Euros 2024 — Day 4

What the hell Ukraine? Just looked at score.

Just a quick question open for debate.

It's always bugged me. Why don' England have their own national anthem?

They use the UK one.

Danny, good question...

Here's another

Why does England have St. George as their patron Saint?
Seems we share him a with a few places/countries.

I'm relieved to see Myko was on the Ukraine bench... proves he doesn't have an Achilles injury.

Also relieved to see he STAYED on the Ukraine bench. The way he went down the other day, I hope he doesn't play one more minute in this tournament.

Didn't wake up early to watch the game, but I'll check out the replay. Not often you see a team have 72% possession and lose 3-0.

Ian (3), I thought St. George was sacked as a saint a few years ago because he never existed and neither did the dragons he was supposed to have slain!

Dave

He was demoted to a "local saint" by the Vatican in 1969. It is the dragon that didn't exist or according to UK Heritage society "it is highly unlikely that he ever fought a dragon."

Ian

Edward III made George our patron saint as he was a fan of his legend after the crusades. Previously St Edmund was our patron saint.

Did St George ever make it to England :)

Also Mike, re possession stats, I like the one where Man City had 71% possession against us and lost 4 nil. Think it was Pep Guardiola's first Goodison experience.

MoM from Onana today, add a few million to his price !!

Ian, England share St George with several countries.

Born in modern day Turkey and died in what is now Israel. Never visited England.

Lukaku should have scored then. Poor touch. He's looking chunky.

It's not even a national anthem Danny, it's about a monarch not a country compared with say Italy and the unbeatable La Marsellaise and just about every other country on this planet.

Here's another random thought.

I wonder what language the Belgium team communicate in?

Dutch or French?

Flemish.

Flemish Danny.

Danny
For me the little guy no22 Lobotka is running the show in the midfield so far for Slovakia
Outshining Onana and De brutne so far

I know it's referred to as Flemish, but it is Dutch. A Dutch dialect.

A bit like Geordie or Glaswegian. It' still English.

I've never really seen the point in Belgium. It is divided right down the middle.

The north is Dutch in culture and language, the south French.

I'd have both given to the Netherlands and France.

Pete, yes, he's looking good. Onana is having one of his typically strolls in the park.

He probably go and score now!

You missed out the German area to the east Danny. It' was Britain and France who were the leading voices in Belgian independence in 1830.

Lukaku fucks up again.

I know internationals are usually a bit slower than most premier games but the way Onana is playing I think we may be offered a few million less than a few million more for him.

He plays most games like he his playing a pre season game, imo Danny.

1-1

Maybe not.

Nope. Lukaku was off.

He ddi pretty well there Bill

Excellent goal disallowed. Brilliant from Onana and lukaku strays

Sorry, I mean it's excellent the goal was disallowed!!!!

I can't stand the current offside rule. It is ridiculous.

Paul, I speak German relatively well, but there are some areas, particularly in the south, Austria, Switzerland and Sud Tirol (South Tyrol) in northern Italy, a German speaking region where I go Ski-ing. I struggle in those places. Munchen is fine as most speak standard German or English.

I am fluent in Latin and Esperanto - come on Slovakia, my old PhD supervisor is married to Eva, a Slovak.

Give us back Südschleswig (Sydslesvig) ha ha ha,

Getting a bit niggly now.

Looking at the 6ft plus players rolling around, they need to watch footage of 5"5 Rob Burrows.

Now now, Schleswig-Holstein is rightly German after the 1940 invasion.

Impressive that Paul.

I've visited Bratislava. Beautiful city. I called it mini Prague without the stag parties.

Onana just embarrassed himself. He hardly got touched. There must be a sniper in the stadium the way he went down!

You're right Bill, Onana is one-paced. Slovakia hanging in there and I do like the underdogs.
As I say the Slovakia nos 22 and 8 would be great in our midfield

Yes, Bratislava is beautiful Danny and the Tatra mountains towards Poland. Yep, Onana has been poor, hasn't he - I was always told he played better for Belgo but not today and I'm not sure I believe it anyway. We have to get rid of him while we can still get a decent profit. I can't think of his last good game for us.

Remember when Slovakia knocked Italy out of the 2010 wc and they had that wacky goalie who ended up joining Everton.

Danny, anything you haven't done, can't do or haven't been, stop bigging your self up for gods sake, please try to be a bit more humble.

Jan Mucha?

The Belgium - Slovakia game is a good old fashioned game.

Some players in the Slovak team, standing out.

Let's see if they can keep up this effort and see a big shock result.

Onana not exactly putting himself in the shop window here.

fecking 86th minute shite

Hahaha Get in!

Get in where

Just not the Belgians day.

I do like that Slovakian central midfielder.

This game is more evidence of the revolution in football -- the team with less of the ball wins.

It's called the Dyche Doctrine.

The Best game Ive watched so far in this competition.
Well done Slovakia!

Paul

Yeah that was the one. Mucha. I think he was relegated to just playing league cup games for us.

Kieran and PF, wasn't he busted for drunk driving?

Enjoyed that. Well played and well deserved Slovakia.

Belgium's loss mean better chance of going out early means a few days to sort out Onana's sale to someone before 30/6.

Good Result!

Yep KK just two appearances, I looked him up.

Well done Slovakia! Brilliant result and performance. Get on the pilsner.

We should be looking at a couple of those midfielders. The price might be right Cilla.

How poor was Onana but also KDB.

Austria have a pretty bad record against France going back to the late 18th century. Can they cause a real upset?

I think it was driving while banned Mike G.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2293225/Everton-keeper-Jan-Mucha-ordered-250-hours-unpaid-work-driving-banned-didnt-know-doesnt-read-post.html

Slovakia brilliant and Lobotka MOM.
Like you Danny always had a soft spot for Bratislava lovely people and footy mad.
I also thought Serbia were unlucky and apart from Bellingham, Englands prima donnas Foden Saka Trent Stones etc didn't like the tough tackling Serbians who played old fashioned hard English football.

Phil #45 haha, excellent perspective!

Pete #49, Daniel Harris of the Guardian described Foden as "wandering about like a monk at a rave"... hilarious and fully accurate.

Foden looks lost to me and a bit jaded and as for Kane...???

England have no chance of winning this, sitting deep and slacking off in the second half doesn't bode well against the real top sides in this tournament.

Billy

The problem with Kane is that for ages with club and country he has taken to playing like Roy of the Rovers, dropping deep and creating his own chances or chances for others. Now suddenly, Southgate is trying to use him as Bayern do as a striker but there is no supply line for him to get on the end of anything. As for Foden, ordinarily he'd have to raise his game as the likes of Rashford, Sterling, Grealish, Madison etc are waiting in the wings. But since Southgate ditched the lot he pretty much is assured of his spot.

Just noted with amusement that I have never heard of anybody in the Austrian 11 except Sabitzer.

Mike

Yeah I just discovered David Alaba is injured. He is usually their star man.

Spot on Keiran... Germany for me to win this on home soil,got money them too!

A clear indictment of how rubbish these tv pundits are; Garry Neville has just said that Southgate is probably the best English manager we've had for the last 60-70 years. Gareth fucking Southgate? Better than Ramsey? Sir Bobby? El Tel? Even Glen Hoddle? Are these idiots really paid to come out with this shite?

Southgate was a bang average player and even worse as a manager.

Colin, more from Harris in the Guardian:

Trent Alexander-Arnold was asked to learn a central position that isn't his on the job at a major tournament, because every now and again he might hit a nice pass or shot. Southgate's failure to grasp that the best midfielders are the best short passers, not the best long passers, is no surprise given his background and, shrewd operator that he is, he watched his players toil and shrink, second-best to the team ranked 33 in the world, for a mere 40 minutes before making a change.

Then, instead of accentuating the chasmic talent imbalance between the squads, he delved deep into his experience of managerial legends such as Alan Smith, Howard Wilkinson and Steve McClaren, eventually removing the Liverpudlian to allow his least talented midfielder to spoil – as Kevin Keegan once did with him, to such overwhelming success. The result was a mess so complete that even Erik ten Hag felt empowered to laugh at it on television.

Southgate believes he is a much smarter operator than he is. As a consequence he's trying some sophisticated relationship between Foden, Bellingham and Tripper and it's not going to work. Not because it's a bad idea, but because he's a limited coach.

Southgate may even be better off using more limited players but in a more conventional set up. Last night, I am very confident a Palace-style left flank of Mitchell and Eze would have caused Serbia no end of problems (in the same way they were struggling with our fairly conventional right flank of Walker and Saka). Gordon too would have been a good bet to stretch the play on the left and have someone to run in behind.

This would have helped Kane too, who looked tragically slow and isolated at time without pace around him to create space and stretch the play.

Mike, I don't think I've disliked an English manager so much since the days of Sven boring Erickson. We'll never win anything with Southgate.

Hopefully people take notice of Harris, and his opinion that the best midfielders, are the ones that can pass the ball short, and we might just get rid of Onana, Mike!

You certainly fucking ask the toughest bastard questions Colin. Is Southgate worse as a manager or as a player?

I couldn't stand Southgate as a player. With Andy Sinton and the unfathomably shite Carlton Palmer (almost as embarrassing as Graham Taylor in that documentary with his oh so hilarious routine with Guzzling Gazza), he was a metaphor for mediocrity and so fucking ugly and nothing - zilch - cool about him, who married a sensible woman wearing sensible shoes and hemlines and is tops at baking, crocheting, ironing, and saw humping with Gareth as a necessary chore.

Colin, I'm no huge fan of Southgate as a manager, but he was a very good player. Bang average is a bit harsh.

Colin, didn't the players love him? I seem to remember Beckham et al actually threaten to strike when the England fans and media wanted him sacked.

Kieran (7) St. Edmund was joint patron Saint of England with Edward the Confessor, both were kings- - seems strange to me that a King could be a saint, although Edward had a couple of miracles to his name. Sean Dyche could be in the running to become a saint if he produces another miracle, his first was keeping Everton up last season, if he sells Onana for £60M or more — Saint Sean it is and I doubt he's even a Catholic, so there's his third miracle!

Dave A (64):

"Bruce Dyer: I used to argue with Sean Dyche about faith – he's an atheist.

The former Crystal Palace striker's career went off the rails because of drink and drugs, but he has found contentment in his new life as a church pastor".

Didn't Charlemagne kick off the whole emperor/saint/king thing?

There has to be some sympathy for Southgate and many of the other England managers who have preceded him.

Ramsey was brilliant. Yes, why did he play Mullery and never Kendall. Probably both deserved to be in the side but he did what he wanted and told the press to go away.

Then it was Robson and Wilkins. Finally one got injured and the other sent off and Robson could get rid of the press' favourites and play Reidy. If only he could have got neared to Diego he would have chopped him down and we would have won it.

Then we had years of Gerrard and Lampard. We had years of Shilton and Clemence. Play one and the press clamour for the other.

And now we have everyone saying he has to play Foden, had to play Arnold. Not allowed to play the best team and 11 players who play the best in that system. Has to play the press' favourites, fail and then if it is not too late play the right players. But if they they fail, it is because he did not use the press' favourites.

Dave #64, that £60M will be a Kev miracle, not a Sean one... Thelwell's in charge of the selling/buying/borrowing process.

Sean's third miracle will be keeping us up with Holocaust Holgate back in the club.

How in the world did Austria not score there?

And how is it not a corner?

How was that not a corner; that was a goal if the keeper did not touch it?

Horror show by Werber there. didn't he play for Leeds once?

This referee is a disgrace. Giving everything for France.

Mike. That's quite the nickname for Holgate... guess you're about the only one on TW that can get away with that particular one.

I found it amusing, but I am not really sure why.

fucking referee did it again; that was obviously Austrian ball, what the feck is going on

Mike (68), as long as you agree that it will be miracle I don't care who gets the honour.
Regarding Holgate if we don't sell him, which seems likely, and Dyche plays him, which seems unlikely, then he'll perform another miracle or maybe the sack!

Paul (65), If Dyche is an atheist then it will be a real miracle if he gets a sainthood, not sure where it all started Paul regarding emperor/ king / saint thing but any of them classed as a saint doesn't seem to fit my idea of a saint, who to me, has to be entirely humble and goes about his work and never even thinks about the good things he does.

By the way, the Euros and the World Cup are often won by teams that start off their first match looking like shite. England have ticked that box beautifully.

Dave A... I agree. I propose a shrine to Saint Carsley.

Paul 61, I couldn't have said it better.

Mike G, that was Ericsson's biggest fault ie he always played his favourites even if they were injured or out of form and he let the wags choose the tactics and formations plus, he was shagging a lady boy and Ulrika whatshername at the same time.

Phil 66, excellent post. Never a truer word spoken.

One last thing, Mike. He continuously chose Darius Vassel who was one of the worst players to ever wear a football shirt. I will even go as far to say he was worse than Iwobi and that's saying something.

Duncan #73, heh-heh, yeah, I suppose you're right... I was applying the small "h" dictionary definition (disaster, catastrophe, above-the-knee studs-up tackler), not the big "H" definition.

Colin #77, I never thought I'd see you write the phrase "worse than Iwobi"... I don't even remember Vassell but I'll take your word for it.

Dave A, it all got very political at times, didn't it? Those Borgia/Medici papacies commercialised/politicised sainthoods etc.

Like you, I think of the likes of Francis of Assisi or Theresa of Avalon when I think of saints. That's what the nuns, monks, and priests taught me.

Mind you, you need the patience of a saint to put up with this complete idiot Ian Darke and we have Clattenburg too.

PF, and Landon effing Donovan. Worst broadcast combo since O.J. Simpson and Joe Namath on Monday Night Football.

Paul/Mike

Ian Darke is better than the woman the other day who said "Italy have never cared about world cups they're all about European championships." But yes they have assembled a motley crew of useless commentators and pundits including Alexei Lalas of course, and Chielini who might be a good pundit in a language he can speak really well

Didn't Vassel and David Batty miss penalties in a shoot out and we got knocked out?

Phil, I think Vassel was once arrested for impersonating a footballer.

Phil

Vassell missed in 2004 Euros, Batty missed in 98.

Christina Unkel. Analyst on ITV of Referee decisions. Biggest Joke Ever. Talking absolute shite.

Vassel, jeez, I'd forgtten all about him. Didn't he play for Villa?

I'm glad you said it MG, Landon is awful isn't he - I normally listen to. the bbc 5live commentary but has not been up last 2 days. Darke is truly awful. We did get Alistair Bruce Ball for a couple of games and that was decent.

Yep KK, horrific panels

Vassel, Heskey, Batty, Anderton, Upson etc… England have had some shite players over the years.

Carlton Palmer was the true bottomless pit of shite Colin. How the fuck did he get a career in footy, never mind get 18 caps.

Talking of crap players I just realized Cenk Tosun is in the Turkey squad.

Good shout, Paul. Jay Boothroyd and Zat Knight also come to mind.

Simon, it must be the ITV venue. Unkel is also the ref expert on CBS with the heartstopping Kate Abdo, and she's pretty good. Regularly lets the air out of Carragher and his assertions on refereeing.

Paul (79) Yes I'd stir clear of a lot of those type of saints but a lot of saints led remarkable lives and were true saints like the Polish priest in World War Two, can't think of his name at the moment, who gave up his life to let another prisoner of war go free.

In the case of the pundits, who mostly prostitute themselves for the job, I usually have the mute control on rather than get frustrated or irritated by them.

Come on, Austria. Bounce one in. How sick will it be if that clanger of an own goal is the difference.

Saint Maximilian Kolbe Dave.

Forgot one cap wonder, Ryan Shawcross. Had an absolute nightmare against Sweden (?) and was never seen again.

Paul (94), Yes that the gentleman, there is a film about his life. When I said he gave up his life for another man go free I meant he swapped places with him, he was put in a cell with other prisoners and starved to death and the other man kept his life but was still subjected to the terrible crimes the Germans committed in those death camps. He eventually got free and lived a very long life always praising Maximilian Kole for his act of bravery.

here are a few - Mike Ricketts, Zat Knight, Geoff Thomas, Keith Curle, Brian Deane, Steve fucking Guppy, erm Franny Jeffers

Robert @ 58 says -

Southgate believes he is a much smarter operator than he is

This is exactly what the USA's problem is with our coach, Berhalter.

I think our team could actually win the Copa, but at some point Berhalter will try to out-think the room and we'll lose a game we shoulda won!

I think the USA is on the cusp of a "Golden Generation" and we so desperately need a new coach.

A LOT of similarities between England and the USA in my opinion.

Michael / Lyndon -

Would you fine folks in charge mind at all if We discuss the Copa when it starts on these UEFA threads? I'd only post when the Euros are over and the Copa starts into our evening hours, not during Euro contests.

It might be only Mike, Dale, and James Flynn contributing, but honestly most of my American friends are idiots when it comes to footy, and it would be nice to have some fellow Americans to chat with when the tourney starts.

If it's a hard no, just shout. I won't post about it But it would be nice, and a Copa independent thread might not get a ton of traction?

Forget never seen again Colin, or one cap wonders, how the hell did Heskey get 62 caps.

How many caps did Woodgate get? Seemed like he was the second coming of Baresi or something, possibly melted down in Spain, and then never heard from again.

Some fascinating and interesting comment on this thread.

I think it's great how we with between Everton, football in general.

Talking of the most evil people in modern history, I give you Reinhard Heydrich, the orchestra and planner for the "final solution".

I could probably give you a few kopites, but I won't go there. Fixtures out today, so it will be about Everton.

How are Georgia in the Euros? I've always questioned why Israeli teams compete. Nothing political, they just aren't in Europe.

Georgia is definitely in Europe Danny.

For those with time on their hands here's a list of England's one cap wonders. Some names on there.

Link

On another note, I was a 2 cap wonder for the England FA Colts XI aged 17.

First appearance, played a blinder of a game as a left back. Described as having the sweetest left foot seen in years.

Second appearance, got subbed at half-time. Described as one of the worst performances seen by anyone, especially by the scouts brought into see me after my first performance.

Nil nil when I went off, ended up losing 1 nil. Should have kept me on, if only for comedy value.

Shortly after, I was retired from International football.

Georgia is both in Europe and Asia

Heading to Georgia this morning for my brother's wedding. He's probably chosen the best time to go there. :)

Don't agree with Georgia being in Europe. Like Israel. It's in Asia.

Interestingly, parts of Georgia are still occupied by Russia since their invasion in 2008, which despite the outrage over Ukraine, we gave a good ignoring to and still do.

Australia in the Eurovision Song Contest? Honestly.