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Atletico eye summer deal for Richarlison

| Friday, 15 February 2019 126comments  |  Jump to last
Atletico Madrid have emerged as the newest suitors for Richarlison's signature according to speculation in Spain.

AS claim that the Spanish side have sounded out the Brazilian's representatives to see if he would be amenable to a switch to La Lige just a year after joining Everton from Watford.

Richarlison would not come cheap and it would require a massive fee but the report says that Atletico feel he would be worth it given that he is only 21 and already a Brazil international.

Chelsea have been linked with Richarlison in recent weeks as well.



Reader Comments (126)

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Paul Birmingham
1 Posted 15/02/2019 at 06:43:41
It will be interesting to see if there’s any foundation in this rumour, but also Charlie’s career in entwined with MS, in terms of EPL.

An interesting few months ahead and then the summer transfer window.

Dean Johnson
2 Posted 15/02/2019 at 07:34:08
Snap their hand off. When the chips are down, this man chooses to dive, whine and moan, not the type we need.

Do it, don't offer him a contract improvement, please!

Mike Gaynes
3 Posted 15/02/2019 at 07:57:07
Dean, wrong. Could not disagree more. He's a callow 21 and already our leading scorer. He will mature. May he do it in Blue.
Robert Leigh
4 Posted 15/02/2019 at 08:40:33
Certainly with you here Mike.

Dean I don't understand your thinking - would you rather Kevin Kilbane down the left again? Pienaar was fouled a lot (I think at one point he was the most fouled player in the Prem) and he was one of our best players in the last ten years.

Now if only we could make something of the set pieces we get when Richarlison goes down. We should know how to do it having seen it happen at the other end so often this season...

Colin Glassar
5 Posted 15/02/2019 at 08:43:35
I’d swap him for Simeone.
Bobby Mallon
6 Posted 15/02/2019 at 09:13:52
I would sell him, he gas no heart for the club or team what a talent but what a cry baby, oh and don’t say he’s only 20 he’s a kid it’s football, 99% of kids dreams, he’s not fighting taliban he’s living his dream.
John Wells
7 Posted 15/02/2019 at 09:57:19
Sell our leading scorer who has been scoring in an unfamiliar position, why? In all fairness there are plenty of the modern pros if even asked to play out of position go on strike! Also remember back to the start of the season when he was on fire, the tackles that went in on him were a disgrace and yes I agree he is going down easy but maybe trying to get a free or two because he was getting sweet fuck all for being literally assaulted week in week out. Also I want to see this guy on the left link up with a top class striker, that’s when I think we will see his true class.

Also for those that were going nuts about his price he is now a Brasilian international and seemingly worth 50% more than what we paid for him and who is it that wants him, Simone, the man we would all love to have here but won’t. He obviously sees some natural class in the guy as he has just signed up to AM until 2022 and I’d imagine signing an extension means he has a big say on who comes in.

Peter Warren
8 Posted 15/02/2019 at 10:00:43
Agree with Colin. The manager is key not any individual player
John Wells
9 Posted 15/02/2019 at 10:18:38
Colin and Peter I agree re manager but I want Richarlison to work with a top manager here. Silva I admit I loved the idea of him but the stubbornness of not sorting out the defence is really pissing me off, it’s a problem that could have and should have been solved and he will realise his error in time.

As stated in other threads Conte for me if not Rafa. Steady the ship and then full steam ahead!!

Bill Gienapp
10 Posted 15/02/2019 at 10:35:01
I think we can all agree that he spends too much time writhing around on the ground and looking for fouls, but I'm not sure why that equates to him not having any heart or being a bad apple? People say retaining our best players is our only hope of progressing, but want to get rid of our 21-year-old budding Brazilian superstar after one season? Really?

Most articles admit Athletico Madrid is in no financial position to come anywhere near what our asking price would be, so I imagine this is a non-starter anyway.

Marcus Taylor
11 Posted 15/02/2019 at 10:37:00
"according to speculation in Spain" - Bullshit.

The AS article begins, "Así lo publica hoy Daily Star".

In English, "This is published today by the Daily Star."

Basically, this a rumour from the Daily Star, translated into Spanish. Hardly a reputable source. The basis of the Daily Star 'story' is that 'Richarlison is on the radar of Europe’s elite' - which is patently obvious.

File under: Not even worthy of discussion.

Sam Hoare
12 Posted 15/02/2019 at 10:55:51
Stones was not good enough. Barkley was not good enough. Lukaku was not good enough. And now Richarlison is not good enough.

It's amazing how many of our best players are still not good enough!

The lad is 21, plays for Brazil and has scored almost one every two games despite playing alot on the wing. Sure he's having a bad patch but so is the whole team. Hope we keep him for a while longer.

Arild Andersen
13 Posted 15/02/2019 at 11:21:17
Well, Robert #4, sometimes I'm tempted to say yes.
Paul Cherrington
14 Posted 15/02/2019 at 11:28:44
I think the problem some fans have with this player is his apparent lack of fighting spirit, passion and love for the club. This may not be true at all but it is what comes across when you watch him at times. Pienaar has been mentioned above but this only sums up what the issue is for many fans. Pienaar showed immense spirit, heart and fight to go with his skill – Richarlison needs to start doing the same.

having said that, I wouldn't be in favour of selling him just yet. He undoubtedly has great talent and carries a goal threat which is worth hanging on to for the near future.

Tony Everan
15 Posted 15/02/2019 at 11:30:36
Richarlison is our top scorer, is a kid, is playing for Brazil, scoring for Brazil .

Stop. Maybe it is something to do with us, our team, that is not playing to his strengths.

He has been battered playing CF for the last few months and is resilient enough to still be fighting on uninjured.

With a top class striker to feed off, Richarlison will improve no end . If we get the right top class, man in at CF, Richie will benefit exponentially. We need a top class CF who frightens defenders , intimidates them and diverts their focus , think Lukaku/ Diego Costa . Richarlison could only feed off that.

To sell him now would be an avoidable and completely naive mistake.

Derek Knox
16 Posted 15/02/2019 at 12:00:24
Selling our better players will achieve very little toward the entering the Top 6 Club, have we not learnt from selling Stones, Lukaku etc. I am firmly in the Camp that without a decent leader at the helm, the players are not going to play to their full potential, and therefore not win games.

Yes, we do have many players that need shipping out, easier said than done on massive ill-thought out contracts, by Major Saboteurs Walsh and Koeman. Just make sure the better players don't get forfeited too.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

17 Posted 15/02/2019 at 12:18:11
Two aspects to this 'story' for me:

1) as Marcus @ 11 points out, the original source of this story was that beacon of truth on Life, the Universe, and everything, the Daily Star. Some folk seemingly never work out how these invented rumours get circulated and regurgitated, giving the impression that it must be true because so many different media outlets are reporting it.

2) Even knowing that, I am no longer surprised when some Evertonians advocate selling our best young talent on some whimsical charge, as we did with Stones, Lukaku, Barkley and (to a lesser degree) Deulofeu (as Sam @ 12 comments on). Right there you have an outstanding spine around which to build a side for a decade under the right manager, supported by an ambitious board.

Instead, we dismantled it, and look what we bought in their stead.

Fran Mitchell
18 Posted 15/02/2019 at 13:10:14
Ojnce again there is a growning community of 'sell the worthless shite' when referring to our best player.

The lad is class, that is why top clubs are being linked with him. He is befcoming a fixture in the Brazil squad, which boosts our profile immensely.

Is he a bit petulant, yeah. Does that stop him being class, no. Do liveepool want rid of Salah because he dives? Are Palace keem to get rid of Zaha? City getting rid of Sterling? No. Of xourse not, but I'm the fantasy world.of some Everton supporters, getring rid of Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, Gueye, Richarlison, Pickford and more is the key to our success.

Brian Patrick
19 Posted 15/02/2019 at 14:58:27
Football is a business; buy cheap, sell high. Bill won't be losing sleep if he has to pocket the wedge, only the highly naive Everton fans.
Dave Ganley
20 Posted 15/02/2019 at 15:11:53
I totally agree, Derek #15, a leader is imperative on and off the field. These players have little or no direction when things are going wrong and as such show petulance. With there being no leader, there appears nobody willing to tell them to pack it in.

The likes of Richarlison and the above mentioned Barkley, Stones, Lukaku etc just lost interest. Imagine if we had a Ratcliffe or a Cahill or somebody like that playing with these guys, positively channelling their talent in the right direction. That's what we have missed most of all in the last few years, a proper leader and captain on the field who leads by example and wouldn't stand for the petulance to take hold.

I have to say though, I don't recall Everton actively wanting to get rid of or dismantle the side by getting shut of Barkley, Stones, Lukaku and the like; they wanted to leave and put in requests. If you want to blame anyone for them leaving blame the managers who couldn't deliver a more competitive team for them to play in.

Fans aren't looking to rid the club of talent but they do get fed up with players who really can't be bothered and don't put in the required performances they are capable of. All this nonsense that fans drive players away is just that, nonsense.

We have every right to expect Everton players to give their all in every game and clearly they don't do that. It doesn't matter how talented they are, that doesn't absolve them of their responsibilities.

If you want to compare Salah with our situation then look at how Salah works for the team and compare it to players mentioned above. Salah is in a different league. That's why he gets away with diving etc, same as Sterling at Man City.

The amount of posts about Barkley when he was here saying that he shouldn't tackle, shouldn't track back, shouldn't do his bit because he was a bit talented was embarrassing. No wonder we are in such a mess when some of the fanbase think it's ok for a player to not do his responsibilities.

That's why the RS and City are so far ahead of the rest, because they all do their bit, they all work like crazy to get the ball back when they don't have it, they all do the dirty work as well as the stuff that's easy on the eye.

Of course if you mention this here on TW you're a Neanderthal who doesn't understand football and just wants a team full of work horses. No wonder we win fuck all when you just want a team full of show ponies with no substance.

John Pierce
21 Posted 15/02/2019 at 15:24:54
This season, along with others were we massively under-performed, leaves us vulnerable. The story in all likelihood is probably nonsense, but when your manager produces such a mediocre team, stories like this one will increase; would I be surprised if Everton finish lower half and sell him? No.

Not just because Everton might sell but players and their agents often help the story along when the team is on the slide.

And then we have another season of transition...

James Newcombe
22 Posted 15/02/2019 at 16:22:07
Cracking player and I hope we can hang onto him for a while... But with his international exploits, I doubt it. Like Lukaku - enjoy him while we have him.
Jimmy Hogan
23 Posted 15/02/2019 at 16:30:38
John #1, nobody calls him “Charlie“ As for his age, Messi, two Ronaldos and a few others were already world class at 21, as was Mbappe. I'm disappointed at the way Richarlison's season has fizzled out. World class he ain't.
Brian Williams
24 Posted 15/02/2019 at 16:42:45
I've heard loads of Evertonians refer to Richarlison as "Charlie" among other less friendly names!
Paul Swan
25 Posted 15/02/2019 at 16:52:20
For me, too many games where he does absolutely nothing. His petulant tantrums and constant moaning actually break up our play even more and, god knows, it's already bad enough.
Fran Mitchell
26 Posted 15/02/2019 at 16:52:30
Jimmy, you're disappointed that he ain't Messi, Ronaldo, or Mbappe. True that. I think we should just get rid of all players who are not once-in-a-generation world class superstars.

Better call your parents Jimmy and apologise for not being as smart as Einstein, as good looking as Clooney, nor as successful as Zuckerberg. Your parents must be well disappointed.

Richarlison has lost form, along with pretty much every player in the team. But the lad is talented, we lack goalscorers in our squad and he is pretty much the only one we have.

We need to add to Richarlison, not get rid. Let's sell Walcott, Bolasie, Tosun, Bernard and other ineffectual players unlikely to get better – not Richarlison, Lookman, Vlasic and Co who have potential to actually make us a decent team.

Tony Twist
27 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:01:25
Not good but maybe it is a sign that Silva is going.
Steve Carse
28 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:04:18
If Richarlison had opened the season as poorly as he's been performing since then, we'd be looking to ship him out and cut our losses. So the issue: Which is the real Richarlison?
Jay Harris
29 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:14:30
The origin of the story is the Daily (fake news) Mail, which is also reporting today that Gueye wants away to PSG or another club that plays in Europe because his eyes have been opened.

Probably a Red Shite gobshite reporter trying to stir things up.

Danny Broderick
30 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:14:56
Richarlison has the same weakness as Sigurdsson – he gets his fair share of goals, but the game passes him by. These two are passengers most of the time, and then they will do the occasional flick or score the occasional goal.

In all honesty, I've been disappointed with him in open play. Aside from the fact that he spends a lot of time on his arse sulking, he is quite a clumsy footballer – the amount of times he runs into opposition defenders is incredible. He's obviously got ability, but if we could make a healthy profit and move him on, I probably would.

Steve Ferns
31 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:16:02
Jimmy #23, the players all called him "Charli" at first. Apparently that was his nickname at Watford. I think "Richy" is now more popular amongst the players, but you do still hear them talk about "Charli".

Why does anyone doubt that Richarlison "loves the club"? I think it would be hard to love the club after just 6 months, and if he did, it would be a bit fake for me. Lucas Digne seems "in love with the club". I believe he's overselling his affection for the club as he wants to have that relationship with the fans and does seem to want to hang around, and is trying to gain a fan's favourite role.

As for Richarlison, if you follow him on social media, you will see that he looks out for all things Everton. He watches fan videos, he says he sings the songs we sing about him, and loves them all.

Then he always stays after games, or comes back out after games, to address his fan club and give a shirt. What Richarlison does towards his particular fans, which are the youngsters at the club, goes above and beyond. No-one else did this before he came. That for me is genuine affection.

So, please tell me how this young boy from Brazil, who has only been here 6 months, could possibly "love the club" any more than he does?

As for the play-acting, I would love to hear what Jay and Fran think, being based in Brazil. Richarlison is from the Neymar school. I have heard people like Tim Vickery talk about this at length. Players like Pele and Maradona got the shit kicked out of them as kids on the pitches without refs. Neymar and Richarlison developed their skills as kids in Futsal and this had refs. So they developed a "defence mechanism" that is basically feigning injury. This is, "Don't try and kick me, I will just fall over before you do, and the ref will give the foul." Because Brazilian refs would give Richarlison a foul for every one of his little dives.

In essence, it's a culture thing. Something he needs to unlearn. That's not easy to do. I still do things (habits, I mean) I learnt in my childhood, subconsciously, and so it is hard to unlearn them.

There is another aspect to the culture thing. Apparently, according to Vickery, it is a big thing in Brazil to con the ref. It's a big thing for all countries in South America. It's the little man getting one over on the establishment, and in the context of countries that were colonies for most of their histories, and the status of people like Richarlison as working class or below, it is something you get encouraged to do.

As I said, I would welcome Jay's and Fran's take on that. Are Vickery and others talking out their arses? Or do we need to consider these things and so cut our 21-year-old Brazilian international some slack?

Ultimately, the lad still seems to enjoy being here. I don't think he will want to leave, and Atletico could not afford him. He will cost more than £60m if he leaves, for sure.

Ian Bennett
32 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:17:18
Sell him, and keep Schneiderlin, Besic, Bolasie et al.

You can't beat selling a productive player, whilst keeping this garbage on the club roster...

Geoffrey Williams
33 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:21:15
The longer he's at Everton the greater the likelihood he'll end up being sold at a loss. If some of the figures quoted are anywhere near to being true then selling him is a no-brainer.

Being realistic, he himself wouldn't envisage being at Everton for more than a couple of years... so, if Everton can turn a decent profit, everyone wins.

Raymond Fox
34 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:30:33
The rumour is probably untrue for starters. We need to buy top players not sell them so he stays for me.

I agree he's not exactly set the world alight lately but he does put the ball in the net; we are not exactly overflowing with goal scorers are we?

Problem is if players want to leave they almost always get their way, its players that have the upper hand nowadays. Add to that, few have any allegiance to any club; if they get a more attractive offer, they're usually off.

Darren Hind
35 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:38:15
I've never been one to criticise coaching staff, because I'm not there at the training ground, but I have to ask; What the fuck is Duncan Ferguson doing with this boy? Why hasn't he taken him to one side and told him he is making a complete twat of himself?

Richarlison's potential is there for all to see, but his antics are excruciating. I know he's only a young lad but he is acting like a child and it's having a really detrimental effect on his game. I don't think I have ever seen a player so mocked by opposition fans.

I don't know who has told him his camp histrionics are a good idea, but the coaches at Everton have a duty to untell him. He can either become the main Brazilian striker (possibly the most coveted position in world football) or become a figure of fun, somebody opponent fans will ridicule and hound out of the Premier League.

Senior people at the club have an obligation to nurture him and advise him. It's time they started fulfilling it.

Rob Dolby
36 Posted 15/02/2019 at 17:39:48
He is our best player so why sell him? If he played for a top 4 team he would get loads of fouls given for him. The opposition target him and refs give him no protection.

Even if he was average, which he obviously isn't, Athletico don't buy mugs. Similarly to PSG wanting Gueye.

We need to add to their quality – not remove it; otherwise, we will never improve.

Jimmy Hogan
37 Posted 15/02/2019 at 18:12:36
Darren #35, his hero is Neymar, so say no more about the diving. As for Duncan, I'm convinced all he does is put the cones out.
Steve Ferns
38 Posted 15/02/2019 at 18:17:41
Jimmy that's exactly all he does. He's no where to be seen for the training sessions that matter, under any of the coaches. Which is how he keeps his job. He's just Bill's man in the management setup.

Apparently he does do some stuff outside of the sessions, but this is more verbal. He gives advice and some tips on heading the ball for example.

Derek Knox
39 Posted 15/02/2019 at 18:42:34
Steve @ 38, these tips on heading the ball don't seem to be working at all, as for his advice, well, I didn't know that any other members of the squad were pigeon fanciers!
Steve Ferns
40 Posted 15/02/2019 at 18:51:13
Agreed DK. I did note Zouma pointing at Ferguson after he scored a header. I hope he was telling Ferguson that’s how it’s done, not thanking him.
Brian Harrison
41 Posted 15/02/2019 at 19:24:22
Richarlison is a talented footballer and seems he has a very close relationship with Marco Silva. He is our top goalscorer and he is only – 21 plenty of improvement still to come. When he first came, I didn't see all this feigning injury, but that seem to change when he was called up to the Brazilian squad and became very friendly with Neymar. So maybe seeing someone he looks up to carry on like that he thought that was something to emulate.

Keeping hold of our best players has been a problem, and other than being in the Champions League on a regular basis I don't know how you stop our most talented players leaving. But there seems to be a pecking order in football with Real, Barca and Man Utd at the top of the food chain; usually, when they come calling, players go.

Stan Schofield
42 Posted 15/02/2019 at 19:58:48
All those who are in favour of selling Richarlison need to get a grip on reality.

On ToffeeWeb, whenever the team is playing shite, when it's dysfunctional and the manager's set-up appears to be a major problem, a lot on here want to get rid of our best players. Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, now Richarlison.

The venom against Lukaku was the worst example of some Evertonians wanting to jump out of the frying pan into the fire, and the criticisms of Stones et al aren't far behind that level of ridiculousness.

It's also started with Gomes. When he started well and he was being worshipped on here, I thought as soon as the team starts playing shite and he struggles, the knives will be out. And they are.

Tony Hill
43 Posted 15/02/2019 at 20:33:19
The second goal against Wolves in the first game of the season, the two goals against Brighton, the header against Cameroon for Brazil: goals of a top quality, instinctive player. Let that talent breathe.

He seems to me to be a shy, vulnerable man and I trust Silva to develop him. Again, let's hold steady.

Dave Ganley
44 Posted 15/02/2019 at 20:38:31
Stan no that's not entirely true. The venom against lukaku and Barkley was that they were coasting through games, playing entirely within themselves. Occasionally they would turn it on and show what they could do then revert to type.

When you see this lack of commitment and in Lukaku's case constantly going to press to state where his next move is going to be then you get into the mindset that if he's going to play as and when he feels like and show no respect to the fans then maybe the best thing is to just bugger off somewhere else.

Same with Barkley who shafted us right royally. Coasted through games, cried because he couldn't handle the pressure of an FA Cup semi then fucked off to sit on the chavs bench. Good fucking riddance.

I want players who want to play for Everton every single game. Players who come off exhausted having given their all. When form eludes them, then they dig deep and give everything for the team. The likes of Bally would despair of some who think they're too good for us. We seem to think that because players have a bit of talent then that excuses everything. That's why we're in the shit, having managers and fans who make excuses for players not delivering any kind of performance and effort.

I don't want Richarlison to leave but also I want to see much more from him if only in effort. It's true that games are totally bypassing him at the moment. He is contributing nothing really. Same with quite a few others also.

Yes he is still young but that doesn't stop him from contributing. Neymar may be his idol and he may be a diver but Neymar invariably stamps his mark on a game regularly. As much as I don't like to paraphrase a RS but didn't Shankly once say if you aren't interfering with play then you shouldn't be on the pitch?

We become obsessed with so-called talented players and are prepared to give them so much leeway to the point of being blinded. Sometimes the ones who defend them blindly are the ridiculous ones. Players need to be accountable too.

Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 15/02/2019 at 20:39:36
I've been Duncan Ferguson the coach's biggest critic, but was talking to someone who is at Finch Farm every day, and he told me that the big man's hands are tied.

Tony Hill
46 Posted 15/02/2019 at 20:49:05
That's interesting Tony @45. Is it the suggestion that Ferguson's just a back room man, a sort of old Everton representative with no influence?
Kunal Desai
47 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:10:42
If that's the case then why hasn't Ferguson moved on for the good of improving himself as a number two or maybe even managing one day instead of being a yesman?

Then at least he could back to Everton one day and have greater input learning from his experiences away and benefitting the club.

Jamie Crowley
48 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:24:29
Sam @ 12 and others -

Sell Richarlison and watch him light it up in Spain.

Played out of position due to need, so sell him?

Why do we get these young players with promise in, and not give them enough time to develop?

Dave @44 -

I see a kid who, when played on the wing (Americanism alert!), busts his ever-loving ass to track back. I don't see a coaster. He goes down too damn easy, but I don't remember seeing him go through the motions. He's wasted up top, it's not his position, so he's ineffective there. But I don't see him coasting while playing striker either.

Inasmuch as Silva is royally pissing me off, and I admittedly flip-flop about every five friggin' minutes with my patience barometer, I think we need to just chill and let this team develop.

I'll probably change my mind if we lose to Cardiff. ;0)

BUT! Ages of our starting 11:

24
21 (Kenny) 26 24 25
20 (Davies) 25
21 29 21
21

A couple of signings, some patience, and we've got a decent future ahead of us despite this season shitting the bed. I'd give Silva next season.

And I'd never sell Richarlison.

Don Alexander
49 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:25:24
The obscene money being paid to these players and managers should make it unnecessary to plead for visible commitment during games. For years now, visible commitment has been conspicuously absent, together with visible fitness and strength, from way too many at Finch Farm.

Richarlison is a young man indeed, as were Barkley, Lukaku and Stones, but fannying about on the pitch isn't and never was part of the Everton psyche, and I can't help but notice that all of the three who left have continued to largely underwhelm at their new clubs.

And if Ferguson had one iota of professional integrity, he'd be as revered as Sharpy, Latch, Joe, Fred, Roy, Alex, Dave, Tommy and Dixie. But he isn't, is he? Instead, he seemingly puts up with having his hands tied as something of a coaching non-entity at Finch Farm, never ever seeking to leave to advance his stellar coaching career. Comfortable life ain't it Dunc, like it is for everyone under Kenwright's spell, and that's why we're so shite.

Tony Hill
50 Posted 15/02/2019 at 21:25:41
The same could be said of David Unsworth, I suppose. Some people don't have it in them to push to the front and are not necessarily the worse for it. Perhaps Ferguson's a no man to whom no-one will listen. Who knows.
Dave Ganley
51 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:26:53
Jamie #48, I get that Richarlison has been played out of position but,, over the last few weeks I haven't seen that player that tracks back and busts his ass to do his best. Now there may be a multitude of reasons for this like a lack of leader on the pitch, lack of leadership or mentor on the sidelines but whatever the reasons at present, he seems to be having a sulk about things not going his way and or lack of interest.

This is what separates the good players from the mediocre. Would he get away with this at City or RS? No probably not. He is not on his own as plenty of the squad are doing likewise at the moment with the exception of the home grown.

The likes of Davies and Kenny are shaming some of the so called stars. Davies especially. Even when he was playing badly you could always tell Davies was busting a gut, you can't say that about Richarlison at the moment.

Now this may seem a bit unfair on a 21-year-old but as Don Alexander quite rightly says, the obscene amount of money They earn should make it unnecessary to plead for total commitment like we expect. You look to your better players to inspire in times of hardship and our better players are just not delivering I'm afraid — either in commitment or productivity.

Jamie Crowley
52 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:40:46
Dave to each his own. Like I mentioned, this Everton squad has me completely bi-polar. One moment I say we need to stick with Silva and the plan, the next I'm calling for torches and pitchforks.

It's been a frustrating season, and the worst part of it is you can draw it all back to the derby. To me, we were flying and playing some really good stuff up to that point, and since then we've looked subpar at best. I think Richarlison has followed a similar curve as the team overall.

I would say I agree with you entirely on Kenny and Davies. They've both been playing some high-octane football as of late. Long may that continue.

Dave Ganley
53 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:49:29
Yes, I agree, Jamie, as I said he's not on his own over last few weeks but they could all do worse than look at the commitment of Davies and Kenny.
Bill Gienapp
54 Posted 15/02/2019 at 22:49:40
There's no question that Richarlison's form has dipped after a strong start, but some people act like he's gone off a cliff or pulled the same disappearing act he did at Watford last season.

In terms of the club's post-Derby swoon, he scored against Newcastle, scored against Watford, scored against Burnley, scored against Millwall in the FA Cup and scored against Huddersfield Town. He's still hitting the back of the net at a reasonable clip and remains our most consistent goal-scoring threat.

Jason Leung
55 Posted 16/02/2019 at 00:16:33
Correct me if I'm wrong but is this not called "tapping up a player"? Don't we need to give Athletico permission to speak to one of our players or reps of players?
Dave Evans
56 Posted 16/02/2019 at 00:25:22
Sam Hoare @ 12 has it sussed.

How many more good players will not be good enough for Everton? How many more players like Stones, Lukaku or Barkely will we kick down the road?

Richarlison and Davies next?

Jerome Shields
57 Posted 16/02/2019 at 00:33:06
The Richarlison Everton have got now is the result of poor mentoring and coaching. He also as a result fits in with the Everton saga.

He is 21 and has talent; with proper mentoring and coaching, he would be good enough to play for Atletico Madrid.

Stan Schofield
58 Posted 16/02/2019 at 01:04:58
Dave @44: Bally himself was subject to ridiculous criticism when his form dropped after Mexico in 1970. I witnessed barracking at Goodison. Alan Ball for fuck sake. A great player. If he could get criticised unjustly, anyone can.
Mike Gaynes
59 Posted 16/02/2019 at 01:34:51
Jason #55, read Marcus' post at #11.

Dave #44, sorry, but that's just silly to me. So he's not Neymar, one of the best players in the world. If he was, would he be at Everton?

And as for "effort" I see maximum from him in every game. Gets all the way back to defend, pursues even the most speculative long balls, closes down well, wins tackles.

Of course he drives us all crazy with the rolling around, and of course his passing judgement needs work but, as I said before, he's raw. He will learn and mature.

Rob Marsh
60 Posted 16/02/2019 at 01:37:23
I get the impression first decent run he has, he'll get offers and just like Lukaku, he'll want to be off.

The first sign will be when he moans about not being in the Champions League.

Dave Ganley
61 Posted 16/02/2019 at 07:32:15
Mike #59, you haven't read my post properly. I didn't compare him to Neymar and I'm not saying he should be. What I did say was that Neymar contributes to most games he plays regardless of his theatrics whereby in recent weeks Richarlison hasn't. If you see maximum effort every game then we are watching two different games. As I've said many times he isn't on his own, a lot of the players have been going through the motions.

Problem here is that because some players have talent them they're immune from criticism. Well if they're that fantastic why are we up shit creek...again? Why are we getting beat by all and sundry? The players, and I include most of them, are coasting. If you defend all this shite then I guess you deserve all the shit games served up.

We all have our favourites and obviously Richarlison is one when he's on form but don't start defending the indefensible. We want to see good players at Everton and when they're not putting it in then we have every reason to ask why they're not. But of course because some of us have the temerity to ask these questions then we are effectively driving these players out of the club. Jeez, no wonder we win nothing when people blindly accept any old shit.

Phil Sammon
62 Posted 16/02/2019 at 08:05:29
Sell him. He's a cheat and I'm disappointed so many Evertonians defend him. I hated the way the Reds stuck up for Suarez and Stirling despite blatant diving and play-acting. Those Evertonians are no different, it seems.
Darren Hind
63 Posted 16/02/2019 at 08:26:46
Stan,

My uncle was taken to the races by his boss one time and found himself in the company of Bally. He asked him how he felt about getting barracked after all he had done. Bally told him his expectations of himself were even higher than those in the crowd – "I've been piss-poor and if I'd paid good money to watch, I'd be the first to shout".

The great mans standards did drop after the world cup. Sports scientist were nowhere near where they are today. The Mexican climate did for them, virtually everyone who went to Mexico came back completely spent.

Having said that, Stan: What wouldn't you give for a "piss-poor" Alan Ball today? He'd still be head and shoulders above this lot

Dave Ganley
64 Posted 16/02/2019 at 09:04:09
Well said, Darren, kind of proves my point that Bally was a proper player and knew when his standards dropped unlike some.

Reading what people are saying about the current lot you'd think we were riding high as opposed to going through an awful sequence of 10 losses in 16 games and beaten by a poor Southampton team in the League Cup and fucking Millwall in the FA Cup. But, then again, people are still idolising Lukaku and Barkley both of whom have been found out at better clubs and are warming the bench. United fans in particular are going mad about his lazy attitude. Sound familiar?

Only Stones is top quality with regards to talent, the only reason he got stick was of his attitude to the fans, nobody doubted his talent and he's doing very well at Man City. Barkley and Lukaku have the talent to be as good as Stones but not the application. Same as a lot of the current lot. Give me a Bally or a Cahill, players who maximise what theyve got, to any of the show ponies we have on offer at the moment.

Tony Everan
65 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:32:07
Jason #55,

It is only tapping up a player if we do it.

If it's Liverpool or Atletico etc, they are just being ''very naughty boys''.

Alan J Thompson
66 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:41:16
As someone intimated somewhere above, would we get our money back? As for Ferguson telling him what he should and shouldn't be doing as regards falling over for no good reason, perhaps that is a job for the Head Coach, not one of his (far) underlings.
Stan Schofield
67 Posted 16/02/2019 at 10:49:08
Dave @64: The problem to me is that the kind of players we're talking about are getting criticised when the team overall is playing shite. But when the team is playing shite, the manager gets criticised for bad tactics and playing players out of position, as well as for bullshitting and deflecting blame. The coaching staff at Everton also get criticised, and the culture of keeping people like Ferguson.

So who's fault is it when Richarlison plays shite? His fault? The manager's? The culture at Everton? All three?

I ask because I haven't got a clue, but I do know that EFC have done my head in for donkey's years. I suspect there are big problems at Everton, but I don't know what they are, and I'm not going to pretend I do. But many on here seem to jump to conclusions, and we end up with players not just being criticised but being so in the most ridiculous ways based on assumptions rather than knowledge. And none of it is productive.

Alan Ball criticising himself is fine, and perhaps reflects the great character he was. But others doing it at the time is not fine, and I don't think it did any good at all. It never does. It can actually put players off their game even more, which is counter-productive. That's why some people need to get a grip on reality, to realise that they don't know what's going on but are making assumptions.

Stan Schofield
68 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:19:23
Dave, just to add, I'm not saying that players should be immune from criticism. It's like any job, if there's a bad attitude or not pulling their weight, they need a bollocking, docking pay, dropping from the team, maybe even made to clean the bogs, etc.

Lukaku should have kept his gob shut to the media, Koeman should have been more professional in terms of what he said, like saying that Lukaku needed to leave Everton to progress. If I'd been the majority shareholder I wouldn't have tolerated shite like that. Mind you, Moshiri hardly led by example.

So criticism where it's due and we know the facts. But not criticism where it's futile and based on supposition.

Tony Hill
69 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:26:00
Interesting comments from Zouma in the Echo talking about a couple of things including his relationship with Silva and the latter's attention to detail. Not, of course, reflected in our current defensive or general performances but, given time, I just wonder.
Frank Crewe
70 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:35:34
This is the downside of developing or buying top young players, as we have seen with Rooney, Lukaku, Stones, and Barkley. Top young players have ambitions of their own. Ambitions that Everton currently cannot fulfil.

Richarlison is in the same boat as the four I mentioned. He wants medals, Champions League football. So it is bound to be the case that rumblings will be heard. They want it all and they want it now. They are not interested in "projects". Careers are short and soon pass so they don't want to waste them plodding along at a mid-table club.

It is up to the club to improve enough so that we can realistically match the ambitions of the top talent. Until this happens, every time we buy or develop a top young player, this will happen.

Dave Ganley
71 Posted 16/02/2019 at 11:45:58
Stan, I wasn't singling Richarlison out and I've stated many times on this thread that he is not on his own, many of the players have been terrible but, seeing as though this is a threat about Richarlison and lots of people were making excuses for him, I put forward my opinion about him.

I still stand by what I've written and it could apply to most of them, to be honest. With the awful run we are on, you look to your better players to help turn it around and he and Sigurdsson and Bernard et al just haven't done that. We go on about how poor we were in the '70s but this lot make the '70s teams look like Barcelona.

Paul Tran
72 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:02:47
First of all, it's good that we still have players of interest to bigger clubs.

Richarlison looks to me like a player going on to the pitch knowing that things aren't going to happen to him, which is why he does the easy stuff like going down too easily. His talent means he will get goals, which like Lukaku, makes him more than useful to the team.

There's no point trying to compare the attitude of today's players to yesterday's. Society has changed, the power is more with the players, the general sense of entitlement is stronger, I'd say footballers are mentally far less resilient, etc.

There's two issues here. One is the lack of a leader/culture within the club to lift the players out of their current malaise. The other is the obsession people have with players who 'look' busy without actually doing that much.

I remember when we played in Split, they had a guy who ran around like a headless chicken, giving away fouls and possession. They also had Vlasic, who looked classy & creative. Most people on here wanted us to buy the headless chicken. I still think Vlasic is worth a go.

The thing I liked about Lukaku, apart from his guaranteed goals, was that like Arteta did, he was constantly in the press telling the club to buy better players, to improve. In other words, saying exactly what I was thinking at the time. And no doubt, what the 'quieter' Stones & Barkley were thinking/saying.

We didn't improve. We didn't buy better players. All three left. The biggest problem is the culture within the club. Until that changes...

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

73 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:52:49
Paul @ 72 nails it for me.

Dave Ganley @ various, you yourself identify a couple of reasons why our best young talent moves on from Everton. It's not just a question of them being 'lazy' or 'losing interest' as you try and portray it.

You mention the lack of a nark (or three!) and leaders in the team to ensure standards are maintained, both on and off the pitch.

You yourself mention that various managers have been unable to deliver a sufficiently competitive side to encourage young talent to stick with us.

It is self-evident that the poor governance of Everton under Kenwright in the Premier League era simply didn't provide the finances or infrastructure that could give any manager a sporting chance to sit at the top table.

You (and others) took umbrage at the public declarations and ambitions of these young players in wishing to advance their own careers.

I said it many times when they were with us, I will say it again now: the profile of the likes of Stones, Lukaku, Barkley and Deulofeu, the age (they were), the talent they possessed, the potential they were already displaying, the ambitions they expressed, is very much the kind of profile we should look to develop at Finch Farm, or bring into the club.

I'd be very surprised if that is not the template Brands is applying now in his scouting. I'd ask for one extra ingredient referenced by many: WINNERS! Bad losers. Real narks. Players the opposition hate to face.

I understand the argument about the lack of motivation of young players given the obscene wages even mediocre players can command, but just look at the most talented players on the planet. They don't stay at the top for a decade or more on their talent alone: they all have a hunger, a desire, to be the very best they can every game.

We had a great core of young talent around which to build a genuinely competitive team to satisfy both our own and the players' ambitions.

Given where we were (still are...) at the time, there was an inevitability that those four gems would be moved on.

We have compounded that further under Moshiri by making a host of dogshit buys that we can't move on due to the inflated contracts they are on.

As I said in my opening, Paul Tran is bang on the money, neatly summed up in his closing sentence:

"We didn't improve. We didn't buy better players. All three left [plus Deulofeu]. The biggest problem is the culture within the club. Until that changes..."

Steve Ferns
74 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:57:26
Jay, care to comment on my post at #31? I’d love to hear your view.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

75 Posted 16/02/2019 at 13:19:04
I'll take a look at it, Steve, and get back to you.

My internet is a bit 'laggy' at the moment.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

76 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:26:46
Steve Ferns re: your post @ 31.

Unlike some on here, I like Tim Vickery, but if he is saying this is a 'cultural' thing about South American football and footballers as if it is unique to the continent, he's talking moonshine. I honestly do not see more exaggerated 'simulation' in Brazilian or South American football then you see every week in the major European leagues.

And before anyone chips in and says that the main culprits of simulation in those leagues are South Americans, they are ignoring the locally born (and other) nationals who also feign fouls and injuries.

Neymar is a terrible example to use as proof positive that South Americans and Brazilians in particular have culturally inherited and innate 'skills' in simulation.

Neymar is just a dick, whatever his origins or nationality, in this regard. He gets fouled a lot, no question. But his theatrics and exaggerated death rolls are atypical of Brazilian footballers in general.

Brazilians are very protective and get very sniffy if a 'gringo', an outsider, has the audacity to criticize any aspect of their country, but even so, I have plenty of folk in my social circle who despair of Neymar and afford him very little sympathy. As you reference Steve, they want more Pele (who was kicked from pillar to post in every game – 1966 v Portugal at Goodison Park, anyone..?), less diver and diva.

A renowned TV commentator and ex-player, Casagrande ('Big House') horrified the viewing audience before last year's World Cup when he called out Neymar and the Brazilian media for not being more critical of his antics. "We are creating a monster from the boy if we allow his on-pitch behaviour to go unchallenged, unchecked".

As in every professional league in the world, players in the Brazilian league try to con the ref into giving them a free kick or penalty, to get a player booked, to relieve pressure and waste time. But certainly no more than the European leagues.

And again, if Vickery, says that it is a big thing in Brazil to con the ref as a way of 'getting one over on the establishment' as some kind of social protest... well... words fail me. That is a total fabrication. Total bollocks.

Personally, I am frequently impressed by the standard of refereeing in Brazil's top league. Given the truly dangerous, murderous (no exaggeration) nature of some of the ultras among Brazilian fans, they are extremely courageous in what they do.

One thing I really don't like about the onfield conduct of Brazilian footballers is how both teams swarm around the referee in protest, sometimes not even for highly contentious decisions, but I am constantly impressed how (outwardly at least) the referees maintain their cool and don't buckle.

I know like me you've watched a lot of Portuguese domestic football, Steve. I can honestly say I totally switched off from watching it due to the extreme levels of violent play in every single game.

Yes, Portuguese footballers are renowned for their skill and technical ability. But the blatant thuggery that occurs in every game is nauseating. It's not subtle. There is no attempt to disguise it. I saw possible career-ending challenges nearly every game. It was reflected in nearly every game with 6, 8, or 10 yellow cards and a red card or two. And there is Shakesperian dramatics going on as well.

I can honestly say I enjoy Brazilian football a lot, LOT more.

On the question of Richarlison, give the lad a break.

We think because he is an adult, earning big money, playing professional football, that he has all the tools to handle 'life'. I see and hear a young man from extremely humble beginnings, still maturing, still unsure of himself, still finding his way in a very alien culture.

It is self-evident he is making little or no progress with his English, that he favours being around Portuguese speakers in training and the like, and probably socially. He is on record as saying his best friend in Liverpool is Firmino from across the park. This hints at his insecurity, a lack in belief in his ability to communicate or socialise comfortably with non-Portuguese speakers.

Silva has done him no favours playing him at #9 for as long as he has, playing the way we have. He is/was getting kicked – like Pele – from pillar to post. He can play that central role, but only if we play like Brazil, keeping it on the carpet and using him as a fulcrum, a pivot, to play one-twos off. NOT lumping the ball forward to him, expecting him to compete with two Orcs at centre-back.

Does he need to man up on the pitch more? Absolutely.

Does he need help and guidance on this question? Absolutely.

Does this make him a bad player? Absolutely NOT!

So, in conclusion, Steve, if Tim Vickery truly has said what you attribute to him, that is not the Brazilian football, footballers, referees I recognize. It most certainly is not a cultural thing, unless you are talking about a 'global culture', rather than a national or regional one.

Steve Ferns
77 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:35:29
Thanks for that, Jay, I remember it slightly wrong. It was about Maradona and so the Argentines. Because it was spoken, rather than written, I cannot remember it correctly, but he said Argentines and the whole continent (maybe Brazil is different) have this thing of "wanting to stick it to the establishment" (my words not his).

If an English player had scored the handball, we'd have crucified him for unfair play and cheating, but the Argentines loved it even more because Maradona conned the referee and the world.

Maybe John Pierce, who likes to ring Vickery up, can ask him the question directly for clarification?

Geoff Lambert
78 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:42:30
Is it the same crew who were calling for our last leading goal scorer to be sold? Shit, can't trap a bag of sand, cry baby, diver.

We have no-one to score our goals as it is and you say "sell him"! The mind boggles sometimes!!

Steve Ferns
79 Posted 16/02/2019 at 14:47:48
Jay, here is a direct quote from Vickery:

Someone he calls "an old South American international" apparently replied (to Bobby Charlton about cracking down on diving): "Don't you think, as a professional, that if we can get away with creating an advantage for our side, we really should be applauded?"

I believe there is more tolerance of this type of behaviour in South America, where showing the cunning necessary to get away with something is widely praised. In Brazil it is often said that beating a big rival with an illegal goal adds extra pleasure to the victory. But before we English try to claim the moral high ground we should forget any notions of perfection?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2008/11/maradona_unfairly_labelled_a_c.html

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

80 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:05:39
Steve, I don't go out of my way to watch Argentinian domestic football. I only watch their teams if they play against Brazilian teams in the continental cups.

And based on that very narrow sample, I again have to say I honestly don't recall being outraged or even annoyed by Argentinian teams or players' exaggerated simulation, or playing the ref. No more than you see every week in Europe.

Naturally, as the two super-powers of South American football, there is always an edge in any Brazil vs Argentina game, be it international or domestic. You can extend that to ALL sports.

The Brazilians would never have lived it down if Argentina won the World Cup in Brazil four years ago, for example.

What I will say about South American football is this: on my travels I always got a game of footy in, be that in Europe, Asia, Africa or Latin America. Now I always liked the physical part of the game, so never blinked or took a step back when the boots were flying.

Without a doubt, the hardest I constantly got tackled was by South Americans. Nothing sly. Nothing dirty. Just honest-to-goodness 'mano ao mano' going for the ball.

And they like to win. A defender's mantra is, the ball or the man may get past me, but not both!

As I say, I like Tim Vickery, but what you attribute to him doesn't resonate with me and what I see here in Brazil.

Steve Ferns
81 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:09:39
So none of this getting "extra pleasure" from illegal goals and no culture of deception towards the referee? That's very interesting, thanks, Jay.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

82 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:19:18
Just read your link which appeared after I posted my last post Steve.

I think Vickery's column of 11 years ago is fair and balanced, highlighting as it does an English player like Martin Peters admitting how he tried to con the ref into giving England a penalty in the vital England-Poland game under Alf Ramsey.

The column isn't as extreme or condemning of South American football as you perhaps portrayed in your post @ 31.

ALL professional footballers use tricks to gain an advantage. I remember talking to Alan Ball at a do years ago and he told me he could seriously foul a player in a game and neither the player nor the referee would have a clue that it was done deliberately.

Naturally, during last year's World Cup, there was wall to wall coverage here in Brazil. As I mentioned already, Brazilians get sniffy and protective of criticism about their country and by and large they closed ranks to defend Neymar.

An evening 'footy round-up' show in answer to the English media's criticism of Neymar showed a reel of sly plays and simulation by English players from one game, England vs Colombia. It made for embarrassing viewing.

"Let he who casts the first stone" 'n all that...

Steve Ferns
83 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:25:51
Depends on interpretation then, Jay, my takeaway was the "extra pleasure" comment. That is not something in the English psyche.
Alan J Thompson
84 Posted 16/02/2019 at 15:32:39
Going back quite some time, British football used to think itself more physical within the rules of the game while ankle tapping, obstruction, spitting and feigning injury was something Johnny Foreigner resorted to.

I've always thought that Argentina particularly produced good strong defenders, my first recollection being Passarella. I'm trying to remember the other Argie against England 1966 that Joe Mercer used to rave about, Rattan was one, but both were admired for their physical side.

However, the slide tackle leaving man and ball in touch, the shoulder charge particularly on an airborne keeper have all disappeared from the game and more and more players go down at the slightest touch or run into tackles to get free kicks.

Gone is the belief that some intent had to be shown particularly when (booking) carding a player and that the penalty was the awarding of the free kick.

Tony Hill
85 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:19:30
Meanwhile, more good news from West Brom, where Holgate continues to excel. We have a serious defensive talent there, very serious, and we should not lose him. An excellent decision to put him out on loan and it looks like paying dividends.

Some think he's a central defender and I'm inclined to agree with them, but he's playing very well at right-back for Albion and Silva will have a big call to make on him and his best position for next season.

Mike Hayes
86 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:41:28
On the Ferguson front, I had heard that as he was bankrupt; Blue-arse Bill gave him a job, so possibly he was told to say nothing.

As a passionate Blue, you'd think he'd be raging at what he's witnessing

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:42:58
Good news, Tony, because I like Holgate and think he could turn into a very good defender. I like him as a centre-back and hope he can build up enough bulk in his body to play there, because he just didn't look strong enough earlier on this season, although the ability is definitely there, so let's hope so.
Tony Hill
88 Posted 16/02/2019 at 17:49:37
You're right, Tony, there's a lot of work to be done but I think he has considerable natural talent. In fact, I think he's a potentially top class international defender. Here's hoping.
Tony Abrahams
89 Posted 16/02/2019 at 18:03:14
Tony@46, maybe that’s right, and if it is then that’s why I’ve always been his biggest critic, because if his hands are tied then they’ve probably been tied since Martinez, gave him his (token?) role with the first team.

My own view is that your hands should only be tied if you are not any good at your job, and if this is the case then you shouldn’t be in the job anyway?

Football can be full of backstabbers, but if you have got good intentions, and speak enough sense, then that should normally be enough to get the right people onside, especially if you have got an aura as big as Duncan’s?

When I was told Ferguson’s hands were tied, I asked why he doesn’t come out and tell us? The reply was “he might have to soon” so something’s wrong either way IMO, because you only get real results when everyone is pulling in the same way, and this can’t be the case at Everton right now, once again.

Tony Hill
90 Posted 16/02/2019 at 18:34:24
That's the absolute key for this club to succeed, Tony. We must have a united dressing room and a united, tough-minded team approach. We must have, to use an unfashionable term, manliness – and I don't think we've had any of that for a very long time. Talent matters but steel in the soul matters more.

If we have trouble behind the scenes of any sort, then Silva and Brands must be men enough to erase it and to make a courageous new start.

Steve Ferns
91 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:03:37
Tony A. If there was something really wrong, ie the manager didn't have the backing of the players we'd know about it.

You would tell your agent. Your agent leaks stuff to the press. The press lap it up and print things with unnamed sources. Your agent uses this to try to gain interest in you so he can get you a move (which is in his financial interest), once a couple of stories leak, the rest also come flooding out.

We've seen it often. Under Moyes when he did lose the players but showed his abilities to get it sorted and put the dressing room back in order. We saw it under Martinez and it led to his sacking, as Lukaku told the club in no uncertain terms that he was off. We saw it frequently under Koeman, even when the going was good. The leaks were more like a river under Allardyce. Yet now, it's deafly silent.

So, Tony, sounds like your mate is chatting shit or Ferguson is.

Would Ferguson be a good coach? To be a good coach you need to be a student of the game and you need to understand it. Does Duncan study the game or understand it? He played you say, well listen to Paul Merson, Charlie Nicholas and Phil Thompson. Those three might have played the game, they might watch a lot of it, but they have not got a clue. My mum knows more about football than those three out together. So having played means nothing.

Is Duncan a student of the game? Most certainly not. This is the guy that once said he didn't even like football and talked at length about never watching a game and spending his time with his pigeons. It is very obvious that Duncan was not a fan of football.

Of course it is feasible that he has rediscovered a passion for football and watches it 24/7, but I doubt it. That's one hell of a personality change.

Coaching is not just about playing five-a-side, eleven-a-side, a few laps of the field, some work in the gym and a few corners.

You need to plan those “spontaneous” movements. You run drills so players learn how to run in different ways to pull a defence apart. And of course the flip side in drilling a defence, working on shape, the line, playing out from the back, and so on. It needs to be varied and fresh.

I don't think Duncan Ferguson is a coach and I certainly don't think he is a manager. If he is, he's had a personality transplant, it's just not in his make-up.

Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:27:41
Why would he be chatting shit Steve? I thought to myself that maybe Silva is changing everything about the club and the way it's been ran for too long because the fella who told me never usually says anything about the club and I never ask him anything for this reason.

He didn't seem happy with Silva, which might be for obvious reasons, or it might be because there is a real wind of change inside the corridors, or it might be because he loves Everton and he thinks the man in charge is not quite good enough?

Anyway, if Moyes was good enough to change once he'd lost the dressing room, then I would suggest it was because he had some real men inside the same walls, which is what we can all see we are really lacking right now?

Back to Phil Thompson, Steve, and to say he knows nothing about football really does amaze me – unless you are just being as biased as him, of course!

Mike Gaynes
93 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:31:38
Tony and Tony, thanks for those updates on Holgate.

There's no doubting his defensive talent. He has blistering pace, quickness off the mark and great sharpness in the tackle.

However, there's no way he can "bulk up" enough to be's Silva's kind of CB -- at six feet and 145 he's Jagielka's height and 20 pounds lighter. Silva likes bridge towers in the middle of his defense.

What I hope is that his time at WBA is helping him improve his previously pathetic passing game enough to eventually challenge at RB. Reportedly he put in a "peach of a cross" for Robson-Kanu's gamewinner today at Villa.

Steve Ferns
94 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:37:22
Fair enough about your mate, Tony. I hear the opposite, but from sources further removed than your own.

Did Moyes change once he lost the dressing room? I recall he bounced all the people who opposed him out of the club. I don't think he changed one bit. If anything, he became more negative and cautious.

Tony, on the subject of Thompson, that guy really is clueless about modern football, and that he was in a management capacity only a decade or so ago is really quite alarming. He might know footballers, defending, and the like, but he has no concept of modern tactics or systems.

Steve Ferns
95 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:40:46
Mike, dunno if you've seen Holgate close up on your trip, but I would say he is more like 6'2". The stats you get on the internet are out of date for me, and probably go back to when he first joined us a young kid. Mason Holgate is certainly taller than Ashley Williams.
Tony Abrahams
96 Posted 16/02/2019 at 19:57:39
I thought the likes of Stubbs and Ferguson were probably both man enough to approach Moyes, and tell him that he/they had a problem, whereas I haven't seen anyone like that at Everton really since Cahill left the club?

Maybe Distin, who got totally bombed out by Martinez, and possibly Lukaku, who always just looked like he played for himself anyway?

Steve, I hear what you say about Thompson regarding modern tactics, but as much as I've got time for Marco Silva, (genuinely) I just see a talented coach maybe, who has definitely started running before he can walk?

I like his concept, but football is just like your own profession Steve, and if you've got no defence, then your just not going to win!

Tony Hill
97 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:01:35
Actually, Mike, his cross for the WBA goal today was pretty average but Robson-Kanu produced a great header. The jury is certainly out, I think he's got a great deal of talent but he's one of those strange players who hovers between positions and that can be damaging in the end.

He needs strong management but he's got a hard side to him which I find promising.

Steve Ferns
98 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:01:36
Tony your definitely right about running before he can walk. I’ve saidnmyself a few times, he needs to get onto the back foot and play some counter attacking football, like he was more than capable of in the past, and grind out a few results. Then with some solid foundations laid he can start to tweak it to become the more expansive game he clearly favours.
Dave Abrahams
99 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:10:13
Jay (82), I wouldn’t mind betting Harry Kane was one of those embarrassing cheats, at it quite a lot and very professional doing it, times his falls and perfects them, he must practice for hours to get them right, pays off for him though and hardly a word against him from the English media.

I wouldn’t want Richarlison to be a professional cheat like him but he has got to stop his antics, he is so naive, doesn’t help him at all.

Darren Hind
100 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:14:36
The first time I saw Holgate play, I said on here that he and John Stones would be England’s centra-back pairing for years. I've seen nothing to change my mind.

I cringed when the shrewd judges on here said he wasn’t good enough because he was out muscled against West Ham... it’s even more embarrassing when you look at the way Keane and Mina have been so regularly rag-dolled.

Stones was hounded out of this club by philistines who wouldn`t know a footballer if he ran across their living room in his muddy boots. Now he looks superb. We can’t let that happen again with Mason.

Steve Ferns
101 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:21:36
Spot on Darren.
Tony Abrahams
102 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:23:16
Casting my mind back to the Brighton home game Steve, and Richarlson’s goal, that came from a Brighton corner, was one of the finest counterattacking goals, I’ve seen from an Everton team.

Just as things started getting good they fell apart, and the fact that the manager hasn’t altered to counter against this, is obviously the biggest worry. I’ve seen signs in the last two games, but tightening us up, has left us even shorter in attack, just now?

I hope this can change, because if he doesn’t make us harder to play against, he’s not going to last, and we definitely need some stability right now.

Darren Hind
103 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:28:21
I see Jay Rodriguez netted his 16th of the season in that match – he'll score more by Easter than any of our players will score this season.
Steve Ferns
104 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:28:50
As I said elsewhere Tony, Silva couldn’t have asked for more time to prepare this game. How we perform should be markedly different and if so, we can all rest easy knowing we have a good coach, and then wait and see if the coaching is enough to make a good manager, which is a different thing altogether.

If it’s more of the same, then yeah, clearly he’s either not a good coach afterall or there’s nothing that can be done by Silva to get a tune out of that group of players.

Tony Abrahams
105 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:49:42
I don't think any amount of time could have prepared Silva for the train-wreck that has been Everton but agree that it won't be long before we find out if he's got enough about him to take us forward, even without a proper centre-forward!

You always said Rodriguez was a good player, Darren, and as much as I agree with you about Holgate, it wasn't that he was getting outmuscled, it was more to do with why he kept getting drawn into this type of contest, when the kid has got much more about him than that?

Tony Hill
106 Posted 16/02/2019 at 20:55:41
I don't think that Cardiff is the acid test for Silva. I want to see how he does next season with better players, to include a centre-forward who can finish. My word – what a difference a goalscorer would make to everything. That and a Captain in midfield.
Don Alexander
107 Posted 16/02/2019 at 23:12:14
To me, Moshiri has set back his own much-vaunted "3-year project", including the new stadium, by a minimum of three years as a result of the signings made since he took over, and their cost. In other words M&M are in an appreciably worse place than was Koeman when he was appointed.

Getting rid of complacent hi-earners in the squad is all but impossible regardless of who the manager is. Their presence at Finch Farm really taints whatever it is that a new management team, any new management team, is trying to imbue there.

Too many players are only interested in one thing, their own pay cheque. Ker-ching! And in my opinion even Guardiola, Cruyff, Clough or Catterick would be treated with disdain at Finch Farm.

Daniel Thomas
108 Posted 17/02/2019 at 11:13:38
I don't post often on here. I enjoy reading many of your thoughts on how we can move the club forward, both on and off the pitch.

I haven't read all the comments in this thread, but those calling for us to sell Richarlison are part of the problem with our club at the moment. Have we learned nothing from Stones, Barkley, Lukaku etc???

When you have a good young player who is wanted by Europe's elite clubs, you keep him. You build a team around him.

Or you know, we could sell him and bring in the likes of Marcus Bent and Stephen Naismith because they work hard and spend less time on the floor...

Christ!!

Dave Ganley
109 Posted 17/02/2019 at 13:34:47
Jay #73,

I don't disagree with anything that you put in your post apart from you implying that we shouldn't take umbrage with the way players come out in the media and openly tout themselves into a move. I still believe that the young players mentioned left because of the football club couldn't, wouldn't and or didn't move on in terms of progression. I totally disagree with Darren that stones was hounded out of the club, stones left because city came calling same way they did for Lescott and whatever else you think about City, there's not many who will shun a chance at league titles or cup triumphs, I just wish we could provide them with it.

Maybe I'm just too much of an idealist because my main issue with players is, when it's all going wrong with the team and we're not playing well, then some of the top players just don't seem interested and become lazy. I made the comparison with those and the likes of Tom Davies. Davies, even when he lost form, didn't lose his will to do well and compete, I'm not sure a lot of the star names do that. They do tend to sulk a lot.

The club as a whole are solely to blame for the way we have fallen and the so-called star names want to leave, not the fans. If they provided the proper infrastructure to make sure the first team was competitive, then it wouldn't be an issue. As it is, they have employed several ill-equipped managers and the results are there to see. It's not bad luck that we have plummeted disastrously this season, it's a culmination of poor managers leaving a poor, unbalanced squad and a manager now who is struggling to turn it around.

I've said before that I have sympathy with Silva as he inherited a lot of the mess but he does have to show more for the remainder of the season. As for the players, well for me, they need to show more desire than they are currently doing. Show some professional pride in your own performance. It should be a given but obviously it's not and the players just can't turn it on and off.

For all everybody extolling Lukaku as a superstar, he struggles at Man Utd, can't get a regular game; same with Barkley. As for Deulofeu, well, he can't do better than Watford. There's no doubting the talent of these players but they should be doing much better than they are. For all his talent, Lukaku and Barkley should be shining lights at top clubs – but they're not – and, for me, that's because of poor attitude. Out of the ones mentioned, there's only Stones who is the real deal because he has the right attitude to go along with great talent.

There will always be the debate about "What if they stayed?" and that would have been wonderful if we had them in their prime. We lacked a proper manager and leader on the pitch to truly benefit from them. I'm not being contradictory by saying that either as, aside from them being guided by a leader, there has to be something from within to keep personal performances high despite playing in a misfunctioning team. Only Stones can say he has that, I'm afraid. I hope that Richarlison proves that he has it too.

Simon Smith
110 Posted 18/02/2019 at 00:25:07
Yes I'm with all the Blues who want Richarlison sold, I'm all for selling our best players!

I mean, the lads 21 years old, our top scorer, and a Brazillian international... We have players like that everywhere throughout the squad, let's sell him! 🤦‍♂️

Alan J Thompson
111 Posted 18/02/2019 at 04:08:29
Daniel (#108); It doesn't make it right and those three players you mention are only the recent sales. Over the years, Everton have sold Dean, Lawton, Mercer, Ball, Lineker, Steven, Stevens, Keown, Beardsley, the list is endless and nearly all not beyond their peak or effectiveness. It's Everton...
Liam Reilly
112 Posted 19/02/2019 at 09:41:57
I swear if we had Messi, Ronaldo and Mbappe in our squad, some on here would want them sold.
Davie Turner
113 Posted 19/02/2019 at 20:50:33
Icardi is on his way out of Inter. Now the chances he would sign for Everton are likely remote, but it would be nice if we can get to a point where signing top players is more newsworthy than selling our best players.

How we can expect to challenge the top 6 in the near future the way we are at the moment I don't know, but in Bernard, Pickford, Digne, Richarlison, with the potential of Lookman, hopefully a settled and up-to-speed Mina we have the start of a decent squad with a number of others that have value too, Siggy and Gueye if he decides to stay.

Even Calvert-Lewin would be a useful squad player with possibly Keane. Vlasic may return wanting to prove a point and, by all accounts, the player we have yet to see, Onyekuru, is doing well and should come to us next season and add to the first team.

But we signed frankly a lot of rubbish, we need to add quality. And well, Icardi would be a nice thought.

Darren Hind
114 Posted 20/02/2019 at 20:06:09
Little bet on Juve to beat Athletico tonight.

Two minutes in and I'm already regretting it

Steve Ferns
115 Posted 20/02/2019 at 20:17:13
Davie, have you seen much of Icardi? How do you figure he would be successful for us, what is it you would envisage him doing that would be worth the £120m and £200k per week wages it would cost to sign him, ahead of the likes of Barca.
Darren Hind
116 Posted 20/02/2019 at 20:30:09
Juve and Athletico locked. City March on
Darren Hind
117 Posted 20/02/2019 at 20:53:09
Correction - City WERE marching on
Steve Ferns
118 Posted 20/02/2019 at 21:01:09
I don’t rate Nabil Bentaleb at all. Shows what I know!
Henry Lloyd
119 Posted 21/02/2019 at 04:55:44
Dean Johnson @2,

I couldn't agree with you MORE. Absolutely right in what you are saying. He is probably the most overrated and certainly overpriced
player I have watched for a long time.

His attitude is appalling and although his workrate may be above average, he always ends up on his arse looking for the referee we don't need him!!

If he was going to Improve? He would have... He hasn't and he isn't going to.

Davie Turner
120 Posted 21/02/2019 at 12:31:26
@Steve Ferns

2016-17 24 league goals 34 appearances
2017-18 29 league goals 34 appearances
2018-19 9 league goals 20 appearances

Despite all the issues this season, he is just off 1:2 and the previous seasons his record is great. We need a striker and I don't see anyone else around at the moment at the right age and record, from watching him for Inter I think he could do very well in the Premier League and well, each of the top6 have far better quality up front than we do, if we want to get there we either have to get lucky with a young one or buy quality and Icardi is quality.

I said I don't think he'd come or even consider, he will no doubt have a number of Champions League sides interested, Barca, Real, Man Utd, Chelsea and maybe from Germany too. But wouldn't it be nice in a year or two if the gossip about Everton was about signing top players rather than Richarlison to Atletico and Gueye to PSG. Still feels that we a Champions League feeder club: Lukaku, Stones, Arteta. Richarlison has done well, he can be frustrating but if we ditch him to the 2nd best club in Spain, why do fans think we will be anything but a mid table also-ran?

Mike Gaynes
121 Posted 21/02/2019 at 14:02:02
"If he was going to Improve? He would have... He hasn't and he isn't going to."

Brilliant, Henry.

Last season at Watford: 41 appearances, 5 goals. A goal every 606 minutes.

This season at Everton: 28 appearances, 11 goals. A goal every 192 minutes.

And that, to you, isn't improvement.

Absolutely brilliant.


Bobby Mallon
122 Posted 22/02/2019 at 05:35:28
At what point did we sell our best players just because. Barkley, stones, especially Lukaku all openly wanted to leave no amount of money was going to make them stay. As for Del Boy he played well for a 3rd of a season the rest he was annoying, another player who threw his toys out most games and now playing for Watford.
Paul Burns
123 Posted 22/02/2019 at 20:52:11
What's the matter with people, he plays and scores for Brazil for fcks sake.
You have to wonder if people on here are Liverpool fans the utter nonsense that appears.
Minik Hansen
124 Posted 24/02/2019 at 03:07:15
Stan #42, I couldn't agree more, this needs to be addressed. I didn't like how they expressed themselves in their last time in being blue, but the fans played their part. I'm all behind Richarlison as long as he is here. He's Brazilian, for Christ's sake... (we've been screaming for such a player).
James Marshall
125 Posted 28/02/2019 at 12:38:17
The Richarlison we're all watching at the moment is a dreadful footballer. Yeah he's scored a few goals this season up front, but as a player he's absolutely shocking. Oumar Niasse level ability, his ball control and in particular his passing, makes Lukaku look like Andrea Pirlo.

The kid has some talent, but his confidence is shot to pieces, and his ability has disappeared with it – same as when he was at Watford.

He runs into defenders when he's one on one, shows zero ability to go past a man, has no tricks, no pace, no fight in him, nothing. Maddening to watch.

The question is, how to get him back to enjoying playing football again because at the moment he looks like he's had enough.

Joe McMahon
126 Posted 09/03/2019 at 18:53:38
Who could blame him, if the offer is there.

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