ToffeeHouse Chatroom - Week 4

Chelsea are today allegedly considering terminating Ross Barkley's contract - at 𧶀k per week reportedly (!), they/he having financially screwed us when they signed him from us.

They more than want rid of him, immediately, therefore.

Next to the massively successful Man Utd legend, who always wore Everton PJs allegedly - but presumably not when he was regularly being sucked off by some such everyday floozie forever in his CV, "our" Ross is by far the most successful product of the less-than-fabled Finch Farm youth system, headed for years by totally acquiescent to Blue Bill yes-men ex-players.

Aged 28 he's now an official write-off in the real world our Bill is unaware of.

Does anyone else want to speculate why anyone at Everton thought the bloke was ever a player? I mean, when he was a mere boy an Everton ex-player said, as I did and do, that he's in no way a professional footballer.

Why is he therefore a multi-millionaire on the back of fuck-all achievement, for anyone? 

Zero points from the next 2 games (likely) and we'll probably be bottom, my it's depressing.

Kevin, stop being such a doom-monger – we are unbeaten in three on a mighty 2 points. Haha.

In all serioussness, next 3 games Kevin, probably even next 4 if Moyes does his usual number on us.

Kunal, trying to take positives and yet we are all hanging our hopes on Maupay to do something he's never achieved yet (as far as I know) and score 20 goals in a season.

The tactics seem to be the same from manager to manager since Martinez. No trust in young players (apart from the odd one) and playing the same underachieving ones every week in a negative formation.

Almost makes you wonder if Kenwrights been picking the tactics for the last 10 years.

Kevin, you make a good point, can't be all the half-a-dozen-odd managers' fault, common theme is that Kenwright is still here stinking out the place when he should have been booted up the ass and out of the club as far away as possible years ago.

That slimeball has his hands on everything.

The really worrying thing for me is that Lampard actually seems to think we are playing well. It won't be long before we start getting the countdown on how many games we've got left to play.

As usual, we appear to have no real game plan, we'd better hope that Maupay settles in instantly and scores goals.

ps: here's a clue: the club is run, and has been run for decades, by greedy, self-absorbed fucking idiots.

I've just been reading what Derby County fans think of Lampard as a manager, interestingly loads think he was and still is naive tactically and all his non-loan signings were not very good.

Played some good football at times but poor managing games a lot of the time.
Good bull shitter with fans though!

The pressure is on already, in my opinion.

Oliver, that's him to a tee

The whole point of management in any field is to get the best you can out of the resources available. The whole point of bad management is to have a system that you would like to have, but do not have the resources that can make that system work and still persist with an inappropriate system.

We seem to have a belief that we appoint managers who do not appraise what the resources we have available are capable of doing. Instead, they go with the system that may have worked for them in the past when they had different resources.

I call that insanity on the part of the managers, but more importantly it is insanity on the part of the Board who keep appointing such men as managers.

Rick

I get what you're saying, but at the same time any manager in any situation still has to have something to work with. Some ability, some talent.

We've been left with a bunch of misfits. Possibly the worst misuse of finances in football history. I personally feel we're lucky to have Lampard. We have to give him time.

Oliver & Pat,

Is this the same Lampard who as Derby boss, beat Leeds 4-2 in the playoffs at Elland Road before losing to Villa at Wembley? The same fans who were gutted when he left for Chelsea?

Yes Christy, it's the same guy who so far has 2 points from 12, soon to be 2 from 18, with his club in the relegation zone and no clue how to set up a team or manage a game.

Kieran

Sorry, Mate, it is my old age I guess. My sense of humour is not as sharp as it once was!

Pat,

Writing us off completely for the next 2 games, do you not give him any credit for keeping us in the Premie League last season, when we were 5 pts from safety, beating Man Utd and Chelsea?

Townsend even said the players' confidence was completely shot before he replaced Benitez?

Don,

How would you measure success in your given profession?

Moan, moan, moan. I'll tune in tomorrow to read more moans. I might just give ToffeeWeb a miss for a fortnight. In fact, no, I am deffo going to give it a miss. Too depressing for on here for words. Before I go. Support Frank, he's our manager and cares about our team and its supporters

So Pat Kelly, should we just sack him and start the cycle once again? And who would you get in that plays to YOUR preferred system?

Or should we get behind Lampard and try to back what he is trying to do?

Massive improvements in Iwobi and Holgate, Davis too, decent defenders signed in Coady and Tarkowski, a box to box midfielder on board in Onana, a nasty wasp in Maupay brought in up front, at least give it a few games before wringing your hands.

I think Lampard knows a lot more about football and putting together a squad than you or I.

It's 4 games into a long season, give him a chance, he's not perfect and I agree he's made mistakes, but we cannot keep changing the manager twice a year.

Christy,

Yes, that's him - what do you think of his tactics and game management?

Bernie,

No worries, mate.

Don #2

"Chelsea are today allegedly considering terminating Ross Barkley's contract - at 𧶀k per week reportedly (!), they/he having financially screwed us when they signed him from us."

You mean Ross?

"...when he was a mere boy an Everton ex-player said, as I did and do, that he's in no way a professional footballer."

You mean Ross?

So were we screwed or did we screw them by selling a "no-way-a professional-footballer"?

Oliver,

Would definitely prefer a 4-3-3, hopefully a couple of players in before Thursday and he'll change the formation.

Listening to his press conference on Friday, he's disgusted that the powers that be didn't bring in a striker weeks ago, so maybe it's not all his fault.

Deborah (#16),

Hii there. I would expect a 28-year-old professional footballer in the best-paid league in the world to work his ass off to get in the team he signed for. Barkley has never done that IMO and is now never likely to. He's deadwood to Chelsea but doing very nicely thank you on account of his exorbitant salary,

Sound familiar, because it should, given the gross ineptitude of those still allegedly running our club for the past 30 years, the most recent six seasons having plunged to new depths?

Purging Finch Farm of the "comfortable" Kenwright appointees is admittedly way less than we need in order to have a hope of professionalism and even success invading the club whilst the top brass remain in place, but it's a start.

"Success in your chosen profession" can never be achieved with the consistently shambolic deterioration of our club such as we still endure.

I never bet against Everton and very rarely back them to win. Yesterday I put them in a treble with Reading and Burnley.

It's not easy being a Blue but even tougher when you get double heartache!!

Brent,

Barkley screwed us vis-a-vis his last season when he did next to nothing, as ever for us, knowingly lessening his transfer value in the process and thereby persuading some bozo at Chelsea to give him a dream contract. He cost us £millions,

The fact that he's now screwed Chelsea as well says it all about his lack of professional character. In short, he's a very wealthy knob.

I read somewhere, a couple of days ago, that there is a whisper that Bill Kenwright has been nominated for a Knighthood in the New Year's Honours List - for his Services to the Theatre and to Football. Can anyone confirm this whisper??

Okay, he lost Calvert-Lewin and hasn't really had him totally fit, or so we are to believe, I will give you that, but he has made some bad calls since he got the job.

I keep going back to the Burnley game when he clearly fucked up and lost us the game – for me, that was a big red flag.

He is too slow with his subs and it seems only reacts due to injury or when it is too late.

I have said all along –I hope he does the business, but I'm beginning to worry.
But you are right, if we get quality players in this could be the difference.

Spending 㿀 million on McNeil is alarming. Was this Lampard, I just don't rate him – do you?

He has a connection with most of the fanbase and knows how to score points there... but I'm more interested in scoring points on the pitch.

I hope we can avoid defeat away to Leeds on Tuesday, just as a boost for the derby!

The biggest red flag, Oliver? We were on the beach against Arsenal after the Palace game.

Can you imagine a Moyes side taking the same approach?

Don@20

What I was alluding to was perceived success, I retired at 57 with financial security for life which I considered success. Ross has financial security beyond most peoples wildest dreams which he might regard as success, it's all relative.

Kenwright on the other hand is an absolutely useless football chairman but a very successful impresario. He won't go hungry.

Bernie,

If that's true I'm giving up my RHS membership and will never vote Tory... ever.

Listen, I never fought in the Falklands or the Gulf War, I admit, but that is outrageous.

7-0 Danny last game of the season 2005

Oliver,

I can't disagree regarding the Burnley game, was gutted myself, but the panic and defensive mistakes were abysmal, but to beat Chelsea and Utd after that was huge.

I still think McNeill will come good, last summer he was valued at 㿏m, and Dyche couldn't speak highly enough about him.

“Visiting manager David Moyes, who had asked his team to enjoy the occasion after securing 4th place in the Premier League, ordered them to go and apologise to their travelling fans at the end.”

Only 4 games in and I am not surprised we are in the bottom three.

Not that we have played badly as the defence has only conceded 5 goals but like everyone else the threat up front has been minimal in the absence of a real target man.

Without goals you cannot win games and the odd draw here and there will keep you struggling points wise.

Okay we are all hoping that the new ''striker'' and the imminent return of Calvert-Lewin will see a change very soon as I do believe that there is a big improvement in the middle of the park with the form of Iwobi and the work of Onana looking very promising.

It remains to be seen if any of the others, Davies, McNeil, Doucoure, Gomes, Allan, Gray and Townsend will be real factors down the line and of course Rondon we all know will probably be gone soon enough.

We are 3 points Liverpool, for what it's worth at the moment, but we play them soon enough an,d despite their ''freak'' scoreline yesterday against a surefire relegation team, we do have a shot at getting something from that game.

I for one am feeling much more optimistic.

Jeff @ 25,

The whisper also said that, once the numpty received his knighthood, he would quietly retire from public life. That last little bit of info tells me it is all fiction, as Bill would want to be Chairman for the opening of the new stadium.

I wish I could recall where I read this whisper. Like you, it has been bugging me ever since!

Danny. Under Moyes, Arsenal was our regular day at the beach and Tony Adams could even enjoy a good night out on the piss knowing it was only us the next day.

I must admit I was pretty shocked how they performed in that game against Arsenal despite the fact that we had secured our survival the previous game.

We play them again soon with a lot of changes in our team and I would expect a much better performance from us. If it goes the same way as the last game, however,then I can see the calls for Lampard's head being loud and clear.

In the meantime, we have two massive games with our battle against Leeds looking like the only chance of more points. Lampard has to get his new team up to speed and organized.

We haven't signed any top players, which is not Frank's fault, but we have to be a lot better than we were against Brentford or we're gonna be bottom and managerless by Christmas.

I am a big fan of Frank Lampard and he needs time so the calls for his head are well premature; however; our owner will no doubt get shut to cover his own backside once he hears the crowd getting restless.

If only the owner could get rid of his sidekick for the same reasons!

Tbh Bernie that's more than a whisper,

Gets a knighthood, then retires from public life? That's a come and get me, I'm available,

A rumour started by none other than

Wait for it,

It's Rebecca Var...

Jenny Seagrove.

Pete Clarke - What an ugly, ignorant and flippant thing to say about Tony Adams. He has been sober since 1996, and has been one of the leading campaigners against addiction since he founded the charity Sporting Chance in 2000. He has made a lot of mistakes in his life, but he's a great man and was a terrific footballer.

Lol Jeff and Bernie, if it guarantees he goes then it would be worth seeing him knighted!
Although I'm not keen on having so many defenders on the pitch we are occasionally playing some decent footy which gives me hope - I know we're all praying that having a proper cf in the team will change the dynamic of the team and it likely will.

Brentford have beat a lot of decent sides in the last 12 months (and to be fair deserved to beat us with the chances spurned) so a point there is not bad at all everything considered.

The fans have been amazing for a long time now and you who are able to attend are still our best hope and inspiration! I can only get to a few games a season as tickets are rare as rocking horse shit and am always envious.

I live down the road from Brentford and know plenty of their fans - a couple said that the game at Goodson last season was the most electrifying atmosphere they had ever experienced and they have been going to games for 60 years +.

It made me think of the ‘80s when my dad started taking me when I was a kid and the stadium had a life of its own. I'm fortunate to be just old enough to have Big Nev as my hero and see us be one of the best teams in the world, albeit too young to fully appreciate it. My dad was in the army (1Kings) and I was always proud to be an Evertonian everywhere we lived - and always will be proud to be a Blue.

Big thanks to Danny O'Neill and others here that turn my negativity into positive cosmic vibes, would love a beer with you all.

COYB!! 3-1 to us against Leeds

Andrew. I was having a go at Moyes but you may have missed that in your obvious campaign to weed out anybody who says something slightly wrong as is the way of the world right now.

I grew up in a pub so I know what piss heads are and it was just a way of life. Very few of the people I know or knew would have had a chance to have founded any organization to help the way Tony Adams did but he had the fame which helped him do that.

Great football player and leader, I agree, but ease off with the righteousness.

Rob @ 29 - When I was in The Irish Guards back in the late 1950s, a friend of mine was L/Sgt George Hooton from Liverpool (an Evertonian) I don't suppose he was a distant relative of yours?

Like I said before, this knighthood business was only a couple of lines I read, which I hope is not true; but if it meant he retired as Chairman ---- WELL ! ---- Best Wishes.

A knighthood for services to what. Maybe for dismantling a once great set up. Hope the sword doesn't slip

Stephen, I can't help it too, hoping the expected bottom few clubs keep losing. It's understandable after last season's trauma.

I'm much more positive than last season though. There are some signs we are playing better, even without the situation of not having a striker. (Rondon doesn't count). DCL back, Maupay, Gana, Broja, we will have the necessary firepower to score some goals and win games. Gana, Garner is going to improve us too. At least one will come in.

Onana is another massive plus. Twenty years old so we are going to have to put up with some mistakes. But he looks to me like an elite player in the making.

A poster used the phrase “dig in” and that's what us fans will have to do just now . Dig in, and things are going to get better.

Caveat, depending that the essential transfer business gets done over the next three days.

It wasn't a knighthood, Bernie, it was a nightmare...

But this is what happens when you've constantly got Everton on the brain.

I know it's a little early for statistics, but at 1 point every 2 games, would leave us with 19 points at the end of the season.

What is really concerning are the errors from last season have not been addressed – and this is down to Lampard. Weren't we the worst team in the Premier League last season for conceding goals from set pieces, or was it getting caught in possession when trying to play the ball out of defense? We are guilty of both.

The zonal marking does not work – and neither do defenders standing there like statues watching the play develop.

Pickford repeats his mistakes each season: palming the ball away, but always in front of him – setting up opposition forwards with an easy tap-in. Gone are the days when goalkeepers actually caught the ball! He probably costs us 12 points a season with these mistakes.

Oh yes, we can defend him and say: "but he makes some great saves" – he's supposed to! He's a frigging goalkeeper.

Brentford hit the woodwork 3 times – we were fortunate to get away with a point.
We are now in the bottom 3, and I really cannot see us getting out of it.

Leeds Utd (a), Liverpool (h) & Arsenal (a) are next. Where do our points come from? Maybe a point at Leeds? Bottom 3 is our home for the rest of the season, and we'll have to get used to it.

Lewandowski's second goal for Barcelona yesterday against Valladolid is worth a look. What a fabulous player he is. Xavi looks like he's doing a proper job there now.

Danny Baily #25 - end of season hammering by Arsenal something that Moyes would never allow?!?

Either you are a new fan or have a bad memory. 2005 they absolutely spanked us 7-0 at their place, and that was the year we got fourth place. So yes, even a Moyes team were on the beach for the last game of the season when there was nothing to play for.

It's ok to beat Lampard with certain sticks; delayed subs, tactically naïve etc. But let's not pretend that, in dead rubber matches, a lot of the “great” managers haven't struggled to motivate players:

Arsenal 7-0 Everton

Agreed Tony Hill. Amazing player.

Him, Kane and Haaland are unique in their ability to always find the net. What I want to know is: Where's the next up-and-coming striker like Lewandowski?!?

Andrew,

We need a proper worldwide scouting network for that. Obviously we haven't had for a long time. We could and should own at least one other club, like Man City and a few more have done.

Brian...

Was it not in the days of the much-maligned Peter Johnson that we established a link with Home Farm in Dublin to give us the edge in recruiting young Irish talent?

Whatever happened to that, I wonder?

What a way to start the week, in the Bottom 3, no resolution to the Gordon saga, away to Leeds tomorrow and we 'welcome' our neighbours on Saturday, who have just scored a confidence-boosting 9 goals in one match, would you believe!!!

So what should Frank do, stick or twist? I don't think anybody writing on these pages thinks the 5 at the back is working. If we continue to play so deep in our own half, Liverpool will simply flood our penalty box with their players.

One change is certain as Holgate will be missing so that's one formation potential change to consider. Also, Liverpool are so strong on both wings with both wide players brilliantly supported by their full-backs.

So plenty to look forward to, a fair bit of anxiety no doubt, but let's hope. Not the absolute despair which follows when you are beaten and haven't put in a performance which has tested the opposition and given us a chance of success.

This week our inexperienced manager and our evolving team need to be at their very best to give us any chance at all. Hope springs eternal.

Andrew # 38.

Another last game of the season hammering under Moyes was season 2003 / 04. We played Man City away, knowing we were safe from relegation (again!!) and got beat 5-1.

It was Rooney's last game for us before his move to Man Utd. We finished that season in 17th position.

Andrew,

Lampard might know a lot more than most of us Everton fans; with that in mind, I hope he starts improving us with that football knowledge.

It's very early days at Everton for Frank but, the more I see Frank's tactics and selections plus substitutions, the more I doubt his ability as a manager.

I've been asking for patience to see how we finish our transfer dealings and let Frank get some more players in and see how we do then. So I haven't given up on Frank but I already know, and can name plenty, that great players don't always make great managers. Frank and Steven Gerard are already making the doubters have a good look at them.

Two in midfield Frank? Have a good long look at that mate, could be your Achilles Heel.

Keep those thoughts positive, Rob @31.

I served alongside the Kings and played football against them a few times in Cyprus in the '90s. Let's say they were an entertaining bunch and full of character!! As good (if not better) at Boxing as they were at Football.

Brentford Manager, Thomas Frank, who I rate highly, on Twitter yesterday: "Credit to Everton's supporters and those of you in the away end that afternoon, for creating one of the best atmospheres I have ever experienced."

My brother was also talking to a friend who has followed Brentford all the way on their journey from the lower leagues. She can't get Spirit of the Blues out of her head!!

Something happened last season. The most important asset the club has, the supporters, fell back in love with their first love. And when that happens, anything is possible.

Don't look at the league table right now, it's irrelevant. What we are seeing is improvement in performance on the pitch. Still work to do, but we have been involved in 4 close matches. Not getting smashed. No collapses, no fragility if we lose a goal. More resilience, better attitude and a different character.

The best judges in the world will make that call. And they do when they can see it. Just as they done on Saturday despite dropping 2 points to a late goal. The points are coming.

Don't start me on end-of-season hammerings by Arsenal. The poor man who fell asleep and got caught on national TV as they waltzed past us at Highbury, making Tony Adams look like a marauding midfielder as they trounced us. The 7 - 0 humiliation. Both on someone's watch.

I stood and watched last season's customary Emirates / Arsenal tonking (I was also at the Allardyce one, right behind the dugout ,courtesy of a friend). That's not Lampard or Moyes or even Allardyce. That's just Everton playing on their Native American burial ground that is Arsenal's stadium. But we will break that voodoo curse in a couple of weeks and I'll hopefully be there to see it.

I have to comment on Barkley. For the sake of consistency of opinion, I still maintain that I don't think he was coached correctly as a youngster to iron out his faults. I think because he was bigger, more powerful, quicker and better than most at a young age, winning matches for gloating coaches, they left him to his own devices. That's a hunch and suspicion rather than knowledge.

Let's see where this week takes us. A victory at Leeds and more business in the transfer market to set us up to face Lucifer's children with confidence and belief. Gordon and Coady will be up for it. Onana to frighten the shit out of and dominate Henderson. Maupay to wind the shit out of St Virgil of Anfield. I might currently be thousands of miles away, but I can't wait.

Brian,

I watched Nantes v Toulouse yesterday. Decent game.

If I was running a scouting op at EFC I would have stats (sprints, yards covered, tackles etc) on every single player in every league from youth level up, and I would be screening them constantly for the necessities of the club, ie, picking out those players that would fit into a system that works.

Personality is a softer measure and hard to screen for. I'm sure other clubs are doing this with teams of analysts. Brentford played us off the park with a team that cost ca 㿞M. Speaks volumes

Nick.

Unlike some on here who yearn for the proverbial "glass ceiling" fella, I had no time for Moyes but I'll admit the character of a player was assessed before he signed. That's why he walked away from Bellend Bellamy.

As for your eye of needle professionalism, we seem to shy away from that unless I've been in a coma a long time. Anyway, up the Toffs.

Pete

We do need to give him time. We are all frustrated. Like Frank has said, we won't know how the rest of the season will pan out like until this ridiculous window deadline closes. Then we will know what squad we have to work with.

I do think it would be unfair to start calling for his head, just look at the injuries we've had already 3 games in.

Calvert-Lewin, Godfrey, Mina, Allan... now Holgate. All of them would've played some part In the last games.

People start calling for the manager to go – where the fuck would that leave us?
It would be ridiculous! We need patience, people thinking it's all going to get fixed in one window is just pie in the sky.

Best we can hope for this season is progress, a decent core team of young players that we can develop for next 2-3 years, an improvement in our style of play from last season.

That's not me supporting "plucky little Everton" as I'm sure some will say, it's being realistic. It's taking a long-term veiw which – where we finished last season – is our only option.

It's time to hold our nerve; we've seen what happens if we keep changing the manager. I think we will be more than safe this season, but it's about progress.

We can already see this team has miles more potential than what we had last season. The way Frank has transformed Iwobi and brought Gordon on gives me confidence that he can develop this squad.

Nick. All 20 teams have a threat, including the manager and his influence, especially in game management. Fine margins, eh. Let's hope Maupay proves the difference.

Brian 85, I know Moyes tried to get the ‘right' player from a mindset perspective but he did also sign Shandy Andy and Drenthe….just saying. Mental side obviously harder to analyse…

Interesting the number who absolutely don't want Gordon sold. He may become better in the future but all players leave some day and May doesn't necessarily mean Will. Rodwell, Barkley, Vaughan to name a few. Ultimately if 㿨M is on the table (or 㿅M plus a striker we desperately need, and a very good midfielder we definitely need), I'm not really sure how we can turn it down personally. New players will take time to gel but it would make the squad much better balanced.

But I guess this site's about opinions and always good to hear other people's thoughts. We'll see where we end up Thursday but I hope that our transfer business isn't done.

As it stands we haven't done enough.

We've signed a few good centre halves so credit where it's due.

We've hopefully added a energetic powerful midfielder in Onana.

But we have failed to address the lack of goals.

Maupay will have to be first choice most of this season because if the last 12 months is anything to go by then Calvert-Lewin will be missing with injuries more often than not.

David.

Besides the emotional fans on the Live Forum, no-one is saying Sack the Manager.

Although we all care for and love this club until our mortal coil decides otherwise. Might be painful but we have to grow with Frank as an institution as he does as a manager, for a new Everton because, his mentality is he's a winner.'

Almost forgot...

11. Trust in the youngsters, give them game time in league matches.
12. Improve team morale and discipline too (as the first derby of the season is looming).

Denis.

I can't add to any of that. We all meander but ultimately we want the same thing. A professional club not stuck in the '60s .

Brian. I agree. But some expect miracles in what, 8 months from a team that was Into total disarray last season. No manager was going to turn it around so quick.

Seen a couple of Lampard Out posts over the weekend and imo there is no need. You know how it goes, one or two say something and others follow, and before you know it, Frank's under unnecessary pressure.

This isn't a team of 㿞M players he's bought or it would be a different story.

If the window was closed before the season started, I think we would've had a sqaud settled by now and not this joke of clubs all waiting till the last minute, 6 games into the season.

10 to 12 games in, we will have a better idea of what this squad will perform like.

There are some very good people who deserve knighthoods and Queens birthday honours. However so many get them for services to their own particular industry which could mean good things or nothing as much as being in it for many years getting well paid for it and nothing else.

The whole concept should now be scrapped along with the Oscars (now a slapping event) Grammies and other award ''shows'' as they just have little or no real credibility anymore.

As an example, the Grammies, usually awarded to outstanding musical talent now recognizes all kinds of junk.

Kalajdzic 㾻.3M to Wolves. I'd have had a punt on him 100% at that price.

Forest signing Boly, Aurier and another fullback, Lodi from A Madrid. Wow!

Chelsea get Fofana and they've spent 𧷁m. Man Utd spending another 䀁M…. now spent over 𧶀M. Unbelievable!

Everton Football Club – still haven't replaced Lukaku. Well done, Bill.

I'm not one for blaming Lampard because it is a deep-rooted problem at Everton that only a long-term plan can sort out.

Frank's young, intelligent, and if his playing career is anything to judge him by, then we have a winner. Tactically he may be struggling a bit but I go back to his intelligence and hope he works that out. Impossible to say "judge him on the whole" because experience is massive in any profession and he's definitely learning the hard way.

Maybe the subject of another thread but how many managers have we let go that some on here think we should have kept? I'll go for Joe Royle even though he left on mutual terms. Absolutely loved Big Joe.

On the other hand, I was one of the many supporters who were calling for change in Kendall's first spell so what do I know? – except to say let's give Lampard some space to work with this newly assembled team.

Pete,

To your point, I would say Mike Walker is probably the only manager in recent decades that doesn't have some advocates popping up on here saying he should have been given more time. Even Rafa and Koeman have a few supporters.

Then we get all these "Frank is stubborn with 5 at the back," even though he tried 4 originally. People said Silva was stubborn with zonal, but zonal worked with other managers. People said Martinez was stubborn with slow passing, Moyes too negative and only ever subbed on Hibbert to hold a lead, Carlo was too stubborn to attack.

And all of these were reasons to sack these managers who've all done better elsewhere than they did here, thus causing people to say "We should have kept them."

If you think about Mike Walker, he has a similar trajectory to Frank in terms of joining in January, narrowly avoiding relegation, then having a poor start the next season.

But the difference between the men is two-fold. Firstly Walker spent a fortune that summer, whereas Frank saw his players sold. Secondly, the players were in revolt at Mike's poor training, sunbed, and MW parking spot whereas the players seem to be behind Frank.

So I think it's ridiculous to revert to type and say "Let's sack Frank" after 8 months.

Bernie,

I may be to blame for that. I did refer to him on here as "Sir William" at one point over the weekend and if you read my post that trauma could have been stored in your subconscious only to come out as a bad dream later on.

Imagine though, if the Echo and everyone had to start referring to him as Sir William… I think that would push a lot of people on here over the edge!!!

At one of them '60s parties at the weekend and one of the songs played reminded me of Everton. It was Elvis singing its Now Or Never.

I thought with just 4 days to go Everton have to make a move for a striker but hope they don't have to sell Gordon to do it. I still think we need a defensive midfielder as that is where the opposition get control as we have no one to break up their attacks up.

Onana is going to be a good signing when fully fit with the speed of the premier as he does things simply, and knows were he is going to pass before the ball reaches him.

My preference in what is left of the window depends on what we can afford and as I think they are going to rely on the fitness of Calvert-Lewin the logical signing would be a scoring winger that can play as a striker if needed, same as Richarlison.

People are going on about Brentford hitting the woodwork but Everton wasted 2 good opportunities 1 when Myalenko tried to beat the keeper with Gordon open and a open goal, and Gray who as soon as he started his run with just the keeper ahead of him I thought goal.

We have been beaten by the odd goal so it is not exactly like we are wide open, and have had opportunities and not taken them, and that is the major problem converting opportunities. We need a scorer whether it's from the wing or central.

Sean,

I would have to agree. I think after people got so worked up over Rafa everyone is enjoying the idea of being able to get behind someone who is clearly a nice chap. The last thing anyone wants to do is contemplate the thought of another upheaval and betting on AN Other.

Sad though it is to say, I'm unimpressed with Frank's tenure here. It doesn't matter what I think though, we are coming to the crunch regardless. If he's still here after the West Ham game, I will be pleasantly surprised, cos it will mean we are not marooned at the bottom of the league.

In the cold light of day though, we've made a terrible start to the season. We could not have had easier fixtures save for Chelsea, and have two points on the board. We were also lucky to get those two points against utterly mediocre opposition.

When we almost got a fluke equaliser against a fucking dreadful villa side, Andy Hunter said it would have been a grand heist if it had gone in.

Although we are playing a back five, there are still gaps everywhere, and we fundamentally are not hurting teams with our passing. we must be the easiest team in the league to play against.

I sense though this cloud of goodwill is set to evaporate at the weekend.

Barkley just terminated contract at Chelsea by mutual consent. I still think he will come back, or possibly Old Firm.

Hi all, I feel sure that some of the 'ToffeeWeb experts' on all things football related, can help me, I'm toying with the idea of forming a team and naming it 'Should've United'.

I used to manage a Sunday League team and, in the pub following a heavy defeat, we would move glasses and ashtrays to demonstrate what we 'should've' done, and the following week we would take to the pitch and do exactly what we were good at, namely doing everything other than what we 'Should've'.

I'm sure that those ToffeeWebers who are good at the art of 'Should've', will give me some advice, I suppose I 'should've' asked for it earlier, but better late than never.

Ian

How embarrassing is that? It's not like they sacked him, they paid him off so he would leave. They'd rather have an empty locker than have him hanging around the place.

The same exact thing that happened with Jack Rodwell at Sunderland. I wouldn't bring him back any more than I'd bring back Rodwell.

He's best advised getting a layman's job and using his football skills down at the park with his mates at the weekend.

Happy new week.

The best part of this upcoming week is the whole Anthony Gordon transfer saga will be over – as well as all the other transfer rumors about Gueye, this dude, that dude, etc.

I'm so over all this. At 㿨 million, we'll never get a better offer. A deal should have been struck giving us time to use the money wisely. Instead, there's very little time to utilize any sale proceeds, and I smell a "late in the window, we didn't have time to re-invest" bullshit line.

We'll see. I just want the whole thing over with.

Tony #37, I never doubted Xavi would be a superb manager. The guy is pure leader. He had a rough first few months, but now he is getting a real symphony out of his club.

Danny #43 and David #44, two of the best posts I've seen. Guinness for both of ya.

Jamie #61, Frank himself said no 㿨 million offer came in. Seems the two in the 40's were all we got, and I'm okay with us passing on those.

And I still say we'll get another attacker this week, probably a loan right at the deadline.

Pete

There's no campaign or bigger picture, I just didn't think your comment was very charitable, so I said so. Hopefully you can understand why I said what I did, even if you didn't necessarily agree with it. I'm not trying to silence you, I'm just pointing out that I didn't really appreciate your take.

What is this with Barkley does this mean a free transfer with just the players contract to agree on. I don't like the way he left Everton but beggars cant be choosers and who knows Lampard may be able to improve him like he improved Iwobi. Tin Hat Time

Bill 67. I agree with you. I know he left a lot of baggage, but he was a good player. Any discount on tin hats...

Andrew. Not a problem mate.

As I said, I was having a pop at Moyes record of big defeats when that memory of Tony Adams smashing in his goal just came to mind. If I was having a go at pissheads then I'd be criticizing half the world and a few of my close mates but there's nothing in particularly special with Adams situation except that he started the awareness fund. Good on him.

What I don't like is the modern world we live in where you can't make comment or express an opinion anymore without being lambasted by somebody. It's just gone too far for my liking.

I can't stand the sight of Bill Kenwright for what he's done to this club of ours and I must admit my thoughts on that man cannot be expressed openly so I keep them to myself. In saying that I can't wait until he fucks off.

For anybody that thinks being a football manager is easy try reading into Guardiola or Klopp go on about injuries and look at Tuchel at Chelsea seemingly desperate to strengthen. These all have really top draw players just sitting on the bench and yet they are not happy. Admittedly they are pushing to win titles whereas we are trying to stave off relegation but it makes you sick because these so called top class managers wouldn't know what to do with the squad Frank Lampards had forced on him.
We are a basket case of a club and it's gonna take a revolution of type to fix this mess. Another managerial change is going to destroy us completely so I'm backing Lampard all the way even though I detest the football we are currently playing. It has to get better and it will get better. I'm convinced of that.
I watch Wolves, Brighton and Brentford pass the ball around quickly and I envy it but still get the feeling no matter who is in charge of us will never hit the ground running because of some deep rooted malaise at Finch Farm and dealing with the idiots.
Beating Leeds this week will get us going. COYB

After a particularly vindictive and poorly informed OP. This thread has recovered and thrown up some very good points.

Danny

Thanks for putting up Thomas Frank's quote. He isn't alone in his thoughts. Our support was the talk of the Brentford fan base afterwards.

Jamie Crowley

I hear you brother. I'm not sure the 60m offer actually materialised, but this transfer window has been slower than a life stretch in Walton. I'm in the opposite camp to you. I want AG to stay, but enough already of this transfer window speculation.

Jamie at 65,

Disagree, that Gordon should have been sold for the reported 㿨 million.
If we lose him this window, we lose a lot of energy and a big threat that our opponents will worry about.

The money is crazy and I personally do not think he is worth it right now which is why I was torn when the news first broke, but the more I think about it, I think it would be totally irresponsible of the club to sell him in this window anyway.

If Chelsea are prepared to offer this sort of money now, what will Gordon be worth if he has a season all Evertonians are hoping for.

There is lot I don't like about Lampard, but I think he is good with young players and will only make Gordon better.

If he scores 10 plus goals this season and starts adding assists to his work rate we will have some player on our books and worth much more.

Another topic, imagine if Fofana fails his medical, he will have fucked up big time!

Now that it seems we cover everything in this thread, here we go...

My wish list for signings on deadline day:

Rob.

I agree people on this site see us as some top Premier League club. The reality is we are no bigger than West Ham or Brighton.

I've seen us in the '80s winning trophies. But we simply are now a nothing club plodding along and doing very little.

Paul Hewitt, "a nothing club plodding along doing very little" bang out of order.

That statemen is the biggest condemnation of Bill Kenwright a supporter could make. The biggest reason why he needs to go.

Bill Kenwright is a plague on the club that needs to be eradicated.

However, whether he is removed or not, we do need to accept that to outsiders, we are not a high-end concern, and at this point, we can't offer European football, or even inflated wages, such has been the club's profligacy.

Christine. Even from quite a distance you hit home our diagnose. Bang on.

Frank's football was always going to be more watchable football, even had Everton been relegated, but I didn't expect a walk-through midfield. Having been a midfielder himself, and one of the best, I find it difficult to understand this.

Tony Woodcock (Nottingham Forest) said that the best way for a team to play was to defend and attack as a unit. I did expect him to emerge as a top manager after his playing career. Still waiting 40 years later. Frank follows a similar philosophy.

Christine @139. We both might think Everton are the greatest club going. But in football reality, we are what I said sadly.

Paul, I have to disagree, for one they aren't the greatest club going, no matter how much I love them, but more importantly, they are a great football club that has been dreadfully managed.

The reality is we have an owner who wants to deliver but hasn't got a clue, a chairman who thinks he is God's gift to football as it was in 1960. He should have stayed there.

As it stands, we are a team in recovery from gross incompetence. A club that is crying out for good management. But never, ever, a nothing club.

I got a horrible text the day before the Chelsea game. It was from a Liverpudlian, telling me it was about time we got relegated, and then asking me what do Everton genuinely offer the Premier League?

My first thought was you horrible bastard, my second thought was, I hope your horrible bitterness backfires, and you've hopefully jumped the gun, and my third thought was, I've been asking myself that same question for years.

I already knew that the only thing good that Everton could genuinely offer the Premier League was our brilliant supporters, so I obviously sent him the video the following week of those fantastic Evertonians celebrating at Leicester with about 100 smiley faces.

After then thinking I'd jumped the gun, his text a few days after the Palace game was absolutely brilliant: "You think you're the best supporters in the world" he wrote – and they actually wonder why we call them gobshites!

Everton have become a nothing club under Kenwright, and it's why I post so much (to a boring degree) about the man. But what should I do? Walk away, (I've been feeling like doing this recently) or just keep being boring?

I always used to “joke” that if I had an incurable illness, I'd go and blow myself up in the kop, but sometimes I think if It wasn't for my family, I'd find a way to eliminate Bill Kenwright, such is the damage he's done to one of my loved ones, namely Everton FC.

Tony,

I wish I could be as certain as you are that if Kenwright leaves the club will miraculously improve. While I agree Kenwright should have stepped down when Moyes left, the main reason he is still chairman is because that suited Moshiri/ Usmanov. As Moshiri has stated he didnt want owning Everton to take up more than 5% of his time, also I don't think Kenwright would have ever appointed Benitez and probably not Allardyce either.

Moshiri sacked Martinez and employed Koeman who had done nothing as a manager yet Moshiri entrusted an unexperienced manager to spend hundreds of millions. Then when he realized that appointing Koeman was the wrong choice he then appointed Marco Silva another manager with very little experience. Now after 6 years of 6 managers and 3 DOFs we have got ourselves in a position where because of our financial as wel as football mis management we now have to watch every penny we spend. Now you can lay some of that at Kenwrights door, but Moshiri is an accountant if totally useless at picking managers you would hope he would be competent in managing our finances.

So yes Kenwright needs to leave asap but for me our biggest problem is our current owner, who now Usmanov cant help bankroll the club is actively looking for investors, good luck with that. Why would anybody invest in a club that is cash strapped because of FFP and finance the club while not having overall control.

I see after Bournemouth's mauling at the weekend they have sacked Scott Parker.

4 games into a new season and sacked – talk about pressing the panic button.

Also erase that latin from the badge because we don't even try to adhere to it.

Brian (92),

Yes it seems to be a very hard decision to sack Scott Parker after four games Brian, particularly after three games versus Arsenal, Man.City and Liverpool although they did beat Aston Villa whom we lost to, so Bournemouth sacked their manager who gained his club three points from a club we lost to while Scott Parker was bemoaning the fact that Bournemouth wouldn't heed his pleas that the club needed to do more in the transfer market.

I wonder if that rings any bells with everyone running the club at Everton including the manager and his coaching staff with the relevant easy start to the season and only two points in the bag.

Dave 94

The press are saying that he was sacked because he was deemed as having criticized the new owner over the lack of signings. He only took over Bournemouth in May.

As you rightly point out they have more points than us and having a much tougher start to the season.

I shudder to think where we would be with playing Arsenal, the RS and City at the start, would any manager survive a 9-0 drubbing in this league?

I think Bournemouth will drop this season, Leicester might join them, but I hope Villa do if they don't sack Slimy G first!

Hopefully tonight we will play Maupay and pick up a win!

The image of Parker like a little boy lost, with Klopp's patronising arm around him on Saturday, is embarrassing.

If Klopp tried to patronise Conte, or any self-respecting manager the same way, he'd get a deserved broken nose.

Christine 96,

You ask would any manager survive a 9-0 drubbing when last season Southampton were beaten 9-0 yet they kept their manager and they finished comfortably ahead of us in the league.

Brian (98),

Yes I read that and although it made sense in that the owner didn't want to pile debt on the club but keep it running in a sensible business wise way it certainly didn't help Scott Parker on the football side of the club.

Tony (100),

I noticed the way Klopp was patronising Parker on Saturday, it reminded me of when Floyd Patterson had knocked Henry Cooper out and at the end of the count Floyd went over to help Cooper up off the floor and Henry knocked his arm out of the way as if to say “Do one, mate, I don't need your bleedin' sympathy”.

it's an interesting quirk they have over at Liverpool. I mean, do you really have to beat Bournemouth nine-nil? Utterly humiliate a team that is just back in the Premier League?

Surely at five- or six-nil you think, let's wrap up shop and make sure there's no injuries. But no, they were going for ten. And their ego now has completely ruined Bournemouth now, sacked the only guy who would keep them up with just two weeks gone. Good old Juergen.

Kevin, don't agree with you re Liverpool stopping at 6. If it was us 6 nil up, we'd want more. I'm glad it stopped at 9, 10 would have made life insufferable.

Feel sorry for Scott Parker, but if the manager criticises the owner, board and players, it's not going to end well.

Dundee Utd (the Tangerines) lost 9-0 to Celtic at the weekend and sacked their manager.

Bournemouth (the Cherries) lost 9-0 at the weekend and sacked their manager.

This type of synchronicity makes me feel comforted.

Rondon told to do one, apparently.

I'm not certain that Everton will miraculously improve once they get rid of Kenwright, Brian, because I don't think it's that easy, mate.

I do think you miss the point sometimes though, imo Brian, because I don't think it was so much that Moshiri or Usmanov wanted Kenwright to remain, but rather think it was the only way they could purchase Everton.

I might be wrong, but that's why I think Bill Kenwright is still the Chairman of Everton, and his patsy is still the CEO of our failing club. Maybe if I could just get past caring, I'd stop boring people.

Nowhere do I say I'm certain Everton will suddenly improve (although I believe we might win the cup, once we've got rid of our Jonah). The Kenwright years of mismanagement and decline aren't suddenly just going to disappear once the man leaves.

Saw this elsewhere but it sparked my interest. We have to register a squad of 25. Assuming we leave out our long-term injured of Townsend and Godfrey, we have space for 1 more. We don't need to worry about homegrown as we have loads. If Gueye signs, we are full and someone has to do one.

This also means the Gallagher & Broja player swap nonsense with Gordon wouldn't work anyway as we could only register one of ‘em. Who else goes?

Leave out Mina perhaps, see if anyone has been asleep for the last three years and might take Gomes? Lots of concrete pillars going up at the Stadium, perhaps we could use Rondon and save a bit of cash?

Then who goes in January as we'd need to ship another 2?

At work, and signal is often poor, but rumour WBA want Rondon. We all hope this happens!

Hey I know the chat space is there for off-topic stuff but it is game day and when is Gerrard bashing ever out of style?

Bailey wants out, Watkins wants out and The Grauinad even took a swipe at Stevie's big pants manager talk and predicted a downfall.

Villa may be one of those teams that finds its way into the Bottom 3.