VIEW FROM THE BLUE
An Echo from the Much-Missed Past
Comments (46) : For a club boasting Everton's FA Cup traditions ? five trophies and, until recently, the most semi-final appearances of any English club ? making the Fourth Round of the world's oldest and most famous knockout competition should be a formality. Recent history, and particularly that under David Moyes, however, has made progressing beyond the Third Round if not something of an achievement, then at least a relief.
So, having side-stepped the open manhole-cover represented by Macclesfield Town and watched Liverpool safely negotiate their way past potential embarrassment at Preston North End, it felt like a perverse and cruel inevitability that having cleared the first hurdle for the first time in three years, the Blues would not only be pitted against the Dark Side in the next round but be drawn away at Anfield. Such is the so-called "luck of the draw."
It seems odd to think, though, that there hasn't been a Merseyside derby outside of the League for 18 years. Time was, in the mid- to late-1980s and the very early 1990s when Liverpool's Blue and Red giants were regularly clashing in Cup competitions, often in the Final itself.
In hindsight, however, it's almost as if the Titanic tussle in the FA Cup Fifth Round in 1991 that saw Everton emerge victorious after a second replay and heralded the end of the Kenny Dalglish era at Anfield was the last explosive chapter of an era dominated by the Mersey duo.
The fixture circumstances behind that tumultuous tie were similar to the derby double-header that looms later this month (though Evertonians will hope the Premier League result is very different). The two teams met in the League, with the Reds winning 3-1 at Anfield, before meeting on the same ground in the FA Cup eight days later where neither side could score, forcing a replay at Goodison Park just three days after that.
Four times Liverpool led that replay and four times Everton came back, capping one of the most thrilling games the Old Lady has ever witnessed. In those days, of course, before Sir Alex Ferguson and his ilk whingeing about the impact of fixture congestion on his players, there were no penalty shoot-outs to decide FA Cup replays. Instead, second or even third replays ? the venue decided by coin toss ? were required until one team could best the other. On this occasion, the Blues won the toss and the second replay was staged at Goodison where a Dave Watson goal was enough to send Everton through to the Quarter Finals (where, typically, having beaten the hated enemy from across Stanley Park, they lost to West Ham of all teams).
The derby defeat was all too much for Dalglish, though, who resigned, ushering in a succession of failed managerial regimes at Anfield and, as Everton started the slide to their own nadir that twice almost cost them their top-flight status, the two clubs didn't meet in a cup competition again... until now.
The draw has, of course, sparked memories of those halcyon days, not only on Merseyside but in the media as a whole ? TVNZ in New Zealand go so far as to brand it the "draw of dreams". It does invoke a more romantic pre-Premier League time when football was more about which teams were best managed rather than who had the most cash to spend, the balance of power didn't rest with four clubs, and a genuine one-city rivalry between two historic foes could take centre-stage.
To a certain extent, though, such memories do belong in a by-gone age because as the Premier League era has worn on, the Mersey rivalry has taken on a decidedly darker tone. While many fans still do and will continue to attend derby games together, friends and families sitting side by side despite their opposing allegiance, there is undoubtedly more bitterness to the atmosphere.
While saddening, it's not altogether surprising given the two clubs' vastly different experiences since the inception of the Premier League. While Liverpool may not have won the Championship since the 1989-90 season, they have at least always been there or there abouts thanks to vastly superior resources that are bolstered annually by the goldmine that is the Champions League. Everton, by contrast continued the downward spiral that had begun with the departure of Howard Kendall in 1987, one which gathered pace in the mid-1990s, and came within a hair's breadth of relegation in 1994 and 1998.
The David Moyes era has certainly restored a great deal of pride to the Evertonian ranks and helped close the yawning gulf between Red and Blue on Merseyside to the point where Everton defied the odds and actually edged Liverpool out of the Champions League places in 2005. Nevertheless, a chasm in resources, symptomatic of the dominance of the Sky Four, still exists and is a large factor in why Moyes has presided over just two derby victories in seven years and thus far failed to beat the Reds at Anfield.
With that inferiority comes a large measure of bitterness among Blues, so much so that Liverpool fans have taken to branding Evertonians "the Bitters." Again, it's not surprising. Though Everton harboured hopes of a golden age in the 1970s after being crowned Champions in 1970, it was Liverpool who laid the foundations for their current stature by dominating the decade, racking up five titles while Everton suffered through a drought of trophies that would last until 1984.
That year, they might have won both domestic cup competitions had Alan Hansen's deliberate but unpunished handball not denied the Blues victory in the Milk Cup Final. Then, having been crowned League Champions and standing on the cusp of Continental greatness, the rug was pulled from underneath Everton when English clubs were banned from European competition for five years following the Heysel disaster. The fact that it was rioting Liverpool fans who robbed Everton of a crack at the European Cup in the 1985/86 season has not been forgotten. Nor has the further ignominy that followed in 1990 when Liverpool were admitted straight back into Europe by Uefa while Everton were left in the cold, denied any kind of complementary entry by way of compensation for their injustice five years previously.
Indeed, when Everton have triumphed in modern times, Liverpool have been there to play the spoiler on almost every occasion. In 1986 they not only pipped the Blues to the title, they beat them in the FA Cup Final as well. In 1989, though fitting given the Hillsborough tragedy a month before, the Reds edged a thriller at Wembley 3-2 in extra time.
Then in 2005, having dragged themselves back to respectability under Moyes and gained entry to the Champions League qualifiers at their neighbours' expense, Everton had to watch as Liverpool first won the 2005 Champions League Final, on penalties no less having come back from 3-0 down against AC Milan, then used all their power as member of the G14 cartel of clubs to get Uefa to change the qualification rules and admit them into the competition as holders the following season. The final kick in the nuts was, of course, seeing the Reds progress to the lucrative group stages while the Blues were dumped out at the hands of another scandalous refereeing decision that August.
Throw in the fact that the shower from across the Park seem to benefit from so many dodgy refereeing decisions — Graham Poll, Mark Clattenburg, anyone? — and so much rub of the green compared to Everton that you'd swear they're in league with Satan... well, you've already got the picture, you're a Blue.
So, if Evertonians appear bitter towards their Merseyside brethren it's with damned good reason. The trail of misery and outrage going back to Heysel may not be as obvious as it was, say, a decade ago given the fact that Everton have under Bill Kenwright and Moyes spurned a few golden opportunities to advance the club by leaps and bounds ? most notably with the Kings Dock debacle in 2002, the failure to strengthen the squad in key areas ahead of that 2005/06 Champions League campaign, and arguably during the farce of last summer when the team looked poise to finally make the kind of genuine go at the top four that Aston Villa are currently enjoying in their stead. Nevertheless, the root cause of Everton FC looking up through the glass ceiling at the Sky Four rather than being in their number was the Heysel ban and it's timing prior to the creation of the Premier League in 1992.
Years of standing in Liverpool's shadow has engendered that bitterness and the Goodison hierarchy's attempts to rip Everton out of the city of Liverpool to Kirkby have only rubbed salt into the wounds. Facing the very real possibility of leaving the city in which Everton was the first club to a bastard entity that would not have existed without them is especially galling.
So, if the so-called "friendly" derby is not quite so friendly any more, no one should be surprised because the rivalry that existed in 80s was based on a grudging but unstated respect and an underlying pride that two Liverpool teams were the kings of English football. Now, with the abhorrent exclusivity of the Sky and Champions League era having so distorted the playing field that Evertonians feel that they may forever be the poor relations to Liverpool, that respect has vanished.
Ironically, it's success for Everton in the form of repeat Champions League qualification ? unlikely, though, still possible ? or an FA Cup triumph this season that would go a long way to improving relations between the two sets of fans. A return to those days when the two clubs competed on a more level playing field would engender more of that lost mutual respect and perhaps bring some truth back to that "friendly derby" label.
The fulfilment of both scenarios would likely require an Everton double over the Reds this month; the Blues obviously need to knock Liverpool out to progress in the Cup and they're going to need every victory they can get if they are to squeeze past both Villa and Arsenal between now and May.
The prospects of that are probablly dim given the fact that Liverpool are top of the Premier League, it's now almost 10 years since Everton won at Anfield and Moyes can still only call on just one striker, but the spirit in his team right now is exactly what will be needed to spring a twin surprise. That thought alone will buoy Evertonian hearts as they prepare to descend into the belly of the beast twice in the space of six days and look to recapture some of the spirit of the mid-80s glory days.
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The rivalry was fine and dandy when Liverpool were carrying all before them, but when they stopped winning the Title as a matter of course their attitude changed and they invented a new Derby with Man Utd. On the forum there is a piece about a West Ham fan and a LFC fan having a discussion about the reds love affair with the media it makes interesting reading.
Despite all those things I have cited, I hope the Evertonians support the club in the proper way. Don?t sing anti-Liverpool songs re Heysel, Gerrard etc and support the club with grace and style. Smile ? it confuses people.
Also as an acknowledgment to those who lost their lives at Hillsbrough, why not take something blue and lay it at the gates, showing the world that we are not as BITTER as many like to portray us.
Allowing them in the CL through the back door was almost too much to bear. Why have rules, when you break them for Liverpool. I can still hear the utterly ridiculous self-inflating quotes from Gerrard, Lee et al, "they?ve got to let us in it now haven?t they?". Er, no, because rules are rules. Even the world cup winners have to qualify properly these days. But not Liverpool. Special case they are.
I can still hear the crack of Geoff Nulty?s leg as Jimmy Shithouse Case?s boot made contact with his upper tibia about 7 mins after the ball had gone. And the complete lack of remorse, or even interest in the plight of a fellow professional, who?s career he had just ended.
Being robbed of a return to Europe?s premier cup competition, and with a genuine chance of winning it, as a result of a Liverpool game & Liverpool fans was a body blow from which the club has truly never recovered.
And so it is with slightly mixed feelings that we enter this season?s melting pot. I say mixed feelings because I was finished with Moyes for what transpired between May ? October this year. I?ve also had an issue with him on the fact that we disintegrate with monotonous regularity in the last quarter of every season (with 1 exception). And yes, he never seems to send the boys out with an instruction to "play" or "go for it".
But like a true romantic, I have been impressed, intrigued and surprised at not only results, but performances of late. We were unlucky not to beat Villa, nevermind draw. Likewise Chelsea. Wigan should have been 3 pts, likewise for Boro & Newcastle at home.
So only 12 pts missing there. But this 4-6-0, which is really 4-3-3 with Felli, Tim & Ossie marauding, is good to watch and interesting to analyse. Mikel Arteta has gone so far as to say that the team is paying the best football since he came to the club. I am actually inclined to agree. Furthermore, the players seem to be relishing it. We can play good football, and hey, it?s more fun.
Now don?t laugh, but it set me thinking back to the great Dutch sides of the 70s and the total football concept. Specifically about the lack of what one might call an out-&-out forward. They played a loose 4-3-3, but Cruyff, Rep & Rensenbrink always operated from deep & were much more like attacking midfielders than out & out forwards. The idea being to keep the ball and be able to both attack & defend in reasonable numbers. The team never gets stretched and there are always colleagues close by to pass to. I?ll even go so far as to say they were almost as good to watch then as we are now...
The thing is, this thing is (thus far admittedly) so successful that I am in no hurry to get the forwards back, not if it means going back to a more stretched formation (sorry to be SO technical there).
As for the 2 games against the sperm of Lucifer, I want 3 pts from the league game. Don?t actually care in that game how it?s achieved. But if it?s from a penalty in the 93rd minute following a last-man tackle by Gerrard on Cahill, then I shall have the champagne & baby oil out.
As long as we win the league game I don?t give too much of a toss about the cup match, but hey, if we could win them both then bring it on. I don't do predictions, it?s an idiot's game. So we?ll take the league game 1-0, and the cup game at Goodison after a replay.
That leaves just one remaining question. When the fuck will Aston Villa?s luck run out. I mean, come on!
The win against Milan was awful, never thought I could let it go. Though Milan beating them 2-1 in a later final got that monkey off my back.
But what really gets me annoyed, is that even if they are no better than West Brom in a game, and its dull, and no one deserves the points, chances are non existance, then if they score with 7 minutes to go as they normally do on these occaisions, their fans smugly feel they had a right to that goal so much so that it was the natural order of things, leaving the pub at final whistle secure in their knowledge that they were always the best... tossers.
But hey, we?re safe in the knowledge that we follow the righteous path and that is all fine by me.
I’d still be angry like, but at least I wouldn’t be re-enacting the scene with Harvey Keitel in the Bad Lieutenant where he’s screaming in tears up to jesus on the cross, "WHERE W’ YOU!?!"
The funny part about the rule change to allow them into the Champions League was TNS offered to play them for thier place, then the draw pairs them together???!!!! Unbelievable, but that's what you get when you sell your soul, I just wonder who it is who actually sold their soul?
But having said that we are about to sell our soul when or if we move to Kirby ? I?ll bet we don't get the same outcome over the next 30 years tho?.
All things considered, should the good Lord ever want to undo the work of his nemesis Lucifer, then grant us one day, just one, I genuinely don?t mind if it?s the 19th or the 25th ? I just can?t cope with idea of those jammy bastards taking the spoils twice, the consequences would devastate our season and make the next 6 months unbearable. Let?s get behind the lads, I honestly believe we're good enough to go there and win.
I feel like I can now say yes I am fucking bitter and I have got more than enough reason to be!
Fortunately for us, and in spite of the dreams of deluded reds, they will not win the Premiership or the Champions League this season and Kirkby will not be approved this year (and even if it is eventually approved we will not be able to raise the necessary money).
However we are cursed enough to lose the two games even if we play brilliantly - when will our luck change ?
But I do remember back to the late 1980s and Arsenal spending £5m on executive boxes at Highbury which then was a huge amount - they had seen even back then seen the importance of the Corporate pound and I suppose the game was changing to a more commercial environment before SKY moved in. It’s a sobering thought, but the likes of Arsenal and Man U these days would still be able to massively outspend us even if the Champions legaue didn’t exist.
This is where your typical armchair LFC gobshite think they have an affinity with that mob, they get blanket coverage from every media outlet. Their fans think they have a right to silverware every season. What about the cup finals against West Ham & Arsenal? Have you ever known luck like it ?
Bitter blues? I know I am.
Is there no end to your negativity? "I just KNOW deep down it?ll be the same old tactics".
How can you dare whine about the players or Moyes not being up for it? You?ve thrown the towel in TWO WEEKS before the fucking game!
Knowing our prediciment and lack of forwards at the start of January, you would've thought that DM would've had players lined up as soon as Big Ben chimed on New Year's Eve, loan deals or otherwise... but no we get nothing yet again.
I can't believe DM is not taking any flak ovet this and my worst fear is that he will wait untill we lose both Derby games then sign a striker on the 31st January, when it's all to late.
Please prove me wrong this time, Davey Boy.
We just have to give 111% (due to the recession) and prove that just because they?ve got Lady Boy and Stevie Gbh, they?re not better than us. Admittedly, seeing Derron Brown swinging a watch in front of the ref?s face pre match may change all that but here?s hopin.
I argued with the miserable defeatest on these very pages that . . .
We would not lose to Man U: we didnt
We would beat Spurs: we did
We would not lose to Chelsea: we didn't
I?m no blind optimist but in case its escaped your notice, we now have a good team, playing decent stuff.
Stop living in the past, not long ago people were laughing at us because we hadn?t beaten Spurs at The Lane for a trillion years, now we can't stop winning there.
So, as I mention Dave, we have seen enough in the past, to know that Moyes will probably send the lads out to not get beat, and maybe nick a goal, instead of just having a go.
As I mention above, if we get beat having a go, I?ll accept that. And if Moyes does suprise me, and we go for it, I will be the first on here to praise him.
One more thing, Dave: I?m not throwing the towel in, the problem is that there have been so many false dawns when it comes to supporting Everton FC, so I don?t want to have my expectations raised, and then shot down again.
You two always have me in stitches . Are you sure your not Doddy and Marsh in disguise.
Here?s to 4-6-0 in both games, our best chance of winning, any claim to the contary is naive and stupid.
That we won?t win anything unless we beat one of them in a key game!!
Who else gets ridiculous penalties like the recent Madrid game, again and again and again? We all know the other ridiculous decisions and luck that they just expect as the norm... yet the one time a penalty is given for a no-contact foul against Chelsea last year, all hell breaks loose and referees are fucking apologising which just leads to the next referee favouring them even more.
I couldn?t believe that no-one pointed out that a penalty was given for the shite against Sheffield Utd when the diving creasehead went down and wasn?t touched. The referee said ?but he may have tried to touch him?, so it was a penalty... exactly the fucking same as the Chelsea penalty. They are by far the worst at manipulating things their way and by far the luckiest team in history.
Having said all that, Michael Thomas gave me one of the happiest weekends of my life!
My main concern is that we don?t give it a go! Too many times in recent years we have limped onto and off the pitch against them.
We need to go out to win against their 11 plus 3!
CYOB!!
I hate to admit this, but that goal, nay event, nay "happening" is my greatest everton moment.
Too many times have I sat hoping they would incur the wrath they smugly soe.
That day they did.
Seeing Steve Mcmahon doing that " one more minute" gesture.
Then Brian Moore saying "it’s up for grabs!"
Thomas scoring then doing that crap celebration weird spaz out head spin thing.
Then, then, then... The faces.
Oh my god, no not the players, not them, no the fans.
That was like watching the Death Star explode but in real life.
I was old enough to go into the streets and scream at the top of my lungs with joy.
I may or may not have danced a jig with an ewok, but I was young and impressionable.
Happy days.
Give Moyes a break this time will you? He said at the start of this transfer window that he had NO money to spend. That’s not his fault. It’s the Boards’. If he can get a loan player in, he will. But what team is going to let their best players, or at least ,players better than what we’ve already got, go out on loan? Maybe Moyes DID have players lined up for a loan period, but he’s unlikely to broadcast it to all and sundry is he? Anyway, I didn’t think it was the managers job to do the negotiating.
Welcome back, by the way. Have you been on holiday or have you been clinically depressed because we’ve been doing better.....
However, there is still a decent chance that the credit crunch will do for Liverpool and their gangster mates. Incidentally, isn?t it funny how many gangsters Liverpool have been associates with, from Dalglish to Fowler to Gerrard to the current owners. Surely people like that would never seek to influence the outcome of games?
While I am sure that Everton?s players have had a few dodgy associations, it seems to run through the DNA of Liverpool.
So wouldn?t it be nice of they failed to roll over the loans, the collateral was called by RBS, and the club went first into administration, and second had to sack all of its expensive players.
Then they could go back where they belong ? in the second division.
I also enjoyed the recollection that teams used to thrive and prosper on their management and players they could get together, rather than just the decision of some Russian biznizmen to do a bit of money laundering before their rivals managed to get in better with the government. Could anyone seriously see a Brian Clough succeeding nowadays with a Derby County and then Notts Forest? What is the probability of Wolves ever re-creating the kind of success they had under Stan Cullis in the 50s? Zero. Even Ipswich through the 70s and early 80s. None.
Actually, a real financial sorting out of the game would, in my view, be nothing but good. And if the RS are destroyed in the process EXCELLENT!
One thing though and this is serious, I blame the club not the god shite fans. I still enjoy the banter, even if they are an arrogant bunch of red shite, dick shites.
You never know, I am proud how the team is playing now (- and I mean the team, look around, no-one, especially the RS have the same standard of togetherness), so with that, Mikki on best form and selling your soul of course, maybe just maybe sonething special could happen in the 2 games with them - or of course I could be well pissed off for the next few years and not talk to the familly.
Good luck to us all (Shit Game but good result for us today)
When I was growing up on Merseyside in the 70s / early 80s before we had any success, it was very difficult as an impressionable teenager to justify in schoolground heated debates why we were better than them. They?d just spout off some shite like "the history books don?t lie, trophies, leagues etc". Ahhhhhhhhhh.
Then it reminded me of that smug bastard Jack Nicholson in the film "As Good as it Gets". There was a bit I remember where some fella was moaning about stuff and he came out with the line: "It?s not that you?ve had it so bad, it?s that they?ve had it so good".
I think this is part of our collective mental problems when it comes to them. We get anxious to the point of despair. The fear of losing is greater than the joy of winning. There is a relief after it?s all over (just like Christmas) and we hope that we get at least something out of it.
For a minute, let?s just imagine that we had both been two "upper mid-table" teams over the years, not winning much, but having some banter when the objective was to finish above them just for bragging rights in the ale house. I think we would all be a lot happier as individuals because so long as they weren?t winning, I think we would be able to drift through the seasons enjoying watching Everton play good football, do well as a Club, win the odd FA Cup and all that.
But it?s not like that is it!
All the above fears manifests itself by the sheer frenzy that erupts during those few seconds before each kick-off; the gasps each time a ball is floated into the box (at either end); the dread of the inevitable when cheating arse Gerrard breaks loose on the right in space; when Dalgeish scores after 45 seconds at Goodison; when Owen, Fowler, Rush et al pop up in the 6-yard box to create misery for us. I could rant on but it?s starting to depress me.
On the other hand, the joy of winning has been well documented. A couple of my favourites was an Away win and standing on the barrior in the Kop in full blue, aged about 16 giving it loads and being directly behind the goal for Sharpy?s goal of the century.
I think to the generation of fans coming through our ranks, we have to give them the joy of winning, something to shout about during their schoolground rants. This can only be achieved if we win something and our best bet is the FA Cup. But if Stoke can get a draw, we should go there with no fear, play with the arrogance and self confidence of Jack Nicholson and demoralise them with the same effect we did with West Ham last season.
The bright spark in the whole affair is Dr David France. His collection, allows Evertonians to walk around with pride.
In meeting Benitez?s "small club" slurs, I respond with the birth certificate quote. Because there is no answer a Kopite can give to the truth. Everton are the original club of Merseyside. We?re proud and so we should be!
Our downfall always seems to be because of them, whether it be on or off the pitch. As for us being bitter, I?ve been on Everton chatrooms and seen more Liverpool fans on there to wind us up than there are Everton fans. Yes, maybe we do hold a certain amount of anger towards them but that just comes with rivalry.
Another great idea I think would be to build a bigger stadium right next to theirs on Stanley Park ? has that been suggested before? OR maybe even on top? I will be watching us in Toronto on Monday with around 15 other blues... and around 175 odd gobshites... "Follow, follow, follow..."
When all is said and done, I have no interest in LFC. If you showed me their team photo I would struggle to name half a dozen of their squad. They have a manager with no charisma and a set of supporters to match.
Going to a derby match now is awful. I arrive at the ground as early as possible to take my seat so I don't have to mix with the lunatics outside and, when the match ends, I am gone before you know it. I don't set foot in a pub on derby day.
As an aside, caught 5 mins of LFC TV where three Reds were discussing the game. One quite eloquently noted that we?d won more away games than they?d won home games and would be "difficult to beat". The other two with straight faces concluded that they should put their second string in the Cup game "should win" and in the League... would be fine as "Everton have nothing to play for anyway as the Cup game is their Cup final" ? quite simply terrifying arrogance.
Nice one Denis - that had me pissing myself!!!
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1 Posted 08/01/2009 at 23:04:22
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