NcNeil's precison strike secures excellent win for the Blues

Ashley Young seriously. Patterson has to be given a chance.

Any takers for an early booking for Ashley!

I can't stand Dyche.

What's the odds on him getting booked?

From what I've seen, Patterson is the lesser risk. Big match for McNeil too, he needs to get back to top form fast, slightly lucky to keep his place today

COYBLUES!!!

I totally agree about Young v Patterson, getting the nod, when we got him on a free.

I was under the impression he was brought in as experienced cover. Not the preferred starter if fit!

Christy, if Young gets booked early on, it will be like watching a horror movie through your fingers, rather than enjoying a footy match.

Losing Calvert-Lewin and missing Amadou is a dent but I still believe Everton will make enough chances and take a couple of them to beat Forest.

UTFTs!

Makes no sense.

I assume you saw all the missed chances last week. And that's with Calvert-Lewin.

Hopefully a possible good omen today, for Beto, it's Saint Eusebius Day, and hopefully he will play like Eusebio, and destroy Forest today.

UTFTs!

He might have a decent game today, but certainly not being picked on merit, looks like the new stubborn Michael Keane mark two, plenty of mistakes but still gets picked.

Anyway I will not focus the game on Young, we have to get something out of this game, do not care if it’s scrappy, result is all that matters.

If we had those 6 points the deduction of 10 points by the Premier League would be easily manageable. Losing 3 points to Luton at home is a typical example.

We should show them our xG - that’ll scare them.

McNeil may have been unlucky with his effort off the line but I was going to say that Beto looks lost but I'm not sure that he isn't just out of his depth. Even Pickford looks lost on who he should be wellying it to.

Have either side got anybody of skill who might take this game by the scruff as at the moment neither side seem to have any sort of plan, system or idea or the wherewithal to implement it.

Plenty of questions-wish I knew the answers.

It will be a different Forest in the second half, pushing up. Beto needs to keep trying.

lol you beat me to it I was going to say the same thing. Good result. If we can figure out a way to get some points at Goodison it would be very helpful given that atserisk.

MotM? No, didn't see one of them and again Dyche far too late and too slow with substitutions.

Beto should have been pulled at least 10 minutes earlier and Harrison and Doucoure shouldn't have been far behind.

Still, 3 valuable points.

Gotta master some home wins now, then hopefully we will be fine.

Another very good game from Gana Gueye who was here, there and everywhere, my MotM.

Going to a party now, hope it calms my bloody nerves!

Garnier my Mom. Thought Beto lead the line well and helped to contain Forest.

What a wonderful weekend.

Thanks for telling us your Mom's name. Does she own a shampoo company by any chance?

But the drop off in quality from Calvert-Lewin is stark. Both Beto and Chermiti when he came on were poor.

Really happy for McNeil to get his goal. The back 4 were rock solid – yes even Young! Garner and Gueye were excellent.

Doucoure has some great attributes but he is nowhere near a top No 10. Harrison was poor initially but he still worked hard all game.

We move up to 7 points, but a tough run of fixtures coming up. Now if only Dyche can sort out our home form, we should still survive.

Very good team effort, many MotM contenders, and a shame they didn't convert the first-half chances and kill the game off.

Great for the spirit of the club and a great start to Chrimbo.

Now to get that home win.

All have a Ball.

UTFTs!

Garner ran that match for us, what a steal this lad could turn out to be. Doucouré worked himself to the ground again.
Mykolenko improves constantly. We are no longer an easy game for anyone, we will be tough and scrap for every point.

If we could be more clinical In front of goal, I wouldn't even be worried about beating the drop, it's our main concern as well as the depth of the sqaud or lack of depth.

WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED!!!!

I thought Gana did well enough and has now provided some creative touches that have helped us out in tight games.

Garner grew into game when he twigged he could get ball with space to be creative.

McNeil also improved as game went on. Harrison lacking confidence and close control is very wayward.

Defence did their job. Frustrating how many times easy options to get ball properly cleared were messed up by players trying to be too clever.

Great stuff. We look quite a bit better than the sides around us (actually, we look like a side sitting 11th...).

Oh, hang on, I need to step out of the Virtual Realty that is the massive Sky Sports - Premier League conspiracy to destroy Everton. They seem to be reading from the wrong script this evening!

Just spotted that, hoping it would be missed, but. Auto correct.

MotM, He was excellent, gave Forest problems with precision play and prevented Forest pushing up in support.

I would like Everton to get more points and tell the Premier League to stick their 10 points.

I heard League places read out on BBC radio earlier with no mention of Everton's points deduction.

Our points are clearly asterisked with appropriate footnote on Sky coverage.

Shhhhhhhh.

No, Forest v Everton, but you must be easily pleased.

Will take the points, scrappy game, much the better side but really should have controlled it better.

Well taken goal but really it will be remembered for a battling display.

A few digs at Dyche on here... baffling. For the team to play like that under the current circumstances is a lot down to him, in my view.

No, I wouldn't pick Young, but we've got just the right manager for this weak squad and these circumstances.

With the inconsistency of reffing, that was certainly a debating point. However, I am on record as saying I don't mind refs giving a little slack on second yellows so as long as Paul Tierney makes the same judgement in all games he refs then I'll let that one pass.

Plus with Doucoure getting away with a clear foul in box, then it has evened out in this game at least.

I thought Maupay played well for us today – didn't he start the rout of Luton?

Beto is a tall Oumar Niasse. I hope that he is not on big wages or we will never get rid of him.

I agree with Gueye and Garner as Men of the Match for us.

We can be better because, whilst there were many terrific performances, there were a number which were average at best. Young was okay, but 'okay' is just not good enough.

Harrison played his part and was hardworking but was ineffective. Beto was a real disappointment and shows just how much we miss Calvert-Lewin. We know though that Dyche will not make changes unless forced to do so.

Let's all hope for a positive Christmas, a successful new year and a home 3rd round tie against Dartford and a Carabao semi against Port Vale. Perhaps 1995 beckons again.

"Cor blimey guv"?? Translation?

Something – holy crap – governor...

I need to work this phrase into my lexicon.

Agree. The commentary throughout the match was all about how Forest were not playing well, not winning second balls, not winning headers in our box, not being aggressive enough, not creating enough.

Focusing the whole match on Forest had what they needed to do to win, what they were doing wrong, basically cheerleading them through the whole 90 minutes.

I think only once or twice the commentary said Everton had played well and praised Garner. They never mentioned that Tarkowski and Branthwaite won everything sent in the box. Never said how we had stopped them creating chances. Never mentioned Mykolenko keeping Gibbs-White quiet, or the mammoth shift Doucoure put in.

It can't just be me that sees this total bias every time we play.
I could watch Forest play Sheffield Utd and it would be fair and balanced Why us?? Fuck them!!!

WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED !!!!

Anyone else recollect that?

All I meant was that Beto's physical presence allows us to keep the system the same when Calvert-Lewin is out, which is a big help. Doucoure and Beto just need to get on the same page, and that will only come with game time.

He's reinstated some pride and he deserves credit for that. We play decent stuff at times and the players look like they're playing for the badge. Small steps but he's at least got us on the right track.

I thought all played well today. Beto was a handful with his hold-up play and was often taking both centre-backs to prevent flick ons. He's not a Champions League player, but will get a few important strikes this season.

Harrison is making the wrong decision and slow to cross but works so hard defensively to support the back 4, who were immense.

Garner and Gana very good but Tarkowski and Branthwaite are so solid, I don't even fear crosses coming in now.

Well done all.

Very happy!

If that's true, that's so freaking cool. Love that.

One of my favs I learned as a Yank is your two-finger wave. I guess it came from English archers? If they came under fire and survived, they'd jump up and wave two fingers at the enemy basically saying, "We're alive and have our hands, we can fire back so fuck off."

Si @ 62,

Even Americans are like, "What the fuck is that accent?" in the Mary Poppins. DVD was simply awful linguistically.

Back on track:

Everton were warrior-like today. Such a massive road win.

My MotM is McNeil. Should have had two, stupid dangerous today and solid. Gana and Garner, as others have said, excellent.

And my new man-crush in Branthwaite was again ridiculously good. That boy is so, so, so good it defies logic. He's always in the right place, an excellent defender, solid in the air defensively, and his feet are magic. That kid is an amazing footballer, and I never tire watching him.

Kudos to Pickford for that save, too. Huge moment. Great keeping.

There's minor stuff to bitch about, but not here, not today.

UTFT

This sucks though. That initial air of defiance has given way to anger and disgust that we're forced to deal with this level of stress again. It's no fun.

Also, I have no idea why Young is still starting. It doesn't even have anything to do with Patterson at this point, not with Coleman now available.

Personally I do not give a shit how we play, how lucky we are, as long as we get out the Bottom 3 and get to mid table.

Well done to everyone today 3 points is all that matters.

What no mention of Young!
He's become the new whipping boy for those who like to agree with other one eyed ones.

I'd sooner go with Dyche's opinion, after all his job depends on it.

Since the Moyes era, have we had a better CB partnership than Tark-Branthwaite?

If so, who?

I don't think we have?

Can't fathom some still getting into the manager at the drop of a hat.

Subs left too late, and only one used when four were the order of the day !

Jamie, go on Google and put ‘ Agincourt two fingered salute’ in and it will give you some background to the V sign.

Take your point.

Dereck#81

Actually I thought Beto played well.Lead the line, created space for McNeill, Garnier and Doucoure going forward and caused Forest to think twice about pushing up, which delayed their tactics in the second half.Forest looked smug going in at the end of the first half with their tactics working.They did not get going with their planned tactics in the second half until it was too late!.It was noticeable that when Chermiti was not as tight on his marking defender.

On form, I will back Everton to get more points than Luton Town, Burnley, and Sheffield United. If we jump above any others, then great for the club. If we do this, then the coach and the players, who will have shouldered the load all the way through, will have done something immense!

We need Calvert-Lewin and Onana back and everyone else, including Young, to remain healthy enough to play.

Re. Young. Some fans just need a whipping boy. Dyche said in his presser on Friday that he sees the players training every day; he knows their weaknesses and strengths etc.

Yet some fans still think they know best. Patterson was awful at the start of the season, and Dyche wants to bring him along slowly. If he played him every game, he'd quickly be written off as shite. Dyche is protecting him, and we will reap the rewards. Look at the improvement in Mykolenko. So many had written him off. Dyche has improved so many players. Trust that he knows what he is doing with Patterson.

Derek Knox #78, how can you say four subs were the order of the day, when we won and didn't concede? That is a ridiculous comment. The players were so well drilled and organised, making those changes may very well have disrupted everything. We won and looked comfortable. So Dyche got the subs right. Again, he knows his players and their fitness levels. We top the charts for distance run, and that's without making many subs. Our boys are fit, and substitutions often have more of a negative impact than people realise.

A widely shared image on social media purportedly explains the historic origins of the “middle finger”, considered an offensive gesture in Western culture. The image makes the claim that the gesture derives from English soldiers at the Battle of Agincourt, France in 1415. This claim is false.

Booooo!!!! The false story is gold. The truth stinks in this instance. 😂

Two home games to come to sort our home form out and climb back up the league to piss the Premier League off.

At this moment I prefer Gana to Onana. Even his (Gana's) passing is improving. I suppose he goes away for a month of African Cup, so we'll see Onana soon.

Gordon scoring for those horrible Geordies is still a kick in the teeth.

Probably false yes but the context is English archers were the best (eg Crecy/Poitiers) and if captured would apparently have their middle finger cut off to hinder their bowmanship. Hence the middle finger showed they still had it.

That said I would have thought a well-aimed arrow a better gesture…

Everton forever.

The archers raised the index (first) finger and middle finger to create the V-sign, there are plenty of articles that back up the commonly held belief that that was the origin of the V-sign, both fingers being required to fire a longbow (as opposed to the single middle finger).

Link

Hey, I'm all for the archer narrative. 100%.

I thought Young played well. You could see the Forest manager telling his players to try and get Elanga one-on-one with him and, other than getting done once, I thought he stood up to the test by using all the experience he has accumulated over the years, very well.

The centre-backs were great, and the left-back defended well until the last few minutes, whilst the engine room of Garner and Gueye kept us ticking along by keeping the pressure on Forest.

I think Beto needs games before a proper judgement can be made, and I think his replacement is not quite up to scratch physically just yet.

Doucoure doesn't stop, but this sometimes doesn't help his composure. McNeil also doesn't stop, but it's his lack of pace that sometimes makes me feel he would be a better player if he moved inside, and Harrison also works very hard, but I thought he was very, very poor in possession, except for when he helped create the goal.

We sometimes lack quality, but we are definitely developing as a team, and this can be attributed to every single player working hard for each other. This is definitely the only real basis for improvement other than the transfer window, so even if/when our finances improve, this basic ingredient has got to continue to grow. 🤞

The only players who failed to measure up in my view were Young and Beto, and I don't blame either one. They both worked relentlessly, constant effort. Young was overmatched by Elanga, and Beto clearly isn't accustomed to the target man role. But neither ever gave up for a second.

Agree that Garner was MotM, but Branthwaie and Mykolenko excite me more every time I see them play. Both were simply unbeatable today. And except for one dangerous mistake on the ball, Tarkowski was monumental, inspirational.

And in a less elegant vein... shove that up your collective colon, Premier League. We are going to beat you.

Young was overmatched by Elanga due in part because his legs are gone. He also had a terrible foul after getting skinned and should have been shown a yellow.

Beto is slow, and he missed a wide open net. What's a striker for?

Look, I'm not going to bash the crap out of them (tough to hold it in check regarding Young), but neither was very good, as you point out by saying they "failed to measure up".

Win's a win. Three points.

This doesn't mean that I want Young in the team, it's just me giving credit where I think it's due with regards his performance tonight.

I take your point and, as much as training is important, what happens at the weekend fixture is more important than anything else. And tens of thousands of people can see that Young is exposed as a weakness in our team every single game.

Only when forced into playing Patterson in the back 4 did we see our best defensive performance of the season away to West Ham.

This is a man who saw enough on the training ground every day to suggest to him that Michael Keane was his starting centre-back for the season.

I've read as well in history books that, if the English or Welsh longbowmen got taken prisoner by the French during the 100 Years War, they'd cut their 1st and middle fingers off. This was in recognition, of how vital these skilled longbowmen were to the English armies during this War.

This also raised the origin of the V gesture from the English armies to the French and their allies to a gesture which is part of modern life.

Garner ran the game for us and the back 4 were superb!

Newcastle up next and we can take something from that game as well.

Dyche in!

UTFT's

Give your heads a wobble, he was as good as anyone tonight.

3 points today well earned, nervy at times but job done.

After Forest fans singing about cheating, it could come back to bite them on the backside, with the signings they made last season. The volume was turned up a couple of notches when they sang it for sure by Sky, they made sure the viewers heard it loud and clear.

Tough ones coming up Thursday and Sunday, Man Utd barely got a sniff v the Geordies today.

There was a scare early on when Elanga tore past him, but after that Young held his own. Further up the field, he showed his class. His detractors have a point though: against better sides, he's a liability.

Some say; "History has its truth, and so has legend. Legendary truth is of another nature than historical truth. Legendary truth is invention whose result is reality. Furthermore, history and legend have the same goal; to depict eternal man beneath momentary man."

We just call it 1-Nil… (print the legend)!

And, in the voice and manner of Magnus Magnusson...more Importantly - No Yellows.

Don't these yellows 'reset' soon?

For a mid 40s guy I actually love this team.

Back four all played well (including Young). Garner was the best player on the pitch by some distance, McNeil provided that little bit of magic and Gana also played well.

But fuck, we struggle without Calvert-Lewin. Beto is so far off the pace, it beggars belief. It looked like someone had put some lead weights in his boots!

Not sure Beto will ever be a top striker but don't judge him on tonight. He's not played much in the last month and only just recovered from a knock. Even when not playing well, he gives us an outlet and works hard.

Tough December to come but we're playing like a solid mid-table team, not a relegation one. Injuries may be the thing that details us but the difference between us now and this time last season is very encouraging. Going in the right direction.

Just 12 short months ago we were all on the bus with Frank Lampard and his beanie hat heading into hell.

Still a massive ask to stay up surrounded by corruption.

It means nothing that Young was okay today, he's been crap and living on the edge every other game. Give your head a wobble fella.

Don't know your age but wonderful last line of your post has a tinge of a San Francisco band playing at Haight Ashbury 1967 with The a dead & The Airplane… “ Frank Lampard & His Beanie Hat Heading To Hell”

What an amazing album cover that could have been, designed by the wonderful Sid Griffin….. let's see if anyone gets on to this???

We all see misunderstandings on final passes. I think this gets worked out soon. Beto's decision-making is challenged in this league but give him some time to find a niche. His strength and holdup play gives us a different look. At some point, his preferences become known and he will learn what passes players can deliver.

The defence is there given what we have. I know Young is a target but we are maxing what we got. The pack defending in transition gave up nothing, at least from first memory. Branthwaite coming out to quell danger while Tarkowski sits back is also working. And finally we are finding the pass out of our third. It is coming together even as key players went missing.

You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot
For a taste of your elegant pride
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe
But at least I'm enjoying the ride
At least I'm enjoying the ride, yeah
At least I'm enjoying the ride

Rather the Premier League bastards in the bucket than us.😀

I'm a Blue but even I shouted penalty on that one. Only an amateur in the Sunday league with a bad hangover wanting to get sent off would do that, what a fucking idiot, Dopecoure.

Young was excellent on the ball and made some really good quick passes in tight areas to get out of our end -- probably the best he has been this season -- but he was thoroughly overmatched by Elanga.

Beto actually did a splendid job defensively -- three or four headed clearances off set pieces -- but the guy can't shoot. He's had 18 shots in Premier League games this season, only one on target. So the only way he's gonna score is via crosses in the box, and he hasn't shown any sign yet that he can anticipate those. Twice today Doucoure sent low balls in from the right that Beto didn't drive towards to challenge for. And the third time, when he did make a near post run, Doucoure lifted the cross to the far post.

Quite a few upsides. McNeil (not just because of his goal) looks to be 90% plus of the player we saw second half of last season, in a good way – he looked a quality player at that point.

He does take a while to build after injury or absence. Maybe it's because he is not that much of an athlete. In a few games, he might be the player we saw back then, ie, arguably our best.

Our centre-backs are building a really good partnership. Branthwaite is quite a prospect. If we have to sell, not him, It's a relief not to have Keane anywhere near the starting XI.

I am in awe of Mykolenko. A limited player but by hard work is turning himself into a solid Premier League ledt-back and even now offers a little bit going forward.

After a few poor-ish games, Garner was a really bright point and Gana, for all his shortcomings, still looks like a proper Premier League player.

The downsides? Beto is a unit but limited. He might come good but he doesn't look like a natural goalscorer to me. Elanga had Young on toast. Fortunately Forest were too stupid to give him the ball often enough.

And despite the cross for the goal, Harrison perplexes me. He looks busy and eager enough but he doesn't win headers or tackles, can't keep hold of the ball, passes poorly, struggles to beat a man and despite the busyness, is surprisingly slow. Our right side is very poor.

Yes, "Cor Blimey" is a bit archaic now, I know, still used where I am in New Zealand, but that may be because where I am is 50 years behind reality! I think both sets of meanings ("God blind me") are correct which when combined with accent and dialect of the English oft came out as "Cor Blimey... I don't believe what I am seeing" lol.

The two-fingered salute, well, that's a great story about archers but there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest any truth to it. Few wanted prisoners of war and most were killed on the field of battle, not just their fingers removed!

Apparently they will be displaying 3 thousand of these cards along with their usual blow-up T-Rexes on Thursday. Oh, how I love these shower of self-righteous pricks.

Hopefully there is some money available (in the January Window) and we can get a naturally right-footed player, or even, the luxury these days of a player who can play with both feet on either side of the pitch. Do these type of players exist anymore?

Jamie Crowley, I bet your house was a 'happy house today' with our win and Mrs C witnessing a Burnley rout of The Blades (well blunted today and hitherto).

Christine, the 'two-fingers salute' you referred to, I have heard many times as being attributed to English Archers displaying to the Frogs that they were still capable of firing a bow. It was rumoured (rightly or wrongly) that the French would cut the fingers of the best bowmen to render their potential, null and void!

Not pointing any fingers there by the way! :-)

And who knows? We may be even collecting a Cup by then.

Certain players are playing below par. But given yesterday's collective team effort, it would be grossly unfair to name them. Let's try and keep confidence and application to an optimum level for the coming months. We defended magnificently particularly under pressure at the end.

If the reduction of penalty points actually happens, all well and good. But let's concentrate on the predicament at hand and we'll be fine. Great show yesterday, COYB.

On the whole, the team is playing extremely well compared to recent years.

Quite right. Clearly censorship by the Premier League on media outlets. I heard virtually nothing from the Everton fans, which is a denial of right IMO. I wonder if this is actually legal. Stuff Premier League and Sky. I wish I had the dosh to attempt legal action on the dead-brainers.

Re the game, Garner was outstanding, great goal by McNeil. Good effort all round.

Comment: To me, this team looks the fittest we've had in many years. Bodes well.
COYB

Next time we score three, I'm cueing up, "Cor Blimey!!"

DK,

The house was very happy, but there's college football here...

Son #3 happy with Alabama win. Check.
Son #4, as of the time of this post, biting his nails with Florida State. Jury out.
Dad - Not happy. I graduated from Tulane University and we lost today, missing our chance at two consecutive years of major bowl games. Gutted. But we'll always be 2022 Cotton Bowl Champs - which was akin to Marine winning the FA Cup!

But concerning the "real" football from your perspective, we were over the moon!!

My sons almost combusted when the team was announced with Young at right-back! But I thought he had a decent game against Elanga – after the first 5 minutes, he began to stand off him and use his positional play to manage him. His passing was also good and helped us relieve pressure.

Beto needs time and games, so let's not judge him too early. He is certainly physical enough for the Premier League and works hard for the team.

Bob #131, you should have been watching the game in the US. The traveling Blues almost drowned out the commentators on NBC Peacock.

Steve #133, agree on Beto. He scored a goal every 200 minutes over two seasons in Serie A, so obviously he knows where the net is. But I looked up some of his goals for Udinese and found mostly poacher's goals in the box (one nicely assisted by Deulofeu), so he may require more service than the current Everton attack can give him.

Previously, you saw the players coming out, lining up, shaking hands, taking a knee etc but now you don't even get shown the line-ups which can only lead you to the conclusion that they are trying to hide something for a reason or at somebody's behest.

We won. We got three points. We got the job done,

There is not a single syllable in your relentless sad and pathetic drivel on here that in the faintest way acknowledges this.

Give yer head a big fucking massive wobble lad

While I have been impressed by the work-rate of Harrison and McNeil in tracking back, they have not really provided many crosses to the striker in the last few games. McNeil was much better yesterday in affecting the game to be fair.

Derek # 128, someone on here recently suggested Dyche play Patterson in front of Young. I think that is a good idea. I seem to remember Moyes played Seamus in an advanced roll early on in his career. In my opinion Patterson has the talent and temperament to become a top player for us. I really want to see Patterson on Gordon’s case on Thursday.

Lastly, I liked what I heard from our manager in his post match interview. He knows what we the fans want first and foremost and he is driving this home with the players.

To me it was an excellent performance, very gritty, not very pretty, but the attitude of all the players was the total opposite of the spineless displays we have seen over recent seasons. Credit is due to Sean Dyche and his team for instilling that, under the most testing of circumstances.

Without the points deduction, a draw would have been ok. To earn 3 points can be regarded as clawing back 2 of the missing 10.

I had no sense of how loud our fans were, but I can imagine they were pretty raucous, and a rendition of We Shall Not Be Moved is always special. A good day all round.

Fullbacks - solid.

Braithwaite - Imperious

Tarkowski - I've been critical, but how can you not love a guy who defends as if his life depends upon it.

Harrison, Gana, McNeil - Tireless. Stunning strike from Dwight.

Garner - Did Paul Bracewell shave the sides of his head and sneak on the pitch yesterday ?

Duke - Always a Handful

Betto - Needs a goal, but put a real shift in. Hopefully more to come.

Just like a tree that's standing by the water side

Keep the faith.

Not sure if they get some sort of morbid satisfaction, of going against the grain, being argumentative, or they are RS in disguise. Either way I wish thy would either change their scripts or just Fuck Off !

Apologies Editors, but flies in the ointment are never a good sign !

Sounds like the perfect day Peter M, and I’m sure the victory will have eased the pain of having to pay through the nose for a bevy in Dubia!

Garner was impressive, Idrissa was solid and the pair controlled the second half.

Mykolenko has been a revelation this year that I never expected. He's a lot stronger physically and mentally playing with more confidence and tactical nouse both defensively and getting into the opposition box. Empathy says the effects of war must have had an effect, plus the step up coming into the Prem, but he's a firm starter no doubt this year. Hope to see continuing improvement.

Great second half from O'Neill. Looking more like end of last season. Our left side is much stronger than our right side, where we are vulnerable defensively and struggling offensively. Young is a lunge away from a red card every game. He hasn't the speed to deal with the young wingers he's up against week in week out. OK some good crosses from him but it's not enough. Elange, and also Gibbs-White, had good chances that more clinical players would have slotted and this would have been a different end result. Dyche needs to call time on Young as a starter. The issue is exacerbated by Harrisons lack of pace, quality and end product. Ok I get it he works hard but he's not imo at, or can reach, the standard we need if we're to progress. I expect we'll see glimpses this year but it won't be enough. A good friend who's a Leeds fan said he's watched him for years and that was his verdict. I expect we'll be shopping for wingers soon enough, when we have some funds that is.

Betto needs a run to see if he can step up. Lack of good crosses didn't help. I expected him to be more of a handful yesterday. It'll take time. I think he has explosive acceleration over short distances and is a strong lad who'll work hard, so there's every reason to hope he can make a good contribution. I do worry when players are sold on tick though, but fingers crossed he makes a Mykolenko style improvement.

Two solid centre halfs. I just hope we can hold onto Branthwaite and he becomes a one-club man as he's excellent. Tarks is solid and fearless and leading the team well.

An important win. This team is only going up the league and hopefully catapulted by the league returning our points in the new year. If not, confident we'll be safe anyway. UTT!!

Solid at the back and looks more if a threat going forward. Hopefully still more to come.

Garner man of the match. Keep him central, a debate I had with my brother before the match yesterday, who suggested he should play right back over Young.

I'm not advocating the continuous selection of Young, but play. Garner central.

Beto wasteful. Gueye doing his thing. Sometimes he looks like a 34 year old playing in a 24 year old body.

Branthwaite majestic. I almost want him to stop it otherwise he'll be off to somewhere like the Etihad before too long.

Tarkowski is just solid. I like his leadership, but also that he plays football with a smile on his face, even when fronting up. I bet he's a proper wind up merchant, but keeps his head.

McNeil could have had another had it not been for great last ditch defending. But what a strike when it came. Look at the build up. Gueye's pass is key as is McNeil's touch to take it down on a six pence before hitting one of the sweetest strikes you're likely to see.

Forget the football. Is there something about playing in all blue? Should we?

And watching nostalgic videos. The debate I've raised previously. Blue socks or white socks? I see Dixie, Alex Young and the 66 cup winning team in blue socks. And Joe Royle's dogs of war with their blue/black ones.

Sorry, I digress from what was a great win. Newcastle next.

Great attitude and still young. Often the first over to the away supporters at the end regardless.

He will get better and, as we've seen, he's got the odd goal in him.

Bemused by 'toffee web football experts' still calling for Patterson, oh dear. Some selective memory issues going on. I suspect Dyche is working on him behind the scenes, I've heard that's also known as improving a player through coaching. Something Dyche actually gets paid to do. If that fails - because it's obvious Patterson is positionally deficient at right back if you actually watch him and stop ranting about Young - he could come back to the first 11 in Harrison's position. We'll see but to be honest, I'm not bothered as long the team gets results.

We seem to have figured out a reliable approach away from home, Dyche needs to figure out a way to get more results at Goodison if we want to get home and dry this season, but we've definitely turned a corner and don't look anything like the team who turned out under Lampard.

Well done blues and Sean Dyche for instilling some fight in them.

So pleased with the result last night. It's strange but the 10-point deduction has reignited my bond with Everton that the owner and chairman had put under massive strain with their chaotic mismanagement. My ire at the board has disappeared and I just want to be a proud Evertonian again, not embarrassed.

Anyway, nice walk in Greenwich Park this afternoon followed by a few pints and happy to wear my Toffees bobble hat!!

We dominated the opposition in their own back yard and, if not for wasteful finishing, it could've been more comfortable (the last 10 minutes were a bit nervy). However, I agree with the majority, Doucoure got lucky with the shirt-pull in the box and that could've turned things round very quickly. Forest should've been down to 10 men in fairness, so they also got lucky.

Playing this way, we should stay up, despite the unjust 10-point deduction.

Apparently Luton fans did the same when we played them. I couldn't hear on TV but I guess Rob H or Danny O could confirm?

Given the state of Nottingham and, in particular, Luton (2 absolute shit holes for TW posters fortunate enough never to have visited either location) you wonder why these songs persist – perhaps a sad leftover from the 1980s?

To change topic: Ashley Young v Anthony Gordon next week. That'll be interesting to watch.

I agree that Beto was wasteful, however, we were a better team when he was on the pitch last night and we had difficulty in getting up the pitch in the last part of the game when he went off.

Doucoure is no pass master but he has very good first touch, maybe that's why he scores so many goals.

We are going in the right direction, there will be ups and downs along the way, that's what mid-table teams experience, but we have a great chance of playing in a Cup Final this year if our level of performances continue on the up.

'Feed the scousers' came over loud and clear on Sky Sports, unlike our censored chanting at Goodison last week.

I'm personally not particularly bothered by this long-standing seasonal song though, let's not go all wokey like the RS victims.

Hopefully the dog is a blue, an Everton Tripe Hound, or even a Kerry Blue. Oh don't tell me it is a Red Setter! I feel for you mate. :-)

As Mike points out 2 absolute shitboxes.

Makes me howl when they sing sign on etc, everyone I know either works or have retired having worked their whole lives.

Shows you how brain-dead these cretins are.

I've also heard from a mate last night that Newcastle fans have printed flyers saying 'Correct' not 'Corrupt', and are planning to display them on Thursday.

"Be careful what you wish for" is all I can say

It's a pity we can't import pictures but I've got pictures of Dixie Dean & Alan Ball wearing them and that's good enough for me.

Shows what a load of morons these people are – like chanting about gays when playing Brighton. I just think it shows their total ignorance.

On Patterson, we have to wait and see. Every player is different. Every manager sees players differently. To repeat myself and if we take our Donegal-tinted glasses off, I remember more one or two raised eyebrows when a young Seamus Coleman arrived at Everton. He was only 20 and we sent him on loan to Blackpool.

Give the kid time. There are never any guarantees in football, but he may come good. He certainly has the right attitude.

Patterson, Mykolenko and Branthwaite marshalled by the smiling General Tarkowski. That could be solid foundations at the back.

I forgot to mention Pickford. Another match-winning save.

They also all believe we'll stay up, and were all very encouraging in our fight against the Premier League. They were also slightly embarrassed at being part of the favoured 6 which is also interesting to learn.

Premier League 0, Everton 1

The Red Echo is now referring to "poverty abuse". Jesus wept, another hate crime!

As someone posted, you just ignore this shite.

That pain hasn't hit yet. My brother-in-law, who lives over here, has paid for everything so far. He's going to give me the tally for 50% of what he's spent when we head home on Wednesday – I suspect it's going to make my eyes water.

The pub I tend to go to in Frodsham has a pretty eclectic clientele as far as football fans go. Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Everton and Chester. I was talking to a non-attending Man Utd fan the other day just generally about football.

He said that, in his eyes, Everton fans were a totally different and good group compared to Liverpool fans, who he had no time for. He even said Man City fans were well above the Red Shite too!

I've heard all this shit about scousers all my working life. Never bothered even when young.

I usually turn it on the arseholes that raise it.

I meet some really senior guys and invariably as soon as they hear my accent the shit starts.

One of my usuals is to play on it. Tell the guy he looks like shit and obviously strung out after an all-night drug and booze session, crap clothes etc so being a scouser if he needs anything just to let me know!

Usually shuts them up.

If it's the dole comments, then it's just how crap they're dressed and offer them a few bob to get rigged out.

I don't however believe he missed a gilt-edged chance.

Each week I see Haaland and other celebrated strikers miss chances like that. The ball comes to them very fast and they are being closed down fast too. I thought he adjusted well to go with his right foot but just got a touch too much on it.

Haaland is brilliant but also fortunate that he will get chance after chance like that, and usually a miss isn't critical. They win anyway. Beto has scraps and no opportunity to build up his rhythm and confidence.

As for comments on Patterson, he's obviously got talent – but he is very immature and at 22 he's absolutely not a kid. He's unusually immature for someone that age, playing more like an 18- or 19-year-old.

Like an earlier poster (can't find it now, apologies) I expect Dyche and the coaching staff are working very hard with him. In an ideal world, he'd get a season at Preston or Anderlecht or even Rangers to wise up – but our squad is so light, we don't have the luxury. I do think he'll be our regular by the end of the season though, barring injuries.

We will stay up whatever happens with the appeal, we just need to have luck for a change with injuries.

I wouldn't mind seeing Danjuma on the field more but Dyche seems to like to stick to his tried and tested which I can't criticise him for.

Two tough home games to come: Newcastle are in and out and have a few injuries at the moment, Chelsea are always hard to beat.

I could only smile when I'd go into my local, early doors Friday. Used to be this bloke (actually I kinda liked him) and get "Mind your wallets", "You got my hub caps" etc.

He was a Stokey, arse hanging out of his kecks, thick as mince. Christ on a bike!

We are as guilty as a puppy stood by a pile of steaming shit. We simply need to get over the line this season. If Dyche keeps us up and we can win the Carabao Cup he deserves manager of the season.

Take Mykolenko, he was written off by a few on these very pages. He's coming good.

Alan, I get it most weeks whether I'm travelling to Goodison or going to an away match in the South.

Sign on. We pay your benefits etc. Most of them are from London council estates and drink in Wetherspoons.

Water off a Duck's back as they say.

Thing is if these arseholes actually knew we could probably “buy” them 10 times over!

Moving on to Beto; he's like a lot of second string footballers, when they get the chance try to fit the showreel into the game. When he scores a few, He'll relax and play his natural game. There's a footballer in there

I will ask that all whiners put up with at least one forum of unmitigated invective from me. I should be good with that and then we can get back to good behavior on the forum. And no you don't get to just skip out for a week. Ta ta.

With regards Beto, I think realistically he needs a run of a few games to get abetter picture. I agree with the comments above that he definitely occupied their defenders and contributed. No doubt at all that there is much more needed from him, it may yet come.

Best of all the Everton under Dyche feels like a proper organised and fitter team. There’s camaraderie and a united front to do their best for the club. Dyche and Thelwell deserve some investment to develop this squad further.

As we all know all games are tough in the Prem. and all teams are fighting to win especially those in the bottom half.

Our survival will rest with games against teams like these as most lower teams will generally get nothing against the top six or seven.

Our next two games will be tough although I believe points are there to be had especially the Chelski game if they can hang in tough from the start unlike the Manure game.

We can only play what's in front of us. Next up Newcastle at an electric Goodison and another 3 points chalked off before we appeal the punishment.

I hope the crowd don't go harsh on Anthony Gordon. The club sold him for their own means.

On a totally random note, I had my membership pack come through.

A Goodison Park fridge magnet. I don't think that will survive contact. A car air freshener. That will be out of the window in minutes.

Some Everton socks. Good for walking the dogs.

The spine of the team looks strong with lots of effort and drive even if it is short on quality.

The Doucoure incident was never a penalty, the lad threw himself to the floor. If they start giving them, there will be a penalty at every corner and free-kick.

I am not Young's biggest fan but, given our spending position, he is proving to be a useful player for us. Okay, he is past his best but, for this season, he is doing a job for us.

We need to try and bring some goals into the team come January. We can't keep creating and not scoring.

Watching on Sky, there is no way 3,000 Evertonians can be that quiet! Volume up for the home fans and very little for the away support.

Garner was my MotM.

I have had a think about when I saw him and how unimpressed I was. I genuinely believe now, with hindsight, that he was suffering from sub's anxiety. Which drains energy and belief. Anyway, that's Dyche's dilemma.

In regards to their manager complaining about no penalty call, can anyone not say that if an Everton player was on a yellow card and committed 2 cynical fouls that were worse than the one he was booked for, he would have got a second yellow and red?

He was a massive Everton fan, his favourite moment was Michael Thomas scoring in the dying seconds at Anfield.

He's older than Gvardiol and Livramento, for example, and the same age as Saliba, Fofana, Van der Ven etc. It's partly down to injuries but he's still not got 50 top-flight league games under his belt in Scotland and England (and Scotland compares unfavourably to many European leagues and the Championship).

Aaron Hickey is younger and has double that in Scotland, Italy and the Premier League. So he really needs games now to catch up.

Gone are the days when a significant number of top players in the English league were Scottish. I do like John McGinn at Villa though.

I had the Patterson debate with my brother yesterday.

I've not written Patterson off yet.

In Scotland, playing for Rangers, he didn't need to be so switched on to his defensive duties; in England, he's been found out a few times and it's knocked his confidence a bit.

Dyche could turn him into a good defender, he's working wonders on Mykolenko, so let's hope he can get an improvement out of Nathan.

Will Onana get his place straight back in the team now?
It looks a settled side. Calvert-Lewin obviously gets in, but the rest are nailed on every week if fit, it looks like. Seamus I want to see play in this side.

But you can see the dilemma. He needs games in a team that worries it can't afford to give him games.

Coleman learned a lot at Blackpool – and then more again from Moyes and Martinez.

I think Patterson will be our starting right-back by the end of the season because he'll be getting a crash course of what Keiran Trippier got from Dyche at Burnley. Good defensive positioning and overlapping / crossing going forwards.

So that's why I felt a kindred spirit to him, apart from his musical genius and liking for an occasional pint.

I don't think Patterson's age is very relevant in a discussion of his football maturity. I think it's a function of how few games he has played.

At Rangers he was sitting behind captain Tavernier. With us, he has sat behind Coleman and now Young. In his entire top-level career, he has played less than 4,000 minutes. In league competition, just over 2,000. In other words, he has maybe one full season's worth of actual time on the pitch.

That's why he still plays like a teenager.

As for other parts, tell them they have your pity as it seems they can't afford to give much.

Garner was MotM while Harrison was crap. What match did they watch???

I wonder if they just watched the goal – which was the only decent spell of football in the whole game – and thought "Ah yes, that chap who launched the cross. We'll credit him with the assist for McNeil's smashing shot. 6/10"?

I'm puzzled why no-one seems to be giving him the assist?

He has played quite a few games for Scotland though.

To me, it seems like he's low on confidence and awareness plus that inconsistency that young players go through.

There's no doubt he is a good player but the question is whether he will get to the level where he is a regular Premier League starter.

I thought his best game was when he replaced Harrison earlier in the season and played just behind Young.

With Harrison not looking that great, that might be a way to get him up to par with Young coaching him through the game.

He'd learn alot with 6 months at championship level.
If we have seamus & young fit by Jan I'd give him the rest of the season at a decent championship club, get him back in the summer stronger, wiser, tougher & just more confident. I'd say it would be tougher than the spl but not as demanding as the prem.

If seamus & young are fit I don't see Dyche starting the lad. Getting young in was bad for him long term.
He definitely has ability, he's athletic and get up & down, but a full back/ wing back has to be a defender first and foremost, even more so in a Dyche side.

I think Nathan Patterson is a really good footballer, who needs games to help his development, and I don’t think he will be learning that much at the minute, stuck on the bench every week. When he gets his chance, I hope he takes it in a similar way to Brainthwaite.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pogues-singer-shane-macgowan-spoke-28205701?fbclid=IwAR2ipl-m9dLlqkYP9yWI5GDo2r7kVVGNCB7xYgJeXkWXhnj_eOltdEsqB80

I don't see him as lacking confidence at all. On the contrary, I love his "strut"... he's brashly unafraid to commit completely, whether in attack or defense.

But yes, he does sometimes lack awareness at the back, and that too is a function of simple inexperience. And David #200 is right, he won't start until his manager -- who prioritizes defensive organization -- is convinced he has the nous to coordinate with the rest of a Premier League backline that held Forest without a shot on goal for 83 minutes yesterday.

He definitely has the talent and the attitude.

The team looks better balanced and more confident when DCL plays but Beto is slowly improving. He is a bit ungainly at times although, as others have already pointed out, he is a real nuisance for defenders.

Nathan Patterson needs to stay patient, his time will come. He is a very talented player that seems to improve the longer the game goes on. Consistency and positioning let him down at times but he has all the right attributes and will become a great player I hope.

JP was very fired up yesterday he had a real connection with the away support. Some of his reactions to key moments are superb and he acts like a true blue these days.

As for the subject of chanting. To me unless it’s racially, tragedy or homophobic motivated it should be mainly considered as banter. Some of it is hilarious while a lot is just spouting shite - who cares? Sticks and stones and all that.

Oh, and in response to Scouser jibes, I often get comments about wheels. I normally respond by saying “sorry but today mate, I’ve run out of bricks”.

I had a decent talk with a couple of Forest fans on the way back to the car, they were decent enough lads (as most football supporters seem to be). They were saying that in a strange way they don’t mind too much losing to us given the circumstances! They accepted we were the better team on the day. The PL is corrupt in their eyes too and cited the sky 6 without any input from me. The Championship is much more enjoyable according to them and have no problem in going back down if it comes to it.

Finally, the PL have very successfully managed to unite our support to new level. In addition the relationship between the fans and the players must be at an all time high. Great to see and long may it continue.

Fuck the PL!

UTFT!

Dyche will do what any manager would do. He'll stick with what is Working for him...at least until it isn't.

Some people just get a notion stuck in their head and repeat it every game. All those who predicted with such certainty at the start of this thread that Young will be carded, exposed or roasted by the Nottingham speed merchant will not come on and hold their hands up and say they were proven to be completely wrong. They'll just be back for the next game saying exactly the same thing. Eventually they will call it correctly and they can shout "I told you so ".

There are now TWO pensioners who have kept Patterson out of the team under different managers. Maybe people should be asking why that is ?

I hope everyone gets behind whoever is selected on Thursday. An outsider reading the start of this thread would be forgiven for believing Young is the enemy

I hate positive threads before the game and much prefer negativity on these pages, because this usually brings out better results and performances, which probably means that most of us haven't really got a scooby doo!

To me it's a straight choice between two footballers who are currently fairly questionable.

But one has future upside, the other zero.

It should be a pretty straightforward choice really. I still can't fathom how it isn't.

I cannot see how you wouldn't task Patterson with Gordon this week as, while it may not work, it's at least got some chance. But I'm often surprised.

Time will tell but to me the fact that he persists with Young whilst seemingly waiting for Seamus's return says that he doesn't trust or cannot coach Patterson into what he requires

I know it's loads of ifs buts and maybes, but add our 10 points, then think of games at the start of the season when typically of Everton we didn't have a fit side or our transfers in place and look at where we could and probably should actually be.

Wolves game, Fulham game ( we had around 30 shots between them two games and I think 7 against us and lost 0-1 both times). That Luton game is a win 9 times out of 10 with the chances we blew.

Sheffield Utd draw, that's all without the stress of missing 5 glaring chances in a single half at home to Man Utd. Brighton getting a late deflected goal, the red shite getting away with the Konate decision at 0-0.

All that is pointless, I know, but when you look at where our 10 points back plus just 6 or 9 added to the 5 or 6 games mentioned above.

The Premier League has a few special sides, but many of the rest are just like us, they just have more balls or organisation.

Look what Emre has done with Villa in comparison to what Gerrard done, shows how easily a half-decent group of players can kick on in this league with a few tweaks. (I would add btw that Emre is a world-class manager, his in game decisions are in another league to those of Dyche.)

But looking forward, if we can get past this point deduction and not get stupid sanctions going forward, we could easily kick on next season, or put a decent cup run together this season.

On the other side, Mykolenko is stepping up. Patterson can come good.

Your last paragraph says it for me. We can slate bad performances, but it shouldn't cloud judgement on potential.

Stand by for Branthwaite to be next in the firing line when he eventually makes a mistake. The boy looks great though.

Good points on Gordon. He was playing in a struggling team with a weight of expectation on his shoulders. Now he's playing in a good team challenging with a different type of expectation and as you say, enjoying his football.

Sorry can't advise, but he should earn his corn sorting this predicament.

I think Gana Gueye has been great since he has come back into the side, scoring the winner against Palace and playing a lovely wall pass with Harrison to lay on the winner. I also think his closing down goes un noticed a lot. Branthwaite looks better and better every week and I am sure the vultures will be circling in the summer. The other player who doesnt seem to get much praise is Mykolenko for me he is the best left back in the Premier league, especially now Dyche is letting him get forward more to join the attack. Although Harrisons cross did eventually end up with McNeil I am not convinced he has enough quality. Beto wasted a good chance but he has hardly had any minutes and when players arent playing a lot they tend to snatch at chances like he did.

Do you think Emre would make better substitutions given the strength of our bench? Villa have spent a fortune and have a lot stronger squad that's why he can make subs.

Scratch below the surface and we don't have anything beyond the 11 starters.

I just don't get the criticism of Dyche with the subs.

Someone mentioned that he should have made 4 subs against Forrest...what 1 player did we have on the bench that would have improved us? Nevermind 4.

I got my membership pack through the post yesterday.

Fridge magnet, car sticker. Not happening in this house. I think it's a wallet and a suitcase tag, which might be useful.

Best of all, royal blue EFC socks with the new simple Prince Rupert's tower logo. Probably the most useful going into winter.

Villa stopping Bournemouth from getting all three was a good result and Forest may soon be pulled into the mix. Every game will be tough with the squad we have but, on any given day, if the whole team puts in a good shift and they don't give away any silly goals, then they can get decent results.

The Barcodes outplayed Man Utd but they are tough to get at in front of their own fans but a draw would be acceptable at Goodison.

I do believe we can beat Chelsea.

I can see where you coming from but I do think Isak, Bruno, Trippier and Livramento would get into most teams. They are also missing quite a few.

I am not saying they are world-beaters but a team that has those types of players have definitely helped Gordon whereas, at our place, a lot more pressure was on him to deliver due to the lack of quality in the team.

Glad to see that at least we are all getting the same items in the membership pack.

I'm in that London with the missus to see Moulin Rouge this evening and I'm wearing my Everton socks right now!

But the best freebee is the Bluetooth speaker that's “ready to purr” from last year. UTFT! 👍

"We have got a fantastic blend of experience and arrogant young players and that excites me."

Wow! I'm sure we all remember that night, but I honestly didn't think it was so long ago.

At no stage did I claim stating the blindingly obvious was making a prediction.

People telling us which players will get carded before the game starts ? Now they are predictions.

As with most predictions, the people making them disappear when they are wrong. They simply come back and make the same prediction the game after.
Eventually the law of averages will kick in and they get to shout I told you so.

Does our cause no end of good

Baby was one of my all-time favorites because I'd spotted him playing for Costa Rica against the United States and mused on these pages that we should sign him, and the following year, here he was. (On some level I will always believe Moyes read my post and investigated.) And then he got us a win at OT. Pure joy.

Oviedo played very little after leaving Sunderland in 2019 -- only 33 appearances in three years at FC Copenhagen -- but he has resurrected his club career here in the USA as a starter for a Real Salt Lake club that reached the playoffs this season. And he started all three games for Los Ticos at the World Cup.

Tbh mate I'm not one of these fans who think we are in any way better than Dyche, but I do genuinely think Dyche is slow when it comes to seeing the warning signs.

My main point would come via the Young route.

Brighton at home, Mitoma was always the threat, a simple thing of doubling up may have done enough to get it over the line. Maybe Harrison off and Patterson on, with Young on the wing helping out. Not exactly unheard of as Dyche did it a few days earlier in the cup.

Also, the derby, Young was always on for a red, maybe a big ask but I've seen the likes of Mourinho and Klopp take off players during the first half if it wasn't going their way on a particular day.

Man Utd game also, and again Young... please don't think I'm just anti-Young – it's just clear when a player is low as can be on confidence, sometime you need your manager to help you out and Dyche had Coleman, Patterson, and Godfrey all on the bench to play right-back. When he did actually get Young off, we were 2 down and he went like for like, I don't think a top manager does that, just my personal opinion.

Each game is different, but what I see is, in almost every game, Dyche can wait over an hour to do a like-for-like sub.

Dale @219,

It's not an argument I'm after mate, it's a personal opinion, I'm a realistic footy fan who goes to every Everton home match and just saying what I see.

Fact is against Fulham we had 9 shots on target to their 2, we lost 0-1. Against Wolves, we had 7 shots on target to their 2 and we lost 0-1. Luton scored 2 against us with only 2 shots on target to our 5.

So it's not like I'm just dreaming things up, I have some evidence to show you what I'm saying, but again it's still just an opinion.

As for ya stupid comment of "do one", erm, grow up! 🤷‍♂️

Dave Cashen. I never predict lineups let alone results. It's pointless and why I don't gamble on football and especially on Everton!!

I may come out with blind faith and optimism. Just wait until Thursday morning!!!

Reading ToffeeWeb whilst watching News Night on the BBC. Strange combination!