Blues can't bridge gulf in class but will take positives from defeat to City

We played ok but that's because City allow you space and give you chances, plus let's be honest they didn't even truly break sweat.

We were as usual architects of our own downfall and it's quickly becoming a very worrying trait this season.

Two 6'-4" centre-halves yet we allow one of the smallest men there to score a header.

Pickford pathetic on that free-kick (showing a real weakness in his game that) and pretty much already this season is back to madcap stupid ways, I'm starting to believe he's more a liability than Tim Howard in his final season under Martinez.

Inability to bury really presentable opportunities when they came, same old story.

It was a strange game, a muted atmosphere at times and it feels like a game that we probably should have won because we walk away feeling Man City gave us so much room to create things but we could take it, at the other end we self destruct and made it easy for them.

The big month for Silva and this team starts next Saturday however, finish the end of October in 15th or lower, then I think he'll be clearing his desk.

Add to that their striking depth, so that Aguero is on the bench, and you have us poles apart.

The Everton team obviously lacks a class striker, but it also lacks some of the energy that is now a prerequisite of the better Premier League teams. Gomes has many assets, but he isn't a great engine. We haven't the energy in midfield to have the luxury of two wide players. Calvert-Lewin isn't a natural central striker or finisher, but he gives his all. Kean perhaps will grow into the striker we need, but I tend to feel that teams like Barcelona and Juventus don't sell players who are top-notch.

With our run of fixtures against better teams coming up, I am not hopeful that we will be near the top half of the table come November. Silva must be fearful for his future.

City's work ethic is outstanding and midfield was where we seemed to lose most ground. I also thought we went too narrow with both Seamus and Lucas, leaving ourselves open to their ability to break quickly and/or make excellent wide long passes to then rapidly stretch our defence.

I'd like to see again the offence that made Michael Oliver blow for the free-kick that lead to their second goal because I didn't notice anything that deserved the decision – not saying either it was or wasn't a foul, just need another look.

Some good stuff from us as well. Liked Iwobi and Delph and thought Calvert-Lewin was much improved, particularly in the air. Richarlison had a good game, too.

At times, I felt that when going forward, we have a bunch of players that don't even know each other and that the movement off the ball was extremely poor especially compared to City.

it would be interesting to see some statistics on crosses from the right vs left in to our penalty area as it appears that we are so much weaker defending crosses from our left side than our right. Again – just seems that way but I might be wrong.

Overall, disappointed with the result but saw some positives. However, Marco Silva, we need to get back to winning ways – quickly!

Pickford I thought was at fault on the own goal last week. He's definitely at fault for the free-kick – and I think he has to be doing better on the first. If the ball is crossed into the 6-yard box 2 yards out, you'd expect your keeper to be near it. Harsh, may be, but the best keepers don't cough up goals like those three.

Other teams will do exactly the same against Man City this season. They will raise their game, have a go but ultimately lose and do so comfortably. So what?

Raising your game a bit against the Champions is expected as is a reaction after a defeat to a newly promoted team. The mediocrity that has gripped this club knows no bounds.

De Bruyne is a world-class player, just having energetic players in midfield like Davies with no real creative or goalscoring skills won't solve our problems — yesterday's game proved that he did nothing when he came on. Replace Sigurdsson by all means, he's not getting any younger but let's get it right, there's no-one at the club capable of doing the job at the moment, we'd need to buy big.

The main reason we are struggling is our failure in front of goal, Calvert-Lewin was unlucky not to score again, but we need more players who carry a goal threat and our season depends on Richarlison, Kean, Iwobi and Sigurdsson finding the net. I'm sure they will at some stage or we and Silva are in big trouble.

I did take one major negative from the game and that was the performance of our Number 1, the second goal should have been prevented and he nearly caused a fourth late on.

If by late November we have 15 points from 15 games then I think at that stage a change will be justified.

And positives? We lost, at home... what, we lost well? Nicely? No wonder the team seems to lack ambition if the fans don't have any!! We are 15th, possibly 16th tonight and some are calling for "7/8 matches" to see where we stand.

I can see it clearly now and can't believe that the club be ready to play with relegation just to make an effort to save Silva's reputation.

Silva doesn't appear to be able to motivate, instill belief, or provide tactics that work. Same could be said for the last few managers so maybe time to stop wasting money on second-tier hopefuls and go recruit a proven winner.

In truth, City are miles ahead of us. We have some talented players but they do not appear to have the same organisation, desire, and strength (physical and mental) as the City players. These are the things which the coach can change, or else there is no point in having one. Our coach is not doing so.

Amongst the good home showings towards the end of last season, there remained some ominously poor away displays, the game at Fulham being still seared in my memory. Our pre-season was dreadful, and I would venture that only our performance against Wolves could be deemed “good” so far. We are a long way from where we supporters aspire to be.

I understand those who say “we can't just keep changing managers” – I have some sympathy with that view, and I don't exactly relish the whole rigmarole around what that would entail. But equally, if the current incumbent is proving incapable of doing a competent job, he cannot remain.

It is the manager's responsibility to get the best out of his squad and drop under-performing players who think their commitment need only be limited to under a dozen 'showcase' games a season.

I'm sick of us getting just the occasional Jim Bowen type display that says "Here's what you could have won or achieved if we could be arsed".

No idea on the fundamentals of the game
Tactically stupid
No motivational skills
Out of his depth
Poor man management
Won't or can't see the obvious
No common sense
Clueless

Maybe he does know how to straighten his tie, but that's it.

I'm one for keeping Silva as things stand and I did see some good things yesterday, but I agree that a few more tame away defeats, in particular, would put him under enormous pressure and could lead to his going.

Look at the defensive tactics for instance. The lack of urgency in a game against a team like Man City to get the ball out of the danger zone. How many times did players faff about with the ball within 20 to 25 yards of our goal yesterday? We need to be more direct from the back and learn to long pass it out and away from losing possession within sight of goal.

Team selection is another area where Silva falls down. Some of his choices yesterday were bewildering including Walcott (whom I wish a speedy recovery to) and you have to wonder what he sees that the rest of don't in some of those shirkers in the Royal Blue jerseys.

And, as well as a lack of threat up front there is a general dearth of steel, grit, bite in the side. No one is bollocking the others around them to put a shift in. I know he has only arrived but Fabian Delph does put in a shift and is prepared to make his feelings known. Is he the future captain this season?

Basically, the side looks either wimpish or disinterested. That is something you could not accuse the Moyes era sides of!

So, in summary, I think Moshiri etc must start looking now for an alternative because, if we are plunged into a relegation scrap I have little confidence, no faith in Silva digging us out of the swamp. The fan base need to let the club know that is how the vast majority of us feel because, when I am at Goodison or at away matches (Brighton, here I come!), I have yet to meet one supporter who thinks Silva is the answer.

We raised our game and competed for periods but again we let ourselves down with inability to clear our lines, slowness on the ball, and an inability to play in the final third against a makeshift defence.

I already said before the game that the acid test would be Burnley. I can forgive the lads losing to City but can this team raise their game against the ordinary sides. Thus far, they have not.

I think a good result at Turf Moor will be a starting point for better things but, considering the benign set of fixtures we have had, our points haul is pathetic and the coach should be under pressure.

Tougher fixtures to come and this group needs to step up to the mark or the manager should hold his hands up and go.

I think after this game, he may think differently. At present, we are struggling to win games, when the opposition has set pieces we struggle to defend, there's not enough hunger and passion on the pitch.

Instead of heading in the direction of challenging for a place in Europe, we currently are heading in the wrong direction towards the relegation zone. Its very worrying to see.

Marco Silva clearly is not the right manager to take Everton forward and get us into Europe and win trophies. Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman and now Marco Silva offer too much mis-management. How much longer do we have to put up with this? We need the right manager who is competent and who can take us forward and finally win us trophies.

The problem, of course, at this stage of the season, is who could we bring in? If this poor form continues, then surely common sense will prevail and we will sack Marco Silva.

City were 2-1 up, Pep, was on his feet organising, giving instructions whilst Silva sat down, looked lost, and didn't have a clue how to rearrange our team. If we don't sack him now, we will be in the relegation zone at Christmas.

Who in their right mind would come in then? Mourinho is available, he might not come but it would show our intent. Those who say they don't like him want to remember that most fans didn't like Ferguson, but he won 13 league titles.

Unless we act now we will be treated as a Small Time Club with no ambition. We face going into a 𧼐M stadium being a Championship team.

They had a makeshift defence, with one recognised centre-back. I felt we should have been at them more but we couldn't summon enough pressure on them.

Aguero, David Silva, Bernardo Silva all rested as starters for this game says it all about the quality of class difference. They are just too hot for our lads to handle. Man City simply have more class than us and a deeper squad.

Conversely, we've got more class than Crystal Palace, Aston Villa, Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd and Burnley.

Without any doubt, Everton should be doing a ''Man City'' on that lot, no excuses.

The manager is incapable of taking us to the level the club ought to be at and his position must be reviewed as soon as possible. John Carey was sacked with the club in 5th place in the league playing glorious football but the then chairman recognised he was not a winner as a manager. Silva is not producing a team or quality football anything like the team Carey assembled but I think most of us can see he too will never be a winner. He is in above his head and needs to be replaced.

Remember (and this is not all aimed at Silva) we are a top-six spending club producing bottom-six level performances – hardly the way forward.

I seriously doubt Marco Silva has the personality, character or know-how to transform us from where we are to where we aspire to be. He is not a transformational manager – we need a Ferguson or a latter-day Catterick if possible – someone steeped in the history of the club or someone who will make that history themselves as those two did.

What on earth will move the Everton board to be a progressive and enlightened unit capable of getting rid of the "second-best" mentality that has pervaded all levels for decades, I wonder?

It was telling that Man City put three of their best players on the bench; they felt confident they would beat us without them.

We could have added at least a couple of goals to our tally, and Pickford could have done better to keep their score down but, in truth, City missed some decent chances and at least two sitters.

Man City will lose more games this season with their poor defence but we've got more than enough problems of our own without dwelling on City's.

We might improve as the season moves on but there are glaring problems in all departments of the team which, IMO, will only be solved in the transfer market. Most of us know where the problems are; I think Marcel Brands knows as well and brings players in to solve some of them.

I still have more negative feelings about the manager than positive ones and he doesn't appear to help himself regarding team selections, substitutions, and – most of all – tactics.

We played well – so what, we got beat.

We worked really hard – big deal, that's your job.

We created chances – you didn't take enough of them.

They are the Champions – so what about Bournemouth, Villa and Sheffield Utd?

Both Silva and Boa Morte have no tactical awareness and it would appear none of the players have a football brain. Having watched Everton since the Second Division days, it's a crying shame that top six is our aim and is thought of as success... maybe fourth from bottom would be even more of a successful season?

The team will never progress with the formation adopted by Silva. Two holding midfielders, three pedestrian players providing no width behind an isolated lone forward. If you rely on full-backs for width, like we do, then you will be battered on the break. We need ANOTHER complete rebuild.

The Coach needs to go and so do 90% of the squad. We won't move forward if we continually sign bench players from other clubs: Iwobi, Delph, Digne, Gomes, Schneiderlin, Kean, Walcott, Mina.

Harsh but true that Man City looked at an away game at Goodison as so easy they could rest both Silvas, Aguero and use just one recognised central defender. Since Moshiri arrived, there isn't one player signed who would be looked on as a successful, excellent, exciting signing.

Pre-match, I thought we might nick a point if we got the rub of the green, 3-1 flattered them I think.

As ever, it's small margins, Calvert-Lewin could have scored at least one more, Mina had a good heading chance but of course City also had chances they didn't put away.

Silva isn't anything special as a manager but the quality of our players is our main problem; let's be honest, if they were good enough they would be playing for the current top teams. They gave it a go yesterday but class told in the end.

Our managers for the last god knows how long, have been trying to win something with good but not quite good enough players. Until we can overcome that handicap, I fear we are stuck as nearly men.

Since when can we ignore three results? It seems in a desperate need to validate Silva, and not holding the team accountable, we let it drift.

A lot of positives from yesterday? Is that because performances have been so poor to date that yesterday seems like an improvement? These players couldn't get themselves in a mental space to compete with Villa, Bournemouth & Sheffield United. Yet could show energy and commitment against the Champions?! Scandalous.

Silva has been allowed so much rope because of what went before. Had we not had Koeman, Allardyce and Martinez, the clamour for his dismissal would be as loud as our siren.

He should be judged and sacked based on his results: he has lost 18 league games I believe, tipping beyond the games he's won, 17.

He's had 2 summer windows, and changed much of the team. His tactics have not evolved since he walked through the door.

The longer we persist with Silva, the more my eye rounds on Brands. We have a structure which enables him to change the manager, footballing matters are his key responsibility to the board he sits on. His inaction to not outwardly put pressure on Silva is now reflecting more on him, not Silva.

Time to act during the international break, Marcel.

I can't remember a top team having a back four as poor as this current City team. Injuries have ravaged them. That's why I can't entirely agree with Lyndon. I don't take many positives from this because I believe they will give up chances to anybody having a go at them. We had a go, but we didn't play particularly well.

That said, to suggest Man City didn't break sweat is annoyingly stupid. Due to their defensive frailties, they spent long periods blowing out of their arses and fighting like fuck to stay in the hunt.

Dave A @25 points out that City rested three attacking players but, for me, that gave us no advantage; the people who came in were better than we have and were superb.

We've got big problems at this club. Mahrez made a complete mockery of daft claims about Digne. Our center-backs are simply shocking, have been all season. Schneiderlin offers nothing (not sure what Steve F is seeing), he is kitten weak.

Our goalie worries me too (more than a hint of Gazza going on there). Iwobi is squandered money (Arsenal deffo saw us coming) and Sigurdsson continues to flatter to deceive. There is no point in looking to the bench – you will only see more of the same.

I'm not ready to give up on Silva yet. I don't want to rip it up and start again... again, so I desperately want him to succeed, but he is making it increasingly hard to make a case for him.

Silva still has the gig and therefore the opportunity to turn things around. Moshiri will be desperate for "his man" to do just that. He will publicly support him.. but I bet that hasn't stopped Rhino taking his suit round to the dry cleaners.

City unfortunately will come second this season, Everton can do without a relegation scrap the year Liverpool win the title. But I don't want Unsworth drafted in either, there is nothing to suggest he is the answer, not even a Championship club has approached him.

My point is that in the context of the awful form we were in prior to the Sheff Wed cup tie, there were positive aspects of this match. We could have scored at least twice, we weren't mullered on our own turf like we were by Spurs last season, for example, and there were some decent (not spectacular, but decent) individual performances. There was at least a response there from the players.

My misgivings and doubts about Marco Silva remain. I'm not convinced he can adapt enough to make us a successful team and his team selections baffle and frustrate me. And if I were a betting man I'd say he's going to struggle to get the 10 or so points I would say should be the minimum return from the next 4 league games.

But that doesn't mean that he and his players can't take some positives from yesterday against a side that is light years ahead of us as they try and work their way out of this dodgy patch of form.

Perhaps the Arteta money was being invested to wait on his return? Alas, Everton's next manager always seems to be their best manager and that just makes me sad.

Regarding City's first goal, the first-time ball from de Bruyne was top class, and the low header from it was such that the height of Keane and Mina seemed irrelevant. Yet some on this thread are asking how come a short guy can score a header against us when we have two big centre-halves.

Overall, it was disappointing to lose, as it always is. But we were not taken apart in the way that many on here thought we would be before the game. We've lost Gana and Zouma, and have had injuries, which have clearly disrupted us. We played better yesterday, but are still trying to gel properly. When we aren't gelling, individual players look worse. When we gel, the same players look better.

City are a class apart from everyone else. It's not an excuse for losing, but it has to be borne in mind when discussing the loss. We need to gel more, we need some luck with injuries, and we also need more luck with the run of the ball, the kind of luck our neighbours seem to get. Things can turn on a sixpence and, when they do, the general tone on here will be a lot different.

No, Tom Davies is not a comparative player to De Bruyne, I don't think I suggested that, but he may do than Schneiderlin. However, I just think the set-up of the team is completely wrong. It basically surrenders midfield.

Everton are not a team in transition, they are essentially a collection of wingers and others. Given the personnel recruited by the last four managers, I think it would be very hard to produce an eleven that could seriously challenge any of the better teams. To call them a team is flattering.

Of course you want to work on your own team, but not to the point of forgetting about the opposition.

We let City have the ball, they were always going to dominate possession anyway, but why this insistence on constantly playing out from the back at all costs, like we are on the training ground, is what I'd like to ask our manager?

Mina and the very poor Keane, waiting on the six yard box for Pickford to play it to them was demoralising because it was exactly the game that City would have wanted us to play.

Why not congest the pitch in their half, kick it long and get people closer to Lewin, to contest the second balls, instead of constantly trying to play pretty football, against the prettiest team around?

We never tried to mix it up, even though are opponents had a bit of a mixed up defence, and for this I have to blame the coach, who drilled his team all wrong imo, when you take even a little look at the opposition.

I find I'm thinking along the same lines as yourself when it comes to mixing our approach to games. I'm not advocating kick and rush, there is a distinct difference between that and a more direct style of play.

The change to the law regarding goalkicks is (in my opinion) a recipe for disaster, we have already seen a couple of occasions where Pickford has passed the ball to a player who was not ready to receive it.

Regarding goalkicks, I can't understand why Everton move toward the touchline when these are awarded, because the ball quite often drifts out of play. I believe in getting two men operating down the middle in these situations, after all the pitch is 70 yards wide, and the risk of conceding a throw-in minimised.

In admiring what City do well, it's good to reflect on what they do that we don't.

I think someone already pointed out in posts to an earlier thread that we always seem to attack down the flanks, relying on overlapping full-backs, and never seem to attack through the middle. I think that was borne out in spades yesterday. I have to think that the problem is our midfield, who tend to channel the ball across the field rather than looking for through balls. That's in sharp contrast to City – you never know where their next attack will come from. Our reliance on Shamus – who put in a shift yesterday – also left lots of space for Sterling to move into dangerous positions.

A second observation is their positioning off the ball as opposed to ours. They always seem to have players in space – once they've offloaded the ball they are moving ready to get it back in neat triangles. They looked almost telepathic – we were often (not always, mind) pedestrian. And their "out ball" would be a forward pass, not a sideways one. As a result, their players often received the ball as they were already facing and going forward, and we were back-peddling. Too often our players received it sideways, and sometimes even turned back even though there was space to move in to.

There's something about speed as well. It was frightening how quickly they can move the ball forward and with purpose. That's a function of agility and sheer physical speed, but just as importantly about speed of thought and preparedness to drive forward and take on defenders. In contrast, we often looked ponderous and predictable. That's a pity since we do have some players with great pace. I've noticed this not just against sides like City but even when we play lesser sides – we move the ball forward too slowly, giving opposing teams the chance to regroup.

If there's one thing we lack it's a midfield that plays a different game – physically fast and strong, and looking to open up the opposition by driving forward. That sort of player also creates space and opportunities for others. I hope that Gbamin might provide some of that when he's fit again – but I think we need one or two others. The current combo(s) of Delph, Schneiderlin and Davies don't provide this (Gomes does, when he's in the mood).

Until then, I'm reconciled to watching and suffering agonies – we can play some good stuff at times, but then let ourselves down with defensive mistakes. And once we're behind, too often we stay behind.

sometimes a poster hits the nail on the head, you have done that when describing our midfield.

''a collection of wingers and others''

it surrenders the midfield battle to the opposition, in our situation battles need to be won to win matches.

With 2 wingers and Sigurdsson in the midfield, we are constantly out battled and constantly under pressure in the midfield areas.

If you don't believe me ask Fabian Delph, its pissing that lad off something rotten.

Additionally Schneiderlin cannot be a made a scapegoat for a dysfunctional ansd ineffective midfield formation.

If we are playing with 2 wide men and DCL, Sigurdsson cannot start.

The sooner Marco Silva sees this the better, we may start winning games again.

Not so. There WERE positives to take from yesterday. And you don't have to invent them or look very hard to see them.

Am I happy at 7 points from 7 games, 4 losses already from the benevolent fixture list we were dealt? Hell, no!

Am I convinced that Silva is THE man to turn this around? No!

Should we be seeing a greater return from the 100s of millions spent on the squad since Moshiri arrived? Absolutely!

Do I weary of the post-post-match interviews trotted out by the manager and players alike the week following a defeat, with promises of 'putting it right'? Damn right I do!

Like Paul Tran @ 26, I like Sheffield United's Chris Wilder's no-nonsense realism as a means to toughen up one and all at Everton. No molly-coddling or stroking the egos of players or hoodwinking the supporters. To Paul's references I will add this comment he made about his keeper Dean Henderson who made a right gaffe to gift t'other lot the win:

"If he wants to be a professional footballer, these things are going to happen. But if he wants to play for the top teams, he wants to play for England, then he needs to do better, he needs to concentrate more. It's a disappointing day for him. I am not going to put my arms around him, simply he needs to do better."

'ave it!' as a popular TV ad said a few years back.

We need someone at Everton to step up and deliver the same message across the board.

It's because he has duffers around him he underachieves. Messi would underachieve in our midfield.

We don't play with wingers. Their best positions may be wingers but they play in a narrow three and we rely on overlapping full backs for width.

We need to go to a solid 4-4-2 which can be 4-2-4 when we have the ball.

Pickford
Coleman Keane Holgate Digne
Richarlison Delph Davies Bernard
Tosun Kean

That leads me to again question what on earth is/isn't going on at Finch Farm this season and several before it, under managers Moyes, Martinez, Koeman. Allardyce and Silva – all under Kenwright of course, the latest the more so than ever according to reports? Are these blokes the entire problem or is the Finch Farm core staff responsible?

As a 10-year-old lad, I was coached by a former England amateur international player who drilled it into us that football was ALL about control, pass AND move, offering the player in possession a choice of at least two forward running players to pass to. It was simple to understand, a bit harder to do (but endless practice helped massively), but when it worked it was exhilarating to be part of. Exhilarated, we all worked even harder. We won tournaments.

Not since the ‘80s have I seen any Everton team play a season of exhilarating football and to me that is unforgivably deplorable. Until huge change occurs at Finch Farm, we'll stay where we are, like a pissed-up hamster on a wheel, the only question being when will we fall off?

We're like the England team of old used to be – always mediocre when we play them so-called lower- or mid-table teams, then we give the big guns a run for their money. We're rarely battered, but we rarely batter anyone = we play up to the standard in front of us = we'll always be a mediocre outfit in every way.

Is anyone else sick to death of it all? Sick of supporting an average team that always appears to be happy just to be there? We're like a kid who's won a competition – just pleased to be able to take part. Fucking Everton, eh.

We're going to have yet another season of finishing somwhere mid table, and we'll win absolutely nothing, Again. It's the same year on year, the managers change, the players change, the results don't change.

Whatever your viewpoint, I've close to had enough of even bothering anymore. I used to hate the Champoins League and all it stood for, now I watch it just so I can attempt to enjoy the game again. Everton have beaten the love out of me.

We will not be relegated; Moshiri will act, hopefully quickly enough. But, when you appoint a coach with relegation form, you are appointing a damaged coach.

Martinez was the worst appointment we ever made, he relegated a Wigan team through stubbornness and arrogance and deserted like a rat. Kenwright observed that, and decided he was the man for us.

Then we have Silva, relegated with Hull and sacked by Watford. Yep, he's the man for us. Truly awful governance by the custodians of our club.

Unfortunately there is not one fucking thing we can do. We are a mediocre club, badly run and poorly coached.

As I say, it's baffling. I'm still hopeful that Silva will eventually do something about all this, and we've seen flashes of it with him, though I realise that's now a minority view.

Of course, they fell short up front and ended up losing to a freak goal. But it got me wondering about how our 'better' players look disorganised and confused, how slow our play is, and how we often appear like strangers thrown together.

It also got me wondering about the gap between a well-organised team that wins slightly more than it loses and one that hits the top six and beyond. Could a manager like Dyche or Wilder bridge the gap with a better squad, or is their style better suited to hard-working journeyman players?

Do we gamble with such a manager? Do we go for another 'up-and-coming' non-UK manager? Or do we manage to entice a 'big name' with some authority and gravitas to go with his coaching skills?

Either way, I can see us experiencing one of these options any time soon.

I'd like to bring up a couple of points that haven't been mentioned previously, maybe because nobody else picked up on them or maybe because I'm delusional and they didn't really happen.

First, I thought Iwobi was great (squandered money, Darren? Really?) until he got tired around minute 60. He made the play in the box that produced the goal -- forcing through two defenders -- after having started the original passing move out of the back. And the long ball to Siggy was gorgeous. But I can belatedly see why Silva started Theo instead. I think he wanted Theo as a chaser to pressure the ball with his pace, which Iwobi can't do. I don't necessarily agree, but I can see his reasoning now. (Nonetheless, I'd like to see Iwobi start every game.)

Second, Digne made two huge errors on the first goal, not just one. After Mahrez treated him like a traffic cone and Delph came over to cover, Digne should have immediately angled back to cover Delph's man, de Bruyne. He didn't. He kept chasing Mahrez instead. So when Mahrez pulled the ball back, the greatest long passer in the world was completely alone and unpressured to deliver a perfect cross that gave the defenders and keeper no chance. Digne is the only one to blame for that one. And it wasn't his only error. You're not gonna beat the champions if your best player has a stinker, and Digne did.

Third, in the "blame game" over the gamewinner (and I'm sorry, but the idea that the keeper should have stopped a 19-yard shot from a top-class ball striker around a screening defender into the side netting is just silly), Mina has largely escaped scrutiny. The fact is he made an inexperienced mistake by going down and reaching out to foul de Bruyne instead of keeping his feet. Apart from that error and his early horror clearance Mina had a good game, but that was costly.

Finally, I trust this game has finally put to bed the recurrent crapola here about how the injury has slowed Coleman. He was brilliantly quick on the dribble yesterday, leaving opponents in his wake time after time. No, he still can't hit the North Sea with a cross, but he's every bit the player he was before, and that was a captain's performance if I've ever seen one.

Pickford should have saved that free kick all day long. When defending a direct free kick, the wall covers one side of the goal, the keeper covers the other. Which side did it go in? The keeper's side. Watch it again.

Walcott gets picked because he tracks back & works hard. I'm getting the impression Silva is the kind of coach who wrestles with a hundred options of negating the other team, rather than picking players who can damage the opposition.

And for all that, we keep conceding more goals than we score.

Which brings me to my main point. City are as good as they are because of their work rate all over the pitch. Their movement in forward areas is immense. They also have been given the confidence to pass the ball quickly forward to those who have found space.

There may be a skill gap between City and us. But the gap in dynamic, confident and intensive play is bigger.

And you're still absolving Mina of the foolish foul?

No. Not Pickford's fault at all.

We were promised attacking, high-pressing football, but this guy only does it in half-measures. I think it affects the players confidence. I would accept losing games if it looked like we were building a ferocious attacking side, using not just one or two young players but several. We need a Bielsa to turn our club around, because as it stands, this guy will be gone by November with Rhino back in charge, as we fiddle about trying to find a new gaffer for three months.

There's a gap between what they say they want and what we see on the pitch. Of course, the players have a responsibility to do this. I can't help thinking that we keep bringing in managers who can't get their message across effectively and consistently. I don't think it's an English-speaking issue, it's more a clarity issue.

I would have that at top of my list for the next man - this is a recurring recruitment fault of ours.

Then after that I came to the conclusion he wasn't up for the fight, lot of bluff, with him running enthusiastically towards City players with the ball but not doing any actual tackling, even for the Everton's goal he goes towards the two City players in front of him but it looks to me a bit half heartedly and the ball could have come from him but more likely off the City defenders.

I watched him closely after that, he didn't have a good game, not getting involved physically which surprised me because I'd had him down as a decent signing.

Now it's possible he was suffering from the bug which kept Bernard out of the game, and nearly kept Digne out, according to another fan on ToffeeWeb, if so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'll be keeping my eye on him closely in future games.

Get a coach who advocates using the ball quickly, knows how to set up sessions accordingly to achieve this, and get these lads fit so they can play dynamically. That's it, simple.

I bet the training at present is boring unopposed rubbish so it looks great on the coaching staff. Unopposed practices are my absolute bugbear and anyone condoning or setting them up are just coaches who can't hold their nerve and are conceited.

The training has to be 100 mph and game-related, with coaches who demand and expect precision and pace. There will be lots of errors during these sessions of course, but good coaches quickly identify who does what wrong and coach the errors out of them, or get rid of them.

Players perform for a coach when they see what's being coached works. That's why I am certain the training is garbage at Finch Farm.

Anybody know anyone at Finch Farm who can indicate what they do during the week?

Dave (#64) makes a good point. Man City & Liverpool are the hardest working teams in the Premier League.

I'm afraid anyone expecting Iwobi to be anything more than a 1 in 5 player, ie, looks very good for a game then disappears for 4 or 5 games is going to be very disappointed,

I think our summer window was very poor and Siva and Brands have to shoulder the blame. The two key areas we needed to improve from last season was central defence and centre-forward.

Even if we had secured Zouma I think we still needed another defender as well. Instead, we got no one and are left with Mina and Keane whose obvious weaknesses are exploded every week.

Kean may long term be a top class striker but he's not ready yet. Calvert-Lewin is a trier and works hard but is not good enough for a team aiming to break into the top 6.

The fact that another window passed and we failed to bring in an experienced striker smacks of incompetence considering the money we have spent.

Allan #69
Exactly right, these are the type of sessions Bielsa is all about, get him in.

Paul, you said before, will millionaire, senior pro's react well to these long, hard sessions? That's the question isn't it? But, that's why I advocate using youth, and building from there.

At some point we've got to get behind the players and manager. The atmosphere at Goodison was horrible last season until the derby. This was a knock in effect of previous regimes which had failed and were replaced. It was horrible for most of Allardyce's reign, Koeman's too and the end of Martinez' days also. We appeared to have ended that cycle towards the end of last season. The fans were back on board, everyone pulling in the same direction - players, fans, management.

Do we really need the hassle and aggravation of changing manager again? I can't believe it is even up for discussion. We put up a good display against City and there were some positive signs. Yet on here that's not reflected. We are only 7 league games in and the team is still gelling. We've had good results and draws in the Carabao cup, it's really not as bleak as some are saying. Yes, we've had some crap results, but it's early days.

The last thing we need now is to go back to the start again with new managers and new players just as the squad is beginning to take shape a bit. We are a top striker away from being a good team, providing we can get the best out of our attacking midfielders, which admittedly is not the case currently.

When the players and manager don't produce, they deserve all they get. But this wasn't the case on Saturday. We matched one of the best teams on the planet for a good 70 minutes and were unlucky to not take the lead in the second half. It's not a time to be considering changing manager.

We are a massive club and people's attitudes have got to change if we are to be successful. Never accept a defeat no matter who we play. Evertonians over the years have never accepted that.

Pickford should be dropped, Michael Keane, should be dropped... I could go on. However, who is there out there to replace Silva?

Eddie Howe has defensive issues that he cannot resolve – so no change there.

Mourinho wouldn't give us the time of day (wants the Real Madrid job).

We have been poor and have only played Man City out of the top 6, so the run up to the end of December doesn't fill me with confidence. We have no confidence away from home, we lack creativity, to get chances for one attacker.

If Silva does go, I hope they have someone lined up, because confidence is at a low now and will be difficult to get back.

Burnley is a must win game.

However, while I agree that Coleman was terrific and he gave everything, he has slowed down since that injury but he tried to run the ball out of defence on several occasions and got dispossessed a couple of times.

This was though, the best game he has had since his return. He even left Sterling behind at one point (but slowed and let him catch-up!).

Iwobi was, for me brilliant and I would play him every week. I love his directness.

It is the combination of little errors all over the park that cost us and that is the difference between top players and good ones.

Burnley will be a different kettle of fish.

I'm not saying sack him today, but we all know what's coming, and I just hope Marcel is putting in the work right now to deal with the crisis we are going to be in by the end of October.

If he finishes 9th or below I think he will be replaced.

If we slip into the relegation zone, things will become a bit more dynamic I think. He will lose a lot of support from the fans and one or two buttocks in the boardroom will begin to clench.

This Burnley away match before the 2 week international break is crucial to Silva. Lose that and home game against West Ham the following Saturday will be do or die.

I thought we played well enough against Man City to go into the next 2 games with some confidence. We have better players than Burnley and West Ham. 6 points from them two would be a tonic.

So Marco you have now till the end of December to save your job, be bold and start play with more freedom than we do at present with 2 defensive midfield players. One further point who sanctioned the selling of Gueye and why didnt we buy a top striker in the summer.

I thought City were stretched when we got the ball into the final third. As ever our problem is getting there early enough with sufficient players in support of the front men. When City broke from deep positions they were able within a few seconds to get four or five men forward in attack. They could do that because they have pace as well as passing ability in midfield areas.

Our biggest problem is we have insufficient pace in midfield: insufficient to get forward quickly and insufficient to get back quickly when we lose possession. There were several examples of Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison gaining possession or competing for a long ball but nobody in a blue shirt within thirty yards to receive a pass or compete for the second ball.

Silva's biggest issue is the blend in midfield. There do not appear to be any immediate solutions within the personnel currently available to him. Gbamin may help but is several weeks away from fitness. In the meantime Silva will just have to make the best of what he has got and eke out a few positive results to lift us up the table.

I see no point in changing managers at this stage. There is no evidence the players are not doing their best. The current situation is of concern but nowhere near as bad as the one we faced two years ago when we were an utter shambles.

Man City did not set up shop, so Everton had more space and Sigurdsson playing deeper meant he was on the ball more. The three goals showed the weaknesses in our defence and goalkeeper.

Defensively, our two central defenders are poor at defending on the turn and when the ball comes in from an angle. The defence is poor at cheating its lines and poor distribution out of defence contributed to sustained pressure on it. The goal from the free-kick was ridiculous.

The overall fitness and training of the team is questionable and passing in the final third is still not good enough. The main difference from last season at this stage is we are not getting Richarlison's goals.

A good article on the game, Lyndon, and conclusion, but there are still the same unsolved old recurring themes. After a better performance against Man City than Sheffield Utd, I wonder what the motivation will be against Burnley, coming up to the dreaded international break?

“Who in there right mind would come in”

I don't know either but, if I was Farhad Moshiri, I would certainly be asking Arsene Wenger if he would like a 3-year contract.

He is a footballing encyclopaedia, available and raring to go. Nil satis Nisi optimum.

I agree to an extent that you have to give things time, but look how quickly Rodgers has got Leicester playing good quality football. It can be done.

It's one step forward and two steps back with Everton.

Surely a manager can't come in and get a team organised and playing creative football and look like a proper team straight away.

What about the transition period?

What about losing their star defender to a bigger rival?

No, I'm not having it. We have been taught in no uncertain terms here at Everton that a transition period is non-negotiable.

Poor Leicester, they will be sorry when it kicks in.

That and our best midfielder is out and the previous best midfielder has been sold.

We are an average side and will end up midtable, as always

I can't believe, after all the money spent, we're worse off than under Moyes?

Before someone has a good go at me for mentioning his name, I don't want him back!

Nobody ever remembers the also-rans, they remember the teams that got relegated and the winners, but nothing else. We've slumped to the middle of mediocre crowd, not the best of them or even the worst!

Just mediocre by mediocre standards!

Times have changed mate. Back when Moyes was in charge there wasn't the money around that there is now. The general quality of teams is higher.
No doubt he made some excellent signings, especially given the spend.

We don't spend on top players, we spend on good players. Until we can attract top players, by being willing to spend to get them, it's always likely to be a struggle.

Now, spending on top players does not guarantee success. But it is clear that spending on top players is a necessary (if not sufficient) condition for sustained success.

We can change manager if we like, and we might get some improvement from it, but we're unlikely to get to the top with it unless we attract top players, which includes keeping top players in their prime, rather than being a consistent feeder club for the top clubs.

We spend like a 'midtable to near the top' club. If we want to really get to the top (and not simply emulate mediocrity like Spurs or Leicester for god sake - Leicester, the mind boggles!), we need to spend big or get used to continued ordinariness.

Sadly big price players will at some point mean big price season tickets, the prices will automatically rise when (if?) the new stadium opens and then add onto that the price of these players.

At some point Mr Moshiri will ask us to pay the bill. I don't know that many red scousers who actually go the game anymore, could we go the same way?