Miserable Boxing Day fare for the Blues

Probably dropped for being too aggressive and showing too much desire. Barry had better perform today...

WhoÂ’s gonna charge at them Stoke guys now?

Barry, McCarthy our two DM obviously with Mirallas on one wing and Lukaku up top, thats all fine but either Naismith or Barkley out wide again, worrying...

Wonder whats the story with Besic missing?

It is totally clear that Everton do have only one way to play... they do not learn anything. Come on for f sake.. Play the ball more quickly forward, play less passes backwards, and put more players quicker up front!!

What the point of distributing to the wings when our 8/10 of our crosses are shit?

If what happened to Bojangles warranted a penalty, then surely we should have had one for what happened to Mirallas in the opening minute.

Mirallas should have tucked that one away, and (given who would replace him) itÂ’s a concern to see Howard limping off at half time.

Barkley has been awful, and we have the winger problem again. Mirallas should have scored, but is always dangerous, and is a level above the other attacking midfielders at the club. It is incredibly worrying that Stoke can break on us, and look so dangerous, especially when we have two deep lying midfielders on. It might be because the crowd are on the players back, but that is a bit problem. We either have to be very solid at the back or scoring lots of goals: we canÂ’t be neither. I think being solid at the back, playing with 2 dms, and giving the ball to the attacking players quickly makes sense. We need to use the pace and power we have, and not move the ball so slowly - it is partly tactics, and partly because the confidence isnÂ’t there.

FFS!

God knows why we signed Kone as now he is fit and we still do not see him play. He must be used at sometime otherwise it is ridiculous. The lad played well in the two games I saw him play and he is a striker.

Bobby, you havenÂ’t got a fuckin clue.

Players, you havenÂ’t got a fuckin clue either.

IÂ’ve never watched a more boring disinterested set of twats in my life. Merry fuckin Christmas.

He has to go... no balance to the side, tactically inept.

The players simply are not playing for him and are not fit enough either. We should have had a blood and thunder performance after the Southampton disgrace but we got a team of shy, quiet wankers instead.

Pathetic.

More or less what the commentator said at final whistle. Bang on the money.

I have seen enough. Everton make it too simple for the opponents as they keep on playing the same shite game after game. That is why they lose. If Martinez can not change this game the next 5 matches, I am not behind him anymore... then sack him.

ItÂ’s so frustrating to watch this shower of shite, I canÂ’t see us improving any time soon and bobby has ready stated that there wonÂ’t be any new arrivals in January. ItÂ’s looking really bleak and were heading back to the mike walker days here am afraid.

If we lose against Newcastle and Hull then I fear RM is in serious trouble. After that we have Man City. Barry was terrible, likewise Coleman and Lukaku. Bad times, worrying times.

Fecked off to the extreme...

His one remaining substitution he takes off McCarthy and brings on EtoÂ’o sums up for me that this manager hasnÂ’t a clue.

Coleman and Baines were terrible again as was Lukaku but for me Barry was the worst player on the pitch with his aimless passing, he should have been sent off too for that tackle he was booked for.

Depressing stuff, I said last week we have 5 or 6 players that need a kick in the arse and be dropped, Bobby doesnÂ’t have the balls to do it

I hope youÂ’re right Tony.

Plan B appears to be bury head in the sand.
That difficult second season is here Roberto.

Phenomenal it ainÂ’t.

Be surprised if Howard, Stones, Jagielka, Mirallas and McCarthy make the Newcastle game and why wasnÂ’t Besic at least on the bench today.

We are becoming Wigan very quickly.

Those attackers in the middle tried to force the ball through the middle, but hereÂ’s the thing... every team knows that if you sit back Lukaku will go missing - Every - Fucking - Time.

I have changed to Australian time and slept through the alarm I set so missed most of the match. Saw the final 10 minutes and that was enough. Here we have players not playing for the manager. 0-1 down with five to go, and there was no urgency. It was like they only needed a narrow loss to progress from a knock-out tie or something.

DidnÂ’t see JagsÂ’ injury, but by god I hope he gets a few games out and someone with a bit of heart gets the armband. I saw more hassle towards the ref in those final minutes than I have in years watching Everton.

Finally, can someone tell me how, on the field or off, someone hasnÂ’t put a sharp object through Charlie AdamÂ’s face? He is one of the most dispicable human beings I have seen in the Premier League era.

In my mind Besic was the man for this game his aggressive tackling perfect for Stoke. Now Barry gets his ton of yellows the most by any player in the history of the league and premiership. The game was a pile of shit with two shit sides now in a real relegation dogfight.

With Newcastle and Hull away we could be firmly entrenched in the bottom six. Burnley QPR look doomed and the way we played today I think we are Doomed. What happened to Howard break a finger nail or something?

Problems we are faced with is how the hell do we bring Baines and Coleman into the game, they get the ball late, marked and facing brick walls. Lukaku must be joined by someone else up top, someone who stays in box, holds up play and is available for crosses or available to help Baines and Coleman get in game. Lukaku comes too deep, and if and when we get round the back thereÂ’s no one at all in box.

Barkley is a luxury who will glitter about one in five games but again played too far up or out wide, his best position is deeper but you have to realise he useless at defending. Stones will give the ball away, he just will, his style is one of taking risks and as in pre-season he will give chances to the opposition.

Our counter attacking has just evaporated, one good chance from about 6 opportunities today, the other 5 just get caught up in poor decisions.

Lastly Eto is really a waste of space, he comes on, wants to dictate the play and he just cant, and we are about to witness whether Robles will ever be a Premiership goalie. We all need to pray.

I said after the Southampton game that the next game was a turning point of both Martinez being able to turn things around and if not if BK had any backbone .Martinez failed and I am not going to hold my breath on BK.

I have absolutely no more faith in him. I knew our last coach, however poor the football, would keep us safe. I believed after serious initial doubts that we had the right man. Not any more. He may well turn it round ; frankly, though, I donÂ’ t want a coach who, with a good squad, finds himself needing to turn it round at Christmas.

The first half of the season was abysmal. The chairman must do what is necessary now.

Problem is, every time Baines picked up the ball he had nobody down the line to link up with so he had to play the ball back inside time and time again.

I agree full with you on Lukaku it bugs the hell out of me that a guy his size cannot head the ball or hold it up.

Garbutt should be brought in on left side of midfield for our next game, at least he can cross the ball and take a corner, Kone on and drop Lukaku.

Bench Barry too if we have anyone fit who can play there

WonÂ’t change?

Must change!!!

Martinez, after some good results last season, appears to have fallen flat on his face this season and many times he looks like a deer in the headlights on the sideline. Being beaten by a weakened Saints side without scoring and then by Stoke without scoring is an indicator where the main problem is.

Most fans have hit on the problems today and now we have to wait to see what BK does to arrest the problem before we end up in the bottom three.

The obvious danger is that we get sucked into a vortex and I share the concern that we have no characters, apart from Besic and maybe McCarthy, who could get us out of it. If Jagielka is injured then that may present an opportunity, long overdue, to get a serious captain. I have suggested Macca or, against current form, Coleman.

The other need is to get in a winger and a striker, even if they are shorter term options, in January. Buy or loan it matters not but this has become a stagnant squad and we are conspicuously lacking in pace up front. RM says he wonÂ’t add anyone but he has no choice on this evidence.

Other obvious route is to bring in Garbutt and play Baines ahead of him, as so many have said.

I am a consistent supporter of this manager but we are all bound to recognise that what is happening, and has been happening for a while, is simply not to the standard demanded.

.

Baines and Coleman were marauding full back who were always getting in behind the defense and either putting in quality balls or getting shots away. Now? The play is static, players donÂ’t make runs behind the defense because the tactics are to just make the safe pass and play it backward when pressured. Every single match, this is what happens.

And the amount of space between the players when in possession, itÂ’s a joke. TheyÂ’re never within 20 yards of each other, so the passes have to cover too much ground and the defense is never under pressure. They can just step in front of the long passes and intercept.

And itÂ’s no coincidence that the only time we did have a chance to score was when we played a direct ball over the top and the players all just ran at the defense. It wasnÂ’t slow passing from the back. It was Howard sending it over the top and catching the defenders on the break. ItÂ’s really not a complicated game. You attack the defense, thatÂ’s literally where the saying "on the back foot" comes from, the defenders are running backwards and having to react to the attacking players.

This manager does not have any other ideas, this is it. Last season the players still played with the defensive solidity that was instilled under Moyes. ThatÂ’s what our success was based off of last season, we didnÂ’t concede goals. This manager has completely killed that side of our game now and he has no clue when it comes to attacking football in the English game. He has got to go.

Most concerning is the absence of team spirit from the squad. When was the last time we came from behind to win? The players totally lack self-belief. There is a distinct whiff of lethargy and an absence of passion. Horrible sense of foreboding.

As for the performance... I think we showed a (little) bit more urgency and intent but it still wasnÂ’t good enough. The result is more important than the performance and, today, Martinez showed he doesnÂ’t know how to get it. Two games left Bobby, then you can go on an extended holiday at our expense.

BTW, our best midfielder today was Baines when he came into the middle at various times. ItÂ’s been kicked around now ever since Lahm made the switch. I think itÂ’s time we tried him in place of Barry.

Martinez out... itÂ’s time we get a true blue in charge.

I swear heÂ’s afraid to have Kone come on and overshadow Lukaku.

Anyone else questioning how much more of this shite you want to take?

Millionaire players and Manager going home to their luxury mansions whilst we vent our despair and anxiety.

IÂ’ve Â’kept the faithÂ’ for 40 years and IÂ’m sure many of you have many more than that under your belt.

IÂ’m beginning to question if we are just mugs?

Colin Glassar suggested earlier today that we needed all of the teams below us to win so we could make up ground on those above us. When I suggested the opposite to keep the gap between us and those teams below us, he rather patronisingly suggested that I "look on the bright side". Well guess who got lucky today that they all did lose otherwise we would be closer to the bottom teams right now.

The problem is, those Â’lesserÂ’ teams arenÂ’t all going to lose all of the time. How many are we going to win?

If we donÂ’t change the manager soon, and hire someone who knows what they are doing, we are going down. This idiot has lost the players. They donÂ’t believe in him and we getting shafted by officials in the process especially in not protecting players from thugs masquerading as footballers.

Get someone in to get these players at it and maybe, just maybe we will survive.

He will hide behind some poor ref decisions but, even if they had gone down to 10 men, it still would have been the same result.

Abysmal to watch and we are now in a drastically worse state than when Moyes left us. Martinez is just tactically inept and I see no hope of improvement under him. HeÂ’s got to go.

At worst we could be in real trouble in a couple of weeks or at best have a season that is over.

It seemed so positive after last season but itÂ’s crashed badly. Injuries yes but I think the loss of Pienaar, Distin and Barry as an effective force due to advancing years and not having the tragically underrated Osman to plug the gaps has been a blow but perhaps one not so difficult to have foreseen?

The Lukaku gambit would seem to have failed , heÂ’s not the type of player who can make us play well only one who would flourish if we could play well?

It looks to me as the building we did over the last 3 transfer windows and from the Academy has failed and that we need to do it again with a lot less money available. Either that or we have to have a manager with the flexibility to resolve things or a new manager. The new manager is the last thing we should do now and in many ways I support Bill Jong Il in his loyalty.

Are we in crisis? Not yet for me but when the rot sets in it can drag down good clubs very quickly and RM needs to act very quickly and he needs to think out of his comfortable box. His tip tap doesnÂ’t work and sides know that by forcing up on us we canÂ’t play. We donÂ’t do 4-4-2 or 3 at the back but we do 4-5-1 well with one holding midfielder like Carsley not 2 as we insist on playing now.

I watched Chelski stroll it against a WHU side that played very hard at lunch time and guess what, Chelski donÂ’t do tip, tap unless the backward ball is the best or thereÂ’s nothing else on; they are beautifully direct. Mind you position for position they have some of the best in the world like Azpilicueta, Ivanovic, Hazard, Oscar, Diega Costa, Matic (what a player), Ces Fabregas, a rejuvenated John Terry and a great shape. I think the League is already gone to them good as City are and I think the concept of Everton getting to dine at the same table, as in top 4 are pure fantasy now and forever unless we find a great Sheiker. WeÂ’re next division down..

Pullis, Royle, Keane, Aldridge as our next manager? Pass me the revolver.

Vanity football with no real use of the ball that could punish a team who couldÂ’ve taken a nap for most of the second half. No movement, quick passing, pace, width or attacking with intent. Set pieces a waste of time again (corners feel like a goal kick to the opposition). No change of tactics to make things happen. No one leading us to victory. A group of individuals.

After IÂ’ve seen enough to know we should cut our losses now.

Martinez Out.

My concern is whether Martinez has the ability to turn this around and regain the faith of the players and fans. There has just been so little in our performances that inspire faith. Flimsy at the back, uninspired up front and worst of all so little heart and guts from the players.

What has happened?

In times past, when this type of form surfaced, the sensible thing to do is circle the wagons, go back to basics, and become hard to beat. Pig-headed Martinez will probably just throw in more attacking midfielders to demonstrate how heÂ’ll be sticking to his principles. Well, Bobbie you stuck to those principles at Wigan and they played Leeds in the Championship today.

I want action because IÂ’m afraid weÂ’re all style over substance; we may not go down this season but the Martinez style will do so next season. If the Hull, Newcastle and West Ham games pan out how we all expect, then IÂ’m afraid it should be Adios, Bobbie...

Since the end of last season Marinez in every aspect of his management has looked unfit to manage this club. This is, of course looking with hindsight because I have defended him on the evidence of his first season. Last week was the worst performance by a coach I have ever seen at any level in my life. There are no excuses for his continued insipid ineptitude. A club with any kind of ambition would be rid of him.

If they do go for a new manager IÂ’d hope that theyÂ’d promote from within rather than bring in yet another new broom. Perhaps Jags as player Coach?

My current feeling is that RM is a snake oil salesman but itÂ’s been a bad day.

What a fucking pity Martinez wasnt around in the summer to "see what he was after" - A move to the prem.

Bojan has already won several games for Stoke, he cost less than 2m and Mark Hughes was able to sign him because he was totally focused on Stoke this summer

Jags as player -coach, could you explain why?.

If he doesnÂ’t then he s too stubborn to be a decent coach.

But letÂ’s give him a bit more time for the penny to drop.

If this was any other team from the supposed top 6, there would be nuclear fall out, but hey we’re plucky little Everton – happy to be here – after all, there is always next season... right?

WeÂ’re Everton: No pressure, no expectation, no belief, no respect!

DonÂ’t start making a list of the gems Martinez missed this summer, youÂ’ll only depress yourself.

Will BK act? Well, I donÂ’t think heÂ’s anywhere near as into RM as he was Moyes. Furthermore, heÂ’ll be under pressure from his unofficial backers (Green etc) to make sure their hopes of a financial return from moving to a new ground and then selling up are not flushed down the pan through relegation. I reckon that defeats in all of the next 3 PL games will see Martinez out the door.

My only worry; how far do we let him persist with this un-entertaining passing style of play, will it be at the expense of our status at at this level, I really hope not!

What the hell was he thinking bringing ETO on again to have ETo Nais Luk Mirallas and Barkley all in the same space.

He needs to go asap.

Best bit is the players trust these coaches so its a win win situation. Martinez has rubbish coaches who just agree with him all the time,even when they know its wrong too!
Walker nearly relegated Everton operating the same way so perhaps we wont be so lucky this time round . Me? Id let Martinez go and invite Stubbs and Irvine back to run things. But perhaps because im worried ,im now desperate?

I have never in forty five years supporting Everton had less faith in a coach. I am happy to admit to being blinded by the snake oil charm but he must go.

I blame BK for the lack of talent available because to me he obviously refuse to spend a quid till he had Lukaku signed. Where Chelsea played us like a fine tuned fiddle. WeÂ’re so hell bend on making him a complete striker we donÂ’t play to his strengths instead letÂ’s use this year to teach. Same with Ross lets play him out of positIon to make an all around player out of him.

Still thought without a doubt the 4-2-3-1 formation that must not be changed whatsoever is the worst.

The performances are as bad as the results.

It is unacceptable.

COYB!

It was nothing like the Southampton affair, but not worthy of some of the over-reaction on here.

We didnÂ’t get the rub of the green, but on the positive side, we didnÂ’t miss Jags or Howard!

Also, why does Mirallas act like he has been tasered every time he gets fouled.
The refs all watch Match of the Day, and will be even less likely to give him free kicks. I thought he must have diddled himself , with his reaction.

Baines moved into the middle at times and we suddenly looked much better. Time for Garbut at left back, and Baines in the middle.

Barkley was a spectator, time for him to have a rest. Kone has to start at Newcastle, with Rom on the bench. Good job Nais is banned, he was useless wide right, and is only effective at ten, behind the striker.

When Mirrallis is good he is very good, but when he is bad he is very bad, today he was the latter. When you are having a bad run like we are now, you never get the rub of the green and the ball will not run for you, the big decisions will go against you, like today.

As Eddie said we were not great but not as bad as most are saying on here.

The only success weÂ’ve had since 1970 was when when we appointed a player coach in Howard Kendal who blossomed into a great manager. It was a bit tongue in cheek but paying millions for a manager who accomplishes nothing is common, is it really that difficult?

I just canÂ’t see Jagielka as that person, he doesnÂ’t inspire as a captain never mind a coach.

WeÂ’ve analysed this to death on here but I think there are a number of problem areas

- Each year, no matter how well youÂ’ve done, you need to refresh the squad. We promised to do so, with the extra EL demands, but in truth didnÂ’t. We had no meaningful increase in senior players, Besic aside (arguably- because he hasnÂ’t played very much). We should have shipped a few out and shipped a few in. No more than that, but I think squads do need invigorating.

- We keep playing players out of position, partly because….

- We are woefully inadequate out wide, now we know that Pienaar is past it, Atsu is not Delboy and McGeady is as inconsistent here as he was at Celtic and Spartak.

- Possession does not equal goals. I hope after today, the penny finally drops with Martinez. I would ask him to instead consider just how many goals are scored after more than 20 passes. Or even more than 10.

- Plan B or C would come in useful, preferably in a controlled fashion responding to whatÂ’s happening on the pitch, rather than an act of desperation on the part of the players.

- Practise set pieces. ThatÂ’s a good way of scoring. This wonÂ’t spoil the pretty football that won the set piece in the first place.

- We seem to have a problem with conditioning. We get lots of injuries, poor recoveries. I wonder if this is also connected with the appalling pre season.

- Never let it be said I told you so but it is perhaps not wise to spunk the next 2 years transfer budget on a player that the best manager in the game has unequivocally deemed to be not good enough, having had a good hard look, and who got relegated to third choice striker for Belgium, behind a guy who Liverpool donÂ’t think is even ready to play PL.

IÂ’m sure others can add the ones IÂ’ve missed. Having said all that, I donÂ’t think now is the time to sack Martinez. I think he has earned the right to try and fix things but he does need to see that there is much to be fixed and that we do need to refresh in January.

Mind you, boys pen Billy needs to understand that too, otherwise, he’ll lose his train set….

I believe he realises, a little late, to put it mildly, that heÂ’s mucked up big time this season. I want him to succeed but if we are still languishing towards the bottom half of the table come April then ye he,ll have to go.

But he could turn it round. Look at west ham and to a lesser extent newcastle. What Martinez has to do is play everyone in their natural position and play only those in form no matter their reputations. If he does that we can climb up the table.

Sorry Nick Armitage but the Pienaar of three years ago I could agree with you but the last 2 plus year his best and most often used offensive play is to dive.

It isnÂ’t the lack of Pienaar causing damage to BainesÂ’s game itÂ’s the fact that he hasnÂ’t had a proper rest is in three years. He plays every game for us as well as every England friendly or WC qualifier same for JagÂ’s both need a rest.

That said, after our fast-paced start in the first couple of minutes, I thought something had changed, then we soon slipped back into the slow, boring approach which has long been sussed out.

The ref was a joke. But it wasnÂ’t his fault we AGAIN created next to nothing.

Mirror image of last Boxing Day with a home defeat to a side in red and white stripes decided by a first half penalty. Although, that day, Sunderland were well and truely hammered and were lucky not have been beaten by a large score. Unlike our feeble Â’effortsÂ’ today.

Martinez is surely skating on thin ice right now. Though I doubt that clown Kenwright will even consider pulling the trigger.

We are Everton remember Nil Satis and all that. If I was BK I wouldnÂ’t be taking risks. Martinez will take us down!

The squad we have is full of talent and this is why I think we are all so at a loss. It can only be down to the management as many of the old guard are reliable pros who play with pride.

Mistakes we can put up with, and loss of form happens to even the best, but it is something more worrying that is sparking such despondency especially after we had so many high hopes.

As in most games this year we had massively more possession yet lost .

And no wonder we canÂ’t / donÂ’t get it out quick from the back when we have 3, even 4, layers up front totally static, as happened far too often today.

Tell us something we donÂ’t know! Every one of your points has been done to death on here over the past month or so and as Pink Floyd wrote " The Song Remains The Same".

Bottom line is this, the manager has shown he is lacking in tactical awareness and football acumen. He tells people he watches the game 24/7 and has been described as a "Student of the game".

Well heÂ’s just pissed his whole student grant up the wall in one night as far as IÂ’m concerned and the inept performances are down to him and him alone.

Not only does he bring his redundant football philosophy (which got his last team relegated) with him, he also expects us to believe and swallow the bullshit that follows the aftermath.

That today was pathetic.

Get rid of the useless twat as soon as we reach safety.

In the present football set up, we along with 14 or 15 other clubs have no chance in the League apart from being honourable losers.

Change the manager if you must but it will make sod all difference.

1) Board who doesnÂ’t care about trophies but making money, by hook or by crook. End of.
2) old school fans who will always be there and never question those on top. Happy to lose for 19 years and keep filling the stadium
3) old stadium that holds the team back
4) no assets to sell or lease anymore.
5) weak players who choke. Years of losing have left this once proud franchise a shadow of itself and the losing "stink" is everywhere now. A second tier club.
6) clueless manager that the Board can hype up as being the best in the land. Clueless, dead-ass lap dog fans eat it up and accept mid table.

To make anything happen, #2 needs fixing immediately. All I see is misty eyed old fans who want to watch videos of the 80Â’s all the time and talk about their history (completely ignoring the present and future). Nothing happens without #2.

Shocking comment in my opinion

I pray the BooÂ’s help bc we havenÂ’t won shit in 19 years of you showing up having a giddy good time with your pals.

We are losing fans by the handful each and every game. All of the new fans that came bc of Howard are now questioning if they made the right choice. ItÂ’s not disgraceful, itÂ’s reality. Wake up! Hate that thereÂ’s booing but hopefully something will change.

This said, I can see absolutely no reason for keeping Martinez in post. He is showing no signs of getting things right. WeÂ’re this seasonÂ’s Norwich City and Martinez should be made this seasonÂ’s Houghton -- but somewhat earlier than when he got the chop

Seriously lad, what do you think the chances are you could teach me anything about football you Muppet? IÂ’ve seen it all before, way before you and your ilk joined with Tim Howard and way before the 19 years you quote without I would guess understanding anything about, well, anything. Far worse than this has happened in that time, but you wouldnÂ’t know anything about that would you?

IÂ’ve got more news for you: the handful of fans you say Everton are losing every game really arenÂ’t fans at all.

See ya. Close the door behind you.

Clown

I am a #2 so let me address your points one by one:

1. Most boards are only interested in making money thatÂ’s their job - but thy did give our manager the nod to spend $28m on a new striker.

2. As stated above, I am what you would call an old school fan – I watch videos of the games I saw in the sixties. I am totally cheesed of about what is going on at the moment and, like many of my fellow "old school fans", have aired our discontent on ToffeeWeb in various posts.

3. Football is played on the pitch – not in the stands (oops... nearly said "terraces").

4. We have got plenty of assets to sell – Coleman, Barkley, McCarthy, Stones – but, without them, there is no future.

5. Weak players who choke – perhaps maybe one or two – it’s the manager’s job to weed them out. Second Tier club – definition: any club not in the Sky 4.

6. Clueless manager – many would agree. "Clueless dead-ass lapdog fans eat it up and accept mid-table"? You’re talking shite – read the Southampton thread.

I am a misty-eyed old fan – what the fuck does STAT mean? – And is he allowed to use capitals on here, Michael.

These old school fans you are slagging off at are the life-blood of the club (fuck this "franchise" shite). Without that link with the past, the club will die. We have seen our great football club in its pomp and we want to see it again. That is why so many of us are so wound up about what is going on here at the moment.

In other words, Christopher, I think your post is – by and large – a load of old cobblers.

No fire in the bellies of our players, and do you know what ? ItÂ’s the players who are playing shite right now, IÂ’d love to join In the blame game and get onto Robertos case, but those on the pitch are far too comfortable.

Look, IÂ’m not sure boycotting matches is the right answer. ItÂ’s been bandied about for years. It may well be wrong. But to do the same thing every year and expect a different result is insane; so, at the very least, youÂ’re insane. Maybe booing or not showing up will change things. IMO, people that boo are still paying and we have a proven track record that nothing will change that way.

I see new fans completely mystified that Howard is not nearly as good as they thought and frankly, theyÂ’re not that interested in supporting a mid-table club every season. They think itÂ’s boring. And before you dismiss them as fake fans (which they may actually be). Bill Kenwright needs them a lot more than he needs you, Joe. And he and the league know that all too much.

Loser all the way around.

Last season, we shocked teams who played us as they set up for the old Moyes long-ball game. We baffled them. Moyes did the same in 2004 when we went 4-5-1 and caught everyone out for a few months.

Once you get sussed and you cannot change things around, you are dead meat in this League. Old players and shrewd opposition managers are killing us. ItÂ’s now beyond a joke. Liverpool have struggled this season because Ken Dodd signed for Barcelona... whatÂ’s our excuse???

The Europa League curse is one thing but keeping faith in Barry, Howard, Distin, Pienaar, Osman, Hibbert etc is an insult to us all. Naismith is younger but he has to be the most inept talentless footballer to ever pull on a blue shirt... SPL average at best. He gets away with it because, now and then, he slots a decent goal. Awful footballer.

Martinez – well, I am losing faith in him by the day. Although I must say, all we added to the squad this season was Besic and 90-year-old Eto’o, Blue Bill is still smiling... WHY???

EFC is still locked into the most ludicrous kit deal ever. Chang still pay us two bob a week sponsorship money. The worst deal ever for a club that is a regular top 6 team? Goodison Park is now such a shithole, untouched for years, that away fans think they have been transported back to the 1960s... WeÂ’ve still got sausage rolls warming up on the tea urn in the Bullens Road.

We as fans take too much of this shit on the chin and nothing ever changes. Those twats across the park go on marches and get owners removed; we fans cantÂ’ even ship out 40-year-old players... WHY?

ItÂ’s now a crisis and the players who are all to blame as much as El Bob are all starting to give up. We are beaten before we start. MoyesÂ’s teams did this but usually against the big boys. All hands beat us now. If youÂ’re on a bad run, play Everton. I give up, I really do.

However...

Firstly in the 19 years you *claim* to have watched my team, what exactly has your contribution been to change things (you loser :)). Because we havenÂ’t been mid table for much of that, we escaped relegation on the last day (it was 1998, you can Google it now) and I was there contributing my support in my own small way as part of the collective. That day the people you seem to want to slag off were massive, as they were in 1994. Guess what, I was there then too.

Secondly, and continuing point 1, what exactly is the contribution you will make to see out your plan of ousting BK? You canÂ’t really boycott the games if you donÂ’t go in the first place can you? HavenÂ’t really thought that one through have you Chris? Just urging fans to...what exactly on here? Are you a programme from the same guy who wrote the Jimmy Sorheim regurgitative algorithm?

Thirdly, "I see new fans completely mystified that Howard is not nearly as good as they thought and frankly, theyÂ’re not that interested in supporting a mid table club every season" - youÂ’re right, I doff my cap to these knowledgeable historians of EFC and why didnÂ’t I think of that? (thereÂ’s that Irony thingy again)

...

Fifthly (there was a Fourthly but I spent quite a lot of time laughing at the quote from you that I reposted so I moved on - and that was laughing AT you, not WITH you, be in no doubt), as I dismiss your fake fans ("which they might be" FFS!!!! I really couldnÂ’t make this stuff up!!!) Why does BK need them more than me when IÂ’m such a sucker who keeps giving him my money and they donÂ’t? Again, you didnÂ’t think that one through completely did you? There there, that pain in your forehead will stop if you stop trying to work these things out (that is sarcasm by the way. ItÂ’s a bit like irony but generally reserved for twats)

Lastly, IÂ’m a shareholder too. That means I can go along to meetings with other people who probably mostly, no actually I would say probably all know that Howard is not as good as some people thought he might have been when they first saw him in the summer. Cos err, they didnÂ’t just see him for the first time in the summer. Their heads probably donÂ’t hurt trying to work out why either. I can go along to meetings and ask nasty questions now about performance - err mostly because Bill lets me go (but come to think of it he may soon change his mind again).

Where and what exactly is the contribution of you and your "fake fan" chums (honestly, I ask you??!!) on any level whatsoever? Beyond coming on here and spouting shite about proper Evertonians I mean? Why does it matter? Why am I even asking you? Apart from the fact youÂ’ve cheered me up quite a bit laughing after being a bit grumpy on my way home earlier.

Sorry but we don't tolerate any of this dick-waving "I'm a better fan than you" crap, or calling people 'losers', so you've done well earning moderation for that.

And "stat" is apparently short for statim, Latin for "immediately". Not many people know that!

It is worse than the Walker / Smith days – not in terms of the performances, perhaps... but, due to the fact that we have enough 'good' players to expect a lot more than is being served up.

The worst aspect of yesterday was that most in the crowd seemed to accept what was an almost inevitable outcome; when fans who are among the most passionate in the country largely sit and watch in abject apathy, there is something utterly wrong. I'm not blaming the fans for that as I am one of them and it is almost impossible to get behind something that lacks so much.

There are rumours of unrest among the players, and rumours that certain players won't be here come the end of January, but, whether that is true or not. As a supporter for longer than I care to remember, this is a very worrying time for me as the 'team' don't seem to care about what is happening out on the pitch and it is the players who set the tone. I really can't remember another Everton side with so much ability so lacking in belief; we look like 11 individuals who turn up on match day and then go home and await the next fixture.

It is likely that our next victory may have to wait until we play WBA at Goodison in January. That I can predict that with a certain amount of confidence does take me back to the Smith / Walker days.

Oh and Tony Marsh – I seem to recall that with Hilbert & Osman in the team we have not lost, so maybe going back to basics won’t be a bad thing.

We started well today and had a semi decent referee who had a crap day. Get over it and get on with working out how to win with what we have. It's like the players went in to "Oh, pity me" mode.

Onwards and upwards!

The degree of dissatisfaction now is, I think, positively correlated with the level of expectation at the start of last season (couple with some very decent results for part of the season).

I've written off this and next season (as that will be another transition season with a new manager - I'll still buy my season ticket, Chris). Sit back and watch it all unfold. Enjoy the few games we do win. Rejoice at avoiding relegation. And just pray that "ma main man" might just have a damascene conversion.

A happy new year to one and all.

In the last 20 years I have missed 1 home game, and the last 14-15 years about 5 or 6 away games. Do you think I enjoy watching us lose? Do you think I have been paying all that money for nothing? I do it because I love our football club. I’ve come home almost in tears after losing some games. I’ve nearly landed meself in trouble at away games because I want to vent my anger on opposition fans. I’ve spent days in a sulky mood after some defeats. And to say I don’t question those at the top is laughable. If things aren’t going right then I want to see changes.I’m also not happy to lose after 19 years. In fact after every defeat I’m fuming. As are all my mates that I go the match with, along with thousands of others who go to every game, home and away.

So why don’t you just fuck off you twat!! You have got absolutely no right to question peoples integrity as you did in your point #2

I’m guessing you live in USA so go and watch your Mickey mouse MLS or maybe your shit American football instead.

We are again fast approaching the time when "balance" is about to disappear out of the stadium. But despite being a dull champion of that balanced argument I read these recent threads after failures like this and Southampton and find myself really starting to think that this is one of those times when being patient might cost the club it's place in the top flight for the first time in my life.

I genuinely admire the man that is Martinez. I love his basic approach which is to entertain. I love the respect he has for the people who matter at our club....us. I think his family man nature is reflected in his deep understanding of the nature of a community and the various things that make it tick. I found Moyes football in the latter years to be the worst I've ever seen and had to endure because like many here, unlike Mr Kelly, I will turn up regardless because its in my DNA and second only now to family. I thought Martinez looked like the real deal, and I thought his structural approach would see us develop top to bottom in every aspect of what makes a club successful.

What then has happened after season one ? Surely so many voices on the terraces can't be wrong. He seems to have totally lost his way. He's constantly changing shape and tactics. He's started to favour certain players when they are so obviously struggling. I thought he'd be the guy to drop a big name but then I have watched as one of my heroes, Leighton Baines, has put in a season of mostly disapointing performances and Garbutt hasn't been given a chance yet. I've watched the cringeworthy post match interviews as the guy defends the utterley indefensible. Southampton and Stoke are low points but there feels like worse to come.

So Mr Kelly here's something to infuriate you. I'm feeling desperate at the way a season of great promise has collapsed and I'm not sure what the hell is going on. But im simply praying and hoping for better whilst paying my money over and admiring the best away support in the country. It's only a few years since I was one of them and spent thirty years of often gut wrenching away days in support of the club. And there it is as you should have sensed from reading this thread. Yes there are some ironies in the reaction to your post but in truth you have totally, and it seems quite deliberately, misunderstood what it is to be an Evertonian and as Michael says, that's just unforgivable.

I cannot see any other way out of this mess, we have to roll our sleeves up and fight.

And so what of our own situation? Well, we have 21 points in the bag but the next 2 games are vital and we simply must get something away to Newcastle and Hull respectively; however, it's a big ask as the current squad appears to be lacking confidence and spirit!!

I think two more defeats will definitely sound alarm bells and BK will have to make some serious decisions; unfortunately, tika taka football doesn't get you out of relegation fights.

On paper, we have one of the best squads in recent memory; however, something is clearly not right at the club and RM has to be held responsible. I will be very interested to see if the team tomorrow will show the desire and hunger to scrap for every ball because surely the players must be looking at the table and thinking we are in deep shit!

Our form at Newcastle isn't too bad over the last few seasons so fingers crossed... a point tomorrow and a win at Hull might just save RM. Make no mistake, anything less and we will be fighting for our Premier League survival. GSOB! (God save our Blues)

I honestly could not believe how isolated they both were in possession at times yesterday. At least if we played them as wing backs, we would have two strikers on the pitch for them to hit. Because at the minute they haven't even got anyone to play a one-two with, never mind going round the outside on an overlap!

A crisis should be avoided by doing things to energize the squad, but that may not be the case if stubborn Roberto keeps up the narrow 4-2-3-1 with a slow buildup.

A note is Diego Costa couldn't score if he were in the Blues lineup.

We all have opinions and beliefs and this is a great site for airing them but FFS lads lets have some Xmas spirit.

For what its worth I normally lay the blame at BK's door but I am firmly in the camp that says when the whole team are not doing it it lies firmly at the feet of the manager.

The problem with Coleman and Baines IMO is lack of motivation and confidence brought about by poor preseason preparations and poor team selection.

If we had more strength in MF rather than 4 centre forwards there would be better link up play to get the full backs up the pitch and drop in to cover them while they run riot.

We really only need Lukaku or Naismith up front and let the tika taka happen in MF and in the opponents half rather than CB' playing it backwards and forwards to each other till everyone falls asleep.

However like everyone else, I don't agree it is just a case of loyal fans turning up uncomplaining. We do complain but we do also turn up. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. There is discontent right now and that will influence decision-making, like it does at every club. It helped Johnson out the door, for a start.

But at the same time, I do not want to see us descend into the destructive divisiveness I see at Rangers, for example. That can kill a football club and there is plenty of life still in ours.

We're all hurting at the moment. Turning on one another is Kopite behaviour of the highest order. We are all better than that wherever in the world each of us may reside. For better and worse, we get behind the team and stick it out together.

I take what you said about our fans as very personal.

That may be acceptable in the USA (maybe it's not) but it's a big fuck-off, no-no over here pal. I was sat in that ground, balls freezing, with my two boys, and I don't need a knobhead like you labelling me as a mug for doing so.

Please don't ever call us a franchise again either, why don't you start your own mini-league and call the winners World Champions? Works for baseball, I believe.

You can then follow success for the rest of your life and won't have to put up with losing. Welcome to the real world of sport, buddy.

There is a certain if not explicitly stated USA - MLS - soccer - franchise broad brush at work in some posts above and the likes of Mike Gaynes, Jamie Crowley, Tim Greely. Paul Coumb, and many others I have failed to mention are valuable members of this wonderful Everton thing, not to mention Brit-blues-in-exile like our excellent editors who arguably do more good for Everton than anyone in the board room.

Dave Lynch - 193 - what he said is not Â’acceptable in the USAÂ’.

There are interesting questions to ask about the differences between being a supporter on both sides of the Atlantic. Perhaps one of the most obvious is the relative absence or sprinkling of away fans at games - with exceptions, Chicago Cubs, more Â’localÂ’ games and rivalries. But thereÂ’s a time and place for that discussion and this is not it in my opinion.

GO EVERTON! WEÂ’RE AN AWESOME FRANCHISE!
(Have you tried singing Grand Old Team to the tune of Rock and Roll Part 1 and 2 by Gary Glitter?)

I'm sure we all know that's the case, but turn up each season with more hope than expectancy and wishing for a minor miracle! That's the way I feel anyway; we are Everton supporters, it's in our blood, but how good would it be if we were starting a season on equal terms with the other 19 clubs? A pipe-dream, I know... but the Premier League in its present form is a competition for 6 teams.

I see Man Utd are interested in Bale for 𧴰 million, Arsenal are looking to buy Cavani, Chelsea are going to buy Asamoah for 㿄 million as a utility player.... How much will we be spending, do you think?

We are crying out for a classy midfielder who can be a link between the defence and attack; the problem is... he won't come cheap.

Apologies anyway.

I know this style of play doesn’t suit some of them but, at the end of the day, when you have six or seven players in the opposition half, you aren’t thinking about the manager’s instructions. The play should become fluid, and any goals come individual skill, good movement off the ball, and intelligent passes. If Lukaku, Barkley and Mirallas find themselves with space, they need to exploit it, there is no instruction from the manager not to go into that space, FFS!

It’s down to the manger to fix it but, whatever our playing style, this squad should sweat blood for the shirt. They are fucking paid enough.

Don’t get me wrong, Martinez needs to take whatever blame is coming his way, but so do the players, they seem to be getting a free ride from most on here.

I know you, the editors, the other lads mentioned (as well as those you haven't) are either exiled blues or for want of a better description, in it for the good the bad and the ugly.

The other fella wound me up good and proper, so no hard feelings to other USA blues.

Please excuse the diction and phrasing as this is my first real proper day off over the holiday and I'm making up for lost drinking time. NSNO.

When the team is lacking confidence, a positive attitude that is not down to the fans but the manager and coaches. Seeing Coleman and Baines playing way below par is sad as they can do a lot better as we all know and was the big plus of last season.

God only knows what has gone wrong this season; watching them struggle against mediocrity like Stoke has been a new low in a run of games since they did so well in Germany. Newcastle could be a good place to start a recovery.

This season is proving harder to take due to the undoubted ability in the team. I don't accept this bullshit that our squad is average or old. This is a very good squad with an excellent starting XI. The fans go to games expecting to be served a feast so it's not their fault when they get a bag of soggy chips instead.

Although I paid out on Christopher, he is still an Evertonian. I think he made a mistake – but I think we should let it go now – I have.

I won't be at Newcastle – I'm 12,000 miles away – but I hope our great away support get right behind the team as they always do. The club really needs that right now and they can make a difference. Show the team and the rest of the Premier League what this club is made of.

Go mad, fellas – the players will respond.

Up the Blues.

Love your humour mate!

Mark Frere - 203 - however is not a part of that culture. His comment tells you all you need to know about him, sadly.

I also agree that on paper, it's a decent squad and certainly should be better placed than it is right now. However it has undeniably got a lot of older players who are simultaneously close to their use by date and replacing them all at the same time won't be easy with our budget.

Sorry about my post, I was posting when pissed last night. I think it was my attempt at humour in my drunken state... sorry chaps.