NICK ARMITAGE COLUMN
The Big Four Killed My Baby
By Nick Armitage : 23/10/2008 : 
Comments (45) :
Comments (45) : Look at the league table. Depressing isn?t it? It is not only depressing for the lamentable sixteenth position that Everton, deservedly, find themselves in; but depressing because of the sheer predictability of where the big four, the Sky Four, or whatever you want to call them, now also find themselves.
Eight games in and Sky?s Golden Boys already occupy four of the five top spots. After another two or three games they will fill the Champions League places and that will no doubt continue until May when either Manchester United or Chelsea parade the Premiershit trophy around whatever stadium is most accommodating for Andy Gray and Martin Tyler to dry rub themselves into a frenzy in. And is it only me who thinks the BBC have gotten even more biased this season? They don?t even appear to recognise the fact that the big four have opponents on the pitch.
All the fireworks, pyrotechnics and explosions of glitter aren?t going to change the fact that winning the league is about as much of an achievement as your next birthday. Even if Michel Platini forced United and Chelsea to field a blind goalkeeper and a one-legged woman up front in every game, they?d still finish first and second.
In the last decade only three clubs have won the top division title. In over a century of football this has never happened before, but I am sure it will carry on unless things change. But it won?t change ? why should it? The media and the corporates now have what they want - easy money.
I was driving home from work today and I heard Everton on Radio City advertising that tickets for the United game, are now on general sale. Four or five years ago these tickets were like gold dust, but now nobody wants to see their team get webbed everywhere yet again.
So where does all this leave Everton? Nowhere. We have as much clout in the game as Montenegro has at the UN. Even after going one nil up, I knew we?d lose to Arsenal and I didn?t even get angry when the shite cantered to three points against us. On Saturday I will feebly flick the reverse Victory sign towards the Manchester United glory hunters and mutter, ?fuck off, Rooney,? on my way out of Goodison, after their third or fourth zooms past Tim Howard. I don?t know when we next lose to Chelsea and to be frank, I don?t really give a shit.
And my despair and frustration with football at the moment pretty much encapsulates what 95% of real football fans feel about their national game. The national game is a national disgrace. Name one other sport in this country that is as stitched up as football.
But we are told year after year that football is booming, this is the best league in the world, average Premiershit attendances are up and television revenues are soaring. Bullshit. Look a bit deeper, take out the Sky Four and attendances are falling. Around the country apathy is creeping in and it has crept in at Goodison.
If I was Moyes I would have left Everton and got myself a nice little club in Spain, Greece or Turkey in a league where you have a fighting chance of doing something. At Everton he?ll do nothing other than bang his head against the wall for the next five years. Good luck David, but if you were as ambitious as you claim you would have jumped ship a long time ago.
Reader Comments
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Well what do you expect when the big four also have the FA and Referee?s in their arse pocket as well.
Money is not the main issue, it?s the bias shown towards these sides. They are forever getting red cards rescinded, tapping players up, influencing referee?s, the list is endless!!!
Money does help but unless used wisely it will be the ruination of your football club also. Veron £30 miilion, Mendieta £28 Million I could go on??
Fact of the matter is there is rules for them and there is rules for the rest and soon it will be the beginning of the end for the domestic game in this country.
Money is not the main issue, it?s the bias shown towards these sides. They are forever getting red cards rescinded, tapping players up, influencing referee?s, the list is endless!!!
Money does help but unless used wisely it will be the ruination of your football club also. Veron £30 miilion, Mendieta £28 Million I could go on??
Fact of the matter is there is rules for them and there is rules for the rest and soon it will be the beginning of the end for the domestic game in this country.
In order to balance a reply I posted on another thread regarding the Sky 4 results against Everton during David Moyes tenure I did a bit more digging into all fixtures for the corresponding period including Everton?s. It transpires Boro have the most wins with 11 out of 53, followed by Blackburn with 10 and Man City with 9. Wigan have yet to win in 26 attempts. Everton have lost the most 35 with Man City and Fulham next with 33 losses.
Surprisingly, Spurs Villa and Pompey have only won 3, 4 and 5 matches respectively
Out of 823 games played between the Sky 4 and the rest, Sky 4 have won 544 (66%) lost 104 (13%) and drawn 175 (21%). Given these figures it does make you wonder why some officials feel that they have to aid and abet their results.
So even a sugar daddy like Randy Lerner doesn’t appear to help improve results against the chosen ones.
Surprisingly, Spurs Villa and Pompey have only won 3, 4 and 5 matches respectively
Out of 823 games played between the Sky 4 and the rest, Sky 4 have won 544 (66%) lost 104 (13%) and drawn 175 (21%). Given these figures it does make you wonder why some officials feel that they have to aid and abet their results.
So even a sugar daddy like Randy Lerner doesn’t appear to help improve results against the chosen ones.
With regards to us having the worst record against the moneyed four, I was talking to a Man Utd fan of a similar age to myself (38) recently, and he was telling me that manu fans of his age still see Everton as a ?scalp?.
I was wondering if fans of the other three have the same outlook, and is this transmitted to the team on the field of play when they play us?
Of course, this just might partly be me having delusions of grandeur with regards to my team. And the real truth is that were just not very good, or certainly we haven?t been since the introduction of sky football.
Has anybody else come across this attitude to Everton within their dealings of other football fans?
You are right Nick - the Premier League is total crap at present. Destroyed by money. The thing is everyone knows this really but it is the television and media that hype it up. It is good that there will not be a full house on Saturday - a recession, high prices and spoilt multimillionaires. The only thing for certain is at some point this will all come crashing down. Perhaps we should all take a ten-year break but then some of us like myself will be too old to return.
Before the Premier League it was usual for a lot of teams in the old first division to have a punt on their team winning the league with some degree of optimism. We used to mock the Scots for having a league where only two teams had a similar chance of success.
Our league was very open and we had a very good record against Man Utd. I can well recall great results both home and away against Man Utd teams containing Best, Law and Charlton etc and even before that when Duncan Edwards played. Man Utd went from 1967 until 1994 without a league title but stats can be made to suit any purpose and nowadays history begins with the Premier League.
I fully agree with the article and I feel that DM signed his contract because he has every excuse if we get relegated... no support from the board etc etc. I reckon he has a safe position as manager of a team lacking ambition and stagnating into a very poor side to watch.
Even when we finished 4th it was pure effort that got us there, we scored very few goals and generally used spoiling tactics to STOP other teams playing rather than beat them with football played entertainingly.
I am very apathetic at the moment and my letters are less driven by anger at the sheer incompetence of the management and present squad but acceptance of the rise and now demise of the Reginald Perrins of the division ? US!!!
Totally agree, the Premier League has lost what is vital to the game ? uncertainty. Come may, the Sky 4 will be the usual and that?s that. Might sound a funny thing to say (I'm 25 and only really remember winning the Cup in '95) but do fans of the Sky 4 not feel in the slightest bit bored with the year-in, year-out results/positions? I keep thinking of that old ?fast show? sketch when the over-competitive dad keeps takin his kids out to play sport, and batters them each time...
The very reason I stopped buying a season ticket. I got fed up with Sky dictating when and what time I go to the match. The spin and hype is killing the game. You can?t even have any talking points in the boozer, because every fucking incident is over analysed to the point of overkill.
The hype goes a lot deeper though. Where I now live on the Wirral, a lot of kids are wearing Man Utd shirts. Where I grew up in Bootle / Litherland, this was unheard of. The kids in todays throwaway society are consumed with wanting to be associated with success.
The game is fooked, the community spirit is gone out of football and I fear will never return. Until the fat cats piss off and form their European super league. The sooner the better in my opinion. So the rest of us can get back to what really matters. Football itself.
Nick - I?m going to write to Platini with your excellent idea as UEFA come out with such off the wall shit these days, they might adopt it!
As to the thread, I now live in the Midlands & consequently have to travel to Goodison up the M6 thereby meeting fans of lots of clubs at services etc. You would not beleive how many times in recent years people have come up & said how it is Everton?s recent progress that gives them hope for their own teams. They?ve seen us as a side that without spending mega bucks has got consistently close to the top four.
I guess our demise this season will reflect a loss of hope for all those clubs without money to burn.
As to the thread, I now live in the Midlands & consequently have to travel to Goodison up the M6 thereby meeting fans of lots of clubs at services etc. You would not beleive how many times in recent years people have come up & said how it is Everton?s recent progress that gives them hope for their own teams. They?ve seen us as a side that without spending mega bucks has got consistently close to the top four.
I guess our demise this season will reflect a loss of hope for all those clubs without money to burn.
I can absolutely identify with this thread and with Phil Martin’s previously.
I dont think I have ever felt so bored/disillusioned/sad about football.
I only go to 1-2 Everton games a season - partly down to a mixture of location, marriage, finances, time (ie life) but partly because it just doesnt seem as important/relevant any more. I still get goosebumps as I walk towards Goodison but my relationship with football is damaged - probably irreparably.
From being a football obsessive c10 years ago, I dont watch any football on telly apart from the 2 mins of EFC highlights on MOTD (and only then when we win).
I think the difference is the lack of hope now. In the 70s I was an uncritical kid and even the likes of Wood, Pejic, Gidman, Goodlass, Eastoe, Buckley etc were gods! In the 80s it was great anyway. In the 90s we were crap but I was distracted by trying to calculate where the points would come from to stay up and experiences like the Wimbledon game which will always stay with me - and also part of me still believed - maybe Tony Grant would finally turn into the dominant playmaker, maybe Stuart Barlow would finally find his scoring boots, maybe we could find another decent player to link with Beardsley or Kancho etc - I still hoped despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Unfortunately things improving over the past 5 years has in a way made things worse - its proved to me that its never going to happen (apart from the possibility of an occasional cup win every 10-20 years). We gave it a go - we improved, we didnt get there, we never will. Its probably time for a new man in charge as I think Moyes is a busted flush - he gave it a go, he had some success, he’s burnt out. A new man in charge may pick things up a bit but nothing will fundamentally change
Footballs pointless, I hate it. However, being an Evertonian is in my DNA - its been part of my identity for all my life, its been part of my family for generations - however much I try not to care I still do - and I hate that too.
I dont think I have ever felt so bored/disillusioned/sad about football.
I only go to 1-2 Everton games a season - partly down to a mixture of location, marriage, finances, time (ie life) but partly because it just doesnt seem as important/relevant any more. I still get goosebumps as I walk towards Goodison but my relationship with football is damaged - probably irreparably.
From being a football obsessive c10 years ago, I dont watch any football on telly apart from the 2 mins of EFC highlights on MOTD (and only then when we win).
I think the difference is the lack of hope now. In the 70s I was an uncritical kid and even the likes of Wood, Pejic, Gidman, Goodlass, Eastoe, Buckley etc were gods! In the 80s it was great anyway. In the 90s we were crap but I was distracted by trying to calculate where the points would come from to stay up and experiences like the Wimbledon game which will always stay with me - and also part of me still believed - maybe Tony Grant would finally turn into the dominant playmaker, maybe Stuart Barlow would finally find his scoring boots, maybe we could find another decent player to link with Beardsley or Kancho etc - I still hoped despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Unfortunately things improving over the past 5 years has in a way made things worse - its proved to me that its never going to happen (apart from the possibility of an occasional cup win every 10-20 years). We gave it a go - we improved, we didnt get there, we never will. Its probably time for a new man in charge as I think Moyes is a busted flush - he gave it a go, he had some success, he’s burnt out. A new man in charge may pick things up a bit but nothing will fundamentally change
Footballs pointless, I hate it. However, being an Evertonian is in my DNA - its been part of my identity for all my life, its been part of my family for generations - however much I try not to care I still do - and I hate that too.
Nick, whist it?s difficult to disagree with much you say here, it's a fallacy to believe that prior to l993 when Man Utd became the first Premier League champions, the top order was much more open or that Everton were still a power in the land.
In the last 16 seasons of the old First Division, the League title was even then something of a closed shop as the table below indicates with one club very much dominating things rather than the present four. Everton?s finishing position are in brackets:
In the last 16 seasons of the old First Division, the League title was even then something of a closed shop as the table below indicates with one club very much dominating things rather than the present four. Everton?s finishing position are in brackets:
92 Leeds (12)
91 Arsenal (9)
90 Liverpool (6)
89 Arsenal (8)
88 Liverpool (4)
87 EVERTON
86 Liverpool (2)
85 EVERTON
84 Liverpool (7)
83 Liverpool (7)
82 Liverpool (8)
81 Aston Villa (15)
80 Liverpool (19)
79 Liverpool (14)
78 Nottm Forest (3)
77 Liverpool (9)
I have to say that such was the dominance of our neighbours pre-Premier League that it has come as light relief to see three other clubs keeping them from top honours! Everton?s average finish over that time was 7th, three places above the average for the 16 seasons of the Prem.
But like you, I am totally disenchanted with the whole thing and have long decided that the 2009-10 season will bring down the curtain on my 50 years of active support/involvement with our club. Even that may prove a season too much!
Spot on, Nick. The monopoly will never be broken except with the inclusion of foreign ownerships, whose wealth humbles Sky's. Then we may see a more balanced league... maybe? The fact is glory supporters will pay thousands to follow United due to their wealth ? not passion but just to associate themselves with the champions and ridicule shit clubs. A crying shame.
About 6 years back, I was slagging a mate who (apart from the odd game) had packed in going.
He told me I was a mug and said..
"Imagine this - a brickie with a not-bad voice, goes to a cash-prize Karaoke in an ale-house. After everyone has sung, Pavarotti walks in, gives Nissan Dorma ?loads? and fucks off with the prize money."
Go on I said.
"Ok, the next week, the same thing happens.
Week after - same again.
Question: How many weeks do you think it would be before the brickie Dean Martin says ?fuck this, I?m not going anymore! It?s pointless, I can?t win, it?s the same every belleedin? week??".
This looks being my last season-ticket season.
I?m simply coming to the realisation that flying home from Dublin every two weeks and paying hundreds of pounds for a season ticket, is a very high price to pay to see a brickie trying to out-sing Pavarotti.
He told me I was a mug and said..
"Imagine this - a brickie with a not-bad voice, goes to a cash-prize Karaoke in an ale-house. After everyone has sung, Pavarotti walks in, gives Nissan Dorma ?loads? and fucks off with the prize money."
Go on I said.
"Ok, the next week, the same thing happens.
Week after - same again.
Question: How many weeks do you think it would be before the brickie Dean Martin says ?fuck this, I?m not going anymore! It?s pointless, I can?t win, it?s the same every belleedin? week??".
This looks being my last season-ticket season.
I?m simply coming to the realisation that flying home from Dublin every two weeks and paying hundreds of pounds for a season ticket, is a very high price to pay to see a brickie trying to out-sing Pavarotti.
EJ - Tell that Brickie to get down the alehouse this week - Pavarotti (God rest his soul) passed away last year!
Totally agree. I gave my season ticket up as well ? I would not pay to watch a match now. Matters aren?t helped by Sky giving Joey (one more chance) Barton loads of airtime to "explain himself" ? and they even have the gall to trail it as "an exclusive".
Anyway, looking on the bright side, Jessie Wallace got knocked out of Strictly so there is some hope !
My understanding of the Sky money is that its distributed fairly evenly, with about £500k per place difference. The real money spinner is the Champions League and the fact that 4 teams have access to that revenue year in, year out, provided they get to the group stages.
I think that is what has screwed over our league (and probably many other European domestic leagues too).
I think that is what has screwed over our league (and probably many other European domestic leagues too).
Without trying to sound smug, I think I came to the same conclusion about 5 years ago.
It was around the end of the 2003-2004 season when Leeds were in complete freefall and Newcastle were also beginning to run out of steam. Obviously Chelsea had just had a huge injection of cash as well.
I just wondered how any other club could crack the top 4 with the amount of cash these teams were getting year-in, year-out. Of course Everton managed exactly that the following year but it was a fasle dawn. Maybe, just maybe, had we drawn a softer team than Villarreal in the qualifying round we could have reaped the bounty of Champions League money and sustained that status but it wasn?t to be. We simply didn?t have the squad depth for a European campaign as well as trying to keep up at the business end of the Premiership. How little things have changed!
It was around the end of the 2003-2004 season when Leeds were in complete freefall and Newcastle were also beginning to run out of steam. Obviously Chelsea had just had a huge injection of cash as well.
I just wondered how any other club could crack the top 4 with the amount of cash these teams were getting year-in, year-out. Of course Everton managed exactly that the following year but it was a fasle dawn. Maybe, just maybe, had we drawn a softer team than Villarreal in the qualifying round we could have reaped the bounty of Champions League money and sustained that status but it wasn?t to be. We simply didn?t have the squad depth for a European campaign as well as trying to keep up at the business end of the Premiership. How little things have changed!
It’s an almost unique situation we find outselves in. The only other league in Europe who have this situation is in Scotland, and it’s like asking Aberdeen or Hearts to reach second. Never going to happen.
Good article Nick, I totally agree with other responses here, this could very well be my last season ticket also.
David Hall - While the previous 16 years still only gave us 6 different champions, I remember the league being a helluva lot closer than it has been in recent years. It would be interesting to look at the teams finishing in the top 6 positions and there respective points over the same 16 pre Sky years......
David Hall - While the previous 16 years still only gave us 6 different champions, I remember the league being a helluva lot closer than it has been in recent years. It would be interesting to look at the teams finishing in the top 6 positions and there respective points over the same 16 pre Sky years......
Spot on Nick, and a good piece. Even when Liverpool were top of the pile, there wasn’t the same inevitability about their winning, and it wasn’t always the same teams second, third and fourth every season...
I watched United the other night slaughter Celtic, and had to remind myself that they were doing this without Ferdinand, Evra, Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs and Tevez in their starting line up. Or Chelsea win at a canter at the weekend without Carvalho, Cole A, Cole J, Ballack, Deco, Essien, Drogba... Basically, the imbalances of resources versus the rest of us is so massive that it would be astonishing if these two didn’t win virtually every game they play (even with their second teams).
Since it is pointless continuing to play these teams in the Premiership (you might do an occasional FA Cup style giantkilling, but that’s hardly the point surely), there is only one logical conclusion. Pack them off to their own permanent European Champions League. Hopefully there would be promotion or relegation to national leagues, perhaps through an end of season cup competition somewhat like the Championship playoffs. But that’s the most we can hope for.
Personally I would now like to see them gone.
I watched United the other night slaughter Celtic, and had to remind myself that they were doing this without Ferdinand, Evra, Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs and Tevez in their starting line up. Or Chelsea win at a canter at the weekend without Carvalho, Cole A, Cole J, Ballack, Deco, Essien, Drogba... Basically, the imbalances of resources versus the rest of us is so massive that it would be astonishing if these two didn’t win virtually every game they play (even with their second teams).
Since it is pointless continuing to play these teams in the Premiership (you might do an occasional FA Cup style giantkilling, but that’s hardly the point surely), there is only one logical conclusion. Pack them off to their own permanent European Champions League. Hopefully there would be promotion or relegation to national leagues, perhaps through an end of season cup competition somewhat like the Championship playoffs. But that’s the most we can hope for.
Personally I would now like to see them gone.
Jesus lads.
Surely the Sky Four represent a level of ambition... not an unwanted skewing from the previous debatable quality of the league.
Better footballers is something to aspire to, the fact that we don?t have that is not the fault of those teams that do!
Surely the Sky Four represent a level of ambition... not an unwanted skewing from the previous debatable quality of the league.
Better footballers is something to aspire to, the fact that we don?t have that is not the fault of those teams that do!
I totally agree with the theme of the article and I have a radical solution.... very easy really but also very controversial.
It involves 2 cartels.
At the moment the Sky4 are acting as a cartel in every sense of the word from tapping up potential stars rather than let them go to non-Sky4 teams and spending like mad to keep themselves in a top four position, to influencing referees and manipulating the telly (especially Sky... surprise surprise) in order to defuse or highlight controversial issues, depending on their point of view. Also, no one can convince me that the FA do not have 2 sets of rules. One rule for the Sky4 and one for the rest of us.
My solution as mentioned above is simple. The rest of the Premiershit teams (i.e. the non Sky4 teams) set themselves up as a rival cartel. Field weakened teams against the red shite, Chelski, Manure and the Arse, and deliberately lose these games, and in effect make 5th place the "champions" slot for the rest of us. Personally I would even support a boycott of games against the Sky cartel teams, but that may be taking things a little too far.
I know it is very controversial and will never happen, too many obstacles. Imagine though if it did. The Status Quo would well and truly be shaken and stirred, there WOULD be something tangible AND REALISTIC to fight for (A Uefa Cup slot). What a competition it would be to fight for the converted 5th slot.
Best of all, it would not matter at all at the end of the season what order the four deck chairs are placed on the Premiershit version of the Titanic.
Sooner rather than later the powers that be will be forced to do something because more real football fans support the non Sky4 teams than support them and if the plan was carried through, then winning the Premiershit would be even less of an achievement for the Sky Cartel than it is now
This has been talked about in Scotland for years in order to get rid of the Celtic-Rangers monopoly, but up there most of the smaller clubs need the 2 Glasgow clubs in order to survive, that is not the case down here as most teams are well supported no matter who the opposition are.
2 things that I personally would hate about all of this though, firstly letting the red shite win anything goes against the grain, and letting them beat us in the name of protest is hard even for me to justify, and secondly, it would need a major shift in focus for all non-Sky4 teams.
At present we are being programmed anyway to accept second best and all talk for non-Sky4 teams is about "trying to break into the top 4" as a major achievement (note, not to win the league!!!). The shift in focus would be to view finishing 5th as that major achievement.
I personally think it a good idea in order to make the best out of a very bad situation. It is only a thought and it will never happen, but something has got to be done to get rid of this silly monopolistic situation.
One other thing that I find surprising is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of genuine protest over this monopolistic situation from owners or managers of the non-Sky4 teams.
It involves 2 cartels.
At the moment the Sky4 are acting as a cartel in every sense of the word from tapping up potential stars rather than let them go to non-Sky4 teams and spending like mad to keep themselves in a top four position, to influencing referees and manipulating the telly (especially Sky... surprise surprise) in order to defuse or highlight controversial issues, depending on their point of view. Also, no one can convince me that the FA do not have 2 sets of rules. One rule for the Sky4 and one for the rest of us.
My solution as mentioned above is simple. The rest of the Premiershit teams (i.e. the non Sky4 teams) set themselves up as a rival cartel. Field weakened teams against the red shite, Chelski, Manure and the Arse, and deliberately lose these games, and in effect make 5th place the "champions" slot for the rest of us. Personally I would even support a boycott of games against the Sky cartel teams, but that may be taking things a little too far.
I know it is very controversial and will never happen, too many obstacles. Imagine though if it did. The Status Quo would well and truly be shaken and stirred, there WOULD be something tangible AND REALISTIC to fight for (A Uefa Cup slot). What a competition it would be to fight for the converted 5th slot.
Best of all, it would not matter at all at the end of the season what order the four deck chairs are placed on the Premiershit version of the Titanic.
Sooner rather than later the powers that be will be forced to do something because more real football fans support the non Sky4 teams than support them and if the plan was carried through, then winning the Premiershit would be even less of an achievement for the Sky Cartel than it is now
This has been talked about in Scotland for years in order to get rid of the Celtic-Rangers monopoly, but up there most of the smaller clubs need the 2 Glasgow clubs in order to survive, that is not the case down here as most teams are well supported no matter who the opposition are.
2 things that I personally would hate about all of this though, firstly letting the red shite win anything goes against the grain, and letting them beat us in the name of protest is hard even for me to justify, and secondly, it would need a major shift in focus for all non-Sky4 teams.
At present we are being programmed anyway to accept second best and all talk for non-Sky4 teams is about "trying to break into the top 4" as a major achievement (note, not to win the league!!!). The shift in focus would be to view finishing 5th as that major achievement.
I personally think it a good idea in order to make the best out of a very bad situation. It is only a thought and it will never happen, but something has got to be done to get rid of this silly monopolistic situation.
One other thing that I find surprising is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of genuine protest over this monopolistic situation from owners or managers of the non-Sky4 teams.
I’m glad that I’m not the only one who has been feeling this way for some time now. Football has become boring and pointless if you are a follower of a team outside of the top 4. We (and every other team outside the Sky4) have entered the PL since it began without ANY hope of winning the title.
It’s like betting on a 1000-1 horse on the National with 3 legs. You always try to be optimistic at the start but realistically it’s not worth even wasting £1 on.
It’s like putting £1 on a lucky dip on the Lotto. It’s a 14m-1 chance of winning. Keep your £1 in your pocket and get something useful like a cup of tea on your lunch break.
I was trying to explain to an Arsenal mate, then a Man Utd fan how boring the PL is now, but they don’t get it. They are all wrapped up in their mini-league of the top 4 and how they are going to do in the CL. They know they will finish in the top 4 every year, year after year, but the media are so hyped up towards these clubs that they don’t even consider the ’smaller clubs’.
When I started watching football (20 odd years ago), there were several teams capable of winning, yes actually winning the title! Not Arsenal or Liverpool attempting to finish in the top 2. Not Everton, Spurs, Newcastle, etc attempting to finish in the top 4, but several teams capable of actually winning the title.
At half-time last saturday, the scores read Arsenal 0 Everton 1, Liverpool 1 Wigan 2. Was I excited? Was I jumping up and down and cheering? Was I rubbing my Arsenal mate’s face in it? NO. Why not? Because I knew full well that these scores would turn round by 90 mins. Did they? Of course they did.
The lastest nail in the coffin for the ’smaller’ clubs this season is the fact that you can now name 7 subs on the bench. Now the top4 can rest their best players like Arsenal did last saturday and if by some miracle they are losing at half-time, just bring their big-game players on. More world class players are happy to sit on the bench and pick up bigger pay packets at the bigger clubs than actually play football at a ’smaller’ club, after all it’s not exactly their job now is it? World class players like Tevez now sit regularly on the bench whilst Everton, Spurs, Newcastle, etc can’t even get one world class player on the pitch.
I’ve had enough, it’s boring, it’s pointless. I will always support Everton but when my local team Brighton get their new stadium, I can get a seat there and watch competitive football. A match at Goodison costs me about £200-£300 with travelling costs, hotel stay-over, kids tickets, memorablia, programmes, hot dogs, etc, etc. I went to a friendly at Worthing (2 leagues below the conference) against Arsenal (youth!). Tickets, meal, pints, programme, etc costs me £15 total, now that’s more like it, and the football was better!
It’s like betting on a 1000-1 horse on the National with 3 legs. You always try to be optimistic at the start but realistically it’s not worth even wasting £1 on.
It’s like putting £1 on a lucky dip on the Lotto. It’s a 14m-1 chance of winning. Keep your £1 in your pocket and get something useful like a cup of tea on your lunch break.
I was trying to explain to an Arsenal mate, then a Man Utd fan how boring the PL is now, but they don’t get it. They are all wrapped up in their mini-league of the top 4 and how they are going to do in the CL. They know they will finish in the top 4 every year, year after year, but the media are so hyped up towards these clubs that they don’t even consider the ’smaller clubs’.
When I started watching football (20 odd years ago), there were several teams capable of winning, yes actually winning the title! Not Arsenal or Liverpool attempting to finish in the top 2. Not Everton, Spurs, Newcastle, etc attempting to finish in the top 4, but several teams capable of actually winning the title.
At half-time last saturday, the scores read Arsenal 0 Everton 1, Liverpool 1 Wigan 2. Was I excited? Was I jumping up and down and cheering? Was I rubbing my Arsenal mate’s face in it? NO. Why not? Because I knew full well that these scores would turn round by 90 mins. Did they? Of course they did.
The lastest nail in the coffin for the ’smaller’ clubs this season is the fact that you can now name 7 subs on the bench. Now the top4 can rest their best players like Arsenal did last saturday and if by some miracle they are losing at half-time, just bring their big-game players on. More world class players are happy to sit on the bench and pick up bigger pay packets at the bigger clubs than actually play football at a ’smaller’ club, after all it’s not exactly their job now is it? World class players like Tevez now sit regularly on the bench whilst Everton, Spurs, Newcastle, etc can’t even get one world class player on the pitch.
I’ve had enough, it’s boring, it’s pointless. I will always support Everton but when my local team Brighton get their new stadium, I can get a seat there and watch competitive football. A match at Goodison costs me about £200-£300 with travelling costs, hotel stay-over, kids tickets, memorablia, programmes, hot dogs, etc, etc. I went to a friendly at Worthing (2 leagues below the conference) against Arsenal (youth!). Tickets, meal, pints, programme, etc costs me £15 total, now that’s more like it, and the football was better!
Well said, mate, Sky are slowly ruining the English game. Clubs like Everton are just there to make the numbers up an if this carries on for another ten years, domestic football will be finished an there will be a European league with them four in it.
This is only going to continue. However, I feel clubs who are taken over by billionaires (any club) will swap places.
In the meantime, tell Tony Marsh about this columm.
In the meantime, tell Tony Marsh about this columm.
Nick Entwistle - sadly this isn?t a unique situation in Europe.
Spain are slightly better off since 1993, year of the Premiership start only 5 teams have won the title, with Barca and Madrid dominating. Deportivo were up there, now their spot has gone to Villarreal.
In France, Lyon have won the league for the last 7 straight years.
In Italy, Milan, Inter, Roma and Juve have more or less got things zipped up, though Fiorentina are having a go.
Germany have pretty much the most open of the ?top leagues? with 5 different champions in 16 years and a fair few different teams making the top 4 spots.
The Premiershp is just getting more money thrown at it. Now there?s a rich-5, will that become 6 or 7? Then there?ll be problems with only 4 Champions League spots.
Spain are slightly better off since 1993, year of the Premiership start only 5 teams have won the title, with Barca and Madrid dominating. Deportivo were up there, now their spot has gone to Villarreal.
In France, Lyon have won the league for the last 7 straight years.
In Italy, Milan, Inter, Roma and Juve have more or less got things zipped up, though Fiorentina are having a go.
Germany have pretty much the most open of the ?top leagues? with 5 different champions in 16 years and a fair few different teams making the top 4 spots.
The Premiershp is just getting more money thrown at it. Now there?s a rich-5, will that become 6 or 7? Then there?ll be problems with only 4 Champions League spots.
John S; thanks for setting me some more homework ? it was a quiet day so happy to oblige.
Since the Premier League came into being, the WINNERS have been;-
Manchester Unt. 10 times
Arsenal 3
Chelsea 2
Blackburn 1
POSITIONS 2-4 occupied by
Liverpool 11 times
Arsenal 10
Man Unt 6
Chelsea 6
Newcastle 5
Leeds 3
Blackburn , Aston V 2 each
Everton, Nottm F, Norwich 1 each.
Over the 16 seasons immediately before the introduction of the Prem,the Div 1 title winners were;-
Liverpool 9 times
Everton and Arsenal 2 each
Aston Villa, Nottm F, Leeds 1 each
POSITIONS 2-4 occupied by
Man Unt. 8 times
Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs 5 each
Everton, Nottm F, Ipswich 4 each
Aston V, WBA, Man C, 2 each
Crystal P, Leeds, Norwich, West Ham Southampton, Watford 1 each.
So, in summary, in similar time spans only 4 clubs have won the Prem whilst 6 clubs won the old Div 1.
The 2nd-4th spots have been claimed by only 11 different clubs in Prem history whilst no less than 17 managed it under the old regime.
Thus, I think we can safely say that for most of us life is far less interesting these days!
Since the Premier League came into being, the WINNERS have been;-
Manchester Unt. 10 times
Arsenal 3
Chelsea 2
Blackburn 1
POSITIONS 2-4 occupied by
Liverpool 11 times
Arsenal 10
Man Unt 6
Chelsea 6
Newcastle 5
Leeds 3
Blackburn , Aston V 2 each
Everton, Nottm F, Norwich 1 each.
Over the 16 seasons immediately before the introduction of the Prem,the Div 1 title winners were;-
Liverpool 9 times
Everton and Arsenal 2 each
Aston Villa, Nottm F, Leeds 1 each
POSITIONS 2-4 occupied by
Man Unt. 8 times
Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs 5 each
Everton, Nottm F, Ipswich 4 each
Aston V, WBA, Man C, 2 each
Crystal P, Leeds, Norwich, West Ham Southampton, Watford 1 each.
So, in summary, in similar time spans only 4 clubs have won the Prem whilst 6 clubs won the old Div 1.
The 2nd-4th spots have been claimed by only 11 different clubs in Prem history whilst no less than 17 managed it under the old regime.
Thus, I think we can safely say that for most of us life is far less interesting these days!
Thanks David! To add to all this, both the Carling and FA Cups have been FAR more dominated by the Top 4 in the Prem years than the years before. So there’s not even much fun there... (Last year was I am sure the exception, with both cups won outside the Top 4, and only one Top 4 finalist.)
Don?t think I?ve ever appreciated how modest our achievements have been over the past 30 years or so. Compared with our neighbours, we are about on par with Ipswich and Nottm Forest ? and look where they are now! Nevertheless, the introduction of the Premier stopped the RS in their tracks ? comparatively speaking!
Why are Sky to blame? Don’t we get a fair wad of cash of Sky?
Can you imagine the shit we would be in, if there was no sky money?
Can you imagine the shit we would be in, if there was no sky money?
Ciaran "surely the Sky 4 represent a level of ambition" - no, they represent a level of wealth
David London "tell Tony Marsh about this column" - please dont - its a pleasure to read a range of intelligent articles without the extremist spectrums of Marsh and Dodd
Brian Waring "can you imagine ... if there was no sky money" - if the sky money went now we’d be fucked
However the more relevant questions is "can you imagine if there never was any sky money?" - Saturday kick offs, no wall to wall hype, max of 1 live game a week, players not earning obscene salaries, clubs with lower cost bases not needing to screw the fans for every penny of merchandise.... No, your right, I just cant imagine it any more - sigh
David London "tell Tony Marsh about this column" - please dont - its a pleasure to read a range of intelligent articles without the extremist spectrums of Marsh and Dodd
Brian Waring "can you imagine ... if there was no sky money" - if the sky money went now we’d be fucked
However the more relevant questions is "can you imagine if there never was any sky money?" - Saturday kick offs, no wall to wall hype, max of 1 live game a week, players not earning obscene salaries, clubs with lower cost bases not needing to screw the fans for every penny of merchandise.... No, your right, I just cant imagine it any more - sigh
Due to curiosity and boredom I provide the final instalment (Honest) of comparative results of the Sky 4.
In the last 10 seasons of the old First Division replacing Chelsea from the Sky 4 with Everton and using Man U Liverpool and Arsenal as the ITV 4, it would seem that the top flight was indeed far more competitive.
The ITV 4 played 1375 Won 704 (51%) 15% less than currently Lost 305(22%) an increase of 9% and Drew 366(27%) an increase of 6%
No fewer than 14 different sides occupied the top 4 places in this period whilst 8 sides from outside the ITV 4 reached the FA Cup final winning the trophy on 3 occasions.
Better put the kettle on she?ll have my guts for garters!
In the last 10 seasons of the old First Division replacing Chelsea from the Sky 4 with Everton and using Man U Liverpool and Arsenal as the ITV 4, it would seem that the top flight was indeed far more competitive.
The ITV 4 played 1375 Won 704 (51%) 15% less than currently Lost 305(22%) an increase of 9% and Drew 366(27%) an increase of 6%
No fewer than 14 different sides occupied the top 4 places in this period whilst 8 sides from outside the ITV 4 reached the FA Cup final winning the trophy on 3 occasions.
Better put the kettle on she?ll have my guts for garters!
I’m really surprised to read the above article and see the amount of people agreeing with it. I’ve been expressing the same opinions about the Sky revolution for many years now but found that very few people agreed with me. Could it be that the penny has finally dropped or is it that we are just going through a bad patch? Do you remember teams coming up from the old second division and winning the first division championship? I think people got caught up in all the razamatataz when the Premier League was set up. Just because all the clubs got more money everybody thought that their club would be better off. Well it had the opposite affect on Everton. It put us on a level playing field with the Bolton’s of this world... it also meant that we are now paying twice as much to get into Goodison Park in real terms. Nothing in life ever stays the same and its worth remembering this. If you have something that is worth keeping it should be cherished. We all gave up what we had far to easily to rampant capitalism and now its gone forever... Saying this, I still think it will be fun seeing how a mega rich Manchester City fit into the equation! As my old maths teacher said, " Five into four won’t go".
Well ’our’ Nick, when did ’gotten’ become acceptable English? At least you’re not using unnnecessary profanities in your rants any more ;-)
It’s true that the game we love(d) has become dull, boring and predictable. That’s why I gave up my season ticket about 3 years ago.
I’ve also not been to a game this year, and I don’t know if I will go all season. That would be a first for me since ’77 when I started going with my grandad.
Blame the ’Champions’ League though, not Sky. It’s the pot of gold that the CL brings that re-inforces the gulf twixt them and us.
Biased refereeing also slants things, as does players going out expecting to lose, which I think happens a lot nowadays. Imagine Reid, Sharp, Southall and co going out twith that attitude. Never.
I feel exactly the same as Damian Kelly:
"...being an Evertonian is in my DNA - its been part of my identity for all my life, its been part of my family for generations - however much I try not to care I still do - and I hate that too"
Sorry Nick, you’re in the same boat as well.
It’s true that the game we love(d) has become dull, boring and predictable. That’s why I gave up my season ticket about 3 years ago.
I’ve also not been to a game this year, and I don’t know if I will go all season. That would be a first for me since ’77 when I started going with my grandad.
Blame the ’Champions’ League though, not Sky. It’s the pot of gold that the CL brings that re-inforces the gulf twixt them and us.
Biased refereeing also slants things, as does players going out expecting to lose, which I think happens a lot nowadays. Imagine Reid, Sharp, Southall and co going out twith that attitude. Never.
I feel exactly the same as Damian Kelly:
"...being an Evertonian is in my DNA - its been part of my identity for all my life, its been part of my family for generations - however much I try not to care I still do - and I hate that too"
Sorry Nick, you’re in the same boat as well.
Hi Richard, what I mean about the unique situation here and in Scotland is not reference to who wins the title but who qualifies for the CL places. It’s a closed shop regardless of what the other teams try. You note Italy of course with four team for their four places, I don’t keep up with the Scuderia but I don’t think it would be too much of a leap for that cartel to be broke.
Actually, I wrote a dam good artical on this subject a few seasons back called What is Success. ’Guarenteed induction to the ToffeeWeb hall of fame... if there was one’ said one of the guys at ToffeeWeb. And nothing has changed since with the situation.
Actually, I wrote a dam good artical on this subject a few seasons back called What is Success. ’Guarenteed induction to the ToffeeWeb hall of fame... if there was one’ said one of the guys at ToffeeWeb. And nothing has changed since with the situation.
If you go back a couple of years ago to the "goal" that propelled us into the Group Stages of the Champions league...you know the one...Collina whistled for the phantom foul and then somehow ended up "retiring" the following week. Soon after, the cheating scandal in Italy brought down more than Collina, and it was like it was the mid to late ?80?s all over again with outside forces conspiring to do in Everton on the European stage.
The money in football right now is at its highest and its lowest it has ever been. And there are alarm bells ringing all over the countryside. Hear the alarm ringing at the ticket windows at Goodison with tickets available for United?s visit. Hear the fire brigade coming up the street to put at the fire across Stanley Park for the RS with NO MONEY with which to build a new stadium even though the owners promised the supporters they would do that.
Read your news stories closely to see that Setanta is ready for the dole after paying a ridiculous amount of money for what constitutes a second tier of broadcasting. Check the subscriber figures for Sky in today?s Guardian story...hear the alarm bells...Nearly 20% of their subscribers are saying they are thinking of reducing their Sky commitment. Sky will miss it?s sub figures that they have been touting for years, and they will probably need to push more money towards the Premier League next year to retain the rights to matches that people don?t want to watch anymore. It doesn?t make any sense does it? Sky is being hijacked by the very game that they stole years ago. What if Sky walked away next year from the bidding? Who would pay for all of this spending? Everton, I think, has pledged all of their TV money to pay Shandy Andy?s contract off already.
Sky has enabled supporters in all area?s of the country to enjoy live football ON THE TELLY. But at the same time, live...really live....football has suffered. If the Big 4 take in all that CL money which then sets the salary bar at such a high level that it precludes clubs like Spurs, us, Villa etc from matching salaries and the experience of playing continental football, then what chance do we have? Can you imagine if you were a Spurs supporter and you have suffred int he shadow of the Arsenal for over forty five years, and you are very, very close to making that breakthrough, and suddenly a trapdoor opens and Jermaine Defoe, Robbie Keane, and Berbatov all fall through it. Your best players swept away in a moment of madness, and you fall through another trap door to the bottom of the table. How did that happen? It?s similiar to what happened when the trap door opened and there went Rooney, except somehow we fought and fought and finshed 4th, only to be undone by the dodgiest of decisions by a corrupt official, who might have been paid to keep a smaller club out of the competition.
Last weekend, I did not watch the Arsenal game. I was out and about and had other things to do. I taped it to watch laster that day, but never got around to watching it. On Monday night, I watched patches of the game to see the build up to the goals, but I couldn?t be bothered to watch the whole match. That was the first time I couldn?t be bothered to watch Everton in a really long time. I?m with Nick. It?s depressing not because we are currently 16th, but that the best we can ever hope to finish again is 4th....I fancy our odds of ever winning the title again to be one in a trillion million, or as my daughter says ...one in a gazillion.
The money in football right now is at its highest and its lowest it has ever been. And there are alarm bells ringing all over the countryside. Hear the alarm ringing at the ticket windows at Goodison with tickets available for United?s visit. Hear the fire brigade coming up the street to put at the fire across Stanley Park for the RS with NO MONEY with which to build a new stadium even though the owners promised the supporters they would do that.
Read your news stories closely to see that Setanta is ready for the dole after paying a ridiculous amount of money for what constitutes a second tier of broadcasting. Check the subscriber figures for Sky in today?s Guardian story...hear the alarm bells...Nearly 20% of their subscribers are saying they are thinking of reducing their Sky commitment. Sky will miss it?s sub figures that they have been touting for years, and they will probably need to push more money towards the Premier League next year to retain the rights to matches that people don?t want to watch anymore. It doesn?t make any sense does it? Sky is being hijacked by the very game that they stole years ago. What if Sky walked away next year from the bidding? Who would pay for all of this spending? Everton, I think, has pledged all of their TV money to pay Shandy Andy?s contract off already.
Sky has enabled supporters in all area?s of the country to enjoy live football ON THE TELLY. But at the same time, live...really live....football has suffered. If the Big 4 take in all that CL money which then sets the salary bar at such a high level that it precludes clubs like Spurs, us, Villa etc from matching salaries and the experience of playing continental football, then what chance do we have? Can you imagine if you were a Spurs supporter and you have suffred int he shadow of the Arsenal for over forty five years, and you are very, very close to making that breakthrough, and suddenly a trapdoor opens and Jermaine Defoe, Robbie Keane, and Berbatov all fall through it. Your best players swept away in a moment of madness, and you fall through another trap door to the bottom of the table. How did that happen? It?s similiar to what happened when the trap door opened and there went Rooney, except somehow we fought and fought and finshed 4th, only to be undone by the dodgiest of decisions by a corrupt official, who might have been paid to keep a smaller club out of the competition.
Last weekend, I did not watch the Arsenal game. I was out and about and had other things to do. I taped it to watch laster that day, but never got around to watching it. On Monday night, I watched patches of the game to see the build up to the goals, but I couldn?t be bothered to watch the whole match. That was the first time I couldn?t be bothered to watch Everton in a really long time. I?m with Nick. It?s depressing not because we are currently 16th, but that the best we can ever hope to finish again is 4th....I fancy our odds of ever winning the title again to be one in a trillion million, or as my daughter says ...one in a gazillion.
Contrast English football with German football and see what a competitive league really is.
German table: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/spieltag/tabelle/
English table: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/intligen/england/tabelle/liga/500/
That means if Bayern, the one huge club, have an off season, any one of half a dozen clubs can be champions, like VfB the season before last.
That said, nobody else can sustain a long term challenge to Bayern because of Bayern’s policy of always poaching key players from their title rivals, a policy they can pursue due to their enormous wealth.
German table: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/spieltag/tabelle/
English table: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/intligen/england/tabelle/liga/500/
That means if Bayern, the one huge club, have an off season, any one of half a dozen clubs can be champions, like VfB the season before last.
That said, nobody else can sustain a long term challenge to Bayern because of Bayern’s policy of always poaching key players from their title rivals, a policy they can pursue due to their enormous wealth.
What really gets to me is that these Sky 4 teams are heavily in debt so to succeed in the Premiershit the more broke you are the more successful you become. Jeez louise but I think the one governing fact of a successful business is that you make a profit.
Ciaran McGlone is spot on.We need to have aspiration.There were plenty of tough times for Evertonians long before the premier league started.
The finances of the game are going to change and the sky bubble will burst;there won’t always be a sky four.
Alex Ferguson demonstrated at Aberdeen that tactical nous sometimes triumphs over financial clout.
So what should we do? Stop being Evertonians because the bigger boys don’t plat fair?
The finances of the game are going to change and the sky bubble will burst;there won’t always be a sky four.
Alex Ferguson demonstrated at Aberdeen that tactical nous sometimes triumphs over financial clout.
So what should we do? Stop being Evertonians because the bigger boys don’t plat fair?
Who remembers Harry Catterick? Back in the sixties he warned against allowing television into the grounds. He saw something in the tv invasion that he didn?t like. Having said that, though, we did have Sir Moores money [an? he had a few bob!] which made us ?fat-cats? back then. I haven?t seen the blues play... ?live? since the winning game an? we won the First Divi. championship, back in ?70. Australia is a bit further on from Toxteth, y?see.
My point about the old first division being a better and more equal league to play in...was there were no really super rich clubs..Hard to admit that Liverpool dominated without the money or the foreign players we have to day..BUT in those days the trophy?s were much more equally devided and teams like Man Utd and Chelsea were mostly just other competitors. Chelsea in fact were a really poor side.
Harry?s objection to TV (Match of the Day) was never on commercial grounds. He firmly believed ? particularly in that great Championship season ? that we were getting far too much exposure and that this would give his rival managers too much opportunity to suss out his tactics. His rows with the MOTD producer of that time, John Magonigal, were frightening to behold as Harry raged about having his job undermined. What he would say about Andy Gray?s ?Last Word?, I hate to think!
Last week I asked on here what was the point of the weekend match against Arsenal. You can imagine my view of the match tomorrow.
Thing is, I don?t get upset anymore.
Thing is, I don?t get upset anymore.
DAMIEN KELLY your first post on this thread means I never have to post on here again... shit I just did... no mind....
Started with
I don?t think I have ever felt so bored/disillusioned/sad about football.
finished with ? however much I try not to care I still do - and I hate that too ?
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.... my shirt lies in the back garden, where if went after the European debacle.... cant be bothered picking it up..... Afraid that the pain will start again if I do.....
Will listen to the Manure game until the 3rd goal.... then I’ll sigh and go play with the kids....
Even the Manc’s and Redshite’s at work don’t bother slagging me anymore...
Started with
I don?t think I have ever felt so bored/disillusioned/sad about football.
finished with ? however much I try not to care I still do - and I hate that too ?
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.... my shirt lies in the back garden, where if went after the European debacle.... cant be bothered picking it up..... Afraid that the pain will start again if I do.....
Will listen to the Manure game until the 3rd goal.... then I’ll sigh and go play with the kids....
Even the Manc’s and Redshite’s at work don’t bother slagging me anymore...
Nick I agree with almost eveything you say. Fortunately I manage an U9 team - it?s a lot less depressing every Saturday morning! I was really interested in your comment, "And is it only me who thinks the BBC have gotten even more biased this season?"
I feel that the BBC is only interested in the "Big 4" and perhaps this season in the Barcodes and Spurs-and thank God I say for their plight! I am not sure that the obsession with the so-called "Big 4" has changed for sometime now ? that is all we hear on 5 live. It really irritates me that the so-called Public Broadcast Service doesn?t spread it?s coverage better most of us have little difficulty in predicting what will be the commentary games every weekend ? and yes, Nick, football has been more predictable... it becomes more pointless season by season.
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1 Posted 23/10/2008 at 03:26:09
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My only hope is that they will kill the golden goose and enough people will lose interest for the whole thing to implode.
I don’t even care what the score is against Man U - at the age of 46 I may as well be in the team for all the good it will do.