Live Forum

Very glad to hear that. The comments being made by one of them were just appaling.

I can't comment on the Live Forum as I don't tend to follow it. As you say, Michael, a lot of us are following the match be that in person, on the TV or through the Live Forum.

I think the Live Forum is a great platform for Evertonians to discuss the match live. I just think some should think before they post. It's a bit like the "you're shite Everton" bloke who sits behind you in the ground because we are not 2-0 up after 15 minutes.

And don't have a go at fellow supporters. Make your point constructively without getting abusive.

We all have different opinions. Mine might not be aligned to what others think. But we can agree to disagree.

I had a great discussion between four respected Evertonians with differing views in a bar at Birmingham New Street last Wednesday before we all headed to Villa Park and watched the match together.

Think before you hit 'Send'.

Final point, as always, great work by your good self Michael and Lyndon for herding the cats!!!

This individual will return using another silly name. Please guys, don't get drawn in if he's ignored he'll scuttle off back behind the fridge

It was absolutely disgusting some of the things that got posted yesterday on the live forum, let's hope we see no more of it, I honestly can't believe some of the nonsense that got posted, best not to reply to them as it only encourages them

Yesterday was a new low on the live Forum, some of the comments were totally disgusting, so much for supporting our team.

Alan is right just ignore the embarrassing fools and they will go away.They crave attention.

Is there any way someone who uses the live forum, who Micheal trusts, can be given the tools to delete anything inappropriate?

Just a suggestion Michael and Lyndon but what about restricting ability to post on the live forum to people who have posted on ToffeeWeb for say two or three months? A probation period of sorts.

If possible that is a great idea Brian.

Personally I won't be posting on the live Forum again, there's the same few people on it who are definitely not Evertonian's, and are constantly making negative comments just to wind up real fans.

The Live Forum is a much-maligned but essential part of ToffeeWeb in my view. I am sure most of us would rather be in the stadium but the Live Forum enables Evertonians from every corner of the globe to have a least a semblance of the 'banter' prevalent among match-day fans.

The situation yesterday was thankfully an exception and one we don't want to experience again.

This will happen and the important thing is the collective response which makes me proud of this place. We cannot let fools raise our cost of following the club beyond the annoyance of their obviously aggro posts.

The approach taken will be up to those who initially identify such contributors. Let's try to support them without adding to the noise that turns the well behaved away from the forum. It's not obvious but with the togetherness I saw yesterday, even on that shitty day, we can keep the vibe we all cherish. Did I mention how shitty yesterday was? Anyway, good job, this isn't easy.

I usually check-in on the Live Forum especially for links to games. I look forward to hearing the views of plenty of contributors but it has been undermined recently by Victor Yu (with his unnecessary pessimism) and the idiot Kopite troll.

I subscribe to a few live YouTube streams that have a live chat and they always have a few moderators who can remove unwanted idiots.

If Michael and Lyndon are too busy then could a few of the trusted regulars be enabled to perform such a task?

Strangely there was also one poster who had a blank name (he/she was not a problem), but it is weird that there was no name.

Christy,

I can't do anything if you don't name names.

And I wouldn't be too hasty saying they are not Evertonians. I've heard it said that some do make very negative comments. Even on the Live Forum.

Also, we used to have more tools for checking credentials, tracking IP addresses, and deleting individual posts but they have fallen by the wayside, making real-time moderation difficult.

Scanning yesterday's forum, it seems Victor's main crime was to predict that we would lose. He was never abusive that I could see, so I'm not quite sure why he's been lumped in with the other twat?

Michael I understand where you're coming from, but there's definitely wind up merchants on the site, which there's little you can do about it.

This gets tricky. Victor was not over the line at any point but was constantly trying to provoke some angst without offering any views of value. I think we could deal with that as Mark Taylor suggested. On the other hand, tolerating Victor's provocation sends a clear signal to posters like Farkov that the forum will put up with his sad routine.

It depends in what you want the forum to be collectively. There are obviously groups of people adjusting their attachment to the forum and the population changes because of these peculiar posters.

Maybe some use of a cards system could work here. That would keep the site admins drom having to do real-time monitoring We would have to do some shaming in announcing who received a card and for what but that seems a better place to me. There was a post deserving of a straight red yesterday, no question.

We are all Evertonians on here or we wouldn't be here.

We all get emotive in our own way.

Just keep it reasonable within the context of the emotion in my opinion.

Non-Engagement is the only way to deal with idiots spouting rubbish and worse. If I was in a pub and some random person was shouting abuse at no particular target, I'd ignore them, until and unless it became aimed at one person in particular.

That person could then decide upon their own reaction and if they needed help in quelling the abuse, I would come to their aid, or call for more help, depending on the situation.

It is the attention that these types want and that is what tends to fuel them, totally ignoring them is a solution, it might not be ideal, but it should be tried by the collective.

If the rants and impoliteness includes loaded terms, which are offensive, flag them up via the emails, the Eds will respond, maybe not on the day of the offence, but respond they will.

There were specific targets of Farkov's abuse posts. The language was detestable and deserves sanction.

Just because someone is being negative and not offering any positivity or rationale should not barr them from a live forum...thats downright childish and sensorship.

On the other hand...being abusive is not on at all, even if the individual does not agree with other posters.

Having a negative opinion is not a crime, I would twist this round and say the regular users of the live forum (I use it occasionally when I can't get to the game) want it run their way and to their perceived standards.

Its an open forum after all.

Cite some examples Dave 20. This isn't some general discussion anymore. If you think what Farkov posted was acceptable let's discuss those particular posts. Throwing terms like childish at what looks to be a justified call for sanction makes you appear insensitive to the abuse taken by fellow Evertonians.

In defense of Victor I think he's not even a glass half empty he's a glass has been totally drained and smashed on the floor. He has been posting for years and don't recall him abusing anyone. But there is a weird phenomenon on here where people moan all week but on match day a majority of posters get really angry if anyone moans.

I watch every game optimistically but if someone says “Keane is going to make a mistake… we will choke etc.” it doesn't upset me as based on our recent history it's an entirely logical assessment. But I think some believe if we have collective positivity on the forum that we can affect the outcome. That may have an impact in the ground but I am not so sure about the LF.

Anyway, Victor you seem like a very depressed Evertonian so it's probably better for your mental health to do something other than reinforce that negativity relentlessly during every game. Find a new hobby that brings some joy to your life

The other guy was just a nasty piece of work and a clear and obvious troll.

Read my post Dale.
I said being abusive is not on. I posted on the forum yesterday and saw Farkov's posts.

I chose to ignore them as imo he's an idiot.

Dave, then what was this “ Having a negative opinion is not a crime, I would twist this round and say the regular users of the live forum (I use it occasionally when I can't get to the game) want it run their way and to their perceived standards.” ? Why write that if the abuse is the case being commented on? There is no grey area containing negative opinions and abuse. Please clarify.

By the way, as a ‘positive' poster I am not advocating getting rid of anyone with a negative take. I may give them some shit if it doesn't seem reasonable but that is just the other side of free speech innit.

So can we have trusted members who can volunteer their time to act as live forum moderators. It would take some technical training and effort but could work.

People can't seriously get upset by negativity of the long-suffering fans of a truly awful football team and even worse wider club that it's part of can they?

Even the regular deliberately negative wind-up merchants who appear on there most weeks are right more often than not these days.

There is a massive difference between negativity and abuse, Dale. Posting something like, "I can't see us winning this, we're rubbish, Dyche doesn't know what he's doing and the players are crap" is acceptable, as is calling out players, even if it is the poster's own opinion.

Personal abuse toward another poster is not acceptable and like I stated they are idiots. Opinions are like arse holes, we all have one. Being abusive is idiotic.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who wrote: "Never argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"?

Dave, so you are no longer supporting the comment on what the regular posters are trying to do? Come on man, clean that up. The people who complained about Farkov did nothing remotely wrong. Put the censorship thing away.

One last point: Some of us have developed a perverse pleasure in seeing the Ian - Soren Show. The clowns from yesterday's forum completely blocked their higher-quality material.

Dale...the man is an idiot and obviously a wind up merchant and fan from another club.

He doesn't deserve the energy spent on discussing him.

Maybe an ignore button on the forum would be the answer, I don't know.

The fact he has not/never been heard of on the website before tells me he's a sad immature individual.

The Live Forum is the best feature of TW, bar none in my opinion.

As a live open forum, you'll always get a couple of jackwagons taking things too far, baiting people, and the (honestly shockingly rare) person who's part of another camp who lives to sling poo-poo.

Jut remember you're dealing with human beings who take their valuable time to do nothing better than log on and sling poo at Evertonians. They need a life and really should be pitied, not confronted.

Victor is NOT a problem. He is negative at times but I've never seen him - not a single time - say anything directly to anyone that was out of line. Not once. He gets some serious "stick" for some of his posts, and I think many should cut him some slack. He's entitled to his opinion. If you don't like it, scroll.

Michael and Lyndon TY for your time in monitoring the Wild West of live fan commentary. And please never get rid of it. It can get a bit ugly, but overall it's a fantastic feature and one I personally adore.

Thank you, Michael & Lyndon.

The Live Forum is my nearest thing to a match day experience these days, full of friends I mostly haven't met yet.

I've always had the attitude that I won't say anything on social media that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

Looking forward to Saturday's Forum even more now!

Paul an Jamie.
Very well said...

The Live Forum at its best was midweek where victory brought us all together with fish puns.

At its worst, it's a cauldron for negative feelings and the validation pessimists seek when their worst predictions come true – much to the disappointment and chagrin of those who still cling to hope.

It's difficult to be constructive sometimes in the heat of the moment.

Paul Smith: 25: “So can we have trusted members who can volunteer their time to act as live forum moderators”.

Let's keep some sort of proportion here. One – ONE – “person” on yesterday's LF was quite frankly disgusting, abject, and sick (he needs help quickly). It was horrible. I was told multiple times that I perpetrated some of the sickest things any human can do to another human.

But the system worked. It worked. (1) other posters rounded on this FR and told him what they thought of him in no uncertain terms (2) people asked Lyndon and Michael to do something about it (3) people messaged Lyndon and Michael to do something about it (4) Lyndon and Michael did something about it (5) said sick FR is now banned from ToffeeWeb and will not be back (6) If he does come back under another name (1)-(5) will fall in place again to take care of the situation.

This is all that can be done. It might take longer than we would like but the alternative is to close down the Live Forum and as Paul Tran, Jamie Crawley and others have movingly posted, the Live Forum matters. It is unfortunate but it is the nature of the LF that a sick mind like the one who hopped on yesterday is able to do so. The “prevention in the first place” is very tricky I understand from what MK has said, so at that point it is the reaction and the reporting that kicks in as happened yesterday with the right result in the end.

The LF does not need a “third dedicated moderator” in my opinion. Let's not make mountains out of molehills. I shudder to think how this knight in shining armour with this job description could launch into a sanitising mission and like good old pious and moral first emperor Augustus work to restore Roman virtues, pieties, and morals. Augustus banned Virgil and Ovid (whose Metamorphosis is the single most numerous source for our bard) for life FFS! There would only be three or four left on the LF after the culling, talking about needlework, baking, Argos catalogues, sensible shoes, the vicar, Emmerdale, and village fetes.

The LF, MK, and LL did their jobs properly and ultimately effectively in this particular nasty and rare situation.

And thanks to MK for this thread which is also serving an excellent purpose.

The LF is a great feature and should be maintained.

Negativity is an issue that can be dealt with a bit of riposte, but that sicko made a personal slander against one of our regulars and that should not be tolerated anywhere.

True to form, MK dealt with it quickly and appropriately once he was aware of it but, with comments like, that I would love to meet him in the street and see how long he stands up.

Yes PF the power might be intoxicating and luckily the Dr Farkovs of this world are few and far between so let's just see how it develops in the future before revisiting – hopefully we won't need to.

The Live Forum is great, imho, btw.

I rarely go on the Live Forum any more as I usually work weekends and can't multitask, ie, watch or listen to the game and type at the same time. 🙄

As many have said, the Live Forum is the closest many of us exiled Evertonians can get to authentic match-day banter.

Don't let the odd wind-up merchant destroy it. Bring back Brady/Brody and his immersion heater problems, I say.

I never realised I was such a cheery fucker after reading Victor's posts. Honestly say I don't mind Victor.

The Live Forum is the highlight of my week. 😁

Thanks Michael for this update.

I was going to comment but I don't think I can add much to Paul Ferry 34's excellent post which sums it up for me.

Perhaps the one thing he missed, though others didn't, was that there is a world of difference, several light years, between Victor Wu's always polite posts, which are so negative that they are an amusing wind-up, and the truly shocking stuff coming from the vermin that has been identified.

Unfortunately there are always people around who will ruin things for others.

I often get examples in my work as a management consultant. For example, you get two people in a firm fiddling their overseas expenses. Instead of dealing with the two perpetrators, a rule gets introduced which affects every overseas traveller (eg, taxi fares are capped, or limits are placed on meal expenses irrespective of costs in the country visited).

Even if banned from the Live Forum, the perpetrators may sometimes slip back under the radar. But long live the Live Forum. Let's not permanently ruin the fun for everyone because one or two keyboard warriors are dead from the neck up.

Tony,

That is what is known as the rule of the lowest common denominator and it is widespread in our world today, if not endemic.

No argument from me there, Mark.

Hi Mark (40),

I did point out that there was only one "culprit" but what you say is fair. The difference between Victor Wu and FR is that Victor is not, in the word of the moderators, "abusive".

Victor might leave me (and others, I think) with my hands up in the air in despair at his boring (for me) parrot-like negativity but he is not "abusive". He has not broken any rules.

I have sat and stood around "Victors" too many times to count at The Old Lady and they do not get turfed out of the ground, even though they drive others around them potty.

I have a season ticket so go to the home games but, because I don't want to use dodgy online feeds, my away game regime was to listen to live commentary on Radio Merseyside whilst browsing the Live Forum.

I have to say I stopped contributing to the Live Forum as it was seriously depressing me and dragging me in to too much negativity. Performances were generally much better than you would have gathered by the comments on the Live Forum – including my own – so I decided not to participate as I once did.

However, what is clear is that there is a great deal of camaraderie on the Live Forum and it is a valuable place to go to with people who, despite sometimes having different opinions, all want the same thing at the end of the day.

I have not seen the comments made on Saturday but anyone who stoops to abuse others on this forum are deeply sick and not welcome. Unfortunately trolling like this is difficult to stop – take a look at the comments section of the BBC Sports website to illustrate that.

Without running the risk of some people going totally Snowflake, like Michael says - you have to report it.

But also; remember the basic rule - don't (however much you might - just once - want to) feed the troll.

Julian @ 10; Jamie @ 30; Hear, hear.

And full thanks to Michael & Lyndon for making it so.

Michael, Lyndon, thanks so much for your actions.

Yesterday was an extremely frustrating time on the Live Forum – the crap football action was exacerbated by that prat and his stupid actions...

On reflection there was only one problem person on the LF.

Victor, on the other hand, is annoying with his predictions of doom, and although he was right this time, he was wrong last week, but he is entitled to his view.

I have defended Ian Edwards during last season and it is hardly surprising that we are all more pessimistic after the last few seasons.

We do need free speech and we mustn't let the odd twat like Farkov ruin a special (if not perfect) forum.

It does tend to police itself when folk put up the score the wrong way round or the odd lemon seeks to be funny by silly "Yes" or "Get-in" comments, when no goal has been scored.

Even the fish puns have been slagged-off in the past.

I don't know what Victor was saying on Saturday as it was bad enough just watching it. There were enough negative comments from everyone watching the bloody thing!

Mind you, say what you want about Victor – he's actually been right more than any of us this season!!

I never look at the Live Forum because I'm at the game or watching it.

Surely Farkov can't be a real name, especially if you say it with a southern accent.

I'm late to commenting on this. I don't monitor the Live Forum during games because I'm busy covering them for the site but I was obviously made aware of the issue with "Farkov" after the match had finished. He has been banned, obviously.

There is a probationary period for new users to contribute to the site but our red interloper must have played the long game and been subscribed for a while.

Regarding Victor, negativity is not a banning offence. It may be irritating but it's not a contravention of the rules. As many others have said above, just ignore him if he gets your back up. However, I would say to Victor if he's reading this that it might be worthwhile toning it down out of respect to your fellow Blues.

Deborah (54): I believe that was the point of his *ahem* hilarious monicker.

#63 Lyndon, as difficult and uncomfortable as it might be, I don't know how the abuse and harassment that Paul Ferry received last Saturday isn't a Police matter. It was targeted harassment which is a crime in the UK and rightly so.

Paul Ferry - I hope you're not letting the coward get to you.

Gareth. I think the police have a bit more urgent things to be bothered about.