Or we could do as Brendan Rodgers seems to be doing at the Red Shite simply buy Swansea's Team piecemeal.

"Liverpool will look to replace centre-back Daniel Agger with Swansea's Ashley Williams, 27, if they sell the Dane to Manchester City. "

Peter, I noticed Rogers' desire to simply turn the shite into Swansea when he said after their first game in Europe that "we won't start playing like Swansea over night but we're heading in the right direction" or words to that effect. I know what he was trying to say, but I think shite fans will want him to aim a little higher than becoming the next Swansea!

I know. If only we had a manager and coaching staff like a team that nurtures young attacking talent. A team like, say, Arsenal.

Manager - Arsene Wenger (ex central defender)
Assistant Manager - Steve Bould (ex central defender)

First Team Coach - Neil Banfield (ex central defender)

First Team Coach - Boro Primorac (ex central defender)

This always comes up, and ultimately I think it's irrelevant. Taking Arsenal as an example again, they were at their most dour and defensive under George Graham, forward. They are at their most exciting under Arsene Wenger, generally failed footballer, but accepted to be a defender/midfielder.

Don't know how you can have a go at our youth set up as they are keeping the club afloat if you ask me.
Even the ones we le go mostly make a fee on.
Last season several former youth players we brought through from kids played in the first team plus Velios and Gueye who we will no doubt make money on even if we don't keep them.
Then you have Barkley to groom and it's the likes of him and Rodwell who have given Billybullshit a reason to be able to sleep at night.

James Vaughan would have been a regular starter if he wasn't so injury prone. He came up around the same time as Anichebe and always looked miles better whenever he was fit. I wish things had turned out better for him at Everton.

well over 10 years in charge and the only players that the manager has brought through and managed to turn into regular starters are Osman & Rooney. So there is a problem there somewhere. For all this bluster about giving young players a platform to play on the reality is somewhat different. Look at Duffy last season, only got a game because two of the centre backs were injured plus Hibbert and Neville. Plays well deserves to stay in the team is dropped for Hibbert as soon as he is fit and is never given another opportunity all season!

The whole point of having youth players is to try and develop them into quality first team players.
Not all young players at EVerton fit that bill and so they are sold or given away.
Only the best of the best can come trough and make it.

I have been critical of Moyes for not trusting in his best young players as much as he does his oldies goldies, like Barkley and Vellios.
Last year they were both doing very well for our first team, and out of nothing Moyes just takes them out of the squad and puts them into reserves.

This is a prime example of why we have so few young players coming trough, I feel like most others do that if a young player comes into the first team and does well then he should be able to stay as long as his form is not bad.

It is not good enough to just rest on your old players, you have to challenge them by handing young players game time while they are in good form.

It gives a young player confidence when he gets to play, and so they can grow on that, but in Barkley and Vellios they were treated badly, and have in my mind dwindled a little because of that.
You need to build confidence on young players, not destroy it.
Even if they are in bad form then they should still be training with the first team squad, while playing for the reserves.
They also need to be urged to do better starting with short sub apperances, until they are showing good form again.

Last year I remember Moyes saying that there would be no automatic spots in the team, only the ones showing the best form would be picked.
Well he lied, because Cahiill was being played while it was crystal clear that he was out of form, but he was a automatic name in the teamsheet just because of past seasons form.

It sounds good when Moyes talks about youngsters but they are not given a fair chance like the older players like Neville who gets to play no matter how poor he is in midfield, that just makes me mad, in truth Barkley and Vellios will never get the chance here that they deserve.
Look at Arsenal, they stick with their youngsters throughthick and thin, we should learn from them how it is done.

Is it just that they're just not good enough? There is only so much coaching you can do. Natural ability needs to be there in the first place for the coaches to work with.

Rodwell, Anichibe and James Vaughan were all given long term deals by the club.

Jose Baxter is clearly not a top division player, pointless reference.

Barkley spent last season developing his game and mentally, physically away from the limelight after a double leg break. He will continue to develop with a reasonable amount of football, and rightly no more, this season. Look at all the football Wenger gave Wiltshire. Hes been fucked. We've been linked with a striker, Owen, a striker who was all pace, sharpness and electricity and was burnt out by 25 by too much football.

Rodwell will do well to be anything other than a bit part player for City this year and will develop with them. And after 2 years of constant injury I wouldnt expect much more.

And how old was Ossie when he went on loan to Derby County?

Its ridiculous to reference Rooney as a norm, he was a complete freak who could walk in and play Prem football no problem at 17 and developed right in the glare of European and international football.

The first 3 have all had significant injury trouble. Rodwell was playing regularly alongside Fellaini in roughly the first half of last season.

Largely nonsense post.

Agree with Bobby above.

Peter (665)
works for Man City with Everton

We've got Alan Irvine involved in the youth set up. I'm sure he will pass on some tips to McAleny, Barkley etc.

I agree with Rory, I thought James Vaughan would be around the senior England team by now if he kept fit. Such a shame.

Isn't Duncan Ferguson part of the coaching staff, particularly on the youth side?

I wasn't having a go over our youth set up, I just think it's a bit of a coincidence that we haven't managed to bring through a winger or striker that plays regular football in 10 years other than Rooney.

The post wasn't to have a go at our youth or even youth coaches, I just found it very surprising that Everton don't have a forward on the coaching staff and that is the reason I believe we haven't brought anybody through.

If we was to bring through the likes of Hallam Hope to train with the first team, who would you expect to train him; Moyes, Round, Weir, none of them would be able to teach a young striker to dribble or shoot or about movement in the box.

We have an excellent youth set up which seems to be pointless if a player gets to train with the first team as they don't seem to improve, Anichebe is a perfect example, with the physique of Drogba the lad had everything needed to play in this league but never improved.

I understand every team has players that don't make it, it just seems that we don't bring through any strikers or wingers that can go on to play for us.

I think the fact that we hope every youth player will be the next Wayne Rooney has made our expectations of them completely unrealistic.
Every Premier League club has youth players that get to an age where they are on the fringes of First Team football but never quite make it. That's the nature of football, it is completely ridiculous to expect any more than say 10% of them to actually make it in the premier league.
I would be interested to read some REAL statistics as I believe we are probably one of the more successful PL teams in terms of producing youth players.

The only reason our youth players get into the squad is because we have so few players. Otherwise we probably wouldn't hear about them.

As said above, the reason why they don't make it is because they aren't good enough. The only youth players to be released by Everton in the last 10 years to make a big name for themselves are.....wait for it....... probably, Baines and Jags.

No-one who we have sold, not wanting away, but sold have gone on to bigger things, not a one.....yes I'm looking at you Radzinski...

For me, the one thing I find a little odd is that in recent years Everton have won or been successful in many youth tournaments. Going by the logic that our youth players are/were better in comparison to other clubs youth players, it got me wondering why we don't have more youngsters coming into our first team.

We seem to regulary have one of the best youth sides at around U14 to U17 level and then they just drop off for some reason. This is not just a one off, we've been really good at these levels over a number of years so I would have expected to get at least 1 player stepping up to the first team every year or two. Just doesn't happen and I find it a bit odd. Maybe home based kids are just not that good on average compared to those from the continent or s.america and the issue is more to do with coahing in the UK in general?

No idea why that is, maybe there's some statistic out there for how many players at youth level on average make it to the top league after the age of 18/19. 1 in 25, in 50, in 100 a year? Not sure if such stats exist anywhere.

Phil, unlike you I have often 'had a go' at our coaching panel and it looks like that will continue. They are incapable of eradicating a players mistakes let alone make improvements.

Any youngster coming through the ranks carries inbuilt weaknesses that experience and coaching should iron out. At Everton those weaknesses forever remain part of their make up.

Take Coleman for example, he carries the same faults as when he first arrived.

Others come to mind but we need go no further than Hibbert who after 10 years cannot consistently cross a good ball. I am convinced that but for 2nd class coaching those same players would be international standard.

On these pages, I have said that for their careers' sake the sooner Rodwell and Barkley should get out from under Moyes and his crap panel of coaches. Moyes and the rest of the mob may be a good youth coaches but only until the lads are feeling their oats.

Lol Dick, absolute classic? Do you ever read what you write?!

With reference to Hibbert firstly, has it crossed your mind perhaps, that crossing in a high speed Premiership game is...just not that easy? (Although Hibbert actually assisted several goals last season, and put in some good crosses). Walcott, as an example, is a winger....yet he can't cross a ball, or seeemingly pass it five yards sometimes. Is this Wenger's fault? Lennon as well has been criticised for his crossing, as have countless other players, who seemingly never get any better. Why can't Glen Johnson defend? why can't Rafael! damn idiot coaches...

In your mind Dick, does every player get better at everything with coaching? do you think that's how football works? Evidently it does, because of one of the most stupid comments I've ever read on here: ' I am convinced that but for 2nd class coaching those same players would be international standard.'

If only football was so easy...we’d all be playing in the Premiership.

Second...I feel that several of our players have developed into fantastic prospects under Moyes. Pienarr, Arteta, Baines, and several defenders, have come in, improved their games, and attracted alot of interest. Is this in spite of good coaching?

Why use every example to have a go at Everton? Under Moyes tenure we’ve improved considerably, and developed several good prospects. We’ve had a fair few youths come through, and most of them haven’t been good enough, as at all clubs, so we’ve sold them on. With respect to our youth football success...we do well, because youth football is far easier, because youth football is not played with premiership level players. I was talking to a friend recently, who saw Yossi last year at an Arsenal reserve game. Despite an array of talented youth players, Yossi completely dominated the match. Why? Because most youth players cannot compete with even half talented Premiership players.
Who has been bringing loads of players through over the last 10 years? And by bringing through, I don’t mean buying them, and developing them for a couple of seasons. Because, I can’t think of many teams, and the gobshite neighbours have managed to bring all of..Martin Kelly through in the last 10 years?

Dick, show me another right back that can "consistently" cross a "goodball", in fact show me a winger that can do it consistently.

"I am convinced that but for 2nd class coaching those same players would be international standard" – What a load of rubbish, if they were able to reach international standard, they would do. No amount of coaching will take away a persons inherent skill. Coaching may help players realise their skill sooner perhaps but it would never be a block on that skill.

You know Dick being a newish father of 2 boys... I have pondered (with the highly remote possibility) that if they have football talent would I send them to the Everton Academy, and I got to the conclusion probably not. Solely because when they hit about 15 to 16 I don't think they are getting the experience required. Maybe the u21 league will resolve it.

I actually thought I might prefer Southampton. Is it me or do tons of lads come out of there! Even Crewe appear to have more successful talent.

The thing is that our boys are always in the forefront and then seem to be overtaken. I hope this is a perception and hard facts would prove me wrong.

Tony ... agree on point 1.... but point 2 is bollocks. Dick tell me if I'm wrong, but all he is saying is that skill alone will only take you so far. The right coaching can take a kid all the way.

David, you either have it or you don't, no amount of coaching for a mediocre player will make him international class, none.

My opinion, as above, if they have it, the coaching will fine tune it, not bring it to the fore.

The quality of Everton's youth players can be measured by how many of them go out on loan to Premier League or Championship teams. So far, there have been none. Most go to 1st or 2nd divisions teams where they usually end up. The likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd do better with their younger players, who do go out on loan to Premier League and Championship teams. That's the standard Everton have to aim for.

Steavey #735, that's slightly missing the point surely? With our paucity of resources, if a player is good enough to go on loan to a Premier League or Championship team, then he's good enough to make the bench. I don't know about you, but I'm not that pleased when I see a bench full of teenagers from the Youth set up. Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U all have far bigger squads than us.

Steavey, we have managed to sell two of them for £40million+ and Richard Dunne had an OK career.

The big clubs loan players to Premiership and Championship clubs because their squads a big enough to enable them to send out 19/20 year olds and not miss them, whereas most of the players that we send out are younger than this so don't appeal to the top division clubs.

If Everton had a Wilshere, Sturridge or Lokaku, we would never be in a position to loan them out at the ages those guys went out.

Matt, beat me to it

A number of questions pondered by the author:

1) Why is it that Everton can have so many young players come through the youth ranks, looking so promising... only to have hardly any first team football?

Ludicrous statement to suggest this is a problem with Everton's set-up. Every team in the Premier League has a youth team. A conveyor belt of 16-, 17-, 18-year-olds, all with the hope one, just one, might turn into a gem. If every Premier League team goes through just 5 youths a year (sells on, releases, etc), that's 100 kids every year, in the Premier League alone, on the scrap heap.

2 & 3) The question has to be asked why haven’t Everton managed to bring through a striker or winger since Rooney and Anichebe? Why is there all the hype around so many young players for Everton only for them to eventually leave or be deemed not good enough when they reach the first team?

We pay particular attention to Everton's kids, because we support Everton, but it's the same at every club. The hype is no different. And look at the 23-man England European Championship squad of 2012 and see where each player learned their trade as a youngster. There is no stand out, superior model. Southampton's youth set up is no better because Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain came through.

4 & 5) Who is going to teach Everton’s young strikers shooting techniques? Who is going to teach our young wingers about crossing and dribbling?

They should have the basics if they've managed to get into Everton, and the youth coaches will then be charged with imrpoving, polishing and getting the best out of them, like at every club. Rooney, arguably the greatest player to come out of England in a generation, had all the raw talent, and didn't seem hindered by our youth set-up.

It is a huge leap from being a promising youngster to being able to play, never mind play well, in the Premier League.

The amount of concentration and physical fitness together with consistency means that many promising youth players are not able to make the grade.

Yep Matt Spot on... hence I actually said I would choose a Southampton.. for me at the age of 16 - 17 .. any kid with talent must be loaned out to League One or preferably Championship clubs to learn the trade in a competitive league.

Sitting on our bench breaking records for appearing so young doesnt do any of them any good.

Tony... I think we actually agree. just coming from a different angle. skill without training is useless and training without skill a waste of time.

It's difficult for young players to get first team action for premier league teams nowadays because the first teams are so strong. Take Garbutt and Duffy for example - both good young players with potential to be solid premier league players - but are they better options than experienced internationals Leighton Baines and Johnny Heitinga, respectively? Of course not! Maybe 10-15 years ago they would have got more first team experience at Everton (the cadamarteri / branch days) but that is more of a reflection of the (lack of) quality of our squad then than it is the relative strength of our youth setup now.

A lot of Evertonians seem to think that every 16 year old who shows a bit of promise should be thrust straight into the first team. In reality players might not be ready for a top half premier league team until their early - mid twenties (eg Tim Cahill, Phil Jagielka, Leighton Baines etc). In an ideal world we'd be able send young players like Wallace, Baxter, Duffy etc out on ~3(+) year loans to championship clubs where they could learn their trade and a decision could be made about whether they will be premier league quality when they get to ~ 22/23. Look at Tom Cleverley - he is 23 and only has 10 caps for Man Utd. Wallace and Baxter are only 21 and 20, respectively.

Mark, do you think that maybe our kids feel they should break in sooner, because we are not a Man Utd with the depth. So once they are on the bench they think they have made it and should get a run sooner rather than later?

So they leave when it doesnt happen, ala Wallace and Baxter. 2 players that might have still made it.. but only in a couple years by showing Osmans dedication to the cause.

Well we might not have the depth of Man Utd but we do have experienced and often international players in pretty much every position. And some of the young players who have been brought in or come through since Baxter and Wallace burst on the scene seem to have jumped ahead of them in the pecking order. So whether they feel they should have got a run sooner or not, the reality is they didn't - and rightly so because there has always been better options. No young player has a right to progress to the first team - they get there if they are good enough. More likely both Baxter and Wallace have realised that, as things stand at Everton, they are not currently good enough to take the place of the experienced, international players ahead of them. I would have liked them to have stayed and gone out on year long loans (or as I said before even a longer loan) as I think that in 3 or 4 years time they might be useful premier league players. As things stand right now, neither are good enough to be getting regular first team football at a top 8 premier league club.

Dick your talking bollocks how many teams bring youth players through into the first team . Man city paid mega money to win the league so did Chelsea blackburn how many off them brought youth players through so there coaching is better than ours because they paid millions to get were they are .Everton do well with there youth players just because they don't make it big or push on is nothing to do with the Everton coaching staff but all to do with the player not being good enough .Just because they look good when ther kids does not mean they are going to be super stars you are talking utter bollocks

Now we arguably find ourselves caught between two stools.

Our first team is of a high enough quality that we can't really justify playing young players on a regular basis.

Our squad isn't big enough that we can lose extra depth by sending too many young players out on loan.

I think, then, we sometimes get in a situation where a player reaches a certain level of age and development and then stalls because he's close enough to the first team that he needs to stay with us, but then ends up doing nothing more than sit on the bench.

Add that to the fact that we're rarely comfortable enough in any game to be able to blood youngsters for, say, twenty minutes when we're three-up and cruising, and you have something of a frustrating conundrum.

Matt and Andrew, 738 and &739, even championship teams loan players out to the same division. And they have less resources than Everton. As for Rooney and Rodwell, who collectively brought in 40 million, they were earmarked for greatness even while 16 years of age.

I think the phrase most are looking for is hope or false hope. We all dream of a crop of ferguson style youngsters that come through and transform the side into world beaters.

The truth is most will fail. On this site we are already pinning our hopes on Barkley and even lundstrum. It's the same that most of us hope to sign 4 or 5 signings and keep the existing squad. Reality and hope.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but hasnt the M-word got something to do with this, yes that's right I'm bringing up MONEY. Even at ages 11 and below the best of the worlds clubs (Barca, Real, ManU, Chelsea, ManC, AC Milan etc) can make the best offers to the worlds brightest prospects. I mean why did Messi leave Argentina at such a young age? It was a combination of the Barca set up and the success of the Barca team and yes, the money on offer, both immediately and in the future if he became a success.

Everton with their relative lack of recent success and no European history just wont compete with the bigger clubs. ManU scout players from all round the world at 10 upwards but we don't. Our reach is Britain and Ireland pretty much (with a few notable exceptions - Silva, Velios etc) and I'm afraid we don't have the money to scout much further afield and take the risks involved. ManU can afford a few more punts on potential future stars, the same way they can also "waste" money on established players like Berbatov, Veron, Hargreaves, Djemba, Kleberson, Bebe, Taibi, Owen etc (that must be £70m + including wages)

Ian I think the hope is from us knowing we are never going to buy a winning team... so we hold onto youth players taking that u18 league winning form into the premiership.

Mark another issue for Baxter based on his tweet after the Tranmere game was that he felt sidelined by other youth players now moving ahead of him in the pecking order.

Southampton... hey let me see... Oxlade-Chamberlin and erm .....erm oh that headless chicken Wallcot and erm .... Oxlade-Chamberlin that lad with loads off potential.

Wait a min — didn't Rodwell have loads of potential? What about Rooney? — did he not come through the Everton ranks? See how bad he is... must be the training he got at Everton. Ossie? No, he can't've come through the ranks — he must've got trained somewhere else.

What a load off tripe

Dick (721) are you saying players stagnate under our coaching staff?

Leighton Baines showed up as a good attacker , lousy defender. Now he is an all around world class left back.

Fellaini was shite for about 2 years.

Jags didn't start well but developed into player of the season in 2009.

Arteta certainly developed into an incredible player under Moyes.

Osman, the last 2 years has gotten considerably better.

Some players develop, some don't. Coleman had injuries to contend with last season in addition to being played out of position. But it is fair to say that he hasn't progressed as well as we thought he would. Hibbert's crossing has gotten considerably better. I think he had the second or third most assists on the team behind Pienaar and Osman and he was sharing his position with Neville.

I've always thought the coaches at EFC are lacking. We have average ex players training up n comers. I wonder how much better we'd be if we signed up some International quality coaches, Ex Ajax people or a spanish type that has been there and done it. Has to beat Steve Round and David Weir etc.

I agree with Peter (@843) on that one. I bet Carlos Van Brocklehorse-Paellez (or similar) would be able to bring on Barkely a lot better than Stubbs and Moyes.

We got about £50m for Rodwell and Rooney.
As for the others... where are they? Where are the youngsters who have demonstrated that our coaching is no good by producing the goods when they have moved on?

Silk purse, sow's ear, can't.

I'm quite taken aback by this. Everton may lag behind in many quarters but youth I think they are well above average. I'm trying to think of another Premier League club who has faired better...

Man Utd who are renowned for there youth policy? Ever since Keane, Scoles and Beckham came through, who else lately has come thought the ranks? They are buying youth now (the boy from Crewe).

Man City... again I'm struggling to come up with a name; Arsenal? Chelsea?
When was the last time any Premier League club sold an ex-youth player to another club for over £20M? £15M??

Er Shaun - Sunderland sold Henderson for £20 million and Newcastle sold Carroll for £35!!

John - and Abramovich gave them (and I believe these figures are all undisclosed anyway) in the region of £50 mill to do it. Talk about a kid, KKK, in a sweetshop. Except that Carroll and Henderson aren't actually that sweet. What are they trying to get for Carroll now?

Ever thought about where loveable Roman's money came from, and why its not in Russia any more? Think about Goodfellas.

Tony J #709 "The only youth players to be released by Everton in the last 10 years to make a big name for themselves are.....wait for it....... probably, Baines and Jags."

Released by Everton because they were not good enough and then with some better coaching at other clubs became good enough for the Premier League and then we bought them back.

John #895 Downing also, and maybe Glen Johnson?

Funny how they all went to the same club though?

@Eric (901) - The implication is that there's some kind of massive failing by Everton, because those players subsequently became successful, and that this is somehow unique.

It's firstly kinda misleading to suggest that Jagielka or Baines were "on our books" in that way. Both of them spent time training with various clubs as kids, before moving to Sheffield United (in Jags' case) and Wigan (for Baines). Does that mean that Manchester City or Stoke have equally negligent youth programs, because they also passed on Jagielka? Or that Liverpool's center of excellence are incompetent because they passed on Baines?

Youth development is clearly an inaccurate art. Established stars of the past like Peter Beardsley (Newcastle) or David Platt (Man Utd) were also released as youngsters. Howard Kendall talks in his autobiography about how the coaching staff essentially flipped a coin on whether to retain a teenage Paul Bracewell at Stoke.

While none of this is to say that we as fans shouldn't scrutinize our youth program, and make criticisms, we too often choose to take everything negative as "proof" that there's some kind of special incompetence, whereas in fact most of those supposed negatives are pretty much par for the course even in the best of youth programs.

Just to be accurate, Jags joined Sheffield Utd in 1998, Baines joined wigan in 2002 after leaving the Liverpool centre of excellence, so neither of them were ever coached by the Moyes regime.

I suppose that with youth players much really depends on timing, taking chances when they come and a fair smattering of luck.

Rodwell never really took his chances when they came along, never putting in performances of such a quality that he knocked other players down the pecking order. He was unlucky that when he was showing form, he got sent off unfairly against the RS, the got injured. Timing wise, if a big bid had come in for Fella, or he suffered a long term injury, maybe the club wouldnt have decided to sell him, maybe he would have got that chance to prove himself?

The same situation for Vaughn.

I don't think you can point the finger at the youth coaching system. They have a reasonable record for producing youngsters with potential. The burden of fulfilling that potential also lies with the players themselves. Some step up, some fall away.

There is also a financial factor. Many young prospects get snapped up by the likes of Utd, Chelsea etc because they offer the families more. I think David posed the question of which team would offer his kids the best opportunities to get experience, but many would consider which teams would offer the kids the best package.

Oh for a winger (davey thomas) that can land a cross on a sixpence. If these guys arnt out practising this stuff what do they do at training everyday? five a side? juggling the ball? penalties and signing autographs. Oh the life of a pro footballer at Everton. Hey lets practice tracking back until we get that right. Big Vic you practice falling over and crying like a 3 yr old. Good old fashioned dribbling at Everton means wearing a bib. Dont forget our diving technique, never know you might get an Olympic call up. The only decent coaches at Everton are the match day ones with the big rubber wheels on them.

^Don't think it's the same situation for Vaughan as he has had the chance to prove himself in the EPL at Norwich and they are looking to get rid of him now so it looks like he just would never have made it.

IF Rodwell lives up to the expectations a lot of Evertonians had for him he could do well at City if he's prepared to bide his time, or he could go the same way as Vaughan.

And yet Eric, after Moyes brought them back, they are now both English Internationals......didn't see Baines and Jags getting called up when playing for Wigan and Sheffield United respectively.

It is not the coaches,or what positions they played in.
It has more to do with the football philosophy of the manager and how he instructs the coaches on how he would like his team to play.

I think Vaughns issue is still his injuries, this is my point about luck! If he had been a bit luckier and stayed fit then I think he might still be at everton.

Tony J, but they were both class acts at Wigan and Sheffield before they joined us.

This may be relevant:

http://www.football365.com/f365-features/7990525/Thumbs-Up-For-U-21-Reserve-League...

I think we all know too much about Everton. Obviously I don't mean the finances but about the young players in particular. I know that I look for any scrap of hope from any young lad mentioned. I reckon if we looked at the youth set up of most premier clubs we probably compare ok. To be honest, my own expectation of the Everton youth system is probably desperately unrealistic.

Also, I think that anyone with a track record of producing and coaching quality young players is probably in a top job already. I see no reason why average ex players cannot be top coaches. It is about knowing the fundamentals of what makes a player and allying them with young talent.

Michael Bannon, Rory McIilroy's coach was an average club pro.