VIEW FROM THE BLUE
So Near Yet So Far
Way back around the start of this past season, on the back of what was a largely frustrating summer, I predicted that Everton would be hard-pressed to finish successive seasons in the top six. Forget notions of breaking the monopoly of the "Sky 4", I foresaw a tough challenge just repeating the success of the 2006/07 campaign and gaining entry to Europe again.
David Moyes didn't sign his first new player until the first week of July and, at the time, fans were bemused by the inference that Phil Jagielka was the priority of the close season and that all other acquisitions were dependent on landing the utility man from Sheffield United first.
In between inflated soundbytes about the "deal of the century" in Kirkby, CEO Keith Wyness was blathering on about how some transfer windows develop late. Behind the scenes, though, as August dragged on and the new season started without the appearance of the key central midfield signing that was so badly needed, rumours gathered strength that Moyes had made his displeasure at a lack of funds abundantly clear to the Everton Board.
Though that showdown with Bill Kenwright had the desired effect when £20m appeared out of nowhere ? later to be traced to investment from new Director Robert Earl ? for the purchase of Ayegbeni Yakubu and Manuel Fernandes, only the Nigerian striker arrived; Fernandes effected a stunning u-turn and signed for Valencia and Moyes had to make a desperate loan move for Thomas Gravesen, whose career, hot rumour had it, was effectively over due to the state of his knees.
All the while, rival clubs like Tottenham Hotspur, Aston Villa, Newcastle United, Blackburn Rovers, Portsmouth and Manchester City, whose financial resources out-stripped those at Moyes's disposal by varying degrees, were all strengthening at an alarming rate. And as Sven Goran Eriksson's City set the early pace and seemingly set their stall out as the greatest threat to the depressing hegemony of the top four with some stylish attacking football and worrying fortitude at home, it looked as though fears that Everton were being left behind were being realised.
After earning a morale-boosting home win on the opening day and then destroying free-spending Tottenham on their own turf three days later, the Blues stumbled their way somewhat through the next six weeks of the campaign. Yakubu arrived and scored just 10 minutes into his debut at Bolton but not even he, the club's new record signing, could spark the team into any sort of consistency. Had the club missed another opportunity to sufficiently strengthen in all departments in order to compete on, potentially, four fronts?
Turning points in each of the three competitions in which the Blues were involved before Christmas, however, propelled Moyes's side from also-rans in the early going to being seriously talked about by the New Year in terms of surprise Champions League qualification, potential Caring Cup glory, and a possible Uefa Cup Final.
A close brush with another embarrassing elimination from the early stages of the Uefa Cup in the unfamiliar surroundings of Kharkov in Ukraine kick-started a phenomenal club-record run of eight wins out of ten in that competition. On their way out on the away goals rule at the hands of little-known Metalist Kharkiv, late strikes by James McFadden and Victor Anichebe ? the latter a scintillatingly precocious finish ? rescued Everton and sent them into Group A which they went on to win handsomely with a 100% record.
Meanwhile, Tim Cahill returned from a lengthy metatarsal-related absence and scored a vital extra-time winner at Luton Town, part of a 13-match unbeaten run in all competitions that would last two months and feature the best period of sustained passing and attacking football witnessed at Goodison since the 1980s. It was a long time coming but received no less warmly for it.
Indeed, by the time Arsenal came to Goodison Park for the final game of 2007, Everton were being praised in the media for their style and slick passing game, and for 45 minutes they out-passed Arsene Wenger's renowned side, leading the Title hopefuls by a Tim Cahill goal at half time. The reality check that followed in the second half ? the Gunners scored four times to record another emphatic victory ? didn't derail the Blues' charge but it was in line with a wider inability of Moyes's team to cope with the top four.
In all they played ten games against the quartet of Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool over the course of the season but had only a solitary draw, secured at the death at Stamford Bridge with a stunning overheard kick by Cahill, to show for their efforts. Granted, there was controversy in the Goodison derby (where Mark Clattenburg scratched his name into Everton's history of refereeing injustice with a couple of the most revealingly biased decisions ever seen) and a late moment of madness by Steven Pienaar that threw away a point at Old Trafford, but overall ? and the League Cup semi-final second leg defeat by Chelsea in which the Blues never looked like getting past Chelsea's resolute defence was particularly indicative of this ? Everton made the gap between those clubs and themselves look like a yawning chasm by their performances against them.
Nevertheless, as they marched through February undeterred by that Carling Cup disappointment and an ignominious home defeat by Oldham in the FA Cup 3rd Round, the Blues gained a solid foothold in fourth place and looked for all the world as they would make that fourth and final Champions League qualification spot their own at the expense of rivals Liverpool.
That they eventually didn't came down to one salient factor: disruption to a close-knit but dangerously thin senior squad. The African Cup of Nations deprived Moyes of his top scorer in the form of Yakubu, one of his defensive rocks in the form of Joseph Yobo and his signing of the season in the form of Pienaar for six crucial weeks in January and February.
Then, injuries took their toll on key players. Arteta struggled through much of the second half of the campaign with a mysterious and persistent groin and stomach muscle complaint and was a shadow of his former self; Pienaar suffered a training-ground injury prior to South Africa's third and final AFCON game and didn't really recover his form until the final game of the Premier League season; Tim Cahill was struck down by a recurrence of the metatarsal fracture that prematurely ended his 2006/07 campaign at almost the same juncture; and James Vaughan also saw his season come to an unexpected end with a serious knee injury.
Finally, Everton's magical Uefa Cup journey came to an abrupt halt in the most heart-breaking fashion with defeat by Fiorentina on penalties. Having rescued the tie against enormous odds by overhauling a 2-0 deficit from the first leg, the Blues just couldn't find the all-important third goal and decisive spot-kick misses by Yakubu and the otherwise impressive Jagielka condemned them to a painful exit from the Round of 16.
That appeared to be the straw that broke the camel's back. With the wind knocked out of them, the wheels came off Everton's charge for fourth place with demoralising defeats against Fulham and Liverpool and frustrating failures to secure all three points against the likes of West Ham and Birmingham City. Indeed, for a couple of weeks their hold even on fifth place ? the only place that would guarantee Uefa Cup football next season ? was under threat and it took a vital home draw in a "six-pointer" against Aston Villa and a stellar home victory over Newcastle on the final day to secure that important spot.
In the final reckoning, though, Moyes had improved on last season's placing, beaten Everton's previous highest Premier League points haul, and guided the club to a top-six finish for the third time in six seasons. The eight wins the team amassed in the Uefa Cup set a club record, elevated their previously negligible team co-efficient for European competition past the 40-point mark ? that will put us among the seeds for next season's draw ? included a victory at AZ Alkmaar that ended Europe's longest unbeaten home record in Uefa competition, and provided some truly memorable nights for long-suffering supporters. Oh, and his team beat the eventual Uefa Cup winners, Zenit St Petersburg.
The manager also steered the Blues to their first semi-final in a major competition for 13 years, saw them score more than five goals in a game for the first time under his tenure not once but twice, and could also take credit for Yakubu becoming the first Everton player to notch more than 20 goals in a season for almost two decades.
In a League dogged by the dominance of the monied "Sky 4" elite and at a time when Everton's inabilty to compete with the spending power of many of their rivals continues, Moyes achieved all that could realistically be asked of him: he finished "best of the rest".
Debates over his suitability for the Goodison hotseat and the responsibiilty of trying to haul Everton back to the big time would seem absurd to the outside observer and yet Moyes did come in for some sustained and barbed criticism towards the end of the campaign from some quarters (with a good deal of it coming from contributors to this very site, of course) based mainly on the perception that his side faltered at the key moments in the season: they were humiliated in the FA Cup, allowed the chance of a domestic cup final to slip away and stumbled just when fourth place in the Premier League seemed to be within their grasp.
The FA Cup disaster is best forgotten about. In the middle of a punishing schedule, Moyes elected to rest some key players and those who did take the field against Oldham let him down badly. Criticism of the decision failed to take into account the fact that even a below-strength Everton line-up should have been able to take care of a team from League One.
In the case of the Carling Cup defeat to Chelsea there were, to these eyes, mitigating circumstances. Steven Pienaar was, controversially, called up to join South Africa for pre-tournament training on the eve of the first leg ? a game which Arteta and Osman also missed through suspension and injury respectively ? and all three of Everton's AFCON players were absent for the second.
Had Joleon Lescott not inadvertantly headed into his own goal in stoppage time at Stamford Bridge, things may have been different in the return leg at Goodison but, as it was, Everton proved singularly unable to penetrate a resolute Chelsea rearguard all game and had to watch as Tottenham Hotspur turned Avram Grant's side over at Wembley the following month.
Moyes's comments following the Goodison leg as he attempted to explain the difference between the two teams were telling. The words "maybe it's money" may have been delivered as an off-the-cuff aside but for me they articulated the manager's frustrations at having come up against a team financed with Roman Abramovich's millions and had his team's short-comings made starkly clear before his eyes.
Plenty of people disagreed with me at the time ? not least my colleague, Mr Kenrick ? but for me it was resources ? or the lack thereof ? that were the key differentiator. At the end of the day, the powers of motivation are finite and a team can "punch above its weight" for a while ? and then only when it's firing on all cylinders ? but if you come up against one of the top four on the top of their game (or close to it), you are going to come off second best. Granted, there were opportunities to be more aggressive in the first leg and perhaps Moyes played safe with a strategy of containment knowing that he was missing some key personnel but, in the end, quality overcame grit.
The collapse in Premier League form after the Uefa Cup exit and, perhaps more appropriately, the manner of it, was the real catalyst for a backlash against the tactics employed by Moyes and the brand of football his team employed during what was, in the final recknoning, the worst run of form of the season.
For having propelled themselves into fourth position and become the media's favourites to clinch fourth place for the second time in three years, the wheels came off the Blues' challenge in the most infuriating fashion. Gone were the silky passing moves, the swagger, and the impressive scorelines, replaced instead by a horrific lack of ideas, imagination and penetration and a return of the reliance on kick-and-hope hoofball which had the predicted result.
Between the Uefa Cup exit and a welcome return to style and incision on the last day against Newcastle, Moyes's Everton won just one of eight games, surrendering all hope of pushing Liverpool for the final Champions League qualifying place in the process. Awful performances at Fulham and Anfield and at home against the likes of West Ham and Derby were indicative of a team that really had lost its way.
Ultimately, of course, the buck stops with Moyes and there some who felt that he had hit his own glass ceiling and that it was time to replace him. I've been critical of our Davey in the past but I was not among them and still regard him as both the club's best asset off the field and the best manager that Everton, in our current situation, could hope to attract.
That is to take nothing away from Moyes who has done an impressive job at Goodison since taking over from Walter Smith six years ago. For me, the "look where we've come from, don't your remember the dark days under Walter" refrain hasn't held much water since Moyes steered us to fourth in 2005 as that should be his personal yardstick [Yes, it owed as much to Liverpool's failings that year as it did to a terrific team and work ethic and a spectacular run of form before Christmas by the Blues, but a team that was clearly inferior to the current crop remains the only side to have cracked the Sky 4 so far this century.] but his achievements and longevity tell their own story.
The key, as brief pretenders like Reading (in their first season up), West Ham, Blackburn and even Tottenham have found, is consistency, and with three top-six finishes in four years Moyes looks to finally have found some ? at least when looking at successive seasons as a whole ? at Everton.
He has built the core of an impressive squad with some quite brilliant acqusitions and, for a few glorious weeks before Christmas months this past season, got them playing some mouth-watering football. 13 games unbeaten before Christmas had some pundits describing them as the real deal and an unbeaten start to 2008 in the League that stretched into mid-March seemed to confirm that.
The final piece of the puzzle, however, will be consistency across a nine-month season and that requires the kind of stability that only sufficient squad numbers can provide. The loss of Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and to some extent Vaughan, vital cogs in Everton's attacking machine, were key, as was Fernandes' painfully slow re-acclimatisation to English football; had Moyes been able to bolster the squad as he surely would have liked in January ? the days of "Dithering Davey" appear to be long gone ? then he may have had the resources to weather the storm of disruption that plagued the second half of the campaign and pushed his squad through a crisis of confidence after the Fiorentina heart-break.
As the gaffer found in 2005/06, when quick exits from the Champions League qualifiers and the Uefa Cup, at the hands of Villarreal and Dinamo Bucharest respectively, sent his players reeling into a slump in form that saw them sink to the bottom of the League table like a stone, the sudden evaporation of a dream for which you have worked so hard as a team can have a dangerously and virulently demoralising effect. The impact of that penalty shoot-out defeat to La Viola, coming as it did after an incredible night of heroism, determination, and unity of purpose, is hard to underestimate in the post-mortem of 2007/08.
Again, it was Moyes's failure to pick his players up and regroup them for the unfinished business of the Premier League but by then the disruption of injuries and fatigue ? both mental and physical ? were taking a heavy toll. It shouldn't excuse the perplexing tactics and the mundane football that was passing for entertainment at times towards the end ? especially as they suddenly morphed back into a passing team for the final two games of the campaign against Arsenal and the Toon ? but it should at least be viewed in the context of what was a long season for a squad ill-equipped to cope with the 50-odd games they ended up playing.
Assuming Moyes is still Everton manager at summer's end ? and it would be suicide, in my opinion, if everything isn't done to keep him ? then the way forward is clear. The boss needs to be given the warchest he needs to add more class to a team lacking both a balance in quality and sufficient depth of the standard of players required to make a concerted push to break the "skyopoly" at the top.
Lee Carsley's departure merely increases the urgency with which we need to find his long-term replacement, while a domineering, central midfielder, the like of which we have lacked for too long now, still remains elusive. Just as crucial is the need for an attacking midfielder in the Kanchelskis mould who can terrorise defences, score goals and address the glaring lack of pace in the Blues' mid-section.
And there's the rub... the kind of investment in players required may now be beyond the current Board. Making ends meet from transfer window to transfer window by all means available ? loan deals, the Rooney sale, borrowing against future Sky money ? the Kenwright regime finally reached the point last August where money had to be found from somewhere outside the club or there was no hope of competing on multiple fronts in the 2007/08 season.
That money eventually came from new director Robert Earl ? although the increasingly accepted wisdom is that the money came from a fund in the Planet Hollywood tycoon's name but that the readies actually came from Sir Philip Green, longtime friend of Kenwright and generous loanee to the Everton cause in recent years. Now, with Green's eyes wandering to his native London and in the direction of Tottenham Hotspur and Earl rumoured to be eyeing the exit door himself now that Destination Kirkby is under mounting opposition, Blue Bill could find himself in something of a bind.
The blueblood Kenwright and canny Moyes combination has got us tantalisingly close to the holy grail of the Champions League with a measured and painstaking rebuilding job but looks to be agonisingly short of making the final leap. As new investment continues to flood into rival clubs and transfer fees soar ever higher, the dream could be getting further away with each passing season.
No surprise, then, that talk of a billionaire sugar daddy is back on the agenda among fans for whom the glass ceiling between fourth and fifth became painfully apparent these past few months. The very real danger in getting what you wish for there, of course, is not getting what you expect ? a Randy Lerner versus a Thaksin Shinawatra, for example. The right new emperor could be the catapult to send us back to the big time... or it could spell catastrophe for Everton as we know it.
May you live in interesting times, they say. Well, it's never a dull moment where our beloved Blues are concerned.
Reader Comments
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Agreed, we are living in very interesting times. COYB.
The simple thing for me this summer is that I feel better and more optimistic about next season than I did in the last. I do think though that just like the contract extensions for Arteta & Cahill were crucial last season, so is Moyes this season. The board must do whatever it takes to keep him. With limited resources he has built a squad that I am very proud of as an Evertonian, and I think he deserves the right to finish what he has started.
Intelligent and concise.
And I agree with Stefan on Anthony Newell. I have not seen or heard of anyone available who could do a better job than DM.
No body is perfect mate,
What Lyndon has correctly pointed out, is that, Moyes is the best Manager we could hope to have at this moment in time. The facts dont lie, we have turned full circle since he has taken charge.
You only have to read some of the other Forums from rival fans.... the vast majority would give thier left nut to have Moyes at the helm.
For the faults that Davey has there is also many positives, the grass aint always greener.
I can think of many times when I have been fuming with Moyes tactics, mainly Spurs at home springs to mind, but lets be fair to the guy, things like this are becoming few and far between. He is young himself and is getter better as grows with HIS team.
In the whole, the change has been nothing short of amazing and the progress and been steady and consistent.
I just hope now that the board back Moyes to the hilt and give him the chance to prove what he can do with a decent amount of Money and a team which would now seem as an attractive proposition to perspective players.
If we dont, you can bet your arse that the West Hams and Newcastles?s etc, Will!
In Moyes I trust, whether you do is up to you Chief.
It just sums it all, really!
We?ve had very dubious tactical decisions all season from Moyes; Playing three centre halves when in reality Baines should be on, and Jags on the bench; Playing three up front against an unknown European team; playing Phil Neville at all; not getting the midfield players in that we clearly needed etc etc
And if you two can?t see that then I?m afraid that you are the ones who are removed from reality.
Spot on Anthony Newell, Moyes needs to improve some of his tactics too.
DM has done a great job but also a greater job is required to keep over ever improving momentum going.
You are entitled to your opinion, but what I find distasteful is comments like "Grow some Balls" when it is obvious that he has shown he has them and I think you two need to grow some common sense and not resort to typical childish one-liners.
You are so wrong.
Moyes is the best thing that has ever happened to Everton. It’s people like you, stuck in 1985/6/7 and not in touch with the now.
We are miles away from Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd. On our day we can give them a game, but overall we can’t compete. And why should we think we can??? They have spent Billions on a team. So that, in turn equalls us being so far behind them. I was disappointed with the result and with the way we played against Chelsea. It was a semi final. So close. But it was not Moyes. We need more quality. But Moyes is getting us there.
Has anyone ever seen him bend over - the sun could really shine out there?
Lescott played left back because we lack height and strength at set pieces, Phill Neville is the 3 best crosser in EPL and decent at right back, he was plyed in the middle because of the injuries we had; because of our lack of money Moyes was able to bring only Fernandes on loan in January - you see its easier just to say Moyes is negative, boring, coward instead of backing your opinion with some facts and analysis.
I can tell you one thing if DM is gone this summer in December all of the deluded NSNO horde will be screaming we were better with Moyes but it will be too late.
All EPL managers are praising Moyes and the job he has done and how they want to emulate him yet somehow few people come here proclaiming NSNO as if only this slogan will bring the trophies and glory.
I suggest all of you to wake up and smell the coffee - its a testament of Moyes work that with players like Carsley,Hibbert, Osman,Neville - unfashionable but very, very reliable we managed to finish 5-th and were denied by dodgy refereeing decisions even 4-th.
Moreover Moyes qualified Everton in Europe for 3-rd time in the last 4 seasons, when was the last time that happened?
However back your opinions with some facts to be able to defend your points and discuss the matter, not with some hollow,empty, cheap words without any substance
Keep it up Lyndon. Quality poster.
the only game I can accuse Moyes for being negative this season is the Carling Cup first leg at the Bridge, where he could and should push for the killer blow.
The second leg at Goodison when Chelsea came clearly for 0-0 and played with 10 men behind the ball it was the lack of quality that was our undoing, people may accuse Moyes of not starting with 2 up front but sadly Vic is not and will never be up to the standard required.
Moyes played one up front against Chelsea at home (a tie that we were already down in and needing us to take the initiative) - FACT
It took approx 70 minutes of an ineffective Johnson, balls pumped over his head aplenty and after conceding to change from negative/ defensive to attack - FACT
Tottenham took on Chelsea, had a go at them and won - FACT
The facts are all there for you so I’m afraid your talking out your arse now mate, nothing personal
Where did Spurs and Portsmouth finish??? Below us. I don’t think that we are a defensive team. Moyes plays to strength. So, to answer your question; we will do what Moyes thinks is best. IF BK backs Moyes with the money to improve the squad so we don’t have to play P.Nev then we will have a team that doesn’t include P.Nev.
The problem is Moyes reads things like this forum. I want everyone get behind our manager. He is the best manager for Everton. He is Everton through and through.
We want to improve, but we can only improve as the squad improves. It is naive to think that Moyes is going to buy Wayne Routledge and turn him into Christiano Ronaldo!!! Tactically I don’t know what you want him to have done with the players we have got and with the money we have to spend.
Against Fioentina we showed we are an attacking team. But I just don’t understand why so many people think that we can just turn up with the same tactics against the Big Boys.
Patience my friend. It will happen.
You and Tosev won?t have anything said against the manager, that?s the issue here.
I wont lose my sleep about it.
Anthony,
on the bench we had Anichebe and unfit Vaughan, I dont know what do peoples see in Anichebe but for me he is very average and havent contributed anything whenever he was called upon for the last 5 months - poor first touch, lazy, unmobile, lacking awareness about the game play, slow to react, missing chances etc
In fact show me one occasion in 2008 when he came and made impact, Spurs are playing two up front but they have Berbatov and Keane - huuuuge difference and we were missing our ACN players at the time. I will state it again if we can blame Moyes for something it will be the first leg not the second
now your talking bullshit, Rangers had a go at Fiorentina WTF? They played both games with 11 men behind waitng for penalties ;with total shots 29-8 for Fiorentina and 34-66% possession for Fiorentina at Ibrox - they had a real go, I’m telling you
Shame about the bickering follow ups.
I think Anthony Newell’s point about DM’s assistant is well made. I’ve read that Steve Clarke from Chelsea may be a possibility and this would be an excellent appointment - someone who is used to winning and can perhaps bring that mentality to the club, rather than us having the notion that being best of the rest is adequate.
Portsmouth played defensive football against Man U for 90 mins at Old Trafford, got away with what?s been described as a stonecold penalty and scored with a pen of their own. It really was complete anti-football.
I?m all for talking about ways to improve etc but to say that Portsmouth have shown that you can take on the big teams and win is clearly talking out of your arse. Curiously do you agree with this?
Also blatantly misleading is referring to fact he only played 1 up front as an indication that he?s boring / negative. It?s out of date to say that?s defensive; we ? like Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool ? play our best attacking football with one up front. Our rough patch at end of season when we were crap was largely with 2 up front.
And Tottenham, despite buckets full more money than us, finished way way way below. How can you explain this given that they?ve had more money and according to you have the better attidude? I would suggest it?s because our manager is better.
I?m not saying Moyes is perfect nor that he can?t improve but I think given budget etc he?s the best in England behind Wenger. And to be fair it?s a lot easier for Wenger to attract the quality players.
Saying that we want him to improve, that is IMO a bit churlish: like saying to be a great player Ronaldo needs to improve his tackling
I never thought I?d say this but the thought of losing Davey Moyes is unthinkable. He may not please ALL of the fans ALL of the time but the man has a blue heart and commands respect inside and outside the football club with his dignified and principled approach.
If forthright language offends you so much can i suggest sticking to the beano or some other non-offensive magazine for sensitive men.
stefan,
Lescott is played at left back because moyes doesn’t want to upset anybody by dropping jags...to suggest that we are at a detriment whenever Baines plays is not backed by any evidence whatsoever, in fact Jags is hardly jessie the giant!
Secondly, I don’t know what drugs you’re on to suggest that Phil Neville is the 3rd best corsser in the premiership...but watching any game will tell you that he a liability in any position on the pitch.
Thirdly, I’ve no idea why you’re implying that anyone on here is suggesting that Moyes should go....perhaps you’ve got reading difficulties..or maybe you’re just looking for an argument...
But can i suggest winding ones neck in?
You can?t go out and play excellent football and win against Sky?s top 4. We don?t have the players to do it. But we shouldn?t be afraid to have a go. In the end quality always shines through.
Considering the lack of funds available to Moyes I think his done a excellent job, with one hand tied behind his back. Imagine any of us trying to do our jobs without the tools!! If the Board back Moyes and he gets the players he wants, I think the good football will come. But if the Board don?t back him this summer I think he?ll walk. He may honour his contract and then leave.
None of us can really judge Moyes unless he has had serious financial backing. Yeah he has his flaws. Maybe that's down to quality and quantity available to him. The man has improved a lot in the last 6 years. If your looking for some one to blame then it?s the board you should be having ago at.
well if you cant see that we need height and Moyes stated that this one of the main reason for Lescott beeing played out of position, I cant do anything about it.
As for Neville you can check OPTA stats and Actim index, as I said the NSNO brigade are using hollow words without any substance in it.
As this is getting boring I suggest to close the Moyes thread for now
With Arteta, Cahill, Vaughan, Pienaar, Johnson and Yakubu all unfit or off-form, we really did limp over the finish line. Now we’re 2 down in Carsley and Fernandes...... it was already a squad light on numbers of quality players. This summer is vital, minimum has got to be 3 talented midfielders.
Anyway, congratulations and thanks to Moyes and his squad for bringing us European football yet again (I’m getting used to this!).
Last thing, Stefan T - what an over the top response to Anthony N’s comment!! I think we can all see that Moyes hasn’t got it right in some big games (and not so big ones) this year. I totally agree with Anthony in that Moyes needs to step up, as well as bringing in higher pedigree players.
Moyes is undoubtedly the best man for Everton in the coming seasons. But at the same time, the 4-3-3 that nearly cost us UEFA football, the negativity over BOTH legs of the Carling Cup semi, the total inability to create against the top-4.... all problems that he needs to crack for next season. To say otherwise is accepting second best and is much less than the man himself will be happy with.
P.S. Keep battin at that crease, Anthony; shades of Graham Thorpe.
(* No greater compliment than when the hob-nobs come out)
And i?ve had about enough halfwitted reliance on actim stats than any man can take!
I tell you what, how about actually watching the lad play and basing a decision on the SUBSTANCE of his displays.... and try making that decision yourself... it?s very enlightening!
p.s Demanding the thread be closed, is probably the most puerile response to a contrary opinion I?ve ever had the misfortune to witness.
I?m really pro-Moyes; think he?s really absolutely brilliant. Re Baines; he has looked incisive and high quality when he?s played at left back. Think Moyes saw an opportunity to get a quality increase to the squad and took it. The height is surely a factor, hopefully if we can increase it elsewhere in the squad we will see more of Baines. It?s a tough call not to play Lescott there though with 10 goals.
Re Neville: I agree that he?s infuriating to watch and seems to constantly mess up attacking moves. Worst ball-player on our books (along with Hibbo) and would be great if we could replace him with someone better who still had captaincy skills.
I appreciate your point, but when you consider there is only 2½ inches between Baines and Jags, along with the fact that Baines is like a salmon at times, then I believe the height factor is tenuous in the extreme...
There's absolutely nothing wrong with adding to the squad when you can afford too... but we can?t; we need to be improving our First XI and in my opinion Yobo is a far better player than Jags who I think has a detrimental effect on our game as he has a massive reliance on hoofball when under pressure.
Lescott?s best postion is the centre (where he scores those goals too), which is another bad effect of keeping three centre-halves happy in a starting eleven..
But hey, I don?t make the decisions.. the boy with the red hair does... and the wrong ones seem to be getting less frequent, so long may it continue.
But let's not be under the false impression that he doesn?t have a long way to go!
Roberto Carlos?
Ashley Cole?
Gael Clichy?
You dont have to be massive to be a good left back!
I agree with Anthony Newell’s suggestion that DM needs to improve and get a smart assistant. In fact, I think it is a vital next step in our climb up the ladder. I have been advocating it since March this year. Look at how important Quiroz (spelling?) is to Sir Alex Ferguson as an assistant.
I think a continental assistant manager would help DM with tactical inputs, substituions, etc, especially in the European games.
In fact, as anyone who’s ever coached a team will tell you, what would have been much worse would have been to go out and play open attacking football against teams who are better than us at that kind of football and score a large proportion of their goals on the counter attack.
It’s incredibly destructive of team morale to get completely outclassed by a team, and that is the risk you are taking.
As long as we have the players we have, and they have the players they have, we have to keep those games tight and give ourselves a chance of nicking a point or a rare win. This season we only got one point but we should have got a point v Liverpool, and possibly at Man U and/or at Arsenal. I’d suggest that the result of more expansive tactics would more likely be 0 points, negative goal difference and big hits to team confidence.
Not very romantic, but good managers with limited resources play the percentages.
To persue one of the above response thread tangents, how about this formation (3 at the back) to combat the height issue?:
-----------------HOWARD------------------
---------------------JAGS--------------------
--YOBO-------------------------LESCOTT
ARTETA--NEW MF LYNCHPIN-PIENAAR
------CAHILL---OSMAN-----
----YAK-----VAUGHAN----
Why are you so desperate to see Baines in the team ?
Lescott is better in the air, better defensively , scores more goals and gets forward well.
Jags is a great defender and has had a brilliant season.
Stop worrying about Baines we don’t need him.
I like your formation certainly very attacking, trouble is would moyes employ it against the sky 4?
secondley and this is the point Lyndon was making our first choice eleven is as good as anything outside the sky4, but its not always on the pitch at the same time, and we need the players who can come of the bench without weaking the side!
2p worth from a deluded NSNO.
Lescott is without doubt an effective fullback but he has his limitations. He lacks agility being such a big man which makes him look clumsy at times. If he’s surrounded by players he doesn’t have the trickyness to get away from them. He’s at his best when he’s allowed to run in a straight line and power past people. Sadly he’s not always aloud to do that as there is alot of twisting and turning needed.
If we want to play better football then Baines is the man to use at left back with Lescott alongside Yobo or Jags. Baines isn’t a bad defender either which is a bonus.
On the height issue its not that Baines is to small its the fact the the team as a whole is on the small side. Moyes is more worried about set pieces. Baines hasn’t been beaten at the back post so you couldn’t say it was from open play. Baines naturally would be on the front or the back post at set pieces but because of our lack of height he’s had to mark 6ft plus attackers which isn’t the way to go.
One Moyes adds height to the team which he will Baines will be able to kick on and we won’t have to worry about corners and set pieces.
I could see why Moyes persisted with Lescott because you get the benefit of having three centre backs in the side but when things were going badly towards the end of the season, that lack of agility, finesse on the ball and crossing ability that Baines provides was all too apparent for me.
I’d like us to start putting out our best available XI from front to back far more often than we did last season, and that includes having enough midfielders that we don’t need to play Neville there!
Previous posters have talked about Baines but missed one of his best strengths which is the ability to put a decent cross into the box,something we have lacked.
His size may be an issue for some but he’s within a centimetre of Tony Hibbert and Phil Neville.
As regards Jags,very committed team player much in the John Terry mould and great for last ditch blocks but, for me, not nearly enough class on the ball to warrant an automatic spot in the first team.
However as a lot of our (4) midfielders prefer central MF it may well be that Moyes may well surprise us with a quality right wingback type and play 3-5-2 next season.
Re: The enigma that is Phil Neville- I think some of us have become overly enfuriated with him having watched him play in midfied. Amittedly, he suffers some of the same afflictions as Hibbert but the guy IS a half decent right-back. Not world class but that position is hardly our biggest concern.
Re: The people that keep suggesting a 3-5-2 - how many teams in the Premier League have played this formation even once this year? It is an outdated system, please drop it. Cheers,
He may not be everyone’s cup of tea but no one can doubt his consistency and the high standard of his defending. Whoever plays at the back next season will do a good job. I will have no problems if Jags kept his place in the team next season as I know he can do an excellent job but I would like to see Baines.
I think its more Yobo v Jags than Jags v Baines. With a tall midfielder and hopefully a tall right back coming in Baines position should be cemented. Jags v Yobo will be interesting. Going across all the Everton websites its pretty much 50-50 of who people prefer. Some like Yobo and some like Jags. It’ll be very interesting.
Great defender, but when in games that matter he always seem to get on the wrong side of opposing strikers. Yobo-Lescott pairing for me.
im desperate to see baines in the team for several reasons...firstly he’s an awesome wing back who can actually play football, secondly, lescotts best position is centre half and thirdly, Jags is not as good as people think he is...he makes rash challenges in dodgy positions all the time, often turns his back on the ball and more often than not plays the long ball!
Primarily its about playing your best XI in their best positions!
and we don’t seem to be doing that.
Jags is certainly not the best defender at this club....in fact he makes a hell of a lot of positional mistakes and rash challenges...
Anyone defenders who turns their back on a striker with the ball is NOT a great defender. Your way off target with that assessment.
The Summer will see the Sky 4 teams strengthen again way beyond our capacity and it is quite likely any three of Villa, Man City, Newcastle and Spurs will outspend us. Who wouldn’t settle for 5th again next season if they were offered it now! I do wonder if Moyes will leave because of the fans’ frustration at the difficulty in taking our club to the next step, if it continues to stay the same tilting at windmills is all we can hope for.
We don?t seem to be playing our best 11 in their best positions because of injuries to many of that best 11.
Not because the manager is inept and doesn?t have a clue.
Thats not saying he’s the best all round defender though. My first choice partnership would be Yobo-Lescott as they are also good defenders but are also better athletes and better on the ball. Saying this though I’m not going to deny Jags isn’t a good player and excellent back up. He is and I don’t see how anyone can doubt him.
I prefer my defenders to know where the opposing players are , rather than having to sniff them out!
However, i think we’re on the same wavelength in the end!
We are specifically discussing the back line...and the fact that we were not playing our best players at the back in the second half of the season...was absolutely nothing to do with injury...
Baines is the future left back. But in the future we will have some height in the midfield!!!
Stefan Tosev: i’m pretty much with you re: Big Vic’s lack of influence. I do remember one match, however, when it seemed that his introduction swung the momentum. In the league match at Stamford Bridge Yakubu had been shiftless and anonymous for 70 minutes. Anichebe’s presence as substitute appeared to unsettle the Rooskies back line, and caused them to play deeper. This led, imo, to Jamie Mac finding the room to deliver the shot from which Cahill scored.
Connor Rohrer: Jamie Carragher a good defender? You’re joking, right?
Jay Harris: You nailed it. A consistent feature of DM’s Everton has been the post-February collapse. I did the math on this one round about the time Dean Ashton scored at Goodison and the numbers don’t lie. Moyes won as many games after March 1st(4) in his first season as he has done in any since. Obviously, lack of squad depth is a contributing factor, but I have to wonder if his motivational skills begin to wane once Spring is in sight. Can’t wait for August.
I do enjoy dogged defending when up against superior opposition, heavy rain and snow, or when the shit hits the fan. Players need to act like men and stand up and be counted. Hibs, Cars, Weir, Stubbs, Rhino. Sexy eh! But that’s exactly the position where we don’t want to be in the first place. We are not Wigan, Brum, Stoke or Hull. We want to be in the top tier teams of the Premier League. We want quality above endeavour and that means quality on the ball, quality in positioning, quality in defending.
Jags in the Terry mould? Like what, in endeavour? So do half the crap English defenders in the bottom half of the table. Bulldog spirit my arse. If Jags was built as strong and could jump as Terry yeah, but he gets out-muscled by Ashton?
I am sure Jags is a lovely bloke, great in the dressing room blah blah stick your choice of disclaimer here but we need to be moving away from gungho last ditch lunges. If it’s because he’s more vocal than Yobo and Lescott then simply introduce more karaoke sessions and soon Yobo will be barking out the orders and Lescott motivating the troops.
We did get Jags on a free though.
Reasoned replies - Anthony Newell is quite correct in my view, then the shit hits the fan from Stefan and others again.
Can people not read articles through and see the point the author is trying to make before posting personally abusive replies.
My take on Lyndon and Anthony Newall’s items are :- very good season on balance, could be better with a little more boldness from Davey.
Stefan appears to be the other half of a Jekyll and Hide with our old friend Tony Marsh.
I think Toffeeweb should arrange a Charity boxing match between them so they can take out their angst on each other instead of well meaning fellow Evertonians.
By the way, re:Jags, when was £4/5 million re-classified as free ??????
However I would like to know how much fact there is in what he says about available funding last summer, where it comes from and so on. Links made between Mr Green, Mr Earle and speculative references to loans made over the years have never been confirmed as far as I know.
The danger in restating this speculation as ’fact’ is that the real truth is ignored or lost. In point of fact we will probably never know the real truth - not as entertaining but considerably more substantial.
But here lies the problem - I suspect Moyes’s personal ambition is to obtain that 4th place next season and he realises that if we dont, neither he nor I suspect the likes of Lescott,Yakubu,Arteta and whatever quality player(s) he manages to persuade to join us this summer will be around for the 2009/10 season. They will all want the guarantee of playing in the CL not perhaps just a chance.
What this means is that for starters he needs at least £20-30m this season and even more for the 2009/10 season if he succeeds in obtaining 4th next season and gets us into the CL.
I suspect this is one of reasons he has delayed his contract signing until August - he needs to see the money!!!.
If you look at the income levels of the current Top 4 we then need to double our £53m to £100m to compete CONSISTENTLY . To do that Everton need either the new Stadium to be on time on cost - a Government call-in on planning completely destroys that route or they need substanial outside investment, which I suspect they need anyway to get us to compete 2008/9/10 and to support the finances for the stadium.
What a MAKE or BREAK summer this will be !
Yobo for all his strengths isn’t a great out and out defender. Anyone who watched him against Fiorentina away and Metalist away could see he has a tendency to flap under pressure. If a teams piling us under pressure which is very likely occasionly I’d much rather have someone like Jagielka than Yobo in the team. Its about having a good mix of player and there are some games Jagielka will be suited to and some he’s not.
You say he lacks quality but so do Yobo and to a lesser extent Lescott. None of them are ball playing centre halfes and all have a tendency to boot long under prsssure. Have a look at there passing stats. There all very similar. Jags has a tendency to boot the ball out of play whereas Yobo somoetimes looks like he’s got banana feet. Not a big difference.
I have no problems with people prefering Yobo and Lescott. I do myslef but I have a problem with people who completely dismiss Jags after the season he’s had and the character he’s shown after becoming a bit of a boo boy.
Considering Jags has very little experience at our level and Yobo?s been with us for years now, I came away from that game remembering Yobo?s blunder more than his. I?d still prefer Yobo to Jags, at this point, but all things considered Jags did fairly well in his first season with us... really not much different than Yobo?s first, to be honest, and with more pressure to perform considering when he was thrust in and the general state of the club at the time each arrived.
In the end I think Jags is going to find his best spot where we now have a vacancy.... defensive mid. If he can cut down his tendency to punt upfield and start concentrating on his short passing game, he can flourish there.
Our patient progress of the last 4 years means that cash is now the issue if we are to progress that next step into the Top 4. I expect to see a couple of big signings, but also it would be most unlike Moyes to not bring in a few unexpected rough diamonds to polish in the Cahill, Pienaar, Arteta, Lescott mould ? that quartet cost barely £10M!
It was an exciting season, my personal favourite being the away trip to Nuremberg.
One other thin; we are not the only team this century to break into that Top 4. Newcastle made third in 2002-03 and did it with a great Manager in Sir Bobby Robson and no fear of the big name Teams. That?s what we need just a bit more of next season. and something that Moyes can improve upon.
NSNO (feels like it means something to the club again)
A useful reminder of much that was good last season and a rejoinder to those who disparage Toffeeweb for negativity.
And yet.... whilst reading your upbeat account I found myself wondering: why didn?t I enjoy it more than I did?
Partly, I think it?s because I?m still unhappy with the style of football we play the majority of the time (I?m in the Kenrick camp on this one); partly because of the Kirby fiasco; and partly it?s because of the way football is going generally.
I think I feel an article of my own coming on...
I?ve seen the Wimbledon games, I?ve seen the Coventry games, one of the first matches I ever went to was the Coventry - cushions on the park - game.
You?ve got to realise we?re going through magical times at the minute but sometimes it?s going to hurt. Being an Evertonian means it?s gonna hurt more times than it doesnt. I?ve barracked Moyes and killed him and hated him, but he?s given me much more pride in my side than I?ve ever felt - and that includes the glory years.
The club is ?your average club? in the Premiership. But it?s ours, so it should do better. Moyes is an arsehole. But Moyes is a god. Kenwright?s a tit, but Kenwright has put us on the even keel. Rocky?s an Evertonian. But Rocky?s not an Evertonian. It?s swings and roundabouts.
We?re all Blues, but no matter what we think we?re not Man U, Chelsea or Arsenal. Basically because of investment. But we?re owned locally. I think we?re better off than Liverpool!
Take care.


1 Posted 28/05/2008 at 05:47:27
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