There was wicked swerve on the shot so it's not fingers pointed at Tim on this one. Just maybe a raised eyebrow.

Man Utd's keeper made a howler, Given got done for spin off Fellaini's header, so looking to replace him is harsh. Could you imagine it happening? No chance.

He's no Martyn, but he's the last position we should look at for improvements.

How much would it cost for a keeper better than him? How many are available that you know are guaranteed to be better than Howard. You'd have to end up taking a punt on some kid and hoping he turns into a Joe Hart. Ruddy was terrible for Norwich the other day.

All keepers have bad days, look at Cech for Chelsea, he had a bad one the other day and arguably had a bad season the year before last. Reina looks to be having a bad two years but it doesn't mean they aren't good goalkeepers.

Let's hope that's Howard's early season clanger out the way and it didn't cost us any points like it normally does. We are used to the standards of Southall and Martyn but they were rare talents indeed and arguably none of the current goalkeepers in the Prem are better than them.

I think he is still good enough for us but does seem to be beaten quite easily with shots from outside the box. I have noticed that Craig Gordon is on a free and would be a good signing for us as a No 2 for now and as a replacement in a year or two.

Tim is a good goalkeeper, but the reason why he makes mistakes from time to time is his concentration letting him. The great goalkeepers, besides having the great necessary attributes, had great concentration. So my advice to Tim, must concentrate from the first second to the last in any match.

I'm happy with him in goal for us but I've always felt that he's adequate rather than one of the league's best. Certainly wouldn't swap him for Reina, who is plain overrated especially by RS fans. "Best in the world" - do me a favour, he's as accident-prone as anyone. My favourite obviously being the 2006 derby when he dropped the ball on AJ's head.

And my perception is that Howard's clangers have actually got less frequent over time; if you're going to drop one then 3-0 up away from home isn't the worst time to do it.

Howard isn't the best keeper about but far from the worst, personally I'm annoyed by his weakness against long range shots, his occasional punch or flap at a cross when safe hands should be catching the ball (this is widespread these days and really grinds my gears) and his refusal to throw the ball out for a breakaway move something Pepe the Clown Reina is good at.

Seems like a lot of goalkeepers have been making mistakes in the opening week's of the EPL. The new Nike ball apparently has more panels stitched into the casing which apparently results in greater swerve. Could be purely conjecture / coincidence ?

Sorry, Ruddy has had 1 half decent season and has managed to get above Robert Green in the pecking order for England, so that makes him 3rd choice? Not so impressive when you look at the other English keepers around. Letting him leave was probably right for him and the club a t the time, and he is no where near the level of Howard.

Howard has been consistently in the top 6 keepers in the EPL for the past 5 years, he has made 1 mistake this season and suddenly he is shit? Whata load of bollocks! He was in great form at the end of last season. He will inevitably need replacing, but this is knee jerk crap.

I think you'd struggle to find more than 3 or 4 keepers on the prem who are better than Howard. I used to think similarly to you on Howard but I agree with Richard Pike on the frequency of his mistakes - I felt they had reduced over the last number of years.

And as for John Ruddy, no offence but I wish Evertonians would stop referencing him as "one that got away". He is more mistake prone by a country mile than Howard. The lad is simply not up to it At the top level. Yes he is a good shot stopper most of the time but most keepers are. Anyone who has watched him more than twice will tell you that he drops balls, doesn't command his area at all and makes way too many mistakes. Don't get conned by him getting an England squad call up, that says more about the number of English goalies playing at a high level than it does about his ability. Just go through the premier league teams and count the number of first choice English goalkeepers

Tim Howard is allways going to make silly mistakes from time to time,it's just what he does but for all those saves that he can't make that require a little spring in his legs and failure to dominate his area from crosses or corners there are a lot of instinctive close range saves that he makes which saves our bacon a lot of the time.

He's not great but he is a good keeper. I do agree with Chris in that we should have a good understudy trying to break into the first team for the next few years. A couple of years ago I would of been happy to give a keeper from a Sunday league an opportunity but now I'm thinking he isn't that bad just a bit of a donkey at times.

While it might be argued that Howard MAYBE could have done better for the Villa goal, it DID swerve a lot. I also don't think he makes that many mistakes. Goalkeeping errors are always remembered because they invariably lead to a goal. When outfield players make a mistake they'll often get away with no more than a groan and a curse from the fans, it doesn't always lead to a goal against.

The fact is that Howard has generally been very consistent for us, the defence know him, they trust him, and that counts for a lot. It provides stability when they know what he's going to do in each situation. It's not often you see confusion between our defenders and Howard which you would if they didn't have confidence in him. Also, I think he's very good at motivating the defenders... if they don't close down a shot fast enough, he gets right out there and gives them a bollocking. One of our defensive strengths I've felt is in the way we've managed to get players literally throwing themselves in front of the shooter to block the shot before it can do any damage, and part of that is down to Howard making sure they do it.

For me, Howard is absolutely fine where he is, and will be for a while to come.

Interesting that those thinking we need a replacement for Howard have not mentioned our Shakesperean understudy Mucha do about nothing! ;-).

I'm with Peter Laing on this one. The commentators have been been talking about 'goalkeeping errors' as much as anything else in the last two weeks, and it can't be a coincidence that there is (yet another) new ball.

I suspect that the authorities know all about the characteristics of this ball, and are quite happy that it has a less predictable flight. as this will make the game more 'exciting'. If it diadvantages goalkeepers, so what? More goals = more TV revenue.

Coaches and players will adapt to it, perhaps by blocking opportunities for long range shooting. This might create more space in the box, or lead to generally more negative tactics, we'll have to wait and see.

Sure, everone will have been training with it, but until the real matches come along you don't see real efforts, real results.

Did you see Reina for Citeh's first goal yesterday? And he's better than almost anybody you could come up with who is readily available.

Why is Craig Gordon a free agent? Not hard to work out. Could he be rehabilitated? Who knows, but he is patently not as good as either Howard or Mucha (Taudal is still learning), so why go there?

Thought this debate had effectively been won the other day. No real need, no obvious targets, and far more important things to worry about.

Si,

Well said, well said, well said. The ball is moving like crazy this season, all goalkeepers are choosing to punch instead of catch, even Cech has had a couple of terrible mistakes already. Howard is easily one of the best in the league, no need to address his position at all. If anyone is looking for an error free keeper they might as well go search for Nessy as well.

Agreed Seamus, Ruddy for England doesn't mean an awful lot.

Howard is decent but does seem to be deceived by the flight of the ball from range a little more often than most, it's like he moves a tiny fraction too early before he sees the turn on it and then can't readjust in time.

Martyn was a godsend after tricky dicky but then how much pressure did he regularly put on the centre backs by never leaving the goal line? Howard is pretty good under the high ball and even if his punches sometimes become limp slaps, there's no keeper going to get everything right all the time. He doesn't fumble much (just one fumble cost Turner his PL career) and the centre backs have confidence in him (a huge factor)

Rather than buy a new keeper I would encourage our midfield and defence to bloody close down players on the edge of the box, don't give them time to line up a long shot and we really should get on ok for another 5 years at least.

All keepers have their weaknesses, Cech near shits himself every time a player is running on to a 50-50 since his collision with hunt years ago and he's ropey under crosses sometimes.

Keith, the Nike blurb on the Maxim ball actually says it is more stable in flight but I would be interested to hear what the players have to say.

Main 'selling' point appeared to be the idea that it is more 'visible' somehow and therefore players were able to react more quickly to it.

If true (how do you even measure something like that?), it could explain why Tim Howard made such a big initial movement to his right which left him very flat-footed for the adjustment to his left which is where the ball ended up going (on TV it definitely looked to be going one way as it passed Fellaini and then swinging sharply the other way).

My only experience these days is during 5-a-sides where we take it in turns to play goalie, but certain balls certainly seem easier to save than others. I am not claiming that as empirical data though. :)

I'm happy with Tim Howard and as a goalkeeper he still has years left in him. He's certainly a far better keeper than Ruddy.

I like Wayne Hennessey at Wolves, I think he'll be absolutely top class, but with the way Wolves have negotiated transfers this summer (£10.75M for Jarvis and £12M for Fletcher), he'd probably cost way more than its worth us spending for a position that isn't currently a problem.

if it ain't broke.....

Si - like I said, coaches and players are going to react and adjust if they think this ball move differently, so any evidence would be difficult to gather in any case.

But relating this to Tim Howard - the shot that beat him was very well struck, on target, but it took one hell of a swerve. It would be harsh to blame Howard. Yes, he does make mistakes, but I think any keeper would have struggled with that one.

Plus you can count on a wind-assisted goal every 5 seasons from our current number 1, must make him worth more than some other 'keepers in the Prem :)

Happy to keep Howard, quality 'keeper and nothing better available within our budget.

When Tim Howard took a step to the right he got himself set up perfectly.The ball swerved wickedly and Tim was caught with his weight on his right foot.He should have saved it but it was nothing like Shay's howler.

In the scheme of things a goalkeeper is way down the line of what we need. It seems to me that he is a key part of a squad where team spirit is excellent.Tim Howard is fine. Ruddy has done great and I'm pleased for him but goalkeepers more than anyone need a run in the side. If Mucha got a run he'd probably be as good as any.

He has no genuine competition for his place.

That's my theory.

This might not be the right thread but...... did anyone see the letter in the Sunday Times yesterday about David Moyes? Basically, it ridiculed their praise of Moyes because of his lack of success away to the "big teams". Now, ten months ago I'd have said that,at last, others are getting the point. However, I'm actually a bit pissed off about it.

How dare outsiders criticise Moyes. that is the job of those of us on Toffeeweb who know what we are talking about.

I agree with the general gist that Tim is not up there with Big Nev but still is very good keeper and certainly top six EPL. I also think that he has become a genuine blue. We do need to look for a successor but at the moment there is still plenty of time. The occassional keeper lack of concentration kicks them up the butt for next matches so at least it was when the match was won and certainly wasn't the worst keeper clanger of the week-end (I think Shay Given who has been a superb keeper is far more culpable) !

Howard is a decent Keeper. There are much better out there but we don't really have the funds. I agree with the above comments about his concentration being his weakness.

Craig Gordon whose on a free might be a useful addition. Least he would challenge Howard as opposed to Mucha who I don't think any of us want to see in the first team.

Howard will make 4 or 5 blunders a season... As long as we're 3-0 up when he makes his mistakes, I won't be complaining.

Poor Tim Howard, as usual the keeper gets it. Just like the 4-4 draw at Old Trafford, where the team got all the plaudits for it's attacking play, yet Tims superb save in the last minute got us the point.
Don't panic Chris, Tim is a good keeper and does the team proud.

Granted Howard is not the best keeper that I've seen at Everton. Southall, West and Martyn (though not necessarily at Everton) were better but which keeper is currently more consistent? Reina probably but he is not immune to the odd clanger. De Gea? Great last week but also prone to the odd gaffe. Schwarzer, Given both ageing and increasingly error-prone. Hennessey was a great prospect but did you see him last season? Even allowing for Wolves being poor, he was dropping clangers every other week. Jaskeleinen, ElHabsi? Both great shotstoppers but treat the bar like a bar of soap. Vorm? Excellent reaction goalie but struggled with crosses against West Ham. Cech - well possibly the best keeper in the PL but he has dropped a few rickets recently. Green - don't make me laugh! Carson - not consistent. Ruddy - we may see a second season syndrome with him - not yet proven for me. Gordon - did you see him when we scored 7 against him?

Tell me who these better keepers are! They're all prone to make howlers occasionally. The best keepers make the fewest and Tim Howard really doesn't make that many! - but as Evertonians we notice them all. Ask yourself who we could afford who is regularly more consistent. I don't think City will be selling Hart to us any time soon.

There are far more pressing areas to address!

Howard is a good keeper. I've mentioned it ad-nauseaum, but his biggest weakness is footwork, which leads to a lot of long range goals.

He positions himself reasonably well, but whilst his natural stance allows for good balance in vertical movement (ie down to quick shots or up to tip over the bar) he's to wide in his stance to get the power to push quickly to get to a long swerving ball. He has to adjust his feet, or just go without the highest level of power in his lunge, leaving him short. Unfortunately he's not quick enough adjusting his feet, and he has to make a short lunge.

As for the rest of his game, i'd rate him above average to very good. He's loyal, durable (thankfully) and generally reliable. We'd have to get somebody clearly better to make it worth replacing him & we need to look at other areas first.

As for Ruddy? Good keeper, but being England 3rd choice isn't an endorsement - De Gea is Spain's 5th choice!. I'm checking the family tree to see if I can become Englands's 3rd choice at the minute.

Howard is a goalkeeper that needs to be in form to perform well enough; right now he is lacking that form. I doubt Mucha would be any better but we might as well stick with Howard until he reaches good form again.

Longer term I would look for a U-21 keeper somewhere, but the price must be right.

Howard makes at least 5 howlers a season, maybe a little more... but he does make saves that even it up during a whole season.

Overall we should stick with Howard the next couple of years, but we should be getting a young goalie in order to be safe.

I think Howard IS a good keeper, cetainly among the best (I reckon Reina is THE best and has been for some time) but we're going to have to be looking at replacing Tim in 2 to 3 seasons and so we need a good keeper to challenge him over that time period and to play some games.

It isn't going to be Mucha so we do need to be looking at getting an already experienced goalie in.

I think as Kevin Hudson pointed out, Howard lacks any real competition for his place..

Birmingham's Jack Butland would be a good young prospect at 19, and a good No. 2 in my book. However, being English, and now a full international (even if its just one game), he would cost a bit.

Jimmy 689, Any player needs to be on form to perform well enough! And 1 mistake really doesnt warrent classing him as being out of form.

Craig Gordon is built like a streak of piss. He make De gea look stacked. Modern keepers need to be built like Athlete.

I can understand the thought of needing a strong reserve keeper to maintain competition for places, but Howard seems to be an impecable professional and is not exactly swanning around letting balls dribble between his legs. Also, top quality back up will cost top level wages.

My OP wasn't a criticism of Howard; in fact I did say he's been a very good GK for Everton, nor was it supposed to be about how good Ruddy is.

The point about Ruddy was that he was young, we let him go and he's done well for himself. However, if he'd have stayed at Everton and been Howard's understudy then he probably could have been better for us in future becuase he'd have been taught by Howard.

Howard (again I think he's a very good GK) will make few mistakes and will eventually be dropped in year or 2 because of his age catching up, but the worry is we have nobody vying for his position now and nobody who could be our GK for the future.

Again guys, this isn't about criticising Howard or anybody else, it's merely about highlighting that very soon we'll need a replacement GK who's as good or even better. If we don't get somebody ready now then we won't be able to afford him when we need him

If you want to replace Howard for making the odd mistake, does that mean that you want to replace Jelavic too. He missed two easy headers against Villa.

Feck me, wanting to replace Howard because he failed to anticipate the massive swerve f the ball, also being unsighted to the start of the swerve by Fellaini.

We Evertonians aren't half harsh

All keepers make mistakes.

Howard is top quality. I don't see why a few errors should make us question his abilities, Who is flawless?

I agree, he's got a soft spot when it comes to the longshot. Otherwise he's as good as they get. And lojal..

I say we have a top keeper in Howard for three-four more years.

He does like a good old cunt Fuck shit though

While on the subject of goalkeepers, what is Mucha's ambition with Everton? He's an international keeper but (as far as we know) seems to be happy only warming the bench.

He's 29 (not enough younger than Howard to make it important and say he'll get his chance when Howard is too old), so I'd have thought he'd really want to be actually playing somewhere, why does he stay with us when it seems he really has little chance of being chosen?

He signed on a 3-year contract, and if he hasn't signed another that'll expire next summer. Anybody suggest why he sticks around?

yes!! Mirallas!!!

oops sorry, wrong stream, got too excited, feel free to delete!!

Fellaini takes a lot of the blame for me for the Villa goal, he just stood there whilst the lad just teed himself up for a crack. Fellaini should have been closing the ball down, but as I said, he just stood there.

Agree with many points made on here, I posted a similar thing and Howard a couple of years ago and got slaughtered; I've never liked him and never agreed with letting Ruddy go.

Poor command of the area, kicking is shocking and he never comes for crosses on corners (think Kuyt in the derby), always has a go at his defenders even when a shot comes in from 30 yards.

Thing is I don't think there is anybody out there to replace him unless Lloris comes which I doubt, he isn't in the top 6/7 keepers in my opinion but I suppose he ain't the worst either. An average keeper and we could do better.

We definitely need a new 3rd choice keeper to increase the competition. But I suppose there are plenty of free agents around at the moment and so the deadline day is not an issue. Just for a laugh look who might be available. It all makes sense now why he was shit... he was homesick.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2195804/Manchester-City-sign-Richard-Wright.html