Season 2011-12 Fan Articles
Refereeing Decisions, Cheating, Horrendous Tackles etc?.
By John Schrempft :: 10/04/2012
69 Comments (»Last)
It may be my imagination, but it seems to me that recently, on MOTD, really poor decisions by the referee or the linesman have been discussed more frequently than usual. It could just be, by coincidence, that there have been more controversial incidents than on average.
Having said that, I really do wonder if a reform of the rules should take place: i.e.: retrospective video evidence which could even alter the result if necessary.
Amendments to the rules have been made, in the past, such as the introduction of substitutes and these have changed the face of football.
It can be argued that controversial decisions even themselves out over a season (what you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabouts) but red cards can be and are quite often rescinded on appeal. Goal line technology would certainly help as far as « goals » being disallowed are concerned when the ball had clearly crossed the line.
In a perfect world, match officials would see everything and always make the right decisions but they are only human after all and mistakes are made. One could of course say that?s part of the game such as when defenders make mistakes that lead to goals, but I believe video evidence would assist referees and linesmen to stamp out diving,cheating and Horrendous Tackles etc?.
I admit such a system would not be that easy to enforce but with improved video techniques and cheaper video equipment it would be possible to be employed in most matches.
There is of course the problem with deciding whether a penalty should have been given or not. One couldn?t award a penalty to the " victim team retrospectively because no-one would know whether the penalty taker would have been successful or not!
What does concern me too is the tendency for referees to be intimidated at the bigger stadiums and top clubs( either consciously or subconsciously). This seems to lead to some really big decisions being given in favour of such clubs which can often mean either the gaining of points deciding a championship (or relegation for a less successful team causing a considerable loss of revenue for a club).
I?ve brought this subject up again at this point because of the derby semi-final on Saturday. If the better side wins on the day, even if it?s the dark side, then fair enough but I?d be really devastated if they?d achieved it by cheating the match officials. It would also leave a nasty taste in the mouth if we were to win under such circumstances.
Reader Comments (69)
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Steve Sweeney
2 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:35:04
2 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:35:04
With All the Crying and Moaning Dogface has done coupled with his 2 MOTD dummies ,lets hope that the
referee on Saturday is strong and doesn't fall for the diving cheating bastards.
Dogleish was a master and his trwo apprenticies Stevie Me la and Klu Klux Suarez are quite capable of cheating them thropugh.
Fucking Gobshites I hate them, god this is gonna be a long long week.
referee on Saturday is strong and doesn't fall for the diving cheating bastards.
Dogleish was a master and his trwo apprenticies Stevie Me la and Klu Klux Suarez are quite capable of cheating them thropugh.
Fucking Gobshites I hate them, god this is gonna be a long long week.
Dave Brooks
3 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:39:49
3 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:39:49
Interesting points John. To be honest, it's pretty much all I talk about (football wise) with my old man these days.
My take on it has always been that it may, or may not, be getting worse... but that the difference over time is that 'we' get to see it more and more (and the officials don't).
When I first went to the match ('74) you were lucky if you got one static camera and the goals on MotD. Now I can watch every key decision over and over again. At home. A thousand miles away. From about six angles.
The discrepancy between what the officials can see and what spectators can see makes for unrest.
And FIFA's "technology can only be implemented if it's implemented at all levels of the game" defence is bollocks. Every World Cup they change the ball for the final... what could be more fundamental than that about a game?
My take on it has always been that it may, or may not, be getting worse... but that the difference over time is that 'we' get to see it more and more (and the officials don't).
When I first went to the match ('74) you were lucky if you got one static camera and the goals on MotD. Now I can watch every key decision over and over again. At home. A thousand miles away. From about six angles.
The discrepancy between what the officials can see and what spectators can see makes for unrest.
And FIFA's "technology can only be implemented if it's implemented at all levels of the game" defence is bollocks. Every World Cup they change the ball for the final... what could be more fundamental than that about a game?
Dave Brooks
4 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:46:08
4 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:46:08
Oh, Steve - I thought Kenny (with his 'conspiracy' talk) was just trying to psych Howard Webb out and get him on-side for a few penalties and red cards on Saturday...
James Martin
5 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:46:36
5 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:46:36
They have already ramped up the propaganda war on this front precisely for this reason. If Dalglish Hansen and Lawrenson moan enough about bad decisions then it increases the pressure on the ref to give them one to even it up. Same thing with their ridiculous identification of Jelavic as a play actor, yes what he did doesn't belong to Everton but it happens all the time over the park without attention. Despite having two great games of football the only messages that any referees owuld have picked up from Motd would have been, Jelavic is a cheat and Suarez deserves a penalty because he's being harshly treated. I don't think it owuld surprise any Evertonian if the merest touch (or non-touch) on Suarez in the box results in a penalty when a similar offence on jelavic will not yield anything. More people would watch a Chelsea Liverpool final and anyone linked financially to football including the media and the referees will be doing their utmost to make it so. Everton have to play twice as well as they need to overcome the powers stacked against them in this semi.
Dave Charles
6 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:50:12
6 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:50:12
Dave @918. It worked at Goodison earlier this season. Dalglish moaned about getting decisions on the build up to the game. He's doing it again so I hope Moyes wakes up to it this time.
Dave Brooks
7 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:59:59
7 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:59:59
I hope Howard Webb does, Dave @921.
Kevin Tully
8 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:58:47
8 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:58:47
You can be sure ant manager who plays the RS will have a word with the ref ; " Keep your eye on their number seven ref, he goes down easier than Katie price."
Or something along those lines.
They are all on to Suarez now, and don't want to look foolish or be conned by that cheating twat. Personally, I think Webb will be quite lenient on Saturday, and he won't want to be seen as biased towards those cheating scum.
I am feeling confident, 2-0 to the tricky blues, Jelavic & Cahill.
Or something along those lines.
They are all on to Suarez now, and don't want to look foolish or be conned by that cheating twat. Personally, I think Webb will be quite lenient on Saturday, and he won't want to be seen as biased towards those cheating scum.
I am feeling confident, 2-0 to the tricky blues, Jelavic & Cahill.
Roger Sunde
9 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:03:47
9 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:03:47
I don't understand how players can dive etc when literally millions are watching it on replay after.
Like Ashely Young this weekend, I would be ashamed and hide in a cave somewhere after diving like that.
Like Ashely Young this weekend, I would be ashamed and hide in a cave somewhere after diving like that.
Scott Hamilton
10 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:52:28
10 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:52:28
(Fuc)King Kenny and his conspiracy theories!
They have two ex-RS as pundits on MOTD, one full-time ex-RS on Sky (and the usual rent-a-mob to add to the numbers) plus the biggest red of all commentating on Radio 5 Live. UEFA changed the rules to let them into the CL when we finished 4th and let them keep the old CL trophy. FFS - they really do have a tough time...!!!
Hate is a strong word but after 40+ years of rubbing shoulders with their mean-spirited fans, listening to the bollocks perpetually spewed by their successive managers and having to stomach the crap that a biased sports media constantly peddles, I can honestly say that (deep breath) I hate them with every inch of my being. Past, present and future!
I realise that I have gone slightly off-thread here but there is a common theme. Hurry-up the FA and bring-in the likes of goal-line technology and a video replay assisted 5th official. At least then the "special team" from across the park will have no-one but themselves to blame for being, let's face it, utterly shit.
They have two ex-RS as pundits on MOTD, one full-time ex-RS on Sky (and the usual rent-a-mob to add to the numbers) plus the biggest red of all commentating on Radio 5 Live. UEFA changed the rules to let them into the CL when we finished 4th and let them keep the old CL trophy. FFS - they really do have a tough time...!!!
Hate is a strong word but after 40+ years of rubbing shoulders with their mean-spirited fans, listening to the bollocks perpetually spewed by their successive managers and having to stomach the crap that a biased sports media constantly peddles, I can honestly say that (deep breath) I hate them with every inch of my being. Past, present and future!
I realise that I have gone slightly off-thread here but there is a common theme. Hurry-up the FA and bring-in the likes of goal-line technology and a video replay assisted 5th official. At least then the "special team" from across the park will have no-one but themselves to blame for being, let's face it, utterly shit.
Stephen Sullivan
11 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:50:58
11 Posted 10/04/2012 at 15:50:58
Moyes should wait until Friday evening and then reel off a few of the dodgy decisions (over many years) that have gone for Liverpool and against Everton. He should smile when saying it and make a point of saying we will not be happy at all if Kenny's recent whinging about "things out of our control" etc has any influence on the game. Maybe a special mention of their habit of surrounding the referee to influence decisions too.
Moyes should highlight how Tim Howard has played in a recent FA Cup semi-final and has proven he can cope with the occasion (thereby placing a seed of doubt in their rookie goalkeeper's mind). We need to highlight the rookie keeper's inexperience as much as we can and rank up the pressure. You can be sure Dogleash would be doing that were Tim Howard suspended.
A couple of clangers at Blackburn tonight would be just great as the press will highlight it big style.
Moyes should highlight how Tim Howard has played in a recent FA Cup semi-final and has proven he can cope with the occasion (thereby placing a seed of doubt in their rookie goalkeeper's mind). We need to highlight the rookie keeper's inexperience as much as we can and rank up the pressure. You can be sure Dogleash would be doing that were Tim Howard suspended.
A couple of clangers at Blackburn tonight would be just great as the press will highlight it big style.
Andrew Ellams
12 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:15:30
12 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:15:30
If we need extra officials to help the existing ones with decisions like ones made by the idiot in the Chelsea v Wigan game, then to be honest the whole of football is screwed.
Tim Locke
13 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:01:29
13 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:01:29
With other major sporting eventing using technology to enhance the sport then football should follow. Why goal line technology is not used and penalty decision not referred I don't know. There is a definite need to make rules clearer, so handball in the area, why the rule can't be if he ball hits your hand/arm then it is indirect free kick and if deemed deliberate then a penalty. Why has a sin-bin not been introduced? Why can't teams appeal decisions like in tennis and cricket?
As for retrospective decisions, no sport has this and it would cause too many issues, titles being handed back, regulated teams getting reinstated, and that is not to mention the problems with book makers, the pools etc.
As for the other comments about 'King' Kenny and his merry men, who cares what they are saying. For the first time in years we have a better team, better form, better manager, better league position, the only thing not in our favour is Moyes record against Liverpool, but neutral ground should cancel that out. Bring on a Tot v Eve final.
As for retrospective decisions, no sport has this and it would cause too many issues, titles being handed back, regulated teams getting reinstated, and that is not to mention the problems with book makers, the pools etc.
As for the other comments about 'King' Kenny and his merry men, who cares what they are saying. For the first time in years we have a better team, better form, better manager, better league position, the only thing not in our favour is Moyes record against Liverpool, but neutral ground should cancel that out. Bring on a Tot v Eve final.
Trevor Lynes
14 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:16:32
14 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:16:32
Just a comment on the horrendous tackle by Balotelli and the castigating he got from many ex-pro footballers on the box. I really sat up when it was commented that Fergie would never have let him come out for the 2nd half... what hypocrisy!?!
Roy Keane was without doubt one of the dirtiest players in the league and deliberately ended the career of a Man City player (I forget his name) and even mentioned the incident in his book!!
Balotelli is a nutter but he is nothing new to football, there have been many who have played week-in and week-out with the full backing of their managers.
It was an awful tackle, but I've seen similar and worse.
Roy Keane was without doubt one of the dirtiest players in the league and deliberately ended the career of a Man City player (I forget his name) and even mentioned the incident in his book!!
Balotelli is a nutter but he is nothing new to football, there have been many who have played week-in and week-out with the full backing of their managers.
It was an awful tackle, but I've seen similar and worse.
Steve Pugh
15 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:34:03
15 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:34:03
Just to comment on Neil Warnocks after match comments the other day. He was saying that refs know the rules but they don't know the game, which is dead right and is why they fall for the cheating divers. He finished by saying that had the ref been better hen Leeds would have had a few more yellows and at least one more red card.
How many managers would have the balls to say that?
How many managers would have the balls to say that?
Andrew Ellams
16 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:41:42
16 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:41:42
This report is a bit ironic bearing in mind the history behind our next game.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17668965
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17668965
Shane Corcoran
17 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:45:07
17 Posted 10/04/2012 at 16:45:07
Well said Tim Locke. Who gives a shite what they're saying. My biggest fear is Moyes shitting himself cos he's up against what he sees as a superior team away from Goodison. As for Jelavic, I've noticed his antics before the weekend. In the replay against Sunderland he lay down constantly and I for one hate to see it so I'm glad it was highlighted. Back to the point of the thread. It's just another in a long list of things that makes the modern game shit. Forget extra officials. If anyone saw the penalty that wasn't given to Sanchez for Barcelona v Milan last week they'd know what I mean. Right in front of the extra official behind the goals and almost in slow motion yet he said no. Without video evidence the officials don't have a chance. Fair enough the assistant screwed Wigan big time (unintentionally I'm sure) at the weekend but I'm surprised they get as many correct as they do. That Chelsea penalty last night-I've looked at it half a dozen times and still can't figure out what happened. Then you have the likes of Neil Lennon and Ian Holloway saying they're passionate and should have the right to question referees. They don't. Just like a player or a fan can't confront a manager on the field if he makes a mistake. Until the officials are given the technology to make correct decisions and until these "perfect" players and managers respect the officials and accept that mistakes will be made then this chaos will continue. Rant over.
Peter Warren
18 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:24:13
18 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:24:13
John, I have a totally different opinion that you. I would love us to be absolutely garbage and win 1-0 thanks to a howler from the ref. That would be a perfect day and then week, two weeks, a month, years, listening to all them complaining and moaning that refs have it in for them.
Peter Foy
19 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:33:18
19 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:33:18
I think we're playing well enough to make the referee insignificant. He WILL cheat though. Hillsborough will simply get the better of him.
Despite this I reckon we're gonna murder the bastards. 1 0 or 2 0 isn't enough. I want to see the red shite end of wembley empty with 25 minutes to go.
For the first time ever before a derby I'm not in the slightest bit nervous.
Despite this I reckon we're gonna murder the bastards. 1 0 or 2 0 isn't enough. I want to see the red shite end of wembley empty with 25 minutes to go.
For the first time ever before a derby I'm not in the slightest bit nervous.
Nick Entwistle
20 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:42:45
20 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:42:45
I'm sure as sure can be that commentators and pundits cannot call players divers and cheats. How would McDonald's et al like players to stand in front of their logos when labelled this? When Carrol obviously went down against Newcastle even then it was difficult for them to be as harsh as they were as this one time was the most obvious. Alan Hansen lost BBC the England rights when he laid into their sub-par performances and any commentator would find themselves out of a job with the words 'diving cheat' leave their mouths.
Colin Gee
21 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:52:43
21 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:52:43
When the RS have a goal disallowed because of 'an infringement' (Clive Thomas) A goal disallowed because the Referee didn't know what to do as the ball rolled into the net off Hutchinson's arse so blew up early. (Graham Poll)
A blatent penalty turned down, Cahhragher on Lescott,(Clattenburg) only a yellow card when almost snapping an opponent in half, Kuyt on Neville(Clattenburg again) When Phil Neville is allowed to tell the referee to send a player off, Gerrard telling the ref to send Hibbert off.(Clattenburg again)
Getting a player sent off by being a cheating diving twat, Suraez on Rodwell. (Martin Atkinson)
Then they can bitch about refereeing decisions going against them...
Until then they can fuck off.
A blatent penalty turned down, Cahhragher on Lescott,(Clattenburg) only a yellow card when almost snapping an opponent in half, Kuyt on Neville(Clattenburg again) When Phil Neville is allowed to tell the referee to send a player off, Gerrard telling the ref to send Hibbert off.(Clattenburg again)
Getting a player sent off by being a cheating diving twat, Suraez on Rodwell. (Martin Atkinson)
Then they can bitch about refereeing decisions going against them...
Until then they can fuck off.
Mark Stone
22 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:57:39
22 Posted 10/04/2012 at 17:57:39
I think the solution is pretty simple for football. Follow the lead of tennis, cricket etc where players (or the captain) is allowed to challenge a decision. Teams are given two opportunities to challenge per game. If they challenge and it turns out they were correct then they keep them, if they challenge and it turns out the ref was correct then they lose one. This would benefit football in several ways. Firstly - less wrong decisions - and if the decision was wrong nobody can complain because the either a) the victims had the chance to challenge but chose not to - so they didn't disagree with the decision at the time proving it was a difficult one or b) they had already used up their challenges and had been proven wrong each time. Their own fault. Secondly, it would put and end to all of this arguing with the referee and diving around shenanigans. If you dive and don't get the decision you can challenge - but all you'd succeed in doing is getting yourself booked. If there is a dive against you, and the cheat wins a pen/free kick you can challenge it, ref makes the right decision and books the diver. It would put and end to diving overnight. Crowd round the ref arguing about a decision, he says - ok no probs lets watch it back. He gets the decision right and you lose a challenge.
Why won't it happen? Because the G14 don't want it to, because they know more decisions go there way than not.
Why won't it happen? Because the G14 don't want it to, because they know more decisions go there way than not.
Mark Stone
23 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:10:29
23 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:10:29
Trevor, Alfe Inge Haaland. Incidently, that tackle didn't end his career - it was an injury to his other knee that did that. I believe Halaand actually finished that game and played several afterwards. But the intent was there from Keane, and that is enough. So I agree with you - unashamed hypocrasy from Fergie.
In the defence of Mancini, he said to the press after the match that he hopes Balotelli is punished retrospectively.
In the defence of Mancini, he said to the press after the match that he hopes Balotelli is punished retrospectively.
Barry Rathbone
24 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:07:45
24 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:07:45
Always appears the better teams get the rub of the green the refs decisions etc.
It ain't so, them being better is the deciding factor.
People need to knock this whining about bad luck/refs etc on the head we need to impose and dominate the shite from minute one.
Make no mistake they will kick, bite and scream but at this moment I'd pick our squad over theirs every day of the week.
It's ours to lose not theirs to win.
Grind the fuckers into the dust.
It ain't so, them being better is the deciding factor.
People need to knock this whining about bad luck/refs etc on the head we need to impose and dominate the shite from minute one.
Make no mistake they will kick, bite and scream but at this moment I'd pick our squad over theirs every day of the week.
It's ours to lose not theirs to win.
Grind the fuckers into the dust.
Mark Riding
25 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:15:11
25 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:15:11
Through work I know a man who is a football league referee. His top level is The Championship ( never done prem as a ref ).
The other week he gave a descision to give a goal, that he didnt see, on the say-so of his linesman. The opposing players kicked off immediately as the ball hadnt crossed the line, he said by the players reaction he knew it was the wrong descision, but the goal was given. The Ref was told in his ear, just as play was kicking off again that it shouldnt have been given.
So, I suppose my point is, the technology is already there and is easily used.
The worry is that Webb may 'owe' them one from earlier in the season.. shit, he may well 'owe' us one.
Referees are not players or celebrities, but they think they are. Clattenburgs hair transplant shows how vain the man is for example..
A fair fight on Saturday and we will knock them out.
The other week he gave a descision to give a goal, that he didnt see, on the say-so of his linesman. The opposing players kicked off immediately as the ball hadnt crossed the line, he said by the players reaction he knew it was the wrong descision, but the goal was given. The Ref was told in his ear, just as play was kicking off again that it shouldnt have been given.
So, I suppose my point is, the technology is already there and is easily used.
The worry is that Webb may 'owe' them one from earlier in the season.. shit, he may well 'owe' us one.
Referees are not players or celebrities, but they think they are. Clattenburgs hair transplant shows how vain the man is for example..
A fair fight on Saturday and we will knock them out.
Jim Burns
26 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:19:35
26 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:19:35
Many of the comments on this thread ( not all) reflect exactly why we get mind gamed out of the match before we even start. If the players are reading them, God help us.
I've been watching Everton for over 38 years and have seen and suffered all the decisions and cheating that we, as the true half of football on Merseyside have had engrained in our being.
However, this time, FFS lads -forget it....wipe it from your collective minds - or we ARE fucked.
I have never been more confident at beating these whinging shower of dicks before. Fellaini tight on Gerrard, and Heitenger tight on Suarez.....game over.
Stop worrying - the only history that matters is that starting at 12.30 on Saturday and we WILL beat them.
I've been watching Everton for over 38 years and have seen and suffered all the decisions and cheating that we, as the true half of football on Merseyside have had engrained in our being.
However, this time, FFS lads -forget it....wipe it from your collective minds - or we ARE fucked.
I have never been more confident at beating these whinging shower of dicks before. Fellaini tight on Gerrard, and Heitenger tight on Suarez.....game over.
Stop worrying - the only history that matters is that starting at 12.30 on Saturday and we WILL beat them.
Stephen Sullivan
27 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:17:06
27 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:17:06
Scott (929) Re the biased reporting on MOTD last night by Hanson and Lawrenson ie singling out just Pienaar and no mention of any other player and then highlighting the fact he is unavailable for the semi final (with smirks on their faces).
Not to mention the "love in" between Dalglish, Hanson, Lawrenson and Shearer. Even switching to radio 5 a staunch red dominates (Alan Green).
Why not make a complaint?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
It only takes 5minutes. The more complaints received the more pressure on the likes of Hanson to resist playing mind games against Everton prior to big games with Liverpool.
I politely requested that they bare in mind that the Hillsborough disaster affected thousands of Everton fans too through loss of family/friends and that this is not an exclusively Liverpool FC thing
I
Not to mention the "love in" between Dalglish, Hanson, Lawrenson and Shearer. Even switching to radio 5 a staunch red dominates (Alan Green).
Why not make a complaint?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
It only takes 5minutes. The more complaints received the more pressure on the likes of Hanson to resist playing mind games against Everton prior to big games with Liverpool.
I politely requested that they bare in mind that the Hillsborough disaster affected thousands of Everton fans too through loss of family/friends and that this is not an exclusively Liverpool FC thing
I
Stephen Sullivan
28 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:29:50
28 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:29:50
Jim (996)
I agree to a point
However, the "mind games" DO influence referees and so we need to be mindful of them and throw a few back.
Dalglish mentioned in a recent interview that maybe his players should start challenging referees and not being so nice?
And there's me thinking they were the world's worst at doing that? Especially Carragher, Gerrard and Pepe "sprint the length of the field to contest a throw in" Reina.
I agree to a point
However, the "mind games" DO influence referees and so we need to be mindful of them and throw a few back.
Dalglish mentioned in a recent interview that maybe his players should start challenging referees and not being so nice?
And there's me thinking they were the world's worst at doing that? Especially Carragher, Gerrard and Pepe "sprint the length of the field to contest a throw in" Reina.
Keith Glazzard
29 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:04:54
29 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:04:54
We should have demanded that Clattenberg ref this one. Surely a jail sentence would have awaited if he did what he did last time.
Dalgleish. Delusinal. His family could possibly have him sectioned.
FIFA, UEFA or the FA doing anything about what we are supposed to be talking about will happen roughly the time that their officials agree to work for the minimum wage.
Dalgleish. Delusinal. His family could possibly have him sectioned.
FIFA, UEFA or the FA doing anything about what we are supposed to be talking about will happen roughly the time that their officials agree to work for the minimum wage.
Bobby Thomas
30 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:26:54
30 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:26:54
Great thread this and there have been some very valid shouts as to how things could be improved.
We all have our take on things, but in my time watching the game the main conclusion ive drawn is that the refs are people and, you just cant change people.
Remember when Clinton turned up and gave a speech at the Labour Party conference. Blair, Brown, Prescott(!) all sat there starry eyed. They were star struck.
Bit like that with the refs. They want to be at the top of the game, rub shoulders with the big stars, first name terms, "do you wanna take it quick Thierry?".
The Clattenberg derby was worst example of this new breed of referee, although it has always been there to a certain extent.
Big players pressure referees, Bryan Robson was of the opinion that if you gave them enough stick eventually you would get something. Moyes needs to up the ante this week, Dalglish, Gerrard and co know the drill, we need to combat it.
We all have our take on things, but in my time watching the game the main conclusion ive drawn is that the refs are people and, you just cant change people.
Remember when Clinton turned up and gave a speech at the Labour Party conference. Blair, Brown, Prescott(!) all sat there starry eyed. They were star struck.
Bit like that with the refs. They want to be at the top of the game, rub shoulders with the big stars, first name terms, "do you wanna take it quick Thierry?".
The Clattenberg derby was worst example of this new breed of referee, although it has always been there to a certain extent.
Big players pressure referees, Bryan Robson was of the opinion that if you gave them enough stick eventually you would get something. Moyes needs to up the ante this week, Dalglish, Gerrard and co know the drill, we need to combat it.
James Stewart
31 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:56:13
31 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:56:13
Decisions have been very poor this season. Not just in Everton matches either. The Chelsea penalty was a joke against Fulham for example.
I would personally prefer to see video replays and cameras used to get the big calls right. It would certainly cut out a lot of play acting and diving. So what if it breaks up the game for 30 secs at the decision will be right. Each team should be allowed 3 video replays etc per match as in Cricket.
I would personally prefer to see video replays and cameras used to get the big calls right. It would certainly cut out a lot of play acting and diving. So what if it breaks up the game for 30 secs at the decision will be right. Each team should be allowed 3 video replays etc per match as in Cricket.
John Schrempft
32 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:24:21
32 Posted 10/04/2012 at 18:24:21
Some very interesting and good ideas here, so many thanks to everybody for the response.
Tim (934) You're right about the retrospective aspect. However, that could be made to apply only to incidents like bad tackles.
Mark(986) I like that idea about having 2 challenges. It would be good if only the captain were to make these challenges. What I thoroughly dislike is players surrounding the ref and giving un-called- for advice.
I watched the beginning of the Manu-QPR
game. The wrong offside decision was bad enough but Ashley Young's dive was just too much. First, a player of his calibre shouldn't need to do that and I just switched the TV off. I expected the Mancs were going to win before the incident but the game was ruined as a spectacle with 10 against 11
Barry (992) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "better" teams. Better at diving, cheating, pressurising the ref or just better at playing football?
However, I do agree that we should dominate the RS and grind them into the dust.
Tim (934) You're right about the retrospective aspect. However, that could be made to apply only to incidents like bad tackles.
Mark(986) I like that idea about having 2 challenges. It would be good if only the captain were to make these challenges. What I thoroughly dislike is players surrounding the ref and giving un-called- for advice.
I watched the beginning of the Manu-QPR
game. The wrong offside decision was bad enough but Ashley Young's dive was just too much. First, a player of his calibre shouldn't need to do that and I just switched the TV off. I expected the Mancs were going to win before the incident but the game was ruined as a spectacle with 10 against 11
Barry (992) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "better" teams. Better at diving, cheating, pressurising the ref or just better at playing football?
However, I do agree that we should dominate the RS and grind them into the dust.
Jamie Barlow
33 Posted 10/04/2012 at 19:28:11
33 Posted 10/04/2012 at 19:28:11
Mark Stone, I phoned into The Football Legends phone in about 6 years ago and said more or less what you've just said concerning the 2 "challenges".
The good thing about it is you wouldn't even have to use them as just having them to use would be enough to stamp out all the cheating and diving.
The good thing about it is you wouldn't even have to use them as just having them to use would be enough to stamp out all the cheating and diving.
Brian Waring
34 Posted 10/04/2012 at 19:41:39
34 Posted 10/04/2012 at 19:41:39
I agree with Kevin (#926) the refs are picking up on Suarez now, and he's not getting any decisions, even the legitimate ones.
Keith Glazzard
35 Posted 10/04/2012 at 20:42:56
35 Posted 10/04/2012 at 20:42:56
So far in the RS game against Blackburn we have seen a red player on a yellow not given a second. When their keeper was sent off - quite correctly - their manager substituted, guess who? The one who should have been off anyway. Kenny will no doubt complain that he has to do the ref's job for him.
James Martin
36 Posted 10/04/2012 at 20:58:30
36 Posted 10/04/2012 at 20:58:30
Keith I'd usually agree with you but we got away with it big time against Norwich with Baines.
John Nugent
37 Posted 10/04/2012 at 22:53:08
37 Posted 10/04/2012 at 22:53:08
Stephen #997.
Done.
Done.
Paul David
38 Posted 10/04/2012 at 23:21:18
38 Posted 10/04/2012 at 23:21:18
I can't believe the powers that be still don't punish anyone after games and by not doing so it encourages players to cheat.
Ballotelli should have been given a 5 game ban for the tackle on Song,Young should be given the same for diving against Q.P.R.
Ballotelli should have been given a 5 game ban for the tackle on Song,Young should be given the same for diving against Q.P.R.
Stephen Sullivan
39 Posted 10/04/2012 at 23:54:45
39 Posted 10/04/2012 at 23:54:45
John (124)
Well done
We have to have are rights protected. Complaining in a proper manner can change things especially if done in numbers. Gets rid of a bit of frustration too
I wrote to talksport a few months ago about Alan Brazil and his sidekick Ronnie "freebie" whatshisname. They pissed me off so much with their boasting about freebies, namedropping and arse licking famous people especially some of those rich bankers coining it at Barkleys bank.
I complained and received a goodie bag a few days later. Opened the bag to discover a t-shirt with Alan Brazil's face on it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
Well done
We have to have are rights protected. Complaining in a proper manner can change things especially if done in numbers. Gets rid of a bit of frustration too
I wrote to talksport a few months ago about Alan Brazil and his sidekick Ronnie "freebie" whatshisname. They pissed me off so much with their boasting about freebies, namedropping and arse licking famous people especially some of those rich bankers coining it at Barkleys bank.
I complained and received a goodie bag a few days later. Opened the bag to discover a t-shirt with Alan Brazil's face on it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
Simon Temme
40 Posted 11/04/2012 at 00:28:27
40 Posted 11/04/2012 at 00:28:27
Scott #929
Well said, I feel like Hunter s Thompson towards the shite "Fear & Loathing".
Loathing for all they have had and will keep having.....Fear because no matter what we try to do the spawn always side with the devil.
COYB..............Please
Well said, I feel like Hunter s Thompson towards the shite "Fear & Loathing".
Loathing for all they have had and will keep having.....Fear because no matter what we try to do the spawn always side with the devil.
COYB..............Please
Stephen Sullivan
41 Posted 11/04/2012 at 00:41:16
41 Posted 11/04/2012 at 00:41:16
Scott 929
Don't worry
It's our day
April 14th is perfect
Glad they brought the game forward from 15th now
Why?
Because...........
Apr 14 1984 - Adrian Heath's late extra time goal defeats Southampton 1-0 in the FA Cup Semi-Final at Highbury.
Don't worry
It's our day
April 14th is perfect
Glad they brought the game forward from 15th now
Why?
Because...........
Apr 14 1984 - Adrian Heath's late extra time goal defeats Southampton 1-0 in the FA Cup Semi-Final at Highbury.
Dick Fearon
42 Posted 11/04/2012 at 03:32:39
42 Posted 11/04/2012 at 03:32:39
A good ref, they used to say, is one that is not noticed. Howard Webb is definitely noy one of those. He enjoys being the centre of attention. He sent our Johnnie off in a world cup semi so this one won't faze him. Then again refereeing standards as a whole have dived with inconsistency being the worst thing.
Dick Fearon
43 Posted 11/04/2012 at 03:49:57
43 Posted 11/04/2012 at 03:49:57
Feigned injury would be the easiest to sort out. All thats needed is for the 'injured' player not to be allowed to rejoin the game for a minimum 5 minutes or in the case of head injury, 10 minutes.
If the injuries are genuine would need that time for proper treatment and assessment.
If the injuries are genuine would need that time for proper treatment and assessment.
David Nelson
44 Posted 11/04/2012 at 08:29:52
44 Posted 11/04/2012 at 08:29:52
Type or paste your comment here. No txt-speak, please try to use proper grammar, all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Scott Hamilton
45 Posted 11/04/2012 at 09:07:12
45 Posted 11/04/2012 at 09:07:12
Stephen (997) - Done.
Calling all Toffeewebbers, as per Stephen's suggestion, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
and complain about the BBC's bias towards the RS
Calling all Toffeewebbers, as per Stephen's suggestion, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
and complain about the BBC's bias towards the RS
Mike Gwyer
46 Posted 11/04/2012 at 09:09:58
46 Posted 11/04/2012 at 09:09:58
Stephen #147.
Was there mate - cracking game which Southampton dominated. We were busy setting up the trip to Stoke (for the replay) when Inchy scored. Then cue absolute bedlam amongst the blues.
Dick #163.
Think that world cup final was the dirtiest game I've ever seen - Webb could of sent off several players and still looked leniant. Johnny deserved what he got. IMO those dirty diving RS fuckers need a ref who can handle them. Take a look at the number of yellow cards they have taken over their past 5 games - we will need a ref who won't bottle it.
Tony J Williams
47 Posted 11/04/2012 at 09:03:44
47 Posted 11/04/2012 at 09:03:44
I like that idea Dick, but how is that any advantage if a player is genuinely hurt by a foul...he can't then come back on and the fouling team have an advantage for 5 minutes.
I like the challenge idea too, it'll never come in though, the "big" teams have too much to lose and it will be shown how many wrong decisions go their way.
"Why has a sin-bin not been introduced?" - With all due respect......feck off!
I like the challenge idea too, it'll never come in though, the "big" teams have too much to lose and it will be shown how many wrong decisions go their way.
"Why has a sin-bin not been introduced?" - With all due respect......feck off!
Derek Thomas
48 Posted 11/04/2012 at 10:48:16
48 Posted 11/04/2012 at 10:48:16
So Martinez got an apology and was NOT fined for telling the truth. What about the points lost that could relegate his team and cost them millions.
Matt Traynor
49 Posted 11/04/2012 at 12:49:54
49 Posted 11/04/2012 at 12:49:54
This mantra about decisions evening themselves out is utter bollocks. If you had a list of every contentious decision that teams faced and aggregated them up over the course of a season, their would be a bias in favour of the bigger teams, especially at home.
The only time that mantra is trotted out is when one of the big teams is sinned against - but usually it is against another big team. Dalglish is bitching now as Liverpool are a mid table team, so are seeing what we've been seeing for years.
The "Hackney Marshes" argument about introducing rule changes at every level is also bollocks. The Europa League has 2 extra match officials, domestic leagues don't.
Given there's around 20 cameras now at all Premier League games, and sufficient camera coverage at all Championship games, they could easily introduce it.
They won't, as someone else pointed out the G-14 won't wear it. Before anyone says the G-14 don't exist anymore, their cartel like behaviour is alive and well. It's on the conference circuit.
The only time that mantra is trotted out is when one of the big teams is sinned against - but usually it is against another big team. Dalglish is bitching now as Liverpool are a mid table team, so are seeing what we've been seeing for years.
The "Hackney Marshes" argument about introducing rule changes at every level is also bollocks. The Europa League has 2 extra match officials, domestic leagues don't.
Given there's around 20 cameras now at all Premier League games, and sufficient camera coverage at all Championship games, they could easily introduce it.
They won't, as someone else pointed out the G-14 won't wear it. Before anyone says the G-14 don't exist anymore, their cartel like behaviour is alive and well. It's on the conference circuit.
John Schrempft
50 Posted 11/04/2012 at 14:08:50
50 Posted 11/04/2012 at 14:08:50
Matt (245),
Sad to say, I think you're probably right.
My wife who is Swiss, used to work for FIFA in London under Denis Followes and also met Sir Stanley Rouse on many occasions.
( I hope I've spelled the names correctly!)
She got the job because she speaks 5 languages fluently and could talk to referees from Switzerland,France, Spain, Italy, Germany, and England. In fact, her grammatical English is better than mine!
I'm not trying to boast about her, but sometimes I feel I should start a campaign on a rule change which would be spread throughout those countries which speak English,French, German, Spanish,and Italian
China and Russia's football elite speak English anyway, but an awful lot of people in the world speak the other languages
I've mentioned above......
Moreover , Sepp Blunder (oops Blatter
who's Swiss) will be going soon thank goodness. Believe you me, he's not well thought of here. He's not even popular where comes from: Canton Wallis.
Worth a try don't you tnink?
After all:
Nothing ventured, nothing gained and an Internet campaign nowadays can move a lot of people. There are even websites that do campaigns too......
Sad to say, I think you're probably right.
My wife who is Swiss, used to work for FIFA in London under Denis Followes and also met Sir Stanley Rouse on many occasions.
( I hope I've spelled the names correctly!)
She got the job because she speaks 5 languages fluently and could talk to referees from Switzerland,France, Spain, Italy, Germany, and England. In fact, her grammatical English is better than mine!
I'm not trying to boast about her, but sometimes I feel I should start a campaign on a rule change which would be spread throughout those countries which speak English,French, German, Spanish,and Italian
China and Russia's football elite speak English anyway, but an awful lot of people in the world speak the other languages
I've mentioned above......
Moreover , Sepp Blunder (oops Blatter
who's Swiss) will be going soon thank goodness. Believe you me, he's not well thought of here. He's not even popular where comes from: Canton Wallis.
Worth a try don't you tnink?
After all:
Nothing ventured, nothing gained and an Internet campaign nowadays can move a lot of people. There are even websites that do campaigns too......
John Schrempft
51 Posted 11/04/2012 at 14:27:38
51 Posted 11/04/2012 at 14:27:38
I'm beginning to feel I've stirred up a hornets nest here.....
Sorry about the careless editing and the spelling mistakes!
Sorry about the careless editing and the spelling mistakes!
Tony J Williams
52 Posted 11/04/2012 at 14:28:36
52 Posted 11/04/2012 at 14:28:36
Septic Bladder can feck off too!!
Thomas Williams
53 Posted 11/04/2012 at 18:32:13
53 Posted 11/04/2012 at 18:32:13
Chelsea are getting decisions given them so Sky can keep the majority of their big 4, they dont want Spurs in Cl, the same will happen to Newcastle now as well.
Nick Entwistle
54 Posted 11/04/2012 at 19:42:11
54 Posted 11/04/2012 at 19:42:11
Steven Gerrard on Everton...
?They have grown to despise me because I score against them so regularly,? he says. ?And because I keep saying I love beating Everton.? From the Echo.
I know this is off topic a bit - but you're wrong you shit hair cut tosser. You're a diver, and a cheat. You're antics wouldn't stand at Everton and you punch DJs in the face when you're backed up 5 to 1 with your toss pot cohorts. If you played for Everton I'd jack it in. There are many Reds who score against us, and say they love to beat us, and yes we do hate them a lot. But not for the reasons we hate you, you shoddy individual.
Ahhhhgh, you're not reading this because you prefer the worst fans in Europe and racist team mates. Twat. I literally turn away when I see your farcical face on TV.
?They have grown to despise me because I score against them so regularly,? he says. ?And because I keep saying I love beating Everton.? From the Echo.
I know this is off topic a bit - but you're wrong you shit hair cut tosser. You're a diver, and a cheat. You're antics wouldn't stand at Everton and you punch DJs in the face when you're backed up 5 to 1 with your toss pot cohorts. If you played for Everton I'd jack it in. There are many Reds who score against us, and say they love to beat us, and yes we do hate them a lot. But not for the reasons we hate you, you shoddy individual.
Ahhhhgh, you're not reading this because you prefer the worst fans in Europe and racist team mates. Twat. I literally turn away when I see your farcical face on TV.
Andy Crooks
55 Posted 11/04/2012 at 19:52:59
55 Posted 11/04/2012 at 19:52:59
Spot on Nick, you can have all the money in the world and all the talent and opportunities. Class and dignity are, however , born and bred, Gerrard has neither.
Stephen Sullivan
56 Posted 11/04/2012 at 21:47:07
56 Posted 11/04/2012 at 21:47:07
Nick
When you see him sign a kids autograph for the cameras but not have the decency to look the child in the eye, or smile, or at least say a word, then it tells you all you need to know?
I have seen him do this many times most recently at the start of Liverpool's game at Blackburn.
When you see him sign a kids autograph for the cameras but not have the decency to look the child in the eye, or smile, or at least say a word, then it tells you all you need to know?
I have seen him do this many times most recently at the start of Liverpool's game at Blackburn.
Dean Adams
57 Posted 11/04/2012 at 22:41:23
57 Posted 11/04/2012 at 22:41:23
Nick Entwistle 400
Precisely
Precisely
John Atkins
58 Posted 11/04/2012 at 21:41:22
58 Posted 11/04/2012 at 21:41:22
Scott #184,
Thanks for the link.
Have just registered my complaint, urge more...
Thanks for the link.
Have just registered my complaint, urge more...
Stephen Sullivan
59 Posted 12/04/2012 at 00:15:58
59 Posted 12/04/2012 at 00:15:58
John (#451).
Please try anything you can to help it go viral ie forward link to the likes of facebook/twitter etc. Every formal complaint to BBC tv/radio, ESPN, FA headquarters etc can help and make a difference.
We have just a few hours to make it clear to the powers that be that LFC have no right to hijack the cup semi final and in doing seek to gain an advantage.
I bet Moyes would advocate mass complaints from Evertonians but could hardly suggest such a thing for fear of retribution from the unenlightened?
Please try anything you can to help it go viral ie forward link to the likes of facebook/twitter etc. Every formal complaint to BBC tv/radio, ESPN, FA headquarters etc can help and make a difference.
We have just a few hours to make it clear to the powers that be that LFC have no right to hijack the cup semi final and in doing seek to gain an advantage.
I bet Moyes would advocate mass complaints from Evertonians but could hardly suggest such a thing for fear of retribution from the unenlightened?
James Martin
60 Posted 12/04/2012 at 00:42:23
60 Posted 12/04/2012 at 00:42:23
Seen this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/11/everton-davis-moyes-liverpool-referees?newsfeed=true
Finally Moyes hitting back at Dalglish's ridiculous attempts to influence the referee. Sad state of affairs when you have to highlight to the media that referees in football matches should be fair. Dig at Dalglish, compliment to Webb, Everton look good, and Liverpool look like the whining cheats they are. Masterful media handling from Moyes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/11/everton-davis-moyes-liverpool-referees?newsfeed=true
Finally Moyes hitting back at Dalglish's ridiculous attempts to influence the referee. Sad state of affairs when you have to highlight to the media that referees in football matches should be fair. Dig at Dalglish, compliment to Webb, Everton look good, and Liverpool look like the whining cheats they are. Masterful media handling from Moyes.
Terry Fearn
61 Posted 12/04/2012 at 00:51:22
61 Posted 12/04/2012 at 00:51:22
We are the better team. Lets not get caught up in talk about referees or Dalglish. Just go out there on Saturday and play them of the park.
COYB!!
COYB!!
Michael Summers
62 Posted 12/04/2012 at 07:07:07
62 Posted 12/04/2012 at 07:07:07
Just watched highlights of the Shites game last night... Can any one tell me why Brad Jones was not sent off?
He was the last man because he was on his fucking line! The ref gives a pen then a yellow when it's a blatant red.
Like I said, can someone tell why he was not sent off?
Nick Entwistle
63 Posted 12/04/2012 at 07:15:42
63 Posted 12/04/2012 at 07:15:42
Probably because Yakubu's touch took the ball out of his control and towards the defender to clear. He lost the goal scoring chance.
Anyway, if he was sent off wouldn't they bring in a better 'emergency-loan' 'keeper rather than their youth 'keeper?
Anyway, if he was sent off wouldn't they bring in a better 'emergency-loan' 'keeper rather than their youth 'keeper?
Jamie Tulacz
64 Posted 12/04/2012 at 08:33:34
64 Posted 12/04/2012 at 08:33:34
Nick- apparently they're not allowed to bring in an emergency loan keeper for suspensions only for injuries
John Nugent
65 Posted 12/04/2012 at 19:46:13
65 Posted 12/04/2012 at 19:46:13
Stephen Sullivan- Dont get me started on talkSPORT.
The annual 'Adrian Durham, the redshite are everyones 2nd team'.
Mark Saggers dismissing us as 'nowhere near as big as Spurs'.
The pre-season 'who are spurs going to knock out the top 4'.
Listening to Irani and Goughie talk about football!!! (cringe)
I hope you flossed your arse with the Alan Brazil T-shirt.
As for complaining to the BBC about bias towards the shite, here's the link http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
The annual 'Adrian Durham, the redshite are everyones 2nd team'.
Mark Saggers dismissing us as 'nowhere near as big as Spurs'.
The pre-season 'who are spurs going to knock out the top 4'.
Listening to Irani and Goughie talk about football!!! (cringe)
I hope you flossed your arse with the Alan Brazil T-shirt.
As for complaining to the BBC about bias towards the shite, here's the link http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/
Jim Knightley
66 Posted 12/04/2012 at 20:18:15
66 Posted 12/04/2012 at 20:18:15
TalkSPORT is horrendous...The anti-Arsenal bias is insane as well! they were moaning about Arsenal celebrating the 95th minute winner against Newcastle, as if it was a unnatural thing to do...And they come out with so much shit on a consistent basis.
John Nugent
67 Posted 12/04/2012 at 20:43:26
67 Posted 12/04/2012 at 20:43:26
Danny Kelly's on now talking about the shite, saying how Klu Klux Kenny should be knighted!!!
Jesus Christ!!! (puke)
*switches off*
Jesus Christ!!! (puke)
*switches off*
John Keating
68 Posted 13/04/2012 at 06:19:56
68 Posted 13/04/2012 at 06:19:56
Rather than have MotD or Goals on Sunday they should have Dives Of The Day and embarrass these bastards ? including Jelavic.
It might change some of these arseholes, however, not Dalgleish and KK Suarez as they can't see anything wrong.
It might change some of these arseholes, however, not Dalgleish and KK Suarez as they can't see anything wrong.
Gary Mortimer
69 Posted 13/04/2012 at 18:52:05
69 Posted 13/04/2012 at 18:52:05
Classic from Talkshite this morning that just shows how blinkered they are :-
"After 8 we're going to be speaking to Ex Liverpool legend Peter Beardsley"
I didn't wait to see if he told them he played for us as well.
"After 8 we're going to be speaking to Ex Liverpool legend Peter Beardsley"
I didn't wait to see if he told them he played for us as well.
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1 Posted 10/04/2012 at 14:59:57
He specifically cited the incident where Mario Botelli raked his studs down Song's shin ? referee Martin Atkinson was unsighted by players but the fourth official had a clear view.