Drab derby stained by Young's dismissal and a penalty gift from Keane

Now to the set-up.

If it looks like Young's getting the runaround, then Patterson's there to come in. Dyche might even change it to 5 at the back as an alternative, if that's the case.

I'm glad, though, he's kept the same team.

The work of Garner and McNeil in covering is vital to Everton's defensive set up so let's hope it is solid today.

Didn't even need to wait very long.

There's a reason why no one else wanted him and Villa didn't give him a new contract. I bit my tounge since.

Absolute weak link Patterson must be so poor in training but Young gave the ref an easy decision. Weak link and past it. Hang on, boys, and dig in.

I'd get seven men behind the ball and keep two players up, which means that Liverpool will either take a chance and only play with two defenders or lose the extra man, because they will need to keep three back.

They have only really troubled us with the fast counter attack, or when we are careless with the final pass, so play deep and keep two players up to give them something to think about

Defensively we just are what we are. We drop in, we block, we challenge. They'll need something decent to break us down and at some point you'd think they'll get it.

In attack we're already looking like needing a mistake. Our quality with the ball at feet is very poor. Doucoure is working hard but jeez he's terrible technically.

Corners have been terrible. What happened to the corners we were giving everyone a problem with? Hang it to the far post 10 yards out. We're just gifting it to Allison in spots where he just has to come for it.

Ashley Young isn't even worth talking about. First yellow was soft considering what Tsimikas got away with. But once he's on a yellow he was in all sorts of trouble... and you could absolutely see it coming.

As for the refereeing, he rightly booked Young the first time but for the second he barely touched the player which was similar to Tarkowski's booking but Tsimikas committed fouls three times that were worse than either of our yellow cards and gets nothing.

If we are going to get anything from this, we have, again, to get more men forward when we attack, and show some sort of know-how or plan but my money would be on Dyche defending the draw.

Do not be surprised if we hold out for 70 minutes before the official sees fit to send another of our players off.

Free hit now for us, anything is a bonus.

They signed Mac Allister.

And they still needed the referee to win it.

So you do have issues with Young getting 2 yellows because the ref isn't being consistent. It's not really about what we think merits a card, it's about the ref applying their interpretation evenly.

Young is a fucking idiot.
Keane is a fucking idiot.

And I blame fucking Calvert-Lewin for squandering the easiest chance of the game.

Bitter? You bet.

Undone by Young and Keane.

Not helped by Calamity Keane.

Too disgusted to even think about the game or any failings of our players as they battled well. They would have ground out a result if it had been a fair game with the same rules applied to both sides, but shamefully it wasn't.

But you can't play football without actually playing football. You have to control and pass the football even just a few times in a game. We don't, or can't. It goes beyond it being a tough game, it's just careless. McNeil can do it, but he was sacrificed early. A decision I wouldn't have made.

Most disappointing was that at 1-0 down we didn't have any kind of idea of how we might get something out of a game we weren't really in. It took us to the 90th minute to figure out that when the ball gets to Pickford you immediately get two or three forward and setup for a knock down. We were not playing through Liverpool.

On the rare occasions we had the ball in their half, there wasn't the basic common sense to try to look after it and give the midfielders a chance to join in. We just belted it away.

Not exactly the game to judge where we're at. But I think there were issues there that have been consistent throughout this season.

Keane will cop loads on here. He shouldn't have had his arm out. But the selection of Young was the issue that resulted in him being there. It has continued to be unfathomable.

To be honest, I was shocked they didn't get the penalty a minute or so before the handball.

The only halftime substitutions he needed to make were Patterson on for either McNeil or Harrison, probably the latter, but no, he has to go all defence with no attacking outlet.

I don't entirely blame Keane for the penalty, as neither did the Ref originally and what was he watching that he needed a second look, but why did he have his arm as far forward as he did?

But we were never going to offer any attacking threat after those subs and Beto for DCL seemed to be because it was the hour mark while there seemed little point in Chermiti and Danjuma as there was no way to get anything going other than a long hoof.

And I look forward to Herr Klopp asking why one of his players wasn't sent off for a second yellow but hypocrites are what they are.

They created nothing. Why are the Redshite celebrating? They didn't win anything, they were gifted the result.

Shame on you! Shame on you!

Dean, no lad, just no.

It wasn't a game to watch, Young is not good enough to start Premier League games, the split-second lag in his timing is so evident in all he does.

Two self-inflicted stuff-ups by the two most experienced players. We didn't deserve that result.

As for the penalty overturn, why Michael Keane has his arm out like that is pretty hard to comprehend – but it looked to me that it brushed off his knee first before hitting his hand – but nobody seems to have mentioned it so perhaps I'm wrong.

Some positive individual performances. I thought Doucouré and Onana were very good, and Mykolenko had one of his best games for us and kept Salah completely quiet. But I thought Garner was poor with the ball, and Harrison and McNeil were very isolated.

Probably harsh to say this now but what Chermiti offers at this stage is very hard to see. The breakaway for the second goal came about because he gets the ball stuck under his feet – and it looked like he'd never seen a football before. He also ran so far offside a couple of times it was embarrassing.

His 31% win rate at Brighton or the complete mess he made of his big break at Chelsea?

Put it behind us as some kind of weird imaginary fixture and move on. Without oil money, the gap is too big, losing to title contenders is almost a guarantee 9 times out of 10.

Bollocks to 'em.

Young has been poor defensively every game. Calvert-Lewin doesn't lead the line well in games like this, he was anonymous and Garner had a bit of an off-day.

Otherwise, we defended quite well but the referee gave them everything, us nothing.

To say I hate them is an understatement. Loath, Despise, Detest, Abhor – there's not enough words to describe my feelings about them.

In the present climate, the handball was always going to be a penalty as the arm was outstretched in an unnatural position.

My anger is directed to the Ref for failing to book Tsimikas and not sending off Konate.

I have even more anger towards Dyche. The half-time subs killed us. He should have just brought Patterson on for Harrison. We looked comfortable even with 10 men up to half-time but the subs just killed any attacking impetus we had as it left us defending with an isolated forward. There was no way we would hang on for 45 minutes.

The ref was crap but it was those two players who lost the game for us.

The second goal was irrelevant as, if it wasn't for the penalty, we wouldn't have been caught on the counter.

At least Patterson will definitely play next week, small mercies and that.

Ref was a disgrace, you can blame Dyche, Young and Keane's handball, but for me Pawson was the deciding factor.

I said it at half-time: Harrison for Patterson made sense, but taking off McNeil was the wrong option.

At some point, we'll have to acknowledge that we lack quality so badly that we're going to have to play some players who can control a ball over some of our more limited triers. Garner (who had a particularly poor game today) in for the limited Gueye is a start.

Young and Mykolenko (who was defensively great today) also need to go. You can't play with fullbacks who offer nothing when they touch the ball. And Doucoure really needs to go. His occasional goals don't justify the dysfunctional element he brings to the team.

I agree with the sentiment that Konate should have been sent off. It was pretty obvious. And that Tsimikas should have been booked after his third, pretty blatant, foul in 20 minutes. But I can't defend Young or Keane except to say that they don't select themselves.

I wasn't surprised they were exposed. Was anyone? Besides Dyche.

I thought Doucourie worked hard and did some good stuff, but he is amazingly wasteful with the ball at times.

Onana looks considerably more mature than his years. He and Branthwaite will be much sought-after assets in due course.

The first Young yellow was unbelievable, and while the second was definitely a foul, it was never a yellow. Down to 10 men and when Pawson shat out of giving Konate a second yellow, it was game over.

The Keane penalty, if you see it in real time, I don't think anyone would have gotten their hand out of the way. I don't want to talk about anything else about the game at the moment. Just sickening….

The ref wasn't far away and knew that it wasn't intentional, but football is continually reinventing itself. Even though it was quite natural for a referee of Pawson's experience to initially wave the penalty away, football has got another layer now to help these refs when they get their initial decision wrong!

I think this is something that a few of us predicted, right after Spurs beat Liverpool, in a game full of controversy, that never suited our opponents today.

We are getting better but lacked quality in key moments, and were also very naive, with a lack of defensive discipline or is it a lack of collective defensive awareness, which Liverpool constantly exploited and resulted in them scoring a second goal.

Within 5 mins of the 2nd half, it was obvious we had no outball. That strategy so rarely works.

Always in with a shout in these games but up in smoke thanks to stupidity of Young who should know better.

Always hard to see Everton holding out once they lost a player – especially with that prick Salah on their team. What a bargain he turned out to be after Chelsea rejected him.

Back to the drawing board but at least Young will miss the next game.

I agree, taking off McNeil was a mistake. Patterson .on for Harrison was right. Actually, Patterson should have played rather than Young. Young was playing at a rate he was not going to keep up to.

Dyche just panicked, always needed to keep a threat going forward which would have helped Beto when he came on. Calvert-Lewin missed a great chance, but positionally other than that was off the play. The slower Van Dijk was able to get in front of him getting the ball.

But we do need another 8 wins, and with each game that passes it gets harder to see where they are going to come from.

West Ham away might be just the right match for us. Sit back and hit them on the counter.

“Doucoure is all right foot and has two left feet.”

So he's a mutant with three feet? No wonder we paid so much for him.

Gordon should have had one or two penalties two seasons ago at Anfield and today should it have been 10 v 10.

However, this run of awful and biased refereeing continues unsanctioned, season after season after season. It's not fun, it's not fair and it makes for a stain on the Premier League.

Except no one gives a damn because it's only shitty little Everton who are bitter and crap.

We need a PR department and need to demand an explanation and apology!!!

When I saw McNeil was being substituted, I was surprised. When I saw who was coming on in his place, I expected the worst…

Why was Keane's hand in such a forward position? Most sensible defenders put their arms behind their backs on these occasions but Keane is fuckin' Keane, not as in eager but stupid, and we've still got him for this season and next.

Calvert-Lewin was poor today, Mylenko possibly our best player today, was substituted while the three attacking players brought on never made a blind bit of difference.

We might have got a draw with 11 players, Liverpool were not creating any chances and Pickford only had one worthwhile shot to save all afternoon.

Klopp was delighted to swap the player who should have walked immediately he realised he was staying on, courtesy of another very poor referee — Poorson.

What bothered me was the ref initially didn't look like he was booking Young for the second yellow, but then chatted in his mic and gave the card. Who the hell is making the on-field decisions? It appeared he was told to bring out the 2nd yellow.

I'm not going to criticise Keane, he adopted a stance any defender would have taken up, as was confirmed by Jagielka and Ferdinand.

The laws of the game are totally daft in this respect. It's impossible for any defender to defend in that position if he's got to pull his arm behind his back as he sets up to defend. It's complete nonsense.

I think what Ernie is saying is that Doucouré has a left foot at the bottom of his right leg – and I'm inclined to agree with him.

The inconsistency of referees is becoming an embarrassment, not just between different ref's interpretation of situations, but also the same ref in the same game coming to different results.

Konate, quite correctly, gets a red. It's 10 v 10 and a totally different game. Up to then, Liverpool never looked like scoring from open play.

It's a one-dimensional game and it's a terrible game for neutrals with usually only one outcome..

Dyche threw the game at half-time with those bizarre substitutions, you can't expect to play the best part of an hour just kicking the ball out of your own penalty area.

It's nothing new in the Merseyside derby ,though, so I can't just point the finger at Dyche, this has been Everton for 20 years in derbies.

Young has proved over the last few games if he can play for over 10 minutes without getting booked, he will be okay; unfortunately, he can't.

There will now be more calls for Dyche to be sacked but who will replace him? Potter's name keeps getting mentioned but didn't it take him about 5 seasons before he finally got the type of players that started to make Brighton successful?

The problem is, you play with what you have, and who can get more out of what we have than Dyche?

There is a mid-table team there and I don't believe that Dyche is the answer but then who is?

Defence can keep you the points but you need goals to earn them, and despite bringing in forwards in the transfer window, we can't score.

Michael Keane for some reason can't keep his hands by his side in the box. How many penalties has he conceded at this point? Hopefully there is no more than this season left on his contract.

Aside from that, made them ordinary for that game, and we don't look like a side that will be in a relegation battle.

Onana looked like a proper player today. Probably the first time I have thought that since he arrived. Just can't shoot.

I stopped watching the derby at their place around 2012 and only attend the Goodison derby, because I've paid for the privilege. A sporting contest it is not and hasn't been for ages.

Why so many believed today would turn out differently to most of the past encounters baffles me, not just the loss, but the manner of the loss, is almost written in the script, regardless of how Everton perform or the tactics that they employ.

It's out of the way now, and hopefully our paths won't cross in any of the cup competitions. Concentrate on West Ham next week and put this defeat in the bin.

This team probably would be mid-table, I agree, if we had Moyes and Irvine still here. Sadly, Dyche and these coaches do seem tactically very limited.

You'll get a certain amount of points, enough to just about avoid the drop, I think, and playing in a certain type of way, but I doubt it'll ever be enough to satisfy the punters.

When you run, your arms are in front of you. Having your arms behind your back is not a natural position.

"The inconsistency of referees is becoming an embarrassment,"

Really? I think they're cleverly corrupt. I'd love to see a split screen for Young's 1st yellow and Tsimikas's non-yellow against Harrison, and Young's 2nd yellow and Konaté's non-yellow. IMO they referee the game 50/50 until it comes to business end, where they'll claim swings and roundabouts; except the big 6 get all the joyrides.

Now you could argue, he wasn't going to give them a stonewall penalty, but here's the conspiracy theory. He did that in the knowledge that it would be sent upstairs and the decision would be overturned, but it goes in his plus column that he isn't a corrupt referee.

I'm sick of it and it's beginning to turn me off the game. The FA has become the new Politburo; we never make mistakes, and this will carry on til there's collective action by the clubs.

I was arguing over the sending-off at half-time with one Red, and he said everyone in football except Everton fans would not have had an issue with the sending off. He said I was being insulting because, after he said Young had always been a crying cunt, I said he would have fitted in well playing for Liverpool.

I predicted a second-half penalty, and never received a reply after I said I thought Pawson had used common sense when he decided not to send off Kanoute.

The saddest thing about today (for me) is not the result, but the realisation that a game I used to live for (genuinely live for) is littered with corruption (if not corruption, then at least sheer incompetence).

Players now spend more time appealing for everything, and trying to gain every advantage imaginable, and also find it very easy cheating their fellow pros.

The hope that Beto was going to make a difference was unfounded. And who decided to waste money on Chermiti?

We still have no one as backup when Calvert-Lewin doesn't turn up, which is quite often. We're nowhere near competing on a regular basis against any competent team.

And Dyche doesn't have the answer. Long season ahead.

It was a good contest until the sending off. For him to then not send Konate off was absolutely disgusting and obvious bias.

I was having banter messages with a Red on the phone during the game. As the second half progressed, he was getting nervous and saying this will be nil nil. I said, fear not, this Homer ref will give you a soft pen soon. Sadly I was right.

What chance do we have when the match is not officiated in an even-handed way? UTFT. FTRS.

I said to my lad before the game that we'd lose at least one player. It's almost scripted the shithousery, cowardly displays by incompetent, bent refs.

But there's now a team in the making so let's not be too disheartened.

I was utterly dumbfounded when I discovered the changes made at half-time. What support I had for Dyche evaporated instantly. Dinosaur thinking and tactics.

It's not about the players he put on the pitch (whatever your views… oh, Keane maybe). It's all about a witless manager who thinks that the tactics he was about to employ could lead to anything but defeat. Shameful.

My only gripe with Dyche is that I sometimes don't feel he is pragmatic enough in the sense that his Everton teams don't often defend collectively (the whole team).

I can still remember Liverpool going down to ten men in the first half during one Merseyside derby at Anfield, although the tactics of Moyes never got us far that day, because we still ended up losing the game.

Everton are definitely improving, imo, although we still need a few better players to compete against the best teams.

Barry H, I'd love our paths to cross in one of the cups this season, mate, but only if we can get a home draw. Beat Burnley and get Liverpool, that'd do me!

However, those calling for Patterson should think twice, he looks defensively weak and as prone to a mistake as Keane. Dyche obviously prefers Young as the lesser of two evils. Maybe Patterson will improve with more coaching.

Graham Potter for manager? He looked like he couldn't tie his shoelaces at Chelsea. Imagine him in the ongoing crisis of Everton? No thanks.

Today is one game, same old, same old in the derby. Dodgy ref, seen it all before. Keep the faith.

It's true that the other lot had a man disadvantage in a home derby game in March 2005, but when Baros was red-carded in the 77th minute, they were already two goals up, and Cahill pulled one back eight minutes from time, but the game ended with Everton losing.

I assume that's the game that you are talking about.

From what I've read, Young started again! And they get yet another penalty and another Everton Red at Anfield. Some things will never change!

Sean Dyche on Pawson's game-changing decision not to give Konate a certain second yellow.

Take both wingers off, then end up with two centre forwards with no crosses to feed off.

But take a moment to reflect the other option: do not make a tackle, player left free to square the ball and they score from it, how many would be screaming at Young for not trying to make that tackle? it was a stupid tackle with being on a yellow but a tackle he had to make.

They were targeting Young's side with balls played there and over the top. As soon as he picked that first yellow card up, Dyche should have reacted quicker and brought Patterson on for Young, he didn't and from that moment they targeted Young as a weakness.

How Tsimakas got away with not getting a yellow a few minutes later, after Young's first yellow, for an almost similar offence was a joke. Then to commit a further 2 fouls, and still no yellow shows the bias of a corrupt official, summed up by not giving Konate a second yellow.

Klopp could not sub him off quick enough, he knows they got away with that one, but I doubt he will be screaming to the rafters about it, because normal service was resumed of a decision going for them. There will be no shouts of a replay or calling officials out by him.

I'm not defending Young, by the way, just highlighting what most other posters were thinking about our weakness.

I have a feeling that might sometimes have been only a foul but you sure shouldn't give a ref the chance to produce a card. Klopp was smarter than Dyche in hooking Konate. Next foul would have seen him off. Dyche must seriously not rate Patterson. Hard to see the point of him being here.

I also can't see how a ref could not award a penalty for their first. Just before the ball came in, Keane moved his arm out, stretched it out more likely. It was a weird and crazy thing to do but we know he has that in him.

We do not have the players with enough technique to pass and hold the ball in an 11-10 game. I agree with others, Doucoure's basic technique is abysmal. To be blunt, other than Calvert-Lewin's gilt-edged chance in the first minute or two, we didn't really threaten, even with 11.

Lots of huffing and puffing but not much quality. Best that can be said is that the defence did okay, especially the left side. Onana was a bit livelier too, though Garner had an off day.

It removes the decision-making process from the pitch and puts it in the hands of unaccountable deciders. In other words, from the visible sphere to the unseen back room "referee whisperers".

That this is technology is no justification, as manipulation of criteria is possible with angles, lines etc. Even worse, it opens decisions to subjectivity, as the invisible deciders have their preferences and inclinations. Their presuppositions may well be unconscious, formed by media conditioning.

Gerrymandering is a greater possibility than when officials on the pitch have to make tough decisions in front of a crowd, and bear the consequences. They may make wrong decisions, as errare humanum est, but for me mistakes are preferable to the backroom manipulation which seems to go on endlessly.

After watching today's game, and having been a Blue for over 50 years, I really wonder whether watching football with the VAR is worth its while any more. The system cannot be beaten and the system is ultimately controlled by financial interests. I am not sure I like the ethos of this game any more.

VAR is only supposed to be used for goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity. To compound this, Konate should clearly have been sent off.

Ineptitude or corruption. Shocking match-changing decisions by the ref.

Certainly it was nothing like as egregious as Kounate's second serious offence which was deliberate and designed to frustrate an attack where the defending team was in disorder, which these days rightly invariably brings a yellow.

As you rightly say, Klopp knew he'd dodged a bullet and got his man off asap. Which does rather go to show the difference in intelligence between Klopp and Dyche.

And the trouble with Keane is that he is serially "unlucky". Dyche should follow Napoleon's maxim that he didn't want good generals as much as lucky ones.

The rotation to cover the shite attack was the silver lining. Even at 10 men they did not get the shots they wanted. The penalty bailed them out imo. Following the penalty we broke through a couple of times and threatened goal. There was more of a determination even though options were limited as they tired.

Now that Patterson knows he is needed and since Harrison was taken off, we can settle into this system without Young. Finding places to get Danjuma and Beto involved earlier in the season is necessary. The rotation isn’t there yet but a combination between Doucoure, Danjuma, Beto and Chermiti should yield some final third threat given match time together. Fuck the Red Shite

You see Defenders every week play with their arms down by their sides.It is also obvious that they make a conscious effort to do so particularly when blocking in the Penalty area. Keane has been always been lacks defending, hence so many errors.So much so that their was a collective anxiety amongst Evertonians when he come on as a Sub.

RIP Bobby Charlton..

Wasn't overly impressed by the RS. Nor the refereeing. Still not enamoured by the subs policy.

The rest is covered above.

When you run where do you put your arms?

It was a soft pen the likes of which we don't get but the big boys get every week.

I like Keane but the lad must smash a mirror every time he puts a blue shirt on.

The game itself was a non event and far from an even sporting contest. The thrill has gone. Never has the beautiful game been more rigged than it is now.

Down to 10 men, we couldn't put two passes together so the ball just went back to the shite. After half-time, the end result was never really in doubt.

It's early days but I don't see anything in Beto or Chermiti, and very little in Harrison or Danjuma.

In all fairness, how you can say the difference in intelligence between Klopp and Dyche is because Klopp took Konate off?

He knew he got away with one, he couldn't wait to get him off. Dyche didn't get that chance. Two fouls, two yellows, ref bottled it.

Their whole ground reverberates with it, an air of entitlement, expectation and demand for positive penalty decisions. Unfortunately, it works. Never has the game been so bent.

Bobby Charlton, RIP, exceptional footballer and superb shot, and thanks for the memories and some scorchers you scored v the RS.

I had reservations, earlier this week, when I saw the match referee, but this fixture is the easiest nap, to bet on when, and how many Everton players will be booked, sent off and when the RS, will get a penalty.

It’s like changing of the seasons, it’s nailed on to happen.

Pawson isn’t for for the EPL, nor any top level football, total cack house, referee.

The game is fekked, seriously it’s going down the drain.

Also 8 p.m. games on a Saturday night, the media is dictating the game now, there’s no consideration of supporters, and tif, it’s becoming a nonsense, in terms of the media’s grip on football.

I don’t mind losing a game, but when the game is changed by a serial incompetent referee, then, the club, must lodge a formal complaint.

The RS, have been moaning the last month since the Spurs game. Today The Satanic Rites conspired yet again.

Today Tsimikas and Kanoute should have been off the park.

Mr Ed, is so far, very quiet tonight. So to bounce back for West Ham, and I expect Everton, to win.
UTFTs!

Dyche Out!

He's lunging from 2 yards away in desperation and often the ball has gone when his tackle lands. It's happening every game.

Kenwright out.

Dyche should say it straight in his interview regarding Pawson, and sit down with the head of referees and go through the recording of the game to point out Pawsons mistakes. I feel robbed again, by bias officials.

Not much to say is there really? Another pointless trek across the park. Trying to see the positives. Mykolenko had a good game and kept him mostly quiet; Onana did well in the first half. And ... well ... the best I can do is that their ground looked shite.

Dyche got what he deserved today. Their weak defence was there to be taken apart but we never touched it after thirty-six seconds. We needed to be on the front foot from the off and for 52 seconds it looked like we were, but then Dycheitis set in.

Just sad really, a bit numb, a touch miserable. That game touched most of the things I hate about footy today: plucky middle-of-the-road Everton, woeful officials, them winning when they were not really that good, a clown on the live forum, some disgraceful stabs at politics on the live forum.

Three points at the theatre of porn will do nicely thanks.

Gutted.

Thought we done okay for most of the game.

Defining moments that always make a game of football.

Calvert-Lewin missing the early chance.

Ashley Young, the alleged most experienced player on the pitch losing his head when he could have stood his ground and ushered the player out of play, knowing he was already on a yellow.

One of their players not getting a yellow minutes later.

I suppose it is easy to have a go at Michael Keane. I do it enough. Other than agreeing that he should have his arm by his side, I'm not sure what he is supposed to do with a ball hit at him that close. There has just been a similar one in the Chelsea v Arsenal match. It was a penalty by the letter of the law, so no complaints.

Just don't play him and if we do, stick him up front out of harm's way.

The manager set his stall up at half time. Five at the back and backs to the wall, inviting the inevitable against the Duracell Bunnies. Dominic and then Beto cutting increasingly isolated figures up front. It wasn't a case of having no outlet, we had no supply.

Branthwaite is a star. He didn't put a foot wrong in a tough match that put pressure on the defence. I worry someone will come in for him sooner rather than later.

I save my last comment for the Referee. Forget the other officials, silent men who didn't contribute. But that Referee was outrageous. Liverpool should also have been down to 10 and Klopp knew it hence hooking their player minutes after he should have been shown a second yellow and sent off, keeping them at 11.

One rule for one, one rule for others as they say.

Absolute shithouse of a star struck referee. I've just been given an interesting stat by my equally disappointed son. In the last 36 games he has refereed a Liverpool fixture, he's given them one (yes one) yellow card that he has officiated for them.

It borders on match fixing.

Sorry. Feeling raw.

God bless Bobby Charlton. An absolute gentleman of the beautiful game of football.

West Ham next. I will see some of you there. And then onto Burnley to get one step closer to Wembley.

It can't always be a tale of woe and misery on our part. As Dyche has said, the narrative needs to change. Looking at the fixtures, we need to beat West Ham to avoid being in crisis over Christmas again.

You can't blame Keane for the penalty. It's impossible to play football – or any other sport – with your arms straight down your side. You have to maintain your balance. He was just unlucky.

I just wonder about that having watched other defenders in similar situations… It seems that, since this latest, craziest interpretation of the handball rule came in, defenders have acknowledged the imminent danger of giving away a penalty if they have their arms flailing around, and have taken to holding their arms to their sides or behind their backs.

I may be wrong but I don't think any defender with their arms in this 'unnatural' position has had a penalty awarded against them? Hence the decision the defenders take to do this with their arms when in potentially dangerous situations.

Contrast this with Michael Keane. He goes in with his arm extended in an equally unnatural position and, lo and behold, ball strikes arm. Maybe he just forgot to pull his arm in and not give the referee an obvious opportunity to give them bastards a penalty?

In the current circumstances where most defenders have to operate, I think that was a clear mistake by him, not a question of being unlucky.

Having watched the highlights, and I might be looking through blue-tinted specs, but there's no denying the corruption and the media love for the Devil's Spawn and their Nordic followers!

Missus is glad it's over!!

Branthwaite is 21 years old. Very young for a centre-back. Let's not repeat the John Stones scenario.

Yes, I agree, he was helped out by his partner Tarkowski - that's how it works and Tarkowski is one of the best covering centre-backs we've had since Jagielka.

It's happened. It's over. I can forget about them until we face them at Goodison for what could possibly be the last time.

Meanwhile I make my way to the London Stadium next week.

Off track, I had a good chat with a relative today. As I've alluded to previously, my Grandfather and David Moyes' Grandfather were brothers. I spoke to Moyes' uncle today. His family moved to Scotland (Glasgow) whereas mine moved to Liverpool. He wished me good luck. And for next week!

West Ham, then Burnley.

I don't fear playing the devil's children, but I am always glad to get it out of the way.

Look Jurgen we cocked up at Spurs but its gone now. However we will make it up to you asap. Expect a pen sooner than later. Also when one of your lads is on a yellow and does another worthy of a yellow - we will overlook it - just take the lad of straight away - wink wink and bobs your uncle and 3 points will be yours.

ok Jurgen. Stop smiling you're blinding us !!!!

Ref to Dyche - what do you expect. This is Anfield, Have a yellow.

I haven't seen the chance, but Latchford had an atrocious record against the other lot, whilst with Everton. He once, even lobbed one straight to Clemence in a game at the other place, pretty late in the game too if my memory serves. I'm not certain, but I don't think that the Latch ever scored for Everton in a derby game.

There are a lot of plusses to be taken out of the game; I think Coleman has to be a shoe-in at RB when fit, along with Tarks, Jarrad and Myko as our first picks at the back. Onana and Garner are developing into a good midfield hub and hopefully we can improve in forward areas.
I fail to see how Keane, Patterson and Godfrey will get much game time under Dyche, though I do feel that Keane sometimes gets some unwarranted stick :to me, he is actually a decent footballer who is, unfortunately, prone to lapses in concentration which leaves us vulnerable.
Dyche will find a team he trusts when they are all fit, and it would not surprise me if Patterson and Godfrey are sold on, they are still young and you might expect would have decent re-sale value. The squad needs another re-set, however, we may be forced to wait until the Summer before this is possible.

Hear! Hear!

We do need to stay positive, and there are the makings of a team here to be sure.

Wait for it...

BUT!!!

Ashley Young is just fucking awful. The decision to go in for a (rather healthy kick at a limb) challenge like that on a yellow is absolutely stupid!!! It absolutely changed the game, Young should feel such shame it should weigh on him for years! Just a stupid, stupid, stupid challenge on a yellow.

We have the makings of a team, by my Lord Young simply can not play! He is a massive liability and it's situations like this that kill a team. He let down his manager, teammates, and millions of Evertonians today.

In America we call these things "mental mistakes" by athletes. You can't even class this as a "mental mistake" as it was more in the realm of "shit for brains idiot".

I don't want to see him play again. Ever. With Seamus back Ashley Young shouldn't even be our second choice RB, it should be Paddo.

I'm still fuming at Young, and I'm not forgiving him for that asinine challenge.

Keane must have weakest mentality of any player in Premier League and is a complete liability with mistakes guaranteed to come and be catastrophic.

Young is targeted by the opposition as a weak link and has been fortunate to get away with it mostly this season before today's brain-dead challenge.

Dyche deserves to be sacked if he ever picks either of these two again imo!

Most defenders are very aware that penalties are given if the ball hits their hand, accidental or not, there is a picture of Mylenko, in today's game with his hands behind his back defending against a Liverpool attack.

When you see Keane's face after the penalty, you know he knows he made another cock-up, looks like he is ready to cry. I was like that when I saw him coming on for the second half.

The referee was always going to be on their side after Klopp's moaning the other week.

I'm not even disappointed. Let's move on to West Ham next weekend.

Our game (on the telly), yet again a nonsense. Under the stupid rules of today, Keane’s handball was a penalty. No argument. But for anyone who has ever played the game, it shouldn’t be. So, daft rules come to be applied, therefore Young’s red card was correct. And the only conceivable punishment for Konaté was also a red. But, mysteriously, it was not. This is not accidental, it is corrupt, and at the end of the match I just shrugged my shoulders (I don’t blame the result solely on the corruption).

On to Marine, where a scrappy game was decided by two smart movements that were lovely to witness.

Best game of the day was a random one that broke out in the Marine car park post-match between a gang of lads and one girl, 7-12 year olds, kicking hell out of a ball. Said ball inevitably went into the clubhouse, was carried out by Marine’s chairman in his club tie and blazer, who gave them a minor bollocking, and told them to carry on but be careful.

How has the English Premier League come so far removed from the true beautiful game? On which note, RIP Bobby Charlton, a proper footballer.

The poor fella attracts mistakes and moans like iron filings zipping to magnets. He's nowhere near as poor as some say, but we need to move him on and I hate it when we go three at the back, it either means we got Dycheitis or a red card.

I take it you weren't a fan of Latchford after that derby miss?

I remember it well, I was in the RS Kop boysie that day, it was at the Anfield Road end if I recall.

After that miss, I suppose there was no coming back for the Latch for you?

Whilst he's not great shakes, I much prefer Godfrey in a back 3 – just not in a 2 or as full-back!

I don't usually abuse our players, but what a moron. Surely Dyche and his staff had been drumming into the players all week not to give the referee or his fifty thousand assistants a decision to make? Even if they didn't, Young has been around forever, He must know how it works at this shithole. Did he really imagine a different outcome to that incredibly stupid challenge?

I knew it wouldn't be a barrel of laughs sitting among the kopites, but they were even worse than I expected. The hatred spilling down at the referee or linesman if they gave us so much as a throw-in had to be heard to be believed.

When that ref trotted over to view Keane's "Handball" it was a complete charade. He was so desperate to appease the kopites, he had already made his mind up before he got near the screen. Some will say it was a penalty, but nobody will convince me it would have been awarded if it was the other way round.

And why on earth wasn't that Liverpool player (don't know his name) sent off for a second bookable offence? The ref may as well have ran over to Klopp and warned him to take him off.

Frustrated and angry, not because we lost, I can handle that, but because they were shite. They were out of ideas and If the ref hadn't have come to their aid, they wouldn't have scored if they were still playing now.

My heart sank when we let go of Howard Kendall (not so much Archie Styles) but Big Bob quickly became my hero. I cannot think of him without a smile for those days.

Dare I even say it on today of all days, Bob was also and is a true gent!

Latchford had one great season, the 30 goals one. He was okay, definitely didn't walk on water. What put me off him was in one derby game at Goodison, he went in on Clemence like he was entitled to but Tommy Smith got hold of him and dragged him like a rag doll for a few yards and Bob took it and never had a go back.

I met him at Villa Park after he retired and me and Tony had a good chat to him for about 20 minutes, very easy to talk to and a nice man, too nice that day with Ugly (Tommy Smith).

You were right, Jeff, that miss was in the Anfield Road end; I was in the Kop.

https://twitter.com/MarkBirch1988/status/1715749848312328217

Been trying to alter that for the last few minutes without success, no need for the bizzies or mods!

I would have been about 12 or 13. I remember boils all over his face. I opened my mouth to say something and he looked at me and said "Fuck off, kid".

Tommy Smith / Bobby Charlton. Two opposite ends of a spectrum.

‘Fuck off’ to a young boy, showed you the calibre of the man, a bully on the field and off.

A team of fucking gobshite shithouses! Fcuk them! One day we'll have them.

It was a risk starting with Young who quickly got his familiar early booking. Dyche gambled again by leaving him on, and that failed. Okay, a change at half-time was expected, but Michael Keane? Once again, the gamble failed.

For me these were two clear and obvious errors by the manager. Add that to our all too familiar inability to play a pass and keep possession means we will always be beaten by the better teams. And although they didn't play well today, sadly they remain a much better team than us.

Keane was at fault for the penalty, there was no need to bring him on.

The decision not to send off the Liverpool player was outrageous.

Dyche had a bad day at the office, he has a blind spot for certain players and it's costing us. 7 points from 9 games tells its own story.

Maybe staying up (we will) is enough for some but not for me!

ps: I said my bit about the football earlier. That was just shite – not from Everton but just about everything else.

Only joking, Dave, but you're a tough audience.

Bobby Latchford walks on water for a massive amount of teenage Blues from 1974 to 1981.

I am still alarmed, however, that Dyche sacrificed width with that double change, they have dodgy full-backs.

Completely agree, Jeff, about '70s teens and Big Bob. The tragedy, if I am right, is that it was The Sun that set up the prize. Big Bob, Maxwell's Plum, Erics, Fawlty Towers, Jack Sharps.

I have to respectfully disagree, Gray, Sharp, Sheedy and Steven are up there with the best of all-time Everton forwards.

Thomas and Latchford were a fantastic combination for a couple of years, but those I mentioned above were all good players for a fairly long time in Everton blue.

I'm fairly sure it was the Daily Express who gave the prize for the 30 goals in a season, it certainly wasn't The Sun.

"Then came a tax demand from the Inland Revenue on the £10,000. He was not laughing then as half of the money had gone to the Professional Footballers' Association and £4,000 into the players' pool. Latchford got £1,000. He ended up in court and lost." 

It was The Express that set up the £10,000 prize that Latchford won in his one and only decent season. 🥴🥴

A Tory rag nonetheless, the only mass-read labour papers back then were the Mirror and the Morning Star.

Dyche's subs at half-time just handed the RS the initiative they needed to attack us more.

We must going forward find a way of starting Beto, Danjuma, McNeil, Harrison & Garner... our most creative players, to give us at least a fighting chance of winning games as, for me, we still play it far too safe!

I doubt there will be any sort of apology from Howard Webb for the refusal to give Konaté his marching orders. Why would there be? We are low in the table and were expected to lose to a team near the top.

Our back line performed well. Mykolenko was excellent in dealing with Salah. The problems were further forward. The passing was poor, the movement and pressing were uncoordinated and we were too open to the counterattack.

I was disappointed with James Garner in the first half hour when the game passed him by. That was the time when we needed him to stamp his authority on the play. He failed to do so.

Onana played well shielding the defence but struggled to make any impact going forward. His shot from the halfway line was ridiculous when he had the time and space to make a driving run forward.

Doucouré never stopped running but too often ran into dead ends while McNeil and Calvert-Lewin were too easily shackled by their markers.

Tsimikas should have been yellowed early on, Dyche should have exploited this with Harrison or McNeil second half, and got into the ref's ear.

He didn't, he gave them an easy ride second half and tried, and failed for a point.

Even if it had gone 10 v 10, we had nobody on the pitch to win the game with his negative half-time subs.

That was from the Daily Mail website, so the truth could be anything.

I know of one First Division footballer's salary from the late '80s – £60k per annum. Things have changed just a bit, eh?

There was an excuse when we lacked a forward; now that we have a few to choose from and yet still we have no cutting edge to speak of, particularly away against the higher-ranked teams.

It's all very well working hard off the ball and keeping shape etc but surely dealing with the ball should be second-nature to people who have been coached since a very early age.

Sheffield Utd when they were brave enough earlier tonight showed they could move the ball fairly well and get shots away against Man Utd.

They succumbed to Man Utd when they either chose to fall back or were pushed back by the opponents. I don't understand why we bother playing some matches if the best one team can do is to keep the other side out, but I suppose that's the modern way.

That said the Reidy/Gray Tricky/Gray link ups in the 1985 Sunderland 4-1 are still to this day the best winger/striker goal/combinations that I have ever seen! What a goal that was. We went one down didn't we? What a performance that was. The starting 11 that day was THE team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlw5g8PWyvQ

Thomas in particular would have glided into that mid-80s team and there would been some competition for places. I don't think of Sheeds, my favourite ever fella in blue, as an out-and-out wide player like DT.

I think of Jack Sharps every time I walk down Whitechapel Will.

I'm not sure but I do remember we had Yobo, alongside Carsley in midfield and neither of them could get near Alonso, even though we had the numerical advantage that day.

Michael K, I take your point but I thought Keane was more side on than square on, and it's not as if Liverpool, had many players lining up in the box. The ref was right on the spot and gave a corner but I suppose these are the rules (sometimes) and when Lampard told the truth about how referees ref games at Anfield, he was actually given a fine.

Maybe Everton should appeal that fine given to Lampard, or at least bring it up to Howard Webb first thing on Monday morning?

Moston: "They're looking more and more like champions"

There were only around 36K at that game.

'Hand it over, hand it over.'

Jumpers for goal posts.

Your final paragraph is exactly what I was thinking whilst watching today, but you have a lot more eloquence than me, mate👍

Good grief I'm getting teary, sentimental, and nostalgic here! White wine at 5PM brooding on the Derby don't help either.

That reminds me of Unlucky Alf the character in the Fast Show, who I'm sure would be the perfect nickname for poor old Michael Keane, if there's something that can go wrong for the lad, it usually does, he's always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Paul @ 174

I think I'll have to do similar on the alcohol front, as I've just read on G.O.T:

So since he [Bill Kenwright] became head honcho in December 1999 we've now suffered our 28th derby defeat and have won just 5 in that time.

I haven't checked that fact because I really don't want to.

“Oh bugger”

Michael Keane as the ball hits his arm and he hears a whistle go!

It was packed, looked to be more in there than stated – which seemed to happen, er, now and then...

I bumped into Sharp, Heath and Richardson et al a few times back then. Sharp was always an obnoxious twat even then, didn't want to engage with the great unwashed, and he had thunder thighs too.

Surprisingly enough other media including The Sun and BBC shared the view “we was robbed.” I did find it amusing Klopp said he sympathized with us but “you get over these things quickly” even while he still bangs on about the Spurs game.

I've seen several people defending Keane and it may well be he was hard done by. But whether he's at fault or not, the outcome is always the same. He has this habit of scoring own goals and conceding penalties.

Remember the dubious VAR review at Brighton? I'm not saying it's his fault but the guy is clearly the unluckiest SOB in the world which makes him a liability.

As for Young, I thought he seemed an okay signing but everything I've seen of him this season suggests we waited a year too long and he's just not up to it any more. The rash tackles remind me of the dying embers of Bryan Robson's career where he evolved into Terry Hurlock 2.0 and was a card magnet.

Luckily, the various posters who slagged off Dyche and said we should have gone for Kompany look a bit silly now as his team continue to keep us above water. Bournemouth likewise seem to have made a huge mistake firing O'Neill.

Remember nattering with Claire Grogan in there. Someone might correct me, but Sharp had a real reputation for not signing things or chatting.

I remember when the team could always be found in The Weld Blundell on the Formby bypass on Wednesday nights if not playing. They would all have a chat apart from guess who. I remember Alan Harper puking up in the car park!

Surely, we must have committed more than 4 fouls in the game, and if we didn't, why not?

Accountants that can't add up, CEOs who don't think for themselves — it's the Everton way!

I agree totally about the ridiculousness of the situation, where bookings, a sending off and a penalty are given and considered correct, due to the absurdity of the current interpretations of the rules.

Then even more abhorrent, the absence of the same interpretation by the same referee, in the same match, for the second booking on Konate, that was not given.

That 'mistake' by the ref, totally changed the game. Keane would not have come on had it been 10 a side would he, no penalty, a different game. A good game had been developing, totally spoilt by an, at best, 'incompetetent' referee. It seems we cursed against the Red Shite.

I suffer from optimism, I am looking for the turning of the luck, or at least an evening out of it, and we get revenge in the return match at Goodison. We owe them big-time. May we get back to winning ways next time out in the meantime.

Well played Everton today though, the lads did not deserve that officiating Horror Show, at the House of Horrors, today. I hope they hold their heads up high and take their frustrations out on the coming opponents. Up the Toffees.

If you went on Southampton, Norwich, Sunderland, Rotherham etc fan sites you'd probably read similar stuff.

Football is a magnet for dreamers, schemers and losers,
… and gullible fans.

Super Latch forever!!! 💙

Mark # 147 - “ One day we’ll have them” - yes indeed.

Just don't stick your arm out when a cross is coming in, Michael, it's not rocket science.

Better yet, just don't play him.

We are gonna suffer this shit forever unless we get a manager who is progressive thinking in football terms but also willing to meet all opponents head-on.

I'm sick of this surrender shit, regardless of the corrupt and inept officials.

I do not think that Dyche in his selections and tactics has the simple aim of maintaining a challenge. This is a thread that runs through all his team performances this season. Bournemouth were no challenge. He is about improving stats and defending them. Even this squad could have got more out of that game, if challenging had been the objective.

Dyche is about survival at best and Everton are stuck with him, such has been the mismanagement off the pitch, which is ongoing.

I'm in total agreement, shithouse football from a shithouse safety first manager. I can't stand the fella, I honestly can't wait for him to be fucked off.

Taking the 2 wingers off was ridiculous and if I see Ashley Young at right back again, I'll tear out what little hair I've got left. Young is woeful.

And as for Michael Keane, what the fuck was he doing? I'm sick of losing to the RS. Mind you, how that Konate stayed on the pitch is a mystery, definitely a red card.

That is what I am taking away from this game. This group of players has got a heart and they will get better.

I don't feel the need to criticise individuals but I have to give a shout-out for Mykolenko. This lad has been written off by many of us (not me) but he kept one of the best wide men in the world quiet today and that is the first priority of a full-back.

Sean Dyche now has to play young Patterson and I believe he will end up a top full-back. Both of them have that “Who the fuck are you”? attitude about them. A vital ingredient of an Everton player's make-up in my opinion.

ps: Going by Sean Dyche's post-match comments, I would say this game as turned him into an Evertonian. That's a good thing.

“You have gotta pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues” – but we will be singing them soon enough.

Klopp knew that our only likely way of scoring was from a set-piece and once McNeil and Harrison went off, it made Klopp's job very easy.

Obviously, the pressure loaded by Klopp on the referees resulted in this twit and his VAR man Coots (another dreadful ref) shitting themselves.

However, despite the possibility of Konate deserving a second yellow, and the Greek kid getting away with three fouls in quick succession, we failed to take an easy chance and then failed to make another one.

Liverpool are nowhere near the sort of team that you have to play that way. We gave them far too much respect. Mark my words, lots of ordinary sides will go to Anfield and expose their soft underbelly.

As for Dyche, his methods might keep us up and out of the dogfight but, long term, he is not the answer.

I know the answer. No. Because it would be laughed at and we have more class than the smiling sore loser with his Ross from Friends teeth.

I too have sat amongst the uneducated at our former stadium many times and it borders on unbearable.

John Raftery. Best post on the thread. A loss is always disappointing, especially against them. But in the circumstances, we played decent. Against the odds and, as much as I hate the phrase, up against the 12th man (the man in black), we held on to give ourselves a chance but just succumbed to the inevitable in the end. Yes, Dyche played into Klopp's hands, but a few seasons ago, that ends up being an embarrassing thumping.

West Ham to think about now. For those travelling, get in touch. It's an early start for those making the journey from afar.

I'll probably make my way to Stepney Green station. There is the Half Moon or maybe the infamous Blind Beggar. It's friendly around there.

As with many London clubs, if you go too close to the ground, they get funny about away supporters. Even though it's right next to the Westfield shopping centre, they still check and I struggle to convince them I live in London.

It's gone. It's done. We move on.

My nephew (season ticket holder) is in hospital and having to have surgery. My sister messaged me yesterday to tell me his main concern that was he wouldn't be able to watch the match!

Ugly never got involved with Mogsy, Dennis Law was another yet Latch walked away, sorry about that Neil (189), you were only a boy when you fell in love with him, we all make mistakes especially when we are young, and I did say he was a lovely fella to talk to!

I fell in love with Dave Hickson when I was 10 but that wasn't a mistake!

Someone from the club should be calling this out.

I was amazed he left Gana on the bench yesterday when I was fully expecting him to be brought straight back in for his 'experience'. The only thing he got wrong was playing Young, and leaving him on when he received his first yellow.

The defensive switch at half-time was understandable: away at Liverpool with 10 men for more than an hour, a draw would have been greeted as a miracle by many.

I think Dyche will do alright with us, he's winning me over and I was one of his biggest critics.

All he has to do is persist with Patterson at right-back and consign Michael Keane to the history books!

I was at Elland Road when he equalised against West Ham in the cup and jumped on the fence at the Everton end. Most exciting moment I've ever experienced in football.

Yes, I was proved right about Ashley Young being a liability in a highly intense match, so soon after the RS game at Spurs. This was in fact their first league game at home since that Spurs game, so we all knew who the referee was going to favour.

Young was laced at Brentford in the first minute, committed a foul and got booked, so it was vitally important yesterday that he gave Pawson no reason whatsoever to show him a yellow card. The first yellow was silly, sticking his knee out and inviting the foul, which was duly accepted, giving Pawson his chance.

Their left full back, don't know his name, don't want to, had committed about four fouls alone in the first half, yet no sign of a card. Yet this may have been Young's first foul, and out it came.

The second foul was just ridiculous. Diaz had laced him, so just let him go; they might have scored, they might not, but at least don't give Pawson a reason to show a second yellow and we keep eleven men on the pitch.

Their centre half, Konate (?), should have walked, no doubts about it, and it just defies belief that he never. Okay, the ball was still in our half, but it seemed like Beto had a clear run on goal, albeit about a 60-yard run, but he's quick and I doubt he would have been caught. In fact, Konate did walk, being subbed almost immediately by Bingo who knew he had got away with it.

I found the half-time substitutions bizarre. To remove both McNeil and Harrison was daft. It just gave their two full-backs licence to bombard down each wing. We had no outlets whatsoever, our only source of crossing the ball wiped out, unless it was from a corner.

We did well to hold out as long as we did, and I was really beginning to think we could hang on. The RS seemed to be running out of ideas, but alas, it was not to be, as the almost inevitable happened, although there cannot be any arguments for the penalty decision. Keane did exactly the same at Leicester last season.

I honestly couldn't tell you how many times I've been to our former home, but I've only seen us win twice. Sadly it's becoming routine, and the disappointment lessens season by season.

At least the effort was there, and for me, Mykolenko was our star man. He had Salah in his pocket for 75 minutes until he was given the opportunity from the spot to score.

So on we go to West Ham, whilst all is well with Bingo again, having finally got the officials back on his side… The Teutonic Twat!!

Young was brought in to provide cover for both full-backs and generally has been poor in every game he has played. An experienced pro getting 2 bookings for 2 challenges is unforgivable.

Mykolenko has risen to the challenge and is a better defender than most make out.

Patterson doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch. It will be interesting to see who Dyche picks to play right-back against West Ham as I personally think Garner is a better full-back.

As for some of the comments about Keane keeping his arms by his side are just ridiculous. The game is played at a fast pace, the ball was crossed over from about 3 yards with him running towards his own goal. It hit his arm and was a soft penalty.

For all concerned, we need to move Keane on, he is unlucky Alf, as someone above pointed out.

He strutted around the technical area mouthing off. Our manager makes a legitimate complaint about a legitimate second yellow and gets booked before they instantly withdraw the player, but keep 11 players on the pitch. Those decisions should go to the VAR, as they couldn't have come up with any other conclusion unless they are being influenced.

Clive Thomas. Alan Hansen's League Cup Final handball. Don Hutchinson's "goal". Gerrard changing the ref's initial decision to get Tony Hibbert sent off. Carragher wrestling Lescott to the ground that should have been a stonewall penalty.

There are no doubt many more with this fixture. When will it end?

I'll catch up with you at West Ham.

As soon a it looked like a cross was coming in he stuck his arm out - and then adjusted it! Deliberate handball in my book. The question in my mind is why?

As for the officiating, we know what happens throughout history. Even one of the linesmen at the Clattenburg derby was a Liverpool fan.

Many knew that Young would be vulnerable and targeted, maybe sent off. We all suspected that Patterson might be. The mighty difference is that Patterson will get better and needs experience. Young will get worse, that is indisputable.

In my view, playing Young was stubborn, misguided and possibly lost us a winnable game.

If Konate is not already on a yellow, he would have been booked for a professional foul, that fact he was already on a yellow, should not have influenced the ref, he did not follow the letter of the law and made his own decision, for that he should be suspended from duties.

He cannot even say he used his own judgment and common sense, and unaware of rule whatever, because he applied it when he gave Young two yellow cards, the same should have applied to Konate.

It is no use appealing, our neighbours did and were richly rewarded, the last time we did, and got a letter of apology for the Rodri handball, the following three games we played, we had three players sent off, one in each game and countless penalty appeals turned down.

They look after their own, god forbid any of the rest dare to challenge the top brass against one of their darlings.

With a separate issue popping up on the 25th, Profitability and Sustainability, separate I think from FFP Premier League rulings, the last thing we need to do is go and complain about the ref, because you know they might very well say "We are deeply sorry" – it's the consequences we get after that, that bothers me, for daring to ask for another apology.

That was in the early eighties and a place to meet, have a meal a couple of drinks and a few more around town before heading back up town to a stay behind in The Goblin in Islington then getting a taxi home or the first bus Sunday morning, wish I could do that now!

The best explanation I have received was “that was years ago” but when you analyze some of the things their great fans constantly bring up on the internet, every time something goes against them, then the most logical thing to think is that Liverpool Football Club must have a department dedicated to digging up some of the incredible stuff that is found?

Most of them would be well employed at the Ministry of Truth. I've had plenty of good debates with other fans of other teams but never them.

There does seem to be some death or disaster every week.
I think natural disasters that happen in the UK might be justifiable on occasion but where do we draw the line? I notice the 2000 Afgans dying in the recent earthquake did not register a silence.

Sport should be kept away from politics as far as possible.
Just as on ToffeeWeb, we have one thing in common -EFC.

Bobby Charlton is an obvious person to celebrate. He represented the sport with dignity for many years and was known all over the world for his sporting prowess. He is the sort of person we should acknowledge.

Former players, coaches and chairmen, who served with distinction should be granted such ceremony — not causes, victories or virtues.

We should have been playing the last 30 minutes 10 v 10, and it could have been a different result, even though the Shergar-teethed Klopp thought differently.

Regarding Keane getting all the flak for the handball, if Patterson had made a tackle, the cross wouldn't have come in.

Then the referee made an obvious wrong decision and he said “Nonsense, referee!” We still laugh about it, thinking what our usual crowd at Castleford would have said in the same circumstances.

If he's been brought in as a possible replacement for Dominic Calvert-Lewin – if for instance he was to take the money from Gerrard's club, which I don't believe he will – then Beto has to show a great deal more in the heat of the Premier League.

At the moment, he looks bang average and possibly below that level. He'll get time from me, but he has to improve most aspects of his game before he will have the full confidence of the majority of the fans.

I'm more disappointed that Calvert-lewin is missing easy chances like he was pre-injury. This should be bread and butter to any main striker, particularly at this level.

Much of this frustration with the team that is fiercely focused on individual players is actually a grey area. Our lack of a system and associated way of playing makes all functional play a one off. By that I mean we are cobbling together things that work for the players we have. We cannot just plug Beto into what works for DCL.

Add to that any adjustment to the higher intensity and defensive complexity of the Premier League and well just put a fucking target on his jersey instead of a number. It isn’t a fair criticism and it is self defeatism. If people want to slam the new arrivals, fine, but not without a comment if it cannot be stated as you have. Standards man, standards

Is Beto better than Rondon?

Not yet, not yet at all. Though he seems to have mastered Rondon's ambling about skills already.

I would start with Beto when we play the cup game, give Calvert-Lewin the second half if needed, then we might see how good Beto is, when he has McNeil and Harrison on the pitch to feed him.

Perhaps we should allow him to play, I don't know, 10 games for the club? Or even start 10 games in a new league in a new country.

How are forwards expected to score when marked by 4 defenders? Maupay absolutely ruined his career signing for us as did Tosun, Niasse and Kean.

How many chances were created for Maupay in his whole Everton career? 2? 3?

If the tactics are going to be one up front with crabs in midfield, then prime Pele would struggle. That was the team for the last 20 minutes when Beto came on.

Hopefully some Premier League sharpness will come with more games…

Right now, we are lucky to get into the final third with any reliable chance of making a run to get numerical superiority on a wing. We also need box possession to get McNeil or Harrison isolated so they might get to the by-line.

Beto has skills for a system yet to be developed. He doesn't bring an automatic set-up. He will likely keep value even if he doesn't ultimately prove to be the replacement for Dom (not Rondon damn it).

Jeez, give the lad a chance to show what he can do over a full season at least. A pity Konate brought him down or we may all be lauding him as a hero today.

I agree Keane did handle the ball deliberately. I also watched replays from various angles. In the past, I have also watched replays of goals where Keane is a fault. This has been particularly the case when Keane has had to react on his right side. He has unexplainably turned away to his right creating space for an attacker.

He did this, or turned left into the play not looking at all confident and likely to do anything: fluff clearing his lines, caught on the back foot, hesitated and late with the challenge.

I think he knew he was off the position he should have been and tried to put the attacker off with the deliberate raised arm, which backfired. He does try to compensate for his inadequacies.

Every game we have lost due to those reasons has cost us millions in prize money revenue from being 3 points lower in the league as well as possible moves into Europe which again would have resulted in lower earnings.

Our management should spend a £100k (one week of DCL's non scoring salary) and look into the number of points that we have lost over the last 10+ years. Ready to point out to the FA if the independent commission finds against us.

As for the crap "it all evens out in the end" — that is total bullshit and everyone knows that. A good example: LFC last player fouls Kane in the Chamopions League final to stop his one-man charge and they Spurs get a free kick. Nothing happens to Robertson.

2nd example: we have had 13 players given red cards in the derby and a lot have been similar to Young's red. No wonder they only have 7 with yesterday's game typical of decisions against us.

I think even Klopp was embarrassed yesterday when interviewed on TV he was looking over the shoulder of the interviewer while he thought of fictional things to say about his team.

The Premier League isn't a fair competition, it's loaded more now than ever in favour of the usual suspects. It's hard to take, but I wouldn't trade our two league championships in the 80s for success in the Premier League now.

There's a limit on how competitive you can be when the cards are so stacked against you. Dyche knows this for sure, we need to batter them at Goodison, but only the eleven on the pitch can make that happen whoever they are, plus the ref and the knob who is the VAR.

He did okay in the friendly games and early league matches but hasn't played much since, is he the next Academy player to be sold on?

Hopefully next year Dyche can find someone who can hurt teams in the Number 10 position, to alternate with Doucoure. I think having the luxury of a player like James Rodriguez could have led to a break -through again before the sending-off, as we had the ball in some good positions and their defence is not as good as the media believe.

Or maybe another player who can play centre-midfield and Garner as the attacking midfielder as he's got a pass and finish on him. Something like this where there are even more options when you play a team that has all the midfield pressing and leaving big gaps in front of the back four.