The Rumour Mill, Season 2011-12

West Ham [are not] interested in Osman

28/05/2012 | Comments (142)
The Twitter rumour du jour is that West Ham are looking at the experience of Leon Osman to help them in their bid to stay up next season.

And if you suspend your belief long enough, you can accept that Everton have turned down a £6m bid for the midfielder!

Madness, if true, but it almost certainly isn't.

Update: As if to underscore the ridiculousness of the "silly season", the caveat emptor that accompanies our Rumour Mill section and the scepticism with which you should approach anything transfer-related on social media, the Twitter account that originated this Osman rumour is dragged over the coals on Football Editorial  for making stuff up, including a Naismith-to-Everton story.

Original Source: Twitter

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Sam Hoare
171   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:09:59

Report abuse

Add a zero and we might think about it...
John House
172   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:14:58

Report abuse

£0.6m
Paul David
173   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:17:33

Report abuse

Turn down £6m?

Even Moyes isnt that loyal.

Aidy Dews
174   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:18:52

Report abuse

You wanna bet, Paul #173?!! Haha... the likes of Ossie and Hibbo will leave us in a box!
Mark Riding
175   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:20:46

Report abuse

I blame Hibbert and Nolan...

Just isnt the same is it !

Tom Rowe
177   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:23:31

Report abuse

Laughable. But should be in the England team. Never even been in a squad. Shame because every Everton player will tell you he has the silkiest skills and the quickest feet at the club. So long as he doesn't play wide he is brilliant!
Andrew Lawrenson
178   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:27:05

Report abuse

This must be some sort of joke, the fee I mean, I can imagine why WHU would be interested in Ozzie but there is no way on earth they would offer 6million for him, if they have, then Bungling Bill must rip that clowns hand off....i forget his name...but lets rest assured somewhere along the line Bungling Bill will fuck it up and end up throwing Jelavic into the deal for a good deal less
Matt Traynor
179   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:35:18

Report abuse

On the hierarchy of rumour sources, is twatter above or below TalkShite?
Stephen Kenny
180   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:53:43

Report abuse

The same fella has touted loads of crap over the past few days. One being Yobo to Leicester for a million or something else ridiculous.
Stephen Kenny
181   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:54:47

Report abuse

I'm not sure WHU have got £6m to play with anyway but a side coming into this division looking to stay in should be interested in players like Leon. He'd chip in with his share of goals, doesn't hide and is a good proffessional.

For me the reason he's never been near England is there are better players about, not loads though, and there's still a fair debate about where his best position is?

Dick Brody
183   Posted 28/05/2012 at 20:05:57

Report abuse

£6 million? In all honesty I would turn that down too.

Osman may not produce in every match but when he's on form he's a fantastic midfielder who can work hard, be creative and most importantly score goals.

If Osman played for Liverpool he would have over 20 England Caps.

It's easy to knock him because he frequently does disappear, especially in big games, but overall Osman is an underrated gem of a player.

£6 million? Double it and I may talk shop.

Joe McMahon
185   Posted 28/05/2012 at 20:09:47

Report abuse

Stephen (181) his best position certainly isn't in the starting 11 at Wembley!

Good/useful player against weaker teams, but against the big boys time asnd time again he goes missing. A little too lighweight aswell. Honest and local yes, but tahst not enough for any established prem club these days.

Mark Riding
186   Posted 28/05/2012 at 20:17:08

Report abuse

Joe. Couldnt agree more.
A combined £7m for Yobo & Osman.. lets hope the rumours are true !
Bobby Thomas
187   Posted 28/05/2012 at 20:15:53

Report abuse

Tom(177); Leon Osman is not good enough to play for England.

Due to his ability to play all across midfield and off the striker he is a very, very good squad man in a team that wants to have a dart at the top 4.

He cannot play any of these positions to approaching top quality domestic league standard, so international football is just not going to happen.

He would, however, look like Riquelme in the Championship.

Jon Ferguson
189   Posted 28/05/2012 at 20:23:29

Report abuse

I like Osman but if they were to offer £6 mil (which could be reinvested), for a 31 year old who is behind Fellaini and Gibson, Rodwell when fit at a time we need to start giving Barkley some proper game time, it's a no brainer.

I can't see it happening myself. 6 mil seems a bit out of context. I'd hold on to him for 3 or less. Good player to have in the squad.

John Tyrrell
190   Posted 28/05/2012 at 19:24:35

Report abuse

I can believe they wanted ossie. But can't believe they offered us 6 million. If I was dreaming sell ossie for 6 and yobo for 3 that would be enough to buy pienaar, Donovan and Fernandez on a free. That would give us 5 across the middle of Donovan, Fernandez, gibson, Fellaini, and pienaar. Europe here we come. X
Steve Burgess
193   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:07:05

Report abuse

Twitter is shit and you are a bunch of gobshites if you would offload Ossie to a load of cockernees managed by Allardyce. Treat the fella with a bit of respect and acknowledge he is a very decent one club player who still adds something to EFC.
Paul Ellam
194   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:18:54

Report abuse

I actually quite like Osman and would prefer if we kept him. As people have said, he is at his best against the smaller teams ? so let us use him in them games... after all, it is a squad game. Better players can play the bigger games. At least we know what we are getting with Osman; to bring in somebody else could be a gamble not worth taking.
Kevin Day
195   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:21:57

Report abuse

I for one think our little ossie is a cracking little player and is one of a kind, he's never in the paper for the wrong reasons, dedicated to our beloved club and should be used as an shining example to the younger players on how to conduct yourself, it would be a shame to lose him, not that this rumour has any weight. But, 6 milion, 31 yrs old, IF it was true, then a club with our financial state would seriously have to consider it, but ONLY to tie up peanuts.
Drew O'Neall
196   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:33:50

Report abuse

Sorry Ossie if you are reading this but empty vessels make the most noise.

As for the post about him playing for England, I actually agree that he is the type of player that England lack, someone brave enough to receive the ball in opposition territory and run with it.. Gerrard, Lampard, Barry etc all want to pass to the full back.

Liam Reilly
197   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:32:55

Report abuse

Osman is just the right size midfielder for Big Ssms defence to whack the ball over his head.
Dean Adams
199   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:42:08

Report abuse

And people complain about Bill Kenwright being a total twat!!! What a bunch of jokers we have on this site. Ossie is blue through and through. Not the greatest ever player, but no where near as bad as some on here would suggest. They must be a barre lof laughs on a wet and windy day.
Derek Williams
200   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:44:07

Report abuse

Amazing how players perceived as being disloyal to the club are given endless grief whereas players like Ozzie, who has never done anything other than his best for us, is receiving disloyalty from some fans on here. Double standards anyone?
Derek Williams
201   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:44:07

Report abuse

Amazing how players perceived as being disloyal to the club are given endless grief whereas players like Ozzie, who has never done anything other than his best for us, is receiving disloyalty from some fans on here. Double standards anyone?
Paul David
202   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:46:04

Report abuse

I agree Osman isnt as bad as some make out but he's not as great as some make out either.
Callum Wilson
203   Posted 28/05/2012 at 21:50:45

Report abuse

Post #196 "I actually agree that he is the type of player that England lack, someone brave enough to receive the ball in opposition territory and run with it.. Gerrard, Lampard, Barry etc all want to pass to the full back."

If we are talking about being direct then surely a good stat to judge Osman against Gerrard and Lampard is goals scored, Osman has never scored more than 6 league goals in a season, Lampard has just scored at least 10 goals in 10 individual seasons, Gerrard has never been outscored by Osman in a season. Personally I hate them two gobshites especially Gerrard but to say that he is more direct than them two and deserves a place in the England team ahead of either of them is ridiculous, also he isn't better than Wilshere, Milner, Lennon, Walcott and Young. I'm just curious who people who think Ossie deserves a place in the England team as to who he should displace.

Richard Dodd
206   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:13:27

Report abuse

Possibly the most consistent player in our Prem history. Because he is `one of ours`he has never had the same acclaimation as ,say,Cahill but has served us just as well throughout the Moyes` years.
Keep him-and give him a good rise-he`d double his wage if he moved to the Hammers!
Kevin Hudson
207   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:14:11

Report abuse

I must confess I would actually be sorry to see Leon leave.

A hard-working, clever & under-valued player; remorselessly & disproportionately slagged-off for the weaknesses in his game.

Happily, I can't see him leaving any time soon either.

Ciarán McGlone
208   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:20:50

Report abuse

The most consistent player in our Prem history?

Oh my good grief... he is probably the most INCONSISTENT player we had in our team throughout that period.

One minute he's sublime, the next he can't pass five foot.

If you think he's been our most consistent then you don't watch a lot of Everton.

Robbie Muldoon
209   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:21:01

Report abuse

Osman is fucking shite, being a weak link in our big games for too long now. Harsh, but true IMO. Nothing personal against him, I bet he bleeds Everton, but so do I and I'm not good enough. Talk of an England call up? Turn it in yous are embarassing all Evertonians.
Spragg Johnson
210   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:26:23

Report abuse

6 million would be a reasonable fee to expect ... if he was 21 rather than 31. Good squad player, quick feet etc etc ... but my favourite memory is his header which beat Citeh at Goodison season before last ... brave and technically brilliant. Ossie will be at Goodison for two more seasons and then end up as player coach somewhere like Rochdale or Oldham ... Nostradamus has spoken.
Dick Fearon
211   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:34:14

Report abuse

Everyone be quiet, there could be a smidgeon of truth in this and we don't want to let personal opinions ruin things.
Drew O'Neall
212   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:35:05

Report abuse

Callum 203 - you're at best paraphrasing there mate, actually it's more like putting words in my mouth. The point I didn't really do a good job of making was that international football is a different game and you can't expect the crash, bang, wallop of the Premier League to be successful and I think Gerrard and Lampard have proved unequivocally that it isn't.

There's a greater emphasis on technique and less so on athleticism and frankly English football doesn't produce the small technical players who succeed at the highest level ie Iniesta, Xavi, Zola, Maradonna, Aimar, Deco, Juninho, Ozil, etc. They are left behind before they are even teenagers.

As for Robbie 209 - "Turn it in yous are embarassing all Evertonians"

..Aw, I can't be bothered, yous are probably in bed by now anyways.

Roman Sidey
215   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:52:47

Report abuse

For 6m? Even if the money wasn't reinvested in the squad this would be nothing but good for the club.
Mark Riding
216   Posted 28/05/2012 at 22:57:28

Report abuse

Richard #206, you say "Keep him-and give him a good rise-he`d double his wage if he moved to the Hammers! "

Is this true ? How much is Osman on at Everton ? If he could double his wages fair play..

Dennis Stevens
219   Posted 28/05/2012 at 23:20:53

Report abuse

In contrast to so many opinions in this thread, the end of season statistical analysis on executionersbong states "... for the second season running Leon Osman?s figures in terms of importance make him the key man; when he plays the Blues win 46% with a drop to 20% when he doesn?t; the biggest drop in the squad" - I suspect those figures would be even better if he was played in his best position, say alongside Fellaini & Gibson. Used appropriately, I'm sure he could have added something a little different to the England squad & far worse players have been capped, sometimes on numerous occasions. It would be a mistake to sell him for what would probably be a quite modest fee.
Ciarán McGlone
220   Posted 28/05/2012 at 23:46:54

Report abuse

It would probably be helpful if people who use stats knew the difference between 'correlation' and 'causation'.

Make him the key man? Er... no they don't.

Bjørn-Ivar Pedersen
225   Posted 29/05/2012 at 00:36:45

Report abuse

Osman is a player I think will last longer than Cahill... and he is a asset to our squad, so he is indeed needed in the team. And he is in fact one of our few home boys.
But... for this kind of money I will have no problem to see him go.

But at the end... it is just rumor... right?

Paul Kelly
226   Posted 29/05/2012 at 00:49:47

Report abuse

Though it's probably BS. The money from the transfer could be used to secure the likes of Pienaar and maybe Fernandes (wages).

What would you prefer?

James Flynn
230   Posted 29/05/2012 at 01:16:03

Report abuse

Keep Osman. And find a strength-building program for when he strikes the ball.
Callum Wilson
231   Posted 29/05/2012 at 01:47:02

Report abuse

Drew 212. Yer when you put it like that I get what you are trying to say and agree that international football is different but I still don't think he is good enough to make the grade I think scholes would be more helpful to the england team despite being about 80
Graham McCann
233   Posted 29/05/2012 at 01:47:49

Report abuse

Why slag the lad off? He's better than most midfielders in the EPL , otherwise he'd be playing for Wolves or Blackburn or some other shit team whose been relageted again. Give him a break you bunch of moaners. Loyalty should be applauded, not derided .
Jackie Barry
234   Posted 29/05/2012 at 02:10:49

Report abuse

For 6-million they can have Osman and Cahill
Ernie Baywood
236   Posted 29/05/2012 at 05:31:57

Report abuse

If it was true, which it isn't, then I'd be probably be more inclined to post some well thought out words.
Sam Hoare
239   Posted 29/05/2012 at 07:36:29

Report abuse

What ernie said.

Shows how bored we all are that such a preposterous twitter rumour is getting our attention.

Ray Roche
240   Posted 29/05/2012 at 08:12:00

Report abuse

Graham McCann

Graham, don't you dare talk about respecting players for what they've done/are doing for Everton. This is Toffeeweb, remember? Once they are slightly over the hill, or just approaching the lower slopes of said hill, they are all, without doubt, shite.
And don't you forget it.

Eugene Ruane
244   Posted 29/05/2012 at 09:14:45

Report abuse

Graham McCann's 'point' (233) was a whining non-point imo.

Basically a childish 'Arrr 'ey, don't be tight on him'.

He says..

"Give him a break you bunch of moaners. Loyalty should be applauded, not derided"

I agree but..so what?

Loyalty, IN THIS CONTEXT, would be Osman has had repeated offers to move to bigger, better clubs for bigger, better money and has said no because he feels a loyalty to Everton.

This was/is NOT the case.

Fact: Osman is NOT being constantly chased by other teams so his 'loyalty' consists of him being picked to play for Everton, playing ok sometimes, really well on occasion and shite sometimes.

AND being paid incredible money for the privilege.

Now explain, how EXACTLY has he shown this 'loyalty'.

For the record, I think he's alright as a player.

(and Ray, if TW upsets you so much...)

Chris James
246   Posted 29/05/2012 at 09:55:58

Report abuse

Simple economics this ? £6M for a 31-year-old who isn't a first team essential and plays in the one area we have competition for places is simply too good to turn down in our situation, hence why I believe it never happened in the first place.

This isn't to say I don't think he's a good player, quite the opposite, I think he is and has been a good servant for this club and is given far too much flack, I think because he's more of a flair player (ironically the ones that the boo boys keep banging on about us needing when they criticise our football as lacking ideas, etc) than a tackle-back and knock em'off the ball type.

Arran Leyland
247   Posted 29/05/2012 at 09:43:30

Report abuse

I do value Osman as a great squad player but agree with some of the comments on here that in the big games he can be found a bit wanting and I have been known to scream words like 'lightweight' and 'useless' at the TV when we play the better more physical teams. I wouldn't be very happy to see him go though as he is True Blue, has an occasionally awe-inspiring touch, and is really useful against the likes of QPR, Wigan and Norwich for the squad, particularly with his versatility across the midfield. He should not be in our first 11 though, if we are aspiring to be a team earning regular European/Champions League football.

Something which is very interesting though is the Castrol rankings of the Europe's best players. Guess which player is rated by far Everton's best and sits above Antonio Valencia, one place above Chelski's new £32 million pound man Hazard and just bellow Ozil and Barca's former Shite Mascherano at number 77 in European football? You guessed it. (link below)
http://www.castrolfootball.com/rankings/rankings/?team=&comp=&nation=&position=&search=&offset=60&jump=1

£6 million might be about right for the wizard :-) 

Danny Broderick
251   Posted 29/05/2012 at 10:06:50

Report abuse

It'll never happen, Moyes will never sell him or Hibbert. They could end up as coaches at Everton. Rightly so too, in my opinion. Football teams depend on much more than ability, and you need local lads to help team spirit and build the club up. These two probably wouldn't be in the first XI if Moyes ever gets big money to spend, but they are definitely good squad men and for that alone they are good for the club.

I remember times when Ossie has carried this team in fairness. Many people are quick to point out his performance at Wembley against Chelsea, but he has chipped in with some fantastic goals and assists over the years. He's done far more good than bad at Everton.
Graham McCann
255   Posted 29/05/2012 at 10:50:45

Report abuse

Ray Roche

"Don't you dare....." what is that supposed to mean?? I'll say what I want, THIS isToffeeweb after all.

Eugene, maybe my comment could of been interpreted as childish. However, my point was that Osman never complains in the media when he is dropped or played out of position. He gets on with it and does a better than OK job week in week out. He gets paid incredible money for the Privilege, but, hey, that's not his fault is it?

I hope my EXPLANATION is suffice for you mate.

Eugene Ruane
257   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:08:10

Report abuse

Graham (255) you say..

"Eugene, maybe my comment could of been interpreted as childish. However, my point was that Osman never complains in the media when he is dropped or played out of position. He gets on with it and does a better than OK job week in week out. He gets paid incredible money for the Privilege, but, hey, that's not his fault is it?"

Eh?

I don't remember reading that!

And If that WAS your point, why didn't you say it FIRST time rather than being forced into it?

Sorry but If I said "Osman is a twat!", was then criticised for this opinion and responded to the criticism with "My point was Osman is sometimes played out of position and is easily pushed off the ball", you would be posting "Bollocks that is nothing LIKE what you said!"

And you'd be right.

Andrew Clare
258   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:29:24

Report abuse

Osman has been a great asset to Everton and still is. I would be sad to see him leave as I still think he has a lot to offer.

There are other players in the first team squad who have been great servants but are past their best ? they should be moved on.
Graham McCann
259   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:30:07

Report abuse

Eugene, you asked me to explain my comments. So I did.
Phil Bellis
260   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:36:45

Report abuse

"Osman?", quick feet that one", said my Dad

"Mind you, so'd Ginger Rogers"

Dave Wilson
261   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:10:28

Report abuse

Leon Osman has shown himself willing to scarifice his own game to accomodate less talented players for years. He leaves nothing on the pitch and has always put the team before his own personel ambition.

There has been interest from other clubs and although he was never offered the sort of carrot dangled in front of players like Gerrard and Rooney, it`s worth noting that it took significantly improved offers from their current clubs to secure their "loyalty"

A cracking little player, who on grey days, has often been the only glimmer of talent on show.

If Leon Osman can't be called loyal then who can?

Kevin Tully
262   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:55:51

Report abuse

I have always had a lot of time for little Leon. Whenever he has been interviewed he seem like a good lad, very down to earth.

He has got a very good first touch, but is let down by his size, he also has the shot of a six year old boy.

I just don't think Moyes is at all ruthless when it comes to moving along this type of player - Cahill, Osman, Hibbert etc.

It could be he knows he won't see any of the money if he does sell anyone, so I won't knock him for it.

As someone mentioned, I can't wait for Moyes to pen his biography about his time at the club, I wonder if he will remember his loyalty to Kim Jong Bill ?

Barry Roberts
263   Posted 29/05/2012 at 11:59:34

Report abuse

@ post 260, Who does Ginger play for and is she available on a free? maybe I'll tweet that we are interested.
Graham McCann
265   Posted 29/05/2012 at 12:13:11

Report abuse

Dave Wilson, thanks for explaining my explanation
James Stewart
268   Posted 29/05/2012 at 12:28:57

Report abuse

Osman is a very technically good player and I think it would be stupid to sell him. Great option to have in the squad. West Ham would be lucky to have someone like him and I can see why they would want him.
Anto Byrne
272   Posted 29/05/2012 at 12:57:42

Report abuse

I can't see him leaving but you never know ? the lure of filthy lucre may turn his head!
Thomas Windsor
275   Posted 29/05/2012 at 13:23:47

Report abuse

Too good to be true; I have liked Osman but £6 million? Snap their hands off.
Drew O'Neall
277   Posted 29/05/2012 at 13:43:35

Report abuse

That UEFA cup goal.. was it Larissa? One of the best I've ever seen from any present or past Evertonian.
James Martin
281   Posted 29/05/2012 at 15:06:30

Report abuse

What have Gerrard and Lampard ever done for England? Absolutley nothing in how many tournaments now?

At least Lampard has scored, Gerrard has been atrocious and has gone missing in so many big games at the top level yet the blame always gets put on the manager never the golden generation of players. Those type of players that need a team built around them to function and like all the glory do not thrive at the top level.

I'd fancy England's chances a lot more if they had Osman, Wilshere and Parker in midfield, players with technique, craft and touch rather than powerhouses like Lampard and Gerrard who just get passed around.

As for Everton, Osman has been exceptional for a long period of time. If he'd been allowed to play in the middle more than he has been then we would have seen a lot better football, our best performances of recent times have come with him in the middle. As it is he's had the graveyard shift on the wing and has rarely disappointed.

He carried us through the back half of last season and through the start of this one with his goals and assists. I never buy the 'he hasn't got a shot' argument, look at a compilation of his goals and compare them with any of the recent Everton midfielders. For technique and power few come close, only Arteta's match him and he didn't get as many as Osman.

Jamie Freeman
282   Posted 29/05/2012 at 15:19:35

Report abuse

James 281,

I couldn't agree more. Half of these posters must suffer from Alzheimer's. Obviously everyone has an opinion, but don't make-up or re-write history just to pad your own arguement.

Yeah Ossie gets paid a lot of money to be loyal. They ALL get paid LOADS of FLIPPING money ? every one of them, and most are not loyal at all.

Not a big game player? Man City home (in fact whenever we play City), Liverpool away last year. When we lose these 'big' games, it's usually because the team collectively has played below par.

James Stewart
283   Posted 29/05/2012 at 15:43:05

Report abuse

Agree entirely James Martin. The Gerrard, Lampard Terry etc embarrassed themselves at the last major tournament and will do the same again. Lampard did at least score like you said but Gerrard was just awful.

Osman is a cracking little player in my book. He would be comfortable with the Spanish style of play more than England's though. Typically he isn't even in the squad.

David Bryant
288   Posted 29/05/2012 at 17:18:00

Report abuse

A very good player who has sufffered for his unselfishness and/or Moyes's insistence in using him on the wing. He should have been used as a 'Number 10' from day one.
Ray Roche
295   Posted 29/05/2012 at 18:13:35

Report abuse

Graham McCann

I was being ironic, or sarcastic, whichever....but not directed at you.
Yer daft get.

Eugene@244

I like Toffeeweb, it's just some "fans" like nothing better than to slag our players off.
Coz they're all "shite"

Eugene Ruane
296   Posted 29/05/2012 at 18:18:20

Report abuse

Ray (295), you might not agree that Osman is shite, but if people think he is (nb: I take shite to mean, no good, hopeless etc) they're entitled to say so.

Why if they have a different read on the player is it because they 'like nothing better than to slag out players off'?

Sorry but complete bollocks.

Be honest, If someone said regarding a pro-Osman post of yours, "Oh some won't hear any criticism and would cheer Charles Manson if he had a blue shirt on" you wouldn't just accept it.

Well same diff!

By all means tell them you think they're talking shite, bollocks etc (nb: and why!) but the - "Tut! Blimmin miserable Toffeeweb" - stance, makes no sense if you yourself spend time posting opinions and reading the opinions of others.

By the way, putting "fans" in quotes doesn't make anyone less of a blue than you (no matter how much you'd like it to).

(And re Osman, as I said earlier, I personally don't think he's shite, but he's not Zico either!)

Paul Ferry
297   Posted 29/05/2012 at 18:28:43

Report abuse

Facts please. I want to know exactly who, when, and where offered real money for Osman. And I don't mean garbage rumours or Twitter and Twatter crowing. Hard facts, Wilson and others. When did a club similar or above to Everton come begging for Osman? Date, team and scale of the offer, please.
Gareth Humphreys
300   Posted 29/05/2012 at 18:59:29

Report abuse

I think Osman is a cracking little footballer. Always have.
Paul Johnson
308   Posted 29/05/2012 at 19:39:58

Report abuse

I don't dislike Osman, he has good days and he has bad days.

Just don't get this loyal thing, you can bet your bottom dollar if the mancs had come in for him (he is not that good) then he would have been away like a shot.

Doesn't deserve criticism coz Moyes plays him out of position a lot of the time but if you want loyalty go get a dog.

Which is probably all the banks will let us pay for this summer.....

Ray Roche
309   Posted 29/05/2012 at 19:43:56

Report abuse

Eugene,

I agree, surprisingly, with much of what you have said, after all, the cemeteries of northern France are full of men who have died to allow us free speech , which is why I am entitled to say what I like, within reason, and why you are entitled to refer to it as complete bollocks....

I sometimes get a bit pissed off with people coming on here with nothing positive to say. Unless , of course, it's "Osman is positively crap". Actually, I think he's an intelligent, talented player lacking only strength and real pace.

Tell me, do you not think that there is a section of contributors on here who can see no positives at all? Only this week someone on here was complaining that we had had Scottish players! Dear Lord...

Dennis Stevens
310   Posted 29/05/2012 at 19:36:44

Report abuse

Ciarán [220] I've no idea whether the executionersbong knows the difference between, or even the meaning of, 'correlation' and 'causation'. Do you think that those stats for the last two seasons may only indicate a 'coincidence' ?
David Bryant
312   Posted 29/05/2012 at 20:13:01

Report abuse

Drew @ 277 - enjoy!

I never tire of watching this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBruzHqrLIg

Eugene Ruane
319   Posted 29/05/2012 at 20:53:05

Report abuse

Ray (309).

Couple of points.

You say..

"I sometimes get a bit pissed off with people coming on here with nothing positive to say".

Well I wouldn't think of myself as 100% negative but I definitely veer that way.

However you really should consider that MANY Evertonians (especially those over 40) will see negativity as a perfectly natural stance/response for the present set-up.

Many will simply see it as is the right/logical 'reaction to the action'.

Consequently and naturally, they will see the opposite stance as odd.

Personally, I see the adopting of 'positivity no matter what' as VERY strange (nb: not saying that's you but there are quite a few who seem to wear their positivity as a badge of honour)

You ask me..

"Tell me, do you not think that there is a section of contributors on here who can see no positives at all?"

Yes, I think there ARE many who see no positives at all.

I also think that is their choice and they shouldn't feel the need to water down their opinions because you (or anyone else) would prefer something happier.

For the record, I would happily see Moyes replaced and Bill, Elstone and the rest and I think most of the football we have played for a long time has been shocking and entertainment-free.

I have one glimmer of light/positivity which is the the style of football we played from the second half of Swansea until the end of the season.

Continue to play it next season and I'll become more positive, go back to the old percentage shite and you'll see 100% negative from me as well.

Dick Fearon
329   Posted 29/05/2012 at 22:27:07

Report abuse

Ray 309, Eugene 337, The most positive I have been in many a long year was brought about by the rumour that West Ham were interested in Osman. I guess that didn't last long. Back to the old poison pen letters.

Damn those bringers of false hope!
Ray Roche
333   Posted 29/05/2012 at 22:30:49

Report abuse

Eugene,

I agree with your comments regarding people's right to make their point, without feeling the need to water it down. I am merely pointing out that a constant whingeing about different players being shite is tiresome in the extreme. That is MY point, and it is my right to say it, as you have already conceded.

I am in no way looking for a website where everyone skips about in sunshine, thinking that all is well with Uncle Bill's World. I'd spend my time on Bluekipper if that was the case.

And, yes, supporters over 40 can "see negativity as a perfectly natural stance/response for the present set-up" , I should know as well as you, I saw my first game in 1959 season and will all too soon collect my pension, so I can compare the current squad with our greatest. (There is no comparison, by the way.)

You are correct in your observation about our performances in the latter stages of the season. We played football as good as most teams in the Prem and our final position would have been much higher if that had been the standard from the beginning of the season. Or was I seeing the games through blue tinted specs...

Ray Roche
334   Posted 29/05/2012 at 22:47:42

Report abuse

Dick, you are a mischievous little scamp, aren't you?
Roman Sidey
339   Posted 29/05/2012 at 22:36:44

Report abuse

"Football teams depend on much more than ability". True, but ability is the first and most important quality you look for in a player.

People point to Osman's goals to how good he is. One poster has even compared his to Arteta's. The thing is, if you look at every one of his goals, how many shots/opportunities has he missed because he either doesn't have the stride, or his shot would struggle to knock over a house of cards? My estimate? A lot.

Tom Bowers
342   Posted 29/05/2012 at 23:24:32

Report abuse

I would sell Ossie in a heartbeat for 6 million. He has had his moments but not nearly enough for my liking but certanly enough for his number one fan-Moyes.
Steve Smith
348   Posted 29/05/2012 at 23:42:15

Report abuse

Agree with Drew O'Neall #277.

Yes it was "only" Larissa, but it was a fucking cracker of a goal. I don't think Ossie is England class but would probably be a regular if he was Welsh, Scottish or Irish. I think he's generally been a very good squad player for us, and the fact he plays a few differing roles maybe tempers the recognition he should have been given.
Piquet James
349   Posted 29/05/2012 at 23:24:26

Report abuse

Some know the price of everything, and the value of nothing.
Osman has been a fantastic player for us.
Paul Ferry
355   Posted 30/05/2012 at 01:57:07

Report abuse

I take Dave Wilson's silence to mean that, indeed, he has no evidence ? evidence that is a genuine bid of LO ? that another club of or above our stature has ever made a serious attempt to pry six-mill ship-him-straightaway Osman from his secure home. You do this time and time again, Wilson. Again, hard facts please.
Martin Mason
401   Posted 30/05/2012 at 13:24:33

Report abuse

I also rate Osman very highly as a player and loyal club employee. As a schoolboy and youth player he was the best in the country and unfortunately he didn't make it to the very top because of his size and perhaps lack of top pace. He has had bad games played out of position and he has had bad games against the very best opposition but he has also had very good games against many clubs.

For me he is a cracking player and absolutely underserving of a lot of the criticism that he gets. I doubt that anybody would pay £6 mil for him at his age in the current financial climate but he'd be a snip for a side like West Ham at £3-4 mil.
Graham McCann
403   Posted 30/05/2012 at 13:49:14

Report abuse

Ray Roche

Irony duly noted. Apologies for misplaced offence.

Ray Roche
442   Posted 30/05/2012 at 18:35:01

Report abuse

Graham, None taken.
Dave Wilson
458   Posted 30/05/2012 at 19:07:45

Report abuse

Paul Ferry

You're pefectly free to take Dave Wilson's silence to mean anything you want, but I would suggest it's probably down to him leaving the thread or doing a little of what his boss pays him to do. Now you have my attention and I will gladly answer you ? with facts.

I once saw and heard Paul Jewell tell Chris Kamara on Sky that he had twice approached Everton with a view to purchasing Ossie, once when he was managing Wigan and I THINK the other time was when he was at Ipswich (he didn't say).

I also know for a fact that George Burley tried to make his loan spell at Derby County permanent ? you should know this too.

Now I don't know the fees offered (probably not a lot and evidently not enough) but I do know that my statement about other clubs being interested in Ossie was indeed fact.

You seem to have gotten it into your head that SOMEBODY is claiming clubs above us had come begging for Ossie but I have scoured the thread and nobody is.

The point being made is Ossie has had several opportunities to move, become a bigger fish in a smaller pond if you like, but he chose to stay and when he backed himself to "make it" at Goodison, our club acquired a wonderful loyal servant for next to nothing.

You seem to be desperate to prove NONE of the big clubs have come "begging" for Ossie ? even though nobody actually said they had ? so go'ed then, the floor's yours, prove it.

Prove it was only the smaller clubs who had their offers rejected? Prove none of the big boys have ever made an enquiry?

But play by the rules you want to impose on others... just stick to the facts.

Paul Ferry
529   Posted 31/05/2012 at 05:26:27

Report abuse

Enough said:

"I once saw and heard Paul Jewel tell Chris Kamara on Sky that he had twice approached Everton with a view to Purchasing Ossie, once when he was managing Wigan and I THINK the other time was when he was at Ipswich (he didn't say).

"I also know for a fact that George Burley tried to make his loan spell at Derby County permanent ? you should know this too."

Dave Wilson
530   Posted 31/05/2012 at 05:53:21

Report abuse

Yes

that backs up what I said 100%, ,. Wanna try to back up what you said ?

Final request ; Give some clear facts to back up your claim that none of the big boys has ever tried to sign Ossie..

Come on now Paul. Although Your the only one in this Particular argument, you came back twice to have it . .how can you lose it ?

Matt Traynor
531   Posted 31/05/2012 at 07:19:36

Report abuse

I also seem to recall that early on in his career Ossie had a series of injuries (or a serious injury) which probably set him back a couple of years.
Dave Wilson
536   Posted 31/05/2012 at 08:14:42

Report abuse

Possibly Matt.

He came back after a very long absence and was loaned out to Carlisle. At the risk of turning this into a "what have the Romans ever done for us" job, They wanted him too.

Ossie has always divided opinion. God knows he has his critics, but footballers like Joe Cole have told us how highly rated he was by his peers, Holloway called him a "dream player" Wiltshire calls him the English Iniesta, while his current manager has made him part of the Goodison furniture.

West Ham may or may not want him, who knows? What we do know is that Everton want him and have wanted him enough to turn down offers from others throughout the best part of a decade.

Matt Traynor
540   Posted 31/05/2012 at 09:58:48

Report abuse

Agreed Dave. Some posters on here have a "scorched earth" policy of selling everyone they don't rate, and they are invariably the same people who complain about not having a squad (note, not team) to compete.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
591   Posted 31/05/2012 at 14:14:04

Report abuse

I wonder how many of these numerous offers for Osman that were repulsed by the Club over the best part of a decade actually warranted an entry in our comprehensive Rumour Mill?

2011-12 Season
2010-11 Season
2009-10 Season
2008-09 Season
2007-08 Season
2006-07 Season
2005-06 Season

Answer: None, Zero, Zilch.

Dave Wilson
595   Posted 31/05/2012 at 14:37:58

Report abuse

Why wasnt Carlisle's attempt to make the Ossie a loan a permanent one registered on the Rumour Mill? Who knows? I didn't know about TW back then... Maybe Folk just considered it common knowledge just like when George Burley asked for his move to Derby to be made permanent. Or maybe as Ossie had not yet established himself and nobody cared enough.

And why would Paul Jewel's comments make the Rumour Mill? He is no longer a manager ? he`s talking past tense

I`m guessing though that not every single transfer inquirey becomes common knowledge. Was it on the Rumour Mill when Arsenal made their first and what we now no to be very concrete bid for Arteta (a year before he actually left)? What about the transfers of Bily, Heitinge, Fellaini... did anyone see them coming? Was the Jelavic signing picked up before the day we actually signed him Fair play if they were, but I only remember being surprised by these signings.

Nobody has claimed the big clubs have come calling for Ossie ? I guess because they are not in a position to. And nobody should state catergorically that they haven't. Same reason of course

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
600   Posted 31/05/2012 at 15:54:52

Report abuse

If what you claim regarding the mighty Carlisle United actually happened, it would likely have been in December 2002, when Osman's loan ended (or possibly January 2003). On December 24, we reported:

Osman to return in January

24 Dec - Leon Osman will return to Everton on 4 January after completing a very successful 3-month loan with Carlisle. The promising young midfielder was voted Carlisle player of the month for October; will David Moyes give him a chance to be the creative midfielder we are crying out for?


No indication at the time that there was a move to make his loan permanent... in fact the companion story, that Everton prevented him from playing for Carlisle in earlier rounds of the FA Cup that season so that he would not be cup-tied, would strongly indicate the opposite: that there was no chance the loan could or would be made permanent... it wasn't.

Regarding his loan spell at Derby County the following season (January-April 2004), we noted that the fans wanted him to stay: Looking to the Future, but again, no mention of what you claim, although we did report that "David Moyes has said firmly that Ossie is not for sale, but implied strangely that he won't be considered for any of Everton's remaining games this season." We noted that George Burley was impressed with him, and according to the Everton website, his word were: "I will be doing what I can to make sure that Leon stays with us for as long as possible," said Burley. "David Moyes knows I like him." ? That was at the beginning of his loan spell, in February 2004 and the loan was extended at least twice after that; a desire to make his loan permanent may well have been there. But so what? Osman was playing at his proper level, trying to stop Derby's relegation from the Football League Division One. Surely that's not the crux of your case, is it?

As regards these other mythical offers you want others to prove didn't happen over the last decade... well you know you can't prove a negative, which is what you are demanding, but all the evidence suggests your claims in that respect are indeed false.

Lee Courtliff
602   Posted 31/05/2012 at 17:27:50

Report abuse

He didn't cost a penny in transfer fees and has proven that,at worst, he is a pretty decent squad player. Regardless of who may have bid for him Leon seems a good bloke who has put in many a good performance for us. He should have played centrally far more often. Useless out wide. But that is not his fault. I don't believe for a second that nobody has enquired about him during his many years at Goodison. It's just not possible.
Dave Wilson
606   Posted 31/05/2012 at 16:44:00

Report abuse

A desire to make his lone permanent MAY well have been there" . .May ? May ???

Dear me, if Burley had stormed finch farm and kidnapped Ossie he couldnt have made his intentions any clearer. "David Moyes knows I like him" . ."I will be doing what I can to make sure Leon stays with us as long as possible"

You neednt have bothered doing all that research about Carlisle either Michael, You should have just asked me, I got it straight from the horses mouth at the time. .do you even know who their manager was back then ?

I didnt come on here demanding others to prove a negative. I had made my point, that point being Ossie is a cracking player, loyal to the bone, who could have chosen an alternative rout but had the bollocks to back himself - thats all . . .no hint/ suggestion about top boys coming in for him . .but I was called back to the thread not once, but twice by somebody wanting me to prove what he THOUGHT I`d said - to prove a negative.
I merely turned the tables

Graham McCann
608   Posted 31/05/2012 at 18:29:57

Report abuse

After following this thread for a couple of days or so, all I can say is that Mr Osman has a lot to answer for.
Eugene Ruane
609   Posted 31/05/2012 at 18:17:27

Report abuse

Lee (602) you say...

"I don't believe for a second that nobody has enquired about him during his many years at Goodison. It's just not possible".

Do you mean 'enquired' or 'bid for'?

I ask as you start with 'bid' and change to 'enquired' and there IS a difference.

Whatever the truth, the POINT is, we have seen no real proof.

(nb: what you 'don't believe for a second' is proof of nothing).

Oh and the idea 'it's just not possible' is daft - of course it's possible.

(I quite like Osman but he's not Roy Race).

Lee Courtliff
611   Posted 31/05/2012 at 19:03:40

Report abuse

I don't need proof Eugene. I will just use common sense. An established player in a top 7 team will have had bids/enquiries at least once or twice bearing in mind he has played in the prem for 8 years now. Like I said, he has proven himself to be at least a decent squad player for us. To 'lesser' teams that means he would be their 'Iniesta'.

Do you honestly believe nobody has ever bid for him? Oh sorry, bid OR enquired for him? I've said before that Leon would have been better suited to French or Italian football. I know he's not Roy Race but he does have good technique and vision. Just not strong or quick enough to be a top player in our league. Shame, as I really like him and think he gets undue criticism sometimes.
Eugene Ruane
612   Posted 31/05/2012 at 19:17:54

Report abuse

Lee (611) You begin "I don't need proof Eugene"

Aaaaand that's as much as I need to read on that.

Lee Courtliff
619   Posted 31/05/2012 at 19:53:10

Report abuse

Good.
Jeremy Benson
622   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:03:25

Report abuse

I'd like to know how Downing has got into the England team with his poor season, when Ossie can't get in. Ossie is many things to many people; but he has been doing the same job for the last 10 years and that's scoring 6-10 a season and the same number of assists.

What has Downing done lately?

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
623   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:06:45

Report abuse

No, Dave, what you've pulled is your usual lazy-arse bullshit:

"What we do know is that Everton have wanted him enough to turn down offers from others throughout the best part of a decade."

Asking people to prove what has not happened IS asking proof of a negative, as in (your words): "Prove none of the big boys have ever made an enquiry?" "Give some clear facts to back up your claim that none of the big boys has ever tried to sign Ossie." ? that's called proving a negative; it can't be done!

Given your past and current economy with the truth, why on earth would I ask you anything?

Matt Traynor
625   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:14:35

Report abuse

Jeremy #622, you ask what Downing has done lately?
Given that Queen Kenny's sacking would count as his only assist...

Is now a good time to tell you that Henderson has come in for Lampard?

Joking aside, we all know the bias towards the media favourites when it comes to the national squad. I am amazed Everton have 2 players in the final England squad, even though one was through injury, and neither will likely start barring further injury.

Given players like Carrick and Scholes of Man U made themselves unavailable/refused to come out of retirement, you know they would still go for underachievers from the media teams.

I don't recall us ever being the media's favourite, more grudging admiration during our pomp in the 80s, and we often would provide almost half the England starting XI, let alone squad. Our decline coupled with Man U's rising in late 80s / early 90s - you could almost feel the collective media sigh of relief.

Jeremy Benson
626   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:21:00

Report abuse

Matt, it was hendersons impending call-up that made me post. I can't quite get my head around how carroll, henderson and downing can be in the england squad, when on current form they couldn't get into my local cricklade town fc's first team (good luck in the hellenic west div 1 ;), will be there as alwatys... ).

I can only presume the squad is picked on last transfer value.

Matt Traynor
629   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:40:29

Report abuse

Jeremy, you're probably right on the transfer value thing. I am actually glad Hodgson got the job and not Redknapp. I would even say I thought Redknapp wasn't as nailed on as the media thought, but was surprised (pleasantly) he didn't even get an interview.

I think Hodgson has a good record as a coach, international experience, and without the pressure of dealing with transfers, plus the fact he buys into the bigger FA vision of youth development, gives him a clean sweep over Harry.

He probably didn't want to go too drastic on a tournament he will automatically (if reluctantly) get a pass from from the media due to his late arrival.

Evolution not revolution... We've now seen the last of Lampard I think in competitive matches. There's a lot more to go over the next two years prior to hopefully qualifying for Brazil. I have a sneaking suspicion that the real Hodgson will emerge, where reputation off the pitch is not as important to proven ability on it.

This was after all the man who signed Konchesky for the RS... Damn, shot my argument down!

Ian Bennett
630   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:44:32

Report abuse

Henderson is a lucky boy. I can think of a shed load who would be ahead of him injury permitting, whilst others are far better than him.

Lampard, Barry, carrick, scholes, Wilshire, Rodwell, Osman, mark davies, huddlestone, Gardner, cattermole. John ebbrell should feel a bit upset he was overlooked in comparison to this no mark.

Matt Traynor
633   Posted 31/05/2012 at 21:00:54

Report abuse

I'd even go as far to venture Ian Bennett is better than him.
Jeremy Benson
634   Posted 31/05/2012 at 21:03:49

Report abuse

Matt, I'm actually a fan of hodgson. I think he's a decent choice, has more international experience than most, and is shrew enough to be able to play to englands strengths and also command respect. More telling, I rejoiced when the RS got rid.

Then you went and blew it and mentioned konchesky. He obviously does overly-like players he has managed in the past...

I guess we can expect more liverpool players in the first team.

Dave Wilson
636   Posted 31/05/2012 at 20:33:03

Report abuse

Michael

read the thread, the guy asked be to back up something he seems to think I said.

How could I ? why would I ?

He seemed to think My "silence" actually proved his point.

On more than one occasion challenged me to PROVE something I hadnt said, was true . . I eventually responded by merely asking him to prove it wasnt..

Ian Bennett
637   Posted 31/05/2012 at 21:05:35

Report abuse

Matthew you're very kind, I would throw in cleverly, noble, try for arteta as a couple of others.

The u21 squad on wiki is woeful. Apart from Kelly and chamberlain, the squad has nothing which is a big worry.

John Daley
639   Posted 31/05/2012 at 21:13:49

Report abuse

"Final request ; Give some clear facts to back up your claim that none of the big boys has ever tried to sign Ossie.."


He's still here.

Eugene Ruane
644   Posted 31/05/2012 at 21:35:41

Report abuse

Love Dave and Lee to get into one.

Lee: "I don't need proof".

Dave: "Prove you DON'T need proof!"

Lee: "But I don't NEED proof!"

Dave: "Well PROVE you don't then!"

Lee: "Eh?"

Dave: "What?"


Andy Crooks
662   Posted 01/06/2012 at 00:11:30

Report abuse

This has been a really good thread with some excellent contributions. I think that Leon is an excellent Evertonian with many good qualities. I don't think anyone is going to offer £6 million for him, nor do I think loyalty comes into it. If for some mad reason someone were to offer him £100k a week he'd jump at it and he'd be mad not to.

Fans expect players to think like fans and they just don't.

Dave Wilson
684   Posted 01/06/2012 at 09:48:31

Report abuse

On the contrary Lee . . You DO need proof

It`s POSSIBLE that Moyes knew of Burleys admiration and desire to sign Ossie . without Burley actually telling him.

Its POSSIBLE that when Burley said he would "do all he can to keep Leon". He actually MEANT, he`d do all that he can to keep him . .without actually making an inquiry (sorry bid) for him.

Its POSSIBLE Paul Jewel lied.

Its POSSIBLE that a club would make a loanee their player of the year without asking if they could make the move Permanent.

Its POSSIBLE that in an invironment where discrete inquiries are mad about players every day of the week, every week of the year, that Ossie was one of the few exceptions . .for ten years.

Its POSSIBLE that although people like Cole, Wiltshire, Holloway wax lyrical about Ossie . nobody actually wants him .

Eugene has been around the block Mate. NOTHING gets past him and as he says "we`ve seen no real proof" Then we aint

Your common sense approach cuts no ice there mate. You need Proof ! Irrefutable, incontravertable proof . .got none ? aaaand thats it for you

Perhaps you could get Davey Moyes, Paul Jewel and George Burley to post in and substantiate your claim.

But if you do that, your also going to have to prove they are not lying

Eugene Ruane
717   Posted 01/06/2012 at 12:53:07

Report abuse

Dave (684) - What the hey, I'll bite (the Germans are paying for this and it'll help kill a bit of Friday afternoon)

You say (I'm guessing sarcastically but who the fuck knows) 'Eugene - nothing gets past him'.

On the contrary, plenty gets 'past me'.

I tend to steer clear of financial arguments on TW as numbers baffle and confuse me (really - I bow to just about everyone on anything to do with numbers, profit, loss, shares etc).

And I'm actually in awe of the intelligence of people like Tom Hughes and Colin Fitz because of how much detail and fact (nb: proof!) their post's contain.

I also know if I go at it with Tony J. I'd better consider what I am posting because any weak point or lack of facts will be seized upon.

Truth is there are many posters on TW who impress me and not always people I agree with.

But nothing YOU (or 'mr common sense') are going to post will 'get past me'.

You are imo the classic alehouse/barrack-room lawyer.

"University? Tell you where I went, best university in the world, university of life! - (waves empty glass) - When you're ready Alice!"

I believe you are someone who, if on a desert Island, would argue with your own feet

(nb: and lose!).

You naively believe that to continue an argument to the bitter end means you're 'winning' it, rather than just making yourself look a bigger fool each time.

And on Osman bids/interest/enquiries?

Even if you were 100% spot-on about Osman, your arguments offer NOTHING in the way of proof.

You say..

"What we do know is that Everton want him and have wanted him enough to turn down offers from others throughout the best part of a decade".

At best, staggering exaggeration, at worst, total bullshit.

Easy to sort out though - if you have ACTUAL proof of this, let's see it, if not don't state it as a fucking fact.

You then (showing incredible brass neck) instruct Paul Ferry to..

"Give some clear facts to back up your claim that none of the big boys has ever tried to sign Ossie"

This IS asking to prove a negative and is 'turning the tables' on nobody.

"You say there are no 15-headed babies, but why don't you back up your claim and PROVE there aren't".

Sheer gibberish, as is your (classic alehouse-lawyer) "I made my point" and/or "I got it from the horse's mouth" (followed by..er..nothing).

Seriously, do you ever read any of your posts back?

And by the way, what ARE your 'clear' facts?

Two you mention begin..

"I once saw and heard Paul Jewel tell Chris kamara on Sky..."

And "I also know for a fact that.."

Fact?

WHAT fact?

Whatever you think, any sentence that begins this way, will NEVER "back up what I said 100%" - wishful thinking, wishful thinking, wishful thinking.

Actually, I'll attempt to prove this to you (doesn't hold breath)

Seriously, relax for a minute..........................right, now try and imagine yourself as the defendant in a bank robbery trial and you are TOTALLY innocent of the charges.

Ok?

Now imagine if those appearing for the prosecution (nb: they're the ones trying to put you in jail!) when asked for their evidence, told the jury..

"I once heard him say..." or "I know for a fact he.."

Now tell me I'm wrong - but I think you would expect/hope the word 'OBJECTION!' to be shouted long and loud by your brief.

Well (like a few others) I'm shouting it on YOUR (lack of) 'evidence'.

Yes it's absolutely fine to offer no evidence/proof, if all you're saying is "I love Ossie", but to insist teams HAVE bid for him (for the best part of a decade) and then offer fuck-all proof is just plain fucking..dumb.

Dave Wilson
730   Posted 01/06/2012 at 14:30:14

Report abuse

Eugene

It's about people having no clue whether your posts a true or not, but simply disagreeing for the sake of it. It's about people demanding you prove what you say ? no counter argument, mind... just an insistence on taking truth to the n-th degree. If I say I was told something, that is to let people know how I know ? not to prove it to you.

Let's go back to your courtroom: Is the jury asked to take truth to the n-th degree? No, of course not. They are asked to accept evidence that they consider to be beyond reasonable doubt.

So come on Eugene, let's hear your truth ? I assure you I won't be back to ask you to prove it.

Do you consider the club nominating Ossie as Player of the Season on his first loan spell as evidence that they wanted him beyond reasonable doubt?

And when George Burly said he would do what ever he could to keep him. is that also evidence beyond reasonable doubt?

And given these incidents took place approx 7 to 9 years ago, do you accept that as proof that this interest in Ossie covers the best part of a decade?

This is my last word on it. I will not contest your call either way.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
732   Posted 01/06/2012 at 14:58:38

Report abuse

What a wonderful word picture Eugene creates. And he nails the issue here far better than I ever could.

The problem for you, Dave, is that belief becomes your fact and you state it as such... when, at the end of day, it's nothing more than a perception, as conveyed in these three questions you pose:

Do you consider the club nominating Ossie as Player of the Season on his first loan spell as evidence that they wanted him beyond reasonable doubt?

It was approeciation from the fans, as I recall. Everton made it very clear Ossie was not for sale; the loan ended as is the normal course of events. No indication an offer was ever made.

And when George Burly said he would do what ever he could to keep him. Is that also evidence beyond reasonable doubt?

The Burly quote, as you convieniently ignored earlier, came soon after the start of Ossie's Derby loan, and was made good in the form of at least two loan extensions (Ossie was on month-to-month with 24-hr recall). While Burly may have wanted to make it permanent, it does not mean an offer was made for him. There is no indication an offer was ever made for him.

And given these incidents took place approx 7 to 9 years ago, do you accept that as proof that this interest in Ossie covers the best part of a decade?

They occurred in what is now the dim and distant past! Is that all you've got for your 'decade' of fictitious offers being turned down? Give up now, Dave, please!

Find a way of not making bold statements that can be thrown back at you and we wouldn't have to go down this path so often.

Eugene Ruane
740   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:04:25

Report abuse

Dave (730) . you ask me what I think Osman getting player of the season meant?

That he won player of the season (probably played alright like).

Next.

And what about what George Burley said?

I've no idea for sure, but I'll guess George thought Osman was ok.

And.........what?

As I suggest, proof of fuck-all other than Osman played ok for two bum teams (nb: absolutely, definitely not proof beyond a reasonable doubt of ANYTHING to do with bids for him)

So, on the strength of piss-weak nonesense like this, you confidentally ask..

"Is the jury asked to take truth to the enth degree ? no of course not. They are ask to accept evidence that they consider to be beyond resonable doubt"

'ENTH DEGREE!!?'

Hil-ARIOUS!

Here is what you have presented as 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

"I got it straight from the horse's mouth' (nb: this statement followed by FUCK-ALL explanation).

Then we had..

"Everton want him and have wanted him enough to turn down offers from others throughout the best part of a decade"

And the proof that this is beyond a reasonable doubt?

Er..Coz you says so.

More?

Try..

"I once saw and heard Paul Jewell tell Chris Kamara on Sky that he had twice approached Everton with a view to purchasing Ossie".

Or..

"I also know for a fact that George Burley tried to make his loan spell at Derby County permanent".

Ffs, do you REALLY think I'm going to think - "Wow..DAVE knows it for a FACT, good enough for me!"

And on it goes..

"Now I don't know the fees offered (probably not a lot and evidently not enough) but I do know that my statement about other clubs being interested in Ossie was indeed fact".

Incredible, you know it AGAIN for 'a fact' (staggered you don't know the fees though, slipped up there!)

And on..

"Ossie has had several opportunities to move, become a bigger fish in a smaller pond"

And so on and so on and so on.

It's ALL 'true', it's from 'the horse's mouth', you know it all for 'a fact', and consequently, it's..beyond a reasonable doubt.

Shit, if only you had some evidence!

(places black hanky on head)

Eugene Ruane
742   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:06:17

Report abuse

All that said, it's 5.08pm here in Hamburg.

Off to the Nox bar - thanks for making the afternoon go quicker!

Dave Wilson
743   Posted 01/06/2012 at 15:44:55

Report abuse

Challenge Michael

Make this the next toffeweb poll this

1) Do you think this ; (Print ) constitutes evidence BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that Carlisle did indeed enquire about Ossie`s availability?

2) Do you think George Burleys statement (print ) constitutes Evidence BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT That he inqired about Ossies availability?

Or quite simply- because you have a very knowlegable membership - Do you think there is any reasonable doubt that Everton have had inquires form other football clubs about Osman`s availability throughout the past decade?


I`ll accept your members verdict. Will you?

Michael Kenrick
744   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:12:20

Report abuse

Trouble is, Dave, the game is not played by your rules. You've spouted your usual shite and been found out... AGAIN!

There is no indication that any offers were ever made for Ossie by anyone over the past decade. You THINK there might have been... But there is no record, suggestion, story, article, or anything you can come up with that there were.

How many times is that now you've done your usual and said you were out... only to return again for more punishment?

Dave Wilson
745   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:18:17

Report abuse

Punishment, Michael, from you and your tag partner? You`ve proved nothing (ironically).
Paul David
746   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:14:10

Report abuse

I don't think turning down offers (if there was any) from lower league clubs shows loyalty and I doubt any of the top 4 have ever been interested in Osman either.

A clever player with ability and quick feet but for me too inconsistent.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
747   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:25:19

Report abuse

There you go again: saying "prove the negative".

Dave, read my lips: IT CAN'T BE DONE.

But what can be done is to look back over the records of such things over the years of the 'decade' to which you have referred.

Nothing, zilch, nada.

No record of any offers made for one Leon Osman.

I think you should stop now.

Steve Brown
748   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:40:32

Report abuse

Easily the most boring, navel-gazing thread thread ever. Can the three of you just go the pub ffs?
Jimmy Kelly
749   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:30:00

Report abuse

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/tag/leon-osman/
http://eurorivals.net/transfer-rumours/leon-osman-to-palermo.html
http://www.bluekipper.com/players/squad/49-leon_osman.html

Now I know it isn't the 'proof' that you might want Michael and Eugene, but 2 minutes searching just brought these up. I would say that the pair of you have just made yourselves look pretty stupid with your responses to Dave.

I don't expect you to admit it, and no doubt you'll come back with something that you think is really intelligent and cutting but for me, you're wrong.

Lee Courtliff
751   Posted 01/06/2012 at 16:51:09

Report abuse

This has definitely got out of hand.

I was stating that I rate Ossie(centrally not as a winger) and that he didn't cost us a penny in transfers.

I STILL refuse to believe that nobody has bid (or enquired Eugene) after all this time.

I doubt there is a player in world football who has played at one club for so long and not atrracted the interest of another manager. As Dave Wilson said, every day managers and agents are chatting to each other about potential moves. Every player must be discussed at one point. Every window there are countless transfers and deals that didn't quite come off.

In this context I don't think proof is needed. Just common sense. Surely that sounds reasonable??

There is no need to get into a slanging match about it.

Paul David
754   Posted 01/06/2012 at 17:42:51

Report abuse

Lee, if that is true, it means Moyes is also knocking back advances over Anichebe.
Lee Courtliff
756   Posted 01/06/2012 at 18:06:11

Report abuse

Well apparantly Hull City tried to sign Vic a couple of years ago.

Sadly Moyes turned it down. I think it was a loan offer. That would have been good enough for me. Anything to get rid of the mard arse.

Peter Laing
762   Posted 01/06/2012 at 18:41:10

Report abuse

Dave Wilson, showing a little bit of humility isnt a weakness, whenenever I read one of your posts you remind me of a song by Mac Davis which goes....

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
when you're perfect in every way.
I can't wait to look in the mirror
cause I get better loking each day.
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
but I'm doing the best that I can.
I used to have a girlfriend
but she just couldn't compete
with all of these love starved women
who keep clamoring at my feet.
Well I prob'ly could find me another
but I guess they're all in awe of me.
Who cares, I never get lonesome
cause I treasure my own company.
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
when you're perfect in every way,
I can't wait to look in the mirror
cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
but I'm doing the best that I can.
I guess you could say I'm a loner,
a cowboy outlaw tough and proud.
I could have lots of friends if I want to
but then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd.
Some folks say that I'm egotistical.
Hell, I don't even know what that means.
I guess it has something to do with the way that I
fill out my skin tight blue jeans.
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
when you're perfect in every way,
I can't wait to look in the mirror
cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man.
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
but I'm doing the best that I can.
We're doing the best that we can

Michael Kenrick
765   Posted 01/06/2012 at 19:26:29

Report abuse

Jimmy:

#1: "Norwich in laughable Osman bid" ? no source given; no comment necessary!

#2: Osman to Palermo... that's the one that comes closest, and it does ring a bell now. No mention of an offer though, and it honestly looks like one of the many made-up ones that has no legs. If you want to believe that qualifies as one of Dave's "offers from others throughout the best part of a decade", then so be it. I don't.

#3: "Derby tried to buy him" ? That's not what the records suggest, and there was never a bid or an offer because he was never for sale. Burley wanted to keep him for as long as he could. Osman was just into a one-month loan when that was said, the loan was extended one month... then another month... to the end of the season. And Burley indeed kept him for as long as he could.

"Everton wanted him enough to turn down offers from others throughout the best part of a decade." ? True statement? No, I don't think so. But how about these alternatives:

"Everton wanted him enough that it discouraged offers from other clubs throughout the best part of a decade." ? Yes, I would believe that.

"Everton wanted him enough that other clubs knew it was pointless even making offers throughout the best part of a decade." ? Yes, I would believe that.

However, I don't think any of these are really close to the truth, which I would say is simply "Everton have been Osman's club throughout the best part of a decade." ? That's actually all you need to say if the question is about loyalty.

No need to make shit up about non-existent offers, and then argue the toss until we're all blue in the face.

Lyndon Lloyd
782   Posted 01/06/2012 at 20:59:02

Report abuse

Jaysus! When does the football start again?

Eugene Ruane
787   Posted 01/06/2012 at 21:18:09

Report abuse

135 posts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OExykL5QnXY

Phil Bellis
788   Posted 01/06/2012 at 21:18:39

Report abuse

Peter Laing
I'd not heard that song for years but last night, in a downtown bar, an arl fella sang it on Karaoke (yea, I know, but I WAS between trains) amidst the rappers, screechers and "Feeeeel Like a Nuuuun,", "Yo-ohhhhhh- Your Socks is On Fiyuhhhh" crap

Great stuff

Now, as for this argument/discussion/verbal equivalent of an out of body experience, Mr Wilson's involvement duly noted...

I have never seen a baby pigeon, but...

David Chait
790   Posted 01/06/2012 at 21:28:50

Report abuse

Haha Lyndon.. I must say that is exactly what I was thinking.. I have never except in other debates between Dave and Eugene seen so much effort given to a topic where really... "who gives a shit"!
Steve Smith
795   Posted 01/06/2012 at 21:43:48

Report abuse

Err...well I know for a fact that Forest never made a bid for him because Moysie said so, to Derby County...who wanted him, but, he wasn't for sale, so they never bid for him, but, would of been informed if the situation changed....which it didn't.
http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10270~538501,00.html
Dave Wilson
827   Posted 02/06/2012 at 06:40:43

Report abuse

Lyndon

Lets be honest here. This isnt about Osman. Regular readers will be aware of the Editors persistant and concerted efforts to prove me a "liar".
Todays accusations that my "cliams are false", and his talk of my "current and past economy with the truth" are merely the latest of several bizzarre attempt to prove me a liar.

Its not about Eugene Ruane either, but just as he did #644 he either wiillingly or inadvertantly always seems to enter the fray.

Michael`s claims that there have been no rumours about Ossies moving were dismantled when the name Palermo was mentioned and his belief that two clubs could come to an understanding with Everton without an initial inquiry being made, is frankly preposterous. I cant do anything about him not believing me when I say I was told by Osman himself that Carlsile were interested, but thats one of the things that prompted my initial post.

I will enter no more pissing matches with Michael. He will never prove me a liar. Not today, not ever,

I take your point though Lyndon, Your post stopped my intended response dead in its tracks, these squabbles must be brain numbing for other members (who gives a shit indeed)

My appologies

Eugene Ruane
844   Posted 02/06/2012 at 10:31:51

Report abuse

Dave says..

"Its not about Eugene Ruane either, but just as he did #644 he either wiillingly or inadvertantly always seems to enter the fray"

A few months ago (six?) I made a decision NOT to get involved directly with Dave Wilson, as I came to realise facts are of no relevance when dealing with an alehouse lawyer.

So I stopped directly debating anything with him (nb: so even the statement above is bullshit)

Yesterday, due to boredom in work, and the sheer nonsense of his posts, I got involved.

It won"t happen again.

Paul Johnson
846   Posted 02/06/2012 at 10:59:59

Report abuse

Don't give up guys surely this is one of the things that makes the game so great and this site in particular excellent.
It's all about opinions and freedom of speech and at the end of the day people have the right not to read.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb

About these ads

Recent News

Recent Articles

Talking Points, Messages & The Game

Everton in the Community

About these ads