EDITOR'S VIEWPOINT
Kenwright's ESCLA Q&A Session
By Michael Kenrick : 05/07/2008 : 
Comments (146) :
Everton Chairman Bill Kenwright was the invited speaker at a meeting of the Everton Supporters Club, London Area (ESCLA) on the evening of Thursday 3 July 2008. Here are some of the questions and answers, as reported by Graeme on The People's Forum:
Comments (146) : Basically, and I formed my own opinion on Kenwright last night, based soley upon what he told us last night, is that Kenwright is the ringmaster of the circus.
Every question that was asked of him, and I give you a few samples here...
Why are we not represented with a bigger presence in the City? (I bought up the Liverpool store in L1)
BK Answer, only Newcastle fans spend vast amount of sums on merchandising, and out of town Liverpool supporters, if we had a store in the city we would onbly make a couple of £100s a year through that channel, so I dont thunk its worth it. That said Im only the chairman of the club and a fan like you, I dont know anything about merchandising, but I do love the club.
Bill, are you looking to sell.
BK answer, yes, I want to sell, this week I have had calls from Rome, Norway, Dubai and America, but no one wants to buy Everton because of Liverpool in the same city.
Bill, what can you do to make Everton seem like a viable attractive proposition for any prospective purchaser?
BK answer, I dont know. Can you tell me?
Bill, what about the planning and infrastructure needed to move to Kirkby?
BK Answer, hey dont ask me guys, Im just the chairman and a fan like you, thats not a question for your chairman!!
Will Moyes be signing, whats been the delay.
BK answer, no delay, we have a close relationship he calls me 10-15 times a day, we have just been negotiating thats all.
Will Arteta be sold?
Bk answer, no, well I dont think so, why would he go? He loves Everton, new 5 year deal, hes an idol, but football is a strange thing, and nothing suprises me..!!!
I could go on!!
The usual things that get posted on here, about the boys pen, Dave Hickson, Howard etc, all came out last night.
My impression is that he is in serious shit concerning the future of EFC. He did admit it was his heart ruling his head when he bought the clubm which we have to admire him for, and he freely admitted he hasnt the money to take us where we want to go, but I have never in all my life heard any chairman of a multi million pound organisation admit to having no idea about how a company was run, or is ran.
And that for me is frightening!!
Kenwright, a thouroughly nice guy, but to me, in charge of a house made of cards!!!
Reader Comments
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Its difficult to know if he was being deliberately evasive, or he genuinely doesn't know.
I don't know which worries me the most...
I don't know which worries me the most...
Totally agree Gavin.
I gave up on this lying charlatan for what he did to Paul Gregg and the KD fiasco but I thought the post showing his replies was a wind up.
I can't believe the chairman of any organisation can respond like that to genuinely concerned people.
It?s like saying "I?ve got my position in life, you lot can ask what you want but I?m still going to be chairman"
The sooner he abdicates, the sooner we can build for the future.
I gave up on this lying charlatan for what he did to Paul Gregg and the KD fiasco but I thought the post showing his replies was a wind up.
I can't believe the chairman of any organisation can respond like that to genuinely concerned people.
It?s like saying "I?ve got my position in life, you lot can ask what you want but I?m still going to be chairman"
The sooner he abdicates, the sooner we can build for the future.
Couldn?t have put it better Gavin, pretty much nothing Kenwright says actually stacks up in reality. Why did Thaksin buy Man City.. .you know, with United being in the same City?? Load of rubbish. Everton are still one of the biggest clubs in this country and the potential is massive. I am sick and tired of being insulted by this moron and his lies... pack it in Bill, you?re an embarrassment.
Good God, what a bullshitter!!!
Kenwright does want to sell and will have no choice but to sell very soon.
The catch is that Kenwright is just hanging on to see if he can make more money out of the move to Kirkby before he finally sells up. I believe he will sell up very soon if the Kirkby proposals are called in.
He cannot take the club further and we are at risk of losing our best manager since HK Mk I as a result.
Kenwright does want to sell and will have no choice but to sell very soon.
The catch is that Kenwright is just hanging on to see if he can make more money out of the move to Kirkby before he finally sells up. I believe he will sell up very soon if the Kirkby proposals are called in.
He cannot take the club further and we are at risk of losing our best manager since HK Mk I as a result.
Read today that Paul McCartney is an Everton Fan along with all of his family, could he not come and ?Help!? us? ? he is always stating how much he loves the city. Well I think we should start a campaign to make him save Everton from being taken out of the city. We could be great again but I just can't see it without some investment. Imagine (I know thats John?s song) what Paul could do with all that money. I'd go Veggie if it made him buy. Come on Paul, save us, take us on a ?Magiical Mystery Tour? to the top again. You would love it and you can play all your future gigs for free if you build us a new stadium!!!!!!!
That Thai fellow didn?t have a problem with City and United sharing the same city. The Russian didn?t have a problem with Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Fulham and a couple of other teams in London. Why would an investor worry about EFC and LFC being in the same city? How much more are we going to listen to!
He did a great job in getting rid of the Anti-Christ, but he has well over stayed his welcome.
The Deal of the Century is a laughing stock, I still wait to bump into some Evertonian that voted yes on that sham.
And now this Q&A... it?s just another big joke. Surely the man knows that everything he says is going to get back to us.
What really niggles me yet again around this time of year, is how can clubs below us in the league & I mean those like Bolton, Boro, Sunderland and other cannon fodder end up spending more on us on players. What ever happens to the money we get from the league positions we have finished in under Moyes ???.
Somebody must be lining their pockets in all this????
The Deal of the Century is a laughing stock, I still wait to bump into some Evertonian that voted yes on that sham.
And now this Q&A... it?s just another big joke. Surely the man knows that everything he says is going to get back to us.
What really niggles me yet again around this time of year, is how can clubs below us in the league & I mean those like Bolton, Boro, Sunderland and other cannon fodder end up spending more on us on players. What ever happens to the money we get from the league positions we have finished in under Moyes ???.
Somebody must be lining their pockets in all this????
If true paints a pretty damming picture for EFC. I’ve worked for over 30 years for a big company and all the chairman have known what goes on , down to the pennies , and all have had a clear vision of where the company is going.
The one thing which might annoy the basic fan is the fact that "foreigners dont know much about EFC". I have travelled extensively and there is a significant number of people out there who have heard of EFC but havent got a clue where we are from and are suprised that we share the city with Liverpool . Unfortunate but true.
A little fact - I’d say that 50% of all kids UK football jerseys I have seen around the world are Man U , followed by 30-20% for Chelsea and LFC and the rest Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs but very few Everton shirts - we are not a big brand and there lies the problem.
The one thing which might annoy the basic fan is the fact that "foreigners dont know much about EFC". I have travelled extensively and there is a significant number of people out there who have heard of EFC but havent got a clue where we are from and are suprised that we share the city with Liverpool . Unfortunate but true.
A little fact - I’d say that 50% of all kids UK football jerseys I have seen around the world are Man U , followed by 30-20% for Chelsea and LFC and the rest Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs but very few Everton shirts - we are not a big brand and there lies the problem.
Craig
he’s not lining his pockets its just that EFC are completely incompetent at marketing and operations.
We continue to take less commercial income than most prem clubs and make 10 million year losses whilst building up debts of 60 million.
And all this while our 400,000 a year CEO runs his own business in our time.
Its time we ran these pair of fools out of town.
Maybe they can take over Kirkby Town thats just about their level.
he’s not lining his pockets its just that EFC are completely incompetent at marketing and operations.
We continue to take less commercial income than most prem clubs and make 10 million year losses whilst building up debts of 60 million.
And all this while our 400,000 a year CEO runs his own business in our time.
Its time we ran these pair of fools out of town.
Maybe they can take over Kirkby Town thats just about their level.
Hmmm it seems that there?s two items on Toffeeweb now that back up what I got slated for last week...
Firstly. Kirby will be called in.
Secondly. Kenwright is "naive" and clueless as to the machinations of running a Premier League football club.....
Firstly. Kirby will be called in.
Secondly. Kenwright is "naive" and clueless as to the machinations of running a Premier League football club.....
Kenwright gets cut too much slack. Even criticism is couched in terms of his naivety. He knows what he?s doing and it?s all about personal financial gain. This is the best performance of his career...granted, that?s not saying too much.
Well he may not be able to run a football club, but he's turned £30 million into £80 million and been patted on the back whilst doing so by a rather large proportion of our fan base. Some might say the majority!!!
I think Bill Kenwright deserves a little bit more respect and loyalty from all of us he took over the club from the worst owner we have ever known and been a large part of turning it completely around to the point where we are once again considered a good club and not an absoloute laughing stock that we were eight or ten years ago.
Kenright is a joke of a chairman. He is taking us the cleaners and will sell as soon as the ?deal of the century? comes to fruition. It is common knowledge that he conveniently bought a plot of land in Kirkby a few years back too!!! FACT....TESCO anyone????
He must be laughing at us... and the other prick Whyness.
Don't forget BLUES... we are the 4th most successfull club in England... but teams far smaller than us have new owners. Kenwright is a crap actor and we need to start acting with our feet. I will not be going the games again whilst he is in charge. If I where Moyes I would be looking elswhere.
COYB.
Thanks Mr Moyes... just imagine how good we could have been... AGAIN.
NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM
I was at the same Q&A, the above is not a fair reflection of the night.
He did not go into detail about Kirkby especially the transport and was vague on some points but what do expect him to say? He said he has had enough and wants to sell because he can't take the club any further as he has not got £100 million spare.
Makes me smile how you forget the bit about LCC and how they have done nothing for us! Also the fact he has given personal guarantees to the bank for the YAk deal, funny how you forget all these other points.
What about when a fan thanked him for all his efforts and regardless of all the Bull under him as Chairman we are better off as a club, do believe that got the loudest cheer backed with a good round of applause.
You also forgot to mention the main reason we dont have a store at L1, is we dont have the demand for the product, he said. EFc merchandise can be bought all over the city and still the amounts sold are poor! He gave Liverpool as a possible reason why nowbody wishes to buy us not the main reason. What about the big blue chip company wishing to invest in EFC but wouldn't even travel to GP!
He is trying to sell but so far no serious offer has come in, he is doing the canvessing via a middle man. Bill is not perfect and he will admit that, his biggest problem is he doesn't have the funds to take us forward.
Lay off the personal attacks, he has limitations he knows that so dont expect him to produce miracles. What was very clear to me is without outside investment we can't go any further and that is a sad indictment of a once great club. That?s why a stadium move is the only way to generate investment, like it or not but it's reality. COYB
Hey Darren,
Port Vale asked Robbie Williams to help them out financially, and look where they are now. Be careful what you wish for!
Port Vale asked Robbie Williams to help them out financially, and look where they are now. Be careful what you wish for!
Good article Alan. I wish that some of these anti-BK would shut up as I can?t think of anyone else that would have taken Everton on at that time, and stabilised the club. If he had left it any longer we would have been down in the Championship by now!
Thanks for the fuller story, Alan.
Looking at the first couple of comments on here...come on? Get a grip lads, Kenwright/Moyes is one of the shrewdest partnerships in the land. I am proud to support a club which is actually a business.... Chelsea, Man City, West Ham etc etc, are merely toy clubs, phases.... At the end of the day, we?ll always be here, because we?re real.... we are going somewhere exciting, stop being so pessimistic!
I have been posting on an allied thread and will not repeat myself but wished to endorse the view that BB is a naive Chairman who leaves all the business side to his Chief Executive. Two years ago, I did some PR work for Tesco and discovered that Sir Terry had investigated at least a dozen sites within the City boundary but had got knocked back by LCC because the company had already got eight sites within their boundaries.
Kirkby was the nearest he could get to show any interest. I don?t rate Kenwright as a businessman but I do believe Leahy has gone the extra mile for him because of his own interest in our club.
Cue for abuse from all sides!!
Gavin/Jay, whatever your thoughts on Kenwright's ability as a chairman, your personal attacks on him are disgraceful. There?s so much bitterness and vitriol in your remarks I am repeatedly surprised the editor lets you get away with it.
Can you tell me how many club chairman you know would personally stand up in front of a couple of hundred supporters and attempt to give anwers on the club's financial standing and other confidential aspects of the club's affairs?
Please do tell me. Criticise by all means, that is your right, but why the bitterness?
Can you tell me how many club chairman you know would personally stand up in front of a couple of hundred supporters and attempt to give anwers on the club's financial standing and other confidential aspects of the club's affairs?
Please do tell me. Criticise by all means, that is your right, but why the bitterness?
Well, let's face it, our beloved Everton was in a terrible state before BK took over. Every year I?ve taken bets with my friends over whose team finishes higher. And guess what I won, we are doing better than NCFC, THFC and all the other chasers to the top four. BK and DM take the credit for this.
There seems to be a lot anti-Bill feeling when we should be thankful to have someone who actually cares for the club and let's be honest his investment. I'm so anti-Kirkby it's untrue but BK should have a pat on the back for the good work he has done. Why are we always so negative when there are so many positives?
There seems to be a lot anti-Bill feeling when we should be thankful to have someone who actually cares for the club and let's be honest his investment. I'm so anti-Kirkby it's untrue but BK should have a pat on the back for the good work he has done. Why are we always so negative when there are so many positives?
Bill Kenwright saved the club. Then he appointed Moyes. Then he stuck by him when others would have pulled the trigger.
That should never be forgotten. I, for one, will be eternally grateful to him.
That should never be forgotten. I, for one, will be eternally grateful to him.
The fact is, the club is only number two for Bill Kenwright. Numer one is himself and his own gains - this is only natural. Otherwise he would have stepped aside a long time ago.
Remember that he signed David Moyes only because the much despised Walter Smith OBE strongly recommended him to Everton as his successor.
I admit Peter Johnson was a horrible example of an owner not interested in the club, but Bill Kenwright is even worse example of a chairman who is completely clueless, leading him to make up stories that he only believes in himself. Because of him a lot of Evertonians become disenchanted, and Everton loses an important group of fans.
And for Everton not being attractive to the investors because of the RS... After all we are not Espanol. And both Inter and AC Milan are doing relatively ok, despite the fact that there is another big team in the city. The fact is, BK hasn’t yet had the right offer for HIMSELF. For EVERTON there must have been many.
Remember that he signed David Moyes only because the much despised Walter Smith OBE strongly recommended him to Everton as his successor.
I admit Peter Johnson was a horrible example of an owner not interested in the club, but Bill Kenwright is even worse example of a chairman who is completely clueless, leading him to make up stories that he only believes in himself. Because of him a lot of Evertonians become disenchanted, and Everton loses an important group of fans.
And for Everton not being attractive to the investors because of the RS... After all we are not Espanol. And both Inter and AC Milan are doing relatively ok, despite the fact that there is another big team in the city. The fact is, BK hasn’t yet had the right offer for HIMSELF. For EVERTON there must have been many.
"The fact is, the club is only number two for Bill Kenwright. Number one is himself and his own gains ? this is only natural. Otherwise he would have stepped aside a long time ago."
Isn?t he the only Premier League chairman not to draw a penny in wages from his club? You?re confusing him with Peter Johnson, mate.
Isn?t he the only Premier League chairman not to draw a penny in wages from his club? You?re confusing him with Peter Johnson, mate.
I agree with the comments from Andy, Chris and Steve.
Some of the hate filled personal abuse of BK is just disgusting.
I was at the same meeting and the majority of Everton fans thanked him for saving the club, the way he runs it and have a great deal of respect for him.
I'm dissapointed that the top article doesn't show the whole meeting, but instead was written to show BK in a very negative light.
What did you honestly expect him to say? Give you a play by play detail of who he wants to sign, how much money we?ve got and the ins and outs of the planned ground move?
What company in the world would do this? Answer - a very bad one.
Just because he doesn't conduct our business through the press like some other bullish clubs, he gets slated and called a liar, which I find disgraceful.
Some of the hate filled personal abuse of BK is just disgusting.
I was at the same meeting and the majority of Everton fans thanked him for saving the club, the way he runs it and have a great deal of respect for him.
I'm dissapointed that the top article doesn't show the whole meeting, but instead was written to show BK in a very negative light.
What did you honestly expect him to say? Give you a play by play detail of who he wants to sign, how much money we?ve got and the ins and outs of the planned ground move?
What company in the world would do this? Answer - a very bad one.
Just because he doesn't conduct our business through the press like some other bullish clubs, he gets slated and called a liar, which I find disgraceful.
Alan Willo - that counter report of yours is merely a positive spinning of the original article/account above. The essentials are exactly the same: Kenwright is vague/lacking in knowledge of the Kirkby move (that?s a disgrace in and of itself, by the way); he wants to sell up (telling Tesco/DPP that he, along with his co-directors, aren?t looking to do this is a starnge way of selling up, however); we don't have a city centre presence because we don't shift enough stock (maybe we can leave JJB to self-motivate themselves on that one, eh? LOL!).
You see, yours and Graeme?s accounts were merely two sides of the same coin that tell one tale: Kenwright is a man well out of his comfort zone running a football club ? whether he?s well meaning or not really doesn?t come into it.
You see, yours and Graeme?s accounts were merely two sides of the same coin that tell one tale: Kenwright is a man well out of his comfort zone running a football club ? whether he?s well meaning or not really doesn?t come into it.
No one doubts the fact that BK "saved" us from PJ - that?s why he got the generous round of applause when this comment was made - even from people like me (and others) who seriously doubt his ability to take the club forward.
However this should not obscure the validity of the points made in the original post above.
It is clear to a number of us who were present on Thursday that it is David Moyes who is the man who has turned the club around. BK never ceases to tell us he won?t lie to us. We accept that he can?t always tell us everything what is going on. No-one would expect him to share information about ongoing potential transfer targets.
What I do expect of him is to treat people who ask valid questions ? perceived by him as slights or challenges ? in a professional and courteous manner. Take it from me, he was very surly and offensive towards a number of questioners.
Some of his answers already covered beggared belief. Namely:
1. That he was unaware of any transport impact assessment for Kirkby ? sorry, but I do expect more form a Chairman when we?re talking about a £350M developoment. This could easily be the pivotal point for the proposal to get rejected.
2. That the poor reputation of EFC's commercial arm "was nothing to do with him"!!! If this is the case, who is? ? and why was he unwilling to even to have the grace to say it?s something that needs improving? Instead he just made out that selling the EFC brand was just small potatoes in the bigger financial picture.
3. He was very unconvincing when tackled about the lack of transparency on the cost of EFC contribution to Kirkby. "It?s just like getting a mortgage" (£35 -70mill?) he said., having made earlier reference (correctly) to the likely growing reluctance of banks to extend credit to football clubs.
4. He was unwilling to go into any detail about justifying EFC support for the proposed 39th game, except it was "finance", after first denying that such a position existed.
Anyway, at least I now know why EFC won twice in a week @ West Ham last December. All down to BK?s inspirational leadership and generosity in taking the lads to a game of blackjack at one of his London clubs ? a team building exercise par excellence.
However this should not obscure the validity of the points made in the original post above.
It is clear to a number of us who were present on Thursday that it is David Moyes who is the man who has turned the club around. BK never ceases to tell us he won?t lie to us. We accept that he can?t always tell us everything what is going on. No-one would expect him to share information about ongoing potential transfer targets.
What I do expect of him is to treat people who ask valid questions ? perceived by him as slights or challenges ? in a professional and courteous manner. Take it from me, he was very surly and offensive towards a number of questioners.
Some of his answers already covered beggared belief. Namely:
1. That he was unaware of any transport impact assessment for Kirkby ? sorry, but I do expect more form a Chairman when we?re talking about a £350M developoment. This could easily be the pivotal point for the proposal to get rejected.
2. That the poor reputation of EFC's commercial arm "was nothing to do with him"!!! If this is the case, who is? ? and why was he unwilling to even to have the grace to say it?s something that needs improving? Instead he just made out that selling the EFC brand was just small potatoes in the bigger financial picture.
3. He was very unconvincing when tackled about the lack of transparency on the cost of EFC contribution to Kirkby. "It?s just like getting a mortgage" (£35 -70mill?) he said., having made earlier reference (correctly) to the likely growing reluctance of banks to extend credit to football clubs.
4. He was unwilling to go into any detail about justifying EFC support for the proposed 39th game, except it was "finance", after first denying that such a position existed.
Anyway, at least I now know why EFC won twice in a week @ West Ham last December. All down to BK?s inspirational leadership and generosity in taking the lads to a game of blackjack at one of his London clubs ? a team building exercise par excellence.
Alan Willo, wasn?t it Robert Earl that went guarantor on the Yakubu loan not BK as you claim?
I?d also expect as you were there to ask why haven?t you published your version of the minutes or request that the ESCLA minutes are printed - must be fairer to have the official ones surely if you claim he didn?t say these things?
Steve Hogan I don?t give a monkey?s toss about any other clubs or their chairmen, only the club I support and have supported for decades. The chairman appointed a CEO whose curriculum vitae would sound alarm bells given any scrutiny. If you are so learned on others clubs then name the chairmen who would do what BK has done ? lied time after time to protect his own position, appoint a CEO whose failings in post are dire and the chairman who if he succeeds will take a Premier League club from a city to a town ? come on, name another who has done that?
I?d also expect as you were there to ask why haven?t you published your version of the minutes or request that the ESCLA minutes are printed - must be fairer to have the official ones surely if you claim he didn?t say these things?
Steve Hogan I don?t give a monkey?s toss about any other clubs or their chairmen, only the club I support and have supported for decades. The chairman appointed a CEO whose curriculum vitae would sound alarm bells given any scrutiny. If you are so learned on others clubs then name the chairmen who would do what BK has done ? lied time after time to protect his own position, appoint a CEO whose failings in post are dire and the chairman who if he succeeds will take a Premier League club from a city to a town ? come on, name another who has done that?
So yes, vitriol and in spades because I love my club and I hate the way it?s being ran down and I hold BK and his CEO responsible for that. Disgraceful is the chairman claiming that the club will have a new openess and disappears, a chairman that hides behind his "true blue" badge when the chips are down but has failed over and over to do the right thing and move on, the chairman that lost the club the Kings Dock because he would have lost control of the club, lying to your own is disgraceful it?s much, much, much, worse.
Thank you Eric Blair. Very even handed.
Now prepare to be castigated by the Kenwright toadies.
;-)
Now prepare to be castigated by the Kenwright toadies.
;-)
As soon as it was anounced that BK would be appearing at the ESCLA Q&A evening I couldn't wait ot hear what he had to say... and boy he really is the joke we all thought he was.
He has known for 10 years he hasn't the financial clout to take us forward so why oh why hasn't he moved aside and let someone come in and invest?
According to Wyness & Ross, their phones don't stop either with companies wanting to invest. Let's start letting these clowns know our feelings, Sack the Board ? before it's too late!
Oh and by the way, why not ask Trevor Birch to step ahead... Why did he resign so quickly? Was he by any means hampered by anybody... after all, he was known as the #1 troubleshooter of British football clubs that had gone into economical quagmire...
Anyone of you who still defend Bill Kenwright, wake up and smell the coffee, or the inflated petrol price, or whatever... the sooner we see him on his way from the club, the better.
Anyone of you who still defend Bill Kenwright, wake up and smell the coffee, or the inflated petrol price, or whatever... the sooner we see him on his way from the club, the better.
Gavin, if you could take those hate filled glasses off for a moment you would realise we are the envy of all the clubs around us.
Can?t you see we are are a club who are improving year on year. I too long for the days when we were classed as the ?Mersey Millionaires?, but sadly football has changed beyond recognition and the fact that Everton arn?t the leading force they were isn?t all Kenwrights fault, the rot set in long before he came on the scene.
Perhaps you could direct your energy at finding or naming another source of income for Everton, they must be queing up on Goodison Rd waiting to invest.
It took the most successful club in British football five years to find a buyer(s), now look at the mess their in.
Look forward to your solution.
Can?t you see we are are a club who are improving year on year. I too long for the days when we were classed as the ?Mersey Millionaires?, but sadly football has changed beyond recognition and the fact that Everton arn?t the leading force they were isn?t all Kenwrights fault, the rot set in long before he came on the scene.
Perhaps you could direct your energy at finding or naming another source of income for Everton, they must be queing up on Goodison Rd waiting to invest.
It took the most successful club in British football five years to find a buyer(s), now look at the mess their in.
Look forward to your solution.
Rich Jones:
£30M with £5M debt
versus
£80M with £60M debt
Do the maths!!!
£30M with £5M debt
versus
£80M with £60M debt
Do the maths!!!
Steve Hogan, if BK cares to pay me £400k a year I?d start by looking at marketing the club, I?d review and change the retail partner who by example have zero merchandising in their Chester store near Cheshire Oaks this very weekend. I?d look at expanding those very corporates they claim to be waiting at the promised land of Kirkby, a promised land not even considered by Liverpool and they are the retail whores we should be emulating...
But of course this is all common sense, sadly clouded by the "true blue" badge. Well, Steve, as I?ve said on these pages before WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE EVERTONIANS AND THE LAST TIME I LOOKED IT DIDN?T COME WITH A HALO. The Sky deal and DM are the reason this club is still above water and not BK or KW, they are still making losses, which are minimised by the Sky deal that is given to all EPL sides and not down to the negotiating skills of either of them.
The playing side's success on the pitch and our league table positions are also down to DM and not BK or KW. Don?t think for one minute either would last two minutes anywhere else besides the stage (BK) and as a used car salesman (KW).
But then again, BK has chosen his "man" and at £400k a year he?s not exactly breaking even is he? Increased debt and very little left of value to sell to maintain a short-erm return to black.
I look forward to you explain how the club can?t be marketed having had its most media exposure and success in decades and how it can?t be marketed to the thousands of visitors to the Capital of Culture, which isn?t by the way attracting people locally but international visitors just as a starter to their joint expertise levels.
God, what is it going to take for some of you guys to realise what a joke BK actually is? Also, he may have saved us from Johnson, but if I remember correctly, he was one of the board members when Johnson was around, so why didn?t he stand up for the club then?
Who is the finest Chairman/owner of all EPL clubs? Roman Abr......
Let?s face it, we would all sell our club to another Roman and hail him as our saviour. No one would give a shite if he had ever heard of EFC.
Surely BK must take some credit for our improvement, the fact he does not have a spare £100m does not make him the worst Chairman in the history of EFC. Maybe he is in the wrong era. I do believe he should sell the club though, he is out of his depth because his pockets are not deep enough. A sad indictment of modern football.
Let?s face it, we would all sell our club to another Roman and hail him as our saviour. No one would give a shite if he had ever heard of EFC.
Surely BK must take some credit for our improvement, the fact he does not have a spare £100m does not make him the worst Chairman in the history of EFC. Maybe he is in the wrong era. I do believe he should sell the club though, he is out of his depth because his pockets are not deep enough. A sad indictment of modern football.
I just don?t understand all this complaining about the board and chairman. Are you people that are moaning actually thinking that the club are in a bad position. Let?s see.... Ten years ago where were we..... Nowhere. When Moyes took charge where were we..... Nowhere. Where are we now...... Europe second season on the trot, finished 4th a few seasons ago! What is wrong with you people, get your god dam heads examined and enjoy the football.
I?ve been out so I missed the fun.
Gavin has stated far better than me why he is so despised but I can state categorically why I dislike BK so much.
Gavin has stated far better than me why he is so despised but I can state categorically why I dislike BK so much.
- He cant stop TELLING LIES.
- He lied about Kings Dock
- He lied about Fortress Sports Fund
- He lied about NTL
- He lied to his then best pal Paul Gregg
- He lied extensively about Kirkby
- He lied about GP not being able to be redeveloped
- He lied about Rooney
- He lied about looking for investment 24/7
- For those who say he stabilised the club and doesn't take any salary, look at Paul Hardcastle?s example. He inherited £5 million debt and it cost £20 million which a number of people including myself believe was taken out of the club which miraculously a year later found itself £28 million in debt and auditors confirmed it was post PJ so we can't blame him.
- He has since sold/remortgaged all our assets and but for the Ronney money we would now be in £85 million debt instead of £60 million and we continue to make £10 million a year operating losses despite the increased SKY money and success on the pitch.
- He now intends to cash in on his terms having led us to the brink of financial disaster.
Jay,
You have to pay £2-5m for a squad player and £20k a week wages. This is precisely why most teams are showing a defecit when their accounts are published. Our wage bill was approx. 70% of our turnover, a nightmare scenario for any business.
You have to pay £2-5m for a squad player and £20k a week wages. This is precisely why most teams are showing a defecit when their accounts are published. Our wage bill was approx. 70% of our turnover, a nightmare scenario for any business.
Kevin,
I do not agree with the spiral in costs of players and their wages but that is a separate issue for all premier league chairmen to get together on.
Ours is so high as a % because our erstwhile CE got rid of the merchandising arm instead of ensuring it was managed properly and also neglecting to ensure our other commercial operations were improved.
Spurs with a capacity of only 36,000 get just on £40 million from commercial activities; we only get £3 million.
Now that has nothing to do with GP.
I do not agree with the spiral in costs of players and their wages but that is a separate issue for all premier league chairmen to get together on.
Ours is so high as a % because our erstwhile CE got rid of the merchandising arm instead of ensuring it was managed properly and also neglecting to ensure our other commercial operations were improved.
Spurs with a capacity of only 36,000 get just on £40 million from commercial activities; we only get £3 million.
Now that has nothing to do with GP.
Jay,
You can cherry pick the commercial profits of Spurs and hold them up as an example of how a football club should be operating, they are in the minority. If we had spent £16m on Bent and were fighting relegation with their squad, these pages would be on fire with calls for the manager and board to resign. Remind me where Spurs finished last season, or is it more important how many kits and ringtones we sell? Keane and Berbetov look like they will be leaving this season, so I imagine they will post a healthy profit in 2010-11.
You can cherry pick the commercial profits of Spurs and hold them up as an example of how a football club should be operating, they are in the minority. If we had spent £16m on Bent and were fighting relegation with their squad, these pages would be on fire with calls for the manager and board to resign. Remind me where Spurs finished last season, or is it more important how many kits and ringtones we sell? Keane and Berbetov look like they will be leaving this season, so I imagine they will post a healthy profit in 2010-11.
I cannot understand why these so-called Everton fans are attacking a man who took over this club when no one else would touch us. Bill may not be the best chairman in the world but he turned this club around from the brink of relegation and made one of the best mangerial appointments in this country since Arsene Wenger took over Arsenal. Unless you're willing and able to do what Kenwright did then you should back off.
Kevin, firstly Spurs weren?t in a relegation fight so get real on that one and secondly they actually won a trophy, which I?m sure any of us would have gladly taken!! We had a shocker of a season 2 years ago, don't forget, so I think it?s a little hypocritical to be having a go at a side who had previously enjoyed back-to-back 5th places and have now just won a cup.
Paul, you are a lost cause I?m afraid. So naive and deluded it?s beyond belief. People like you are the reason we may end up in Kirkby, it?s not your fault though, you are a product of society and too many chemicals in food.
Paul, you are a lost cause I?m afraid. So naive and deluded it?s beyond belief. People like you are the reason we may end up in Kirkby, it?s not your fault though, you are a product of society and too many chemicals in food.
Paul,
we are "so-called Evertonians" because we love the club and have followed it since childhood and for many its their main love in life.
Regrettably "Blue Bill" has not been looking for investment 24/7 and as well as appointing DM on Walter?s recommendation he also appointed our really successful and 100% blue KW and between them have succeeded in taking EFC from £5 million to £60 miilion debt while selling/remortgaging every asset the club had.It is also untrue to say no-one else was interested because it was a done deal between PJ and BK. Nobody else was given the chance.
When Paul Gregg realised how incompetent BK was, he offered to take control of the club but was bullshitted out of it by BK claiming he had £20 million investment lined up. So don't come on here telling people to back off a proven liar who is about to take the club to a place we can't come back from.
I?m going to bed now so dont expect an answer 'til tomorrow.
we are "so-called Evertonians" because we love the club and have followed it since childhood and for many its their main love in life.
Regrettably "Blue Bill" has not been looking for investment 24/7 and as well as appointing DM on Walter?s recommendation he also appointed our really successful and 100% blue KW and between them have succeeded in taking EFC from £5 million to £60 miilion debt while selling/remortgaging every asset the club had.It is also untrue to say no-one else was interested because it was a done deal between PJ and BK. Nobody else was given the chance.
When Paul Gregg realised how incompetent BK was, he offered to take control of the club but was bullshitted out of it by BK claiming he had £20 million investment lined up. So don't come on here telling people to back off a proven liar who is about to take the club to a place we can't come back from.
I?m going to bed now so dont expect an answer 'til tomorrow.
Wow!
I have read every single posting above and I?m shocked....... some of the comments aimed at BK from fellow Evertonians are just plain shocking. David Jones's comment aimed at Paul Smith for example (sorry to pick on you Dave). I don?t know either of you but reading your comments... I?m shocked!
The hatred (no other word for it) being spouted by so many adults is just leaving me speechless!
First of all, on the outside looking in... I freely admit I?m not as knowledgeable as some about the going?s-on but I would think that in general things have improved under BK. One could argue correctly that Moyes has done all the work on the pitch but BK is still the chairman... he picked Moyes (no matter who recommended him ? ironic that in another posting Walter Smith gets slated yet because he supposedly suggested DM to BK then he?s okay).... WHATEVER! Who gives a flying fuck?
I have read every single posting above and I?m shocked....... some of the comments aimed at BK from fellow Evertonians are just plain shocking. David Jones's comment aimed at Paul Smith for example (sorry to pick on you Dave). I don?t know either of you but reading your comments... I?m shocked!
The hatred (no other word for it) being spouted by so many adults is just leaving me speechless!
First of all, on the outside looking in... I freely admit I?m not as knowledgeable as some about the going?s-on but I would think that in general things have improved under BK. One could argue correctly that Moyes has done all the work on the pitch but BK is still the chairman... he picked Moyes (no matter who recommended him ? ironic that in another posting Walter Smith gets slated yet because he supposedly suggested DM to BK then he?s okay).... WHATEVER! Who gives a flying fuck?
BK is the chairman and under his chairmanship we have seen the BEST manager at EFC for years. I have never personally been so excited by what goes on at EFC as I have the last few years, it?s getting better and better. A bad season or two for sure but overall, FUCKING FANTASTIC! Europe back-to-back years ? brilliant .... being associated with top names (however tenuous and gossipy) ? exciting ... and throughout this BK is the chairman. He has backed DM all the way ? for that alone he should be applauded!
Now as to the "behind-the-scenes" stuff, don?t know, couldn?t comment! it surprises me how many posters seem to know what?s going on behind the scenes.... clearly we are not and haven?t been for a long time a rich club. Maybe on paper we are in the red now (more so then a few years back) but FFS please give me BK over just any old bank from Saudi-sandcastles wherever, or a billionaire-do-it-my-way-or-fuck-off Russian-dubious-type or a Human-Rights-violator Thak-whatever-his-fucking-name-is, or The-Laurel-and-Hardy-Business-School-approach as seen at The RS....
BK may be a jolly old chap with empty pockets but he?s obviously a 100% Evertonian looking for the right deal... who can fucking blame him? If moving to Kirkby (I?d prefer we didn?t) but if moving there is the only way to bring in big money then in all seriousness what choice do we have?
In reading between the lines I suspect LCC would like us to fuck off. Leaving Goodison is a huge, huge wrench but if success and the financial situation are improved by moving (a big IF I know) but if they are, who?s going to be laughing then?
We would all prefer to remain at an improved GP or a new and better location in the city limits but a few years from now and we?re regularly in the top four and beating Liverpool.... wouldn?t you prefer that? Even if BK has made a profit in the meantime?
You can?t say for sure that won?t happen..... nobody knows for sure what truly goes on behind the scenes or what will happen down the road but I know for sure that slagging off BK and your fellow Evertonians with such venom won?t change a damn thing or make us feel proud later on, and I mean all of us.
I?ll support EFC to the day I die but reading some of the comments above makes me cringe!
I never though BK was good news for our club. Man City managed to attract new owners in the same city as the other American Red Marketing Machine, so why can’t we?, They haven’t won anything since 1976. I suppose yes they do have a stadium. I feel the stadium issue is holding us back. A new stadium anywhere will do, it’s not ALL to do with LFC. It doesn’t have to be out of the city though, Man City’s isn’t.
Gavin, thanks for your lengthy reply, first question, why are you so hung up on KW?s salary?
You know the going rate isn?t £40k a year for a position of that stature.
Also, can you name your source inside the club who can confirm how many hours a week KW devotes to his ?own? business?
Outside of Man U, I would also like to know which Premier League clubs currently return a healthy profit year on year.
You know the going rate isn?t £40k a year for a position of that stature.
Also, can you name your source inside the club who can confirm how many hours a week KW devotes to his ?own? business?
Outside of Man U, I would also like to know which Premier League clubs currently return a healthy profit year on year.
Crikey, the amount of mud being slung around here is shocking.
I sometimes feel like EFC is just going into meltdown, but then that?s usually after reading a thread on here. A nice cup of tea and a rest from the non-stop vitriol usually works wonders.
How do some of you get through the day without self destructing? You must be close to a coronary some of you. Do you have as much bile for the bosses at work? It must be impossible to live your lives if you are as incendiary about everything. God help your families.
In the worst case scenario - ie. BK is truly as thick as a steaming pile of horseshite and as capable in the role of chairman as my one year old daughter ? then surely we should not make it any harder for him.
You say you care about the club and would boot BK out tomorrow for his incompetence and deceit. So what then? You have to realise we are not in a strong position, whoever's fault it is.
No quick funding injection is going to happen ? no-one wants to buy us at the moment for all the reasons which have been endlessly discussed. If BK was turning down or blocking offers as some of you seem to think, something would get into the press from whoever was trying to invest. It would be an all too obvious way of putting pressure on the board. Can?t you see that?
As far as I can tell all the usual mumblings and grumblings about the board which passes for intelligent discussion on here is magnified currently because there is nothing specific to moan about in terms of what goes on on the pitch. You are getting hysterical as there is nothing else to occupy your minds. Come September the flack will be well and truly aimed in another direction, ie. Dithering Davey and the incompetence of Phil Neville et al.
I sometimes feel like EFC is just going into meltdown, but then that?s usually after reading a thread on here. A nice cup of tea and a rest from the non-stop vitriol usually works wonders.
How do some of you get through the day without self destructing? You must be close to a coronary some of you. Do you have as much bile for the bosses at work? It must be impossible to live your lives if you are as incendiary about everything. God help your families.
In the worst case scenario - ie. BK is truly as thick as a steaming pile of horseshite and as capable in the role of chairman as my one year old daughter ? then surely we should not make it any harder for him.
You say you care about the club and would boot BK out tomorrow for his incompetence and deceit. So what then? You have to realise we are not in a strong position, whoever's fault it is.
No quick funding injection is going to happen ? no-one wants to buy us at the moment for all the reasons which have been endlessly discussed. If BK was turning down or blocking offers as some of you seem to think, something would get into the press from whoever was trying to invest. It would be an all too obvious way of putting pressure on the board. Can?t you see that?
As far as I can tell all the usual mumblings and grumblings about the board which passes for intelligent discussion on here is magnified currently because there is nothing specific to moan about in terms of what goes on on the pitch. You are getting hysterical as there is nothing else to occupy your minds. Come September the flack will be well and truly aimed in another direction, ie. Dithering Davey and the incompetence of Phil Neville et al.
He was good on "who wants to be a millionaire though"...
We?re on the road to nowhere.... lets take a ride...
Goodison for ever...
We?re on the road to nowhere.... lets take a ride...
Goodison for ever...
I?m shocked also... shocked at how shocked the Kenwright apologists can stick to their guns when that man has insulted the intelligence of every Evertonian with a breathtaking statement about not being able to flog Everton to a willing buyer because we?re in the City of Liverpool. with Liverpool FC..... shocked because they can't, or refuse, to acknowledge that this statement highlights the true motivation of Kenwright concerning the shift out of Liverpool.... shocked that these same people are retreading the same old tired argument of ?who do we replace Kenwright with??.... above all I?m shocked at how they conflate the achievements of David Moyes ? on a shoestring, net-spending budget and, therefore, DESPITE the obstacles put in his way by Kenwright ? with a ?steadying of the ship? by Kenwright in the period his junta has been in control.
Martin Cutler I have a lot of time for Evertonians like yourself who desprately want to believe Bill Kenwright and believe that everything at the club is rosy. The sole reason for the club?s turnaround has been David Moyes and the players nothing else.
In fact I?d say Moyes has NOWHERE near been backed financially as he should have been. A 4th place finish, 5th and 6th I think he?s held up his side of the bargain don?t you??
Bill Kenwright is totally out of his depth and in NO POSITION to back a now proven top manager at this level. I used to have a lot of time for Bill Kenwright and when he first started out at Everton I wanted him to suceed. But after nearly 15 years of hearing countless make-believe stories and treating a loyal fanbase like a load of idiots, my patienece snapped and it snapped years ago. The Rooney transfer was the final nail in the coffin for me but this Kirkby disaster is a disgrace to Evertonians eveywhere past and present.
To hear these latest comments of foreign Investors not wanting to commit because of Liverpool FC is again an insult to the fans and to the name of Everton. Why isn?t he talking our name up then?? Why isn?t he promoting us as one of the most successful English clubs and a club with a proud History and Heritage?? He is all too eager to throw up the white flag which is not a person who should be leading our football club. Pompey, Villa, Spurs... I could go on ? have had no problems securing Investment so why has a club the size of Everton struggled??
"I?m looking to sell" that?s not what he told Tesco is it and it's there in black and white!! This man, along with Wyness has been holding us back for years and, if we don?t act collectively as a fanbase, the damage will be beyond repair. If Kirkby goes ahead it?s the end of Everton and 30,000 fans in a second rate stadium won?t make a blind bit of difference ? our place among England?s elite will be gone.
His latest set of storming comments have only cemented my view that he?s a total knucklehead.
In fact I?d say Moyes has NOWHERE near been backed financially as he should have been. A 4th place finish, 5th and 6th I think he?s held up his side of the bargain don?t you??
Bill Kenwright is totally out of his depth and in NO POSITION to back a now proven top manager at this level. I used to have a lot of time for Bill Kenwright and when he first started out at Everton I wanted him to suceed. But after nearly 15 years of hearing countless make-believe stories and treating a loyal fanbase like a load of idiots, my patienece snapped and it snapped years ago. The Rooney transfer was the final nail in the coffin for me but this Kirkby disaster is a disgrace to Evertonians eveywhere past and present.
To hear these latest comments of foreign Investors not wanting to commit because of Liverpool FC is again an insult to the fans and to the name of Everton. Why isn?t he talking our name up then?? Why isn?t he promoting us as one of the most successful English clubs and a club with a proud History and Heritage?? He is all too eager to throw up the white flag which is not a person who should be leading our football club. Pompey, Villa, Spurs... I could go on ? have had no problems securing Investment so why has a club the size of Everton struggled??
"I?m looking to sell" that?s not what he told Tesco is it and it's there in black and white!! This man, along with Wyness has been holding us back for years and, if we don?t act collectively as a fanbase, the damage will be beyond repair. If Kirkby goes ahead it?s the end of Everton and 30,000 fans in a second rate stadium won?t make a blind bit of difference ? our place among England?s elite will be gone.
His latest set of storming comments have only cemented my view that he?s a total knucklehead.
Put your dummy back in and calm down.
As someone else has said if people were trying to invest and being blocked they’d go public. I’m as p’d off as anyone that we are in the predicament we are in but we just have to live with it, we are not attractive enough for any investor.
The difference between us and City is the not inconsiderable STADIUM they were gifted.
Between us and Villa, its the huge catchment area they have. being by far the most successful club in the midlands.
Between us an West Ham, the small matter of London ?!!!
Then theres the matter of our debts. Whose fault is it that? We can point the finger at those currently in charge but what alternatives have they (ie to selling off the assets and mortgaging) when they have no money to invest and don’t forget that the mismanagement went on for decades before them.
As someone else has said if people were trying to invest and being blocked they’d go public. I’m as p’d off as anyone that we are in the predicament we are in but we just have to live with it, we are not attractive enough for any investor.
The difference between us and City is the not inconsiderable STADIUM they were gifted.
Between us and Villa, its the huge catchment area they have. being by far the most successful club in the midlands.
Between us an West Ham, the small matter of London ?!!!
Then theres the matter of our debts. Whose fault is it that? We can point the finger at those currently in charge but what alternatives have they (ie to selling off the assets and mortgaging) when they have no money to invest and don’t forget that the mismanagement went on for decades before them.
I was not "conflating" if that?s what you were suggesting, David Kiely. My comment about Dithering Davey and Phil Neville et al was tongue in cheek.
David, obviously Moyes deserves the vast majority of the credit for turning the club around but he still needed Kenwright’s backing to do so. Remember the talk in the press of Moyes’ possible sacking during those couple of trying seasons? I think you knew as well as I did that that was just press talk because Kenwright had faith in Moyes. For once, the chairman’s vote of confidence was actually genuine.
As for LFC being a major hindrance in finding an investor, that was first flagged up to me a couple of years ago (might have been in the Grauniad but I seem to remember it being a Deloitte analyst making the observations). Depressing stuff but hardly a flight of fancy on Kenwright’s part.
I do share people’s frustrations with Everton’s apparent lack of commercial/marketing acumen and of course it’s terribly frustrating having an owner who, even though he loves the club, lacks the financial clout to compete with the Sky Four (and even half a dozen other clubs) and for that reason I hope Kenwright does find a suitable buyer but - as others have said on this thread - the level of bile being directed towards BK here is quite shocking.
The other consideration, of course, is do any of us want the club to become a Russian billionaire’s plaything? When moaning about the status quo, we also need to consider the possible alternative scenarios.
If only Paul McCartney actually loved his family’s club even half as much as we all do!
As for LFC being a major hindrance in finding an investor, that was first flagged up to me a couple of years ago (might have been in the Grauniad but I seem to remember it being a Deloitte analyst making the observations). Depressing stuff but hardly a flight of fancy on Kenwright’s part.
I do share people’s frustrations with Everton’s apparent lack of commercial/marketing acumen and of course it’s terribly frustrating having an owner who, even though he loves the club, lacks the financial clout to compete with the Sky Four (and even half a dozen other clubs) and for that reason I hope Kenwright does find a suitable buyer but - as others have said on this thread - the level of bile being directed towards BK here is quite shocking.
The other consideration, of course, is do any of us want the club to become a Russian billionaire’s plaything? When moaning about the status quo, we also need to consider the possible alternative scenarios.
If only Paul McCartney actually loved his family’s club even half as much as we all do!
Once when visiting New Zealand, I got my leg over a particularly stunning looking girl.
Stunning!
Drink WAS involved, but even so, she was particularly good looking and I really had no right.
Beautiful figure, gorgeous face, and she was wearing this white one-piece mini..dress...type thing
I can honestly say I have never before, or since, got close to ANYTHING in the same league.
Want to know how I did it?
Dumb luck - pure and simple.
Maybe Jupiter was aligned with Uranus, maybe I’d had rabbit pie and the rabbits feet had been left in.
Whatever, it was luck and I was grateful.
The morning after, I didn’t start to believe I was a Chippendale or Leslie Phillips (one for the teenagers there!)
The reason I mention this, in this thread, is just as a reminder to those who mention "Yeah but BK DID pick Moyes" as though it was down to some fantastic bit of ’pulling’ on his part.
It wasn’t!
When Walter left, it was a case of needs must.
I believe WE were lucky to get Moyes.
I believe Bill was even luckier.
Stunning!
Drink WAS involved, but even so, she was particularly good looking and I really had no right.
Beautiful figure, gorgeous face, and she was wearing this white one-piece mini..dress...type thing
I can honestly say I have never before, or since, got close to ANYTHING in the same league.
Want to know how I did it?
Dumb luck - pure and simple.
Maybe Jupiter was aligned with Uranus, maybe I’d had rabbit pie and the rabbits feet had been left in.
Whatever, it was luck and I was grateful.
The morning after, I didn’t start to believe I was a Chippendale or Leslie Phillips (one for the teenagers there!)
The reason I mention this, in this thread, is just as a reminder to those who mention "Yeah but BK DID pick Moyes" as though it was down to some fantastic bit of ’pulling’ on his part.
It wasn’t!
When Walter left, it was a case of needs must.
I believe WE were lucky to get Moyes.
I believe Bill was even luckier.
I am really struggling to find this article genuine to be honest.
In luvvie Bill we trust !
I had to read Bills answers a few times as I thought it was a joke ? how can anyone say cut him some slack when he is answering questions on the biggest decision in our history with "I don't know, don't ask me, I am only the Chairman"!!!!!!!!!!!
He should know what?s under every stone at our beloved club... and as for the claims of how he takes no wage, do me a favour please.
He should know what?s under every stone at our beloved club... and as for the claims of how he takes no wage, do me a favour please.
I also attended the ESCLA meeting and was appalled at Mr Kenwright?s answers.
Any reasonable question about Kirkby regarding transport, the feasibility of raising money to fund the project; or a question about merchandising, were met with answers that led us to believe he had an astonishing naivety about the workings of Everton Football Club. I find this hard to believe and therefore felt he took us for fools.
Many answers were given after first ridiculing the question or questioner, which I personally found insulting. I do appreciate Mr Kenwright ?rescuing? the club but feel he must now find a buyer in order that Everton can move forward. and your point EJ Ruane? Bill Kenwright was lucky to appoint David Moyes....so......he was lucky, genius of you to perceive that. He was not so much lucky then as perhaps potless and without a choice when he didn?t sack DM when so many were calling for his head. So what.
So what if BK is a luvvie and a bit clueless. At least he is trying. Thank god some Evertonians have some perspective and can see what BK has done for the club and give him the lassitude that he has the club at heart and means well even if he is less than dynamic as Chairman. Some of you need to get a grip.
So what if BK is a luvvie and a bit clueless. At least he is trying. Thank god some Evertonians have some perspective and can see what BK has done for the club and give him the lassitude that he has the club at heart and means well even if he is less than dynamic as Chairman. Some of you need to get a grip.
"Lassitude" ? if that means toleration of abusing the dog then I've learnt a new word today. Hilarrious! ? Editor
Back to the original article. What do I feel about our Chairman’s comments?
Bemused? Angry? Frightened for the Club?
All of them, but my overridding feeling is of being insulted. For example.
"?.if we had a store in the city we would only make a couple of £100s a year so I don?t think its worth it".
Yes it would. Does he not understand how handing over the City to LFC effects Evertonians?
"?.I?m only the chairman I don?t know anything about merchandising?."
What a disgraceful statement.
He insults our intelligence.
Bemused? Angry? Frightened for the Club?
All of them, but my overridding feeling is of being insulted. For example.
"?.if we had a store in the city we would only make a couple of £100s a year so I don?t think its worth it".
Yes it would. Does he not understand how handing over the City to LFC effects Evertonians?
"?.I?m only the chairman I don?t know anything about merchandising?."
What a disgraceful statement.
He insults our intelligence.
We desperately need a visionary like General Melchett to take us forward if Bill is as clueless as this.
Craig Dodd - get in touch mate, long time no speak.
Craig Dodd - get in touch mate, long time no speak.
Conratulations Bill Bylaw.
You have invented the ’Kenwrightian slip’.
You talk of Evertonians giving Bill some ’lassitude’ (genius yourself!)
I initially presumed you meant latitude but....maybe not.
’Lassitude’?
Lack of energy, listlessness, indifference etc.
By the way I noticed this is reported this morning (6th Jul)
"Manager Arsene Wenger has admitted that Arsenal intend to continue selling their prized assets for the next 17 years.
The Gunners sold Thierry Henry to Barcelona for over £16million last summer and re-invested £7.5m of that money on Croatia striker Eduardo.
This summer, Emmanuel Adebayor and Alexander Hleb have been linked with big-money moves away from the Emirates Stadium.
And Wenger has revealed Arsenal must continue to make a profit in the transfer market in order to cover the costs of their new stadium.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_3784192,00.html
I thought, good job we’re getting our stadium free!
You have invented the ’Kenwrightian slip’.
You talk of Evertonians giving Bill some ’lassitude’ (genius yourself!)
I initially presumed you meant latitude but....maybe not.
’Lassitude’?
Lack of energy, listlessness, indifference etc.
By the way I noticed this is reported this morning (6th Jul)
"Manager Arsene Wenger has admitted that Arsenal intend to continue selling their prized assets for the next 17 years.
The Gunners sold Thierry Henry to Barcelona for over £16million last summer and re-invested £7.5m of that money on Croatia striker Eduardo.
This summer, Emmanuel Adebayor and Alexander Hleb have been linked with big-money moves away from the Emirates Stadium.
And Wenger has revealed Arsenal must continue to make a profit in the transfer market in order to cover the costs of their new stadium.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_3784192,00.html
I thought, good job we’re getting our stadium free!
The Chairman was ill-advised to meet up with so many ? antis? ? he was really in a no-win situation.
What a pity that the Club is not governed by the geniuses who inhabit this site! Fifth in the Prem? We?d be Champions of Europe!
What a pity that the Club is not governed by the geniuses who inhabit this site! Fifth in the Prem? We?d be Champions of Europe!
Richard why did he need advising? It did not take a brain surgeon to know the sort of questions that would be coming his way.
Richard; sorry to have a go but "antis"?!?!?! We so-called "antis" just want answers to questions we feel are important, why shouldn't the chairman of a club/buisness speak to the main stakeholders of the club, with honesty and integrity? It seems to me judging by people who where at the meeting that he treats the fans with utter contempt. Not knowing about merchandise and transport at Kirkby is shocking. Do you really believe this man is leading EFC into a bright future? Even Moyes is questioning the short term ambition of the club.
Sick of the responsibility, Billy Bull has washed his hands of any involvment in the club, apart from using it as a jolly when it suits him to entertain his pals.
He has left the running of the club in the hands of the honourable and most trustworthy Mr Wyness, to whom he has given carte blanche to use any means necessary, regardless of what's best for our Club, to maximise their departing remitance. The Rooney and Sky money have been used to paper over the cracks, but the dam is about to burst.
Something that has gone unoticed at the club while the commercial side of things has been mismanaged and now franchised off by KW, is that there has been an explosion of highly paid ??office jobs??for the boys and girls, along with generous expense accounts. We are being asset stripped and bled dry.
The proposed Kirkby move will be an absolute fucking disaster and the final nail in the coffin of our once great club if it is allowed to go ahead. Anyone who is prepared to put their trust in BK and KW must be extemely naive. We must pray that the Kirkby calamity is called in by central government (though Leahy has lots of pals in the current Labour administration) and the delay opens the departure door for the honourable and most trustworthy Mr Wyness.
Mr Kenwright your performance was tountamount to contempt!
To all YES voters, remember July 2007 when you were voting for Kirkby? Well I told ya. What a gang of sheep you lot are. How on earth none of you could see through Kenwright and Wyness makes me ashamed to call you Evertonians. Now I hope you realise the error of your ways and start standing up to these clowns.
It's too late to change the vote you were conned in to making but please stop with any support you might have left for Bill and Kieth's retirement fund.
It's too late to change the vote you were conned in to making but please stop with any support you might have left for Bill and Kieth's retirement fund.
John Doyle, you?ve hit the nail on the head with your response.
I personally feel Kenwright ain?t the man to lead us now or in the near future; Premier League football at the highest level now demands a massive influx of capital, whether we stay at Goodison or decamp to Kirkby.
But you have highlited some of the contributers to this site who would give Genghis Khan a run for his money given the outpouring of spite and bitterness.
Sadly, most of them don?t have any viable solutions apart from castigating the current administration.
I personally feel Kenwright ain?t the man to lead us now or in the near future; Premier League football at the highest level now demands a massive influx of capital, whether we stay at Goodison or decamp to Kirkby.
But you have highlited some of the contributers to this site who would give Genghis Khan a run for his money given the outpouring of spite and bitterness.
Sadly, most of them don?t have any viable solutions apart from castigating the current administration.
Kevin Tully, your comments on Abramovich... he has not, I repeat NOT put a single penny into Chelsea. It's a personal loan which, if he decides to leave, the club hold the debt so don't sing his praises.
Secondly, if you are correct on EFC wages at 70% of turnover then Deliotte and Touche recommend no more than 55% max, which is why Hughes has gone to City as Blackburn's is 85%wages v turnover.
Do you know we made an £8.1 million loss in 06-07 and the revenue brought through the gates didn't cover the wage bill?
We are all blues and we know our club's problems but I think we should not be disrespectful of BK but I do feel as he himself does that it is time for a change. Let's keep the comments non-personal.
Some people keep mentioning the level of debt we are now in, compared with a few years ago, (£5m then, now £60m).... I wonder what Man U, and Liverpool's debt was then, cos it's between 5-7 hundred million now, depending which media source you believe. Two of the most successful clubs in recent years, and that Spanish sounding fella, EJ Ruane has already told us Arsenal are now a selling club. In perspective, we haven?t done that bad.
The whole fiasco about EFC and LFC being in the same city is not the excuse.
Villa, Birmingham, Wolves
Man U, City
West Ham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Fulham, Spurs
Out of the 4 biggest cities in the country 3 of them have had a foreign investor into a smaller clubs from the region. Something fishy if you ask me?
Villa, Birmingham, Wolves
Man U, City
West Ham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Fulham, Spurs
Out of the 4 biggest cities in the country 3 of them have had a foreign investor into a smaller clubs from the region. Something fishy if you ask me?
Steve Hogan, Of course there is an amount of spite and bitterness. A lot of people feel they have been misled. And when the Chairman turns up at a Q&A and then is clearly unable to answer even the most basic of questions what on earth do you expect?
Without resurrecting the whole Kirkby debate, I would expect the Chairman to at least give some satisfactory answers/explanation to the thinking behind it. There have been various and varying reports on Kenwright's performance at the Q&A but most appear fairly damning in my opinion.
OK, so what most people are stating is BK should be held accountable for all that is currently wrong with EFC. Fair enough.
Any part of the club which is performing well has fuck all to do with him. You can?t have it both ways! We have recently broken a few club records. Highest points toal in the Prem etc.. so you cannot deny EFC is moving forward. A bit of honesty would be nice. No-one likes BK because he?s skint. If he had the cash to buy any player he wanted and build a new ground we would not give a shite how many replica shirts we sold.
Any part of the club which is performing well has fuck all to do with him. You can?t have it both ways! We have recently broken a few club records. Highest points toal in the Prem etc.. so you cannot deny EFC is moving forward. A bit of honesty would be nice. No-one likes BK because he?s skint. If he had the cash to buy any player he wanted and build a new ground we would not give a shite how many replica shirts we sold.
Bottler Bill is just trying to line his pockets and that of Terry Tesco. Do you remember the Kings Dock prospect? But before opting for that, Bottler Bill was offered Stanley Park to build on.... Goodison was going to be another Tesco supermarket.
Planning permission was blocked; Richard Branson wanted to buy in... Bottler Bill stopped him. Phil Green of Top Shop was turned away... Going back to Terry Tesco, he is an unpaid adviser to the Everton board ? is that not a conflict of interest?
ToffeeWeb reports the Tesco store will be inside the ground if Kirkby goes ahead; Kopites are now calling us a litte club with a new blue and white stripped kit... Come on, Bottler Bill, tell us the truth on any offers you have had.
Tony Marsh - there?s many who?d have the same opinion of you.
Tell me this, oh font of all knowledge ? if Kirkby is BK & Wyness?s retirement fund, as you put it - how does that work then?
As I thought Kirkby is going to result in the club going tits up? No-one?s going to go, it?s going to be half empty, it?s a complete disaster & financially unsustainable ? however, despite all of this BK, is going to wander off with his arse pocket bulging? As somehow the club is going to worth more then than it is now ? despite the disastrous outcome of the move?????
Tell me this, oh font of all knowledge ? if Kirkby is BK & Wyness?s retirement fund, as you put it - how does that work then?
As I thought Kirkby is going to result in the club going tits up? No-one?s going to go, it?s going to be half empty, it?s a complete disaster & financially unsustainable ? however, despite all of this BK, is going to wander off with his arse pocket bulging? As somehow the club is going to worth more then than it is now ? despite the disastrous outcome of the move?????
[Starts making his banner and warming up his singing voice]
Kenwright Out!
Kenwright Out!
Ok maybe a bit far, but if a chairman of a business doesn't know how it's ran, what he can do to make it more attractive to investors, or what one of his best assets is going to be doing over the next month or so... then surely it's time to go.
Kenwright Out!
Kenwright Out!
Ok maybe a bit far, but if a chairman of a business doesn't know how it's ran, what he can do to make it more attractive to investors, or what one of his best assets is going to be doing over the next month or so... then surely it's time to go.
Merseyside population - 1.4 million, Gt Manchester population - 2.9 million
Birmingham polulation - 3.3 million
London population - 7.5 million.
Looking at the amount of money coming in to each household (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/gdhi0508.pdf) Merseyside = £16700, Gt Manchester = £31300, West Midlands = £30000, London = £55000-71000
So Liverpool and Everton divide up money spent by half the number of people that Manchester can (for example) and those people have half as much to spend, so at best Everton have quarter of the possible income available to Manchester clubs.
These are the sort of figures used by investors to forecast potential growth & earnings. As you can see we are bottom of this example heap, and that is presumably why we also need to attract supporters from outside Merseyside!
Birmingham polulation - 3.3 million
London population - 7.5 million.
Looking at the amount of money coming in to each household (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/gdhi0508.pdf) Merseyside = £16700, Gt Manchester = £31300, West Midlands = £30000, London = £55000-71000
So Liverpool and Everton divide up money spent by half the number of people that Manchester can (for example) and those people have half as much to spend, so at best Everton have quarter of the possible income available to Manchester clubs.
These are the sort of figures used by investors to forecast potential growth & earnings. As you can see we are bottom of this example heap, and that is presumably why we also need to attract supporters from outside Merseyside!
Steve Taylor....
Frankly, the situation is very, very simple. The ?club? is to be given an asset of £52m to offset the build costs of the new stadium. Without this gratis £52m asset, the club, of which Bill Kenwright owns 26%, will be worth £52m less. Furthermore, without this £52m subsidy the club would have to borrow more money, incur more debt and pay higher levels of interest making the shareholding less attractive without this ’incentivisation’.
Have you ever considered why Robert Earl invested in Everton? He is a Tottenham supporter who has visited Goodison on just a few occasions. He has no affiliation or association to the club so why would he invest £8m, for a minority stake in a business that regularly loses about £10m a year? How does Mr Earl benefit from owning 25% of Everton Football Club?
One final point, please remember that the retail development at Kirkby does not have to be built for Everton to attain the £52m subsidy. The stadium is phased to be built prior to the retail development so clearly a mechanism must already be in place for Everton to glean the benefit of this £52m prior to the stadium being built.
Frankly, the situation is very, very simple. The ?club? is to be given an asset of £52m to offset the build costs of the new stadium. Without this gratis £52m asset, the club, of which Bill Kenwright owns 26%, will be worth £52m less. Furthermore, without this £52m subsidy the club would have to borrow more money, incur more debt and pay higher levels of interest making the shareholding less attractive without this ’incentivisation’.
Have you ever considered why Robert Earl invested in Everton? He is a Tottenham supporter who has visited Goodison on just a few occasions. He has no affiliation or association to the club so why would he invest £8m, for a minority stake in a business that regularly loses about £10m a year? How does Mr Earl benefit from owning 25% of Everton Football Club?
One final point, please remember that the retail development at Kirkby does not have to be built for Everton to attain the £52m subsidy. The stadium is phased to be built prior to the retail development so clearly a mechanism must already be in place for Everton to glean the benefit of this £52m prior to the stadium being built.
What a disturbing post, so much hatred.
BK is getting slated because he doesn?t understand the merchandising side of the club. Hardly surprising - he?s an actor. Me I am a business man but I couldn?t put a play on for shit. Not that I want him to stay around, I don?t. But I can?t stand the level of unfounded insults that I see here.
Kenwright saved the club from possible destruction, we should thank him for that. Sadly he did it, as he says, because of his heart not his head. Because he is not a business man he has hired people to do certain jobs, and they have failed him.
As for selling up, I hope it happens sooner or later, but I can see two problems. Firstly, it is quite possible that BK is looking at every potential investor as being another Johnson. I know I would if I were in his shoes.
BK is getting slated because he doesn?t understand the merchandising side of the club. Hardly surprising - he?s an actor. Me I am a business man but I couldn?t put a play on for shit. Not that I want him to stay around, I don?t. But I can?t stand the level of unfounded insults that I see here.
Kenwright saved the club from possible destruction, we should thank him for that. Sadly he did it, as he says, because of his heart not his head. Because he is not a business man he has hired people to do certain jobs, and they have failed him.
As for selling up, I hope it happens sooner or later, but I can see two problems. Firstly, it is quite possible that BK is looking at every potential investor as being another Johnson. I know I would if I were in his shoes.
Secondly I kind of understand the whole Liverpool thing. Comparing our situation to the City / United thing misses one important factor. We do not have the word Liverpool in our name. Give a foreign investor the EPL table and ask him which clubs come from Manchester and he will tell you, ask him which clubs come from Liverpool and unless he knows his football he will only name one - and it won?t be us.
As for London clubs, they get foreign investors for the same reason they get more of the foreign players than we do. Because it is London ? that is the one and only reason. To my mind there is only one club to compare with ourselves ? Aston Villa. Find out why Randy bought out them and then follow their example.
If you want to criticise BK, blame him for the people he employs, blame him for letting his heart rule his head, and blame him for either believing everything KW tells him, or for being a liar himself. I don?t know the answer to that. The part of me that thanks him for saving the club wants it to be the former. The part of me that hates the way that the Kirkby move has been handled believes it?s the latter.
Finally, please don?t insult fellow Evertonians for their opinions, just because I don?t agree with you doesn?t make either one of us right, nor does it make us better than the other. We all love our club the same ? sometimes we just see things differently. That's all.
I cannot say Bill Kenwright has been a fantastic chairman who has transformed us dramatically, but I have to say he has steadied the ship. I would say he has done some really good things and some pretty crap things, but in my opinion he has done more good than bad.
Some of the usual suspects ( Gavin etc) would have us believe that we were only £5 million in debt when Bill took over - complete rubbish, it was a lot more than that, and they know it. Don?t you remember us having to sell Big Dunc etc cos the banks were calling in some of our debts? Bill also deserves tremendous credit for appointing and sticking with Moysie when things weren?t going so well.
On the flip side, we missed out big time when we missed out on the King?s Dock. I am not convinced Kirkby is such a good move for us and would prefer us to stay in the city. But I am torn because the real income for a football club these days is corporate. When I look at the crowds at Goodison, we sell as many kits, pies, pints etc as any club, yet our ticket prices are so low that a full house at Goodsion is the equivalent of Chelsea having 13,000 fans in their stadium on a match day.
We need the income streams from parking, conference facilities etc that we just don?t get at Goodison, where our only income is on a matchday. The new stadium is crucial and would make us money 7 days a week if it?s in the right location, but I feel we?ve missed the boat, what with the credit crunch and the increased price of steel, land etc, plus all the objections, I can?t see us moving.
And that is where Bill has messed up, because investors know this. They are not going to buy us knowing that they have to build a new stadium ? unless we are lucky and get a tycoon who has a few hundred million to throw away.
However, I don?t think any fair-minded person could blame Bill for our debt now standing at around £60 million. Football has changed since the Bosman, with average players now earning £40,000 a week and transfer fees spiralling out of control. To keep up we have had to pay inflated fees and wages, and without the money to fund it Bill has had to increase our debt to do this.
We are stuck though because no-one seems to want to buy us, which is very worrying! I honestly believe this is the problem, I don?t believe Bill is a control freak who wants to stay in charge. I don?t see any easy solution...
Graham Atherton - Birmingham population 3.3M?! You?re havin? a laff there mate. The whole of the West Midlands is 5M. Try just over 1M for B?ham itself.
Anyway, we?re all in the Liverpool City Region now...Terry Leahy and Wyness say so. That?s a population of 4M+ right there.
Lies, damn lies and statistics, eh?
;-)
Anyway, we?re all in the Liverpool City Region now...Terry Leahy and Wyness say so. That?s a population of 4M+ right there.
Lies, damn lies and statistics, eh?
;-)
I tend to agree with Danny Broderick. I just don?t see the club as a saleable commodity. Desperate for a new ground, assets all mortgaged, hefty level of debt ? you?d have to be an idiot to take it on! Kenwright is stuck with it and can only hope that Moyes doesn?t lose patience with him. If that happens, it?s curtains for certain!
Just to dissapoint you all, the majority of last week's meeting backed BK and gave him a massive cheer and round of applause. I don't think his answers were very good especially on Kirkby. He knows he is fighting above his weight that's why he wants out.
Tony Marsh, have a bit more respect for people who don't agree with you. I respect the No's ? i just feel they have been lead down the wrong path; you should have directed your anger at LCC they had the power to do something.
Seems a lot of fans can't take it that the majority are happy to live with the move if it gives us a fighting chance to get new investment. Again, the more personal you get with your attacks proves you lack substance for your view. That?s why we have never seen home or away any signs (other than a small plane) of a protest by the core of Evertonians, that tells me we are content with what's on offer. COYB no matter who you voted for.
Reading the blind and bitter and unbalanced hatred above, I was half expecting Bill and Keith to be blamed for kidnapping Joey’s brother. Maybe it’s just a matter of time.
I read constantly on here how BK and Kw are supposedly "bleeding the club dry" or "selling the family silver"...They are castigated by the same old names...cowardly comments like "lying Bastard" seem to crop up..obviously with no fear of reprisal... almost reminiscent of the arsehole that called Carragher a bottler , then shit himself when the guy called in..
I suppose the thing that irks me the most about all the conspiracy theorists and add to them the "Moyes out" brigade and the doom-mongers is that these same people idolise the very people that areactually "bleeding the game dry" and that's the players....
A question most commonly asked of our club is: How do we not have the money to compete in the transfer market?
£14 million in prize money
£35 million in TV money
Maybe £15 million in gate receipts...
Surely we are rolling in it...?
But no... even with one of the smallest squads in the Premier League,we still pay out too much in wages. Yakubu, AJ, Cahill, Lescott, Yobo, Arteta, Baines are all on around £50,000 a week. Throw in Neville , Jagielka, Hibbert, Osman, Piennaar, Howard, AVDM on £30,000 a week, 8 others on between £5 and £20 grand a week... Moyes on £35-50 grand a week... Electricity , policing for every home game, transport, stadium upkeep, assistant coaches and youth set up, scouts, agents fees..etc......And out of that you are left with about £10-15 million, before we pay the mortgage.which is what 3-6 mill a year?
So if you buy a star ? anyone approaching a big name ?he wants big bucks, and you can bet your life that the biggest idols of all have it in their contracts that they get parity with any newcomers.....
I laughed at the red shite when Stevie G was doing the hokey cokey with Chelsea and came out with the whopper, " I just want the club to show it loves me as much as I love it, I have to think of my family's future"...
Or in English: "I'm a greedy twat and I want £120,000 a week, cos my mate Rio gets it and so does Fat Frank..."
That is where all of my money goes.... not to KW, certainly not to BK, but unfortunately to AVDM. And the only time the contracts they sign are worth a fart is on the players terms.
So if you want to boo or hiss or find a villain, a reason why we cant afford a new ground without a retail partner, look on the pitch: you all seem to ask the board to justify anything and everything they do; we should ask the greedy bastards on the pitch to justify taking so much of my (very) hard-earned.
I suppose the thing that irks me the most about all the conspiracy theorists and add to them the "Moyes out" brigade and the doom-mongers is that these same people idolise the very people that areactually "bleeding the game dry" and that's the players....
A question most commonly asked of our club is: How do we not have the money to compete in the transfer market?
£14 million in prize money
£35 million in TV money
Maybe £15 million in gate receipts...
Surely we are rolling in it...?
But no... even with one of the smallest squads in the Premier League,we still pay out too much in wages. Yakubu, AJ, Cahill, Lescott, Yobo, Arteta, Baines are all on around £50,000 a week. Throw in Neville , Jagielka, Hibbert, Osman, Piennaar, Howard, AVDM on £30,000 a week, 8 others on between £5 and £20 grand a week... Moyes on £35-50 grand a week... Electricity , policing for every home game, transport, stadium upkeep, assistant coaches and youth set up, scouts, agents fees..etc......And out of that you are left with about £10-15 million, before we pay the mortgage.which is what 3-6 mill a year?
So if you buy a star ? anyone approaching a big name ?he wants big bucks, and you can bet your life that the biggest idols of all have it in their contracts that they get parity with any newcomers.....
I laughed at the red shite when Stevie G was doing the hokey cokey with Chelsea and came out with the whopper, " I just want the club to show it loves me as much as I love it, I have to think of my family's future"...
Or in English: "I'm a greedy twat and I want £120,000 a week, cos my mate Rio gets it and so does Fat Frank..."
That is where all of my money goes.... not to KW, certainly not to BK, but unfortunately to AVDM. And the only time the contracts they sign are worth a fart is on the players terms.
So if you want to boo or hiss or find a villain, a reason why we cant afford a new ground without a retail partner, look on the pitch: you all seem to ask the board to justify anything and everything they do; we should ask the greedy bastards on the pitch to justify taking so much of my (very) hard-earned.
The "blind and bitter and unbalanced hatred"?? Funny that, I see only the words of people who have had as much as they can stomach of half-truths and distortion of reality and can't accept that any longer.
Depends on your viewpoint I expect.
Depends on your viewpoint I expect.
Alan Willo - to be honest, I?d plough a middle path on believing what I?m reading on the now notorious ESCLA meeting. Some do seem excitable about it; others seem to be defending BK to the hilt - and I?d place you in the latter category. But I?ve read on here and other forums the words of people whom I respect and figure to be giving an unalloyed account, and that?s telling me that Kenwright was vague and aloof from all concerns of his fellow supporters regarding the biggest decision in the club?s history.
Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he had more pressing matters on his mind.... like how the new Joseph is getting on with that technicolour dreamcoat?
Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he had more pressing matters on his mind.... like how the new Joseph is getting on with that technicolour dreamcoat?
If everyone hates Kenwright so much, do something about it!!!!! Organise a boycott or a peaceful protest about his position if you think his leadership is so poor!!!!! Actions supposedly speak louder than words and all that!!!!
David, I think "blind and bitter and unbalanced" is when, as has been said, Bill gets all the blame for anything that’s gone wrong and none of the credit for anything that’s gone right.
If the role of a Chairman is, first of all, to select the manager, then calling selecting and standing by Moyes "luck" - THAT is blind and bitter and unbalanced.
In terms of "distortion of reality" - well, people who argue that Kirkby will be a financial disaster and Bill will make a financial killing? (Perhaps that’s just not being in touch with reality.)
If the role of a Chairman is, first of all, to select the manager, then calling selecting and standing by Moyes "luck" - THAT is blind and bitter and unbalanced.
In terms of "distortion of reality" - well, people who argue that Kirkby will be a financial disaster and Bill will make a financial killing? (Perhaps that’s just not being in touch with reality.)
Neil,
I commend you for your unwavering support for BK and believe it or not I do believe in looking at the good in people rather than the bad but I think you?re really digging out the old chestnut by saying he appointed Moyes.
He also appointed Wyness depite his reputation and between them they have given Moyes an average of £4.5 million a year for players. Hardly in keeping with top 10 let alone top 6 and hardly in keeping with supporting your manager is it?
My main problem with BK is not the fact he has no money but I can?t stand liars and the man can't stop lying.
Throw that in with his incompetence and you have a recipe for disaster.
I commend you for your unwavering support for BK and believe it or not I do believe in looking at the good in people rather than the bad but I think you?re really digging out the old chestnut by saying he appointed Moyes.
He also appointed Wyness depite his reputation and between them they have given Moyes an average of £4.5 million a year for players. Hardly in keeping with top 10 let alone top 6 and hardly in keeping with supporting your manager is it?
My main problem with BK is not the fact he has no money but I can?t stand liars and the man can't stop lying.
Throw that in with his incompetence and you have a recipe for disaster.
Just one thing, Kenwright is the majority shareholder in a private company and as such doesn?t really have to know anything about the company if he doesn?t want to.
What he has on the line is his cash investment which may or may not be limited in some way. If the company goes tits up then he will loose his investment. However, he is about to pull off the miracle of bringing total ruination on to Everton whilst still making himself and the CEO lots of money. This is the CEO who has no stake in the buiness yet is still going to make a mint.
If you stand back lots of things that people write on this site just don?t add up.
What he has on the line is his cash investment which may or may not be limited in some way. If the company goes tits up then he will loose his investment. However, he is about to pull off the miracle of bringing total ruination on to Everton whilst still making himself and the CEO lots of money. This is the CEO who has no stake in the buiness yet is still going to make a mint.
If you stand back lots of things that people write on this site just don?t add up.
Osmo Tapio,
Is ESCF still alive? Or Bullens Bulletin?
It would be great if after years I could join back to the ESFC club!?
Is ESCF still alive? Or Bullens Bulletin?
It would be great if after years I could join back to the ESFC club!?
Had an interesting call from an old Man City friend of mine and he reckons BK sounds more like Peter Swales, when I started thinking about what he said it’s scarily close to the truth, luckily for them he got booted as he too was out of his depth and clinging to his post far too long, I don’t expect the Franny Lee disaster that followed Swales but BK and Swales as a comparison is frightening.
Paul Sherlock makes a good point about the other cities with more than one club and Graham Atherton gave a good measured response. I think my feelings on this latest BS from Bill is a bit more basic.
Did the yanks decide that they wouldn?t buy LFC because Everton were also in the city? No!! So what?s different?
Taking Graham?s point about population on Merseyside and average disposable income, what difference would it make moving to Kirkby anyway. Would we want an owner that didn?t have the balls to stand up for EFC in the city and work to knock LFC off their perch? I reckon this was a smoke screen from Bill and nothing else.
Did the yanks decide that they wouldn?t buy LFC because Everton were also in the city? No!! So what?s different?
Taking Graham?s point about population on Merseyside and average disposable income, what difference would it make moving to Kirkby anyway. Would we want an owner that didn?t have the balls to stand up for EFC in the city and work to knock LFC off their perch? I reckon this was a smoke screen from Bill and nothing else.
Jyrki, the answer is sadly ’no’.
I don't believe a word of this. These are not Kenwright's words at all, I can't believe everyone has been taken in by this made up piece of rubbish!! Let's put it this way, there is no way BK would have left himself open to such ridicule with comments such as these. I would have expected more from you Mr Kenrick than to make up such utter rubbish.
Peter Jones - they?re not the words of Michael Kenrick, they are those of someone from ESCLA who was at that event and they?ve been corroborated by many different people on many forums.
And is it REALLY that hard to believe that a man like Kenwright, given to unguarded outbursts, would utter the statements attributed to him?
Thankfully, I think you?re one of a dwindling number still with their head stuck firmly in the sand on ther subject of Bill Kenwright. Most seem now to have the weight of him.
And is it REALLY that hard to believe that a man like Kenwright, given to unguarded outbursts, would utter the statements attributed to him?
Thankfully, I think you?re one of a dwindling number still with their head stuck firmly in the sand on ther subject of Bill Kenwright. Most seem now to have the weight of him.
David - the populations that could be served by Birmingham FC & Aston Villa FC are the surrounding areas of Birmingham - I did the same for Liverpool and Manchester but not for London.
Bob
Kirkby makes a difference in the number we can fit in - the more the better if you can?t milk more out of individuals then get more of them in the ground. Arsenal et al. can of course do both so it is arguable that we can?t keep up anyway so why bother! Kirkby also increases the possibilities for non-match income and for corporate income - two very useful revenue streams.
It is often said we are the most popular team in Liverpool. Unfortunately Liverpool is too small for us to markedly increase our income and we don?t spend money on merchandising. A prospective buyer will want to see some way of increasing his investment and these figures are poor.
Bob
Kirkby makes a difference in the number we can fit in - the more the better if you can?t milk more out of individuals then get more of them in the ground. Arsenal et al. can of course do both so it is arguable that we can?t keep up anyway so why bother! Kirkby also increases the possibilities for non-match income and for corporate income - two very useful revenue streams.
It is often said we are the most popular team in Liverpool. Unfortunately Liverpool is too small for us to markedly increase our income and we don?t spend money on merchandising. A prospective buyer will want to see some way of increasing his investment and these figures are poor.
Peter - I assume your response to reports concerning the ESCLA AGM is meant to be "ironical".
If not, ask the people who were there what was said - including members who remain supportive of BK. If you have read the thread properly, even they have not dismissed the veracity of the comments shared here.
If not, ask the people who were there what was said - including members who remain supportive of BK. If you have read the thread properly, even they have not dismissed the veracity of the comments shared here.
IT is high time this bloke was ran out of town once and for all. He is not fit to run this club. I don?t care how much he loves the club, I love the club but that doesn?t mean that I could run it. I have always been a supporter of BK but his comments are just ridiculous for a man in his position.
Christ took me ages to read all of that?.
Anyway now for my two pennies worth?..Firstly there are always two sides to every story however in this case maybe BK would have been better answering in more favourable terms rather than getting stroppy with the guys asking the questions.
I can see that been asked to justify your position and being told you are wrong could rub you up the wrong way and would piss you off with the supposed no mark asking you the question. BK probably thought who the fuck are you to ask me that.
Now he was asked questions that I would expect my Chairman to know. I would expect, because of his level of investment that he knew what the potential pitfalls of any planning application were and I would expect him to have mitigated those risks with a plan which matched as closely as possible to the planning authority?s rules. I would then expect, when asked the question, for him to answer in the correct manner and prove he does know what?s going on and that he envisaged this problem and has put in place this plan to alleviate the problem. Answering such a question in such a way would have surely put to bed the concerns surrounding the plan. But for him to say I don?t have a clue is, and I quote DM predecessor ?Disappointing?. It?s opened him up, and quite rightly so to ridicule.
On the merchandise side the answer he gave is just simply shocking. I can?t remember who said it further up on a post but he said something that Everton?s brand isn?t as Strong as some other clubs and that?s we aren?t getting the investment. Well If you don?t advertise you don?t build a brand. Prime example Coca Cola. Everybody knows who they are and what they do but have they stopped advertising? NO! Put simply failing to put Branded merchandise in every possible place for every possible item is nothing but a dereliction of duty for which he is the man responsible. How can you build a brand with no Merchandise??????????
On the responsibility issue. 51% means he?s the major shareholder ? I think we can all at least agree on that. If as the majority shareholder you accept no responsibility how the fuck is your company going to prosper? Your not responsible for 51% of what goes on you are responsible for 100% of it. Having a chairman with no responsibility over his company is a disgrace.
Let?s get on to KW. He?s openly admitted that he can broker deals on behalf of EFC. He?s the lead on the Kirkby Project and the man in charge of the balance sheet.
How many of you have gone to compare.com for you car insurance? That many fuck me?.so you do know that compare.com act as a broker for the companies on their site. That means when you buy car insurance through compare.com, compare.com get commission for brokering the deal with you. They earn money doing it.
If KW can broker deals for EFC in which he will personally gain how he can be open and transparent and not have a conflict of interest is beyond me. In other words how can KW make a decision on the move with EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUBS best interests at heart? The Answer in simple terms is he can?t.
I think everyone knows I?m a no voter?.how do I stand with regards to BK?well you know what, I?d like to say I think he?s a nice guy?.actually I?ve met him a couple of times and he?s always been very affable and kind with his time. SO on a personal note I like the guy. From a business point of view. I think he?s treading water and getting very tired. I don?t think he ever grasped what the job would entail. I don?t think he ever envisaged being in it this long. I also think he?s failed to deliver on to many ?promises? and accepting no responsibility over DK should put the final nail in his Chairmanship coffin. IMO
What is my view on KW? Well the mans a liar. End of. Again IMO
Anyway now for my two pennies worth?..Firstly there are always two sides to every story however in this case maybe BK would have been better answering in more favourable terms rather than getting stroppy with the guys asking the questions.
I can see that been asked to justify your position and being told you are wrong could rub you up the wrong way and would piss you off with the supposed no mark asking you the question. BK probably thought who the fuck are you to ask me that.
Now he was asked questions that I would expect my Chairman to know. I would expect, because of his level of investment that he knew what the potential pitfalls of any planning application were and I would expect him to have mitigated those risks with a plan which matched as closely as possible to the planning authority?s rules. I would then expect, when asked the question, for him to answer in the correct manner and prove he does know what?s going on and that he envisaged this problem and has put in place this plan to alleviate the problem. Answering such a question in such a way would have surely put to bed the concerns surrounding the plan. But for him to say I don?t have a clue is, and I quote DM predecessor ?Disappointing?. It?s opened him up, and quite rightly so to ridicule.
On the merchandise side the answer he gave is just simply shocking. I can?t remember who said it further up on a post but he said something that Everton?s brand isn?t as Strong as some other clubs and that?s we aren?t getting the investment. Well If you don?t advertise you don?t build a brand. Prime example Coca Cola. Everybody knows who they are and what they do but have they stopped advertising? NO! Put simply failing to put Branded merchandise in every possible place for every possible item is nothing but a dereliction of duty for which he is the man responsible. How can you build a brand with no Merchandise??????????
On the responsibility issue. 51% means he?s the major shareholder ? I think we can all at least agree on that. If as the majority shareholder you accept no responsibility how the fuck is your company going to prosper? Your not responsible for 51% of what goes on you are responsible for 100% of it. Having a chairman with no responsibility over his company is a disgrace.
Let?s get on to KW. He?s openly admitted that he can broker deals on behalf of EFC. He?s the lead on the Kirkby Project and the man in charge of the balance sheet.
How many of you have gone to compare.com for you car insurance? That many fuck me?.so you do know that compare.com act as a broker for the companies on their site. That means when you buy car insurance through compare.com, compare.com get commission for brokering the deal with you. They earn money doing it.
If KW can broker deals for EFC in which he will personally gain how he can be open and transparent and not have a conflict of interest is beyond me. In other words how can KW make a decision on the move with EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUBS best interests at heart? The Answer in simple terms is he can?t.
I think everyone knows I?m a no voter?.how do I stand with regards to BK?well you know what, I?d like to say I think he?s a nice guy?.actually I?ve met him a couple of times and he?s always been very affable and kind with his time. SO on a personal note I like the guy. From a business point of view. I think he?s treading water and getting very tired. I don?t think he ever grasped what the job would entail. I don?t think he ever envisaged being in it this long. I also think he?s failed to deliver on to many ?promises? and accepting no responsibility over DK should put the final nail in his Chairmanship coffin. IMO
What is my view on KW? Well the mans a liar. End of. Again IMO
Firstly, I went to the meeting with a fair degree of scepticism in mind, but prepared to give BK a fair hearing. Nor would I be happy with a Shinawatra/Abramovitch clone as a replacement and I was happy to see the back of Gregg. However, as various posters have stated, BK?s lack of knowledge of the club?s day-to-day business affairs and general attitude were, frankly, alarming. His inability to meet even mild criticism with anything other than disdain and dismissal was an insult.
Not only has my opposition to the Kirkby fiasco been finally fully confirmed but also quite definitely of the opinion that he (and KW) needs to be replaced as a matter of urgency. His general attitude was one of having had enough of it all. Fair enough..... some of the personal insults he and his family have no doubt suffered are completely indefensible, but the accusations of a lack of transparency (at the very least) and financial mismanagement are fully justified.
And as for the comments that his critics were in a minority at the meeting, we?ll never know, as I and all those who were with me (3 out of 4 of whom share all of my views) also joined in with the round of applause. This does not mean in any way that I will further give any benefit of the doubt to the way in which he and KW are running the club.
BK; in the name of the Holy Trinity, go now.
Couple of points:
Kenwright is the chairman of the board. He personally owns just over a quarter of the club so is just about the biggest shareholder but doesn’t have anything like overall control - that power is in three hands.
He has regularly said he sees himself as a ’figurehead’ rather than being the man to drive the club forwards. His are hands that have steadied the club, seen it through the awful levels of debt he inherited (including players on large, long contracts that we couldn’t afford) and indeed have put it in remarkable health for the time being.
He knows and we know we need more than he can give to take the next step - he has said it on several occasions.
The club isn’t going to be easy to sell, it needs to demonstrate it has the capacity to improve. We are doing that on the pitch and need to do it off the pitch.
Gregg is on record saying that if Kenwright had a fault it was showing too much loyalty to past board members. I believe that board were much too conservative and that the turmoil of the Johnson era followed by Gregg/Kenwright infighting has badly wounded the club.
Gregg also said that those days had been put behind them when TBH was dissolved - we can only hope that is true. Certainly the last 4-5 years have shown levels of improvement we could only dream about 5 years ago.
Kenwright/Moyes have made their mistakes and learned together?
Kenwright is the chairman of the board. He personally owns just over a quarter of the club so is just about the biggest shareholder but doesn’t have anything like overall control - that power is in three hands.
He has regularly said he sees himself as a ’figurehead’ rather than being the man to drive the club forwards. His are hands that have steadied the club, seen it through the awful levels of debt he inherited (including players on large, long contracts that we couldn’t afford) and indeed have put it in remarkable health for the time being.
He knows and we know we need more than he can give to take the next step - he has said it on several occasions.
The club isn’t going to be easy to sell, it needs to demonstrate it has the capacity to improve. We are doing that on the pitch and need to do it off the pitch.
Gregg is on record saying that if Kenwright had a fault it was showing too much loyalty to past board members. I believe that board were much too conservative and that the turmoil of the Johnson era followed by Gregg/Kenwright infighting has badly wounded the club.
Gregg also said that those days had been put behind them when TBH was dissolved - we can only hope that is true. Certainly the last 4-5 years have shown levels of improvement we could only dream about 5 years ago.
Kenwright/Moyes have made their mistakes and learned together?
BK probably thought who the fuck are you to ask me that.
Is this somehow supposed to be a justification of the mans termerity?
He’s a grinning gobsheen...and the faster he goes the better...fan or no bloody fan!
Is this somehow supposed to be a justification of the mans termerity?
He’s a grinning gobsheen...and the faster he goes the better...fan or no bloody fan!
Peter Jones says..
"I don’t believe a word of this. These are not Kenwright’s words at all, I can’t believe everyone has been taken in by this made up piece of rubbish!! Let’s put it this way, there is no way BK would have left himself open to such ridicule with comments such as these. I would have expected more from you Mr Kenrick than to make up such utter rubbish"
Christ, I wouldn’t like to be around when this feller discovers it was his mam who replaced his baby teeth for cash - not the tooth fairy.
"I don’t believe a word of this. These are not Kenwright’s words at all, I can’t believe everyone has been taken in by this made up piece of rubbish!! Let’s put it this way, there is no way BK would have left himself open to such ridicule with comments such as these. I would have expected more from you Mr Kenrick than to make up such utter rubbish"
Christ, I wouldn’t like to be around when this feller discovers it was his mam who replaced his baby teeth for cash - not the tooth fairy.
Ciarán McGlone wrote: "Is this somehow supposed to be a justification of the mans termerity?"
No Ciaran it?s not. It?s just how I feel now when you question my reasoning for saying it. Like who the fuck are you to question what I put in my post.
Before an argument starts it?s this very point that I am trying to make. If you question somebody in the manner you just questioned me then you get a very different reaction than if you worded your question to me less aggressively. It was an observation.
If you cared to read the rest of what I wrote you would have noticed that I am with you in that he has to go.... I just said it nicely I think?
No Ciaran it?s not. It?s just how I feel now when you question my reasoning for saying it. Like who the fuck are you to question what I put in my post.
Before an argument starts it?s this very point that I am trying to make. If you question somebody in the manner you just questioned me then you get a very different reaction than if you worded your question to me less aggressively. It was an observation.
If you cared to read the rest of what I wrote you would have noticed that I am with you in that he has to go.... I just said it nicely I think?
John,
Slight misunderstanding there...that was merely a hypothetical point ....based on the observable inference that you seem to be spot on with your opinion on the moral highground that our so-called chairman seems to adopt.
Ivory towers and all that...
Slight misunderstanding there...that was merely a hypothetical point ....based on the observable inference that you seem to be spot on with your opinion on the moral highground that our so-called chairman seems to adopt.
Ivory towers and all that...
From reading through the emotive discussions that have taken place with regards to the Kenwright interview with ESCLA, it would certainly appear that our chairman is on dodgy ground. The fact that David Moyes is yet to sign an extension to his improved contract suggests that all is not well within the corridors of power on Goodison Road, his transfer budget (or the lack of it) the most likely reason for the protracted delay.
I firmly believe that Kenwright is seeking a buyer, the DK fiasco and its impending collapse being the catalyst for his recent public attack on Gordon Brown and the Labour party. Kenwright knows that if Moyes walks then his position is untenable... the clock on the meter is ticking.
Gavin don?t compare me with that fat ,lying bastard.
John Hughes:
Spot on and thanks for typing it all out so I don’t have to!!!
BK is a nice fella, but that’s not enough. KW is not a nice fella IMO and I don’t trust him either. A potentially disastrous situation.
Spot on and thanks for typing it all out so I don’t have to!!!
BK is a nice fella, but that’s not enough. KW is not a nice fella IMO and I don’t trust him either. A potentially disastrous situation.
Ciaran,
No Probs mate....
No Probs mate....
I thought he was supposed to be an actor?
He?s not very good is he?
Why would all those investors call him and say "just to let you know, we want to buy Liverpool". If he does want to sell, then the best idea would indeed be to stay in the boundaries of the city, simply because of Liverpool 08 and the way the city is having redevelopment throughout the city center.
Also with the way Everton has improved in the last few seasons like getting into Europe twice on the run and making a dangerously close attempt at breaking into the "top 4" which would cause quite an upset to many people throughout football.
So why wouldn?t anyone want to buy, we?ve heard of the investors he?s turned down in the past including the South Africans a few months ago, so it does make you wonder how Mr Bill Kenwright?s mind works. Hopefully if he does, it won?t be to the kind of owners LFC or Chelsea have been burdened with.
He?s obviously wanted to sell for a while, which is yet another lie he?s tried his best to hide (and succeeded).
He?s not very good is he?
Why would all those investors call him and say "just to let you know, we want to buy Liverpool". If he does want to sell, then the best idea would indeed be to stay in the boundaries of the city, simply because of Liverpool 08 and the way the city is having redevelopment throughout the city center.
Also with the way Everton has improved in the last few seasons like getting into Europe twice on the run and making a dangerously close attempt at breaking into the "top 4" which would cause quite an upset to many people throughout football.
So why wouldn?t anyone want to buy, we?ve heard of the investors he?s turned down in the past including the South Africans a few months ago, so it does make you wonder how Mr Bill Kenwright?s mind works. Hopefully if he does, it won?t be to the kind of owners LFC or Chelsea have been burdened with.
He?s obviously wanted to sell for a while, which is yet another lie he?s tried his best to hide (and succeeded).
Not sure which is more laughable ? the collective ego of The Haters (cabbies, IT Middle Managers and Call Centre workers to a man) who?ll tell you without a trace of self-awareness that if only Bill had done A, B or C we?d have been turning huge profits for years and Champions League winners the last five seasons running to boot. Which clearly we would have done because The Haters have so much experience of running companies and football clubs the size of Everton. A thread that at times has read like a particularly gruesome episode of The Apprentice; ?Pick me please, Sir Alan! I know what needs doing. Honest?.
The other rib-tickler is The Haters? genuine sense of grievance that they?re not consulted on or made privy to every single decision taken within our boardroom. Whether it?s Bill wanting to change the type of bog roll in the executive karzies or the finer details of the players?contracts The Haters think they should be told. To keep these fellows out of the loop is a no-no; sort of like violating their rights as cyberspace truth warriors.
I got to a point very quickly in reading all of the above posts where the bile and bitterness was making my eyes swim and found I could only continue to read if I adopted the voice in my head of that Harry Enfield ?You didn?t want to do that? character from a few years back. You know the one ? the smartarse who always knew a better way do to things.
Bill is no genius (name me a chairman who is) but in all fairness he could probably do with some help. So, I?ve forwarded him a few names from here and hopefully he?ll be in touch. Who knows he may end up binning Keith, we?ll make some much needed savings on his salary and The Haters? wisdom will help power us to untold glory (at L4 4EL, naturally).
The other rib-tickler is The Haters? genuine sense of grievance that they?re not consulted on or made privy to every single decision taken within our boardroom. Whether it?s Bill wanting to change the type of bog roll in the executive karzies or the finer details of the players?contracts The Haters think they should be told. To keep these fellows out of the loop is a no-no; sort of like violating their rights as cyberspace truth warriors.
I got to a point very quickly in reading all of the above posts where the bile and bitterness was making my eyes swim and found I could only continue to read if I adopted the voice in my head of that Harry Enfield ?You didn?t want to do that? character from a few years back. You know the one ? the smartarse who always knew a better way do to things.
Bill is no genius (name me a chairman who is) but in all fairness he could probably do with some help. So, I?ve forwarded him a few names from here and hopefully he?ll be in touch. Who knows he may end up binning Keith, we?ll make some much needed savings on his salary and The Haters? wisdom will help power us to untold glory (at L4 4EL, naturally).
FAO Tony Waverleas:
Were you at the meeting? If not, on what basis do you disbelieve the comments made by those who attended, including myself? Blind faith, by any chance?
I certainly don’t class myself as a "hater" of BK, but I certainly don’t have any more faith in his ability to run this club after listening to half an hour of waffle followed by an iniability to answer pertinent (and not finiancially sensitive) questions on the most important issue this club has faced in my lifetime.
Were you at the meeting? If not, on what basis do you disbelieve the comments made by those who attended, including myself? Blind faith, by any chance?
I certainly don’t class myself as a "hater" of BK, but I certainly don’t have any more faith in his ability to run this club after listening to half an hour of waffle followed by an iniability to answer pertinent (and not finiancially sensitive) questions on the most important issue this club has faced in my lifetime.
Tony,
Are you suggesting in your own little condescending way that you object to people criticising the way the club is managed?
If so, I think you’ll find you belong to a group know as ’the sycophantic and naive knobheads’...and there’s nothing that gets on ’the haters’ nerves more than your type...
Are you suggesting in your own little condescending way that you object to people criticising the way the club is managed?
If so, I think you’ll find you belong to a group know as ’the sycophantic and naive knobheads’...and there’s nothing that gets on ’the haters’ nerves more than your type...
Tony,
it is not hatred to see a man as he is .....A proven incompetent liar.
I liked the man in the beginning even though he had no money but the string of lies and deceipt even to his friends is endless.
When proven budinessmen like Paul Gregg and Philip Green start abandoning him after being taken in by his bullshit intitially that should tell you all you need to know about the man.
it is not hatred to see a man as he is .....A proven incompetent liar.
I liked the man in the beginning even though he had no money but the string of lies and deceipt even to his friends is endless.
When proven budinessmen like Paul Gregg and Philip Green start abandoning him after being taken in by his bullshit intitially that should tell you all you need to know about the man.
The only reason we are not in the championship or even lower right now is because of 1 man and 1 man only, David Moyes. Anyone who says BK come in and stabilised the club has got to be joking, the only reason we got Moyes’y is because Kenwright did not want to spend money on getting an experienced premier league manager at the time. Moyes’y worked wonder on one of the tightest bufgets in the prem. I wasn’t at the Q&A but some of his answers sound like he is taking the piss, it is about time he set sail but i cant see it happening, well not until he gets a massive offer that is ! Also, Wtf has took the kit so long to come out, Joke !
Get some midfielders in or we might struggle next season!!!
COYB
Get some midfielders in or we might struggle next season!!!
COYB
I ’ad that Tony Waverleas in the back o’ me cab once
Strangest thing, he complained about the rain, but it was dead sunny.
When I said "don’t you mean the heat?" he thought for a minute then burst into tears and screamed "NO THE RAIN!!!"
I let him out and he legged it into Tesco, arms outstretched, tears streaming down his crimson cheeks, yelling "Daaaddy, Daaaaady!!"....like that.
I tell you, I NEVER want to go through that again,
Strangest thing, he complained about the rain, but it was dead sunny.
When I said "don’t you mean the heat?" he thought for a minute then burst into tears and screamed "NO THE RAIN!!!"
I let him out and he legged it into Tesco, arms outstretched, tears streaming down his crimson cheeks, yelling "Daaaddy, Daaaaady!!"....like that.
I tell you, I NEVER want to go through that again,
St Domingo ? I thought one of the rules on here was to post using your real name, but hey-ho. Still, it?s a perfect example of someone who demands truth and transparency from Bill but does so hiding behind a false name. Which is kind of ironic isn?t it, St? Or is it just Dom?
No, St., I wasn?t at the meeting ? don?t recall saying I was either ? but then again neither were the majority of the contributors to this thread so your point is what exactly? Furthermore, I look forward to you proving I said I doubted the truth of the reported comments from your meeting. Again, Dom, save yourself the trouble looking because I didn?t say that either.
Ciaran ? Dear me, is the potty-mouthed personal abuse really so necessary? Still, nice to see you?ve appointed yourself spokesperson for the haters; a fictional group I?d invented for the purposes of my ?condescending? post but one which your comments seem to confirm actually exist. Which (and I hate to repeat myself here) is kind of ironic, don?t you think?
No, St., I wasn?t at the meeting ? don?t recall saying I was either ? but then again neither were the majority of the contributors to this thread so your point is what exactly? Furthermore, I look forward to you proving I said I doubted the truth of the reported comments from your meeting. Again, Dom, save yourself the trouble looking because I didn?t say that either.
Ciaran ? Dear me, is the potty-mouthed personal abuse really so necessary? Still, nice to see you?ve appointed yourself spokesperson for the haters; a fictional group I?d invented for the purposes of my ?condescending? post but one which your comments seem to confirm actually exist. Which (and I hate to repeat myself here) is kind of ironic, don?t you think?
Tony,
My point is that you jump to the defence of BK while completely disregarding the comments of the people who actually attended the meeting and witnessed his embarassing lack of knowledge of several key issues, while at the same time trying to mask it with put-downs and barely veiled insults to those who had the temerity to question him.
I could add that your kneejerk defence of BK is laughable, but then I’d only be resorting to the same tactics as you.
Incidentally, don’t you think that trying to sidetrack this thread into a pointless discussion on forum "etiquette" somewhat undermines your defence of St William?
My point is that you jump to the defence of BK while completely disregarding the comments of the people who actually attended the meeting and witnessed his embarassing lack of knowledge of several key issues, while at the same time trying to mask it with put-downs and barely veiled insults to those who had the temerity to question him.
I could add that your kneejerk defence of BK is laughable, but then I’d only be resorting to the same tactics as you.
Incidentally, don’t you think that trying to sidetrack this thread into a pointless discussion on forum "etiquette" somewhat undermines your defence of St William?
Tony,
Your perception is spell binding...perhaps you’d condescendingly also like to predict the existence of people who like cheese as an affront to your being.... then point out the irony whenever someone actually says they don’t like people who dont like cheese..
Because that makes about as much sense as your posts mate.
Your perception is spell binding...perhaps you’d condescendingly also like to predict the existence of people who like cheese as an affront to your being.... then point out the irony whenever someone actually says they don’t like people who dont like cheese..
Because that makes about as much sense as your posts mate.
Tony
perhaps you would like to enlighten us with what truth or transparency has ever come out of BK?s mouth.
Then you might have a point but in the meantime putting down the opposition by calling them haters or worse is no way to get your views appreciated and calling for the editors to delete some contributors whose points you don't like is like the action of a drowning man.
perhaps you would like to enlighten us with what truth or transparency has ever come out of BK?s mouth.
Then you might have a point but in the meantime putting down the opposition by calling them haters or worse is no way to get your views appreciated and calling for the editors to delete some contributors whose points you don't like is like the action of a drowning man.
St Domingo
I asked you to prove I said I was at the meeting. You couldn’t because I didn’t.
I asked you to prove I’d said I doubted the truth of the comments reported on here by those who were actually there. You couldn’t because I didn’t.
So, I’ll give you another chance and ask you to prove with direct quotes from my posts exactly how I’ve "jumpe(d) to the defence of BK". Good luck with that by the way.
Oh, and incidentally I’m trying to sidetrack nothing. There’s a line of text on this page requesting contributors "provide your full name" as well as another similar one next to the box asking for your full name that states "First and Last names, no nicknames" so if you think I’m being arsey about all this perhaps you should take it up with Lyndon or Michael.
You see, St/Dom/Whoever it’s about having a bit of respect for your fellow contibutors not to hide behind snidey pseudonyms.
Although you doubtless fail/refuse to see how rich it is to imply Bill has been less than honest when you yourself hide behind a false name.
EJ - I take it from your biting satire you think I’m totally behind DK? As I’ve never contributed a single post on any DK thread I’m not sure how you’ve reached that conclusion. Although I could
probably guess it goes something like "He hasn’t accused BK of being a lying scumbag out to to line his own pockets at the club’s expense so therefore he’s a traitor who wants to drag us to oblivion and ruin in Kirkby". Am I right? You’re not Derren Brown by the way are you?
I asked you to prove I said I was at the meeting. You couldn’t because I didn’t.
I asked you to prove I’d said I doubted the truth of the comments reported on here by those who were actually there. You couldn’t because I didn’t.
So, I’ll give you another chance and ask you to prove with direct quotes from my posts exactly how I’ve "jumpe(d) to the defence of BK". Good luck with that by the way.
Oh, and incidentally I’m trying to sidetrack nothing. There’s a line of text on this page requesting contributors "provide your full name" as well as another similar one next to the box asking for your full name that states "First and Last names, no nicknames" so if you think I’m being arsey about all this perhaps you should take it up with Lyndon or Michael.
You see, St/Dom/Whoever it’s about having a bit of respect for your fellow contibutors not to hide behind snidey pseudonyms.
Although you doubtless fail/refuse to see how rich it is to imply Bill has been less than honest when you yourself hide behind a false name.
EJ - I take it from your biting satire you think I’m totally behind DK? As I’ve never contributed a single post on any DK thread I’m not sure how you’ve reached that conclusion. Although I could
probably guess it goes something like "He hasn’t accused BK of being a lying scumbag out to to line his own pockets at the club’s expense so therefore he’s a traitor who wants to drag us to oblivion and ruin in Kirkby". Am I right? You’re not Derren Brown by the way are you?
Tony,
You?re just not worth this must effort. Distortion and obfuscation are obviously your fortes, not forgetting an extremely exaggerated sense of your own importance. My original (admittedly rhetorical) question was to ask if you were at the ESCLA meeting. Given that you weren?t, you still see fit to castigate those who were and asked critical questions of BK, in return for which they were subjected to the same sort of disdain as you are showing now.
If you seriously think that using a pseudonym on a website compares in any way to the disinformation that has been circulated about Kirkby, then you?re even sadder than you seem. In the meantime, crack on and enjoy your dreamworld.
You?re just not worth this must effort. Distortion and obfuscation are obviously your fortes, not forgetting an extremely exaggerated sense of your own importance. My original (admittedly rhetorical) question was to ask if you were at the ESCLA meeting. Given that you weren?t, you still see fit to castigate those who were and asked critical questions of BK, in return for which they were subjected to the same sort of disdain as you are showing now.
If you seriously think that using a pseudonym on a website compares in any way to the disinformation that has been circulated about Kirkby, then you?re even sadder than you seem. In the meantime, crack on and enjoy your dreamworld.
Come on lads, let's give Tony some credit . He has come up with a good idea of putting forward the names of people who could give clueless Blue Bill some help in the boardroom. I suggest Groucho, Chico and Harpo.
I’m sorry but Tony is right about the nickname business. If you are going to post on ToffeeWeb, we need first and last name, please.
Thanks
Thanks
St/Dom/Whoever/International Man of Mystery
With respect I have asked you twice (and now three times) to prove I have done the things you accuse me of namely
1) I claimed I was at the meeting
2) I doubted the truth of the comments reported on here by those who were there
3) That I have ?jump(ed) to the defence of BK
4) That I have ?castigate(d) those were? at the meeting
The fourth thing you?ve accused me of is interesting because in deliberately failing to prove the first three you?ve instead decided to plough on and accuse me of something new (and also untrue). Talk about clouding the issue.
Why is that?
Why also the need for the personal stuff about an ?exaggerated sense of (my) own self importance? and how I live in a ?dreamworld?. Is it necessary? Is it the best way you can think of to answer a polite request that you justify your accusations?
And to think you found Bill?s answers unsatisfactory the other night when you yourself refuse to answer questions put to you. What I have posted is there for all to see so please do me the courtesy of proving with direct quotes that I have said the things you say I have.
Obviously you can?t do that not least because you are wrong but as Michael has now clarified you?ll have to post under your real name. Exciting isn?t it? A bit like when Spiderman has to reveal his true identity to the lovely Mary Jane.
At heart I am probably no bigger fan of BK than anyone else.
What I object to is the personal nature of the abuse slung so casually in his direction by people who both think they know how to run a business the size of Everton (they don?t) and who think they are privy to all the facts (they aren?t).
Is some perspective too much to ask for?
Is it a bad thing to ask for a little respect?
On the other hand I?m thinking of running up a few t-shirts with the slogan ?One Evertonian is worth at least twenty Liverpudlians?? on the front and ??except when it?s that fucking Bill Kenwright? on the back.
Any takers?
With respect I have asked you twice (and now three times) to prove I have done the things you accuse me of namely
1) I claimed I was at the meeting
2) I doubted the truth of the comments reported on here by those who were there
3) That I have ?jump(ed) to the defence of BK
4) That I have ?castigate(d) those were? at the meeting
The fourth thing you?ve accused me of is interesting because in deliberately failing to prove the first three you?ve instead decided to plough on and accuse me of something new (and also untrue). Talk about clouding the issue.
Why is that?
Why also the need for the personal stuff about an ?exaggerated sense of (my) own self importance? and how I live in a ?dreamworld?. Is it necessary? Is it the best way you can think of to answer a polite request that you justify your accusations?
And to think you found Bill?s answers unsatisfactory the other night when you yourself refuse to answer questions put to you. What I have posted is there for all to see so please do me the courtesy of proving with direct quotes that I have said the things you say I have.
Obviously you can?t do that not least because you are wrong but as Michael has now clarified you?ll have to post under your real name. Exciting isn?t it? A bit like when Spiderman has to reveal his true identity to the lovely Mary Jane.
At heart I am probably no bigger fan of BK than anyone else.
What I object to is the personal nature of the abuse slung so casually in his direction by people who both think they know how to run a business the size of Everton (they don?t) and who think they are privy to all the facts (they aren?t).
Is some perspective too much to ask for?
Is it a bad thing to ask for a little respect?
On the other hand I?m thinking of running up a few t-shirts with the slogan ?One Evertonian is worth at least twenty Liverpudlians?? on the front and ??except when it?s that fucking Bill Kenwright? on the back.
Any takers?
Jay
Prove I have asked the editors to "delete some contributors whose points (I)don’t like".
Prove it with direct quotes. (Hint- you can’t because I didn’t). Or are you confusing that with a polite request that Michael/Lyndon’s house rules are observed?
See what I mean? People accuse Bill and Keith of being strangers to the truth but have no problem with being econmical with it themselves if they think it proves a point.
Prove I have asked the editors to "delete some contributors whose points (I)don’t like".
Prove it with direct quotes. (Hint- you can’t because I didn’t). Or are you confusing that with a polite request that Michael/Lyndon’s house rules are observed?
See what I mean? People accuse Bill and Keith of being strangers to the truth but have no problem with being econmical with it themselves if they think it proves a point.
Some good points Tony.
Tony,
You’re confusing criticism with personal abuse in order to backtrack on your initial post - which was little more than a facetious and puerile attempt at personal abuse of a section of fans..
On the basis of this I’ll ask 3 simple questions:
1) do you think respect is automatic or earned?
2) do you think BK has acted with respect towards Everton fans?
and
3) do you think BK is above criticism?
You’re confusing criticism with personal abuse in order to backtrack on your initial post - which was little more than a facetious and puerile attempt at personal abuse of a section of fans..
On the basis of this I’ll ask 3 simple questions:
1) do you think respect is automatic or earned?
2) do you think BK has acted with respect towards Everton fans?
and
3) do you think BK is above criticism?
Ciaran
Firstly I’d ask you to recall your not so subtle implication that I am a "knobhead" - so please drag your arse from the moral high ground and don’t lecture me or anyone else on "facetious and puerile attempts(s) at personal abuse".
As for "confusing criticism with personal abuse" in relation to the above thread, well, a quick trawl through the above finds BK/KW described in the following ways
?bullshitter?
?clown? (twice)
?Bottler Bill?
?lying charlatan?
?prick Whyness? (sic)
?joke?
?embarrassment?
Doubtless you?ll tell me that this is criticism and not personal abuse so I?ll have to assume you were schooled by one of the more militant wings of the Christian Brothers. Furthermore, (and apologies for dragging their names into this) but Martin Cutler, Steve Pugh and Neil Pearse have all voiced similar disquiet about the ?hatred? aimed at BK/KW in the above thread. But I suppose they?re as confused as I am, eh?
As for your questions
1) Yes, respect should be earned. But why does a lack of respect for someone mean personal abuse and name-calling are given the thumbs-up?
2) In all honesty not sure how to answer this. For instance I don?t think DK should have gone to a vote ? the board exists to make hard-nosed decisions and they and they alone should make them. But if I say I think BK was respectful of the fans? opinion in consulting them with the vote you?ll probably have a different opinion. Overall, I think fans are too expectant and make unrealistic demands of Chairmen; go on any messageboard for any club the length and breadth of the country and the fans will be saying the same thing of their Chairmen. Just because you feel you should be consulted on every single issue doesn?t mean it?s going to happen. It?s a big business after all and I don?t think that?s the way big businesses are run.
3) ?At heart I am probably no bigger fan of BK than anyone else? and ?Bill is no genius?. Guess who said that? Me as it happens. Guess where I said it? In the above thread also as it happens So, Ciaran, perhaps you might show me the respect of actually reading what I?ve posted before you question me directly. Or do you just prefer to see what you want to see so?s you can feel justified in inferring people are ?knobhead(s)??
Firstly I’d ask you to recall your not so subtle implication that I am a "knobhead" - so please drag your arse from the moral high ground and don’t lecture me or anyone else on "facetious and puerile attempts(s) at personal abuse".
As for "confusing criticism with personal abuse" in relation to the above thread, well, a quick trawl through the above finds BK/KW described in the following ways
?bullshitter?
?clown? (twice)
?Bottler Bill?
?lying charlatan?
?prick Whyness? (sic)
?joke?
?embarrassment?
Doubtless you?ll tell me that this is criticism and not personal abuse so I?ll have to assume you were schooled by one of the more militant wings of the Christian Brothers. Furthermore, (and apologies for dragging their names into this) but Martin Cutler, Steve Pugh and Neil Pearse have all voiced similar disquiet about the ?hatred? aimed at BK/KW in the above thread. But I suppose they?re as confused as I am, eh?
As for your questions
1) Yes, respect should be earned. But why does a lack of respect for someone mean personal abuse and name-calling are given the thumbs-up?
2) In all honesty not sure how to answer this. For instance I don?t think DK should have gone to a vote ? the board exists to make hard-nosed decisions and they and they alone should make them. But if I say I think BK was respectful of the fans? opinion in consulting them with the vote you?ll probably have a different opinion. Overall, I think fans are too expectant and make unrealistic demands of Chairmen; go on any messageboard for any club the length and breadth of the country and the fans will be saying the same thing of their Chairmen. Just because you feel you should be consulted on every single issue doesn?t mean it?s going to happen. It?s a big business after all and I don?t think that?s the way big businesses are run.
3) ?At heart I am probably no bigger fan of BK than anyone else? and ?Bill is no genius?. Guess who said that? Me as it happens. Guess where I said it? In the above thread also as it happens So, Ciaran, perhaps you might show me the respect of actually reading what I?ve posted before you question me directly. Or do you just prefer to see what you want to see so?s you can feel justified in inferring people are ?knobhead(s)??
Tony Waverleas, I hope you never encounter an aging Home Defense Volunteer by the name of Jones, as you are obviously the type who ?don?t like it up em?.
Someone who can give it, but gets rattled and narked when you have to take it.
You say "...He hasn?t accused BK of being a lying scumbag out to to line his own pockets at the club?s expense so therefore he?s a traitor who wants to drag us to oblivion and ruin in Kirkby. Am I right??
For me, that IS right. Absolutely!
(NB: the truth is not just about what we DO say -hope that?s cleared that up for you..Mr Darrow)
You finish with - ?biting satire? yourself! - ?You?re not Derren Brown by the way are you??
This is strange (and inconsistent) as in an earlier post you?d had a go at a bit of (snotty) Derren Browning yourself.
?Not sure which is more laughable ? the collective ego of The Haters (cabbies, IT Middle Managers and Call Centre workers to a man)?
What a very...erm...Mike Leigh-type thing to say.
Presumably YOU have your own knife-throwing act?
(fingers crossed!’)
Someone who can give it, but gets rattled and narked when you have to take it.
You say "...He hasn?t accused BK of being a lying scumbag out to to line his own pockets at the club?s expense so therefore he?s a traitor who wants to drag us to oblivion and ruin in Kirkby. Am I right??
For me, that IS right. Absolutely!
(NB: the truth is not just about what we DO say -hope that?s cleared that up for you..Mr Darrow)
You finish with - ?biting satire? yourself! - ?You?re not Derren Brown by the way are you??
This is strange (and inconsistent) as in an earlier post you?d had a go at a bit of (snotty) Derren Browning yourself.
?Not sure which is more laughable ? the collective ego of The Haters (cabbies, IT Middle Managers and Call Centre workers to a man)?
What a very...erm...Mike Leigh-type thing to say.
Presumably YOU have your own knife-throwing act?
(fingers crossed!’)
EJ
Give-and-take, banter, right-to-reply call it what you like I’ve got no problem with that. Please prove I’ve ever said otherwise.
What I do object to is personal abuse that strays beyond levels of common decency into name-calling and character assassination.
By the way you sound like you watch an awful lot of tele and cinema; you should get in touch with Bill as I’d say you’ve probably got a lot in common.
Give-and-take, banter, right-to-reply call it what you like I’ve got no problem with that. Please prove I’ve ever said otherwise.
What I do object to is personal abuse that strays beyond levels of common decency into name-calling and character assassination.
By the way you sound like you watch an awful lot of tele and cinema; you should get in touch with Bill as I’d say you’ve probably got a lot in common.
Sorry Tony, but all that (above) it’s totally subjective.
YOU might think it’s more offensive to be called a ’knobhead’ than to suggest people who disagree with your point of view are ’Taxi Drivers’ etc.
But I don’t (see - PROOF it’s subjective).
Oh sure It may not be as ’witty’ or cutting but...so what?
They’re BOTH meant as insults.
(worth remembering Oscar Wilde was a very witty man but never really got ’big laffs’)
Anyway, I think if you enter someone else’s game, you don’t get to decide the rules.
YOU might think it’s more offensive to be called a ’knobhead’ than to suggest people who disagree with your point of view are ’Taxi Drivers’ etc.
But I don’t (see - PROOF it’s subjective).
Oh sure It may not be as ’witty’ or cutting but...so what?
They’re BOTH meant as insults.
(worth remembering Oscar Wilde was a very witty man but never really got ’big laffs’)
Anyway, I think if you enter someone else’s game, you don’t get to decide the rules.
EJ
I asked you to prove I?ve stated on here that I?ve got a problem with give-and-take because you clearly imply I have.
You?ve failed to do that (for your own reasons) so I?ll ask you again.
This a forum and the nature of the beast is that often insults are exchanged. And yes my "cabbies, etc" line was meant as a dig. And I?ve never said it wasn?t unless, of course, you are willing to prove otherwise.
And yes I do think calling someone a "knobhead" is offensive. I doubt I?m alone in that.
But Oscar Wilde? Gosh, you and Bill really will have endless hours of fun. And that?s not an insult it?s just an observation.
I asked you to prove I?ve stated on here that I?ve got a problem with give-and-take because you clearly imply I have.
You?ve failed to do that (for your own reasons) so I?ll ask you again.
This a forum and the nature of the beast is that often insults are exchanged. And yes my "cabbies, etc" line was meant as a dig. And I?ve never said it wasn?t unless, of course, you are willing to prove otherwise.
And yes I do think calling someone a "knobhead" is offensive. I doubt I?m alone in that.
But Oscar Wilde? Gosh, you and Bill really will have endless hours of fun. And that?s not an insult it?s just an observation.
Tony,
Considering your stated opinion that respect is earned, then you?d no doubt agree that your first attempt on this thread did little to earn the respect of the people you attempted to ridicule...therefore I would suggest that the person who was on the moral high ground here was yourself...and my ?knobhead? response, although a parody of your post, was more than merited by your initial attack.
Now lets examine the content of your response. You?ve listed what you consider to be personal abuse. I?m sorry, but unless you are one of the more naive supporters who continue to accept the erroneous soundbites issued by this club prior to the vote....then what you?ve listed is no more than factual descriptives...albeit ones that are communicated with a lack of respect. Now considering the fact that BK or KW have shown nothing short of contempt for the fans in this whole sorry saga...do you not think it?s a little bit short sighted of you to condemn this colourful descriptives in light of the behaviour that has elicited it? As you say, respect is earned!
I would also highlight the fact that 3 people, or any amount of people for that matter being in agreement with your position does little in the way of substantiating it as correct. It is an opinion, nothing else, and a poorly formed one at that. These descriptives may amount to abuse, but they are based upon facts!
In my opinion that puts them fairly and squarely in the realm of criticism, and fairly deserved critism at that.... irrespective of the adjectives used or what the Christian Brothers might say!
The whole point of my 3 questions was an attempt to maybe make you see that Kenwright and Co. have earned little respect by their actions, but in fact have gained contempt... and therefore the response they get can hardly be condemned..
By your, ?I?m no lover of BK? response you seem to have accepted this point... however, you should also realise that addressing the issue of perceived abuse by abusing others is a tad couterproductive... as was illustrated by my ?knobhead? parody.
Considering your stated opinion that respect is earned, then you?d no doubt agree that your first attempt on this thread did little to earn the respect of the people you attempted to ridicule...therefore I would suggest that the person who was on the moral high ground here was yourself...and my ?knobhead? response, although a parody of your post, was more than merited by your initial attack.
Now lets examine the content of your response. You?ve listed what you consider to be personal abuse. I?m sorry, but unless you are one of the more naive supporters who continue to accept the erroneous soundbites issued by this club prior to the vote....then what you?ve listed is no more than factual descriptives...albeit ones that are communicated with a lack of respect. Now considering the fact that BK or KW have shown nothing short of contempt for the fans in this whole sorry saga...do you not think it?s a little bit short sighted of you to condemn this colourful descriptives in light of the behaviour that has elicited it? As you say, respect is earned!
I would also highlight the fact that 3 people, or any amount of people for that matter being in agreement with your position does little in the way of substantiating it as correct. It is an opinion, nothing else, and a poorly formed one at that. These descriptives may amount to abuse, but they are based upon facts!
In my opinion that puts them fairly and squarely in the realm of criticism, and fairly deserved critism at that.... irrespective of the adjectives used or what the Christian Brothers might say!
The whole point of my 3 questions was an attempt to maybe make you see that Kenwright and Co. have earned little respect by their actions, but in fact have gained contempt... and therefore the response they get can hardly be condemned..
By your, ?I?m no lover of BK? response you seem to have accepted this point... however, you should also realise that addressing the issue of perceived abuse by abusing others is a tad couterproductive... as was illustrated by my ?knobhead? parody.
Cairan, you are absolutely 100% on the nail. I was thinking of ways to respond to Tony’s ridiculous claims, and you did it far, far better than I ever could have done. Not that this will finally shut him up, of course...
Tony, for a smarty-pants, it’s odd you don’t understand the difference between ’implying’ something and STATING something.
How did I arrive at this assumption?
Well you say..
"I asked you to prove I?ve stated on here that I?ve got a problem with give-and-take because you clearly imply I have. You?ve failed to do that (for your own reasons) so I?ll ask you again"
Er...failed?
Maybe in Tonyworld.
I pointed out in an earlier post that it’s often what you DON’T say that speaks loudest.
You obviously think (for YOUR own reasons) "As long as I never use a sentence that begins I have a problem with....’ then ’proof’ can never be established"
You’re wrong.
How did I arrive at this assumption?
Well you say..
"I asked you to prove I?ve stated on here that I?ve got a problem with give-and-take because you clearly imply I have. You?ve failed to do that (for your own reasons) so I?ll ask you again"
Er...failed?
Maybe in Tonyworld.
I pointed out in an earlier post that it’s often what you DON’T say that speaks loudest.
You obviously think (for YOUR own reasons) "As long as I never use a sentence that begins I have a problem with....’ then ’proof’ can never be established"
You’re wrong.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with criticism, but some people put it across in an abusive, vacuous way.
Does anyone think I’m 100% on the nail?
I look forward to the usual berrating for having an opinion. Cheers.
Does anyone think I’m 100% on the nail?
I look forward to the usual berrating for having an opinion. Cheers.
That would be the emotion factor Damian...
We’re a passionate lot, especially whenever you consider what we’ve had to endure from the so-called guardians of the club - but I don’t think there’s anger without reason - and I certainly wouldn’t be arrogant enough to suggest this indicates a vacuous argument..it’s simply a forceful way of making a point.
Personally if you are easily offended, I’d suggest not reading the material - as you know these are emotives topics likely to result in the actions you are criticising.
We’re a passionate lot, especially whenever you consider what we’ve had to endure from the so-called guardians of the club - but I don’t think there’s anger without reason - and I certainly wouldn’t be arrogant enough to suggest this indicates a vacuous argument..it’s simply a forceful way of making a point.
Personally if you are easily offended, I’d suggest not reading the material - as you know these are emotives topics likely to result in the actions you are criticising.
Fair enough Ciaran, I can understand the passion and emotion involved. I can well imagine people are angry and with good reason too. It does get heated at times!
COYB
COYB
Ciaran
Respect is earned. We agree on that.
Having little or no respect for someone is the green light to indulge in personal abuse. We disagree on that.
Give-and-take, banter, or parody, etc (and yes I?ve done it myself) on an internet forum is one thing: it?s the reason 99% of them exist. But no matter how deeply held your convictions are I just don?t think it right to sling personal abuse at someone. Especially someone who?s in no position to respond. No matter the strength of your feelings (and for all you really know about me Ciaran my opinions on, say, DK may be identical to your own) it personally sickens me to see the kind of abuse which is on view in the above thread. And before you say it, Ciaran, Bill isn?t going to come on here and respond. He just isn?t. And that probably suits the abusers just fine.
With respect, Ciaran, please don?t flatter yourself that you?ve made me see anything or that I?ve accepted any points you?ve made about Bill or Keith. In the last 35 years I?ve barely missed 3 games at Goodison and have held a season ticket for the last 30 so I?ve been around the place long enough to form my own opinions on the current board or any of the ones before it. But thanks anyway.
Michael
Nice attitude to debate you have. Does this place exist for people to air opinions or is it merely a vehicle for you to tell people to shut up? Or is your disdain reserved for those who don?t bandy about cheap-shots and personal slurs? Charming. If it?s all too stressful for you maybe you should consider your position.
EJ
?Smarty-pants?? Jesus wept. Can you ever reply without indulging in name-calling or snotty remarks about someone?s character? What is it, Tourette?s? Perhaps you should ask Bill to introduce you to our goalie because I believe he?s a fellow sufferer.
As for your ?what you DON?T say speak(ing) the loudest? comment - talk about having your Kimberley biscuits and eating them. Erm, Tony, no I can?t prove you actually said X, Y or Z by quoting something you?ve actually said because, erm you didn?t actually say it, erm, even though you did say it really (repeat ad infinitum). With respect, EJ, I?d say that?s stretching your definition of subjectivity beyond breaking point.
I totally agree with your remark to Damian that these are emotive issues. I also agree that emotive issues lead to strong opinions. Where we?ll have to disagree is the idea that it?s reasonable such opinions are expressed in terms of personal abuse. When people in dispute with one another turn to name-calling then the argument hasn?t been strengthened; it?s been lost.
For the record, and hopefully for the last time, I have no problem whatsoever with individuals on here having a go at one another?s posts or indulging in pastiches of one another?s opinions (how can I when I?ve done it myself?) but I think name?calling and personal abuse is unacceptable. And I?m afraid suggesting if you can?t stand the heat keep out of the kitchen is nothing but an empty cliché.
Respect is earned. We agree on that.
Having little or no respect for someone is the green light to indulge in personal abuse. We disagree on that.
Give-and-take, banter, or parody, etc (and yes I?ve done it myself) on an internet forum is one thing: it?s the reason 99% of them exist. But no matter how deeply held your convictions are I just don?t think it right to sling personal abuse at someone. Especially someone who?s in no position to respond. No matter the strength of your feelings (and for all you really know about me Ciaran my opinions on, say, DK may be identical to your own) it personally sickens me to see the kind of abuse which is on view in the above thread. And before you say it, Ciaran, Bill isn?t going to come on here and respond. He just isn?t. And that probably suits the abusers just fine.
With respect, Ciaran, please don?t flatter yourself that you?ve made me see anything or that I?ve accepted any points you?ve made about Bill or Keith. In the last 35 years I?ve barely missed 3 games at Goodison and have held a season ticket for the last 30 so I?ve been around the place long enough to form my own opinions on the current board or any of the ones before it. But thanks anyway.
Michael
Nice attitude to debate you have. Does this place exist for people to air opinions or is it merely a vehicle for you to tell people to shut up? Or is your disdain reserved for those who don?t bandy about cheap-shots and personal slurs? Charming. If it?s all too stressful for you maybe you should consider your position.
EJ
?Smarty-pants?? Jesus wept. Can you ever reply without indulging in name-calling or snotty remarks about someone?s character? What is it, Tourette?s? Perhaps you should ask Bill to introduce you to our goalie because I believe he?s a fellow sufferer.
As for your ?what you DON?T say speak(ing) the loudest? comment - talk about having your Kimberley biscuits and eating them. Erm, Tony, no I can?t prove you actually said X, Y or Z by quoting something you?ve actually said because, erm you didn?t actually say it, erm, even though you did say it really (repeat ad infinitum). With respect, EJ, I?d say that?s stretching your definition of subjectivity beyond breaking point.
I totally agree with your remark to Damian that these are emotive issues. I also agree that emotive issues lead to strong opinions. Where we?ll have to disagree is the idea that it?s reasonable such opinions are expressed in terms of personal abuse. When people in dispute with one another turn to name-calling then the argument hasn?t been strengthened; it?s been lost.
For the record, and hopefully for the last time, I have no problem whatsoever with individuals on here having a go at one another?s posts or indulging in pastiches of one another?s opinions (how can I when I?ve done it myself?) but I think name?calling and personal abuse is unacceptable. And I?m afraid suggesting if you can?t stand the heat keep out of the kitchen is nothing but an empty cliché.
Okay, Tony, for the final time, you don’t get to decide what is posted on here (or stays on here) and what doesn’t. Personal abuse or pastiche... it’s a very fine and rather wavey line... but, as the Conditions of Use state, it’s an editorial decison. As the Editor, what I dislike is you coming on this website and bitching endlessly about what other people post, rather than addressing the underlying issues and concerns. Discuss the topic; if you disagree with someone,. explain why without making these unnecessary moral judegements. Leave the fretting over personal abuse to us; you can always report it directly if it is that offensive to you.
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1 Posted 05/07/2008 at 18:00:17
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How can a chairman not know what’s going on? Are those 10-15 calls a day like his 24/7; pure fantasy? It all makes very sad reading and lends nothing to his cause as the right man for the job, he’s out of his depth on the money and ability fronts to be running a large company.