Yer, watched some lolights on the box. Very ordinary performance, much like the Cahill of the last couple of seasons, offering very little in terms of football but the usual petulant fouls.

Thanks Mike, I'm sure he'll get up to his old standard which, while no longer good enough for the Prem should be more than a match for MLS defenders. I wish him the best of luck.

From what I saw, the NYRB's are absolute crap!. Timmy is struggling for fitness but played in a midfield 2 alongside ex-Spur Taino (sp) and wasn't effective on the game at all.

Watched the game. Poor Tim. Not in game shape and his 1st game was in Houston, Texas in August!! If you've never been there, it's not just hot as fuck, it's set on a Gulf channel and used to be all swamps. The humidity is a bitch.

Welcome to soccer in the summer, Tim. Expect you to pick it up as we head towards the Fall. And look at the bright side. The, far and away, best player in MLS is your teammate.

Went to the game last night - extremely disappointed with the New York Red Bulls who were poor throughout. As for Tim, well, didn't really get up to much, Houston were very dominant in midfield. I noted at one stage that Tim had a hissy-fit and threw his arms up in frustration at the poor quality of service around him - bet he's missing Fellaini et al already!

Good servant to our great club, but in America now and will be expectred to perform. Will do as he is told. Missus is giving me grief now for my grammar, cheers.

Sounds far too much like exactly how he was playing for us since that fateful Asian Cup.

Love him for what he did for Everton before that but he has never been the same since. His departure was long overdue. Moyes was a fool to persevere with him and allow that decision to dominate the structure and play of the team.

Peter - "Moyes was a fool to persevere with him and allow that decision to dominate the structure and play of the team".

Haha. A story about an ex-player in a minor league 1,000s of miles away and you worked an anti-Moyes dig into it. Well done.

Wait, Kenrick, that was you. The post was so peterbarryesque. That's what I get for assuming. Apologies. (But still Haha and well done).

Tim will come good in MLS. Houston's playing very well right now; particularly at home. And a new player to the league, even in top condition, might've wilted his first game being in the oven Houston is this time of year. An oven where the air is like a giant, wet, wool blanket at that.

Anyway, since you brought Moyes into it. Tim's biggest adjustment, in fact, will be going down from Moyes to Backe, who's awful.

I think Cahill has been available for some time to be fair to Moyes.

It's a just a matter of who would pay an acceptable fee / take on the contract verus the value that we would get from him in a squad with no fresh faces.

One thing I've noticed, Jimmy lad, is you're always projecting your personal perspective forward into these rock-solid predictions: "Tim will come good in MLS." — you don't know that. No-one can predict how well or how badly he will perform. But stick with it: you're probably making a number of bookies very happy. Meanwhile, my critique is founded on recent empirical data... months of it.

And here's another great set-up you've inadvertently created: say Timmy does come good in MLS, under Backe "who's awful," (sez you)... how will that reflect on the manager who had him performing at such an abysmal level for the past 18 months, eh?

Ian: "he's been available for some time" — do you mean before the transfer window opened? How does that work then?

Cahill, although my favorite player of the team the past 10 years, has been pretty bad the past couple seasons culminating in a one goal performance and subsequent transfer. To be fair he's always put in an honest shift (but who wouldn't for Christ sake; he's playing for Everton!!)

The problem lies with Moyes and his "hunch" managing. Managers of any sport who select teams from their heart or gut versus their mind and the statistics that they have available, usually don't manage very long. Luckily for Moyes, there is a back room handshake that must've taken place where he has traded job security and 60k a week to shut up and keep the team in the Premiership without exposing Kenwright and his cronies who are bilking the club rotten. Other managers who stick with old horses are usually shown the door pronto.

I hate to say this but athletes are like numbers. They give you a certain amount of output that you can "kind of" rely on. As soon as the manager strays from this model and judges players based on his gut, then you have a manager who's out of a job. The teams that move players along at the right time are the one's who always seem to be at the top of the table. This is a business and it's a business about winning, not keeping your buddies around.

like I said, I LOVE Tim Cahill and what he's done for this team. But... if I were the manager, he'd only see about 10 minutes of game time each week as I'd continue to find younger, better alternatives to fix our scoring woes.

Who the fuck watches MLS??? Get a life!!!

Let's try this again - it didn't take last post....

One thing James F said that is worth reiterating:

It's hotter than Hell in Houston this time of year.

Tim's body needs time to acclimate to the new climate. It is incredibly difficult to play any sporting event in Houston this time of year. It's sooo hot it's unbearable.

My wife and I are in Orlando currently. We always chuckle at the pasty-white Brits who come over to Mickey Land. They are happy as pigs in shit - you can see it on their faces plain as day. But they absolutely molt and sweat their asses off in the 98 degree / 100% humidity heat.

Tim's been living in an area where the women volleyball players need long sleeves to stay warm playing. Coming from that and being dropped into the depths of Hell (weather wise) has a huge effect on performance.

He'll come good in this inferior MLS when it cools off. Give him some time.

It really is difficult even if you're used to the weather. Give the man some time.

Not making bold prognostications, just live in this heat and making an observation...

Cruel but accurate, John Campbell. I was obligated to go and watch an MLS game recently with a client. Ah gawd, it was painful. But I was assured the home club sat proudly at 20th in the world in terms of average home attendance at each game – and that is while curtaining off the upper tiers of their home stadium!

The sad thing is they get their biggest crowds when the likes of Chelsea or Barcelona come to town, and they charge $90+ a ticket for so-called "Exhibition" games. As if these mega-clubs need more income, but that must be the carrot that brings them back time and again... That's around $6M per game!!! Say it costs $1M to put the game on... where is all that money going?

Meanwhile, when Everton come to town:

2011: Philadelphia Union, 18,582; DC United, 12,789
2009: River Plate, 15,800; MLS All-Stars, 20,124
2008: Chicago Fire, 9,125; Colorado Rapids, 10,278
2007: Real Salt Lake, 12,221
2006: Columbus Crew, 10,259; Club América, 11,467
2004: Pachuca, 8,346; Club América 16,434

Sorry, I kinda got off topic there, but the dynamics of 'soccer' in the US are very different than the UK in so many ways... And it's incredible how few people you meet have heard of Everton, even when they know what the Premier League is and and can name all the Usual Suspects.

Chris (804), is this post a 'hunch' as it sure isn't based on any facts.

I've read your post with absolute disbelief, just couple of questions. Have you been reading about EFC or watching us in the last 10 years?

Can you prove that Moyes has had a 'backroom handshake' or is this conjecture?

Where is the evidence that Moyes only 'picks his buddies'?

Do you have any proof that in the modern game 'managers of any sport select teams from their heart or gut versus their mind and the statistics ?

The EPL is big business I doubt very much any manager in this league past or present ignores statistical data. It is common knowledge that Moyes is well known for applying a scientific and statistical approach to training and also uses a rigorous system when aquiring new players.

The comment that about Moyes's salary is a very low and snidey comment. The man genuinely acts with dignity and honesty, and his salary is certainly not unique amoungst EPL managers.

So what if you like Cahill, lots of us on here do too. We could all see he has been flagging the last couple of seasons, but that hasnt been helped by the rest of the teams inability to supply decent crosses or passes in the last third, basically making him inaffective.

Have you looked at the squad depth? It's the smallest in the EPL, it's literally wafer-thin. After the 1st team, all we've had are loan players and some kids. Basically, the team has been picking itself for the last couple of seasons. I'm sure if we had the resources 'Moyes's buddies' Neville and Cahill would have been nowhere near the 1st team, and we would never have heard of the likes of Drenthe or the Strac.

I'm asking these questions because it appears you have no knowledge of our club or how it works.

Colin,

Accusing someone of not knowing Everton... would be more credible if EVERYTHING that person said was not accurate.

I could answer every single question you've posed... But I'd prefer it if you thought about it yourself.

Mick Me Boy (803) - " One thing I've noticed, Jimmy lad, is you're always projecting your personal perspective forward into these rock-solid predictions".

Why would one of the moderators of a discussion board see a poster's perspective as something contrary to the entire point of discussion. Why post at all unless it's from some perspective.

So here. I follow MLS, a minor league. Red Bull is my team in that minor league. 32-year-old Tim will do well in a league unquestionably less demanding then the EPL. And Backe? He's shit.

As for placing bets, a perspective:
Weekend evening + wine cooler fizzies = What result? "100 down on Kenrick's post at 803" cries Flynn. "No odds Jimmy lad" sneers my bookie, slamming the window shut. Pissed me off, but appreciate his perspective.

Red Bulls were outplayed, not much to blame Timmy for. They couldn't adapt to the pace of Houston's front 3, and their right back makes Hibbo look world-class. It also doesn't help the attack at all when Henry has to come all the way back to the half-way line to get the ball. Movement and one-touch passing all very poor from Red Bulls. Stopped watching at half-time, expecting a massacre for the next 45. Pleased for Timmy that it did not get worse.

I agree with some of the above comments re Moyes and his perseverance with his old favourites, but the mention of Neville is misleading as he has produced numerous captains displays and game changing incidents since he came to our club.

One manager's pet who does deserve question is Hibbert, who Moyes seems to be sentimental about as he is the only surviving player from his first game in charge. NO other top six PL club would have a player of such limited ability in their ranks for anywhere near ten years, and the only qualities he possesses are hard work and an uncanny knack of not being noticed.

The players around him have to work twice as hard covering his back and, like John Bailey, he is tolerated by the fans because he is a local lad. This puts a lot of our supporters on par with the manager. Sentimentality doesn't win trophies as John Moores proved by sacking a very capable and promising manager in the back of a taxi.

Jimbo, try again. We'll take perspective all day... it's your sappy predictions that lack rigour. You don't know... nobody knows. Except the bookies.

JF & MK...aka redrag / bull. Predictions are just opinions with a bit more self-belief behind them. I thought we were in favour of (non-inappropriate) opinions?

I was hoping his performances were just a blip, but alas, no. Was probalby the right time to move him on, save his wages and get some transfer fee to boot. He will come good though, because he is still far too good for a Sunday pub league in the good old US of A.

Just read that Man Utd have signed a $500m shirt deal with Cheverolet? Why do we bother? Does anyone at the club bother to get a US deal done? We have strong links with US football and we are nowhere near pulling any sort of deal off that may make us a few quid.

Christ, if Man Utd took Landon on a bit of a loan ... ?

Mark, where do you live - that's old news!

Their current deal with Aon still has 2 years to run, at £20m a year. The new 7 year £30m per year deal being announced now is because they want to see the IPO in New York go well.

Also bear in mind they get £4m a year of DHL to sponsor their training kit - more than we (and a few others) get for our shirts!

Ian 799, I have to disagree with you there. There was a supposed bid from QPR last Jan as well as last summer to sign Cahill (£3m I believe), which Everton rejected.

Whether Cahill would have gone there is another question admittedly but I think, given his nature, had the club told him he was no longer needed, he would have gone and not caused trouble. Either way, the club could have sold him earlier than this summer but didn't.

Personally I hope he enjoys some success in the MLS but I have my doubts. He was a player of limited ability to begin with when it comes to things like dribbling, passing, shooting, creativity, pace etc, so am not sure why people think he'd be head and shoulders above MLS players (technically anyway). His main skill was ghosting in late into the box and getting on the end of headers – which he seemed to have lost in 2010.

The heat may have made a difference in the Houston game but unless he improves significantly on the form he showed in the last 18 months, NYRB will be wondering why they're paying him $3.5m a year... I think Everton got a great deal with a £1m transfer fee and saving on £50k a week wages for another 2 years, for a player who has not provided much on the pitch for a very long time.

Should have sold earlier but hindisght is always 20/20.

Denis #851

Whatever status Cahill had at Everton took him several seasons to create - it took you about 5 minutes to fuck him off as some has been. You meanie.

Just in terms of Cahill’s style and personality, with no real comment on his waning effectiveness, Cahill is going to look pretty shoddy playing alongside Henry!!

He was always energy, commitment, impact kinda player, and when playing in mid wouldn't really affect the play that much but pop up with a goal, a bit like David Platt use to. Another player who didn’t do too much in mid other than give it simple and get forward. Off the striker though, of his "type" he was the best in the league, nasty, aggressive, a complete pest and at his peak 1 in 3 man. He personified Moyes Everton.

Problem for Cahill is that in the heat, for example, playing with that "fizz", some of which he has lost anyway, is going to be very difficult. And if Cahill isn't "at it" he, let’s be honest, contributes very, very little. So there is a possibility a fan watching the MLS is going to think what the big deal is.

Moyes has had very close relationships with some of the players who have been here and he backed Cahill to the hilt in public, and on the pitch, right till the end. Maybe, and it’s only a suggestion as I'm unsure myself, Cahill was deserving of that loyalty, even though it tested our patience. He severely tested mine second half of the semi-final for example.

But after years of putting up with piss takers, fakers and chancers, for me, Cahill was a breath of fresh air. Moyes. That’s one of the things that I think it’s possible we can all agree on about Moyes, he rehabilitated the attitude of the clubs dressing room in terms of what it was to play for Everton, restoring professionalism, respect for the club and each other. Now, you do not fuck around if you play for Everton. If you do, you are gone. We did, after all, have an alcoholic in charge in the late 90's.

Possibly there was a bit of "you've done it for me, I will back you" about it. A bit like Ferguson with Solskjaer who, even though there was very little chance of him ever coming back anywhere near what he was, if at all, after the knee trouble, Ferguson stuck by him and gave him as long as he needed. Fletcher knows he has a position at the club if he is screwed.

Cahill bought into that kind of club loyalty. Even at the beginning of the season just gone, Cahill for me not fit as the niggles stacked up a classic burn out sign, (Torres, Owen) played lone striker, a position that especially having lost that x factor that made him so dangerous did him no favours, and just got on with it. It was a big season for Cahill as he must have known people were questioning him, he needed to come back strong, but he sacrificed himself for the team ethic to his own detriment. We also, due to squad size, we didn't have the luxury of giving him less football and using him less sparingly as, say, Scholes has been able to start maybe 20-25 league games a season and then, when you get him, you get the best of him.

If there were no budget issues, I think Moyes would have kept him and used him in this kind of reduced capacity, using him when sharp and fit as its clear he needs less football not more, keeping him for his influence around the club, his attitude as a standard bearer for self-discipline, respect and professionalism, as well as being, by all accounts fantastic in the dressing room.

You don't get that from many lads, especially today. I think it’s one of the reasons Moyes stuck by him till the end, just the kind of fella he is and what he did, for Moyes and Everton.

Fair do's to him.

The Man Utd deal is £50m per season, not £30m.

Ciarán McGlone (819) Seriously!

Read Chris's post again, when I read it I thought it was a bloody troll from the dark side. Michael and Lyndon are quite right to pull people up who accuse others of being a red, and I didn't want to incur their ire, but come on – it reads like he hasn't got a clue about us. That's one of the reasons I asked a few questions.

This is what we ALL know about our manager. Moyes has never ever said anything about 'gut feeling' or having a 'hunch'; if anything he is notoriously cautious with players and after each game all of them have their stats analysed using the Pro-Zone system. This is common knowledge amongst us all – you can't deny that.

I wasn't defending Moyes nor Cahill (who is one of my own favourite players) but, in truth, I just really felt that there was something a bit nasty and wrong with that post. Maybe it's me – but read it again, see what you think as I think it's really odd!

Colin (# 932), first off: thanks for restraining from overstepping the line... although you come close enough in terms of intent: "it appears you have no knowledge of our club or how it works" — what a throughly obnoxious statement to make to another Evertonian! I'm tempted to ban you outright for that one... but, moving ion...

There's an intrinsic dichotomy in being an Evertonian: we all follow the same team... but that does NOT mean we all think the same way about them. Or is that what you really want? There do seem to be a number of people on here in the Absolutist camp that requires this uniformity of thought.

Here's the thing, though: part of the unintended function of this website is to expose you to a wider diversity of views about Everton; we have so many different viewpoints on any given topic, the neat and comfortable idea that we are all born from the same loins and think the same way is completely laughable.

I've re-read Chris Kelly's message (#104) and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it — certainly nothing 'nasty' as you claim. In my book, it's not 'nasty' to wonder what really drives Moyes's selection decisions... Hell, I find myself doing it every game I watch! It's not 'nasty' to provide conjecture about the process, based on about as much information as anyone else has to go on. Just because you may disagree with the analysis does not make it 'nasty'.

Many have reasonably puzzled over Moyes's decision to persist with a player whom plenty could see was unfit / out-of-form / 'going though a challenging spell' / over-the-hill / past it [delete as appropriate] these past 18 months.

If, as you seem to claim, Moyes relies on Pro-Zone, what the hell were the stats indicating about Tiger Tim and his lost bite over this period? Do you seriously believe his continual selection was justified by performance stats, independent of 'hunch' or 'gut feeling'?

Bobby Thomas does a good job of providing an alternative conjecture about why Moyes kept selecting him; I would suggest you try to read all different views; argue against the ones you disagree with using points of your own that don't include ad hominen belittling crap like "it appears you have no knowledge of our club or how it works" — Thanks!

Thanks Michael and Ciaran for the support - to be labelled a "troll from the dark side" is laughable and Colin, you clearly shouldn't spend your time chasing moles from the red side. I'm sure you have better things to do with your time.

Moving on and staying above the fray – for years I've been bothered by Moyes's favoritism – as have most fans, I'm sure (or at least hoping).

Most great managers would've tried something new and young and exciting and not continuously tried the same thing time and time again with the same result. it is a sign of a weak and conservative manager. Cahill at least used to score huge goals, Osman, Hibbert and to some degree Neville belong in a lower division.

I'm surprised that you'd be okay with your beloved Everton being run like a children's team with a father picking his four sons every match while the other kids' development gets stunted.

And to me, as I (and many others) have been saying for years, there is something really fishy going on at the top level at EFC. No AGMs and no transparency should be very alarming to everyone. Too much BS to list here and not the right thread but I'm again surprised that you are okay with how your beloved Everton is run from the top-down.

Since you know so much about Everton, maybe you can help me out as to why our club is run so poorly and how we keep exciting young players on the bench or in the reserves while old tired legs continue to get starting places?

In my eyes, nobody should be given an automatic berth. That breeds complacency and a team as skint as we are certainly have no business being complacent.

Please tell me, Colin. If you make a good argument I will applaud it..., but I'm not so sure it's possible.

Christopher, didn't agree with Colin's assessment of your original post on this thread but I do feel 'favouritism' (which you have used in your latest) isn't the right word and may be doing David Moyes something of a disservice.

I have often questioned the manager's team selection, frustrated by what I perceive as an overly conservative approach, but would never go so far as to suggest that he is just providing 'jobs for the boys'. I think he always selects what he regards as the best team he can muster (barring perhaps saving players for what he considers as a more important game) but sometimes I have trouble understanding how he has arrived at his decision. I don't doubt his integrity (though he is showing an unfortunate - in my opinion - willingness to act as the club's spin doctor - a role for which he has no natural affinity), but I reserve the right to question his judgement.

DM values hard-working and honest players, which definitely helps the club when those players are operating at their peak, but does appear to have a bit of a blind spot when they are off form or in decline. It is a thorny issue because none of us see what the manager and his staff do during training, and it is impossible to replay the games with different players to decide who is right or wrong, so we are left with debating it on TW.

I think your assessment of the other players you mentioned is a bit unfair. Whilst I would agree they all have their deficiencies, I think they can also still do a job for us if used appropriately. The question is have we got better players who are ready to play week in week out, and if not how do we acquire / develop them? (BTW, I am not suggesting we open that debate here and now).

Thanks for the comment Michael, I cannot stand it when people feel the need to insult solely because someone may have the audacity to have a different opinion! As for the original reason for the post, how long are we going to receive updates on Cahill? He is no longer an Everton player, why do we care how well he plays elsewhere?

Thanks, Gareth.

As to the follow-up question, I'm not sure interest in an Everton player cuts off when they leave.

It's much maligned, I know... but "Once A Blue, Always A Blue". I believe that. So (apparently) does Wayne Rooney. (Perhaps he's not the best example... but, if it's a rule, then it's a rule.)

I think that's enough justification for us to retain an interest in the subsequent careers of our ex-players.... even when that mere thought exasperates to the extreme.

Okay, Andy van der Meyde? I honestly don't give a shit where he is or what he is doing now; he, to my mind, is the exception to the rule. There are probably others too. [Hmmm... maybe this would be a good topic for a thread of its own???]

Si,

While I appreciate and respect your opinion, I don't want you to misunderstand my point. I agree, I shouldn't have used the term "favoritism" – it's not very clear how I meant the term to be interpreted. While Tiger Tim seems like a very nice guy, I'm sure, he, Hibbert, Osman, Neville and Moyes don't go for beers after practice.

The problem though is that Moyes plays his "favorite" players, not necessarily his favorite people. The bigger problem is that Moyes was an old guard centre-back and his favorite players aren't always the "best" players. They're the ones who work hardest. The problem is, talent trumps in pro sports. Always has, always will. You can teach a horse to run but they can't all run fast.

Moyes for some reason benches players whose games he doesn't like (usually creative flair players) and continues with older, tired, known quantity type guys who are past it (that's why I mentioned stunted development) because some of our promising youngsters have recently taken a step backwards when they should be developing. We NEED these young guns way more than any of the old guard. They're the future and we need to develop them and lock them into long contracts. Not bench them and shred their confidence.

Regarding my assessment of the other players – maybe I was a bit harsh but you know what? This is a results business and none of these players get results anymore. Maybe they don't belong in the Championship but they certainly shouldn't be considered Everton standard. 5 years ago we were having this same conversation about Osman and Hibbert and the guys are still in the team... STARTING sometimes!!!

Si, the next time Hibbert puts a cross behind the goal or Osman gets muscled off the ball after dribbling for too long or Neville completes an "astonishing" 94% of his lateral or backwards passes, I would like you to remember this post and have a sip of ale for me. Sure it's not they're fault that Moyes keeps picking them but you'd think that after 10 years of professional practices and matches, Moyes would have developed them just a bit.

I don't know what's crazier, Moyes continuously picking these guys or the fact they haven't improved a lick in 10 years+?? Hibbert, while a great defender, has known his offensive shortcomings presumably since he was a teenager and yet he just can't get it together in the offensive half.

Regardless, back to Tim; he should've moved on last year. No question, no debate. Moyes cost us money, points and places by sticking with Tim one year too long. I pray he's learned his lesson but after 13 years (in football years that's like 100) I fear, like all those dud players he keeps playing, Moyes is who he is and can't improve.

And just for the record so I don't sound like a twat, I am glad Moyes got some business done early in the summer for once. That is a positive change that should really help us. Credit where credit is due...

I think that Moyes has developed a terrific sense of loyalty in the dressing room. I appreciate that we don't have world class players who are always in demand, and demand huge things of their club in return. But when you look at the likes of Jagielka and Baines who could look for moves away to more successful clubs with bigger wage bills but don't, it does give me an idea of how settled players are at the club.

Pienaar, for all that went on with his move to Spurs, realised that the grass isn't always greener and made it clear who he wanted to go back to. He showed last season what he can bring to a team and, while I am open to correction, I'm sure plenty of clubs would have been interested in signing him if he had made himself more available. Cahill was another player who, in his prime, could have behaved like a prima donna but didn't.

Still waiting on your analysis, Colin Southern. I won't hold my breath, mate.

Gareth,

I think Tim's performance or otherwise in the MLS will be monitored, particularly by message board fans, as how he performs will make or break a few peoples points on issues they have with the manager I.e.favouritism, youth players and team selections.