COLUMNIST KEN BUCKLEY
From my seat: West Ham (A)
Comments (63) : At the start of what was to be a memorable match for many reasons, I thought it was a fitting touch to have the British Legion standard bearers join the players in the centre-circle for the period of silence.
On seeing the line up and bench once again reinforced my worry that squad-wise we are to short on numbers and quite unbalanced. We made a good positive start from the off and could have caught the Hammers cold but that pressure came to an end when Saha volleyed high and wide. From that moment on the half belonged to the opposition, so much so their keeper was redundant.
The pass-and-move plus the pace of Bellamy and Sears had us at 'sixes and sevens' and, but for some heroic work in defence especially Jags and Howard, we could have been three down at the break. Howard palmed a Parker effort for a corner which produced two more before we finally scrambled the ball away. Then Howard seemed to take an age in clearing a back-pass which resulted in Sears charging it down but to no great harm.
The home team lost Upson who was stretchered off but it made little difference as they still had more of the game than us. Bellamy volleyed over when well placed, the same player then twisted and turned Yobo and pulled the ball back to the unmarked Sears to smash one against the bar, it must have been a great save from Howard as a corner was given and from that corner a free header was allowed but straight at Howard.
We did go forward at times but all the decent build-up seemed to dry up once we reached the final third. But near the break we had just a little excitement when Cahill was worked a shooting chance but 'high wide and handsome' sums it up.
Half-time and many a grumble from those assembled. Surely a change would be made as we just could not seem to get to grips with things in midfield but as the teams emerged it was same again.
We started the second period brightly and within five minutes Rodwell had curled well over. We then had a good ten or so minute spell where Rodwell got on the end of an Arteta corner but put his effort flew just wide when really well placed. Cahill then had a shot from inside the box blocked and the same player appealed strongly for a pen as he was flattened in the box.
This flurry of Blues activity led to West Ham taking the lead, with Cahill still shouting pen, as a long ball over the top saw Parker produce a backheel straight out of the Zola mould that found the sub Collison who deaspatched a beauty past Howard into the top corner. The way we had been playing, I don't think I was alone in thinking 'Well that's it'.
The manager responded by introducing Vaughan for the promising but inexperienced Rodwell; this allowed Vaughan to go up top, Cahill more orthodox midfield and I have to admit I am not sure of Big Vic's instructions...
From my seat I thought this was the start of the mad seven minutes that were come. Although Vaughan didn't threaten much he did get about the place and unsettled what had been an assured back four into one of some hesitancy but going forward they were still a threat. Lescott was booked for pulling Bellamy when beaten for pace, which led to Bellamy yet again testing Howard and a feeling that the game was slipping away from us was well to the fore.
With Vaughan still ever ready to chase and harry, the faithful hit full voice; the players seemed to sense one last go and we moved forward and a sweet Lescott header across goal saw Vaughan's gamble just fail to connect. Vaughan was then pulled down on the edge but the ref would have non of it.
Then it came, that 82nd minute, deja vu moment: for the third time in as many matches, late on we produce some proper football, again down the right, where Neville slid a ground pass to Ossie who looked up, Saha moved quickly to offer himself and Ossie found him in slide-rule mode, the Hammers stood off while he turned and put in a cross of quality at pace that found Lescott who had stayed up free in the box and his header of high velocity bulged the net.
Roof off time! We were out of jail with that card but hang on there was more to come.
With the Hammers shellshocked and again down the right, Neville this time found Big Vic who pulled a low cross across the box to find Saha in predatory mode and he showed his striking class, he showed he had remembered how to celebrate with the ecstatic hordes and it was bedlam, excactly the same Fellaini celebration but no yellow card, just a ref with common sense.
Big Vic's reward was to be immediately replaced by Baines to shore up a very unlikely three points... but hang on ? we are not done yet! Cahill, with an extra spring in his step, pounced on a poor clearance, fed Saha and, from 25 yards, a true strike hit the bottom corner... seventh heaven didn't come into it!
The ground had emptied, the final whistle, the players saluted everyone and his dog and the journey home was only going to seem half as long as it did just 11 mins earlier.
Man of the match ? over the whole piece ? Jags by a mile but the mad 11mins belongs to Louis the 1st of Goodison and the magical, if unexplainable, late-late quality football down our right.
Overall, 80 mins that showed how hampered we are with our present squad when injury and suspension strike. I have the feeling we are about good enough for a reasonable final position come May but seem someway off taking that next step. On the positive side, should Rodwell continue with the progress he is now showing, we could have a very good player on our hands... plus Vaughan keeps giving the impression he is almost there. I hope he gets the games and stays injury-free to give him every chance.
Still, three wins on the trot... yet nothing much has changed, we still need that elusive investment in the squad to move on. Boro next and the history of that game is home win in a drab game. See you there ? don't go before the end!!!
UP THE BLUES
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COYB!!
Moyes needs to start earning his money for me. Why is Baines not playing?? The guy must be thinking of packing it all in... The few times he?s played this year he has looked good while Lescott has been awful. Give him a chance.
Likewise for Vaughan. This crap about his fitness is wearing a bit thin. How can he get match fit if you won?t let him play. It was no surprise that the match swung in our favour when he was on the pitch.
Next, how did Arteta and Cahill stay on the pitch for 90 mins. Thet were both dreadful. I know they are both good players but they are not untouchable.
Finally, why do we have to go a goal down before Moyes makes a change? An 11-year-old could have told you that we needed to change things after 20 mins of that game yesterday.
3 extremely lucky victories and everyone seems to think that all is well again. I beg to differ.
Larry - where was the moment for a second West Ham goal, never mind a third? ’The Hammers swirching off1? - who do you support really?
OK, you don’t like us winning. I hope you continue to be upset.
I am an Everton supporter, have been for 30 years but if you don?t think that we were extremely lucky to get anything from that game then you are deluding yourself..
I hate to say it but we are one of the worst teams to watch in the Premier League and but for 3 hugely fortunate wins we would be in the bottom 3.
I?m thrilled that we are winning but to coin an old phrase, it is mearly papering over the huge cracks that exist at the moment. I hope that I?m proven wrong but I?m just saying it as I see it.
There are positives to be taken from the last three games as well as the points, but... I can?t understand Evertonians who feel that to criticise David Moyes in any way is wrong and who can?t see that our football at the moment is dreadful.
Finally, our coach at half time didn?t see a way back. Seems to me he?s lost his passion.
Also in our last 4 games we have scored 6 goals, 5 of these goals have came from a cross from the right and all 5 crosses from a different player. Neville, Pienaar, Osman, Saha and Anichebe but Arteta hasn't been involved, in fact he hasn't been involved in any of the games never mind goals and he continues to deliver poor crosses and set-pieces. What has happened to ?the best little Spaniard we know??
Remember Howard Kendall early days and look what happened.
10 points in 4 games and climbing the tables, I?m happy.
It seems the West Ham goal was the catalyst. Maybe if they?d scored earlier, Moyes would have changed it earlier and the game would have taken another course? Ifs, buts and maybes... so we?ll never know. Maybe Moyes should have started with the 4-4-2, but it often seems we can only be effective in a 4-4-2 when it is ?do or die?? Like, versus Man U when we started 4-4-2 but only really started to play after going behind. And here switching from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 when needs must! The urgency, energy and desire seems missing unless we are behind?
Question, how come Lescott was up front for his goal. Had there just been a free kick or a corner?
I'm another who believes that Baines must play, but I would put him in FRONT of the four defenders as he is a great crosser of the ball from the left hand side plus he is better on the ball than most. I cannot believe he didn?t play against West Ham when Fellaini, Pienaar and Yakubu were out; he must be absolutely frustrated beyond belief and I would be too if I were him.
Let?s face it, we were crap and we won't keep getting away with it, particularly against the better sides.
I agree with John Hill. We started this campaign in awful form, let's get the wins and confidence and then judge us when we playing well again. I have no doubt our little Spaniard will play well when the team has more confidence. But I have to agree, his set pieces are piss poor and I?ve seen more consistency in Sunday league! Surely we have another who can take set pieces?
We didn?t just play badly, we were awful and Hodgson, Zola and Megson could not believe that they had lost their respective games.
I agree that we have to start winning before worrying about the football we play. But we are not just winning "ugly" we are winning "lucky" as well as ugly. Luck tends to even itself out over the course of a season, or maybe we are just making up for our bad luck last season against the shite and Blackburn etc etc. Either way, our luck will turn at some stage and I hope that our football and our manager's tactical awareness will have improved sufficiently to cope...
Now despite what Sky commentators or Match Of The Day may have made out, West Ham didn?t dominate proceedings. On Match Of The Day it showed Scott Parker volleying over but it never showed Saha?s volley in the 1st minute. It didnt show the one where if Vaughan had got a touch it would have been in the back of the net. And did they give credit when we came back? Of course not. Instead it was because West Ham collapsed. We got lucky. Yeah RIght?
We had them on the rails and the goal deservedly came, and when it did you got the feeling we?d go on and win it. And we did. 3 goals in 5 minutes. What a magnificent feeling that was. Of course there were negatives. Cahill was totally ineffective, Osman was painfully average, as was Yobo, and most frustratingly of all it took the goal to wake us up. Why can?t we play like that from the start?
However, I also saw plenty of positives. Howard was superb and I?m starting to feel confident with him again. Jajielka again couldn?t argue with... Neville had another good performance. Lescott played well 2nd half and thank christ for his goal ? hopefully that?ll wake him up. Rodwell played ok, got caught a few times in possession but he?s learning. Arteta played well 2nd half and his delivery was actually quite threatening for once. Anichebe I thought had a good game, and while Saha was average up till final 10 minutes, you couldn?t argue with his contribution for the final 3 goals, and at the end of the day that?s what we bought him for. 2 goals and an assist all with his weaker right foot.
But my man of the match was James Vaughan. His contribution when he came on was outstanding and he turned the game on its head. And it was no coincidence that when we played football we dictated. And 3 goals in 5 minutes was an incredible thing to happen. It showed we had a killer instinct, and even when we scored the 2nd we knew we needed 3rd to kill off game, and indeed we got that a couple of minutes later when we hit them we they least expected it.
I?m a pessimist and I?ve slagged off Moyes and Everton many times on this website but for once I?m going to leave it because I?m satisfied. Maybe we can finish top 6 after all. And one final point. Now since the Premier League has has been considered the best league in the world, and Everton are the form team, thus according to logic, at this present moment ? EVERTON ARE THE WORLD?S TOP TEAM.
COYB FTRS
Great to see us attack and score three goals.
Great credit to Moyes for making a difference with his substitutions ? twice in a row.
Now that the confidence in the camp must be sky-high after three wins, how about we go into games looking to win rather than trying not to lose?
Outside the top four, there?s no-one to fear in this league. Let?s push on and starting taking the game to the opposition.
What we started with was a 4-4-2 with Anichebe being slightly wide and Cahill in an advanced midfield role. When we play this formation with Cahill we are emasculated in midfield.
We were poor, and Moyes's changes did not win the game ? Louis Saha?s skill against the run of play won the game.
I'm happy with the win, because we?ll need the points if we keep playing such attrocious football... But my god, Why oh why does Moyes show such unwillingness to learn from his mistakes!
We started to come in to the game from 60 minutes onward and with the exception of them playing a bit of keep ball after they scored, were pretty much in control for the final third of the game. They were exhausted after 70 minutes and it was only a matter of time before we scored.
Parker was brilliant for most of the game but his lack of fitness was largely responsible for Saha finding space to cross for Lescott?s header. All in all, an excellent away performance to soak up the pressure and kill them off at the end. By the way, for all their so called dominance, they only mustered 10 shots at goal. We managed 11. COYB!
We have one of the best forward lines in the country.
We have one of the worst midfields in the country.
So lets stop putting round pegs in square holes. If you're going to play a 17-year-old (who hasn't impressed me ? what is his rightful position?), let's give other youngsters a go, instead of playing big Vic on the wing.
??Moyes seems to be doing his best to undermine our ability to play football. I?m sick of saying it..??
Don?t say it then.
??Moyes seems to be doing his best to undermine our ability to play football. I?m sick of saying it..??
Don?t say it then.
I dont think Cahill would ever be dropped... the fact that Moyes took off Fellaini before him last week suggests that Moyes will be bloody minded with this one for a long time to come...
Can you tell me what exactly Vaughan did when he came on to change the game?
To suggest we won that game because of Vaughan in tenuous to say the least..
I am giving credit where it is due....to Saha!
Ciaran can you tell me why you think our win had nothink to do with Vaughan? Is it because this would involve giving David Moyes some credit?
Nobody is unhappy about the result on Saturday, nor the 2 turgid wins against Bolton & Fulham. I believe the point these guys are trying to make is that we are simply riding our luck and the wins owe virtually nothing to the efforts of Moyes.
And to be fair, when Moyes is interviewed after these games he seems as bemused as the next person as to how Everton have won the games. One aspect of his aproach is undeniable IMHO. His ability to change things through tactical variation (during a game) and astute substitutions. He ponders for eternities and then, as many have observed, usually makes quetstionable decisions after the horse has bolted.
Replacing Fellaini rather than Cahill is a case in point. I applaud him for buying Fellaini, who I think will become a god. The kid already has presence and will get better & better. He can play, dictate, tackle and score. Cahill (it pains me to say because I love the guy) has been AWOL since his return. Never looked likely to do anything. A good manager would spot his indecision and lack of confidence and realise that he?s taking up one of 10 important outfield positions and not contributing. Ipso facto he has a spell out of the team & certainly doesnt get in ahead of Fellaini.
I?ve always liked Vaughan and would love to see the kid have a run in the team. I also think Victor has grown in every way since the olympics. Thus the same thing follows here. If Saha is misfiring then Vaughan or Vic deserve the chance. Might sound ridiculous after scoring 2 on Sat, but if he?s not giving their defenders any grief when they have the ball, or offering us a route out of defence/midfield it?s hurting us in other areas of the pitch.
And that finally brings us to the elephant in the room, i.e. the form of Arteta. Half of me wants to make him captain and half of me wants to drop him. I truly believe much of his form, like others, is down to Moyes?s pathetic ditherings since May that led to a ruinous pre-season and clear discontent in the squad. I think Arteta really cares about the team and the club, possibly too much and maybe that was the problem.
Moyes HAS to improve his decision making. For me that means before the game and during the game. He needs the strength of character to leave out Arteta and Cahill (he?s done it with Lescott & Yobo). I think Moyes needs, no not needs, has an obligation, to take the team away at the earliest opportunity and put all the demons and shit from May till August to bed and re-invigorate the whole set up. That might also include explaining to Baines why he isnlt playing.
So there we are. Pleased with the results but totally unconvinced. We look vulnerable & devoid of any shape, style or plan. I went to West Ham last year for the cup game and we put on an exhibition. Everything played on the floor, great movement and brimming with confidence. I also remember a certain Lee Carsley having a cracking game. Hmmmmm.
I didn?t say Vaughan had nothing to do with the win; he was on the pitch, he was of course involved.
But to paint this as some masterstroke by Moyes is clutching at straws...
I think I?ll give the credit for this one to the boys involved if you don?t mind.
Explain it to me....
When everything is shite = Moyes fault.
When we win 3 on the trot = Luck.
The credit where it?s due issue has got to be: to Moyes, to the team, to the coaching staff.
It?s your opinion and I know you call it how you see it. But you are on Moyes?s case all the time. People are not machines. For instance, you say Cahill cannot play in a 4-4-2. But, I?d have to say, well it?s not his best postition but that doesn?t mean he can?t play in a four-man midfield. Moyes is not a machine; that means he makes mistakes. He is still going to make mistakes. But I think the problem is you just don?t like Moyes. Maybe it?s his style.
The team are grinding out results at the moment. We are winning games without playing particulary well. Winning is not a bad habit to get into. Moyes did that. Do you think if Mike Walker took charge for the last 3 games we would have got the same results???
Explain? No Problem. Shite tactics, Head scratching formations, Dodgy substitutions, players played out of position and others dropped for no apparent reason = MOYES FAULT..
Players not being able to pass the ball to a blue shirt, hoofing it needlessly and genrally not applying themselves = PLAYERS FAULT.
Having to ?watch this space? = Kenwrights fault.
Now, your suggestion that I do not give Moyes credit when it is due is premised upon the assumption that he has done anything right in the last 3 games ? I?m not of the opinion that he has made a completely rational judgement call in the last 3 games!
The last three games have been questionable formations from the start ? therefore from the start of these games he was always trying to correct his own mistakes... and even in attempting to do this ? he failed.
If you want to give Moyes credit for Saturday then you do that ? I?d rather give the credit to inspirational work from Saha... rather than to the man who put us on the backfoot in the first place!
ps: Your assumption that ?I don?t like Moyes? is wrong... I simply don?t like the repetitive mistakes he makes.
pps: Less of the vacuous Mike Walker nonsense.
If David Moyes would have left Vaughan on the bench and introduced him with 5 minutes to go and we lost the game 1-0, what would your reaction have been?(In fact I think I can answer this one myself ? you woud have come on here crucifying Moyes for not making a change earlier and not doing anything to try and get something from the game.)
Just another thing, Ciaran:- I didn't say Moyes made a masterstroke but he did make a good decision by bringing Vaughan on. Three reasons why I say this are:-
1. Moyes made the change straight away instead of waiting like he usually does (maybe he?s learning)
2. Vaughan did make a difference when he came on and the players seemed to respond and up their game (that's the impression I got).
3. And most importantly, Moyes brought a defensive minded player off (Rodwell) when he could have easily just made a straight swap (Saha or Anichebie). He knew that we were on top even though we had gone a goal behind and he chose to go for it instead of making his usual mistake when we go a goal behind of just plodding on and hoping we nick a goal and get a point. For that he deserves some credit.
Ciaran, I don't in any way think the sun shines out of Moyes?s arse and when he makes mistakes, I too criticise him but I also like to give him credit when it's due ? unlike you.
I answered both your questions.
I?m not prepared to engage in some infinitely regressive ?what if? scenario...
It?s pointless.
COYB
Credit where it?s due becuase;
a). Moyes has got the team motivated
b). He is trying to get the team to play more attacking football.
c). For buying Saha. For taking a chance on Saha. For sticking with him and giving him confidence to play and express himself.
d). For NOT playing PN in midfield
e). For showing faith in great young talent; Fellaini & Rodwell.
f). For not making too many changes to a winning team.
We haven?t got a massive pool of talent to choose from. We haven?t got the Billions of Chelsea or Man City. But we have got a good manager who has given us back our belief and respect.
I was under the impression that this thread was about giving Moyes credit for the game on Saturday... I fail to see the point of trudging through his past in a misguided attempt to suggest I have never given him credit. But if you insist on doing it then I suppose I?ll play...
a) No he hasn?t, they look about as motivated as he does.
b) How do you know that? To play attacking football you need to be able to control the ball in midfield, we are struggling to do that... playing Cahill in a 4-4-2 is one of the reasons that we are struggling to do that ? who picks him in that formation?
c) Yeah, I?ve always liked Saha ? but it was still a typical Moyes signing ? a Lazarus signing as I like to call it... But yes, glad he?s here!
d) Yes, It only took him nearly 4 years (including a new 4-year contract) to realise that. I suppose he deserves some credit for not taking 5 years to realise it... however, I wouldn?t speak too soon if I was you.
e) Fellaini cost £15mill... and Rodwell was brought in because we had no other option... what about young talent like Hughes, Vidarsson or Kissock... or what about his judgement on decidedly dodgy young talent such as Spencer?
f) To suggest that it is good not to make changes to a winning team even though they are playing like a bunch of schoolboys is hardly something anyone could admire.... Our team needs changes particularly in the picking of players out of position and those who are not playing well. When he does that, I?ll give him credit for that... unfortunately churning out the same crap isn?t something I tend to look on as favourable.
Okay then - back to Saturday. Who played out of position? By your own admittance Rodwell played due to a lack of options. I didn’t see too many players playing out of position.
PS. You can’t have Lescott, as he got player of the year for playing at LB.
PPS You can’t have Cahill as he is actually a midfielder.
I don’t like this game.
Well okay, I’ll do it for you then.....
GK: Howard - well he is a goalie
RB: Phil Nev - yes this IS his best position
CB: Yobo - he actually plays RB for Nigeria. But he is a centre half.
CB: Jags - this is HIS best position. He was called into the England squad in this position.
LB: Lescott - won player of the year at LB. Played CB first couple of games this year and, well lets say he didn’t have the same form....
RW: Arteta - Not having his best season, but he is the darling of the Goodison faithful. We don’t have a better Right midfielder in the squad. He certainly isn’t out of position.
CM: Rodwell - well he used to play at CB put he is an outstanding midfield prospect.
CM: Cahill - would not have played had Felliani not been banned. He is a midfielder.
LW: Osman - has played here many many times. Pienaar being injured was unfortunate.
UF: Saha - he is a forward
UF: Anichebe - he is a forward.
Like I said - I don’t see too many players playing out of position. Managers have to try players in different positions. Rodwell might still be playing at RB if Moyes didn’t try him out in midfield.
As I said, I don?t like the contrived terms of your game - so I?m not playing (not to mention the fact that I?d only be repeating myself)...
But Yobo is a centre half for Nigeria and Lescott is a centre half also.
Contrived my backside!
My point is still the same; Moyes is not playing players out of position.
As I said previously we haven?t played the best football this season. We had lost games that we shouldn?t have. We gave our worst ever derby performance. But to come from that and produce the gritty wins that we have recently shows character. Some of that is down to the manager.
Sunday it?s Boro.
I?ll bet that Moyes plays Arteta and (at some stage) Cahill. He will stick with these boys because they are having a bad spell and need to come out of it. Both have given so much to the team over the last two years. Both have given a lot to Moyes. Both are due goals and/or a MOM perforance.
One last thing...
The Yobo thing is sort of irrelavent but he has played alot of games at RB for Nigeria. But he’s not out of position at centre half.
Lescott. Didn’t he play at LB for England. I like the new England manager. He knows what he is doing...
Winning ugly may help Capello look in the mirror
Fabio Capello?s reputation is for wining by any means necessary and this, unfortunately, is exactly what England require
Kevin McCarra September 9, 2008 12:01 AM
The most famous manager in the world was looking for a job and the FA had a vacancy. Here was a recruitment process as simple as it was expensive. Later the ruling body was to set a target of at least a semi-final appearance at the next World Cup or Euro 2012. It would have been a slur to ask any less of Fabio Capello, considering all that he has achieved in the past.
If he is to live up to that expectation it will not be through visionary football. The Italian has never had much truck with idealism. Even Milan?s magisterial 4-0 win in the 1994 European Cup final, when circumstances forced him to employ an uncommonly artistic line-up featuring Dejan Savicevic, had been preceded by Johan Cruyff?s ill-advised boast that it was his Barcelona team
that embodied football at its purest and most advanced.
Capello?s reputation is for getting the job done by whatever means are required. This practicality, unfortunately, is exactly what England need nowadays. The interest in the national team is always great and, in that overheated environment, it is easy to forget how disproportionate it can be to the actual status of the squad.
Jermain Defoe has not only started the last four matches for England but was expected to do so. However, he chose Portsmouth because Dimitar Berbatov and Robbie Keane had reduced his opportunities at Tottenham. Emile Heskey might appear instead of Defoe in the line-up for tomorrow?s match with Croatia, but he, similarly, was put on the course to his current club, Wigan, via Birmingham City, because Liverpool were ready to offload him.
Glen Johnson, another member of the Portsmouth staff, was in the line-up against Andorra at the weekend and he, also, had found the competition too keen at his previous club, Chelsea. Though this could be a cue for fulmination about foreign mercenaries suffocating local talent, Capello, a soldier of fortune himself, cannot take that stance.
He goes no further than the occasional reference to the limited number of eligible players. Ideally, he would have a group of Englishman who, in a cosmopolitan environment, had been provoked to reach a high standard as they triumphantly established themselves at the leading clubs. There are people in that category, but not quite enough of them.
The players available to Sven-Goran Eriksson were, broadly speaking, in better shape than they are now. For Capello, the prosaic style of Wayne Rooney is not so much a mystery as a vexation. No one forgets what the attacker was like when on the loose at Euro 2004. What became of the then teenager who ran amok on his debut for Manchester United later that year?
In that meeting with Fenerbahce in the Champions League, he brought up his hat-trick after almost barging team-mates aside so that he could take the free-kick that, inexorably, hit the net. A professional, adult career is not conducted in that brazen, intuitive way, but it is galling that Rooney, for all his skill, is yet to attain a mature superiority that will let him overwhelm the opposition again.
The public at large appreciates how much lies with a handful of players. Accordingly there was dismay at the exclusion of Michael Owen from the current squad. Capello?s verdict that the forward is not fully fit is incontrovertible. Indeed, injury problems contributed to a four-month period last season where he produced a single goal.
To many people, the issue of his physical condition is an irrelevance so long as the predator?s instinct continues to flicker inside him. That willingness to depend on Owen in all circumstances is its own commentary on the dearth of alternatives. Even the stoic Capello has to snatch at whatever opportunities arise to cheer himself up.
After the win over Andorra, he responded to questions about Theo Walcott with real approval. As the press conference was ending he spontaneously threw in more compliments for the 19-year-old. This might indicate that there will be a use for his pace on the break against Croatia, but it reflects, too, the manager?s consciousness of restricted choice.
He must take encouragement where he can find it. All in all, he will feel justified in imposing the pragmatism that is his natural stance. In Zagreb we will see how well he can neutralise the midfield verve that is the key to Croatia?s success. Capello could achieve all that the FA asks, but there will have to be judicious ugliness along the way.
Moyes plays players out of position all the bloody time...and if your denying that then I don?t think this conversation is going anywhere..
here?s a list.
Lescott.
Cahill.
Osman.
Anichebe.
Neville.
Jags.
Lescott may have been picked for England's left back position... but that doesn?t change his natural, and best position.
He could be one of the best centre halves we?ve ever had and he?s being ruined.
Quote... ’Neville into midfield is a great idea... why has that never been done before!’
Are you taking the piss! He has been there before and he sucks at it, no passing ability and nowhere near the same tackling ability as Cars had or still has.
Quote... ’To play attacking football you need to be able to control the ball in midfield’
Eeerrrmm, is 424 not attacking with hoofing the ball past midfield. I thought it was, and u dont need a midfield for that. Attractive football needs a midfield but it doesn’t make it more attacking!
At the end of the day, a football game last 90+ minutes, if we have a fitter team the chances are we will steal a goal or two in last few minutes. And if the likes of West Ham want to press for 70 minutes then run out of steam, that’s up to them.
A soon as our confidence is back up, our back 4 and keeper will be a solid as ever. We need a couple more faces in midfield for competition for places, as we just can’t compete in midfield when we have an injury or two. As for our forwards, Yak and Saha, on paper with injury free Saha, you can’t get much better, especially with Vic and Vaughn as back up.
I believe I alluded to the fact that Moyes HAS changed players from one position to another. So I’m agreeing that he HAS done that! However this thread is about West Ham. I’m just not sure who played out of position there?
Jags was an average midfielder. Now he is becoming an excellent centre back. Lescott, well I just see that differently; you view Lescott and say we are ruining our best centre half? I view Lescott and say good centre half (cover for Yobo and Jags) and Excellent left back.
Baines is a good player. But Pienaar, Osman and Arteta are too small so it leaves us short on set pieces. If you look at it - it’s tactics. Moyes is ensuring that on set pieces FOR and AGAINST we have the height to compete. If we had a taller midfield then we could incorporate Baines.
First of all, Jagielka is NOT turning into an ?Excellent? centre half....He is a good defender who has limitations to his game, including his slowness, his tendency to get dragged out of position and ultimately his preference for lauching the ball at every opportunity... That is not an ?excellent centre back?, that is an excellent defensive player who is lacking in other areas... to be an excellent centre back you need to be competent in all areas expected of you... he is not.
Secondly, Lescott is not an excellent left back... he struggles to deal with players coming in from the wing and has problems containing players attacking him down the flank ? he also has problems with crossing, passing (another hoofer) and dribbling... which are pretty important facets of what is essentially a wing back position given our lack of wingers. You may point to Lescott's inclusion in the England squad... but I would suggest that was merely down to his goals last season which would have come whether he was playing in left back or centre half as they were mostly from set pieces!
Thirdly, I don?t buy this height ballix.... it's a simple obfuscation ? If Moyes didn?t have 3 centre halfs to keep happy, then Baines would be on the pitch, it?s as simple as that!
Okay, we will agree to disagree about Jags and Lescott.
Gettings back to the original point.... who was out of position???
Cahill is an attacking midfielder. You have an opinion that he can’t play in a 4man midfield. That’s your opinion. He played there for Millwall and scored goals. He has played there for us and scored goals. He therefore wasn’t exactly out of position.
Lescott is a solid left back. Yes he has limitations, but that would also be true of most players in most teams.
Anichebe, not sure what you meant there? He played up front, except for the last ten minutes..... when we scored 3. Do you mean that his best position is RW and Moyes has found that out???
OK, we have got Tiny Tim, Mikky and Little Leon but these two players would add a bit of craft to our limited midfield.
Don't go saying we want better than these two because we don't have the money!!!
Two of our in form players were missing on Saturday, Fellaini and Pienaar... and Yak has to return to form soon as does Mikel and TC. Take the points while we can, the form will return along with the confidence.
I consider Cahill a deep lying striker... to consider him a midfielder of any kind he would need to be able to demonstrate ability in that role; for me, he doesn?t. We call our formation a 4-5-1 with him in it, but it isn?t, it?s a 4-4-1-1.
As for Anichebe.... he started the match in right midfield, he seemed to switch with Cahill in being the support strike but effectively that meant that at any one time at least one of these two players was playing out of position.
As for Lescott... he?s been absolute cack in the left back position. Certainly not ?solid? as you suggest.
I think we?ll have to agree to differ on this one..
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1 Posted 09/11/2008 at 20:56:10
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I?m glad that you think Rodwell is developing but from "my seat" we were completely overrun in midfield. Parker ran the show.
Jags as usual got the tackles and blocks in but his distribution is up there with Cahill?s (that?s not a complement).
Only 2 players that can take any credit from that dross that I saw on Saturday were Howard and Saha.