Battling Everton undone again by their latest jinx team

If Grey was to have a role, it'd be as a lone frontman using his pace, but hardly his best position. So expect he'll continue as an impact sub when required, and possibly be sold on in the summer to raise funds.

Really need one of our attacking players to score today, we can't keep relying on our defenders.

But this will be a tough game, Villa have a good, albeit inconsistent, team and a very good manager. Many attacking players who can make a difference.

So we need to keep it solid.

Can see this being a 1-1 draw.

Same as it ever was. Even if it is a particularly impressive effort today.

If we had a striker then Dwight McNeil would probably look brilliant doing basics.

Onana's booking was a bit of a farce and the Ref didn't even give a free kick while he did nothing for other fouls that were far worse even if not worthy of a yellow card either.

Iwobi should have scored in the 7th minute but what is wrong with our lot that they don't seem to have the slightest idea of how to burst the net. And then McNeil and Maupay on the break, could you pick two worse to be in that position and if we continue to put high crosses into the box then get Simms on to give their defence something more than Onana to think about.

And it seems Doucoure hasn't done enough at Finch Farm to improve his shooting never mind scoring ability, he does only have two legs, doesn't he, as something seems to be getting in his way.

Don't understand the boos for Digne, he challenged Benitez and we got a decent fee for him.

First half was a good watch, I'm going with a Mykolenko screamer for another 1-0 win.

No surprises, nothing out of the ordinary. We just don't score goals. It was true under Lampard and it's true under Dyche. It would be true under any manager in the world.

Maupey is totally useless - weak, couldn't finish his dinner, can't even stay on his feet.

£100M in from Richarlison and Gordon, none spent.

We all know it so why don't the board?

At least Dyche has got us organised and putting in a shift, more on the front foot... but without goals, it counts for nothing.

Shitty day all around with Leeds and West Ham both winning. The mountain just got that much steeper.

It's been costing us points all season and again today the same.

They've bet the ranch on Calvert-Lewin being fit (a) in the summer then (b) in January. Totally incompetent and potentially catastrophic way to run a football club.

We played well until the penalty. Maupay is dogshit, Gana a moron and Coady played that goal like he had his feet tied together.

Thelwell and the board have a lot to answer for, not signing a forward in January was CRIMINAL.

This team will not get out of the Championship.

We didn't go behind thanks to Pickford and Tarkowski being awake but I didn't think that was a penalty as Gana seemed to get a light touch on the ball and the Villa man fell over, again with barely any contact. Then as with penalties, do they do any homework, Pickford moves before it is kicked making it simple for the taker. I also thought that the tackle or whatever it was on McNeil was more worthy than the penalty they were given.

And again, Doucoure, who I didn't think had much of a game, was booked/carded for a foul on a man who was stood behind him, ridiculous. In fact all three yellow cards were poor decisions.

It's up to Dyche to sort out but we can't keep playing Maupay. Yes, he hassles and puts in effort but there's nothing else there. I wouldn't suggest we had anyone who you could say was our MotM but I was surprised that Onana was subbed before Doucoure, was it an injury?

Back to the drawing board but do we have any options?

Doucoure… I don't understand the hype, the most uncoordinated player I've seen and gives possession away more than he retains it.

We should have won it handsomely.

Maupay is poor but not convinced Simms is much better. Coady is poor and Mina (and possibly Keane) is definitely better. Get Coady out of the team.

Will be a battle right up to the final week I think but we were a touch unfortunate today. Hope DCL can get back soon.

McNeil and Doucoure worked hard. Gana is a liability. Coady absolutely left for dead by Buendia. What was Mykolenko thinking when he ducked to give Watkins a free header? Great save by Pickford. Dave Abrahams, I see what you mean about Iwobi not making any tackles.

My false hope has evaporated

We played really well today. It's actually what hurts. I'd be happier if we'd been shit.

Nottingham Forest away now becomes must win.

The awful Paul Jwel Derby team have the lowest PL goals sored record, we need to score another 4 just to beat that. Good Times, I don't think so.

Sam a fit DCL? he's not Salah or Rashford et al, he's someone that needs the ball 6 yards from goal, I don't feel it would save us even if fit.

Dyche has improved the team. However, we need DCL back.

Villa are not a poor side by any means and loosing their last 3 games was not really a true performance of the season and this showed in this game as they have scorer,s not a scorer but scorer,s.

S.Dyche has at least got some organization and fight in the team and whether it is to late we may not find out until later but my own opinion is that it may be close but favorable.

I suppose we will get the usual cries of Sack certain people, but my main gripe over that, is it that person sunning himself on his yacht in Monaco who is the major problem for letting it happen.

I'm sorry if this makes me laugh but are people still relying on this lad?

He'll play one game (if he doesn't break down in training) and then go missing for another four weeks.

The negligence in signing quality attacking players going right back to last summer is bordering on a criminal investigation.

Gana doesn't make that challenge and give away a pen we win that. Plenty of twist and turns still to come.

As someone pointed out in a post on this threat, most uncoordinated player I've ever seen.

But then again we have three central midfielders that are all the balls worst enemy and two wide players that aren't even good enough to flatter to deceive, in McNeil and Iwobi.

I would like to see Godfrey come back in soon in place of Coady.

Buendia was a Villa sub who changed the game, A player better than anything we have in midfield. Makes you think.

The big doubt is whether he’ll ever be “fit” again. Certainly such an eventuality cannot be relied upon.

Perhaps take a day off, as you are seeming to enjoy it a little bit too much?

Time to adjust to relegation when we are 5 points off mid table? You can but the rest of us will continue supporting the team.

2 more wins and 6 draws.

I can't see any more than that realistically.

Whether that is enough to keep us up who knows but I just can't see this team having enough in the tank for more than 33 points.

Shit result today and next game very tough but enough games to stay up.

The crowd made a difference in the first-half when we got behind them and Villa visibly wilted. But, as so often, momentum on and off the field was not sustained.

I was going to say that the Forest game next week is massive - but every game is massive now.

We need to start planning how to spend the Pickford money oh and the Gordon / Arteta money

Total negativity from the powers to be in getting in an adequate replacement is killing us even if DCL was fit and playing.

Having no options on offense makes it extremely difficult to score goals and it needs a team to be very solid defensively to get points which we have not been. We can't even get draws against crap like Villa and Wolves.

Okay, we stole a couple of wins recently but Everton always find a way to bite you in the arse.

Not much chance of getting anything at the Emirates unless the Gunners have a couple sent off early on and even then we would be hard pushed to get anything with this bunch.

Game, set and match ?

Dyche needs to mix it up a bit, Garner, Mina, Mills need to come in.

Recall Cannon

The problem for Forest is that they've already had a second wind and it blew out very quickly. They also share a wretched goal difference with Bournemouth.

We have to hold our nerve. We did make chances today so it wasn't all bad.

I continue to think that Dyche has what is needed - just.

I agree, meanwhile, with Steve @53, we must stop writing ourselves off; that will be music to our enemies' ears.

“VAR did check the incident - and agreed with on-field referee Anthony Taylor’s decision. It was felt that Gueye went to ground and took the man first before the ball.

Chris Kavanagh was on VAR duty at Stockley Park.”

If Iwobi plays he has to be central, why does this have to be learnt all over again? McNeil our best player IMO. Maupay what is he good for? Doucoure, besides being pound for pound one of our worst signings of the Moshiri era, simply panics when he gets in the area.

We’re certainly not out of it, but it’s getting more and more difficult to have hope. I think the big question going forward is whether Dyche decides to make any big changes. One could easily make the argument for replacing any of Gueye, Coady, Doucoure, Iwobi, Coleman or Maupay. If Garner and Patterson are healthy, do they play? I think they have to. I think the sooner we play Godfrey or Mina in place of Coady the better. I want Gray on the field if only because he’s our best chance from open play. We can all argue about the quality of Davies, but at this point I’d rather go down with him playing than Gueye. And the miracle needed will likely be if DCL gets fit for Forest and stays healthy.

Dyche gives me hope. Other than that, I think we need to hope there’s a God and he’s a Blue and wants my first trip to Goodison next year to be for a Premier League match.

Dyche has his favourites who will start every game, on or out of form so I can’t understand why some see him as some sort of genius.

You can’t make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

Good on the fans who think, like me, we are far from finished in the fight to stay up, the most disappointing part of todays game was that Colman’s effort and endeavour wasn’t reproduced by some of the other players and the lack of confidence in other players is disheartening.

Seamus my MOTM again today with McNeill, Tarkowsky not far behind and a mention for Pickford with that terrific save until Burnley got that decision for the penalty which turned the game their way. When your down the decisions of the referee’s seem to keep you down and Lady Luck looks the other way.

I'm not sure how much of the first team would be in demand by PL teams if relegated. Pickford?

Speaking of Burnley, Kompany will be alerting PL teams, but I think he'll stay another season.

Since control of the Moshiri/Usmanov axis kicked in the decisions at this club have been monumentally bad far beyond the uncompetitive M.O. of the previous regime. Top dollar for crap players, knee jerk manager changes and the madness of building a new stadium without sorting the team first.

This calamitous club deserves to be relegated

So do you reckon Dyche has ten favourites or who are these players that won’t be dropped?

I think we were a wee bit unlucky today and looked the side who maybe wanted it more and its again down to fractions.

I don't know what hold Villa have on us but every ball in there box, rickershays and blocks all went there way.

Because of our effort and determination I don't feel to dismayed and feel things will improve especially our luck.

Play Gray - he can create and finish (the rest can't)

Replace Coady with Mina (much better defender); Myko with Godfrey (more pace and aggression); Doucs with Garner (far less clumsy and has vision)

Dyche needs to make changes and create some competition... lest the current inert set will get worse with complacency

It's all there to fight for - I predict we'll stay up by the skin of our teeth again

Dyche is another talking the talk, but we need to walk the walk. I can’t seeing us getting anything from the Arsenal game, and we need all the points from the Forest game next weekend.

I think the damage was done when we all got carried away with Moshiri's cash and Koeman, Walsh and Bill pissed it up the wall. There have been other errors, some serious ones, but that disastrous early episode was when the disease really took hold.

We had the money but we never had the astute people to make proper use of it. Indeed, we had the opposite: self-serving poseurs who thought they'd won the lottery (as indeed they had) and could do as they chose. One of those disastrous people is still defiantly in place, accompanied by his dim, corporate minion and looking to make himself the martyr.

Not Moshiri/Usmanov to blame, save that they failed to exclude from the outset the man who believes that He Is Everton. And they recruited the indolent, arrogant fucker Koeman - but most of us thought that was a good idea.

Anyway, let's try to keep our gaze on the future.

It's still tight at the bottom but it's getting difficult to fancy us to escape this mess.

As you admit you don't know the answer to your baseline question, so how can you come to such a dogmatic conclusion?

I understand lashing out mentality rules on these boards but it is NOT fact — it is pure conjecture. The only real facts are, since the Moshiri and Usmanov era kicked in, we've turned to mush… and we're more likely on the road to the Championship than ever before.

I know what you mean but we've just beaten Arsenal and Leeds with defenders' goals. Can we stagger home on that basis? No.

There is a very notable midfield goal deficit, as well as our striker deficiency, and this has been rather overlooked.

McNeil with a great run, good first touch, should have just thrown his right leg at the ball instead the chance had gone.

Maupay had 3 half-decent chances and blew them all.

Doucoure runs into the box then falls over the ball waiting for movement in front of him.

Tarkowski had all day to pass it back to Pickford but ended up turning and putting the ball out. Nobody marks Buendia and his first touch sets up a cast-iron penalty. Buendia with a similar half-chance to our players but turns Coady inside out and calmly knocks it past Pickford for the 2nd.

We just haven't got the quality. Dyche has to realise Iwobi can only play in the centre and that Gray is our best attacker.

Special mention for the ref. He had a terrible game. I could list loads of his mistakes but can't be arsed.

Massive week coming up.

Gana gets the ball.

Cannon should never have gone out on loan... the lad's an instinctive striker who knows where the net is. I thought he did better in his recent brief cameo roles than either Maupay or Simms.

I never thought I'd utter these words... even Rondon might have made a difference today, given what was McNeil's best display by far (far from perfect but much better).

What's up with Doucoure... I like his endeavour but he's the footballing equivalent of Manuel from Fawlty Towers at the moment.

That bastard Taylor hates us, but booing him when his name got called before a ball was kicked was idiotic. I said to the lad next to me, "We're deffo getting nothing off this clown now today." And so it came to pass.

Hope springs eternal; if I was religious, I think I would light a candle or two, I still might try it.

McNeil, in my view our best player for the 2nd game running, put in loads of crosses... not all great ones, but put a half-decent striker in and we probably win. We were the better team for much of it. McNeil was playing with confidence, taking one touch then crossing.

I would personally play Gray instead of Iwobi on the other flank, but maybe the work rate is the deal-breaker. Anyway, gutted.

We can carry on as we are and hope for 5 perfect 1-0 wins. It could happen but it will be a nail-biter.

I'd prefer Sean to figure out a way of including Gray without disrupting his game plan. Not easy to do but he's our best goal threat.

Beyond that, we've the Hail Mary of the injured players, Calvert-Lewin, Townsend and Garner making a creative impact.

I couldn't watch the game today but, while the score is disappointing, it's not hugely surprising. We are where we are for a reason. After 3 wins in 19, getting 3 in 4 was always unlikely. We just have to dust ourselves off, keep the faith, and move into the next one.

What worries me when you look at the remaining fixtures is I see a return of 10-12 points, which is not enough. There are some really difficult fixtures left.

The change of Manager should've been before Christmas. I'm hoping for a miracle but we don't score enough.

Bring Godfrey in for Mykolenko, bring Mina in for Coady and, if Patterson is fit, bring him in for Coleman and give the old legs a break.

Maybe even try something if Patterson isn't fit, put Godfrey right-back, McNeil left-back (think he's better defensively than attacking) and Demarai Gray on the left wing.

I just think we need to try some alternative things as it's not totally working in key areas.

Sacrifice a midfielder and pair Simms with Maupay.

Just try something to give us a goal or two.

Your concern is entirely rational and logical. But you know how football is. Often times the teams that avoid relegation are the ones who get surprise wins. Remember Leicester under Pearson won the last four? West Brom similar under Robson.

I've seen Norwich more than once look safe and sleep walk into relegation at the 11th hour. So with only two teams below us, every game looks hard and I'm sure they will be. But football turns up surprises sometimes.

1 Play two up front: Simms and Maupay if Calvert-Lewin is not fit.
2. Mina for Coady
3. Remove Idrissa Nyarko for the 2nd striker
4. Vinagre for Mykolenko
5. Gray for Iwobi

Fingers crossed — you're right. I think Dyche is the best shot we have.

Taylor had an awful game. Giving free kicks to their players for diving and even a yellow to Doucoure for just playing football. Shirt drags and multiple fouls from Villa resulted in no cards.

We all know how the VAR works in this country, it's a tool to back up the already inept referees. It's certainly not improving the game.

Spot on with your assessment. We still have average players here now on massive money that Koeman & Co signed, and the other players he signed were sold for a fraction they were bought for, and we had to pay up their contracts as well. We are paying for it now.

Good spirits and so a slow start and Everton got a grip, but in my view timid in front of goal, no-one taking ownership to take the chance at the right time.

Least said about the clown of a referee, who was his usual. He was hypnotised from the kick-off by Villa's theatricals and their blatant time-wasting from all their players, epitomised by their goalkeeper, who thankfully was booked but far too late in the game, imho.

So on another day the game could have been wrapped up by half-time. Still plenty to take in to the Arsenal, and the same as at Man City.

Massive games in a big week. Everton can't take a hit and lose x3 games in 8 days. I'm confident we can take some points this next week at Arsenal and Forest.

A reality check, if you don't take your chances or want to take ownership to take the chance, you'll get punished, as Everton found out today.

But plenty of games to win, and can be won.

UTFTs!

No chance we'll see Vinagre in a blue shirt again, another absolute waste of a signing that probably nobody knew who signed him.

Godfrey would offer more athletism at left back (or right-back) depending on Patterson being fit (another crock?).

I don't think Godfrey is an amazing defender but he excelled at full-back when Carlo was here, didn't he?

I just watch Mykolenko and I can't see anything in him that gets me going at all, a semi-competent defender but that is about it.

We need to get that whole team further up the pitch, that means getting more pace in the side right now.

The rest of Taylor's performance was also a disgrace, he doesn't blow for a foul by Onana or waves play on, but as soon as Onana goes to see how Luis is, he books him! For what?

For a foul he didn't even give, that's what!

Taylor has a clear longstanding dislike of EFC, I believe its cos he's a Manc and doesn't want to be obvious by being biased against LFC, it's bias in plain sight by a scouse-hating Manc.

Paranoia? I don't think so.

We played against 11 v 12 today wiith Onana muted by a ridiculous early booking.

We put in a good performance today and played against a good Villa side and a biased preening referee. We had chances in the first half that should have won the match and may do on another day.

There are combinations that Sean Dyche can still try such as starting with Simms or / and Gray upfront. Godfrey back etc and maybe the return of Calvert-Lewin.

Sean Dyche has made a difference and has not just changed players every game for change sake, trying to build a unit.
Villa were lucky today and brought their own ref. Other teams won't be as lucky.

Keep the faith and keep giving your great support to the team.

Well said, sir!

One of our biggest problems is the officials.

A penalty we would never have been given and the telltale of a deliberate biased referee when he books our influential midfielder, for nothing, early on, taking the edge off his game. It turns a game right there.

We had the same problem last season so when are our asleep-at-the-wheel board going to act to stop this outrageous behaviour?

Your conclusion seems to be that Moshiri and Usmanov are to blame for the club's decline because they took over the club and that is a fact.

Yes, I think I grasp the force of that logic.

I wish we had a Watkins or a Buendia in our ranks – players we should have in abundance with all the money we've spent. The fault is firmly with our recruitment, not Anthony Taylor.

Are the officials top notch and don't make massive mistakes that influence results?

I think it's not unreasonable to have a level playing field and quality officials in elite sport.

We don't have that, and it should, and will be highlighted by “the firm”.

Moshiri & Usmanov took over the club, there has been a decline, Moshiri & Usmanov are to blame.

Or, possibly, 1 and 2 above, and we are not entitled to comment further.

FWIW Leon Osman was commentating and said it was a pen, I think he got the ball, a clear & obvious error? I'm not convinced. We didn't do enough to win – Villa were far more clinical. That's on us not the officials.

Today, if we set the team up 4-3-3 with the back 4 as defense, it still leaves 6 players with none of them having what you would call a goal-scoring background, and that indicates we are only set up for a striker to score.

Today on a number of occasions there were 3 of our midfielders in and around the goal area but only 1 real attempt at goal.

I understand that a decent striker should increase our goal-scoring attempts but we should be getting goals from other players – not having 10 men rely on 1 player.

You do realise we're in the Bottom 3 at the moment, we also don't have a striker that scores goals?

Now I'm not saying we are deffo down, but I can understand some fans giving up hope. The team have hardly given us any in the last 2 seasons.

A disappointing day for Evertonians, as any defeat is, but it was not a dire day at Goodison Park.

But no one's blaming him for the defeat, which was self-inflicted by poor defending, and by a reluctance to take ownership and finish good chances made.

It's a lesson to be learned but, for Arsenal, Everton must regroup and play to their strengths and grind out a result.

Jeez also there's many games, suspensions and twisted decisions, which will impact all clubs in this League; I think this season will go to the wire.

1998, let's hope not, but any from 12th down, could go.

But I think Everton have to get ahead of West Ham, Leeds, Wolves and Forest. I see them as our key opponents.

We beat West Ham, and Leeds and drew away v Leeds, and must reverse away v Wolves and beat Forest.

Loads to improve on but it's winnable, with belief, luck and guts.

UTFTs!

UTFTs!

A dreadful refereeing performance. But he's bald and from Manchester, so that's ok.

Another day, Everton would have won, but the confidence corner must be turned this week, in terms of scoring goals.

It’s kinetic in terms of making steady progress away from the bottom 5 teams.

There’s time to train and games to play and win, but let’s not have another 1998.

NB for me from the Main Stand, TB, it wasn’t a penalty, and only on seeing a reply, post game on my phone, I believe Gaye got the ball first and McGinn, went down in time honoured style.

I am seriously loosing faith in football, due tonVAR, and rank poor officials.

Today’s official were like Duck Soup..

But Everton, are still in a battle, but they can win this battle to stay up.

UTFTs!

big 2 weeks. hopefully 4 points, but anything less than 2 and we're done for.

I'm comfortable that Sean dyche is our manager and probably our best signing in two years and he must stay on if championship comes calling. Good news is we still have hope and a chance, small but possible! The Everton family must be exhausted by it all but keep the faith!

That result today was a real panic inducer. It feels different this time.

Aston Villa just waiting till the second have to exploit this weakness.I predicted it before the game, since in every game except on their first game against Everton after being promoted from the Championship, they have done exactly the same.

I hoped Dyche would have provided more defensive cover for that space, particularly at the start of the second half.I also hoped that he would have brought on Subs earlier, since Aston Villa had the measure of Everton s attack and w ere confident enough to push forward.If there had been early changes it would have upset their game plan.Which they had been working on all week.It went 109% to plan for them.

Dyche did neither and the Everton team, poor as they are paid for it.They should have come away from that game with a point aleast

We were the lowest scoring team in the league with a respectable(ish) defensive record. We appointed a man known for keeping it tight. We're still exactly what we were even if we do have a bit more endeavour.

In fact, we've traded our only occasional goal threat in Grey in exchange for that endeavour.

Working hard matters. But scoring goals is absolutely vital.

What's the plan? I know what I'd try but I've been watching this team for a long time. The manager needs to find these things out... and we don't really have time for that.

Another sacking?

Get back under your stone.

We've gained a better manager...one who just might save us. We may have appointed him too late but we have at least improved our chances of survival.

Mykolenko is totally solid defensively. Certainly an improvement on his predecessor, whom we saw today.

But Barry is right, Antonee Robinson is a whole lot better, and letting him go for two million was sheer, unadulterated idiocy.

I had this one down this morning as a “must not lose”, but lose we did. My head says we are in very big trouble, one of the 3 worst teams in the league. My heart says we can pull out of this situation, then my head kicks in again and recognises that we are lacking that bit of class that can turn a game, we are too dependent on a restricted game plan of scoring from a set piece and hanging on.

Crumbs of comfort? My Leeds-supporting pal thinks they are going down. My Nottingham Forest- supporting taxi driver last night thinks they are doomed because they have a weak squad! Apparently they are down to their last two fit centre backs.

As for today, we were ok, but Mr Dyche needs to change something up front because Maupay is bringing nothing to the party. McNeil tried very hard, and his ball control is exceptional, but he lacks that extra half yard of pace, and a right foot. He was up against a good full back.

Onana was restricted after 2 minutes due to a highly dubious yellow card - I thought VAR was not to be used to investigate potential yellow cards, but it must have done so as the referee didn’t even award a foul? And surely the penalty was worthy of a review? Mr Taylor’s performance only assists the case of those who claim the game is corrupt. (Having said that, I understood why he blew for the quickly-taken throw in, there were 2 balls on the pitch).

There is a tough week ahead, a point from each game would be a good return, but even that would not particularly help our league position.

Letting Robinson go was a disgrace, he was decent when he left, certainly good enough as a successor to Digne. He was 20 when he left, his kick-on is no surprise.

I think we only got £1 million for him… Brands has a lot to answer for on Antonee Robinson but all the focus is on incoming signings — what about the one we let go?

My analogy is today. The headlights weren't working but Dyche decided to change the brakes. Which fucked everything up.

It's frustrating today, but hope eternal.

UTFTs!

I feel conflicted about your remarks on Dyche. Earlier, Colin Glassar says there are 17 better managers than him.

Now Colin isn't exactly all sunshine and rainbows but he is pretty astute. I remember when we were getting carried away under Carlo, he maintained we'd finish between 10th and 12th. He was correct as often he is.

Your comments on Dyche imply you think he can get more from this team, ergo, you're an optimist so that gives me hope. Conversely, if you and Colin are right about Dyche, but you're wrong that another manager could do better, then I'm staring into the abyss.

Therefore, even though you're technically more positive than me, I'm going to disagree with you based on my more extreme negative-positive equilibrium in which Sean is my last hope.

Other teams above us only have to match our results, not better them, we are in deep shit make no mistake about that.

I know... like me, a lot of fans will have poured over our remaining fixtures, I cannot for the life of me see any more than 7-10 points tops from what we have left.

I'm genuinely scared, sad, angry and convinced next season will see us in the Championship.

It's been coming for some time, tbh, and this board will have a lot to answer for when it does. Then again, when have they ever admitted culpability for anything?

Colin, correct me if I'm wrong.

Getting rid of Rondon was another huge error of judgement by the powers that be. He is exactly what Dyche needs. Water under the bridge.

I'd say every game he's done some great tackles – mainly, good passes often, and too many poor passes, and much reckless waste-of-space passing and opportunity is wasted. But Vitalii isn't the worst player, and he has a heart.

Leadership in that back four and the whole team is now key. All players take ownership and play for the Everton shirt, every minute of every game, this season and henceforth.

UTFTs!

Come on, mate! I'm already low now you're questioning my unwavering faith in Glassardamus. Next, you'll be telling me that Howard Kendal Mk II's team wasn't a striker short of a Championship-winning team.

You might remember I made similar comments in January prior to his appointment. My point back then was that the players weren't shirking – they simply weren't good enough and a new manager was very unlikely to change that.

We needed to sign a striker (I know, and practically everyone knows) and a midfielder with a forward gear. That was what we needed to even have a chance.

I don't think a new manager was ever any kind of solution in isolation. But appointing a manager who didn't exactly have a history of being able to address the key problem with this team made it more likely that this wasn't the right move.

Signing Dyche was akin to us signing another defender and arguing that, if we could concede less, then we'd have more chance of winning. It's true, but it's not what was really needed.

In the meantime, our new era under Dyche is almost exactly the same as what went before. Decent effort, we don't concede freely, minimal threat. It's the same shit with a slightly different smell. It's what we were against the last 4 teams we've played (including Liverpool - I can't understand anyone complaining about that performance when it was completely standard) and it's what we've been for quite some time now.

I don't blame Dyche for the performances. I do hold some contempt for him accepting the role during the last week of the window. He had leverage at that point and took the salary regardless. He's complicit in those events.

Brendan @154, I don't see it at all. Do we score goals now? How has appointing Dyche improved our chances of survival?

Overall, this was not a bad performance from our team. In some ways the attacking play was better than in the two recent victories. Once we conceded, however, there was no way back.

I thought Mr Taylor was terrible. The penalty decision was correct but some of his other calls were poor, for example awarding a free kick against Doucouré for a fair challenge on Mings.

Some of the play-acting from Villa players, notably Douglas Luiz and Buendía in the first quarter of an hour was pathetic. Taylor fell for it.

When you put it that way, you're quite correct. It's just that we don't want to believe it.

We're hoping that Dyche can change it, but I suppose it's inevitable that this group of players will take us down – no matter who is managing.

But most of us will not accept it until it's mathematical.

Everton and all teams have at least 13-14 matches to play. So, until it's all done, it's not done, and at the end of this seaso Everton will still be there. Fans and all support will help and make it happen.

No more down the Banks, without a proof. Miles of football, for Everton, to win, lose or draw, but to stay up in this season, is our Aim.

UTFTs!

This team is fucking shite of the highest order! It wouldn't matter if we had 100 games left as we cannot score even if our lives depended on it!

Maupay is another dud we added to the pile of shite we already had! Gueye and Iwobi are useless. On top of that, we have 2 of the slowest central defender in the top 2 divisions.

At this point, I would play Keane instead of one of the Coady or Tarkowski, as he has goals in him.

When teams get relegated, the cherry pickers come to town, Onana maybe, Pickford possibly, but we are in the Bottom 3 tonight because our players are shite, nobody will be cherry-picking Mykolenko, Tarkowski, Coady, Gana, Doucoure or any of the others who played today and last week and the week before… we are where we are because of these players.

C'est la vie.

UTFTs!

Total dereliction of duty. Fuck Off, Thelwell etc. End of.

Mina would be way better than Coady to play alongside Tarkowski, but we seem to forget he is made of glass!

Paul,

I believe we went down after the Bournemouth game and our board's reluctance to replace Lampard before the World Cup Finals. Not to mention not addressing the striker issue.

So yes, I believe we are going down this season because we cannot even win our easy games at home coupled with the fact that we are pretty awful away!

Having plunged us into transfer penury for next season and the season afterwards, minimum, despite having squandered hundreds of £millions in doing so, we are, observably, the least potent team in the Premier League. Every other team knows this.

Every other team also knows we're short of pace, heart, skill, venom and fitness. I'm sure Dyche knows this too. It's been going downwards for decades. It can't be solved in weeks.

I hope, beyond hope, that we avoid relegation.

That said, I implore us all to daily protest against those in charge of the club, whilst doing our damndest to give all our hearts and minds etc etc to the team on the pitch every damned match.

What the hell have we honest fans done to deserve such a dilemma?

He took only a few seconds to confirm these feeling when he gave Onana a yellow card for what was a foul (not given) but was not a yellow-card offence.

I agree with the first four names you mention. I can't comment on the fifth as I made a lenten vow to abstain from mentioning him.

I also believe Dyche should play a 4-4-2 formation. Perm any two from Maupay, Gray and Simms up front. We have to win games; draws serve us no purpose, given our league placing.

I hate to say this and obviously I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that continuing injury problems may well be bringing a premature end to Calvert-Lewin's career. Without him, we do not have a player capable of being an effective lone striker. The board should hang their heads in shame for not recruiting an adequate replacement striker in the last window.

I want to see us go at teams, as we did today, regardless of the opposition. Employ attack as the best form of defence. It may well prove our only option. Let's face it, every other combination has ended in failure, so for me, two up front is the last throw of the dice. Go for it before survival becomes beyond our reach.

I applauded our combined effort today. The players gave their all. For their penalty, I believe Gueye played the ball and connected with it. His momentum was bound to carry him through. It was a harsh decision. The cards for Onana and Doucouré were nonsensical.

All is far from lost but, as Einstein once said, "A definition of insanity, is repeating the same action and expecting a different result." (Or words to that effect.)

I hope that Sean Dyche is aware of this when he pens his next teamsheet and selects its formation.

My reflections:

1) The press was effective and well organised.
2) The switch to the left side worked well in the first half – I could finally see why we signed McNeil.
3) Maupay should not start another game.
4) Gray must play on the right side.
5) Bring Godfrey in at left-back.
6) Pray daily.

Sad thing is that, even if we beat Forest, we will still be below them unless we beat Arsenal in the interim. My go-to is that Howard Kendall Mk III had the worst team ever.

But in truth would Don Hutchison or Duncan Ferguson improve this team? I think the answer is yes.

Over the years, it's been done at different clubs and at different levels, usually in an emergency. Some defenders have even gone on to have successful careers up front, eg, Chris Sutton and our very own Fred Pickering (both England internationals). Sandy Brown did it on occasion too.

It couldn't be a worse idea than persisting with Maupay on his own when it's painfully obvious it doesn't work. Desperate times etc.

It improves the quality in the side by a little bit (by dropping Mykolenko, who I'd love to be a better footballer, but he isn't) while maintaining 3 in midfield which is crucial given they're all fairly useless and need the numbers.

And it increases our attacking threat purely by virtue of having two players up front who aren't good enough instead of just one.

We might concede a few more but we might score a goal. Just imagine that!

Jesus, who put that cliff there???

I saw Sandy play twice at Number 9 – one season at Man Utd and Southampton. God forbid that we ever see a repeat of that disaster. He was worse than totally hopeless.

If that isn't working switch McNeil and Gray so they can cut inside and get a shot away.

Bournemouth - Arsenal (A), Liverpool (H), Villa (A), Fulham (H) and Brighton (H).

Soton - Leicester (H), Man U (A), Brentford (H), Spurs (H), West Ham (A).

I can’t see them getting many points from that lot.

Pickering, like Malcolm MacDonald, was converted early in his career. Mina and Keane – John Charles they ain't by a very long chalk. They're not even as good as Marshall and Lyons was better than him and Gabriel was better than both.

I expected them to open us up and was impressed at how we resticted them for long periods. It is clear that the plan was, as usual, to score from a set-piece – and we almost did.

Our players just panic when they get near goal. Doucoure had a couple of worthy runs and then lost control of his legs. Even Gray hit a tame shot worthy of the Women's Super League late-on.

We have to stop whinging on here. We are in a scrap with the likes of Forest, Leeds, Bournemouth etc and we will all suffer ups and down. It doesn't matter if we are facing Bournemouth or Man City, they are all tough games. Who would have predicted that we would beat Arsenal?

So let's not despair – the team showed up and fought. We lack quality. We all knew that but at least we look fitter and ready to work. Now we need Simms to get more minutes and hope that our broken striker heals.

Plenty more twists and turns to come. If Lampard had stayed, we would have had zero points from the four games.

Exactly.

As soon as I saw Seamus Colman on 51 minutes commit a professional foul to prevent an Aston Villa player coming through to attack the right middle of the Everton defence with space beyond, I knew that Dyche had missed the point. It was shortly after that that Pickford saved off the post and Coady cleared off the line.

Seamus doing his best covering a gaping hole in front of the defence. The midfield was stationary and the defence deep. After that, Aston Villa just kept passing the ball into that space which was picked up by untracked Aston Villa runners.

Cover was needed in front of the defence to compensate for an Everton defence that was always going to default to being deep. Gana was the only one in midfield who was attempting to cover that space. He is not as good as he was and is frankly overwhelmed trying to.

Aston Villa have always successfully set up shop against Everton in the first half and equally successfully exploited the above weakness in the second half. Everton substitutions are always too late in the second half. After Villa gets the scores they want, they set up shop again and counter-attack and beat Everton. All too easy for Villa, straight off the training ground.

Agree with Mike regarding Antonee Robinson.

We did scrap, we caused them enough problems to have won, but we didn't take the chances we made.

When it's said that we are in relegation form, I don't agree. They are a good side, a better team than us; but we run them very close and could have got a worthy draw or even won.

This wasn't like the Liverpool game, where the Old Everton turned up and we turned over. We fought well, made chances and have had got beaten. I look at the tackle that Gana made and I thought it was irresponsible, or at the very least, extremely risky, and we paid for it,

Their second goal? That feller took it well. He left our defence and, at a sharp angle, smacked it well and it was an excellent goal.

We've suffered from not having a goalscorer; but it's time now that's our enemy… time to get Calvert-Lewin, Mina, Patterson, Godfrey, Townsend and Garner fit to give, Sean Dyche some options in players and choice in tactics and strategy.

We're playing alright. Some of our players, we know have got limitations but, except for the Anfield game, no team we've played, since Sean Dyche became our manager, have looked certain to beat us.

It is all to play for and we're doing okay and Eddie's last sentence is spot on.

We still fight; and we can escape the drop yet.

Maybe you never saw him in the derby game at Goodison when Sandy playing upfront scored the third goal in a 3-1 win.

Ellis Simms: 6ft-3in … 7 goals & 2 assists in 17 games this season for Sunderland.

Ellis needs to improve his aerial ability but, out of the two, he should be starting if we are playing a lone striker. He's got some height, strength and physicality to at least try to force a mistake from a defender or retain possession. He's got a shot and a goal in him from around the box which we've been missing. Would he have buried one of those good half-chances yesterday?

I think we have to give Ellis Simms his opportunities now, back him, for better or for worse. It's a big chance for him to step it up and prove himself.

Maupay is trying but it's a waste of time, he needs to be deployed as a nuisance sub or playing off Ellis as a second striker in a different formation.

Sean Dyche will be rethinking options after yesterday.

Another player who has to come into the reckoning is James Garner. Another player who has a shot and can come up with a goal or an assist.

Touches in opp. box - 44

Crosses - 35

Shots - 15

Shots on target - 5

-----------------------

and ... Goals - 0

Overall, with the exception of the bottom one that is encouraging - and should not be reflecting a 0-2 defeat. It speaks absolute volumes really.

Maupay is totally worse than useless in my opinion, certainly in this set up. I honestly don't think it would have been worse if we had played with 10 men without him.

Simms absolutely has to be starting surely.

The Arsenal game was a rare committed performance from him; I'm not impressed by his half-measure games, he continues to amble around and go missing from games.

Come to think of it... what's the point of our academy?

Aston Villa subs where a full ten minutes before that, as Villa made a tactical change to exploit the gaping space between Everton's defence and midfield.This change was possible because less defending was necessary by them.Dyche did not respond or anticipate Villa's tactical change.The Villa players came out after half time geared up to test this weakness, which became apparent in the first 5 minutes of the second half.

We did lose though, a debatable penalty isn’t a surprise when Anthony Taylor is refereeing, but when a team has such limited striking options, then staying in the game is rule number one, and we obviously lost this once Watkins scored from the spot.

Six points from twelve, is a lot better than five points from thirty six, but unless we get a much fitter version of DCL back, then it’s obvious we are going to struggle, even with those pretty impressive stats, (in comparison to what had been going on previously) that Kim, has posted@202.

For whatever reason, Dyche doesn’t see Simms as a viable option to start matches and thinks Maupay is better. Not working when we are firing crosses in to try and hit a target man who’s tiny!

So either start Simms, or we have to roll the dice and maybe push Doucoure upfront and slot in another midfielder behind. We could also try Onana - we need someone to get on the end of these crosses if that’s the style we are going to play. Maybe when Garner is actually back and available we may see him in MF and 1 of Doucoure or Onana pushed up. Can’t be worse than trying to watch Maupay impact a game.

Or revolutionary as this may seem, start with both Maupay and Simms upfront and change the formation.

Either way, doing the same thing every match and hoping for a different outcome is not going to work

We played okay.

Finally on a train home. Listening to some nearby United fans that jumped on at Crewe and Stafford. They seem more interested in ranting about Scousers (well them) and Klopp being on his way out.

They are going to Wembley for a final. Honestly.

Kenwright's disastrous influence of years and years of miss management and dragging his heels in the transfer market is the reason why we are here now. Only hard work and spirit can drag us out of this mess, we have a fighters chance of avoiding the drop, it's between ourselves Leeds and Forest as to who will go down.

Almost certainly if we had acted sooner and sacked Lampard before the World Cup, and brought in two strikers in the transfer window, we could of avoided the situation we are now in. That's history, we can only pray for a miracle now to survive the drop. KENWRIGHT OUT!

It was evident to all in the ground, apart from having the worst official possible, that although we got to half-time on level terms, change was needed, Maupay although he does try, is not the answer up front as a lone striker, in fact the only way he should be employed is alongside Simms or (Oh, we have no-one else and we all know why). Doucoure was again dreadful, and should be binned, I was hoping to see a fit again Garner come on, but no, he brought Pancake Tuesday Davies (what a tosser) on for Onana.

I still believe that Simms will come good but he needs more time not coming on with 10 to 15 minutes to go and expected to get two or three goals. Too much pressure on the lad who is new to the Premiership but certainly is no stranger to scoring, in the absence (God knows how long) of Calvert Lewin he has to be given more pitch time either as a lone (not ideal) striker but definitely more effective than Maupay.

I see young Tom Cannon got the winner for Preston yesterday, more lunacy from those who are allegedly running the Club, we have virtually no strikers and they must have known we weren't going to get any either, and they loan out our promising youngsters, who are all hitting the net regularly albeit at a lower level, while we are struggling. To rub salt into the wound they are staying away, because Goodison is so toxic and dangerous for their own safety, unbelievable almost.

Couple of comments on your post:

''Either way, doing the same thing every match and hoping for a different outcome is not going to work''

Well, we've had 2 wins and 2 losses since Dyche has come in, so that's different outcomes, surely?

As for putting Doucoure up front, have you not seen his finishing prowess over the last few games?

Dyche has nothing to play with across the squad and we all know who that’s on. My view is our only hope is to try and be as solid as possible defensively and hope to nick goals here and there which is what he is doing. It’s not the best strategy for staying up but given the limitations of the squad it is our only one unfortunately.

Arsenal up next, we can look no further than that. I am sure the manager will have the boys well focused for that assignment.

Still in a much better place than we were before we kicked off against Arsenal three weeks ago.

From what I know, it's hardly like he forced a move and was sold by the club / manager at the time.

I don't remember him doing a Lescott.

So having witnessed all of this Lampard decided that even though we had sold last seasons top goal scorer, he would totally rely on DCL as our only striker. Yes we still had Rondon on the books, but Lampard had already decided he wasn't up to the job but never replaced him. Lampard lets not forget signed Ali but realized to late that Spurs were right all along and Ali was shipped out to Besiktas. So what does Lampard do in the summer having lost Richarlison, he signs 4 non goal scoring midfield players 2 slow CBs and a left back we have hardly seen, but NO striker.

Now I accept he couldn't know DCL would breakdown days before the season started but he chose to play Gordon and Gray as the main striker for 4 weeks before signing Maupay days before the window closed. Now even Brighton fans were saying he isn't a goal scorer, they said he needs 4 good chances to score 1.

So Sean Dyche has been left with us relying on Maupay or a lad that had been on loan to Sunderland and Lampard only recalled him because he had left himself so short of strikers. Everton football Club renowned for World class centre forwards and this is what we have been reduced too. Yes this owner and board are complicit in everything that has lead to us being where we are but our DOF and Lampard are even more culpable. So I hope all those who were on here posting right up to his sacking that we should keep him are as bad as this board.

Jimmy@191 Liked Pickering very much

Yes, we didn't play him when we might have... but that's what Everton managers have consistently done for at least 30 years: not played promising youngsters.

But back to Robinson. He had a nominal £1M value when we sold him… nearly 5 years ago. Two years later, he moved to Fulham for £3.5M, reflecting another couple of years of slow improvement.

Another 3 years of progressive improvement has seen his value increase to £10M while still at Fulham. The much-touted move to AC Milan never happened.

Yes, shock horror, the player has improved since he was with us. But was the decision to let him go – all those years ago – really that cataclysmic?

Yes, he's a nice tidy player but is that enough to justify why this particular old myth keeps getting resurrected?

You must not have seen the game, Martin – otherwise, you would have remembered Sandy scoring a good headed goal in a derby game because you remembered those two bad games he played very well!!

I’d like to see Mina playing, hopefully soon Patterson will replace Coleman, although I’m not sure about this because Seamus is one of the few players to wear his heart on his sleeve. I can understand why Grey isn’t playing out wide, although this will be a contentious decision to a lot of supporters.

I’d personally play Demari, ahead of two industrious midfielders, or even up front, but other than this, there’s just not that many options open to Dyche right now imo, except swapping Maupay for Simms.

Playing the two of them together doesn’t make any sense to me, because I think we would get overrun in midfield if we tried to play this way, and I’m also hopeful we will soon see a fitter, stronger, and more confident DCL, returning, and this could make a lot of difference to how we play?

What was Vinagre like for Wolves? I don't remember him, tbh.

The only answer if Calvert-Lewin isn't fit is to play both of them together and to get the ball forward and get bodies around them.

We'll be one player light in midfield so might have to go long to bypass it.

What’s the point of playing Maupay as a lone strike and hoofing balls up to him against defenders about a foot taller?

McNeil played well first half but not one player made a near post run for a single cross he put in.

Doucoure played well I thought. He did a couple of bursts forward and one brilliant recovery run to win the ball back on the edge of our box 2nd half.

The ref was either incompetent or bent. The bookings are like there is some betting ring having a accumulator on a booking in the 5 mins (Onana) and Doucoure to get booked (second half when he did nothing wrong).

Idrissa won the ball for the pen but in real time from where I was sitting I did think it was a pen at first but see above re: Ref.

What’s the point of VAR?

Gray on his game is probably our most potent weapon but he is obviously sulking about being left out and was just going through the motions today when he came on. I watched the subs doing their half time routine with the coach and when they were called over to start it all the others went straight across and did the routine whereas he just walked slowly over and joined in 2 mins later and did it half arsed.

Ian, your head must have been spinning about Carlo too much to notice.

Pickford
Patterson Mina Tarkowski Godfrey
Onana Gueye Garner
Gray Simms McNeil

I'm not even home yet after yesterday. That's another story, which I have sub.itted an article about

I look forward to the Emirates on Wednesday evening. I can't think about teams, formations or anything else.

I'm just going with the laws of average. At some point I won't see us get battered at Arsenal (story of my experience there) and we will get something.

In the Prem this season there have been 29 games in which a team has had more than 44 touches in opposition's box. 28 of those teams have won. Only one has lost. That was us yesterday.

For Arsenal we should just play 451 and try and battle out a draw.

Next week I would play:

Pickford
Coleman Tarkowski Mina Vinagre
Gray Onana Doucoure McNeil
Simms Maupay.

That's the difference signing a goal scorer can make.

He was available. 15 million, he had had success previously with Dyche. Why didn't we go for him?

With Ings, we would have won yesterday.

The other 28 instances they will have a goalscorer or midfield who can burst the net given half a chance.

Mike @247, just watch Dyche's post match interview. At the end a journo asks if DCL has any chance for Arsenal and Sean just said "I doubt it".
The way he said it made me think that Domenic is miles away from returning. We certainly are not privvy to what is really happening.
How could they say he was touch and go for Liverpool(or was it Leeds) only a couple of weeks back, and now despite supposedly training on grass again, be so far away that the idea is discounted immediately?

yet further confirmation from another angle of what we already know.

It's criminal. Yesterday was essentially perfect proof of the effects of the recent mismanagement of this club. A very achievable win turned into a loss by having no goal scorers.

Suicide.

Our main problem is obviously the attack and scoring. I though we created enough to win the game, but once we went 1-0 down it was always going to be a tough ask, with that problem in mind. Maupay unfortunately isn't good enough and I think Dyche should start Simms until DCL is fit. He's not the nuisance Maupay is, but he's better in the box and has a knack for scoring goals. We need goals now. Another change I think Dyche should make is Gray on for Doucoure. Doucoure, although he has an engine, doesn't contribute much when we have the ball. He often loses out on possession which stops our attacking momentum.

I would play:

------------------ Pickford---------------

Coleman Coady Tarkowski Myko

--------------------Gana-----------------

Gray-----Onana---- Iwobi--- McNeil

------------------Simms-----------------

with Gray and McNeil alternating on left and right wings. Onana box-to-box and moving up behind Simms in the box when attacking, and put in crosses. Both are big lads and will cause problems.

Otherwise if we keep on playing with this attitude and energy, I think we will be safe. We were a real handful, and if those small margins had gone our way, we could have won. AV is a real bogey-team and I wasn't expecting much before the game. I actually though we shook them more than I would have guessed beforehand. Come on now, let's get behind the team and be positive.

I used to like Sandy Brown though. He was tough and unpretentious. He had a mighty shot that he often tried from long distance. They were usually straight and fast, but his elevation control was limited, usually making for perfect rugby conversions.

Over the years I have been saying play Iwobi in his favoured more central position, you will not get him winning a lot of the balls, but he can pick out a pass and links up play better, his only downfall is Dyche wants to play Gueye, Onana and Daucoure as his midfielders, which is now pushing Iwobi back out wide.

There lies the problem in midfield, apart from the occasional header from Onana, none of the three look like they have goals in them, none of them look like they could rifle a 20 yarder chance that falls to them, they can all put a tackle in, but we need more support for the goals we need.

When McNeil was getting a bashing week after week, I kept saying McNeil needs to be played on the left side, since Dyche has come in and switched McNeil to his favoured left flank, you can see the huge difference already.

Maupay gets a lot of bashing, the guy runs his nuts off every game, but he is not and never will be a loan striker, he needs someone alongside him, he either starts as a loan striker, or he comes off the bench when we take our other striker off.

Surely a little tweak of starting both Simms and Maupay has got to be given a thought, it leaves us a little short on the bench granted, but if we can get the early goals, we have enough options elsewhere to see out the win.

Our big mistake was not bringing Danny Ings in when we had a chance in January, he will pick up half chances we have been creating and put them away, not getting a striker in will cost us big time, but there is nothing we can do now, we have to go with what we have, and hope and pray we can get at least 8 games out of Calvert- Lewin, before the season ends.

That’s where we are at, but a couple of tweaks and bravery might just get us out of this situation we are in.

We simply have to try something different, and going for the two forwards starting could be the answer.

We played well yesterday. Lots of chances, no-one to finish them. Our long-term policy of avoiding players who can score goals is costing us right now. If they waited changing managers because of the cost, I bet they're more worried now.

I suspect last summer's transfer activity was based on DCL staying fit and the previous regime organising the team. He hadsn't, they didn't.

We have to score first. First goal was a poor one from our defence, second was a good breakaway and sharp, clinical finish.

It's in our hands. Seven erratic teams capable of beating/losing to anyone. Seven teams' fans looking at fixture lists with concerns. All about hanging in there and nicking points. Might be the lowest points total to stay up this season.

Yesterday, perhaps for the first time, Dyche realised that he didn't have enough material to work with, forced to turn to Gray, who he doesn't seem to rate as a 'team player'. Unfortunately, Gray like him or loathe him is the only current player who can create a chance by himself.

I also agree that Iwobi on the flank is far less of an influence than Iwobi in the centre midfield. Onana, Gueye and Docoure don't complement each other at all and surely having Gray on the wings with Iwobi instead of Doucoure in the middle would be more useful, particularly at Goodison.

Emirates on Wednesday will likely see nothing put on the points board, and then a trip to the City ground next Sunday, which Everton will have to get something from, because we can't keep losing those away games as a matter of habit.

Or probably because we don't get enough bodies into the box? This might not have been true about yesterday, I wasn't there, so I don't know, but we haven't got many goalscorers in our team, so not enough players getting into the box with real conviction maybe?

I think the 4-5-1 system suits a limited team but the one thing about having only one striker is that this can leave at least one central defender free to second-guess the cross unless you get enough bodies running forward from deep or players coming very late into the box.

The one time Onana got it spot-on, the keeper made a very good save. Nobody in open play looks like they expect to score.

Other than a lot of huff and puff, what contribution does Maupay make to the team? His ability to score is non-existent and he does not hold the ball up to enable others to join him up front, nor does he offer any aerial threat.

Iwobi doesn't score or create chances for others. He rarely makes a tackle or wins an aerial duel. He very occasionally makes a great pass but, more often than not, he gives the ball away. His attempts at dribbling often take him down blind alleys. For a winger, he simply doesn't cross the ball enough.

I'm not convinced by Coady. He is slow on the turn and is often caught out by quicker forwards. Surprisingly for an International centre-back, he isn't particularly good in the air.

Premier League football may be too high a standard for Simms but we will never know if he is limited to 10-minute cameo appearances.

If Dyche persists with his recent team selections, then goals are going to be hard to come by, so he either has to blood youngsters like Mills, or be creative in his thinking and think outside the box.

I think we'll survive but only by the skin of our teeth. The summer has to be one of realism and 100% need to get a new striker – even if Calvert-Lewin stays. The hopes and dreams of the club are too heavy for any one single player, especially one with fitness challenges.

Counting Iwobi, Doucoure, Onana and Gueye when was the last time any of them scored? Are we just set up for a missing striker. McNiel is being used to just put in crosses – why aren't there more players in the box instead of a forward that can't win headers?

Are we missing something? I'm hoping he may turn out to be a Kevin Campbell.

I'm not the biggest fan of 3-5-2, but looking a the squad it seems the most logical way of playing; either that or using Gray as a false No 9.

For the Arsenal game, I'd play Godfrey, Mina & Tarkowski with Coleman & McNeil as wingbacks, the 3 in midfield with Iwobi possibly replacing Doucouré, and Maupay and Simms up top, or even Gray.

For me, there's got to be places for Godfrey and Mina. Although injury-prone, Mina is our best defender by a country mile.

I've been going on about this since Moshiri showed up. Go through the midfielders we bought in the last 6 years. How many of them score goals? That's as big a problem as the lack of strikers.

Mills has aggression and also a goal in his game, so I'd be considering playing the kid if I was Dyche, but I'm also guessing really because I haven't seen enough of him to know if he's anywhere near ready.

Playing out wide in a Dyche team will require a lot of discipline and, if you can't do the dirty work, then my guess is that he simply won't play you. Iwobi does loads of running but sometimes you've got to tackle. But at least he's shown a discipline that he simply never had under Lampard so maybe he might play him inside because he might create more than any of our other central midfield players.

I believe Ellis has taken a little time (5 or 6 games) to settle into the teams at Blackpool and Sunderland, then performed pretty well and scored a few goals.

I guess the problem for the manager is whether he can afford that settling-in period. Given the paucity of options, the lack of threat from a lone Maupay, and the jeopardy we are in, it may be worth rolling the dice.

I think the only way Warrington will get first-team appearances for Everton is if we go down. He's much the same sort of standard as Baningime, Walsh etc. Good footballer, not knocking him but he's only a year younger than Onana. He'd need to look like Xavi in the third tier if, at 20, he's likely to get into a Premier League side.

The lack of any international recognition is a big indicator for him and Mills. Price too – he has elected for Northen Ireland but has only 1 cap for their U21s.

Shea Charles (Man City) and Conor Bradley (Liverpool) have gone straight into the Northern Ireland senior squad at the same age.

Unfortunately, only Ishe Samuels-Smith looks like he has a good chance of being a Premier League first team regular out of the whole academy.

What's going on with Charlie Whitaker? About 18 months ago, he seemed highly rated but I haven't heard much of him since…

I mentioned on the live thread we should bring back Dobbin from his loan spell at Derby County... lively player that loves getting forward and could prove useful for us... we desperately need some goals NOW.

Kieran, Whitaker is a nice player at U21s but also has no England youth international recognition. Plays the game right – but the U21s is a very poor standard of football. His chances of making it with us are extremely slim, I'd have thought.

In our current situation, I would try every fucking thing available to us in order to turn the tide for us because, at the moment, we're just treading water.

We won't get nowt at Arsenal like, but the Forest game is now a must-win!

Such a shame about yesterday. A must-win looking at the remaining fixtures, and a win would have changed the narrative around the club.

The frustration is how few minutes Simms got. Maupay was poor but was unlucky that Mings cleared his best effort and his header was wide. On another day, they could've had 2.

Simms hopefully will get the nod next time, possibly as a double act with either Gray or Maupay.

Unfortunately chucking kids in isn't the answer. At one point there were lots of calls for Tom Cannon but he's got only 1 in 7 for Preston.

Unfortunately it's not like we have Jeffers, Ball, Rodwell and Barkley coming through.

It doesn't matter who the lampost is we just need a physical presence to occupy centre backs and leave our midfield to do what it does best — sit tight and do fuck-all creatively.

Include Demari and McNeil because they can control a ball and bin non-footballers Gana and Doucouré.

With one up front supported by two (Demarai and Dwight) and seven lumping it forward whilst predominantly shoring things up at the back, we will comfortably survive.

I always think that kids need a full season, so it will be interesting to see how Warrington looks after the summer when he has had a rest. Rest is so important, because after a physically demanding season, then young players often change after a few weeks' rest, and can come back so much stronger, and ready to push on to another level.

I still have hopes for both Mills and Price, Robert, but again I haven't seen enough of them to really back my argument up. I also like watching Whitaker, who reminds me of Adrian Heath for some reason but I think the kid must be injured yet again.

My stepson doesn't give praise lightly (possibly because he thinks I'm quick to praise others, but he takes a bit of stick off me) but when he played against Everton's Under-21s earlier in the season, even he agreed with me when I said Charlie Whitaker was a good player!

Dyche is well aware of this but (as I know you know) has no Target Man other than Calvert-Lewin. Maupay and Simms both have serious weaknesses as a target man. The occasional suggestion of using Keane or Mina as a centre-forward is, in my view, plain daft. However, I can see the logic of going 5-4-1 and playing for corners to 3 big centre-backs.

Tony, I think we have so few of any real quality coming through the academy, our eyes light up at players who resemble past stars. Whitaker does play like Heath. In the same way Anthony Evans played like Trevor Steven. And in the same way Dowell played like Sheedy. The style is similar, it's just all being performed at a much, much lower standard.

It's not me judging that standard alone. It's all verified by those who select England etc youth sides – and they are generally overlooking our kids for those at other clubs.

You're sadly right about young players coming through right now. Maybe the lad Simms will be the answer but he must have decent support, either a strike partner or a midfielder bustin' a bollock to get up alongside him.

I'm still hopeful something will click into place and we can pull away from the danger zone and be safe for another season... but improvements must be made throughout our beloved club, from top to bottom!

I wouldn't be concerned about producing international players at that level, Robert, because our last batch of Under-20 World Cup winners have badly underachieved imo, although maybe I was possibly expecting too much.

Tarkowski's touch when giving away the throw in which lead to the opening goal was not one of a professional footballer and having watched the second goal several times I still cant belief what I am watching. When Buendia squared up Coady. Tarkowski should have done what any decent center half would have done and filled in behind. Instead He (And Gana) confront the Villa man too. One touch with the right foot took all three of our defenders out of the game and then Bang with the left foot.... Truly Mindless defending.. Alehouse defenders would have a bit more savy.

Maupay worries me to death. I understand Dyche persevering with him in the hope that a goal may spark a good run of form. That often happens with strikers...But at what point does he give up on him ?

As for Gana and Doucoure. I cannot believe the shite performances they continue to get away with. Tom Davies is better than the pair of them Mind you, my Mrs would do a better job than those two.

Much work for Dyche and so little time to do it...But if we are going to survive he simply has to shuffle the pack.

Yesterday`s team goes down

I agree and even I think it time Tom Davies started in the middle. We need to see Garner soon also, matches are running out.

I don't think we need to make drastic changes and are playing better than we have for most of the season (Palace aside).

Saw an interesting stat saying in the Premier League this season, only 29 times has a side recorded 44+ touches in the opponent's box, and only once in any of those 29 times did that side lose. Us yesterday.

Very frustrating but evidence that we are at least getting into good positions (we're also creating some decent chances); if we go down the failure to find a goalscorer to replace Richarlison (or Gordon) will be a massive factor.

I'm coming round to your way of thinking about the centre-backs, but it would be a risk to change both. I agree about Tarkowski making poor judgement for the 2nd goal, but I still rate him over the subs. Plus he's currently our biggest goal threat! Mina for Coady makes sense until the inevitable injury.

I also thought Doucoure played better, even if only by his own standards. He showed fight, which we're going to need. It's Gana that does my head in at the moment. As for the striking options, I think it's a rare case of something most TWers agree on.

It's the fact this team can't score goals that will get us relegated, not the centre-backs.

Yes, I have seen his prowess. I've also witnessed first-hand the finishing abilities of Maupay & Ellis Simms too - that's my point. We don't have any strikers, bar Calvert-Lewin, who can hit a barn door and, until we can get him on the pitch, then we need to try something different.

The outcome I was referring to was to have someone playing upfront who can ideally score, but in the absence of doing that, win some headers or knock-ons, win some set pieces/free kicks to allow our free-scoring centre-backs to score.

Maupay and Simms seem incapable of any of these right now so why not roll the dice on someone else in the squad. If not Doucoure, then throw someone else up there.

Our last two fixtures, away to Wolves and at home to Bournemouth (the next time we play our fellow relegation candidates – though Leicester could get embroiled), may be decisive. It won't be boring.

Connolly, Kenny, Dowell, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin probably all found their level. Calvert-Lewin in many respects has overachieved because Solanke was the star striker at that level. Dowell had the talent but not the application (and there are dozens like that). Kenny had the application but not the top-level talent. Lookman is doing very well for himself now in Italy.

I think, say, Man Utd or Man City would consider that a pretty unremarkable group. They have that sort of quality coming through all the time. They're after a good few notches above that though – like Palmer, Lewis, McAtee, Harwood-Bellis etc at City. Unfortunately Whitaker, Warrington, Onyango etc aren't anywhere near that league.

Good comments and an interesting statistic too. Based on play we did enough to win, were unlucky not to draw and really didn't deserve to be beaten. Fine margins and luck.

I'd like Simms and Gray to get more minutes. I'd like Coady to make way for someone else. But on the whole Dyche is doing the right things and yesterday was an almost inevitable bump in the road.

Especially for our young players, who had to play under so many different managers, who either didn't seem that interested, or didn't stay long enough to bring many young players through.

What are you on Magic Mushrooms, Crack or some other hallucinatory and mind distorting cocktail ? Heard it all now Pancake Tuesday Davies, aka, Harpo Marx and Bette Davies, wage thief since that goal against City nearly 6 years ago. " Strewth ", as they say down under ! As much use as a Cup Holder on a Jump Jockey's Saddle !

I have a friend in the Drug Rehabilitation Program Dazza, who I think can possibly help you, he is good, but I think you could be one challenge too far ! :-)

Of course our completely impotent attack is the real problem, granted he doesn't have a shitload of options but I can't see how Dyche can persist with Maupay, he never looks like scoring. Whatever his issues with Gray, at least he knows where the net is and was our only semi-useful looking player in the derby. I'm at a loss as to how to slot him in but he's our biggest scoring threat and as such he needs to be on the pitch for 90 minutes, not 10.

Davies for any of our midfield is basically a wash, hate to say it but they're all shit. Doucoure has looked exceptionally useless the last couple of weeks though, so I'm good with anyone replacing him.

I will give you Doucoure by the way, being a bit like Tom Davies, not worth a blow on the Ragman's Trumpet!

As for the other Jackanory shit? :-)

To do otherwise is akin to passengers on the Titanic posting on the cabins, crew, food, recreation, whatever after the ship hit the iceberg.

Good shout. Has anyone ever seen Iwobi put in a full-blooded tackle? Never seems to get a foot in and all too often holds off after closing down the space between him and whoever he is tracking.

An utter coward with the balls of a sparrow. I see a so-called footballer who can't head a ball, can't go past a man, one who continually passes the ball backwards and who covers acres of space making blind useless runs which usually have no end-product.

Plenty of others have their faults but backing out of challenges in a match indicates a tiny heart. Luca was not renowned for his power in a challenge but must have been licking his lips on Saturday knowing he was up against a feint-hearted chicken running around building his match stats without ever getting involved in the hard yards. Bluffer !!

The midfield players who have featured so regularly throughout this disastrous season have not only failed individually and collectively to protect the back four. They have simultaneously failed to support the attack.... In virtually every game.

With the much vaunted Onana and Gana in the team we are averaging less than a point a game. We are in the drop zone and if we don't change and/or improve. We WILL be in the championship next season You do understand that...Dont you ???

I don't advocate Tom Davies as some sort of "saviour" - As someone who repeatedly distorts my posts claims. What I do say is that he is better than the players like Doucoure who are taking us down.. We need every little bit of improvement on offer.

When I look around various websites and even on this thread I see a growing number of people now calling for Davies too. Are they all on "hallucinatory mind bending cocktails" ???...I suspect not a single one of them thinks TD has suddenly turned into Michel Platini. They just want Everton to get out of trouble. They do not care about your fixation.

The record books demonstrate That Everton lose far less frequently with TD in the side than they do when he isn't. You can argue and make hilarious comments about "Bette" or "Harpo" until you are blue in the face, but you wont change official records.

Joe 293

I never really know when a player is available these days. It used to be that they were simply decared fit, or not.. But I agree. Garner has to be in the side as soon as he is ready. We cant go on like this.

"Everton are keeping tabs on Coventry striker Viktor Gyokeres"

It actually made me laugh because as I read it I thought "I bet we're not"

Our recruitment is so shockingly bad that I thought " no we won't be, because right now if anybody else came in for him we'd lose out.

It's so sad but so very true.

What does Kevin Thelwell do each day when he is at work?

Eat at a Gregs beefy bake, coffee, do a crossword, look at the clock, another brew, look at the clock, go home.

Must be soul destroying for him

Let's hope Dyche is having a re-think about who could get the goals for us

UTFT's

I agree with the Centre Backs needing broken up.They reinforce each others needs to fall deep.You will never see that attempt to encourage the pushing up of the defensive line.Cover from the midfield is negligible and gaps are obvious. They also need to provide more of a threat through the centre,.Predominant wing play is easy to set up shop against. Everton's final third play has never been good enough with below average pass completion.This is not helped by a predominate tendency of forwards put effort into deep engaged, rather than get into positive attacking positions.

As for Villa being a bogey team. They have had the same game plan against Everton, since after their initial encounter after promotion.Scoring on queue in the second with a intial goals and then counter attacking goals.

The plan is framed and on a wall at Aston Villa.It even is called the Everton plan: how to defeat Everton.

Probably why from the fire sale at Burnley we didn't get the ones worth having (Mee, Pope and Cornet), and got the ones we ended up with. And this is from relegated team.

This also underlines with so many players that have been in relegated teams (Inc Pickford). Do we expect to stay up, particularly as we don't score goals?

For me the defence aren't the problem at all, it's probably our strongest area of the side. As I have said previously the midfield and strikers cannot hold on to the ball for long enough and carelessly give it away leaving us vulnerable on the counter.

My biggest frustration is that week in week out this group of players seem to break down any form of advantage or attacking play by doing the simple things very badly. Every pass to another player is usually over hit, played backwards, to the wrong foot of the player. It is never the right weighted pass played perfectly for a first time shot or cross, it's the basics and we end up treating the ball like a hot potato.

This happened throughout the game with nobody given the job of curtailing McGinn, he caused the ultimate damage to Everton, first by getting the penalty and I think he had a hand in the second goal, just amazing he was allowed so much room from start to finish of the game.

I rate him.

Played under Stubbs at Hibernian and won a trophy.

Oh, and those always keen to jump onto the Iwobi out bandwagon just remember that he has 6 assists, the same as the WHOLE REST OF THE SQUAD PUT TOGETHER. He’s literally the only player we have creating chances regularly. We have trouble enough scoring without dropping him. Also for those convinced he never makes tackles he actually makes more statistically per game than anyone except Gueye, Onana and Patterson. In my eyes he’s probably player of the season for us alongside Pickford so far, though admittedly a low bar.

Some clubs ask, What would Everton do? There’s one thing they do consistently and who does the negotiations? Yes him, now known as the Artful Dodger for the way he supports the club.

Sam (318)Owobi, “ He ACTUALLY makes more tackles statistically per game than anyone except Gueye, Onana (?) and Patterson, what does a statistical tackle consist of Sam? If I ever needed proof that statistics need avoiding you have just given me one good reason Sam, and let me say truthfully I always look forward to your posts because they are well balanced, informative and well worth reading.

Iwobi might steal the ball from an opponent he very rarely puts his body behind a tackle, if ever, he is a bluff merchant, he’s in the team because of a lack of good midfield players, Why was he taken off along with Onana on Saturday? Possibly Dyche is seeing his lack of fight.

Many games come down to small margins like the ball on the line and the Onana header onto the crossbar. Their penalty was a whisker away from not being one, but it is what it is you get nothing for hard lines.

Will we stay up, I'm on the fence on that one, I'd sooner have points in hand than behind, playing catch up is not where you want to be.

He's also in the top 20 for tackle stats on PL website (https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_tackle)

A 'tackle' doesn't have to mean it's a full blooded sliding tackle, in fact many good defenders have said that if you are making such a tackle it means you've made a mistake! Nicking the ball away is just as useful and less likely to get yourself injured. I think some people honestly don't see the work Iwobi does, maybe because they've already made up their mind on him. That is where (appropriate) stats can be useful. Though he's not really a winger, so may not fit into Dyche's plans moving forwards.

Are there any names of the people who supply these stats, do they get paid? Do coaches actually use these stats, or clubs when they are buying players?

The best manager we ever had, IMO, always went and had a look at players he was interested in buying, used his eyes but wisely listened to the fans, in the crowd, who supported the team the player was playing for, that told him plenty.

That tells me enough to know that the statement "stats don't lie" is a load of magumba!

Dave has got Iwobi spot on. In fact if I hadn't seen Dave's name on it I'd have thought I posted it myself.

This isn't a case of me not seeing what Iwobi does because I specifically watch him to see if I'm being unfair to him.

His sprint towards the opposing player with the ball before stopping just short is his signature move.

I'm a bit worried about Whitaker. He was going great guns earlier in the season but he was subbed off back in November against Southampton after he was the victim of a very heavy collision that might have done his knee in... and has not played a game since, so out with a pretty significant injury, I suspect.

Sean McAllister is another who was getting mentioned in despatches but he disappeared after being subbed against Man City at the end of October. At least he sort of came back at the weekend, playing his first football in 4 months, but withdrawn at half-time in the 5-0 mauling by City.

Einar Iversen and Luke Butterfield both came back for two or three games mid-season after suffering long-term injuries. Ominously, neither have missed a bunch more games so can't be quite right.

The only good news on the U21s injury front has been Liam Higgins, who has gradually worked his way back into the starting XI after being out for many months. But I'm sure he's a long way off any step-up.

In short, he occupies a place in the team but contributes little. I’d drop him for the Arsenal game when we’re going to need 10 outfielders who contribute.

As Sam points out, he has contributed more assists for goals than the rest of the squad combined. Dave and I debated this, so I won’t go round it again.

This side needs goals.

We have enough average players running round it circles trying to tackle their own shadows.

All good managers and scouts are going to go beyond the stats and have a good look at any potential players. But particularly with players you know well or have strong opinions on, sometimes the eyes will see what they want/expect to see.

Unless Iwobi has paid someone to manipulate all the many stats websites out there in his favour then it is pretty clear that he is doing more than many on here credit him with!

Here's another one that shows how well he is doing: Link

If he is not contributing then please do tell me who is?!!

Here is the right line-up.

Pickford
Patterson (or Coleman) Mina Tarkowski Godfrey
Gueye Garner
Iwobi
Gray Simms McNeil

Even Ben Turpin ( silent movie star with cross eyes) would have seen through Iwobi if he had been a football fan!!

I’ve been thinking about the charts or stats that all clubs allegedly use, and can’t help thinking, why are some clubs a lot better than others when it comes to scouting?

It’s really interesting, imo, I was getting told that a certain club sent someone to watch my stepson, and the report that came back was that he needs to be quicker. Honestly, I’m only bringing this on these pages to debate, because the kid in question, can probably do the 100 metres in around 11 seconds.

He’s a young kid who plays to instruction’s, and when I watch him, I sometimes think he’s not getting in the box, because he’s doing that much defensive work, but sometimes I also think he’s not breaking his neck enough, to get into the opposition box. I brought this up with him the other day, and after asking him does he not bust a gut to get into the box, because he doesn’t trust his teammates enough, he replied ‘sometimes yes’ and if it breaks down, I’m expected to be back in a defensive position.

The person who was getting told that he wasn’t quick enough, told the man in question, that he should be checking his staff, to see who sent in the report, and queried if he had even watched him play, because a sprint coach told him in the summer, how quick the kid is.

Sorry for going on and boring people, but maybe the man had watched him and also identified that he wasn’t getting into the opposition’s box enough, and just put it down to him not being quick enough.

It does show to me how important having meticulous scouts, really is, and certain clubs are definitely benefiting more than others because of this?

For a forward thinking player, a return of 6 or 7 goals since he arrived at the club is not acceptable. He can do so much more! It’s maddening!

Iwobi is also near top of the charts for the amount of ground covered in our team (and in the whole league) so I don't think there can be any doubt that he works harder than most. He's up there for yards run, tackles, pressing, chances created; admittedly he's no goalscorer but if he was that as well I really don't think he'd be playing for us!

Dare I say you may be having a bit of a Turbin?! (only joking of course- I always enjoy your contributions but in Iwobi's case I do think it's possible your judgement is very set and perhaps there is nothing anyone could show you which would change your mind?)

Good scouts are using a combination of complicated statistical anaylsis and a well trained eye; possible the one who watched your nephew had neither.

No Sam I most definitely don’t prejudge him, like Brian Williams and Ray Robinson say I don’t want to be picking on him, applauded one very good cross field pass in the first half by Iwobi, but there is one thing that could change my mind and that is if Iwobi himself shaped up, got stuck in and enjoyed the game more, he treats the ball like a hot potato, doesn’t relax and let the ball do some of his running.

Maybe Sam you see Iwobi do a lot of things that he doesn’t actually do.

Long ago I recognised that my feelings for certain players (usually those I either loved or hated) strongly impacted the way I viewed their performances. That's when I became interested in statistics as a more objective measure. Of course statistics can be and often are used badly, and some producers of those statistics are more reliable than others. But when you have multiple different providers showing multiple ways in which a player is contributing then it may be time to question your own judgements as I did mine. Though of course some people just won't accept statistics as valid (usually because it shows something they disagree with).

Iwobi will always divide our fans because he doesn't throw himself into tackles like some do and he seldom scores. But he's undeniably a hard worker and our most creative player by a long, long way; that alone should mean he deserves his place in the team more than some others.

Buendia showed 2 pieces of quality which won villa the game. Before he came on we where the stronger team.

Iwobi has proven that if played centrally he can create and impact the game. I agree with Dave's appraisal of Iwobi but also think that if played centrally he will create stuff.

Doucoure is in the team for his physique so play him right mid.

Drop Maupay and play Gray as we all know Gray has a goal in him.

I think that's as good as we are going to get.

We are in big trouble this year.

As Ed says, try him as a supporting role up front in the middle if he starts at all.

Stats have advanced a fair bit since Scott Parker and nowadays he would probably have great stats for pass completions but poor stats for chance creation or progressive passes or deep completions or such stuff.

I agree Iwobi's much better in the middle but as you pointed out earlier he's not much of a goal threat. He's wasted on the wing for the most part but I suspect Dyche may keep playing him there a he works harder than Gray and loses the ball a lot less often; though Gray is much more likely to get a goal and that is an increasingly pressing issue.

Sam would you expect any team to be after Iwobi in the transfer market based on his good stats. Or wouldn’t the money ball team have far more advanced stats for their quantitative analysis and combining it with som qualitative analysis in terms of scouting inputs. I simply could not see a money ball team like Brentford ever be interested in a player like Iwobi.

I do acknowledge that beggars can not be choosers so we are not flooded with alternatives. However, I noticed that Dyche substituted Iwobi after his poor performance on Saturday. And Iwobi seemed even more nervous than usual. So I think Dyche had a word with Iwobi before the match and that he somehow has seen enough. I would expect another solution for right wing next time. And I certainly can’t see Dyche playing Iwobi in the midfield.

Closer to home, I know one ex member of the Everton coaching staff, was fuming when he was at the club because he thought there was way to much statistical analysis, with people watching games on television, with not enough people attending a game in person.

Being involved in professional football is just a job for a lot of people, and I’d definitely argue that there’s a lot more average people than good people involved?

I watched Chelsea yesterday at Spurs and they are a collection of Iwobi's, more interested in their personal stats than the outcome of the game itself. I said when Iwobi was in the running for a contract extension that I wouldn't want him to be here for longer than necessary.

The fact that he is our most creative says more about the current squad than it does about Iwobi's skills. I like Iwobi, the person, because he has worked hard and he has improved in the last twelve or so months but not enough to give me the confidence that he will alter Everton's current demise, he's really part of the problem and not the solution.

Do stats measure stuff like this, or is this where good scouting comes in?

I can’t see dropping Iwobi making any difference, we just need someone to score. With DCL still out, Ellis Simms has to be given a proper chance. In midfield Garner for Gana has to be considered. In defence Mina for Coady, Mina is a quality player, and talking of stats when he starts we do much better than when he doesn’t.

Anyway think i've bored everyone enough on Iwobi! Suffice to say i think he does not get the credit that he deserves and if he is one of the the main problems despite covering the most ground, creating the most chances and putting in close to the most tackles then i can't wait to see what the others can do without him!!

There’s KITAP1 but Everton can coin a new acronym KITAPOFAC.

Keep it tight and pinch one from a corner, because it’s looking the only way at the moment.

Dyche will need to be Gandalf to conjure up goals from this squad.

But I am unclear as to what the nature is of his latest injury is, I know he has had problems with his quad and his back, and a hamstring injury. But we were told over a week ago that the scans on his hamstring showed nothing. So nobody is saying what the injury is or when the physios think he will be clear of whatever the injury is. In his interview before the Villa game, Sean Dyche said he thinks that when this injury clears it will happen quickly and he will be back playing.
I am afraid with our lack of options up front, then every game DCL misses it makes it harder to see where the goals will come from.

No 2 people are alike but last season Richarlison played a lot of the time carrying an injury, but seems DCL is not prepared to play through the pain barrier. I agree no player should be asked to play when injured, but if the scans show nothing it seems there is something else that is stopping DCL playing just seems he is the only person who knows what that is.

If that's the case, then why is he overlooking the key stat? We're the worst goalscorers in the league and we've just sold our joint top league goalscorer.

Think back to Joe Royle. He found the thing that players were good at and he played to it. He made poor players great by letting them play to their strengths.

Far from benching Gray, he should be telling him he's vital and the most important person at the club. Put him in the areas of the pitch where he can have the most impact. That probably means letting him go wherever he wants. Likewise the stats say Iwobi should be playing further forward. He's far from great, but he's what we've got in a creative sense.

Instead he's doing what he's always done. Keep it tight and swing in crosses. The problem with that is that it doesn't work without a striker in the box.

We're exactly as pointless as we've been for months. It's just a slightly different version of pointless.

I don't blame Dyche. He's exactly what he's always been, despite his claims to the contrary. We're getting what we paid for. It just isn't what we needed.

Soon we'll have tables flash up on screen like Baseball. For RBI - Runs Batted In we'll have BTI - Balls Thrown In.

It's pointless and meaningless.

I remember Martinez waxing lyrical about our stats, passing & possession, all up there over 70% telling the world how delighted he was...after we'd lost 1-0 at Chelsea... the final score is the only stat that actually means anything.

Today Dyche was talking about how as a collective the group are more organised and improved at the back.

Really? Our goal difference is worse than it was... in 4 games we've scored two goals and conceded 4, now there's a stat he doesn't seem to want to discuss.

We scored a set piece corner against Arsenal and a Coleman beauty as rare as rocking horse shite against Leeds.

We don't have a single fit midfielder or forward who has any type of historical reputation for being a goal poacher far less a goal scorer.

The board never sacked Lampard, until the transfer window was nearly over, and I would guess they also knew they were going to sell Anthony Gordon, but also left this as late as possible, because they didn’t want to spend anymore money?

We have sacked six managers since Moshiri came on board, and lost another manager, when he realized the type of amateurs he was working with, imo. We have also had three directors of football, and two caretaker managers.

We have slowly got progressively worse, and have possibly also had every different type of manager imaginable, over the last six years.

We interviewed two completely polar opposite managers, when the job became vacant once again in January.

One manager gave the ultimate insult to our squad of players, and whoever had helped to assemble them, if it’s true he said he would only take the job if he could manage the under 21 team until the summer?

I think under normal circumstances that anyone is entitled to criticize the manager, but if Dyche keeps us up, then I think most people will feel he has achieved a minor-miracle, or maybe I’m just being very dramatic.

Two goals from open play, in the last however many games tells its own story, but anyone who watches Everton on a regular basis, doesn’t need any stats, to know why we don’t score many goals, and this unfortunately leads us back to the dereliction of duty, by “our very inept board”.

A very selective view of the stats by your good self isn't it? The four games prior to Dyche's arrival Everton scored three and conceded nine with only one point won.

As Tony above notes, it took Lampard's team a dozen games to gain five points following their win at St Mary's in October.

If Everton don't survive, it is that bleak run between Southampton away and Dyche's arrival that will have contributed most to our demise.

If somehow Dyche can keep the team getting the odd win in two, he might succeed in keeping Everton in the Premier League. Whatever happens, it's going to be an uncomfortable ride for us all.

Sam said Iwobi is our most creative player by far; since Dyche came in, McNeil is our most creative player, and as Michael Ball said in his column today, not once did Iwobi try to take on Digne, but couldn't wait to get rid of the ball when in possession.

Whatever about the formation away to Arsenal, Gray and Mina should start ahead of Coady and Iwobi. If Calvert-Lewin isn't available for Sunday, Forest are down to 2 centre-backs, so play Maupay and Simms together – both are isolated on their own.

Playing the same style as Royle isn't a good thing when you don't have those players. Royle chose that style because of the players he had. Just look at Hinchcliffe – he didn't become a better player, he was just told to do the one thing he was good at. And it took him to a trophy and the national team.

I can't quite see how Dyche is trying to address the key issue this side has. How are we going to score goals? His approach so far has been to drop Gray in favour of harder workers.

We know that Maupay can score a few goals. He's done it before in this league. So he's now played up front on his own doing the things he can't do. We know Gray can score. But he's on the bench.
We know the rest are not capable of contributing goals based on their history. They play. We know we don't have a big man in the box, and he's got McNeil swinging in crosses.

None of it makes any sense.

It's not like Dyche is squandering an array of talent. And I've already said that the failure to buy a striker will likely relegate us regardless of who the manager is.

But we're going down without a fight. The effort, the press... They're all a front. If we're not trying to address the goalscoring issues, then it's just window-dressing to make us think we had a go.

In this season's Premier League, we probably don't need to become great in front of goal – we just need to give ourselves some kind of chance. In our situation, that means doing something. Anything. At present we're doing nothing. One little fella up front with McNeil knocking in crosses. It's not even a plan.

The next problems will be:

A) Not - where ever we end up - repeating the last two seasons
or,
B) Getting back up.

Does anybody think our collective of Baldricks have even a hint of a cunning plan to sort this?

Therein lies the real trouble. They couldn't... as they say over here... run a sausage sizzle.

It's early days, but I think that, if we can get Calvert-Lewin fit, then the system that we have been playing will suddenly become more potent. But I'm prepared to give Dyche a chance (I believe that anyone would deserve a chance after coming into our disgracefully dysfunctional football club) and I've also got a very firm belief that he will eventually prove people wrong with regards to the football he will get us playing.

I'm not saying he will but I will be very, very disappointed in him if he doesn't because he started his career in a total football environment and because he's not stupid. I don't think it's something he will ever have forgotten. We will see.

However, when Dom returns the team will be ready to continue getting the balls in the box, and finally have someone to put them in the net. The boys just need to keep at it, and we all need to hope that Dom gets fit and stays fit. Survival is dependent on it.

I made up my mind that Royle was a limited manager, the day I read Willie Donachie’s programme notes, explaining that they don’t have a settled system, and prefer to use horses for courses, depending on the opposition.

My own view is that the harder you work on your strengths the more successful you will become, and think playing the game through your opponent, should rarely be at the forefront of your thoughts.

You have obviously got to respect them, but not so it stops you concentrating on yourselves?

You make a number of good points and there's a case for, say, Gray and Iwobi either side of Maupay higher up the pitch – a bit more like how he (sometimes) operated at Brighton.

But then equally we created decent chances against Villa and were unlucky not to win, let alone lose, could have had about 4 against Leeds and quite a few against Arsenal too.

I come back to the point that there isn't a better option out there; just a different bad one.

Hence, we were never likely to go on a winning streak. We were underperforming under Lampard but not by much. We really do have a rubbish team, especially in attack.

I would like to see Dyche use Gray and Simms more. Hopefully the return of Garner and Godfrey can add something too.

Given that crosses had proved fruitless for 80 minutes, why didn't McNeil get moved to the right and Gray to the left, so they could cut in and take shots?

Sticking with Maupay isn't an option either. Gray's been tried through the middle and gets swamped.

So it's Calvert-Lewin or bust? Or is there some other temporary solutions out there? Use the 6ft-5in Onana as a target man with Gray or Maupay playing off him? It would at least give centre-backs something to think about for a change.

Anyway, I'm getting a headache, it's like trying to finish a jigsaw with a piece missing.

Villa set up shop to prevent attacks through the centre and force Everton to the wings.Wing play is easier to defend against, especially when you have Maupay who is short and puts his effort into harrying deep rather than getting into a receiving attacking position.Calvert Lewin is also weak at getting into a receiving attacking position.They both never attack the near post.Villa would have been well prepared to stop both McNeill and Gray coming inside all day long.Villa did ride their luck a bit, but their goalkeeper was up to any limited Everton shots.

I agree with you, I think there's a danger we throw the baby out with the bathwater. Our performance against Villa was actually pretty decent and we controlled large portions of the match, getting into their box frequently (45+ touches in opponents box is in top 30 for all league performances this season) and creating a few decent chances.

I think if we played that match the same way again 10 times we'd only lose 1 of them.

Whatever system or team we play is not going to suddenly turn one of our players into a natural goalscorer so I think we have to just hope that a setup that sees us mostly creating more/better chances than our opponents is our best shot. It wasn't long ago under Lampard that teams were creating chances at will against us whilst we struggled to even get into their box.

Perhaps playing Gray gives us a slightly better goalscorer in the team but if he loses the ball more frequently and allows our opponents to counter often then it may work out much worse for the team. It's a tricky balance.

Good point. Both McNeill and Gray coming inside are high risk for losing the ball.They are not aggressive enough to retain possession and are both easily bullied into taking the easier wing option, aleast they look better crossing.

Actually Seamus Coleman is better at coming inside than both of them, even has a trademark jink and confront style that unsettles his marker. He is also comfortable going right or left and aggressive at retaining possession, but the years are against him. But sometimes he manages to defy even that.

Starting with 367 &377, you objected (with some vitriol) to me saying that Fred Pickering came after Alex Young. However you destroyed your own position when you quoted the dates of their spells at Everton - Young started in 1960, Pickering in 1964. Seems clear enough to me. Pickering came after Young (even though they overlapped).

You said I should get my facts right. Was there anything else I got "wrong"?

You said I know nothing about Everton's history. I would never claim to know all of it, or much at all really. Nor would I claim that what I remember is absolutely correctly. You must be about the same age as me, so you would know what I mean.

In my teens I got to watch Hearts several times a year in Edinburgh. In particular I was a big fan of Alex Young and George Thompson - Alex for his skill and artistry; George because I played left back at the time and loved to try and copy this his techniques (especially the old-fashioned long pass down the touchline past the fullback for Johnny Morrisey or Derek Temple to run onto). When Young and Thompson came to Everton in 1960 I was 14. I started watching them at Goodison and became hooked with the team.

So yes Pete, I did see Pickering play, but I always preferred Young - hence my remarks in 191. I also saw Joe Royle start at Everton as a 16-year old.

Both Royle and Pickering scored more goals than Young, but neither had his magic. He was on a different level. He epitomised The School of Science, and it really meant something in those days. Young was the shining light.

Pete, you said twice, at the end of 367 and 377 that you "rest your case once and for all". I hope it's true, if only for you to chill out a bit. I don't know why you got so narked with my humble post about putting a tall defender in at centre forward (still no takers on that one). Nor can I understand why you were so abusive and mean-spirited. At our age we should try to be a bit civilised and grown up about these things.

This 'exchange of ideas' has been only my second time on TW, although I've logged on and read it every day for many years. I've seen many great ideas and analyses on here, but also many stupid ones. Takes all sorts obviously. I hope I'll find a different reaction if I ever post again.