'This Is Pathetic, This'

Our passing game simply lacks imagination and a player to provide it!

At the start of the season, we were caught out by pushing our fullbacks forward – since then, Baines and Coleman have been shackled by both defensive thoughts and a lack of consistency in selection in the wide forward/midfield positions, with neither full back feeling comfortable in bombing forward. Yesterday, a talented Mirallas shifted left and right which did not help our full backs.

Whilst control of the football is important, we are all sick of seeing 60%+ possession with hardly a shot on goal. If Roberto wants to know what we want, I would say watch our first-half performance at the Emirates in the league last year. High intensity, high pressure and we played them off the park – though to be fair we didn't shoot too often that night.

I want to see more consistency in team selection to enable players to develop partnerships – haven't Chelsea played their strongest eleven in most of their recent games? Roberto is a lovely guy but his positive spin after poor performances is worse to watch than our beloved politicians and is starting to wear a bit thin.

Criticise when he deserves it but not when he doesn't, their goal was brilliant forward play following a mistake by Barry, no-one else.

Distin went to ground too easily to be fair. He’s looking a tired, leggy defender now.

That 6 for Jagielka is high when his bad pass put Hull on the counter and then Distin was skinned. Barkley, Mirallas and Lukaku looked lively whenever the ball came forward... which was almost never.

Barry was almost invisible, rushed back to soon in my opinion. There was no West Ham peformance from Osman who was back to his usual standard. Coleman and Baines failed to make an impression on the game.

And the less time the ball spends around Tim Howard the better but it was like a magnet to him.

By dallying on the ball we are prone to mistakes which is why Barry, Distin, Jagielka and Howard are all shaky. Our only goal threat at the moment is coming from Mirallas but again for some unfathomable reason he only lasts for 60 every game.

Last night's performance saw a team that sussed us out by breaking up play, upsetting our rhythm and out muscling us in every department. Martinez needs to have a Plan B. Whatever happened to our high-tempo pressing game and hunting in packs when we lost the ball? Now it seems the players don't really know what their roles should be.

I have been rattling the can for some time but unfortunately, those who are instrumental in making these things happen, don't seem to think we need to look elsewhere, and that Robles is an adequate replacement, waiting in the wings.

Although, I don't think Tim can be blamed for all our poor displays, which are growing as the weeks progress, I do think he has contributed more than anyone else.

Miami are supposed to sniffing round him as a Marquee signing (Beckham's new outfit) so maybe it would be a good time to cash in and get David Marshall on board, who I don't think would cost the earth, and would probably jump at the chance of returning to the Premier League.

David, if Paul doesn't want to answer that one I will. Hull used the same methods as Swansea (among others) to run the clock down. Players feigning injury to stop the game, waste some time and disrupt any rhythm that we had, on the occasions we had any, or put any pressure on them. How this ridiculous idea to put the ball out of play for ANY injury, not just a head injury, came into being is beyond me. Players are going down with the regularity of a porn star with any excuse, broken nail, lost an eyelash, anything to stop the game.

Unscrupulous teams will use any method to their advantage and gullible teams like Everton will bow down to their needs and put the ball out for a throw-in. Bloody stupid. And please, don't come on here claiming that the injured player "might" have been seriously injured. I "might" have been playing myself last night, but I wasn't.... Hull, Swansea etc., came for a point and will bend any rule to get one.

I agree with all you say; the mystery was why were Hull wasting time? They looked the more likelier team to score the winner.

Where's this fast flowing beautiful attacking football we were told would be coming to Everton? We score and we bottle it time and time again.

The fact they are getting paid a fortune every week to do just this only makes it all the more unfathomable.

McCarthy is happy passing sideways. He gets about the pitch but is no leader and provides absolutely nothing by way of invention. Don't tell me he is a defensive midfielder... I know that but in the modern day you have to contribute something going forward.

Fair enough. However, I never mentioned, mighta, coulda or shoulda.

I thought it a fair question to a post.

How could we have been so good v Wolfsburg – clinical, superb counter attacks – to turgid, slow, pointless tripe against Spurs and Hull?

After Man City, we have Krasnodar obviously, that's not relevant but our next 8 league games are:

QPR (H)
Southampton (A)
Stoke City (H)
Newcastle Utd (A)
Hull City (A)
Man City (H)
WBA (H)
Crystal Palace (A)

On paper, at least, we should win 6 of those, probably a draw with Soton and most likely a defeat v Man City. If we get less than 15 points from those, something is badly wrong.

If we can't beat QPR, write off top 6. Top 4 is already slipping away.

Totally agree with Ray (#10). We fall for it all the time, putting the ball out to be gentlemanly. And then, as always, the guy gets up and plays on. More annoying still is when the ref, as seemed to happen last night, even instructs a team what to do with the throw after these incidents.

How is it we have twatted Wolfsburg twice and put those boys to bed with no problems, yet when it comes to shite like Hull we are aimless and pathetic?

I thought Besic was far and away our best player (not saying much, but a bright-ish spot nonetheless), and Mirallas looked at least like he MIGHT provide something, which made it all the more bewildering and frankly, utterly, teeth grindingly infuriating when RM took those two off for McGeady (at least he ran at them I suppose) and Pienaar (way past his best).

It appears unfortunately that RM is a bit lost at the moment and – although I'm not going to start with the "RM out" bollocks – he needs to come up with something to fix these awful performances. Starting to pass the ball into dangerous areas would be a start, as would sorting out these second-half performance dips we are becoming accustomed to.

Come on, you Blues, let's get this sorted and at least put some pride and hard work in against Man City on the weekend.

Martinez's niceness prevented him from making two or three changes to the personnel at the beginning of this season, because he probably thought the same players as last season could get better; however, some of them have actually got worse and most have not got any better.

Martinez's tactics are not to blame because possession is everything in football, if the team wants to dominate the opposition. It is just the players not showing enough energy and zest with or without the ball; and at times, players are just downright careless and lazy by not being accurate and diligent with their passing.

This season is starting to petter out already, because last season's enthusiasm has already gone. All that is left is the cup competitions and finishing in a decent position in the league, as the manager, quite rightfully, should show the door to players who are not up to it, while giving others a chance. Otherwise, there might be more games like last night, when the fans boo the players off the pitch,

There is a lot of pruning to do at the end of the season: Alcaraz, Gibson, Osman, Pienaar, McGeady, and Distin, who looks weary.

Last night's display was rubbish. What's gone wrong with Barkley? most decisions he made went up blind alleys.

We really need to find a goalkeeper to replace Howard. Knee-jerk reaction no. It's been comming.

Good report. Ratings are a little generous! Mirallas was probably our best player.

Atrocious on the whole. Calling pathetic sideways and backward 5-yard passes in your own half a 'Style' is being kind. Mind-numbingly boring cowardice is what I'd call it.

possession is NOT everything in football. If it was, we'd be top of the league – unbeaten! It's no good having 70% possession and have 500 passes if 69% and 450 passes are in our own half. There has to be a reason, an end result and unfortunately we haven't got one.

Our play is boring, one dimensional and has been well sussed out by every team – apart from the European ones – this season. Howard's insistence on passing to defenders who are either already marked, or close to being so, immediately puts us on the back foot.

Defenders hardly ever look for the forward pass, continually making square passes until they're in the shit. This is solely Martinez's philosophy and I doubt it'll change. You are correct in pointing out the shite the players are producing but the perseverance in shite tactics by the manager is not helping the situation.

I was infuriated when we looked to put the ball out after Ossie (all five foot none of him) has a shoulder charge with the six-foot-plus defender who went down faster than Paris Hilton in front of a camcorder.

Miraculously the fella went off and then, 10 seconds later, ran back on the pitch.

One of the first things you learn in school footy is play to the whistle. If the player wants to re-enact the dying swan routine, then let him be a burden to his own team, not ours.

The team selection and motivation has been an issue since day one of the season. Our midfield (the heartbeat of any side) is woefully light in almost every team selection.

Apart from Barkley there were no injury concerns in the early part of the campaign so that should not be an excuse.

In short, I think RM is totally out of his depth. He has a small club mentality and is too laissez-faire for a club the size of Everton.

Love that! Sums us up in a nice nutshell. Boss supporters who always believe and continue to push the faith even after we get kicked in the teeth three days before.

YouÂ’re a nice kind-hearted fella, Paul, with 6s and 5s spread across the board. Actually you look like a really nice bloke in yer photos. I imagine that you give a lot to charities; better man than me!

Howard 4 - Coleman 4 - Jags 5 - Distin 4 - Baines 3 - Besic 8 - Barry 4 - Osman 5 - Mirallas 7 - Barkley 3 - Lu 6 - Pienaar 2 - McGeady 2

Martinez 3 - MartinezÂ’s subs 1 - Martinez post match chat 0

Booing 10

He's got to show that he has a greater capability than what he's shown so far this season. What we've got so far this season is probably what most of us expected we'd be getting in his first season. Improvement is urgently required.

If there is none and we find ourselves in the throes of an end-of-season relegation dogfight then I suspect that even Kenwright would be moved to call an early end to his tenure.

What has let Everton down has been defensive lapses and goalkeeping errors; and that is where Martinez has got to get a grips with, because great teams have a great goalkeeper and a great back four in front of him, who very rarely make mistakes.

The manager quoting tiredness is even more worrying. If they are too tired, why are they on the pitch? Why not use more substitutes.

WTF is going on with Gibson, Kone and Oviedo who have all had over 12 months recovery time? Why wasn't Atsu used? If he is not good enough to play against Hull then send him back to Chelsea.

Too many questions and BS answers from this manager.

Break the bank for a proper goalkeeper and bust up the comfort zone of players who believe they are immune from the axe. I've said it before, the only place I want the players to be happy is on the football pitch winning matches; what they do or don't do in training doesn't matter to me, and whether they are one big happy family in training isn't showing up in the results.

We need a few hungrier players who want to achieve things at Everton.

I think our passing game is a tactical fault/problem as far too much of it is square and non-productive. Baines and Coleman are highly effective both in creation and scoring, not the greatest defenders but excellent supporting the attack, take them out of the equation and our goal scoring would be well down. A lot of the defensive lapses stem directly from the passing game that takes place in our half.

As I said we miss a lot of opportunities to get the ball up quickly from defence because we are too slow and look for the easy sideways pass. I have no problem with a passing game and a sideways pass if there's nothing on up ahead but we pass it sideways as a matter of course.

Where Everton go wrong with their passing game, some Everton players are not comfortable holding on to the ball before passing; that's why the ball invariably goes all the way back to Howard, who just kicks the ball up front on behalf of defenders in front of him, who were not honest enough to do that in the first place.

As Besic proved in the World Cup, mark Messi closely and even the "best" player in the world cannot perform to his ability.

We have aging quality combined with potential but no real "generals" or matchwinners and lack the winning mentality of top class players.

It is wrong for RM, as discovered at Wigan, to try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear and impose a style of play that is alien to the players.

The reason for our lack of success this season is IMO a lack of fitness, motivation and poor team selection all of which comes back to the manager's door.

In a way the "goals for" tally doesn't seem real but it's true, you're right. I think it doesn't seem real because of the loss of points and the fact that for all our possession, we don't have more goals than we do.

And I do think that while our passing game lies behind some goals, there are significant other goals which have not been based on a passing game (mixing it up works! but we need more of it!); and that the passing game actually does for us in defence at times, putting pressure on panicky CBs and hence significant goals conceded that way.

Absolutely, Steavey. I was making the point last night to the fella next to me. After a long passage of possession, it ends up with the keeper, who does what... punt it up field, losing possession!

If you don't believe me, check the stats. The Europa is a killer. I blame this competition for the extra injuries and fatigue. Let's face it, we ain't going to win it and we gain very little financially... What is the point apart from our fans being able to go on the lash abroad?

All who enter are doomed.

As for the Europa League over PL, really? Besides the fact there are several sides better than us currently in the competition, once the CL sides come in, we are out.

Yet another manager who believed his own hype. Dreadful.

Next one, please.......

Perhaps you could ask your pie-eating relatives if this is correct; I'm hoping the answer is No... but suspect it might be Yes.

Makes the possession stats look heathy, though, eh?

I was also told that the regular keeper Al Habsi never kicked long but preferred to throw long distance (à la Westy)!

ps: Why didn't Bobby sign him instead of No Balls Robles?

100% correct. Obvious to anyone who understands football.

I mentioned on a thread on here somewhere that there is no movement so all that happens is pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, back where you started then repeat.

Everytime Ross got the ball last night, he had three men on him straight away but no-one was running into the space. What's he supposed to do? He keeps hold of it gets tackled and everyone gets on his back saying "You're keeping hold of it too long, you greedy bastard."

He passes it into space but no-one runs on to it and everyone gets on his back saying "That's a shit ball that, who was that to, Barkely lad?"

The very best players make things happen regardless. Just think how brilliant Rooney was in a crap side.

I guess I didn't make my point clear. Which was that it was a waste of time to pass, pass, pass rather than a quicker ball forward, if the end result is only for the ball to go back to the keeper and for that to then go where? Where a quicker ball forward in the first instance would have gone – but with more accuracy. So let's get it forward more quickly a bit more often. Probably what you want as well!

McCarthy should be nailed on, with either Besic or Barry next to him. Then Mirallas should be nailed on for one wing, with Lukaku up front. That leaves two crucial midfield players, who should be contributing goals and assists... who are they?

Barkley – he is not there yet, and if he is going to get there, he needs to be playing behind the striker, not out wide. Eto'o? Naismith? We can only play one of the three with Lukaku up top, and need to stop sticking square pegs in round holes. That leaves one wide position, where Osman, Naismith, Barkley and Eto'o should not play, because they are not wide players – their skills are not suited to the wide areas; when they play wide, they muck up our shape, and effect the ability of our full back to get forward.

Pienaar, in my opinion, should play, or even Oviedo, because as least he is a natural wide player, even though if may be a case of playing a slightly less square peg in a round hole. We need to get the structure right with a consistent first 11, and concentrate on increasing our creativity in the final third. We need more urgency, and quite simply, more confidence.

There are things wrong at the moment but, as I said a few weeks ago, any talk of a relegation fight is the talk of idiocy. We have some top players in this side, but lack creativity. We will come good at some sort, but when? And what will be left to play for? An 8th-place finish? It is not good enough at the moment, and Martinez, and of course the players, must shoulder the blame.

I've consistently asked one question of Martinez since the day he took over: Will he be able to retain the stability of the Moyes defence as players age, and need replacing? I have another now: We he will be able to introduce the creativity we need in the final third?

I fear that Barkley will never be that creative player, and therefore it will have to come from another wide player, who I do not think we have at the club at the moment.

We need more urgency too, and more forward momentum. Obviously it is a question of tactics, but it is also a question of confidence. Personally, I think this team will do much better, and has done much better, and is suffering from a lack of confidence at the moment, and a fear which is preventing sharper passing.

We've got Man City away next, and personally I'm glad. I would rather play an extremely tough team, than a team we are expected to beat, and break down, at home. City will come onto us, and a good performance will remind the team of what they can do. The team need to stand up, and Martinez does too.

As it turned out, there wasn't... but the most worrying thing for me was their style of play – exactly what we are seeing from the first team – farting about at the back.

It's obviously being coached into them... so much for the future!

We've only given up 6 goals in the last 10 games. Are you guys paying attention? Or is it because you expect shutouts in EVERY game?

Easy to say in retrospect, of course, but you do wonder how they monitor players' tiredness.

But that was tempered by the fact that it was pre-season and it would just take a little time. Well, we're firmly into the middle of year two and the football is exactly the same, defenders passing it around in their own half, the opposing team closing them down, and no ideas in the final third.

And if you really think about it, most of our goals have been either sublime shots that rarely come off so well or very lucky goals where it's a rare scramble in the box. When do we actually break down an opponent's defense with slick passing in the final third and slide a man through on goal? In all honesty, we're lucky to even be where we are in the table.

Possession in itself means nothing. Chelsea had less of the ball than Spurs last night yet still won 3-0. Only last year we had 79% of the ball at Crystal Palace only to draw 0-0 (and Palace had the best 3 chances of the match!). Wolfsburg had the lion's share of possession in both their games against us and lost 6-1 on aggregate. It's what you do with the ball that matters! And fannying around at the back unnecessarily does not hurt anyone – except occasionally ourselves!

Martinez needs to encourage a Plan B when teams press us high - as most teams will now do, waiting for us to cock-up at the back. Mixing things up is good. We are not Barcelona at their peak!

Just as an aside – anyone else notice Robles doing an extensive warm up at half-time? Howard was clearly injured and reluctant to kick the ball long – yet we still persisted in playing the ball back to him. Distin even took a long throw back to him – which wouldn't have reached if Jags hadn't headed it back to him! If Howard could not kick the ball properly, Robles should have been on at half-time.

As was to be expected, I was assailed on all sides – many even denied Martinez indulged it – and it was suggested that I longed for a return to 'the dinosaur era of Moyes when defenders too often hoofed it'.

Well, I have to fess up. There were lots of times last night when I wished to God they would do just that if only to break the bloody monotony!!!

But, in truth, Roberto must have been as pissed off as we were and will be telling his 'stars' to stop making him look a crap manager. Because he isn't.... is he?

Duncan Ferguson...

The real issue isn't the passing, it's the complete lack of pace, desire and invention. Last night we played like a team that was either helpless, out of sorts with itself/Martinez, or 'tired'. If we were tired, why did he leave out energetic players in form, replacing them with players who didn't look fit? Why take off Besic and Mirallas when they were the only good performers?

I was half anticipating this last season. When we looked solid defensively, I thought we would build on things this season and pass the ball with more pace. Everything's gone backwards: poor defending, dire goalkeeping and no pace. If the players really are 'tired', I'd raise questions about the ability of Martinez and his staff to assess fitness of players, especially after the non-pre-season we had.

Whatever Martinez is telling the players – and unlike some, I don't believe for a second that he's telling the players to pass the ball slowly with no pace or movement – it isn't getting through to them. The only person to blame for that is Martinez. It's down to him to rectify it.

Don't underestimate Bill Kenwright. If there is one thing he hates, it is to loose is money, and in Smith's time there were not the financial gains as there are today with TV money and finishing league position monies.

To give an example – in 2012-13 season, Everton recieved 㿟.8M and in 2013-14 season there was an increase of about 㿍.2M to 䀁.8M.

To me, if BK thinks that Everton are going to start loosing money, he may do something about it.

[Anyone who thinks these figures are wrong, I got them from the Daily Mail.]

A throw-in is supposed to be an advantage. Why don't we ever make anything of them?

We're just as crap at corner kicks. Apparently the goals scored from them are something in the region of 0.01%. On that basis, we'd be better off tapping the corner off for a goal kick and hope that that we gain possession from the goalkeeper belting 70 yards in our direction.

I don't recall said "undermining", so I checked the dates...

Gavin McCann? He departed in November 1998 having played barely a handful of games for Everton. Gascoigne didn't arrive until July 2000...

Hutchinson left around the time Gascoigne was signed up (I didn't check the exact dates) but The Don had been on his way for months, as he revealed himself, over Everton not willing to up his wages.

Hutchinson and McCann 'undermined' by Gazza coming in? Not sure that's a case you can make stand up, to be honest.

He has started coming for crosses at last (in his mid thirties) but the rest of his game has gone to shite and a poor, erratic and inconsistent keeper seriously undermines the defenders in front of him. Give Robles or Hibbert five games in goal.... hey won't be any worse.

Howard's judgement off the field appears to be as iffy as it is on it as (in order to flog his fresh-from-the-World Cup book) he appears to unnecessarily slag Friedel off. The sooner he disappears, the better, as far as I'm concerned....he's a liability!

The difference with them and Hull is that they played their own attacking game at home with little care of what we were doing. Whereas Hull came to Goodison with a clear, well thought-out plan of how they would stop us from playing our game, and it worked.