World Cup: Day 14

I'm going to invoke Michael Caine here:

"There are only two things I can't stand in this world – people who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch!"

USA! USA!USA!

I've heard the Dutch are dealing with a virus but it's actually VD. I have no idea how the colonials will score but I think they may be able to pressure and push Van Gaal's team to the limit.

Dale,

Love it. Totally agree with Michael Caine!

Despite major misgivings initially, I think this has been a terrific World Cup.

We've seen some of the greatest stars flicker and in some cases, actually go out, but we have seen some wonderful individual play from youngsters coming through and some great team performances, particularly from unfancied nations who have been more than happy to stand toe to toe with more illustrious opponents. The gap is most definitely closing.

This, for me, will go down as one of the better World Cups – I think it will for anybody who doesn't have a selective memory which enables them to block out the many dismal matches we had to endure even when greats like Van Basten, Muller, Cruyff, Maradona and Pele were participating.

It's football, for fuck's sake! Some good games, some bad… but the good has certainly outweighed the bad in this tournament.

A big mention for the fans of all nations too. They've certainly brought their A-game. Colour, joy, huge numbers, passion, heartache, despair... We've had the lot.

I don't fancy the Yanks against the Dutch, but they fancy themselves and that gives them a foothold in the game before the ball is even kicked. They will not be taking a knife to this gunfight and I will not be betting a penny against them.

I just hope somebody can have a word with their fans about those fucked-up bandanas and persuade them to leave them back at the hotel.

Darren, one of the better World Cups?

A football tournament at this level is always going to be interesting; the football itself, that is. Everything else about this World Cup is rubbish.

I've been enjoying it, but then I can relax and watch the football when it's international.

Interesting interview with Klinnsman this morning.

I think it's been an interesting World Cup. As he said, we've never had a World Cup played in the intense heat of the Middle East or at this time of year. Maybe that's what has caught out a few of the usual suspects in their preparation?

We forgot Bellingham. I wonder if he will remain with Dortmund and in the Bundesliga, or he's getting whispers in his ear as we speak to entice him to the Premier League?

I thought that Cameroon player was unfortunate to get a second yellow and red for taking his shirt off. You could see the Ref didn't want to do it but had to. I hate that rule.

Always been a fan of the Dutch and their consistency in producing quality players, but today I'll be cheering on USA.

A group of my Texas colleagues are congregating in a bar for what is a 9 am start for them. No doubt the chat channels will get lively.

One of them supports Liverpool. I've tried to educate.

So many of the unfancied teams have shown great spirit and prevailed in games that seemed beyond them. I wonder if England can do the same?

You can never really predict these things, but I'll stick with my previous. In order of precedence:

France
Brazil
Argentina
Spain
England has a chance.
Holland as dark horses.
Croatia as a wild card.

It strikes me that this is one of the most open World Cups ever. So many 'small' teams have beaten the big teams. Two of the big favourites, Germany and Belgium, haven't even made it to last 16. All the other favourites have been beaten by lesser teams. No-one has shone especially.

You could even make a case for England being the form team in the group stages. Equally nobody has embarrassed themselves, every proverbial dog has had their day with the exception of the abysmal Qatar and arguably Wales. Even Canada, who lost all 3, looked handy at times.

I don't see why England should fear anybody. You could make a case for us having by some distance the best array of attacking talent in the competition and we also have a good midfield, including one of the world's most sought after players. It's our error prone defence that is our weak point. Even so, I hope Southgate shows ambition in his tactics and game management and gets the most out of the formidable talent at his disposal.

Thats it Danny.

No point in sitting on the fence. Not when you can edge your bets and tip the first seven favourites

It has just been reported that Pele has been moved to end of life care, very sad.

Right on the back of things being played down after his recent hospital visit, Dave. 82 years old, I read - it feels like he'd be older somehow.

What a legacy, one of the most recognized names on the planet.

Danny

I think the "usual suspects" are struggling because they're five to 10 years past their peaks. Messi, Ronaldo, Muller, Lewandowski, Bale, Suarez, Godin, Cavani, Neuer, Alves, Pepe, I can't remember a world cup with some many stars in their mid to late 30s. The only "world class" at this minute star is Mbappe.

LET'S FUCKING GO!!!!!!!! We can do this, we really can. This is the best USA team since Donovan and Dempsey crew. Huge game for us.

I'm completely freaking out.

Should the need arise, hope there's some ready medical support available for Jamie on speed dial

Good chance, crazy good save.

Tony, the Florida National Guard has also been placed on alert. Jamie's backyard pub is under tight surveillance.

I predict the US must score early to have a chance. They left blood on the tracks in the Iran game while the Dutch had a casual kickaround against Qatar. From 60 minutes on, fatigue will be the big factor.

God so close

I am at work so can't watch but I am relying on Jamie and Mike for unbiased commentary

Mike, I hope they're skilled.

Decent start for the Yankees. Playing with forward intent. Real chance for Pulisic.

My commentary right now would be a string of obscenities. Too easy a goal to give up.

Ouch.

Well, you gotta defend as well.

Mike

Look on the bright side. A goal down, your coach can't go too defensive now.

I could kill McKenney not tracking back and out for a stroll - didn't mark Memphis.

We're playing great. Awful to see that goal.

True, Kieran. Maybe an early appearance from Gio Reyna.

Never thought I'd see an American team control a game and possession against a team like the Dutch. We look great honestly. This isn't over.

As Dave has said, very sad about the news of Pele being on end of life care.

Inspiration to billions, and timeless.

USA v Holland is a good game, and the winner will play Argentina or Australia, that should also be a good game.

This World Cup tournament - football side of it, is holding it’s own.

Hopefully Everton, will take in some inspiration, confidence and belief for the Wolves game., after the long World Cup break.

The Dutch are sitting back - countering - against the USA. This is so, so odd to watch.

Shame you guys fell behind to a sucker punch, especially since Pulisic should have put away that early chance.

BBC commentators quite bearish about USA chances, but don't give up yet. Games can turn on a sixpence*

* an old coin of the realm

Ferrara, or however you spell it, needs to come out. Very ineffective. Sargeant was miles better. I'd bring on Reyna for sure and then stick a non-traditional striker up top - Weah or Pulisic.

Great shot Weah. Dest playing so well.

Weah ROCKET! God get in the net man!

God I miss Miles Robinson dearly.

And that will do it, I'm afraid. Same play, same goal twice.

Well, I said at the beginning, Final 8 should be the goal. We didn't get there.

We got out of an average group and KO'd in the first game. Not good enough for this squad.

We're young. See you in four years - IN THE SUMMER!

Mike/Jamie

Do you not remember that time Juve were beating Utd 2-0 in the CL semi. Or since you're American do you not remember that time Germany were winning I think 4-1 and then Sylvester Stallone saved that penalty and Pele led a miraculous comeback? Talking of which, indeed very sad news to hear the great man is ailing. Really the first global football superstar.

Kieran, I thought Pele kinda dogged it in that game with the fake rib injury. I thought Bobby Moore, John Wark and Ossie Ardiles really carried the team. And Sly of course.

For the USA I had no thoughts of the final 8 coming in. MY goal for this baby squad was to get out of the group and put down a foundation for the next tournament. Mission accomplished. And good enough for me.

Very unAmerican to accept defeat at this stage, Guys. Two goal deficits get turned around every day in Football. Still another 45 to go.

Yanks need the shot in the arm an early goal would give them, but you have to fear for them now. Dutch can be explosive when they do come out to play and they are very well versed in employing the dark arts in innocuous area's of the field. Strangling attacks at birth

Yanks have no choice. They have to keep going. Maybe add a bit of spice to their own game and see if they can ruffle a few Dutch feathers.

Kieran (36), was that United game v Juventus the one where Roy Keane rallied his teammates to a thrilling 3-2 victory knowing that he wouldn’t play in the final having been booked during that win?

Oh my God. So NOW Berhalter brings on Reyna?

Jesus above.

Darren, Kieran, anyone - I've not given up at all. It does seem likely we will lose, b ut don't mistake pointing out probabilities and frustration with giving up m'man!

Nobody giving up, but realistically this is a team that, like Everton, lacks finishing. Good example there.

Jamie, Reyna isn't even close to game fit. A half was all we were ever gonna get out of him.

Thats the spirit guys. Remember the Palace game at GP last season. We couldnt finish either, but we got three

Dave

Yeah that's the one. Inzaghi got two goals in about the first ten minutes and Juve thought they had it won.

Darren, what the USA needs now is Michael Keane!

Very un Dutch like, but they could upset a few.

Organised and disciplined. Almost German like.

Dumfries. Another that got away.

Two carbon copy goals down the right hand side. Deft little touch from Klaassen in the build up to the first.

I standby to be slated, but in the right setup, a talented player. And Van Gaal doesn't suffer fools.

Spread your bets Darren. But then I'm rubbish at gambling!!

USA going all in with attackers. Hope Jedi is OK. That was a great play and an ugly collision.

Danny, Klaassen is absolutely a quality player in a situation where physical presence (strength/pace) isn't necessary. Ajax and the national team are perfect venues for him. He never had a prayer in the PL.

Brilliant save from Turner.

On a sad note Pele is receiving palliative care after Chemo Therapy for Colon Cancer stopped having the expected results.

That was the chance.Very heavy touch.

Oh. Hello !!!!!!!!!!!!

OMFG what kinda touch was that Wright??? AWFUL!

LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheer accident on that touch but we'll take it!!!!!!!!!

happy days now get another

Game on!!

Just seen a meme on Facebook

Lewandowski - carrying Poland
Mbappe - carrying France
RyanAir - carrying Belgium and Germany

Do we still rate Robinson as someone we let get away or had Dumfries shown he was not good enough?

USA keeper is insanely good on penalties. If we tie this thing up, we're gonna win it.

How the FUCK is that guy not marked and THAT open??? What the actual fuck man???

shit.

Robinson showing everything he was taught about defending at Everton with that 3rd goal

Nobody taking any notice of the player standing on his own waving for the ball

Robinson was marking Gakpo. The responsibility for the overlapping fullback is a midfielder. In this case either Reyna or Aaronsen.

Someone should have told Robinson that football is NOT a spectator sport if you’re playing.

Mike, Robinson is the fullback and that area is his when the opposition fullback isn’t actually overlapping at all but standing there unmarked with his arm raised. Gakpo should Hbe been passed off to one of the central defenders standing in the middle doing nothing.

Mike - Ream and Robinson were marking the same guy I thought? If so, Robinson has the "back post" as we'd say in 'Merica.

We've got a far better left back in Mykolenko than Robinson. How anyone can say he's one that got away is beyond me. At least Mykolenko can defend. Vastly overrated.

Chris, Jamie, the US system is that the overlapping fullback is supposed to be tracked by the left side midfielder. Robinson's job is to mark a man, not an area or a post.

Somebody failed to do his job, as first Adams and then Dest failed earlier. In this case it wasn't Robinson who failed.

Mike -

We'll agree to disagree. I don't see that as "the system".

When there's a guy completely unmarked on your side of the pitch - like completely - and you're in the back 4, it's your job to pick him up. Not the midfielder 10-15 yards up the pitch. It was like 8 yards from goal. What in the world would our RM be doing there?

If that's the system the Berhalter is more moronic than I thought - and we both know that's saying quite a bit.

I predict the semifinals for this team in four years, when our best players are 24-27 years old and we're playing at home.

Crap defending either way.

Well, this team played well. Defending let them down for sure.

Reyna is gold. I wish we'd have seen him more.

Berhalter letter grade B. Managed pretty well actually.

Disappointing, but I have to say this side will be together for probably 2 more cycles, and there's a LOT to be hopeful for.

Very proud of their effort and commitment.

Not so bad a performance by the U.S. but some of that 2nd half play would have been better employed in the first half.

The gap to the previous "lesser" teams in now very small.

A joint US-Canada team would be good.

2026 world cup Oceania get a spot guaranteed and a playoff spot too. So basically New Zealand qualify automatically. Wonder if Australia will reconsider their decision to leave Oceania?

Peter, there'd be the language barrier to consider though.

Jamie, we'll disagree all right. Dumfries cruised in from 80 yards away. Aaronsen and Musah were just totally unconscious of his existence, and Reyna was standing around on the opposite side of the field, 50 yards out of position. All three were just drifting, ballwatching. Robinson was in Gakpo's chest as he should have been. Unless he has rear view vision, he can't know that the entire USA midfield has abandoned the left side of the pitch. It's his job to mark the most likely target, not cover for four other guys who went walkabout.

Peter

I don't know. Neither the USA nor Canada can seem to score. Maybe a joint Serbia USA would be good.

Will that's my take away, too. That gap is near non-existent.

I watched a USA team that used to be defined as a defend the Alamo, backs to the wall, gritty program to one that just now took it straight to HOLLAND and played right with them. Our play was fluid. We possessed the ball. Our midfield was marvelous.

American soccer has progressed light years. We looked a proper, fairly pretty team.

As Mike said, four years from now we'll be playing at home. I'm very, very hopeful and positive we'll look brilliant and go far.

My heart kinda breaks right now. I so desperately want the USA to go deep. I feel it in my bones. Gutted.

But we can definitely agree on this team. This is a side to be proud of and excited about. Find a couple new centerbacks and either find or develop a finisher or two, and we are serious contenders next time.

Absolutely Mike.

Miles Robinson missing was big.

Proud of them - they never gave up. The future is very bright.

We need to do this the American way, not the Belgium golden generation way! 😜

They gave a pretty good account, Jamie.

Don't know the final figures but at one point, goal attempts were 5/2 for both teams.

As committed as they are, the lack of pace in central defence is an issue, and maybe more firepower needed (2 frequent Everton "favourites") but the midfield, build-up and wing play were pretty good I thought. Have come on leaps and bounds really.

*Mike, I've done it again. Didn't copy your opinion - honest!

With the "talent gap" closing around world football seemingly, I wonder aloud, is the expanded format for the KO rounds coming four years from now a good thing?

I mean, if teams are so close talent-wise and games so competitive, is it the worst thing for the tournament to expand the KO round / bracket? Give more teams a bite at the cherry?

I think the combination of both types of test is a good format, good balance.

I guess statistically a full knock out formula slightly allows for more "shocks" than the longer format with no chance to recover. A different sort of measure.

We'll find out...

Jamie 82,

I think 32 in the knockout stage is too many. I mean yes teams are more competitive but still realistically how many teams could be in a shot with actually winning? Maybe 8? So if the knockout round has 32 teams in it, then basically using this world cups line up that would mean teams like Canada and Qatar being still involved at that stage. And that's after having to watch 16 even worse teams play games and get knocked out in the first round. I suspect a lot of people will be bored after watching Tahiti, Uzbekistan and other no hopers lose to marginally better no hopers like Qatar in round one. Similar to the expanded Euros. We now have a handful of complete crap teams to tolerate for a few weeks before we actually get down to the legitimate contenders. Of course the odd upset is nice but if the trade off is a multitude of one sided games or games between two completely crap teams I am not sure fans will keep tuning in.

Great minds, Will.

Kieran, I will definitely not be bored watching the Tahitian World Cup team.

I'm not convinced that gaps are closing. World Cups throw up many sides who perform above expectations from time to time but it's the same old winners.

I thought the Holland v USA game was very predictable, sorry, and it was another dull watch.

Groups of three is stupid. There won't be any of the excitement of the last week with simultaneous games and qualification switching around by the minute. It will take 48 games just to knock 16 teams out. A bigger World Cup means quality diluted.

Stop Infantino - the World Cup killer.

The other thrilling thing is there will be up to 7 CONMEBOL teams in it from a federation of 10 teams. So all the European based players in those 10 teams will fly to South America for 18 qualifying games each over two years just to confirm that Bolivia, Venezuela and Paraguay won't be going to the World Cup.

Football is in the hands of lunatics.

Very sad to hear about the news of Pele now on end of life care. He has been receiving chemotherapy for cancer, but unfortunately he is no longer responding to this treatment. Guess it’s only a matter of time for one of the greatest players to have ever played the game. Obviously I never saw him play live in the flesh, and the only game that really sticks in my mind is the 1970 World Cup final.

Ever thought I’d say this but “Come on Oz”!

A sending off or two wouldn't be a surprise here

Australia have definitely come to play and they are giving Argentina a hard time, I just don’t know what game they are playing, Australian Rules Football? Thank fuck Nessi scored that goal, hope he scores a few more and packs those Aussies back home.

Rob, I was thrilled to see him in person a couple of times in Chicago -- once on a US tour with Santos in the early 1970's (vs. Lazio) and once again a few years later with NY Cosmos.

One measure of the man is what he did on the greatest stage of all. 14 World Cup games. 12 goals, 10 assists.

Would have been good to see Pele play his football in Europe. Surly he must have had the opportunity?

Rob, my abiding memory of Pele is v Uruguay in 1970, when he dummied the goalkeeper by letting the ball run one way while he went the other way, unbelievable player! I still rate him as the best ever.

Rob,

I was lucky to see him a couple of times, the first was at Goodison in the 1966 World Cup but unfortunately he got kicked off the pitch.

The second time I saw him he played a full game and even managed to score against Gordon Banks. It was in 1969 in a friendly between Stoke City v Santos, and a few of us went up there for the game.

One of the things I love about Messi is his weight of pass, perfect every time.

So why is there no segregation of fans in international tournaments, no line of security and no fighting?

Matt Ryan … oh dear!

One day we'll start to see a reversal of this trend of recent years to fart about with the ball in the most dangerous area of the pitch - all caused by a coached-in fear of not keeping/using possession, making players reluctant to welly it up the field when necessary.

Defenders fart about but 'keepers are the worst. They are mostly too slow and lack the footwork, but still they risk it. There's a close one or worse in every game almost.

No Funes Mori in this Argentina squad? …. Unbelievable!

Will @102 I agree. Why can't they just lash the ball down the field?

Denis Stracqualursi is on the bench, Jeff!

Nearly goal of the tournament there...

Can we get the same injury time in the Premier League?

Christy, why not? It's what it should be, instead of the standard time at the end of each half in the Premier League… 1 & 3 minutes

Wow, them Argentina fans fantastic, their economy must be buzzing.

Fray Bentos selling well?

No Christy. The heart won't take it.

I'm a fan of just stopping the clock. Then there is no injury time. We play the 90 minutes. Not what some official decides having forgotten to check his watch or wait for Liverpool to score, "last goal wins" style.

Messi is up there with Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Maradona and Kevin Sheedy. All different players in different positions but greats.

Is it Holland v Argentina next? That could be an interesting one.

Observation today, that pitch was fading and cutting up. The difference between the centre (browning) and penalty areas was notable.

But I guess grass doesn't grow naturally in the Qatari desert.

Sad to hear about Pele. Never saw him play properly but his legacy is clear for all.

Bill @ 98; I went to that game too - how could you not !

Stoke were a decent side then with Banks in goal and if it was not quite their Cup Final - then it wasn't far off.

This was not...for Stoke anyway...a 3/4 paced exhibition game it was more a like mid week Cup Replay.

They'd bust a gut for 15 or 20 mins and manage a shot, iirc, they even scored once.

Edit; I checked it was 2-3

Then Santos would pass them to death - bang - bang - bang and score, then more Stoke huff and puff for 15-20 mins; rinse and repeat.

I remember Pele dancing round 3 or 4 defenders in the box...Richie was one and he was no mug And then Banks to score from 8yds or so.

But he didn't just roll or tap it in, he Blasted it Into the empty net - near burst it.

I also remember going around that time to The Victoria pub and then the ground to watch Us put them to the sword in a similar fashion - "Oooooh The Everton Attack, Yes, yes, yes it's the Everton Attack."

Sighs; Sic Transit Gloria Evertonia.

Interesting to read that some of us, previously renowned for lambasting anyone taking a more tolerant view, are now capable of accepting bad games as part of the football viewing experience, despite the world's greatest players having allegedly taken part in so many of them. Hmm!

Mike # 79,

The USA definitely approaches games to try and win but you're not there yet. I applaud this.

Add two genuinely class players to this side and you become contenders. Let's see what the Aaronson brothers and Pepi can do.

The USA could genuinely be on the brink of a breakthrough.

Business as usual: World Cup back to being boring.

France will win.

Kenwright out

The US team can hold their heads high. They just got outclassed by a Dutch side that was absolutely cold-blooded in converting their chances.

Once we scored, I honestly expected to see them defending for their lives over the last 15 minutes – it was a perfect scenario for an American side that thrives on energy and emotion – but the ease with which they strolled down the pitch and restored their two-goal cushion was like a cat playing with a mouse (spotty defending certainly didn't help).

I think we've reached the point that we have to advance beyond the Round of 16 to be considered a "success," but definitely a lot of positives to take from this World Cup and the future looks bright.

Derek @110,

I seem to remember at that game after Stoke scored they lined up for the kick-off and Banks was still joking with the crowd behind the goal and Pele looked up and blasted it toward the Stoke goal from the halfway line, and it was the crowd shouting that alerted Banks otherwise it would have been in.

You have to see these legends of the game at a match to really appreciate how good they are.

Also interesting to note that some cant tell the difference between taking the good with the bad in a tournament contested by various nations at various levels, using various tactics to bridge the gap, and supporting relentless shite week-in & week-out, year after year.

Whilst I have every respect for Stuart Bellamy, his views and his boycott of this tournament, I can't help chuckling at those who keep coming back to tell us how disinterested they are and how crap the games they haven't been watching have been.

I can't wait for the Goal of the Tournament compilation. There have been some brilliant goals which will have delighted football lovers all over the world.

My wife and I watched England v Wales in a small pub in Bruges. We had the unfortunate experience of a Man Utd supporter on the next table.

One of those supporters who knows everything there is to know about football and who is keen to share, or rather, impose his opinion on all around him. I think the dictionary definition for such a person is "knobhead".

We endured a rant about "Guardibollocks" and just why you wouldn't let your daughter go near Phil Foden. Jordan Pickford wasn't on his Christmas list either. The first half was, of course, not great – made worse by this tosser's constant diatribe. We left at half-time and watched the rest of the game in our hotel room.

My point herein is this. Sensible and intelligent debate is fine and all of us accept and understand the passion that may inform opinion. That much is clear from postings on TW.

To those of you who seek to impose your view and to ridicule, rubbish or dismiss as stupid the reasonable opinions of others, take a moment to picture this Man Utd knobhead.

We are proud of our wit and humour and fairness. Long may it continue.

I have only watched 2 games from start to finish and they were both England games.

I think the reason I haven't watched isn't because of where the games are being staged; I think it's just the trauma Everton have put us through in the last few years, so to get a break from it, I am treating it like a close season.

I just hope that our manager and our DoF have used this time to set up deals that are done and dusted and we will have some new players from Day 1 of the transfer window opening.

Personally, I think that first Dutch goal should be a contender. Both were similar, but the first for the build up play. Classic out to the wide player, low pull back and sweeping first time finish beyond the keeper.

Neil, you reminded me of being surrounded by very opinionated Man Utd fans watching the 2009 FA Cup Semi-Final in a bar near Wembley.

They got a bit out of hand and one started spouting off derogatory shouts about Hillsborough for some reason (it was Everton v Manchester United after all).

Although there were significantly more Man Utd supporters present in that bar, an Evertonian from a small table walked up to a gang of them and told them in no certain terms to cut it out. The language was obviously a bit stronger.

They went mouse-like.

Sorry, not a World Cup story. Those cousins of ours may be unlikeable as a collective and an entitled bunch. But they're our cousins.

I saw Brazil play Bulgaria at Goodison in the 1966 World Cup game which Brazil won 2-0 with both goals being scored from free kicks, Pele and Garrincha, it wasn't a particular good game but a privilege, for me, to watch the great man in action.

The game was played on the 12th. of July and there was a Brazilian fan in the Gwladys street stand who banged his big drum throughout the game,well I think he was a Brazilian fan, he might have been a drunken Orangeman who got lost on his way home from Southport.

Just reading back on this thread and seeing the way football has begun to go (or grow?) as a television sport, then I've got my own madcap idea of how the next stage might eventually go.

No injury time at the end of the first half, no injury time at the end of the second half, but they save it all up, blow for full time, and then they give us ‘overtime' which will be all the accumulated minutes, that are carried over, into a third half, consisting of however long that has been wasted during the previous 90 minutes?

Madcap I know, especially the more I think about it!!

Tony (121), I’ve warned you about thinking!!

I should also have mentioned Messi's.

Perfect in its simplicity. But he done what truly great players do. Created space when there appeared to be none and passed it into the net.

Tony,we should both listen to Dave. I overthink Everton and football in general!!

Definitely Danny. He’s a lot easier to listen to, than he his to talk to, since he went deaf, but maybe he’s just got selective hearing!

Tony (124), I heard that!! Just as I was about to put some money in your birthday card for
Thursday!!