Nottingham Forest 0 - 1 Everton

Everton travel to the City Ground this weekend in desperate need of a positive result after they were pushed to bottom place in the Premier League after Burnley thumped Sheffield Utd 5-0.

But Amadou Onana misses out with a troublesome calf issue and Dominic Calvert-Lewin is also absent after he experienced tightness in the same muscle during the defeat to Man Utd.

Beto resumed full training after missing out last Sunday with a knock picked up at Finch Farm and he starts in place of Calvert-Lewin. 

Captain Seamus Coleman could make an appearance off the bench after being an unused sub last week. But Sean Dyche sticks with the old guard: Young and Gana.

The home side got the match underway. It was a bit of frenetic pinball in the early stages although Doucoure did get behind the Forest line but was flagged offside.

Forest built an attack in the 5th minute, the ball headed wide by Yates at the far post. Harrison tried to release Beto but Murillo was better positioned. McNeil tried to release Mykolenko on the other side but he was way behind the play. 

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McNeil tried to drive forward but Elanga tipped the ball behind and Forest messily defended Everton's first corner. Elanga tried to beat Young who of course fouled him clumsily. The free-kick was cleared.

Everton got aonther free-kick but Branthwaite could only stretch with difficulty and the ball was soon lost.  But Everton kept some forward momentum with Forest defending stoutly. A ball in bouced down to Beto off the keeper but his shot was poor, flying over from 10 yards with the goal at his mercy. A good spell of Everton pressure had yeilded nothing. 

Forest did better to build an attack on the half-hour, Elanga with a big chance but he fired inches wide. Forest coach Alan Tate was shown a yellow card for something. 

A good cross from Gibbs-White needed heading behind by Gana with the corner yielding a shot into a crowd of bodies on the penalty spot. There was little respite for the Blues as Forest kept pushing forward. 

Everton finally reversed the trend but McNeil's cross was headed clear by Murillo and Everton had to defend again. But Doucoure was played in and should have picked out Beto but his cross wasn't clever enough. Another Doucoure ball in forced the defender to stretch. 

Finally a great pass from Docucoure set up McNeil who's shot beat the keeper but Murillo had got back onto the line to clear, somewhat incredibly, and at some coste to Murillo who was already struggling, but still Everton could not score. 

Next was another poor cross in from Young, cleared back to Tarkowski whose dreadful half-volley almost hit the corner flag. Doucoure again got the ball in space down the right but this time Beto was poorly positioned, and not in the space where the ball was played in. 

Everton got very sloppy on the edge of their own area and the ball eventualy fell for Gibbs-White who screwd his shot behind the side netting. Docucoure looked to get free but his ball to McNeil was to far in front of him. 

It was a bitty scrappy ugly first half with nothing in the way of quality football from two poor sides but two very clear chances stand out that should have seen Everton go in with a 2-goal lead. 

The Blues resumed but it was more scrappy formless football as they tried and largely failed to get the ball forward. Gana made a good pass to Harrison who weakly lost the ball. 

Forest got forward and their efforts needed some decent defending, Young giving away a free-kick. Gibbs-White put in a great ball that Branthwaite did very well to defend. The turnover should have seen Beto played in at the other end but he wasn't.  

Mykolnko and and McNeil had to block off Gibbs-White for a corner, that was scrappy and Felipe hit the post. Felipe cynically pulled back McNeil who turned him. The free-kick looked promising, but Young smacked it into the wall and behind for an Everton corner. It wa good but only Sangare was there to clear. 

Sill Everton pressed, Mykolenko mishit his shot  as a cross that was cleared.  But Everton looked to be exerting more control wuithout any clean or decisive football, Mykolenko's cross was entirley random, Garner fouled in midfield. The free-kick became  just a bizarre series of spoon balls. 

McNeil looked to play a clever ball to Gana running in, winning a corner but Beto, in the 6-yard area, heads it backwards to Gana, and away. Beto got another chance to shoot but it was woeful. 

Harrison put in a great cross but nobody there and Forest broke at pace, Gibbs-White's ball played well ahead of the leading striker.  Another Everton free-kick hoofed up and it eventually came acorss to McNeil, who did superbly  control the ball and hammer it across goal into the far top corner, an absiolutely superb strike byy the ex-Burnley men to finally give the raucous traveling Blues something to shout about. 

The match was finally ignighted as a contest, Forest willed on to respond and Everton aware that care of the ball in defence was paramount. A free-kick hoofed forward to McNeil almost saw him score a brilliant second but he had started his runa fraction too early and could not finish this time. 

Forest got a free-kick that Elanga overran, with Mykolenko and Branthwaite and he could not pull his shot back in time, hitting the side netting. Forest then wanted handball against Docucoure but his arm was well close to his body, hit at short range. 

Pickford almost got booked for messing about with a second ball at the goal-kick. Forest came surging back and Branthwaite had to defend as they fired upped their effort and intensity, with 15 minutes left.

everton thwarted another Forest attack only for Pickford to throw the ball out to a Forest player and Garner had to make the block to stop an equalizer. Pickford then had to hurl himsself at Elanga to stop whay looked like a certain Forest goal.

Beto spun Felipe and was dragged back but no second yellow fur the Forest man. Why not? Garner with the free-kick, but Everton could not work it into a chance. Chermiti replaced Beto, like for like, and the dreaded Origi on for Forest. 

And it was fuel for a yet more intense Forest effort to get back into the game, and more stalwart defending from Everton. Time for possession fotbal from the Blues (What?) Time and again, they gave the ball aawy and Forest surged forward in numbers. Murillo forced Pickford into a full-strecth save, parried out. 

Mykolenko's defensive header was horrific and Elanga's shot came so close to shaving the far post with Pickford scrambling to cover. Garner almost played in Chermiti but Frest stole the ball back as 4 minutes were added on. 

Some tremndous Blues defending was in order as Forest threw everything they could at the Blues, cross after cross coming in but getting cleared in a desparate sequence of play from both sides.

And the whislte finally went on a tremendous victory for the Blues under the current circumstances with a fantastic aftermatch response from the massed Blues behind the goal, with chorus after chorus of "We Shall Not Be Moved". 

Nottingham Forest: Vlachodimos, Aurier, Boly (46' Felipe [Y:55']), Murillo, Toffolo (83' Origi), Sangare (65' Hudson-Odoi), Mangala, Yates, Gibbs-White, Wood, Elanga. 

Subs: Turner, Williams, Kouyate, Dominguez, Niakhate, Aina.

Everton: Pickford, Young, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Mykolenko, Gana, Garner, Doucoure, Harrison, McNeil, Beto (82' Chermiti).

Subs not Used: Virginia, Patterson, Keane, Danjuma, Godfrey, Coleman, Hunt, Dobbin.


Reader Comments (225)

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Joe McMahon
1 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:26:46

Ashley Young seriously. Patterson has to be given a chance.

Any takers for an early booking for Ashley!

Simon Dalzell
2 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:28:11
Ashley Young is not fit... to wear an Everton shirt.

I can't stand Dyche.

Tony Everan
3 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:30:13
He's normally right, Joe, Dyche just doesn't trust Patterson yet defensively. He seems to me like the lesser gamble of the two!
David Bromwell
4 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:36:07
It's the manager's team, not sure that many supporters would select Young.

What's the odds on him getting booked?

Tony Everan
5 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:39:46
Shows the importance of having proper back up to DCL. Great opportunity for Beto to stake a claim. Dyche sticking with Young again won't be popular, he must not trust Patterson's defending at all.

From what I've seen, Patterson is the lesser risk. Big match for McNeil too, he needs to get back to top form fast, slightly lucky to keep his place today


Derek Knox
6 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:43:19
David and Tony,

I totally agree about Young v Patterson, getting the nod, when we got him on a free.

I was under the impression he was brought in as experienced cover. Not the preferred starter if fit!

Christy Ring
7 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:45:28
Coleman fully fit, and still playing Young, and what odds of an early booking.
Tony Everan
8 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:47:55
Yes, Derek.

Christy, if Young gets booked early on, it will be like watching a horror movie through your fingers, rather than enjoying a footy match.

Paul Birmingham
9 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:49:56
I fancy Everton to win.

Losing Calvert-Lewin and missing Amadou is a dent but I still believe Everton will make enough chances and take a couple of them to beat Forest.


Neil Lawson
10 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:50:44
If Seamus is fit for the bench, then he is fit to start.

Makes no sense.

Joe McMahon
11 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:54:42
Paul @9,

I assume you saw all the missed chances last week. And that's with Calvert-Lewin.

Paul Birmingham
12 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:55:15
Yep, I reckon Seamus will come on in the 2nd half. But like many, Ashley Young, takes rusky challenges, and it seems a show of faith by Sean Dyche.

Hopefully a possible good omen today, for Beto, it's Saint Eusebius Day, and hopefully he will play like Eusebio, and destroy Forest today.


Brian Wilkinson
13 Posted 02/12/2023 at 16:57:45
If young gets his usual yellow he will miss the Newcastle game, there again Branthwaite and Doucoure are only a booking away from suspension as well.

He might have a decent game today, but certainly not being picked on merit, looks like the new stubborn Michael Keane mark two, plenty of mistakes but still gets picked.

Anyway I will not focus the game on Young, we have to get something out of this game, do not care if it’s scrappy, result is all that matters.

Frank McGregor
15 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:02:22
I do not like criticizing but I feel the same way about the continual picking of Young, week-in & week-out. He has been responsible indirectly for losing Everton 6 points this season.

If we had those 6 points the deduction of 10 points by the Premier League would be easily manageable. Losing 3 points to Luton at home is a typical example.

Dean Williams
16 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:06:38
Dyche is an absolute wanker!
Alan J Thompson
17 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:07:58
Thank heavens Dyche sees them at training as what they do during a match doesn't seem to matter.
Dan Parker
18 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:18:28
Tim Howard just announced on NBC as inducted in the US soccer hall of fame. Imagery in his Toffee days. Easy to be cynical but made me smile, genuinely decent bloke and great keeper during the Moyes era.
Phil Smith
19 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:21:21
Young again??? Seriously, ffs! He must absolutely kill in training and he's sucking some serious d!
Si Cooper
20 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:30:18
We reset and go again! Three points or the gloom will deepen severely. Players need to scrap for every 50/50 plus efficient finishing.
Sean Mitchell
21 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:45:01
The Forest fans singing you cheating bastards.
I see that wasn't volumed out.
Dean Williams
22 Posted 02/12/2023 at 17:47:03
Harrison has been proper cat since he came here.
Michael Lynch
23 Posted 02/12/2023 at 18:25:15
Forest have been laughably terrible but we still can’t score.

We should show them our xG - that’ll scare them.

Alan J Thompson
24 Posted 02/12/2023 at 18:29:05
That half was an almost perfect example of high speed bloody awful football!

McNeil may have been unlucky with his effort off the line but I was going to say that Beto looks lost but I'm not sure that he isn't just out of his depth. Even Pickford looks lost on who he should be wellying it to.

Have either side got anybody of skill who might take this game by the scruff as at the moment neither side seem to have any sort of plan, system or idea or the wherewithal to implement it.

Dave Abrahams
25 Posted 02/12/2023 at 18:34:32
Two more gilt edged chances missed— can Forest be as poor in the second half as they were in the first? Will Beto eventually show something and score? Will Dyche put Dobbin or the other young lad on and use their pace against the slow and tiring Forest centre backs?

Plenty of questions-wish I knew the answers.

Andy Crooks
26 Posted 02/12/2023 at 18:37:52
Time for Beto to hit back. I said I while ago that he reminded me of Rondon without the goals, touch skill and endeavour.
Love to be eating those words later
Jerome Shields
27 Posted 02/12/2023 at 18:41:05
Thought that Forest were set up to defend and spoil play first half, even got their gifted chance to score. Everton had opportunities but couldn't score. Passing in final third over hit or not completed.

It will be a different Forest in the second half, pushing up. Beto needs to keep trying.

Dan Parker
28 Posted 02/12/2023 at 18:42:56
Great Myko there. Young is a liability
Dean Williams
29 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:13:41
Beto is sooooo crap.
Michael Lynch
30 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:26:07
Brilliant - up to 11th without the asterisk
Kieran Kinsella
31 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:30:16

lol you beat me to it I was going to say the same thing. Good result. If we can figure out a way to get some points at Goodison it would be very helpful given that atserisk.

Alan J Thompson
32 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:31:07
Not much more to add other than we scored.

MotM? No, didn't see one of them and again Dyche far too late and too slow with substitutions.

Beto should have been pulled at least 10 minutes earlier and Harrison and Doucoure shouldn't have been far behind.

Still, 3 valuable points.

Joe McMahon
33 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:32:07
The points deducted is even more frustrating now. Seriously though, the chances missed last week and today need addressing. Beto needs some personal training from a proven goalscorer. Ian Wright often helps players, for example.

Gotta master some home wins now, then hopefully we will be fine.

Dave Abrahams
34 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:32:21
A deserved win but Jesus I age watching them hanging on to these 1-0 wins, better than losing? Definitely but my nerves were on edge the whole game.

Another very good game from Gana Gueye who was here, there and everywhere, my MotM.

Going to a party now, hope it calms my bloody nerves!

Robert Tressell
35 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:32:25
Well done Everton. We are doing this.
Jerome Shields
36 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:32:27
Thought Everton played well, contained Forest well in the second half and the Forest boost was too late and managed.

Garnier my Mom. Thought Beto lead the line well and helped to contain Forest.

What a wonderful weekend.

Chris Leyland
37 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:32:39
Alan, you must have been watching some other game as Garner was head and shoulders above any other player on the pitch by a mile. He was clear MotM.
Kieran Kinsella
38 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:34:13

Thanks for telling us your Mom's name. Does she own a shampoo company by any chance?

Brian Williams
39 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:34:40
Things'll look even better when we get some of those points back! 🤞💙
Ajay Gopal
40 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:35:11
Fantastic win! Everton were clearly better against a really poor Forest.

But the drop off in quality from Calvert-Lewin is stark. Both Beto and Chermiti when he came on were poor.

Really happy for McNeil to get his goal. The back 4 were rock solid – yes even Young! Garner and Gueye were excellent.

Doucoure has some great attributes but he is nowhere near a top No 10. Harrison was poor initially but he still worked hard all game.

We move up to 7 points, but a tough run of fixtures coming up. Now if only Dyche can sort out our home form, we should still survive.

Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:35:17
Just reviewing that MotM pick, yes James Garner was excellent and calms Everton, and me, down holding the ball well and always trying to use it, he can share that MotM with Gueye.
Paul Birmingham
42 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:39:06
Good well-deserved hard earned win.

Very good team effort, many MotM contenders, and a shame they didn't convert the first-half chances and kill the game off.

Great for the spirit of the club and a great start to Chrimbo.

Now to get that home win.

All have a Ball.


Christy Ring
43 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:39:29
Dave, I thought Garner and Gueye controlled midfield, but McNeil had a great 2nd half.
David West
44 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:41:04
Scrappy, tough game but we found a way to win. Missed Calvert-Lewin because Beto isn't at the same level. Get Coleman back ASAP as Young is a liability.

Garner ran that match for us, what a steal this lad could turn out to be. Doucouré worked himself to the ground again.
Mykolenko improves constantly. We are no longer an easy game for anyone, we will be tough and scrap for every point.

If we could be more clinical In front of goal, I wouldn't even be worried about beating the drop, it's our main concern as well as the depth of the sqaud or lack of depth.


Si Cooper
45 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:43:47
Job done at least.

I thought Gana did well enough and has now provided some creative touches that have helped us out in tight games.

Garner grew into game when he twigged he could get ball with space to be creative.

McNeil also improved as game went on. Harrison lacking confidence and close control is very wayward.

Defence did their job. Frustrating how many times easy options to get ball properly cleared were messed up by players trying to be too clever.

Danny Baily
46 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:45:24
What an important win. Beto is poor, but his presence alone does more for the team than Maupay did. And he will score a few if given the chances.

Great stuff. We look quite a bit better than the sides around us (actually, we look like a side sitting 11th...).

Michael Kenrick
47 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:45:48
Typical Sky, downplaying the goal, saying McNeil mishit it, Carragher scathing in his arrogance, Forest defense should have cleared the ball, keeper should have saved it, man on the line should have headed it clear, referee should have blown for Beto pushing in the build-up…

Oh, hang on, I need to step out of the Virtual Realty that is the massive Sky Sports - Premier League conspiracy to destroy Everton. They seem to be reading from the wrong script this evening!

Jerome Shields
48 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:45:55
Kieran #38,

Just spotted that, hoping it would be missed, but. Auto correct.

MotM, He was excellent, gave Forest problems with precision play and prevented Forest pushing up in support.

I would like Everton to get more points and tell the Premier League to stick their 10 points.

Michael Kenrick
49 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:48:58
And why didn't the VAR (who hates us) give a penalty against Doucoure? Nailed on.
Jerome Shields
50 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:50:34
Forest should have had a player sent off.
Si Cooper
51 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:51:19
Yes MK,

I heard League places read out on BBC radio earlier with no mention of Everton's points deduction.

Our points are clearly asterisked with appropriate footnote on Sky coverage.

Jamie Crowley
52 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:51:23
Michael @ 49 -


Alan J Thompson
53 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:52:04
Chris (#37);

No, Forest v Everton, but you must be easily pleased.

Christine Foster
54 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:52:28
Cor blimey guv, that was a hard watch!

Will take the points, scrappy game, much the better side but really should have controlled it better.

Well taken goal but really it will be remembered for a battling display.

Stuart Sharp
55 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:54:37
Garner, Gana and McNeil all excellent. Thoroughly deserved win, even if not pretty.

A few digs at Dyche on here... baffling. For the team to play like that under the current circumstances is a lot down to him, in my view.

No, I wouldn't pick Young, but we've got just the right manager for this weak squad and these circumstances.

Si Cooper
56 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:55:55
Jerome (50),

With the inconsistency of reffing, that was certainly a debating point. However, I am on record as saying I don't mind refs giving a little slack on second yellows so as long as Paul Tierney makes the same judgement in all games he refs then I'll let that one pass.

Plus with Doucoure getting away with a clear foul in box, then it has evened out in this game at least.

Robert Williams
57 Posted 02/12/2023 at 19:58:33
Danny 46,

I thought Maupay played well for us today – didn't he start the rout of Luton?

Ed Prytherch
58 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:00:42
Ref decisions pretty much split. They did not get the penalty and they also did not have a player sent off. That is not bad these days.

Beto is a tall Oumar Niasse. I hope that he is not on big wages or we will never get rid of him.

I agree with Gueye and Garner as Men of the Match for us.

Neil Lawson
59 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:01:28
A great result. An excellent team performance. There has to be a 'however' though.

We can be better because, whilst there were many terrific performances, there were a number which were average at best. Young was okay, but 'okay' is just not good enough.

Harrison played his part and was hardworking but was ineffective. Beto was a real disappointment and shows just how much we miss Calvert-Lewin. We know though that Dyche will not make changes unless forced to do so.

Let's all hope for a positive Christmas, a successful new year and a home 3rd round tie against Dartford and a Carabao semi against Port Vale. Perhaps 1995 beckons again.

Jamie Crowley
60 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:02:22
Christine @ 54,

"Cor blimey guv"?? Translation?

Something – holy crap – governor...

I need to work this phrase into my lexicon.

David West
61 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:06:15
Michael 47

Agree. The commentary throughout the match was all about how Forest were not playing well, not winning second balls, not winning headers in our box, not being aggressive enough, not creating enough.

Focusing the whole match on Forest had what they needed to do to win, what they were doing wrong, basically cheerleading them through the whole 90 minutes.

I think only once or twice the commentary said Everton had played well and praised Garner. They never mentioned that Tarkowski and Branthwaite won everything sent in the box. Never said how we had stopped them creating chances. Never mentioned Mykolenko keeping Gibbs-White quiet, or the mammoth shift Doucoure put in.

It can't just be me that sees this total bias every time we play.
I could watch Forest play Sheffield Utd and it would be fair and balanced Why us?? Fuck them!!!


Si Cooper
62 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:07:11
Jamie (60) - it’s definitely not Scouse terminology though, more Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins.
We all get Christine’s meaning however.
Ray Roche
63 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:08:15
Jamie, I was told by an old boy when I was young (I'm 75) that ‘Gawd blimey. (in south England accent) was actually an abbreviation of ‘God blind me' (for things I've seen) which was a short prayer used by soldiers in WW1 in the trenches.

Anyone else recollect that?

Danny Baily
64 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:10:05
Robert, there was a point today when I thought it might have been a good game for Maupay!

All I meant was that Beto's physical presence allows us to keep the system the same when Calvert-Lewin is out, which is a big help. Doucoure and Beto just need to get on the same page, and that will only come with game time.

Ray Roche
65 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:10:16
It must have been brought back by Tommies and eventually found its way into the mainstream vocabulary.
Christy Ring
66 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:11:15
All the talk on Sky and Forest manager, on why they didn’t get a peno, not a word on why Felipe didn’t get a red, another Konate decision by the ref, shocking.
George Cumiskey
67 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:11:30
A great performance, never really in trouble, but I thought Beto and Harrison were very poor, Garner brilliant.
Craig Walker
68 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:12:00
Pleased for Dyche and our amazing travelling supporters. I know Dyche has his detractors and they were out again after last weekend but I think he's just what we need in our predicament.

He's reinstated some pride and he deserves credit for that. We play decent stuff at times and the players look like they're playing for the badge. Small steps but he's at least got us on the right track.

Richard Duff
69 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:15:29
That was the most satisfying result of the season as the psychological impact of winning tough and bringing Luton back to us and off the bottom of the table is huge.

I thought all played well today. Beto was a handful with his hold-up play and was often taking both centre-backs to prevent flick ons. He's not a Champions League player, but will get a few important strikes this season.

Harrison is making the wrong decision and slow to cross but works so hard defensively to support the back 4, who were immense.

Garner and Gana very good but Tarkowski and Branthwaite are so solid, I don't even fear crosses coming in now.

Well done all.

Very happy!

Jamie Crowley
70 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:21:06
Ray @65,

If that's true, that's so freaking cool. Love that.

One of my favs I learned as a Yank is your two-finger wave. I guess it came from English archers? If they came under fire and survived, they'd jump up and wave two fingers at the enemy basically saying, "We're alive and have our hands, we can fire back so fuck off."

Si @ 62,

Even Americans are like, "What the fuck is that accent?" in the Mary Poppins. DVD was simply awful linguistically.

Back on track:

Everton were warrior-like today. Such a massive road win.

My MotM is McNeil. Should have had two, stupid dangerous today and solid. Gana and Garner, as others have said, excellent.

And my new man-crush in Branthwaite was again ridiculously good. That boy is so, so, so good it defies logic. He's always in the right place, an excellent defender, solid in the air defensively, and his feet are magic. That kid is an amazing footballer, and I never tire watching him.

Kudos to Pickford for that save, too. Huge moment. Great keeping.

There's minor stuff to bitch about, but not here, not today.


Bill Gienapp
71 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:21:57
Don't think you can overstate the massive psychological boost of those 3 points. With Newcastle and Chelsea on deck, there was a very real chance of getting sucked into a downward spiral that would have heaped an absurd amount of pressure on the Burnley match.

This sucks though. That initial air of defiance has given way to anger and disgust that we're forced to deal with this level of stress again. It's no fun.

Also, I have no idea why Young is still starting. It doesn't even have anything to do with Patterson at this point, not with Coleman now available.

John Keating
72 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:26:45
We have to be realistic. 10 points deducted, bottom of the league before the game. The only thing that counts, in my opinion, is results, however we get them.

Personally I do not give a shit how we play, how lucky we are, as long as we get out the Bottom 3 and get to mid table.

Well done to everyone today 3 points is all that matters.

Steve Hogan
74 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:30:06
The partnership between Tarkowski and Branthwaite gets stronger each week. Mykolenko is abs unrecognisable from the nervy footballer of just 12 months ago. And to cap it all, Garner's best game in a blue shirt since he arrived. Come on you minus 10 point Blues.
Raymond Fox
75 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:31:39
Well done Everton.

What no mention of Young!
He's become the new whipping boy for those who like to agree with other one eyed ones.

I'd sooner go with Dyche's opinion, after all his job depends on it.

Jamie Crowley
76 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:31:59
Steve Hogan @ 74 or anyone for that matter -

Since the Moyes era, have we had a better CB partnership than Tark-Branthwaite?

If so, who?

I don't think we have?

Barry Rathbone
77 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:37:45
Getting points from games like this is where it's at so well done Dychie and the boys.

Can't fathom some still getting into the manager at the drop of a hat.

Derek Knox
78 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:43:06
Yes, another good result away, I know we all see things differently but I was disappointed that Young started over Patterson, felt Harrison was in and out of the game, Doucoure was poor and could have cost us a penalty. Beto looked hapless up front, yet again !

Subs left too late, and only one used when four were the order of the day !

Barry Cowling
79 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:43:41
i see that young still keeps getting stick, I do wonder what game some people are watching, he is prefered by Dyche because he has much better positional sense and awareness of players around him, we are a better team when he plays compared to Patterson. Of course he hasnt got the legs now, but it would have been a risk swapping them late on. Beto, he hardly won a header all night but tries hard even though he frustrates me by his positional play, he tends to always let defender get goal side. Harrison clearly has talent but needs to show so much more, and for all the stick gueye gets, thats a game we would not have won if he were missing. Mykolenko is getting a high level of consistency and turning into quite a find. but, garner was MOM without doubt. In the end we came home with the points but made hard work of it, we should of won comfortably, its turning me into a nervous wreck, so its another large scotch for me
Ray Roche
80 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:44:29

Jamie, go on Google and put ‘ Agincourt two fingered salute’ in and it will give you some background to the V sign.

Derek Taylor
81 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:52:53
There are at least a dozen so called strikers in the lower leagues who would leave Beto for dead.]Whoever saw him as back up to CDL needs sacking, .Now !
Jerome Shields
82 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:55:40

Take your point.


Actually I thought Beto played well.Lead the line, created space for McNeill, Garnier and Doucoure going forward and caused Forest to think twice about pushing up, which delayed their tactics in the second half.Forest looked smug going in at the end of the first half with their tactics working.They did not get going with their planned tactics in the second half until it was too late!.It was noticeable that when Chermiti was not as tight on his marking defender.

Colin Glassar
83 Posted 02/12/2023 at 20:57:06
Poor Beto.
Jim Hardin
84 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:00:34
Great result! I am not saying we shouldn't fight the points deduction, but Everton's league form over the last five games has netted us the 10 points. So now here in December, the real season begins with us just two points off of safety. We won't win them all but neither will the teams around us.

On form, I will back Everton to get more points than Luton Town, Burnley, and Sheffield United. If we jump above any others, then great for the club. If we do this, then the coach and the players, who will have shouldered the load all the way through, will have done something immense!

We need Calvert-Lewin and Onana back and everyone else, including Young, to remain healthy enough to play.

Chris Gould
85 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:03:08
Barry #79, agree with every word.

Re. Young. Some fans just need a whipping boy. Dyche said in his presser on Friday that he sees the players training every day; he knows their weaknesses and strengths etc.

Yet some fans still think they know best. Patterson was awful at the start of the season, and Dyche wants to bring him along slowly. If he played him every game, he'd quickly be written off as shite. Dyche is protecting him, and we will reap the rewards. Look at the improvement in Mykolenko. So many had written him off. Dyche has improved so many players. Trust that he knows what he is doing with Patterson.

Derek Knox #78, how can you say four subs were the order of the day, when we won and didn't concede? That is a ridiculous comment. The players were so well drilled and organised, making those changes may very well have disrupted everything. We won and looked comfortable. So Dyche got the subs right. Again, he knows his players and their fitness levels. We top the charts for distance run, and that's without making many subs. Our boys are fit, and substitutions often have more of a negative impact than people realise.

Jerome Shields
86 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:08:03
The big advantage of Dyche is the play he can get out of ex-Burnley players.
Jamie Crowley
87 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:13:44
Ray -

A widely shared image on social media purportedly explains the historic origins of the “middle finger”, considered an offensive gesture in Western culture. The image makes the claim that the gesture derives from English soldiers at the Battle of Agincourt, France in 1415. This claim is false.

Booooo!!!! The false story is gold. The truth stinks in this instance. 😂

Mal van Schaick
88 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:15:04
Well done. Brilliant by Everton. We look like a different proposition these days.

Two home games to come to sort our home form out and climb back up the league to piss the Premier League off.

Phil Friedman
89 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:15:33
Jim @85,

At this moment I prefer Gana to Onana. Even his (Gana's) passing is improving. I suppose he goes away for a month of African Cup, so we'll see Onana soon.

John Atkins
90 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:19:56
Fantastic result today and over the moon.

Gordon scoring for those horrible Geordies is still a kick in the teeth.

Larry O'Hara
91 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:23:33
Jamie (87).

Probably false yes but the context is English archers were the best (eg Crecy/Poitiers) and if captured would apparently have their middle finger cut off to hinder their bowmanship. Hence the middle finger showed they still had it.

That said I would have thought a well-aimed arrow a better gesture…

Danny O’Neill
92 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:24:55
I love them more than life. Forget everything.

Everton forever.

Ray Roche
93 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:25:08
Jamie @87

The archers raised the index (first) finger and middle finger to create the V-sign, there are plenty of articles that back up the commonly held belief that that was the origin of the V-sign, both fingers being required to fire a longbow (as opposed to the single middle finger).

Jamie Crowley
94 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:29:53
Rueters says it's Roman based, not English?


Hey, I'm all for the archer narrative. 100%.

Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:29:55
I was more relaxed than I've been for a long time watching Everton win today, and have to give the team credit for working very hard.

I thought Young played well. You could see the Forest manager telling his players to try and get Elanga one-on-one with him and, other than getting done once, I thought he stood up to the test by using all the experience he has accumulated over the years, very well.

The centre-backs were great, and the left-back defended well until the last few minutes, whilst the engine room of Garner and Gueye kept us ticking along by keeping the pressure on Forest.

I think Beto needs games before a proper judgement can be made, and I think his replacement is not quite up to scratch physically just yet.

Doucoure doesn't stop, but this sometimes doesn't help his composure. McNeil also doesn't stop, but it's his lack of pace that sometimes makes me feel he would be a better player if he moved inside, and Harrison also works very hard, but I thought he was very, very poor in possession, except for when he helped create the goal.

We sometimes lack quality, but we are definitely developing as a team, and this can be attributed to every single player working hard for each other. This is definitely the only real basis for improvement other than the transfer window, so even if/when our finances improve, this basic ingredient has got to continue to grow. 🤞

Mike Gaynes
96 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:37:04
I'm just so proud of these guys. What an effort. They worked their socks off, controlled the ball for large stretches -- at one point it was 70% -- and locked things down at the back so completely that Forest didn't get a shot on goal until the 83rd minute.

The only players who failed to measure up in my view were Young and Beto, and I don't blame either one. They both worked relentlessly, constant effort. Young was overmatched by Elanga, and Beto clearly isn't accustomed to the target man role. But neither ever gave up for a second.

Agree that Garner was MotM, but Branthwaie and Mykolenko excite me more every time I see them play. Both were simply unbeatable today. And except for one dangerous mistake on the ball, Tarkowski was monumental, inspirational.

And in a less elegant vein... shove that up your collective colon, Premier League. We are going to beat you.

Jamie Crowley
97 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:46:33

Young was overmatched by Elanga due in part because his legs are gone. He also had a terrible foul after getting skinned and should have been shown a yellow.

Beto is slow, and he missed a wide open net. What's a striker for?

Look, I'm not going to bash the crap out of them (tough to hold it in check regarding Young), but neither was very good, as you point out by saying they "failed to measure up".

Win's a win. Three points.

Tony Abrahams
98 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:52:21
I can't agree with you two Americano's on Ashley Young, I definitely thought that Forest finished the game stronger by getting in down our left side a couple of times towards the end of tonight's game.

This doesn't mean that I want Young in the team, it's just me giving credit where I think it's due with regards his performance tonight.

Tommy Carter
99 Posted 02/12/2023 at 21:57:15
Chris @85,

I take your point and, as much as training is important, what happens at the weekend fixture is more important than anything else. And tens of thousands of people can see that Young is exposed as a weakness in our team every single game.

Only when forced into playing Patterson in the back 4 did we see our best defensive performance of the season away to West Ham.

This is a man who saw enough on the training ground every day to suggest to him that Michael Keane was his starting centre-back for the season.

Colin Glassar
100 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:04:12
If we move Beto into midfield, can he become another Joelinton?
Paul Birmingham
101 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:06:38
Ray, it"s a good read.

I've read as well in history books that, if the English or Welsh longbowmen got taken prisoner by the French during the 100 Years War, they'd cut their 1st and middle fingers off. This was in recognition, of how vital these skilled longbowmen were to the English armies during this War.

This also raised the origin of the V gesture from the English armies to the French and their allies to a gesture which is part of modern life.

Christopher Timmins
102 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:09:28
Another away win and more encouragement to believe we are now a mid-table side.

Garner ran the game for us and the back 4 were superb!

Newcastle up next and we can take something from that game as well.

Dyche in!

Mark Ryan
103 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:13:03
Looking forward to beating the skunks and giving Clare Balding's twin a warm welcome back to Goodison.


Mike Connolly
104 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:16:33
Hope Calvert-Lewin makes a quick recovery because them two replacements are absolutely crap. I think Rondon was better than the two of them.
Jeff Armstrong
105 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:18:13
Young played well tonight, despite the pre-judgement and even more shamefully, the post judgement.

Give your heads a wobble, he was as good as anyone tonight.

Brian Wilkinson
106 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:24:36
Newcastle goalie Pope went off with a shoulder injury, they are dropping like flies, someone needs to get a good hard but fair tackle in the first few minutes on Gordon Thursday night.

3 points today well earned, nervy at times but job done.

After Forest fans singing about cheating, it could come back to bite them on the backside, with the signings they made last season. The volume was turned up a couple of notches when they sang it for sure by Sky, they made sure the viewers heard it loud and clear.

Neil Tyrrell
107 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:26:33
Very happy with the win and made up for our loud and proud away support. Thought the whole team did well while acknowledging their obvious limitations, ie, our ball retention is abysmal at times, but we were much better than Forest and deserved the 3 points.

Tough ones coming up Thursday and Sunday, Man Utd barely got a sniff v the Geordies today.

Danny Baily
108 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:31:36
Jeff 105,

There was a scare early on when Elanga tore past him, but after that Young held his own. Further up the field, he showed his class. His detractors have a point though: against better sides, he's a liability.

Derek Thomas
109 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:43:04
Jamie @ 94;

Some say; "History has its truth, and so has legend. Legendary truth is of another nature than historical truth. Legendary truth is invention whose result is reality. Furthermore, history and legend have the same goal; to depict eternal man beneath momentary man."

We just call it 1-Nil… (print the legend)!

And, in the voice and manner of Magnus Magnusson...more Importantly - No Yellows.

Don't these yellows 'reset' soon?

Dan Parker
110 Posted 02/12/2023 at 22:43:51
Some real heroes emerging in this team. The damage was done in the early Moshiri years but Sean and his team are showing a real Dogs of War spirits.

For a mid 40s guy I actually love this team.

Graham Mockford
113 Posted 02/12/2023 at 23:30:53
This team lacks quality but what it doesn't lack is workrate. Dyche has to take credit for that.

Back four all played well (including Young). Garner was the best player on the pitch by some distance, McNeil provided that little bit of magic and Gana also played well.

But fuck, we struggle without Calvert-Lewin. Beto is so far off the pace, it beggars belief. It looked like someone had put some lead weights in his boots!

Sam Hoare
114 Posted 02/12/2023 at 23:37:33
Good performance. Great result.

Not sure Beto will ever be a top striker but don't judge him on tonight. He's not played much in the last month and only just recovered from a knock. Even when not playing well, he gives us an outlet and works hard.

Tough December to come but we're playing like a solid mid-table team, not a relegation one. Injuries may be the thing that details us but the difference between us now and this time last season is very encouraging. Going in the right direction.

Kevin Molloy
115 Posted 02/12/2023 at 23:39:49
Well, he took over a year ago when we were heading for the chop. He's not doing too bad, is he, all things considered.

Just 12 short months ago we were all on the bus with Frank Lampard and his beanie hat heading into hell.

Dan Parker
116 Posted 02/12/2023 at 23:46:56
10 points injustice aside, the team has improved massively. And the football is better than many games under Carlo.

Still a massive ask to stay up surrounded by corruption.

Dean Williams
117 Posted 02/12/2023 at 00:00:51
Jeff @105.

It means nothing that Young was okay today, he's been crap and living on the edge every other game. Give your head a wobble fella.

Chris Hockenhull
118 Posted 03/12/2023 at 00:11:37
Kevin (115).

Don't know your age but wonderful last line of your post has a tinge of a San Francisco band playing at Haight Ashbury 1967 with The a dead & The Airplane… “ Frank Lampard & His Beanie Hat Heading To Hell”

What an amazing album cover that could have been, designed by the wonderful Sid Griffin….. let's see if anyone gets on to this???

Dale Self
119 Posted 03/12/2023 at 00:24:19
Forest has a larger playable squad and yet I thought we had better legs. Perhaps that is down to organisation. Gana began to show some comfort on the ball and proper half space runs that helped recycle possession well. Garner advances even more. His temperament and spatial awareness are a real asset for us. As others mentioned on LF Branthwaite and Tarkowski have become a formidable spine for our defence. The building blocks and fundamental play is there.

We all see misunderstandings on final passes. I think this gets worked out soon. Beto's decision-making is challenged in this league but give him some time to find a niche. His strength and holdup play gives us a different look. At some point, his preferences become known and he will learn what passes players can deliver.

The defence is there given what we have. I know Young is a target but we are maxing what we got. The pack defending in transition gave up nothing, at least from first memory. Branthwaite coming out to quell danger while Tarkowski sits back is also working. And finally we are finding the pass out of our third. It is coming together even as key players went missing.

Dale Self
120 Posted 03/12/2023 at 00:25:43
Jerry! I need a miracle.
Paul Kossoff
121 Posted 03/12/2023 at 00:42:14
Chris 118.

You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot
For a taste of your elegant pride
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride
At least I'm enjoying the ride, yeah
At least I'm enjoying the ride

Rather the Premier League bastards in the bucket than us.😀

Paul Kossoff
122 Posted 03/12/2023 at 00:54:53
Has Doucouré been promised a free transfer if we get relegated? I've not seen a more blatant attempt at giving away a penalty as that one. Maybe his agent had a word with a betting organization and arranged a few quid for him. If a Forest player had done that then we would be up in arms.

I'm a Blue but even I shouted penalty on that one. Only an amateur in the Sunday league with a bad hangover wanting to get sent off would do that, what a fucking idiot, Dopecoure.

Kevin Molloy
123 Posted 03/12/2023 at 01:02:23
Chris, yes indeed, I'm sure there could be one or two album covers from that period to draw on for the satanic imagery needed.
Mike Gaynes
124 Posted 03/12/2023 at 01:19:45
Danny, Jeff and others, Elanga blew past Young off the dribble four times by my count, and Young was not credited with a single tackle. Young had to stand off him to keep from being beaten, and as a result Elanga had two clear shooting chances and barely missed with that curler.

Young was excellent on the ball and made some really good quick passes in tight areas to get out of our end -- probably the best he has been this season -- but he was thoroughly overmatched by Elanga.

Beto actually did a splendid job defensively -- three or four headed clearances off set pieces -- but the guy can't shoot. He's had 18 shots in Premier League games this season, only one on target. So the only way he's gonna score is via crosses in the box, and he hasn't shown any sign yet that he can anticipate those. Twice today Doucoure sent low balls in from the right that Beto didn't drive towards to challenge for. And the third time, when he did make a near post run, Doucoure lifted the cross to the far post.

Mark Taylor
125 Posted 03/12/2023 at 01:22:47
Great result, OK performance.

Quite a few upsides. McNeil (not just because of his goal) looks to be 90% plus of the player we saw second half of last season, in a good way – he looked a quality player at that point.

He does take a while to build after injury or absence. Maybe it's because he is not that much of an athlete. In a few games, he might be the player we saw back then, ie, arguably our best.

Our centre-backs are building a really good partnership. Branthwaite is quite a prospect. If we have to sell, not him, It's a relief not to have Keane anywhere near the starting XI.

I am in awe of Mykolenko. A limited player but by hard work is turning himself into a solid Premier League ledt-back and even now offers a little bit going forward.

After a few poor-ish games, Garner was a really bright point and Gana, for all his shortcomings, still looks like a proper Premier League player.

The downsides? Beto is a unit but limited. He might come good but he doesn't look like a natural goalscorer to me. Elanga had Young on toast. Fortunately Forest were too stupid to give him the ball often enough.

And despite the cross for the goal, Harrison perplexes me. He looks busy and eager enough but he doesn't win headers or tackles, can't keep hold of the ball, passes poorly, struggles to beat a man and despite the busyness, is surprisingly slow. Our right side is very poor.

Christine Foster
126 Posted 03/12/2023 at 02:21:00

Yes, "Cor Blimey" is a bit archaic now, I know, still used where I am in New Zealand, but that may be because where I am is 50 years behind reality! I think both sets of meanings ("God blind me") are correct which when combined with accent and dialect of the English oft came out as "Cor Blimey... I don't believe what I am seeing" lol.

The two-fingered salute, well, that's a great story about archers but there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest any truth to it. Few wanted prisoners of war and most were killed on the field of battle, not just their fingers removed!

Ian Campbell
127 Posted 03/12/2023 at 02:23:32
Rumour has it that them loveable Skunks have adapted our cards that say 'corrupt' and replaced it with 'correct'.

Apparently they will be displaying 3 thousand of these cards along with their usual blow-up T-Rexes on Thursday. Oh, how I love these shower of self-righteous pricks.

Derek Knox
128 Posted 03/12/2023 at 02:39:43
Mark @125, I was made up when we got Harrison, albeit on loan, but now he is almost a regular starter he has, apart from the odd game, been very inconsistent, and like several before him (Gomes etc) tends to appear to disappear in games. Maybe because he is more left-side oriented he finds it alien to play on the right.

Hopefully there is some money available (in the January Window) and we can get a naturally right-footed player, or even, the luxury these days of a player who can play with both feet on either side of the pitch. Do these type of players exist anymore?

Jamie Crowley, I bet your house was a 'happy house today' with our win and Mrs C witnessing a Burnley rout of The Blades (well blunted today and hitherto).

Christine, the 'two-fingers salute' you referred to, I have heard many times as being attributed to English Archers displaying to the Frogs that they were still capable of firing a bow. It was rumoured (rightly or wrongly) that the French would cut the fingers of the best bowmen to render their potential, null and void!

Not pointing any fingers there by the way! :-)

Phil Lewis
129 Posted 03/12/2023 at 03:07:41
Excellent effort, thoroughly deserved the points. Continue to grind these results out and we will be safe come May.

And who knows? We may be even collecting a Cup by then.

Certain players are playing below par. But given yesterday's collective team effort, it would be grossly unfair to name them. Let's try and keep confidence and application to an optimum level for the coming months. We defended magnificently particularly under pressure at the end.

If the reduction of penalty points actually happens, all well and good. But let's concentrate on the predicament at hand and we'll be fine. Great show yesterday, COYB.

Dan Parker
130 Posted 03/12/2023 at 03:24:27
Great comment, Phil.

On the whole, the team is playing extremely well compared to recent years.

Bob Parrington
131 Posted 03/12/2023 at 03:41:14
David @61,

Quite right. Clearly censorship by the Premier League on media outlets. I heard virtually nothing from the Everton fans, which is a denial of right IMO. I wonder if this is actually legal. Stuff Premier League and Sky. I wish I had the dosh to attempt legal action on the dead-brainers.

Re the game, Garner was outstanding, great goal by McNeil. Good effort all round.

Comment: To me, this team looks the fittest we've had in many years. Bodes well.

Jamie Crowley
132 Posted 03/12/2023 at 03:53:58

Next time we score three, I'm cueing up, "Cor Blimey!!"


The house was very happy, but there's college football here...

Son #3 happy with Alabama win. Check.
Son #4, as of the time of this post, biting his nails with Florida State. Jury out.
Dad - Not happy. I graduated from Tulane University and we lost today, missing our chance at two consecutive years of major bowl games. Gutted. But we'll always be 2022 Cotton Bowl Champs - which was akin to Marine winning the FA Cup!

But concerning the "real" football from your perspective, we were over the moon!!

Steve Brown
133 Posted 03/12/2023 at 05:14:27
That was a good result and it's great for the Blues fans to have something to cheer after a horrible few weeks.

My sons almost combusted when the team was announced with Young at right-back! But I thought he had a decent game against Elanga – after the first 5 minutes, he began to stand off him and use his positional play to manage him. His passing was also good and helped us relieve pressure.

Beto needs time and games, so let's not judge him too early. He is certainly physical enough for the Premier League and works hard for the team.

Mike Gaynes
134 Posted 03/12/2023 at 05:50:45
Jamie, I never knew you were Green Wave. I was a sportscaster for WVUE in 1983. Covered some Tulane football and basketball (Hot Rod).

Bob #131, you should have been watching the game in the US. The traveling Blues almost drowned out the commentators on NBC Peacock.

Steve #133, agree on Beto. He scored a goal every 200 minutes over two seasons in Serie A, so obviously he knows where the net is. But I looked up some of his goals for Udinese and found mostly poacher's goals in the box (one nicely assisted by Deulofeu), so he may require more service than the current Everton attack can give him.

Alan J Thompson
135 Posted 03/12/2023 at 06:19:25
Watching here in Perth, Australia, the crowd noises did seem muted for most of the game and they do seem to have adopted a habit of not showing anything until 10 or 15 seconds before kick-off.

Previously, you saw the players coming out, lining up, shaking hands, taking a knee etc but now you don't even get shown the line-ups which can only lead you to the conclusion that they are trying to hide something for a reason or at somebody's behest.

Paul Ferry
136 Posted 03/12/2023 at 07:11:48
Dean Williams - 4 posts - the irony of you asking anyone to give yer head a wobble after the shite you have posted on this thread is beyond irony.

We won. We got three points. We got the job done,

There is not a single syllable in your relentless sad and pathetic drivel on here that in the faintest way acknowledges this.

Give yer head a big fucking massive wobble lad

Steve Brown
137 Posted 03/12/2023 at 07:28:44
Mike @ 134, that’s interesting on how Udinese provided service to Beto in Italy.

While I have been impressed by the work-rate of Harrison and McNeil in tracking back, they have not really provided many crosses to the striker in the last few games. McNeil was much better yesterday in affecting the game to be fair.

Paul Greenly Jones
138 Posted 03/12/2023 at 07:37:43
Great battling win yesterday. No matter what anyone says the 10 point deduction would have hurt our players and could quite easily have affected them negatively. Great to see them respond with that display and credit to Dyche as well for managing the situation as he is currently. Referee could (should) have awarded them a penalty against Doucoure, and a second yellow for their Brazilian defender Felipe, so dodgy decisions all square on the day for me.
Laurie Hartley
139 Posted 03/12/2023 at 07:46:26
Very happy with the 3 points and performance. This squad has some fight in them and displayed a high degree of tenacity. That’s why they won the 50/50’s, the second balls, and the game. Long may it continue.

Derek # 128, someone on here recently suggested Dyche play Patterson in front of Young. I think that is a good idea. I seem to remember Moyes played Seamus in an advanced roll early on in his career. In my opinion Patterson has the talent and temperament to become a top player for us. I really want to see Patterson on Gordon’s case on Thursday.

Lastly, I liked what I heard from our manager in his post match interview. He knows what we the fans want first and foremost and he is driving this home with the players.

Peter Mills
140 Posted 03/12/2023 at 08:04:32
I watched the game under unusual circumstances, in an Irish bar in Dubai, a singer performing throughout the performance, no commentary so nothing to influence my opinion.

To me it was an excellent performance, very gritty, not very pretty, but the attitude of all the players was the total opposite of the spineless displays we have seen over recent seasons. Credit is due to Sean Dyche and his team for instilling that, under the most testing of circumstances.

Without the points deduction, a draw would have been ok. To earn 3 points can be regarded as clawing back 2 of the missing 10.

I had no sense of how loud our fans were, but I can imagine they were pretty raucous, and a rendition of We Shall Not Be Moved is always special. A good day all round.

Dave Cashen
141 Posted 03/12/2023 at 08:14:06
Pickford - Great when he needed to be

Fullbacks - solid.

Braithwaite - Imperious

Tarkowski - I've been critical, but how can you not love a guy who defends as if his life depends upon it.

Harrison, Gana, McNeil - Tireless. Stunning strike from Dwight.

Garner - Did Paul Bracewell shave the sides of his head and sneak on the pitch yesterday ?

Duke - Always a Handful

Betto - Needs a goal, but put a real shift in. Hopefully more to come.

Just like a tree that's standing by the water side

Ian Riley
142 Posted 03/12/2023 at 08:16:29
Great performance. Dyche's methods coming across. Hard fought game and 3 points. Keep pushing forward lads. Well done to the away fans. A little nippy last night and hopefully everyone made it home safe.

Keep the faith.

Derek Knox
143 Posted 03/12/2023 at 08:42:01
Paul F @ 136, your post with DW in mind reminded me that he is not alone on here, we won as you say, but that isn't good enough for some. Just when the majority of us are relishing the 3 points in a hard fought game, there are one or three or even more naysayers trying to hex that.

Not sure if they get some sort of morbid satisfaction, of going against the grain, being argumentative, or they are RS in disguise. Either way I wish thy would either change their scripts or just Fuck Off !

Apologies Editors, but flies in the ointment are never a good sign !

Hugh Jenkins
144 Posted 03/12/2023 at 08:51:17
Ian (127), would those be the same "Skunks" whoa are still under inquiry with HMRC for Tax Fraud?
Tony Abrahams
145 Posted 03/12/2023 at 08:59:11
Steve@133, I thought Young used all his experience to stand up and jockey because he knew Elanga was too quick for him, especially when he kept getting blown off by the dribble, or should I say drivel, Mike!

Sounds like the perfect day Peter M, and I’m sure the victory will have eased the pain of having to pay through the nose for a bevy in Dubia!

Jeff Armstrong
146 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:00:46
Derek 143, agreed, in our reality we’re on 17 points and sitting comfortably in mid table, a relief after two seasons of struggling, and yet some people are not content with that unfortunately.
Michael McFarlane
147 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:01:26
A really important hard fought win. The team spirit and resilience is growing, particularly important after the knock of the points deduction, so credit to Dyche, his back room staff and the team. Without the deduction, we'd be in 11th place - after recent seasons, I'll happily take that as a sign of progress in the right direction.

Garner was impressive, Idrissa was solid and the pair controlled the second half.

Mykolenko has been a revelation this year that I never expected. He's a lot stronger physically and mentally playing with more confidence and tactical nouse both defensively and getting into the opposition box. Empathy says the effects of war must have had an effect, plus the step up coming into the Prem, but he's a firm starter no doubt this year. Hope to see continuing improvement.

Great second half from O'Neill. Looking more like end of last season. Our left side is much stronger than our right side, where we are vulnerable defensively and struggling offensively. Young is a lunge away from a red card every game. He hasn't the speed to deal with the young wingers he's up against week in week out. OK some good crosses from him but it's not enough. Elange, and also Gibbs-White, had good chances that more clinical players would have slotted and this would have been a different end result. Dyche needs to call time on Young as a starter. The issue is exacerbated by Harrisons lack of pace, quality and end product. Ok I get it he works hard but he's not imo at, or can reach, the standard we need if we're to progress. I expect we'll see glimpses this year but it won't be enough. A good friend who's a Leeds fan said he's watched him for years and that was his verdict. I expect we'll be shopping for wingers soon enough, when we have some funds that is.

Betto needs a run to see if he can step up. Lack of good crosses didn't help. I expected him to be more of a handful yesterday. It'll take time. I think he has explosive acceleration over short distances and is a strong lad who'll work hard, so there's every reason to hope he can make a good contribution. I do worry when players are sold on tick though, but fingers crossed he makes a Mykolenko style improvement.

Two solid centre halfs. I just hope we can hold onto Branthwaite and he becomes a one-club man as he's excellent. Tarks is solid and fearless and leading the team well.

An important win. This team is only going up the league and hopefully catapulted by the league returning our points in the new year. If not, confident we'll be safe anyway. UTT!!

Ian Bennett
148 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:21:27
Just a little shout out for Mykolenko. Steady improvement in last 7 odd matches.

Solid at the back and looks more if a threat going forward. Hopefully still more to come.

Peter Moore
149 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:22:16
147, I saw it the same as you Michael and have the almost identical views based on what I saw, watching on tele. I think Harrison may come good though, with better support on his side. That is more likely to come from Patterson than 38 year old Young on recent evidence hey.
Anyway, a cracking win, well played lads on the pitch and all giving the superb support from the stands. UTFT.
Danny O’Neill
150 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:26:56
Not a lot to add.

Garner man of the match. Keep him central, a debate I had with my brother before the match yesterday, who suggested he should play right back over Young.

I'm not advocating the continuous selection of Young, but play. Garner central.

Beto wasteful. Gueye doing his thing. Sometimes he looks like a 34 year old playing in a 24 year old body.

Branthwaite majestic. I almost want him to stop it otherwise he'll be off to somewhere like the Etihad before too long.

Tarkowski is just solid. I like his leadership, but also that he plays football with a smile on his face, even when fronting up. I bet he's a proper wind up merchant, but keeps his head.

McNeil could have had another had it not been for great last ditch defending. But what a strike when it came. Look at the build up. Gueye's pass is key as is McNeil's touch to take it down on a six pence before hitting one of the sweetest strikes you're likely to see.

Forget the football. Is there something about playing in all blue? Should we?

And watching nostalgic videos. The debate I've raised previously. Blue socks or white socks? I see Dixie, Alex Young and the 66 cup winning team in blue socks. And Joe Royle's dogs of war with their blue/black ones.

Sorry, I digress from what was a great win. Newcastle next.

Danny O’Neill
151 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:29:33
I've said many times Ian, I've liked Mykolenko since he joined.

Great attitude and still young. Often the first over to the away supporters at the end regardless.

He will get better and, as we've seen, he's got the odd goal in him.

Peter Moore
152 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:32:41
I also thought Beto is a valid and correct option when DCL is out.
The goal we got, at the very start of the phase of play, he won the initial free kick with his strength and determination. He was also in the middle taking attention of defenders when the ball went over him to McNeil who had time then for his composed, excellent finish.
The chance Beto missed was not a sitter, he had the defender to go over (Boli) so had to loft it somewhat. It was lofted a tad too much sadly. I think a goal, hopefully soon, will change his luck. His effort is commendable and his ability is not as lacking as some believe I feel. Fingers crossed he gets some goals soon, if DCL is out for a bit. DCL himself of course, has had no goal return for his recent games, with some poor finishing. Both are good players though in my book, giving their all for Everton. They'll do for me. COYB.
Jimmy Carr
153 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:50:48
We're riding our luck a little bit away from home but that was an essential 3 points and I don't really care.

Bemused by 'toffee web football experts' still calling for Patterson, oh dear. Some selective memory issues going on. I suspect Dyche is working on him behind the scenes, I've heard that's also known as improving a player through coaching. Something Dyche actually gets paid to do. If that fails - because it's obvious Patterson is positionally deficient at right back if you actually watch him and stop ranting about Young - he could come back to the first 11 in Harrison's position. We'll see but to be honest, I'm not bothered as long the team gets results.

We seem to have figured out a reliable approach away from home, Dyche needs to figure out a way to get more results at Goodison if we want to get home and dry this season, but we've definitely turned a corner and don't look anything like the team who turned out under Lampard.

Well done blues and Sean Dyche for instilling some fight in them.

Eddie Dunn
154 Posted 03/12/2023 at 09:51:47
I think Harrison used to sometimes appear on the left for Leeds, cutting-in on his right foot. He has a good long range shot on him.
I do think he is more productive when Patterson is behind him but I can see Dyche favouring Young mainly because he does read the game well.
It was interesting toawrds the end of the game when Mc Neil drifted inside, into the ten position...he created mayhem.
I would like to see him played there with Danjuma on the left.
Doucoure puts in a huge shift but having watched the highlights(aswell as the live game) he was very lucky not to concede the penalty for dragging Yates through a hedge!
Ray Jacques
155 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:16:45
In London for a week dog sitting whilst eldest is on holiday in Singapore (where did it all go wrong?).

So pleased with the result last night. It's strange but the 10-point deduction has reignited my bond with Everton that the owner and chairman had put under massive strain with their chaotic mismanagement. My ire at the board has disappeared and I just want to be a proud Evertonian again, not embarrassed.

Anyway, nice walk in Greenwich Park this afternoon followed by a few pints and happy to wear my Toffees bobble hat!!

Duncan McDine
156 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:18:16
Sean Dyche has got this little group of players following a system which is simple enough for them to understand... and that's enough for me right now.

We dominated the opposition in their own back yard and, if not for wasteful finishing, it could've been more comfortable (the last 10 minutes were a bit nervy). However, I agree with the majority, Doucoure got lucky with the shirt-pull in the box and that could've turned things round very quickly. Forest should've been down to 10 men in fairness, so they also got lucky.

Playing this way, we should stay up, despite the unjust 10-point deduction.

Mike Doyle
157 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:23:15
The red Echo mentioned in their report that the Forest supporter's chants and songs include references to poverty in the Merseyside area.

Apparently Luton fans did the same when we played them. I couldn't hear on TV but I guess Rob H or Danny O could confirm?

Given the state of Nottingham and, in particular, Luton (2 absolute shit holes for TW posters fortunate enough never to have visited either location) you wonder why these songs persist – perhaps a sad leftover from the 1980s?

To change topic: Ashley Young v Anthony Gordon next week. That'll be interesting to watch.

Christopher Timmins
158 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:30:36

I agree that Beto was wasteful, however, we were a better team when he was on the pitch last night and we had difficulty in getting up the pitch in the last part of the game when he went off.

Doucoure is no pass master but he has very good first touch, maybe that's why he scores so many goals.

We are going in the right direction, there will be ups and downs along the way, that's what mid-table teams experience, but we have a great chance of playing in a Cup Final this year if our level of performances continue on the up.

Jeff Armstrong
159 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:30:47
Mike 157,

'Feed the scousers' came over loud and clear on Sky Sports, unlike our censored chanting at Goodison last week.

I'm personally not particularly bothered by this long-standing seasonal song though, let's not go all wokey like the RS victims.

Derek Knox
160 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:32:09
Ray @ 155,

Hopefully the dog is a blue, an Everton Tripe Hound, or even a Kerry Blue. Oh don't tell me it is a Red Setter! I feel for you mate. :-)

Andy Meighan
161 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:34:00
Bit rich of Forest and Luton fans singing about poverty in the Merseyside area.

As Mike points out 2 absolute shitboxes.

Makes me howl when they sing sign on etc, everyone I know either works or have retired having worked their whole lives.

Shows you how brain-dead these cretins are.

I've also heard from a mate last night that Newcastle fans have printed flyers saying 'Correct' not 'Corrupt', and are planning to display them on Thursday.

"Be careful what you wish for" is all I can say

Les Callan
162 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:36:26
Some cheek those Nottingham fans singing about our poverty. Yes Nottingham of all places. Home of the scab miners.
David Hallwood
163 Posted 03/12/2023 at 10:54:57
Danny (#150) thank you for the 'on the frontline' reporting. But now you've mentioned socks, for me it's blue with white tops.

It's a pity we can't import pictures but I've got pictures of Dixie Dean & Alan Ball wearing them and that's good enough for me.

Nick Page
164 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:05:17
Exactly this, Les. It's every game. A tired old cliche from the early '80s.

Shows what a load of morons these people are – like chanting about gays when playing Brighton. I just think it shows their total ignorance.

Danny O’Neill
165 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:17:28
I was probably not articulate enough in calling Beto wasteful, Christopher. That was more to his finishing and in particular that gilt-edged chance that he skied. He was however a proper handful for the Forest defence.

On Patterson, we have to wait and see. Every player is different. Every manager sees players differently. To repeat myself and if we take our Donegal-tinted glasses off, I remember more one or two raised eyebrows when a young Seamus Coleman arrived at Everton. He was only 20 and we sent him on loan to Blackpool.

Give the kid time. There are never any guarantees in football, but he may come good. He certainly has the right attitude.

Patterson, Mykolenko and Branthwaite marshalled by the smiling General Tarkowski. That could be solid foundations at the back.

I forgot to mention Pickford. Another match-winning save.

James Marshall
166 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:19:07
I got stuck on an overpacked train into London yesterday, jammed in with a load of Arsenal fans for 35 minutes and they all have a massive amount of respect for what we're doing, along with a shed load of support for our cause, which was lovely to hear.

They also all believe we'll stay up, and were all very encouraging in our fight against the Premier League. They were also slightly embarrassed at being part of the favoured 6 which is also interesting to learn.

Jim Wilson
167 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:25:56
I thought the defence did well but Gueye and Garner were superb. The ground covered by Gueye was tremendous and he kept on popping up everywhere with challenges. A great result!

Premier League 0, Everton 1

Alan McGuffog
168 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:32:03
Let's face it, most football chanting is moronic. Fifty-something blokes in replica shirts singing that we are by far the greatest team the world has ever seen. Really?

The Red Echo is now referring to "poverty abuse". Jesus wept, another hate crime!

As someone posted, you just ignore this shite.

Peter Mills
169 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:47:33
Tony #145,

That pain hasn't hit yet. My brother-in-law, who lives over here, has paid for everything so far. He's going to give me the tally for 50% of what he's spent when we head home on Wednesday – I suspect it's going to make my eyes water.

Derek Knox
170 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:53:41
James M @ 166, it is always heartwarming to hear positive stories like your experience yesterday, from other sets of fans.

The pub I tend to go to in Frodsham has a pretty eclectic clientele as far as football fans go. Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Everton and Chester. I was talking to a non-attending Man Utd fan the other day just generally about football.

He said that, in his eyes, Everton fans were a totally different and good group compared to Liverpool fans, who he had no time for. He even said Man City fans were well above the Red Shite too!

John Keating
171 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:55:24

I've heard all this shit about scousers all my working life. Never bothered even when young.

I usually turn it on the arseholes that raise it.

I meet some really senior guys and invariably as soon as they hear my accent the shit starts.

One of my usuals is to play on it. Tell the guy he looks like shit and obviously strung out after an all-night drug and booze session, crap clothes etc so being a scouser if he needs anything just to let me know!

Usually shuts them up.

If it's the dole comments, then it's just how crap they're dressed and offer them a few bob to get rigged out.

Robert Tressell
172 Posted 03/12/2023 at 11:59:51
I'm glad you referenced Beto's hard work and nuisance factor, Danny. He is not a brilliant striker by any stretch but he gives the opposition something to deal with.

I don't however believe he missed a gilt-edged chance.

Each week I see Haaland and other celebrated strikers miss chances like that. The ball comes to them very fast and they are being closed down fast too. I thought he adjusted well to go with his right foot but just got a touch too much on it.

Haaland is brilliant but also fortunate that he will get chance after chance like that, and usually a miss isn't critical. They win anyway. Beto has scraps and no opportunity to build up his rhythm and confidence.

As for comments on Patterson, he's obviously got talent – but he is very immature and at 22 he's absolutely not a kid. He's unusually immature for someone that age, playing more like an 18- or 19-year-old.

Like an earlier poster (can't find it now, apologies) I expect Dyche and the coaching staff are working very hard with him. In an ideal world, he'd get a season at Preston or Anderlecht or even Rangers to wise up – but our squad is so light, we don't have the luxury. I do think he'll be our regular by the end of the season though, barring injuries.

Raymond Fox
173 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:13:28
Dyche has the players fit, alert and organised, you can't ask for much more.

We will stay up whatever happens with the appeal, we just need to have luck for a change with injuries.

I wouldn't mind seeing Danjuma on the field more but Dyche seems to like to stick to his tried and tested which I can't criticise him for.

Two tough home games to come: Newcastle are in and out and have a few injuries at the moment, Chelsea are always hard to beat.

Alan McGuffog
174 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:13:36
John... a great tactic. I live now in South Cheshire and whilst by no means in the super tax bracket I'm fortunate enough to have a comfortable standard of living. Decentish motor, mortgage paid off, final salary pension etc.

I could only smile when I'd go into my local, early doors Friday. Used to be this bloke (actually I kinda liked him) and get "Mind your wallets", "You got my hub caps" etc.

He was a Stokey, arse hanging out of his kecks, thick as mince. Christ on a bike!

Mark Ryan
175 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:31:22
I believe it is unlikely that the Appeal will overturn our deduction. The sanction is here is to stay. It does demonstrate that we were right all along and it proves that the club was being run appallingly and our dissent and frustration was hugely justified against our owner and Kenwright.

We are as guilty as a puppy stood by a pile of steaming shit. We simply need to get over the line this season. If Dyche keeps us up and we can win the Carabao Cup he deserves manager of the season.

Danny O’Neill
176 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:36:15
Robert, it comes down to different players developing at different ages. Rooney was ready at 16. That's a freak occurrence. Depending on position, most others are into their 20s until they establish themselves. As you say, maybe there is work going on at Finch Farm.

Take Mykolenko, he was written off by a few on these very pages. He's coming good.

Alan, I get it most weeks whether I'm travelling to Goodison or going to an away match in the South.

Sign on. We pay your benefits etc. Most of them are from London council estates and drink in Wetherspoons.

Water off a Duck's back as they say.

John Keating
177 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:36:36
Yeah that’s another one!!
For me I’d just say haven’t got his hub caps but I’ve got a few dozen if he’s interested?

Thing is if these arseholes actually knew we could probably “buy” them 10 times over!

David Hallwood
178 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:40:46
If, If, If, If, If we hadn't been deducted 10 pts, if we'd have won the games we should have(Fulham, Luton, Wolves & I'd put Man U in there too), we'd be joint 2nd!!! Which just shows that if you have a squad of decent pros and organised and drilled you should never be in the relegation zone.

Moving on to Beto; he's like a lot of second string footballers, when they get the chance try to fit the showreel into the game. When he scores a few, He'll relax and play his natural game. There's a footballer in there

Dale Self
179 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:41:46
Ah the coffee tastes good this morning, fucking good. Thanks John, James. Alan and Derek for the words about other fans. I am willing to support some fellow teams after a post-deduction review of integrity.

I will ask that all whiners put up with at least one forum of unmitigated invective from me. I should be good with that and then we can get back to good behavior on the forum. And no you don't get to just skip out for a week. Ta ta.

Tony Everan
180 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:46:53
Such a good performance, one aspect I liked is that we never let Forest settle into any rhythm. Even though they had a few chances, I never felt we were under constant threat. It’s down to a great shift put in by the whole team to bring the points home.

With regards Beto, I think realistically he needs a run of a few games to get abetter picture. I agree with the comments above that he definitely occupied their defenders and contributed. No doubt at all that there is much more needed from him, it may yet come.

Best of all the Everton under Dyche feels like a proper organised and fitter team. There’s camaraderie and a united front to do their best for the club. Dyche and Thelwell deserve some investment to develop this squad further.

Tom Bowers
181 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:47:19
This game was another banana skin (aren't they all)
but 1-0 will do me every time.

As we all know all games are tough in the Prem. and all teams are fighting to win especially those in the bottom half.

Our survival will rest with games against teams like these as most lower teams will generally get nothing against the top six or seven.

Our next two games will be tough although I believe points are there to be had especially the Chelski game if they can hang in tough from the start unlike the Manure game.

Danny O’Neill
182 Posted 03/12/2023 at 12:51:54
He just needs a goal David.

We can only play what's in front of us. Next up Newcastle at an electric Goodison and another 3 points chalked off before we appeal the punishment.

I hope the crowd don't go harsh on Anthony Gordon. The club sold him for their own means.

On a totally random note, I had my membership pack come through.

A Goodison Park fridge magnet. I don't think that will survive contact. A car air freshener. That will be out of the window in minutes.

Some Everton socks. Good for walking the dogs.

Rob Dolby
183 Posted 03/12/2023 at 13:10:45
A solid away performance and great 3 points.

The spine of the team looks strong with lots of effort and drive even if it is short on quality.

The Doucoure incident was never a penalty, the lad threw himself to the floor. If they start giving them, there will be a penalty at every corner and free-kick.

I am not Young's biggest fan but, given our spending position, he is proving to be a useful player for us. Okay, he is past his best but, for this season, he is doing a job for us.

We need to try and bring some goals into the team come January. We can't keep creating and not scoring.

Watching on Sky, there is no way 3,000 Evertonians can be that quiet! Volume up for the home fans and very little for the away support.

Garner was my MotM.

Andy Crooks
184 Posted 03/12/2023 at 13:33:10
The problem with Beto is that he is unlikely to get the run of ten games that he needs. Constantly trying to prove himself did for James Vaughan. Beto needs time to make mistakes and be confident that he will still be selected. If Calvert-Lewin is fit that, rightly, won't happen.

I have had a think about when I saw him and how unimpressed I was. I genuinely believe now, with hindsight, that he was suffering from sub's anxiety. Which drains energy and belief. Anyway, that's Dyche's dilemma.

Bill Gall
185 Posted 03/12/2023 at 13:44:30
Just a solid team win with every player willing to give his all for the injustice given out to the club, backed by the away support that other clubs can only dream of having.

In regards to their manager complaining about no penalty call, can anyone not say that if an Everton player was on a yellow card and committed 2 cynical fouls that were worse than the one he was booked for, he would have got a second yellow and red?

Christy Ring
186 Posted 03/12/2023 at 13:48:18
Shane McGowan passed away on Thursday RIP.

He was a massive Everton fan, his favourite moment was Michael Thomas scoring in the dying seconds at Anfield.

Robert Tressell
187 Posted 03/12/2023 at 14:12:04
Danny # 176, players do mature at different ages but Patterson is unusually immature for 22.

He's older than Gvardiol and Livramento, for example, and the same age as Saliba, Fofana, Van der Ven etc. It's partly down to injuries but he's still not got 50 top-flight league games under his belt in Scotland and England (and Scotland compares unfavourably to many European leagues and the Championship).

Aaron Hickey is younger and has double that in Scotland, Italy and the Premier League. So he really needs games now to catch up.

Danny O’Neill
188 Posted 03/12/2023 at 15:05:42
I think your points about the Scottish Premiership and your last point about him needing games is key. The Scottish Premiership is a level below.

Gone are the days when a significant number of top players in the English league were Scottish. I do like John McGinn at Villa though.

I had the Patterson debate with my brother yesterday.

I've not written Patterson off yet.

David West
189 Posted 03/12/2023 at 15:25:26
I wouldn't write Patterson off yet either. It shows the huge gulf between the Scottish Premiership and the Premier League. He's still adjusting.

In Scotland, playing for Rangers, he didn't need to be so switched on to his defensive duties; in England, he's been found out a few times and it's knocked his confidence a bit.

Dyche could turn him into a good defender, he's working wonders on Mykolenko, so let's hope he can get an improvement out of Nathan.

Will Onana get his place straight back in the team now?
It looks a settled side. Calvert-Lewin obviously gets in, but the rest are nailed on every week if fit, it looks like. Seamus I want to see play in this side.

Robert Tressell
190 Posted 03/12/2023 at 15:28:22
I've probably not expressed myself well; I haven't written Patterson off either. Far from it. He can look very classy at times and obviously has talent.

But you can see the dilemma. He needs games in a team that worries it can't afford to give him games.

Coleman learned a lot at Blackpool – and then more again from Moyes and Martinez.

I think Patterson will be our starting right-back by the end of the season because he'll be getting a crash course of what Keiran Trippier got from Dyche at Burnley. Good defensive positioning and overlapping / crossing going forwards.

Martin Farrington
191 Posted 03/12/2023 at 15:31:59
Christy @ 186,

So that's why I felt a kindred spirit to him, apart from his musical genius and liking for an occasional pint.

Mike Gaynes
192 Posted 03/12/2023 at 15:57:55
Robert #172,

I don't think Patterson's age is very relevant in a discussion of his football maturity. I think it's a function of how few games he has played.

At Rangers he was sitting behind captain Tavernier. With us, he has sat behind Coleman and now Young. In his entire top-level career, he has played less than 4,000 minutes. In league competition, just over 2,000. In other words, he has maybe one full season's worth of actual time on the pitch.

That's why he still plays like a teenager.

Alan J Thompson
193 Posted 03/12/2023 at 16:05:59
Cockneys going on about being on benefits? Just tell them it's a Liverpool Weighting allowance similar to that same benefit they get in London.

As for other parts, tell them they have your pity as it seems they can't afford to give much.

George Cumiskey
194 Posted 03/12/2023 at 16:57:50
In the Sunday Mirror today, Garner got 5 out of 10 while they give Harrison 6… unbelievable!

Garner was MotM while Harrison was crap. What match did they watch???

Michael Kenrick
195 Posted 03/12/2023 at 17:04:45

I wonder if they just watched the goal – which was the only decent spell of football in the whole game – and thought "Ah yes, that chap who launched the cross. We'll credit him with the assist for McNeil's smashing shot. 6/10"?

I'm puzzled why no-one seems to be giving him the assist?

George Cumiskey
196 Posted 03/12/2023 at 17:07:17
They gave McNeil MotM for scoring the goal. 🤔
John Raftery
197 Posted 03/12/2023 at 17:16:24
Mike (192) I fully agree.
Jay Harris
198 Posted 03/12/2023 at 17:44:55
Mike G,

He has played quite a few games for Scotland though.

To me, it seems like he's low on confidence and awareness plus that inconsistency that young players go through.

There's no doubt he is a good player but the question is whether he will get to the level where he is a regular Premier League starter.

I thought his best game was when he replaced Harrison earlier in the season and played just behind Young.

With Harrison not looking that great, that might be a way to get him up to par with Young coaching him through the game.

Andy Crooks
199 Posted 03/12/2023 at 18:16:32
Jay, Patterson is super confident. His time will come soon enough and he'll be our right back for as long as Seamus has been.
David West
200 Posted 03/12/2023 at 19:12:52
Robert 190 I'd agree with you.

He'd learn alot with 6 months at championship level.
If we have seamus & young fit by Jan I'd give him the rest of the season at a decent championship club, get him back in the summer stronger, wiser, tougher & just more confident. I'd say it would be tougher than the spl but not as demanding as the prem.

If seamus & young are fit I don't see Dyche starting the lad. Getting young in was bad for him long term.
He definitely has ability, he's athletic and get up & down, but a full back/ wing back has to be a defender first and foremost, even more so in a Dyche side.

Tony Abrahams
201 Posted 03/12/2023 at 19:31:01
When you get off the plane in Manchester, the cold will soon make your eyes water Peter, so make the most of your holiday, and just keep on enjoying the pleasant warm weather, whilst you can, mate.

I think Nathan Patterson is a really good footballer, who needs games to help his development, and I don’t think he will be learning that much at the minute, stuck on the bench every week. When he gets his chance, I hope he takes it in a similar way to Brainthwaite.

Paul Ferry
202 Posted 03/12/2023 at 19:42:23
Christy (186) Saint Shane was a top blue and you're right, he did not like the shite at all - 'and we raised a glass to JFK'

Mike Gaynes
203 Posted 03/12/2023 at 20:07:14
Jay #198,

I don't see him as lacking confidence at all. On the contrary, I love his "strut"... he's brashly unafraid to commit completely, whether in attack or defense.

But yes, he does sometimes lack awareness at the back, and that too is a function of simple inexperience. And David #200 is right, he won't start until his manager -- who prioritizes defensive organization -- is convinced he has the nous to coordinate with the rest of a Premier League backline that held Forest without a shot on goal for 83 minutes yesterday.

He definitely has the talent and the attitude.

Neil Copeland
204 Posted 03/12/2023 at 21:07:51
I thought yesterdays performance was a very professional one with absolute commitment to the end cause of bringing home 3 points.

The team looks better balanced and more confident when DCL plays but Beto is slowly improving. He is a bit ungainly at times although, as others have already pointed out, he is a real nuisance for defenders.

Nathan Patterson needs to stay patient, his time will come. He is a very talented player that seems to improve the longer the game goes on. Consistency and positioning let him down at times but he has all the right attributes and will become a great player I hope.

JP was very fired up yesterday he had a real connection with the away support. Some of his reactions to key moments are superb and he acts like a true blue these days.

As for the subject of chanting. To me unless it’s racially, tragedy or homophobic motivated it should be mainly considered as banter. Some of it is hilarious while a lot is just spouting shite - who cares? Sticks and stones and all that.

Oh, and in response to Scouser jibes, I often get comments about wheels. I normally respond by saying “sorry but today mate, I’ve run out of bricks”.

I had a decent talk with a couple of Forest fans on the way back to the car, they were decent enough lads (as most football supporters seem to be). They were saying that in a strange way they don’t mind too much losing to us given the circumstances! They accepted we were the better team on the day. The PL is corrupt in their eyes too and cited the sky 6 without any input from me. The Championship is much more enjoyable according to them and have no problem in going back down if it comes to it.

Finally, the PL have very successfully managed to unite our support to new level. In addition the relationship between the fans and the players must be at an all time high. Great to see and long may it continue.

Fuck the PL!


Dave Cashen
205 Posted 03/12/2023 at 21:41:53
Patterson was in possession of the number two shirt. He didn't make it his own. He started at right back in the first four games and we didn't win any of them. We conceded eight times.

Dyche will do what any manager would do. He'll stick with what is Working for least until it isn't.

Some people just get a notion stuck in their head and repeat it every game. All those who predicted with such certainty at the start of this thread that Young will be carded, exposed or roasted by the Nottingham speed merchant will not come on and hold their hands up and say they were proven to be completely wrong. They'll just be back for the next game saying exactly the same thing. Eventually they will call it correctly and they can shout "I told you so ".

There are now TWO pensioners who have kept Patterson out of the team under different managers. Maybe people should be asking why that is ?

I hope everyone gets behind whoever is selected on Thursday. An outsider reading the start of this thread would be forgiven for believing Young is the enemy

Bobby Mallon
206 Posted 03/12/2023 at 21:55:30
2.0 Thursday
Tony Abrahams
207 Posted 03/12/2023 at 22:11:25
To be fair to Patterson he had James Garner playing in front of him in a few of those early games, and when he next gets his chance, he will definitely coming into a much more settled team.

I hate positive threads before the game and much prefer negativity on these pages, because this usually brings out better results and performances, which probably means that most of us haven't really got a scooby doo!

Ernie Baywood
208 Posted 03/12/2023 at 22:15:27
I'm certainly not writing Patterson off.

To me it's a straight choice between two footballers who are currently fairly questionable.

But one has future upside, the other zero.

It should be a pretty straightforward choice really. I still can't fathom how it isn't.

I cannot see how you wouldn't task Patterson with Gordon this week as, while it may not work, it's at least got some chance. But I'm often surprised.

Ian Campbell
209 Posted 03/12/2023 at 23:52:55
Regarding Patterson, I must admit that the most telling thing for me is that Dyche and his coaching staff don't seem to have worked the same magic that I've seen in the improvement in the performances of Mykolenko, Doucouré and even Gueye.

Time will tell but to me the fact that he persists with Young whilst seemingly waiting for Seamus's return says that he doesn't trust or cannot coach Patterson into what he requires

Anthony Dwyer
210 Posted 03/12/2023 at 00:04:05
Crazy how poor we played yet Forest were actually worse!
Poor performances by most of our attack, but our keeper, defence and centre-mid looked organised, that was enough to beat Forest.

I know it's loads of ifs buts and maybes, but add our 10 points, then think of games at the start of the season when typically of Everton we didn't have a fit side or our transfers in place and look at where we could and probably should actually be.

Wolves game, Fulham game ( we had around 30 shots between them two games and I think 7 against us and lost 0-1 both times). That Luton game is a win 9 times out of 10 with the chances we blew.

Sheffield Utd draw, that's all without the stress of missing 5 glaring chances in a single half at home to Man Utd. Brighton getting a late deflected goal, the red shite getting away with the Konate decision at 0-0.

All that is pointless, I know, but when you look at where our 10 points back plus just 6 or 9 added to the 5 or 6 games mentioned above.

The Premier League has a few special sides, but many of the rest are just like us, they just have more balls or organisation.

Look what Emre has done with Villa in comparison to what Gerrard done, shows how easily a half-decent group of players can kick on in this league with a few tweaks. (I would add btw that Emre is a world-class manager, his in game decisions are in another league to those of Dyche.)

But looking forward, if we can get past this point deduction and not get stupid sanctions going forward, we could easily kick on next season, or put a decent cup run together this season.

Laurie Hartley
211 Posted 04/12/2023 at 07:38:09
Two opposition centre halves black and blue this morning.😉
Danny O’Neill
212 Posted 04/12/2023 at 08:47:07
Well said, Dave @214. He is being targeted. It's a seeming tactic by by opposition managers.

On the other side, Mykolenko is stepping up. Patterson can come good.

Your last paragraph says it for me. We can slate bad performances, but it shouldn't cloud judgement on potential.

Stand by for Branthwaite to be next in the firing line when he eventually makes a mistake. The boy looks great though.

Good points on Gordon. He was playing in a struggling team with a weight of expectation on his shoulders. Now he's playing in a good team challenging with a different type of expectation and as you say, enjoying his football.

Frank Fearns
213 Posted 04/12/2023 at 09:09:44
It is obvious that teams are going to target Young as can be seen in recent matches. Patterson will also be targeted as he has vulnerabilities. Mr Dyche knows that as does every Evertonian and tactically he should counter that area. He will have to give a lot of thought of how to hold Gordon.

Sorry can't advise, but he should earn his corn sorting this predicament.

Laurie Hartley
214 Posted 04/12/2023 at 09:38:54
Frank # 216 - “ He will have to give a lot of thought of how to hold Gordon.”. I agree and that is why I am hoping Patterson will play in front of Young.
Frank Fearns
215 Posted 04/12/2023 at 10:11:38
Laurie 217 --- and drop Harrison? I'll go with that.
Brian Harrison
216 Posted 04/12/2023 at 10:19:14
Although this squad isn't blessed with any great individual talent, you certainly cant criticize them for lack of effort they look as if the points deduction has galvanised the whole side and there is a definite togetherness in this squad. 4 away wins and now 3 on the bounce is top 6 form, just need to sort out our home form now, seems strange its harder to win away than at home yet we have lost 5 of our 7 home games.

I think Gana Gueye has been great since he has come back into the side, scoring the winner against Palace and playing a lovely wall pass with Harrison to lay on the winner. I also think his closing down goes un noticed a lot. Branthwaite looks better and better every week and I am sure the vultures will be circling in the summer. The other player who doesnt seem to get much praise is Mykolenko for me he is the best left back in the Premier league, especially now Dyche is letting him get forward more to join the attack. Although Harrisons cross did eventually end up with McNeil I am not convinced he has enough quality. Beto wasted a good chance but he has hardly had any minutes and when players arent playing a lot they tend to snatch at chances like he did.

Laurie Hartley
217 Posted 04/12/2023 at 10:24:26
Frank # 219 - yes that is what I am suggesting.
Rob Dolby
218 Posted 04/12/2023 at 10:33:12
Anthony 212

Do you think Emre would make better substitutions given the strength of our bench? Villa have spent a fortune and have a lot stronger squad that's why he can make subs.

Scratch below the surface and we don't have anything beyond the 11 starters.

I just don't get the criticism of Dyche with the subs.

Someone mentioned that he should have made 4 subs against Forrest...what 1 player did we have on the bench that would have improved us? Nevermind 4.

Danny O’Neill
219 Posted 04/12/2023 at 11:03:10
On a lighter note, I finally resolved my dispute with the club over membership, which even though I could log in, see my membership number, they kept telling me I needed to register and apply, even though I had renewed and they had taken the money several months ago.

I got my membership pack through the post yesterday.

Fridge magnet, car sticker. Not happening in this house. I think it's a wallet and a suitcase tag, which might be useful.

Best of all, royal blue EFC socks with the new simple Prince Rupert's tower logo. Probably the most useful going into winter.

Tom Bowers
220 Posted 04/12/2023 at 12:43:21
We all hope that some points are taken in the next two home games. Assuming the worst and the appeal goes nowhere, then every point now becomes crucial.

Villa stopping Bournemouth from getting all three was a good result and Forest may soon be pulled into the mix. Every game will be tough with the squad we have but, on any given day, if the whole team puts in a good shift and they don't give away any silly goals, then they can get decent results.

The Barcodes outplayed Man Utd but they are tough to get at in front of their own fans but a draw would be acceptable at Goodison.

I do believe we can beat Chelsea.

Dale Self
221 Posted 04/12/2023 at 13:42:47
Anthony 212, you need some backup for arguments like that. As no one is arriving for that cause, do one.
Rob Dolby
222 Posted 04/12/2023 at 14:35:09
Paul @229.

I can see where you coming from but I do think Isak, Bruno, Trippier and Livramento would get into most teams. They are also missing quite a few.

I am not saying they are world-beaters but a team that has those types of players have definitely helped Gordon whereas, at our place, a lot more pressure was on him to deliver due to the lack of quality in the team.

Christopher Timmins
223 Posted 04/12/2023 at 15:00:01

Glad to see that at least we are all getting the same items in the membership pack.

Mark Murphy
224 Posted 04/12/2023 at 15:15:23

I'm in that London with the missus to see Moulin Rouge this evening and I'm wearing my Everton socks right now!

But the best freebee is the Bluetooth speaker that's “ready to purr” from last year. UTFT! 👍

Barry Hesketh
225 Posted 04/12/2023 at 16:46:20
Everton secured a memorable victory on this day ten years ago, winning 1-0 at the home of Manchester United.

Bryan Oviedo scored the only goal of the game, with four minutes remaining in the match, keeping the Blues fifth in the Premier League and three points off second-placed Chelsea.

Speaking after the game, Roberto Martinez said: "I couldn't be prouder. We never felt inferior, we kept doing what we are good at. I have always felt this squad was capable of going anywhere and playing teams eye to eye.

"The second half performance was a lot better. We had real composure in the final third. I thought it showed a real indication of what can be achieved but we have done nothing yet. We need to carry on improving and prove we can perform like that anywhere in the league. Source: Liverpool Echo

"We have got a fantastic blend of experience and arrogant young players and that excites me."

Wow! I'm sure we all remember that night, but I honestly didn't think it was so long ago.

Dave Cashen
226 Posted 04/12/2023 at 17:17:41

At no stage did I claim stating the blindingly obvious was making a prediction.

People telling us which players will get carded before the game starts ? Now they are predictions.

As with most predictions, the people making them disappear when they are wrong. They simply come back and make the same prediction the game after.
Eventually the law of averages will kick in and they get to shout I told you so.

Does our cause no end of good

Mike Gaynes
227 Posted 04/12/2023 at 17:25:31
Wow, Barry, me neither. Ten years. Rom scuffed his shot across the goalmouth and Oviedo gave me one of my greatest thrills ever as a Blue.

Baby was one of my all-time favorites because I'd spotted him playing for Costa Rica against the United States and mused on these pages that we should sign him, and the following year, here he was. (On some level I will always believe Moyes read my post and investigated.) And then he got us a win at OT. Pure joy.

Oviedo played very little after leaving Sunderland in 2019 -- only 33 appearances in three years at FC Copenhagen -- but he has resurrected his club career here in the USA as a starter for a Real Salt Lake club that reached the playoffs this season. And he started all three games for Los Ticos at the World Cup.

Anthony Dwyer
228 Posted 04/12/2023 at 22:41:50
Rob @216,

Tbh mate I'm not one of these fans who think we are in any way better than Dyche, but I do genuinely think Dyche is slow when it comes to seeing the warning signs.

My main point would come via the Young route.

Brighton at home, Mitoma was always the threat, a simple thing of doubling up may have done enough to get it over the line. Maybe Harrison off and Patterson on, with Young on the wing helping out. Not exactly unheard of as Dyche did it a few days earlier in the cup.

Also, the derby, Young was always on for a red, maybe a big ask but I've seen the likes of Mourinho and Klopp take off players during the first half if it wasn't going their way on a particular day.

Man Utd game also, and again Young... please don't think I'm just anti-Young – it's just clear when a player is low as can be on confidence, sometime you need your manager to help you out and Dyche had Coleman, Patterson, and Godfrey all on the bench to play right-back. When he did actually get Young off, we were 2 down and he went like for like, I don't think a top manager does that, just my personal opinion.

Each game is different, but what I see is, in almost every game, Dyche can wait over an hour to do a like-for-like sub.

Dale @219,

It's not an argument I'm after mate, it's a personal opinion, I'm a realistic footy fan who goes to every Everton home match and just saying what I see.

Fact is against Fulham we had 9 shots on target to their 2, we lost 0-1. Against Wolves, we had 7 shots on target to their 2 and we lost 0-1. Luton scored 2 against us with only 2 shots on target to our 5.

So it's not like I'm just dreaming things up, I have some evidence to show you what I'm saying, but again it's still just an opinion.

As for ya stupid comment of "do one", erm, grow up! 🤷‍♂️

Danny O’Neill
229 Posted 04/12/2023 at 23:04:51
Barry & Mike. Oviedo baby. What a memory!!

Dave Cashen. I never predict lineups let alone results. It's pointless and why I don't gamble on football and especially on Everton!!

I may come out with blind faith and optimism. Just wait until Thursday morning!!!

Reading ToffeeWeb whilst watching News Night on the BBC. Strange combination!

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