Season ticket on the drip

I've had a season ticket for over 30 years and managed to pay with cash or credit card. The last 5 seasons with moving home and added bills, I went with the club monthly payment scheme. The pre-Wyness payment scheme was with HFC bank, on which I paid about £40 interest and also got a voucher for the club shop worth 10 or 20 quid, which I thought was good.

The last two seasons [how long has Wyness been here?] ? a scheme called "Call for Cash", hired by the club for its loyal supporters, charge a massive 29.9% interest. WHY?
Colin Malone, Wirral  (28/2/07)

About Time

Ryan Jones' post: best in ages ? I totally agree with him on all counts. I read ToffeeWeb every single day and the anti-Moyes hatred is way out of control. It simply doesn't reflect the feeling of MOST of the fans.

It's now been 20 years since the heady days of the 80's and we simply can't compete with the big spenders without spending big ourselves. This can't happen without major investment, but where is going to come from? What do you want? Sack Moyes at the end of the season for finishing 7th and/or playing unattractive football? The man, like it or not, has brought us forward in the last five years and I'm just glad this website wasn't in existence 10 years ago under Walter. Imagine!
Ian Dickson, belfast  (28/2/07)

Sheffield United vs Everton

I know I have already posted on this topic, but the initial offer I got seems to have disappeared. I'm in Sheffield this weekend but have no ticket for the game as they never went on general sale. If any one has a spare ticket for the away end I would be very glad to take it off their hands. My e.mail is: daniel.ford@yahoo.co.uk

On a completely unrelated and relatively pointless note, the people who think Watford are that bad might like to know that only 1 team outside of the top four have beaten them by more than one goal.
Daniel Ford, Newcastle-upon-Tyne  (28/2/07)

No apology required

In response to Ian Macdonald's post, you have nothing to apologise for, mate. I heard your interview on Radio Mersyside and it was as clear as angel's piss. I won't see you in the Oak I'm afraid but if you care to pop into the Winslow I'll buy you a pint. Good luck, mate (we have got to move from Goodison though!) Talk to you about that in the Winslow!
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (28/2/07)

Our team

From what I have seen this season, Everton are moving in the right direction. We are challenging for a top 6 spot and have brought a few decent players to the club. Johnson, Lescott, Howard and Fernandes have been excellent buys for the club. My only problem is Fernandes; how are we going to buy him?

If Moyes buys him, our budget will be gone and our squad will be exactly the same and tiny. If Moyes offloads fringe players and recuperates some money our squad will be even smaller. If I was Bill Kenwright, I would back Moyes with every penny he has. If I was Moyes I would buy Fernandes and a few loan and free players to boost the squad. If we had money for two players, I would buy Nugent and Joey Barton. Both good promising players, Scousers and Evertonians.
Connor Rohrer, Toxteth, Liverpool  (28/2/07)

Recording of Season Ticket income

Just a quick note concerning the comment made by Colm in reply to Eileen Robert's letter "Nothing Changes" - getting the cash in "to boost Buster's turnover for the financial year" is not strictly true. Although no doubt the cash will come in handy to pay for current/future players' transfer fees, this money relates to income which will be earned between August 2007 and May 2008, and therefore cannot be recorded as turnover in the financial year to 31 May 2007. It will sit in the balance sheet as deferred income, and will only be recorded as turnover in the accounts for the year to 31 May 2008. And people say we accountants are boring!
Bob Turner, Runcorn  (28/2/07)

In response to Edgar van Ser's AVDM post

I've seen all the videos on YouTube of AvdM when he was a young star bursting with pace, power, great technique and a goalscoring touch. Unfortunately it is a different AvdM who arrived at Everton. He is slow, perpetually injured, even when fit he is overweight, appears to be lazy, uninterested. In all, he has the odd good game then gets injured, it is incredibly frustrating to watch since we know he has the skill and the technique, but this counts for nothing if the will is not there.
Glen Anderson, Huyton  (28/2/07)

What Kind of Fool Am I?

Ah, now I see what's going on at Everton. They ensure that the team is out of all the cups before the end of March and the money that we have all saved can be used to purchase season tickets for the Blues rather than being frittered away on luxuries like Cup finals, hotels etc. After all, the first day you can re-purchase your season ticket is April 1st!!!
John Patrick McFarlane, Lancs  (28/2/07)

It's a start...

Good to see the club at least make the effort to keep season ticket prices down. Although they're still not cheap, it's a start. Next on the to do list should be sorting out the replica kits fiasco. I mean, the club have released something like 15 (rough guess) kits in the last 5 years! Now this isn't really a problem for me as I only occasionally buy replica shirts, but for someone with a family who wants their kids to grow up Blue, it must be a nightmare.

I know we need to sell shirts to give us a chance of buying more AJs and Lescotts but to sell someone a replica shirt that won't even be worn by the team (that horrid sky blue third kit of a few years ago) is surely against the trade discriptions act. If it's not worn by the team it's surely just a fucking t-shirt! Rant over.
Tom Emanuel, Oxford  (28/2/07)

Season Ticket Income

Obviously we do not have many accountants writing in but the collection of next season's ticket income assists cash flow only, it will not affect this year's accounts. We accountants have this funny system where income is matched up with the appropriate expenditure, so any income received relating to next year will be carried forward to next year.

On the subject of cash flow, I am quite willing to renew my season ticket early if David Moyes will put the cash towards paying for those players of AJ's quality whom he is hoping to buy. I hope he will also make sure that they can pass because I am absolutely sick of seeing the ball hoofed up the pitch so the opposition's defenders can have it.
Linda Heap, Southport  (28/2/07)

Nothing changes!

As soon as I saw Davey Moyes's assertion on the official website that he was expecting to make more signings of the calibre of AJ during the summer, I just knew that there was going to be some kind of announcement about the purchase of Season Tickets!

With regard to the announcement itself, I am very appreciative....but what about those poor buggers who have to save in Tontines and the like? Why does it have to be as early as April to get a deal on a Season ticket for a season that doesn't start until August?

I hope it's not because EFC have run out of cash now and can't pay the wages!?
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (27/2/07)

FAO Gareth Hughes

Dear Gareth,

I apologise for my late night rant at you. I think I took out my personal frustrations of late on you in my post. I'm sorry. That meet in the Brick or oak is still on offer over a pint. Below is an explanation of the protest that never was. Please accept my apologies, Ian.

Protest, What Protest?
Ian Macdonald, Merseyside  (28/2/07)

Andy van der Meyde

I am an Ajax fan who also has an interest in English football. I am writing to ask people what they think of Andy Van Der Meyde? The last time I saw him play live was Everton v West Ham and he was very good in the first half.

When I watched him in Ajax, I thought he was going to be the wonderkid of Dutch football. I am not joking. I have seen many players in my time including Van Basten, Davids, Gullit, Riikard and now more lately Arjen Robben.

From what we saw of the young Van der Meyde, he was on par with Robben. What is your opinion on him now? Has he got crossing ability, pace, power and the goalscoring touch he used to have at Ajax and for some time at Inter Milan.

I remember when he went on loan to Twente, a smaller Dutch club, and came back an immense player to watch. We had Andy on the right and Rafael van der Vaart on the left. While people took an interest in Rafael, I liked Van der Meyde. I would like to know what you think about his game and not his personal life because I think the media try to make it worse than it is.

I believe you have a winger who, if he gets a proper pre-season could fire you to great things.
Edgar van Ser, Bedum, Holland  (28/2/07)

Season ticket prices

It?s not all good news on the season ticket prices. The Park End has gone up from £494 to £516. That?s if you pay in the early period ? an increase of nearly 4.5%. Also the Lower Gwladys has gone up by £3.

The club announcement of course is accurate (make?s a change). It says that in many cases you will benefit from cheaper prices. It just forgot to say ?except if you sit in the Park End?. Oh well?
Brian Donnelly, Hoddesdon  (28/2/07)

Money money money

I see Everton have frozen their season ticket prices for next season and are giving a 10% discount to those who renew their tickets early. A good move by the club methinks.

The question has been posed by this website, could they have offered more of a discount considering the influx of TV money for nest season.

I would like to ask if people think that they should have offered a greater discount or would it be better to use that money in the transfer market?
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (28/2/07)

Progress is visible, just open your eyes to it!!!

I'm not one to firmly sit myself in the pro-Moyes camp, because first and foremost, I'm pro-Everton. I usually agree with a lot of the opinions (both positive and negative) in relation to our boss, but recently some have started to go way over the top in their criticism.

I was, just as many others were, very disappointed with the way Moyes tactically gifted the game to Spurs a week ago, but by the same token I was elated when the team bounced back with a good display at Watford. Moyes makes mistakes and will continue to make the odd one here and there, it's called a learning curve, and is present in all people gaining experience in their trade.

I personally think we are being led in the right direction but people are to blinded by their hate of all things Moyes to see it. We are making steady progress underneath him. Sure we aren't the most exciting to watch, but if you want to see exciting football and its consequences get yourself down to Upton Park, I hear they're having a stormer this season!

I would love nothing more than to see Everton pass teams off the park but unfortunately we haven't got the players to do that or the money to buy them. However, slowly but surely we are adding quality to the squad.

People like to complain about Moyes as if the 90s were a wonderful and fruitful time for Everton FC in the Premiership, (I personally remember crying as a 9-year-old when two-nil down to Wimbledon) and that Moyes isn't taking us in the right direction. Progress is indeed being made, slow progress, but progress none the less.

I know people will point to Moyes having the lowest Premiership finish but that could easily be put down to the infighting at player/staff level, or at Board level having an effect. Or maybe it was Moyes' "second season syndrome".

Moyes catches plenty of flak for his poor skills in the transfer market, that "he wastes the clubs money". But Moyes has spent at the same rate as the previous two managers and has progressed further than the pair of them at a cost of just £35.2M to the club. Furthermore the amount recouped from player sales in Moyes's tenure doesn't even include the £20M from Wayne Rooneys sale.

If I was to include that large sum it would show that Moyes tenure has cost us just £15.2m. Shrewd? I think so. It goes to show how well Moyes has done to take us slowly forward under such restrictions.

My point is this, even though Moyes has made mistakes with Tactics, Transfers etc, Moyes is making positive progress at our dear club. We will never break into the top 4 unless we get some serious investment and it may be a damning verdict of the state of our game today, but the bottom line is MONEY is the key to success in the Premiership.

So unless you have a few billion down the back of the sofa I suggest we get behind Moyes and enjoy our steady progress.
Ryan Jones, Preston  (28/2/07)

teams performance

In my opinion many of our team have played well and many have played awful. This is what i think of our team:

Howard: good keeper, athletic and good shot stopper.

Wright: prone to mistakes. im not sure if he wants to stay or leave. i think he likes to warm the bench.

tony hibbert: brilliant defender but lacks in distribution and class.

neville: not sure what his best position is. at right back he is a threat going forward in midfield he puts his foot in.

yobo: very good, athletic and speedy cenre half. people always say he makes mistakes but i havent seen one since the rooney incident.

lescott: future england cenre half.

stubbs: but back up. reads the game well but lack pace.

nuno valente: good left back solid and good going forward. but injury prone.

gary naysmith: not a very good player but decent cover.

arteta: our best player. skillful and creative.

osman: very lightweight and slow but nicks the odd goal and works hard.

avdm: from what i have seen good winger but needs a pre season. badly injury prone and suspect attitude.

cahill: energy, agression running and aerial ability make him a hard working goalscoring midfielder. some people on this website seem to think he is a ball player. he is not. lacks skill and accurate passing.

fernandes: classy. calm on the ball, skillful and dictates the play of the game with his passing range. a must buy.

carsley: does a decent job in the 5 man midfield and gets stuck in.

de silva: i watched him in he reserves and the bournmouth game he looks a decent player with a few skills.

mcfadden: very average, does not know his position. somtimes skillful most of the time not. in my opinion an attacking midfielder.

james beattie: people talk about him being lazy but his is not. has a good work rate. people expect him to beat spurs defender gardner in the air who is 6ft 5 where as beats is 6ft 1. when he does not do this people moan. lacks pace and ability to hold up the ball.

johnson: lightning quick, excellent workrate, goalscoring ability and his movement all make him our main man.

victor anichebe: very strong and holds the ball up very well. i dont like the way people are writing him off already he is 18 and needs time to develop his game.

vaughan: lightning quick and aggressive. definetly future everton striker.
connor rohrer, toxteth, liverpool  (28/2/07)

Savings indeed

Thanks, Bill; thanks Keith. The chance to save a whole £4.00 on my season ticket renewal is greatly appreciated. I mean that's like a whole free Chang at half-time one game, innit? Then again, maybe I'll just start going the alehouse instead.
Carl Roper, L25  (28/2/07)

Take it easy

Ian MacDonald, have you calmed down yet? Then allow this 'weirdo' to respond to your, ahem, 'exciteable' post.

First, I know that you do sterling work in the Everton community and lots of credit to you for that. I'm sure you make sacrifices that people like me wouldn't consider.

The ironic thing is that you and I are probably on the same side when it comes to our feelings about the lack of progress at our beloved club. My only gripe with you is that if a fans protest is publicised and then doesn't materialise it is both frustrating and embarrassing to fans like me, desperate for our Chairman to feel the wrath of Evertonians who aspire to something better than mid table.

Ian, one thing you fail to address is why this fans protest on Saturday didn't materialise. Was it just because fans were suddenly put in a good mood after we walloped a useless bottom-three side?

Was it just because your initial promise of protest was merely hot air? Or were you misquoted by the press in the first place?

Whatever, I apologise, on reflection, for calling you a 'rent-a-gob', as I'm sure you regret labelling me a 'weirdo' just for having the temerity to question your original comments to Her Majesty's Press.
Gareth Hughes, Liverpool  (28/02/07)

Changing the subject!!

I was just wondering if anyone else feels that the already LFC-biased Echo is beginning to reach new levels of brown-nosing in how they report 'stuff' about both clubs?

Am I being picky or does Dominic King purposely defend everything the club does and suggests the fans are thicko's who know nothing? I long for the early days of Prentice, before he also sold his soul, where he told it how it was and actually understood where the fans were coming from.

Did anyone pick up on the Echo article on Monday relating to the Top 10 of country's worst behaved fans travelling by rail headlined 'Reds rivals see red' in which the whole spin was how Chelsea and Man U fans topped the chart?

Would I be cynical to suggest that were the content of the story relating to EFC the headline would have read 'Blues rail shame' because where this story made out that because two of their rivals were 'naughtier' than LFC this was OK.

The real fact was that the 'best fans in the world', were the third worst behaved Premier Club, fourth overall 'losing out' to Coventry City for third place, in England.

Anyway, just something that annoyed me and continues to do so... Back to business, 'Kenwright OUT!!!'
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (28/2/07)

Season ticket price reduction

What's this 10% season ticket price reduction all about? For the current season, along with thousands of other committed Evertonians paying early, I paid £427 for my Lower Gwladys season ticket. For the 2007-08 season th,e price is £427, to be paid 4 months before the season starts! So I ask again, where is the saving? (apart from a possible inflation increase).
Frank Carse, Bury  (28/2/07)

Just like looking into a crystal ball?

Here is a link to a Guardian website article on Manchester City's current finanical hangover and the net effect of the rapid gain and loss of "happy clappy" new fans...it paints a picture of a lesser 'blue' club floundering in the shadow of their gargantuan 'red' neighbour - all this despite multi-million pound star signings,and a heavily subsidised move to a new modern statium with increased corporate revenues, etc...possible parallels anybody?
Joe Rourke, Dublin, Ireland.  (28/02/07)

Newton's Third Law

For every action (Doddy post) I will post an equal and opposite reaction.

Richard, bravo again to your continuing allegiance to your masters but I think you will find the price freeze will quickly appear Premiership wide in an attempt to stem the falling attendances and nothing to do with the managerial skills of your sweethearts, please learn to stop walking on your hands and talking out of your arse.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (28/02/07)

Reduced Season Ticket Prices

Just read the headlines on EFC's home page about the so-called price reductions for next season. Last year I bought my Lower Gwladys Street ticket in the two-week freeze for £424. Looking at the Echo tonight my ticket for next season will cost £474 (cost after the freeze) less 10% if bought in April - therefore cost £427. £3 more than last season. How is that a price reduction? Yet again, football supporters are getting conned!
Steve Rimmer, Liverpool  (28/2/07)

The Key?

There are a lot of keys being bounced around, but Everton dont need a key, they need the Holy Grail.
Stephen Williams, North Wales  (28/2/07)

The Key

I'd just about got my head around the fact that keeping clean sheets is the 'key'. Now we're being told the James Beattie is the 'key'! It's these kind of mixed messages that infuriate the majority of Everton fans. By all means search for the 'key' but don't assume that you've found it before you're pretty bloody certain! Apparently Chris Coleman thinks that Simon Davies is the 'key'...
Ben Howard, London  (28/2/07)

Don't sell to rich right-wing Americans

I'm plesaed to hear that David Moyes is against the trend of selling our clubs to rich, uninterested foriegh investors. Football is still the people's game and Everton is still a people's club.

The current trend is that you can't win things without Abramovic or some neo-con Americans putting their money in. This is a sign of the death of football as a people's sport, as members of the crowd, as people whose heart and soul is in football and their team. I'd rather be part of a 'small club' than a 'franchise'. To sell your soul ? and still maybe not join the top four because Villa, City, West Ham and many others are doing the same thing and there's still only space for four rich clubs in the top four ? is to give up on football as a part of our culture and heritage.

I was opposed to the Premier League. Like many others, I could see it wasn't really going to allow two bigs clubs in one relatively poor city. If our club is sold to neo-con America, it will no longer be our club.
Dave Boardman, Hebden Bridge, West Yorks  (28/2/07)

A big thank you to Bill and Keith

Allow me to be the first to congratulate Messrs Kenwright and Wyness on their magnanimous decision to lower prices for next season. This really illustrates once and for all that they both have the well-being of all Evertonians in their hearts. Well done, Bill and Keith - and a very big thank you from us all!
Richard Dodd, Formby  (28/2/07)

Everton videos

To Alan Burnham. What videos do you have of Everton in 62-63, 69-70, 84-87?

I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. The stuff that is on the market is not very extensive. Compared to the stuff covering the Premiership era, coverage of our best periods is pretty bare.

I've largely been a Moyes fan, because gone are the days when we competed against Leicester and Wimbledon. Under him, we compete against Spurs and Newcastle. But the defensive game has become too persistent, and like a lot of others the Spurs game broke the camel's back.

Moyes started at Everton wiith attacking football. We won 4 of our first 7 under him, after winning only 1 game in 3 months before his arrival ? and that a 1-0 vs free-falling Sunderland at home.

The turning point seems to be the second full season (39 pts), and the following backs-to-the wall tiny squad, almost no forwards and a miraculous 4th. I think the 6-2 reverse at Newcastle had a long-lingering effect, too.

Boothroyd is spot on. Cracking into the big four even for traditionally big clubs is near impossible. But, I'm hoping for attacking football to be back in style, but is it any wonder some go 4-5-1, after Everton 05, Greece 04?
Roberto Birquet, London  (27/2/07)

Well he would say that.....

So clean sheets are the key... well HE would say that wouldn`t he? By my reckoning Van der Saar has only managed ten of those to Howard`s twelve but much as I dislike the Mancs, only a football illiterate would prefer our brand of football to theirs.

The trouble with Moyes is that he sees EVERYTHING from his perspective as a defensive `expert`. Until he is mature enough to embrace the more constructive parts of the game he will remain, as Everton will, an `also ran`.
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (29/2/07)

Season Tickets & 4000 Restricted Views

Fair Play, I say; to Everton Football Club for offering not only a reduction in season ticket prices, but also a freeze on last season's tickets over a decent period of time. Only the likes of Bolton and Man City have publically offered cheaper tickets (and I feel that's only because their average attendance are poor).

But I want to query these 4000 restricted view seats which obviously affect our income and capacity. Surely not all of these 4000 seats are completely restricted. Surely they aren't all directly behind a pillar where you can't see any of the game. When I have sat behind a seat labelled "restricted" it normally consists of a corner flag, edge of box, or centre circle being hidden from view.

Why doesn't Everton put a considerable reduction on these seats in a bid to get more people into the stadium, increase matchday income and increase our average attendances? Surely having some money from these seats is better than no money, and don't forget the increased revenue in programme sales, and any food and drink purchases during the game. Instead of paying an average £30 for these seats, why not £15-20? A little compensation for these seats, I feel, wouldn't hurt the club at all.
Martin Roberts, Merseyside  (28/2/07)

Moyes: His own worst enemy

Why has David Moyes become so unpopular with a large contingent of fans? What has he done to deserve such critisism? Or is it what he hasn't done that attracts the critisism?

When he joined the club, the fans' expectations where at an all time low. All we had to look forward to was one relegation battle after another. It was probably more exciting but not very good for the faint-hearted, and also a far cry from our success in the eighties.

The club had recently gone through a damaging boardroom battle, as Bill Kenwright wasted £60M hard-earned pounds to buy out Peter Johnsons controlling share in the club. The future looked pretty grim, as Walter Smith gradually lost the plot. Then Walter Smith departs and enter David Moyes, the saviour.

So, admittedly, Moyes has taken us from an annual relegation contender, to a safe top-half club, in less than five years. He has gradually got rid of all the old deadwood and strengthened the squad. But he has still not won any trophies. So why is Moyes so unpopular with so many fans?

It is because Moyes has raised the height of the bar, to the extent that he has set the expectations of the fans at a much higher level. Instead of being happy with a secure Premiership status, the fans want more. The one year that we finshed 4th has done more damage than a lot of people think. It has set the standard that Moyes will have to achieve from now on. Anything else will be seen as a failure.

Raising the bar has made Moyes his own worst enemy.
Brian Baker, Aldershot  (28/2/07)

3-5-2 Debate

In some circumstances I think this would be a good bet. I don't think you would need pacey wing-backs necessarily either because then it would become 5-3-2 wouldn't it? (That said, Neville and Valente are both good at going forward and crossing a ball.)

You could see:

         Howard
   Hibbert Yobo Lescott
Osman Fernandes Neville Arteta
          Cahill
    Johnson  Anichebe/Beattie

working well as an attacking formation. Go for it Mr Moyes!!!!
Craig Taylor, Leicester  (28/2/07)

`It`s always been like this...`

I don`t particularly like the Everton of today. I don`t like the way it operates ? selling off everything that can raise a buck - or the people who are in charge. I saw through the manager`s "People's Club" line as a PR soundbite the minute he said it and view everything that comes out of his mouth (and his chairman`s) as twaddle.

So why am I still a season ticket holder who travels to at least two thirds of our away games?I can only guess at the answer to that one but I think it is mainly blind faith that one day things will get better and that the next game may be the start of that process.

My old man, God bless him, is fond of telling me `it`s almost always been like this`. Since the Second World War it`s mainly been a struggle. Only four League titles in sixty years, three FA Cups and a solitary European success. Nothing to show from fifteen years of Premiership action except fairly regular battle against relegation.

In truth it was much like this BEFORE the war with years of disappointment punctuated by the odd success. Everton`s history is really that of the `Great Survivors` ? living to tell the tale of more seasons in the top division etc, etc...

I think David Moyes is cast perfectly in the mould of many of his predecesors: Bingham, Lee, Kendall (II & III) and Smith. All decidedly average. He certainly doesn`t espouse the style of attacking play favoured by Carey, Catterick and Kendall I, but then how can he go for glory with an average of only £10M a year to spend, two-thirds of which he has financed from the sale of players?

So here we are with a hope of a rare stab at Europe and, no doubt, more disappointment in the autumn. Why do we do it? God only knows... but that`s our lot... it`s always been like this, you see!
Trevor Rawlings, Wavertree  (28/2/07)

Fans & Supporters ? A Definition

I note Steve Connor's submission about what he believes defines a fan or a supporter. I slightly disagree with his opinion and offer the following alternative;

Fan: Someone who follows a team's progress and delights in their success as a supporter does but does not offer any hard-earned towards that club. (So far we're not too far apart in definitions are we?)

Supporter: Someone who loves a club so much they are willing to invest money in it by any fashion. That does not have to be via ticket sales alone. Everyone wearing the royal blue in a street or pub promotes the club and keeps it at the forefront of others' minds. That is still support.

Because I DJ in Essex on a Saturday night and live in Peterborough, my opportunities to see us play are restricted to weeknight matches or away games. However, I purchase plenty of Everton products and go to whatever matches I can. I was as good as weaned on the terraces with my Dad taking my sister and me to every home game. I am passionate to the degree that a weekend can be made or destroyed by a result. That makes me (in my eyes) a genuine supporter, not just a fan - seemingly the derisory position between the two. Personally I am happy for us to have as many fans in their armchairs as possible for their enthusiasm alone can create more supporters.

On a different note, I am notice the constant reference to our history on this board. It is indeed golden and we should be incredibly proud of it. However, it does not entitle us to more of the same, if only it could! Let's not forget the likes of Blackpool, Preston, Huddersfield, et al. They all have a pedigree in their dim and distant past. What really galled me was to be at Old Tart Lane for the last few seasons and hear Surs fans regularly singing our 'If You Know Your History' song. And they have the cheek to call Scousers thieves!
Lee Mandaracas, Peterborough  (28/2/07)

People's Club?

Connor, I live in north Liverpool and the majority of people I know are Blues. I work in Widnes where the majority of the 40-odd workforce come from south Liverpool and there are as many Blues as Reds but with one main difference: the Blues are match going, to a man, the Reds have no match going 'fans' at all and it's not 'cos they can't get tickets. The only time in recent memory I can recall seeing more kids in LFC kits and more stickers in car windows, amazing how many Reds peeled off the 'old' sticker and replaced them with 'Istanbul' ones, is, surprise, surprise, when a trophy is on the horizon. Then it fades away until the next one.

No, sorry mate, getting off your arse and going to the game, despite what's on display, and not sitting at home watching the telly then trotting into work on Monday to tell your work colleagues how great it is winning 5 ECs etc doesn't quite add up to the same thing in my book.

By the way 10% of seats, that's 4,000, at Goodison are obstructed view, ie, the view of one or both goals is obscured. Do you think this may affect attendances?
Steve McBride, North Liverpool  (28/2/07)

Ian Mac

Chin up, Ian mate, you know you are well respected at Goodison for all you do. You're a top lad and I am suprised you bothered to respond to someone who obviously does not know the fanbase well. Keep it going, Ian ? best wishes for a speedy recovery for your mum.
Steve Lyth, Ellesmere Port  (28/2/07)

Progress

There's been a lot of debate recently about progress under Moyes, so I figured I'd throw my two cents into the ring. Basically this season I'd accept the following:

• 5th or 6th place in the league
• A positive goal-difference, preferably double figures
• AJ finishing with more than 15 goals

I think these are realistic targets given our current league position, the players at Moyes's disposal, and our run-in. Sadly the only thing I can see standing in our way is Moyes's tactical dourness ? I just hope and pray that he realises that we can actually play really good football when we get the ball down and pass it around.

Once this season is over, I'd like to see the targets above as a minimum for future seasons with the added ones of a decent run in at least one of the cups and of course a better standard/quality of football.
Robin Byrne, Dublin, Ireland  (28/2/07)

The boo boys

Or the knowledgeable fans or self proffessed guardians of our motto as they prefer to be known... Hope they noticed John Oster had a decent game last night, and remember how they systematically broke his spirit whilst playing for us... Ok, one swallow doesn't...
Tom Hughes, North Sea  (28/2/07)

Response to Connor Rohrer

As someone who went to school in the 70s, and with brothers up to 20 years older than me, I think I witnessed the change in tide of footy support in Liverpool. By the time I started school (1969), Liverpudlians had become the majority in the classroom (South Liverpool), I then went to secondary school in Everton, where I found it a much more even balance but still slightly in their favour.

When I told my older brothers about this they were amazed, since in their school days of the 50s and 60s they said it was always the reverse. LFC's obvious success really ate into our support, the massive reduction in the city's population did likewise.

At present, just like the team I think our support is punching well above it's collective weight... Everywhere I've worked I've found that practically all the Evertonians go the game whereas the complete opposite is true of the so-called Reds.

It's an important time for the club, because without some success soon, we will continue to shrink as the remnants of the older support go to the big Goodison in the sky. 30 odd years out of the last 40 being below your nearest neighbours is not sustainable!!
Tom Hughes, North Sea  (28/2/07)

Rent a Gob

Well, Gareth Hughes, I'm a Rent a Gob eh? People ring me ? I don't ring them on Everton topics. My only crime was not thinking properly after visiting my sick mother in hospital AND father in law for the last three weeks in Fazackerly and not telling the journo to do one, my mind was elsewhere in the car park. Now if you want to take issue with me I'll be in either the Brick or Oak on matchdays.

I hate cyber-warriors who don't know the half. It's at times like these I think of stopping helping others in the Everton community but why should I because of the Gareths in this world? I care about the future of our club and so along the way, for putting my head over the paraphat and doing something over the years, I get a Gareth Hughes every so often.

Gareth, start your own supporters group, take them on thirteen years of travel supporting the Blues through thin years, raise thousands of pounds for local charities every year, then come back and debate.

I despair sometimes of the Gareths of this world, I really do. It's all knock others who try and help fellow Blues. Why? There was no demo: read other boards through your embittered eyes.

You don't know the half of what I do for others quietly, so back off weirdo!
Ian Macdonald, Merseyside  (29/2/07)

3-5-2

Good to see some people actually supporting Moyes. Anyway, I have said before about us playing 3-5-2 so it will allow us to play more attacking football. We can play two upfront but can still pack the midfield so we dont get outplayed and Cahill can have the freedom to get forward. Tony Cottee was suggesting it in his column, I asked Sharpy and he said he didn't think we had the personnel to play that formation as we would need pacey wing backs. I would like to know what others think of this?
Robbie Gardner, Anglesey  (28/2/07)

The Power fo Positive Moaning

I admire the positive elements of Charlie Goften?s missive (?Moaning Club?) and applaud his delivering such a full-throated roar of support for the Blues even though he?s never seen them win anything. But I make a plea on behalf of the moaners.

Yes, I moan about Moyes, and I moan about the hideous lack of entertainment which characterises most of our performances. After the Spurs game, a part of me never wanted to watch the Blues again until he?d gone but last Saturday, when I could have been sat at home at 5:15pm in front of the TV, I was in a damp and chilly Vicarage Road shouting on the team.

Moaning about Moyes doesn?t preclude supporting the team when they take the pitch. There seems to be precious little internal pressure on Moyes to play positive, entertaining football so the notion that we silence the one source of critique which might nudge him in the right direction is hard to understand.

Like I said, full marks for Charlie?s sentiments but I hope he thinks long and hard about the notion that he?ll take points over performance any time. And another thing, what?s this your old man says about the past being over-rated? I?m not sure which particular past he?s referring to, but if it includes 62-63, 69-70 or 84-87 then I?m sorry, he?s talking bollocks. What graced Goodison Park in these times was a million miles away from what we see today ? and I?ve got the videos to prove it!
Alan Burnham, Liverpool  (27/2/07)

The People's Club?

I was talking to some of my friends yesterday and we were talking about the phrase "The People's Club". Are we really? I don't think so. I live in South Liverpool and the majority of people support Liverpool. It must be like ten Reds to one Blue. I'm not sure about North Liverpool. But I live in inner-city Liverpool and belive it is true.

You can say Liverpool have all the Norwegians, Irish etc but the fact is they have a larger fan base also in Liverpool. We average 36,000 a week and I am disgraced by this. An abusolute joke. All the fans that moan about history, loyal fans but if they are so loyal, where's the 4,000 rest? Please come to the match ? it is a matter of pride. Liverpool average 44,000 a week no problem and then the next day Cris Bascombe aknowledges this in The Echo. The truth is Liverpool are the People's Club.
Connor Rohrer, Toxteth, liverpool  (27/2/07)

The week that was

We often talk about turning points in seasons and we had quite a monumental week. Anyone who was at the game last Wednesday had a good understanding of what we wanted to be corrected by David Moyes. We are here to win football games not just win individual points. You do not win games by being defensive, only lose them through lacking courage. The top four teams are a different story and ?his ? tactics are effective for Everton as we stand. I don?t want to have to write that last sentence but it?s true. He tried to settle for a point and I didn?t like it. The win was there. I don?t boo but for once I felt it was fairly aimed by others.

David Moyes has rightly enjoyed majority fan support (in my view), he has diligently and painfully restored our hope of being able to challenge the current elite again. Along the way he has made numerous mistakes but has assembled a decent team when fit, is very credible in this league. You can assemble lots of positive points and negative points about this fella. We are on the map again (ish). I believe we should be doing better.

As for the majority of the media this week, what a bunch of tosspots! Not only have they got the mood of last Wednesday wrong but continued it into protests which did not exist. Categorically, not many want to see David Moyes sacked. There are a few that do. What I thought we saw was the crowd telling Davey, they disagreed and wanted him to go for the win. In short, we want Europe, the players want it and from the comfort of safety take a risk or two. We?ll take a loss after having given our best, but we don?t settle for second best. After all what else are we playing for?

We are in this together, and to not recognise how shared our vision of what we want for Everton, defies understanding of what happened last Wednesday. Although the media have done a great job in misunderstanding it!

I hope he realises from the comfort of a mid-table position, no cups again, he can take attacking risks and we?ll be with him. That?s what I wanted him to take from what happened. I hope it?s a culmination of thinking that will continue him further. There is no safety net if your fans turn against you permanently. In short, use the last 10 games to have a decent go and give young players some playing time.

As for Lawro telling Everton fans about our manager, do me a favour before I get abusive.
Eamonn Byrne, Shropshire  (27/2/06)

Do what?

In your response to my post about Foreign Money (yesterday) Michael, you implied you thought David Moyes could 'do it' with the resources he's got. Could you expand on that and tell us just what you think he will be able to do? At the moment he doesn't seem to be able to dish up a team that wins consistently enough (with the resources he's got) to win success, and that's after 5 years, so what is the 'it' he is going to achieve?

My post yesterday was not particularly a criticism of David Moyes in any case, it was a criticism of the belief, as he expounded himself, that Clubs can achieve success on a shoestring and on the passion of the Chairman(the Chairman who, by the way, sold Wayne Rooney to clear the Clubs debts!). If that is what he really thinks then he must be the only Premiership manager who thinks that way and that is why I doubt they were his own feelings.

Clubs cannot achieve success in the modern game if they cannot hold on to their Wayne Rooneys or sign up the Scott Parkers. They can't achieve success, or play decent football consistently if they can't even hold on to their Tommy Gravesens. So what exactly is David Moyes going to do with the resources he's got? Unless, of course we redefine success and consider Everton to be successful if we are no longer fighting relegation every season and playing in the Uefa Cup regularly.

As I said in my original post, that's improvement, not success.
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (27/2/07)

Foreign Investment

It troubles me that people are demanding that Bill Kenwright finds some oil billionaire or cash-rich sheik to take over the club. Do people honestly believe that tycoons are queuing up to purchase English clubs?! Do they really think that these people have more money than they know what to do with and, so they throw it into the transfer kitty?

I have grave suspicions about the motives of figures such as Abramovich. Is he doing it as a way of moving money out of Russia? Is it a way for him to become ingrained into the English ruling classes? God knows. Maybe it is just a plaything for him, but it really does seem incredible that he'd throw hundreds or millions of pounds down the drain (how much was Glen Johnson? £7 million?) with little hope of seeing any return on it.

The new owners of Portsmouth, United and Villa have been much more prudent, but I still see little opportunity for them to make a profit as the majority of clubs lose money. Magnusson at West Ham will see his money go up in smoke when the hammers finally fall through the trap door.

Am I missing a trick here? Is owning a Premiership club the 'must-have' accessory for the muli-millionaire? Is it all about kudos, profile and the challenge of trying to track the hardest league in the world? It may well be, but people with money are typically the most tight-fisted and I'm incredulous that someone such as Magnusson, who has built his fortune up during his life, would blow tens of millions of pounds for the sake of it.

And, what happens when they inevitably get bored of their new toy and decide to sell the family silver to recoup some of their losses (as Johnson did when he flogged Ferguson). If Abramovich pulled out of Chelsea, there would be no more Chelsea. It's not something that I'd like to contemplate for the toffees.
Simon Birdsey, Northwich  (27/2/07)

Fans vs Supporters

Does it matter if people go the match, have season tickets? Well, yes it does. I have no problem with people choosing to watch Everton from the comfort of the pub or their own armchair and of course plenty of contributors on here have no option for a whole range of reasons. But to suggest that actually attending the game is no different to sitting at home is bollocks.

Those who make a choice to pay to attend can be called supporters. Those who don't can be called fans. Is there a difference? Well, yes. If everybody chose the sit-at-home path then football would die. It is the people who attend games, shout, scream and, yes, boo, who can influence outcomes of games ? not those sitting at home. Why are we considering a 55,000 seater stadium? Because it will increase revenue, profile and standing if it is filled. It certainly won't help the club if we all stayed at home watching the telly every night.
Steve Connor, Liverpool  (27/2/07)

The Tortoise and the Hare

Although an avid reader of the mailbag over the past few years I have never actually contributed to the excellent banter which occurs on a daily basis, so I thought it best to broadcast my views on Everton, David Moyes and the future under the current regime.

When David Moyes was headhunted as Walter Smith's replacement I must admit that I was a little surprised. Here was a man managing my home town club Preston North End. Many of my friends were PNE fans and they would often regale tales of woe where they would dominate a team, score, then defend. Several times they would leak an equaliser and they would go home livid. None of this filled me with any optimism under his regime, but on closer inspection he had led PNE to be there or thereabouts in the play-offs and also was at the helm for there promotion to the second tier of English football.

So onto Moyes's 5 years at my beloved Everton. I think everyone can see that he has got rid of most of the deadwood at the club and is now some way to having a young, hungry, talented squad. Unfortunately this has come to the detriment of squad numbers and when injuries and suspensions kick in we feel it more than most other clubs. I still feel our strongest 11 is the 6th best in the Premier league, behind the obvious 4 and Spurs.

We may not be progressing at a speed that most of us would like, but we are progressing. IF we can get into Europe this season, we will have an all-singing all-dancing training complex to rival the best in Europe and this will help encourage more quality into the club whether they be Manuel Fernandes permanently, Kevin Nolan or a few youngsters. All this would be steady progress.

As for the way we play our football. Well, I must admit having been what can only be described as a pacey winger, I am not a fan of the way we play at all, but we are at least effective. When we sit back against teams like Man City and Spurs when they are begging to be beaten and draw/lose it sticks in the throat more because they were there for the taking and Moyes/the players bottled it. Yes I would like us to go out there an play the no holds barred passing game that Arsenal play and i think we are only a few players off being able to do that.

I believe the run in will be very interesting indeed. Will Moyes try to play the football we know we can play, or will he continue to play the mostly effective, but negative football we see most weeks? To be honest I'll take anything as long as it means we get into Europe; however if we do achieve this, Moyes must bring in Fernandes/Nolan/Barton to help the midfield and a striker to help Johnson, preferably with pace as it is painful watching Beattie playing on his own up front. He can't do it so why taunt the man. He has no confidence as it is.

I am happy with the slow and steady progression we are making but come next season, it is judgement time for me. Davey, I accept we are a stable club now and I thank you for that, but please, bring in the necessary people to play good football that the paying fans can appreciate.
Tony Bell, Preston  (27/2/07)

My Thoughts

Regarding the so-called improvement and advances we are making under David Moyes, I consider progress as a steady improvement of both our league position and the football that is played, little of which I have witnessed under him. Our league position fluctuates year upon year and the football we play is at best average and predictable which is why any manager with a bit of football nouse susses us out for what we are, one-dimensional with few options to fall back on when it goes tits up.

Moyes has had long enough to build a team that should be able to cope with most situations, but what we witness is inept substitutions and players being asked to play in positions that are alien to them (Spurs etc).

We do not play entertaining football for the most part and when we do (Watford first half) we revert back to the protect-what-we-have scenario. Look at the bigger picture, we have not come close to winning anything under Moyes, in fact we have not come close to even CHALLENGING for anything, if you call that improvement then god help us for the next 5 years.
Dave Lynch, Merseyside  (27/2/07)

Finch Farm Complex

While out with the missus on Sunday for a quick trip to Knowsley Safari Park, we seemed to get 'lost' and ended up on Finch Lane in Halewood... To my astonishment was the development works of the new Everton Academy and Training Complex! (I think the missus might have seen through this somehow as I got out my car to have a look through the fence!) I thought I must say that it is impressive. A really good looking development with a load of surrounding land...

I personally feel this development will have a greater impact on Everton Football Club than we think. It is what we have been missing now for years. It really looks world class, which is something we really haven't been able to say in relation to Everton for 20 years! (Apart from you-know-who).

I aggree whole-heartedly with people like Matty Mold on the importance of developing youth and training methods rather than 'waiting' for money. This complex will attract players (especially young), and help persuade players to stay who might be thinking of moving on (Arteta, Fernandes). Also I think we could see Moyes get his teeth into some real training and integration of youth and first team. And with the potential of the Tesco stadium (which I'm not so optimistic about), there is real potential for avenues for the sustainable development of the club.

I am honestly feeling good about the state of the club at present and can see a new chapter in Everton's illustrious history beginning. Oh, I can smell the Roses...
Jonno Field, Warrington  (27/2/07)

Reply to Michael

Thanks for your reply Michael. What I meant with "off the field" is the management and development of a club rather than the performances on it. As in Ferguson's story that it was 7 years before they received any silverware and this was achieved by grafting, poor performances, low income, but steady improvements. He came close to the sack after the 4th/5th season but the Man Utd board stood by him and look where he is now. Its a similiar story for Moyes coming into his 5th season, and its clear to see the progression and development the club has made in his tenure at the helm. I suppose my underlying point was querying why comments like "Ferguson's story is weak" etc can't be used as a valid point in the argument between Evertonians about the reasons to keep Moyes.

Everton have a rich history, unquestionable, but is it really harmful to us by looking at other clubs, their histories, and how they have done things to achieve what they have in the present day Premiership to aid and improve us for the long-term future?
Martin Roberts, Merseyside  (27/2/07)

'The Moaning Club'

Attention all bluenoses!!! We now have 10 remaining fixtures to go until the end of the season, can we all make a concious effort to get behind the team both at home and away! By all means write about the displeassure that Moyes has caused you in our battling for a European place (again)... talk about his poor signings... lack of strength and depth in our squad and blame Kenwright and Wyness for everything else, but come the games, let's really get behind the team and manager!

I take points over performance every day of the week. That maybe because I can't remember the 'good old days' because I wasn't old enough, but according to my old man they weren't as great as you are making out. We won then because we had a good team spirit with a good bunch of team players.

When I left the Sheff Utd game (when we played terribly against their 10 men and won 2-0) I felt much happier than our desperately unlucky defeat late on against the champions! Moyes has brought something which has been lacking for 20 years. A very solid defence! As a result we have conceeded less and gained more points. Let's give him a break as so far no one has mentioned any solutions to his tactical decisions. I can't believe how fickle everton fans are. He made a poor substitution late on Wednesday and you could be fooled into beleiving he had murdered James Vaughan. It was dissapointing for sure, but not as dissapointing as forgetting what he has done SO FAR a this club.

Lets not become 'the moaners club', leave that to the other lot across the way. Onward Evertonians, dont let your hearts be low, remember that our Song for Europe's, WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED
Charlie Gofton, Liverpool  (27/2/07)

Let Moyes do his job!

Thankfully a semblance of balance has returned to this letters page after the knee-jerk reactions of last week. It was once said that a week is a long time in politics, well in football three days is even longer in that despite the loss to Spurs, we actually ended the week in an arguably stronger position.

One of the things that annoys me about people calling for the managers head are those that say 'but who would we replace him with'. Well maybe they should allow themselves the thought that that is because the right man is doing the job in the first place. Now then get off his back, get behind the team and let Moyes do his job!
Martin Doherty, Ashton-in-Makerfield  (27/2/07)

We cannot compete

Michael, I've read this site for a long time and you have gradually lost the plot: "Based on the players he has and the games he has failed to win we really should be fourth or even third." There is no way that our current team could consistently compete with the top four. We are gradually building up a good team with talented players but let's be honest, is Cahill as good as Gerrard? Is Fernandes as good as Fabregas? Is Johnson as good as Henry? Is Arteta better than Alonso? Without some serious spending over 3 or 4 seasons we're not going anywhere.
Philip McAoy, Belfast  (27/2/07)

Now Warnock is at it

Did anyone else see or hear Neil Warnock's comments after their game against Liverpool at the weekend? After Gerrard once again threw himself to the ground to win a penalty, Warnock stated after the game, 'God help us next week when we play Everton with Andy Johnson!'

Surely this pleb should be hit with some sort of charge! Another manager criticising AJ is just not on and this comment can be construde as influencing referees as not to give a penalty, if anything should occur, to us....
Paul Henshaw, Liverpool  (27/2/07)

Tim Howard = Legend

David Moyes predicts Tim Howard will become a Goodison great. Turner and Ruddy must love that.
John Cottee, Romford  (27/2/07)

PR boys in Moyes's ear

The PR boys have certainly been in David Moyes`s ear since last Wednesday. Now it`s all about wanting to compete in Europe year on year and claiming `we won a trophy of sorts when we got there two years ago`.

I just wish all this self-promotion and joint adulation with the Chairman could be supported by some solid achievement and half-decent football. I think too many people have been prepared to paper over the cracks on the evidence of half a game against the wooden-spoonists.
Tony Radford, Neston  (27/2/07)

Quality?

I would love to see Everton play the sort of attacking attractive football that Arsenal play. I would love to see Everton play pass & move football. However, if Everton play defensive, unadventurous football and get into Europe, is that really such a bad thing?

The fact of the matter is, while we have our best squad for years, we do not have the players to go out week after week and play gung-ho up-and-at-them football. If we did that we would get thrashed by the big 4 and possibly some others.

Moyes is a good manager and we should get behind him. And please don't refer back to Wednesday's match against Spurs as a reference point as you have already done on numerous occassions!
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (27/2/07)

Nil Satis Nisi Opitimum

I am very concerned about the seemingly hoards of blues who write in here prepared to settle for mediocrity. That is a losers mentality. The first decade of the new millenium is almost over (well 3 years left) and we have won NOTHING. Us fans deserve our big day out, a trip to Wembley ffs! We are a great set of fans and we deserve a memorable day out.

All this rationalization with regard to how we were before Moyes is bullshit. It doesn't work like that; here and now, people and a glance into the near future. I cant ever see us winning something under Moyes, his cup record tells its own story. I won't accept that there is not a better manager out there that we are capable of luring in the summer. There simply is.

If we were offered a better midfielder than Carsley in the summer we would take him right? It should be like that with managers too. Unfortunately it's not. If zi was chairman I wouldn't stop until we were nothing but the best.
Robbie Muldoon, Liverpool  (27/2/07)

Fans Fickleness

Firstly, I stand utterly corrected with an earlier rant. Everton won nothing in the 40s & 50s, but I would argue we were the best team in the UK prior to WW2, and we all know how WWs tend to disrupt our trophy hauls... Moyes is saying stability brings success, and he has brought stability to the club along with the present Board. He has delivered a number of decent moments in recent history. This is not about raised expectations. The present club management & board have not suddenly waived a 5-year magic wand and made us all feel we should be playing flowing football and winning trophies.

This is about a club that has more than a history to protect. It is about a club that does not need to throw on defenders at home when we're playing a team with a poor away record. This is about the way the game is played, and how Everton should be playing it. I do not agree with those who say we should pat ourselves on the back, applaud the manager, thank our lucky stars that we have not sold out to some US/Russian quango. Why? Because we're competing for 6th? Trying to get into the top 4? Not progressing in any cup competition for a decade?

I'm afraid I can't accept that. I think that Moyes and the present board have taken us as far as they can. It is NOT about the investment alone. It is a state of mind, it is the way in which we play the game. Play to WIN, not to draw, not to eek out results so that we can crawl our way up the league.

Five years is a hell of a long time in football, and let me remind everyone, in that five years how many players that we have failed to sign, that chose other clubs, and more importantly left the club to seek fame and fortune elsewhere. In the time that the present regime have been in charge, something far more insidious has occurred, something that has become a reality as it has been allowed to. Everton are a selling club, a second-tier premiership team. Any of the top four, or any other Euro-Club comes calling for anyone of our players, Everton will sell, not through choice, but will HAVE to sell.

This is nothing to do with changed expectations under Moyes, follow the logic, if that were the case, no one would leave.

Far more telling, is the notion that we should somehow be thankful of the state of affairs, and that somehow I'm supposed to blindly follow and support the club. Wait a moment, how many trophies have we won since '95? How many league titles have we been chasing? How many stadium sites are we moving to? How many investors have we got lined up? How many players are we bidding for? How much debt is the club in?

Liverpool can say we are a small club. Moyes and the board's response, a cheeky moral high tone, but let's face it, the Echo article might as well announce it: We are a smaller club, and we are trying to play with the big boys.

It is not about delusion, it is not about accepting our position. It is about why I support the club. To play with passion, guile, pace, a never-say-die attitude and a team ethic with a slice of flair. TO WIN TROPHIES.

Are the players at the club better than five years ago? Or has the manager run out of ideas, and the board run out of money to take us to the next level that we all know we SHOULD be at? If not, and I've had that suspicion since the Champions League/Uefa exit, then my vote's with the Moyes Nevermore camp. No offence, appreciate the effort, applaud the fact that we've not been relegated, but Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. The club is bigger than any player, chairman or manager etc.
Ray Mia, London  (27/2/07)

Webmaster Bias?

I have been pleased to note on the messageboard a number of messages suggesting support of David Moyes. Recently, the postings have seemed to be almost exclusively cries to get him out.

I am by no means a Moyes apologist. Statistics can be presented for and against his continued reign, such as our finishing more frequently in the top half of the Premiership than prior (heading for our third time in four full seasons) balanced with as many losses as wins and a poor cup record ? even considering unfortunate draws.

My real disappointment has been with the responses to posters on the board. Yes, webmasters have the right of reply and can offer a counter argument to postings. It is your site, and a fantastic one at that. However, where is the balance?

I am not by any means suggesting you should betray your own opinions. Simply that you should be balanced (perhaps even polite) when using your right to reply. Your opinion is entirely valid and I fully appreciate many of your frustrations. I would just like to read that you are capable of doing the same with those who have a different viewpoint. After all there is the possibility that both, or even neither, of you are right but we are all united in our desire for success.
Lee Mandaracas, Peterborough  (27/2/07)

Our Season's Objective

This season has been full of highs and lows as every season is, so let's judge on a season's results. Think back to the start of the season and where did we expect to be at the end of it?? For me it was European qualification and a good cup run. We all know what happened to the cup runs so that make Euro qualification a must. I will judge Moyes on what we have at the end of the season and if that is nothing then he should go.
Dan Dogan, Bangor, N Wales  (27/2/07)

No Go Moyes

Moyes should stay, he's doing a good job. Ok sometimes he makes bad decisions but who here can honestly say that they haven't? We can't sack a manager who's on the verge of taking us into Europe.

One thing I don't agree with is this whole 40-point mark then kick on from there. We should not be thinking about relegation anymore, we are too good to go down ? far better than 13 teams and on par with a couple (Spurs) then there is the "big 4" but the points difference isn't huge this year...

Come on, Blue Boys, let's get our passports out.
Mikey Cummins, Sussex  (27/2/07)

Underming the club - Michael's Reply

Michael, I just want to run something by you to get your thoughs.

You mention in the stated reply that "You claim it is undermining the club but if the examples given by some (Kendall I, Ferguson) are to be noted, this is part of the purification by fire." Obviously that is all in the past, that is all History. Tell me, why can't we learn from the past of other clubs?

Evertonians sing and are quick to throw the 'we are a big club because of our past' line when it suits us but are quick to dismiss the history of other clubs who were in similiar situations (ignoring the fluctuation of the value of the pound sterling) and have been successful by using the same off-the-field tactics Everton are using now. Why is that a bad thing? It's one thing I struggle to comprehend at the moment, the whole 'Ferguson, Kendall I argument is weak'.
Martin Roberts, Merseyside  (27/2/07)

Fairness

Thank you, Michael, for your courteous response. Yes, I was there at the Spurs game and Yes I didn't agree with Moyes tatics or substitutions. I also disagreed with the foul abusive invective directed at Moyes and players by so-called Evertonians. No doubt they have the right to express an opinion no matter how ignorant but good job they didn't support Moyes, eh, Michael?

I am sorry I credited you with the ability to orchestrate an anti-Moyes campaign I should have known you don't have the ability. But perhaps if you read your responses to anyone who said a good word about him over the last three or more months I could be forgiven to thinking you set the tone for the rest of the Moyes anti-brigade.
George Carroll, Bramhall  (27/2/07)

The Blues Delusion

Whenever someone puts forward an opinion in defence of Moyes, regardless of whether they offer valid evidence to support their claims or not, they are labelled as 'apologists' by the esteemed editor. To me the word 'apologist' suggests someone who is defending the indefensible, blindly following dogma. But it's quite clear to me that the editor is defending a dogma of his own construction, based on wishful thinking and false assertions:

• Cherished Dogma 1 - The current Everton squad is capable of challenging the big four if only they were coached correctly.
• Cherished Dogma 2 - It is possible to improve year on year, even with limited resources.
• Cherished Dogma 3 - Moyes is tactically naive/inept.

At first they appear as quite reasonable assertions, but examined more closely, they turn out to be at best half-truths and at worst simply incorrect.

It is possible to coach a player to get the best out of him, but no less than uber-coach and paragon-of-management Arsene Wenger has stated that the fate of a player is decided by the age of fourteen. A player's abilities consist of talent (natural ability) and skills (learned techniques). Skills can be improved by coaching, but it is impossible to create even a half-decent footballer from a talentless oaf. The fact that outstanding talent is such a rare commodity creates the billion-dollar market in players such as Henry and Ronaldo. Wayne Rooney was a one-in-a-million talent and we lost him to a richer club.

So demanding Moyes to perform the impossible and miraculously imbue the likes of Naysmith and Carsley with god-given talent to match the Ashley Coles and Claude Makeleles of this world is unfair to say the least. We have to buy talent like everyone else, and unfortunately we don't have the means to control the market.

The second miracle the editor demands Moyes to perform is to keep improving year-on-year. Even with the limitless oil wealth of the world's largest country behind him, Mourinho has failed to win the Champions League, and this year he has slipped to second in the Premiership. Is he a bad manager? No he's not. Despite Chelsea's wealth, he is just as susceptible to the fickle hand of fate as everyone else. If John Terry and Peter Cech become injured at the same time as Manchester United hit form then there's nothing he can do about it. Once you've reached your potential that's when the real hard work begins. You have to maintain your form against tough opposition constantly wearing you down. Not easy, but Moyes is having a decent stab at it.

The third and final point of dogma held dear by the editor ? and the hardest to counter ? is Moyes' tactical ability. No fair-minded person expects a manager to be infallible, obviously he's not. He makes mistakes and his biggest fault is his lack of faith in the squad outside the first eleven. But the fact that that a so-called 'apologist' can admit this in the face of the assertion that a manager can be infallible, highlights the dogmatic approach of the editor in attacking our manager. By the way, I personally believe his tactical ability is pretty good. On his day, he's capable of routing lower-league teams and stifling title contenders.

Anyhow, I'll summarize for those of you who have made it this far. The editor of this page, I believe, in attacking David Moyes, has constructed a position based on false and ill-conceived assertions that he dogmatically clings to with all the faith of a religious zealot, whilst glibly accusing the 'apologists' (his word not mine) of doing the same. If anyone has any apologizing to do then it's him.
Steven Dawkins, Cambridge  (27/2/07)

Yes, seventh in the League

David Moyes has taken this club forward. There is no gainsaying that. People say we were fourth three years ago but, let's be honest, we were incredibly lucky to be in that position and our experience the following season in Europe proved that to be so.

Our position today is a much more secure one. The quality of players Moyes has brought into the club makes me proud: Howard, Yobo, Lescott, Arteta, Cahill, Fernandes, Johnson. I suggest any club in the Premier League would be happy to take any one of those off our hands.

Needless to say, they were not all acquired in the same season. Over the last few years, Moyes has set about building a young and talented team. I suggest the job is not yet finished but the writing is on the wall. Another class striker, two really top-notch full backs and say another class midfielder. What would we have then?

In a season or two, I do wonder how the young Icelander, Bjarni Vidarrson, James Vaughan and possibly da Silva maybe next season, will fare. I do think on the playing side, we can be much more positive than so many contributors to this board make out.

As for investment, one would think its so easy to drum up the odd billionaire or two who wants to invest in a football club, particularly in a city where there is already one highly successful one. Its not as if Liverpool can be described as a 'big' city. I live on the outskirts of Manchester. The catchment area for the big Manchester clubs is around 2/3 million yet Manchester City, like us are struggling to find a rich sugar daddy.

Keep the faith, you 'Blues'. All is not lost. Our path ahead is not strewn with roses but slowly and steadily we are going forward.
Tim Lloyd, Stockport  (27/2/07)

Matty Mold's Investment Advice

I thought Matty hit the nail on the head. Someone coming in with a one off investment of £20M or £30M in the team (this is on top of buying the club), will not make us world beaters and will only put the club back to the start of yet another 5-year plan as a new owner / manager combination take time to fashion a new team in their image.

Moyes has done a lot in the last five years, we are more stable, have a younger squad with more potential, but we do need to move onto the next level. Can Davey take us there? Well so far he's had a few years of ups and downs, but those who complain that 7th is no better than we were five years ago are letting their prejudices blind their eyes to the improvements all the other teams have also made over the last 5 years (and those who have failed in that time), most of them with more resources than us.

But last Wednesday proved that Davey needs to move the team onto the next level. If he wants us to be a regular in Europe then we need to beat the likes of Spurs, either at home or away (or at least not be afraid of them).

It's worth remembering that, over the last 5 or even 10 years, no club other than those in the "CL members club" has been a regular in Europe. So it's a big ask for him to do it, but he feels he's up to the job and he has the backing of the board, so here's his chance to show us exactly how far he has moved the club on, not just in terms of league position, but also in terms of performance on the field.
James Lawson, Douglas, IOM  (27/2/07)

Micheal's response to George Carroll

Unfortunately the attacks/criticism of Moyes is no longer taking a blanced view, I am sick of reading how as we should be higer in the league and how Moyes has no tactical sense etc, By all means criticise when he makes poor substitutions but I feel that there is no longer a balance and you won't give the man credit when he gets something right, which this season is more often than not.

We sit comfortably in the top ten, yes it would be nice to be higher but since we last won the league finishing in the top ten has been a luxury. If we do finish 6th which is within our grasp then I'll be happy, a bit more consistency and we'll be above Bolton in 5th and that for me is as good as it gets unless we can unearth some world beaters from the academy. This season has been a progression from last, we've done pretty well and I think we are starting to get the base of a nice little side.

I'm not a Moyes apologist and nor am I anti-Moyes, whilst he's manager of this club I'll back him; yes, at times he frustrates me with his decisions, the way the team play and some of the results but equally he's thrilled me with some of the decisions he's made, the way we've played and the results we've had.

My 5 year report would be: tries hard, shows glimpses of outstanding ability but must be more consistent and take more risks. Overall B-
Chris March, London  (27/2/07)

Respect

Show some respect Michael to our long serving supporters. Your dismissal of their 'credentials' is a disgrace. Most senior blues are long suffering but compared to most clubs, especially the filth across the park, are very knowledgeable in their understanding of the game and how the manager should coach and send out his team. Hence the reaction last Wednesday.

So stop taking the moral highground with the oldtimers. We are a club steeped in history and supporting Everton isn't just about the present, it also includes the past and the future. So all experience of Everton is relevant and all sensibly argued views have equal value.

On another matter, you claim that the opposition can only have a say when they have the ball!!! What nonsense. Don't you think closing down space, harrishing the player on the ball, and maintaining tactical formation have any influence on the game?? The 'Dogs of War' were more effective when the opposition had the ball than when they held it themselves!!

And progress is also relative. We can only improve at our own rate. If other teams are improving at a greater rate, say due to the injection of investors money, then our own progress may go unseen as relative to others, our progress is at a lesser rate.

But hang on, our progress is steady and less risky than others who sell themselves out to unknown sometimes faceless investors. I am (fairly) happy with progress under Moyes, will you still decry progress if we finish 5th this term 'because we finished 4th in 2004'?

Get real Micheal, acknowledge 'real' progress when you see it. Come on you Blueboys.
Kristy Smith, Crosby  (27/2/07)

Boring Bias

Can one of you please show me where in the linked article, or in fact any time David Moyes, has said he does not want money and he wants a small squad? In the linked article what he actually says is the exact opposite. How exactly can you say the squad size is of his choosing?

Some of you seem to have a very mixed up idea of Everton's standing in the national game: we are not at the moment an attractive prospect to investors, that is a fact, a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless.

We actually have a good chance of finishing 5th or 6th, is that not good enough for you? do you honestly believe we should be in the top 4? How about some realism and some recognition of the job Moyes has done? No - probably not.
John Furlong, Bootle  (27/2/07)

Half-full!

Dan Parker; My glass has always been half-full, you can't support the Blues for years without a soupcon of optimism, it's just that often as not the football in it tastes like cats piss... As to the mini-debate re history, yes we've got some, gallons of the stuff, more than most, in fact some of it of the highest vintage (some of the poorer years are now badly corked and undrinkable).

The whole point of history, however, is to remember it and where applicable, learn from it... not to live in the past. Living in the past seems to use up, if you let it, an awful lot of the present. Which is where you build the future.

I think this year's vintage of 'Moyes et Kenwright' will end up in the bargin bin, if you'll forgive my pretentious little whine...
Derek Thomas, Auckland, New Zealand  (27/2/07)

Underming the club

I was at Blackpool in ?66 when Alex Young was dropped and Harry Catterick was kicked ? although I never saw it. I protested outside Goodison when Alan Ball was sold in '71. I tossed my cushion after the Coventry match in '83 (I think... or was it '82?). I could go on and on, but I have a voice in this game because I have lived the pain and gain.

All that said, this ?Moyes has to go? crap has to stop? it is undermining our club. We are seventh in the Prem, one point behind sixth and Europe; we have got at least five full-time internationals in our side; we have spent £50M over the last five years on players, the top 4 spend that every year. Besides the top 4 and Spurs, we play the best football in the Prem (it may be crap but it is the Prem!!!).

While I agree with you about Kenwright, I know that the last 11 games matter and if you are an Evertonian let's sort this crap out in the summer and let's get behind the team. This maybe a very simple view but it is VERY important that every Bluenose support the club and get this club forward, PLEASE!!!
John Gorham, Scottsdale, AZ, USA  (26/2/07)

Hangin On

Somewhere there is an Echo photo of myself and others at Goodison with a placard that says, IF DAVY GOES I GO. Sadly, that Davy did go... yet, 50 years later and if only in spirit I am still at Goodison. Old timers would know the Davy I refer to was my childhood idol, Davy Hickson. If I was to hold aloft another placard this week it would carry the same words, yet, as with all those years ago if the worst came to the worst, or, as some would have it, best came to the best Davy Moyes went, my heart would still be at Goodison.

All around, we see clubs desperately placing themselves and their supporters into the hands of carpetbaggers whose only real interest in football is how much profit they can make out of it. When world finance suffers its next period of depression and banks call in loans that bought football clubs, what happens then to all the 'palaces of dreams'? In the absence of a sugar daddy, Davy Moyes, in the short term is our best hope of competing with the big boys. In the longer term, we might end up with a secure base that leaves others in our wake. Currently I would describe our situation as a bit like holding a ginger haired Tiger by the tail.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (27/2/07)

Back Moyes and Kenwright

I feel a lot of people are forgetting what David Moyes and Bill Kenwright have done over the past few seasons. Everton had been in oblivion since the 1980s and now the club is gradually but surely moving forward. Each season the first team is getting stronger, Bill is a true blue who only does what's right for the club, rather him than some foreign businessness who wants a hobby... Up the toffees.
Simon Mumby, Grimsby  (26/2/07)

Moyes

I can't believe the latest load off bollocks to come from Moyes. One thing stuck out for me were he says "I don't think we will be left behind by other Premiership clubs because of our history" ? what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Can anyone explain what our history has got to do with the here and now?
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (26/2/07)

Fairness?

Michael, you have orchestrated the Moyes Out campaign and ensured anyone who says a word of support for the Manager is dismissed with snide comments and the cry for better football trotted out as justification.

I wonder whether you and the rest of the anti-Moyes brigade actually go to Goodison or are the views formed from the television. The season ticket holders around us want results first and fourmost ? if that comes as a result of playing like the rest of the Premiership teams with the exception of Arsenal and at times Man Utd then so be it. We saw what happened at the weekend a good footballing side beaten by the pragmatic Champions.

I can go back further than most of your contributors having supported the Blues for over 60 years the good and bad years. Now we have the best bunch of players for years, stability and credit for that to Moyes. Yes, I would like to see flowing football every week but that is a rare sight these days from any team. So can we stop the carping and get behind the team.
George Carroll, Bramhall  (26/2/07)

Beattie ? Is Anyone Buying it???

Two games into his 'latest' comeback and the spin doctors are at it again. 'one goal will spark it', 'work rate much improved', 'James scores for fun in training.' Well I'm not buying it, and I'm sure that any blue with half and idea of what's important in the modern game isn't either. I honestly did back him when everyone first got on his case, but enough is enough. This is the Premier League in this country if not the world; if you're not blessed with pace, exquisite first touch is essential ? Tommy G & even Leon are examples of fellas who can survive because of it.

Look at the Arsenal kids: they play the way they do because they have great touch and movement. Our 'Big man' has neither, so what ultimately happens? We give the ball back to the opposition too easily and fear the worst in the stands.... In the last two games, he's run around gamely and put a couple of good shifts in, but he hasn't stretched what could be deemed as two of the worst centre-back partnerships in the league.

Bless him, he seems a really nice guy, but this is Everton and he isn't living up to the Latin....
John Cotton, Wirral  (26/2/07)

Simon Amble's letter

...hit the nail on the head.

Moyes's tactics against Tottenham we're appalling and I hope to god he learns from the crowd's reaction.
Ronnie Mukherjee, Merseyside  (26/2/07)

Video Training

Now that we have reached our goal of 40+ points and safety from relegation, I would seriously ask Mr Moyes to consider trying the following experiment for the remainder of the season:

Make all the players watch videos of Arsenal playing their football and follow that up with videos of Everton doing their thing. See how many of the players can spot the difference between passing the ball on the deck for almost all of 90 minutes and the alternative of humping the ball aimlessly in the air.

Ask those who can spot the difference to say which method of progression is more pleasing on the eye and generally more productive. Invite those who choose the earth-bound game to return in the afternoons to practise this new skill and reward those who master the art with longer and better contracts. Those who cannot spot the difference or who choose the aerial route should be shown the door as soon as possible.

Unless you do this we shall never regain our right to use the motto. The future is staring everybody in the face... you don't need loads of money to train people to play the beautiful game beautifully.

ps: If the Manager hasn't got the heart for such a task, ship him out and start all over again.
Brian Finnigan, Liverpool  (26/2/07)

John Moores

Spot on, Alan Langford. The pointless rose-tinted nostalgia about the glory years gets us absolutely nowhere. John Moores loved the club but he left it at the top of a slippery slope. Others have made bigger mistakes since, but it is wrong to refer to Moores's Everton utopia as if it is some implicit criticism of Moyes and the current owners.

We do not have a divine right to top the league or play spectacular football, however much we'd all like that to be the case. As it is, we have made considerable progress under Moyes and I'm confident he has what it takes to take it to the next level.
Brian Richardson, London  (26/2/07)

Investment etc!

I just don't buy that investment is the key to a successfull football team. I was always of the opinion that players can be coached to be great, rather than just bought for millions and expected to be great! Yeah, I know that there needs to be a certain degree of natural talent but we are talking about top-flight footballers here ? why can they not play good football and, more to the point, good winning football?!?

I understand that at Everton progress without substantial financial investment will be slower than working with our current crop of players and coaching them to be better, but my frustration is that I'm not sure I see such evidence of said coaching! David Moyes has done a lot of great things for our club: we seem to have stability, a great work ethic, team spirit, younger squad, and a squad with more potential than I have ever seen at Everton... but it really is time for Moyes to up the game, to create a style of play which is not based on being hard to beat but to attack, entertain, and to win!

I like Moyes and I hope he is a success, because that would mean Everton are, and I am still willing to give him time and the benefit of the doubt, but as we realistically have little to play for now this season I would like to see him experiment and build the foundations for next season, where I think he will be judged!
Matty Mold, North Wales  (26/2/07)

Away with that Foreign Money!

The first question that entered my head on reading David Moyes's latest pronouncement was , 'Whose words are these?' Why do I get the feeling that someone has asked him to say that... or am I being too cynical?

Nobody doubts the 'genuineness' of the current regime at Everton Football Club, it's not that that worries us, it's their competence we're concerned about. So Bill Kenwright is at every match is he? Well, Nero was in Rome when the city burned to the ground and I'm sure he loved the place in his own way but that doesn't reduce his culpability for the catastrophe.

Davey boy, there are not going to be any more Northamptons or Ipswichs nor perhaps even any more Leeds, Derby Countys,Nottingham Forests or more seriously for us, Evertons. No more Clubs that come along and shove the big boys aside for a year or two, let alone take their place in the long term.

Davey boy, the game has changed... and whether you like it or not it is now more about money than it ever was. That is why the big four remain untouchable, because football is now like a pig trough and the big boys will not let the runts in without a fight, and a dirty one at that (G14?). They gobble up the football resources ,shit them back into the trough after taking their cut and eat them all over again. It has almost become a Cartel, exclusive and self-protective.

The proof of the pudding? You have to look no futher than Chelsea. They were runts like us not so long ago. In fact, they were on the verge of collapse both on and off the pitch. Was it great coaching that made them huge? Was it a sudden influx of players who wanted to play for them because they liked Chelsea's style? Was it because the Chairman was there at every game? No, it was money. Was it because the regime were genuine and supportive to the manager? No, it was money? Only money gave Chelsea the muscle to get their snouts in the trough.

We may not like the real world of football any more than you do, Davey boy, but unfortunately, whether we like it or not, we all ? including Everton ? have to live in it. If your idea of success is challenging for Europe every year,it is not mine as an Evertonian. Challenging and playing in Europe regularly I would consider to be an improvement.... not success. Running round the pitch with trophies is success ? I know; I've seen it, at Goodison. Chelsea did it yesterday, and have for the last few years. Why when they had won very little for decades are they cleaning up now? Money?

Money doesn't ensure success because bad clubs and coaches can still cock it all up if they have all the money in the world. But in today's game nothing is so certain that only success and wages attract the best players and not necessarily in that order. If you can't pay the wages, you don't get the players, so you don't earn the success and therefore you don't get the money and... ad infinitum.

I cannot believe that a Premiership manager can actually pronounce that he is not concerned that he does not have the option of a reasonable budget to buy players, especially when the Club he manages had to sell the best player to have come through the ranks for decades because we could not offer him success or money. So if we can't buy who we want or keep who we have, where is the successful team going to come from Davey boy?

I do not believe David Moyes is as stupid as that and that is why I believe he is currently acting as an apologist and propagandist for the Club's hierarchy at the moment in the wake of the aftermath of last Wednesday night. Give it up Bill and just be an Evertonian again... I'll save you a seat.
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (26/2/07)

Progress

We've got the best goal difference outside the top four - currently +11. That is significant progress on last year when we couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo.

A lot of people fail to see us making progress or it's not fast enough ? utimately the league table is the reality but I believe things ARE moving in the right direction. I get hugely frustrated when we blow our chances to consolidate as with the Spurs game but these things happen, it's football. Did anyone see them demolish the team two places above us at the weekend?

We have a great new training facility soon which will help attract new players. Do we own it outright? Perhaps not, but how many of us own our houses outright?

I'll moan with the best of them after a shocking loss but you move on, you have to. Call me fickle perhaps but I've had enough of being a miserable Evertonian in the 90s - we were piss-poor then and I'm glad we're not there anymore.

So where do you stand ? is your glass half-full or half-empty?
Dan Parker, New York, USA  (26/2/07)

Fire in the belly?

Alrite guys, I might be reading too much between the lines here, but am I alone in thinking the comments made by Moyes today comes from a man who seems to have had a kick up the arse and finally got the old flame of ambition stirring again?

I just push this point forward because you can tell a noticeable difference in Moyes's comments post-match and pre-match. I think 3 weeks ago, Moyes angered and saddened a whole lot of us with the reply "I concentrate on relegation first, then we can look up the table to Europe, anything like that is a bonus", or words to that effect.

Fast forward 'til the present day, we see Moyes showered with angry words and actions from us fans, going ballistic at his atrocious tactics against Spurs, and now since Saturday we have had nothing but positive actions:

• Moyes plays an attacking formations, with TWO strikers.
• Moyes actually comes out and says we should beat Watford.
• Moyes plays up Europe, saying that we are aiming for 5th place this season.
• Moyes says Everton must/should qualify for Europe every season. No talk, of overcoming relegation first.

Is this the same man who we believed was the most dour and negative manager to cross Hadrian's Wall? I think, somewhere along the line, Moyes has decided after the abuse and "kick up the arse" he should go for it now.

Or the other highly unlikely option is that the Board have mentioned somthing to him, and now all of the sudden we get the positive reactions! I know it was only Watford but can any of us remember a time when Moyes started an away match with two strikers? I think not.

Maybe their is fire in the old belly once again, or maybe I read into things too much. Ignoring the debate of whether Moyes is a skilled manager or not, I believe he has suddenly now decided he wants to prove a point, finally opening his eyes to the outside world and returning to become the enthusiastic manager we first saw join the club in 2002. Anyone maybe agree?
Chris Platt, Crewe  (26/2/07)

Moyes (again!)

Declan Critchley sums it up perfectly for me. I'd love to see Moyes stay and succeed. I'd love to see good attacking football. But again, I'm not holding my breath for it.

Yeah, 4-4-2 worked for one half of football on Saturday. I'd love to see VdM play in place of Carsley, and Valente or Phil at left back with Hibbo at right back, that would be a talented team, with good attacking force. Give them a run and the two failures (VdM & Beattie) may get confidence to show Evertonians what they have shown in the past that they're capable of.

Wishful thinking? Maybe.
John Fowler, Liverpool  (26/2/07)

Apologise, why?

As I've posted previously, I am not currently clamouring for DM's head, preferring to wait to see what summer brings us. But as somebody who is against booing, usually because it's aimed at the players, I was actually supportive of those who did so because the target, for once, was not the players, who worked very hard in my opinion, despite poor tactics, but very rightly aimed at the people who find themselves in the very fortunate position of being able respond and alter the game 'plan' but were sadly found wanting.

So please don't apologise for giving a long overdue wake up call to the 'custodians' of our club. Whatever reasons are given, the only 'excuse' that holds any credence and one I think most fans understood, but didn't enjoy, was trying to shore up a wide-open midfield, which could have been more positively solved, as at Watford, by moving Carsley 20 yards forward. Protest at the right time, for the right reasons, and aimed at the right people should not require apology.
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (26/2/07)

Negative Footballl?

So it's negative football this season with little progress? Well, we have already bagged two more goals than the whole of last season and are only 8 points short of last season's total. I'll wager anyone that we'll finish with comfortably more than last term.

Yeah, the football isn't fantastic, who's is? Liverpool beat Sheff Utd and between the goals the footy was awful from both sides. In fact, I put some paint on the ceiling just to watch it dry!

So why are you so quick to denigrate Moyes's tactics? No manager, whoever they are, can suddenly turn our squad into fantasy footballers. Yes, its easy to say we should be able to knock the ball around the back then to midfield then back to the back (Zzzzzzzzz!!) we play a sometimes exciting high tempo game to take advantage of our style and formation.

And by the way, don't you think that the opposition has a say in the way we play? Do you think that the opposition are just gonna sit back and watch us play this pretty football?? Get real, the time players have on the ball in the EPL is less than the time it takes the knees to jerk following an Everton defeat.

So please, lighten up on Moeys already. There is steady progress being made this season. My money is on us finishing 5th. Any takers?

Come on the Blues!
Kristy Smith, Crosby  (26/02/07)

Where was the demo?

What happened to the demo against the Board on Saturday night? If rent-a-gobs like Ian MacDonald must insist on grabbing their five minutes of fame via the local media outlets, can they at least have the decency to follow through on their promises.

Kenwright really is the Teflon King when it comes to criticism. A big win against one of the worst sides I've ever seen and he escapes the wrath of angry fans once again. Lets face it, if we, as supporters are so content to sit there and do nothing to halt our demise, then surely we end up with the club we deserve.
Gareth Hughes, Liverpool  (26/2/07)

Moores no saint

What John Moores did or didn`t say is totally irrelevant to today`s Everton. In those days, he owned the trainset and, in my view, eventually ran it off the Pier Head. I have always believed he had a reponsibility to ensure that the future of the Club was in safe hands. Leaving his shares to be split up amongst his clan only served to hasten Everton`s demise as a BIG BIG club. Please, no more of this starry-eyed nonsense.
Alan Langford, Heswall  (26/2/07)

Time to change my habits

Young Sean Cannon does right to point out that Everton have been operating at a pretty low level for the past 40 years. I must admit to believing we`d outstripped the other lot a little more than four times but that`s a pathetic record by any standards.

Some sage once wrote `there is no joy in growing old`,and I could add `particularly if you`re an Evertonian!` It`s the lack of hope that things will ever really change that gets to me and the smug self-satisfaction of Kenwright and Moyes (as well the rubbish football) does nothing to make the suffering any more tolerable.

By the time the club moves to Kirby, I shall have clocked up 70 years of service ? and about 60 years of pain. A good excuse to change my habits, I feel!
Len Arthur, Fazakerly  (26/2/07)

Lessons learnt?

After all the crap and 'should he stay, should he go' debate of last week, myself included, I would just like to comment on how I saw things for the Watford game.

I didn't think I would see another '4-4-2' formation this season and was pleasantly surprised with the team selection. The key, as I saw it, and mentioned in previous posts, was to ensure that Carsley played alongside his central partner, not his mid 5 role 20 yards behind him, which he did, allowing support for the forwards and not conceding the midfield due to lack of numbers. This showed in the first half performance, with chances to seal the points in the first half, yes I know it's only Watford but a potential banana skin nontheless. They were always going to have a good go in the second half with nothing to lose but we still managed to create chances and end up with a cracker from Ossie.

Basically, well done Moysie and the boys, a positive forward step, let's keep it going.
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (26/2/07)

No apology

So a win on Saturday makes everything right again and we should all be apologising to Moyes for upsetting him! Don`t make me bloody laugh, he only sent out that team on Saturday because the crowd got on his back and the result was achieved against a side on par with last season`s Sunderland.

Rave reviews for Beattie notwithstanding, I still see us with only half a side of other than ordinary players. Moyes is still as poor a manager as he was a week ago. There will be no apology from me!
Ned Tranter, West Derby  (26/2/07)

Brief note from a Watford fan

Just saying fair play to the Everton fans on Saturday at Watford. Some tunes I hadn't heard at a match before and no abuse about your going down etc... (except late on after provocation). Also highly amusing ditty about Stephen Gerrard as well! Much better attitude than some I've seen.
Tim Ives, Herts  (26/2/07)

I`ll kiss your`s if........

The `love in` between David Moyes and Blue Bill gets more incestuous by the day. Although I suspect most of the unctious crap the manager spouts is scripted for him by the PR department, he really can`t have it both ways. If he is genuinely `happy to work within the budget` then he shouldn`t simultatiously whinge about `only having a small squad to work with` and `only being able to get one or two players in each year.` There can be no doubt that these two were made for each other-mutual survival is their only goal!
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (26/2/07)

Same old same old?

Just read Steve Callahan's piece on Moyes's quotes.

To trawl through all these quotes ? many where the man is possibly having to trot out something to the press out of duty ? picking out whatever suits, is spiteful and, despite the obsessiveness of it, lazy journalism. There's a fine line between considered criticism and character assassination. This piece crosses it.

Also I have to lend my weight to the likes of Jamie Rowland when he posts in support of Moyes and gets battered for it on a regular basis. Stating your approval for someone whilst admitting they are not perfect doesn't make you an 'apologist' ? it's ironic that the realistic concessions Moyes defenders make have been crystallized into a fairly snide labelling for them ? as if Moyes could only be defended with blind ignorance or not at all.

Recently it seems no-one's interested because as far as ToffeeWeb's concerned the jury is in and Moyes's reign is an "unmitigated disaster".

I don't need to go into why the majority of posters want Moyes gone because the majority savage him these days. I myself have written in disillusionment about him ? despite what you might think, I am not his greatest fan.

But these criticisms are becoming increasingly wild, and anyone who mentions what Moyes has done for us is dismissed (because it's "ancient history") and our current table placing, despite the apparent stabilising of a yo-yo four years that many cried out for at the start of the season, glossed over.

Now what Toffeeweb describes as a "sensible and balanced discussion" from Alex Quigley describes Everton ending the season in "mid-table mediocrity". There's ten games to go! (that aside, I'm in agreement with Alex over Kenwright).

I'm not saying we shouldn't play better football and I'm not saying "don't criticise Moyes" because when he makes subs like he did on Wednesday he deserves a bollocking. But I'm looking at the table this morning and then looking at the mailbag, and trying to make it equate.

I'm sure I'll get the lecture of my life for this, but for me it just doesn't.
Simon Amble, Hereford  (26/2/07)

Moving aside

I see the Chairman of Southampton, Michael Wild, has stepped down because he has been unsuccessful in his quest to raise investment. `I initiated and led the search for new investors`, he says, `but have failed to come up with anyone in over six months. I feel it right I should let somone else take the helm`.

Other clubs are oviously more demanding of their Chairman than the one I support!
Bruce Ward, Runcorn  (26/2/07)

AJ...

AJ doesn?t dive a la Ronaldo or Gerrard etc, but he certainly doesn?t choose to add extra stability to his legs when needed when he is shoulder to shoulder with a defender (or two). He fell, collapsed, stopped using his legs to gain the penalty against Watford and so cheated. Don?t want to hear the 'defenders are forced into making challenges that bring him down' excuse. He's cheating. The closest I saw to a dive all last season from an Everton player was Beattie when he couldn't be bothered to step over a goalkeeper after the ball had already gone out.

This maybe my second 'anti' AJ post to the mailbag recently, though I see them more as observations, ?cos he?s great. It seems to me that if players are shoved a little they beleive that should be a foul and will make the appeal to the ref by falling over, like putting up your hand for off-side. But it's the falling the ref is giving free kicks, penalties for... so that's another thing about football I hate.
Nick Entwistle, London  (26/2/07)

Clearing things up

Ok, some things appear to have gotten muddled resulting in a ?them versus us? atmosphere prevailing. It?s the anti-Moyes versus the Moyes apologists? except it?s not. I have posted more than once (like others) that Moyes has lost the plot, has no sense of direction, no ability to plan for the future and plays the most turgid defensive shit to be seen in Goodison for many a year (? ith the best squad in many a year might I add).

But I?m not anti-Moyes, and I imagine neither are most of the people who post somewhat negative comments about the man many hailed as our saviour. I don?t want him to fail, none of us do. I?d love to see Moyes succeed because that would mean we?d succeed. I?d love him to make a twat of me by proving everything I say about him to be rubbish, so would everyone who?s made similar posts to me. If, from now on we were to play decent, attacking football and get the results we should I?ll start posting positive things about him?but I?m not holding my breath.

We?ve sat through to many barren seasons, too many painful years to count. Moyes put an end to a lot of that and now we want progress. Top six and a decent cup run (ending in Wembley perhaps) as a guaranteed minimum return each season and I?ll be happy. But there?s no sign of that, no guarantee. Its yo-yo footie under Moyes (that isn?t even entertaining) and that aint good enough and that?s why folks, we want him gone?
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (26/2/07)

Ahh! Memories...

What did Everton win in the 40s and 50s? We were champions for six consecutive years between 1939 and 1945 and we 'won' promotion in the 50s. Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it!(Nil Satis Nisi Wishful Thinking).

In the meantime, Bill, put the "For Sale" sign up. In recognition of your previous services to the Club you can remain as lifetime Board member with special responsibility for getting the Stadium built. The King's Dock fiasco will be dutifully forgotten if you can bring in a billionaire or two!
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (26/02/07)

From whose lips?

Moyes' latest piece in the Liverpool Echo "Moyes happy to go it alone" ? could and probably was straight from the mouth or pen of the blue rinse Billy himself.

Is this just to reinforce the humiliating fact Billy Liar has no intention of letting it go despite the rest of the Premiership seeking investment and as is always the history of this mismanaged club growing the divide with even mid-table clubs? Football never stands still; it evolves and teams need to evolve and get better each year just to compete, history has shown Everton always fail to take the next step, now it's Billy's turn to make the same mistake he predecessors have; close his eyes and ears to change and cling tight to his private toy. And don't even start with hey luvvies he's a blue.....
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (26/2/07)

Re: Grandeur

Well done to Steven McBride for some excellent observations. The Spurs match was indeed a shambolic management display and the howls of derision from the terraces were entirely appropriate, just like they were for Ferguson and Kendall in the past. Moyes had let things slip; forgotten the things that made us love him in the first place. Yet, as Steven says, days like that have a habit of focusing the mind and the noises coming out of Goodison in the following days suggested, contrary to some speculation, that Moyes had genuinely given himself some time for reflection on the fans' response and admitted to himself his culpability.

Those who still criticise the formation on Saturady were delusional. I defy anyone to have picked a reasonable (i.e not 2-4-4) and more attacking formation than Moyes put out and although some might question the inclusion of Beattie I felt he got the personnel spot on too. Anichebe was awful on Wednesday and Vaughan lacks the strength for what was expected (although didn't turn out to be) a bruising encounter.

The performance itself, I felt, was the consumate away performance: get a solid lead and make sure you take it home with you. Had we sat back after the first (or indeed immediately after the second) complaints over defensive mindsets would have been justified. But the team attacked out the first half and produced some lovely stuff in general.

In particular, Cahill's chip onto Johnson's head, although only ever a half-chance, showed all the creativity that had been lacking in recent months. Moyes was absolutely right to ease-off in the second-half. It would have been nice to go out and destroy Watford but how many times have teams far higher in the league than us sat back on comfortable half-time leads. It's the correct way to go away from home. Get yourself ahead and then counter-attack.

Counter-attacking, getting the ball foward asap to take advantage of the opposition's over-commital of bodies and for me Everton's weakest suit. The complete absence of pace in midfield means to catch the opposition short at the back we have to resot to long-balls. Not a problem if you have a striker adept in hold-up play (was anyone else feeling rather jealous of Spurs for having Berbatov last night?). Sadly, we have Beattie and on that point our second-half floundered. His lack of goals may be due to low confidence but his lack of ball-retention is clearly due to low ability in this area.

Let's hope Moyes continues to release the shackles on his team that seemed so tight in recent times but so loose for 45 mins on Saturday but let's hope also that the summer will see an injection of pace into the midfield and a REAL target man.

Oh, and some defensive cover... and Fernandes... and the money to buy all this... bugger!
John Holmes, York  (26/2/07)

Let Them Play!!

As someone who hasn't 'come out of the woodwork', but has consistently argued for attacking football and passing to feet, I was chuffed with the first half on Saturday and disappointed with our 'what we have we hold' approach to the second. What the game proved was that we have players with the ability to pass, move and go forwards. The question is; are we happy with them doing this 2 or 3 times a season, or do we ask why it isn't done more often?

The best sides know when to take the 'hold on' approach. The average sides make it their default position. Moyes has diligently used this default position to get us where we are today. Despite buying some much better players, I'm still uncertain as to whether he has the ability to and/or will to consistently let these better players express themselves positively to win more games.

For the umpteenth time, I'm aware we don't have the money to compete with the big four. How aware are you that it costs nothing to let the skillful players you have bought show us why you bought them in the first place? Please, let them play some more, so we can win the games to get us into Europe!
Paul Tran, Kendal  (26/2/07)

Chickens

In the pub after the Watford game, a couple of lads I know were congratulating themselves for booing Moyes on Wednesday night. In their eyes, they were personally responsible for the much-improved first-half attacking performance against Watford. And they pinned the dull, defensive second half on Moyes reverting back to his old ways. Delusional or what?

The first-half performance was down to the return of Johnson and Cahill who knackered themselves out too much to be of any use in the second (and the fact that Watford are crap). And does anyone really think Moyes is the kind of man to allow a bunch of whining malcontents to affect his team selection?

And did anyone else find the proposed demonstration aimed at attracting more investment to Everton a bit desperate, slightly absurd and distinctly un-Everton?

Everton fans have provided their fair share of cringe worthy moments over the last few years, but it has usually been a small minority of dickheads causing the problems. But the wholesale hysteria witnessed over the last week or so is more reminiscent of a gaggle of clucking old hens than "the most clued-up fans in football."
Steve McBride, London  (26/2/07)

I won't apologise

After the win at Watford (hoorah, hoorah) anyone would think that we had won the flippin' Premiership! Even those MotD plonkers were asking 'why would anyone boo Moyes'? These are the same pundits who a week or two ago were sniggering at us for the dour, defensive display over at the Dark Side, sniggering at our lack of goals etc etc. Now they're all closing ranks. Yeah, whatever!

Well, you overpayed bunch of has-beens, I for one will not apologise for expressing my disgust at what was an unforgiveable and amateurish display by the man in charge. I have no issue with the players, Goodness knows, they must be as baffled as we are as to the tactics employed. Yes, DM made changes for Saturday (hoorah again) but Watford are hardly the team that we should use as the benchmark of success!

I will support and love Everton for the rest of my days, unconditionally and without exception whether it's DM or whoever in charge. All I ask in return is a competent manager and players who will give as much of their own heart as I do for the Blues.

As for Arteta leaving because of US? Are you having a laugh? If Arteta leaves it will because he has a better future somewhere else. How convenient for the management to suddenly raise this issue now - It's already on the cards that the guy (and possibly others?) will go but of course, after Wednesday, it'll be our own fault for being so nasty. Ah rubbish! Anyone out there with half a brain can see what this lot are up to - deflect the blame from the management. Finish in the top ten, job done, and there's always NEXT season to look forward to.

Dear god, I can't believe I've already got my tickets for the Arsenal game. I must be barking! It's like being in a hopeless marriage- you know the bastards's cheating on you but you just can't let go. You can see through the lies and the excuses but still forgive and hope that one day all will be well.

Right, got that off my chest and it's back to the washing and ironing... (that's a joke, by the way!)

Come on you Blues! Onwards and Upwards.
Lue Glover, Flint  (26/2/07)

Our fate is 5th

We're currently 5th in term of Goal difference, 5th in highest Goal scored, 5th in lowest goals conceded and most importantly 5 points of 5th place.

It's a sign that we're finishing 5th this season.

COYB!! IN MOYES WE TRUST!!
Muhammad Amin Azman, Malaysia  (26/2/07)

Poor Relations

As a 22-year-old, my active support of Everton covers only the years we have competed in the Premier League. Given that so many people write about the club`s former glories, I researched our history over the last 40 years.(Surely anytime before this is truly pre-historic!) Do you know, I discovered that in only FOUR seasons in all that time have we actually managed to finish higher that our Red neighbours? Catterick did it once, Kendall twice and,of course, Moyes a couple of years ago. Success in Europe and the cups has been equally hard to achieve and, all in all, we have been the `also rans` on Merseyside for almost twice as long as I have been on this earth!

Now I do accept that comparisons with Liverpool are not the only determining factor of `greatness` or `big` club status but we do have to accept that, apart from short periods under Catterick and Kendall we have been pretty crap for years. Perhaps if we recognise that truth it will help us all to look a little more objectively on how we are faring at present and be just a little more restrained in our criticism of the Moyes regime.
Sean Cannon, Hoylake  (26/2/07)

Moore's Quote

John Moores did not say that Evertonians expect to see 'good football'. He said that we expect 'success'.
Tony Horne, Kettering  (25/2/07)

Life On Mars

I don't know why, but reading Michael quoting John Moores again made me think of Gene Hunt. And that's nothing to do with rhyming slang. What can it all mean? Can Sam Tyler ever return to 2007 or will be forever stuck in the past...

Times have changed and stamping and screaming every time things aren't going our way won't change a thing. Before the season, I stated on here that 8th would measure just about acceptable progress on last season, 6th would be a decent achievement. That doesn't mean I'm happy with 8th or even 6th or even happy with David Moyes some of the time. It does mean I'm aware of our current context and that moving to the next level, whatever that is, is not that simple.

Is Moyes a realist or a shithouse? Well, that's a moot point, but he has done a lot of good for the club and if it is time for a change then there's just as much chance, if not more, of getting in somebody who can do no better, and maybe even a lot worse, than of getting somebody in to take us to the level of consistent top 6 and beyond, which Moyes has flirted with but not sustained.

If there's a manager who would be willing to come under the current regime and is significantly better than Moyes, great; get him. But change for change's sake is pointless and potentially very damaging, and before you say you're not advocating Moyes be sacked then by quoting from Moores what exactly are you advocating?

In the context of your reply it was aimed directly at Moyes, but of course it could also apply to our current custodians. And in all honesty I can't see us ever living up to our motto in the current climate unless the change comes from somewhere other than the manager.
Rob Fox, Blackpool  (25/2/07)

John Moores' Quote

Accepting mediocrity or reality? We would all love to aspire to those fine words but even he couldn't. John Moores said those words when we were probably bigger than Man Utd...... shame he didn't do more to back his assertions in the 70s when he presided over possibly our greatest declining period, then perhaps LFC would not have grown into the trophy-winning machine of the 70s, 80s and now, and we would be much nearer the top of the pile than we now are. Words are cheap and mottos don't win cups, ingrained or not... and we can quote them forever, as can most club's fans about their respective clubs when wishing to rouse the natives. Perhaps our true motto is we love a good moan!!!!
Tom Hughes, North sea  (25/2/07)

Moyes hasn't improved

Moyes was quite a decent coach in the season we got 7th by improving the defense. But he never moved past that. I used to support him as I felt that he had the grit. But he also may need to change his mentality. Now we have 42 points so, with money from Premiership in the bag, we should just go out and kick ass! Attack attack and attack!!

Everton fans are great because, in spite of all the bad football these last few years, you guys are still around. Moreover, you are not just paying lip-service but you pay the salaries for the people at the club.

As for the booing, I think it is good thing you guys are already supporting him and the club by attending the match. Booing is a form of encouragement!! You boo because you care for the club a lot and wish they would do better. Just like parents scold their children. Any other people would have just walked away!!

Hopefully Moyes can improve...
Chung Ching Chang, Singapore  (25/2/07)

Not Good Enough

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum ? mean anything to all of you out there?

I've always believed a manager should be given time to make the squad his own. I was one of those who was greatly encouraged by Moyes's impact on the club in the wake of Smith's coma-inducing stewardship.

Moyes has now had five years. Kenwright has had five years to back his own man. Ask yourselves, after five years, is mid-table good enough for you all? Is this what our club motto means?

I for one am not resigned to slumming it out for fifth place. Five years, and what have we won? Five years and are we to accept that just as we don't now have the annual scrap against relegation, that this is an achievement? With Everton's history? With Everton's fanbase? No I won't accept it at all.

I for one was thoroughly disgusted with Wednesday's performance, and I think Moyes 4-4-2 at Watford is as much of a climb down as we'll get. Five years and counting...

Our motto does not read: "Only a slight improvement in league standings, an understanding of the complexities of the modern game, and a slow acceptance that we cannot compete for major honours - will do"!!!

What happened to the School of Science? Five years is more than enough for Moyes, and in particular the Cheshire Cat himself, Kenwright. "Only what we can afford to give you" should be the motto, or even: "Only what our limited understanding of what the Everton fanbase have been crying out for now for over a decade". Does anyone realise that I think Everton has won a trophy at least once a decade since football began? Oh yes, that is apart from this present regime.

Only the best will do.
Ray Mia, London, UK  (25/2/07)

Go for it!

Last night's win at Watford, whilst most welcome, did nothing to dispel the notion for me that we are still geared up to be a defensive team. The football in the first half was pretty good, while the second half was abysmal with our sitting back and our inability to string any passing movements together, bar the chances for Arteta (missed) and Osman (scored).

If Moyes is to win me back over, I want us to go to Bramhall Lane with the same frame of mind as that we had in the first half against Watford. We're safe now. Fortune favours the brave. Go for it!
Ray Robinson, Warrington  (25/2/07)

From my seat

Another three points toward Europe and next season's TV money is safe. 3-0 away against any Prem side is welcome.

The first half saw us play some of our best pass-and-move football this season and produced two goals which should have been four but for horrendous misses by Cahill and Beattie, the fact they were created though was encouraging. The second period saw us on the backfoot most of the time but I thought we always looked the team with the class and control and so it proved as Watford ran out of steam and ideas while Osman completed the scoring with some aplomb.

The tactics, substitutions and choice of personel showed progress from recent offerings. I couldn't help thinking as the game went on that there seemed to be a steely determination to show us fans that Manager and players had been stung by the crowd reaction on Wednesday last. Don't forget that reaction was spontanious from all sides of the ground not just posters to this site or any other minority grouping.

Perhaps all concerned with the club realised that thirty-odd thousand can't all be wrong at once and we can now look forward to a bit more nouce and joined-up thinking and play, it sure would be nice for the run in to be so. The Blades next ? time to cut loose. See you there --- UP THE BLUES
Ken Buckley, Buckley  (25/2/07)

quick response

Just a quick response to a post below about our remaining fixtures. I have just looked at them on the BBC website and it looks to me that we actually have alot of control over whether or not we qualify for Europe. Sheffield Utd, Villa, Charlton and West Ham are very winnable games. Bolton and Portsmouth are both around the European spots. Picking up points against them instead of relying on other teams to do so would be a bonus.

Chelsea and Utd are two of our last three games. The title could be decided by this stage. As neither can be caught for second place, and as they both may be preparing for the Cup Final, again we are in with a good shout. Arsenal, fair enough, will be hard to call.

Regardless of Wednesday night's debacle, I'm still fairly upbeat after our recent run of results. The football ain't pretty and I'll still grumble about that. But as I've said before, I'd rather be typing posts with some sort of a smile than being a completely miserable git!
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (25/2/07)

Negative fans

I have to agree with Chris Cornwell, we do have fans the equal of any negativity dished out by Mr Moyes tactics. There always has to be a whipping boy for some Evertonians, sometimes even the whole team and/or the manager face the wrath of the boo-boys. Even the great players of the 80's were not immune, one misplaced pass or missed chance was enough to bring the jeers down on the culprit. I've seen fellas around me who are far more vociferous in the moan than the cheer.

I often wonder what some of these characters get out of going to the match at all. It would appear now that views have become entrenched, leading some to vent their angst with more vigour than previously. Personally, I have only ever booed once... after Tranmere beat usat home. That's in over 35 years... I think silence is golden when you don't like what you see; the rest of the time we should really just get behind them IMO.
Tom Hughes, North sea  (25/2/07)

Sorry, David

Whilst I am no Richard Dodd,I do think that most of us who booed the manager on Wednesday now regret our actions and wish it had never happened. Every manager is entitled to the odd foible and when you see us sitting seventh in the strongest league in the world you realise how far Moyes has taken us with very limited resources.

Clearly, he has signed some excellent players but because of the limitations on his budget, not enough of them to have a squad challenging the Big Boys. Talking to fellow Evertonians at Watford, I know I`m not the first to say "Sorry, David" but I feel all the better for saying it!
Mike Radford, Prescot  (25/2/07)

Reply to Steve Callaghan

If you were to go back on quotes made by every manager who's ever sat behind a desk from any team, you could pull their comments to pieces, What's different about David Moyes's comments? Just look at the team he inherited compared to the current team, thats the yardstick he should be judged by. Unfortunately we can't afford Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Henry or Droghba!
Arthur Jones, Liverpool  (25/2/07)

Safe at Last

Phew... 42 points. Safe at last!
Andrew Gaule, Fort Simpson, Canada  (25/2/07)

NSNO

As expected, the mailbag is full of postings by Moyes apologists after a routine win at Watford. Someone even suggested other Premiership chairmen coveted Moyes! Are you serious? Perhaps they meant the Scottish Premier League but we are not a plucky wee Scottish team ? we are Everton and Moyes is out of his depth. Watford were abysmal but we weren't much better, most of our football was atrocious and if AJ hadn't played we might have only drawn.
Alan Rodgers, Blackpool  (25/2/07)

Best team

I disagree with that best XI we can play was yesterday. My best eleven would be:

             
               Howard
              
Hibbert  Yobo     Lescott  Valente

         Neville  Fernandes
Van der Meyde               Arteta 
               Cahill
  
               Johnson

This would be my team because it has all the right ingredients for a good attacking 4-5-1 formation. If we play 4-4-2 we are completely dominated in midfield. In defense we would have two pacy, strong centre halves, one full-back ultra defensive and one who can defend and attack. On one wing Arteta because he is are most creative player and too lightweight to play in the middle. On the other wing AvdM because of his technique and crossing ability; he also would not have to track back as much and lose his stamina because Hibbert is very defensive.

In the middle, Neville gets the nod over Carsley because of his better passing range and he is calmer on the ball. Also Fernandes because of his high energy levels, technique, passing etc. Cahill just behind Johnson because of his energy, agression and aerial presence. And Johnson as the lone striker because of his pace, work rate and goalscoring ability.
Connor Rohrer, Liverpool  (24/2/07)

Best Eleven

The most encouraging thing for me yesterday was that Moyes started with what on paper should be near enough his best eleven. As stated in an earlier post there was no sign of 'deadwood' on the bench either.

Yes, I could argue about playing Vaughan instead of Beattie or having a fit Valente on instead of Naysmith. Still, it was the strongest looking squad I have seen in quite a while. (I am purposely avoiding the whole tactics debate as that's a different post altogether.)

I wouldn't totally agree with George Graham either that it was purposely an attacking team. It was our best defense and most agressive midfield ? both on the pitch at the samne time. This was as much down to being injury and suspension free as anything else. Moyes still had to pick a team from this squad and he did seem to get it right. (If I'm going to complain about him in other posts, I have to be prepared to give credit when it's due as well!)

My one problem is the fact that AJ has had two leg injuries, ankle and knee, that would not seem to have been given time to fully heal. Hopefully, we can get a run together where we have all our best players available for the rest of the season. This would take some of the pressure off AJ and give him the rest he deserves.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (25/2/07)

Doddism is it a ? Freshfield Cult?

Richard, we have several thousand "genuine Evertonians" at every home and away game, the subject of your wet dreams has done fuck all for Everton besides taking over from agent Johnson ? you never mention he was part of Johnson's setup, why is that? The money spent has been part of the monies raised from selling England's best potential player for decades together with the monies raised from asset-stripping the club, coupled with Sky income which anyone in ownership of the club would have had.

If you care to read the mailbag and listen to the supporters actually attending the games week-in, week-out, the manager serves the most dour unattractive football displayed in the Premiership. As you apologists keep reminding us, we are the envy only of teams staring relegation in the face and thus looking at anything to retain Premiership status ? have you ever heard any other of the top sides praising our dreadful footballing malaise?

Accept Billy Liar as the myopic, serial-lying and self-centred egotist he really is and Moyes as having taken the club as far as he can. He is out of ideas and too stubborn to remove his L-plates or change his ways.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (25/2/07)

Kudos, Mr Moyes

Moyes was rightly booed for his defensive substitutions against Spurs but he should be applauded for his attacking formation against Watford. Moyes also made an attacking substitution bringing on Osman, who went on to score and finish the game in style. For everything he did wrong against Spurs, Moyes did right against Watford, let's hope applause will be as loud as the abuse.
John Cottee, Romford  (25/2/07)

re: Chris Cornwell

So Chris, if Arteta leaves at the end of the season, it will be the fans' fault? Nothing to do with the shite football Moyes has us playing most off the time? Maybe it was the fans' fault for Moyes putting on Hibbert the other night, or our fault he played for a draw?? Maybe the tactics he uses are our fault as well??? Wake up, Chris: if Arteta and the other quality players we have leave, it will (in my opinion) be down to one man: David Moyes.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (25/2/07)

Lessons learned?

On the whole, Watford was a positive performance. For me, there were two crucial changes to the team selection for yesterday's game that made a real difference ? the absence of Stubbs as a result of injury and the demotion of Osman to the subs bench.

With two strong quick central defenders, we were able to press the game much further up the park. This, together with a solid midfield line up with the right balance between craft and steel, allowed us to take control in this area, enabling us to play with two up front ? hence we carried a threat every time we went forward.

However, whilst I welcomed the changes, I do wonder if Stubbs had been available for selection would Moyes have chosen him to play and have reverted to a five-man midfield with one up front in a typically cautious approach? The decision to leave Osman on the bench, however, has to applauded as Fernandes is a much more effective option.

Of some concern was the fact that, as the game progressed we tended to drop deeper. Whilst I can understand Moyes may have been inclined to play a containing role for the first 20 minutes or so after the break, we appeared all too willing to settle in to this mode, inviting pressure on ourselves

Or perhaps I?m being unkind to opposition who may well be bottom of the table as a result of their inability to win games, however their record at home suggests they can be difficult to beat on their own turf.
Gerry Wheeler, London  (25/2/07)

Moyes Deserved the Reaction

I credit Moyes for almost taking the reaction to the Spurs game as a reaction to him. I remember thinking at the time, somewhere in the after-match manager talk would be the "I thought we did enough for the draw".. <

And that is the problem. I am not totally pro- or anti-Moyes, I am still undecided, but another home debacle like midweek and it won't be long before I add my name to the growing list that just want to see his back...

If patience is a virtue, I think the vast majority of Everton fans have been in high standing. But the Spurs game was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was painful; if we had gone for the win, and they had scored in the final minutes fair enough, that is football, but to sit back for a 1-1 draw, at home, against a team who is rivaling us for those Euro spots, and in a game we could well have won is a disgrace. And the fans deserve to show their displeasure..

A bit of time has passed now, and though a couple of days ago I was almost in the field of wishing Moyes would go as soon as a taxi could be found, time has seen me calm. He has made bad substitutions all season, he hadn't learnt before the Spurs game, I am personally willing to let him learn finally what we as Evertonian's expect and deserve, especially at home. If he hasn't, the chorus of boos will be growing louder, and I myself may end up joining them sooner than I ever expected.

In responce to "If Arteta leaves it will be the fans fault" claim made on this mailbag, Arteta is a grown man, I very much doubt he will walk away because of the reaction to one game. Failure to qualify for Europe, well then, a player of his undoubted ability may well be attracted to the possibility of a move to a club that can offer it him on a regular basis.

We are still in the position to get into Europe; if Moyes has learnt his lesson (and about time too!) we have a great chance. We will all support the team, but if we see the same as happened against Spurs again at home, after that final whistle, fans have every right to make their displeasure felt.
David Turner, Edinburgh, Scotland  (25/2/07)

Arteta

We weren't able to hang on to Rooney and Jeffers who were already involved in the national teams and they were locals and "fans". Arteta is neither and isn't currently involved in his national team but wants to be so what are the odds of keeping him? I think it is interesting that his performances have improved since the Madrid rumour came up.

The fans pay money every week to watch the games and we can boo for whoever or whatever we want and I don't want to hear anyone telling us that we "might upset Arteta". If he leaves it is because he wants to.
Kieran Kinsella, Gainesville, FL, USA  (25/2/07)

Simple Simon

Did anyone notice how well Simple Simon played yesterday against the league leaders? He put in a performance nobody here thought he had in him. Created chances, should have scorded a couple and tore into the United defence. He didn't look like the same player we had, or could it be they way the manager plays him? Go figure that one out Davey!

Chris Coleman also took a chance on someone who we wouldn't pay a measly $1M for ? Brain McBride. I know he wouldn´t be the answer we look for but he has continued to find the net on a regular basis the last couple of years down there and would have given us a better return than the fat sitter-misser we have now.
Ian Bonnette, Liverpool  (25/2/07)

Attacking football?

Yesterday's result was due to Watford's poor football rather than our attacking play. I thought we were the worst footballing side in the Prem but Watford have proven me wrong. The second half, Moyes was worried becuase we didn't take all our chances and weren't 4-0 up so he decided to play a more cautious approach (as usual). I guess if ? and that's a big if ? we make it to Europe playing this way I can't complain, but our football is awful.

ps: Simon Davies looked pretty useful at Fulham yesterday. Could it be because Coleman is allowing him to play attacking football?
Trevor Thompson, Croydon  (25/2/07)

Moyes is the man to make Everton fairly good.

A tale of two teams: the one that conceded a late goal against Spurs, and the one that put three past Watford.

Since the early 70s, I have, like so many others, attended Everton matches. Most of the time the team has been pretty poor, apart from the heady days of the mid-80s; yet in the not so distant past, I was driven to despair by a series of managers and players who patently didn't regard Everton the way I do. The seasonal escape from relegation became a norm, a habit, a way of life.

However, here we are now riding relatively high in the Premier League. How does the song go? " ...and if you know your history..." Well, history tells me that the current Everton team is okay; I've seen worse. Moyes does care enough about us. Generally, he has brought stability and a degree of bouyancy to a floundering ship. Okay, he makes mistakes but who doesn't? We could debate alternatives all day and it wouldn't get us into Europe.

So, I will continue to get behind the team and offer them my support. I know we don't have pots of money so I won't moan about Beattie (he was okay yesterday). This is Everton and we're doing okay under Moyes.
Phil Murray, Poulton-le-Fylde  (25/2/07)

Fickle or fearless?

Those who are behind Moyes and the football we play will be sitting smugly today no doubt saying "Where are the criticisms now? What's happened to all his doubters? Look how well we played" etc. The result against the Premiership's bottom side will be used to vindicate the man and will be used, quite naively, to gloss over the more fundamental issues. No doubt those who question him will be called fickle and even disloyal, and because of the possible lack of comments will be possibly thought to 'have seen the light'.

Well, as one of the doubters, I'm not fickle and yesterday's performance did not persuade me ? it reinforced my views. The result was a good one, but let's put it into perspective. We played well enough in the first half and certainly were more than worthy of the lead at half time. The midfield had a more attacking mindset and some chances were created and taken.

But did we control the play? Did we dictate the pace of the game? Did we keep the ball for more than five passes? How often did the back four pass through midfield? What I saw was our midfield, with better players man for man, winning their individual challenges and the team profiting. AJ and his pace disturbed their back four and we got the goals. I did not see a particularly cohesive team performance, I saw the majority of our players winning their battles.

So what happened in the second half? Well, my take on it was, 'we keep what we have and we let them see if they can break us down'. From a position where players were expected to go out and win their individual battles we were now expected to 'not lose our battles' a fundamentally different mindset.

Any attempt to impose ourselves and 'go at players' was replaced with a 'sit back' approach. Hence, for me, players like Carsley become more evident because he is required to step in and defend, whereas in the first half his contribution is minimal because we are attacking and his attributes are less important.

So who is fickle and who is fearless? Are the supporters fickle because they don't criticise when the results are good? Or is Moyes fickle because he doesn't trust his players to go forward for a full game? Are those supporters who still question his approach fearless? Or is Moyes fearless in his willingness to adopt his own mindset whatever the opposition and the state of the game?

Watford away was an opportunity to set out our way of playing for the rest of the season and beyond. Did it do that? And if it did what did it say? I know what I think it did: for me, it confirmed that he has reached his level, and it's below that of the players he is managing.
Jim Hourigan, Preston  (25/2/07)

Get off his back!

As this is my first posting, I'd like to say what a good job you are doing on this very imformative site. Now to business, I think we should get off Moyes's back. One bad result in midweek doesn't make him a useless manager, nor does one good win at Watford make him a world-beater. We must assess the job he has done over the last 5 years which I think is a fairly solid one. Yes, he makes frustrating mistakes but then again he is a manager from the lower leagues so must learn, as would players from this level.

Looking at the team on the park at Watford I felt fairly optimistic. Deadwood is down to a minimum and we've got young hungry replacements coming through. Moyes doesn't have the financial backing to go and buy the Ronaldos or the Berbatovs, players who change games consistently but his record is fairly good. You are always going to have a few arrivals who can't make the step up when speculation-buying as opposed to bringing in proven class.

Kenwright should back Moyes, which I think he is starting to do more, and we should push on up the table by playing more attractive football but this will only happen with transfer funds being made available helping us to compete. How are we going to contend with the quality of Man Utd's football etc when we consistently spend a third of the transfer money? This isn't Moyes's fault and I for one think he's doing a solid job even if he is on a hiding to nothing!
Shaun Cook, Bedford  (25/2/07)

What about fans negativity affecting Everton???

Although the game against Tottenham was a big mistake by Moyes, which he has admitted in a roundabout way, the reaction of the fans after could have more consequences than subbing on Tony Hibbert. The reason I say this is an interview with Mikel Arteta on Sky Sports, he basically said he did not like the reaction of the fans, didn't understand it, and it shocked him. This was the most negative thing he has said about Everton and it is totally down to the fans' reaction.

Could it be that Moyes has attracted a very very good player, embedded him into the team, got consistent performances from him and the Everton fans reaction could be pushing him towards the exit door? I am sure if he did leave it would be Moyes's is fault in some people's eyes but that would not be the case. Arteta loves playing for Moyes and is able to express himself his only negative thought is for the Everton fans that cold Wednesday night against Tottenham.

So maybe Everton fans can take a good look at themselves before so ferociously taking the opportunity to gun for Moyes. Just remember where we have come from under Moyes, a good team, good players, some good football when all players are fit and a team to give anybody a game. Any success we do have is down to Moyes because it sure isn't anything to do with Bill Kenwright! (I will save my thoughts on him for another day.)
Chris Cornwell, UK  (23/2/07)

Hats off to Medwin!

Oliver Medwin put into two paragraphs what I have been trying to say for two years. Evertonians should think themselves lucky that they have a very hardworking and genuine Evertonian at the helm and a manager who is coveted by nearly every Chairman in the Premier.
Richard Dodd, Formby  (25/2/07)

It was Watford

After Wedednesday, I suppose a win is a bonus, but don't let's get carried away. Watford have had a couple of good results, mainly in the FA Cup, but everyone and their dog have been stuffing them. The first half we played some good stuff, and should have gone in at HT well out of sight.

What ever was said at the interval seemed to have changed our performance: we sat back and allowed Watford to get into the game. This is the ugly side of Everton ? Why do we allow teams to get at us? Howard made some good saves, and we kept them at bay. Moyes made a couple of changes, and Osman scored the goal of the game, for three valuable points.
Norman Merrill, Everton  (25/2/07)

Love it

Ed Bottomley.. tops for me mate, and you James McP... spot on, organ grinder first then the monkey. All this angst, well for me anyway isn't just knee-jerk for one defeat v Spurs ? there are 'x' number of previous to be taken into consideration.

Is Bill doing all he can? Well, I have my doubts. The mythical Fortress Fund fiasco gave us the impression that, for their £12½M they would get 33%, which comes to £37½M. Young Master Redsox over the park there got £195M to trouser. If there is that much money to be made in the Prem and it's the football equivalent of one of those supermarket fill-the-trolley dashes, why then would anybody in purely cash terms pay a dear bill, when they could pay a cheap bill... and the only answer that comes to my mind is... BILL.

Oh, and Nick Wall: Yes we ARE inconsistent, but if we are to be inconsistent and at the same time (with a nod to the lack of finance etc etc blah blah) finish say 6th, I would rather us be inconsistent in the style of the first half vs Watford rather then in consistant in the style of the 2nd half vs Spurs. If, as sometimes seems, Moyes can't or won't do it that way, well 5 yrs is enough, for me anyway. 'Fine words, (well written or no) butter no parsnips' as the saying is.
Derek Thomas, Auckland, New Zealand  (25/2/07)

Nearly Well Done, Dave

I can't understand what went on yesterday at Vicarage Road. In the first 45 minutes we, ripped into The Red Lion, I mean Watford and it really looked as if the booing of Moyes on Wednesday night have done the trick. Bombing forward at every opportunity and winning all the second balls around their box, we looked great. Wave after wave of attacking football had me thinking Moyes had seen the light and licking my lips for more. If Cahill and Beattie had slotted away the easiest of sitters then a cricket score was on the cards.

What was said to the players at half-time to change things so drastically? Why did we revert back to the negative shite? All the good work done by Moyes (if it was him) was undone with the tame second-half showing and the return to sitting deep. Watford are ultra-poor ? Moyes should have carried on with the same tactics and we would of wiped the floor with them.

It was fantastic to watch the Blues surge forward in numbers and actually take it to a team instead of the usuall way we play. I suppose it's not the done thing to nit-pick after a 3-0 away win but it just goes to show what we can do when given a license to get forward. The way we played in the first half yesterday will do me just fine if we keep it up for the remainder of the season.

My only worry is that this result will give Moyes the excuse he needs to keep going in his usuall fashion. The cat's out the bag now though and we have glimpsed the future. Dave is Deadly no longer, he has thrown off the shackles and is no longer under the spell of the Seargent Wilko regime. We are the Arsenal of the North and I can't wait for the next game to come about. We will beat Man Utd and Chelsea playing our new system. Europe is guaranteed...

Fuck me, them Mexican beers are strong.
Tony Marsh, Liverpool  (25/2/07)

Hard Done By? You Bet....

Decided to avoid the predicatable eulogising after the 'massive victory of beating a Championship-bound team away yesterday'. Instead, thought I'd mention about our decisions that have gone against us by refs...

Have a look at U Need Specs Ref, which updates the league table based on decisions that referees should have given. Just a bit of harmless fun as there's no way of knowing what else may have happened in the game if certain decisions had been made, but makes you wonder...
Matt Traynor, Singapore  (25/2/07)

Anger management

Michael, Re your witty repost, I'd agree that most Evertonians were pissed off Thursday morning ? I certainly was.

Who said "This is the best Everton can do"? I never, I believe we can do much better ? I've been lucky enough to be around when we have. I've also been around when we were involved in undignified scrambles for points at season end to stay up ? this tends not to happen now, I like that.

Your other point bears much more scrutiny when you condemn people who argue: "we can't expect anything more without investment".

Are you seriously suggesting that we compete on a level playing field with Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, Newcastle, Spurs?

We have the smallest squad in the Premier League ? do you never ask yourself why? Time after time, players Moyes has targeted have chosen to play their football at rival clubs rather than us ? Again why? I?d argue largely because others pay more dosh. Why can't we pay more money? Lack of availability, it's as simple as that. Where are we going to get more money? Investors; or Bill puts his hand in his pocket and produces some out of thin air.

Sure, we can put a team together to beat the big guns now and again but to do that consistently you need strength in depth ? we have not got that, we will not get that without more financial outlay. However, I?m not trying to absolve Moyes of all responsibility for progress or the perceived lack of it.

From my perspective, Moyes's management has exhibited three probable failings:

1. He is a very cautious and naturally defensive minded coach ? great when you are playing a backs-to-the-wall Alamo-style thou-shalt-not-pass match against a team with the world Class players that, given the chance, will play you off the park ? pretty shit when you are playing Spurs at home for a draw.

2. His team play shit-to-watch football sometimes. I hate this ? but I'll take a 1-0 poor performance over a 0-1 thrill-a-minute defeat if it keeps us in the top half of the table and with access to revenue that might just make a future difference.

3. He has proved to be a poor judge of a prospective player... though Cahill, Johnson, Howard, Lescott, Fernandez, Arteta, suggests he gets it right sometimes.

Personally, I believe that many of the more rabid Moyes critics (not all) are living in the land of unrealistic expectations ? where Everton are still the Mersey Millionaires and the ghost of Sir John Moores is waiting in the wings to hand the new manager a blank cheque to make everything alright again with a string of dazzling signings from the cream of the elite of World football. Forget it, we dump Moyes we're left with the same financial problems, the same set of players but without the guy whose strengths (and perhaps perversely, his failings) have largely been responsible for keeping Everton Football Club in the Premier League.
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (24/2/07)

Slightly impressed

First, the Watford fans are brilliant! I was almost tempted to berate AJ myself as some of their songs were pant-wettingly funny. They were non-stop all game, and I left with great memories of the banter rather than the match.

Today saw an attacking Everton, but because Moyes knew Watford are an embarrassment to the Premiership. They were abysmal, honestly, I reckon Orient are a better side. Anything less than a thrashing would have got Moyes the sack, so don't get carried away about a result our Under-18's would have achieved!

But again the usual Moyes blueprints reared their ugly heads. Like the team being unable to string five passes together, Beattie being totally useless, playing deep in the second half of a match which will always invite pressure, and the classic making subs at the totally wrong stage. Wouldn't it make sense to use a game like this to try and better ourselves? Iron out the Beattie-size creases?

I'll leave the usual dressing down today, but I am not overly impressed as much of our 'attacking' play was still as predictable as Watford's fate. We must learn to A) Play football B) Learn technique (Cahill, you listening) C) Have more than one attack plan as opposed to whack it long to AJ down the flanks!

But today's a start.
Luq Yussef, London  (24/2/07)

Poll

Hey guys, great job your doing, but just wondering when this new poll might be up and running? :)
John Norter, Sale  (24/2/07)

Predictable

I thought this was one of Everton's worst performances, the passing was bollocks, the chances were typical of the type of defending you'd expect from a club who's bottom.
Nick Harrison, Liverpool  (24/2/07)

Oliver medwin and season's end

Two points. Firstly, Oliver Medwin, I am sure Kenwright does spend a lot of time at the club cooking up ways to make our finances seem like they're in good shape. Creating fantastical lies about new investors and of course eating to keep his rotund shape.

Second point. 3-0. That's great and all but look at the games we have left! I see at least 3 being almost certain defeats (Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea) and of the other seven I'd be surprised if we got 10 points so let's not get too excited about being only one point behind tiny cheaply assembled Reading.
Kieran Kinsella, Gainesville, FL, USA  (24/2/07)

Oliver Medwin

Oliver Medwin says "I don't usually write to the websites" ? I hope he keeps it that way. What a load of fucking bollocks the man came out with.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (24/2/07)

Great Victory

After the admittedly very disappointing defeat to Spurs this site was awash with headlines like "Calamitous Moyes Costs Blues Dearly" and almost every poster was using that defeat to sum up the Moyes era.

After a very encouraging away victory against Watford I was hoping for the opposite reaction but I don't see anyone using this victory to sum up the Moyes era.

It seems that when Everton lose everyone immediately jumps on the sack Moyes bandwagon but when Everton win and return to 7th place, everyone goes quiet and any credit is begrudingly given.

Very unfair.
Paul Atress, Liverpool  (24/2/07)

Teaching Moyes

I think Micheal put it perfectly when he said, 'The reaction has been harsh, perhaps. But justifiably harsh. He needed a massive kick up the arse...'

Most of the Everton fans here appreciate the splendid job by Moyes these last five years. However, Moyes must learn that he is managing a massive club with fans who demand 'good football' as well as the results.

The boos were, in my opinion, a reminder of what we fans demand. But I think the majority of Everton fans still back Moyes to be in charge for the coming years ? they just want him to slightly change his ways.

Anyway, credit to him for admitting his mistake, and hearing the fan's view. The 3-0 win was an excellent victory for our charge for European spot.
Muhammad Amin Azman, Malaysia  (25/2/07)

Balanced commentary

I haven't agreed with all Moyes's tactical decisions. I wasn't too happy with the substitutions against Spurs. But steady on! The main aim this season was a Top 6 place. We're now just one point away from that with a healthy goal difference. And Moyes has brought some good players to the club who can keep us challenging for Europe in the next couple of years, while letting go other players who can't take us forward.

The main argument seems to be that Moyes doesn't possess the skills to get the best out of these players and take Everton on to a higher level. I don't dismiss this argument. We are too inconsistent. We're not seeing the best from some players like Beattie and VdM. But I think Moyes is tactically more astute than some give him credit for. Much as it galls me to admit it, sometimes it's right for Everton to play 4-5-1, at least when Johnson's up front.

For a club with Everton's resources, we are doing well to be where we are at the moment. Yes, we could do even better, but on an Everton website I would like to see more credit given for our recent away wins and clean sheets, and some more balanced commentary in general.there are times when it's right to play 4-5-2 when Johnson's up front. Few would disagree with that. But that's not the real issue. The real issue is: "What to do when Johnson is not available?" That little conundrum had Dave in a right old dither
Nick Wall, New Brighton  (24/2/07)

Please desist

I don`t usually write to these sites but occasionally visit ToffeeWeb because of a longstanding family interest in Everton FC.Quite frankly,I have been disgusted over the last few days to see your Editor orchestrating a campaign for the removal of both the Chairman and the Manager.

I can personally vouch for the time Mr Kenwright devotes to the business of his club and to suggest that he should remove Mr Moyes at this juncture would see him held up to ridicule by the whole football world. Please, sir, desist from this abominable rabble rousiing.
Oliver Medwin, London  (23/2/07)

Still not a summer

A good win but would anyone expect less against the worst club in the Premier League? Well taken goals too including Osman's (even if he will get a bollocking for shooting outside the area ? a great confidence goal).

The substitutions still baffled me. Beattie did fuck all during the match besides a glaring miss where he threw his weight behind a shot; even an amateur know when you lean back as you shoot it's going one way ? Row Z. Remove Johnson for Vaughan was a mistake as Vaughan doesn't track back to midfield to help out so several Watford attacks went all the way to taking a shot.

Why not remove Beattie and go 4-5-1 and bolster the midfield to counter Watford's attacks? Yes Everton won but a decent team would and should have buried Watford on the evidence of their defensive frailties and today's keeper that often put Dickie Fingers to shame with his inability to actually catch the ball.

So, Doddy (does your boss know you freeload during the week?), I'm still not convinced; I think Moyes is still walking a very thin line... wait until the remaining matches are played to say can he beat all the bottom teams as convincingly as they should be.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (24/2/07)

Moyes

Good to see Moyes starting with a fairly attacking setup as if he wanted to go and win the game. First half was very good. I'm glad Beattie also got a chance alongside AJ and there was some good link-up play and he made some good runs, but how the hell did he miss that sitter?? Don't know how many more chances we can give him now though but I, like a lot of Evertonians would love to see him come good. Just ain't gonna happen.

It was as if Moyes actually listened to the fans with his line-up today, but it's all very well doing it against the bottom club ? let's see more like that please Davey. We've got good attacking players now, use them.
John Fowler, Maghull  (24/2/07)

Why now?

I didn't see the game but from the reports I can understand why people are so upset. But one would have thought that the reaction that I see here would have come if this were the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. Am I missing something but what dissatisfaction has led to such overeaction to an admittedly disappointing result?

Moyes clearly stuffed up on Wednesday but it seems that several results this year which could have seen us higher in the table were down to players who did not perform rather than the manager. But that's why we're all venting at our keyboards and Moyes is manager, huh?
Michael Kidd, Pietermaritzburg, South Africa  (24/2/07)

The choice is yours

Tonight's result and display against Watford showed the arguments surrounding David Moyes in a nutshell. Firstly, he picked an attacking formation but most importantly in the first half he obviously instructed the players to attack in numbers and press the opposition higher up the pitch. Result: we scored two goals but it should have been four.

The first goal typified the positive approach ? for god's sake there were FOUR Everton players actually in the box (something that is exceedingly rare under David Moyes). We were, to quote George Graham "sensational" in the first half.

Unfortunately in the second half we reverted to type and defended far too deep, there was a large gap between the attack and the midfield. Result: Watford dominated the second half and we really didn't look like scoring.

I just hope that the penny will drop with Moyes. We look a much better team if we play like we did in the first half, we will score more goals and win more matches. However, if we keep playing like we did in the second half the result will be more of the dour, boring uninspiring football that has characterised most of David Moyes time in charge.

David Moyes: the choice is yours ? which approach is it to be?
John Crawley, Liverpool  (24/2/07)

OTT

I agreed with much of the criticism after Wednesday but it's gone a bit over the top now. At least give some credit when we do play well. For Mchael to slag the team off for defending a 2-0 lead away from home is a bit disappointing. I thought we did well today.
Ed MacDonald, East Lothian  (24/02/07)

Decent result

At last, Moyes puts out an attacking formation. and a good first half were we played some good football... followed with a shite second half.

Why did we come out and play deep? But a win's a win. I just hope the Moyes apologists don't get too carried away with this result, because we were playing the BOTTOM side. I'll put my hands up and say well done Davey for at least having a go, even though it was for only 45 mins of the game. It still doesn't change my mind about him, he still has to go.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (24/2/07)

Everton Supporter...

.... Not 'Moyes apologist'

That's just 2 defeats in 10 League games.

Never mind a witch-hunt Ged, the atmosphere in here recently has been comparable to a Nuremberg rally with anyone taking a non-'Moyes Out' party stance being shot down in flames quicker than a one winged duck flying over an SAS rifle range on let's-shoot-a-duck-day.

I love it when a plan comes together. Well done Everton, well done, David Moyes (now I'm just being inflammatory).
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (24/2/07)

On the Tabloid section of the Evertonian support

I see someone is attempting to discuss who should be the new Everton boss when Moyes is sacked, because of all the true Evertonians who want him to leave. This is ludicrous. Think for one instant and see what David Moyes has done for Everton.

If you can't be satisfied with finishing fourth in the Premiership on a tiny budget, when can you be? The man has done wonders for this club. Please do not mix up the title of 'true Evertonian' with that of a single-minded individual who frankly has no understanding of the modern game.
Daniel Greenwood, London/Liverpool  (24/2/07)

Crisis?

3 goals, 3 points, clean sheet, only 2 teams ahead of us outside the big spenders ? job done. Until next time...
Dan Parker, New York, USA  (24/2/07)

It`s all gone quiet over there!

A marvellous attacking display sees Davey put the boo-boys to shame as Everton race past the 40 point landmark not usually reached by his predecessors until late April.

With Reading dropping points, we can now be supremely confident of at least the Intertoto place as Bill smiles from the Directors` Box, Davey is once more our hero ...and the Mailbag goes quiet.
Richard Dodd, Formby  (24/2/07)

Europe?

Correct me if I am wrong, but if we finish 7th this season, don't we still qualify for Europe? Usually the winners of the Carling Cup get a place in Europe, but as the two teams are Chelsea and Arsenal who are bound to already get their place throught their league position, doesn't it go to the next place in the league?? COYB
John Glover, Liverpool  (24/2/07)

Attacking substitutions

The mailbag letters about attacking substitutions (Royle?s FA Cup Final and Moyes? Arsenal 2002) remind me of Jan 2004 when we were 1-0 down at home to Arsenal. With 20 minutes to go, Moyes took off Kilbane and sent on Jeffers who 4 minutes later set up Radzinski for the equaliser. Now with 16 minutes to go against 2nd placed Arsenal (who went on to win the league undefeated) and with Rooney, Radzinski, Ferguson & Jeffers up front, you would have expected a defensive substitution ie Yobo to come on to help Stubbs & Unsworth keep Henry quiet? But no, it was Wenger who brought on Edu for Kanu and Moyes brought on Campbell for Radzinski. Result 1-1.

In these 3 examples, Everton were the underdogs and holding on to what they had. Attack was proven to be the best form of defence. On Wednesday the roles were reversed. In the second half, Everton had been the better side. Spurs were holding on for what would have been for them a good point with their away record. Fernandes was knackered and the rest is history.

However, beware frustrated ambition. I remember City sacking Peter Reid after he had got them to two 5th-place finishes in the top division, including a rare finish above Man United, thinking City could get someone better. City ended up in the Third division...
Gordon Beattie, Cheshire  (24/2/07)

What's wrong with Moyes?

Just what is everybody's problem with Moyes? Moyes isn't the greatest manager we've had but he sure ain't the worst. Yes, he made a mistake Wednesday night but the guy's only human and we are well within our capabilities of finishing top 6.
Chris Mason, Kendal  (24/2/07)

Anyone else watching the Fulham game?

All those who rubbish Davies and Radzinski should see the way they are playing. I can only assume that not playing with a defensive mindset is the reason.
Simon Templeman, Gloucestershire  (24/2/07)

Manager's job going?

Well, now most of us true blues have come to believe we need a change of manager, who is the smart money on? Who can deliver a style of football that is acceptable to the blue masses? Who can deliver the quality players on a budget best applied to spending at Aldi?
Chris Williams, Lancaster  (24/2/07)

As good as it gets - for now

Does anyone rally think that, with Moyes gone, Everton will suddenly be in the top four under the guiding hand of some hitherto unknown wizard. No-one, with the resources at his disposal, will do much better than a consistent mid-table finish. Yes, more attractive football could be played, but with the team that he has, with let's say three ball players, most injured, who is going to produce the mythical winning champaigne football, and at what cost?

I can just see us giving Moyes the boot, and return to the days of nail-biting relegation scraps. This is the best Everton can do, with the resources at their disposal. Live with it.
Bram Oliver, Windhoek, Namibia  (24/2/07)

Time for a change

I've supported Moyes over the 5 years he's been in charge and the club is in doubt a much healthier state than when he came in. However, his negative tactics are beginning to remind me of George Graham's Arsenal, a man who had been linked with us prior to Moyes's appointment and a man who I swore if he got the job I would never set foot in Goodison while he was in charge.

People have asked "Who would we get to replace him?" as if that's a reason to put up with this negative defensive style every week dropping points against lesser opposition because we are too afraid to attack. Perhaps the answer lies in a man who was strongly linked with us in a playing capacity a couple of years ago. Roy Keane has transformed Sunderland from relegation certainties to play-off contenders and with little investment in the squad. Clearly he commands ultimate respect and his team are playing atractive attacking flowing football. He is one man I would welcome to drive us to the next level we all crave for.
Mark O'Brien, Wirral  (24/2/07)

`We don`t make excuses but....`

`We don`t make excuses...` is a favourite saying of Dave the Procrastinator but he in variably goes on to make a string of them. His latest takes the biscuit for me, though. `I think we can blame the World Cup`, he says of Nuno Valente`s frequent absences. `He was involved right up to the semi-finals and clearly needed a rest`.

That was eight bloody months ago for chrissake!The biggest reason given for injuries under his regime is the mysterious ones the players `pick up in training`... I know what Catterick would have said about them. `Bloody scrim.....!` Or got a new fitness coach.
Jack Derbyshire, Altcar  (24/2/07)

Them were the days....

Just reading a ToffeeWeb Match Report from the 95 FA Cup Final. We were up one-nil against the odds with only a quarter of the game to go... what does Royle do? He throws on Ferguson and Amokachi!

High efficiency football my arse.
Dean Paton, Wirral  (24/2/07)

Doddy`s TV Debut

What was Richard Dodd doing being interviewed by Sky Sports News re the Kenwright protest outside Goddison Park ON A WORKDAY? HE says he had called in to pick up some tickets, WE say he had just picked up his script from Ian Ross! The Council taxpayers of Sefton demand an answer!
Malcolm Rimmer, Freshfield  (24/2/07)

Determination Day for Moyes

Today, Everton play a team who have scored just 16 goals in their 27 games. Hardly an attacking threat, you would think. Whether or not David Moyes is really the defensive obsessive he has been made out to be in these columns will be determined by his team selection and tactics this teatime. With a Uefa target of 21 more points to aim for, there can, of course, be only one approach - a focus on attack.

But if, as some have suggested, the only real target is the budgeted tenth place, we shall again see (in the absence of Johnson) the one figure of Beattie in a lone-striker role. Against such moderate opposition will the long term future of our fading Moyesiah be determined...
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (24/2/07)

A cunning plan

One of my Liverpool colleagues gleefully informed me that Stubbsy said the players are unable to perform at GP because the crowd put them under too much pressure or words to that effect. A few other people have said that they had heard more or less the same... What a bloody cheek!

Part of me wants to send a letter of apology to Hibbo and Naysmith in particular, lest they should have thought that I and many others, were booing them. The other part of me wants to give Stubbsy a reality check.

So the team feel under pressure? Okay, maybe so and yes, I wouldn't have fancied being out there on Wednesday night either. Apart from Howard, half the team were playing out of position. The tactics were changing from one goal kick to the next. I use the term 'tactics' for want of another word to describe whatever DM tells the players to do.

So, no, I wouldn't have been comfortable playing out there in an atmosphere that was boiling up nicely to culminate in the inevitable losing goal. But Stubbsy's comments? Sorry big lad you're out of order criticising the home crowd. This is the same home crowd who applauded every time BT actually did anything to contribute to the game, the same crowd that has stuck with the TEAM through thick and thin. Yes, there are people who struggle to take to particular players but Wed night was about the way the manager messed up.

Why does he persist in playing people out of position when he doesnt need to. Why ask Naysmith who rarely ventures out of his own half, to perform as a left winger? Why, why and thrice why?

I'll never understand this bloody game. But isn't football like everything else? Play to your strenghts not your weaknesses? We have a centre-forward who can't jump so who better to play against a centre back that's taller than your average lamp column? Play full backs in attack or midfield or well, somewhere other than at full back and play centre backs at er, full back. Yes, of course, that's what DM's trying to do - baffle the opposition by making the team play everywhere except in their strongest position.

How long will it be before DM pulls a master stroke and plays Tim Howard as a holding midfielder and Osman in goal? That should confuse the opposition. What a cunning plan!!!

So, it's time to move on, that game has been and gone, I'm still embarrassed and annoyed but life's too short. I can't control what goes on so best not worry about it. Come on you Blues, let's play Watford off the park and restore some pride. Give us back some dignity.

Onwards and upwards. Fingers crossed!
Lue Glover, Flint  (24/2/07)

What if..?

It seems fans who think we should keep hold of Moyes worry our stability would be ruined if we gamble on another manager. For example, Nick Harrison predicting a return to the 90s rather than a return to the 80s.

But, just let it enter your heads for a minute, what if we got in a good manager who wanted to play attacking attractive football? What if we had a manager who wanted to win things and not just settle for 10th place? What if we had a Board of Directors who shared this vision?

Arsenal are an example, they finished 6th with Rioch. You'd think that was a fairly decent finish ? they qualified for Europe and created some stability. But their visionary chairman took a risk. He sacked Rioch and appointed a little known Frenchman called Wenger... and the rest is history. Those fans who think we'd be reverting back to the 90s by sacking Moyes are more cautious than the man himself.

There's no ambition in our club and this is shared by some of the fans who are content with 10th because it's better than 14th. So get your banners out, chant the songs and demand some change!
Alan Clarke, Manchester  (24/2/07)

The Crucible

Anyone read Arthur Miller's The Crucible? Witch hunt; Wrong victim.

It's about money not errors in a substitution with a choice between the mediocre and the knackered. The caution of Moyes with his mediocre players probably has saved this club from being flamboyantly relegated. With others we could well have attacked our way to be with Leeds.

He manages limited resources in a crap ground with understandably the most bitter fans around.

He did not create this.
Ged Simpson, Northwich  (24/2/07)

Patience

I believe the only way you can fairly judge the performance of David Moyes is by comparing our present squad to the one he inherited. I further believe that, as long as Blue Bill is at the helm, we will always be a selling club.

An owner with the cash to do the job would never ever have sold Rooney, he would have built a team around him. I feel with some certainty that, if Moyes had the players, he would open it up more. He is trying to catch lightning in a bottle, as he juggles our massive expectations with our meagre cash flow and our less than appropriate ownership.

Blues Fans, we have waited for years to be in a position where games mean something in a positive way. Now they do. They will next season as well.
Mike Dolan, New York, USA  (23/2/07)

Enough is enough

I pay good money to support the club I love, and I get behind them. We have a manager with a limited budget in a club with no resources ? I would be deluding myself if I thought we should be above 5th or 6th.

On Wednesday ,Moyes was widely booed, but I thought the team looked tired, he tried to save a point and he failed, ah well... Moyes is doing a difficult job under difficult circumstances. Compared to the team he inherited, we are getting better and better. The likes of Ian Macdonald do not represent fans like me ? their protests only bring scorn and bad publicity upon us.
John Furlong, Bootle  (24/2/07)

Investment!?!

Spot on, Chris Ryan. Demonstrating now will do no good whatsoever and will just make us a laughing stock.

In a week when Liverpool have enhanced their position, we are just making ourselves look even less credible and suffering from an inferiority complex to the rest of the country with this demo nonsense. Has anyone ever heard of a team that is eighth (not playing the best, but 12 teams below us would swap) having a demo over investment? In fact, has anybody demonstrated against investment or a lack of it? Results and perhaps style of play, but about money when the Club has something like the 23rd highest income of all the hundreds or thousands of clubs on this planet? Truly pathetic!!!
Karl Masters, Chatham, Kent  (24/2/07)

The end...?

It would appear that the endgame has begun. Boos resounding around Goodison, banners about to be unfurled at matches, etc. The question is, who will take the bullet? It should be Blue Bill and his rotund chum. Inevitably, it will be Moyes and Irvine. I don't think for an instant that Kenwright would sack Moyes, but I believe he will go of his own volition, following our probable 14th place finish after a string of shit results as per our alarmingly regular final phase collapse!
Tom Edwards, York  (24/02/07)

Timing

In relation to the renewed talk about new managers the fallout from Wednesday's game could have come at a better time. As a Republic of Ireland supporter, I have seen my fair share of managers coming and going over the last couple of years. None of it has been pretty and the way Steve Staunton was appointed last summer was an all time low for many Irish fans. The reason for this is that the world cup had just finished and a host of very decent international managers were looking for new challanges. Some got international posts, others club posts. Several who had done wonders at mid level international teams were linked with the Irish job and would have done wonders with our national team. Instead we got an absolute novice who has been a disaster.

Now, many of these same managers would have been very much interested in a club like Everton and would have had the experience to possibly bring us to that magical next level. Instead we hung on to Moyes and all these managers slipped off the radar.

I know that this is the usual 'ifs and buts' debate that is rather meaningless, but my point is this. We now all see that Moyes is not the answer. We all want to see a new manager in place. More importantly, Bill might be beginning to see it too. But it just seems like a golden opportunity after the failings of last season was ignored and we are now faced with a very poor pool of managerial replacements.

Come the close season, I fear that we will get all the usual suspects being touted around for the same couple of clubs, possibly with Everton included.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (24/2/07)

Who are 'WE'?

In his Spurs fiasco excuse Moyes used the term ?WE?. I presume he was referring to Irvine and if so the implication is that both of them operate on the same gloomy wavelength. Our over concentration on defence at the expense of attacking football would therefore be a predictable outcome. With no chance of him leaving in the near future Moyes is in urgent need of an assistant who does not reinforce his defensive mind set. The powers that be should break the nexus of two negative minded people in charge of the playing side. If Irvine were to take Osman with him that would be an added bonus.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (24/2/07)

Editor for next manager!

Passion, commitment, aggression, tactical knowledge, courage and a deep rooted hatred for negative/sterile football! No not the good long lost brother of the useless David Moyes (sorry Moyes zealots but after Wednesday he definitely is), but Michael - Toffeeweb editor!

Michael for Everton boss, rather him then that traitorous fool Andy Gray. Apologies Craig Taylor!
Luq Yussef, London  (23/2/07)

And they say Doddy's daft?

I must have missed something. I thought it was Moyes who fucked up on Wednesday night but clearly it was Kenwright making all those crazy substitutions hence the protest tomorrow. The Moyes apologists will clearly blame anybody rather than face up to the truth about their hero. And they say Doddy's daft?
Vic Walling, Cronton  (23/2/07)

Impulsive

Unfurl banners? Moyes Out? If I hadn't already realised, I've had guessed we'd lost a game. It's amazing how this mailbag fluctuates. The Moyes critics are silent whilst a run is on, and the Moyes apologists are silent when we play awfully and lose a game.

I agree that we're terribly defensive at times, maybe when we should be pushing for a win. And, yes, we don't play the superb football that we all yearn to see but who does? Man U and Arsenal. Don't kid yourselves that Portsmouth, Bolton, Reading, Liverpool, or even Chelsea are playing superb football. The former three are just happy to be where they are, something I can identify with to be honest. Perhaps the old boys with a nostalgic complex ('I can still remember the 80s as if they were yesterday...' - They were 20 years ago, 20 years!) don't accept second best but that's true in every aspect of life, the older members of a group remember when things were apparently better.

The simple fact is that most of the Moyes critics are right, Moyes CAN only take us this far. Without investment, we can't go any further. We'll always be battling around this area of the league, between 10th and 5th. That 4th place finish was miraculous. It won't happen consistently without the top four fucking up. There's a poverty trap in this league, if you're not playing good football you can't attract the better players and if you can't attract the better players, you won't play good football.

Outside investment is the only thing that can change this. We do need merceneries, there's no two ways about it. I like Bill Kenwright. I put myself in his position, as an Evertonian, and, yes, despite not having a huge cash surplus, I'd want to do my best for this club.

I can understand his position, but I do think if we want to push on then he needs to step aside. I don't think we need to get rid of Moyes at all, there's no other manager I trust to manage this side. There's no other manager I trust to bring in the quality that Moyes has. You may want a return to the 80s, but you may well get a return to the 90s with a huge squad of shite, playing gung-ho and losing more often than they win.
Nick Harrison, Liverpool  (23/02/07)

Latin Translation

In reply to Adam Carey's query for the latin translation of " Lets hope we nick a goal", I believe it is Dream Onus
Declan Burke, Ireland  (23/02/07)

Move along now, please.

The game against Spurs is burned in my memory. I have never, ever been so dissappointed in a Manager than that. I thought he had learnt from the City game. Apparently not. He well and truly goosed up the game. You need to know little about football to understand that.

For me it has raised serious question marks about his ability to achieve things, whilst I recognise the stability and talent he has brought to the club.

Again he has been honest and admitted a mistake. I like him for this because there are tossers who manage clubs who will not do this.

The point I would like to make is that though a half-hearted apology, I would not expect more he still wants us to get there i.e.to Europe Through self inflicted pressure it's over to you now Davey to get the next game right.
Eamonn Byrne, Shropshire  (23/02/07)

Blah, blah, blah!

Blah,blah,blah.... and so it goes on! Moyes out, Sack the Board, The team's crap, etc, etc etc. A good win tomorrow and it will be Europe here we come... What a manager Moyes is, Most talented team in living memory.... Will Evertonians ever change? Never.
Paul Runnicles, Wavertree  (23/2/07)

Moyes To Get Wat For D

Tomorrow's game at Watford could signal the end for Deadly Dave if Everton get beat. If the pressure starts to build on Kenwright over lack of investments and the team is being tonked every other week then what better way to deflect attention from yourself than giving the manager his P45?

Moyes is a dead man walking and when I spoke to Kenwright after Wednesday night's game I noticed a distinct change in attitude from him. Normally he can't do enough to defend Moyes but Wednesday was different; not once did he come to Deadly's defence. In fact, he walked away shaking his head as more and more fans started having a go at him.

23 years ago, Howard Kendall went down in Evertonian folklore when the Blues lifted the FA Cup against tomorrow's opponents, Watford. David Moyes's fate may well be sealed against the same team if we surrender as easily as we did against Spurs on Wednesday night. There is no way Kenwright will let Moyes come between him and his trainset, best friends or not. If its a choice between himself and Deadly Dave then there's only going to be one outcome. Deadly is toast.

I no longer go along with the theory that Moyes is untouchable. If Kenwright wants to stay in control of the club then something has to give and it wont be him thats for sure. Let's hope Kenwright makes the right move for once and puts the club and the fans before the feelings of the most inept manager ever to have worked in the top flight.

Watching Moyes's body language on Wednesday night was like watching a man on death row waiting for the chaplin to arrive to administer the last rites. Moyes has been found out; he is washed up and there is no way back for him now. If a race horse was as lame as him it would be put down. Let's hope Bungalow Bill puts Moyes out of his misery because now that's surely what it is.
Tony Marsh, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

Significance of Wednesday

Peter Fairburn does right to say that transfer funding is by no means the only criteria by which managers should be judged. Steve Coppell has got a 22 man squad together for less than £10 million at Reading and last time I looked they were a couple of places above us in the table. Both Rednapp and Allardyce have done very well with loan signings and at least you can get rid of them if they are not up to the job.

Far too much has been made of this funding issue and like Tony Marsh I believe that a number of Moyes's targets have turned him down due to the reputation he has for crap football.

The significance of last Wednesday's game was that at last the scales fell from the apologists' eyes and they began to see Moyes for what he is — a one dimensional manager who is simply out of his depth.
Dan Richardson, Hawarden  (23/2/07)

Up to the fans

Whenever people write into your site speculating on David Moyes future and any possible successor the post is invariably met with the same short response from yourselves: "Moyes is going nowhere, end of." I understand that this belief is based on the theory that Kenwright's faith in Moyes will not be lost no matter how low the club sinks or how bad the team plays. I personally totally disagree. I believe it is up to the fans whether Moyes keeps his job or not.

If the fans turn on a manager (as they did on Wednesday) in a sustained manner there isn't a chairman/manager relationship anywhere in the world that could survive. Once the fans unite and make clear their desire for change it cannot be ignored. If results/performances continue to swell the anti-Moyes brigade Kenwright will hit the panic button, sack Moyes and probably resign himself. There is no way either would continue for long if they knew that the vast majority of Evertonians had lost all belief in them. The problem is, though that Moyes's Everton are predictably unpredictable, and we will probably win 5-0 at Watford and be back to square one.
Tom Sullivan, Liverpool  (23/02/07)

Negative attitude

Sorry if I upset a few people for bringing up a little piece of Everton history but let us just for a moment cast our minds back to Saturday October 19th 2002. (Yeah yeah you all know what happened). We were drawing 1-1 with the hitherto unbeaten Arsenal at Goodison. With 10 minutes remaining the match could have gone either way. Moyes had Stubbs Gerrard, Alexanderson and Rooney on the bench. He had a decision to make, should he settle for what we had, drag off Radzinski and shore up the defence by putting Stubbs on and settle for a creditable draw. Or would he take a chance and throw on a kid who was yet to score in the Premiership and go for broke?

Well, I don?t have to remind anybody what his decision was. Moyes was brave enough to give it a go, it could have gone the other way, and no doubt people would have questioned the merit of throwing the kid on in such an important game when we had all the experience of Alan Stubbs who would have surely given us a point from the game. The decision of Moyes impressed me then, that was the Everton way, I liked the man, he had bottle and said all the right things.

I can hardly believe it is the same manager who did what he did on Wednesday night, ok so we didn?t have a Rooney to throw on, but we did have a lad who has already got a few goals under his belt and giving him 60 seconds when the game was all but lost wont do him any good at all. What the hell has happened to Moyes in this time, he is going more like Walter Smith every day. ?We want young fit footballers at this club? was the mantra issued by Moyes when he first took over; taking an obvious swipe at the Smith home for ageing footballers he inherited. Andy bloody Cole! Hello, I ask you.

Come on Bill, it's obvious that you are never going to sack Davey, and to be truthful I don?t really think that will be helpful at the moment, but as you own this club and can do whatever you bloody well like with it (Kirkby here we come whether we the fans want it or not) Have a word in Moyes ears will you. Remind him that Everton fans want to see more than 11 athletes sweating blood to earn a point at home. Believe it or not, we would like to be entertained, this negative attitude is coming from the manager, he is a stubborn bastard and won?t be told, but it must stop now. We know that he has it in you to go for it, as he have proved it in the past, so come on, get your finger out and lets start winning games by more than the odd goal.

If you don?t remind him Bill, then it will be us fans who will start voicing our disgust. Wednesdays booing was the very thin edge of a rather large wedge. We will not stand for it forever, and the trickle of stay away fans will turn into a flood before you know it. 55,000 all seated stadium! You?re having a laugh, if we carry on playing this boring negative football who exactly is going to fill it?
Shaun Sparke, Liverpool  (23/02/07)

Only, the best, in the cicumstances, is good enoug

In the week that Britney Spears went into rehab, one in a long list of celebs to do this, it's surprising to find that David Moyes has chosen to have a go at the fans instead of doing similar. He has come out this afternoon to criticize fans for their protest at Kenwright's lack of investment in the club. He states that it won't help the team and that the club has made big strides in recent times.

Well, I think poor football displays won't help the club. Poor tactics won't help the club. A manager who is in denial about his own effectiveness won't help the club. I don't see how Kenwright helps the club. I don't see how the board helps the club. At least by going along to the match the fans help the club by putting money in the coffers. Who the bloody hell is David Moyes to have a go at the fans who have shown loyalty beyond expectation, patience beyond belief? Maybe the fans should consider whether they want to watch this man and his team in future. He must be scared. MOYES OUT NOW!
Peete Stewart, London  (23/02/07)

Americans

The reason the Americans are now interested in Man city rather than Everton is that if you look at the top 20 richest clubs in the world at number 17 it's Manchester city not Everton. We aren't even in the top 20 although we are close to it.

This increased wealth is why they get investment even though they hav a reported £50 million debt compared to our £30 million. Also the investors don't care about "history & tradition," only money. They are loocking for an investment. I reckon they think it would cost too much to buy out Blue Bill as well.
Mat Jennions, Sheffield  (23/02/07)

Who do we get?

How about Tony Mowbray, Paul Hensaw? Very attack minded, he seems to want success,and I don't think he wants to stew in mediocrity like Moyes does.
Colin Potter, liverpool  (23/02/07)

Joint Managership?

That describes the answer to our problem. Moysie is a man of at least two parts. IMHO he can select a good player, at times at very reasonable prices, e.g. Lescott and Cahill. Bargain basement boys those two. Others like Arteta, Fernandes, Tim Howard, A.J. are all quality players at, generally speaking, fair prices.

Where Moyes falls down is in his approach to the way the team plays. As has been commented on so many times, he is obsessed by trying not to lose.

To this end he has bought one good striker and one complete failure. The latter should have disappeared in the January window and a striker of even average ability bought. Not to be, we ran the risk of AJ being unable to play with NO adequate replacement . We paid the penalty last Wednesday.

Moyes is no gambler, he wants to feel he'll get a point. He cannot bring himself to attack with players capable of doing so.

Why not let him manage up to a point but the actual way we perform on the field being handed to another more adventurous guy. Anybody any idea if we have such a person on the staff at present
Tim Lloyd, Stockport  (23/02/2007)

Not yet a fan

After the Spurs game I was less than plesed with the manager's contribution and, whilst I can put it down to the fact he made a decision and got it wrong, I also have to remember it was not the first time but indeed one of many in a similar vein.

I understand he has done a lot in his time to move us on, I can't disagree that the squad we have now is better if short on numbers, therefore reducing us to a team that can get a result against any side in the Premiership but only if we have our best eleven players fit and up for it ? a situation almost impossible due to enevitable injury and suspension plus lapses in form.

So if we keep building up the numbers of good quality players year on year then again it can be said the manager is building well. I also believe the manager is dedicated to the job and strives to be up with all the latest inovations within the game and knows the coaching textbook inside out.

Its at this point that I am not yet a fan of the man for the football I watch both home and away seems to me to come from a blackboard where the players have to learn that when player A has the ball players C,D,E and F do this this and this. In my uneducated view he seems to treat the game and its tactics as though the game is predictable and can be choreographed as say a stage play ie actor A moves upstage whilst actors B, C & D move side and back.

Whist this can be done with a predictable stage show with soccer as soon as a ball is introduced it becomes very unpredictable and players have to deal with variations of pass, bounce, wind, rain, and therefore have to adapt to all situations, opposing teams also ensure nothing is predictable.

I believe those that go on to be top managers understand this and introduce a broad framework for their team to play within and then assemble players to fit roles and with the technical ability to enable them to improvise, think for themselves, and when the unpredictable happens the team as a whole sees this and responds to get things back on track.

I dont think our manager is confident enough yet to allow expression from his players and this is the reason for the disjointed hoof ball we are seeing,players are afraid to forget the blackboard.

Should he stay or go? That's a matter for the Board. They see the same games as us, they see the quality of player we now have so it is up to them to decide if we are utilising our playing assets to their full or do they consider that a search for a manager with a different approach to top players should be undertaken.

The owners of our club have a great responsibility to ever strive for the best and leave no stone unturned in that quest. As is often quoted 'Past performance is no indication of future growth'. Hence 'Not Yet a Fan'. UP THE BLUES
Ken Buckley, Buckley  (23/2/07)

Moyes IS delivering!

If, as is commonly believed, finishing positions are dictated by the cash supply available to managers, then Everton should be expected to finish 8th behind the Big Four, Newcastle, Boro and Spurs (see Peter Fairburn below). A glance at the Premier table would indicate that Mr Moyes is right on the button ? particularly as `the other three` are beneath us! IMWT!
Seb St.Clare, Harrogate  (23/2/07)

Bored, But Satisfied

Listen, my fellow bluenoses, who here can honestly say in the dark days of walker and smith etc etc, that we wouldn't have taken a top 8 finish? Ok our tactics are boring and we have some quailty players who are stifled by Moyes's defensvie tactics but he's not that bad is he?

I will defend him and stand by anyone at the helm of the club I love. I travel 600 miles round trip to come and watch my blues and I would rather watch us draw 0-0 that loose 3-0 to say ermmmmmm... Tranmere or 4-0 to Villa.

Please if we're positive then maybe it won't be that bad. Hold your heads high we'll be back sooner rather than later.

Crap the other night but 3 points tomorow. NSNO
Mike Cummins, West Susex  (23/2/07)

What do you all expect?

I wasn't at all surprised with our 1-2 defeat at the hands of Tottenham. Does nobody understand out there that the talent on the pitch is great, the likes of Arteta, Cahill, Anichebe, Lescott etc. We lost Bent because he was left alone in attack. How long do we have to put up with Moyes's defensive ways. How can we be happy with 8th in the Division. Come on, fans ? demand more.
Debra Donoghue, Warrington  (23/2/07)

Investment

I have to disagree with Michael on the case of "investment dosen't matter". Of course it does; would Beattie be an Evertonian if we had investment? Of course NOT. Would he have been playing against Spurs if we had investment? Of course NOT. Did you really think that we was going to beat Spurs with the team that was available? I certainly did NOT. [SNIP]
Simon Jones, Birmingham  (23/2/07)

Fans Protest

I'm concerned to learn of the fans' protest arranged for tomorrow's game at Watford. Fans have every right to voice opinions positive or negative but I feel protesting during the season especially at a time we need to be united in our pursuit of Europe could backfire on us. All clubs in turmoil suffer as a result of negativity as we should know from previous years. What signals are we sending to current players like Arteta who may or may not be considering pastures new? Or even players interested in joining our club? Just feel a protest would be more beneficial to everyone at the end of the season.
Chris Ryan, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

Andy Gray for Manager, Thats Who!

We nearly got him a few years back (before the Kendall III experience) and it seemed certain he was coming but Johnson dithered (like David) and Gray extended his Sky deal.

Passion, love for playing football, attacking minded, has Blue in his heart, reads the games well, Is tactically aware, would lift the the atmosphere of the club, and has been stated a number of times saying he would like to get back into the game one day.

Some may see it as a gamble but there is know one else out there that has the credentials Everton FC deserve that would also seriously consider managing the club.

I can't totally believe im doing it but I have to admit that its time for a change, Moyes has ran out of ideas. He came in and took us up as many steps as he could. To move to the next level it's time for something new.
Craig Taylor, Leicester  (22/2/07)

Moyes's money

Just in response to Peter Fairburn's comparison of Moyes's and Jol's spending, it is worth pointing out that, although Jol has spent only a few million more, he has spent it in half the time, and had a much bigger, younger, more talented squad to begin with! But it certainly makes for interesting reading when papers are suggesting that fans might demonstrate against Bill's lack of investment.

On another issue, I read the Beattie interview on evertonfc with interest. His belief that "Evertonians would take a bad performance from anyone as long as they put the work-rate in" could explain the currrent malaise in our footballing ability!
Anderw Humphrey, London  (22/2/07)

Green- not blue-eyed

Is the fundamental problem with Moyes that, as a player, he never realised the big-time and the fortunes that go with it? Could it be that unless you have played in the lower leagues then you just don't cut it with Moyes? If you are a young prodigy, a la Rooney or Kissock, or a youthful exuberant raw talent as Anichebe and Vaughan, you just haven't served your dues?

After all Osman had to serve time on loan before he was considered good enough. I'm sure if you asked these questions of Duncan, Rooney, Jeffers and Radinski. you'd get an interesting response. So is this the reason that players like Carsley are persisted with and even lauded in the press for "professionalism"? Is this how a desperately out-of-form, touch and confidence Beattie can stay on the pitch against Tottenham when Vaughan gets a minute of added on time to impress?

No-one, but no-one is bigger than the club; having given us the great tag ? the People's club ? Moyes must listen to the people or quite simply go. A manager has to manage the collective and the individual player but he has to manage his own personal traits as well.
Vin Ferguson, Liverpool  (23/02/07)

Re: New Investment

In response to Alan McMillan's post, I think it's clear what Man City have got! A super casino sponsored by Big American money hungry moguls being built about 200 yards away! It ain't pretty but I do think our own proposed Hard Rock/Tesco Stadium has a way to go before we can get something similar!

There is no real regeneration in Kirkby, but check out the proposals for Beswick and Sports City in Manchester! The place is about to rocket economically and if you were a rich - definately American - investor, where would you put your money? Admittedly Billy has no inclination to bother trying to find out if investment is worth looking into cos he doesn't want to relinquish his hold on EFC. We're stumped and pretty peeed off!

Ever tried asking Bill if we are gonna get any investment? Maybe we should all ask for some accountability at the next match??? Unfurl those banners people!
Matt Coulson, Manchester - Unfortunately  (23/2/07)

Kenwright

I wonder what the odds would be on Kenwright coming out in the next few weeks and saying "I am in talks with an investor but it's early days, so I don't want to reveal too much yet" just to try and calm us down? It's not as if he hasn't come out with something like this before is it? He used the Fortress bullshit to get what he wanted.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (23/2/07)

A River in Egypt...

No question that the result against Tottenham and Moyes? craven tactics that contributed to it are a disgrace and shameful, but the real culprit to me was Beattie. Naysmith played well when he subbed for Anichebe and the move did give us more opportunities to pressure Spurs.

The problem was that Beattie was, as usual, Beattie. He?s not a solo forward and frankly it didn?t seem to me that he looked like a man who had an opportunity to rehabilitate his tattered reputation.

Everything looked like a chore. Osman was also useless going forward. Twice he had chances that were thrown away by weak shots. I don?t think he has the skill or the physique for this level. These are two players we could sell and not notice if it wasn?t in the Echo.

Moyes is in denial about himself and others. He describes decisions that have been universally condemned as ?brave? and endorsed performances that were clearly inadequate.

The only reason Beattie is still favoured over Vaughan and Anichebe is that to do otherwise would be to admit to an error and that David Moyes will never do.
Peter Fearon, Liverpool  (23/02/07)

Who in next?

If Mr Moyes was to leave (hopefully kicked out after Wednesdays debacle!),who would you have as our next manager?

Is their anybody out there who can take us to the next level?

Give me names,i'm desperate for answers!
Paul Henshaw, Liverpool  (23/02/2006)

New Investment

I read somewhere yesterday that Man City are the latest club to be linked with an American investor. Somebody set me straight here - what do they have that we have not?

What makes them a more viable economic investment than us? They do not own their own ground, we do; they do not have as large a fan base as us; their history & tradition is not as rich as ours; certainly their "brand" is nowhere near as string as ours. So what the fuck is up??

There ARE people out there willing to invest money, so why are we not attracting them? BK needs to ask himself a few harsh questions.

P.S. Luq, what happened in Ireland re Religion happened in the North; a UK jurisdiction. Please do not tar us all with the same bigoted brush!
Alan McMillan, Dublin  (23/02/2007)

Comparisons

I have just read Peter Fairburn's artilce below and was interested to see that Spurs under Jol have not spent that much more than us under Moyes. We obviously don't have the cash to match the 'big four' so it would seem that Spurs are one of the clubs we can compare ourselves to.

While you never know which Spurs will turn up on the day, if they could manage to gain some consistancy they would soar. They play wonderful football to watch, and win well on their day. While the consistancy issue would be a disappointment for fans, they look to be on an upward curve. Jol has done this with roughly the same cash as ourselves and without having to flirt with relegation every other season. A five-year plan with substance I reckon.

It has been Jol's body language and approach that has inpressed me the most though. To watch him give the post-match interview the other night and see how relaxed and open he was in contrast to Moyes was an eye-opener. The man looks to have a set plan in mind and looks to be going somewhere with the team. He just didn't look like any type of result would rattle him. Moyes, in contrast, is one step forward, one step back. He also has the look of a frightened rabbit in front of the cameras every time we have a poor result. He just looks out of his depth.

Every lesser-known manager is a gamble when first taken on, and no one had ever heard of Jol on his appointment. But when you see how managers react in front of the camera after a couple of seasons, and after games like Wednesday's, you do have to wonder about their employers. Why persevere with a struggling manager, and why keep throwing limited funds at him?
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (23/2/07)

Doddy`s right!

Doddy`s right,21 points should be a doddle.And playing HEF (or should that be HOOF?)we need to score only 5-yes FIVE-more goals!

That`s five 1-0s and six 0-0s.Easy eh?,and with the best defensive coach to come out of Scotland who needs forwards?

With Hibbo and Sandro fit,we can field five full-backs at Watford but what a pity we let Weirdo go to Rangers!

Up the Blues!
Jim Alport, Little Stanney  (23/2/07)

Boring

We talk about tactics, players and results, but the fundamental issue here is that watching Everton has never been more boring ? and when it's a big part of your life, it hurts.

We know what's going to happen; we know how matches are going to unfold. It's always tight, and there are two patterns - a goal for us and an hour of defence; a goal for them and its headless chicken time.

Arteta excepted, no player does anything surprising. We are always solid and hardworking, never exciting or even interesting. The boredom is why we get so tetchy with transfer window inactivity ? anything to relieve the predictability.

The boredom is why Moyes gets a slagging despite a general consolidation (even that word is boring). The boredom is why Alan Green and the rest of the media hate us; there's never anything to say. Maybe this dull period is rite of passage, a platform to build on.

Maybe it's not a phase, but simply the way it is now. God, I'm even boring myself now. Saved you a job, Moyesey...
duncan lennard, somerset  (22/02/07)

Feedback on Matt Willey article on the Banana Skin

Dear Editor

Sadly, Matt Willey's article is spot on in terms of analysis and it probably reflect the depth of feeling currently prevalent amongst Everton fans. We must be more positive in our outlook both on and off the field. We have gifted youngsters coming through the ranks and it might be worth risking a debut for one or two of these young ones whom I'm sure will run their socks off their club.

Thanks to Matt Willey for submitting his article. I would not have used such strong language but I understand his frustration and I agree with his sentiments.
David Bodian, Watford  (23/02/2007)

Spin Doctors

Has anyone read the bollocks written by David Prentice in todays Echo? That paper may as well be a front for Liverpool!

Disgrace to supporters intelligence!
Luq Yussef, London  (23/2/07)

Odds on?

Just on paddypower.com and Moyes is 50/1 to get the boot by the end of the season. Looks like more of the same til at least christmas 2007
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (23/2/7)

Financing my arse

Richard I know you probably have a shrine at home to the ginger one and your beloved Chairman BS Billy and fair play to you having your own viewpoint but don't dare suggest Billy Liar is "financing" our new stadium. If the stadium in Kirby comes off it will have nothing to do with his or Wyness' financial nous it will be at the knockdown sacrifice of the only remaining asset they have yet to strip from Everton FC and that is Goodison Park itself.

Once GP goes they will have sweet fa left to sell but the players themselves, then again once the bonuses go I don't suppose Billy's lapdog Wyness will hang around as the free meal ticket will have run dry.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (23/02/07)

Accepted!

I wholly accept your apology as it takes balls to admit your mistakes. I simply wish Moyes had an atom of courage to do the right thing and resign immediately! Moyes version of bravery is playing five defenders, as said by Moyes himself!

Religion is a powerful thing and although it generally is a means to better oneself, it can lead to violent events like in Ireland and Glasgow. So I think all posters should avoid using it on this site again unless relevant. Anyway again I must say I respect Mr Sparke for his apology email, but we will be at war again in regards to Everton supposed future I'm sure of it.

Speaking of future, Everton face a must win game at Watford tomorrow. Moyes will never learn from his mistakes, so he has at least got to be more counter-defensive if Everton are to defeat Watford. Nothing be victory is good enough and if it doesn't happen, the board and all the shareholders, should demand some damning answers immediately! The clock is ticking.....
Luq Yussef, London  (23/2/07)

One Dimensional Moyes

Just when you thought we could "kick on" and move close to a european spot we are left looking over our shoulder to see if we can ensure a finish in the top 10.

That is the frustration by all who air their views on this site.

I have felt for a long time that our manager is one dimensionable, he stumbled accross this one up front system 2 years ago that brought us the embarrassment of the Chapions league and the UEFA cup.

Not only did we fail to attract new players on the back of that season, with the allure of european football he proved that tactically in my opinion he will never mix it with the big boys.

Time and time again he shows his limitations, he still insists that one up front is our best option.

Why can't we play another way???

Every time he reverts to 4 4 2 or some other kind of system he scraps it at some stage during the game and reverts back.

Am I in the minority who feels for James Beattie, last season he carried us up front on his own and most weeks was our best player.

I agree that he would be the first to admit that he has n't reached the heights that we probably expected of him, but has he been given a chance in an extended run along side Andy Johnson in an attacking system.

Before Moyes got his hands on Beattie he was a fringe England player. We have invested a lot of money in him and have not been fair to the lad.

I thought we bought Johnson to partner him NOT replace him.

His use of fullbacks as his substitutions on Tuesday night just proved his lack of flair from the bench.

Had we lost 2 - 1 and used Vaughan and may be Da Silva I am sure that the fans would have clapped not booed, just on the basis that we had a go.

I am convinced that we have the basis of a good team in our midst however sadly our management team keep letting us and them down ontoo many ocassions

I am sorry but watching and supporting Everton is not very exciting anymore!
Kevin Bennett, Chester  (23.02.07)

Just typical!

How typical of the Mailbag that it should all kick off again as Everton go to only their second defeat in nine games. How illogical that calls for the manager's head should be orchestatrated whilst we hold on to EIGHTH spot with every chance of getting into Europe. How ironic to demand the Chairman`s resignation just at the point he is is preparing plans and financing for a great new stadium.

As I said in my post-match posting, the loss to Spurs was just that ? a disappointing night but by no means the end of our season. There are still eleven games to play ? that`s 33 points to play for and we could do with getting 21 of them. We shall need 18 by bedtime on Saturday.
Richard Dodd, Formby  (32/2/07)

Moyes's Record

Gary Hughes stated that he reckoned that Moyes has lost more games than he has won and conceded more goals than the team have scored under his managership. Well, Gary, the total figures (up to and including the Tottenham tactical debacle are as follows):

• Premiership P-188 W-72 D-45 L-71 GF-223 GA-248
• FA Cup P-12 W-4 D-3 L-5 GF-17 GA-19
• League Cup P-13 W-6 D-3 L-4 GF-22 GA-15
• UEFA Champions League P-2 W-0 D-0 L-2 GF-2 GA-4
• UEFA Cup P-2 W-1 D-0 L-1 GF-2 GA-5
  
  
• TOTALS P-217 W-83 D-51 L-83 GF-266 GA-291

I was, as well as few others I'm sure, surprised at the results overall. Only the FA Cup and the Champions League have seen us lose more matches than we have won, and he's exactly 50/50 at the moment overall.

In terms of goals, the average number of goals scored and conceded per match overall are 1.23 and 1.34 respectively, which, again, surprised me and no doubt a few others.
Steve Flanagan, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

Spurs...

I'm neither pro- nor anti-Moyes. Yes, he has steadied the ship but...

I cannot believe the way he directed the team against Spurs. We were the home side! It is not about attacking gung-ho and getting caught out but you park the bus in tight away games, not when you are having a good spell in the second half.

Not being very well versed in latin, could someone advise a translation of 'Let's hope we nick a goal'? They way we play these days insults our motto and we may need a new one to go with the new stadium!
Adam Carey, Berkshire  (23/2/07)

The Naysmith sub

'Despite all this, Everton dominated the first half-hour of the second half' ? Paul Trail.

To be fair it wasn't 'despite' the substitution that we dominated the second half. Everton had control of the midfield because of the substitution and we know that Arteta and Osman can score goals. I couldn't make any sense of the Hibbert substitution I think Moyes made a mistake, but I still think he's a great manager and the best man for Everton.

Remember how everone was criticizing Sven. Doesn't seem as bad now though does he?
Martin Cornforth, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

How long is the string?

It is a frequent statement in these columns that Moyes has had to assemble his squad `on a shoestring`. Now the truth of that depends on the length of the string but I can assure you that his is by no means the shortest in the box.

Leaving aside the Top Four billionaires, a trawl of other club`s squads shows that only Newcastle, Middlesbrough and Spurs have cost more than the £53M Moyes has expended (Jol`s bill to date is £62M). Now I do realise that around £30M of that has been raised by the sale (or trade with Man Utd!) of players seen as expendable but I am sure that Moyes has been very instumental in all those dealings.

The task of assembling a squad to play in a particular style is what differenciates the role of manager from that of a coach. Presumably ?although I am beginning to doubt it ? Moyes had in mind how he would require his signings (and they are all his) to play. Unfortunately, for a manager who can now boast of NINE years experience in the role, he is still riddled with doubts and uncertainties. It`s as if he wants to break out from the defensive mindset of his playing background but once he sees a problem then he retreats back into his shell.

Thus,Everton rarely `come from behind`, never go all out to win cup-ties and are at their least dominant in the last quarter.

Like all Evertonians, I desperately wanted Moyes to do well. Not just to have us around the half way mark but regularly ? and seriously ? doing well in the cups and challenging for a Uefa spot on a regular basis. Instead, we have seen a man so obsessed with `not conceding` that all thoughts of fulfilling the objective of the game ? scoring goals - is sublimated to it.

Occasionally, we see posts from Evertonians in the Preston area saying that Moyes is now replicating his performance as a manager with PNE(always falling short in play-offs etc) which would indicate that this is a man whose mindset has not developed and is unlikely to do so. My own take on the situation is that the Kenwright/Wyness demand is to regularly hit 10th spot and the `rabbit in the headlights` behaviour the manager displayed on Wednesday was the re-action of a man obsessed with `holding on to what we have` rather than gambling on trebling his winnings.

Truth is, as long as Blue Bill is in charge and as long as `Moysey` can cling to that 10th spot, we are most unlikely to see a change. The worry is that to see the back of him soon, Everton will have to have a pretty bad run in to the end of the season and who of us wants that to happen?
Peter Fairburn, Maghull  (23/2/07)

Revolt??

Just saw this on BBC Sport website:

Everton fans are lining up a protest on Saturday against chairman Bill Kenwright's lack of investment in the club. (Daily Mirror)
Seamus Murphy, Dundalk, Ireland  (23/2/07)

Indefensable

I have long been a defender of Moyes and his stewardship, in the belief that with one or two quality acquisitions, we would soon start to keep the ball on the ground and produce enterprising attractive football. Wednesday night?s performance however, has just about shat all over that faith.

Moyes talks about not having enough quality in our small squad, yet he constantly overlooks our younger players, hungry for first team action. Vaughan, for example, who seems to give the team a shot in the arm (along with the supporter?s every time he?s introduced), is constantly ignored except for the odd 30 second cameo. How long is he going to stick around waiting for his chance? If he?s old enough he?s good enough.

Then there's Da Silva. Surely if he is good enough for the bench, then he must be a better option than an average (at best), left back to come in to re-enforce the middle of the park.

I didn?t go to the derby at Anfield as I was in Ireland, but I watched it on the TV and sad to say even the local Man United and Chelsea supporters wanted Liverpool to beat us towards the end of the game, because of our defensive attitude. I?m not ashamed to say that I didn?t even try to defend our performance because I?m use to the drivel that we dish out every week. Over reliance on A.J., Cahill or an Arteta set piece is a disgrace, whilst we spend the next 85 minutes in our own half trying not to concede.

Our football is dull, unimaginative shite and needs to change. Supposedly we have some good young players, and as we?re neither likely to get into Europe nor get relegated this season, then surely it?s time to give these lads a chance, and to try to introduce a more positive attitude to our football.

Reading have refused to compromise their attractive style of football even though their players lack in quality, because their manager refuses to concede to a long ball approach and a defensive formation. Surely with our players, we have the capability of producing a similar style of football.

We have nothing to lose at this stage of the season, so this is the time for Moyes to change his attitude, or he risks losing his most avid supporters as we cannot and should not put up with this shite any longer.
Liam Reilly, London  (23/2/07)

Moyes: the real issue

What the Moyes debate really comes down to is how poor our footaball is under him.

Firstly, no one can doubt that the team have improved from the days of Walter Smith. The age of the squad has been reduced and we now have a core of young, hungry and talented footballers.

However, Moyes's tactics serves only to stifle their play. This perhaps can be summed up my Tim Cahill who, whilst a great box-to-box player, is poor on the ball and an average at best passer. The fact that he's thrived at Everton suggests that it's because Moyes's non-flowing game suits him. I suspect Cahill would look lost in a midfield like Spurs, Utd et al.

So my gripe comes to this: Yes, we have improved since Walter (you'd be a fool to think otherwise) but Moyes has simply employed Smith & Knox tactics with a higher calibre of player. As much as I enjoy a win, there are few games at Goodison over the last few years where we've beaten teams with good, attractive football and I've come away with a smile on my face.

I'm sure fans would have forgave at loss at home to Spurs if we were playing dynamic football and pressing to score goals. My personal opinion is that Moyes should perhaps re-evaluate his style or he'll face the wrath of fans on a more regular basis. If that occurs, he won't be in the job too long.
Dean Paton, Wirral  (23/2/07)

Our Beloved Moyes

I don't think Moyes needs a camp of supporters for him and one against him. I think he does (self destructs) pretty well on his own. I have gone from the emotions of high to the depths of the lowest low and have consoled myself with this very fact. Moyes is not the one to take us any further than what he has already. No repeats though. He doesn't have the class (personally and staff wise).

Too many misses and not enough hits with the transfer. He was never an attacking player and therefore cannot produce just that. You reproduce what you are. Now let's not crucify him after all I think most of us cannot do better. Except with the selections. Just be thankful we have Watford and Sheff Utd next. Or have I like Moyes put my foot in it again!
Patrick Rynhardt, South Africa  (23/2/07)

We have become Comfortably Numb!!!

After the debacle of Spurs on Wednesday I wanted Moyes out asap, he single handedly lost us the match with his terrible tactic and substitutions, and its not the first time.

But since then I've had time to calm down and weight up the matter and be truly honest im stuck, I don't know whether getting rid of Moyes is a good thing or a bad thing, and to be honest I think most Evetonians feel the same way despite some the letters I've seen on here.

If you weigh up the last 15 miserable years, '95 cup win apart ,he is the best manager we have had with regards to no relegation battle season after season and also the best squad player for player we have had in a good while, but the football is at times awful and predictable. The fact that the majority of blues don't know what's best breeds apathy because basically there is no answer so people stick with what they have in fear of the other side of the fence being worse. We know we can't compete with the top 4 sides but the club know that and it becomes acceptable to Moyes to say we need 40 points before we can push for Europe ? it's all spin because in truth the club is also stuck being Comfortably Numb and that's rubbed off on the rest of us.

To be honest, this is the worst time for the supporters to feel like that as we possibly have the biggest upheaval of all coming very soon ie, the ground move. I think Kirkby is the wrong move but we need to voice our opinions as one. How we do that I wish I knew. At the moment, Everton feel like the old penniless pensioner who is being made to move from its damp run down family home by its spoilt kids because they want it out the way in some new old people's home out of the way and less trouble.

We as supporters need to voice our opinions contructively but loud and clear. Answers on a postcard please. But to be honest not sure about Moyes but defo NO TO KIRKBY!!!!!!
Alex Mather, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

I apologise Luq

Luq in your letter ?Out of Order? you were allowed to make a personal attack upon my character implying I?ve deliberately used discriminatory language. I used the word Jihad clumsily and for that I apologise. I did not use this word with any single or group of contributors in mind; I did not intend it to refer to you. I regret using the term when others were available.

But you need to lighten up son, because beyond misplaced indignation your piece really makes no sense. I was making the point that many who have stood behind Moyes previously (including myself ? guardedly), perhaps had a rude awakening on Wednesday night and possibly re-evaluated their stance. I included a sly dig at the ?professional? Moyes detractors as an aside.

I have no religion and perhaps this has caused me to be insensitive to those who have; again, I aplogise.
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (23/02/07)

Moyes

I could not help but notice the new labouresque spin put on Wednesday's performance. The David Moyes official party line stated that we were completely and utterly outplayed by Spurs in the first half and changing to 4-5-1 at half time was absolutely necessary to curtail the threat of a rampant Spurs. This view has been readily accepted by both The Post and The Echo without question, not to mention radio pundits like Barry Horne & Graeme Sharp.

Well, I was at the match and I accept that Spurs were the better side in the first half but, as I recall, they had only one effort on goal and scored that courtsey of Leon Osman. Having been handed the initiative of a goal right on half time, we should have come out all gun's blazing for the second half; instead Moyes settled for a draw.

To play a lone striker you need the right personnel. Cahill behind Johnson has been relatively succsessful. Beattie as a lone striker is a proven disaster. Hoofing long balls up to Beattie (who can barely get his feet off the ground) is pointless. On the rare occasions he actually won a header, he then had to chase his own flicks. Even renowned long ball merchants like Wilkinson, Taylor & Allardice know you have to have someone on the end of nod-downs.

To win football matches you have to score goals; to score goals you have to attack; Moyes had no intention of doing either. Taking off Fernades, the only player besides Arteta who actually carried any threat, summed up Moyes's negativity, while handing the initiative to a Spurs team that must of thought 'These lot don't want to know, come on lads we can pinch this'.

I would like to point out to the Moyes apologists that, in five years, he has taken us from a poor team to an average one. I am a realist and I accept that bridging the gap to the top four is almost impossible, but I aspire to more than this.

One freak 4th place finish does not excuse exiting every cup competition at the first hurdle. It does not excuse humiliating hammerings by the likes of West Brom, Aston Villa, Man City & Dynamo Bucharest (not to mention a certain 7-0 humiliation). It does not excuse our lowest ever points total or lowest ever goals scored in a season.

While I do not have the details to hand, I would be willing to bet that, under Moyes, we lost more games than we have won & we have conceded more goals than we have scored. Enough is enough. For the record we should offer Gus Hiddink double his current salary to put us back where we belong amongst the elite of English Football.
Gary Hughes, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

Our Average, Mid-table Sqaud

It is starting to become a little bit irritating the increasing number of supporters who are subscribing to the ?we demand Europe? club. My rough evaluation of the squad is;

• Class: Arteta, Yobo
• Good: Johnson, Cahill, Howard, Lescott, Valente
• Average: Hibbert, Pistone, Neville, Carsley, Osman
• Dodgy: Naysmith, VdM, McFadden, Beattie, Wright
• Unproven: Vaughan, Anichebe, Da Silva, Fernandes

I simply don?t think we have a squad good enough to be any higher than mid-table, never mind Europe. I think Moyes?s tactics should be excused from Wednesday night?s defeat considering the small, uneven pool of quality to pick from in the first place.

A couple of class players and a handful of good one?s isn?t good enough for Europe.
Alex Kellett, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

Start listening, Davey

Start listening to what the fans think. Yes, listen to radio phone-ins, they will only be constructive. You're only a relativley young manager and I get the impression you think you know it all, and neither fan or player dare question your game plan. Well, it's about time you started listening to constructive criticism or say goodbye to ANY job you choose to go into.
Colin Malone, Wirral  (23/2/07)

Kenwright Out

At last. Fans are waking up. It is becoming clear that Kenwright has to go. He has been involved with this club for over 15 years. he was responsible for or had a say in the departure of Joe Royle, never said a word against Johnson, we never heard a squeak when Dunc was sold to the Barcodes, masterminded the Kings Dock project and the Fortress funding. Instigated the Rooney transfer despite assuring us that he would not be sold and now persists with a manager who indeed has done well but who now has reached his level of incompetence, and he seems determined to move the club out of its home city.

With regard to Moyes I cannot accept that ?he is a young manager learning his trade? anymore. The man has had five seasons and yes we have better players in some areas but the football or lack of it is testament to his negative thinking. I believe his glass is always half empty, and, that mentality is passed on to the players. To be successful you need to have belief and a will to win, after last night Moyes showed that he had neither.

Finally it is ridiculous to think that Moyes has any control over wages etc, he will look to get players in and it is ultimately Kenwright after advice from Wyness who will decide if a player is signed. Everton FC are at the biggest crossroad in its history and we have no-one at the helm who can drive the club forward; Kenwright has no intention of giving up his toy, the man is obsessed with being Chairman of HIS CLUB,

And if he did have the balls to sack Moyes, who in their right mind would come to manage a club run by a visionless, myopic theatre impresario and a self-indulgent chief exec? The move to Kirkby is wrong ? ask the fanbase ? this is another area where the Chairman will erode the value of what Everton Football Club is all about.

KENWRIGHT, FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYTHING EVERTON RESIGN - GO, JUST GO, AND TAKE MR MOYES AND HIS NEGATIVITY WITH YOU.
Steve Sweeney, Prescot  (23/2/07)

Spurs reaction!

I am utterly depressed after that display. We should not really be surprised as it's nothing we haven't seen before in terms of negativity. Remember Man City? 1-0 up with 20 seconds remaining and Moyes brings off AJ and puts Weir on which adds an extra 30 seconds which City score in!

What depresses me even more is a lot of our supporters actually just seem to accept that it is the norm for Everton to be shit. I can still see us outclassing teams in the 80s as if it was yesterday. We are still the 4TH MOST SUCCESSFUL club in the country but are not much acting like it. Bill Kenwright you should hang your head in shame.

Take Wednesday night's events for instance. Our manager states that we didn't really have much to choose from as Cahill, AJ and AvdM where all out but shouldn't he have strengthened the squad then? Whilst this debacle was unfolding, our gobshite neighbours where beating the Champions of Europe on their own patch just to outline the gulf between the two clubs. I hate to say it but Mr Spanish waiter himself may have been right in calling us a small club! Not in our history or tradition but by the way we now conduct ourselves.

Let's all stand up now and try and force 'Blue Bill' and I use that term loosley to sell our club. The owner of Dell computers is actively seeking a Premiership club so why not ours? Even Man City who are a joke have got some interested parties. All Kenwright, Wyness, Elstone and other muppets at the club have done is sack staff who are Evertonians and sell off lots of assets we had to try and create an image of productivity even though it isn't reflected in the transfer market !

As for Moyes I can't make my mind up on him. He is so negative and never knows how to change a game and my other criticism is the way we play. I have heard people say he hasn't got much choice but look at George Burley, all his teams knock the ball about even though they don't have great players. We just hoof it up whether AJ is there or not.

Let's get shut of Kenwright and maybe Moyes and let's take our club back. We are THE BEST FANS IN THE WORLD so let's start acting like it! We must do something now or simply get used to watching more of the same whilst the Infidels from across the park continue to thrive and continue to make shithouse comments about us!

NIL SATIS
Barry Cass, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

In Two Minds

Most of the time I support Moyse, but the last 10/15mins last night was unacceptable. Let's still remember though that, with about 16 minutes left, pretty much all the Gwladys street were singing Moyse's name. To suggest it's only Doddy an 3 others that want to keep Moyse is extreme.

I want to like Moyse, and most of the time I do. Sadly, the most frustrating thing is though, the escense he puts on the importance of the first goal. Can anyone remember a game in the last 2/3 years where we have won having been behind?

Last night the Naysmith decision was brilliant, a good attacking move. Victor, and Beats are too similar, and Beats was working harder. The first half because Keane was coming deep, they out-umbered us in midfield. Naysmith coming on was not defensive. The lad did well, and linked up nicely.

Hibbert is great for us. I hope nobody blames him. It was Moyse's fault, Just like the Man City home game. I guess noboddy knows why he did not put Vaughan on instead.

We have been playing well, we are definately safe. Let's just see where we are come May before anyone gets sacked.

Although £33 for ticket and £3.40 a pint, makes it diffcult to be patient, doesn't it!!
Dan O'Brien, Liverpool  (23/2/07)

Moyes: For/Against

Having read various forae (and witnessed first hand) the events against Spurs the other night, The Moyes in crowd constantly quote:

• We're a better team now than in Walter's day
• We're a top ten side now without the threat of relegation
• He's making do with the lack of investment from the Board
• Who would you get in his place?

All fairly valid points. But what they fail to understand is that Moyes is no better than a 'safe' year in/year out, mid-table, get-your-40-points manager who, in achieving his objectives, plays the most turgid/negative shite witnessed at Goodison in a life time..

My question is this: OK, given Kenwright will never put us in the top 4 'elite' surely theres 'someone' out there who can make us a top ten side without the turgid shite tactics Moyes serves up week in/week out...

All things considered: Moyes out ASAP!
Mike Helsby, Rainhill, Merseyside  (22/2/07)

Response to Steven Flynn

Yes I agree! The goal count is awful, truly awful! I had a small (tongue in cheek) bet at the start of the season, that Arteta would be our leading scorer. Oh how I laughed at the time! I based this decision on a number of factors. The first being, we are boring, clueless, unable! Can we score a goal from good football please, instead of relying on free-kicks, pens etc! Oh how I could go on.....
Mugsie Rimmer, Southport  (22/2/07)

Every fog has his day

I have been watching the heat generated by last night's result, and the venom being poured on David Moyes by the majority of the contributors, with a few brave souls defending him. The sad truth is that both sides are right: Moyes has brought much-needed stability to the club, and moved us from perennial relegation candidates to (usually) reliable mid-table nonentities. It may be sad, but it is progress, and for such small mercies we should be grateful.

However, it is also clear that he is not the man to move us further up the foodchain. If the Board truly has the courage to try to make it with the big boys, it will need to make a number of changes, including the manager. On the basis of the evidence thus far, it doesn't seem as though Bill and friends have such an ambition, and they may be happy to keep Everton FC as their pet plaything, in mid-table mediocrity.

But don't blame Moyes; he has done the best he can, and Everton is better off because of him. But enough, already. If we want change, it is Bill needs the 'advice', not Moyes.
Paul Abel, Concord, CT, USA  (22/2/07)

Must they stay only memories

I wrote to you after our European games & the airport fiasco saying "Enough is enough; after 47 yrs that's it I'm finished" The effort & expense was to much. You sarcasticlly wished me a happy retirement.. Well its been OK! honestly, sometimes feeling very sad but more often quite smug about doing the right thing.

I still love the club and continue to read this web and live every second of games on TV or Radio. But never been to a match since? ... Until last night...

Oh my god what a night to choose. I had some relatives visiting who are Spurs supporters, so we all went to Goodison. No point in adding my comments to those already very well presented both here and elsewhere. But this may be of interest: while not being in raptures over their own team's performance, these Spurs fans could not understand how or why Evertonians have accepted such ultra-defensive crap week after week with relativly little public dissatisfaction and still continue to turn up....

My "retirement" was partly encouraged due to age and some disability; after this sample it really is not worth any effort to return. Perhaps in the short term, many of you should join me (although I would never encourage total desertion), if only to show the so called powers that be what could happen.

Vastly reduced attendances and obvious subsequent financial loss is possibly the only thing that might (and only might) make Bill & his cronies consider the situation seriously. They are tearing apart the pride honour & dignity of a wonderful historical Football Club.

At present, unless their attitude changes and some investment is found and/or allowed, it's so sad & sorrowful to say, but Everton FC are just like me, past their glorious best and sadly now just hanging on to wonderful memories...

ps: Its so hard to convince my grandkids we are still the best...
Jimmy Martyn, Runcorn  (22/2/07)

No more apologies please

That frankly was a disaster ? and not the first. I was hugely disappointed with our performance at Anfield ? negative wasn't the word for it, but Moyes somehow managed to surpass it last night. Once again, Stubbs is selected, forcing us to play much deeper than we need to, giving Berbatov an open invitation to run at us.

I was praying Osman would be overlooked but no ? and Moyes wonders why we were overrun in the middle of the park... what exactly did he expect? Osman was dispossessed with consummate ease for the first goal, had a bagful of chances but was all too easily intimidated and as a consequence ended up snatching at his goal attempts. Cahill would have gone though the same defenders just to get a shot on goal.

Once again, he chooses Anichebe to partner Beattie which simply doesn't work; however, Beattie did seem to play well alongside Vaughan in a previous outing with the latter scoring a well-worked goal with an assist from Beattie. Unfortunately, he over-elaborated with his goal celebration, much to the displeasure of Moyes, and hasn't really figured since.

Naysmith isn't considered good enough to play in his recognised position but evidently has become an accomplished midfielder only to be replaced ? you guessed it ? by another defender whilst we had a recognised midfielder on the bench. Sadly, were Moyes is concerned, it's become a game of mindless musical chairs and it makes for very poor entertainment. Thankfully the Goodison faithful have at last found their voice: enough is enough.
Gerry Western, London  (22/2/07)

Let's get behind Moyes!

We have made heaps of progress since Moyes took over. He has gradually improved the squad lowering the age and increasing the quality. There seems to be a great team spirit with every player willing to battle in matches (Van der Meyde maybe excepted). Everyone bangs on about the Krøldrup fiasco but Moyes has brought in a lot of great players (Yobo, Cahill, Arteta, AJ), as well as getting the best out of some average players.

Our style of play is of course the biggest worry, with it too often being scrappy, physical and generally quite ugly. Moyes is certainly a little cautious at times and yes that substitution was too negative. He is too reliant on Osman who shouldn't be in the team every game. However at times we have played exciting dynamic football (vs Liverpool, Spurs and Newcastle).

I personally think it is crazy to call for a manager's head who has got his team in eighth place and in contention for Europe. Many fans would have settled for that before the season started! As well as thrashing Liverpool 3-0 in a great derby win!

The calls for Moyes head are pathetic and too reactionary. Let's calm down and think this through.
Tim Fagan, Wirral  (22/2/07)

Lightswitch moment for many at Goodison last night

Just thought I'd add my tuppeny worth after the debacle last night. I'm still fuming.

I will be always be grateful to Moyes for stabilising the rudderless ship when he joined 5 years ago and, deep down, I know that he has Everton at heart, but honestly ? enough is enough. I don't think that an organised demonstration could add more than the spontaneous outburst of heartfelt disgust from the crowd last night.

The reaction was all the more powerful because it was unplanned. I've been watching the Blues for about 45 years and I must admit that the intensity of feeling shocked me ? and yes I've seen plenty of occasions when cushions were hurled from the stands in disgust.

If something doesn't happen soon, you can forget about a move to Kirkby as the only way we can move there and make a success of it is to take a reasonably successful and entertaining team with us. With the neanderthal football style of the current manager, I can see crowds dropping to disastrous proportions ? that's even before the added loss of support from those traditionalists who do not want to move outside the city boundaries.

Like lots of others, I think Moyes has taken us as far as he can. We've the nucleus of good squad, albeit lacking in pace and balance, but it's now surely time time to handover the reins?

I never thought I'd be saying it, let alone booing at an Everton home match, but "Moyes out!"
Ray Robinson, Warrington  (22/2/07)

Simple

You cannot defend what went on last night. There is no point trying to give explainations or why. We want Europe, the players want Europe and we bring on two full backs to win a game! The Moysey honesty was revealing and the Phil Neville comments on our support sickening. Moyes fucked up, it is that simple.
Eamonn Byrne, Shropshire  (22/2/07)

Banners

I've got a good idea: what I'd like to see on banners around the ground 'Fourth most successful club in the history of English football WLTM wealthy investor with view to a long-term relationship'.

Alternatively 'Kenwright out' will do!
Carolyn Hayre, Preston  (22/2/07)

Psychology of the Game

Like it or not, ?Sports Psychology? plays a significant role in all professional sport these days, where any slight advantage can mean the difference between winning and losing. I must assume that the Everton players have access to a ?Sports Psychologist? even if it?s just to keep up with the other Premier League clubs.

So, last night, what was the psychological impact of substituting a strong central midfield player with a defensive right-back with six minutes of the game left to play?

To the Spurs players it said ?The opposition are going to defend deep for the remainder of the game. Just keep attacking as you have nothing to worry about defensively?.

To the Everton players it said ?I don?t believe you can win the game lads and I don?t believe you can hold out without conceding again in the last six minutes. Actually, you?re not good enough?.

To the Everton fans it said ?I?m not willing to gamble losing the one point we have to possibly gain three points that would take us nearer to a top-six place. I?m not brave enough?.

Of course, great managers don?t need a psychologist, as it?s called ?man management? or being a ?motivator?. Brian Clough was a great Manager; he wasn?t a great tactician but he was a great motivator.

So Davie you have, in one indefensible substitution (the latest in a history of mindboggling substitutions, both in the players involved and the timing of your substitutions), probably ruined all the motivational work put in with the players this season. Well done!
Bob Carlton, Ormskirk  (22/2/07)

Splitting the fans

If Moyes & Kenwright read this website, they will be delighted at the tiny hardcore of fans who refuse to countenance that anything untoward happened last night. They have suceeded in pitting fan against fan and will use the hardcore to justify any action or more accurately inaction that they take.

As I vented my spleen like never before, I noticed, to my right, that I was getting daggers off someone who obviously could see no wrong in what was going on. I ignored him and continued to pour bile at Moyes but I can only see the atmosphere in the ground getting worse. Moyes has done this and for that I want him out as much for his managerial incompetence

For the record and for anyone still out there who still wants Moyes as manager, last night's reaction, which was so richly deserved, had absolutely nothing to do with:

• spending power,
• qualifying or not for Europe,
• injuries, or
• the fact that we actually lost the game.
  It has everything to do with Moyes's obsession with defence and his willingness to sacrifice the self-respect of the fans and the club to pursue this obsession. The fact that he could not bring himslef to acknowledge his error means, for me, the man is beyond contempt and is unbelievably arrogant

  Can any Moyes supporter explain to me why, when at home, he did not bring on Vaughan to try and win the game? In truth, there is no explanation, no excuse and if he can't take a risk with nothing to lose we only have the football equivalent of purgatory to look forward to. The fact the some Reds wanted to talk more about our game than theirs speaks volumes.

  Finally, my advice to anyone anyone who is thinking of quitting is not to do so but instead, like myself, to make bloody sure that the most negative miserable influence we have ever experienced leaves Goodison asap and long long before I do.

  Moyes out! Moyes out!! Moyes out!!!
  John Doolan, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Time's up Davie

I, like I suspect most, have been in neither the pro- nor anti-Moyes camp but last night has really been the last straw for me, and judging by the reaction of the Goodison crowd it was one negative move too much.

There has always been a section of evertonians that were anti-Moyes but i suspect they have grown in number as people seem to have had enough. And they are absolutely right. Rafa Benitez deemed us a small club because we are acting like one and that is down to the actions of the manager.

I dunno about anyone else but in my opinion this man bears no resmblance to the man who took the reigns some 5 years ago. So far this season he set himself the ambitious target of avoiding relegation, said we are a smaller club than Liverpool and now surrenders a game to a club below us in the league by playing for a draw at home! It really is embarrassing. He is actually making a lauging stock of us. It's time for change while we still have some quality players at the club that a new manager will be able to work with.

I remember a couple of years ago at Goodison playing Southampton; it was one-all with time almost up and Southampton had a corner. They decided not to put the corner into the box and instead played the ball back down the line in an attempt to run down the clock and settle for the draw. Anyway they ended up losing the ball and Radzinski got the ball and scored the winner. I remember the comentator saying Everton got their reward for going for the win and Southampton got what they deserved for their negativity.

Last night we got exactly what our negative tactics deserved and proved that when push comes to shove our manager hasn't got the bollocks to go for it. Heartbreaking.
Seamus Murphy, Dundalk, Ireland  (22/2/07)

Kenwright Out First, Moyes Next

I agree with the sentiments expressed by your correspondents concerning Moyes but if we are going to have protests and get rid of people, let's be clear we need to start with Kenwright. He needs hauling before the shareholders to explain his lack of success in finding investment. With the prospect of additional television money next season there has never been a better time to attract new finance. True, we need to be careful but I do not believe it's that dificult if you really want to sell. So if there are any banners to be unfurled at the next home match, let them say' Kenwright Out'. The new owners can then deal with Moyes at their leisure.
Rick Hall, Preston  (22/2/07)

Improvement?

As an expat blue who lives on the West Coast of America, my viewing of the team is more limited than it used to be (but credit to the Fox Soccer Channel and Setana Sports who have had the Blues on quite often this season). Having to get up at a crazy time in the morning to watch a game on the weekend, sometimes at 5am, the crap which has been played these last couple of seasons is pretty depressing.

As the aftermath of last nights defeat to Spurs still continues, I have a couple of interesting points to bring up to show that its not all bad. If you look at last years table compared to this years you?ll see a big change in the For/Against column. Unbelievably with 11 games still to play, our goals for this year is one goal less than our total for last year. If you compare our amount of goals compared to the other teams, we are one of the better teams. Our defensive record this year is 5th best in the league, and when was the last time you can remember we had a pretty decent goal difference total like we do this year?

There has been much made of our negative style of play in this mail bag, blogs and the media on a whole. We have been getting the results, but sometimes its been torture watching them. An attacking style Everton team hasn?t been seen in a long time, and its been hurting us. Trying to ?convert? American friends to football and the Blues isn?t helped when the drab negative style bores them to death when they watch the game. The fault of this obviously falls to Moyes and his style of play. As a defender in his playing days, you can see his thinking in the way the team plays. This causes a lack of creativity and along with that a lack of goals, because he didn?t have the experience of thinking about anything further than the back 4. A perfect example was last night as the defensive mindset set in, when we should of really been thinking about pushing ahead.

Should we get rid of Moyes? No, looking back he has brought us along way over the years, but it is stale now. I don?t think bringing a new manager in would be ideal, as the players play Moyes?s way, he has created a pretty solid defensive unit. If we had the creativity and more of an attack minded element, we would be easily be pushing the top 4. I believe Moyes needs to look at his backroom staff, and revamp what he has there. Bring in some attack minded coaches, let them add to our style of play. Maybe then we?ll get some excitement back into play. We have the players to do it, but Moyes just needs to let them play the way that we would like them to play, not how they are now.
Kristian Boyce, WA, USA  (22/2/07)

Mowbray shows the way

In common with Ed MacDonald I, too, would commend the Teamtalk piece on Tony Mowbray to your readers.

I am an out-and-out Evertonian who because of business connections in the Midlands has to regularly host the company box at the Hawthorns. Under the management of Brian Robson this was a chore both whilst the Baggies were in the Prem and after they were relegated. For several weeks after Mowbray`s arrival from Hibs, results were bad as he totally overalled the playing style from the HEF favoured by his predecessor to the patient, probing style so well perfected by his hero Wenger.

The league table shows how effective this has been and my `duty` days are now a joy rather than a penance! Now I`m not saying that Mowbray is the answer for Everton, but the philosophy he espouces strikes me as that which would make Goodison a good place to go to once again. Who know`s... they might even get to call it The School of Science?
Mal Wilkins, Bilston  (22/2/07)

Hit em where it hurts

I've decided since I love Everton so much I'm not renewing my season ticket. There is absolutely no way Billy Liar will sack Moyes just because we shout about it. Kenwright, I'm sure, would react, however, to less money and I feel it is the only way to protest against the current regime. Also something would be done if attendances fell. This doesn't mean I'll stop going to games completely but Kenwright won't have secured the price of a whole season ticket and the way we're going there won't be a queue of people to take it from me.

Also, I feel the people who stick up for Moyes don't go and watch the game. They just see a few short highlights on Match of the Day and think we're doing ok. Perhaps following their lead would mean I view Everton with their rose-tinted spectacles.
Alan Clarke, Manchester  (22/2/07)

New Investment

Why is there the assumption that if Kenwright steps aside, some Billionaire is going to step in and put millions into the club... just because it's happened elsewhere? I hope I'm completely wrong but what if "investors" have done their calculations and just thought we aren't worth investing in? Arsenal were able to borrow most of the money to pay for the Emirates. If our sums stacked up we'd be in the Kings Dock by now... but they didn't.

We are a club that prior to the Rooney sale was £40M in debt ? how did that happen? It was ecause we spent for years more money then we were bringing in. Unfortunately, Moyes has had to deal with the consequences of that and has worked to a limited transfer budget and yet we expect as our right to finish above the likes of Newcastle and Spurs who have spent considerably more... that was my point from earlier on.
Sandeep Sahi, London  (22/2/07)

In sympathy

I have some sympathy for David Moyes. I was once trapped in a job I had little aptitude for and I know how stressful that can be. We are not going to make any further progress under him as manager I'm afraid. It seems to be one step forward and at least one, sometimes two, steps back every week. Everton Football Club are worth far more than playing for a draw at home nomatter what the adverse circumstances but it seems to be OK for David Moyes and that is the final straw.

I did something last night that I don't recall ever doing before except in the face of the direst personal circumstances, I left the match early when I heard Hibbert's name as substitute. Not that I have anything against the lad but he represented Moyes's white flag. As an Evertonian, what else could I do?
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (22/2/07)

Add my name to Doddy, Jaime & Jack

Over the last 5 years, Moyes has done a great job for this club, starting off by keeping us in the Premier League when we were annual candidates to go down. He's developing a squad with a good young spine which will be the core of this club for years to come.

In developing this good young squad he's having to play a difficult game of balancing the number of playing staff against the requirements of a season against the wages he's commiting too for the next few years whilst also balcancing these against the fact he needs room and financies available to add quality player in the future... and all on a shoestring for club who are in debt. Sounds like a pretty tall order to me, looks as if he's having good go at tho.

Above all else and despite what ever shit you want to throw at him, he's changed the outlook of the fans, given us some pride back and created expectations for him to achieve.

I also note that this has all been achieved with Kenwright standing firmly alongside him and vice versa. I think we all know that we're not a rich a club, we certainly don't have sugar daddy to splash the cash which makes these achievements even better.

Although alive, I'm slightly too young to truely remember the good days of the 80s but I can say without doubt that this is the first time I've seen decenet footballers wearing an Everton shirt who are the right side 30 and sober.

So give it a rest, get off Moyes's and Kenwright's backs, enjoy the fact that we're contemplating a European finish and not relegation, enjoy the fact that were moving in the right direction and support this great club.

... and Micheal don't tell me "this ain't the point blahblahblah" this club won't go anywhere fast until we get a billionaire to buy everyone we need and a stadium in one go... then we'll just be like Liverpool and Chelsea who swear blind they haven't bought success.
James Taylor, Bradford  (22/2/07)

What was that?

I raced home from work last night to watch the match with great excitement. Here was our opportunity to vault Pompey with two winnable games coming our way after this fixture...

What was he thinking? When was the last time that Naysmith played as a left midfielder? Why did we go 4-5-1 when we had the advantage at the interval? And then we actually played for the draw while at home? He has to go... he can do no more.... If Carsley is the best holding midfielder we can field then we are NEVER going to accomplish much. Did you see where he was on the first goal? Nowhereland... and the same thing happened on the 2nd goal. Both defensively shoddy, both the result of absolute poor positioning. That game was a disgrace to watch, and to think you poor people had to shell out good money to sit through it... Moyes Out!

Never thought I would say that... but his time and style will be our ruination.
Roger Domal, NYC, NY, USA  (22/02/07)

Negative Line-up

Based on David Moyes's tactical decisions displayed in yesterdays defeat to Spurs, I believe the following line-up would be his ideal starting XI:

         Howard

Hibbert Stubbs Weir Lescott Naysmith

  Boyle Neville Yobo Pistone

           Carsley

(Moyes pleaded Weir's return on-loan). Don't be surprised if we see it this weekend.
Andrew Hicks, Clearwater, Florida  (22/2/07)

Gollum Moyes!

I am happy that the crowd have made their feelings known to Moyes about the negative home tactics he employs! To settle for a draw to a team at home in the Premier League is a disgrace, never mind a team below us.

I honestly believe the style of football we play will cost us the quality players we have, I honestly dont beleive Mikel Arteta, fernandes, Lescott and Cahill will hang around while their undoubted talents arent being groomed and nutured to play excellent football.

Moyes for me has failed since his first full season: inconsistent results, play well against tough opposition but seem to lack inspiration to see of lesser teams. Get Moyes out and bring in a proven manager from home or abroad that has proven credentials and is known to play good football. Maybe Glenn Hoddle, you may laugh but his track record is good and he also plays good football.
Nate Drexel, Aintree Village  (22/2/07)

Response to Declan Critchley

Embracing the mediocre life in the Premier League ? I will do that and will continue to do it until the next step is put into practice.

Yes ? I agree we need the revenue and investment and I agree that BK needs to release the grip he has. I also agree that our style of play is not the best but it works for us. And I do genuinely believe that we are in a transitional/interim period. We need one key thing to happen ? and that's investment.

We simply cannot attract flair players without the cash. Fernandes - prime example. Come the summer, we won't have the £12M and he will go. Arteta ? Athletico offer him a big wage, we will not be able to compete ? but is that anything to do with Moyes?!

So, given the HERE AND NOW apparent attitude, which the editors think they have - HERE AND NOW I am content that the club is still building its foundations after being destroyed in the 90s. Why sing 'if ya know ya history' if it's all about the here and now. We were demolished in the 90's. We lost our stature as a club and certainly as a team. We survived on what ever we could and it was a constant battle - I haven't forgot that and I am somewhat grateful that I am not worrying about having to win every game (obviously I want to win, but I have no tears anymore when we lose ? I no longer feel sick towards the end of the season etc). And while that is classed as mediocre, it's acceptable to a point given the potential alternative.

Should we get the investment, then I will raise my personal expectation level from 'nice to get into Europe' to 'we better be in Europe'. At the moment, teams are better than us ? and apart from Reading, the other 6 have a stack more cash (yes, including Bolton) to spend on wages - which is the crucial area in terms of financing football. Transfer fees are almost irrelevant (as Big Sam has proved) - its all about the wages. The teams immediately below us also have more money for wages and better grounds.

So sitting in 8th with the ability to qualify for Europe has to prove that we are moving forward and at the moment we have the correct manager for the job. We simply don't have the support structure for that manager and his team. Get that and I think that then, and only then, we can realistically raise the expectation level. As it stands, our internal support and financial situation tells us that we are overachieving. We are financially, no better than the Fulham's of this world, in my opinion.
Jamie Rowland, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Losing a game defensively better than losing a

Finally, I lost all respect for Moyes. I used to think,

1. With these kind of resources, who can be better than him to make it better.
2. Look at Everton, it's much better than 5 years ago
3. Who else can replace him?

Look... He sucks. You can get any shit to replace him and lose the game. It's the same result anyway.

One match reaction? Pleeassee.. this is not the first time. No money? Then at least earn some respects from other managers than being well knowned for defensive tatics and long balls (even long throw) one-way attack. It's painful.... maybe I should finally quit watching Everton all together, till the David "Mr Best Manager Available" Moyes leaves.
James Church, Singapore  (23/2/07)

Disappointed

I was at the Tottenham game last night and I must say I was disappointed with David Moyes's negativity. I'm an out and out supoorter of Everton and I very rarely criticise the team or the manager but the fact that I had a long bus ride up and a long bus ride back to watch that amateur performance has made me pretty frustrated.

The only shining moments were Manny Fernandes and Mikky Arteta who were the only two who really tried to change the game. But to bring on Naysmith for Anichebe and Hibbert for Fernandes was ludicrous and then (with one minute to go) to bring on Vaughan for Naysmith was unreal. Has Moyes lost the plot?

I'm all for defending points away from home but to blatantly play for a point from half-time was ridiculous. I've paid my money for a ticket and I've paid money for the bus down so I've got every right to criticise as I see it and last night was a joke. I'm not sure Moyes knows how to make subs, I remember the Man City game (we were one-nil up) and he brought on Weir and then within a minute we were one all and with literally no time left on the clock. Why make negative subs at home? I don't understand it and I'm sure there are lots out there who feel the same.
Steve Claringbold, Carlisle  (22/2/07)

Blue in more ways than one

Last night was one of the most disapointing nights I've personally experienced since a certain nightmare in Istanbul two years ago. Not only was it horrible to see Spurs go back to the capital having avenged our early season savaging of them (a savaging which, unlike their win last night, was a well-deserved bestowing of 3 points upon the team who controlled the match) but literally in the same hour, that OTHER TEAM on Merseyside recorded one of their most famous nights in European football by beating the Champions of the continent in their own Catalonian backyard.

I write this not to whine (although I'm well aware I'm doing just that) but to vent how football, like life can be so hopelessly cruel. But in the midst of last night's forlorness I thought of something my dad said to me about football teams in general and that is, it is only when your team are down, losing or just plain going through the motions that you discover how much they mean to you - because you are going through the motions with them.

All I'm saying is these very frustrating times (albeit not critical times) that our boys are going through will make it all the more meaningful when we eventually go to places like Madrid and Milan and record famous nights. For all of United's and Liverpool's success in Europe in recent years, I genuinely don't believe that it could possibly mean as much to the majority of their fans as it would to ours whose memories of European glory are all too distant memories.

...it could be worse though, we could be Nottingham Forest.
Neil Styles, Dublin  (22/2/07)

Go on, then, Moyes Fans...

To all Moyes fans ? whose usual response to their heros critics is "who would you get to replace him" (a line borrowed from David Prentice around the end of Walter Smith's time in charge) ? go on then, if Moyes stays, tell us what's next?
Carl Roper, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Typical Fans

I was there last night!!! Yes it was not nice to see, and yes Moyes tactics should be questioned. But why the hell do we get idiots who shout for his head?

He is a young manager, learning every match. I have seen some bad and shocking results under Moyes, but at the same time I have seen us beat Liverpool 3-0, seen us beat Man Utd and Arsenal and break our jinx at Elland Road and White Hart Lane. Plus we had a Champions League season, not too long I know, but only us Liverpool and Arsenal and Man Utd and Leeds and Newcastle have been there.

People should stop going mad after our first defeat in 8 and let Moyes do the fantastic job he has done since he has been here.
Phil Jones, Liscard Wallasey  (22/2/07)

Knee-jerk reaction

I keep seeing the pro-Moyes camp talking of 'knee-jerk reaction'. For at least two seasons now, I can recall frequently reading and contributing on the same topic ? negative football. While most of us have repeatedly tried to explain to the IMWT boys that we do not expect to compete with the richer clubs in the league, we would like to be entertained in return for our hard earned.

The bloke behind me likened home games this season to a 'Groundhog Day' scenario where come the final quarter of the game we are desperately clingin on to something, and the crowd gets increasingly agitated ? which I am sure transmits to the players on the pitch.

At no stage last night did Spurs look like they were going to take us apart, say like Blackburn and Bolton have done in recent seasons, so Moyes's mitigation for the subs does not wash with me.

What has the man got against playing men in their natural position? A centre-half at left-back, a central-midfielder at right-back, a left-back at left-mid... and the most immobile front two since Campbell and Ferguson, while a pacy striker is left on the bench till injury time!

This man has spent more money than Redknapp and Coppell put together, and yet they both put out teams that go for victory, and play football to feet. Why can't we see some football. Please?

One similarity between the Smith days and now is what seems to be a lack of fitness. Most teams that I have seen this year are bigger, stronger and seem to have more in the tank than us.

I for one would like to see a new manager, and feel we have missed the boat on Ranieri. He ? obviously together with some financial backing ? could put us back somewhere near, and playing in a way that fans like me would be happy to see.
Adam Baig, Merseyside  (22/2/07)

Joni Mitchell's Answer

Last night's substitutions did look like the Last Post! Time for the Taxi?
Glen Strachan, Oaxaca , Mexico  (2202/07)

Resources

If I hear "Moyes has done miracles with the resources available to him" one more time from the Moyes apologists, I'm going to top myself! For fucks sake, lads, the man has spent a fortune.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (22/2/07)

Disbelief

I have defended Moyes through thick and thin believing that scarce resources and pragmatism are at the route of so much of today?s football. Last night, though, was a show of pure unadulterated incompetence. Why the hell would he want to be cautious now when we are in the top half of the table, had a game in hand on clubs around us, and absolutely nothing to lose by going for it?

I could taste the disbelief in the crowd at the beginning of the second half when Naysmith replaced Anichebe. For fuck's sake... Naysmith!?!

The first half we were overran in the middle of the park, not though because of our crap forwards ? led brilliantly again by Beattie ? but because Carsley was on his own in the middle looking after three Spurs men while Fernandes stood around watching him. I swear for half an hour at the beginning someone was smoking draw near me because Fernandes was playing in super slow mo. Then for 15 minutes he woke up going into the break and we looked like a team again. Nice touches from the loan man, but perspiration is not his middle name.

No need to take off a striker and leave Beattie on his own. He can?t play with someone alongside him never mind on his own.

Moyes idea was that Lennon was getting too much ball, so Naysmith was to help out Lescott with Lennon and Chimbonda. Actually he did neither. Lescott had to defend Lennon and take on Chimbonda whenever he could. The sight of Naysmith trying to outpace the Spurs full back was pathetic. You just knew what was going to happen. Nothing stuck up front; Arteta did his best as always, but crossed to no one as Beattie was running the other way again; Osman isn?t the full biscuit and Fernandez looked like he was picking pennies to get his bus fair together. It was just a matter of time before Spurs got the goal. Not once did I think we would win.

Vaughan was sprinting up and down the line with a ?remember me boss?? look in his eye. The boss didn?t look at him once he was too busy thinking how he could fit another fucking full back in to the team. When he did, the reaction from the crowd was justified. Why not chuck on Vaughan at the beginning of the second half and leave Vic on too? The two young lads could have covered the wings if he had wanted midfield stability, and they can both run fast!

There is no point of being defensive at this stage of the season. We are safe so let?s push on and attack teams and see what happens. Last night was a watershed for Moyes?s and the fans relationship. Time is running out and he has lost a lot of brownie points. It will take a mammoth effort for him to loosen the shackles he placed on the players last night. But loosen them he must because that defeat was his fault ? no doubt about it!
Neil Alecock, Huyton  (22/02/07)

Out of order

Firstly I must object to Kevin Sparke comparison of the majority of fans wanting Moyes to walk for the sake of Everton future ? to an Islamic 'Jihad' is a total disgrace!

Firstly, Sparke, try asking a Muslim what Jihad actually is, and it isn't what you think, buddy. Maybe then it may possibly (I doubt) enlighten the clear ignorance you display when comparing us fans to what you deem as radicalism. Too much Sun and Daily Star I fear. In both cases you are clearly wrong, and a sincere person would apologise immediately. While we are using religious radicalism, I wonder why you didn't compare us fans to the Crusades or the movement of Jewish cleansing of Nazi Germany! Pathetic, Sparke!

Secondly, your arrogance about 'only you can provide a balance' is as much as a dead duck as the team you described without AJ. You honestly make me laugh, wasn't it you who threatened not to write in anymore as 90% of writers were against your ramble!? Your assessment of holding onto Moyes is also laughable, where is that bravery you call for Sparke?

You only fool yourself, the crowd and 97% of e.mailers have cast their die! Your the only 'mentalist' in the Village! Moyes OUT!
Luq Yussef, London  (22/2/07)

Stable Club?????

There are a few on here who claim that to slate Moyes and demand him out is a disgrace as he has "Stablised the club", "Done better than Mike Walker" etc etc. What on earth did you expect?? Do you think when Kenwright sat down with him he wrote his job description as "Just crack on with us being shite David and here's £500k a year". NO... It probably had something to do with stabilising the team and then pushing on. Yes he's stabilised things but he's not even trying to push on, instead he's happy with staying stable and taking no risks.

Well here's a risk. What if Arteta, Yobo, Lescott, Cahill et al get on one in the summer, another battle against relegation with half a team... but, hey, it's alright: Davey's here and he'll stabilise us. Will you lot wake up and smell the coffee.

Moyes has done all he is able to and now we're a laughing stock, the web sites laugh at us, Sky laugh at us and every other teams laughs at the great fallen giant. For fuck's sake, we're Everton the School of Science, we DEMAND more than this. Mediocrity is not within the make up of this club or the fans. We should not accept it.

The next time you post on here and say "But Moyes has taken us this far", just think about the club and what we should expect. Im' absolutely raw at the way this club is now and in particular the way the fans seem to accept this shite as the norm. Moyes Out.
Ste Boileau, Walton  (22/2/07)

RE: Moyes

David Moyes has done more good than bad for this club. I was as annoyed as the next person after last night but, no matter what mistakes he has made, he is still learning and he demands respect. Football isn't always about the 'here and now' as you put it. I'd love to hear some of your suggestions for next manager if David Moyes was to be replaced.

The fact of the matter is that sacking David Moyes would make no sense at all, it would be a stupid decision and send the club a few years back. Would you like to be scrapping relegation every season again? Some of you need to get real... honestly.
Dominic Fitzpatrick, Wallasey  (22/2/07)

Mob Mentality

What a predictable anti-Moyes frenzy following an admittedly lamentable tactical performance. It?s fair enough to criticise Moyes?s substitutions last night, but calling for his head is reactionary and will only serve to damage the progress at Everton during Moyes tenure. Everybody involved (including Toffeeweb?s editorial) should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Not one of you can riposte your elephant in the room: Who, given the resources, could do a better job at Everton?
Will Mitchell, London  (22/2/07)

Response to Jamie Rowland

I can see where Jamie Rowland is coming from and he does make some good points. Yes the league has changed and yes everyone outside the big four does make up the numbers. Moyes has improved us since he joined? No argument there. No longer relegation fodder, that?s good too. But, but, where to next? Moyes doesn?t appear to have a plan and is hell bent on playing ?don?t get beat football? until he has a Eureka moment and figures out his next step. We?re all grateful but 2/3 more years of this and we will end up like Southampton.

And as for ?we are not this massive, fantastic club that players want to play for?? Two words: Moyes, Kenwright. If Kenwright actually looked for investment instead of reminding us of how hard he works and if Moyes tried to play expansive, attacking football we?d be a hell of a lot closer than we are now. If a young, exciting talent could join us or the barcodes and watched a tape of both of us guess where he?d go and that is the fault of Moyes and Kenwright.

As for not being part of the downfall of a man who helped turn us around; well that?s not just accepting mediocrity, that?s fucking embracing it.
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (22/2/07)

New Manager

Look no further tnan Pellegrino, the Vilarreal coach. Quick incisive football played on the floor. Moyes can't coach a team to play attacking football ? look at the goals scored in his 5 years in charge including the LOWEST total ever in a season.
Steven Flynn, Southport  (22/2/07)

A fine line

It seems that last nights defeat has sparked a tirade of fury against Moyes. I am in agreement with those who are sick of the boring negative football on offer. I do wish Moyes would take a risk, particularly at home, and he is overly cautious as a manager. It is more frustrating to lose a match having played defensively as opposed to attacking football or at least having a go, so to speak.

However, we must remember that Moyes has raised our expectations. Before he arrived, our "BIG" club, was consistently involved in relegation battles. We no longer have to worry about that. Instead we are getting frustrated that we are not taking more risks in going for a European place. Please remember that before Moyes we were crap. Now we are an average but solid team. We are 8th in the premiership and STILL have a chance of getting into Europe.
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (22/2/07)

Forget top ten

Is it just me or can anyone else see Newcastle Tottenham and Blackburn overtake us in the final third of the season? Moyes's tactics are pathetic.

And you really think Arteta will want to stay with us after the way we play? Expect to see him in a Madrid shirt next season. As for Osman, well I think I should leave it there.

We will be in relegation fight this time next year if we don't get more investment. I think moyes will come good but he needs to be able to spend more in the transfer market. The only reason we play like we do now is because we have only one player who can shoot from outside the box ? Arteta.
Simon Jones, Birmingham  (22/2/07)

Thanks, Manuel and Mikel

Imagine you were either of our two gifted Spaniards this morning. Manuel will be thinking to himself "What the fuck am I doing here? I taught I was having a rather good game and he takes me off, puts on a defender. Hmmm... I think I'll head over to that red team I think they are interested plus they have loads of money and will be signing world-class players."

Now the above may sound hard to take but it's true and who could blame him. As for Arteta, well there is no doubt he has an affection for Everton but he knows in his heart that a manager such as Moyes is never going to play a system that suits his creative ability.

After last night, Moyes, no matter what he achieves now, is a negative arrogant manager and while no one can deny he has made good signings he certainly does not know what to do with them. As for Kenwright, he and Negative Dave should hit the high road because, if they don't we are in serious trouble. Thanks Mikel and Manuel for the memories.
Micheal Lynch, Kerry  (22/2/07)

Any answers? Ask the right people.

Sandeep: Correct me if I'm wrong mate but isn't ambition, generation of funds the responsibility of the people who run the club, ie, the directors? (I use the term lightly as direction is non-existent).
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Response to Sandeep

Sandeep says that we don't generate enough money to compete. He also says that changing Moyes and the Board won't solve this problem. Hold on, but isn't Blue Bill looking 24/7 for investment?? Every club and his dog in the Prem is getting invested in these days, Man City could be next. Villa, West Ham and City are no bigger than us yet investment goes their way. Blue Bill seems unable to attract or maybe accept new cash injections. Also what does Woods actually do????

Changing the stale board for a new group of investors would make a big difference, I m sure they wouldn't settle for Moyes's pathetic attempts at talking the club forward.

Also, I don't hear any players say the want to come to EFC to play for Moyes. The modern player must see him for what he is, a dour, miserable defensive coach who bollocks his players any chance he gets. When Vic scored twice, Moyes immediately took the limelight by claiming it was a good bollocking that got him motivated.

This club is stale Sandeep, it needs change sooner rather than latter for all our sakes.
John Audsley, Leeds  (22/2/07)

Last night's defeat

It has nothing to do with Moyess? tactical incompetence. The real reason we lost last night was because my favourite turnstile in the Park End was shut. So instead of sacking Moyes, Bill and Keith should spend their time getting the turnstile fixed!!
Adam Bennett, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Just a little reminder...

Ten seasons ago, 96/97 - we finished 15th with 42 points. we were lucky to avoid relegation. Boro only went down because they had 3pts deducted for failing to fulfill a fixture. Otherwise we would have been, maximum, 16th. Had we lost one more game we would have been relegated. Joe Royle resigned and Dave Watson was stand in manager... and we are complaining about the current state of affairs?
Jamie Rowland, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

The only way

I think we are all agreed that last night (very aptly called Tr-ash Wednesday in an earlier posting) was indeed the watershed for DM. No more benefit of the doubt. Finished.

How do we get rid? There's only one way. Load all the blame Billwards starting at Watford on Saturday on live TV. Whatever form of chant of Kenwright Out, I don't really care what it rhymes with. Unless Bill feels the heat, nothing will give.

No I'm not stupid; I know that this won't make him throw the towel in himself, but hell, the pressure has got to build on him to the point that he has to review Moyes. Then, when enough personal pressure is applied and felt, he takes the easy option and blames someone else ie, Moyes. Bingo. Job done.

Sorry but that's how this sad world works. We won't then miraculously win every game but at least we will have some football we don't mind watching. And most of all, we will get our pride back and not be humiliated and embarrassed to the extent that we were last night with that Moyes effort. Kenwright Out! Kenwright Out!
Steve Green, Southampton  (22/2/07)

Beattie?? Man Of The Match??

Reading Paul Traill's match report I was astonished to see that he had given Man Of The Match to James Beattie!!!

Some people defending Beattie say "He worked hard last night" or "He ran for miles last night". Reading Paul Traill's match report, I was astonished to see that he had given Man Of The Match to James Beattie!

Some people defending Beattie say "He worked hard last night" or "He ran for miles last night". Sorry, but am I missing something here??? For a six million pound striker to simply "work hard" isn't good enough for me. That is the very LEAST he should be doing!!

• Did he have a shot at goal? No!
• Did he create a chance at goal for someone else? No!
• Did he ever look like threatening to do anything remotely worthwhile? No!
• How can he be Man of the Match then???

Oh that's right: he gets "no service". Johnson has had "no service" all season and has managed to score 10 goals, only 1 a penalty. Beattie hasn't scored from open play in nearly a year!!!

Get shot of this waster in the summer as he is disgrace to every single No 9 that has had the priviledge to wear that shirt in the past!!! He makes Brett Angell look like Alan Shearer!!!
Steven Mills, Merseyside  (22/2/07)

Response to Colm:

What kind of response is this?! If you want to wake Evertonians up to reality then its time to accept that we are only a team that makes up the numbers ? as are all of the mid-table teams. But that, in my opinion, is a damn site better than relegation fodder. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing people come on these fan sites moaning and groaning... do they forget that within the last decade we were lucky to stay in this division?! If you have been 'going' for 30 yrs, then simply ask yourself this question, in the last 20 of those 30, how many times would you have settled for mid-table mediocrity?

Going back to my point about the fans ? yes we could stage a walkout, and for the right reasons I would join that boycott... but to try to suggest that the reason parts of the Upper Gwladys was empty is due to a disliking of the current set-up is ludicrous and untrue. If it were true, why doesn't anybody in the Park End (where I sit) know about it? Why have there been no leaflets in the pubs around the ground or on the streets before games? Why is it not talked about on the forums? Why are there events such as the upcoming event at the Adelphi ? where players and managers (past and present) will be in attendance and such events were sold out months ago?!

It's all very simple. We are not the People's Club. We haven't got the dedicated fanbase and we haven't got the dedicated set-up at the club. Regardless of all of this ? whether you are a fan of Moyes/Kenwright or not ? the fact is the reaction against them from last night is a cover up by most fans who shy away from admitting that we are not this massive, fantastic club that players want to play for or we believe we are... Why would anyone want to play for us when all they get is moaned at?!

We are not the Everton of the 80s. Moyes may have taken us as far as he can but that is really not for me to judge. He has steered us in the right direction with, in relative terms, little resources. That for me is far better than biting my nails playing Watford et al to see if we can stay up.

I am not settling for mid-table, of course I want improvement but it has to be realistic. Mid-table is better than relegation and a good position to continue to build upon. If you (collectively) want Moyes out, then please jeer. But I cannot be part of the downfall of a man who helped turned us around. I would much rather sing and get behind the lads than boo or jeer.
Jamie Rowland, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Protests

There has been much debate on this website recently about how to protest against the Moyes/Kenwright regime. Well, the boos ringing around the ground were the most effective protest that there could have been. I was absolutely stunned and can only hope, yes probably in vain, that someone in control got the message.

You would have to be blind to have failed to notice the feelgood factor that has surrounded the club in recent weeks. To have this taken away last night in such a gut-wrenching way by Moyes totally justified the response. If the board, and Mr Kenwright, cannot or will not see this, they are more blinkered than even I imagined.

Still, I'm not really that naive. They are probably swanning round the boardroom as I type, patting each other on the back and telling Moyes how he'll never be let leave the club. To hear a Goodison Park crowd boo in such a manner is depressing. I just hope though that it was directed at them.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (22/2/07)

Total Ineptitude

I'm an Evertonian who lives in Newcastle. My Father and I regularly travel to Goodison to watch our beloved blues. Living in Newcastle, I have to put up with the constant bullshit that comes out the Geordies months. It's difficult even when we're doing well. This morning has been awful. We lose, they laugh ? simple as that.

If we lose and lose battling, I can accept, but last night was a joke. This "messiah" Moyes is quickly turning us into a joke. Are we really any further forward that when he took over? He's had millions to spend, and squandered the vast majority. Krøldrup, Davies, Mcfadden, Beattie, Van der Meyde and Wright to name a few. Granted he's bought us some quality, but with the financial situation at Everton, we can't afford for these big money disasters.

I, like many others, was really upbeat at the start of the season. We get Johnson, Lescott and Howard, surely Europe had to be a must, yet it now looks increasingly likely that we'll miss out. With home games against Man Utd and Arsenal to come, even the most fanatical Evertonaians can't see us winning these games.

This has to be seen as a total failure by a man who is the most tactcally inept, and negative manager in the Premiership at present. If we are to progress, we must appoint someone with awareness of the game. If we don't make Europe after the money this nugget has spent, it's nothing short of scandalous.
Chris Humble, Newcastle  (22/2/07)

Who are we?

We are Everton Football Club ? we are not the likes of Charlton, Bolton, Blackburn etc. With all due respect to those clubs, we are a big club, a club with a history of being expected to win trophies. No longer can we be classed as a club that is expected to win trophies. Our support is that of a top club, we have the fan base, we have the passion of our support. It showed last night that enough is enough, how long can we remain an average middle of the table team?

The board needs to sit down and consider what they want for this club and more importantly the fans. It is okay taking 4 points of a certain team of drunken yobs and the other occasional good results against the so-called bigger teams, we need to be up there competing with these clubs. It was annoying sitting there watching Spurs players passing the ball around comfortably to each other. You look at some of our players and they treat the ball as a hot potato and just get rid as quickly as possible, this is just not good enough for this club.

I liked Moyes but I always remember the day he came to our club, I was on a course with a Preston fan, he was disaapointed but he did warn me that he was a ditherer when it came to making decisions, whether buying players or team changes.

I have had enough of this club failing to achieve what should be expected. Mr Moyes/Mr Kenwright, when can we expect to be competing for honours again? When can I expect to take my son to a cup final or see a trophy paraded around the city by a team in blue? I remember when he was little and he wanted to go and see all the people at the bottom of the road with their flags coming to see their team coming home with a trophy, I held back the tears and told him, don't worry son we will soon, I'm still waiting...
Dave Burnett, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

The end is nigh!

You do have to wonder about Moyes. He persuades the Club to pay some mysterious foreign agent £700,000 for Da Silva, takes 18 months to get him to England, then refuses to play him when he`s no other midfielder available. Can he really tell us that Naysmith is a better sub for midfield than the South American? If so, the `newcomer` must be pretty crap!

Then again, he has a bright, lively young striker who has already proved he knows where the net is and he brings on a half-fit full back. These strange moves only compound the folly of playing the best central defender on the books at left back when aforesaid Naysmith is fit, willing and able.

And how about the pairing of Beattie and Anichebe?Surely Anichebe and Vaughan or, if he must persist with the £6M misfit, Vaughan as his partner?

He tells us Fernandes was tiring but this is a 21-year-old athlete who had looked the best midfielder on the park right up to the point of his substitution. Has the game suddenly become an 80-minute contest or did the Moyestro just give up on going for a win at that point and try to batten down the hatches? I think we know the answer to that one!

Unfortunately, Moyes is going the way of a number of Everton managers in their `death throws` ? too clever by half, he has just lost the plot. I see the signs: Bill or no Bill, the end is nigh!
Stan Lloyd, Bebington  (22/2/07)

21 Years Ago Today...

22/02/1986: Liverpool 0 - 2 Everton (Ratcliffe, Lineker). Enough said.
Alan McMillan, Dublin  (22/2/07)

Paper-thin resources

Like the previous poster from Essex, I am getting tremendous stick this morning from a lot of Liverpool supporters with southern accents, who have cynically aligned themselves with the humourless pricks who claim to support Spurs.

Anyway, back to last night. As disappointing as it was, it only highlighted to me the paper-thin resources which DM has at his diposal. It is therefore crass stupidity to be calling for his head. Do you really think if AJ, Cahill, or AvdM has been availiable he would have Naysmith on?

The fact is we need serious investment in the squad, and we don't need a different manager. DM has made mistakes tactically and in the transfer markets, but overall he progressed the footballing side of EFC far further than anyone else in the last 20years. Mike Walker anyone?
Andy Lynch, London  (22/2/07)

Not fit to be Manager

A big thank you to Davey Moyes for proving conclusively last night that he is not fit to be Everton's manager. All but the insane now know he has to go. Even Irvine was shaking his head when Hibbert came on. I was shaking mine as soon as I knew Beattie was playing. Anichebe must have been shaking his at half-time together with most of the team!
Ged Dwyer, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Be Positive!

I'm just agreeing with Matt Wiley's piece about last night's game and the fact that Everton's major problem is a failure to be positive. We all know that if you sit back and invite pressure you will be under pressure, the best form of defence is attack and so on. In a home game, we should be attacking, going for the win. If Moyes wants us to defend, he should have bought a replacement defensive midfielder by now.

The point about Lescott playing full-back while full-backs galore fill midfield positions is also a good one. I've always been a supporter of Moyes but am losing patience with his negativity and his willingness to play players in positions other than their best ones.

The final point I would like to make is that, as a fan I would be much, much happier if we'd over attacked, played good football and been caught with a sucker punch. That hurts, but it's infinitely better than collapsing into a shell of defensiveness that doesn't even work.
Mike Allison, Leamington, Warwickshire  (23/2/07)

Moyes out banners!

First things first: last night was a disgrace. A real sickener to take. Moyes got it wrong by surrendering a winnable game to a side below us in the table. However, to start calling for his head and to start making banners for his resignation are massively premature. We are all a little sore, what with the shite's result as well, but to sack a manager who has lost 2 in 9 and kept 5 clean sheets in the process would be ridiculous.

I genuinly believe that when AJ and Cahill come back to join the fantastic Arteta and the highly promising Fernandes we will push on for Europe. Please don't over react. Bite your tongues and wait and see. No banners!!!
Charlie Dixon, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Whatever happened to Banners??

Back in the old days when football was exciting and unpredictable, whenever there was a growing consensus of opinion or a tide of emotion to change something, fans would unfurl a banner to voice their opinion.

I am amazed that we have let this go on for as long as it has. Our club is being run by a short-sighted, narrow-minded, self-serving Board of Directors and our manager is making a mockery of our "School of Science" tradition. I know that regularly attractive football is long done at Goodison, but enough is enough.

The people that matter do not take any heed to these forums. Comrades, it is time for action!! Let's get the old bed linen from the hot press and a tim of paint from the shed, and write it in plain English: "Sack the Board" (might be someone out there who has one from the days of Johnson) and "Moyes must Go".

On paper, we have a pretty good team ? better than Spurs, Villa and the other shite around us ? yet the tactics employed mean will continnually shoot ourselves in the foot. It's time for the players and managers to stop talking the talk about Europe and just go and fucking win the winnable matches. I'd rather be stuffed against the big 3 (sorry Rafa) and beat the "lesser" teams than fight tooth and nail for a draw and slip up against the teams we are well capable of beating.

How many of you out there are getting it in the neck from pinkies about their win over Barca last night, while we are left shouting at fucking Rob McCaffrey or the teletext at another embarrassing result?
Alan McMillan, Dublin  (22/2/07)

The Writing's On The Wall...

I am distraught. The only positive thing I can come up with today is that I?m not in work to take all the crap off the kopites. I was once a ?Moyes needs to improve but should stay? thinker. I am now so angry that I?m ready, willing and able to kick his arse? and he doesn?t live too far from me (in a veritable mansion I might add).

His statement of intent nearly gave me a stroke ?It is important we treat every Premier League game like a round of the cup? Oh yeah, that?s a good idea since we?ve had our worst ever cup runs under you, Dave. He employed humiliating and downright shameful tactics which he later tried to excuse with pathetic explanations.

Jamie Rowland, how can you even say ?there is nothing any Manager can do about that? without choking? Surely a manager?s role is to manage the players?! Your argument simply adds fuel to the ?sack Moyes? fire ? if he can?t then let?s get someone who can. You give the examples of Mourinho and Ferguson who I think we can all say would never stand for any nonsense.

I fear this will be the start of our ?end of season downturn? which Moyes happily and publicly declared he expected from players last season. Well, I?m off to slit my wrists with a butter knife ? quicker and less painful.
Carolyn Hayre, Preston  (22/2/07)

Where now??

This season has been symptomatic of Everton in the 21st century. It could be read like a weather forecast "bright patches but becoming increasingly cloudy". These clouds now firmly reside above our manager's head like the sword of Damacles. I like Moyes, I think he's brought us forward during his tenure but like any Evertonian, I find myself questioning his decisions more and more frequently.

Personally, whilst Moyes WAS responsible for last night's debacle, I think the blame for the malaise that seems to pervade our club lies firmly at the feet of Kenwright. The man is symbolic of everything that is wrong with football at the moment. He is a media-courting, New Labour donating, self-praising sycophantic idiot with ZERO ambition for taking us forward. He is only interested in maintaining his position of power at the helm of the most directionless board we have had the misfortune to have assembled.

It's not Moyes out, although he needs to buck his ideas up and sharp-ish, it's Kenwright and his cronies out...
Stefano Sinnetti, Edinburgh  (22/2/07)

Big bunch of babies

I'm with Jamie Rowland here, lads. You're all so quick to jump on the anti-Moyes thing as soon as one result doesn't go our way and it's so fucking childish. Like the spoilt brat who's only happy when his daddy's buying him something and moans and screams when he gets fuckall.

With AJ and Cahill both missing - particularly AJ - our football becomes way too one dimensional. That's a criticism of Moyes but it doesn't mean I think he's a crap manager, it doesn't mean I hate him and it doesn't mean I don't want him to be my manager anymore. Start using your head more lads - you're supposed to be Evertonians.

The facts are that Moyes has moved this club forward. We were consistent relegation strugglers for years before Moyes came along ? do you honestly think anyone can turn us from relegation strugglers to Champs League material on a consistent level quickly? If you do you are honestly fucking stupid.

It's long term, I know nobody wants to hear that but it's the truth, and Moyes understands that. We've got a group of good players at this club now ? all signed by Moyes and most of whom were signed for very little considering. I remain an optimistic Evertonian, things could be a lot worse.
Jack Johnson, Knotty Ash  (22/2/07)

Best for Moyes to finish 10th?

If we finish 10th we lose Yobo, Lescott and Aereta. Fernandes is definitely going back at end of season. We will pull in +'30M. I reckon Lescott is worth at least £15M if Rio is £28M? If we get into Europe, we will get less than this? So perhaps there is a strategy here from Moyes/Kenwright?

In my opinion, we need investment, new oweners, new ground and a new manager. This squad is good - got to give Vaughan a chance!!! I think we all agree?
Jon Barrett, Chicago, US  (23/2/07)

Any answers

Last night, we lost to a team that has massively outspent us in the transfer market over the past few seasons and can afford to do so as they charge a fortune for tickets and earn millions more through their corporate entertainment side.

The biggest single problem Everton has faced over the last decade isn't a lack of ambition but the simple fact that as a club we don't generate enough money every season to buy the best playesr compared to our 'rivals'. I don't see how changing our manager or directors adresses that problem?
Sandeep Sahi, London  (22/2/07)

No Fancy Words ? Just Facts

I've read lots of eulogies in the aftermath of the Spurs debacle, and everyone has had their say. Moyes has served his term at Everton and it is clear he has taken us as far as he possibly can with his very limited tactical nouse. He is a typical dour central defender turned into manager.

Consider the following facts:

1. James Beattie must go for the sake of his own career. His strengths are not suited to Moyes' negative tactics of a lone striker.

2. The season he scored 20+ goals for Southampton, he was the striker supporting the front man (Ormerod or Pahars). He scored great goals from in excess of 25 yards.

3. Don't use 2 or 3 defenders as part of a 5 man midfield. One defensive midfielder will do (a younger, quicker, fitter, more mobile version of Carsley will do).

4. He has Cahill, an attacking midfielder, Neville as the holding/defensive midfielder, and has assembled 3 creative young midfielders in Arteta, Fernandes and Da Silva. You will see them all leave in the summer for a creative-minded club and manager. Watch this space.

5. If lone striker is his option, he must have pace and "some skill". Why not use Vaughan as AJ's backup? Victor is another Beattie I fear.

6. What other manager plays for home draws? Not even the bottom three! They can't afford to. We need a manager with ambition, flair, ability to attract star players.

7. Moyes is more suited to the likes of Charlton, Sheff Utd, Wigan, Watford and Fulham. Dour, defensive, survival-minded clubs. By his own admission, for the last five years, his ambition for the first half of the season is to avoid relegation.

8. Goal scoring has been a major problem since he arrived. With a more attacking and creative midfield (not just Arteta) we may create more chances not 4 or 5 half chances per match.

9. Like 34,000 other people at last nights game, I am not a football coach. But it doesn't take a genius to see the negativity and misplaced tactics that Moyesey displayed in abundance in the face of equally inept Spurs performance. The difference was Martin Jol had some quality players with the talent to produc key moments, evident when they scored their 2 goals.

10. Roll on next season and see whether or not the board see the wisdom in moving the club forward with a change of manager. We will not take things to the next level while Dithering Davey is in charge.

Brian Mills, Southampton  (22/2/07)

Brave, my arse!

So Moyes claims he was brave to bring on two full-backs when we were drawing 1-1! Stupidly negative, I would suggest and exactly the same outlook that saw him constantly fail in the play-offs when he managed North End. The man`s basic insecurity will always see him fall short. That and his slavish regard for `High Efficiency Football.`
Malcom Keogh, Leyland  (22/2/07)

Out of the gloom at last

If there was any truth in the saying that you learn more from your mistakes, David Moyes is half way to being a genius. Based only on brief TV shots, I wonder what input Irvine has. Moyes at least is animated and concerned, Irvine, like much of our play, shows not the slightest excitement. Could there be a connection there?
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (22/2/07)

Magnificent Tenth

I suspect we`re now looking at an end-of-season position of tenth. Right on the nose to kick in the bonuses for Moyes, Wyness et al but hardly progress in any meaningful sense. Trouble is Charlton`s experience with letting their `mid-table ace` Curbishley go will have frightened Kenwright off making a change even if he ever contemplated so doing.

For many Evertonians, mediocrity is even worse than a spirited fight against relegation and this will surely be reflected in crowds from now until the end of the season.
Colin Tunstall, Wirral  (22/2/07)

Absolute Disgrace

As one of the poor souls that witnessed last night's surrender I thought I?d put my oar into the debate.

What an absolute disgrace this manager is: he must go, and go now. I am sick and tired of seeing an Everton team turned out with one eye on doing nothing else but concentrating on a clean sheet, with the thought that anything better than that is a bonus.

His team selections are absolutely mystifying as we see that when his Number 1 striker is missing he still persists with Beattie, even after two years of non-performing. He has a Brazilian midfielder on the bench who he has chased for about 18 months yet his first move at half-time is to bring on his Scottish mate who I?m sorry is not good enough and will never be good enough to wear the Blue shirt. I personally don?t have too many problems with the replacement of Anichebe (although it could just as easily have been Beattie) at half-time but I do about his replacement, I would have gone with a one for one replacement in Vaughan and if not that a second choice with Da Silva to bolster the midfield.

His decision with 5 minutes left to take off one of our two most influential players in Fernandes and replace him with a right back and effectively send out the message that we were happy with a draw was a shameful decision we were at home for gods sake!!!! ? and looking like the only team that might win it. Once again if he felt that Fernandes was tiring then why not put on Da Silva and keep our shape rather than Hibbert and effectively shift the team around and leave some of them without a clue as to where they were to play (reminiscent of a certain decision against Man City earlier in the season and we all know what happened then!)

I?ll finish my rant by stating once again that this man has to go, he is tactically inept, and always defensively minded (I have yet to see him make an attacking substitution other than when we are losing and so has no other option). A number of people have stated that we will go nowhere but middle of the table and relegation avoidance with this man in charge, for those who have been unable to see it surely last nights tale of woe has enabled them to at last start to see the light.

We as supporters, and our club and its history deserve better than this, and we shall only get it with this man removed from his post!
Paul Houghton, Preston  (22/2/07)

Time to go now!

I wrote a few weeks ago Moyes should deffo go at the end of the season. I changed my mind: he needs to go now! The man has not got a fucking clue. Then, the cheeky bastard says "I was unhappy with the crowd reaction"! What the fuck does he expect? A round off fucking applause!

I got home at 1.40am after a twat of a drive back to where I live and am now thinking "Is it worth it anymore?"

One more thing, who the fuck does David S think he is slating the fans?
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (22/2/07)

Condemned with his own words

Moyes says `We had to make brave decisions and in many ways they worked.` What utter claptrap this inept tactician utters! I would remind him of Field Marshall Montgomery`s words,`Only a fool boasts of his own bravery ? to do so indicates the reverse.`

Not for the first time does Moyes condemn himself with his own words!
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (22/2/07)

'Nuff said'

'We decided to go for it, to put on attacking players and I was very pleased that it was us, the away side, going for the victory in those closing stages rather than what you would expect from a home team'.

Martin Jol.
Steve Mc, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Another slap in the face

Everton 1 Tottenham 2; Barcelona 1 Liverpool 2 ? Says it all really.

Shines a bit of perspective on the ground move debate though. Liverpool fans wouldn't worry about losing future generations if they moved outside the city walls. Success = Supporters, wherever you play.

Erm. Bring on Watford....?
Michael Stephenson, London  (22/2/07)

Small club mentality

'The manager revealed after the game that his matchday squad consisted of the only 16 fit senior professionals available to him'.

Well whose fault is that? Our small team has the smallest squad in the Premier League (in numbers and height)and yet we don't replace players when we sell. Last night spoke volumes ? powder puff no ambition ? and don't get me started on Osman who wouldn't get a game for Torquay.
John Green, Lichfield  (22/02/07)

Think positive, or at least just think!!

Moyes stated that 4-4-2 wasn?t working last night, let me point out to him that we don?t play 4-4-2, we play 4-1-3-2 because Carsley is asked to play the same role he does in a 5 man midfield, (not an attack on Cars by the way), mainly sitting back with his hand on Stubbs/Lescotts/Yobo?s nuts, which can?t be afforded in a 4, leaving, Fernandes on this occasion, chasing around a massive space occupied by 2 or 3 opposition players.

Defending the substitutions and ?settling for a draw? because he? didn?t want to revert back to ?4-4-2? (for the last 5 or 6 minutes!??) is bollocks, just play as the formation suggests, defenders as defenders, midfielders as midfielders and it then leaves us an option, with or without AJ, to have two strikers AT HOME!! At the very least he could have swapped Beattie, who was knackered, for Vaughan and given Spurs something to worry about for the last 15-20 minutes.

Having said that, I?m not quite at the ?Moyes Out? stage, more the ?You?re doing me head in Moysie, sort it?, and although I question a lot of his substitutions, usually the lateness of them, slow progress has been made and I feel we?re treading a very fine line of being a comfortable top 6 side, building up to the ?final? push after a few years of Euro cash, and mid table obscurity. The remaining games, holding on to Mik and where we set our sights for new signings in the summer will decide it. As it is a fine line, and major disruption may move us backwards, I would be prepared to wait and see until the start of next season before slitting his throat.

I don?t have a short memory and people who even suggest that things were better under the likes of Walter need to have a quiet word with themselves as that period was consistently the most boring, negative pile of dross I have ever witnessed, note I said consistently, and if ever there was a time when I watched Everton out of pure habit, and not with optimism, it was then.

If I was to jump on any bandwagon now it would be ?Kenwright Out?. Psitive, progressive thinking and actions come from the top, so if Moyes is to go then Kenwright needs to go with him because we?ll never progress sufficiently while that tosspot and his cronies are ?running? the club, regardless of the manager.
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

The Master Plan

Pre Match Talk between Davey and BK

BK: So Davey what are the tactics for tonight?

Davey: Well, Bill I have this great tactical plan to deal with Spurs

BK: Great we really need the points to get into Europe. So whats the plan?

Davey: Well, I am goin to play a Midfielder at Right Back and a Central Defender at Left Back.

BK: But I thought we had a right back and a left back fit?

Davey: I'm keeping them on the bench.

BK : But.....

Davey: Then I am going to play a centre forward who hasn't scored in open play for about 12 Months alongside a young lad who really hasn't got a great touch yet.

BK: But I thought Vaughn was fit?

Davey: Never mind that, because at half-time I am going to take off the young forward, leave on the forward who can't score goals and then bring on a left back and play him on the left midfield.

BK: But I thought Da Silva was on the bench?

Davey: Your point is?

BK: Errmmmm

Davey: Anyway, then I am going to take off one our most creative midfielders about 10 minutes from the end. Bring on a right back ? to play at right back!! Cunning eh! Then I'm going to play the guy who played at right back in the middle.

BK: But wouldn't it be better to bring on a fresh player like Da Silva to play in the middle ? Spurs have a really good midfield?

Davey: Wait for the final peice of the master plan - 2 minutes from the end of the game I am going to take off the left back that I brought on, at half-time, to play at left midfield and bring on a forward who is one of our great prospects!!

BK: And you're confident it will work?

Davey: Trust me I am the Manager.
Les Hay, Chester  (22/2/07)

Snr Players Stand Up

Absolutely disgusted with what went on last night but I won't dwell on the facts that have already been stated by the other posts in here.

Somebody mentioned Howard kicking the post and Lyndon mentions about how disgusted Beattie and Arteta must have been. I wonder do any of the players actually tell Moyes of their frustrations? If it was me I couldn't help give him down the banks in the changing room and let him know that he cost us 3 points tonight. So what if he drops you or fines you, chances are he'll only play you out of position anyway.

Final point, there is no way that Arteta, Fernandes, Lescott et al are going to stay at the end of the season. Kenwright has to decide who is the future of this club, young exciting players, or a coward of a manager with no will or desire to win. Who replaces him? Who cares, it can't be as bad as this shite.
Ste Boileau, Walton  (20/2/07)

Reflections on a defeat

Last night, my knee jerked and I vented my spleen and now I?m in a reflective mood. I still think that Moyes got it wrong last night; I still think he could have made decisions at crucial stages in the game that might have swung things in our favour, notably cannier substitutions and braver tactics.

However, this game has exposed Everton football club?s major flaw. We just do not have enough playing strength in depth to counter injuries to key personnel. Whose fault is that?

Well, I?d suggest that solely blaming Moyes is wrong. True; he bought Beattie, a player being talked about at that time as a possible England World Cup striker ? who amongst us could honestly foresee how ineffective he?d prove to be? The simple fact is, we lose AJ and we are left with a dead duck and a couple of kids. The more I see of Anichibe the more I?m convinced that he isn?t quite good enough at this level (yet?) Vaughan is still an unknown quantity.

Any manager that Everton appoint in the future is going to have to work within the constraints of the tight purse strings that Blue Bill holds tighter than Robbie Williams holds a bottle of Cocodamol. This is a fact.

To credit Moyes he?s finally developed a quality spine of the team; goalkeeper ? centre half ? Central midfield - Centre Forward. (Howard, Lescott, Yobo, Arteta, Fernandez, AJ) I firmly believe that outside the top four clubs these players are as good as any in the Premier League and crucially (for Blue Bill and possibly the survival of our club) they never cost the Earth.

This leads me to ask a further question; if these players are as good as they look at times, why are our performances so inconsistent? This has to be down to how the manger chooses to play these players ? in other words strategy and tactics.

I think the balance-point re supporter?s tolerance has been tipped ? I don?t go as far as some of the mentalist ?told you so? happy clappies who getting rid of Moyes has become a religious cause akin to a Jihad but I do think that perhaps the ?Bad Moyes? is starting to outweigh the ?Good Moyes?

Trouble is ? if he goes who and I don't think he will for a very long time; who is going to replace him? The possible answers to that question worries me more than sticking with Moyes.
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (22/2/07)

Peanuts & Monkeys

How's that again . . . "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys"? Don?t get me wrong. I am not in any way implying that the players or Manager or even the much maligned Management of the (once great) Everton Football Club are simians in any way. I am not even going to begin my Moyes bashing and criticize the Board. I just want to point out that Football in general has changed drastically and it's all about money and investments.

Lets face it - this once great club is not and cannot compete with the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or even Spurs or lets say Newcastle in terms of money. Realistically, there should be no delusions of grandeur. I know it's easier said than done but the sooner we realize that our Manager (and his tactics) is nothing but mediocre, the lesser will be our expectations. Finishing 4th a couple of seasons ago was nothing short of a miracle. Asking this Manager to repeat this, year-in, year-out, would be to deceive ourselves.

If we want to mix it with the big boys on a regular basis, there must be ambition backed by solid investments and of course a Manager with track record and pedigree. Until such time, we can only dream and hope that we finish the season with a decent standing.
Wally Melwani, Singapore  (22/2/07)

How 'bout this?

Here's a manager for you. Read the last sentence.

Having said that, I hope Moyes is around for a while longer. IMIT, if not IMWT!
Ed MacDonald, East Lothian  (21/02/07)

Thanks, Mr Moyes

I would just like to take this opportunity to thank David Moyes. I moved to Jersey a few years ago and since then have travelled home at least 5/6 times a season for home games and at least 4/5 away games. My love affair with Everton cost me a fortune, until now. I have to say enough is enough!

Never in my life have I felt such a fool for actually sticking up for this idiot when I seen the subs board go up! My heart sank as I just knew that would be curtains and we would be getting a pasting! My, the whole fucking crowd did! Don't get me wrong; I am thankful for Davie's intervention at a time we were going nowhere but he has reached his peek now its time for another man to try to get us further.

By my calcualtion, I work Dave out to have cost us a minimum of 12 points this season: Wigan, Man City, Newcastle away, etc etc. This I think would not have happened under a more positive man. For way too long now, us Evertonians have accepted mid-table mediocrity as success, well not me boys, not no fuckin more.

One of my mates whilst watching the game commented "this is a good Spurs side, a point isnt bad"??? Fuckin Spurs, we should be battering them teams, shake hands and sent them back down the motorway with nothing more than a hammering.

Well as I started this with, thanks you Mr Moyes, you will have saved me a fortune on flights, tickets, etc as no longer will I pay my money to watch such negative rubbish!!!
Garry Lloyd, Jersey  (22/2/07)

`If you want aggravation......`

Back home in the early hours with the missus `waiting up` but snoring her bloody head off, I just needed a Tony Marsh style rant so sat at the computer to deliver. Then she awakes ,so she got it! `For Chrissake`, she says,`if it makes you this upset, why do you bother driving 250 miles every five minutes ? I can give you aggravation if that`s what you get off on!`.

By this morning I had calmed down with blood pressure `top` figure sneaking below 200 but the anger hasn`t abated. Anger at the fact that my club can be stupid enough to pay a tactical buffoon a million quid a year to fuck up so badly. Anger that he so misuses the not inconsiderable talent he has at his disposal so badly. Anger that we shall almost certainly lose our star players because of their obvious frustration. Anger that he is so totally clueless in the development of young players.Anger that it has taken so long for so many to see through him.

And anger that Blue Bill will still do nothing about it!
Harry Meek, Worcester  (22/2/07)

Moyes + Ambition = zero

I'm wondering just how ambitious Mr Moyes really is. Wouldn't it suit him to finish a mediocre 9th or 10th rather than a possible 5th or 6th??? After all he is still a young manager, he is still learning. Finishing 5th or 6th would raise expectation that Moyes lack of talent has no chance of achieving, while a good solid 10th keeps us much more grounded and moving slowly in the right direction

Who knows, in 2 or 3 years time Moyes might set his stall out to finish a little higher, possibly 8th, I reckon by 2020 even 5th might be possible. After the farce of the Champions League adventure, do Bill and Moyes want us to be successful??? I'm not so sure...
John Audsley, Leeds  (22/02/07)

You think you're having a bad.....

I work in London with a Tottenham Supporter, a Liverpool Suporter and a Chelsea Supporter, you can imagine how my day is going can't you. Thanks boys, no really thanks.
Paul Fuller, London/Essex  (22/2/07)

Moyes out? Why?

Well I?ve officially heard it all now. Moyes out? Moyes out? For what possible reason could you want him out?

Because he flooded the pitch with defenders with ten minutes to go, with a winnable game poised at one all? Because he has continually overlooked our most exciting striking talent since Wayne Rooney time and again? For turning the most talented bunch of players to pull on the blue jersey in years into the footballing equivalent of Eastenders?

For providing a 20-goal-a-season striker with no real supply line to work with? Please!

For lowering expectations to a point where the Intertoto Cup with be considered a success? For the worst series of cup runs in living memory? For playing one of the most talented English centre-backs in the country at full back? For Andy Van Der Meyde, James Beattie and James McFadden? For slowly bringing us to the point where we are afraid to check the internet or teletext to check the score?

Plea?..oh wait, actually yeah good point. Moyes out.
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (22/2/07)

Get a Grip

We got beat last night and there were undoubtedly some poor substitutions on display. However, tactics were not all that bad, you lot just refuse to see them.

He changed the side at half time and you have to admit that for the majority, the 2nd half was a much better Everton performance. Were Paul Traill gets Beattie as man of the match from, God only knows. Lescott was easily the best man on the park ? out of position with the hardest man to mark ? Lennon.

Secondly 34,000 attendance. Thats a disgrace. I know they didn't fill their allocation but the upper Gwladys is a joke. The People's Club... It's all very well calling for Moyes's head - bringing up the 'he's crap in the transfer market', he can't change the side when we are 1 down etc... but it's just nonsense. transfer market: Cahill, Howard, Lescott, Arteta - hardly bad buys. Tactics - didn't we draw at the emirates (when most have been beaten) - 3-0 against Liverpool, 0-0 at Anfield. 2-0 a Spurs away. etc.etc.

The fact is - WE ARE STILL 8th - not 10th, not top half, not 17th (as Lyndon puts it). Before Moyes arrived we were lucky to be in the Premiership and thats the upshot of his management.

Plain and simple from where I was sitting, last night the players didn't perform and there is nothing any Manager can do about that on the night ? whether he is Moyes, Mourinho or Ferguson. The lads didn't want it last night and it was obvious. Neville and Osman hardly broke a sweat.

So... get off the bandwagon and start going the game and getting behind the team. No doubt you guys will have a smutty, sarcastic comment about my post that I will not be allowed to reply to.
Jamie Rowland, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Made for each other

David Moyes and Bill Kenwright are a marriage made in heaven, safe in the knowledge that the security of mediocrity that pervades the Club will ensure that their cosy relationship continues to flourish. The apathy within the boardroom, malaise in the manager and his backroom staff and the frustration on the terraces is breeding a unhealthy and suffocating environment.

Being an Evertonian has never been easy, but the gloom, desperation and lack of direction in every single facet of the Club is becoming seriously apparent. If Moyes is no longer the man to lead us forward then Mr Kenwright needs to do the honourable thing and give up this silly grip on the trainset, its a fantasy and you have lived the dream.

Radical change is needed but who has the heart to start the revolution ?
Peter Laing, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Last night ? That really hurt

I don't suppose I can say anything that hasn't already been said much better than I could express it. I wear my heart on my sleeve and I can only talk about my passion for the Blues and how much last night hurt me and thousands of you guys too. David from Sydney, yes, I'll get over it, it's only a game, but to lose it in such a fashion was unforgiveable and humiliating.

It wasn't so much the actual losing, it was the way in which it all unravelled in front of our eyes and we are so powerless to do anything but sit there and watch our team being ripped apart - not by the other team but by our own bloody manager.

At last week's match against Blackburn we were all hanging on and muttering 'Man City' in the last 10 minutes as we appeared to sit back and defend but, well, last night? DM's tactics cost us AGAIN.

So the points lost now read Spurs, Reading, Man City and Wigan. The first of those three, in my opinion are as a direct result of DM's tactics. The crap last night, the defence of the free kick against Reading and the substitution against Man City. There's probably more but hey, those are enough to paint the picture.

I have never, ever booed anyone in Blue, be it the manager or a player but last night I just couldnt believe what was happening and I let rip like thousands around me. Why try to beat Spurs at their own game with those giant centre backs? And to try and beat them with BT?

Well, it's easy with hindsight to pick holes in what was done but all through the game I just couldn't see what shape we were playing. There was so much huffing and puffing but in contrast to the first half against Blackburn, we seemed to have no ideas who to pass to. Without Mikel's superb goal we would have been even more humiliated.

I've spat my dummy out before and stayed away for one game, only to return like the lemming that I am but last night will take some swallowing. European Football? Yes, If I catch an EasyJet flight to Milan or Madrid. That's as close as it'll get for this season. I'm struggling to see how anyone can defend such a series of misjudgements by the manager. It really was awful. Frankly, I'm just embarrassed by it all. Thank god it wasnt live on Sky.

I love Everton but this affair with the Blues is becoming harder to maintain - not because of the players (mostly) but because I can't see what's in the future except more of the same crap. I have no idea who could replace DM but well, something's gotta give, and soon. But what do the Board care? They know that soft arses like me will eventually go back because of our love and passion for our team, we'll be there long after DM or BK have left with a wallet full of dosh.

Losing hurts but losing like that REALLY hurts.
Lue Glover, Flint  (23/2/07)

A sea change?

It seems rather like pissing in the wind to contribute to the mailbag at times like this. With the flood of assessments coming in one wonders whether anything you say is likely to be read with any sort of objectivity. Yet I still think it worth putting in my tuppence worth.

For me last night represented something of a sea change for the club. I still maintain only reactionists would call for Moyes to be turfed out immediately; but, crucically, the time has now come when those who see no fault with Moyes have been forced to face up to some hard truths.

Richard Dodd is quite right to point out it is just one defeat, just one setback, but, as anyone can see, the manner of the setback was profoundly disturbing. No longer can it be claimed that those buffetting Moyes are a troublesome minority, boos echoed around all sides of Goodison last night and the reality is the remainder of Moyes's aura from the 02-03 and 04-05 seasons was shattered.

In the harsh morning light, Moyes's claims of 'making difficult decisions' with regard to subbing on Naysmith and Hibbert hold little weight. Anichebe, by all accounts, played poorly and the introduction of Naysmith granted us a semblance of control. But this was a match we needed to win and Moyes knew it. To retreat increasingly into our shell and to actively encourage that not only by introducing greater defensive cover but ignoring the one injection of pace and drive that he had available to him implies a man lacking surity, belief or will to dominate and drive on upwards. What happened to the man who would think nothing of throwing Ferguson, Radzinski and Rooney on together if he felt we needed a goal? Where did the manager who blooded two of the Premiership's three youngest goalscorers go?

It's painful to see a man who gave us so much belief looking so uncertain of his team's ability to do the fundamentals required to win games.

A sea-change indeed occurred last night. Not one that merits immediate action but one that turned on a series of spotlights. All eyes will be on Moyes between now and season's end and his every decision will be scrutinised. One hopes he will learn from his errors, instill some belief into himself, his troops and have the courage to make changes. If the season peters out (as it has done so often under his tenure) 07-08 will begin with knives already scratching his spine.

European qualification remains a possibility; history will record this as a defeat like any other. By the end of the season it may have been forgotten as a bad day at the office but, whilst the records will simply say three points to Tottenham, something insidious came of age on the pitch last night and unless Moyes can banish it emphatically it will only grow.
John Holmes, York  (22/2/07)

Surely its time now...

... to get the 'Moyes Out' banners prepared, painted and rolled up, ready to be unfurled at the Arsenal game. I'm sorry, oh ginger one, I've hated you for a couple of years now, but it really is time for you to go. If Billy Liar won't sack you then please please walk away. You have made our club the laughing stock.

Last night really should be the final straw for your Everton career. Your football bores the pants off us, switching formation from 4-4-2 to 6-3-1 doesn't promote anything like attacking football against Spurs, like it didn't against City. Before last night it was probably 60-40 against you, surely now its only 10% of blues who are still blinded by your fantastic, wonderful achievements (!)

Finally, I heard your pathetic interview last night after the match and you know you've lost the fans. The only thing I was amazed at was that you never come out with "We've got a really hard working group of players who've come a long way since I've been here". David Moyes, please go.
Dave Woods, Warrington  (22/2/07)

Go Now

We had this game sewn up. Three points there to be taken, second half total domination ? what does the idiot Moyes do? Plays for a draw and comes unstuck. Bugger off, Moyes and take your Championship tactics with you.

I WAS pro-Moyes ? not any more after that debacle!
Mike Seyah, Wirral  (22/2/07)

When the fat lady sings

Just as I had one foot back in the pro-Moyes camp BANG! ? he goes and does it again

While I know I'm only one voice on an independent website, is there any supporter in England or even the world [Dodd, Attress, or even Kenwright himself] that would not prefer to see his team go down all guns blazing rather than a pathetic wimper?

Make no mistake, this is the best Everton team/squad weve had for years which I also acknowledge is down to Moyes BUT and it's an increasing but he can't or won't get the best out of them. All he's doing now is ensuring the likes of Arteta, Johnson, Cahill, (and i bet fernandes is impressed as well will get fed up an go.

Finally, when the fat lady sings (and she's surely clearing her throat now) Moyes cost us last night ? not the players, just Moyes. How much we will only find out at the end of the season.

ps: On a personal note, I would just like to thank Mikel Arteta for the many moments of class he has shown us since his arrival. I'm sure he will be gone this year especially without Euro football again. ALL THE BEST, LAD: RIGHT PLACE WRONG TIME
Terry Downes, Stoke  (22/2/07)

Big fat deal

I personally think you're all crazy to use the Spurs defeat as an indication of the Moyes reign. I don't remember people doing the same thing when we beat them up at the Lane earlier this season.

It's one defeat, one very disappointing defeat but that's all it is. Get over it.
Paul Atress, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

No Idea

First we need to ensure that Hibbert and Vaughan know the boos were not for them but for the stupid decisions of the manager.

We were under the cosh, at the time, so he brought on another defender to strengthen up the right side - that's where Spurs were making chances.

Of course this made the players play even deeper (if that was possible) with absolutely no outlet.

Now I'm not a manager but surely putting on an extra forward to occupy Spurs would have helped. Don't forget the passes leading to the goalcame from Spurs defenders playing 20 yards in our half!!

If we can see it why can't he. The entire team were camped on the edge of our box with no outlet or pace up front if we got the ball back. Then adding to it the desperation of making the change he should have made 10-15 minutes earlier two minutes into injury time. Beggards belief.

I was never a Moyes out person but if we get a few more of these moronic decisions (IMO) then I'll jump on that bandwagon with the other posters.
Steve Linden, Liverpool  (22/02/07)

Even a night's sleep hasn't helped

I was working in Andover yesterday and rushed 200+ miles to get home on time to pickup my relatives and take them to the game last night. I was disappointed with the line up; howBeattie gets a game when his body language and general play are shite but at least we had Vaughan and Da Silvaon the bench so some optionsbut knowing Moyes it would be Grimsmith who got the shout first.

As the game went on the usual hoofball went straight to Gardiner (now there's a surprise) and the first goal was a shocker to concede leaving Berbatov an easy smash in. Suddenly the players started playing the ball on the floor with some good movement and build up play resulting in an excellent free kick and equaliser. Thought at last game on.

The second half then really upset me. Moyes the genius taking off Anichebe for Grimsmith which meant 4-5-1 to which I have lost bloody count of pointing out Beattie NEVER HAS and NEVER BLOODY WILL BE a lone striker- the lazy get struggles with a player along side him for Christ's sake. The build up play continued for a little while but it became obvious the ginger idiot had set up his negative shite to accept the drawat home and to shut up shop, so prepare for a Tottenham onslaught. Carsley, Beattie and Neville looked knackered and Osman was tiring badly too but hey it's Moyes' squad and two possible positive changes were running up and down the touchline for what seemed an eternity so maybe just maybe he would bring on one or both.

I can't even remember seeing Hibbert warming up and suddenly ginger clown decides ok lets fuck it up big time and remove Fernandes for Hibbert, everyone around me almost in Unison knew what was coming next and said Moyes would get slaughtered when it did and bingo the sucker punch Tottenham winner-bearing in mind Jol had introduced Malbranque and was about to throw on Defoe a clear statement of intent.

One of my passengers to the match is my Auntie who sits in the family enclosure near the dug out and she said Moyes absolutely shit himself and head down introduced Vaughan with not enough time to make an impact purely with the crowd baying for his blood all around him. Again the right subtitution but thanks to Moyes at the wrong bloody time.

So if asked yes I am absolutely disgusted, knee jerk reaction - I don't agree, Moyes simply isn't learning from his mistakes with this an almost mirror image of the late Weir substitution earlier in the season. I drove for over four bloody hours to get in time for the game which was thrown away by that subborn idiot and his negative repetative mistakes. The apologists can say we are in eighth place but we should be three points better off in a game that was easily winnable,playing for a draw lost us the game, I have no patience or faith in Moyes any more.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (22/02/07)

Say no more, nudge nudge, wink wink...

...know what I mean squire. Talk about steal my thunder. All the bases Re Moyes and Kenwright have been covered below and most eloquently, all the apologists bar one, silent... yes you at the back Mr Dodd, but full marks for tenacity.

From the booing fans point of view it seems like a case of deadman walking, but how long until the penny drops, rolls along the floor and slips though the crack in the floorboards of kenwright mansions to oblivion taking us with it.

Come on Bill do the decent thing, or if you can't manage that, what about a 'vote of confidence' and 'full backing' then he can be gone on or about his 5yr aniversary.

He who dares wins you plonker you know it makes sense.

PS...hint; not Irvine or anybody we've had before.
Derek Thomas, Auckland New Zealand  (22/02/07)

Lost the Moyes Moderates

I would consider myself a 50/50 - seeing progress from Moyes and willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that, as we steadily reinforced with better players, better football would follow.

No longer. Last night was humiliating - the Blues trying to hang on at home for a point after we had dominated a half against one of the worst away sides in the Premiership. Withdrawing one of our best players of the night and leaving Vaughan and Da Silva on the bench. Bringing Vaughan on in the 90th minute when he nearly scores. As all posters but the wilfully self-deluding have said: it beggars belief. And it is not Everton.

We will not qualify for Europe now, and Moyes must go. The urgent need is to hold on to our quality players - Arteta, Cahill, Johnson, Lescott, Yobo, Fernandes. For that better Moyes goes sooner rather than later. Now seems a good time.
Neil Pearse, London  (22/2/07)

You were warned...

In his defence Moyes did say last week that 'from here on he was going to approach every game as he would a cup game'...
neil scott, southport  (22.02.07)

Get over it

So we lost. Get over it. We are eigth in the league and one point away from safety with over thirty points to play for in the remainder of the season. Looks to me like we are still ahead of Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham, Man City, 11 other clubs. My god, kill Moyes!! He tried to get to 40 points but didnt end up doing it today. If he'd have thrown on a striker and we'd still lost, you clowns would be singing the same song.

I've got a question for you. Who would you see coaching Everton instead. Don't tell me. Last year it would have been Paul Jewell. This year? Harry Redknapp or Allardyce? Most other clubs would kill fr the stability Moyes provides. I reckon we'd have been relegated already if it werent for him. Fickle fans like you guys dont deserve a team like we have. Go support United, they love tosspots like you guys.
David S, Sydney  (22/02/07)

Time for a change

Both games were shown simultaneously on different screens in the expat bar last night. Surrounded by Cockney Reds and Spurs fans just added to my feelings of desperation. I thought I'd better sober up before writing this but I still feel the same. The sad truth is, Everton are becoming an irrelevance to most people now, and it's down to Davey. Great Evertonian, but he's got to go. After 41 years I've seen it all and this is the nadir. Whether he should have started with Beattie, whether we should have played 4-5-1 or 10-0 is immaterial; he's taken us as far as he can. Carey, even Bingham and Lee achieved more but were given less time.

We can bang on about the great Dixie, Rotterdam and the School of Science, but they are our great encumbrances. Really, nobody gives a shit any more. We need a bigger manager than Moysey but we need our pride back, beautiful football and a few cup runs. Oh, and we need to dislodge Kenwright. Any ideas?
Rob Lloyd, Saudi Arabia  (22/2/07)

Smug Benitez was right...

I hate to say it but the management performance from Moyes in the match against Spurs demonstrated a 'small club' mentality... trying to protect a draw at home with 10 minutes left is essentially what Championship sides do against bigger clubs to try and gain cup replays. With an attitude like that we are going nowhere!

Change needed ? urgently!
Matt Willey, Rushden  (22/2/07)

Statistics, True or False?

Mr Moyes and his supporters will no doubt hide behind statistics. We have improved squad-wise and results-wise since the halcyon days of Walt. But was Walter a worse manager? Was he more negative than Mr Moyes?

Walter had his hands tied; Davie has not had. I also think that Moyesie has spent well on players to which I think most will agree. So why the upset with the fans and let's face it, it?s been brewing like a pressure-cooker for a while now. Tonight has seen the lid fly off.

I think the reason he has been persisted with from a fans point of view is that he is superb at interviews and he does speak a great game. But he has been found out now. It pains me to say but the writing is on the wall and I find it bizarre that we lie in 8th but we have had enough of the piss-poor football every week.

I park at the Mons and have to suffer the same hike along the same pavement, past the same dog shit after every result like today. It seems to happen more often than the elated feeling you get when we win well. Why do we do it? God only knows... but after Liverpool?s result tonight we seem further away than ever from catching them.
James Bretland, Old Roan  (22/2/07)

Cup runneth EMPTY

Moyes's request for the players to treat remaining league games like the cup seems be 'working': The Spurs debacle would appear to show the players are treating the last 12 games like they generally do the cup... good job we've scraped enough points to survive I guess!

What a total embarrassment and the fans deserve a LOT more in terms of performances and results, from the manager and players, particularly at home.
Pete Moore, Singapore  (22/2/07)

Worst Manager Ever ? That's Moyes

The best thing about last night's game was the sound of our fans booing Moyes. Thats how bads it's become. I really hope that this is the beginning of the end for Deadly Dave. I have never seen such a poor managerial display from an Everton coach in all my life.

The most pathetic football ever witnessed inside Goodison Park is being masterminded by the most useless and charmless manager you could ever find. In the end last night we where returned to the dark days of early last season and all of Moyes's failings came home to roost all at once. The pitifull sight of a man lost in his own inability, substituting the substitutes, was too much to take and the loyal Evertonians all around the ground turned on him.

There is no way on this earth that the likes of Cahill, Arteta and the rest of the decent players will want to stay around this man Moyes much longer. He is draining all of them of thier spirit and turning the game into a soulless and joyless experience for every one. Kenwright doesnt give a fuck about us fans ? if he did, he would fuck Deadly Dave right off tomorrow morning.

Playing at home in a match that was there for the taking... why did we end up having 8 defenders on the pitch? Moyes is a COWARD that's why and he will never change. I have repeatedly gone on about this clown for years now but still found it hard to convince people I was right. I dont need to try and convince anyone anymore, surely.

This has got to be the end of Moyes and for fuck's sake will the likes of Attress, Cottee and Dodd get thier heads out of thier arses and get behind the "Moyes Out" movement? We all owe it to ourselves and to the name of Everton FC to get shut of this clueless fuckwit Moyes.

MOYES OUT, MOYES OUT, MOYES OUT...
Tony Marsh, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

Idiot

"I understand the fans' frustrations, no one is more frustrated than me. But I felt we were more likely to win it in the closing minutes than them."
Ben Brown, Nottingham  (22/2/07)

Moyes lost the 50/50 fans tonight

I feel compelled for the first time to post, due to a mixture of mainly anger but also to a lesser extent alcoholism. Did I leave depression out?

On to tonight's game, I do feel the red-haired one lost all the 50/50 fans. I am old enough to remember Gordon Lee and Howard Kkendall when they were under pressure, releatively soon after taking command of Everton, and the abuse was relentless. Somehow, Moyes has had a honeymoon lasting nigh on five years now, and whilst i think there has been an improvement squad wise, this has gone ultimatly against "the Moyesiah" due to an inability to extract the best from them. Is our cup record over this time just a coincidence? I fear not.

My fear is that the likes of Arteta, who was again outstanding tonight, must look at this negativity and wonder... why? Get yer cash on him not being here next season. In all my years watching Everton, I can honestly say the reaction from the crowd was on a par, at least, to anything I have witness before. The worry now for the man is that, once the crowd turn, it is almost impossible to retrieve the situation, and make no bones abou it ? the crowd has turned. Howard Kendall turned it back around in 84-85 but Moyes is no Howard Kendall, I am sad to say...
James Bretland, Olad Roan  (21/2/07)

When is enough... enough!?!

Does this Scottish apology for a manager anger us Evertonians deliberately, I wonder? Ask any of the 35-odd thousand Evertonians in the ground and they'd all I'd bet make the same bold and foward thinking substitutions unless of course its our genius manager who doesn't watch the game in the same way.

Moyes, why are you still persisting with a buffoon up front who ain't scored a goal from open play in donkey's years?!

Do the right thing, mate, and resign, because we all know Billy Bullshit loves your arse and ain't gonna pull the trigger! Please do it, for the fans' sake!
Kunal Desai, London  (21/2/07)

From my seat

No points toward safety or Europe from a dismal game that saw Spurs boss the first half; but for a quality free kick from Arteta, I think the game may have been over at half-time.

Having been given the lifeline, the manager decides to change things for the second period by replacing the ineffectual Anichebe with Naysmith thus signalling his intention of going for the draw. Although Naysmith was of no more use than nusiance value as a left-midfielder, we actually bossed the half and, if Osman could only get a decent foot to the ball rather than his trademark scuff, we may have capitalised on his undoubted knack of getting into great scoring positions.

With 20 mins to go, many a Blue was calling for Vaughan to be given a run in place of a nondescript Beattie, especially as the excellent Fernandes demonstrated time and again he knew how to pick a pass to split a defence for a quick player to get onto. However, with the game petering out toward a draw, which I think both teams would have taken, our erstwhile manager made one of the most tactically inept substitutions I have witnessed in many a long year: he replaced the gifted Fernandes, who had been knitting our midfield together all game, with Hibbert and drafted Neville into midfield ,which gave us two holding midfielders and no craft.

It's a long time since I have heard four sides of the ground booing a substitution ? can thirty-odd thousand be wrong!?! The Spurs bench and players eyes lit up, they sent on another attacker and as a team they went for us. The inevitable happened: Jenas, with no Fernandes chiveing him, had the time and space to slot home.

The manager in my uneducated view cocked up bigtime and compounded his lack of nous by sending on the eager Vaughan with only 90 secs to go. This move was seen by many fans in the ground as just ludicrous.

The loss of AJ and Cahill was felt but in my book in no way accounted for this performance. Whilst being neither pro- nor anti-Moyes, I hope to hell he has learned something from tonight's offering and, come Saturday, the journey to Watford will at least afford us a more tactically aware gameplan and make the trip worthwhile. Still, everyone makes mistakes, so here's hoping. See you Sat -- UP THE BLUES
Ken Buckley, Buckley  (21/2/07)

Just a minor setback

I suppose it is to be expected that Evertonians will be disapointed to lose a game after such a good run of results but that`s football! No one could deny that we were very poor in the first half and changes needed to be made. With three or four key players unavailable, Davey had very little to choose from but utilised his available resources so that we were undoubtedly the better side in the second period. Only a very well taken goal in the final minute prevented Everton from getting the point they so deserved but with AJ and Hibbo back on Saturday we can look forward to resuming our winning ways at Watford.

I think we all know we have a good side and a very capable manager ? let`s try harder not to over-react at the odd setback. Please.
Richard Dodd, Formby  (21/2/07)

We get what we deserve

Ain't that the fact but lets not forget who hired the manager.

I am afraid this this result will be another sad milestone in a long history failed football managers hired by foolish Chairman of Everton football club. Everton will not go down this season but we have time, as fans, to address the Boardroom management.

I wish Moyes the best of luck in his new job but I will not say the same for Bill Kenwright when we have to prise his cold hands from the boardroom door and the petty cash box.
John Cribb, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Tonights game

After another inept tactical decision. I wonder was Paul Gregg wrong on his forward vision for Everton, that meant getting rid of Moyes?
Colin Malone, Wirral  (21/2/07)

Sums up being a Blue tonight

Before the Spurs game we had a game in hand (at home) on the other Euro hopefuls around us and we go and blow it yet again. I then get home absolutely soaked after a two-mile walk and find Liverpool have won in the Nou Camp just to add injury to insult.

Regardless of where we finish this season (probably around 10th), I think the Board should be looking to the summer now and finding a good foreign coach and some funds for him. Every team coming to Goodison that can play a bit always gives us a leason in passing. Spurs may still be below us but let's be honest, they are a far superior footballing side. The School of Science closed down many years ago, I am sad to say.
Chris Hughes, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Hearts and Minds

I'm sure that I am not alone in my frustration tonight. Tottenham are a dangerous team, but there was a real opportunity to state our intent to push for a European place, despite being without two key players; what transpired, left me numb, saddened and unsure of where we are going as a football club.

David Moyes is, I believe, a fine young manager who has undoubtedly improved the calibre and profile of our playing staff during his tenure, but his tactical lapses are beginning to undermine the support that he has enjoyed from the majority of the Goodison faithful. We should not be making defensive substitutions at home, with five minutes left on the clock; indeed I would question why we brought on Naysmith rather than Vaughan for the second half, when we had the impetus from Arteta's goal? Had we done so, and still lost, I think that there would have been less of an angry clamour.

As it stands, the consequence of both decisions simply gives more bullets to those who would shoot down David Moyes now and will add an unwelcome pressure for our next home game against Arsenal. Of course, if we win at Watford and Sheffield Utd. then there will be less expectation and conservatism applauded, but if we don't...

Everton supporters want the best of both worlds - three points from every game and a return to the 'School of Science' that we enjoyed in the 60s and the 80s. I hope David Moyes is the man to bring us that, but he must learn from his mistakes if he is to do so and after what happened at the end of the Manchester City game in September and what happened tonight, I would suggest that he has work to do in that department before we can look forward to siverware.
Andy Powell, Dalmally, Argyll  (21/2/07)

Oh dear me...

Something said it all for me today: sitting in the Park End and Howard is waiting to take a goal-kick, then the substitution board comes up, ?Manuel Fernandes will be replaced by Tony Hibbert? ? so Howard turns around and twats the goalpost ? anyone else see this?

Howard even knew that it was a no-brainer ? Moyes has got till the end of the season to impress me. If we do not reach Europe then, sorry, Moyes?
Mark Parsons, Liverpool  (22/2/07)

My mistake

Previously, I have stated that, while Moyes is crap, everyone else is equally crap. I was wrong. Moyes is the crappest.

This reminds me of Joe Royle's last few months where we went from fantastic attacking football culminating in the 7-1 win over Soton and somehow rapidly deteriorated into long-ball, defensive garbage that took us straight back down the table.

Moyes did a job. He took us away from relegation. The trouble is that people like Moyes, Royle, Bassett etc can do ONLY that but if you are going to WIN you need a winner in charge. Clearly Moyes is a loser.
Kieran Kinsella, Gainesville, FL, USA  (22/2/07)

Turning point

... and the Yo-Yo swings again.

21/02/07 could be the beginning of the end for David Moyes. I'm not usually one for knee-jerks but faint heart never won fair lady nor a football match. I'm almost tempted to use the phrase cowardice in the face of the enemy...

Shocking decision-making from the Ginger One.
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (21/2/07)

Tr-Ash Wednesday

Well it would happen that way wouldn't it? The results probably went the way we had most feared they would.

But, for God's sake, when is Moyes going to learn that ? at home, in particular ? we expect the Blues to go and attack and at least try to win the game. OK, two of our most influential players were missing but how can you possibly justify bringing on Naysmith and Hibbert when the scores are level? Why didn't he bring on Hibbert at half-time and move Neville into midfield? At least that would have given him the option of bringing Vaughan into the fray later in the game.

I'll forgive poor performances, and defeats, but I cannot forgive an Everton manager who hands the initiative to the oppposition with annoying regularity. Away from home, it is maybe forgivable, but not at Goodison. Tonight, I fear signals the beginning of the end of the Moyes era and I'm sorry but he will never achieve what we all hoped that he would achieve.

Ah well... who do we get next? Europe not this season ? that's for sure.
John Patrick McFarlane, Lancs  (21/2/07)

Tonight's game

Well, what can I say? The usual feelings of disappointment after losing a game have been replaced by anger and disgust. Whatever went through Moyes's head when bringing Hibbert on was just suicidal. Did he not learn not to employ this tactic when he brought Weir on against City?!

The whole fucking ground was screaming for Vaughan to come on for most of the second half and we see Hibbert standing on the touch line. It just beggars belief. How can Moyes not see what thirty odd thousand other people can see?

The writing was on the wall before the game started though. Fair enough we were without some of our best attacking players (Johnson, Cahill, Van der Meyde, Valente ? yeah he's a defender but he gets forward and puts in a mean cross) but the negativity was inexcusable. Starting Beattie and Anichebe together was a hideous decision and only served to encourage the hoof ball tactics we all despise. Beattie and Anichebe have no pace, no skill and no passing ability between them. What exactly was the plan? Every person I speak to rates Vaughan above Anichebe and I just wonder what the lad must be doing for Moyes to ignore him the way he has been.

Moyes's post match comments will no doubt be pounced upon by many and I can't blame people for doing that. The man has basically stated that he wanted to ensure he didn't lose the game rather than attempt to win it. This is from the same man who yesterday said we need to go on a winning run to secure our UEFA cup spot. The lack of ambition, for me, was very sad and leads me to question whether Moyes shares the same ambitions as the fans. The boos he received when the change was made were totally justified and were the first clear signs of disapproval towards him by a majority of fans. I hope he is embarassed by the way in which, I feel, he disrespected every paying fan at Goodison.

ps: Osman was beyond a joke today and has to be dropped.
Sean Rothwell, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Who was right ?

A short while ago, I was berated for asking for Moyes's resignation. Leaving all personal abuse aside (and boy could I deliver some ) I believe tonights inept managerial decisions fully vindicate me. Apoligies on a postcard please.
Stephen Lyth, In a shit cloud  (21/2/07)

Welcome to Moyes's World

Well, as painful and humiliating as the last 5 minutes were, at least no one can now be in any doubt where the Moyes era is headed.

After calming down at least a little, it is still hard to believe what I just witnessed. Against a talented but fragile mid-table Spurs team Moyes effectively declared, in front of everyone, that he has no faith in his own team and that, after 5 years, we are left with nothing to build upon.

Nothing will change immediataely of course but now everyone can see he is out of his depth and at long last tonight marked the beginning of the end for Moyes.

Finally I would like to congratulate those Eveton fans who voiced their anger - it shows that at least we have not totally forgotten our heritage. Moyes ? consider yourself served with a notice of eviction!
John Doolan, UK  (21/2/07)

Location or Quality

I've read with interest the debate over the last few weeks about the location of a new ground and the effect it might have on attendance. Sorry, geography won't influence attendance... but the crap we've just been served up tonight will!!

I think we've just witnessed the beginning of the end for David Moyes. Alright, it's not all his fault, there were still eleven men on the pitch when Spurs got the winner and the seven defenders should have done better but come on... We're at home, we are pushing for a place in Europe and Moyes makes decisions like that!?!

He's just lost the support of the majority of fans that witnessed tonight's debacle. And I don't think it was necessarily the result, it was the substitutions that enraged the fans.

So it's not Kirkby, or South Liverpool or anywhere else that will influence support ? its what happens on the pitch: Quality Street or Gwladys Street???
Garry Banks, Ormskirk  (21/2/07)

What really happened?

4:30 am sitting at the computer frustratingly dependent on BBC Live Scores every 2 minutes. I was disappointed that Osman was playing which in my opinion means we are down to 10 grown men before a ball is kicked.

News from those in the nearby TV room, Liverpool scored against Barca. This gave me a sinking feeling that the next update would show Spurs scoring against us. Still there's plenty of time and I am hopeful we will get an equaliser. Arteta has scored and I returned banter with my TV watching red visitors. Now I thought the Blues would drive on for a valuable win. After all, we were the home side and a European spot was up for grabs.

My old doubts about Moyes tactical awareness come to the surface. With game evenly balanced why on earth does he replace a striker with a defender? Anxiously awaited updates now say the game is still in the balance... yet why has Moyes replaced a midfielder with another defender? I am wondering what the hell is going on.

Those in the TV room are jumping for joy, Liverpool playing away from home against one of the games giants have won and commentators are saying that Benitez is a tactical genius. With a sense of dread I wait for the next update on our game...
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (21/2/07)

Psychotic substitutions!

One attacking player replaced by a full-back is bad enough but when you do it twice, you're asking for trouble. Then to make yourself look like a total idiot you go and sub a sub in the 90th minute for the attacker you should have put on in the first place??? Well done, Davey lad, you've just gone and shown all those blinkered people how defense-minded and tactically inept you really are!

Oh and don't think we didn't notice how quickly you kicked your heels down that tunnel too, you shithouse!
Scott Edwards, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

School of Negativity

To me, that did not sound like a minority of people booing from the ground tonight. I, and now it seems the majority, have had enough of Moyes?s negativity. Why on earth he chose to send on Naysmith instead of his one and only other £700,000 midfielder I have no idea.

To finish a winnable game with 6 Defenders really does define David Moyes. Others may say don?t blame Moyes ? he has a small squad ? well whose fault is that? He knew this at the beginning of the season and knew it before the January window slammed shut.

Without Cahill and AJ he was found out badly tonight ? granted not may teams can afford to lose such important players but to come up with tactics like he employed tonight shows that this manager is only fit for survival at best, has shown his true self and has taken Everton as far as he can go.

I am sick of him ? but why bother voicing disgust because we are stuck with him? He will never get sacked ? unless the pressure mounts and the fans consistently express their disapproval and vote with their feet. People are really getting pissed off with this guy now and tonight shows that I am certainly not in the minority when I say that perhaps it is time for a change as Moyes does not share the Everton philosophy.

People will say who are you going to bring in? Well someone with balls and someone who is prepared to throw everything at teams coming to Goodison and give them a hard time, someone who will bring in a winger to provide for our forwards and someone who will play a fit forward at home, not leave him on the bench and go for the jugular and not get hung up about reaching the 'Magical 40 point' mark and try to protect a 1-1 at home at the start of the second half. The Watford game now takes on massive significance ? it is shit or bust as far as any aspirations of Europe are concerned.
Steve Callaghan, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

The night Moyes finally lost us.

That's it now for Moyes, he's lost me. I've long suspected a 50-50 split amongst Blues, for and against the man. Well that has surely swung good style now.

I know you're not keen on wasting space on an Everton site talking about Liverpool ? and rightly so ? but the contrast between us and them hasn't been lost on a single Evertonian tonight, so please don't deny a Blue the chance to say cheers Davey, you've embarassed every Blue who pays your wages tonight and whilst my mates are lombardaring their way down the Ramblas tonight, you've turned me into a bitter, angry, hopeless mug who's pissed wet through from the walk home through Walton.

I have a hunch that it kicked off at half time - I bet Moyes had a pop at Victor for what was a lazy and dispassionate display from the Drogba wannabe. I've got no problems with that Moyesy but the pettiness and ineptitude of bringing on your compatriat instead of Vaughan has removed any faith I (and the rest) still had in you.

You've embarassed us Moyes, and your timing couldn't have been worse. Nice one.
Jon Sellick, Crosby  (21/2/07)

Mr Moyes

Could any of the Moyes fans please explain his subs tonight? It cost us.
Roy Coyne, Old Swan  (22/2/07)

Moyes

Today's game was the last drop for me! Moyes out!
Geir Kannelonning, Norway  (21/2/07)

Astonishing!

I'm so shocked at Moyes's ultra-defensive tactics, I can't hardly muster the will to write without swearing on every line! But today shows that Moyes will never take us forward, nor will we be successful under him.

The players knew it, the crowd definitely knew it, yet the only people who could not see Tottenham were there for the kill was Moyes and Irvine! An absolute disgrace that may have KO'd our Uefa Cup dreams. To play for a draw at home is bewildering!

Even if we get a manager of the same ability but more adventurous than Moyes then he must fall on his sword! Please do the honorable thing and resign!
Luq Yussef, London  (21/2/07)

Tactical Moron

Moyes isn't fit to manage a Sunday league team let alone our beloved Blues. His tactics were exposed for all to see tonight and even the pro-Moyes group should be able to see that he is tactically inept.

He simply has to go, sooner rather than later. Any true Everton supporter would make a better manager. No European football for Everton this season or any other season under Moyes.
Barry Johnson, Colwyn Bay  (21/2/07)

Defensive Idiot

Once again, Moyes proves he is the most negative manager in the Prem. What the hell was he thinking of?? He basically handed the initiative to Spurs!!!

Surely no-one can defend that decision, not even Dodd. I hope Moyes learns but I said that after City early in the season, maybe he is still a young manager and still learning???!!!!

Bollock Moyes, you incompetent numpty.
John Audsley, Leeds  (21/2/07)

Chicken Moyes ... AGAIN

Take a forward off at half-time. Bring on a full back. Take off an attacking midfielder playing well, bring on a full-back. He who dares wins... Spurs did. Does this convince the IMWT crowd that he has NO tactical knowledge whatsoever. This game has been thrown away because the manager not the players has no guts... It has probably cost us a place in the Uefa Cup.
Jim James, Chester  (21/02/07)

PATHETIC!!!!!!!

What a fuckin' joke Moyes is. Another 3 points lost because of that dickhead and his amazing substitutions. How can someone be so negative? We absoluteley battered Spurs for 40 minutes and then he does that. PATHETIC!!!!!!!
Jamie Barlow, Manchester  (21/2/07)

Training Injuries

I have been astounded by the number of injuries Everton players have achieved in training this season. Tonight, Andy Johnson is not playing because of an injury picked up in training. Last week it was Valente, before that there was the McFadden 'head tennis' injury, and on it goes... I contacted the club to enquire why this was the case, a seemingly inordinate amount of injuries in training... The reply was:

Injuries are part and parcel of football and as you should know players do get injured in training. Football is a contact sport and Everton are no different to any other club when it comes to picking up injuries in training. What do you want the players to do? Stop training!

So there you have it, no conspiracy ? just sheer bollocks! I am left wondering what it is they do that creates this problem ? carrying their wallets maybe?
Peete Stewart, London  (21/2/07)

Wavertree Blues?

As many blues as kopites in L15? On yer bike! Come down next time Liverpool make a cup final and look at the houses kitted out. 99% red. Not sure how relevant my neighbours' literacy is - and since when did you have to spell Anfield to support the flogs that play there? No disrespect to Mr Coyne, but he's of a more advanced age than myself. Perhaps in your social circle there are as many blues as reds. Speaking for those 60 or younger, I can tell you reds overwhelm Blues by an enormnous enormous margin. Course what the fuck would I know? I only live here after all.
David Cathcart, Wavertree  (21/2/07)

Hobson's experiment

I actually took two young red fans to goodison a couple of years ago... they were singing and shouting louder than me at the end of the game. We walked down Winslow Street after the game and I had to teach them the words to "If you know your history...", "Forever Everton", and I had to tell them about "Z-cars"...

The game? Everton 1 Man Utd 0, scorer: Big Dunc... So, yes, it does work ? I recommend every true blue tries it.
Arthur Jones, Merseyside  (21/2/07)

Luq Yussef And His History Lesson

I think you missed my point, Luq, regarding history and the appeal of a football club to floating fans. Floating fans, Glory hunters, Bandwagon merchants or whatever they are will always attach themselves to a club that consistently wins things. Unfortunatley, we are not consistent winners of trophies and Liverpool are. That,s why Anfield is full of Norweigans, Cockneys, Brummies, Japanese, Irishmen and a whole assortment of spectators from all corners of the earth at every home game and Goodison is not.

Try getting a hotel room in Liverpool city center when they are at home. It's impossible. Somehow, I doubt very much if Nottingham Forest are being swamped with ticket demands and hotel rooms on such a scale.

As much as I can't stand Liverpool, they will always have a bigger fan base than us until we start winning trophies again and that's a fact. As far as I am concerned I don't care about what Everton did a 100 years ago ? it's what we are doing now that matters ? and that is not very much these days.

Oh by the way, Luq, if Notts Forest are as big as Liverpool then we might as well say that Everton are as big as Man Utd. Good idea, that, mate, don't you think?
Tony Marsh, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Hobson's or Bill's Choice

Thanks for your comments, Peter and I agree that my article is only relevant under the current regime, but as you say 'our custodian' is incapable or unwilling to bring in major investors to the club.

Paul Gregg, a businessman, was made out to be the bad guy when he challenged Kenwright's cronies to open the door to new investors with 'he wasn't a fan, didn't even go to the game' comments used to substantiate the image, whereas Mr Earl will jet over every week for the game so it's OK. I personally hoped Kenwright would be ousted but with only three board members, unlikely.

Kenwright maintained his position at the club with the promise of finance from, lest we forget, the elusive Fortress Sports Fund. The man appears to be terrified of even having the possibility of other board members joining forces to out-vote him and while this continues our club will always be facing a financial struggle and handing out the begging bowl in an attempt to keep up with other clubs.

Does anybody honestly believe that investors are more interested in throwing money at clubs like Portsmouth with a tiny fan base and no real marketing potential than Everton? That nobody outside the club believed making up the shortfall on the £30M needed to relocate to probably the best multi-functional stadium in Europe, King's Dock, was not a good investment?

Unfortunately we've got Bill and we are unlikely to change that before our new home is decided.
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Respecting views

I'm a bit disappointed with the prominence that You have given to Mark Denigrands response to Ian MacDonald's fan comment. Ian has addressed a lot of serious issues in a considered, adult manner. You don't have to agree with his viewpoint, but, dismissing it out of hand as a 'load of shit' isn't contributing much to a meaningful dialogue on the matter, and isn't affording Ian Macdonald the respect that he deserves.
Richard Marland, Liverpol  (21/2/07)

King's Dock

I found myself agreeing with Tony Marsh when he said that Liverpool City Council gave us every chance of the getting the finest location for a football ground in the world. When Freeserve asked me what broadband name I wanted to go in my e.mail address, I smugly proffered ?kingsdock? thinking I would be head of the queue and by the time the new stadium was gracing the capital of culture, new broadband customers would only be able to get ?kingsdock4123? That sort of sums up my relationship with Everton, promise a lot and rarely come up with the goods. Now I am stuck with a daft e.mail address and a bad taste in my mouth.

New stadium? I will believe it when the smoke clears and Bill shows us the keys!
Neil Alecock, Huyton  (21/2/07)

Lee Carsley

Sorry but I'm sick of reading articles regarding Lee Carsley and how he turned down 'the advances' of Wolves to stay a Blue in the summer because he thinks he owes us. It's not like he turned down one of the top four clubs to stay but a mid-table Championship team with no real chance of promotion. Maybe Wolves felt his policy of no forward passing and constant Row-Z shots on goal would be better suited to Championship football!!!
Paul Tinsley, Aintree  (21/2/07)

12 cup ties!

I see David Moyes is quoted in this morning's Independent stating that we need to treat the remaining 12 games as cup ties. Given our record in the cups under his tenure I would suggest this is the last thing we need to do!!
Dave Jeanrenaud, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Its only a name!

Message for Peter Laing: don't get hung up on Finch Farm, the Ordanence Survey map for the area shows it as an actual farm, hence the name.

On another subject, driving through the village where I live, the local pub is advertising the Everton v Spurs game live on TV. Clearly, this is another example of the 'dodgy' satellite operators expanding their network ? am I right in thinking this practice is illegal?

I wonder how many Evertonians who live local and thought of going to the game might think mmmm, do I spend upwards of £45.00 on match ticket, petrol, parking and food or do I settle for a night in the pub?

This new development won't really affect teams like our lovely neighbors, but it certainly would affect a team like Everton.
Steve Hogan, Chester  (21/2/07)

Kirkby

In an ideal world, I would like our new ground to be somewhere near the city centre but that looks more and more like it just isn't going to happen. So, IF we do go to Kirkby, I would still support the club, and would still go the match. BUT I just hope that it would not be half a job done as cheaply as possible and as Tesco say it should be. If we go there we need a world-class stadium (also the best in the North West), excellent facilities and cheaper ticket prices so we can fill the thing and get an atmosphere there.

The biggest disaster won't be moving, but if we only create something that is only 'good enough'. If we go, we need something very special to be proud of.
John Fowler, Maghull  (21/2/07)

Come on, Eileen!!??

Car parks? Don't you think LFC have considered this also, they require far more car park space than us. Don't you think it is a great opportunity to pool resources on this one issue... two big grounds so close together, why not a few little satelite car parks, multi-storey jobs that might also benefit shoppers on for instance County Road etc. There could also be underground provision at both new stadia.

Or you could go mad and actually get the train from Runcorn.... jump onto the Northern line, and soccer bus it.... a great little system. By the way, if I wanted to get to South Liverpool fast after the game, I wouldn't park on the Queens Drive side of the ground... Westmister road area is much more convenient and quicker to get away from, but I'm sure you already knew that. Try it tonight, while me and a few other Evertonians are stuck on this ship!!
Tom Hughes, North sea.....still  (21/2/07)

Hobson's Choice

Some sensible and reasoned observations from Steve Mc Bride in his recent post. I would agree entirely with his perspective, it is worth consideration though that our local neighbours were in debt to the tune of £80M and a stadium proposal that hinged on the sourcing of a major revenue stream from new owners. The brief for Rick Parry on the specific orders of David Moores was to find a wealthy investor regardless of Club loyalty, previous support or any other factor that would agree in principle to key and non-negotiable issues:

• The debt would be underwritten
• The finance would be available for the construction of a new stadium
• The shared stadium proposal would be ruled out

Mr Moores obviously played hard-ball to ensure that his requirements were met and his business dealings throughout the takeover where impeccable. What to me is crystal clear is that the Kirkby proposal for Everton is undoubtedly the only option given the current ownership of the Club. If Evertonians are intent on staying within the city of Liverpool then a new owner needs to be sought and Bill Kenwright needs to give up the reigns.

However we know that Kenwright has no intentions whatsover of relinquishing control, the Kirkby project fulfils his brief perfectly. The major benefactors of the move will be:

• Tesco / Sir Terry Leahy (allegedly advisor to the Club);
• Keith Wyness who will gain from the sourcing of retail and etertainment partners;
• Robert Earl who will create entertainment, leisure and shopping amenities; and
• Everton with the construction of an out of town pre-fab stadium.

I am not against progress and moving the Club forward. I understand that Goodison is delapidated and unlikely to be redeveloped. It is though with fear and trepidation that I see our long-term future with the man who is running the Club and a step into the uknown that we are likely to take.

A contributor from the US recently commented that out-of-town stadium developments were the vogue during the 1960s and 1970s in the States, now proven to be white elephants with more downtown developments now seen as the way forward and the future. Juventus are a European example of how their stadium planners got it badly wrong.

To sum up my feelings, the proposal of a stadium at Kirkby can be compared to the decant of residents from inner city Liverpool to newtowns such as Skelmersdale and Kirkby during the 1960s ? have these places (with due respect to their residents) been a huge success?
Peter Laing, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

Moyes on Toffeeweb?

David Moyes today said he wants the club to go on a run and qualify for the Uefa Cup. This is a change of pace for him isn't it? He's been on this site methinks...
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (21/2/07)

Are we that bothered?

I know as well as all of you fellow Bluenoses that moving away from Goodison will break our hearts. It's our home, it's seen some great sides and some pretty awful sides.

The fact is we have to move away from the grand old lady to progress and keep up with the likes of Spurs and Newcastle, let alone the "Big Four". The only thing that concerns me is that we don't fill our 40,000 stadium at the moment, so if we move to a bigger and better one will the ave attendance really rise that much?

Will we really make more cash our of it? St James Park and White Heart Lane are prime examples of what can be done to existing grounds. Ask yourself this though, do you want to live in the shadow of those gobshites from accros the park, in their state-of-the-art massvie ground?

I am all for a move away to a nice new place for our nice young new side to floriush into a great side and our great club will be back where it belongs. None of the moaners will be moaning if we start winning even a League Cup or an FA Cup and getting into Europe on a regular basis. With our shiny new stadium, players will want to play for us in front of the most loyal and electric fans in the world.

Stand by the club whereever we play. Goodison is a part of us which I will never ever forget and a few tears will be shed when she stages her last game, but it's inveitable: we can't live in the past anymore. WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.

So I pose this question to you all: if a move away from goodison brings the success we all are craving, are we really that bothered?
Michael Cummins, West Sussex  (21/02/07)

Hmmmmm

After reading Tony Marsh's letter I have to disagree with one point - that Liverpool have a better history than Everton.

I will not go into the semantics of it all but Liverpool history only really started in the seventies onwards. Everton pedigree expands from the spawn of our existence in relation to winning trophies and fielding some of the world's greatest players. So please, Tony, stop making Liverpool to be this colossus of the game when Nottingham Forest have as much right to claim that stature!

Full steam ahead, Kirkby! It worked for Wimbledon relocating, didn't it?
Luq Yussef, London  (21/2/07)

Sheffield United

Just wondering if anyone has a spare ticket for the Sheffield United away game? They never made it to general sale and I am in Sheffied that day, I am being forced to go see Amy Winehouse and was hoping to counteract that and missing my game of football by going to see some proper football.

e.mail: daniel.ford@yahoo.co.uk
Daniel Ford, Newcastle Upon Tyne  (21/2/07)

Re: Car Parking

Its simple, if we redevelop GP, the car park would be the same one the Kopites will build on Stanley Park. As police always force us to play home games on different days, therefore a 'shared' car park would always be free.
Brian Baker, Aldershot  (21/2/07)

Car Parking

What is Eillen Roberts talking about regarding car parking and redeveloping Goodison? It may of escaped her attention but all of the added facilities in terms of transport/car parking that are going to be improved when Liverpool move into their new stadium will actually be available to Evertonians going to Goodison!! Given the close proximity of the new Liverpool Stadium, the transport infrastructure, car parking and dispersal rates will actually improve.
John Crawley, Liverpool  (21/2/07)

In their face

In honour of the greatest footballer ever to pull on a pair of boots, name the academy Dixieland and at the same time get right up the nose of dem y?all northern Yankees.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (21/2/07)

Southern Kopites?

Mr Cathcart, You should try to get out more; at least travel further than the end of Dunstan Street or walk further than your local. Your next door neighbours either side may well be Kopites; how many of the 97% can spell "Anfield"? Perhaps one or two even know the name of the manager before Shankly.

South End is blue, always has been; or is L15 now inner Suburbia, like Lark Lane and Mather Avenue?
Phil Bellis, L8  (21/2/07)

re David Cathcart

I don't think Mr Caathcart gets out much... Up to leaving Wavertree three years ago ? and having spent over 50 years there ? I can assure you that there are just as many Evertonions as Liverpool roughnecks ? in fact, I'd say more... perhaps not as vocal in the pubs but they are there.
Roy Coyne, Old Swan  (20/2/07)

Cliff Finch Farm

With the welcome news that the training complex and academy are on schedule, to budget and due for completion by the start of pre-season preparations, I was wondering if this ghastly name will be how it will be commonly known.

I'm sure that this name is the area of land in Halewood were the development is being constructed, it does however bring back bad memories of Peter Johnson's side-kick, Clifford Finch. It may in fact be a retirement home for failed previous Everton administrators such as Finch, Dunford, Birch and possibly Wyness in the future.

On a serious point, a name is the least important factor of what will hopefully be a promising venture for Everton; my money, though, is that it should be named the 'School of Science'! Possibly a lighthearted poll for ToffeeWeb, or hawked off as a naming rights ? the Tesco Youth Opportunity Scheme?
Peter Laing, Liverpool  (20/2/07)

Car Parking?

Any redevelopment of Goodison needs to take account of car parking for about 2000 cars. I consider this an important factor, especially if somebody is professing to know how all Everton's needs can be met in terms of a new stadium within the existing footprint (Tom Hughes).

The existing car park is not going to be available when the New Anfield is built so, even if the existing footprint of Goodison Park could provide 55,000 seats and everything else the club needs, where are the cars going to be parked?

Let's have have Tom answer the question ? if he can, I will be very happy indeed!

ps: With reference to many other posts... no, Kikby is not in Liverpool... but Kirkby is totally occupied by Scousers. It is just somewhere else that, like Halewood, Skelmersdale, Runcorn, Bootle, etc that Liverpool people live.
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (20/2/07)

City Limits

Its about time we all face facts regarding the ground move out of the city. We are going and that's that.

We never get told the truth by this Board of ours so when they say no decision has yet been made about moving to Kirkby, you can rest assured we are going there. A couple more things we need to get straight as well: Goodison Park will not be getting redeveloped. Theres more chance us getting £6.5M back on James Beattie than Goodison being rebuilt. The idea that we can use Anfield while we do it is even more ridicolous.

Moving to Kirkby will not affect us in any way where the floating supporter is concerned. They will always choose Liverpool FC before us. Let's face it we dont get many now, and we are right slap bang in the city, so going down the East Lancs won't matter in that respect. Like it or not Liverpool;s history and there chances of winning trophies make far greater appeal than ours, so live with it.

Financially, Kirkby is our only option at present and all these people saying the council should find us a site... get real, will you. Liverpool City Council offered Everton FC the finest spot for a football ground anywhere in the world: The Kings Dock. What happened? Kenwright fucked it up so let's not blame the council, for fucks sake.

The revenue stream coming into the club from the corporate side of things will be vastly superior to anything we can hope to achieve at Goodison once we move. At present we have 12 matchday boxes at Goodison in the main stand. £44,000 a season is the cost and we don't have enough to satisfy the demand. There is a waiting list of about 10 at the moment and no more names are being taken because there is no point. The boxes are booked up for the foreseeable future and none will be available any time soon.

According to Harvey Smith, who told me after the Blackburn game, we could sell maybe 30 more if we had them, no problem. Let's say we had 50 boxes at the new ground costing £50k a year all at full capacity. Do the maths your self. An extra new player every season or a huge chunk of the wage bill taken care of. We are missing out on this kind of opportunity because of the poor facilities at Goodison and no one can argue any different.

I don't want to leave our central location but, as a post said previously, we would always be in the shadow of the Yankee Stadium if we stay where we are. Like a tramp in a cardboard box sleeping in the doorway of the Ritz is how I see it being for us. To be honest, there's not a great deal any of us can do about it so I will just sit back and see what debvelops.

I have decided that getting to Europe is a must for us this season. I need some new blags to explain all my trips away and what better than watching the Blues abroad. So beating Spurs tomorrow is now of the utmost importance. Come On You Blues.
Tony Marsh, Liverpool  (20/2/07)

Tesco's!

For all those of you thinking that this Tesco deal may be transferable, and why don't Tesco just build one, say "over there instead"? Or maybe "my next door neighbour has a spare garage in the City they can use", the simple answer is, that Tesco will have spent a fortune working out where the best locations are for their new stores. They probably had a few worked out, and then one person had the brainstorm that maybe Everton would be interested in a new stadium. And quite plausibly with that in mind they looked again, picked Kirkby and then went to talk to Billy Boy...

Everton FC are not the dominant partner in this deal; if we want a Stadium paid for with quite a bit of Tesco money, we go where they say. So, if you don't like the idea of moving to Kirkby, you are going to have to start figuring who is going to pay for this new stadium in the South of the City or whereever else, because there are two big factors in those moves: Tesco ain't going to pay for it, and sure as hell the club can't!
Dave Turner, Edinburgh, Scotland  (20/2/07)

It's a mystery....

Responding to a couple of views regarding the Wavertree playground and especially to Darren. Surely the parking would be around a new ground as there would be enough space on the particular plot and where the tennis centre and athletics track are ideal too.

What does it matter that 97% of his neighbours are reds? With a move to Kirkby surely that figure would be 100% with future children being brought up supporting their 'local' side!

Unfortunately the idea of Tesco looking at this plot would be a non-starter as the Tesco store on Mather Ave now looks like it's getting the go-ahead to extend, plus they already have a store nearby in Old Swan. Saying that tho, with Tesco trying to dominate the world, this could be just another step!

The funding of a new stadium lays in the hands of an outside investor as we don't have the money to build one ourselves. Whether that's Tesco remains to be seen but, whoever it is, we'll be hanging on to their coat tails with a begging bowl...
Ed Gallagher, Liverpool  (20/2/06)

Supporting Everton ? wherever they are

It might be a bit late to throw in my opinion but, as someone who has been a season ticket holder for the last 25 years (from the tender age of 12), I support Everton Football Club, and will do so wherever they play their football.

It's hard to put it into words but, for me, Everton FC is greater than the sum of its parts ? players, manager, board, supporters and yes, even the ground. It is an intangible, ethereal concept, nothing I can quite put my finger on, but which evokes feelings akin to worship ? you could say it is my religion. As a follower, I will go to worship wherever I have to ? it really is as black and white to me as that.

Naive as it might be, I had expected that everyone else who regularly goes to the match would feel the same, and would go to watch Everton wherever they played ? but it seems from the letters on here that I am in the minority. Surely, when push comes to shove, loyalty to Everton FC comes first? Would those who oppose a move to Kirkby really stay away (and listen on a radio or watch Scandinavian satellite TV in a pub)??
Bob Turner, Runcorn  (20/2/07)

Finch Farm

Just wondering about where the money has come from to build Finch Farm? The simple answer of course is that the money from the sale of Bellefield should have paid for it. Thing is though, it doesn't exactly fit in with our "robbing Peter to pay Paul" routine.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (20/2/07)

Move To Wavertree?

I'm from L15, Dunstan street. All of three minutes to the Mystery {okay, okay - Wavertree Playground}. Even if we did have the money I can see a few problems:

• One, my neighbours are 97% Liverpool fans.
• Two, ample parking...? Which Wavertree is this???
• Three, my neighbours are all Kopites.

Seriously, Wavertree is overwherlmingly LFC supporters. They want an Everton stadium here like I want a Coca-Cola enema. Kirkby makes a lot more sense... which is saying something.
David Cathcart, Liverpool  (20/2/07)

Michael Johnson's Calendar

I've the same calendar as Michael and it may interest you to know that August is actually a montage of Ronaldihno, Eto'o, Messi, Cannavaro, Buffon, Terry, Ronaldo and Malcom Christie - ah well can't win them all eh?
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (20/2/07)

Sell Outs

I aksed a question last week, and did not get a suitable answer. Why are we looking to increase the capacity of the new stadium to 55,000 when we can't sell out the old stadium? On the website this morning, they say there Are tickets available for Wednesday's match with Spurs. Am I missing something here? We can't sell out so let's increase the capacity of the new stadium? Is that so we can show more empty seats on television? And please no snide answers this time. A real response would be appreciated.
Roger Domal, NYC, NY, USA  (20/2/07)

Car Share

I'm a season ticket holder living in Leeds. I travel to all games by car. Wondered if there's any Blues out there in Leeds who fancy sharing the travelling and a pint or two? Cheers.

e-mail: craig.heywood@sbs.nhs.uk
Craig Heywood, Leeds  (20/2/07)

Dixie Dean

In response to both Harry Meek and Alan Burrows, Dixie Dean would have been honoured with the greatest Merseysider had we been playing in North Wales! If you know your history fella's! Not bad for a lad from Birkenhead!!!
Charlie Gofton, Liverpool  (20/2/07)

Bellefield

Colm mentions Wyness said that, "when the time is right", the club would tell us who the buyer was. Put your money on it, that when we do move to kirkby, the club tells us it was Tesco who bought Bellefield.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (20/2/07)

Questions

When Everton announced that Bellefield was being abandoned for a far better training facility, did anybody kick up a fuss about it being a part of our history?

When Everton announced that the new training HQ would be located on a site in Halewood, did anybody moan that this was 'outside the City'?

Just a thought.
Lee Spargo, Wallasey  (20/2/07)

Bjarni coming home?

What is the current status of Bjarni Vidarsson? Two of our newspapers ? Sport is and Morganbladad ? carry stories of his impending release by Everton and keen competition from teams here to sign him. I had understood that he was doing well.
Egil Arnarsson, Reykjanes  (20/2/07)

Re: I Kid You Not

In responce to Mark Joseph's post, just have a look at this link, I think its safe to say we're in safe hands with Howard.
Mike Wilson, West Lancs  (20/2/07)

Building plot

Just a thought: would Bellefield be big enough for a new stadium? It always appeared big when I ran past it on my way to St Edwards or is my memory playing tricks. We at least own it or has that been sold off with the rest of the family silver?
George Carroll, Bramhall  (20/2/07)

Pedantry Rules

At the risk of being labelled a pedant, the honour for William Ralph was part of the Spirit of LIVERPOOL series. I am reliably informed that it applied only to people who had done great things for the CITY. `Kirkby`s Finest` doesn`t quite have the same ring to it, does it?
Alan Burrows, Wavertree  (20/2/07)

Magic calendar

I'm a bit late with this as its taken me a while to get off my arse and write but I've got some good news!

I was flicking through my Everton calendar the other week. Tim Howard was 'January' and had recently signed up. February was Nuno Valente.

It struck me in a flash that my calendar was correctly predicting the players who would extend their contracts at the Blues! Well, you can imagine my excitement as I slowly turned the page to find out who was the next player to pledge allegiance. Slowly, slowly, I turned the page (secretly hoping it wasn't Gary Naysmith), the anticipation killing me....

.... great news! It was none other than Mr Mikel Arteta!!!!

You heard it here first, folks. My calendar has got to be as least as reliable as Tony Marsh's mate's dog's groomer who knows someone who knows someone who delivers the Echo ? don't you think?

So there you have it! Mikel Arteta is going to be here next year after all. I haven't dared check the other pages yet and it really would be a magic calendar if Dave Nugent was August but you never know.

Ok, I'm being silly to lighten the mood a bit. (If this is how miserable we all are when we talk about going to Kirkby, imagine how gloomy we'll all be when we actually really go there.)

Personally I can see the direction the wind is blowing and I reckon Arteta will be off to Spain in the summer. I, for one, won't begrudge him one bit. Who can blame a lad for wanting to return home and put himself in the 'shop window' for selection for his country? If I were playing for a small, provincial club in Spain (and that must be what we look like to the Spaniards, let's face it) and Everton, Tottenham or Newcastle came in to sign us virtually guaranteeing us we'd finally break into the England team, I'm sure we'd jump at the chance.

Mikel, hope you stay mate cos you're a credit to the Blue shirt but good luck to you if you go. Don't leave like Rooney did but do bring us in a stack of cash!!
Michael Johnson, London  (20/2/07)

Norwegian Blue

Until the unknowns about Kirkby become known, the matter has run its course and from being an interesting topic it is now deader than the afformentioned parrot.

Rumsfeld said, ?We know there are unknowns, there are things that we know are unknowns, there are things that we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns, that is to say, there are things we do not know. Also there are known unknowns and others we don?t know we don?t know.? Those pearls of wisdom could be describing much of our stadium debate or, is the whole shemozzle driving me round the twist.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (20/2/07)

Re;Shopping around

Regarding my suggestion of Wavertree playground, maybe Tesco could invest their money here. With local opposition to extend Tesco's on Mather Avenue occuring over several years, they could possibly look elsewhere... Who knows?!
Paul Henshaw, Liverpool  (19/2/07)

Inside or Outside

For all the talk about whether we should be inside or outside the city, I noticed that most of the posters themselves do NOT live in Liverpool. Maybe like myself (I am at Uni in Lancaster) they were born there or have other family ties. But the point is we still have a large fanbase outside of the city that wouldn't change where we played would it?

Unfourtunately, if we do move to Kirkby, although it is still part of Merseyside, we would lose a large number of fans to the American Brawlers. The point is, like a lot of teams now, fans and support comes from success, (Man Utd and the Liverpool show this) if after the move we begin to become successful again people will continue to see us, regardless of where they live. After all, 5 miles is not the end of the world, we are not the MK Dons and I have only ever known the derby to be known as the Merseyside derby, not the Liverpool derby, which will still be true won't it?
Gareth Price, Lancaster  (19/2/07)

What's in a name

Manchester United, Manchester City, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Nottingham Forest, Notts County, Glasgow Rangers, Glasgow Celtic. Everton, Liverpool - spot the difference?

Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Inter Milan all contain the names of the cities that they hail from. Ok, so there's Benfica, Ajax (of Amsterdam), Juventus and a few others that buck the trend - but they are the dominant teams in their cities and, European status-wise, we're not up with them yet... are we?

Arsenal, Tottnham, Chelsea - all immediately identifiable as London teams and yet there is no team in the capital with London in their name.

What am I saying? That identity is important if you are to cream off the kudos, celebrity, prestige, fame (and sponsorship?) that go hand in hand with being associated with famours cities. It's would be a further diminution of our already fragile identity that I fear most by moving outsdie the city boundary.

It's all very well saying that, when it comes to support, it's a question of "like father, like son" and that the status quo continues in perpetuity. That's too simplistic. The fact is that a failing out-of-town team will always suffer when there's a dominant team within the city limits. If we move outside the city boundaries, we'd better have a successful team on the pitch before we go!
Ray Robinson, Warrington  (19/2/07)

Summer moves

I took the opportunity to watch Nugent in action against Premiership opposition and I thought he was impressive. He certainly has a predatory instinct and looks very comfortable on the ball. Physically strong, he gave Richards something to think about. Above all, his work rate was very good; he is every inch a Moyes-type player. Let's hope the club pursue their long-rumored interest in the player ? he would be a real asset.

A word too on the recent loan-capture of Fernandes. He looks a really good prospect ? I was impressed by his willingness to listen to the advice of his teammates and he kept things simple with the odd trick. He certainly brings added strength to the midfield with his composure and ball distribution. Let's hope we can afford to secure the signings of these two young players who may be unproven but, on the face it, appear to have bags of potential.
Gerry Western, London  (19/2/07)

Does it Actually Matter?

Jim, out of all the articles I have read regarding the new ground, this is by far the best. Your point about supporting the blues cos of your family is spot on! There is far more danger of us loosing support because of mediocrity than having a top-class stadium in a part of Liverpool that's run by another council.

A new ground doesn?t guarantee success but at least if gives us some hope. What's worse, having a top stadium only 4 miles away from GP or having to look up at their towering new stadium every home match ? thats when they will really be laughing at us. Let's not let a minority with their heads stuck firmly in the sand hold the club back, Kirkby may not be ideal but it certainly is the best on offer!
Charlie Skinley, Liverpool  (19/2/07)

Test of Faith

Having spent absolute fortunes on nursing Pistone and Van der Meyde back to relative fitness, I guess Moyes will want to hold onto them both. If he is to sign Fernandes to a permanent contract, I can`t see him having a lot more to spend on recruits, which is good news for the aforementioned as well as Wright, Beattie, Stubbs and Carsley.
Neil Rudkin, Widnes  (19/2/07)

Ground Move Angst

The club seem intent on moving to a new stadium somewhere, sometime but only if it is in the best interest of the club and after a fans' consultation vote. If this all comes about, I got to thinking on how it might impact on me...

As things stand, I love my version of a matchday experience, the pre-match pint in the same pub with the many matchday friends I have made over many years, where we pick the team, sort out the tactics, forecast the score and first goalscorer. Then the walk up to the ground with all its buzz and talking to a total stranger as though you had known them for years. Making sure you're in your seat for Z-Cars and waiting for the rollercoaster ride that is Everton, where the next 90-odd minutes will determine my mood for the weekend.

Then back to the pub to meet up again with my matchday mates, who have watched the game from all four sides of the ground, for the post match inquest ? and I can tell all of you Blues who can't get to games that the views expressed are as diverse as this mailbag. We either agree to agree or disagree but all determine to do it all again next match.

A change from all of this will be hard, as change always is, so how will I deal with it?. I have determined to wait until a stadium materialises then see if it will have a negative impact on my ability to meet up with all the mates pre- and post-game.

Just driving to a car park and walking into a stadium is too much like going to many an away game so, when the time comes, I will take into consideration what works for me on matchdays and, if favourable ,I will renew my ticket. If not, I will invest in a dish and retire to the armchair. See you Wed. --- UP THE BLUES
Ken Buckley, Buckley  (19/2/07)

Tim Howard

Tim Howard will not be eligible to play against Manchester United. I e.mailed Sharpy on the Everton OS and he sent back: "Tim will not be eligible to play against United."

Ah well, I think with 'you know who' in goal, even Van der Sar will be having shots!
Mark Parsons, Liverpool  (19/2/07)

The City's Finest

In response to Harry Meek, William Ralph Dean probably WOULD have been voted as 'Merseyside's Greatest Sporting Star', as he has been ? NOT Liverpool's greatest. A pedantic yet important distinction.
Nick Harrison, Liverpool  (19/2/07)

RE Rooney money

I know this is still doing the rounds and going around in circles but Michael, do you not think the reason we have not heard anything about the extra money is because Man United have never completed any of those things since he signed?
Gareth Price, Lancaster  (19/2/07)

Shopping around

It all seems as done as dusted as far as I can tell. The Kirkby move seems inevitable but I'm just wondering whether our club's hierachy have REALLY looked at different sites within the Liverpool boundary...

After living in South Liverpool all my life, I can think of several places where a new stadium would be a viable option. The big question is, 'Are Liverpool City Council willing to look at different ventures?' (Or do I mean Everton!)

Wavertree playground is a large area of land ideal for our new home. Situated near the end of the M62,it seems links are good for those coming from the north and south of the city. Bus links from the city centre are good with enough space around the ground for ample parking. With the athletics track, tennis centre and sports centre adjacent, this could be the hive of sporting life in Liverpool with our club as the focal point. Locally, Allerton Road, Wavertree High Street and Smithdown Rd has all the bars and pubs for those who like a tipple or two before and after the game. Plus its in the city boundary! I don't know, there's one idea. I'd rather this than Kirkby!
Paul Henshaw, Liverpool  (19/2/07)

Nugent

Everton should break the bank to secure Nugent this summer. The pace of Nugent and Johnson would put fear into any of the Premiership defences and Europe here we come.
Brian Ormond, Springfield, MO, USA  (19/2/07)

Question of Semantics?

Question. Would William Ralph Dean be honoured as `The City`s Finest` if Everton had played in Kirkby in the 1920-30s? I think not!
Harry Meek, Worcester  (19/2/07)

Van der MAD!

If I hear Andy van der Meyde say once more that his best is yet to come, I think I might go insane.

I was initially sympathetic with the Dutchman's plight and he said all of the right things regarding wanting to play and repay the fans etc. I now realise that this is a pile of crap and he has been saying this stuff for the last two years. Any time he has had the chance, he has never looked like the player we thought we were buying. Please get rid of him soon, he is annoying me now.
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (19/2/07)

Club Finances

With Chelsea announcing an £80M loss, don't you think our £8.6M loss starts to look quite good?

Bear in mind they have a billionaire sugar daddy to bail them out, whereas we don't. It is also interesting to note, they have no plans to move from Stamford Bridge, whereas we are forced to move (or expand) in order to take full advantage of our potentially much bigger support. With a huge increases in TV revenue, a likely higher position in the league and possible qualification for Europe, the fanancial future does look very rosy.
Brian Baker, Aldershot  (19/2/07)

Get Nugent

David Nugent's recent overtures regarding his desire to play for Everton and the fact that he obviously see's his immediate future in the Nortwest with the building of a home on the Wirral would hopefully mean we are in with a shout of signing him come the summer.

Regardless of whether Preston are promoted or not, surely a reasonable bid would be enough to secure Nugent's services? Both Beattie and McFadden have had enough time, patience and opportunity to prove their own worth.

The opportunity should not pass for Everton to acquire a lad with hunger, huge potential and a burning ambition to fulfil his boyhood dreams and represent the blues. Moyes has reaped the benefit before of doing his shopping in the Championship and surely Nugent would tick all the boxes in terms of his attributes.
Peter Laing, Liverpool  (19/2/07)

Not bad business

If you read the Everton.com piece carefully, you will see that the `biggest-ever` piece about the Tim Howard signing has nothing to do with the size of the tranfer fee and everything to do with the player`s wage package.

I suspect that Everton have agreed to write off the add-ons above £20M for Rooney in exchange for Neville, Howard and possibly Smith. Not bad business in my book!
Norton James, Chorley  (19/2/07)

Jim Hourigan's Post

Can I compliment Jim Hourigan for writing by far the most sensible post relating to the proposed move to Kirkby that I have read during the entire debate. Excellent post, mate.
Steve Ryan, Sydney  (19/2/07)

Bill Kenwright

Bill, I've got two things to say to you before you commit our great club to move out of the city.

• Wayne Rooney
• Kings Dock

They say bad things happen in three's ? let's hope not...

Just wish you would make contact with the Dubai people and tell them you have a thoroughbred called Everton that can go right to the top.
Colin Malone, Wirral  (19/2/07)

RE: Jim Hourigan?s comments about Everton moving

I really don?t see that Jim Hourigan has any real argument at all. Seeing a game as an unknowing child, the blind colour of money, and nameless fans ? these bland generalisations can be applied to almost anything.

We are not talking of anything, but of a team called Everton. The village of Everton is in metropolitan Liverpool; this may be inconvenient but it is the way it is. This football club must find a way of maintaining its locale. It is quite clear that EFC is being moved ?out?. This cannot be allowed to happen. If the only offer on the table is the incredibly attractive one of being close to a Tesco?s, I say screw the offer.

Can anyone tell me that people who go to the game will be enticed by the fact that they can buy a discounted head of lettuce afterwards? Get real.
John Cummings, Toronto, Ontario  (19/2/07)

I Kid You Not

I read an earlier post, and Michael's reply, about the Tim Howard signing. It said that 99% of Evertonians are happy with the signing. I am a 99 percenter too!

But... I work with a couple of Mancs, one being a season-ticket holder, and he says the Mancs have been trying to offload Tim Howard for two seasons because of his Tourettes and the fact that it was costing them games.

Now, I don't want to get into any politically incorrect nonsense here but they were saying that on shots from 20/30 yds he was having problems because of the constant "blinking" that comes with the Tourettes, and that having focused on the ball, he will then lose sight of it as it gets closer to him.

On the other hand, they say, he is a fantastic shot stopper up close. I have not got a clue what the stats say about this but Chelsea at home does spring to mind!

Don't get me wrong here, I do welcome the signing, but it may be worth keeping a close watch for the remainder of the season.
Mark Joseph, West Lancs  (19/2/07)

Rationalisations

I'm 21, and the only success I have celebrated as a Toffee is winning the FA Cup in 1995. Mind you, that's more than I could celebrate as a fan of one of the other "mediocre" teams of England. However, that success is tied in with Goodison Park. I know that Goodison has a lot of great memories and emotional ties for many Evertonians, but Wembley had all of these for England fans and we, as a club, have spent more time umming and ahhing about a new stadium than the FA.

One of the major arguments against moving is the stick we will take from our red-hearted counterparts. But this wouldn't be the first time Everton had "moved House". After all, didn't we build Anfield? Even Liverpool fans cannot overlook this fact. Would that not mean that we could counter any stick with words like "hypocrite"?

We are already building a new training complex ? but not many people are up in arms over the loss of Bellefield (maybe this isn't as important). Take a look at the Big Four, not from an Evertonian point of view, but from a football point of view. They all have massive stadiums, state-of-the-art training facilities and extreme financial savvy. We posess none of these. However, I do believe that the Board actually has the club's future in mind.

If we move, I don't expect that we will be able to solidly compete with the Big Four as there are many more factors involved; but I do think it would be a step in the right direction. Goodison Park is tied down to being part of "the good old days", which is all well and good, but these days were now so long ago that they will remain there ? Goodison is becoming nothing more than a tomb for our undying dedication to feeling sorry for ouselves.

Without a new stadium, we will continue to compare our current side with those great sides of old, and this is counter-productive. A new stadium means a new start. I don't think we should compare the side to a scrapper like Rocky Balboa. Instead we should be striving to become a destroyer, like Ivan Drago (and if people say "Well, he lost" they may be missing the point).
Paul Newsham, Barrow-in-Furness  (18/2/07)

Kallstrom

I saw the link today and I had to giggle at the valuation. It sounds daft, but in Championship Manager 02 you could buy Kallstrom for about £300k. You could see from the games rating he had potential. There was another fella you could get called Ibrahimovic for around the same price from some small swedish club. In fact they were both bought for my Everton team and went on to be superstars.

In the Championship Manager series, a lot of research was done to complile a world database of players with honest ratings. So maybe there is some argument for Moyes to have a go on the old Championship Manager and dispatch his scouts accordingly before other clubs make their move!
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (19/2/07)

Look Luq!

I was just interested to see the comments on the Rooney deal. I'm sure money won't actually change hands in relation to Howard, Neville etc but it's very clear what was originally agreed. When you look at it, we all need to get behind Man Utd and cheer them on in the cups and the league!

Everton got £10 million immediatley (Aug 2004) a further £10 million was paid a year later (Aug 2005). A further £4 million is performance-based and to be paid, depend on what is achieved during Rooney's initial 6-year contract period (through Aug 2010).

• £1M if United win the Champions League
• £500k if United are runners-up in the Champions League
• £500k if United win the Premiership
• £250k if United finish second in the Premiership
• £150k if United win the FA Cup
• £500k if Rooney earns 20 England caps in competitive games while a United player
• £500k if Rooney plays a further 20 times for England in competitive games while a United player

Even if none of those things happen in the next five years, Everton will receive at least an extra £3M, paid in £1M instalments on 1 August 2006 and the same date in 2007 and 2008.

Everton also negotiated a 25% 'sell-on' agreement, under which we would receive a quarter of any excess sum over all amounts paid in this agreement.
Chris Marsh, Prescot  (18/2/07)

So that's why

Cheers for the answer but this kinda proves my point. We are going to have a very nice half-empty stadium by the sounds of it.

I think people tend to forget that the demand for corporate boxes is subject to the same forces as normal seats. In fact, I think the demand is even more dependent on having a winning team on the pitch than bog standard seats. With corporate hospitality, it's all about kudos and there is very little to be gained at present by saying I've just been given free tickets for Goodison or 'let me invite you to a day out at Goodison where we can discuss business'.

Most non-diehard Blues will still say "Thanks, maybe some other time". Call me pessimistic but I don't want to see us get into even more debt, and loose our only real profit-making asset (the fans) for the sake of a few extra corporate boxes.
Iain McWilliam, Reading  (18/2/07)

Smith, as payment in full

I was a corporate guest at Old Trafford yesterday for the Man Utd v Reading game and took the opportunity to discuss the Neville and Howard signings with our club host who had playing connections with both United and Everton. From what he said, the Rooney fee still has one more installment to go and may very well take the form of the transfer to Goodison of Alan Smith. Apparently there are still some medical doubts about the player`s recovery but watch for news as soon as the season ends...
Tony Maeers, Burscough  (18/2/07)

How many Hugheses?

I answer to Glen Anderson and his praise of the new academy, how many Mark Hugheses will we have to sell at £60,000 apiece to pay for the bloody thing? Moyes has said publically that he has little or no belief in the concept, preferring to shop in the lower leagues. And as for Bjarni and Kissock, I have no doubt they`ll be plying their trade in Football League any time soon ? alongside Victor and Vaughany!
Malcolm Senter, Neston  (18/2/07)

Why?

I'm getting nearly as bored reading this debate on whether we should move as I am watching the team play to be honest, so can someone tell me why we need to move?

Is Goodison about to fall into an ancient druid burial ground? Or is it because the Board believe 100% that we will definitely make more money from the move regardless of any debt incurred for building the new one? If it's the latter, I think they are in for a shock as the only thing that guarantees a full house is winning matches on a consistently semi-attractive basis.
Iain McWilliam, Reading  (18/2/07)

Rooney Money

Just read Luq's message on the Rooney transfer money and the Howard signing. I think that, because of the sums of money involved at the time, many fans (myself included) thought there was going to be a windfall of cash that would be the solution to all our problems. With hindsight, perhaps we were a little naïve to think that we would get all that money in one or two lump sums. After all, we're not exactly Real Madrid when it comes to the transfer market and aren't used to dealing with such sums on a transfer.

And yes, given the depth of feeling within the fanbase around the transfer, the club should be a lot more transparent with what they have done with the money they have received to date. But to say that the money is somehow being swindled out of the club's coffers does seem excessive.

The most simple answer is often the most obvious one. Instead of handing over cash that it hasn't got, especially given the whole Glazier takeover, Utd has instead transferred players to us that we have been interested in.

We have received Phil Neville, who in my view only left Utd because of first-team football. He is a very good utility player and has given both clubs great service. Tim Howard is one of the most highly-rated 'keepers in the Premiership right now, with eight to ten good years ahead of him. It is that simple. Yes, we may have paid over the odds but both players would have any amount of excellent offers from other clubs and the Rooney money and transfer has allowed us to get in there first. (I think this also shows that neither player are cast-offs.)

And when you think about it, does it not look a little like Utd paid over the odds for Rooney themselves? Highly gifted but still only a teenager at the time. Can you imagine the bidding war that would have erupted if we had hung on to him for the full season that we sold him in? Utd, like us with Howard, just got in there first and did what they thought had to be done to secure his services ahead of the rest.

In my mind, neither club has screwed the other; it has just been shrewd business all round.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (18/2/07)

Ground move

it is pointless fans goung on about this piece of land and that piece of land is available. The reason we have got into bed with Tesco is because we are fucking skint! The way things are, in my opinion, Tesco will dictate everything and Kenwright will go along with it.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (18/2/07)

Repeat yourself

How many times do people need to be told the same thing...? KIRKBY IS NOT PART OF LIVERPOOL. It's not exactly far away but its not part of Liverpool. Does coming from there make you a true scouser or not??? Jesus, wasn't the original question about a football team getting a new ground? How did people end up in a debate qualifying their interpretation of a meaningless, unofficial and ambiguous definition of Liverpudlians?

"Should we move to Kirkby?" is the question then. Personally, I think not. Part of me feels that a football club ? a great football club ? should own the park it calls home, not just rent it from a faceless corporation. But then couldn't that be a description of the club itself? Of all top flight football clubs?

Whatever's best for Billy K is what will end up happening anyway. The true long-term progression of Everton Football Club ? as well as the wishes of the supporters ? will hardly come into it.
David Catton, Liverpool  (18/2/07)

Kirkby or not to be

I'm glad that Tom Hughes and I appear to be able to agree on one thing ? that we go with Tesco or we don't go anywhere, at least for the foreseeable future, by which time we could become the latterday Accrington Stanley.

The reason it is Tesco or nowhere is that WE DO NOT HAVE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO HOPE TO CHOOSE WHERE WE SITE A NEW STADIUM. SO SPECULATION ABOUT BROWNFIELD SITES HERE THERE AND EVERYWHERE IS IRRELEVANT. IF TESCO DON'T WANT TO GO ? WE DON'T. END OF STORY.

If I woke up in the morning to hear that Abramovich had passed away peacefully in his sleep and that he had left me his billion,the money I would give Everton to build a new Stadium would be on the proviso that it would be built on the playing fields in Walton Hall Avenue; t would not have a supermarket attached to it and the architect would be given design criteria that would make the New Goodison reminiscent of the old. Even to the point of a facsimile church tower in one corner! The Council couldn't resist it on the grounds of taking up public parkland because they've already set the precedent. How's that? And I would be rich and powerful enough to insist...

But that is just a dream. The real world beckons and the fact is that, even if redeveloping Goodison was possible, I doubt we could even afford to do it. This brings me to my other point. In Tom's penultimate paragraph ,unless I misunderstood, he suggests he has conducted a feasability study on redeveloping Goodison. If that is the case, I would be very interested in seeing the results and how he is confident that a 55,000 seater stadium,with all the essential facilities and corporate amenities required could be built on the existing footprint. Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (18/2/07)

Get Nugent

I've watched Nugent for three years now, as that's how long Everton have been linked with the lad. His movement is phenomenal, he's left- and right-footed, he's good in the air, he's qucik, he can run at players, he's also a finisher, he works his socks of, and he's been consistently scoring for three years.

More importantly, as we've all read, he's an Evertonian and wants to play for the club in the Premiership if PNE don't go up this year. It's imperative that we don't let this player get away, he's 21 ? and as shown by his goalmouth poaching vs Man City in the Cup, he can do the job in a direct and unflapping manner.

Johnson & Nugent up front for the Blues next season? With Vaughan & Anichebe as back up. Beattie's time is up.
Ray Mia, London  (18/2/07)

New Academy Name

I think Louis Platt's raised an excellent point about the "School of Science" moniker and it would really make sense to apply that name to any youth training scheme run by our great club. All of the other big clubs have already or currently are investing substantial resources in building their academies and I am pleased that Everton has seen sense and is near completing our own.

I love to see talented footballers break into the first team and do well so giving the academy a name which is descriptive of the quality of the football being aimed at there would go a small way to helping us attract the highest calibre of trainees.

Searching for talent is now a global and not local operation and is an easy way for clubs to bring in revenue by selling on players deemed not good enough for the first team or, of course, to obtain without the burden of multi-million pound transfer fees new first team players or stars. Bjarni should be the next one through for Everton if he continues his steady progress and I'm expecting good things from Kissock in a few years time.

Stadium location arguments aside, it is pleasing to think our great club will soon have a larger modern stadium bringing in an increased revenue stream and a state-of-the-art academy able to compete with the other big clubs in the search for global talent. This is the minimum required infrastructure to compete in modern football and the sooner EFC can create that infrastructure the better.
Glen Anderson, Huyton  (18/2/07)

What the council can do for us

A lot of people have written in asking why Liverpool City Council can't do something for us that would provide an alternative to the Kirkby/Tesco deal.

I have read all the arguements people have put forward when asking this question and I do see their point. Why should we move out of the city? Liverpool FC are getting a good deal from the council, we are part of the fabric of the city and deserve the council's help. All these are valid points.

However, the primary reason that the club has gone with the Tesco deal is that we have no money. It would be all well and good if the city council was prepared to give us a greenfield site, it is all well and good if it would help with grants and or planning permission. Once we had these things in place we would still have to have the money to pay someone to build the stadium. Right now we don't.

Yes, you could say why don't we just hold off then until we do have the money. Unfortunately, I don't see that money anywhere on the horizon, be it through investors or increased revenue. And as has been said before, the longer we leave a new stadium the further behind other clubs we fall, be it in terms of prestige, attractiveness to possible investors or increased revenue.

I think that if we want the council's help, then yes ask for it. But let's just be a bit more practical about it. Push the fact that we do mean so much to the people living in Liverpool. Provide a transport system that will bring them out to the new ground. Assist our new council with regards to the move, lobby with state agencies on our behalf for grants, planning permission and so on, even if Tesco's are the primary developer in the deal.

Remember, if nothing else, the city council would appear to be getting off very lightly with the fact that we are preparing to move outside the city limits. They shouldn't be allowed to shirk their responsibility to a club that has done so much for the city over the years.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (18/2/07)

Time to Terminate

Andy van der Meyde's history at Everton has been a succession of reasons why he cannot fulfil his contract. There must be a clause or loophole by which we can cut our losses and run him out of town?

when he was supposed to be recuperating from injury prior to season's start after a night on the lash with a lady friend, he was in hospital on a stomach pump. Surely that was reason enough for a sacking or even sue him for breach of contract?

Later, we were given a ridiculous excuse that he strained a muscle just by kicking a ball. Never fully fit since he came, he now has an injury that keeps the useless git out for the rest of the season.

Next year, we are told will be his best. Would that be as the arse end of a pantomime horse in Blackpool? How much longer has this leadswinger got before we get rid?
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (18/2/07)

The truth outs

On reflection of the Howard deal, it suggests that we have been slapped away as a very small club by the evil empire!

This 'undisclosed' business really should be banned by Uefa as it allows too much corruption in transfer deals, the same corruption Uefa say they are hell-bent to stamp out. Personally, I believe Everton never paid a dime for Neville or Howard, and if true then the Board have totally failed us. There should be a supporters meeting with the club to discuss where £20 million of the Rooney deal has gone to these last three years.

Selling Rooney was painful enough, especially after Billy Bullshit said they would never sell him for all the tea in China. After the inevitable, to only official receive £10 million for Rooney is a total disgrace, and I doubt any other club in Europe would have been mugged so nonchalantly! Is it a coincidence that we have signed Man United players for the last two seasons???

The club continue to treat the fans like complete idiots! Hence why, unless someone gives me their unwanted ticket, I will never go to Goodison paying with my money. Ok Everton will hardly miss my money, but I refuse to fund such a lying and incompetent bunch of frauds! Sack the board!!!
Luq Yussef, London  (18/2/07)

Width & Ground Debates

First of all, I'd just like to say how tired I am of the numerous articles on the proposed Tesco stadium. I'm currently travelling abroad and keep logging on to ToffeeWeb when I can to check how my TEAM is doing. That to me is the most important thing. This incessant talk about whether we should move or not interests me less than people's opinions on whether Fernandes made a good debut, and what kind of role he played ? all information I have found hard to come by. Anyway I'll stop moaning now.

So it looks like Shandy Andy is on his way at the end of the season, which will leave us with a total of zero proper wide players. I really hope Moyes will address this issue in the summer, as it seems to me that Arteta is often wasted on the left, and Osman or whoever else plays on the right, is usually ineffective.

Maybe Moyes should shove Phil Neville out to the right side now Hibbert's back as at least he's got a decent cross on him. In the long term though we need some proper width and pace (oh for another Kanchelskis!).

I'm just hoping that the arrival of Fernandes and the recent return of Cahill to the team will enable Moyes to play a bit more attractively.

ps: Glad to hear we've got Tim signed up nice and early (a novelty for Everton).
Logan Shave, Rainford, Merseyside  (18/2/07)

Bill don't do it

I thought Ian Mcdaonald brought up many interesting points, in his article "Don't do it, Bill". One was the Great Homer Street area, if the land was available? What a spot for the new stadium! I am sure, Ian, with the help all Blues, fans can get the Website he suggested up and running, and then maybe have a VOICE that Kenwright and co will listen to? I will offer any help I can to Ian, and hope we can have a say in OUR clubs future?
Norman Merrill, Everton, Liverpool  (18/2/07)

Bill Shouldn't

Good article with some interestings points. It's obvious that we need to move but is Kirkby right for us? Where have Liverpool City Council offered us as an alternative? Warren Bradley is a Blue but is he fighting for us or has he given up? The Council owe us after the help they have given to the Dark Side!

Great point about Bill Kenwright ? he needs to be moved on. You cannot run a club from 200 miles away. Keith Wyness is small-time, he came from Aberdeen! We take more fans away from home than they get for a home game! I disagree with Rob Elstone being made out to be good at his job! The man doesn't know anything about football let alone our club or history. Who do you think is behind all these embarrassing adverts on the radio begging for support?! Let's get rid of all of the above and go with our begging bowls to the DIC Group and let them help us take our club back above the infidels!
Barry Cass, Liverpool  (17/2/07)

Ian Mac

After reading his article, I hope other people realise the folly of Kirkby. I congratulate Ian on putting such a compelling case. I also remember a few years ago when I complained on this site about the Everton Shop being closed on Xmas Eve he was very helpful and, like all of us concerned about the move. No insult is meant for Kirby or its residents.
Roy Coyne, Old Swan  (17/2/07)

The People's Club

When David Moyes came to Everton, he struck a chord straight away when he described us as 'The People's Club'. With the current debate on the ground-move running hot, I wonder which people we are talking about now? Just people who live in the City of Liverpool?

The fact of the matter is, as your mailbag demonstrates daily, there are Evertonians all over the world who follow their club with equal passion. The club must always be the number one priority and if the ground move is best for the club, so be it. Surely the object is to better Liverpool on the pitch ? then their pathetic chants about ground location will ring very hollow indeed.

By the way, I an off to the A-League Grand Final here in Melbourne today where football is going gangbusters for the first time ever really. There will be a record attendance of 56,000 in a state-of-the-art ground. The place may not have Goodison's old world charm that one of your other Melbourne correspondents referred to, but it does have public transport right on the doorstep, plenty of parking, refreshement facilities and decent toilets close to every seat. On top of that, the atmosphere is fantastic and large numbers of families are being attracted to games. The whole city is talking about club football for the first time ever. And it's happened in just two years.

New really doesn't necessarily mean bad and surely Everton have to look at what the next generation of fans wants as well as keeping current fans happy. Ultimately of course, what makes the difference is success and I think a ground switch for Everton will go a long way to achieving that aim, be it in or outside the city boundaries.
Richard Ewart, Melbourne, Australia  (17/2/07)

Clearing up my point

Michael, I wasn't implying people might think a deal for Howard was a stupid idea, I was refering to the suggestion that, as part of the Rooney deal, we were getting cast-offs from Man Utd instead of money.

Also I agree, I would like to see what we paid but my point was other teams sign players for undisclosed amounts, it seems only some Everton fans link this with some conspiracy.
John Martin, Bootle  (17/2/07)

Tim Howard

In John Martin's response to my post, I'd like to reiterate the valid points made by Michael. It's the very fact that most other clubs "just accept" that they have signed a player which has led to an enquiry by Lord Stevens into transfer corruption.

Whilst I am in no way suggesting Everton or Man Utd are involved in any shady deals, there is a massive lack of transparency in transfer deals which should concern the match-going fan like myself who pay hundreds of pounds to support their football club and are entitled to wonder how their cash is being spent.

Undisclosed fees do nothing but hide facts from fans. I personally think Everton were shafted royally on the Rooney deal. Aston Villa paid the same amount for Angel as were paid up front for arguably the greatest player of his generation.

Perhaps we should be like other clubs and "just accept" that we're selling a player? Surely, a stupid idea?

No, this should not be the case. Football is a business that is open to massive amounts of corruption due to the fact that the value of an asset (a player) is based on opinion and so there's no guidelines for it. This is something I personally think that the FA and FIFA should be working on making more transparent; ending undisclosed fees would be a start.

ps: The last undisclosed fee Everton were involved in was the transfer of young highly rated defender Mark Hughes. It's since been rumoured that the fee was £65,000. No wonder they wanted to keep that quiet!
Dean Paton, Wirral  (17/2/07)

Don't do it, Everton

I would just like to say how impresed I was with Ian MacDonald's piece 'Don't do it, Bill'. I must admit was a waverer on the Stadium issue and at first thought that it wouldn't be a bad move going to Kirkby, close to motorway links and easier access for fans.

Redevelopment of Goodison is out of the question, unless the city council put a compulsory purchase order on people in the Walton area to vacate their properties. A course of action I wouldn't subscribe to. So the answer really is to find a site not too far from the place where we ply our trade now and I have to say Great Homer Street would be a fabulous location. A bit further for me, but nevertheless a bit closer to the city centre.

I can say my vote is firmly in the "Stay in Liverpool" corner ? if not necessarily in the "Rebuild Goodison" one. It irks me to think that a club who, without the permission of the good people of Liverpool named themselves after the city, then stole the anthem from a famous musical, Carousel, and have the audacity to ask why we are called the People's Club and also were created on the back of other people making a stand on the issues of unfair rent.

Everton are the originators of football in the city; without Everton there would be no LFC and it would be a real shame for the club to become Newtowners. So, woolyback or not, I firmly place my whole-hearted support to the "Keep Everton in the City Limits" party. I would even vote for Derek Hatton on this issue and I would send people out in taxis to vote for the very issue.
Mike McLoughlin, St Helens  (17/2/07)

Undisclosed fees

Everton conclude a deal to sign Tim Howard, a deal 99% of all Everton fans are happy with. As with a lot of transfer deals done by most clubs, the actual amount is undisclosed. Of course this sends certain Everton fans into conspiracy theory overload, unlike most other clubs who just accept they have signed someone. No, for us it's the Rooney deal, it's crap and we are getting cast-offs ? what a stupid idea!
John Martin, Bootle  (17/2/07)

What will the new academy be called?

I think the club are missing a trick by not calling the new academy on Finch Farm the "School of Science", I really do. The definition of an academy is "an institution for the advancement of art or science or literature" and when you consider Steve Bloomer of Derby and England's comments on Everton "They always manage to serve up football of the highest scientific order." and one of our previous nicknames it is very apt.
Louis Platt, West Kirby  (17/2/07)

Van der Twat

Well, well, well, just logged onto the official website, and saw that idiot Van der Twat waxing lyrical about the world beater he will be next season... did not he say the same thing last year? I just want to walk to the back of the JJB sports shop, find an Everton shirt tucked away, and slap that tosser around with it for an hour or two. Andrew, SOD OFF!!!!
Will Bruce, London  (17/2/07)

The quality of the present Everton team

I read many comments on this board about the 'rubbish' Everton play. In some ways, one feels one has to agree but then, it is not all of the players, primarily it can be attributed to the 'old guard'. Stubbsy, a great defensive player, has absolutely no idea of how to play offensively. 'Boom' goes the ball downfield, invariably to an opposition player and so we start to defend again.

I do not feel it would be fair to level this charge against Yobo, Lescott or Valente. Arteta, Fernandes are both great ball players and AvdM is no hit-and-hope merchant when playing. Osman is quite reasonable with the ball at his feet, and Cahill, whilst no great ballplayer, has the knack of scoring the odd goal for us.

AJ is a goalscorer but not so great a bal player and as for the other strikers **!+*%£! That's where are next urgent buy must be.

Our lack of goals is so obviously due to the absnce of strikers apart from AJ. We need at least three in the actual playing squad. Might I suggest you critics look at Man Utd. Ronaldo, Rooney, Saha, Scholes, Giggs and in the wings, Sjolksjaer, Larsson and Park. What arrant rubbish to complain at Everton's lack of goals. Would that we had just one or two of Utd's strike force to supplement ours.

Please, I beg of you, give David Moyes credit for building a young quality side from the back up. The next couple of years are the ones to judge him by.
Tim Lloyd, Stockport  (17/2/07)

Logic behind the deal....

The deal which took Tim Howard to Everton was undisclosed. This may be a bit of a conspiracy theory, but Tim Howard is a player I think 99.99% of Everton fans would be desperate to keep, therefore:

1) If the club have paid a small amount for him (say, £1.5M) it would be in their interest to disclose it, to show the fans what a bargain they have.

or

2) If they've paid over the odds (£3.5M or above) it shows the fans that the Board have ambition and money to spend when needed.

The fact that the fee remains undisclosed suggests that there may be another factor: namely that the transfer fee is tied up to the money owed from Rooney, which suggests United paid £10M upfront, and the rest of the fee has come from their cast offs. Just a thought.
Dean Paton, Wirral  (17/2/07)

Howard to face Man Utd after all

Pehaps we eon't have to endure Dodgy Dicky between the sticks on 28 April 2007 after all....

'Howard is now an Everton player, with the contract signed this week replacing the season-long loan deal agreed with Manchester United last summer.' ? everton fc.com.....
Wayne Francis, Anglesey  (17/2/07)

Still to be convinced Kirkby is not in Liverpool

Michael, yesterday you replied very eloquently to my letter regarding Kirkby, citing West Kirkby as a reason that a Liverpool postcode, and 0151 number is not proof of being within Liverpool.

I accepted your argument. However whilst reading the mailbag this morning, in replying to another letter you posted a link to the Wikipedia definition of Liverpool. I assume this was to further cement your argument, however, I feel it strngthens Kirkby's "In Liverpool" argument; I will explain why:-

Wikipedia puts Liverpools population at 441,777 in 2002, with 816,000 in the "Liverpool Urban Area", which includes suburbs on the Liverpool side of the Mersey, but not those on The Wirral. So, from Wikipedia's definition, Kirkby is in Liverpool, whilst West Kirkby is not.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to stay at Goodison, but if we must move, so be it. I am not pro-/anti-Kirkby, (just pro-Everton), but if a move to Kirkby is best for the club, I am all for it.

In an ideal world, a billionaire will take us over and rebuild Goodison; if this does not happen, let us move on together. Remember, the longer we stand still, the further away the leaders will get.
John Molyneux, Sale, Cheshire  (17/2/07)

Wheels within Wheels?

This weekend, not having a game to worry about, I had time to dwell on another Everton-related matter, namely a possible ground-share. Am I the only one to think there is more to come from that notion?

Several things puzzle me about the Yank?s takeover deal: first they were in, then out. Dubai had it sewn up... then suddenly they were out and the Yanks were in again. Immediately the Everton/Tesco plan hit the headlines. It all seems on the level but I wonder if (A) the money men are true supporters and have the fans wishes foremost or (B) they are only in it for a quid. If the answer is A, matters stay as they are. If it is B, in accordance with Gillets first preference a shared stadium could again be on the agenda.

Having Tesco as an alternative Everton would have a much stronger hand in negotiations about a shared stadium. Could it be that BK and Buster are attempting a financial master stroke? Watch this space.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (17/2/07)

Face the facts

Facts for all Evertonians to digest: No to Kirkby, no to Tesco = No new stadium! Simple equation = End of arguement.
Simon Ganson, West Derby  (17/2/07)

'Tradition...Tradition!'

Great article from Nick Entwistle, 'Notes from a Londoner'. If you haven't read it but want a dose of sanity in an otherwise crazy world, then you must do so.

Sadly, the world around us is rapidly changing and not always, I fear, for the better. I am proud of the fact that I can still play in the same five-a-side team as my 18-year-old but kids even play the game differently these days. If someone looks at them wrong, they appeal for a foul and protest their indignation. Our conversations in the car on the way home are dominated by tales of Billy Bremner and Peter Reid, who could play but not ponce around at the same time, continually looking for protection from the ref.

The future at Stadium Tesco may be 'so bright you need to wear shades...' but here in Australia we know that sunshine can also equal melanoma. I have friends who support Sunderland, Leicester and Southampton. They were sold the dream of a new stadium on the basis that it would bring increased revenue and was essential as a stepping stone to a brighter future. Now ask them whether they would rather be playing Man Utd at their old home, or Southend with better toilet facilities. It's a sobering thought. In a nutshell, we need to get the team on the park sorted before we consider the huge risk of moving.

Too simplistic? Actually, I think that may be the easier option. Otherwise we will be attempting to fill a 55,000 seater stadium on the outskirts of the city, financially crippled in the transfer market because of the ground move and still trying to shut up shop when we go ahead by a goal!
Andy McNabb, Melbourne, Australia  (17/2/07)

Knowsley not in Liverpool?

Where is it then? If you come from Knowsley you're not a scouser? Come over and tell my dad that...

Nobody plays in the City of London. Man Utd play in Trafford, which has a nice big borough council. Bolton play on a motorway. I can?t think of a major team that plays in a City Centre. Don?t for god?s sake say Walton counts as that! Use your common sense ? local government boundaries mean nothing when you're talking about a great city.

OK, Michael, you know where 'the City of Liverpool' stops and the rest of the world begins, but nobody else does except politicians and refuse collectors. After all, if Liverpool had been thriving a bit more in the early 1970s we would have Knowsley, Wallasey, Birkenhead, Runcorn, Ormskirk ? you name it ? included in Greater Liverpool, just as happened up the East Lancs Road. Would we have been allowed a sensibly-located stadium then please? Right! So, why should Everton fans give a toss about local government boundaries?

If you stick to your pedantic definition of Liverpool I hope you took due account of the minor 1993 alterations and will go along with future boundary changes, which are regarded as inevitable within the next 20 years. That way you can move with the times and adjust your definition of acceptable locations for our great club.
Peter Hall, Wirral  (16/2/07)

Please Explain

Can somebody please explain to me why the current site of Goodison cannot be rebuilt upon? Or for that matter why the club feels a 50,000 capicity is what they need? What is the biggest attendance of the year? What is the 2nd biggest? Are we actually going to attract more supporters by moving away when we can't attract a fullhouse now when it's right there in the middle of the city? I know it's about the price of a ticket but are we actually going to get an average attendance of 13,000 more at a new stadium on the outskirts of town?

And if they have built retro stadiums in my country, why can't they build a stadium that looks like Goodison and feels like Goodison but has been updated to the 21st century? Why do we have to build a sterile place like theEastlands or the Reebok? Why can't we take what we have, rebuild it on the site and come up with a state of the art "old" stadium. Would we need to play our games somewhere else for a couple of years? Or do we need to sell the site in order to build a new stadium?
Al Dugan, NYC, NY  (16/2/07)

The value of the grand old lady

To chip in my tuppeny worth, apparently since Liverpool FC have the green light on Stanley Park, house prices have already risen by approximately £7,000 as an example for Priory Road. Given the proximity to a new "super stadium" (said gritting teeth and spitting) I'm sure there would be plenty of property developer's climbing over themselves to flatten the old girl and erect apartments or houses in the regenerated Walton. Or then again maybe the deal with Tesco would be to flatten it and create some form of distribution centre to partner the retail store they maybe planning to build on Great Homer Street.

At the end of the day it's down to what BK wants for it and what anyone wants to pay for it.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (16/2/07)

Déjà vu

Being exiled to Sale, imagine my surprise when the local free paper, Manchester Metro News popped through my door toaday. The headline screams, "NEW TRAFFORD DEAL SPARKS TESCO RUMPUS". So I read it with intrest, and for the benefit of Evertonians, I will Quote the first couple of paragraphs. :-

"ANXIOUS shopkeepers and environmental groups fear that plans to redevelop Old Trafford cricket ground will include a huge new superstore.

"Lancashire County Cricket Club has announced an agreement with Tesco, Ask Developments and Trafford Council, which will pave the way for a multi-million redevelopment of it's historic ground in Stretford, dubbed, 'New Trafford'.

"A new 25,000-seater, world-class stadium is to be built as part of a £190M development, which includes homes,retail outlets, a hotel and other leisure facilities".

The similarities to the Everton deal are striking in comparison. After reading this, I am now more convinced than ever that we will be moving to Kirkby. Good or bad, who knows, but it looks inevitable.

ps: Why is Kirkby not considered to be in Liverpool? It has a Liverpool postcode, and an 0151 std code. Yes, it is run by Knowsley, which surely simply means different people will be responsible for emptying the bins at "New Goodison".
John Molyneux, Sale, Cheshire  (16/2/07)

Money versus emotion

I've just read Michael's response to a piece where he says that Goodison is worth about £2½ million. As a piece of real estate, I had it in my head that it would be worth a lot more. As the home of the club I love so much, the figure does seem amazingly paltry.

Of course in rational terms there is no connection between Goodison's physical worth and it's emotional one. To anyone else, Goodison is just a delapadated old ground. Given that it's in the middle of rows and rows of terraced housing, you may get permission for apartments but they're ten a penny nowadays. To a property developer, Goodison might indeed not be worth much more.

Even with my emotional fan's head on I can see the need as much as anyone for a new ground in some way shape or form but this doesn't make the figure any nicer. Goodison will always be priceless to Evertonians and there would be a sense of loss if we got £100M for her.

The figure just makes the whole Tesco's thing even more depressing and makes you realise how low our finances in-all really have sunk.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (16/2/07)

Much Work Ahead for Moyes

The morning routine of scanning the ToffeeWeb Mailbag usually brings a few issues to mull over during the day. Some posts make me react, and most don't, but even with a full plate of good opinion this morning ? I have to say that the small innocuous post of Doddy ticked me off.

Securing the services of Howard and Valente is indeed sound business, but both have been under first-team scrutiny for quite some time, so all it would take is for Moyes to let Buster know that he wants them kept on, and Buster sends off a lackey (sorry I meant highy-trained legal-associate) to do the contract work ? Carsley and Stubbs will probably be sorted in due course.

But, please don't think this is managerially brilliant. IF ? and it's a big IF ? Fernandes turns out to be the perfect foil for Arteta, and IF we are willing to pay the going rate for him, and IF Mikky is even still here come August ? that would leave us with exactly the same squad as we have today.

A definition of a fool is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results; same squad of players usually means the same standard of play (although you have to wonder what happened to us in the summer of 2004!!). With Arteta and Fernandes in midfield, that still leaves two open slots that David Moyes needs to fill with a right-sided and a left-sided player of top quality.

And please don't start with the total football argument ? you play people out of their natural position in an emergency (or sometimes in a moment of tactical genius) but any lengthy plan to play people out of position merely leads to other parts of the team having to overcompensate and it most certainly limits the team's ability to attack with confidence and fluidity.

These contract extensions and such are fine, but don't be fooled, Doddy, there has to be some major work done between now and next season if we are to move up and consistently play close to the level that 'most' Evertonians desire.
Greg Dawson, Not in Walton Anymore  (16/2/07)

A word of caution

A word to the wise before everyone goes overboard about Nugent. Living in the city with friends who are season-ticket holders at Deepdale, I have to tell you that the majority think the present figures are vastly OTT and that many are unsure of his Premiership credentials. They all agree that his performances since the transfer window closed have been good, but are unconvinced about two of the main qualities needed to cope at the highest level: speed and involvement.

He would undoubtedly be worth a 'punt' but not at the prices being quoted. Figures of £6M plus are way over the top. At that price he needs to be close to the finished article and he's a long way off that. Let's not get seduced by the fact he's an Evertonian; what's more important is how good a player he is ? not who he supports, it helps to settle in but doesn't make a blind bit of difference out on the park against international defenders.
Jim Hourigan, Preston  (16/2/07)

Quick Question

If we do move to Kirkby, into a stadium built by Tesco, which we wil rent, will the money made from the sale of Goodison Park be available for transfers or will it go towards the cost of construction etc?
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (16/2/07)

Direct line

I`ve just gone one better than Harry Meek. I`ve e-mailed Michael Dell with Bill Kenwright`s number ? now niether will have an excuse not to talk!
Bill Edmonds, Liverpool  (16/2/07)

When will truth dawn?

It amazes me how many Evertonians continue to agognise over the siting of a new stadium. Any fool should have gathered by now that the only way a move can be made is if somebody outside the Club picks up the bill.

From what we know, the only serious interest is from Tesco and the Knowsley Council. Obviously, the site will be of their choosing and all the traffic studies/consumer polls/consultation exercises in the world will not alter that reality. We either go along with it or stay where we are, principally because Kenwright & Co have no money and little hope of getting any.

When will the truth dawn on the dreamers who inhabit this site?
Colin Tunstall, Wirral  (16/2/07)

No smoke without fire?

Well it's all gone quiet on the racial front between that despicable bigot (allegedly) Emre, and what happened at Goodison.

It's probably all been blown up out of all propor... sorry... oops, just seen on the wire the FA are now investigating claims he racially abused the equally despicable (for different reasons) Diouf when they played Bolton.

Makes you think what could've happened if we had signed him...
Matt Traynor, Singapore  (16/2/07)

It's My House!

There is a lot of hot emotive air floating around about moving or staying at Goodison Park. It's quite simple really. If I want to move my business or house to an alternative location, subject to finances, it is my decision. Similarly Mr Kenwright can do whatever he wants, as long as he has the money, after all, it is his house. It is his decision. We are merely the followers to wherever he takes us. But remember, the cheapest option is not always the best value. The basket I bought in the Pound Shop only lasted a week!!
Mike McCarthy, Shrewsbury  (16/2/07)

'A woolyback view' by Tony Miller

Don't know where Tony comes from but what a sound and constructive opinion. I am with him 100%, the ground is beloved by most Evertonians but, doubtless, so were the grounds of those clubs who have moved on.

A new ground, within comparitively easy reach for all local Evertonians, is I agree an absolute necessity if Everton are to make progress. We are developing a sound and constructive squad of players. Let us have a stadium where our new team can display their undoubted talents.
Tim Lloyd, Stockport  (16/2/07)

Will Bill call Texas?

I have just read that Computer billionaire, Michael Dell, the world`s 12th richest man, is actively shopping for a Premier League club. With a fortune on par with Abramovich, making such an aquisition would be like spending pocketmoney to him.

I have this morning sent a message to Bill Kenwright containing the telephone number and e-mail address of Dell`s Texas headquarters and have even offered to pay for the call I am sure he will be making this afternoon. I promise to let you know the outcome...
Harry Meek, Worcester  (16/2/07)

Doing his bit for England

For all the criticism that comes David Moyes`s way, he seems to be doing his bit for England. Figures appearing in a number of dailies show that no other club in the Prem can boast more than Everton`s 12 Englishmen in their senior academy. It has always seemed a misconception to me that Moyes is not interested in youth development. During his five years in charge Osman, Rooney, Anichebe and Vaughan have graduated to the first team squad and we hear others will make the step up this summer.
Seb St Clare, Harrogate  (16/2/07)

Dan O'Brien

I'll have a few pints of what you're on please son, or maybe let me know where I can get a pair of those blue-tinted specs you've always got on. There's optimism, and then there's what you've got ? plain stupidity. Why can't you just keep your mouth shut about how we're gonna do this and that? You're probably the type of fan who's always givin it the big-un in the boozer, only to disappear when we fail yet again and all the stick comes flying back. Just keep quiet until we DO acheive something, then you can knock yourself out.
Johnny Mangolestsi, Rhyl  (16/2/07)

Nugent

Reading The Independent on the way to work and the feature piece on David Nugent. Could anyone make a more obvious plea for a club to sign him? It's as blatant as Paul Ince's legendary pose in a Man Utd top whilst still a West Ham player.

The line about Nugent being confident he will play for Everton at some point in his career is interesting. I'm sure his availability in the summer will depend a lot on what happens with Preston, assuming Moyes and the club rate him enough to make a bid. To me he looks good enough and it would be a shame to miss out.
Nick Smith, London  (16/2/07)

In response to myself... first impressions

Guys, Just to clear up a couple of things?. 1) I?m neither German, Bavarian, nor English ? I?m Irish. The Irish fans have over the years received numerous awards for their commitment to supporting their team (especially through lots of thick?) ? they are passionate but peaceful ? that?s where the fine line is.

2) Whatever my impressions of Liverpool ? as I said I still love the city because of Goodison, its history and supporters. Yes, it is impossible to give a balanced judgement of the city after a one-day visit, but I didn?t do that ? I was giving my first impressions, and stated them knowing some would be offended. I hope that future city developments will prove me wrong, but there are cities that are more pleasing to the eye.

Yes I did visit the ?tourist? areas, with some lovely buildings, but somehow it reminded me of Gotham City ? something dark and eerie about it ? must have been that stupid ?Anfield? bird on top of some big building which oozed evil over that street? I really hope Liverpool 2008 will clean up some of those dark areas so that we can all be proud of such a great city.

3) I don?t want to be great buddies with any kopites but I have three brothers who are Liverpool supporters, and know that many of us have close friends, colleagues and family members who have chosen the dark side. It?s great to have rivalry in football ? but it should not be become pure hatred or violent ? booing of the opposition team members just because they play for the opposition, have a different colour or language. As I said the girl next to me must of thought I was a lunatic on the day, but all the shouting was in good humour and at the end she saw the funny side too? 4) Ideals are like stars: you can never reach them, but they can guide your way?

And btw?. Fernandes looks really good?. Finally some like-footed/minded support for Arteta. Joey Yobo will certainly need to watch out for his easy-going attitude to passing around the backline.
Kevin O'Regan, Munich, Germany  (16/2/07)

Moyes planning ahead

It says much for the tenacity of Davey Moyes that he is already planning ahead for next season. With the signings of Howard and Valente and news soon of one-year agreements for Carsley and Stubbs, we shall need only the odd new signing (hopefully Fernandes) in the close season to see Everton once more in contention for a European spot.

Whilst the Moyestro still has a few critics, his ability to steer the Club into calm untroubled waters rather than the shark-invested territory of his predecessors is well appreciated by the majority. I have every hope that we shall at least make the Intertoto place this season but a finishing position in the top half will see the steady progress continuing and will, I think, be acceptable to most Evertonians.
Richard Dodd, Formby  (16/2/07)

Kevin O'Regan

Your piece was a refreshing change and got me to dash to the mailbag to see the responses from those delicate flowers who are offended.

I think Tony Marsh works for the Culture Company of LCC. Step out of the city centre and much of Liverpool is a jigsaw of estates comprising of poor housing and crap facilities and miserable professional victims. Don't quote history to me... that attitude is something that has developed in the last 20 - 30 years.

As for the football... how dare he say it is a sport! We have a 100 year history that gives us the right and duty to be as unpleasant, threatening and offensive as we wish to show we are true fans.
Ged Smith, Liverpool  (16/2/07)

Nugent

So David Nugent "wants to play for Everton". Isn't it great to hear a promising player say that publicly? I for one will spend the rest of this season hoping that Preston fail to win promotion cos he'll be on his way out if they stay in that division. Will we be able to afford him and Fernandes wuth this new TV money though???

Does anyone at Toffeeweb Towers know how long he has left on his contract and would this affect his price? AJ and Nugent would certainly be an exciting, pacy duo with little chance of playing long ball too! High hopes as ever and even more reason to push on and be successful in our remaining games. Two places higher will mean millions more in prize money. COYB
Niall Clinton, London  (16/2/07)

Blurred Limits

Interesting to read The Independent article on David Nugent. He talks about the likes of himself, Gerrard and Barton and I quote:-

"It's nice to see so many Scousers doing well, and especially from Huyton..."

Whisper it quietly: Knowsley!
Tony Horne, Kettering  (16/2/07)

Two Points

Nice to see the Tim Howard story on the Sky website. They show that he is statistically performing at a greater level than any other keeper in England. We don't no the exact price, but the projected fee of around £1½M to £3M, seems a bit of a bargain, considering today's market.

After talking to a few people, it appears following our 12-game nose-dive, a lot of us Blues seem to be getting excited again. I think our improvement in form may have a lot to do with our other Tim ? Mr Cahill's return to fitness. He looks so influential. Even when he does not play well, teams get players on him, therefore, freeing up space for AJ an Arteta.

Can't wait for Spurs game; our syle of play, when we have Cahill, does not bore me at all. We are priviledged to watch him, Arteta, and the rest of the boys. We do have the best of the rest, and I fancy us for fourth. Rafa has lost it! COYB!!!
Dan O'Brien, Liverpool  (16/2/07)

In Response to Kevin O'Regan

First of all, his idealistic views on football support and favourism of the niceties. But most of all, he would have got a few people's back ups on the appearance and appeal of Liverpool the city.

Having recently taken the plunge and moved over to Melbourne, I?d like to think I can comment fairly, whereas Kevin?s 22-yr absence may have clouded his judgement slightly. The run-down pubs and houses and those dimly lit roads which you refer to are what makes going to Goodison exciting. Have you been to the Reebok or Riverside? They?re soul-less, gray stadiums with soul-less, gray fans to match.

As you walk down the roads which take you to Goodison, you can feel the atmosphere build ? little kids running behind their dad as they walk too quick, different conversations ring through your ears, weird and wonderful ground rumours. This is all the more apparent on evening matches during the week; for some reason, the bigger games then have a different feel.

Yes, you?re right ? it doesn?t look great, but for me its gives me a buzz every time I see it. Going to the ?Telstra Dome? to watch Melbourne Victory play just doesn?t have the same ring to it.

Just on Liverpool the city: when I left, it looked like a war zone. Building works round every corner and absolutely no chance of navigating through the city without getting stuck in road works. Probably since Kevin left the city 22 years ago, it has been in a state of decay, we?re finally getting the areas which needed fixing done. It may take time, but go back in a couple of years and take comment then; I bet you will see things differently.

Lastly, this isn?t the first time I've worked away from home ? it probably won't be the last ? but every scouser and more importantly, every Evertonian looks back at their spiritual home with fondness and are proud of their heritage no matter what it looks like.

Right? I?ll get down from my soapbox now!!
Carl Wright, Melbourne, Australia  (16/2/07)

Boringly high efficiency

So David Hall suggests that Everton are the 6th most boring team in the Premiership whilst ? based on the same statistics ? Steve Guy claims they are the 4th most effective! Both may well be right but I always thought that football was supposed to be an entertainment in which teams sought to score goals and they can only do that if they fashion enough chances (shots) to do so.

The cult of `high efficiency` football so loved by the coaches of `average` teams is sadly coming to be accepted as the norm but I cannot recall a single team actually WINNING anything with this style of play. It is at best a survival strategy which is emptying grounds at an alarming rate.

Surely nobody would claim that it is as exciting to watch a team who have 200 shots at goal rather than one who has 400 ? even the Beatties of this world might convert a few of that number!

Although......
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (15/2/07)

Kevin O'Regan article

Good article by Kevin O'Regan but just one point:

Bit harsh an assesment on Liverpool because I've seen it have worse days but a lot of players are drawn to Everton because they can live in Cheshire, which is rather nice!

As for Andy van der Merde, he seems to enjoy getting wasted down the Albert Dock for £20k a week so I don't see any complaints there!
Dan Parker, New York, USA  (15/2/07)

Style and Substance

Having read a variety of submissions relating to statistics and their merits, it seems to that the Everton style of play is a more pertinent thing to consider.

Having watched last night's match between Bolton and Arsenal, my own preference would be to try and emulate the Arsenal style. Of course, you need the skilful players to begin with but you also require the attitude to play that way. Wenger undoubtedly has built the philosphy within the club and then allows his players to express themselves.

I would argue that Everton have enough skill in the team to play more expressively but all too often resort to the Bolton methodology and, in my opinion, it detracts from our performance and therefore our results.

I know some have said on the site that Arsenal's style is all pass, pass, pass without the end result. Everton and Bolton on the other hand are all huff and puff with the result of every game in doubt. But I know that, as a football lover, I would much prefer to watch Everton try and emulate Arsenal than to be yet another Bolton clone.

In the long run, Arsenal's style of play and their ability will lead to long-term success, while being a Bolton clone will eventually run aground.
John Patrick McFarlane, Lancs  (15/2/07)

Balancing the Books

Without a doubt, signing Howard is a good bit of business.

Call me cynical if you wish but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Kilbane/Davies money was used to fund this deal. Yet it will be completed in the summer... when it's... a summer transfer window signing!

A sell-to-buy policy is fine for smaller clubs but we need to get some decent positive transfer funds to really strengthen the squad. £20M+ transfer kitties (like Rooney...) don't come around very often. I don't really want to flog Mikel in the summer to buy the new striker we need.

Time to dig into the pockets, Bill ? or give the reigns to someone who can.
Jeremy Benson, Cotswolds  (15/2/07)

Progress, it not slow and painful!

Finally we have something to cheer about at Everton with the signings of Howard and Valente.

Howard is the best keeper to don the Everton jersey since Neville Southall; his presence and ability is there for all to see by solidifying our rear-guard and adding confidence to the defense. And at 27, his best years are hopefully ahead of him, and hopefully at Everton. I for one am not bothered about Howard officially signing at the end of the year, it means he'll be here for six years at the very least.

Kudos also to the much-maligned board and to Moyes. This season they have acted with swift deadliness to secure targets and tie down the better players early. Have they finally learned from the years of abuse and failure? Time will tell! And unlike some others I will praise when relevant and give flack when relevant, as that is the role of a common fan! Not e.mails spouting off at their deluded sense of importance and intelligence....

Lastly, more good news in the shape of Anderson Da Silva. He has been exceptional in his first two games for Everton, and I'm eager to see him in action in the first team at some stage. Hopefully, with a bit of encouragement, he can be a real star in the making at Everton! C'mon on David, he has to be better than Osman surely!
Luq Yussef, London  (15/2/07)

Cut the fluff

Call me a cynic, but this sudden spate of ?new signings? leaves me shaking my head. I just wonder if it's the club?s way of justifying to paying supporters that they are delivering. I really don?t know...

Starting the season in August, the club had made ?three signings?, but it depends on how you define a signing. Howard was never definitely going to join us. Indeed, many thought his loan may have just been the kicker in the Rooney deal. We go into January and we get another ?new signing? in the shape of Manuel Fernandes. Again we hear noises that Moyes would like to sign him permanently. I'm sure I'm not alone in being concerned that all we might do is advertise to the rest of the league how good a player he is. I?m not going to condemn them before it happens though.

Yesterday, we have ?another new signing?. Great, Howard's signed (again). I am really pleased. Then lastly, today, I get my regular Pravda e.mail that usually pushes ?Ladies day? and the suchlike, but says again that we have ?another new signing?, this time Nuno Valente, with whom the club have decided to ?trigger the third year of his contract?. That in itself makes me nervous... but okay, I?ll let that go for now.

So, since the end of last season, the club have told us that we have ?signed? six first team players (Johnson, Lescott, Howard twice, Da Silva & Fernandes). Given the number of times players come back from injury and we hear that their return is like a ?new signing?, you could be forgiven for thinking we have a huge squad and that like Chelsea we?d want to field our B Team in the Football League?

The truth is that we have only brought in three players on permanent contracts since the end of last season and incredibly we managed to enter February with a smaller squad than at Christmas. Since Howard remains a Man Utd player until the summer (it?s what it says on their website ? so don?t expect Howard to face them at GP), no doubt he?ll be paraded in July as ?another new signing?.

I?m a bit fed up with this fluff and gloss. I?m an intelligent guy like most Everton fans. Why do Buster and Bill feel the need to use more spin than Blair? It just happens too much at our club. Yes, fans want Everton to win (and more importantly play nice football) but just a hint to them both. If you want the fans on your side, don?t treat them like morons.
Mark Wynne, Bury St Edmunds  (15/2/07)

All a bit tense, isn't it?

You have to give credit to the club at the moment: two sources of speculation have been removed in the defensive set up.

The on-the-pitch performance has improved, most notably in the last game. Have we finally started to cure the final third conundrum. Now it's more of the same but the finishing needs to get better. Since when has finishing not been a problem for any team in tight matches?

John Holmes, I doff my cap, at excellent words that get people thinking. I think your summation of our current position, whilst not perfect is a great piece of writing.

There is an awful lot of season still to play for. Will we fulfill the promise of a decent team now that most players are available? I am still quite excited that despite a drab season thus far, the potential is still there and needs realising.

I am an arl fashioned fool who thinks Europe's there for the taking and for once I believe the fella's out there can do it. Yet many will remain unconvinced in Toffeeweb Towers.
Eamonn Byrne, Shropshire  (15/2/07)

In Reply to Kevin O'Regan

Just read the article by Kevin O'Regan... Is that really a German name? His lovey-dovey views on football and football supporters made me cry with laughter. If he had his way we would all march down the Kop end after Derby games and give the twats a big hug and some flowers, bless him.

Tribalism is part and parcel of the English game. It can go a little too far at times but without it there would be no point sticking with the one team all your life. Unless your name's Wayne Rooney that is.

It's great that fans from all over the World were giving each other one in Germany last summer but that's totally different to the rivalry that has been built up amongst club fans in England over the past 100 years. We all know that the prawn-sandwhich brigade has infiltrated the game so much over the past few seasons that it has now become the Lobster Thermadore Brigade, but enough is enough.

I would also like to know which parts of the great city of Liverpool he visited to form such a harsh judgement about the place. If he is talking about the areas around Goodison Park ,County Road etc, well we all know it's no Garden of Eden but where is?

Try getting down the Pier Head or The Albert Dock lad. The world Famous St Georges Hall is worth a visit. How about one of the two world-famous cathedrals we boast. The four graces, Beattle City, museums, art galleries, more listed buildings than anywhere outside of London and millions of tourists every year say you're wrong.

What would Yobo, Arteta or ADVM think of it, he says. As far as I know, they all love it here ? even Shandy Andy before his secret life started to catch up on him. Kevin, Walton Road is not in Liverpool city center mate and your views are very offensive to the people of Liverpool.

Call yourself an Evertonian if you must Kevin but we dont need your sanatized version of a football utopia over here. We are happy with it the way it is. By the way, Kev, one of those derelict buildings you spoke of didn't happen to be a chippy did it mate?
Tony Marsh, Sunny Barbados  (15/2/07)

Davey Rocks

I'd just like to jump on the bandwagon and show some appreciation for Mr Moyes's work on and off the field this season.

When Sissoko joined Liverpool last season, after it was announced he would sign for us, I just about lost all faith in Davey's ability to sign quality players. However, with the signings of Lescott, Johnson, Howard and (pleeaase) Fernandes who looks a class act, it's surely time to pat the man on the back.

It's been a slow burner and there's still a long way to go, but I haven't been as optimistic about the future of EFC for quite some time. I've swayed more than once but i'm definitely back in the In Moyes We Trust camp.
Jon Berry, Bath  (15/2/07)

Howard Signing

Like everyone else, I'm pleased with the signing of an international goalkeeper, but I do have a slight worry about Howard's arrival. He came to the club with a mission to prove himself as a Premiership player and to win back his place at Man Utd. Now he doesn't have the pressure to 'prove himself' and the lack of top quality competition to challenge him, I hope laziness doesn't set in. We all know that Wright isn't up to the position, and the other two kids aren't ready yet. Howard has to keep the form he's had all season, or we'll have another Richard Wright all over again.
Kristian Boyce, WA, USA  (15/2/07)

Lies and statisics

Mr Hall's view of Everton's shots-to-goals ratio leads him to believe we are boring. Possibly. But we are effective. If you take the same numbers and look at shots converted into goals as a percentage you get a different picture:

• Man Utd 14.4%
• Bolton 13.7%
• Arsenal 13%
• EVERTON 12.6 %
• Boro 12.1%
• Chelsea 12%
• Reading 11.8%
• Portsmouth 10.7%
• Spurs 9.8%
• Liverpool 8.8%
• Watford 6.7%

What does this mean? We are effective? We've got better strikers? We're more clinical? God only knows, you can do anything with numbers!
Steve Guy, Harrogate  (15/2/07)

Oohs and ahhs.....

If `oohs and ahhs` are what create excitement, the Premier Leagues latest actim statitistics provide a big clue as to why so many Evertonians find the current team so boring to watch. Truth is, only five teams in the entire Prem get in less shots at goal than this season`s Everton. As could be expected The Big Four are out on their own with the Redsox leading the way (shots/goals):

• Liverpool: 451/40
• Man Utd: 437/63
• Chelsea: 395/48
• Arsenal: 368/48

Of the rest, Pompey and Spurs are the only teams to top the 300 shots mark:

• Portsmouth: 334/36
• Tottenham: 306/30

And bringing up the rear:

• Everton: 254/32
• Middlesbrough: 246/30
• Fulham: 245/29
• Reading: 239/41
• Bolton: 233/32
• Watford: 223/15

The paltry total that our heros have managedproves thera are more reluctant to have a crack at goal. As spectators, I guess we should be getting our excitement from all these clean sheets we`re privileged to watch!
David Hall, Taunton  (15/2/07)

Annoyed

When did this whole 'undisclosed' business start? As paying fans and one of the main sources of income ? if not the only ? to the club, why the fuck are we treated like little kids and patronised so easily by being told we've signed a player for an undisclosed fee?

This is shit and it pisses me off. I didn't buy my season ticket for an undisclosed fucking fee did I? Rhetorical, but I bloody didn't. Good signing none the less, Howard's proved he can do well for the club and he seems to like it here. Now we need to spend £10M on an attacking wide player and a striker and we'll have a good side.
Jack Johnson, Knotty Ash  (15/2/07)

Like Footballers?

I heard someone on the radio a few days ago come out with the comment: ?I love football, but I hate footballers? Or something like that. It was on that phone-in programme 606. You know, the one that gives the views of media fans an airing.

I don?t know who said it or who he was talking about. But as a general comment it makes sound sense. Personally, I find most modern footballers arrogant, boorish and childish. It doesn?t take much for the ?teddy to be thrown out of the cot?. On fact the old comment ?can dish it out but can?t take it? springs to mind.

We can all remember the Blackburn player who went down as if shot by a sniper. He collapsed like a tree being felled by Michael Palin, clutching his heart then it transpired he?d hurt his leg. Happily, we as a team don?t have many divers. Admittedly Mikky Arteta does go down a little more easily than he should. No, AJ doesn?t, but he runs into the line of the defender. What there definitely isn?t is the showing of imaginary yellow or red cards.

Now, over my 44 years following Everton, I?ve had the pleasure of meeting some of our players: Alex Young, Jimmy Gabriel, Bob Latchford, Fred Pickering and Alan Whittle, to name just a few. What they had in common is a fair amount of honesty and humility. Ok, they may well have done the odd naughty. Given the opposition defender a little ?nibble?. But dive? forget it! Lobby the Ref? to get someone sent off, I doubt it!
Mike Berry, Otley  (15/2/07)

Will Howard play against Man Utd?

I am probably wrong but when I read the text below on the official site, I assummed that it means he is ours now and therefore can play against the Mancs:

"Although the transfer window is currently shut, Premier League rules permit domestic loan deals to be made permanent outside the window."

Great business by the club, removes any doubt about his position and what will happen in the summer, though I can still see the club claiming he was a summer signing when it comes to anaylzing the summer transfers come September.
Daniel Ford, Newcastle Upon Tyne  (15/2/07)

Manny

Like all Evertonians, I am delighted we have signed up Tim Howard on a permanent deal. I wish I could be so confident we will manage to do the same with Manuel Fernandes (yeah, he's only played one game for us, but he's simply class and a cut above the rest of our squad as regards skill, Arteta excepted of course).

What exactly is the deal here? Do we really have first option to sign him and if so what's the price? £12M is being quoted in various places ? if true, how the hell could we get anywhere near that? (yeah,I know, if we got 10 mill for Beattie & McFadden...dream on!).

Would the player join us, even if we had the readies, on our strict wage structure? If he has a couple more good games for us, the 'big' clubs will be sniffing around and of course the Stanley Park Shitehawks are already rumoured to be hovering ? and £12M is small change to them, plus they could probably double his wages.

Meanwhile, my mate in Lisbon tells me that the word is Benfica don't actually want to sell him; they only sent him to the Premier to toughten him up a bit, and we know he's just extended his contract with them. Our 'official' website (surprise, surprise) couldn't be more vague on the subject ("he will join on an initial six-month loan deal" - no actual mention of a permanent deal.)

I'm stating all this to give myself a reality check because if we did manage to sign him (and keep hold of Arteta, Cahill, Lescott etc) it would be a huge step towards playing some decent football again and would also send out the message that we really do have loftier ambitions than a top 10 finish. Is that too much to dream? Probably. Being more realistic, I'm afraid it isn't going to happen...
Mike O'Neill, Barcelona  (15/2/07)

Everton in play-offs

It may be over-simplistic but I`m looking at the battle for sixth place as a play-off between Everton, Reading, Portsmouth and Newcastle. My big money is on Everton but Moyes`s record in play-offs at Preston was appalling so I`m having a saver on Reading!
George Melling, Maghull  (15/2/07)

Re: Steven Lloyd and his

I received a lot of positive comments in the mailbag regarding my 'Sack Moyes' article, but you sir deserve a medal for that line. And on a family site as well...
John Holmes, York  (15/2/07)

Sensible approach!

Having read the John Holmes article and being a follower of the Blue cause from abroad, I would like to thank him for his sensible approach regarding David Moyes. There are three basic arguments against Moyes and I'll defend him on each:

Point 1 - Many of the fans have argued that we should have had some success by now, and it's the manager's fault that this hasn't happened, cause this is "his team" and not Smith's anymore... WRONG!! This ain't Moyes's team: his team would have Simic, Essien, Barton, Davis, B Ferguson, Parker, Emre, Dunn, Sissoko, Bellamy, Smith, Nugent and Keane ? who were seriously linked with a move to Everton ? along with Tommy G and Ferrari, players Moyes wanted to stay, and of course Wayne Rooney (I believe Moyes would have kept him for a few years, no matter what he says in his book). Now, those players, combined with the current squad (of course we wouldn't be needing them all!) would give US a cracking team ? Moyes's team! And more importantly, without Kilbane, Davies, McFadden, Beattie or Krøldrup.

Point 2 - "Dithering Dave". I honestly believe Moyes lacks the funds to be more effective in the transfer market. It is likely that he doesn't get approval from BK at the right time, or doesn't get it at all. Moyes doesn't waste any of the club's money, and we should give him the credit and respect for that. Moyes not only carries the "Dithering Dave" nickname but proudly wears it, never going public about the "failures" in the transfer market.

Point 3 - The kind of football, the defensive tactics and poor performances on the pitch. Who the hell is playing nice football in England these days? Compared to most of the Bolton and Portsmouth games I've seen, we have been much better and had so much more emotion on the pitch. The quality of football has declined in England and Europe; tactics have clearly overcome skill, so it's not an Everton or Moyes "thing". He has a more European style of play, which is less open than the English one, and favours results over performances, where keeping position and possession is more important than a movement down the wing.

I don't want to be emotional over it, but I for one have faith in the Moyesiah; I just wish... he had the necessary support, though.
Filipe Pinto, Porto, Portugal  (15/2/07)

Another good signing

I'm so relieved, and pleasantly surprised, to learn that Tim Howard has signed a 5-year deal. My fear was that, come the end of the season, given how well he'd served us so far, he'd have been back off down the M62 to Manchester.

It's another great bit of business by the club. While I've been impressed by some of David Moyes's earlier signings (eg, Cahill and Martyn) his more recent dealings are bearing great fruit ? Arteta, Lescott, Johnson... Let's hope any further spending funded in the close-season can also be carried off with similar aplomb.

Well done, Davey et al. Credit where credit is due, eh!
Chris Jones, Wakefield  (15/2/07)

Howard's Stay

Now that Howard has signed, does this mean he can play against Man Utd at Goodison? Having stated that the fee is 'undisclosed' I would guess that the monies Everton stood to gain from the Rooney Add-Ons with him having now signed a new contract and the possibility of Man Utd winning the league will now mean we don't get a further penny and no money has actually exchanged hands for Howard?

Well, if this is so then I don't think that this is a bad deal at all with all things considered. Howard looks to have his best years ahead of him and gives us a solid foundation. However I would be very dissapointed if Dickie is between the sticks come April 28th...
Steve Callaghan, Liverpool  (14/2/07)

Town

Been doing a lot of extra hours at work and decided on a day out with my son, Daniel. The missus dropped us off at the train station and we done the whole tourist bit, this obviously included the Albert Dock and ferry trip.

"Dad, the last time we came down here, you told me that this was going to be our new ground, is that it there"? (new arena).

"No Son, it was just another pipedream that us Evertonians have from time to time..."

"So when are we going to get a seat where we can see the game properly"?

"When the mighty Blues move to Kirkby son"

"Is that another of those pipedreams, dad"?

Out of the mouths of babes... etc
Mark Joseph, West Lancs  (14/2/07)

In re: John Holmes

Well put, John! Mike and Lyndon ? give this man a regular column here; I've loved every word he's written this week. He should probably be allowed 13 or 14 inches of space I reckon.
Steve Lloyd, Hawaii, USA  (14/2/07)

Tim Howard

Just read the piece about Tim Howard signing. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant to see him get signed on a permanent basis!

A decent keeper on his own is always worth an extra couple of points. With our back four currently looking so good, Howard has proved to be a great signing and getting him full-time is a boost.

At £3M, if true, we've got him at a snip as well. I was worried he was going to cost £5M plus and that this might have pushed him out of our range. The price, plus the fact that we've got his signing out of the way now, will take some of the pressure off during the summer.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (14/2/07)

Urban myths: Kirkby, stadium and transport

Unfortunately, I spent 6 years travelling between Kirkby and South Liverpool, using all the various transport modes. While there, I was also involved in planning and designing of the proposed tram system, so I am very familiar with its transport network and particularly how it connects with Liverpool. Transport Studies have been carried out to show that it is impossible for Kirkby to accommodate the influx of people of the magnitude required; that is why there is currently some urgency to get the trams back on track so to speak.

I can assure you that, even then Kirkby will not possess anything like the public transport capacity of Walton, it is simply demagraphically and logistically impossible. That is one of the main reasons why even Liverpool FC, with their massive out-of-town support, will not give up their more central location, run down or not.

Goodison Park has one of the fastest dispersal rates in the country... been to the Reebock lately? Arsenal moved because they are massively successful and they had thousands on waiting list for season tickets. Their turnover, even at Highbury, was nearly 3 times ours... wishful thinking by Eileen Roberts rather than credible comparison. Even then they didn't opt to move outside the M25; they stayed deep inside their catchment in one of the most awkward places in the world to secure space.

Liverpool is full of brownfield sites, all far closer to central major transport hubs than the peripheral Kirkby. Motorways play next to no part in modern stadium planning; the Americans tried it in the 50-70's they're now knocking them all down to move Downtown... but we're talking about going to Kirkby... it beggers belief?!
Tom Hughes, North Sea  (14/2/07)

It's all relative

While TW was offline for maintenance, I ventured into the mailbags of a few clubs and found they were almost on a par with ours. (Nothing like a bit of suckholing to get started hey?) Despite their clubs' huge success over the past 10 years, the United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea boards have their own compliment of grizzlers, some are close but not quite of the same standard as our own.

Their players, managers and owners come in for a hammering about perceived weaknesses and I can only imagine the literary slaughter should one of them fail to win a trophy or a European spot. Some credit to Man Utd fans who in general are very complimentary about Tim Howard and wished him well for the future. I would like to think we would be as magnanimous when Richard Wright moves on.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (15/2/07)

But it's the wrong tune anyway!

Peter Fearon makes the same mistake as so many other posters on the stadium issue. If Everton had the resources to build their own stadium, all kinds of options would come into play. But the sad fact is we don't. We aint got the readies. Therefore, in the absence of a sugar daddy or a couple of American kerb crawlers, we have to find somebody else to build it for us.

As has been said before, Tescos aint going anywhere else but Kirkby. That's where they want their superstore because there is minimal competition and a potential large supply of customers in the town. So that is where the stadium will go unless we withdraw from the scheme all together. Dream on,there is no chance of funding 'our' own stadium and beggars have to take what's on offer unless the club is prepared to risk withering away.I don't feel any happier about this than anybody else but we have to live in the tough old real world of the modern game.
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (14/2/07)

Howard Good Signing

The Top 4 will probably always be the Top 4 so personally I feel Everton are in the second tier of the Premiership. Everton should be chasing down the 5th and 6th places. Bolton and Portsmouth are small clubs currently enjoying great seasons.

The Top 4 aside, Everton are a big club along with Spurs, Newcastle and Man City. We should be competing against them to finish in a Euro place. Currently Everton are above Spurs, Newcastle & Man City so I guess Moyes is doing a good job.
John Cottee, Romford  (14/2/07)

Scuse me, Biggles

Actually, the Sopwith Camel was a WW1 single seater Scout/fighter powered by 140 hp Clerget 9Bf Rotary engine and armed with twin 303 Vickers machine guns... difficult to handle but deadly (Sounds like AJ on a good day)

But you are right Kirkby is not on the other side of the World - but it might be the beginning of the end of ours.

On the other hand it might be the best thing that has ever happened to the club - nobody knows, which is why I can't make my mind up even though I've read reams and reams of pro and against Kirkby veiws and propaganda - I'm just not sure and I can see good points for and against.

Which brings me to MBE. I'm not usually bothered when MBE has a go at the 'loud of noise little of thought brigade' I do it myself sometimes (when Micheal lets me - no hard feelings it was a bit OTT)

My position is; I'll listen and then argue with any reasonable well thought out argument based upon an honest viewpoint and facts to back the argument up. I hate it when supporters stoop to daft conspiracy theory and bile soaked mud slinging predjudice fuelled rhetoric, in fact it gets right on my nads, which is why at times I've over-reacted.

Call Moyes a crap manager because he seems 'tactically challenged' at times, Call him crap because you think his team plays defensive mind numbing football, call him crap because he drops your favourite player; but leave out all this shite about him being a 'fraud' 'hated by all at the club' 'hates skillful players' If you are going to come up with guff like that, quote your sources why don't you?

MBE went well OTT with his intro to his piece methinks and even though I struggled to interpret the drawings - he'd sold me on the 'fact' that Goodison could not be re-developed on the present site without encroaching on other property with hardly any increase in capacity.

I'm glad that some on this site are more knowledgeable than me about architecture and pointed out the error of believing even the most well argued well supported point - if there is a credible well argued alternative point of view that blows the other one sky high.

I feel let down - To quote The Who - 'I won't get fooled again'
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (14/2/07)

Kenwright / Stanley Park

The abuse directed at Bill Kenwright on this board is both sad and mystifying. This guy just doesn't have mega-millions to spray around and I've got to say I'd rather have our club under Bill than owned by neo-cons looking to make a packet from their franchise.

As for the stadium, please can anyone tell me why we can't do what Liverpool have done. If they can con the city council into releasing acres of Stanley Park why can't we?
Col Nolan, Liverpool  (14/2/07)

John Holmes ? Fantastic

What ever way you wish to take it, the article by John Holmes was a fine read. It started me thinking about a couple of things as I sun myself while sipping a Pina Colada with my new Thai bride...

The four or five best players who have pulled on an Everton jersey in the past 10 years were all Walter Smith signings in my opinion. Stubbs, Gravesen and Dacourt were and some still are quality players. Marco Matteratzi is a World Cup winner and you don't get to represent Italy at that level if you are a Krøldrup type, do you? My Number 1 Everton player since the 80s is Andre Kanchelskis. Without a shadow of a doubt the finest edge-of-your seat player ever. [Anfield Nov 1995 anyone?]

I think John Holmes opens up the old debate of who is the better manager: Smith or Moyes. Trying to judge Moyes against Smith is like saying Robert Deniro is a better gangster than Jimmy Cagney. Deniro must be the best ? he earned the most money didn't he? It's very hard to make a sensible arguement for one or the other when we are dealing with men from different eras.

Every time I hear the nonsense of Moyes being far better than Smith, I just smile. Without using statistics can anyone really say if:

• Joe Royle was better than Graham Sharp?
• Alan Ball was better than Peter Reid?
• Alex Young better than Trevor Steven?
• Bob Latchford was better than Gary Lineker?
• Was Mohamed Ali better than Joe Louis?

It can't be done; never has, never will... so stop it please, all of you who persist with it.

As for that being me in The Beano in an earlier post I dont think so mate. I was a Dandy man myself. My favourites where always Corky the Cat and Desperate Dave.

Silly me... I mean Desperate Dan, don't I?
Tony Marsh, Sunny Barbados  (13/2/07)

Old Blue Eyes sings out of tune

I read MBE?s long diatribe about the stadium proposals to the bitter end, ignoring where I could all the acid and gratuitously offensive asides about those of us who love Goodison Park and are sceptical about the wisdom of a move outside Liverpool to the exurban wastelands of Kirkby. We are mere sentimentalists who have a problem with words as long as marmalade, whatever that means.

Along the way, he ignores some key facts. The most important is that while it may be impossible to build a new stadium within the precise footprint of Goodison Park, it would be quite possible to build a new stadium very close by if the council would start co-operating.

There are numerous potential plans and I doubt that all have been thoroughly looked into. One is to re-route Walton Lane traffic along Priory Road and Spellow Lane, leaving the land in between and part of the north end of Stanley Park on which to build a stadium.

There are also three other potential green-field sites within walking distance of Goodison within Walton and Clubmoor. Instead, there is an overpowering movement to suck us out to Kirkby to become the anchor store at a shopping mall. If that suits MBE, he appears about to be on course to get his wish. I seem to remember he was one of those who once thought the sun shone out of Walter Smith?s behind and those of us who didn?t were treated then to the same epithets as opponents of the move to Kirkby are now.
Peter Fearon, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Thanks! Andre

Firstly, not a decidedly long piece, but upon hearing the news of Andre Kanchelskis. I thought he deserved my credit.

True, he was only with us a season and a half, but from the moment his name was mentioned with Everton, i was excited.

In true Everton fashion, he nearly never made it, but once he had, he provided me with some of the happiest moments of the 90's (away from all that britrock lark etc).

His frightening pace, his ease for going past defenders, followed by a rocket of a shot which we witnessed 16 times in his only full season with us (a pretty impressive statistic for a midfielder in the mid 90's).

Who can forget his hat-trick away at Wednesday in a 5-2 win? Cutting in from the left touchline and belting it in from 30 yards against Leeds, and unfogettably, his 2 goals at the kop end against the shite. A game I had to listen to on the radio, then enjoy later on Match of the Day.

So cheers Andre, for making this blue reflect happily on your time with us, you were a joy to watch.
Brian Harrison, Maghull  (13/2/07)

Sopwith bloody Camels?

So, Tom Hughes thinks the Sopwith Camel was an airliner. He also seems to think Kirkby is at the end of the M57. Oh Dear!

It is not about the 'age' of a Stadium, Tom. The Bernebau is old. Old Trafford is old. It is not about the view that supporters may or may not have either, unfortunately. Stadiums now have to earn money ? other than merely the gate receipts for home games ? if a club has any pretensions to join the big league.

Highbury was a perfectly adequate stadium from which to watch football, with loads of history and tradition. But Arsenal realized that in the modern football world it could never provide what the club needed so they built the Emirates. Arsenal, in my humble opinion, are the best managed club in the country; from a fanbase no bigger than ours they have built a club which seems to be destined for a permanent place in the top echelon. So I would be perfectly happy to follow their example.

There is no room to develop Goodison and little prospect of Everton ever having the resources to decide where THEY want a new stadium to be. Kirkby is not on the other side of the Urals and it just so happens that everybody I know in Kirkby just happens to be an Evertonian. Kirkby is well within the Everton sphere of influence, it is just as much a part of the 'scouse' culture as Walton which, by the way, just happens to be about 3 miles from Everton! The site of the proposed new stadium is about the same distance from Goodison.

In discussing transport problems, when was the last time you tried to get away from Goodison after a match? It can take an hour from the final whistle to getting out of the car park. Unless you take a chance of parking up some side street and end up wating two hours for the police to arrive to give you a crime number for the Insurance Company.

Everton deserve more than that and we as supporters deserve more than that. Everton deserve a chance to compete at the highest levels; if Tesco is the only benefactor who can offer us a chance of doing that then we have to take it. It's Kirkby mate... not Timbuctou!

By the way, the Sopwith Camel was a two seater trainer... not an airliner!
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (13/2/07)

Sack Moyes

When reading the article from John Holmes, I found myself thinking 'Is this guy being serious?'. He obviously has a negative attitude to being an Everton supporter to revel in the relgation battles he gloats about and desperately wants a return to. Do us a favour mate, try and get your seat back in the Kop instead of wasting time on other club's websites. Kopites are gobshites. The End.
Brian Harrison, Maghull  (13/2/07)

Dribble!

John Holmes's article neither made me laugh or appreciate his irony. In fact, by the end, I felt like John was more like a court jester trying to talk politics while juggling flamed batons ? it just doesn't work.

And thank you the other John (Middleton) for your insight comments, I'm sure your lack of understanding of football explains the verbal excrement you wrote. You're the type of man who can watch Brazil, and complain about the lack of defensive play! What I said was about ideals and concepts, not that Wigan are any good. But again their approach was refreshing, showing that teams can complete against the top sides without resorting to negative dribble ? á la Moyes whole stint as Everton boss!

The best read of the day was Michael response to Kevin Flain ? keep posting, Mikey, that was great! Or am I trying to be funny and ironic???
Luq Yussef, London  (13/2/07)

Trouble with lust

Interesting to see how many Evertonians share John Holmes`s view that Moyes is doing a great job. Frankly, the football he dishes up as well as the man himself bores the arse off me but I suppose I still lust after headier times. Trouble is, like other lusts, it calls for a long memory!
Harry Meek, Worcester  (13/2/07)

Gary Kruger

Just a small point, Gary: you wonder about no singing or chanting. You will never have it while we abandon trying to play skillful football. The contrast of the first and second halves on Saturday was proof of that: we are no good at hoofball, and the man responsible for it is Davey Moyes.

Just a quick word to Michael: I agree 100% with you about MBE, he sounds to me like Billy Liar's drinking partner ? or maybe something more sinister... GFE!
Colin Potter, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Sack Moyes???

Having lived through the triumphs and pains of the sixties to now, I think Davie has done an outstanding job as a manager with a small squad and limited funds. You have all criticized the style of football but besides Spurs I have not seen a team play better than us other than the top three.

The fault LIES WITH THE BOARD! They supply the funds for the manager to buy. Bad signings you say ? I have seen bad signings from every football manager in the last forty years. Defensive tactics ? I bet Leeds fans were wishing they were too defensive. There have been many mistakes made by Everton Football Club since that great night in Rotterdam in 1985, but having David Moyes as our manager is not one of them.
John Gorham, Scottsdale, AZ, USA  (13/2/07)

Moyes Out!

I agree with John Holmes. Any manager that spends well less than £15 million bringing good young players like of Cahill, Arteta, Lescott and Johnson to the club is not in the Everton tradition we have cultivated for the last 15 years. He should go at once!
Richard Watts, London  (13/2/07)

Gemmill

I used to think Scott Gemmill was the worst player to wear an Everton shirt... until I saw Simon Davies. And who signed him? ? Oh yes, David Moyes.
Mick Wrende, Macclesfield  (13/2/07)

Killed for a tenner

Page 9 of The Beano, I mean The Sun today read as follows:

A dad was tortured and murdered because he failed to pay back £10 to regulars at his local. TONY MARSH 42, was battered at his home by three fellow drinkers after failing to return cash and a borrowed mobile. Neighbours heard the killers shout, we will break his arms and legs.

So... is this the Top Man himself?!?
Gary Norman, alsager,stoke on trent  (13/2/07)

Season Ticket Prices

Just a response to John Green about ticket prices. The 2006-07 Park End ticket was £573. It was only frozen at £494 for existing season ticket holders who renewed before midnight on the last game of the season. That was so the club would have guaranteed income in the bag late May 06 to get AJ. A price worth paying I say.

The 2007-08 Park End ticket price for everybody will go up but that's the price of progress ? I reckon they will be a tenner or so above the £600 mark. If we want players like Fernandes and Howard to stay, we have to do our bit. Unlike Blackburn I doubt Everton will use any increased income from TV to subsidise the Everton fan ? that will go straight into Bully's arse pocket and as per usual the players' car park.

Anyway, I think most people can afford it ? just have one less Yorkie and pint of piss every game and you'll break even. Also ? I hate some of the negative football but face the facts we are doing well ? Summer 2007 is a vital point in our history. He's had 5 years and largely its been progressive ? defensively anyway. The club was on its knees 5 years ago ? now we are at least able to slump against our zimmer with the best of the rest. Gnome FC ? Come on!!!
Mike Townley, Garston  (13/2/07)

Tesco Partnership Closer than Kirkby

I posted a short time ago about the growing rumours of Tesco building a huge store as part of the Everton area redevelopment just down the road at Great Homer Street. Has anyone thought about that area being a site suitable for building a new stadium that stays within walking distance of Goodison Park never mind within city limits?

A quick look at Google Earth or similar show a chunk of land big enough dependent on the footprint for shops and housing knowing a lot of the existing stuff is getting flattened and the transport access is as it is right now. Maybe no free handouts from the council but surely I am not the only one to think of this?
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (13/2/07)

Plonkers ? Pot, Kettle... Black!!

I'm almost embarrassed to see how many fellow Evertonians took the best letter of recent times from John Holmes in the wrong context.

Anyone criticising Moyesy needs to get a large slice of perspective by reading this article and see that we have moved forward under Moyes and consider what base for the future we would have if we were in the Championship now??

In the words of another, In Moyes we Trust, in Kenwright we don't...
Kevin Flain, Reading  (13/2/07)

Andy van der see yer later

Firstly, what a fantastic article 'Sack Moyes' is. Those who didn't get it, wake up!! It is about time someone really emphasized the change that has been made in the last 10 years for the better. The names Gemill, Ginola, Gazza, Bakayoko to name a few really show what a relief it is to be pushing for a realistic European place for the third time in 6 years.

On a completely different note, I think it is very rich coming from AvdM to threaten to leave this club after the amount of support the fans give him. Frankly, he isn't good enough for our side and when, in the summer, we sign a true winger, he will sit on the bench every week.

He is one of those players who, week-in week-out, you really want to succeed, but why? I reckon he is on £20,000 a week at least since the 2005 summer. That by my calculations is £1,604,000 since arriving. Add to that £2M in the fee and that is over £3.6M spent on a player who hasn't scored, and from my recollection has set up only 3 or 4 goals in his spell.

He can piss off back to Italy now if he wants!
Charlie Gofton, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

John Holmes

The fans slating John Holmes, are obviously Moyes apologists. But don't they realise he is one off them? ? and was just having a dig at people like me who think Moyes should be off at the end of the season!
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (13/2/07)

Irony

Readers of this site are due a large dose of irony tablets!!! Great article, John!
Kristy Smith, Crosby  (13/2/07)

Great piece, John Holmes!

... just a pity that it evidently has gone way, WAY over the heads of a couple of readers.

And Michael... whilst I agree with you that MBE over at Blue Kipper could benefit from having two-thirds of any comment piece he writes ending up on the cutting room floor, you can't use that as an excuse to dismiss out of hand his core message on the flawed re-development plans for Goodison Park. He offers very strong counter-arguments as to why the feasibility study promoted on here is pretty much a non-starter, however difficult that is for some to swallow.
Art Greeth, Portugal  (13/2/07)

Humour By-pass!

Methinks some of early responders to the John Holmes piece have had a humour by-pass. If I was Mickey Blue Eyes, I`d probably say they were thick but we have more respect on this site!
Kevin Orchard, Prenton  (13/2/07)

Sack Moyes

Erm... am I the only one who got that this article was tongue in cheek? Quite good too, regardless of your opinion of Moyes
Declan Critchley, Dublin, Ireland  (13/2/07)

Season Tickets

It's time to start thinking about the cost of supporting the Blues in 2007-08. Don't believe me? Look at page 26 of the Blackburn programme.

As a Park End season ticketholder I'm curious to know when and why the Park End became the most prestigious seat in the house. I'd always thought that the Park End and Gwladys Street tickets were about the same price but we're about to be hit by the sneakiest of price hikes which was hidden under the price freeze of last year. No doubt Everton will deny this but let the facts speak for themselves:

2002-03 £355
2003-04 £373
2004-05 £457
2005-06 £494
2006-07 £494
2007-08 £573 + increase

It isn't as if the Park End's facilities are superior ? they aren't. We're squashed in, the floor is a death-trap in the wet, and we haven't even got a scoreboard or a clock to distract us. Add to that the scrum to get round the corner into Goodison Road at the end of the match and the little maggot of a jobsworth who won't let you cut through to the enclosure and you have to question why are we paying more than everybody else?

I'm not aware that Everton has explained the basis for hiking up the price of our season tickets. I just wondered whether there are other Park Enders who have similar feelings.
John Green, Lichfield  (13/2/07)

Glad to be a ToffeeWebber!

I have written to that`other` site to tell them but I have NEVER read such a patronising and self-opinionated load of bollox as the MBE diatribe on the `stadium situation`! Not even Doddy has ever got up my nose as that piece did ? makes me glad to be a ToffeeWebber!
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (13/2/07)

MBE

Michael. I have to agree with you on your comments regards MBE. His style of writing attempts to disguise the point he is attempting to put across, which is mainly his point of view and not a balanced perspective.

Attempting to diguise what HE thinks is right for Eveerton by padding it out with literary psuedo accademia is quite frankly boring. I found the first couple of paragraphs condecending to say the least, we all have our opinions on the ground move and I personally feel that the club will do what it wants regardless of what the majority of the fans think.

The BlueKipper site to my mind is too close to EFC to be independent, and it makes me wonder from whose songsheet MBE is singing from.
Dave Lynch, Merseyside  (13/2/07)

Sack Moyes by John Holmes

I hope people realise your sarcasm Mr Holmes :-) I would just like to say, thank you, for pointing out to all those people who keep calling for the head of the Ginger Messiah how bad things used to be.

The "Good Old Days" ... What ? "dogs of war"? What was so good about kicking players instead of the ball? Long live Moyes and thanks again Mr Holmes for making me laugh.
Adam Derbyshire, Chester  (13/2/07)

Time for a clear out?

I see your Squad page is showing Wright, Stubbs, Pistone, Carsley, McFadden and Ruddy all out of contract at the end of this season. Whilst I can`t see the first four named getting much more time here, I think you have carried stories earlier in the season saying that Faddy and Ruddy had signed new deals. Can you confirm, please? No doubt Boyle and Vidarsson will be on their way, though.
Ben Smith, Ruthin  (13/2/07)

The fans are not doing their job

I have read some articles recently that have utterly astounded me. Some fans want to go back to football under Howard and Kendall, and clearly don?t mind if Everton are in a relegation dogfight again! I just don?t understand how you can go against David Moyes for what he?s done for Everton football club.

Our fans need to understand the limitations that he has had to work under. He has found so many good players and made them into excellent acquisitions through great coaching and his fantastic scouting ability. Possibly the best findings are yet to be fully realised, with Arteta and Lescott playing superbly so far this season.

Europe looks to also be on the horizon and although the Uefa Cup won?t bring money, it will be something to look forward to for the fans and attract players of a higher quality to push us nearer to the top four. However, the top four seem to be financially unreachable as the current European format stands. The ?cartel? of clubs competing annually in the farce of the Champions League seems to attract more money every year, and no matter how much Moyes does, this gap will continue to widen over the coming years.

On a lighter note, why does no one sing and chant in the stadium anymore? This is one of my favourite things about going to Goodison, and the roar that accompanies the action is so incredible it just makes ya heart go oooohhh?...We as Everton fans can make the difference to our experience when we go to home games and away games.

We all know we are some of the most passionate supporters in the country, but yet we let Pompey fans get the credit, and then let the away fans outsing us on our home turf. So, please don?t blame Moyes when he's just doing his job because, at the moment, Everton fans aren?t doing theirs.
Gary Kruger, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Sack Moyes

Hahaha very funny. The line about unearthing gems like Bakayoko was the funniest in this wind-up artcle.
Paul Green, London  (13/2/07)

Hobson's Choice

As unpalatable as it may be at the moment, the whole stadium fiasco with Tesco's has all the markings of a Hobson's Choice: take what's on offer or nothing at all.

Liverpool City Council seem to want nothing to do with us, and we have snubbed other local councils to go the Kirkby route. The least solid route is the one we have gone with and if it falls through I can't see the other councils being in a hurry to re-offer us their deals.

Right now, we don't have a pot to piss in. It's common knowledge and yet there doesn't seem to be any other investor out there bar Tesco's. It's a sad reflection that they are still only proposing to possibly finance the building of a new stadium and the Board has gone along with it.

The Goodison for Ever-ton plan was dismissed by the club but, given how we have been treated by Liverpool City Council, you would have to wonder if planning permission would ever have been granted.

We can argue and debate all we want right now folks, but at the moment, if we want a new stadium I think this is the only way forward we have.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin, Ireland  (13/2/07)

Re: Sack Moyes!!

Great Article!! About time this was said. I am fed up of these idiots moaning about the Moyes. In Moyes I Trust. Kenwright I don't!!
David Marsden, London  (13/2/07)

Gospel according to MBE

He's patently misguiding people! Or at least he is in his assertion that redevelopment cannot be achieved within the current footprint, and certainly so if the Bullens Road is allowed to be bridged (which is not without president and certainly not an unrealistic option).

I have seen a few schemes generated to fill the existing site, all worked from actual site plans (not ordinance survey maps or Google-earth pics) to achieve 50k+ seats. Any amateur armed with a sight-line modeller and real site plans can do the same in minutes. GFE got professionals to produce a concept, and financial figures to back it up, an amazing undertaking.

In actual fact, the result wasn't the most efficient use of space, but the margins are tight and it should be obvious to anybody that there is much scope for refinement to achieve the target capacity even within their generic scheme. MBE refuses to see that in his quest to Myth bust and desperation to dismiss the GFE (of whom I'm not one I should add)!!! His motives are more personal or even political as opposed to practical.

Also, to say that Tesco is our only option surprises me in the current climate. Many more clubs have redeveloped their stadia completely than have moved. Most have been "smaller" than us. Some clubs appear to have investors lining up. Just because our board have failed to acquire or achieve similar points to their failings rather than these opportunities not being out there.
Tom Hughes, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Total Football always wins does it

Another tiresome tirade from Luq, with the usual rubbish. Using the words "Should have won", "if it weren't for" and "were very fortunate" when talking about Wigan, as back-up for another attack on Moyes shows cluelessness in my opinion, something you are very quick to shower on a lot of other fans if they don't side with you/Marsh.

Using your same words, Everton should have won 8 more pens this year, if it weren't for the refs we would have 15 or so more points and we would be fortunate to be 6 points behind Chelsea. But if we ain't passing the ball 93 times before each attempt, its pointless right?

Did this "total football" get Wigan anything at the Emirates? Did it get them anything in their recent eight-game losing streak? will it get them anywhere when they are away to Scunthorpe next year? No. You seem to have the "white men can't jump" thinking, preferring to look good and lose, rather than look bad and win. We would all like to see the flowing football, but thanks anyway, I'll take the 1-0 win over the 3-2 defeat every time.

Some of your hits on Moyes have been both baffling and amusing ("Moyes hates flair players" and criticising him for buying VdM, while later commending yourself for having the "foresight" to see the value he has after a half-decent game were both personal favorites) but it's getting extremely boring at this stage. Change the record, come up with some new material or you'll go the way of Dutch I fear. Which would be a pity because you do make me laugh... sometimes.
John Middleton, Dublin, Ireland  (13/2/07)

Re: Sack Moyes

Just read that article and have to say, I laughed. Nice job.

Frankly I do not want Everton to resort to the days of old battling relegation. That to me is not excitement that was stress. Gemill? Ward? Ginola? Better than Arteta? VDM? Fernandes? I dont think so.

In Moyes's four years at the helm of the only thing outside my wife that I truly love he has had one real year of any financial backing, and has brought in quality. He has done the grinding and got us results, and with his latest purchases (or loan-to-buy) we are starting to develop a side that can play good passing football. The first half against Blackburn proves that. I am 25, and am enjoying Everton Football Club today more then I ever have.
Martin Roberts, Merseyside  (13/2/07)

Ground Move

Two simple points :

1. Why did Liverpool say they would move no further than Stanley Park? WHY? Will someone answer that.
   
   
2. Kenwright said he would put his reputation on the line over the move to the King's Dock and look what happened. A pathetic disaster. But thank god it all collapsed before we were in the middle of everything.

Do we need a better WARNING SIGN than that? No one should back a ground move while Kenwright's in charge. HE HIMSELF HAS SHOWN WHY!
Ged Dwyer, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Sack Moyes Article ? The Men In White Coats Are Co

I only realised for sure that this article was a spoof when I got to the line "a gem like Nyarko".

Only a kopite with too much time on his hands would lament The People's Club's decision to abandon the excitement of relegation fights for the boredom of battling for European qualification.

One thing they said was true though, Moyes really is no Walter ? and every day I'm thankful for it.
Trevor Hanlon, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

In response to John Holmes

Can I just say first of all, I do love this website. As a way for an exiled blue to keep in touch with the club its the best site anywhere. BUT, I am sick to the back teeth of some of the anti-Moyes sentiments written on here. Thank God for John Holmes. For those people with ultra short memories, think back to the days gone by. Negative? How about playing a team with SIX central defenders in it (and a full back up front!) Doesn't know how to handle young players? Anyone remember the laughing on the bus incident?

We've had our ups and downs with Moyes, but overall we ARE heading in the right direction. The team of aged and overpaid mercenaries has been replaced by a younger hungrier team. He has on the whole bought shrewdly (Cahill for a couple of million?!) and this team genuinely seems hungry, willing to play for the shirt with pride and more importantly play for each other. How many times have we heard people both from within and outside the club commenting on the special team spirit?

Maybe I'm naive having only been present for five high quality performances, but I honestly think we are only four top quality players away from being a special team. A pacy right winger, a thrusting young left back, big strong midfielder and a striker and we're there.(Can we please make it David Nugent ? future world class AND a blue).

Give Moyes some time ? we ARE getting there!
Alistair Ford, London  (13/2/07)

The Golden Goose? Eaten by the Sly Foxes

Dick, the increased TV revenue has sod all to do with ticket prices. And Sky and their distributors worldwide (my subs are going up from next season) couldn't give a shit whether the stadium is packed to the rafters or a JJB stadium.

And don't assume this 'windfall' is going to the clubs. Already, John Terry finalising his £150k per week BASIC wage. Ronaldo demanding £160k a week BASIC?

That extra money will soon disappear for a lot of the bigger clubs. Guess we're all about to find out who the mercenaries really are, now they will need to pay the agents themselves...
Matt Traynor, Singapore  (13/2/07)

Appeal

Watching the local TV football show here in Dubai gives a good insight as to how Everton are perceived by others.

Whilst discussing the DIC / LFC falling out, the question was raised "Who next? Who do you see as attractive to potential overseas buyers?". The answers, without hesitation; "Newcastle, Everton, possibly Spurs. Big names, 35,000+ each week....."

The pundits are ex-pros from the English game but express their, often well informed, views openly and without bias. So it would seem we are up there in terms of appeal and you would hope that this is being exploited. Fox Sport also broadcasts Everton TV three times a week and trumpets us as one of the 'oldest, most prestigeuos names in English football'. True, as far as fanbase goes, we are way behind the Top Four but there must be something to build on...
Ray Nickson, Dubai, UAE  (13/2/07)

RE: John Holmes / Sack Moyes

Well done fella - that was the best wind up we've had in a while. Great work. Either that or you've been supping Grandma's medicine?
John Coyne, Manchester  (13/2/07)

Re: Sack Moyes

I just spat my cornflakes over my computer screen. Cheers, I was enjoying those.

ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!!

Hankering for the days of Gemmill, Farrelly, Ward and Tiler. Jesus man, get a grip. I'm two years older than you so haven't seen that much more of Everton, but I'll tell you this; what you have written there, is the most insane rambling I have ever had the misfortune to lay my poor, poor eyes upon. I see some incredibly negative articles on here but that takes the biscuit.

I don't even have the strength to give examples, but I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your withered soul.
Richard Osborne, Birmingham  (13/2/07)

Redevelop Goodison

Further to Eileen Roberts's response to my earlier post, the point I was trying to make is why should we throw away part of our history and the history of the city when even Mr Wyness has said that staying at Goodison is still an option? Surely staying at a refurbished stadium utilising the space still availible in Stanley Park and possibly the Tescos, retail park and a joint venture between the two clubs to create a sports village, which would be of benefit to the city and to Everton and Liverpool without actually sharing a stadium?
Arthur Jones, Lliverpool  (13/2/07)

The Prat who wrote "Sack Moyes"

I'd just like to say the Person who wrote the Sack Moyes article is the biggest prat and talks absoloute crap. The reason every saturday used to be nail-biting was because we where in a relegation fight season after season. So now, because we are only pushing for a European place you want Moyes sacked? what a joke!
Lee Murphy, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Just a point from safety

By the end of this month, we shall have claimed the point needed for ultimate safety ? probably at Watford ? and Davey can start planning for next season. He`ll say "We can`t hope to compete with the big boys - Bolton, Reading, Portsmouth and Newcatle - and there`s no money in the Uefa Cup anyway. Tenth is what we budgeted for and I`ve delivered yet again!"

Cynical? You bet... but I shalln`t be far out, you`ll see!
Morton Fisher, Wirral  (13/2/07)

In Reply to John Holmes wish to Sack Moyes.

John, Sack David Moyes? Four words for you friend: "You are a plonker!"
Steve Claringbold, Carlisle  (13/2/07)

In response to Mr Holmes

Is this a tounge-in-cheek article?? Is it sarcastic?? I don't know about anyone else but I cannot even find the words to start a reply to that nonsense. All I will say is that I think that Materazzi is a world cup winner isn't he?

We now look like a team that is in a position to firstly fight out for a place in the Uefa cup which will open up a new level of player attraction (hopefully!!). Then we can push on to CL qualification AGAIN, we've done it once, we can do it again! Do you really think that under Walter we would have even looked like qualifing??

I am 26 so I am from the same generation as Mr Holmes but I really don't know how someone can have such a differing opinion to myself. Yes, people are for or against Moyes or even sitting on the fence but we must all agree that being in the top half of the table fighting for 5th-8th place is a vast improvement of years gone by and providing that this is a constant next year as well then things are looking up. I'm not so dillusional to say that we cannot improve but to sack Moyes would be suicidle.

Paul Smith, West Sussex  (13/2/07)

A desparate plea!

I have just read on the official website that the game at Watford is sold out. I don't know if this is approriate but if anybody has two tickets and ends up unable to go, could they contact me via Toffeeweb (I'll keep checking the mailbag up to the day).

I live 5 minutes walk from Vicarage Road and the team bus will pass right past my door (we'll be hanging the scarves out the window ? if any of you pass by give us a wave).

The thought of not going, or at least, having to sit sorrounded by yellow shirts, doesn't excite me that much. I'll probably get thrown out for celebrating AJ's first hat-trick of the season (I nearly did last time we played there for screaming at Stephen Hughes's performance — for very different reasons though!). Thanks. COYB!
Gary Joyce, Watford  (13/2/07)

Harsh Reality

I for one have felt the compelling need to rail against the proposals for a period of 'exclusivity' with Knowsley Borough Council and Tesco regarding the Kirkby project. I agree with the sentimentality of the Goodison for Ever-ton campaign, the desire to preserve our birthright as a founding league member from the city of Liverpool, and the heritage that goes with a stadium that has been at the core of our identity.

The takeover shennanigans across the park have undoubtedly heightened the anxiety of our own supporters; what they do should have little impact on our own progress, but the David-and-Golliath scenario is already becoming apparent in the psyche.

Having just read the analysis of the stadium situation by Mickey Blue Eyes, it would appear that the Kirkby option is probably the only conceivable one that is available to us in our present administrative and economic state. I am aware that MBE has the ear of Buster Wyness, but what resonates from his comments are that, without the support of Liverpool City Council, a major financial benefactor or any other conceivable plan, then we have to work with what is available. If Terry Leahy wasn't an Evertonian would the Tesco deal even be on the cards?

Tesco, being the global animal that it is in terms of consumer spending, will undoubtedly seek out new commercial partners, untapped revenue streams and potential real estate for its superstores, a Tesco stadium naming rights being the icing on the cake for its Knowsley development. We can move onwards into a brave new world with all the risks that this will entail or standstill and continue to tread the dog-shite-strewn streets around Goodison, worrying about the future of our match-day haunts...
Peter Laing, Liverpool  (13/2/07)

Golden Goose and all that

Clubs are bought by the rich, the very rich and the super rich ? resulting in the same uneven yet much more expensive playing field. Expecting a solid return on investment, the new owners will find that even die-hard supporters may not be willing or able to afford exhorbitant costs for lopsided competition.

Regardless of how much skill is on display, a half-empty stadium does not make for good TV viewing. I am surprised and disappointed that increased TV revenue did not come with a stipulation that for the life of the deal entry fees would be put on hold.

With the top four winning all available honours and likely to do so for the foreseeable future and faced with rising costs how long is it before the average fan weighs up his allegiance to the game? Football authorities and their TV sponsors would be advised to recognise this danger and act before the trickle becomes a stampede.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (13/2/07)

Ok, Goodison Park is old...

It has lots of obstructed views, and some of the concourse areas are a bit tight... and oh yes, there's the odd wooden floor. However, if you want to be completely objective don't forget it offers the best average viewing distances of any 35,000+ stadium in this country, it offers a greater variety of viewing angles and elevations than almost any ground in this country. It can be an atmospheric place, possessing a rich character. It is the site of the world's first purpose built footy stadium... (there can only ever be one of those by the way, incase you missed a word in that sentence). Not the actual original stadium though Eileen Roberts, so you needn't worry about your Sopwith Camel analogies.

Do we need better facilities.....? Well, probably yes, certainly long-term! But, we're not playing footy in anything like the ramshackle Ayresome, Roker, Dell, Baseball grounds that some people are trying to paint, so let's not hit the panic button just yet, nor be afraid to offend supermarket chains who appear to have our best interests at heart.

Fundamentally, deserting the city in a two-team town is tantamount to throwing the towel in IMO. It also flies in the face of practically all basic stadium planning theory, even if it might be much easier for Eileen Roberts of Runcorn to scoot up the expressway for her footy fix (at least it will appear to be 'til you get to the end of the M57 and you find half of Liverpool trying to take the same slip road). There are always other options... and I have a feeling there will be even more in the future.
Tom Hughes, Liverpool  (12/2/07)

Conspiracy theorist ? moi?

Personally, I don`t think there`s much doubt that Fernandes is being lined up as a replacement for Arteta rather than as someone to play alongside him. The timing of the release of news that Mikey is wanted `at home` and the loan signing of the Iranian-controlled Fernandes is far too co-incidental.

Of course, the transfer will be at the player`s request with Bill spending 25 hours a day trying to talk him out of it, but it will happen, you see! And to think I used to believe in conspiracy theories!
Alan Woodhead, Sutton Coldfield  (12/2/07)

Tescos have done it before

While I would be so sad to see Everton move from Goodison, here is just a little thought on the Stadium business. Is there really a choice other than the Tesco merger if a new venue is to be achieved? And does anybody really think that this Board are at all interested in what the supporters think? They are fooling themselves if they do: it is busines first, last and forever. At present and in the foreseeable future to be absolutely frank realistic, all answeres are "No."

As a little consolation it maybe worth looking at Warrington Rugby LFC. Tesco built them a stadium, addmitedly on a smaller scale (14,500 capacity). By rugby standards, it is excellent. The club named it themselves, Haliwell Jones, so sponsorship was still possible, and everyone seems happy. One big difference? It was built on the fringe of the Town Centre. But it's a similar situation to consider and compare.
Jim Martyn, Runcorn  (12/2/07)

Outsourcing and In house

From personal experience; I am an IT consultant with nearly 20 year's experience, outsourcing is nothing more than a business trend that comes and goes, similar to any other business proposal clever accounting can make in housing appear to be a loss and outsourcing to be a great quick win. Unfortunately, the process is cyclical and repeats ad infinitum with the instant gratification to shareholders and the accountants but ALWAYS at the loss of wealth of experience in staff lost and quality to the end customer.

I won't bother pointing out the quality is atrocious as it's no surprise and I won't defend short-term pocket stuffing. A great similar example was a well known high street bank I worked for whose top man decided to earn himself a massive performance bonus by saving the bank a fortune ? only thing is the decision was to close a considerable amount of that bank's branches. He got his bonus then the next year the bank at great expense had to back pedal and spend a similar amount again to reopen those branches.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (12/2/07)

Goodison

In response to Arthur Jones... would you want to fly to Majorca in the first purpose-built airliner? I wouldn't because it would not be fit for purpose in the modern world. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not (and actually I don't), it is the same with football stadia. We have got to take the chance because a beloved shack in the shadow of a shiny new Anfield may demonstrate our admirable resistance to the new and real world but it sure won't do us any favours in the long term.
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (12/2/07)

Grassy Knoll

Congrats to Ged Dwyer for the best conspiracy theory since "Who Shot JFK?" and the rigged moon landings. It would in some ways be a relief to know that there was that level of manipulation and long-term planning going on across the Park, but I very much doubt it. They just want a bigger stadium a) because they think they can fill one and b) Arsenal and Man Utd have got one and they need to keep hold of the latter's apron-strings as they have been for the life of the Premiership.

Stanley Park was an obviuos choice for all parties including the City Council. Pity the local residents who won't have anywhere to take the kids on a Sunday, or take the dog for a walk.

Both the old and new owners are much too interested in the bigger global branding of Liverpool to worry about local support. Staying in Anfield just helps with the branding for the Red Socks.

Whether we continue to have a fan base in the City or elsewhere will depend on our success, not someone else's strategies.
Steve Guy, Harrogate  (12/2/07)

Wrong move will be a big mistake

Why don't people like Geoff Barnes wake up to what people like me are saying? Of course Everton need money but if you think a ground move to the wrong place will generate money your having a laugh and in the long run it will be a disaster.

Arsenal moved because they are successful, so are Liverpool. Southampton got a new ground and got relegated. Look what happened at Sunderland. Potentially a big club. New ground; bad management, relegated. And we are a two-club city which makes it even more important that we move to the right place.

You can have all the money in the world but if it's wasted on players like Beattie, Davies, Krøldrup, Shandyman etc, it won't make the slightest bit of difference. Arsenal don't rely on money. They have a wise manager who has built a system and his reserve team can beat most Premiership teams.

A well run club is worth much more than having a rich backer who could pull out anytime. And we certainly don't want millions wasted in building a ground in the wrong place. IT HAS TO BE THE RIGHT MOVE WITH NO RISK AT ALL.

I am very awake Mr Barnes and I know you are the one dreaming.
Ged Dwyer, Liverpool  (12/2/07)

One in; one out?

Atletico to bid £10M for Arteta? Fernandes to cost £12M? See where I'm going with this? Please don't sell Arteta then sign Fernandes proclaiming us to have broken the transfer record again to state our ambition and status as a big club. Selling Arteta for whatever reason to me is a step backwards.

I shall watch the summer with interest...
Ben Houghton, Reading  (12/2/07)

Realities of the Wealth Gap

The article by Ged Dwyer was probably the most delusional I have ever read. He is living in Noddy Land if he believes that the root to success in modern British football is simply a great manager. The wealth gap in football now simply means that if Everton or any other team outside the Big Four land themselves a great manager, then it is only a matter of time before that manager is poached by one of Europe's elite.

When on earth will football supporters wake up and realise that only a massive downturn in football finances or a fundamental change in the rules such as a salary cap (which of course the Big Four would fight like tigers) will enable other clubs to compete for the major honours in English football? It's now 12 years since any club outside the Big Four has won either the Premier League or the FA Cup. How many more years will this go on before the Ged Dwyers of this world wake up?
Geoff Barnes, Liverpool  (12/2/07)

What if...

Fair point to Eileen regards Tesco being the owner of the new stadium as Bill Kenwright hasn't got a pot to piss in. Pity thinking on though as even hindsight would not be needed to have realised this when the King's Dock was available. Timely marketing/whoring of the club to an investor with easy sales pitch of huge multi-purpose venue in the soon-to-be City of Culture, prime real estate and a Premier League club thrown in to boot.

Instead, we fall to the mercy of the Tesco empire where (believe what you will but) they do nothing unless it's for profit. The stadium is part of a complex heavily funded by grant initiatives as part of a redevelopment where Tesco would be quids in with, dare I say it, the land thrown in cheap or free.

As firm a supporter of GFE, the present incumbents have no business acumen or are willing to relinquish the club to anyone with sufficient cash and acument to run the club as a business, the prospect of BK still in charge and his lapdog Wyness screwing the fans at some rented hole in Kirkby with increased ticket prices makes my blood boil but unless BK keels over and falls off his perch I can't see any change soon.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (12/2/07)

Goodison

Just one point: the first purpose-built stadium was Goodison Park ? do we really want to destroy another part of our history?
Arthur Jones, Liverpool  (12/2/07)

More good than bad

The league table shows we`re doing OK at present with a good chance of qualifying for Europe one way or another. We don`t have the players to play `total football` ? whatever that is ? and AJ won't challenge Latchey`s achievement but there`s more good than bad in most displays.

As far as the ground move is concerned, Kenwright has done well to `con` Tesco into providing the finance ? what possible alternative was there?
Gerry Rawlings, Mere  (12/2/07)

Tesco Stadium: we don't have a choice

The question is: "Are we going to have a new stadium or not?" Where the stadium is proposed to be is not for Everton to decide for the simple reasson that Everton will not be paying for it. The stadium will be built (if it is built) at the same location that Tesco believes is best for their superstore. A purpose-built 55,000-seater stadium could not cost less than £150M and if Everton want one, somebody else will have to pay for it.

Live with it, Evertonians, because Tescos ain't going anywhere else but Kirkby. Get real, rebel all you like, start a petition if you want but it's not going to make any difference. We either move or we die on the vine. We've got to change with the game. It's sad but that's the way it is. Goodison can't be redeveloped we know that now because the bastards won't give us the footprint.

It will be the saddest day of my life if or when I leave Goodison for the last time, but not as sad as I would be if the Club I love withered away because our HISTORY beacame more important than our FUTURE.
Eileen Roberts, Runcorn  (12/2/07)

Strange feelings of hope.

Regardless of the complaints we may have about things to date, it is nice to get to this stage of the season and be thinking sbout Europe.

Our style of play to date this season has obviously been far more miss than hit. I was away at the weekend and didn't get to see any highlights, but it sounds like Fernandes had a good game and we actually played attacking football for most of the first half. While the addage about swallows and summers can be applied here, it is still encouraging, especially after the solid display against Liverpool. It's something that I think can also be built on again over our next three games, against Spurs, Watford and Sheff Utd.

As I mentioned in one of my last posts, I was hoping that the whole Benitez thing would spur Moyes on. By the sounds of things, it did on Saturday. While still being a cynic out of pure habit at the moment, there is a part of me starting to feel good about things.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin  (12/2/07)

Err on the side of caution?

Just a general comment really. I regularly read the comments made and I just have a general thought: there seems to be a debate about the style of football being played by Everton in comparison to other clubs. People have been commending Wigan on their cavalier approach against Arsenal (a game which they lost) and bemoaning Moyes's defensive style of play.

My opinion is this, if a team (such as Wigan at the weekend) go out to win a game but ultimately lose, well then the supporters can say "at least they had a go". However, if a team goes out to keep things tight and nick a goal (like Everton) and lose, they are (rightly) accused of boring unimaginative football.

There can be a fine line between success and failure and it is the manner in which you succeed or fail that will earn you most criticism. I find it very frustrating that we don't have the confidence to play a more attacking game but, having said that, I wouldn't swap Moyes for anyone at the moment.
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (12/2/07)

Total football always wins

It upsets and bemuses me when I read articles like Dave Blofeld and John Holmes regarding Wigan's fine and refreshing approach to yesterday's game.

No, Moyes would not have won the game yesterday Mr Blofeld as Everton were in that position previously against Arsenal, only to narrowly escape defeat. Wigan should have won the game yesterday and if it weren't for a ref blunder they would have won it. Wigan had several chances to bury Arsenal, yet poor finishing (Heskey) not poor tactics let Arsenal off the hook. Everton against Arsenal had ONE attempt at goal all game. They defended all game and were very fortunate to escape with a draw. Call that football??? I defy anyone to (except Dickie Dodd)!

Now which team have the better players between Everton or Wigan? No doubt Everton. But, due to Jewell having some tactical knowledge, he knew going for Arsenal would surprise them, and it almost worked. If Jewell can achieve total football with inferior players, imagine what a good manager could do at Everton!?

And as for John Holmes excusing Everton's long balls, then he is the type of fan who will never challenge Everton to become a giant again! There is absolutely no excuses for the long ball unless it's injury time and you need to score. And if you have ball-shy midfielders who can only kick lumps out of players, then the defenders are forced to bring the ball out as opposed to wacking it long to a 5ft 8in striker. And if AJ is as clinical as you say, then why didn't he finish that chance at Liverpool?

With Moyes's negative tactics, Everton will always be erratic, and the last five years is proof enough for that. As we will not always be going a goal up first to hang on! And tell me, Mr Holmes, what do we do when we go a goal down? More aimless long balls? When was the last time Everton came back from two goals down under Moyes with his conservative style?

Wigan, especially in their plight, should be an example of how football should be played. Not derailed by fans so numbed by Moyes they can't even appreciate the game anymore!
Luq Yussef, London  (12/2/07)

What can we do?

I agree with much of what Tom Hughes says. I now pose the question: "What are we, as fans going to do?" I am not against a ground move but it must be the right location. I call for all the people against Kirkby to come together and speak out.
Paul Furlong, Greasby, Wirral  (12/02/07)

M M M M Moyes

I love him. Give at a rest you folks who'd see him sacked. The boy's done wonders. We win games, we pass the ball sometimes, we have a positive goal difference, I look forward to Saturdays!

I've heard people say we should have got Curbishley a while ago... he's doing well isn't he? There's no-one I'd prefer. I don't fear us collapsing, I don't fear him being poached or running off, he's just perfect for our current situation.

We're progressing, slowly, but who cares? I love looking at the table these days. Good football will come, we get bits, there'll be more. Ah... so good to be Blue.
Matt Thomas, Manchester  (12/2/07)

Getting carried away

Some Mailbaggers do get carried away! I would want to see a lot more of Fernandes (and away from home) before clamouring for the club to spend £6M let alone £12M on him in the summer. His agent is a wily bugger who fell out with `Arry big time and this was said to be behind some less than inspiring displays coming up to Christmas. Let`s bide our time, shall we?
Dave Sherwood, Newbury  (12/2/07)

Beating Beattie

For most of this season, Beattie has been taking a beating from people who comment on Toffeeweb. To be fair, his performances have not been great, but we are expecting too much from him.

Beattie is not, and will never be a player to come on 60 mins into a game and make a huge change. He is a player, as he proved last season, who only plays well with a regular run in the first team and when his confidence is high, if he gets a regular run he will play well and score goals.

Anichebe is a very prommising player for the future but his decision-making and link-up play is poor (they will improve with age). I still think Beattie should be picked ahead of him, and I still think we should play 4-4-2, as this will offer better options in attack. Take a look at the second goal at Wigan, Beatties link up play was crucial.
Sam Henley, Liverpool  (12/2/07)

Van der Leaving Man

Glad to see Sky Sports staying true to themselves and only picking up on the negative side of our club. I refer to their article on Van Der Meyde and his assertion that he has had 'a horrible time' on Merseyside. To me, it gives a clear indication that he will not be with us come the new season. His wife and family are already back in Italy and he's whining about not getting enough first team action. Hardly the basis for a long-term stay. Shame really, because I think we are just starting to see the sort of player he can be.
Tom Edwards, York  (12/2/07)

Beavering away

Just a few points in answer to Luq Yussef's damned fine piece.

Firstly, what is it with these guys that want to summarize the season in a game? We won one - nil at home, it could have gone either way. What does it tell us that we didn't already know? Is Fernandes a world-beater after one game? Is Andy Johnson shit because he scuffed an easy chance but converted a difficult one?

Can you criticise the manager for the team getting the jitters defending a single-goal lead when earlier on you've just slated the Johnson for missing the chances that would have made us comfortable? And has Andy van really done anything so dazzling brilliant in an Everton shirt that he is immune to substitution?

But the most baffling thing in the article was the reference to Wigan. Wigan? Yeah, Wigan are great aren't they? I wish we were more like them. I'm sure Arsene Wenger was pissing his pants laughing when that lot turned up at the Emirates and started playing Arsenal at their own game. The final result was only slightly less inevitable than the sly French git congratulating the valiant opposition for their 'performance' in the Sky TV interview afterwards.

And is it really 'Tactical Stupidity' relying on a defence that hasn't conceded a goal in 4½ hours of football? And, more interestingly, does Luq know what tactics are?
Steve McBride, London  (12/2/07)

Some answers, more damning questions

I agree with almost everything Luq says apart from one fundamental point: Stubbs. He was past it the season before last, he was released quite rightly and is even slower now!!! He has had 2 decent games but that is most likely because he has been resting for a couple of months.

Do you actually think this level of performance can be maintained? ? because if so you have a very short memory. He was slow and poor last season, that's why he was released. Don't be seduced by his derby performance, good though it undoubtedly was. The one commodity all Premiership managers want is pace up front, that has to be matched with pace at the back.

Experience at this level only counts when you have been a great player, an international etc. etc. Stubbs has only ever been a journeyman. He was nothing special at Bolton, went to play in the Mickey Mouse league but because he's a through and through blue, somehow people see quality that does not exist. Nobody was interested in signing him at Bolton when he was younger and quicker, why do you want to see a 35+ player retained now?

Also playing a centre-half at left back is not progress its accommodation, Lescott is a far better player and he will cope for 5 or 6 games out of position and will then show it's not his natural position. People will possibly begin to question him when in reality if he was playing at centre half, where he has been very impressive, he would continue to improve. If we want a left back, get a left back ? don't play our best defender out of position.

Finally, we all seem to have short memories about our beloved Stubbs ? I don't. I still question his involvement in Rooney's move and his loyalty to the club and not money. Stubbs quite clearly told Rooney to stuff the club and put himself first. Yes, Rooney was always going to move on, but the circumstances and the timing were quite clearly not in Everton's best interests at that time. Remember also his comments about the club when he was released ? misquoted was his answer ? lies and found out was mine. Let's move on, thank him for his service and get younger, sharper, hungrier players who have something to prove.
Jim Hourigan, Preston  (12/2/07)

VdM

Its obvious from his most recent comments that Shandy Andy sees his future away from Goodison Park. What completely bemuses me is the support that is offered to him in this mailbag and others. A punchy name, the odd flash of skill and previous form at Ajax do not gloss over the fact that his time at Everton has been nothing short of disasterous.

From my seat in the Upper Bullens, Van der Meyde pisses sweat at the slightest exertion and gives the ball away far too often. Players such as Davies by comparrison would be berated in similar circumstances by the terraces, and he lacks the discipline, desire and self determination to cut it at this level. One good cross in two season's for me speaks volumes, I personally have seen enough of this Dutch wastrel to know that his future lies elsewhere.
Peter Laing, Liverpool  (12/2/07)

Andy van driver

Firstly, I would like to say how happy I am with the win against Blackburn at the weekend and what was by all accounts a good performance.

If Van der Meyde has said he wants out if he is not played more regularly, I say "Let him go!" He has played very little for us in his time at Goodison. I understand his injury problems but is there any reason to believe that these injury problems are going to stop?

In reality he has done little or nothing for us during his time and I would be happy to see the back of him. I understand that he has quality and can deliver a great cross but I am sure that he is not the only player in world football who can do that.
Graham Nolan, Dublin  (12/2/07)

Curtains for the Scrimshanker

Methinks that the Scrimshanker has played his last game for Everton. His attitude leaves as much to be desired as his appalling performance on Saturday and the News of the World outburst will have done for him in Moyes's eyes. His was a signing that should never have been made; there was enough evidence available from his previous clubs that he was more interested in the high life than furthering his profession and I always felt that Moyes fell for some agent`s sweet-talk when signing him. Sooner rid the better!
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (12/2/07)

Moyes tried for a hatful

Everton did not sit back on their half-time lead on Saturday ? if anything, they carved out more chances in the second half than in the first. It was only the profligacy of Andrew Johnson that prevented them winning 4-0.

Moyes said after the game that he was disappointed that they had not been more effective in the final third ? football speak for bad finishing. He even brought Beattie on in a misguided attempt to increase the lead (Vaughan would have been a beter bet).
Seb St Clare, Harrogate  (12/2/07)

Re: Luq Yussef

Agreeing with another contributor I have to say much of Luq Yussef's article made little sense.

No, Johnson doesn't need four chances to score. In fact he needed just one chance to score on Saturday. Perhaps he should have had more but players who score the majority of the chances presented to them and can couple that with AJ's work rate tend to be called Thierry or Didier and cost £15M+.

Van der Meyde came off because, by most accounts, he was playing apallingly and has rarely looked capable of finishing a 90-minute match. We all want him to succeed but there's only so many matches where he shows "flashes" that can go by before you wonder when someone will stop pissing about with morse code and leave the light on or replace the bulb. Moyes stuck by him when he could have shipped him off as a crocked, drunken failure to Italy ? and for him to come out in the press like he has leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Why would we swap Beattie for Mido? One disinterested flash-in-the-pan is as good as the next. At least this one is good for the team spirit (well-known for being a good friend of Cahill, Arteta and Johnson). The only advantage I can see is the amusement at seeing just how overweight Beattie is in those rather silly, tight Spurs shirts.

Finally, in what way is Moyes a fraud? Because he isn't attacking? Hardly fraudulent. I never saw him claiming to be Keegan or Ardilles. The man is clearly a defense-minded coach and is a dab-hand at being so. Amongst all the moaning about the lack of flair, a lot of people seem to fail to notice how meticulously prepared the defence is week-in, week-out. The Blackburn FA Cup match was remarkable because it's so rare to see the defence so scattered nowadays.

Wigan may have taken the match to Arsenal yesterday. But firstly, they lost. Secondly, most teams who take the game to Arsenal lose. Thirdly, we did take the game to Blackburn. Fourthly, we won. We perhaps shut up shop a little early but we still suffer from counter-attacking (which would have been the necessary tactic) was always going to be reduced to the long-ball approach.

The inability of Van der Meyde to last the pace is a great frustration as it's in those last 20 minutes when it's most needed to scare the opposition backwards.
John Holmes, York  (12/02/07)

A rod to beat him with

26 games played, and the 6th best goal difference in the league as it stands now. I wonder if other clubs lay into their twice Manager of the Season winning managers at every opportunity due to the 'goals for' column.

Italy won a World Cup last year on the basis of a solid defensive strategy. A team can score all the goals you like, but if they concede one more than that total then it's zero points. And with the new TV deal on the horizon, I wonder how the relegation-threatened clubs feel about dropping a division due to lacklustre defences.

I know Moyes isn't perfect but, now he has the temporary solution that is Manny Fernandes occupying the crippling void in the midfield, we might just see some of the better more attacking football that we all (including Moyes) want to see.

Heres to a manager that has a club punching above its financial weight. Everton for Europe.
Boris Berluskofski, Jersey  (12/2/07)

Van the man

Feel sorry for Van the Man... he's got a talent we need here at Everton. Okay, he's been injured and had personal problems but he's got that edge we need. If he goes, who is going to come and replace him? With his wife back home it will be difficult for him. I foresee him leaving. Sad!
Mike Seyah, Wirral  (11/2/07)

Moyes would have won it!

Luq Yussef`s praise of Wigan`s approach to their game against Arsenal bemuses me. They lost, for god`s sake, because they couldn`t shut up shop like Everton would have done in similar circumstances. Say what you like about Moyes, he knows how to grind out a result and that`s why Andy Roxbrough and the SFA regard him as their expert on defensive coaching.

If he ever left Everton,there would be a queue of clubs from here to Edinburgh ready to snap him up!
Dave Blofeld, Canterbury  (11/2/07)

Opinions

I have been somewhat bemused by a number of comments relating to Shandy and his performance on Saturday. From my seat I did nothing but criticise whilst watching what I thought was an ineffective disinterested performance. He didn't even flatter to deceive, he was out of position on numerous occasions in the first half and was being shouted at by both Moyes and Neville to move back out to the left. His crossing was poor and does he not know what his head is for? I was hoping that Moyes would take him off at half-time; however, he was persevered with and actually played worst in the second period. He was misplacing passes all day and was quite rightly hoiked off.

Although I didn't agree with Beattie coming on and Cahill on the right, I agreed with Moyes's decision to substitute him. Overall, a waste of talent, a waste of a shirt and a waste of small fortune in wages. Osman may not be the answer but give me him any day.

Anyway it?s a game of opinions...
Tony Miller, Merseyside  (11/2/07)

At last!

I'm glad people are now pointing out our goal difference and defensive record this season. In spite of the criticism aimed at Everton for being unable to see out games effectively, I hope people start to realise that ALL teams face a backlash at the end of games.
Nick Harrison, Liverpool  (11/2/07)

The Big Four

Regarding recent comments by Mourhino, Wenger, and Benitez against Everton when they have struggled to beat us: the league seems to be molded around the Big Four.

The referees are very biased against the other clubs when they play against them. Today, Wigan were robbed of 3 points: they should have had a clear penalty and the tieing goal was offside. This happens all the time. Bolton, Reading, or Everton could have a good chance of catching them if they had lost the 3 points for 4th place as they have a tough schedule ahead. Liverpool as well could be caught.

The league needs some kind of salary cap and player cap to get a more balanced setup. Since 1992, Everton are the only team outside the Big Four to win the FA Cup, and qualified for Europe without spending hugh amounts of money. Any promising player that comes along is sold to one of the Big Four. The other clubs are called also-rans.

Did Everton get anywhere on claiming the three point's for the Portsmouth Game?
Peter Knight, Vancouver, Canada  (11/2/07)

Tale of two Andys

Regarding Andrew Jonhson pulling out of the England squad, I was made up. Don't forget his last pointless game in which he was played out of position by Sven drone, McLaren, then the rest of the ponce squad wouldn't pass the ball to him. So fuck them: long may they lose matches and rot where they belong.

On the second, (Sh)Andy van der Meyde, it seems his actual career history of achieving 90 minutes for any team during a single game are woeful; hopefully some sharp statto can confirm this. A football match lasts 90 minutes; if a player can't give 90 minutes then they are baggage we can do without.

The "reported" article says his family returned to Italy some time ago... didn't appear to stop him going out on the razz, so he can't be missing them that much. If anything, he has the Life of Riley ? nice earner with sod all in return to his employers and lots of nearby venues dripping in substances for him gorge on and low life skanks to entertain his evenings afterwards.

Like other mercenary players, I've no time for him.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (11/2/07)

The Team

I thought a lot of good points came out of yesterday's match. 3 points, solid defensively and creative attacking play at times. With 12 games to go, we need to push on and target Uefa Cup qualification, which will be 5th or 6th place. Looking at the squad, the strongest 16, if everyone is match fit and using Moyes's 4-5-1 formation has to be:

Howard
Hibbert, Yobo, Lescott, Valente
Van der Meyde, Fernandes, Neville, Cahill, Arteta
Johnson

Subs: Wright, Stubbs, Osman, Anichebe, Vaughan 

Andy Unsworth, Liverpool  (11/2/07)

Van der Meyde

VdM can go in my opinion. Fair enough, he hasn't had a decent run but then again when I have seen him I never thought he looked that good.
Trevor Thompson, Croydon  (11/2/07)

Only one Tony Hibbert!

Every time a writer mentions Tony Hibbert they refer to his 'appalling distribution'. Well, they didn't have to suffer it yesterday as we were treated to the return of a current England full-back, Phil Neville.

I haven't got his personal stats to hand but I would estimate that at least 75% of his clearances went directly to an opposition player. Neville may be regarded by some as 'our best captain since Kevin Ratcliffe' but to me he isn't half as good as Hibbert in the full-back role!
Zoe Mantle, Speke  (11/2/07)

21 Points to get!

Well that`s three points towards the 24 we need to qualify for Europe and I think we`ve every chance of getting them. Our defence is rock solid and as long as AJ can keep slotting the odd goal away it should be a stroll.

Perhaps then, the Moyes knockers will give it a rest and acclaim him as the best manager outside the Big Four. In fact there`s one of their number I wouldn`t swop him four!
Glen Whittaker, Parbold  (11/2/07)

Moyes

I will probalby get slated for this but ,for me, Moyes still needs to go at the end of the season. A decent first half here and there still doesn't make him a good manager. Yesterday, well on top in the first half, what should the half-time team talk involve?

"Right lads, you're playing great. Go out and more of the same." But no, it seems as if Moyes told them to go out and sit back and defend the one-goal lead. It's as if he is shit scared of taking chances. I know we won and it's great, but I just can't adhere to Moyes anymore.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (11/2/07)

Five years of progress

Only three teams have conceded less goals than Everton this season. In 2001-02, only three teams conceded more than us.

Only five teams have a better goal difference than Everton this season. In 2001-02, only five teams had a worse goal difference than us.

We have improved immensely. Granted it's in a slight Yo-Yo fashion, but we are going up (surely the right direction). Our football is ten times more exciting than it was, when produced by Gazza, Ginola, Blomqvist, Linderoth, and Gemmill!

Bill Kenwright has supplied the money for Moyes to deliver with AJ, Arteta, Cahill, Yobbo etc, the list goes on. Who else may we of signed with more money, Emre? Bellamy??? well I for one am delighted we did not get those greedy no-mark primadonnas. Well done, Bill Kenwright; well done, David Moyes!
Dan O'Brien, Liverpool  (11/2/07)

Progress

Another game which reminds me we are making progress. I don't like making the same point over and over again, but the attitude of some blues grinds with me.

Of course Moyes has made mistakes, some very big ones, but they are all forgiveable and its madness to suggest we sack him given the position we were in when he took over.

A recent comment from the editor of this site sums up the negativity some fans seem unable to let go of. After the derby : "Lets hope we can kick on from here, but under Moyes we just know that won't happen."
Ronnie Mukherjee, Rainhill, Merseyside  (11/2/07)

Never thought I`d say it.....

....but Doddy had it just about right on yesterday`s game. We should have had four and with a little bit of composure AJ would have the match ball this morning. Yesterday he was getting into central positions more regularly and leaving others to work the wings.

If 24 points from the last 13 games was indeed all we required for a European spot that was a good start but `Moysie`will have to step up on the shooting practice if it`s to be achieved.
Brian Noble, Ince Blundell  (11/2/07)

IFWT

I was interested in Mark Hughes's post match comments. He was saying how good the Everton defence was. I agree and this is something many teams would give anything for... especially the age of Lescoot and Yobo. Nuno is a good player too.

Midfield: Arteta is a class act. Fernandes could be good and is young. Van der Meye shows good glimpses. Cahill is someone who many clubs would pay a lot for. Carsley a quiet rock.

Up front: AJ is a great hardworking player who scores and defends from the front. Anichebe and Vaughan good young prospects.

Moyes: cautious, yes. Developing the club over time? Yes. Developing it at the speed many fans want? Well, perhaps not... but faster than Newcastle (big club - spent more), Spurs (big club - spent more), Aston Villa (big club - just taken over), Man City (17th richest club in unverse!) .

No spending in transfer window so chance of some further meaningful strengthening in close season and thus further development.

So I'm pretty pleased when I take a considered long-term view. Many say Moyes uses wrong tactics. Sometimes, yes; other times, bang on. I get annoyed sometimes by the lack of a killer instinct. But fans on this site who say another manager with more attacking tactics would speed up development miss one point... would they necessarily have brought together the nucleus of a good team with the funds we have as Moyes has done?

Not everything is ideal and rosey ? far from it. But the situation is a long way from as miserable as some present it.

If we lose next game then obviously we are shite, going nowhere, still sinking as we have been for the last 200 years, being conned by BK, Liverpool City Council and Arteta's agent in a vile conspiracy..... and Moyes should be shot.

In Fickleness We Trust!
Ged Simpson, Northwich  (11/2/07)

The ToffeeWeb Effect

Has anyone else noticed a pattern forming?

Before last weeks match a correspondent tore into Stubbs ? the result: he played a blinder and Everton kept another clean sheet (that?s 6 out of 8 by the way).

This week, in his piece ?AJ ? No way? Nick Entwistle slates Andrew Johnson, telling us he much preferred Marcus Bent ? the result: AJ has possibly his best game in an Everton shirt (apart from the home derby). I think perhaps he should have stuck another couple away, but his movement and work rate were outstanding

Expect my letter arriving next Saturday morning slagging off AvdM ? who surely must be the biggest waste of talent since Alan Williams ?gave? the Beatles away.
Kevin Sparke, Northumberland  (11/2/07)

Straight from the horse's mouth

As I travelled home last night I heard Stuart Hall interview David Moyes (very briefly). Now not withstanding the fact that it was Stuart Hall, he referenced his comments by an earlier statement about being at the School of Science and some quite aimless football seen during the match. He then said that, in his opinion, Everton were crying out for another forward alongside AJ to capitalise on the attacking play to take the game to the opposition.

Moyes's reposte was something along the lines of "Well that's your opinion, we play with Tim Cahill getting forward and he was superb today." As I fumed at this, he said something else about not needing two forwards and playing with one was his way of approaching games.

So here's my view of yesterday's match: first half we played some decent stuff, we kept possession in midfield and in Arteta, Fernandes and Van der Meyde had 3 players who were comfortable in possession and not afraid to hold the ball and had confidence in their own ability to beat a player. Cahill did get forward although he was probably less effective than usual. We created decent chances and should have gone in at least 2 goals ahead.

The second half starts, as any manager would expect, with Blackburn making a far better go of it and trying to up the pace. They got more possession and put some pressure on the defence. Then what I saw was a manager who, with little faith in his creative attacking players, panics and after only 15 mins or so, takes off Van der Meyde and puts Cahill wide right and Beattie up front. He can now go straight from back to front by humping the ball. Watching Van der Meyde going off he did not look injured to me so I believe it was purely tactical.

Here's my points: Firstly, Moyes states quite openly that he plays with Cahill as the central second attacker, which most will agree is Cahill's only real position. So what on earth will he contribute wide right? Can he beat players with skill? Can he go past on the outside and put crosses in for Beattie? Is he creative in his distribution? All "No" answers...

This then leaves Cahill somewhat isolated and only really contributing from set pieces. It also means that we revert to long aimless balls which Blackburn retrieve and begin to put more pressure on us with. To those crying it shows flexibility in his tactics, please answer where does Cahill fit into these new tactics? ? is this really getting the best out of him and the midfield as a whole?

Secondly, in any game of football the opposition will always have a period in control ? no matter what team or tactics you employ. If you have faith and belief in your players and the way you want to play, you don't panic and remove 'the easy options' ? you look to get your players in possession again to dictate the game as they did in the first half. What David Moyes did yesterday was bypass his midfield, show limited faith in them to regain control, and hand the advantage over to the opposition ? shades of Wigan and Man City. Is he willing to learn or is he stuck in a mindset with one dimensional thinking?

Finally, why did he panic and make a change that fundamentally alters the whole way of playing for the worse? For Christ's sake, it was only Blackburn! And only half a side at that!! The first half clearly showed that, if we passed the ball through midfield, we were capable of creating chances and should have scored more. With four in midfield, Carsley becomes more exposed, his lack of ability with a football within two yards of him is cruelly exposed, and time and again the opposition is given the ball back. As the ball comes to him he hacks it clear 'into the stands' and we're defending again.

Why has he so little faith in creative attacking play? Sadly, I suppose that, because I and I believe others keep asking this question, it shows the gulf between what I think the School of Science stands for and what he thinks it stands for.
Jim Hourigan, Preston  (11/2/07)

Oh no you don't, lads!

Our flowing football in the first half must have had Moyes quivering with rage. But the alleged 64% who support him need not have worried cos his half-time talk soon put a stop to all that...
Mick Wrende, Macclesfield  (11/2/07)

Why change?

Without going overboard, I thought we played fairly well in the first half; we did create and miss some chances but the movement was better in midfield, Fernandes making his mark with a fine run, his effort hitting the side netting. AJ had broken the deadlock on 10 mins with a volley, and created chances, snatching at most of them, with Friedel making some fine saves.

The second half, after Hughes must have blasted his defenders in the dressing room, wasn't as fluent in movement as the first, but we still created chances: Van der Lucan missing from 6 yards. Just after that, Moyes makes a change taking off Van the Man to be replaced by Beattie,(as I write I do not know if Van der Meyde was injured? But if not why did he need to change it?).

The movement ceased, we started pumping balls up to Beattie, with Cahill pushed out wide on the right. Most of the fans by me started to get restless, we were falling back and allowing Blackburn to get forward. Howard had to make some good saves, as we dropped further back. I would like to know WHY he had to make that change? And if Van was injured then why not young Vaughan who has more going for him than Beattie? At the end of the day we got the three points kept another clean sheet, so I suppose we should be happy... But why that change?
Norman Merrill, Everton  (11/2/07)

Proper Togger

Not for the first time, Ken Buckley hit the nail squarely on the head with his analysis of today's game, I thought. Why is it, when we can play such flowing stuff as we did at times in the first half, we revert to the "standing our ground" mentality in the second when we're a goal up? And yes, I know we had a couple of chances to put the game beyond doubt in the second half, but in the end we were hanging on when we should have buried a poor Blackburn side. I bet I wasn't the only one in the ground who had the Man City scenario in mind towards the end...

You could argue (and I'm sure many will) that I'm being churlish, given the fact that we've taken 7 points from 3 games that included a visit to Anfield, but I just feel so frustrated that we are a side who CAN play decent football, but for some reason we won't try to play it over the 90 minutes when we're a goal to the good. At times today we passed the ball with fluency, moved well, used wide men and it was good to watch. Proper togger. But unfortunately, it didn't last.

We know that Davie has this obsession with not conceding ? no bad thing in a manager, fair play ?but when we do go a goal up (the Liverpool game aside) then that obsession kicks in big time, so that, rather than try to kill teams off, we dig in and try to defend better than Michael Caine and his mates did in 'Zulu'. Well the ones who didn't get speared, anyway.

But there's a time and a place. Away points against Liverpool and Arsenal were great, and we did what we had to do. They weren't good enough to break us down, or in Liverpool's case to score at all. But at home against sides like Man City, Reading, Watford etc we should have tonked them big time but we ended up on the back foot. I've had a go at David Moyes in the past, but I do think that he's put together a side who can play with a lot more flair than what we've seen all too often this season, he's just got to let them do it. More people watch football to see goals than they do to see solid defending.

Obviously, there's no immediate prospect of competing with Man Utd and Chelsea ? let alone some of the 'smaller' clubs just below them ? but for now I think many of us would settle for more style and class to our play. The annoying thing is that we know it's in there somewhere, because we've seen it happen ? all to briefly ? this season. Let's not be afraid of taking the game to the opposition, and let's see the players believe in themselves a little more.

And by the way, young Fernandes, impressive debut... early days, but if he ends up staying (I know, big if!), could he be the man to sit just in front of the back four?
Kevin Latham, Liverpool  (10/2/07)

Fernandes and Da Silva

"He is a strong type and his style means you would put him in Vieira-Petit bracket," he said.

"He has loads of creativity and he can do wonders playing behind the strikers or in the left wing."

Ok these two quotes are not about Fernandes and Da Silva. The first is what Walter Smith had to say about Nyarko and the second is what Toffeeweb had to say about on-loan Brazilian Rodrigo. I really want to be positive about our new guys but using history as a guide I am going to reserve judgement until the summer.
Kieran Kinsella, Gainesville, FL, USA  (10/2/07)

Progress

Today, especially in the first half, we looked very good. Passing was good, movement was good and we showed some drive. I was very impressed with Fernandes: nice runs, fantastic passing and a good eye for goal.

On another topic, someone came up with a blinder on Radio City after the match, ?Newcastle 2-1 Liverpool Redsox, Touchdown!? ? classic!
Mark Parsons, Liverpool  (10/2/07)

Go, Tony, Go...

One of life?s little pleasures is to read the mailbag and not find Tonking Tony in full spate. Never fear, he will quickly find something to haunt us with but meanwhile we can bask in the reflected glory of another good performance.
Dick Fearon, West Australia  (11/2/07)

Today's game

As soon as we changed to 4-4-2 when Beattie came on, we were missing a man in midfield. We are not strong enough to play 4 in midfield. We should stay with 5 in midfield, and Howard should stop humping the ball up-field to a 5ft 7in forward.

We saw what Arteta and Fernandes can do on the floor so why not keep it there? As Cahill is suspended for the next game, maybe try Arteta in a free role behind Johnson? Mikel is class. If we allow him to leave, it would break my heart.

Say no to Kirkby ? don't give them the freedom of our city. We were here first.
Colin Malone, Wirral  (10/2/07)

From my seat

Three points, almost safe... almost Europe. A first half that saw us play some decent football that should have shown more reward than our 1-0 lead at the break.

All eyes were on our new boy who I thought for the first 15 mins was talked through the game plan by senior players and then showed what he may be cabable of with some good touches and penetrating runs, one of which I thought he should have capitalised on. His was a debut I particularly liked as he didn't shine like the midfield maestro we are crying out for but left the feeling that given half a dozen games he will have a song made up for him, unlike some debutants who have only flattered to deceive.

Having taken the lead, at the break I felt we went into "What we Have we Hold" mode rather than tackling a mediocre Blackburn side with more of the same from the first period. Still, if that is what works for the manager and he gets the points, we will all go home happy but in my case hoping for that bit more.

Looking for a Man of the Match, I thought it was more of a team effort where, at different times, different players came to the fore so I am left with sugesting Stubbs, Carsley and the mercurial Arteta as the most worthy candiates.

All in all, I enjoyed the game and I believe I can see the green shoots of just a little bit of joined-up football... If only everyone can come to terms with 'a game lasts 90 mins' and not a period thereof. Also, the last ten mins is not required to be panic time.

Spurs next and a chance of marching on allied to a good night out; hell, they have done our pub up so things must be on the up!! See you then -- UP THE BLUES
Ken. Buckley, Buckley  (10/2/07)

Re: Nick Entwistle

Without being too critical of a felow blue, perhaps Nick Entwistle, judging from his post yesterday, wants to see Everton and Johnson in the Championship.

Something's for sure: Johnson will get 15+ goals for us this season and you will never make it as Russell Grant.
Simon Temme, Bristol  (10/2/07)

You were saying?

re Head to head by Darren Crosby of Ainsdale...

You were saying, Darren? It's slow, it's painful but we ARE making progress!
Tony O'Connor, Sheffield  (10/2/07)

Heading in the Right Direction

The most important thing we have seen today is that we took three points from a very important fixture and have shown that, while a good cup run might be a favourable thing, three points is more important. How many did Blackburn score today?

I've seen a couple of comments on here regarding Barcelona and as much as we'd all love to be Barcelona, we're a little more Espanyol at the moment. A bad thing? Maybe not. This is a team who have been up and down like a yoyo and have kept relative faith in their manager in a football climate which sees fans booing Ronaldinho for two or three bad games and calling for Rijkard´s head after four (very succesful) years. Where am I going? Good question...

While we may not be playing the most attractive football of all and scoring 'muy poco' or a little, we do seem to be heading in the right direction. The transfer window was quiet but after today we've seen that Fernades CAN play and hopefully this arrogant streak that we've heard about will keep him shooting from twenty yards and turning those heels. All the better for Everton I say. The grinding out of points seems, at least to me, to be a consolidation effort. We can't play the attacking game that we're all so eager to see because at the moment we don't have all the pieces but those positions are being filled slowly and surely. Replacing Martyn? Big job, let's hope Howard signs. In midfield, replacing... who? This we had to build and Arteta and Fernandes are two very nice bricks. Lets see what happens from here on in.

Maybe I don't appreciate the grand tradition of this fine football club; being 28, I've seen a couple of league wins but the biggets memory for me was 1995 and Graham Stuart (no sorry, Paul Rideout, i'll never know how Bobby missed) but after a long dark spell i feel that something is happening. Just hope it'e something good.

Great Site, being an ex-pat just wouldn't be the same without it (and this isn't just so you'll add my letter!!).
Gary Walker, Barcelona, Catalunya  (10/2/07)

Fernandes

What's all this nonsense about Moyes soon getting rid of Fernandes ability and turning him to a hacker or whatever you seem to think Moyes likes to develop??? Has Arteta lost any of his skill or flair since he joined? On the contrary, I read Arteta saying himself that Moyes has helped him to develop his game by playing him out wide where he can affect the game with more time and space.

We played quality football today and with a little more luck and confidence we would've turned them over. Fernandes looks every inch the player Moyes knows our team needs. IMWT
Niall Clinton, London  (10/2/07)

Lack of goals

Picking up on the point you made answering Richard Dodd's letter. It is hardly the fault of Moyes's tactics that the players miss gilt-edged chances.

I thought the line-up we put out today was very attacking and that we played some very good football. Since the unbelievable defeat to Chelsea, we have scored 10 and conceded 3. A run of games which has helped no end our quest for a positive goal difference.

I also spotted a poll on the soccernet website where it asks fans of all the clubs in the top flight to vote on whether they think their manager is doing a good job or not. It seems that 64% of our fans think Moyes is doing a good job. Giving credence to the view that the vocal majority who write into the mailbag represent a minority of Everton fans.

Keep up the good work.
Jay Wilson, London  (10/2/07)

Today's Game

Today's game was exactly what we needed and credit must go to the team and the management staff. In the first half, I felt we were superb and I defy anyone on here to say that the football was not entertaining.

The tactics were spot on until Andy Van der Meyde got injured as this seemed to halt our momentum and caused us to lose our shape a bit. That said, we did continue to create chances and were able to survive the shocking refereeing we have come to expect from Mr Styles. I cannot think of a single player who did not perform at least satisfactorily and this is encouraging as the same could be said after each of our last few games.

It is also pleasing that we were able to switch from pretty defensive football at Anfield to decent attacking football with such aplomb. My only worry at the moment is that we seem to play lots of good 45 minutes but very few good 90 minutes.
Sean Rothwell, Liverpool  (10/2/07)

Today's game

Andy Unsworth, Liverpool  (10/2/07)

Total Vengance

A great win which really should have been 4-0, but a fabulous birthday goal for Andrew, a magic display from Mikey and what about that Fernandes?Those three points make us nailed-on favourites to secure the Intertoto spot and even a Uefa Cup place beckons.

What a great week for Davey and Bill with the manager totally revenging the Cup defeat and the Chairman taking his plans for a fabulous new stadium a stage further.
Richard Dodd, Formby  (10/2/07)

Poor Fulham...

Simon Davies for Fernandes. Who says Moyes struggled in the January window! Fantastic boost to our midfield!
Viv Sharma, Northampton  (10/2/07)

Who takes over the asylum?

So Everton FC should be run by the fans for the fans? Interesting. Marshy and his ilk sitting down coming to an earth-shattering consensus with Doddy & Dutch to keep Moyes on, then sack him, then appoint Pardew ? no, sorry, O'Neill... or was it George Graham? Or should we bring back Moyes, I can't remember now.

Whilst they sort this out, they all agree on moving to Speke... failing that setting up shop in Kirkby but probably deciding instead on extending Goodison Park so that it now joins with the newly opened Stanley Park Doritos Bowl thereby not sharing with Liverpool FC whilst at the same time playing on the same pitch. Season ticket prices go up, then down then the recently sacked Wyness is invited back to act in an advisory capacity to explain something they forgot to ask him before he left. Ken Buckley sits up in the stands, shaking his head, contemplating the journey home.

I give it 6 months before the mailbag is full of 'Come Back Kenwright, all is forgiven' postings...
Tony Horne, Kettering  (10/2/07)

Head to head

Today sees a manager, whom an increasing number of Evertonians have had enough of, going head to head with a manager most would have on their short-list to replace him. Let`s see how they both perform ? how they set their teams out, the tactics they employ, and the football they produce. Let`s pay particular attention to how the ball is played out of defence, how skilled their midfields are at linking with attackers, tactics at set pieces and how prepared players are to actually shoot at goal. If Moyes is to be replaced, let us at least, start `interviewing` the candidates.
Darren Crosby, Ainsdale  (10/2/07)

Fans Ownership

Works for Barcelona?
Ged Simpson, Northwich  (10/2/07)

Yeah right, but exactly WHEN!!

Dan O'Brien; 'Our group of players are getting more talented every year'... The whole point being, 0-0 draws at anfield not withstanding, when, just when, Moyes will let this talented group of players actually PLAY SOME DECENT FOOTBALL??
Derek Thomas, Auckland New Zealand  (10/2/07)

Back off, please, boo-boys

The mailbag is fascinating, lurching from the deeply sensitive and thoughtful, to the outright insane and I greatly appreciate all at Toffeeweb and the fantastic job you do in keeping us informed about exactly what is going on at our Club. It is like a lifeline to me and I am sure thousands of others, particularly those of us who are so far removed from Merseyside and who don't even have direct access to the city gossip. However, I am concerned at the constant criticism of both Manager and Chairman.

No, this is not an all out defence of everything Bill and Moysey have done and yes, they have made mistakes and will continue to do so. At the same time, Dan Doyle's comments about short memories after the Luton game ring very true. We have an honest, hard-working, traditional, mistake-making manager, who jumps up and down on the touchline, pulling players back to the centre circle when they have equalised and who kicks every ball of the match himself. I love that!

No, he is not the greatest manager in the history of the game but the guy is now being criticised for taking 4 points off Liverpool in a season because in the second match we didn't destroy them with total football.

Will anyone reading this with an ounce of common sense, please cast their minds back to the mess we were in when this guy arrived and count their blessings at the situation we know find ourselves! Short memory? I think the problem of our lack of appreciation goes much deeper than that. I'm old enough to have seen honest AND talented footballers, such as Neil McDonald, destroyed by the boo-boys at Goodison.

I'm all for free speech but it must be balanced with fairness and common sense. Next time Moysey waits too long to make a substitution, can we please all take a deep breath before lashing out?
Andy McNabb, Melbourne, Australia  (10/2/07)

Who can you trust?

Day in day out, on Toffeeweb we see blue after blue bemoaning the current ownership situation at Goodison and lamenting the absence of a fairy-godfather to wave a magic wand and £100 million and end all our troubles. Banish the board, replace Moyes, buy Ronaldinho, cure leprosy, whatever.

Given the imminent influx of TV money, maybe that person is out there. But ask this question: barring it being a season-ticket holding lottery winner named Dixie Labone from Walton, would you want some unknown from Russia or Texas or Dubai who knows sweet fuck-all about the club getting their hands on Everton for the promise of TV revenue??? Wasn't it bad enough when a Birkenhead Red bought into the club and almost brought it to it's knees? Doesn't anyone remember "Agent Johnson"???

I know I've said this before and it's been dismissed by the powers that be at Toffeeweb. ("Fans trusts. Interest among Evertonians ? zilch" was the reply) The fans need to take over the club and run it as a club. Who else can you trust??? Why isn't there at least a discussion of this???
Paul Daly, Dublin & New York  (9/2/07)

Deja vu

The EPL looks very similar to the Serie A of the 90s. Big money, massive international brand, and an influx of foreign owners. What did these foreign owners do? Invest heavily, and then take every penny, draining everything out of traditional clubs like Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, and Parma.

ps. 3-5 months ago we played Luton nearly all of Parkend were singin Moyes's name in last 10 mins! Someones got a short memory.
Dan O'Brien, Liverpool  (9/2/07)

'Everton'

I think our football club is completely unique, and fact that we have the most top flight appearances, most topflight points, and all our trophies means something.

Keep it blue, keep Bill Kenwright. It seems a rediculous risk to sell up to a foreigner that did not care when we were relegation candidates, or before we had the promise of TV money.

Kenwright cared when we had nothing, nobody can argue, we have more prospects now than we had when he took over. GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT! Tony Hibbo is back! Four good signings in the summer and next season could be exciting.

Kenwright is God, he saved us, be grateful, and appreciate the hardworking club you support.
Dan O'Brien, Liverpool  (9/2/07)

Investment

I can find one very big hole in Paul Johnson's letter, who/where is the viable alternative investor? Remember our kopite neighbours had been looking for three years before closing the sale to Bush's Texan buddy. Aston Villa were a far more attractive proposition because Doug Ellis' good housekeeping mean't there was no debt. Newcastle's sale is blowing hot and cold. It seems to me Kenwright is pursuing a strategy of investment that allows him to remain the big honcho. Earl's arrival has unified the board behind him, he then has the tv money from next year, Mr Leahy and Mr Green and then ...now I'm stuck! Any offers?
Chris Davies, London  (9/2/07)

Standing aside

I notice many posts requesting our Chairman to sell up and go. I hope that he doesn't just sell up.

I have no doubt that offers will be made for our club in the not to distant future and I would like to think the Chaiman will deliver us into the hands of people who genuinly want to further our great club far more than he can but with the same passion and fervour all Blues have.

Many aspects within football seem to me to have the word 'Dodgy' somewhere in the text since the money became the magnate. I too love my club with a passion and I sincerely hope Bill has the gift of judgement and doesnt just sell up, walk away and leave us with something 'Dodgy' in the text. UP THE BLUES
Ken. Buckley, Buckley  (9/2/07)

Chanting his name...

In response to Dan O'brien's post. Come and sit with me in the Park End and you won't hear much support for Moyes. It is the main reason I can state with a lot of confidence that Moyes is crap because all the people sat around me each week say the same thing. In fact I have never heard anyone say "Wow, this is exciting stuff Moyes has us playing" or "I'm glad Vaughan's on the bench instead of Beattie".

It really is about time people like Dan and the others that sing Moyes's name wake up and realise how stagnant we are under Moyes's leadership.
Alan Clarke, Manchester  (9/2/07)

re: Dan O'brien

Dan, the reason why I whinge about Moyes is the shite football we get served up by him. The man has got no tactical nous. I go to a lot of home and away games, and I can remember at one time getting up on match day really looking forward to the game. That doesn't happen anymore. And I blame Moyes for that. In my opinion, the man has to go at the end of the season no matter what we achieve in the remaining games. I know there are people out there who agree with me.
Brian Waring, Wokingham  (9/2/07)

AJ ? No Way... it almost rhymes, brilliant!

Reading the previews to the Blackburn game it seems that if everyone who writes them is in the know, AJ will play up front on his own. This may have gone down well in the Championship and one season in the Premiership, but AJ alone up front has been sussed by every team we play that way against, to almost embarrassing proportions for AJ. On his own up front, he's not fit to lace Marcus Bent's shoes.
Nick Entwistle, London  (9/2/07)

Response to James Gardener

Are these really facts:

"FACT 1: Liverpool?s new ground WILL be state of the art and WILL certainly overshadow GP."

(unless the plans have been revised) Liverpool's new ground will be just that... NEW. Nothing state of the art in an enlarged Reebock hybrid.

"FACT 3: Their new ground will have a bigger capacity, no doubt built by seasoned stadia builders and probably have some sort of class."

Hope it's not the same lot who designed the Anfield Road upper tier... that needed fixing 5 mins after completion... true class.

"FACT 4: Liverpool city council are not interested in Everton, never have been, never will."

Would've thought it would be political suicide to favour one or the other, and see no REAL evidence to support this assertion.

"FACT 5: Previously mentioned/proposed locations, ie, south Liverpool, would also not be welcomed by the majority of the ?Walton is at the centre of the universe? brigade."

I think it's more a case of the centre of Liverpool... and Walton's much nearer to that than Kirkby or Speke.

"FACT 6: Without Tesco, there is no other knight in shining armour who will bankroll this thing. Everton are not as marketable as Liverpool so what are people expecting?"

West Ham, Aston Villa? Why not Everton?

"With these glaringly obvious facts, surely any Evertonian can see that even if Everton could redevelop Goodison it will be far overshadowed by their new ground."

Goodison Park overshadowed Anfield for decades, didn't stop them overtaking us. However, its status and historical importance has helped preserve us for over 100 years, warts and all it has more character than all the new stadia put together. Leaving the middle ground to your neighbour and main competitor for the hearts and souls of future generations of footy fans would be commercial suicide. Talk about marginalising your target audience... Everton the Lancashire People's Club?

If we must move (and it isn't a factual necessity at all) then why not get Tesco to push for an edge-of-City-centre development? There are acres of brownfield sites where they could take real advantage of all the central developments and infrastructural changes that are taking place already. Everton Park for instance. The surrounding population is now miniscule, and the ill-conceived park is an eyesore and representative of the biggest urban planning cock-ups in the city's history. There are opportunities, but you have to want to see them.
Tom Hughes, Liverpool  (9/2/07)

Special notice

I loved the little story about Randy Lerner and shall take special notice of how the Villa fare-on and off the field. If they do well, I can say `if only`... if bad `just glad he never came here!' Somehow, I just know which it will be!
Bernie Noble, Neston  (9/2/07)

Who`d take it on?

With all due respect to contributor Johnson - who the fuck would take it on? Kenwright and his predecessor have run Everton into the ground and when they sell `The Old Lady `to Tesco there will be fuck-all left of the Club we love.
Bill Nicklin, West Derby  (9/2/07)

Genius Lerner

If it`s right that Randy Lerner paid only £64M for Aston Villa, I reckon he got the bargain of the century in that the deal included the contract of manager Martin O`Neill who I would have loved to have come to Goodison. When you think what those daft buggers paid for Liverpool and Benitez, Lerner must be a fucking genius!
Kevin Millward, Neston  (9/2/07)

Barriers to External Investment

I applaud David Moores (no, really) for his willingness to sell his majority stake in LFC to the Yanks. It probably broke his heart, but it's the right thing, in fact the only thing, for a pragmatic business owner to do in his situation. LFC needed external investment so the Chairman, and other shareholders, have agreed to sell out so that this can happen.

If only our chairman would do the same. Bill Kenwright offers little, if anything, that will take EFC forward. Being a passionate supporter is simply not enough, and never was. And this is at a time when we must move forward or be further overtaken. The clock is ticking like never before.

Our Chairman lacks any financial muscle of his own, and is a very real impediment to the serious external finance investment that we require. He is putting his own narrow personal desire to remain 'in control' ahead of the needs of the football club (which is a business whether he likes it or not) that he claims to cherish so dearly.

Bill Kenwright must accept that his majority shareholding cannot be preseved if the best interests of the club are put first. The move to Kirkby will happen so that Bill's majority shareholding remains intact. It will be paid for by Tesco, grants, handouts, subsidies and whatever else it takes to make it happen without diluting Bill's stake.

EFC playing at Tesco Town offers the best way for Bill to be seen to be 'doing something positive' rather than standing still, like we have done for so many years. This will be his legacy to EFC, and will happen as sure as day follows night due to his inability to invest any of his own money (he hasn't got any) or attract new investment by diluting or selling his majority shareholding.

So, Bill, why not do the right thing for the Everton business and stand aside like David Moores has just done? I think we all know why, don't you?
Paul Johnson, Oxton, Wirral  (9/2/07)

Hope for us yet!

Nick Harris of the Independent includes Everton in a list of clubs he considers susceptible to foreign takeover in the near future. He also discloses that Fulham have eye-watering debts amounting to no less than £160M, making Everton`s £20M overdraft look very small beer indeed! Perhaps there`s hope for us after all!
Dan Preece, Mold  (9/2/07)

Record straight?

Luq from London: Unfortunately what you call arrogance is the knowledge of a sure fire certainty which stems from the fact that it was the worst kept secret on Merseyside for God know's how long that Rooney had decided he was going to Man Utd, it was just a case of when.

JPM: 'Business Acumen' Chicken or egg mate? To buy top players you need money, to get money you need a sugar daddy or to make more off the field. Liverpool, with their far more commercial brand, were £80M in debt and couldn't afford to pay for their own stadium.

Which conveniently leads me on the cost of a new stadium or rebuilding GP. The big point again is we don't have the money to do either properly which is why Tesco/Knowsley is EFC's preferred option, our costs will be minimal in comparison to going it alone.

ps: Moysie for me!!
Steve McBride, Liverpool  (9/2/07)

To Anfield?

Yes, why not go to Anfield which was our original home. We only need change the colour of the place, including seats, and we'll feel quite at home. Presumably it would cost a lot less than a new stadium as well.
Tony Waring, Frogmore, Devon  (9/2/07)

New balls please!

I just remembered that it was the ball that beat us when we played Blackburn in the Cup so we must be in with a better chance tomorrow as the teams revert to our preferred Premier varity.

With a target of another 24 points to garner if we are to be certain of a direct Uefa Cup spot, it will require more than a `backs to the wall` defensive performance to actually win matches. My money is on Blues starting with both AJ and Victor up front with Fernandes in midfield. COYB!
Kile Northcott, Skelmersdale  (9/2/07)

Tony... don't stop 'til you've had enough

Tony (as in Marsh): Take no notice of Michael, mate, and DO write in every day.

I can tell you this for certain. You are our legend here in Western Australia and most people over here wish we were still as passionate as you, because it is passion that makes you write in every day. Try as hard as we can, most of us over here for 5, 10, 20, 30 years have seen the passion diluted and we believe we are playing right into Bill's hands.

See, Bill doesn't want people who are passionate. It may make them question, "What the fuck is happening at Goodison?" All they want, is for you to cough up your dosh and, well... that's it really.

So, Tony ? and everyone who is passionate about this club ? Yes, write in every day! Bill may not give a fuck but I guarantee that we (Perth WA blues) sure do!
Damien Stewart, Perth, Western Australia  (9/2/07)

The price wasn`t right!

Strictly in the category of rumours that won't go away is the story around MBNA headquarters that Randy Lerner looked long and hard into aquiring Everton before committing himself to buy Aston Villa.

The American banking magnate eventually paid £64M(plus debt responsibility for £11M) to aquire the Midland club including their superb ground and state-of-the-art training facilities. Lerner`s advisers calculated that he would need to commit at least THREE times that amount to buy out Everton`s shareholders, cover £50M of borrowings and build a new ground!

As the Yanks say, the decision to opt for Villa was `a no-brainer` but the fact remains that if a genuine football fan like the Anglicized Lerner felt the price wasn`t right, who in hell`s name ever will?
Gerald Richards, Chester  (9/2/07)

What the hell do we care?

I think all of the ?Goodison Forever? brigade should take stock of a few harsh realities here. Let?s take our hearts off our sleeves and start talking facts:

• FACT 1: Liverpool?s new ground WILL be state of the art and WILL certainly overshadow GP.
  
  
• FACT 2: Their new ground will be even closer to Goodison Park, leaving Sky Sports, Alan Hansen and ?Lawro? the opportunity to fly over every Liverpool home game and compare it to the ?Old Lady? ? we will be laughing stocks!!
  
  
• FACT 3: Their new ground will have a bigger capacity, no doubt built by seasoned stadia builders and probably have some sort of class.
  
  
• FACT 4: Liverpool city council are not interested in Everton, never have been, never will.
  
  
• FACT 5: Previously mentioned/proposed locations, ie, south Liverpool, would also not be welcomed by the majority of the ?Walton is at the centre of the universe? brigade.
  
  
• FACT 6: Without Tesco, there is no other knight in shining armour who will bankroll this thing. Everton are not as marketable as Liverpool so what are people expecting?

With these glaringly obvious facts, surely any Evertonian can see that even if Everton could redevelop Goodison it will be far overshadowed by their new ground.

Staying put is now not an option; moving on to an area where we can once again stamp our own authority like we did many years ago when we left Anfield is a very real one. We could wait for Bill Gates to step in when he is sick and tired of flogging software but somehow I don?t think this is going to happen.

I would like to hear views on where Evertonian's think the relocation could happen:

1. Within the boundaries of Liverpool
2. Where it would not cause just as much controversy, ie. too far away from the Wilmslow!!

Please don?t continue with the ?we don?t care what the red side say? because it is obvious we DO care ? otherwise we would not be getting wound up by Liverpool?s recent lottery win!!!
Jamess Gardener, Chester  (9/2/07)

Accuracy

A number of people are sending in posts, as if they think they are talking on behalf of the majority of blues when they moan about Moyes. To those people that really don't need naming, it sounded like all the Everton fans in Anfield were singing Davey's name on Saturday.

After Neville scored against Newcastle five weeks ago, we had at least 30,000 singing Davey Moyes's name. My theory is we as a football club have maybe 2,000 moaners. Most of which probable sit in the Lower Bullens. Ten of which go around preeching their moans on different fanzine sites.

We don't accept under-achieving, but guys, it's not easy to be successful. Money does not matter: £10M for Albert Luque, or £1.25M for Tim Cahill? £6M for Boularuz, or £5M for Lescott? £19M for Reyes, or £2.5M for Arteta?

Everton are doing things the right way. Would you rather we had free-spending Sheddy Freppard, of Newcastle? Are O'Neil, Hughes, Curbishly, Jol, and Roeder, better than Moyes? I don't thinks so! I'd sooner Moyes kept getting bargains, with a little bit of lee-way for occasional mistakes, with our group of players getting more talented every year.

I'm confident, because other teams are wasting money, and yet we are improving at a quicker rate. Can you imagine Glen Roeder as Everton manager, Kevin Keagan anyone? It would be unbareable!
Dan O'Brien, Liverpool  (9/2/07)

Investment

After reading the article by Harry Harris in the Daily Express Thurs 8 Feb, we are one of seven premier clubs up for sale. A leading city expert in football takeovers states they are all available at the right price, so you start to think, what price is Kenwright asking for? ? if any?

I am very confident some investor must have been in touch with our leader, looked at the books, and said "sod that". We are still waiting for the guy from was it Proactive in Switzerland? Or am I dreaming?

The anti-Kenwright lobby is growing, and after Mr Gillette let it be known that he spoke to another premier side, "A very friendly club" but got no joy before getting involved with Liverpool... I suppose we will never find out, but surely we must appeal to some investor, somwhere...???
Norman Merrill, Everton  (9/2/07)

Arteta

Quick word on the rumours surrounding Mikel Arteta. It would be a disaster for us if he left, no player (in our team anyway) is irreplaceable but players of his quality certainly don't come cheap or easy to find (without Newcastle or Spurs offering double the wages).

However, I'm not overly worried by the press stories. Clearly he's said he would like to move back to Spain at some point but he's said that several times before and made it clear at the same time that he has no intention of leaving Everton in the forseeable future. As for the "right club", I seem to remember a previous interview where he made clear exactly which club that was, his boyhood team, Sociedad. So all in all I think, barring any major events in the meantime, Arteta will be lining up for us next season.

The guy strikes me as a man of principle and less interested in the money than some footballers. He seems happy just to be playing regular football at a high level.

ps: Anyone who listened to Radio 1 this morning and heard a Doncaster Rovers player describing his favourite thing about being a footballer (Money, money..... and money)... Need any more be said about the modern game?
John Holmes, York  (9/2/07)

Limping into Europe

A number of contributors have set their sights on Everton marching into Europe with 60 points by the end of the season. Looking at the fixture list and considering our uncertain form since early season, I reckon we shall do well to rake in another 18. In recent years a total of 54 points would just about see us limping into Europe via the dreaded Intertoto. Exciting innit?
Neil Maddock, Crosby  (9/2/07)

Some concerns

What has happened to Van der Meyde? He is not on the club's injury list and was supposed to play at Bournemouth?

I know fans are worried about the ground move, I visited Goodison Park again in July and although it brings back great memories it is looking old and shabby. Kirkby used to be part of Liverpool known as 'Newtown' in Z-Cars which is the theme tune the Blues run out to. So what's the problem, I know its rep but Speke, Nertherley and other less safe places are no better from my memory.

News re Arteta is worrying but I hope loyalty, which is a lost commodity in football these days, will stand for something. Finally after my questions about Da Silva some 9 months ago glad to see he has arrived.
Geoff Wells, Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia  (9/2/07)

Most Everton fans are stupid

Otherwise they would hang around after every match shouting "Kenwright out, Kenwright out." We had no problem running off Johnson when he started selling players but at least he had initially bought lots of players and also presided over our only trophy success since the mid-80s. I think the fans are pre-occupied with blaming Wyness for the (much needed) stadium move plans and Moyes for the lack of silverware when the man behind it all gets a free ride.
Kieran Kinsella, Gainesville, FL, USA  (9/2/07)