Dowell makes Wigan switch

This doesn't make sense to me. Who made the call?

Derby have just had Rooney join them in a player coach capacity. He'd bring value to their players and especially a young Blue so why not keep him there as Rooney will know him from his short spell back with us.

Ha. Come on Andy. The first thing Rooney probably did when he got there was tell Derby to get rid.

He does know him. And if Rooney rated him in any way, whatsoever, even the slightest bit, he'd not be pulling on a Wigan Substitite tracksuit next week.

Old Sheedy himself.

Another player that looks destined for a lower echelon career.

From all reports I've read and heard he just doesn't possess the work ethic to make it at the highest level.

I can never understand players that aren't willing to bust a gut.

A quick glance at all the best players over the years (Messi, Ronaldo, Gerrard to name a few) or the best teams, Peps Barcelona, the earned the right to showcase ability by working so damn hard.

Desperately needs some game time. He's barely managed 1000 minutes over the last season and half. Not good for his development.

Andrew, gotta assume it was Derby making the call. Maybe even Rooney himself pulled the plug because he does know him.

Dowell has flat-out failed there. After starting the first six games of the season, he was subbed out of a dismal performance at Brentford, and since then has appeared in only 4 games out of 20. And since the first week, Derby hasn't won a single game the kid has played in.

His career is spiraling down the drain. Maybe Paul Cook is the manager to save it. He's pretty damn good.

Otherwise, Dowell is headed for a life of Stockport County and Accrington Stanley.

Read this after reading that Jack Rodwell had joined Sheffield United on a contract to the end of the season. Similar circumstances really in that both supposedly had a great future but then I thought of the hard work necessary to really make the most of natural talent and potential and it brought to mind that famous phrase about Jack - “too much Birkdale not enough Kirkdale.” Happy New Year everyone.

Reading reviews of Wigan games, Robinson and Williams seem to have been consistently good, albeit in a struggling championship team. Williams has had particularly good reviews. Makes you wonder whether we could have used him this year with our underperforming and generally injured midfield. Still think it's criminal how we let him go for around A million whereas Liverpool can sell reserves for up to £20million.

Hopefully playing alongside these two again, and with Joe Royle involved, it will help Dowell kick on. This really must be his last chance though.

I watched the Wigan-Blackburn game on ESPN+. Wigan were the better team on the night and Robinson was their best player. Joe Williams came on as a sub in the second half and was OK, nothing special.
Dowell is a more intelligent Ross Barkley. Good on the ball, one touch passing and a sweet left foot but he does little out of possession.

John Lundstram is " the one who got away"

Pretty sure it would have been Everton who recalled him, due to lack of game time.

I'm afraid Dowell, is like so many Everton starlets who excel to U23 level then burn out. Kieran has always had natural talent but has never been consistent or put himself about.

@8 Ed

Ross and Dowell are lightyears apart I'm afraid. To say that Dowell is more intelligent than Barkley is just plain wrong.

Just look at what Ross had achieved by the time he was Dowell's age. Despite an absolutely horrific injury as well.

Ross worked his socks off. He didn't go steaming into tackles or win headers in the middle of the park, this didn't come naturally to him. But he always showed for the ball, never hid and always tried to make things happen. He didn't always get it right but he was always trying.

He's arguably got just as crisp a left foot strike as Dowell, despite it being his weaker foot.

As for Lundstram, you are surely basing this opinion on the last 4 months alone?

He'll be a mid table at best kind of club player. No more than that, and if he's the best of what we could've had then I can live with that

Ed #8, I think Robinson's the "one who got away." Still breaks my heart that we sold him.

Mike I'm with you on points 5 and 12. Of course it is Cocu who has pulled the plug. Hes seen enough. KD has had better periods at Forest and Sheff utd and he has talent but not the engine for the press when his team haven't got the ball.
Also I'm waiting for Robinson to be signed up by a prem team soon. Rolls Royce of a player imo.
Loved Barkley but he too only worked hard without the ball when koeman beasted him. In modern football work ethic is the staple before talent. Ross is now working for Lampard a brilliant example of this.

Hard to see Dowell having any sort of future with Everton at this point. He can score pretty goals, but the issue has always been his overall work-rate, which, by all accounts, hasn't really improved a lick over multiple loan stints.

Jim B @ 3, I agree wholeheartedly with you there, Kieran Dowell was one player I had high hopes for and have followed his progress, believing that he would emerge one day as an Everton first team player or squad member.

Alas that has not been the case, and apart from a six month spell at Forest, where he became a fan favourite, but shortly after became an object of hate, and they couldn't wait to send him back.

The lad appears to have talent, but like you say does not possess the work ethic, and I tend to think he is equally happy just to be a journeyman in the lower echelons of English Football.

When I have seen him play for these Championship clubs he has been an accessory player not a necessity. These clubs cant afford anyone not to be a workhorse for 90 mins. They have players that contribute more to the fighting effort of getting results. Thats why he gets no significant game time.

He is still young and he can still make himself a necessity player by working harder and being involved for the full game. Wigan is his latest chance tostep it up.

I'd say that last paragraph is the last thing that the kid wants to happen for himself Derek, but if it's not in his make-up to really graft, then he will surely end up on the continent, which would suit his style of play that much more?

Good point about Paul Cook, Mike G, because he was a bit similar to Dowell, as a player, in the sense that he was much better with the ball, than he ever was without it, so maybe he's the type of person who might be able to get through to Kieran, who otherwise might never realise his true potential.

Robinson had to leave Mike G, he's got great pace but is very raw and only by playing every week is he going to get rid of these flaws. One for the future, a bit similar to Ryan Ledson, who didn't want to sit in the under 23's and wanted to play real competitive football instead, because this is the only thing that will truly bring young players on?

Jim Bennings - 100% agree (as I often do with your goodself). I may sound like an old miserable sod, but I've often wondered if it's beacse of the money in the game and these young men being rewarded with money we could have only dreamed of in our 20's (and still do). They get the flash cars, get the women so in thier world they have made it. Like you say the top players put in the extra effort. Ronaldo doing extra shooting practice for example and Beckham with free kicks.

As an aside I don't think our Academy is as brilliant as we think it is, very few make the PL.

Another example of why managers don't "play the youngsters". I also think this is another example of why loaning out doesn't work. I don't see how hopping from one lower league club to another helps a young player. We need to build players up to the level of the PL so I don't see how playing in lower leagues helps with this aim. I don't see how playing with other players who by definition are not good enough for premier clubs will make a young player good enough for the pace and strength of the PL.
If we don't think a young player is good enough then sell them and if they then improve and reach the required level buy them back.
Beni Baningime will be next. Also loaned to Wigan in 2019. Made one appearance. Total waste of time. We had a shed load of midfield players out injured and he still didn't get a game.
What all Premier League clubs need to do is rethink the whole way young players are brought through to the first team. The current method simply offers false hope to far too many youngsters while sloughing them off just when they should be breaking into the first team. Stop taking on skinny kids with some skill but no muscle. To an extent skill can be coached. The PL requires pace, size and strength because these are natural assets you are born with so this is what we should be looking for in youngsters. Most males stop growing at 18 so presumably we should have some idea of how big and strong a youngster will be by then. So unless they are outstanding on the skill front we should be letting them go if they haven't made the grade on the physical side.

If I'm not mistaken Keiron's contract is up,in the summer, unfortunately The Championship is about 75% fighting for the ball and very rarely any space to use the ball if you do win it. I watched Wayne Rooney for some of the game, well past it and rarely in the thick of it, the one time he found a bit of space he used it well, with a very good cross field pass to his winger, who then put in a great ball to provide the winner, this was for Derby v Barnsley.

Keiran has had numerous chances at various clubs but I think his ship has sailed regards to English football, like Tony (17) says maybe the European leagues are his best hope of making the grade, enough people have told him where he needs to up his game, but he's not listening or simply isn't capable of producing the work ethic to his undoubtful skill.

A fine talent and let's hope he finds a place, and the motivation, to fulfil it. Sometimes things don't happen and there can be all sorts of reasons. As Dave says @20, the steel just may not be in Kieran. Not many do make full use of their gifts in life.

If his contract ends this season then I'd have thought that it would have been better to bring him back for the new Manager's staff to assess if he's worth another contract. Unless that assessment has been made and there is some sort of arrangement with Wigan for a fee or compensation for a young player going to another club.

Tommy @ 11

To this day, I cant recall Ross Barkley making a tackle..never mind breaking into a sweat closing someone down !

Frank@19, the loan system is a fantastic way of letting young players learn how to play proper competitive football, but it usually only works for the kids who are good enough to come through?

Tony @24
It teaches them to play proper competitive football for whatever league their loan club is in and that is only if they get enough games. It doesn't tech them how to play in the premier league.
The only way to learn how to play PL football is to play in the PL. If you want a squad of scrappers and journeymen then loan out your youngsters. If you want PL players either play them yourself or loan them to other PL clubs or at least recently relegated from the PL clubs. Also put a clause in that the loaned player will not just be there to make up squad numbers but will start a decent number of games. If the club won't agree to that clause don't loan them the player. No player ever improved by warming the bench.

If the club don't agree to the clause, don't loan them, but don't expect them to scrap, because we don't want to turn them into journeyman.

Chelsea had 3 players on loan at championship clubs last season Frank, and now all three of them are doing well in the top league.

It's all about the individual imo, look at Ledson, he chose to get away from Everton, and become a man, and I wouldn't bet against him finding a way back into the EPL.

Dowell has been at good clubs, Forest, Sheffield Utd, Derby and now Wigan. I hope he comes good but all the talent in the world is not enough in England, players have to learn to graft and scrap. It's the golden rule unfortunately, and possibly why England always fall short at international level.

Richard@23 I am sure Lovren will disagree with you.

Interesting... Dowell has stepped immediately into the starting lineup for Wigan in their FA Cup match against Leicester. He's starting in the #10 slot. The game is live on ESPN+ in the US.

Illustrative moment: Wigan winger crosses to the far post, over the head of Dowell. Ball rolls towards the far touchline. Dowell jogs after it for a couple of seconds, then realizes he can keep it in if he tries. Sprints, slides, too late. Leicester takes the throw-in and promptly generates a scoring chance at the other end.

A full effort from Dowell would have easily recovered that ball. Instead his laziness almost cost Wigan another goal.

Brian @ 27 I must have blinked...!

He's just not that good a footballer and needs to go.

He's 23 later this year and what we're seeing is all we'll ever get; an occasional display of that nice left foot of his. Luke Garbutt II, without the long contract.

Contract has 1 more year after this at under a million. Tell his agent to find a club and do a deal. He's never going to be a top league player. Not in England.

Ancelotti could turn him into Pirlo. He's got very good technique, a good passer of the ball and understands the game well.

But like others have said, I'm not sure Pirlo would have been successful in British football and maybe learning on the continent would suit him.

Loans are all about getting decent competitive game time. If Dowells not playing then it's best to loan him elsewhere. He's at an age now where he needs regular football to learn and be judged. Another year or two and his development and learning will be about done.

24 is roughly the age midfielders and forwards football education slows, Beckham, Pirlo and Scholes had their breakthrough around that age. Wigan could be the making of him.

@ 23 Richard

Interesting point Richard. Where you one of the ones who booed him whilst he wore an Everton shirt?

@ 32 Justin

Justin, come on. This cannot under any circumstance be a serious point that you're attempting to make?

Maybe more an Arteta than a Pirlo but the point being I see a very talented player who will benefit from real competitive games rather than u21 games.

He's not strong or fast but he gets around the pitch and can certainly pass better than Davies or Schnides.

Lundstrom was a young player who had a good range of passing and a decent shot from distance on him. I'm not saying he's top class but like Gosling he's a good squad player.

I think Dowell is good enough for the Premier league as a squad payer and with the right team and manager has the talent to develop further and the height to bulk up and add strength to his frame.

I don't want him sold for half a million only to see him develop into a £10M player in a few years.

Justin mate, you're living in a dream world...a £10M player - we've plenty of them, only trouble is they cost £25, 30, 35 and £45M...and they don't even play like £1M players.

I'd hardly call supporting Everton right now living in a dream, more groundhog nightmare.

But yes I try and stay positive hoping Everton will win every game. Young players can improve, good players lose form, lazy poor players may wake up and I believe we will win some silverware..eventually.

If Dowell played regularly for a championship club which he's good enough to do, do you think they would sell him for under £1M?

I believe he's already a £6M plus player but we have a habit of selling good young players for a few £100k if that.

What would Wigan demand for one of our ex players like Robinson, probably a good few million.

Like the the whole of Evertons commercial department, (like we have one?) we never seem too see the value in our own assets. If we are now run as a business, the administrator's are banging down the door because we are currently failing at that too.

But I believe many positive things will happen in the not to distant future. Then I can live the dream.