"You can't polish a turd".

That goes for Bill Kenwright and The Blue Union.

The Blues Union underestimated their enemy from the very beginning. Bill knows how to use the media for his own purposes. Whenever we win an important game, the camera zooms in on Bill. The smirk on his face is priceless; the Caesar himself applauding the gladiators at the colosseum.

You cannot win against Bill; Bill is invincible.

Hail Caesar!

I'd suggest people check out the article in the Liverpool Echo before commenting.

Sorry Jimmy, but unless there are two versions out there, the article I read wasn't anywhere near as controversial as it would appear from your OP.

I am no great fan of the Chairman, but I think most people were glad that he was able to thrash out a deal for Pienaar, and Kenwright did say that was only part of the overall picture. The signings of Naismith and Mirallas are mentioned, as are the efforts of the players on Monday night and the support of the fans.

Yes, we must keep the Chairman and the board accountable for their stewardship of the club but we also have to expect them to be proud when they manage to do something positive.

“It was magic and thanks to those fans. We’ve heard (about a) 12th man a lot but they were 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th.”

With our still-threadbare squad, a few injuries and that statement will ring oh so true.

I think Bill has done some excellent business for the club recently and should be given credit. The guy cannot win with some people.

What a man, he has absolutely run rings around all of his detractors. In the last 8 months he has done nothing wrong but stuck his hand down the toilet and pulled out Mars bars every time.

I think it's about time that those seeking to undermine the club and view everything with negativity just choked back the bile and start giving it the support it needs and deserves.

I watched the game against United, first live game for a few years and I came out proud of the club and proud to be a supporter of it. We have little money and yet we have put together a fairly exciting squad and played off the park a team who outspends us massively.

I hope that the BU closes down now, for me it did nothing and was never going to.

You da man Billy K, you deserve your smugness. I'm going to put his picture on my wall.

Martin 863

Thought you would have had it up already ....in your toilet.

Jimmy - Norway. Stop talking through the back of your head

Surely it was only natural that BK would seek plaudits for finding a poxy £4M to sign Pienaar. Given that it required his manager to get three times more than that for losing Rodwell is,of course,immaterial!
But he`s right, `the natives ARE happy`and will remain so just as long as last season`s second-half form continues into this campaign.Personally,I don`t see BU as `bad times` agitators but they will have to become a mite more volatile during the hoped for good run to wipe away that impression,methinks.

Phil: Sadly, they won't get support from the majority of fans during the good times as most of the crowd can't see past the next match. They don't care that the stadium is showing it's age, that we have off-loaded half the squad and have shonky loans all over the place. "We beat Man U!!!!!!!!!!! Praise Bill!"

Jimmy you are becoming my least favourite poster, only because you have a unique perspective on all things pertaining to Everton.
You seem not to be able to sense the general mood of optimism that is apparent to most. I would agree that it is based on very shaky foundations and is liable to disappear as quick as it came.
Let me give you some reasons to be cheerful

1) we are unbeaten in 10 premier league games, only two off our all time PL record.
2) for the first time in a long time the squad is fully fit
3) the squad is undoubtedly stronger than this time last year
4) we have just put the PLs most successful side to the sword
5) in this calendar year at Goodison we have now beat not only Man U but the champions of England and the champions of Europe
6) the media pundits are now describing us as dark horses and if that counts for nowt I can't imagine many teams thinking playing us is going to be easy.
7) Royston Drenthe is off the payroll

Now I for one don't believe this guff about BK being a devious lying incompetent charlatan but neither do I think he is our saviour. My view is he's a bit of an egotist but his intentions are honourable. However you pays your money you make your choice.

I have enough miserable times supporting this team, please stop pissing on my parade.

This just sound like the post match interview he gave Everton TV copied into the Echo. Its still on the site to watch for yourselves and make your own judgements.
Personally, I always get sucked in by Kenwright, a much under-rated actor.

Paul,

What exactly are you talking about. We off-loaded half the squad? How do you figure that, when keeping in mind the players we brought it. We offloaded Cahill, Yobo, Baxter, Rodwell. Brought in Naismith, Pienaar, Miralles, and a young Irish defender. Not to mention the players we signed last January, Gibson, Jelavic and Francisco. Yeah we have an old ground, a hell of a lot of the fan base didn't want to move. Yeah we have loans, so does just about every other club around.

Hand it over, hand it over, hand it over, Man city — our is name written on it!

Well, why not?

Martin Mason, sometimes satire can be just a little too subtle. I think you've overdone it this time. I nearly took you seriously at the first reading of your post.

Mark (876), I think you're right, I've watched the interview and to be honest, I couldn't find a sick bag big enough. The man is an absolute knobhead and isn't it funny that we only ever see him giving interviews when he thinks things are going well? I can't understand how some people can't see through him.

Fucking moan moan moan jimmy,

Whither Marsh and Dodd as we go into the new season? Whilst Kenwright is temporarily `out of trouble`,I am sure Marshy will be looking for a Moyes engendered slip up tomorrow and Doddy waiting to defend him.
It gets boring on here without anything to be controversial about!

The optimism us fans feel now is despite Kenright, not because of him.

Graham @ 875. I agree - lets enjoy it and get behind them. The team is the best its been for a while and we are strong right now. I enjoyed reading that post.

Bill is skilled in exactly the same way as the snake oil salesman is.

He can read a crowd, he knows a smile is better than a frown, he knows he doesn't need to convince everyone, just...enough people.

He understands sleight-of-hand and distraction.

And as Bob Monkhouse once said, 'Sincerity is everything, people must believe you're sincere...and once you've learned to fake that".

The team played well towards the end of last season and have started this season with a result/performance that thrilled us all - of COURSE they should be backed.

But keep in mind, Kenwright has lied through his teeth, time after time after time.

He is a chancer, an actor and a bullshitter and there is a VERY good chance that the combination of his lies and uselessness could, in the not too distant future, drop us in something truly horrible.

Should that day come, nobody will be able to say 'I had no idea'.

Bill can gurn and play the ultimate fan to the media but he is still a lying, deceitful charlatan to me who hasn't put a penny into EFC for years

Without Moyes he would have gone years ago

And Martin Mason, good try...................

Eugene, but at least you will be able to say I told you so. However tonight by chance I was reading some old Toffeeweb reports from 1997-98 ( I was trying to find out the date I first slept with my wife and could only remember it was the night before a Derby Count away game!).

If you really want to remember how bad things were go and read a few match reports, we were so close to being fucked. (Also my appreciation to Michael Kenrick, we very rarely agree but your site like now was ahead of its time.)

I've had the privilege to spend time in Bill's company and my first hand opinion is he really cares about our club; you may say he's a great actor to which I would reply, "Just watch Corrie".

Eugene #954, "Should that day come, nobody will be able to say 'I had no idea'."

Normally, I agree with your sentiments. On this statement, I can't. As mentioned previously, a large proportion of fans care not for the machinations of the EPL and its ownership, they just want to watch their team take on another.

They are therefore more inclined to follow the views expressed on the Echo comments section, and here, which is "that he's one of us" (and therein disproving that they care not about ownership, but I digress).

A cursory look at the spending of Sunderland, QPR, Southampton, West Ham and others from the also ran pack suggests ambition.

Don't count your chickens Billy boy.

"The only thing Bill knows is talk, the cheap kind"

Bit rich coming from you Jimmy Soerheim eh??

If you had your way you'd have Royston Drenthe leeching off Everton FC getting pissed up on my season ticket payments.

Pressure makes people perform better. The Blue Union applied pressure to Bill so there's no way last January that Bill was not going to get some players in or he would have been in for it.

Of course, it's like when you were a kid and you get told off about not starting those dishes you do on your set night, you go off to do them after being shouted at and say 'I was going to do them anyway'.

David #966

What do you believe Bill's motivation is?

I go for supporting the team, of course I do.
The team deserve all the support it can get.

Kenwright will get nothing, because he has done nothing good for the club, he has had many chances, like with Kings Dock, which was a master stadium.

Bill just tanked it, how can any true Everton fan forgive that?

Now I am happy about our team being close to a quality team again, still a right winger needs to be signed.
I can jump for joy about keeping Fellaini and Baines, but I have not forgotten about last seasons transfer of Arteta just before the deadline so we could only sign loan players.

How will the mood change when Fellaini is the next one out the door?
Perhaps right before the deadline closes like last season or in January..

History shows just how much Bill likes those big sales, Wayne Rooney who he swore would never go for less then 50 million.
How much did he go for?

I am not here to try and change your minds about Kenwright, because if you are not already there where you dislike Kenwright then I will not bother with you.
"If you know your history", do you know your Kenwright history or do you jnot care as long as things seem good right now.

The transfer deadline is not closed yet, watch out for a blow you Kenwright supporters.
It will come when your guard is down.
Until then......

Bill has done us proud this season and the optimisium is back last, season was a disaster, the way in which we lost Beckford, Yakubu and Arteta was horrible.

I think Bill made a big mistake by not being open about it and all the not knowing what was going on made things a lot worse, I think if he had come out and said we are in a bit of trouble at the moment but stick with us we can sort it etc things wouldn't have got so bad.

I was harsh on him last season but certainly watching that interview, I'm happy the way this seasons has panned out so far transfer-wise.

Graham #967, I think you just hit on a great topic in its own right.

I'm sure David can answer but I'd throw out a few thoughts of my own.
- I don't doubt he's a true Blue
- At the time of his takeover, neither he nor the remaining original investor were loaded. I don't believe they paid out for those shares, I believe they put them on the club in a leveraged purchase (I base this on a sudden jump in club debt within 12 months)
- I believe he wanted to make money out of his investment (and I think this is perfectly natural) - after all, he was on the board when we were one of the protagonists for the breakaway
- I believe he recognised early on that he was being overtaken by developments in the league, and he nor his fellow directors could compete
- (Note, I am glossing over the Kings' Dock situation), but falling out with a fellow investor who probably enabled the buy-out in the first place, should be concerning
- I believe that not even he believed that Destination Kirkby was the answer. The attempt at gerrymandering a vote served nothing other than to fracture the fanbase (which still exists today) but by this stage I believe that he felt he'd have the best chance of selling up and not personally bankrupting himself.
- I believe there are loans taken out that are not reflected in the clubs statement, through third parties who have other interests outside of football that died with the DK demise.
- I believe that the asking price is too high, but that a lower price would enable a sale.
- I believe that the conditions of the sale are prohibitive to potential buyers due to the presence of outside interests wishing to retain control
- I believe that Bill had the best interests of the club at heart, but got out of his depth, and turned to people for help who didn't share that interest
- I believe that he made David Moyes one of the highest paid managers in the world because he is astute to know that without him the house of cards would've collapsed
- I believe that any increase in value in the club is in spite of, and not because of, his Chairmanship - the increase in PL revenue is down to membership of that league, the stripping of the asset base is down to the Board
- I believe a former manager, a former CEO and a former senior exec who maintain we have sailed close to administration on more than one occasion

I could go on, but you've probably hit "click to go back" already.

I don't want him to be a Pariah, or lose his shirt, so I guess like everyone else I just gotta wait and hope he brings in someone to take us forward, in the best interests of the club...

Eugene...

For once I disagree with you.. there will be people who can say they didn't know. But that's their shameful fault.

Some seem to believe that Evertonians split into those who hate BK and those who love him, this is absolute bollox of course. Most of us just accept that, while we could get a lot better, the EFC team are actually doing well with very limited resources.

Another concept that needs quickly stamping on is that Everton's recent performances are somehow down to the influence of the BU. We are doing well despite the BU not because of it, they are a joke and the last thing that a struggling club needs.

We have a good team now and a great atmosphere at the club apart from a tiny minority of our fan base who I think in reality would find fault if we were in the CL final every year. We're not top 4 material and we won't be that unless we can find a benefactor and the overwhelming probability is that we won't so in the meantime be happy with a management team that is not only keeping the club afloat (a very good achievement in its own right) but building a good side that is very pleasing to watch.

This isn't satire or piss taking by the way, like everybody else in soccer apart from a tiny group of bitter Blues I believe that we should be given credit for, not denigrated for, the way we are going now.

I've been watching Everton for over 50 years now and for 80% of that time we have been often woeful and far worse than we are now; that we have somehow been dragged down by this current board is pure fiction. They have their agenda of course but as the owners of the club that is their prerogative.

Martin, If we are not top four material what type of material are we. I want us challenging every year, surely that is my hope at the beginning of the season. That does not make me a bitter blue. I am a realist in as much as if we finish in the top ten then we haven't had a bad season. The EPL has almost locked in the top four, however I feel that is changing, Liverpool are struggling, Arsenal will not be as potent without RVP. So that potentially leaves an opportunity to gatecrash the champions league were your revenue stream increases (preaching to the converted).

So Martin are you one of those guys who thinks that we will have punched above our weight if we deliver a champions league place?

Martin.

"They have thier agenda of course"
What do you believe "thier agenda" is?

I'm not a Moyes hater, although I would prefer more attack at times. He has made some excellent signings over the years, more than I would care to detract from given he is gambling on the lowest end of the scale out of any premier league manager.

But Kenwright I have little time for. I am not expecting champions league football unless some investment is made year upon year, which isn't going to happen currently. But I would like to see some kind of effort made to secure the future of Everton financially, on the same sort of playing ground as those around us in the league. That means financially improving areas of the club that bring in revenue regardless of league position, ie not the playing staff.

Whether this is the merchandising, (which as I work for Sport Direct in Kingston-upon-thames and we sell close to 60 different kits Everton not being one of them.) which is not good enough, or improving the stadium, which by the standards set by the clubs around us is not good enough either.

The fact that none of these areas are good enough and that this has been known for a long time, and the fact that once invested in these areas can pretty much never turn out to be a poorly invested sum of money like a footballer tells me that either Kenwright is looking for a way out for himself, not really thinking about the club, or he is an imbecile who doesn't truly understand that a modern football club needs to exist off the pitch financially as a profitable business as well as on the pitch.

Till he makes the effort one way or another my negative opinion of the man will not change.

Matt @975.Excellent summing up of the present situation.It may shock you to see me admit it but I have come to believe that what you say here is right on the button.I will continue to support and and defend my club to outsiders (mainly the Dark Side!) but a summer of reflection and lengthy chat with an ex-insider has dramatically changed my views on many things Everton.
Now let`s get another three points off the Villa!

Matt (961) - you say..

"Eugene #954, "Should that day come, nobody will be able to say 'I had no idea'." Normally, I agree with your sentiments. On this statement, I can't. As mentioned previously, a large proportion of fans care not for the machinations of the EPL and its ownership, they just want to watch their team take on another".

I don't dispute this at all Matt, I think you're right, but..that's kind of the point/problem.

Everything is ok..........until the second it becomes NOT ok.

THAT is when you'll hear weeping and wailing and gnashing of NHS dentures.

THAT is when those now confidentally bashing the BU will be yelling (nb: loudest) "I fucking said ages ago we should have protested..."

Sometimes of course there is nothing that can be done to avert a disaster, and it maybe that in our case, nothing can be done to rid ourselves of a proven liar and someone proven to be incompetent.

However to applaud (ie: encourage) this man and (regarding him) to simply accept the status quo is (imo), not unlike, in the face of danger, covering one's eyes and convincing one's self the danger doesn't exist.

I am currently reading Max Hastings 'All Hell Let Loose' and it is interesting how during the 30s, despite all the evidence to the contrary, the majority of British politicians convinced themselves Germany/Hitler was no threat and so did nothing.

Basically, wishful thinking replacing rational thought.

You might say 'a large proportion of politicians cared not for the evidence in front of them, they just wanted to continue cricket on the village green etc'.

(nb: Before anyone responds angrily with "SO YOU'RE COMPARING..." - No, I am NOT comparing the two situations, just using a big obvious easy-to-comprehend example to help make the point).

Eugene #048, I'm now back to agreeing with you. I had a hard time recently explaining to my old man about the "Pearl Harbour Theory", but eventually got there thanks to tracking down a congressional paper.

PaulJ@004
I think that we are possibly good enough as a "team" this year to challenge for a top 4 place but we realistically can't because we don't have the necessary quality in depth of squad. I really hate the words "punched above our weight" although we have almost certainly done better in general than we'd perhaps be expected to given our revenue? If we finish in the top 4 this year I'd say that we'd probably reached the top end of our potential. Our best team is possibly good enough but our squad unlikely to be so if we get injuries. Say we lose Jelavic or Fellaini for long periods? Qualifying for Europe (not CL) is possibly our real potential and if we also play football that is good to watch then I'd be happy. I'm not sure I'd jump for joy if Everton were in the CL. I jumped for joy last Monday, what a performance

PaulA@012

Bill aside EFC's board and other "backers" are very hard nosed and successful businessmen, their agenda will be to sell the club and make a good return on their investment. The amount they make will depend on how sellable the club is which in turn depends a lot on how successful we are. Their and our agenda may seem at odds but the ends are the same. Bill is only a front man and probably the only one that really cares about the club in the same way as we do. His main mistake is that he tells us what he feels we want to hear, I think he wants to be accepted as a genuine Blue even as a director but it has backfired on him really. Whatever he says will be used against him by some so he'd be best saying nothing but that would also be held against him.

Graham Mockford (959) - you say..

"Eugene, but at least you will be able to say I told you so."

Actually, I'm saying 'I told you so' right now.

Should we end up fucked financially (or otherwise), the sound of all those who could have complained (but applauded instead) bleating "Well we can all be clever with hindsight" and/or "I always said he was a twat" will merely add to the depression.

Let's not forget that it was Kenwright who chose to bring David Moyes to the club...at at time when we were relegation candidates. Since then he and Moyes have overseen the capture of world class players such as Baines, Fellani, Jelavic, Pienaar, to name a few and turned us into contenders for Europa League and even brought us Champions League Football!

People go on about the stadium but that isn't everything - Bolton have a nice shiney new ground with all the retail and corporate facilities, as do many smaller clubs...would you sacrifice what we have at EFC for that???

I personally believe BK has the best intentions for the club at heart, he is not perfect - but who is?? Each to their own but I will be a sad Evertonian the day he steps down and our club is sold to a businessman like all the other clubs as opposed to being run by a True Blue...an Evertonian...isn't that part of what makes our club special?

Graham Mockford - well said.

BUT, I will still have a street party when Kenwright finally goes for good.

And, sorry to be pedantic, but Drenthe undoubtedly had most of his salary paid by Real Madrid.

Matt #975. Great analysis of which I agree with many of the points you make, the most striking being that early on he realised the changing dynamics of Premier League football meant with our operating model it will always be an uphill struggle to compete.
I don't think he got involved with the club with a financial motivation ( hence why I asked the question). I would contend he is a romantic egotist who saw himself arriving on his white charger to save the club he supports. It just was never going to happen and he has made some real howlers along the way, most importantly with his paternalistic ' I know what's best for the club' attitude which has as you quite rightly stated divided supporters.
However I don't see him as the evil despotic puppet master systematically asset stripping the club as some would like to portray. I believe his motivation is the best interests of the club. It is easy to say sell the club but there are not many generous benefactors like Sheik Mansoor or Abrhamovic who get involved basically as vanity projects but there are many out there who would seek to get rich on the back of the club. Give me Bill over a Venky or a Gillet and Hicks any day.

And Eugene # 059 I have also read that fine book and to say you may be oversimplifying the situation that existed in the 1930s would be the mother of understatements. You can't have it both ways by saying "I'm saying 'I told you so' right now and then say ' Should we end up fucked....' surely it should be 'when' and if that's the case with your powers of foresight 'when' do you think that is going to be?

Nick # 068

I know it was a Jimmy Sorheim 'in joke'!!

In the originalpost it says "I demand...."

Well demand all ya like. It is like demading what the next U2 track is. No chance. You don;t own the club, you don't have money and you are like all fans, a member of the audience. If you think you,me or BU have any real say you are as deluded as the reds fans.

Sad bu reality..............and as it has always been even when "we" were the millionaires.

Graham (069) - you say..

"You can't have it both ways by saying "I'm saying 'I told you so' right now and then say ' Should we end up fucked....' surely it should be 'when' and if that's the case with your powers of foresight 'when' do you think that is going to be?"

Semantics (and therefore bollocks)

If you have read the book then you'll know that although Winston Churchill was about the only MP with any foresight re the threat of the third reich, he could not have been 100% definite there WOULD be war.

All he could do was look at the facts and make a call based on them.

(nb: though no Winston Churchill, I am simply doing the same).

I'm sure there were those who in mocking tones asked him 'when?' and I'm sure he couldn't give them a specific year.

But specifically WHEN was not important, that it DID happen..was.

And I'm curious, if I'm talking out of my arse, tell me specifically what YOUR foresight tells you.

I am suggesting, because of the incompetence, lies and moral bankruptcy of our chairman, the future for Everton FC, certainly off the pitch, will be painful at best and a disaster at worst.

He has sold everything, we own nothing, he puts no money into the club, we owe millions - but somehow I'm wrong for not ignoring this (see covering your eyes etc)

Martin,

before I watch the game.

When you say "their agenda will be to sell the club and get a good return on their investment"
Are you including Bill in "their"?

Eugene, you certainly don't "Know yer history". Everto, are where they are now because of the way that they have been run since 1970, because of changing demographics, because of being far too small financially to survive in the modern EPL, in fact you could write a book about why Everton have gone from eatingat the top table to eating crumbs and the Bill Kenwright wouldn't get a mention in it. In fact BK has done nothing because he isn't the power behind the club.

Answer this question. Do we have a reasonably good team now? If yes are you fairly happy about this? Do you know that we have a reasonable team now because we sold assets and borrowed money to buy the players, we traded fixed assets for mobile assets. Do you realise that if we hadn't done this we would likely be in the Championship or worse now? Would you be happier with that? Do you really think that it is the function of a director to put his own money into a business? I class that as absolute bollox, the answer is yes if there is a possibility of returns and absolutely no if it is into an investment basket case such as EFC. They would have to be totally stupid to put money into EFC as would anybody. They are running a business within the constraints of their revenue and for me they are not doing a bad job, in my opinion we are in far better shape now than when the current board took over, what more do you feel they could do?

Graham Mockford # 959. How absolutely brilliant that you should mention first sleeping with your wife in an Everton context.That post has made my day.

I could post something similar about when I last slept with my wife but..... Did you actually mean sleeping?

Eugene #087

You seem like a bright fella therefore I'm guessing you know that to simplistically characterise the start of WW2 as the British Goverment sitting hoping Hitler wouldn't kick off in Eastern Europe if we were nice to him with Winston Churchill as the lone voice of reason heroically standing his corner is complete and utter nonsense.
You have heard of the concept of the 'Western Betrayal'
To save time let me copy and paste as I want to get back to our routing of Villa.
"Notions of western betrayal" are a reference to "a sense of historical and moral responsibility" for the West's "abandonment of (Central and) Eastern Europe at the end of the Second World War," according to professors Charlotte Bretherton and John Vogler.[1][2] In Central and Eastern Europe the interpretation of the outcome of the Munich Crisis of 1938, and the Yalta Conference of 1944, as a betrayal of Central and Eastern Europe by Western powers has been used by Central and Eastern European leaders to put pressure on Western countries to acquiesce to more recent political requests such as membership in NATO.[3]
In a few cases deliberate duplicity is alleged, whereby secret agreements or intentions are claimed to have existed in conflict with understandings given publicly. An example is Churchill's covert concordance with the USSR that the Atlantic Charter did not apply to the Baltic States. Given the strategic requirements of winning the war, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt had no option but to accept the demands of their erstwhile ally, Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin, at Tehran, Yalta and Potsdam, argues retired diplomat Charles G. Stefan.[4]
Max Hastings states that Churchill urged Roosevelt to continue armed conflict in Europe in 1945 - but carried out against the Soviet Union, to prevent the USSR from extending its control west of its own borders.[5] Roosevelt apparently trusted Stalin's assurances, and he was unwilling to support Churchill in ensuring the liberation of all of Central and Eastern Europe west of the USSR. Without American backing, the United Kingdom, with its strength exhausted by six years of war, was unable to take any military actions in that part of Europe.
Anyway much as I love a good history row you are starting to sound like that other WW2 hero, Private James Frazer......... We're all doomed.

Graham,your last post has unmade my day.What in the name of good fuck was that all about?

Hmmmmm.

I'm concerned Kenwrights heatshield has one year left on his deal.

I think BK does a decent job with limited resources - give him a break.

The lack of credit and continuous negative comments reflects more on the character of the critics than BW.

Why not give him credit for providing a decent team and management that allows us to dream of greater things.

Moyes has done brilliant. End of.

Graham Mockford (100) - you say..

"You seem like a bright fella therefore I'm guessing you know that to simplistically characterise the start of WW2 as the British Goverment sitting hoping Hitler wouldn't kick off in Eastern Europe if we were nice to him with Winston Churchill as the lone voice of reason heroically standing his corner is complete and utter nonsense"

Well you don't seem like a 'bright fella', as you are (there really is no other way to put this) 100% wrong (nb: your copy and paste is addressing something other than my point - re Churchill - which means either you didn't understand my post or you DID And are attempting some odd, ineffective smoke screen).

Either way..etc.

Alex Bonnar (133) - give YOU a break?

What...do you live in fairyland?

Sorry but why don't you give ME a fucking break.

Ludicrous, simplistic, blinkered - fact: if BK wasn't 'a blue', you and many others would be calling him a grinning, bullshitting, shifty twat (nb: and for once, you'd be right)

David Price (145) - Wrong thread.

Martin #095 you've delved once again into trumpeting utter bollocks mode, you've made many previous posts regarding the current board and their success in running the club and how its all down to them and the chairman of the club's top flight status and even how they perform on a game by game basis on the pitch but again you've contradicted yourself with today's gems "In fact BK has done nothing because he isn't the power behind the club." - so why do you sing his praises as the reason the club is still where it is - you can't claim opposites unless you truly are schizophrenic. Your second being this "Do you really think that it is the function of a director to put his own money into a business?" and yet in the past you have defended the cancer of BK and his merry board of carpet baggers as being there in the best interest of the club. A director who also holds significant shares in the business who refuses point blank as evidenced at the DK Hearings (yes Martin we've done this evidence to death too) who admit to not having spent a penny of their own money on the club beyond their shareholding and who refuse to dilute same said shareholdings for the benefit of the club thus reiterating their refusal to spend a single penny BUT hold out for an inflated sale of their investment in shares are fuck all but carpet baggers, use any flim flam or spin and its still the same thing.

Eugene

I've always liked your posts as you're normally funny as fuck however the summer break seems to have changed you into angry Eugene.

It was probably always futile entering into a geo political debate about the origins of WW2 not only because it will bore the hell out of everyone but unlike your 100% certainty I am not right all the time.

Your vision of impending doom may be right, we might be fucked although most are feeling slightly more optimistic than say six months/ weeks/days ago.

Ultimately we disagree on the motives and predisposition of BK but at least it's been a fucking great week to be an Evertonian.

"I am suggesting, because of the incompetence, lies and moral bankruptcy of our chairman,"

Incompetence I agree with, I thought the other two, lies and moral bankruptcy are a prerequisite of any successful businessman.

Martin,

In the event of a buy out, do you think Bill will accept his cut?
Or is he being misled by "hard nosed businessmen"?

Quell your bitter blues, Gavin, there are no contradictions in my statements.

My comment that BK had done nothing referred to the previous accusations of what he had amazingly “done” to drag the club down. The reality as I said is that he isn’t the power at EFC and he in isolation can’t “do” anything.

I don’t sing anybody’s praises neither, I simply give the management team at the club credit where it is due and over the last year this has been the case. I stated that I believed that the same team has acted in the best interests of the club in many instances where they were accused of not doing so because of the simple fact that nobody could ever show that they hadn’t. Remember it is 100% the responsibility of the accuser to show his correctness – not the other way round.

You accuse the board of being carpetbaggers but the answer to that is, yes, but only in the way that all business men run companies so that they can gain a benefit from doing so. Your use of the word implies some kind of underhand practices but as always it’s snide inference rather than quantified accusation.

My challenge to you is to be very clear about what you accuse these people of and prove your accusations. I’ll state again that the Board has absolutely no obligation to put its own money into the club and being sensible people they aren’t stupid enough to do so, their obligation is to run the club as best they can for the benefit of its shareholders and they should be given credit for not being stupid. They are absolutely within their rights not to go for a share issue unless they believe that it is to the benefit of the shareholders and, as they are the major shareholders it obviously isn’t.

Lastly, you have no idea what the asking price is for the club yet you infer, again without any evidence, that it is the asking price that is somehow delaying a sale and it’s a fault in some of the arguments presented here, they are opinion and innuendo presented as fact.

I recognize the faults of the board and manager but I believe that they are doing a fairly good job given the situation that the club is in. There is not a shred of evidence and only forlorn hope that any changes would result in improvement but this won’t happen unless the change resulted in significant amounts of money being pumped into the club to put us on a sustainable footing for the future and to give whoever puts this money in a return on his investment.

Just absorb and understand these words and perhaps you’ll then see why the club hasn’t been and is unlikely ever to be sold in a way that is beneficial to the club at any asking price much higher than what the current board paid. That is to an Abramovich rather than the type of asset strippers who bought Man Utd and Liverpool.

Paul@265

I'd guess that BK will receive a cut based on how much money he actually invested in the initial purchase but I'd only be guessing.

He certainly will Martin. Around about 25% of sale I believe. He, as a return on investment, is perfectly entitled to it.

It would help if he stopped making stupid comments about not being interested in the money side of things. As you say "Bill apart,they are all hard nosed businessmen. Ahem

It's fallacy to suggest there is no indication of the asking price. Whilst the exact price would be subject to negotiation, one of BK's appointed sale agents has stated on television when asked that the price would be in the order of £150-160m.

There is an asking price; there isn't an asking price. Yada yada yada.

BK can hold out for as much as he likes, after all who are we to say otherwise?

We could be sold like our neighbours, QPR, Blackburn, Arsenal et al but unless you get the type of buyer CIty have then it's all for nothing. Massive debts, no real ambition and managers that come and go within 12 months. Not for me

Matt, I believe that came from a question from the interviewer who when not given an answer to his request for a price, said "If I were to say £150M would that be about right", to which the answer was, "You may not be far off the mark at that," which is pretty meaningless. In reality there is no price, the club is worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it, EFC has consistently refused to name the price which is very much standard practice.

Paul @ 276
One thing I'd never deny is that BK makes stupid comments for a man in his position but I personally like the bloke or the image that he portrays, he's an eccentric and what would the world be without eccentrics?

Martin the club is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, true, but then maybe there are other conditions attached? I agree with not naming the price - didn't work too well for Ashley at Newcastle, but I also suspect it's because it would have people snorting over their cornflakes.

Martin, again if I don't agree you refer back to the old trite 'bitterness' pill; sad to think this is a debate – not a pissing contest. The call for evidence again, Martin, after many many dreary posts from yourself calling for evidence which, when presented, you slide away into silence... but clamour vehemently for anything in black and white evidence to counter your own evidence-free claims.

The board to a last man haven't invested a single solitary penny into Everton FC beyond buying their shares – if you care to find a carved-in-granite source claiming otherwise, I'd be grateful to see and read it – as would the many other non-sheeple posting here.

Look up what a carpetbagger is, Martin, and when you've done that, look again at what the previous stated evidence of the board looking to make a significant profit without investing a solitary penny beyond shares would not imply but scream from the rafters – C A R P E T B A G G I N G!!!

You can pose as much spin as you like but anyone looking to capitalise on a majority shareholding whilst sitting on a board of directors of a company, having done fuck all to the benefit of that company (again, not a single shred of evidence EVER presented to the contrary – despite asking for it ad nauseum from the BK lickspittles), then it's the exact opposite of a small shareholder making a few bob or killing when their investment goes up in value. They have no impact whatsoever on the daily running and thus value of the business, which is contrary to what a board of directors is and more importantly should be responsible for.

The nuances of using their own or other people's money to do so is Business 101 but if they can make a profit whilst repaying themselves their outlay (or their financiers') is also Business 101; in very simplistic turns, if they take a bath on the investment then that's down to them. To claim a massive profit having done nothing whatsoever is carpetbagging.

The evidence you claim, Martin, I'd happily challenge you to exactly the same. As any good litigation man would tell you, there's a case for the defence and prosecution, so your white knight stance of the accuser only has to prove is bollocks as the perspective on defence and prosecution is subjective; you accuse me so evidence please – I won't hold my breath.

The reputed sale price of the club has come from the very people your beloved BK has said have been asked to sell the club. You've read very well written posts on this site as to the current financial status and well being of the club. Given those together, the reputed asking price and value of the club would support the carpetbagging statement.

Right Matt, it's not like selling a car is it. Do you think it's possible that holding out for a good price and insisting only on selling to the right people is in the interest of the club?

We really are a mongrel of a club but there's such a buzz around now and the first two games have been incredible. I'd really hope that we can pull ourselves out of the pit we are in by success on the field and sell to a good buyer as a good going concern.

Also, yesterday we played a Villa side that had a load of money thrown at it not so long ago. Players like Young, Downing, Milner, Bent etc all earning mega bucks per week and a (hugely over-rated) manager in Martin O'Neill. What did it get them? Answer: Nothing.

As soon as the funds dried up for players, O'Neill jumped ship. Players left at what's left is shocking. As yesterday showed.

So even his most dedicated opponents must admit that in this time he's been partnered with Moyes, BK has done quite a good job.............. Surely??

*Tin hat on*

£150 million probably was a reasonable estimate before the success of selling the Premier League was shown by the massive new Sky deals. The future earnings are now significantly higher and thus the valuation higher.

The current board have overseen huge increases in income, mainly from Sky, and for that they are entitled credit as their actions in appointing and supporting our excellent manager and have kept us in the PL.

As people keep saying I really can't see the point in forcing a change of management as there is no evidence that any but the most rich buyer would make a scrap of difference and plenty of evidence that we have little to interest such a buyer, partly due to things we cannot change quickly I.e. demographics.

BU seem to be in a bit of a quandary now our fortunes have uplifted a little. No support while things are going well? Where then is the merit in the protests of last year? Same board, same manager, same budget. Turns out we were not on the verge of disaster merely rebuilding at a pace too slow for some.

Having said that - we still lack explicit direction on the stadium issue and communication is still quite poor on that front from the club. Has the board in fact given up and concentrating on finding that buyer?

"He's an eccentric and what would the world be without eccentrics?"

Eccentric, eccentric, pants on fire.

The Blue Union.

Surely that's the punchline for every joke

Why did the chicken Cross the Road?

The Blue Union.

Er...That 'barb' doesn't work on any level Chris (probably better to have just said 'I don't agree with the Blue Union').

The Blue Union don't agree with themselves.

Absolute joke

Are you addressing anyone or anything in particular Chris?

"The BU stink, the BU - PAH!! Bloody BU!! BU? BOOOOOOO!!"

Etc.

You've made your 'point' - you don't like the BU, we get it (nb: and I for one think you come across like a 13 year old, talking bollocks that is devoid of insight or intelligence).

(awaits - "no YOU are!")

Seems to me that as you're the one that keeps biting, Eugene (to very little provocation, I might add), that you are the one who comes across as a petulant child throughout this thread.

Martin,

"the image that he portrays" just about sums it up .

Eugene, are you sat in youe EFC pyjamas cuddling your Blue Union Teddy Bear complete with Felli wig?

Wow, good one Mark - "no YOU come across like a petulant child".

Tip: Why not respond to specifics of the content?

Fact: I DID slag the posts as they deserved it - two consecutive posts that said the same thing. Two consecutive posts that were content-free other than calling The BU 'a joke'.

I suggest instead of counting posts, you read what is in them, THEN comment.

(and now let's see if you 'bite')

Someone getting a bit grumpy? Must be nap time!

Chris Morris, I've read funnier prescriptions.

(you should leave the 'comedy' to people who are much, much funnier than you - like Syd Little or Bernie Clifton).

Eugene.

Are you a member of the Blue Union?

Whatever the asking price, recent performances have added a lot of value onto some players. Fellaini especially, and if Jelavic isn't worth £20m?

The value of the club is on the pitch and in the fanbase. BK knows this, he also knows that the Blue Union stay quiet when we are playing well!! I hope the recent transfer activity is a sign of a debt reduction plan. (Try saying that with a straight face!)

Moyes only has a year left on his deal, and he has got BK exactly where he wants him. Villa would love him now I'm sure!

I personally cannot wait until the transfer window is shut, as still, nothing would surprise me with Everton. It sure feels good right now though...

Eugene.

Are you a member of the Blue Union?

There’s no hope, we have no money. Evertons been mismanaged for decades and therefore, what’s the point? This is the best we can expect, we are powerless. We have no control over our own destiny.

In fact, BK has had so little control over events, and is such a hostage to fortune that some posit his role as chairman, for over a decade, wouldn’t warrant a mention in any thorough analysis of Everton FC in the last 40 years!!

We are just a club adrift, rudderless, unable to affect our decline in the revolution that English football has undergone in the last 20 years.

A revolution we helped instigate as one of the biggest clubs in English football.

Hmmmm, quite.

Meanwhile…………back in reality……..where the tone is set by people in charge, the methods they chose to employ have a direct consequence………..

Example? There are plenty, but here’s one. Swansea were nearly extinct a decade ago. I suppose they have been blown to this position by the kind, gentle winds of fortune.

Or……..did they have an on and off pitch plan???????

Newcastle are a very good comparison with us as, currently, after 20 years of going at it in totally different ways we have both arrived, on the pitch, at very similar points.

Newcastle have been developed their infrastructure and business in a fashion that we are crying out for. That progress as a club has been compromised by shocking decisions by the board on footballing issues with frenetic, short term, knee jerk and in, some cases, preposterous managerial appointments triggering instability and on pitch decline which ultimately led to relegation. They seem to have gotten their shit together finally on the playing side, with a long term ethos for player recruitment being at the hub. The transformation in their business and infrastructure, the latter there for new generations, remain. In the new reality of football they are arguably a bigger club than us.

If Newcastle had benefitted from the managerial (football) stability that has been inherent at Everton in the last decade, or directly benefitted from Moyes management, it’s a possibility they would be in a much better position than they are now. Certainly, Newcastle have previously self-harmed and on the pitch put a handbrake on the giant strides the club has made in the new era of football.
We, on the other hand have had that on pitch stability. We have benefitted from a man who came in and swam against the tide of decline. I personally though that before January this year, in the previous 18 months it looked as if his efforts had burned him out. He has since said he only needs a chink of light…………..well thank goodness for that because he doesn’t get much more does he?

For example, any suggestion the on pitch improvement has anything to do with our board (or Kenwright) when it has been within the restrictions of blatant, urgent cost cutting and an upturn (after for me losing his touch for a short while) in the managers transfer market dealings, his ability to get players in……………………..on the cheap.

It has been like this all the way through. After the trauma of the Johnson years they were a good holding board for a couple of years, that was as far as it extended.

We haven’t embraced the boom of Premier League, we haven’t grown the club, we haven’t developed our infrastructure. It’s been a do nothing policy based on utilising any asset the club had. And when you have a do nothing policy, a reactive policy not a proactive one, yes, you will be a hostage to fortune. And that strategy has inherently weakened Everton FC for future generations. The clubs assets have been decimated and there is nothing left. Other than the heatshield and the players he has brought in…………….think about that.

You know what it’s a nice day and it’s too nice to be sat here so I will finish……

Its obviously nothing to do with BK……our rudderless, benevolent blue captain.

Or, you could sometimes just be shit at your job, out of your depth and make crazy decisions, such as……… being the front man of True Blue Holdings which holds 68% of the clubs shares and therefore, I can only assume, has some responsible for sanctioning about 10 million pounds of spending on players BEFORE definitely finalising an investment deal with a NTL, which then falls through, pushing the club into a financial position where they took a loan securitisation based on future season ticket sales for around £30 million, which will eventually end up costing the club £70 million over 25/30 years.

There’s one for you. I have plenty more on request. Investment deals?!!?!

Anyone that wishes to list his successes please fire away.

But I forgot……. there’s nothing we can do. We just have to accept it as this is the best we can expect.

Bobby, you were in reality in your first paragraph but lost it afterwards. Wrt Swansea it's irrelevant where they were a decade ago its's the ceiling that they've reached now (and where they've been before) and it's significantly below where Everton is now as is Newcastle's. The difficulty in soccer is taking the step from where EFC is now and where the top 4 are. EFC is not really in a position to do so and it's nothing to do with mismanagement. What we seem to be capable of, as in 1984, is pulling ourselves out of long term decline by unexpectedly producing a great side from a pile of dung. Before today though nobody has really done it in the EPL without spending power. The everton board knows far better than you what it needs to get back into a sustainably better position than its in now. It isn't a computer game in the real world.

Chris # 345 FFS you making yourself sound a twat! It's not the Spanish inquisition!

The issue as I see it at the moment is the Blue Union have some genuine concerns which have not been answered; however, I think they rolled the dice with the infamous taped interview followed by the non event* / mass demonstration* at the game last year. (*delete depending on your viewpoint)

Unfortunately we then went on our best run of form for a while which appeased the rank and file. We are now in a position where:

A) they have no chance of a meaningful dialogue with the club having burned their bridges completely;

B) the only way they can gain momentum once more is a terrible run of poor form which I'm sure even the most ardent detractors of this administration don't really want.

There either needs to be a different more consensual approach or we can all keep posting ad finitum.

Cheers Martin!!

"We have no control over our destiny", is reality:-)

The NTL farce must have just been negative energy maaaaaan. The Circadian Rhythms just werent happening on that day.

Just how it is sometimes.

Nonsense, again.

I know of no football manager computer game where a football club sanctions spending on players before an investment deal is confirmed. which then forces the club to take out a £30 million securitisation loan against season ticket sales, which ultimately means that £70 million of its income will be dead money over the next 25 years.

Subsequent interest payments?

Drum roll....................FINANCIAL BASKET CASE?

I can understand you ignoring the facts to suit your argument you are far to entrenched to do anything else.

Swansea is relevant. Correct, not a computer game, reality. They have come from the verge of extinction, through the divisions to where they are now. Did they have hope? I would suggest any example of a club transforming itself to that extent would be worth looking at, despite the obvious difference in starting point for where we are now.

Our boards current plan extends to getting the fuck out, sharpish!!!

Newcastle, as we both know, reality. And one you generally ignore when its raised.

If I was a Newcastle fan I would have asked legitimate questions about the endless managerial appointments that harmed the club. But the progression of the football club over the last 25 years, to the point where its a toss up if they are, in the context of the Prem, a bigger club than Everton has, last time I looked, most definitely happened. How? A club nowhere near Everton 25 years ago. This board have been in charge half that period. Its not an accident, is not a computer game its actually happened.

Their ground didnt get built on Champ Manager or something like that, correct!! For once we may agree!!

Action versus inaction.

Perhaps reality and truth thats a little too close for comfort. Especially when you start from the standpoint that this is all we can expect and our board are helpless passengers, which is clearly nonsense.