kinnock, who, along with his wife and son, have all wangled themselves MEP status as well as being a member of the House of Lords. No wonder he was so anti Brexit, afraid that his gravy train will get derailed.
Kinnock, the well known Socialist.
Ste Blundell
12 Posted 02/04/2019 at 03:37:11
Thanks Brian, the snippets look really good don't they, glad you say the rest of it matches up. Drawers, boobs and a trip down memory lane sound like the basis of any good documentary.
I don't suppose you'd consider sending me a copy of your recording on dropbox would you? If its actually possible and not a hassle for you like.
Bobby Mallon
13 Posted 03/04/2019 at 12:49:53
Ste Blundell @12 try this link. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JUajX0AIjn3OUz8DKl98R0U8gJWLvd1_/view
Ste Blundell
14 Posted 04/04/2019 at 01:04:21
Bobby, that's absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much mate, such a nice thing to do, I really appreciate it.

Steve Brown
15 Posted 04/04/2019 at 02:32:32
Bobby, echoing Stu. That is fantastic
Jamie Crowley
16 Posted 04/04/2019 at 03:27:36
Bobby Mallon @ 13 -

I just downloaded your link about 2 hours or so ago. Wouldn't play on QuickTime, downloaded a third party app that plays MP4s on a Mac, and I was off.

What an amazing documentary. That was absolutely wonderful.

I can only echo Mike Gaynes @9. I could not possibly understand the passion stirred by this history.

I'd been told of Thatcher's government and their campaign against the City of Liverpool on these pages. I never had an inkling things were that bad.

For people who haven't seen this, it's a wonderful testament to the people of Liverpool. I highly, highly suggest watching this.

10 out of 10.

Bobby Mallon - if you have a PayPal account, text me at 9048060611. I'd like to transfer $20 and buy you a pint or two. Thank you.

My God that was wonderful. I'll watch it again. Probably multiple times.

Tony Abrahams
17 Posted 04/04/2019 at 11:26:45
I’m Bobby Mallon, Jamie, and so is my wife!
Ray Roche
18 Posted 04/04/2019 at 11:33:26
Now, now Tony, stop it. You’re not Bobby Mallon.

I am.

Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 04/04/2019 at 11:35:35
I just wonder if getting money off Jamie, is going to be a doddle!
Jamie Crowley
20 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:10:34
Getting money off me is probably easier than I care to consider, Tony and Ray.

Bobby, a beer or two awaits man! Jump at it!

Ray Roche
21 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:34:57
This could turn into an “I am Spartacus” thread, disguised as Bobby Mallon.
Tony Abrahams
22 Posted 04/04/2019 at 16:38:28
If your anything like your fellow American, Jamie, you will be no good to me mate, because some of us only take cash!
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

23 Posted 04/04/2019 at 23:14:34
Bobby Mallon, big-big-BIG thanks for sharing that link.

That is the best football documentary EVER!

I am so pumped after watching that, recalling those times.

So much to laugh at.
So much to be saddened by.
So much to get angry at.
So much to be proud of, that the city and the population got up off the mat on the count of 'nine' so many times, refusing to be knocked out and beaten - and WON!

This should be compulsory viewing for anyone with any association to the city.

Thanks again Bobby.

Jamie Crowley
24 Posted 04/04/2019 at 23:44:41
Jay -

It should be compulsory viewing for any "adopted" Blue like myself to learn and understand the team you're following, and the city it resides in.

I seriously will recommend this to any American I come across who supports Everton.

Bobby - still awaiting that "free prize". . . .

Mike Gaynes
25 Posted 05/04/2019 at 00:03:02
Comment duly noted, Tony #22.
Don Alexander
26 Posted 05/04/2019 at 01:50:46
Just watched it and thanks to Bobby for the link. That said, I skimmed it from the Heysel part onward. After that we were fucked for reasons we had had nothing to do with.

Hillsborough was an appalling tragedy for way more than the 97 who died and their families and friends (and the many more that suffered injury), because on a lesser but still crucial level Heysel robbed us Evertonians of everything, forever. Our loss was not of loved ones admittedly but it was and remains a grievous loss nonetheless.

So yes, I'm still bitter, not against Liverpool FC or their supporters, but just about being denied the opportunity we earned as a club to take on Europe's best and show ourselves to be every bit as successful as any other famous club in Europe.

Lawrenson even says much the same in the program when he said "Heysel seems to have been swept under the carpet." Too right it was, four whole years before Hillsborough.

Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 05/04/2019 at 07:17:41
All in jest Mike, not that Jamie, is biting anyway!
Brian Murray
28 Posted 05/04/2019 at 07:25:59
Heysel changed the landscape of EFC, probably forever, and it was big of Lawrenson to at least acknowledge that — unlike the rest of the ex-kopite pundits.

To this day, I can't watch the 85-86 season. Still too painful; then, one by one, losing our world class players and manager because of their hooligans...

I just pray to the gods that Man City give us a stay of execution until at least next season, when we could conceivably win both derbies and derail them big time.

Tony Abrahams
29 Posted 05/04/2019 at 07:30:04
I agree with that Don, because I also don’t blame Liverpudlians, for English clubs being thrown out of Europe, even though Hysel, was the straw that broke the camels back, and I also lost a lot of respect for a lot of them, because of the way they dealt with the aftermath.

I thought Everton should have fought this decision, but maybe Phillip Carter, felt he couldn’t win, especially because life is the most precious thing of all.

Brian Murray
30 Posted 05/04/2019 at 07:58:24
Tony. A week before, me and 25 thousand where in Rotterdam — with not one arrest all week, I may add. Chief of Police said EFC fans were welcome back any time. If you don't blame them... wel,l was it a freak of nature that forced them to attack the Juve fans, causing the wall to collapse???



Get real: they murdered 39 people. End of.

Peter Mills
31 Posted 05/04/2019 at 09:56:31
The 1989 FA Cup Final must be one of the strangest games ever, there was such an emotional atmosphere around it.

I know a few people who think it was a day set up for Liverpool to win it, but that’s not how I felt at Wembley. In hindsight, I have often thought it would have been a great, historical event if the two managers had said at the end of 90 minutes “That’s it, game over, let’s share the trophy”.

I realise that would have been virtually impossible for Colin Harvey to do amidst the emotion of us having scored a last-minute equaliser. No doubt every Evertonian (including me) would have been talking forever about how we had surrendered our best chance of beating them in a final, but maybe if we had equalised 5 minutes earlier things would have looked different.

There was a very united feeling between Everton and Liverpool supporters following Hillsborough, but some of that dissipated at the end of extra-time due to there being a winner and a loser.

Stephen Meighan
32 Posted 05/04/2019 at 18:13:20
Brian Murray @30

I couldn't agree more. Horrible club, Liverpool... fucked our history up.

Tony Abrahams
33 Posted 05/04/2019 at 23:07:30
Okay Brian. I personally don’t think English clubs, would have been banned from Europe, if Hysel, was an isolated incident, but English fans, had carried on like divi’s for years, with the Evertonians behaviour in Rotterdam, being the exception to this usual type of behaviour.

Of course Hysel, was a lot worse in terms of what happened, but for a fifteen year old kid, which was my age then, I saw a lot more violence on a regular basis nearlyevery time I went the match in those days, and a lot of people felt it was only a matter of time before something this bad happened, which eventually proved to be the case.

I used to think Philip Carter, should have fought this European ban, but now I’m older it doesnt bother me so much now, because life is more important than football, even if it took me most of my life to even realise this, and I can understand 100%, Evertonians, who blame Liverpool, for the ban.

Same tune, different words; BUT THEY GOT US BANNED FROM EUROPE, WE HAD TO SHARE THE BLAME, FOR THE 39 JUVE FANS, AND THEIR ETERNAL SHAME!

Kieran Kinsella
34 Posted 05/04/2019 at 23:13:43
Tony Abrahams

I would agree. Brian Murray 30, I wouldn't say they "murdered" because I doubt it was a pre-planned effort to prompt a wall to collapse and kill people. But it was manslaughter and it was inexcusable. It was also the latest in a long series of violent incidents going back 20 years. But the ban whether just or not did have a huge impact on reducing crowd trouble throughout England. That is a positive for everyone including Everton fans.

Kieran Kinsella
35 Posted 05/04/2019 at 23:17:31
Peter Mills 31

It was a weird cup final. After Hillsborough (and Michael Thomas stealing the title at Anfield) there was never any doubt that Liverpool would win. Everton made it as good a game as it could be given prevailing circumstances.

Don Alexander
36 Posted 05/04/2019 at 00:04:41
I thank Tony Abrahams for his opinion of me but, in all honesty, I cannot claim to be so acquiescent of Liverpool fans' behaviour at Heysel as he and many others seem to be post Hillsborough. Yes, I agree that Carter was useless as a defender of our club's innocence (as any self respecting Thatcherite would be of course) but we suffered immeasurably, and deeply.

As far as I'm concerned actual people have to be held to account for the consequence of their actions. Liverpool fans in 1985 inadvertently or otherwise caused the destruction of our best team ever in terms of European success. We've never come close to recovering, but who knows where we'd be now had we not had to immediately lose so many of our first team and been denied the very real prospect of winning the European Cup?

Kieran Kinsella
37 Posted 06/04/2019 at 00:47:37
Don 36

That isn’t true. We did “immediately lose so many of our first team.” The club spent a lot of money to upgrade on Gray and Mountfield with Lineker and Watson. We won the league again two years later. Southall and Watson hung around for another decade and we squeezed every drop of life out of Ratcliffe, Snodin, Sherry, Sharp and Reid over the next four or five years.

Tony Abrahams
38 Posted 06/04/2019 at 09:37:46
Philip Carter, is one of the main reasons that I’ve got no time for people getting awards off the system Don, which I spoke about during the “impromptu board meeting”, because I heard at the time that Everton were approached by Norwich, to fight this European ban.

I don’t know if this was true, but I also feel that Everton, have never really recovered from the events of Hysel, even if it was only 3/4 years beforehand that the clubs fans, were trying to raise the money to sign Terry Curran. (We’ve been skint before Bill!)

EUFA, got off Scott-free, because most people agreed that Hysel, was an appalling choice to hold a game of this magnitude, just like the English FA, have never been brought to account for Hillsborough, considering that this stadium never even had a safety certificate?

Kieran, I honestly think that the drug ecstasy, brought about the biggest change with regards to stopping violence at the match, along with the introduction of cctv?

The Merseyside derby has definitely changed now though and even though it took a few years to really kick-in, Hysel, has got to be the biggest reason for things never being the same again.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


© ToffeeWeb