The Burnley boss has been among the favourites to replace Ronald Koeman since the Dutchman was sacked last week and has seen the odds on him becoming the new man at the Everton helm shorten since the Blues' defeat at Leicester on Sunday.
The Lancashire Evening Post have since played down the suggestions, insisting that Dyche will remain with the Clarets.
Reader Comments (357)
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1 Posted 31/10/2017 at 13:46:43
We just need a steady and no-nonesense hand, with the ability to get us winning games and climbing up the table, to the mid-table or slightly higher position where we appear to belong. Any bigger ambitions would require an appropriate level of cash to support them. And we appear not to be in that position.
2 Posted 31/10/2017 at 13:47:09
3 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:00:27
I don't know what age you are but I started supporting this club in the 70's and it wasn't then and isn't now to ever accept mediocrity.
If the club fails to have any ambition beyond best of the rest, then to me there's little point and a Dyche appointment, to me shows no ambition. There's not a top club across Europe that would give him a second look and neither should we.
Add Sam, Moyes, Neville Giggs etc. to that list also.
4 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:05:17
5 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:15:50
6 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:16:42
We won't attract any of the "top" managers because they don't see us as a top club & we won't offer them the sort of budget they'd want. At the moment many would also see the job as something of a poisoned chalice. That being the case, I see little point in swapping like for like.
Unsworth's had 2 matches at very short notice & we've already seen noticeable improvement, he is also further ahead in terms of familiarisation with the squad of players. He may not develop into a great manager & win any silverware for the Club, but I reckon he is capable of dragging us clear of the relegation trap-door. If he is then not considered the man the take the Club any further, a proper recruitment can take place at the season's end.
7 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:17:48
8 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:24:37
9 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:26:11
Yes I know Unsworth 'gets' the club but he's got absolutely no experience and didn't exactly play under loads of great managers to learn the trade. And the U23s is no substitute for the premiership (please don't go there). Also at 44, if he had serious managerial ambitions, what's he been doing with the U23s for the last 4 years? Why hasn't he gone to learn the trade at a league 1 or championship club? Maybe life at Everton got a bit too cosy under BK? (Also for the likes of Elstone, Ebbrell, Jeffries, Sharpe, Ferguson, etc - all tow the party line). After being in the coaching staff for 7 years, this would be his first ever managerial appointment. The only other experience being a few caretaker games at PNE and one at Everton - do we really want to take the chance? Really??? Just because he's an ex player? That plus the U23s seems to be the only attributes I've read on TW for putting him in charge!
I was so made up when RK came but he turned out not to be the answer. Although, after getting us 7th last year, it's a question as to how much of the blame really lies at his door with BK still at the club. RK said from day one end of last season he wanted a striker (target man, not Sandro or Rooney) and a left sided defender, neither materialised even though the club had 4 months to sign them. Who's really to blame here? He did alienate 3-4 senior players which was never going to work but getting rid of RK alone is, imo, not going to take us forward.
The club needs to get rid of BK first and foremost and most of the sorry board who've had life far too cushy for far too long. Only goal at EFC for the best part of 20 years has been 'Do Not Get Relegated' - nothing more nothing less. Zero ambition beyond this and amateurs running the club for the most part, amazed that they are in the position they're. No one ever wants to rock the boat for fear they'll be turfed out.
Just depressing, was really hoping Moshiri would get rid of most of the board (if not all) and put in a much more professional set up but there doesn't seem to have been much change since he came in.
We're now down to actually thinking of bring in the crook Allardyce with his anti football to our dug out! Sorry day for the club an I hope all the rumours are bollocks and we bring someone decent in, whoever that may be.
We do have some decent players in the squad. Just needs a manager who knows what he's doing to get them to play like they know how in a system they can understand.
10 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:27:27
I'm with you regarding a top manager coming to us.
There is an idealistic view to this that I do understand.
Then there is realism. I'm not saying accept mediocrity just comprehend our league position, finances, squad and current standing in the Premiership.
11 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:29:37
12 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:41:25
13 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:42:53
After most of us welcomed Koeman as the possible right man we have all been shocked by his total incompetance.
Of course, you can only do a good job if you have the right tools and maybe the jury is still out on that one.
Sure losing Lukaku may have been a factor and having some other players out with long term injuries can also contribute but most of us were right to assume that with the new signings and the emergence of some talented youth that they would not be as bad as they have become.
It may have been a good thing that the problems have surfaced now and not in the new year when time for recovery becomes a really desperate situation.
Dyche has done a decent job at Burnley with limited funding as their results have shown this season. Whether or not he is the right man for Everton is debatable as is the possible list of other candidates.
Sure Unsy is inexperienced and will probably be moved back in due course when the hierarchy have their ducks in a row regarding a new man.
The big problem is whether to go with the experienced players or go with the younger guys like Lookman and Vlasic who may have the zip and tenacity to succeed but only if they are starters.
DCL is not yet the finished article but only because he gets no support. Everton really need some players who can break quickly from midfield but Mirallas and Lennon are not the answers. It's a pity Delboy was allowed to leave as he had genuine pace.
14 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:44:23
So we pay £6m and get someone in for the money.
I'd like someone with a bit of ambition. That's first on my list not just “we will pay you big bucksâ€.
Already had our fingers burnt with that.
15 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:45:23
16 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:46:11
17 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:48:04
Chris Anderson, who was also the Toffees' company secretary, became Everton's first in-house lawyer when he joined the club in March 2014. He was previously a corporate lawyer at international law firm Slaughter and May. His career also included stints at Dundas & Wilson and Brabners. Anderson left the club about a month ago
He was previously a corporate lawyer at international law firm Slaughter and May.
His career also included stints at Dundas & Wilson and Brabners.
Anderson left the club about a month ago.
18 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:48:36
19 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:49:28
It really is a tough decision this one with potential far reaching consequences.
There are many pros and con regarding a lot of the managers mentioned.
The one thing clear is there is no one who we could guarantee will improve on what has been an awful start to the season.
20 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:56:47
21 Posted 31/10/2017 at 14:59:18
How does Sean Dyche fit that specification?
22 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:04:53
23 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:05:25
24 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:14:13
25 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:21:12
A tad harsh. Have you seen how all the English youth teams have done over the summer / autumn?! The future looks really encouraging.
If your statement had been made prior to this I would probably have agreed with you, but not now.
Dyche? Not the man I wanted but who knows. He could be brilliant. He's done well at Burnley.
Even the top coaches had to start somewhere and develop (unless you're like Zidane and just get given Real and are then seen to be a top coach).
Please God make the right choice Mosh!
26 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:28:35
You flirted with the big boys, talking a good game at the AGM, talking up top 4 aims, flashing the cash..for a season or two but we know that your heart still lies here in the land of zero ambition. Your table awaits, over there in Section P, yes, P for plucky little Everton. The menu is still the same, off cuts and scraps with the odd surprise that will just about satiate your appetite. Yes unfortunately the rule still applies where if one of the top tabes wants to exchange or take your food, then yes, that is to be met with supine subservience. What's the faint noise? Oh, that's the band, we place them near the top tables, you know how it is. Well yes, absolutely, you can't really expect to have the same experience as them, and although you can't really hear them you are in the same room .you did say that's all that matters. You will notice that the table has been extended to accommodate the ambassadors, former players, toadies. Yes, of course their seats are free. Given their unstinting support of the board, it is only right and proper. Yes, you're right, the seats are indeed lower than the seat at the head of the table. We remember that's just how the club liked it. Please note the proximity of your table to the ramshackle bar, warm lager on tap and food from the 50s.. And of course your 1920s toilets are still here, yes, complete with stale urine infusing , giving that earthy impoverished look, that is so you. Your usual seat Mr Kenwright? Yes, it is warm - well, you never really did leave it did you? Welcome back nonetheless.
27 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:36:42
I hope we have also approached someone like Tuchel. Maybe we have and he made it clear he has no interest.
Yet, more compo paid out for a manager?
Also, we have talented young players. I'd like a manager who could be trusted to build based on this, using money wisely on further top class young talent, hence Tuchel. Maybe there are others.
28 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:44:09
Not so much welcome back mediocrity, more 'as you we're.'
We have never known anything else since the 1960's and 1980's.
Personally I don't have high expectations of Everton, given that we have never been big spenders in recent times. But I if we get relegated I'd lose interest all together. Dyche could be the last throw the dice in trying to avoid the cliff edge.
29 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:50:12
30 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:53:38
Silva's teams leak goals so do Howe's. Tuchel seems to wind up the board rather than the team and there's more chance of seeing klippity in our dugout than the likes of Ancelotti, Mancini or Enrique.
Unsworth or Dyche...? I'd like to se Unsy given a bit longer, certainly these next five league games. If it is to be Dyche sooner rather than later I think Unsworth would be an excellent assistant manager.
I also think Dyche would swiftly do away with Walsh as director of football.
31 Posted 31/10/2017 at 15:56:12
To suggest Unsworth is a better option is simply foolish. Take off the blue specs and what has he done? Nothing. And before anyone blathers on about the u23's title, that is a different sport to the cutthroat EPL, please be serious.
32 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:00:19
33 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:00:23
He has no proven track record at a bigger club. His previous campaign in the Premier League ended in relegation. There's no guarantee any new managerial appointment will be a success... but surely there are other managers out there with a more qualified CV for the job.
I would stick with Unsworth for now and give him until Christmas. If things are still desperate by then, it's time to sell our souls and appoint Big Sam who is a specialist at relegation dog-fights.
34 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:02:14
35 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:04:03
36 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:04:35
Mediocrity Everton FC is right James McPherson. Pitiful and embarrassing.
37 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:14:28
38 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:15:25
That is never a reason to pick someone, I think taking him would be a mistake, he maybe ready for a bigger club in Everton but can he adjust to that mentality?
Already typecast as Moyes 2.0 is that a style we want to revisit with the negative memories that would resurface with it.
Tuchel if he was ever interested has probably been scared off back down the autobahn.
I still think Unsworth would be a better choice. In a time of peril, and I think Everton are in that situation, looking closer to home is my preference.
Its just gut feel, and I like the way he sets the team up. A bit Joe Royle in that.
But its just a mess, whoever we get it will be a very bumpy ride.
39 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:16:33
And this guy has also been relegated from the Premier League. The last time we went for the latest hyped up premier League manager who'd done well at a smaller club, won a trophy yet got relegated it turned out wrong despite an optimistic beginning.
Look elsewhere in my opinion. I've always refrained from slating Kenwright and that is a different debate but this has him all over it. He wants his next Moyes but probably know he can't bring him back so this fits the "ambition".
40 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:17:33
41 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:19:19
42 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:21:48
Dyche is probably not right at the top of my list, but he's done a demonstrably good job at Burnley. Do we not want promising managers ready to potentially take the next step forward?
43 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:27:46
Dyche is going from Hollywood to clogs made of wood. We have all been kidded yet again.
See you all in the new stadium, guys.
44 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:29:24
45 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:30:21
On one hand, we have some guys panicking big time running around shouting "We're doomed! We're doomed! We're all doomed!", like that fella off Dad's Army (no, not Ashley Williams). On the other hand, we've got a load of guys like the above who are "refusing to accept mediocrity".
My preference is, as I've stated many times, Silva. But, there's a lot of question marks about him, not the least, can we prise him away from Watford, and I think we'd have a lot of answers to those questions come July. I would therefore like to see Unsworth initially be given until Christmas, then if it's not a disaster (ie relegation fight), then give him until the end of the season, but ensure Walsh takes responsibility for the transfers with big picture and not short term in mind. We don't want any more 30+ players.
Dyche worried me at first, for many of the reasons stated above. However, I have softened my resistance to his appointment. Why?
1. Use of youth - we need someone willing to develop the riches in our youth team. We need to use Walsh's talents to get players in early and develop them and supplement the rich resources we have in the North West area. I am very excited at the likes of Henry, Donka, Gibson, Bowler, the lad from Fulham, and the rest.
2. Use of British Players - Dyche mainly signs British players. I want to see scousers in the side, and if not scousers, then let's get British players in. He does this to foster team spirit and togetherness. The local players also know how big Everton is. Of course we still want the big name foreign stars who have enhanced our squad like Limpar, Kanchelskis, Lukaku, Arteta, Cahill, Pienaar etc, but we don't want a big Sam style xi where they're all foreign and all mediocre, just signed because they are big and strong.
3. Tactical nous - Dyche has proven on occasions that he can beat the big sides and each time he's done it, it's not just been down to luck and great keeper. He knows how to setup a defence.
4. Personality. At first, I thought Dyche was the bouncer type. Gruff voice, very serious, as boring as his teams, etc. Watch a few of his press conferences. He's quite a funny guy. He's also got the media eating out of his hand. They love him. So the media would be on his side with us. Did they ever really give Moyes a rough ride? He hardly ever was under big pressure. Koeman would have limped on a bit longer if the media didn't rachet up the pressure on him, and someone else like Moyes or Dyche would have had a bit more backing off the press. This means there's less pressure on the players, the fans are less nervous and things can turn around a bit quicker. How often did Moyes teeter on the brink, run of bad results and flip it very quickly before it got too serious?
5. Adaptability. The big unknown is how he can adapt. Adapt he must. Our biggest concern, and I can see it above, is this would be a long term contract, a new long term project, and the end result of this project, plan or whatever buzz word they use next, had better be Champions League Football. So can Dyche achieve this? How can he adapt tactics to fit being the team expected to win? Is he capable? This is something only time will tell. I tried to do some research on Burnley's promotion year, and on them playing lower league sides in the cup. But I could find little comment on their style of play. I can't see how they can become Barcelona in the cup, when in the middle of a relegation campaign in the league, but when they are winning lots of games and achieving promotion, the question is, how are they playing? Is it still boring and dull football?
6. The big name players. I think Rooney will stay regardless of manager and fight for his place. I expect the same of the other new recruits, they mainly came from lower league clubs, Sandro included. Klaassen is an unknown. If Klaassen isn't looking for an out in January, then that shows you he is a fighter, and we should ALL get behind him as he tries to turn things around. It would be so easy for him to go back to AJax. The big one for me is Ross Barkley. I am desperate to see Ross stay and sign a new deal. I hope the board have spoken to him, and to Dyche about him. I hope they are on the same page and Ross Barkley has a future, can work with Dyche, and will sign a new deal. I would not want Dyche to come in if it means Barkley is gone. In my head alone, he leads our resurgence, and he helps us recover 7th at the end of the season and carries his form into the World Cup, which is his own personal ambition, and if he can fulfil that (playing in the World Cup) then why leave?
46 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:30:59
47 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:32:46
48 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:36:34
49 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:40:11
50 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:41:49
I know for a fact that the Stadium is still on track. There is a number of people working on this project already. There is no reason to suspect it will fall through. This isn't like the Kirkby car park where no one really did much other than a quick sketch. There's architects, solicitors, surveyors, and other professionals involved in this project and working on getting it ready for the spade to go in the ground. So stop doom mongering Tony. It's the only reason Moshiri owns us. He will sell us after the stadium is built and pocket a tidy profit.
51 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:42:44
If we go down, no stadium, if we stay up, the same.
52 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:45:59
Two words: Kings Dock. Who failed to deliver that?
53 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:48:56
54 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:49:08
55 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:52:40
The whole lot fkg stink!
56 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:52:49
Everton had the 7th yes 7th most money spent on transfers in Europe !.How many fucking leagues are in Europe !.Yes we got alot of money in but Moshiri and Kenwright did not pocket it ,it was reinvested and spent on players that Koeman and Walsh wanted !.Do you honestly think the chairman wanted to buy 25 million Klassen,or buy three number tens ?.Everton were going to buy Giroud (another 30 million) but he turned them down.The facts are Moshiri is backing the manager but unfortunately Koeman and Walsh are the reason the club is in a mess at the moment not the fucking chairman,change the record ffs !.
57 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:53:10
Wake up, mate... This is why we are approaching Sean Dyche because a lot of our fans are gullible. They believe anything the club tells them. Go and put a bet on Bramley-Moore being built by 2022 if you're that confident...
58 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:56:50
59 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:09:44
Got Burnley promoted twice and has kept them in the premiership.
He's done the hard miles in the championship & premiership and deserves a chance at a club like ours. All a decent manager does is get the best out of the players at his disposal and he has certainly done that at Burnley. Burnley have one of the lowest wage bills and the lowest transfer outlays in the premiership.
Burnley have always been well organised, well drilled, and compete for every ball. They are always extremely hard to beat and right now I will settle for that.
We are a million miles away from Tuchel and Ancelotti what we need are young hungry managers who want to make a step up and prove themselves.
60 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:13:14
And you know Kenwright still pulls the strings how? (evidence). Nothing is for certain what goes on behind the scenes but what is for sure is that Moshiri is majority shareholder and therefore, he holds the most power.
Do you honestly think a billionaire business man and his people are going to be pushed around by Kenwright? My opinion is that Bill has got his self the dream deal by selling a large chunk of his shares for a big profit and still being allowed to be the face of Everton (in the spotlight as he likes it).
Wasn't Koeman the choice of Moshiri and his people? Koeman did have a decent CV - seemed like a solid appointment at the time.
It could be argued that if Moshiri was never brought on board, we might have had to endure another season of Martinez - the man who you wanted to succeed Moyes if my memory serves me correctly.
61 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:23:37
The main downside to the Commonwealth games falling through is that the deadline of 2022 has gone. The club can take as long as they want to break ground and get the stadium built. Liverpool Waters is not going to be built before 2022 and is a slow project in itself.
Peel does not mess about. Check their website: http://www.liverpoolwaters.co.uk/
I understand your scepticism based on past fiascos, but this time things are happening.
62 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:28:12
He is a businessman. He is in this to make money. Everyone knows that Everton was available on the cheap. He got us for a tenth of the price of most top half clubs, and he will make a killing if he can just deliver a stadium on the waterfront and a team in European Competition.
That is his motivation. Not to be a fall guy for some guy he's never met before.
63 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:31:18
64 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:33:57
65 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:36:25
However, I feel like we've seen all this before - with a certain Mr. Martinez, when he was surprising people with Wigan.
Both were/are doing well at smaller clubs, but we are a big club that is now at a point where we want to attract big name managers. For example - Koeman.
That's surely the plan? To mix it with the big boys?
To go back to picking somebody like Dyche, Allardyce or Silva we are giving off the wrong signals in my opinion.
I think we should bring in a well known manager who also has the experience of managing in the Premier League (if possible)
I think someone like Ancelotti is out of reach personally but there are others.
My own choice would be Manuel Pellegrini.
He did a great job at Man. City and played an attractive brand of football that we all would welcome I think. And he knows what it takes to be successful in England so would hopefully have no problem bringing a winning mentality and confidence back to us.
We would obviously have to pay compensation to his club, but we would if we went after Dyche so that shouldn't put us off.
I understand we are in a dog fight and the names of Dyche and Allardyce are most suited to that situation so I am not totally against them, I'm just looking long term and believe that with the new stadium build approaching we should be going for someone better suited to what we are trying to achieve long term.
Both Dyche and Allardyce feel like short term options.
66 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:40:08
Do some home work mate.Koemans CV was diabolical
Prior to the Southampton job.Sacked 3 times in a row.Almost got Valencia relegated.Dont hit me with bullshit. If Moshiri was as dlilligent as you think He an his people would not of touched Koeman. Ronald Koeman was a media hyped manager living of his football superstar status. Another Ruud Guillet or Souness.
How do you know Moshiri is more than Happy to buy some sheepish shares own half of Everton let BK stay in charge and not really give a fuck. If Moshiri is the brain you think He is why our we even considering Sean Dyche?? Moshiri got his arse smacked by Ronald Koeman.£ 6.million a year.Everyone in football gulped at that deal.
67 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:47:12
No way.. just no way.
68 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:53:33
69 Posted 31/10/2017 at 17:55:02
Sean Dyche has done very well in his short career. He was sacked at Watford by new foreign investors after he'd got them their highest finish in 4 years, hardly a black mark on his career.
My own preference would be an interim manager who can organise and then get a Ancelotti or Tuchel in the summer. I would have put up with Allardyise until the summer. I don't think we'll do that so Dyche seems a solid long term appointment with a lot of potential.
70 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:09:45
He also allows his defenders to defend, pass back and clear their lines unlike another former manager.
He might also get the squad onside and playing in their best positions and not change tactics every ten minutes unlike our dutch friend.
My choice no, but at this moment we are not in the driving seat to attract top drawer coaches, no harm in checking out if anyone fancies us though.
71 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:18:25
Do not get me wrong, Koeman had to go.
But as a result only Tuchel is out of work, and everything else is well underwhelming.
Too many detracting elements from the potential candidates to convince me.
I believe after mulling it over, I'd give it to ðŸ¦ until the end of the season. Then reassess who's available.
It gives Unsworth time to breathe, other managers time to jump ship, and gives Everton the time to make a considered appointment.
72 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:21:06
73 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:23:51
74 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:24:55
75 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:26:50
As for your 'why is Moshiri considering Dyche' - we don't know if he is... probably why this is in the rumour section. He wouldn't be my choice but we can hardly attract a manager like Mourihno in our current state, can we?
76 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:27:21
77 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:30:50
78 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:36:14
I don't accept mediocrity, in fact I won't pay to watch it, and even if it's free won't be arsed. All I'm saying is, I believe my first post is reality. It's not 'acceptable' to me, because to me Everton is represented by the 69-70 title winning side. That's Everton, and anything less is an aberration from normality.
Unless we get a modern-day John Moores, I believe we'll be no different from Liverpool and other also-ranks, rather than top dogs. That's 'tolerable' (provided the football is entertaining), but not acceptable.
79 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:37:19
80 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:44:00
81 Posted 31/10/2017 at 18:59:40
I came across that fact on a YouTube vid that Ped from Toffee TV appeared on today. I should imagine it includes Dyche's whole tenure with Burnley so Championship as well.
I'm much like you on his appointment. I think he'll keep us up, he'll organise and he seems canny enough tactically, but the question is if he's just another David Moyes? Is it just in a reactive way, and just setting up teams to be hard to beat?! My gut feeling is that he can make he transition to working with better players and be more diverse tactically.
82 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:09:36
83 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:10:38
84 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:15:41
85 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:16:45
His job is a miles easier if he has a team of match winners, just stick De Bruyne and Aquero in our team!
The top 6 teams shop in Harrods, while we are still frequenting Tesco! Don't say we have spent a lot of money on players, yes we have but we also sold £100m + worth of players who are not in our team now.
As for who is to become our manager, what we don't see is how he comes across in his duties off the field.
Will the players rate him, does he know his stuff, does he inspire players etc.
As it is I would stick with David for another six games,
if there is no more noticeable improvement in form and results, I would give Allardyce an 18 month contract.
86 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:22:45
This said, I don't have enthusiasm for any of the candidates realistically suggested so far. I have to admit, I currently can "See" no further than a month for Unsworth at this stage.
87 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:24:31
Allardyce may be the short term fix of a contract until end of season and then get in a Tuchel/Ancelotti. But Dyche is going to be requiring a long term contract. We will be out laying big sums of money again, but is Dyche the man to spend it?
88 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:25:45
Either way, we need to get the new guy in quickly. Teams at the bottom at Christmas tend to get relegated, simple as that. If we keep losing, it becomes a habit and it continues. We need to break that immediately.
89 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:27:13
90 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:30:25
91 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:31:07
But we have to be honest, apart from the years of our Championship wins and maybe a year or two either side we've never set the world alight have we ?
In fact though I hate to say it if you wouldn't pay to watch mediocrity then say since the year you mentioned, 1961, you can only have watched a minority of games.
When, since our last league win have we had any sort of prolonged period of football on a par from your 1970 team ? I would suggest none.
92 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:32:21
Paul (74) - I haven't looked but would that be assuming no-one else gets any points, . And if we don't stop shipping goals we will be 22 points behind them.
One thing is absolutely certain - and that is that someone on here is going to be right and I'm sure we will be reminded in the fullness of time. We really are seeing a diverse body of opinion over this and quite unsurprisingly. This is a major, major appointment because, as Ron Marr points out, the incumbent manager is going to have to sort out the car crash he finds here. He will need to be good at first aid.
I have been happy for pretty much all of the reasons that Steve eloquently makes way back at post 45, including some that I hadn't thought of, with the prospect of Sean Dyche. Certainly short/mid term anyway. Whether Dyche would be the right choice looking at a longer term picture I am unsure but every successful manager has had to win his first trophy sometime. At this stage we don't need a 'name' - we need someone that can do a job. That is where we went wrong with Koeman.
As far as the comments regarding infighting, shenanigans, conspiracy theories and so on going on with our board I assume half the posters on here believe that Paul McCartney died in 1966 and was replaced by a body double.
To say that Moshiri doesn't give a fuck, the stadium is pie in the sky/doomed, Kenwright only interested in his own pockets and would have us go down to avoid having to further the project etc etc are the ramblings of the hopelessly pessimistic cynic.
I have no idea who the best person to take over would be and we can never know for sure. I just hope that this season whoever that turns out to be gets all the players back on side including Barkley, and get us at least enough points to stay up. If that is Dyche, and I think the pieces seem to fit pretty well then I will be happy. The fun can then start next year.
93 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:32:48
Maybe it's just because he's at Burnley, but Dyche seems to prefer a defensive type of game where they catch teams on the break after defending most of the game. Seems a similar type of manager to Moyeswho will get the best out of the players he has but always more likely to win a game 1-0 or 2-1 rather than 3-0 or 4-0.
If the likes of Tuchel and other top managers don't like the idea of managing us then I think Dyche is probably the best option.
94 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:36:22
A few posters on the current thread have mentioned Steve Walsh.
Leaving his job title aside, Does anyone actually know what his remit is? . and to what extent he was involved in the summer transfers?
95 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:37:44
I would like us to agree a contract with Ancellotti to start from next season and give unsworth the rest of the season.
One other punt, how about Hiddink? would get the team sorted in the short term and also attract decent players in.
96 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:39:12
97 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:43:21
98 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:45:37
99 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:51:17
At the moment, Man City are the current version of our late 60s side, lovely stylish football, and very effective. They are the best in Britain, imo. We could be like that, or even better perhaps, if (and only if) we have comparable or greater financial resources. Usmanov?
I 'dine out', memory-wise, on the 1960s Everton, hoping that level will be repeated. But even if it's not, and we remain fairly mediocre, at least I have that memory. Sometimes the best things are fleeting.
100 Posted 31/10/2017 at 19:58:12
101 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:05:19
102 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:05:56
103 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:09:57
However, unlike Big Sam, Dyche has been relegated as a manager.
Allardyce is the safer option.
104 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:12:09
105 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:14:13
No to Allardyce.
We are supposed to be aiming for the top 4 these days.
There must be plenty of solid managers out there who have the coaching skills and clout to attract top players.
Dyche won't attract top players.
106 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:21:21
If Dyche is not your choice, and you are entitled to your opinion, then name me a “topâ€ manager that would be a realistic catch.
Ever thought that if Burnley are approached and Dyche has a decision to make would he swap 7th place Burnley that is stable for the current wreckage that constitutes us. Yes there is bags of potential with us but realising it is tough and currently we are 18th and a mess.
107 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:24:43
It seems he is an old pal of Unsy too (picked him to play for Chorley Schoolboys - or something like that). Be interesting to see what any new manager would make of him/his role.
108 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:26:20
I appreciate we should be aiming for the top 4.
Bit of reality though. A near miracle of a last 28 games this season would get us to at best top 10.
Anything less and we always have the relegation trapdoor way too close.
We need some stability right now after 2 very poor tenures.
109 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:29:18
In the cold light of day it's Dyche for me and good luck to him and us if he gets the gig.
110 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:33:33
111 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:36:52
It may be what we'd wish for in an ideal world. This is reality and it's very doubtful it'll happen. Even for £6m a year!
112 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:51:48
I have never seen one of our sides, ever, so gutless and with a look of death about it. That's the core survival task: to perform footballing CPR, and the sooner we realise it the better. There are too many fooling themselves that we have time to spare, that we're not as bad as we seem and that it'll all come good if only we wish hard enough.
We're a dreadful team playing obvious relegation football. Look at our goal difference. If we go down, I don't think we'll re-emerge for a long time. Those are the stakes and that's why we shouldn't be turning up our noses at Allardyce.
113 Posted 31/10/2017 at 20:53:19
Of the Candidates being put forward Moyes is a no go he would come with a ready made excuse like he did at Sunderland plus he is shite. If its a toss up between Big Sam and Sean Dyche I go for Big Sam as he gets teams playing and keeps them up.
On the subject of Allardyce when he did get a few quid at Bolton he put together a cracking little side that gave all the big teams a game.They came to Goodison Parkand beat us 4-0 one year. I think the season after we finished 4th. When Sam kept Palace up last year once they got going they played better football than I have seen us play for a while. Again getting results against teams We only dream of beating or having a go at.
Stop dreaming Guys and get real. Thanks to Koeman & co we are in the shite and need rescuing. We don't need a foreign coach with no PL experience learning on the job.
114 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:00:01
115 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:04:31
116 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:08:05
Please don't come back at me and say that look at the position we are in or the dead wood we have, because IMO this is just years and years of utter bullshit from Kenshite, more bullshit from Moshiri. You half glass full fans when you know what you witness with your own eyes is at best shit. Mediocre excepting fans and don't say there is none there are thousands of them.
Now look at this club going for done fuck all and won fuck all Dyche like its alright and good for us. It doesn't even anger me anymore as this once great club is finished when its board and fans are even considering Dyche and Big fucking doughnut Sam. As an evertonian I am embarrassed and sick of being laughed at from every part of this country. No ambition never has been since the eighties and never will be whilst you fans and you know who you are and our board think Won fuck all and done fuck all dyche, Big Sam are your answer. Just fuck off Everton you have sucked the fucking life out of me just fuck off.
117 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:09:44
118 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:15:55
We can point at Koeman and Walsh for poor purchases, but we are where we are. Unsworth is not the solution, let him cut his teeth with the under 23s. I would go with Dyche, think he would help the defensive part of the game and bring the team together. However that doesn't address the problems outlined above. As others have said we need a steady hand to build a club up not instance success.
119 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:18:14
He deserves a crack of the whip, and Dyche is no magician.
Thanks to the recruiting team we have an imbalanced squad that Unsworth has managed to get a decent reaction from so far.
120 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:20:30
We have done this so many times and the only one who won a league was Howard Kendall. But Lee and Walker were both managers what I would call 1 season wonders. Moyes the same did a good job with Preston and to be fair for the very limited budget he did OK.
But they have never ever employed the best manager around even when Sir John was chairman he failed to get Clough or Robson when they were at their peak.
So appoint Dyce but I listened to a reporter for the BBC last night reporting on Burnleys victory over Newcastle and he said. This is the second time I have been here this season and both games have been awful to watch.
121 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:22:33
122 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:26:28
123 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:28:26
124 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:32:58
125 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:35:42
126 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:39:19
1) Giving it Unsworth isn't an option. He lost me with that naive set up on Sunday. Denis (9) sums up my entire view on him as a manager. At 44 he hasn't had the balls to get a gig and test himself. No way has he the experience for this job. I would prefer Stubbsy for example, who at least has had a go. I genuinely think he could take us down.
2) Dyche, just because he is from a Lancashire team and is ginger, is not Moyes reincarnate.
3) Even if he was, let's get rid of this revisionism about Moyes. He was a successful manager. Stayed too long, eventually got sour, yes. The way people denigrate what he achieved at Everton with no money, and when he started a fucking awful squad rankles with me somewhat.
4) Dyche has done what he has had to do to make Burnley successful. Keeping them up last year, making a fist of it in the first year and returning at the first ask, and now being 7th was success for them. Pragmatic, organised and hard to beat at home. I don't think anyone can say 'this is his ultimate blueprint' based on simply that.
5) I think he would thrive at Everton. Is he the man to take us to the next level? Who knows? I will give him a chance though.
6) In the press and on 5live he has always come across as likable, articulate and knowledgeable about the game. He probably wasn't my first choice (for me, that would be Silva I think) but given the situation we are in, I would not be disappointed to get him.
7) If Dyche impresses Moshiri, go for it. If so-so, go and get Big Sam. Give him a 6 month or if needs be an 18 month deal. Accept that the immediate future is about rebuilding (with Walsh firmly in charge of recruitment) and prepare for the long term frrom a position of strength.
127 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:41:31
128 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:44:19
Seriously though our club is being slowly choked to death. 30 plus years of hurt, never stop believing, sadly footballs not coming home.
129 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:44:21
130 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:45:54
Unsworth has 2 games to state his case I guess. Despite the 2 defeats I feel that these defeats would have been a lot more pronounced if Koeman was still in charge, there is still some hope. Some! I hope we don't get to the point where people start saying we should have given Koeman more time, then we will know we are adrift. I thought Koeman would get it right, so I am certainly no expert, but I can't why Dyche is being considered long term. Hopefully Unsworth can steady things quickly and then we can get a longer term appointment in January. However, hopefully is the key word. I am not optimistic on any front at the moment!
Can anyone suggest a way of fixing the defence? I certainly can't.
131 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:50:33
132 Posted 31/10/2017 at 22:05:53
133 Posted 31/10/2017 at 22:14:48
The fact is as a few have alluded to as well, is who would want to come; considering the mess that we have been left in? We must guard at all costs, getting another mercenary, who is only here for the dough.
I really don't think Dyche would be a gamble either, the guy has proved that he can compete with the best, with little or no resources.
Imagine if he was given access to some better resources, coupled with the nucleus of decent players that we have, and yes we do have a few.
Just what he could achieve?
My heart, for the fact he is a blue, says Unsy, but my head and reality says Dyche.
134 Posted 31/10/2017 at 22:15:02
If anyone watched the game yesterday vs Newcastle, Burnley passed the ball around patiently at times and also went for the long ball at times when the shape of Newcastle permitted it. Burnley presses, attacks, double teams and defends the whole game.
Dyche is a straight -talker but with a sense of humor (remember when Jose and others complained about the Christmas fixtures and Dyche said his players were used to playing 46 league games and a crowded fixtures list so it was no big deal to them. A shot across the bow of the big boys while bigging up his own players. Everton could do, and recently have done, far worse than Dyche.
135 Posted 31/10/2017 at 22:16:03
City were shite for decades before being bankrolled. Newcastle for half a century and are still shite. We are not jinxed, we are not ju -jued. We need to find a group of good hard working coaches who can help players become familiar with what their doing within a system and a manager who will get the best out of them.
136 Posted 31/10/2017 at 22:26:09
Mike Walker Mark 2; I despair.
137 Posted 31/10/2017 at 22:35:58
I think and hope he'll figure it out and is given more time because if Allardyce or Dyche are given the job we'll basically be saying 7th is the ceiling level.
138 Posted 31/10/2017 at 23:12:09
139 Posted 31/10/2017 at 23:16:13
Dyche wouldn't be my pick neither would big Sam.. but we have to take into account where we actually are right now.. my choice would be Tuchel.. but I think imo that it would be too much of a risk. A foreign manager finding his feet in the prem could very well take us down. Then he'd walk off into the sunset after activating that convenient clause that would for sure be inserted into his contract.
140 Posted 31/10/2017 at 23:16:25
You want big Sam. So say, he loses his first three games, will he become a shithouse( your phrase )How long will you give any coach? What changes will you make to the formation? What will be your line up for the next two games? How should we approach the Watford game?
I doubt you have an opinion. I can , Tony, ask you a question on which I am sure you have an opinion. Are the custodians of our club a useless pack of fuckers?We might just concur on that.
141 Posted 31/10/2017 at 23:25:10
142 Posted 31/10/2017 at 23:31:41
Whether or not he has enough about him to rescue us remains to be seen but I would rather have someone who is familiar with the league than some big name from abroad who will take weeks if not months to acclimatise. I still hope Unsworth is given the chance to deliver a win on Sunday but if he doesn't Dyche would be the best appointment we could make in our current circumstances.
There is no guarantee of course that he would accept what might be regarded as a poisoned chalice. Given our fixtures in the next few weeks a failure to deliver some wins could see a new manager under intense scrutiny after only three or four matches but with no scope to do anything in the transfer market before January.
143 Posted 31/10/2017 at 23:34:10
You couldn't make it up, we are a fucking joke of a club.
Who would want to manage us , who would want to come play for us , is it any wonder our best signings and players all want to leave us and then we have this â€“absolute shite we are apparently chasing Sanchez.
It's tough being an Evertonan.
144 Posted 01/11/2017 at 00:29:02
Why oh why arent there more people like you on these sites??
Mice or men ? Just pass them the fucking cheese and let them live in the shadow of ignorance of the great bloated toad of a despot, rank,fuckin shyster,and blood-sucking leech like Kenwright (AND ELSTONE)
When good fans do shite this is how it all ends.
Man you just gotta give them Reds their due,because these fuckers would of been tossed on the 9.10 back to Euston 20 years ago.
signed A Season ticket holder of over 20years.
145 Posted 01/11/2017 at 00:36:37
For years I've thought our lot, including the "legends-who-GET-Everton" (as in "minimum effort lads/no recriminations, ever"), cannot have believed their luck in joining a club paying them so much for largely bog standard performances. I've thought, and still think, unfortunately for the new manager, that way too many of them just never had the heart or bottle to press on to greater achievement than what they miserably achieved after signing for us. Europa League Qualifiers? Give me a break! I cannot understand how a professional footballer, at a top-half Premier League club such as we usually are, has sod all else to do than hone how to control-pass-and-move but then fails in these basics to the extent that ours do, on the contracts they have. They should be ashamed of themselves.
The vast majority, if not the entirety, of the current squad seem to believe that they're unlikely to engineer a move to more money or success. Only Everton GET them as allegedly "special" and they know it. They therefore have an inherent desire NOT to scale the heights because in doing so the club get more prize money and more money means signing better players than them. They know they'll then get sold to a lesser club paying lesser money, so they deliberately bottle it, as they did in Martinez's first season as far as I'm concerned.
The all-pervading comfort zone they enjoy, as established by Kenwright decades ago, has a vast amount to answer for.
Concentrating on former players to populate the coaching positions from top to bottom is ludicrous. Jesus H, one of them was even appointed as a newly declared bankrupt without any coaching qualifications at all having spent his whole playing career stating by word and deed that he didn't give a shit about football! Another hit his playing peak aged 18 and then faded as though his ability turned to powder, another never progressed from being captain of England Schoolboys and the other won one whole England cap having spent most of his matches looking like he'd just emerged from a nightclub. But they all GET Everton, so no fucking worries eh Bill?
I hope whoever comes in negotiates to bring in his own coaching team, as well as having Moshiri bin the players who haven't got the heart we/he need in favour of signing proper footballers in January.
I doubt that'll happen though.
146 Posted 01/11/2017 at 00:48:54
They would talk Ancelotti into taking up the position, if Moshiri is serious, this is how he can show it.
147 Posted 01/11/2017 at 01:18:35
Then do what Southampton did with Adkins, pay him off and bring in a better coach
Horses for courses.
Unsy isn't the man for the job. Yes he says good things and is enthusiastic but he hasn't had top level exposure yet. His selection at the weekend was poor. He improved it at half time but it took a double substitution after 45 minutes and taking off the player who looked most likely to score
He needs to move on from Everton for a bit of work experience if he is ever to be manager
We are in the shit and need to get out. Pragmatism is the way forward for now, when we are back up the table and look a good prospect again we can get a better manager.
148 Posted 01/11/2017 at 01:45:14
Now, this is not a wish, it is a forecast: Sean Dyche will get the nod. Big Sam would be a temporary appointment, and it seems that Crystal Palace would demand compensation, and I can't see Marco Silva leaving Watford at this stage. If it's not Dyche, we may get someone from the Continent, perhaps a guy I have mentioned before: Paulo Fonseca of Shakhtar Donetsk (talk of Tuchel or Ancelotti sounds totally unrealistic).
149 Posted 01/11/2017 at 02:13:27
150 Posted 01/11/2017 at 02:25:09
Unless they're managed by one Samuel Allardyce. ;-)
151 Posted 01/11/2017 at 02:28:52
I don't actually think we need to do either.
152 Posted 01/11/2017 at 02:45:01
153 Posted 01/11/2017 at 03:45:05
154 Posted 01/11/2017 at 05:27:30
Koeman got sacked for being near the bottom, if the reason had been being near, but not quite, at the top, a 'Big Name' might be in order, to kick us on.
But he wasn't; now we need somebody to kick us on (figuratively and literally) from the bottom.
If it's Dyche, well so be it...like we have a real say anyway. It's all a gamble.
Unsworth Vs Dyche? who can tell until down the track?
Dyche Vs Alladyce? Fat Sam has the form, he's never been relegated, but there's always a first time. Memories are short but do we really need to be associated with his shady sort?
Who ever it is there'll be no quick fix and it will go down to the wire.
155 Posted 01/11/2017 at 06:29:01
156 Posted 01/11/2017 at 06:41:16
He is happy at the hoops beating 2nd rate opposition and lapping up the plaudits his ego craves.
157 Posted 01/11/2017 at 06:56:36
158 Posted 01/11/2017 at 07:28:04
159 Posted 01/11/2017 at 07:43:56
Some ridiculous, and ridiculously abusive, comments and assertions being made overnight that are so from fact you can only welcome them to the conspiracy train. As I said to Khalil (I think his name was) from Mauritius on another thread. Welcome to the asylum.
160 Posted 01/11/2017 at 07:46:03
This is partly why I'd prefer Unsworth to be given a little time. I don't feel the club should engage in any further tinkering just yet, nor any big decisions about a manager. A few weeks to properly take stock, and hopefully become as informed as possible before taking any panicky steps.
161 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:03:00
Stan - c'mon mate, Chin up! You've been around a long time. Me too! I've supported the club since '53, when I was a 5 y.o. Through thick and thin NSNO! Mid-table just ain't where it is.
162 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:08:26
163 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:09:14
I was underwhelmed when Martinez was hired - then for a while I thought I was going to be proved wrong... I felt pretty much the same with Koeman... and I think I'll feel even worse if Dyche is hired.
164 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:13:30
They are all on the gravy train and no-one wants to bite the hand that feeds them.
I heard Brendan Rogers on Talkshite the other day and I have to say , I was impressed with his football knowledge and passion for Celtic. He did set teams up to play good football and he does understand tactics.
I doubt whether he would leave the club he has always loved , especially for us, with his red history.
However, I would still take Benitez over Dyche.
On a different tack, I saw a piece in the Echo about Vlassic commenting on the huge portions in the canteen. He said it was possible to have an enormous Full English before training! Perhaps Williams and Rooney have been making the most of it!
I still don't understand how players can have a chat, watch a video, have a snack and bugger-off home at 2;30.
Koeman and now Unsworth have bemoaned how little time there has been to work on things at the training ground!
Well Bugger Me ! Keep them there, put the floodlights on and have another session, working on transition, working on tactics, and then have a shower and back in for a final reminder of their roles in the coming game with a memory stick of their next opponents to watch at home.
165 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:19:49
166 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:26:48
167 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:31:01
Would it be the same at Everton, or could it be the other way round? Maybe Allerdyce can come in and shake us up, but his he someone we want at our club?
I just hope there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes, and I think the club have done the best thing by waiting, possibly until the international break.
Our position looks bad, maybe the players aren't good enough? But I'm sure anyone with a decent plan will guide us away from danger, just play a settled side, which will help to get the crowd right behind us, and hopefully we can have the same ending as 1995!?
168 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:32:09
It's got to the point that the next appointment will cause me to do something in 32 years I have never considered which is virtually switching off from my beloved club who I have seen the good times and some real lows with. If we recruit Allardyce we are doomed. The physical long/direct ball approach will follow and the school of science will be banished. We are a Sunderland waiting to happen.
I'm not sure a new manager will turn it around immediately. So much deadwood to cull and they have to be brutal releasing those not up to task, whether it be the oldies who are past it or the youngsters just not cutting it
169 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:35:00
170 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:36:45
Moshiri wanted Koeman and moved hell and high water to bring him in. No process there. Let's hope this there is an agreed criteria, a list of candidates scored by the criteria, and a time scale for the process.
171 Posted 01/11/2017 at 08:49:06
Moshiri and Kenwright are meeting Allardyce today. The only difference between them is length of contract and the ridiculous amount of staff Sam wants to bring in.
172 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:05:50
I do hope David Unsworth can start getting us a few results but he will have to be quick (preferably) starting with Watford. If he doesn't, without a doubt, it's Sam Allardyce for me. Here is why.
Sam hasn't hung his boots up yet and I am sure he would love the Everton job. I'll bet he has already worked out what his Everton starting eleven would be and he will also have a pretty good idea of who he would want to bring in in January.
The players confidence is shot. Most of the players will know his track record, some of them have played for him in the national team, and most if not all of them know he has "been there and done that" when it comes to premier league survival. If they have got any sense in them at all they will trust him to lead them out of the mess they find themselves in.
If you look at his background, Allardyce has worked his way up from very humble beginnings, culminating in his appointment as England manager. He has done the hard yards and I am sure he would consider being Everton's manager an honour. I also suspect that he would like to end his career on a high note.
The other thing that has crossed my mind is that if given the opportunity to manage Everton he might just surprise a few of us with what he is actually capable of achieving with a half decent budget and state of the art training facilities.
So If it doesn't work out with David Unsworth, I would take Sam Allardyce over Sean Dyche all day long.
173 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:10:13
174 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:14:48
As much as I don't want Dyche, however, I can see why we would go for him if Kenwright is still pulling the strings. He's his type of manager.
If we land Tuchel or another more well-known name we know Moshiri is indeed in charge.
I fully expect the later. Simply because Moshiri MUST be in charge. What type of mug would buy such a stake in a club then let Kenwright pull the strings? Wouldn't make sense.
My personal choice is still to give Unsworth quite a few more games, certainly give him more time. I still believe we have decent players, who with confidence, will get the results that will push us up the league. I think Unsworth can instil that belief and confidence.
175 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:19:52
...as well as being in a couple of other national and local rags in the midlands.
176 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:23:58
If it only it were that straightforward. This is not changing tyres on a racing car. Whoever manages will leave their imprint, and you can't just switch it on and off. We are seeing the perfect (negative) example right now in the legacy of Koeman's "Work" - which I remain convinced was/is the biggest problem, far above issues of inherent player quality and suitability. Their football "Program" has been corrupted.
If we can look like turning this around in a realistic time frame under Unsworth, without flirting too much with danger should it not happen, then perhaps that would give us an opportunity to take a different route, for the medium term at least.
We develop and grow players - why not the manager, from a level of safety? As a club we are simply not likely to have the funds available to fuel the player investment that makes many of the Hollywood managers what they are.
We know what we'll get from Allardyce. We can make a reasonable guess what we might get from Dyche. Would it be better than Unsworth might deliver? There is simply no way of knowing for sure. A few weeks may provide guidance.
Taking on a new manager on the back of this recent mess is a huge step, whether it's a firefighter or a steady type. Taking on a "Guru" is a bigger risk at this stage - a foreign manager new to the PL, more so. If we have to fight impending relegation, then we need a man for that task. Do we even need the big foreign name when we haven't got the dough they would demand for players, assuming they would take the job in those circumstances, even when we're safe?
177 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:27:18
178 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:29:44
179 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:40:58
If it was Crimbo and we were in the bottom 3 I'd say yes to either but it's not, we're 10 games in. Neither of these 2 have any pulling power and if we want to attract good players then that's vital, you've only got to look at Moyes's tenure to see that's where he struggled.
It's a BIG No from me!!!
180 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:51:42
If we give Unsy up till Christmas, then start looking round for a permanenet manager, we will have left that manager in an impossible position. He would have to come in, with half a season to go,. at most. He would have to get to know the players, their strengths and weaknesses and then rush out to see what players were available in the January window, while trying to stop the ship from sinking as the season grinds on.
If we are going to give the job to Unsworth until January, then it seems to me we may as well give him the job until the end oif the season and let Walsh do his job, of finding players who can get us out of the mess we are in.
Maybe Unsy will make a fantastic success as a manager, maybe he won't. If he doesn't, and we have left any recruitment of another manager until the Christmas break, we will truly be well up shit creek.
I think also, any manager who is at the moment deciding that if he is offered the job now, would believe he has sufficient time to organise the team in ther way he thinks best...And look at players he fancies for the January window.
The longer this "temporary arrangement" goes on, the worse position we are going to be if, in the worst case, we are still in the mire we are in now.
In my view, it has to be a decision that's made now. Even if they the job to Unsworth. But I have little confidence that someone who has never done a club manager's job, can sort out the terrible mess we are in.
Any manager, who is settled in his current club, knows all his players, has a good idea who he wants to try and bring in will, in my view, give Everton the widest berth possible, if they come calling in December.
I also think that any idea of a top manager being asked to come to this club at such a time, would just laugh!
As for being satisfied with mediocrity, as some posters have identified many supporters to be. I think that is complete and utter bollocks.
We are were we are, and right now, I'd take mid table mediocrity as a step in the right direction.
This club, should be among the top clubs but we are not. If we are ever to get to that position we have to start taking a step at a time and I'd have thought that we can only start dreaming of top six and top four, once we're well and truly out of shit creek.
I started going the match just before Johnny Carey came to the club and the Sixties were brilliant; so were we for all too short a time in the mid eighties. I saw plenty of tedious mediocre running around that passed as football in between but except for two narrow escapes, we've generally not been too worried about being relegated
Right now, mid table mediocrity is something we can only dream of.
181 Posted 01/11/2017 at 09:59:52
I think with Unsworth at the helm, for the time being at least. There is not a need to rush this decision. The background work needs to be done on all potential candidates. It would be nice to think that the board had some idea who they might approach before sacking Koeman, which hardly came as a bolt from the blue after all, but it does not seem that way just now. Are we aware if they have actually spoken to anyone or requested permission to speak to anyone who may already be in a job?
All the rumour mills seem to be "Everton will approach ****** (enter name of your choice) about the vacant position ." etc. but I'm not sure that we have actually had any discussions with anybody yet, so clearly there has to be (certainly should be) a period of time while the process goes on.
So it looks like we may have Unsworth for a little while longer and I would not be unhappy with that with the squad is showing signs under him of being able to turn things around. It could prove to be the case that the answer is staring us in the face but, as many have pointed out, the lack of experience will be a hurdle.
182 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:01:05
None of the candidates fill my heart with joy or have me gushing confidence.
I will shed a tear if we appoint Alladyce, 2nd fav ,please please no.
David Unsworth is loved and respected by all Evertonians for the work with the under 23s , but his total inexperience at the sharp end of management rules him out for me.
The likes of Tuchel or Benitez will want cast iron guarantees of spending ,what they've seen recently may swerve us .Im not sure they are right for the club anyway.
That leaves Dyche , th odds on fav to get it now.
Unfashionable and a touch of old school about him. I liked the way last season he spoke in his after match press interviews.
Uncompromising and proud to play to his teams strengths. A fuck the opposition attitude, I think it may have been Arsenal or Liverpool he had upset.
I liked the way he spoke up for English managers and their unrecognised quality.
If he was from Portugal and his name was Nunez Jesus Angel Silva , we would snap him up and pay him double.
The logic goes that with double the resources and a bigger squad of better players he could do even better.
We are in a best guess situation .
Dyche is young , hungry and on an upward curve career wise. He's done well on a small budget. On top of all that he would jump at the chance to join us . Also a very small release fee (in today's terms).
We all want what's best for the club . I'm throwing my hat in the ring for Dyche.
183 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:03:22
So, if we do offer him the job, I hope we give him a fair crack at it. I've been convinced by more knowlegable fans than me on here telling me he's not just another Moyes (though, as has been pointed out, Moyes took a team flirting with relegation to regular contenders for the Top 6), so let's see how he gets on.
184 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:12:00
Wherever the cards eventually fall, that game of musical managers is for teams with five times the money we have. A long way into the future. Surely they'll learn from the last leap of faith into the "Big Time"?
185 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:12:54
By then we will have seen if Unsworth has had any real impact, I think he had to get results and stop the rot immediately, he hasn't, we still suffer from nervous anxiety, both in attack and defence. It was always going to be a tall order given his lack of any real experience, to carry on giving him time could be disastrous, we must act quickly.
There's no guarantees whoever is appointed, that they will succeed, just a last roll of the dice and pray it works. That's how desperate the situation is, make no mistake.
186 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:16:35
Regardless, he doesn't break contracts and would not walk away from Lille and leave them in the shit. He thinks it will soon click and they'll rocket up the table.
If we don't have the players for Tuchel, then we don't have the players for Bielsa. I love Bielsa, he's going to go down as a forgotten manager of football in 10 years times, but will be one of those names you drop to show you really know your stuff. Tuchel is similar to Bielsa, but 20 years younger, full of new ideas, hungry to put right his last blemish on his record, and he would not be able to fail at Everton. If appointed and sacked then he can kiss his top level management career goodbye and his next job would be in Bundesliga 2.
Tuchel is not my first choice, but if the club are not prepared to wait for Silva, and want someone in during the international break, then Tuchel would be the guy I would go for.
My preference, as stated in a detailed post above, is to wait for Silva (to prove himself and be able to walk away from Watford who will be happy to take a transfer fee for him) and to give Unsworth the job in the meantime, and of course the opportunity to stake his own claim. Meantime, you can have your big Sams on speed-dial in case it all goes tits up.
187 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:16:35
Hilarious that mate. "If Big Sam comes here the School of Science will be banished" !!! Where have you been since 69/70 season ? The School of Science my arse. Nil Satis as well. What a delusional rambling fanbase we have become.
Everton have not won the title for 30 years mate. The FA Cup in 95 was our last trophy .What fucking School of Science have you been attending. We have been shite for nearly 50 years apart.from a few seasons in the 1980s..
Jesus no wonder the club is in such a mess with comments and mindsets like that. We ain't no school of Science Rob. Nil Satis has gone .We are in the trenches mate up to our necks in mud and dead bodies. No Science teacher will save us this time.We need someone like Big Same wether you want to believe it or not.
Your like a drowning man refusing to grab a lifejacket because you don't like the colour.. Incredible..
188 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:17:43
189 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:21:31
190 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:24:58
191 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:26:04
He keeps teams up. Yes, that's true. But that's all that's true. With the style he plays it just can't get any better than that - which means at some point it will get worse. In fact, it did get worse for pretty much every club he managed.
I don't expect too much from Everton, but I certainly expect better than Sam Allardyce.
192 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:29:01
193 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:39:53
The comments ask West Ham or Newcastle fans what Allardyce is like is so lame mate because those 2 club's have been yoyo club's for the past 50 years regardless of managers. You could point this argument at most managers including our greatest ever Howard Kendall.
Ask Man Utd and Sunderland fans what they think of Moyes. How about Ranaieri at Leicester. Its pathetic mate.
194 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:40:37
With any club, I'd have thought that succession planning was an imperative saftey net, should the manager, god forbid, fall to a serious illness or prove to be not up to the job.
EFC may have been discussing who was best placed, available and willing to come to manage EFC and from that decision a short list has been drawn up.
Who they go for is important but it's more important not to let things drift. If they fancy someone fits the bill, be it unsworth or anyone else, the the sooner that is acted on, the better.
A few more gammes to try things out means a few less games to bring permanency to the team.
195 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:43:48
So decide what type of football you and your customers want and don't look for short term fixes. Then when you do find the right man give him the players that he wants not let a committee decide.
196 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:48:06
197 Posted 01/11/2017 at 10:49:42
You've mentioned him on a few threads now and I just don't see it mate. For me he's another Martinez, mobile going forward but can't set up a defence. Watford have conceded 19 already, one less than us plus his Hull team conceded a shedload too, same as Watford an average of 2 a game.
Ok a few of the Koeman signings have been head scratchers but Silva signing Andre Gray for £18.5m in the last year of his contract doesn't instil confidence either, I'm Also concerned that he only signs short term contracts. Watford is for two years.
Genuine question, what am I not seeing?
198 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:00:10
I didn't want Moyes I don't want Allardyce or Dyche but right here and now we are not in a position to be choose and implement football snobbery. We are up shite creek mate. A fancy name from the continent won't touch us at present. The clock is ticking.We need to win 10 games from 28 to stay up which at the moment looks unlikely. To me Allardyce with his record of saving teams from the drop is a quick fix but no brainer. Pondering over the style of football Sam churns out is irrelevant.
We just need to stay up mate. That's my point. We can't afford any new guy time to learn the PL while on the job or we go through the trapdoor.
199 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:17:23
I don't want Allardyce, but I have to say that there are an awful lot of uncomfortable and depressing truths contained in your post at 182.
200 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:18:26
It was hell. We put up with playing defensive at times that season as we rode the crest of the wave all the way to 4th. Could we put it with it now?
Say Big Sam came in and won his first three games, look at our fixtures by the way, because at the start of the season we would have had these games down for a run of maximum points, so it is very much feasible. So Big Sam is in, he's won those games, we are now in midtable, playing classic Bolton Football with Sigurdsson as our Jay-Jay Okocha (love Jay-Jay and he was a flair player but he didn't play like that for Allardyce) and Rooney as our Cristophe Dugarry, then what next. Big Sam doesn't want to then hand of the reins because we are safe, he's not going to break the habit of a lifetime and play champagne football. He's asking for big money and he wants one last pay day. He'd also get his son involved as an agent and sign loads of dodgy transfers with the next 18 months as his goal. Big Sam hates youth, so forget Davies and co, they'll be sold off.
18 months of watching some of the worst football this side of West Brom, no not for me. Keep this crook out of our club and don't let him destroy what we are building towards.
Ok we have been hit hard over the last sixth months, our legs are wobbling, and some think we might go down, but now is not the time to panic. We need to stay focused, stay on track, keep with the plan with the academy and bring in a manager who will tap into that.
We have some very good players. We have a load of good players. They are badly coached. That's the main thing I see. They show no signs at all of coaching. There was no shape, there was no movement, there was no cohesion. Big Sam can coach a defence, but he is not a good coach of attacking players. This squad is made up heavily of attacking midfielders and we need someone who can utilise them. This is sorted out on the training pitch. This is not sorted out by some loudmouth dinosaur manager who just shouts at players. Don't give me that Prozone crap, Big Sam was ahead of his time in analytics yes, but that was 20 years ago. Now he is behind the times.
Management is a team game. Where is Big Sam's team? They have all moved on. He won't be putting the band back together, not unless Moshiri is going to pay loads of compensation to drag people out of other clubs. Some won't be happy to leave for what they will see as a short term job, particularly if they are in long term contracts.
Football management is not just about picking the side, signing players, and shouting at players. It is mostly about coaching. The players run 2.5 times further a game than they did in our great side of the 1980s. watch highlights of the great side, watch players stick to position a lot more than they do now. Steven and Stevens will stay firmly on the right side of the pitch when the ball is on the left touchline. These days the players in the same or similar positions are a good 20 yards further other. The central midfielders are meant to always be close to the ball. The team runs over the pitch as a team. The shape is meant to stay in tact and shuffle about the pitch and not the ball go about the formation like in the 1980s.
Big Sam is a dinosaur. He has not got what it takes to manage this club. We are not Sunderland. We are Everton. We need to be back in the top 10 and we need to do it playing good football. This season can still be saved and we need a top coach to do it. Not a manager. A Coach. Somebody like Marco Silva or Thomas Tuchel. It is difficult to analyse British coaches because you cannot watch what they do. The foreign coaches coach in front of the cameras you can google them and watch their work on YouTube. David Unsworth appears to be a great coach. How can I say that with any degree of certainty? By reading what the academy lads say about him. They don't talk about how he gave them a chance and they are grateful for that, they talk about how he changed and developed their games. Even the lads who have left have good things to say about him. Google Ryan Ledson for one. But there's a long list of them.
Our academy coaches have been slagged off above, but our academy coaches might just be the best in the world. We have achieved excellence for over a decade now. Which academy has produced the most England internationals in the Premier League era? Ours by a long long way. Spurs might have more England internationals, but they buy them in like Alli. We take local lads and make them great.
Just look at some of the players who we had looking like superstars like Francis Jeffers, Jack Rodwell, and Michael Ball. Someone above slagged off Jeffers but clearly he forgot his history. Read the page on here about Jeffers to refresh your memory if you forgot. Ball and Jeffers have similar stories. Great young players going somewhere when they suffer career threatening knee injuries. We sell them knowing that they are damaged goods for big fees and they pass medicals thanks to injections. Arsenal complained and this is now an illegal practice. Rangers sued us to avoid making further payments on Ball because we sold him injured. Both had disappointing careers but both are explained by injury. Same could be argued for Rodwell. Rodwell was a terrific talent in the academy. Don't forget he was a centre-half, a two footed centre half, who could bring the ball out and play. So Moyes didn't trust him and made him a midfielder and for a year or so he was great before we sold him to City, again knowing he had injury issues and that it was better to take City's money.
The point is the academy is doing great work. The quality of the players is astounding. Clearly, it is not just us as the England U17s were amazing. Our academies are all producing such technical footballers. Even lads like Ledson now in League 1 are so neat and tidy on the ball, can use both feet and can play high quality technical stuff.
Unsworth deserves a lot of credit for taking something that was good and making it even better. His job title is Director of Coaching. So all of the above is relevant because clearly he is in charge of the coaching. Someone posted a terrific article on Unsworth were it went into detail about how he explained to the FA how they needed to improve English coaching, back before he had coached at Sheff Utd, Preston or indeed us. The guy knows his stuff and should be given a chance to prove it.
Big Sam has never been renowned as a coach. to be fair to him, he is a great delegator. Like Ferguson, who was the best manager in this country by getting others to coach the side, be it Kidd, Querioz, Meulenstein, or Phelan. But Big Sam would need to bring a coaching setup with him, and he would need to put it together quickly.
Unsworth has one in place. He also has been going on loads of these coaching courses and will have a good idea of who the next big thing is in coaching, and he might have a few ideas of people he can bring in with good ideas. He can't bring them in right now, because they'll most likely already have jobs, but if he had the job full time then he will have the ability to do so.
This also raises the question for Tuchel. Who like Big Sam is an out of work manager. It is fine for a very highly paid manager to sit out of work. The coaching staff are very well paid by our standards, but they are not so well paid that they can afford to sit back and spend a year unemployed. I'm guessing here, but Tuchel's team are likely to have all got new jobs, and then the question is as to how difficult it is to get them out of their jobs, if they will leave them, or to get new guys.
Some on here have said give Sam the job and have Unsworth as his number 2. It simply does not work like that. The number 2 is meant to know the manager inside out. He is meant to be an extension of him. Peter Taylor did all the things Brian Clough couldn't. Colin Harvey was a superb coach and supplemented Kendal. How would fusing Unsworth and Allardyce work? I doubt Big Sam would even go for it. The new manager, whoever he is will be the figurehead of a team, and you have to let him bring his team with him.
We should give Unsworth the job as "interim manager" until the end of the season, allow him to assemble a proper coaching staff and help reassemble the academy coaching staff if a load move up with him, and then review the position in January and at the end of the season.
Meantime, Silva can be tapped up, via his agent, and he can prove he is no flash in the pan, flavour of the month, or whatever clichÃ© you want to use. Watford are a business owned solely to make their owners, the Pozzo family, money from selling players. Silva won't want to stay there long term for that reason and if they sell players, why not sell the manager?
Moshiri needs a long term view here. We know where we want to go. I certainly know where I want the club to go. I know how we can get there. We need to prospective manager to show how he can fit into this and execute the plan for the long term. Everything should be about the long term. We should be insisting on Champions League football by 2022.
201 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:19:56
We havent got one or a spare one , so big Sams methods can't even be implemented for about 10 weeks.
I don't want him anyway .
202 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:33:58
Any appointment of anyone outside the club will derail the biggest amount of potential we have ever had...
Browning (playing well at Sunderland until recently)
Even the likes of Connelly, Pennington, Galloway, Williams (who plays every game for Barnsley), Gibson, Bowler, Henen
It's not unfeasible for 5/6 of these to make it and form the basis of the team for years. How many of these will be given a chance under a new manager.
Let Unsworth take control, accept that we'll struggle at times but ultimately there will be at least 3 teams worse than us this season (I reckon we'll end up mid table, have some blinding performances and some crap ones) and watch them kick on in future years.
203 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:37:56
I see the tosspots at the Sun are now linking us with Nuno Espirito Santo from Wolves - ANOTHER manager from a lower league!
Everton are a bloody joke, and I'm sick to death of it all now.
Tinpot Everton, always recruiting from the shitpile.
204 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:38:23
Seriously, Moyes, Martinez and now Unsworth have all confirmed they speak to our dear leader on a daily basis. I firmly believe this is why Bill never really liked Koeman, I don't think he would have put up with someone singing show tunes down the blower to them while they were taking training.
Don't forget, every new signing thanked Bill when they signed this summer. Does anyone seriously think Kenwright is taking a back seat? No chance. He's promoted all his pals to the board, consolidating his power base, and got a grateful little ex-player in every corner of the club. He's not letting go any time soon.
This is precisely the reason why he never sold up for the past 20 years, he finally found a mug to let him keep firmly hold of the club, whilst cashing in to the tune of 㿚m. An actor who can go misty-eyed at the drop of a hat can be very persuasive, looks like Mosh has fell for his BS hook, line and sinker.
205 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:45:05
Edit: Just checked and he was the guy who Gary Neville replaced at Valencia. He resigned with Valencia stuttering despite a big outlay before Neville worked his magic and completely wrecked them. He also managed Porto. He left after spending a load and winning nothing. He's had a solid but unremarkable career, but retains a good win % due to the clubs he's managed in the leagues he has managed. Maybe he will come good at Wolves, who knows.
If you want to take a punt on a lower league manager, then why not Chris Wilder of Sheff Utd, I listened to Holloway talk about him on radio 5, and read up a bit on his tactics and how he plays a back 3, but gets the wide centre backs to press. Itsounds a bit like Nagelsmann.
206 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:47:22
Everyone is blaming Moshiri for appointing Koeman, but the other name most fans wanted was Frank De Boer, who was equally as bad.
207 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:50:43
Jesus Wept when are you all going to wake up.?? You are all living on Fantasy Island.
We are shite in the bottom 3 with a dreadfull goal difference. We have no money to spend in January unless we sell Barkley and Niasse. Our chairman and his Billionaire shareholder are useless halfwits and full of shit., Goodison Park is a wreck has been for yearsand is on par with Fratton Park The club have s nerve charging fans to go in. .The players are either to old or to young none of them in thier prime apart from the ones we are selling..We are about to go on live TV again on Thursday and get mauled in France by Lyon., The new stadium is as much a pipe dream as Kings Dock was..New tier on the park end coming up...Oh and the Toffee lady has ran off with the ball boy.!!!
Come on guys what do we have to attract the big fancy coach from the continent,? What's so good about EFC that Stoke or WBA can't offer because that's were we are right now.
Take it on the chin get up and dust yourselves down.We are not a big club,School of Science
Nil Satis are long gone. If you all keep falling for the crap the club puts out and remain in a delusional state then welcome to hell.
..See you all in the Championship .
208 Posted 01/11/2017 at 11:57:11
As for inter, he got sacked just as he had got the performances right, but he clearly had a chairman who had his finger on the button and was just waiting to press it. If he had been given one more opportunity, then the signs are they were coming good. All Inter fans were in agreement that the sacking was very harsh.
Even for his great playing career, and that of his twin brother, as they very much come as a pair, it seems like his coaching career is now in tatters on the back of two very poor choices of job.
He said a lot of nice stuff about us, he really wanted the job (at Everton), I think he was ready for the job, having done his homework, and I think he would have done well. He would have continued what Martinez did well and I think he could have sorted out that defence. I doubt he would have made as many changes as Koeman did.
209 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:00:32
I have just read, and had to re-read to make sure you actually said it, that Moshiri is a halfwit and that we have no money to spend. Tony, let's re-visit this on 1st February. I predict right now that we will have a net spend of at least £50m.
210 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:07:02
211 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:10:26
so the successful managers are
Mourinho. Chomping at the bit to work with Kenwright?
Conte. Another wooden animal that has been put on the Merry Go Round at Chelski.
Wenger. Unfortunately his head is buried too deep in the sand at the Arse.
Guardiola. As Mourinho.
Ancelotti . A couple of cameo reigns at Chelski. (lost the players at Bayern)
Pellegrini. The walking dead just right for this time of year.
Pochettino. You would hear the laughing from here if he was approached.
Ranieri. Won the title then imploded.
Well that's the successful ones the also rans are just as untried and not really better than Unsworth (when he's had a fortnight watch him go).
Forgot Mancini, too involved in a new Pink Panther film.
212 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:11:04
213 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:18:47
The winners of the Premier League in reverse order:
2017 - Conte - did not know the Premier League and won it first season.
2016 - Ranieri - had managed before but over 10 years before - won it first season
2015 - Mourinho
2014 - Pellegrini - never managed in Premier League before, won it first season
2013 - Ferguson
2012 - Mancini - never managed in the Premier League before
2011 - Ferguson
2010 - Ancelotti - never managed in the Premier League before - won it first season
2007 to 2009 - Ferguson
2005 to 2006 - Mourinho - never managed in the Premier League before.
The evidence shows that it is easy to win "the world's most competitive league" (TM Sky) for foreign coaches.
214 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:25:41
215 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:30:28
I really don't understand why he is even allowed to work in football in any capacity.
If he gets the job at Everton, I will suspend my love of the club (which has lasted over 50 years through thick and thin) until he gets the sack.
I'm with Paul Mackie #205...
216 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:32:19
There you go again shooting yourself in the foot mate.
All of the managers you mentioned took over top clubs with money big money to spend.How many took over a skint club in the bottom 3? None is the answer of course. Also Ferguson taking over Utd was 30 years ago football is a different animal now.
I have no doubt that if we were top 6/7 at the minute we could attract a decent name here. When I say know the PL I am referring to a manager who would know what it is like in the bottom 3 fighting relegation. This is a whole different ball game to what Guardiola and Anchelotti get to do at clubs. If you and others cant recognize this then I feel sorry for you.
217 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:39:34
Our trouble is, we are saddled with a lop sided collection of players that will need to be sifted, in extrewmely short time, to ensure we don't go down. That to me, is the overwhelming number 1 priority. Then we need to look at what's available in January to try and get somewhere in the middle.
Can, Williams and Jagielka, be our first pairing all season? does either of them instill any confidence in our new centre half? Who will come in for Baines, who looks to be a weakness? Who will take over the right full back position if Seamus doesn't come back until next year and then there's the situation up front.
I don't like the idea of Sam Allardyce, but to me, it is shit or bust time and about time a decision is made.
I cannot see any manager of the above list, who are still available, wanting to come to EFC until the season has ended, at least.
218 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:40:34
As for the guy who'd prefer us relegated than have Sam, does the club not come first?
219 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:43:26
Why cant we show a little more faith in Unsworth, in his 2 games the team have been more positive than they have been in almost 4 seasons. With the run of fixtures he has had very little time to work with the players in fact I think after tomorrows game they will have done more travelling to and from games than time on the training ground since he took over.
Both the candidates being touted are long ball merchants is that really what this club I have supported for over 60 years has come too. We are in the bottom 3 because of what our previous manager did. Please Everton are better than Allardyce or Dyche and it is well to early to start pushing panic buttons. Let Unsworth be given till Xmas to turn things around as I think he will. I am sure that if we appoint either of these 2 it will all end in tears not for either of these 2 they will walk away a lot richer than when they joined. The tears will be for the loyal fans left behind wondering how again we clear up the mess they will leave behind.
220 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:45:24
Lets face it we have no control whatsoever of who they appoint. I personally have no confidence that they will appoint the right person but I do think you will get a clear indication of the ambitions and status of our football club.
Tony is right, Nil Satis.. you are having a laugh.
But wanting them relegated or stop supporting, no way and I cannot believe that is a consideration for some blues.
Whilst Kenwright runs the club, and do not kid yourself that he doesn't then we need to prepare ourselves for a lot more of the shite we have endured already for far too long.
221 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:45:43
Everton is an absolute dream job for loads of these guys. They never get a crack at what a club that has finished outside of the top 11 once in the last 20 years, and one with a big pot of money, a squad assembled for over £200m (shit or not), the best academy in the league, with no less than 5 world cup winning u20s, and 28 games "to save them". It's an absolute doddle of a job.
Which is why no one has ruled themselves out. Look at Big Sam, early interviews and he was dismissive of the job, he's retired etc etc. Then it changes once he hears he actually has a shot at it. Dyche repeatedly refuses to rule himself out. Silva the same. Tuchel is asked and also doesn't rule himself out. Ancelloti the same, but he is now focused on unsettling Conte and is slipping back into the shadows at Chelsea. Fonseca was practically begging for the job last week.
Most foreign coaches would not say no.
Why? The job paid Koeman £6m a year. He was the SEVENTH HIGHEST PAID coach / head coach / manager in WORLD SPORTS at the time he took the job. Sorry for the capitals but I could not emphasise that enough. The seventh highest paid in any sport in the world. Who in the their right mind would refuse it. I bet under fire Zidane who is on about half that wouldn't rule himself out either, especially if he really is a game from the sack himself (despite winning 2 CLs which shows what a shit show Fascist Madrid really is - now that is a club that deserves Allardyce).
222 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:49:56
However, Allardyce is a crook. His football is the worst I've ever seen. He makes Pullis look like Guardiola. And I will exercise my right not to go to the ground or spend my hard earned money, and will instead cheer them on from my armchair. And I will certainly not be alone, and I have emailed the club on that very point.
223 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:50:57
Looking at the performance levels of our players during the Koeman games this season and comparing them to the performance levels of the two Unsworth games, you can see a shift in commitment and application.
I truly believe we will be o.k. I'm under no illusions as to our 'greatest blue ever' and his potentially negative impact at Board-level. He (and us) need to give Unsworth time to work with the players.
I think the following will see an up-turn in fortunes:
1. elimination from the Europa League
2. dropping Wayne Rooney completely
3. consistency of team selections
4. playing players in their correct position
5. improvement of fitness levels
6. signing a striker or two and injured players returning
Being eliminated from the Europa League allows us extra training and recovery days - meaning Unsworth gets more time on the training pitch to convey what he wants from the players.
I'm failing to see what Wayne Rooney brings to our team. Can anyone enlighten me? This move has failed - big time.
The players need to play as a group. Constantly chopping and changing players and formations does not create positive consistency. Selection should be based on form. Changing formations frequently requires certain players to play in positions they are not used to playing - keep it simple.
A number of players seem below the required fitness level for Premier league football. have them work hard, give them a deadline and if they have not improved their fitness tell them they will not play until it is improved.
We need Barkley and Coleman back, at full fitness, as soon as possible. They are big creators, with pace. Huge miss for the team. We also (obviously) need more firepower - if Walsh has not identified targets and is not in the process of signing them NOW ready for January 1st - he needs sacking on January 2nd!
224 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:52:18
Personally, if I was Moshiri, I would make Tuchel my number one target. A transformative positive, tactical coach (rather than manager) who can take Everton into the Champions League. It's not going to be this season, but there's no need to panic.
If not him, then another in the same vein. I'd certainly appoint someone closer in style to Martinez than Koeman. This needs to be an ambitious appointment, but not necessarily a big name. Someone with a plan rather than a reputation and the drive to implement it. Dyche doesn't strike me as that.
Someone who is capable of a plan A, B and C. And if not immediately available, then Unsworth is more than capable of filling in.
225 Posted 01/11/2017 at 12:58:03
Overall, he drifts in and out of games. He fades badly and then suddenly his touch and passing is gone. It is a very similar situation to Barkley for me. He is doing a lot of bad, but the good is the only good the team has. Without him, we are worse. Only Rooney and Niasse have scored in the league! He's creating chances. He should be getting assists but others are not delivering. So really, despite some poor performances, he is doing his bit but, I would say that by others not doing their bit, they are making him look worse. Then he compounds things by trying to do too much. For example for the first Leicester goal, look at Rooney charging back in the left back position. He is the centre forward, yet he is trying to cover a defensive position. Perhaps it means too much to him, I would say he is trying too hard. but then there is others who are not trying hard enough at all. Criticise him by all means. He has not been great, but to say what is the point of him is ridiculous.
226 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:04:16
For example. Look at the squad, how about a bonkers team that utilises everything we have:
(NO STRIKER OR FORWARD)
Lookman Sigurdsson Rooney Vlasic
Baines Jagielka Keane Kenny
Tuchel is a deep thinker and I could see him trying to make a go of things by using a 460 formation like the one above. The attacking midfield four can all be considered runners and with his coaching I am sure he can get them closing down. Then he can have DCL as a wide player offering height on the bench or as a plan B if we need to switch formation. Niasse as an alternative.
227 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:10:01
- You should be able to help struggling players and a struggling team.
- You should be really good with tactics and make adaptions according to the situation.
- You should be good with young players and develop them by teaching, coaching and letting them play in the first team
- You should think long term and build a dynasty
- You should be superb in the transfer market
- You should be a really good guy
My choice is Philip Cocu - yes another Dutch but this one is way better...
228 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:12:54
For someone as tactically aware as yourself I'd of thought that you'd understand the affect on team shape, ball retention etc when you have your striker in the left-back position (your example - although I also remember on too many occasions this season seeing our potential-15-20 goal striker occupying a deep-midfield position).
Despite the valid points you raise Steve, you have not convinced me that the money spent bringing Rooney back could not have been better allocated.
229 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:17:14
I do like this sort of approach though, it shows we are considering all options instead of just; "Give it to Unsy, he'll play the kids." 'Cos that will solve all our problems!
230 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:22:24
Steve, put the glue down, and step away from the Vodka.
231 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:22:40
You know the people who have to perform on the field and actually get the result!
The only two players that are anywhere near top 6 quality are both injured.
Have we ever signed a player that the top 6 clubs wanted at that time, no.
Any manager has his work cut out to get our squad playing good winning football as we are poor in the positions that have already been done to death in this and other threads
Bringing in a foreign manager who has no experience of the premiership on a big contract is asking for another failure and a 㾶m pay off again.
Leave David in charge for another 4-6 games, after all he knows the players better than any replacement would.
If play and results are not good enough make Allardyce a good short term contract offer that's
worth his while to take.
232 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:23:48
As for his performances, I said I was not happy with him. No doubt Koeman was not happy with him. But he is playing as such that to leave him out is a bad move, as he is the only one making things happen.
That does not mean that if I was the manager that I would not give him a rollicking. I would like to see more of him in a 433. Two pacy forwards either side of Rooney in the 9. If you went with Calvert-Lewin on the right, then he can make the run to the middle to take Rooney's vacated position when he drops. I'd also want to see the left forward trying to get into the box and this is the position I had hoped Sandro would occupy. With him out of form, I'd stick with Mirallas there.
Rooney will always drop deeper. He is incapable of walking around the pitch in position if the game is not going his way (which is not the same as our way - which is another criticism of him). He will chase after the ball and try to do something. But at the end of Koeman's reign, we had too many who were hiding from the ball.
I would not allow Rooney to drop too deep though. He must remain ahead of the midfield three. We need pace and width at the top end, but in the middle we need to be compact and energetic. Get back to what worked last season and go with an inverted triangle of Schneiderlin Gueye and Davies. Gueye and Davies need to close down in tandem and work together better with Schneiderlin sitting but shuffling behind to plug gaps so that the Gray incident does not happen again. Baningime is an interesting alternative as well.
We need the engine behind Rooney working and getting him the ball, then we need options wide and with pace and then with movement like Lennon showed, Rooney will carve teams open. Without him, who is going to unlock defences?
233 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:25:21
234 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:25:38
235 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:31:31
236 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:33:17
237 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:33:37
238 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:36:18
239 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:45:49
240 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:49:05
1. Speak to Tuchel and Ancelotti in person or via their agents and guage their interest. If they express their interest then pay them for their time, give them DVD for every game this season (90 minutes not highlights and the ones that the club uses which have every camera angle not just the TV pictures). Arrange an interview in say a weeks time, and request a presentation from them on how they will fix the side and make it work prior to the window opening. As I said, we would need to pay them for their time in doing this. If they respond positively (and I expect Ancelotti would probably refuse to do this) then I would interview them and listen to what they say and just how plausible it is. We would talk coaching staff and long term deals. If Suitably impressed I would appoint Tuchel without going further down this chain than two.
2. Whilst 1 is going on, I would also be speaking to the agent of Dyche, Silva and Fonseca. I would also be gauging their interest, we would need to appoint a club agent to make enquiry as to the release fee for each. We would not be able to make an approach and so could not do 1 with these guys.
3. Assuming 1. has failed or they fail to impress, I would appoint Unsworth as interim manager. I would tell him he has until the end of the season, and contract him as such. I would try to reassure him it is big picture here and not short term results that will get him the job fulltime and so if he grinds out some boring 0-0s that get us up and out of trouble, we would see that as a positive, if he can then move to stage two later in the season and try to then start winning games and closing back in on our target position of 7th.
4. The contingency plan would be Big Sam. Of course, on a personal level I do not want him, but if I was a cold hardnosed professional like Moshiri I would engage him. Again I would ask for a plan like in point 1. I would also guage his relationship with Unsworth and see if there is a way to bring him in a consultancy basis. Call it a retainer. He would not need to do the day to day stuff but could be in and around the club and get a feel for it. He could advise on transfers, performances, coaching, and have any input he sees fit. The main reason for this would be to get big Sam engrained in the club if it really goes pair shaped and we really do end up in the shit.
5. If results do not go Unsworth's way. I would have continued the dialogue with the agents on the guys in 2. If there was some talk from the agents that made me think Silva was a go, I would move to speak to him officially and try to get a grasp from him as to what a Marco Silva led Everton would be like. We can take our time with this because these guys really need the window open. Should Unsworth be failing badly, then I would look to appoint one of these guys, and then it would be up to them about Big Sam's continued role.
6. If Unsworth gets past January and things were going ok, but have now gone off a cliff, then that's when you could play the Big Sam card. he's already been in and around the club, he's had a chance to have a say on targets, he's been earning good money for doing little in his consultancy role. But now you can look to appoint him as manager, and to get us out of the crap, knowing that he already has a good knowledge of the players and the methods and can use that a headstart to get us out of it.
Of course, on a personal level, I wouldn't want Allardyce anywhere near the club, but if I was Moshiri then this is the way forward I would go.
241 Posted 01/11/2017 at 13:53:11
242 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:08:46
Fonseca begging for the job? Any link or where can I read that? A genuine question, interested to read that.
243 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:08:57
244 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:15:05
Sam Allardyce is to hold talks with Everton over their vacant managerial position, but he wants a lucrative contract to take the job.
Everton will not make an imminent approach for Burnley boss Sean Dyche.
I swear to God, if Kenwright gives that fat useless money grabbing conman the Everton job, I'm finished with them until both go, oh and he can take Moshiri and magic wizard Walsh with him.
245 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:26:18
As supporters we'll have to live with whomever the owner/board decide upon or more realistically who they can persuade to take the job. The manager of Wolves has apparently turned us down.
As Raymond rightly pointed out we are stuck with this same group of players until January and unless they decide it's time to turn up and give it a go, any manager will find it difficult to produce a string of good results. I also agree that it might be prudent to keep Unsworth in charge for another month or two unless of course Everton FC manage to appoint a manager who they truly want rather than one who happens to be available.
Just read that Dyche's Premier League points per game is exactly the same as Roberto Martinez's albeit over a shorter run of matches.
246 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:31:49
Everton, Allardyce, owner (still despite what you think,) fkg Bill Kenwright.
Why have we not been sold to billionaire's? Yes, you guessed it, fkg Bill (i only want investors) Kenwright! I can see Tranmere Rovers being bought by billionaires before boys pen Bill sells.
Allardyce as manager? Youre welcome to him, and Everton, and uncle Bill, and auntie Moshiri! As I said, if he does get the job, I'm supporting Miami Dolphins!
247 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:38:53
248 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:45:56
249 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:52:16
250 Posted 01/11/2017 at 14:56:24
Does his mum know?ðŸ˜
251 Posted 01/11/2017 at 15:22:11
252 Posted 01/11/2017 at 15:26:55
Are you on about Ebbrell and Unsworth? The first may not have been the most gifted, limited in ability, but grafted his arse off, always gave his best and "progressed" to being part of the last team to actually fucking win something for the club. Same goes for Unsworth. As for the "nightclub" nonsense? Bartonesque bollocks.
Why are two honest, decent professionals, who have only ever tried their damnedest for the club and are widely acknowledged to have done a fine job in their current roles, suddenly deserving of scorn on the back of nothing more concrete than 'they used to play for the club so must be on a cushy number while contributing nothing of merit'?
Sound reasoning for believing both should be jibbed off from their roles with the under 23's when a new manager moves in, that is.
It's absolutely "ludicrous" that two such 'losers' should be on the coaching staff, despite their charges winning the league they're competing in and producing a number of players on the verge of the first team squad?
Pair of fucking flops (in...err...everything but the particular role they were employed to perform).
Why are they front and centre at the moment? Sticking their head above the parapet and stepping in when the shit has well and truly hit the fan seems a strange move for a couple of bums happy to coast along in a Bill buffered 'comfort zone'.
They're trying to put a halt to a wretched run of results and performances and find something that looks like a team amongst a moronically assembled squad of overpriced shite. A massive clusterfuck left behind by the 'world class winner' whose 'reputation', 'ruthlessness' and 'straight-talking' you lapped up.
Whether they will prove capable of doing so is debatable, but to condemn them as being of no value to the club, in any coaching capacity, on the back of failing to crack it within a week, is a splenetic call coloured by the presumption that anyone currently in situ is automatically tarred by the stick of 'complete shite' simply because Kenwright will countenance their presence.
(N.B: strange as fuck that any Everton fan would measure the worth of a coach by the number of full England caps they won as a player).
253 Posted 01/11/2017 at 15:29:03
254 Posted 01/11/2017 at 15:38:53
255 Posted 01/11/2017 at 15:46:13
Samuel fak arf, fik ef Alardyce!
256 Posted 01/11/2017 at 15:54:47
Paul 250 - Been following your ramblings today but please help me with this one. What exactly are you saying? Please enlighten me about the red button bit. I no understand.
257 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:07:14
Now I remember before Martinez was appointed there was all sorts of silly movements in the market with Martin O'Neill and Harry Redknapp both coming from outsider positions to the top of the betting, but it's a little odd that the others have all lengthened so far.
In fact, Alan Pardew is now fifth favourite at 16/1.
258 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:09:12
There's a passage in Brian Viner's "Looking For The Toffees" where he's talking to Stan Bowles..
"I told him what Alan Hudson once plaintively said to me, that the trio of him, Bowles and the similarly blessed Frank Worthington did not collectively get as many England caps as Carlton Palmer.
'Yeah', Bowles said...'I even had less than Ralph fucking Coates'
259 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:12:56
260 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:24:54
261 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:25:05
It was in every paper that day. Now of course it does not say please give me the Everton job. But remember he is a manager in the Russian League. Why do the Russian Press (no English Journos there) suddenly ask him about the Everton job? He wasn't asked about Leicester or West Ham or any other job, it was Everton. For me, he has asked a journo to ask him that question because he knows it will filter back to England and Everton and get him talked about here and so he can get himself in the running.
262 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:28:21
263 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:36:42
264 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:37:57
It is all getting a bit trying, isn't it. However, we cannot afford to rush the decision and risk another Koeman scenario. Martinez was not rushed - just did not work out after great signs for two thirds of the first season. History now.
265 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:40:58
I like how Jeffers came to Everton with a great deal of scepticism from the club itself. They seemed to imply that they did not think he would be a good coach on the basis that he was not a good trainer (as a player). But he clearly needed a purpose and did not need the money. So he worked voluntary with the u18s as a striker coach and earnt a contract and has worked his way up. Someone (probably Unsworth) rates his coaching abilities.
Ebbrell is someone who has had glowing reports on the official site. His personality should be such that he should be a good coach. He is a grafter for sure. He was the record holder for appearances at u21 level for years. He's someone who never fulfilled his potential (injuries are blamed for that) and who had to work hard to make the most of his talents.
Often the best coaches are players who are limited by ability and so have to work hard mentally to make up for it. They develop a deeper understanding of the game and usually become coaches and tap into that to pass it on to their players. I believe that Ebbrell is in this mould.
266 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:48:13
267 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:50:37
268 Posted 01/11/2017 at 16:55:58
269 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:15:30
Did Leicester really think Ranieri would win the PL when they appointed him?
We thought Koeman was going to get us into the top four. He didn't.
Kendall was on the verge of the sack but went on to win two league titles, FA Cup and Cup Winners Cup.
Who knew anything about Potchettino when Southampton took him on. Look at him now.
The fact is that the vast majority of managers will never win anything in their entire careers and these days those that do is only because they are managing mega rich clubs full of world class players.
I don't have any idea who our next manager is going to be but the chances are whether it a big name manager or a safe pair of hands whether they are successful or not will be down to fluke luck. They may gel instantly with the squad and everyone of them will start playing out of their skins and we can stop worrying or, like Koeman. the squad will not like his methods and the struggling will continue.
270 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:30:39
1. May as well just appoint the next manager by way of pulling names out of a hat then.
2. Did Nantes think they were in with a shot of winning Ligue 1 this season when they appointed him? He's up to his old tricks again.
3. Pochettino was famous as an Argentinian international footballer. Michael Owen tore him a new one in the England Argentina match in World Cup '02 and he gave away the penalty that Beckham scored. He then worked wonders with Espanyol and was highly regarded. He was known as one of the Bielsa disciples.
Come on Frank hiring and firing the manager is the single biggest thing the board can do. It can make or break the football club. It's not just down to luck. Of course bad luck can wreck a season and get a good manager sacked, but the good ones always bounce back. Good managers can also do stupid things and get themselves sacked, eg Clough @ Leeds and Mourinho with the female Doctor at Chelsea.
In the past foreign managers would come over and no one would know anything about them. Now, La Liga and the Dutch League is on Sky Sports, Bundeasliga, Serie A and Ligue 1 is on BT. There's not really a foreign manager that you won't know about and if you won't google them and you'll find a long list of assessments from football journos.
It makes every difference who the manager is, as Koeman just proved. And it could end up costing us over £50m to have got rid of him by the time we can do an audit on the players lost values (Barkley) and transfer fees squandered. The Barkley issue alone should show you how big a difference the manager makes.
271 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:39:04
If that's the case why do so many of them end up getting the sack? Do you think Moshiri didn't do his homework before appointing Koeman (who was a famous Dutch footballer). Made no difference at all. Still failed and got the sack. As you say you might as well pull a name out of a hat because the next guy will always be the right one until he isn't. Then we start the whole process over again.
272 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:43:01
273 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:46:52
With regard to the U23 league, well, it's shite really isn't it? Most commentators recognise that. There's a massive clue in the fact that England teams derive from its products and the England team has been crap for nearly 30 years with no sign of improveming any time soon.
Still, let's put all our faith in Unsy and the lads eh, and not someone with an established track record of achieving survival even if the style of football is painful to watch and his personal morals, in Allardyce's case, are woeful?
It's past the time for Moshiri and the Everton NSNO dreamers to get real.
274 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:51:22
And no, I don't think Moshiri did his homework on Koeman, otherwise he would see that he had three good spells at Ajax, PSV and Southampton, but then bad spells at Valencia and Benfica. He's been very hit and miss as a manager and his record shows that without much homework being done.
275 Posted 01/11/2017 at 17:54:32
276 Posted 01/11/2017 at 18:09:46
He started at Estoril, a club on the West coast of Portugal not far from Lisbon and recognisable as a name to motor racing fans as the home of the Portuguese F1 Grand Prix. They were a nothing club he took out of 2nd division and kept in the top flight. on the back of that he got Sporting where he lasted a year and won the Portuguese charity shield but nothing of substance. 3rd Place with Sporting as about as expected and he was hoped to build on that, but he got sacked for not wearing a suit, I kid you not:
He quickly got the job at Olympiacos where he succeed Vitor Pereira (previously linked with us when Martinez was appointed) and of course he won the league, I say of course because it was the 11th time in a row they won it.
Next he went to Hull and whilst he took them down everyone was impressed by his efforts to turn them around and by giving them a fighting chance including wins over Liverpool.
This season you will be familiar with his work at Watford.
Thomas Tuchel has had a steady progression with promotion from Budesliga 2 to keeping an unfashionable side in the division and then doing well with Dortmund but only won the German Cup. He resigned for off the field reasons, three days later, but the exact reasons differ depending on who you ask.
These two guys are my preferred choices, but I would rather sit tight and give Unsworth a chance to show he can coach the side. Because, I believe that a good manager should be a good coach. Rather than just sell off all the players, like Koeman did with Martinez' side, I would rather coach the players and get them working well and bring through a couple of the kids and focus our funds on top players only.
277 Posted 01/11/2017 at 18:33:23
278 Posted 01/11/2017 at 18:51:50
An entirely different argument to the one the one I took issue with, Don.
Your original post tried to paint every ex blue on the coaching staff as having nothing substantial to offer in that capacity, purely on the basis of their having previously played for the club, not amassing enough England caps andâ€¦errâ€¦being declared bankrupt.
You can attempt to disparage the worth of the work carried out at Under 23 level as much as you like (although, why you would want to when it's about the only part of the club that continues to be run exactly as it should, I don't know), but you can't claim the men responsible for steering that side of things are unsuitable for the role and/or simply remain at the club purely on an erroneous â€˜job's for the boys' basis, when recent successes show they have fulfilled their every remit: win the league you are competing in, improve the young players under your charge and progress a number of them toward the first team squad.
279 Posted 01/11/2017 at 18:56:22
the managers name we would like as much as I hate guessing the starting 11. You ask questions that don't matter mate as many others do. My point about Unsworth is this. We don't have time to fuck about as we are in the bottom 3.Unsworth is a novice and it showed on Sunday.It scared me.
I called for Unsworth ahead of the likes of the dreaded David Moyes. Unsworth lost me with his line up at Leicester. In an ideal world with points on the board and time on our side great give Unsworth more time as long is there is a massive shift away from what Koeman was doing. Well there was no difference. It was a Flat performance at Leicester with an almost identical idiotic starting 11 the Koeman was fond of. We can't afford that at this crucial stage of our history.
To get really silly I would like Pep Guardiola as manager and Sanchez and Hazzard to sign from the London club's but it's not going to happen is it so why do fans ask me who I want? My honest opinion is we are not an attractive enough proposition to the top not managers at present because they will tarnish their reputation if we go down.
Twats who don't give a fuck like Koeman will come for the money and then piss off leaving a trail of destruction behind them. At this moment in time we need a proven escape artist. There a few of those about. You take your pick. Get a fancy name in with this squad in the bottom 3 they won't know what day it is. That's the reality of it.
280 Posted 01/11/2017 at 19:41:08
Guardiola had a good 12 months to get it right. If he was here you would be tearing your hair out and screaming how Martinez it all was. All the criticism that came his way last season was the exact same criticism we all had on here for Martinez. No plan B. No defence. Refusal to change. etc, etc.
So, we need to give Unsworth a chance. Everton cannot be rebuilt in a week, or even a month. And time is not of the essence now, it's the 1st November.
281 Posted 01/11/2017 at 19:48:46
Yes it is a very worrying situation but people must be given a bit more time than two games.
282 Posted 01/11/2017 at 19:48:54
283 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:04:00
284 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:07:12
Keane has a foot injury and the other three have been rested, while academy defender Morgan Feeney is in the squad.
"We just wanted to freshen it up, with one eye on Sunday," caretaker manager David Unsworth said, referring to the league game against Watford. Mmmmm?
285 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:16:19
I hope it's not Moyes, but yeah he'll get the gig before Sam I reckon.
286 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:19:46
287 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:34:40
Off the top of my head I can't think of any club in the circs we're now in achieving salvation by appointing a novice manager on the back of his success with U23's.
Since the start of the Premier League our club have produced just one notable player as far as I'm concerned, Rooney. Unsworth, Hibbert, Rodwell, Barkley, the best of them, were/are nothing special unfortunately.
We're far from alone in failing to deliver top-notch players through our own efforts by the way. Hardly anyone else does either and that's why England are shit, always.
So if we now appoint the U23 coach as manager we'll definitely be going it alone though, to relegation in my opinion.
288 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:54:32
Stop with your endless and needless criticisms and complaints. You say nothing constructive. You do not post in the good times. You seem only to follow Everton to be a vehicle to vent your frustrations.
289 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:58:05
290 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:01:34
291 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:10:11
292 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:28:34
Meanwhile back on Merseyside, we dream of having a team that can avoid relegation thanks to going into a busy campaign without a recognised striker and we hope that somehow a new stadium arrives sometime in the future - Why? Because we have a corner shop attitude to the most ruthless sport in the world, Kane would have been sold if he had played for Everton for the last few years as would any other asset of monetary value.
During Bill's tenure Everton FC has averaged 1.44 points per league game which is respectable but that average will never make us a force in the Premier League nevermind Europe.
293 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:29:15
If we don't turn early enough, it can be very costly. Let's not forget that a new manager needs to know the squad and address the Jan window too. It is one thing the team rallies around the coach, it is another to win though. A lot of us probably assumes Unsworth sort of know the team already which probably worked against him opinion wise.
I am of the opinion that we can win even with our unbalanced team, perhaps optimistically in that fashion. Admittedly, this view depresses my opinion of the selections RK and Unsworth have made. Until we confirm the hiring, Unsworth do have time. I'm just not sure if he can explore our options tactically. U23 is not EPL unfortunately.
294 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:39:05
I am now starting to feel that the days of greatness are far behind us now. I just don't see this mess ever being rectified until the day bill and all his mates leave this club. We truly are a sad state of affairs.
Spurs are what we could have been.
295 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:40:43
(I'm joking BTW)
296 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:40:56
297 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:41:03
Furthermore, as it saddens me to say it, I can't see us getting anything from the game.
I have just been watching Spurs v Madrid, and realise just how far we are behind, and the full extent of the shambles that Koeman has left.
298 Posted 01/11/2017 at 21:58:21
299 Posted 01/11/2017 at 22:02:42
Its saying its neck and neck Allardyce and Dyche at the moment with Allardyce shortening ( was 10/1 not long ago ) and Dyche drifting a little.
Silva is out to 10/1 now so I would doubt he's going to get the job.
Santo is down to 7/1!
They may at this stage have no more idea than we have, but they will be the first to know before the club announcement is made, because money talks!
Tony 247 says that if Allardyce is chosen and has a bad run of form fans will be in meltdown, Tony fans will be in meltdown whoever is manager if things don't improve.
300 Posted 01/11/2017 at 22:22:14
I quite see why we wouldn't want that sort of chap darkening our doors.
301 Posted 01/11/2017 at 22:23:02
I am not saying for one minute, that Dyche will be our new Messiah, but I would rather he got the job than the other tripehound yard dog.
Let's face it, beggars can't be choosers, but we don't even know whether Dyche would come, if asked.
Like I mentioned before, after watching the chasm in class between us and Spurs playing Real Madrid, almost off the park. Such is the depth, the outgoing manager's have reduced us to, Dyche might seem like the best bet.
I read somewhere too, that Crystal Palace would seek compo of ٠M if Blurt bag Sam got the job with us, not sure why that would be, probably some dodgy deal involving Sam Allardyce.
302 Posted 01/11/2017 at 22:30:30
£6m a year job, Dyche is not our level. We can get a top candidate. Many will risk it. We just have to find the right guy.
Assuming moshiri is prepared to pay big again.
303 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:05:02
304 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:19:05
Let the ToffeeWeb meltdown commence.
305 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:21:42
306 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:25:44
the managers name we would like".
"I called for Unsworth ahead of the likes of the dreaded David Moyes".
Says it all.
307 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:35:49
So no, not reliable news sources.
308 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:39:22
No he's not our level, he's presently above our level managing a team that recently beat us at Goodison. Managing a team with a budget far inferior to ours.
People need to wake up and realise we are NOT a big club anymore.
We've won fuck all for over 30 years and just can't keep living on LONG past glories.
Are we too good to go down? Are we fuck. We are in deep shit and all this talk of top managers coming to transform us into a solid team playing attractive football and winning lots of games between now and the end of the season is wishful thinking.
The only way out of this is for Moshiri to basically buy us out of it in January by spending huge amounts on new players.
It may even be too late by then.
309 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:45:51
310 Posted 01/11/2017 at 23:48:54
It's all bollocks.
311 Posted 02/11/2017 at 00:31:49
In January he has to spend on three such players, four if he wants centre-forward security, minimum, even if Bolasie, Seamus and Funes-Mori are fully fit again. Personally I won't be bothered if he finances a little of it by selling most or all of the following; Stekelenburg, Martina, Williams, Besic, McCarthy, Mirallas and Lennon.
312 Posted 02/11/2017 at 01:16:38
Win percentage Watford 34%
Win percentage Burnley 40%
Same mistake again! Are you sure this is the man?
313 Posted 02/11/2017 at 03:07:12
We then regroup in the summer and try and sell the club to someone like Ancelotti or Tuchel if they're free and we're still in the premier league. Under normal circumstances it would be crazy to say you'd prefer Big Sam to Ancelotti but we need an escape artist over Ancelotti, who wouldn't join us in a dog fight anyway.
I'll be happy without being over excited if we get Dyche. What I won't be happy about is if we get Big Sam or Moyes on a long contract.
I think Silva is probably the name that would appease most factions of our support. I don't think he'd leave Watford for us which is a pretty damning indictment of how far we've fallen this season.
314 Posted 02/11/2017 at 05:28:17
315 Posted 02/11/2017 at 08:12:11
I will be interested to see if anyone else has anything to say in response to you post.
He beat Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool in the space of 12 days (not 12 years) but he is not good enough for us because he plays "dour" football. Am I missing something here? Perhaps he is just a lucky son of a gun.
316 Posted 02/11/2017 at 08:26:25
So maybe he wasn't the bad man manager some make him out to be after all.
317 Posted 02/11/2017 at 09:34:05
Good to see the stats being produced. Let's hope Moshiri doesn't appoint on that basis. What win percentage would people expect Dyche to have upon entering the Premier Leauge. 80% might win him the league. How does that read?
I reckon Moshiri will go for the fancy name in time. By fancy, I mean foreign. Roy Keane it is.
318 Posted 02/11/2017 at 09:57:20
If the club fails in this , the new manager will fail too.
319 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:08:52
Koeman with the blessing of Bill and Moshiri has left us in a terrible mess. I thought DU would change things dramatically but I fear he will not be given the time to stamp his style and authority on the team.
Has the damage already been done? I fear it may well have been.
Another managerial appointment may only serve to confuse matters even more. The top foreign managers don't like operating under pressure, they like big budgets and job security.
Anyone remember Felix Magath (spelling) he came to Fulham with a big reputation and failed miserably.
I fear we are destined for an industrial journeyman, on a long contract and massive wages. Whatever happens like I said, I fear the damage has been done and it will take us seasons to rebuild and get some credibility back.
On another note. I've just seen Moyes on SSN, he stated that he has a few things on the go and it won't be long before he's back in management.
I shiver went right down my spine and not in a good way.
320 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:18:27
321 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:23:15
His dishonesty shone through as did his double standards when he tried to pinch out best players for fuck all.
The mans a snake.
322 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:29:45
I still don't think he should come back here, and don't think he will either, so I honestly don't believe it's worth us shouting about on here anymore. David Moyes is Everton history.
323 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:33:42
It is a cut throat business, he cut his own throat in the process though.
324 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:41:28
At least our league position was secure when he was around, since he left every other season is a disaster. He did have an eye for talent, Cahill, Arteta and Stones are part of his legacy.
Of course he won't come back, his heads wrecked, after dealing with BPB for over a decade, quite understandably.
Given the lack of real investment, some Evertonian's expectations are laughable , dream on guys.
325 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:42:24
Significant financial outlay is a medium to long term decision.
There's no way that kind of decision in the hands of a temporary or short term 'stabilising' manager.
Therefore we'll have a new manager by Christmas and it won't be the names that are currently topping the media's list.
Simple isn't it? Relax.
326 Posted 02/11/2017 at 10:43:37
327 Posted 02/11/2017 at 11:03:09
The problem a lot of our fan base has with our current situation is they don't seem to understand the difference between football at the top of the table playing for Champions League places and the bottom of the table fighting off relegation. It is two completely different aspects of football. What one coach may thrive at another will hate and visa versa. Different types of pressure different styles of play and tactics. I mean how would Anchelotti find it in the bottom 3 with a crap squad with fans and media on his back from day One? We just don't know and this applies to all the managers who have ever only managed big club's at the top end of the table.
So this is why I am in disbelief at some of the names being put forward to be our next manager. We just don't know do we unless it's a proven Houdini and there are not to many of these types about. EFC can not and must not bring in a guy with no experience of lower rung football. It would be suicide. Its ok learning on the PL job when it's your squad and you have had a pre season with the players but not like this FFS.
So guys I suggest you all lower your sights and expectations a little bit because this situation is just as bad as 94 when Big Joe took over and saved us from the drop. I fear there are no fancy continental types who have this ability in their locker.How could they possibly unless they have been there before?
Be carefull what you wish for guys.Turning your noses up at proven escape artists for a flashy foreign type who might think what the fuck is this I've landed in.
Sometimes it's better the devil you know..For a short while anyway..
328 Posted 02/11/2017 at 11:14:26
That said, it's extremely hard to see where our goals/points are going to come from. Relegation form of late, yes, relegation battle? Not quite but certainly on the horizon.
I do agree with you about the type of manager we need at the moment though - it's a good point, despite my wanting someone like Tuchel on a longer term basis.
Allardyce would probably be the right man at the right time - even if only for the season.
329 Posted 02/11/2017 at 11:15:22
We have a very unbalanced squad but there's some talent there? Even with the generally improved standard of the league were still a striker away from the team that finished 7th. And we've added a guy who was a huge part in keeping a Swansea up. And a guy who was a big part of Burnley's 'successful' season.
I could see a half decent manager bringing in a forward and transforming this team.
Shit, if we could do it with Kevin Campbell then why not this time around with money to spend?
330 Posted 02/11/2017 at 11:17:42
But the sad reality is that all of this was just a pipe dream and we should have known. We should never have had the audacity to dream big. Because what's the one thing Everton never let you down on? Letting you down.
So here we are, turning back not only the last page but several chapters. We're back to the bleeding Mitch Ward and Tony Thomas days. We're out of Europe, in the bottom three, we have a horrendously unbalanced squad, ageing stalwarts that have only ever known mediocrity and photosynthesise it into the blood of the entire club, and in all likelihood we're about to appoint a manager that puts us below the likes of Newcastle, West Ham, and Stoke in terms of our attractiveness to top players.
Everton. Nil Satis... ah bollocks to it. Let's just stay up and give it a good go in the derby. That's just about all we are.
331 Posted 02/11/2017 at 11:31:41
332 Posted 02/11/2017 at 11:46:09
The Felix McGath who came to Fulham was a joke. Germany was laughing at him in England.
He's basically the german Fat Sam.
So don't use him to besmirch the character of someone like Thomas Tuchel who has a cast iron reputation.
333 Posted 02/11/2017 at 12:00:26
Tuchel has to be the most exciting possibility. Whether he would want to come is debatable , and whether Moshiri would back him with his transfer kitty demands is also debatable.
I can see a future where he can sign a 3 or 4 key players , get the squad balanced and motivated and turn us into a feared team.
334 Posted 02/11/2017 at 12:46:44
"Dyche is not our level.
No he's not our level, he's presently above our level managing a team that recently beat us at Goodison. Managing a team with a budget far inferior to ours."
That's pretty reductive. There were times at the start of last season when Koeman was above Mourinho in the league does that mean he's at a higher level.
Dyche has never managed a team to a cup win, a top 7 finish or a European appearance. All things we aspire too and two of which we have achieved recently. Coming to us would undoubtedly be a step up for him in terms of pressure and expectation. Perhaps he would rise to the challenge and make us hard to beat but the best I could hope for under him would be a Moyes-esque team with practical football, top ten finishes and 'best of the rest' style mentality.
I would prefer someone like Tuchel who has won silverware, managed teams in Europe and managed a team to play beautiful football that is also effective.
Having said that perhaps Dyche would be capable of showing alot more given bigger budgets and resources. But it seems an unambitious move to me.
335 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:00:02
Except to stay in the Premier League.
Which is why I still think we will appoint Allardyce.
336 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:13:19
337 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:18:38
There is no way we are going to go down,but we cant afford to get stung again by another managers financial reward for failure, so whoever we get is going to have to deliver the goods. There is no hiding place here, the battle lines are clearly drawn. The next manager will have to deliver, or we are going to look like a bunch of total tossers.
I would love to see Unsworth given the chance here. Rome wasn't built in a day. Give the man a fair crack of the whip and have some faith in the youngsters.
338 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:23:20
He won't come cheap but he'd stabilise the team and he'd be able to attract decent players in January. He seems quite happy to do rescue missions these days.
339 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:25:33
There hasn't been a single second this season when Koeman was above Mourinho mate.
Utd won their first three games and had more points after three games than we presently have.
If you're going to accuse me of being reductive, get your facts right.
340 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:52:06
Really Dale? What are you basing that on? The players being too good or the manager being too experienced?
We are where we are because we struggle to score goals and to stop the opposition from scoring. I can't see either of those issues being resolved quickly. Perhaps Moshiri might fund a new center forward, centre half and left back in January but there are certainly no guarantees there are there?
I'm sure that like most of us you're pouring over the fixture list to see where they next points will come from. Palace and Southampton away in November; Liverpool, Newcastle away in December with Chelsea at home.
Wish I had your confidence.
Personally I think Unsworth should be given time but I never ever thought I'd say this - come January we may well be in Big Sam territory.
341 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:53:06
Nuno Espirito Santo
Take your pick!
342 Posted 02/11/2017 at 13:54:25
It depends which bookies you look at Tony.
Dyche is favourire on 6 betting sites, Allardyce is favourite on 4, and they are joint favs on 2 others.
They are the 12 biggest sites.
In other words its neck and neck.
343 Posted 02/11/2017 at 14:04:58
I think we have a quality team. I do think we are to good to go down. We have lost the way for some weeks, but things are improving. The green shoots are there.
344 Posted 02/11/2017 at 14:05:55
I think we have a quality team. I do think we are to good to go down. We have lost the way for some weeks, but things are improving. The green shoots are there.
345 Posted 02/11/2017 at 14:20:37
346 Posted 02/11/2017 at 14:59:19
347 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:12:41
Keane with Burnley 2015
Gana- Gueye with villa 2016
Pickford with the Mackems 2017
Signs of things to come? F'kin well hope not
348 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:22:17
proved slighty too hard to get a conviction (some good lawyers out there if you have the money).
If we appoint this fat c**t I will hang myself from the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey.
349 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:37:57
I believe we need a fella whose aim is not just short term. It rules out most of the garbage on the list. Perhaps Tuchel, Silva and Mancini have longer term potential but are not interested atm based on the media chatter.
I'd rather no deal than a bad deal? Heard that somewhere else too recently!
So until better candidates reveal themselves I would give it to Unsworth to hold the fort until Xmas, review then until the end of the season.
Remember one thing is for sure if we do become so crap Alladyce is required, he will come for a big fat cheque and is ego could never turn it down. So why jump the gun?
With a DoF we are going to buy the three players we need regardless so whose in charge is moot.
I think despair, panic and recoil from Koeman is clouding people's judgement that Dyche or whoever would be okay. But we are Everton we have much higher standards. You shouldn't kiss on a first date, wait and find out rather than going for the first beau you see when we are clearly on the rebound.
Have some self respect Everton!
350 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:42:56
Well if a basket case of a club like Newcastle can attract a manager who has won the Champions League, then surely we can do better than these 2.
351 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:46:13
I was inclined to agree with you on sticking with Unsworth but after the pigs ear he made of the Leicester game I'm not so sure. What Unsworth did with the starting line up was very Kiemanesque.. The performance was also very very flat.I didn't see any new management revitalisation..
Maybe giving Rhino more time might put us in deeper shit..It's a double edged sword mate.
352 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:50:35
Unfortunately I don't see many improvements recently or even green shoots no matter how hard I look.
Another morale kicking defeat in Europe tonight and a loss at home to Watford on Saturday and there wont be room for much optimism. Even if we get a win against Watford we then go to Palace followed by a trip to Southampton.
By then Unsworth may well have had time to put together something that resembles a team. I hope he has otherwise two losses against those two and we will most definitely be down amongst the sit and bullets and far from being "too good to go down".
353 Posted 02/11/2017 at 15:56:09
354 Posted 02/11/2017 at 16:01:13
That sword you talk of is sharp of than that there is no doubt.
But as a fanbase we are coming of a manager whose disposition & tactics evoked pure anger and distaste on levels unseen in my lifetime. I mean pure vitriol in some cases, myself a fully paid up member too.
We all have so much poison and bile in our minds our reaction to everything Everton is over sensitive, very raw.
Appointing a very ordinary candidate to a special job would only end in tears at this moment. Even in this nadir Everton need to be ambitious. So lets wait, let the ire ebb away and let Unsworth settle things down.
A tumultuous time for sure, but there are better candidates out there than what's available atm, we should wait.
I realise that it could be our undoing but despite Leicester I did see a way of playing, a plan, poorly executed but there. We have a little more time to rearrange the deckchairs before we hit the lifeboats.
355 Posted 02/11/2017 at 18:35:50
''If we appoint this fat c**t I will hang myself from the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey.''
There will be a good few of us hanging there .
Limp human buffers for the Mersey Ferry.
356 Posted 02/11/2017 at 21:11:13
We play them on Sunday.
357 Posted 05/11/2017 at 10:06:38
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