Pickford: Criticism hurts but I just get on with it

There's a good keeper there, once he works on his decision-making and gets his head right.

This is a start. Carlo will be watching, I'm sure.

Time to grow up, lad. Fuck England get it right for us.

I don't think it has anything to do with being an England player, specifically. That said, if he wants his errors to go un-noticed maybe he should look to drop down a few divisions rather than play on the world's stage.

Goalkeepers? They more or less all become flavour of the month and then lapse at some point. Butland, Forster, Bergovich, Mignolet, Green - all seen as great keepers at some point and then considered less than adequate the very next.

He is definitely worth continuing with.

It's a bit immature to say “everyone hates you when you are England Number 1”.

Nobody hated David Seaman or Shilton I seem to recall?

Nobody hates Pickford either, there is such thing as constructive criticism and Pickford's form since the 2018 World Cup has warranted some criticism let's be honest.

For every good save he makes there's some kind of moment of madness just around the corner and once again on Saturday we witness at least two moments of insanity (one leading to Benteke levelling).

Personally I'd like to see Neville Southall get his hands on Pickford and give him some sound advice about how to calm his game down a bit more and start seeing the game for the bigger picture.

I think Big Nev recently said of Pickford that he's a reactive rather than proactive goalkeeper and I'd say that sums him up well.

it should have been a save with the feet, but he didn't even need to stoop down. So often players (not just keepers) are too keen to fall to the ground, which is silly as it means you are out of the game.

Pickford is doing okay and as long as his mentality remains intact, he will improve. He mentions Joe Hart, which is a shame because there is a player who distracted his teammates with his tunnel antics and poor decision-making. His career took a sharp downturn.

I hope Jordan watches some videos of Allison. Good positional play, good at the basics and calmness personified. All goalies make mistakes. Even the best.

Maybe he needs to join Michael Keane at his yoga classes, as I think unless he learns to relax and not be so hyper he wont fulfill his potential.

His save percentage this season now ranks at an unimpressive 61% which is less than all the regular keepers in the league bar one (Angus Gunn).

If you think this season is a blip then think again. Last year his save% was 64% which ranked him 17th in the league. 17-18 had him at 67% and in 12th position.

The stats show that he is NOT A GOOD SHOT-STOPPER! And that is supposedly his strong suit as we know he is pretty unreliable in the air.

He will be 26 in a month which is still fairly young for a keeper but he is not really improving, in fact the stats suggest he is getting worse. We have a few positions that need strengthening this summer but if there is ANY interest at all in PIckford (hopefully based on him still being England no1 this summer) then I would sell in a heartbeat. Any look at his underlying stats suggests a keeper who is mediocre at best by PL standards I'm afraid.

Good keepers make a huge difference and its not coincidence that Liverpool's upturn in form co-incided with the arrival of the excellent Allison. It's a crucial position of course and finding the right candidate is hard but unless Pickford can show a significant upturn in his form of the last two to three years then i'm convinced he is not the best man for the job.

I think given our supposed ambitions now we should aim higher than hoping a poor/mediocre keeper will get better when there is little evidence that he will.

Shilton got slaughtered for allowing the Argentine dwarf to beat him in the air for the Hand Of God goal. Pickford's right. People DO have a pop at players once they're picked for England, especially if the north/south divide comes into play.

Steve Shave @10,

Correct. Is there another club's fans that turn on their own players as much as Everton? Especially our own young players who are not allowed to falter in their development for fear of getting abused from the terraces?

I've said before on TW that just about every player, Alan Ball to Walcott, has taken a dogs abuse at some time or other, yet some pricks on the terrace think that it'll improve their performance! Get behind the players, not on their backs.

Look at all the “experts” on here that claim that Calvert-Lewin is “Championship at best”. Laughable, the lack of knowledge from some of these so-called fans.

Chelsea spent 㿷 million on Kepa and are looking for a replacement already.

I think we should stick with Pickford. Stand by him, and hopefully he'll improve and get through this tough spell. He's still young for a keeper, so his best years in front of him hopefully.

So you'd sell him in a heartbeat. And replace him with? And at what cost?

Your knowledge of European football far exceeds mine so I am interested in your choice. (Please don't say Pope. Didn't he drop a right bollock a week or two back which would have had TW in meltdown?)

Does he inspire confidence - no. He looks awfully jittery every time a cross comes into the box.

Can he command the back line? Meh. Not sure.

Do I think he can keep out shots? Yes. He has the ability.

Is he a reliable last line of defence/ good on one on ones? He is probably best at this.

Penalties - you know he can pull something off. An important trait on VAR times.

Can we cover up his defficiencies? Not with the current back line we have. Too many look away when shots are being fired. If Paul McGrath or Dave Watson in his prime were in our backline then probably yes.

If he is going to get much better he is going to need an awful lot of coaching. Reminds me of a young Mark Bosnich, before the fat took over.

Pickford seems to be permanently on edge, always dancing about because of that he is often further off his line than he should be when a shot comes in. Point in question being the Liverpool goal in the cup tie. And considering he is quite a bit shorter than most keepers he does seem to get down to chances slower than most too. Half of his reputation seems to come from the England team at the World Cup that didn't do half as well as the media tell you.

Good on you Jordan, admitting it was an error, pulling off a worldy to keep it at 1-1. Keepers make mistakes... he needs to work on things, as do ALL keepers, but he is a very good keeper.

Just like Calvert-Lewin, Schneiderlin and possibly Walcott, let Mr Ancelloti work his magic, hopefully Pickford will absorb his advice and become a better player. After all, he could have another 15 years at Everton.

Calvert-Lewin scored one, made one and missed one. Pickford made a mistake which he made up for with a good save. Some of the World Class goalkeeping coaches on here will tell you it was an easy save.

And yes, do hold your hand up after a mistake rather than remain arrogant and that will go a long way to silencing many. And stay away from off-field scandals while you're at it.

He's Englands No 1 – a position he covets no doubt, and is proud of, due to that fact that he's under intense media scrutiny and any form of error will get people talking.

But Jordan needs to be honest with himself, he's been bang average for 2 seasons now and needs to realise that his position in the National team is seriously under threat. All the best keepers can make mistakes but its more Pickford's all-round play that worries me. As a keeper he doesn't inspire confidence, he lacks physical presence, lacks a cool head and is prone mentally to go AWOL. Plus his ball work and his Hollywood passing (supposedly his strength) more often than not is crap.

Despite that we need to keep and support him, we are weaker in other areas of the pitch and that needs addressing first.

Pickford needs to realise he's being criticised for a reason. Play well you get praise let in a bread and butter speculative shot from a yard dog such as Benteke and you will get criticised, it's simple, lad.

But if he had missed that shot and we were 1-0 down searching for an equaliser, he would have been pilloried.

If he can work on his concentration and composure, there is a good keeper in there somewhere. Fortunately, these skills can be worked on, and hopefully this would lead to less mistakes also.

Like Big Nev said, he needs to be more proactive not reactive, so he is not jumping all over the place like a box of frogs.

Finding a new keeper is tough. Its a big change and is probably why he'll stay. But I think it may cost us.

From our league I'd take a good look at Henderson. Possibly the likes of Dubravka and Ryan or Ramsdale at a push.

In Europe i'd be looking at the likes of Benitez (Nice), Meret (Napoli), Pacheco (deportivo), Onana (Ajax), Larsonneur (Brest), Strakosha (Lazio). IN the championship I think that Brice Samba looks an interesting option. Wulker Farinez would be an exciting but leftfield keeper from Colombia, very talented but probably too small for our league.

He is a world class shot stopper, but not a good enough all round keeper yet. He is still young though.

Yes Andrew, Calvert-Lewin has taken ridiculous abuse and criticism on here. Was it justified? Was it right to have a go at a young striker? He's still a young player even now so to give him stick at a time when he should have been getting encouragement is a disgrace. Thankfully it doesn't appear to have done him any harm.

Sam, I can't comment on the continental keepers you mention and the only Premier keeper that I would covet is Dubravka. But is he available? It's okay to point out good keepers but they need to be available and I can't see Dubravka moving for a reasonable fee.

Ryan has been criticised recently for a couple of flaky performances and Henderson is no better than Pickford.

Clough built a team of journeymen players around Peter Shilton to become champions of Europe. Kendal did similar with Southall and our all-conquering mid-eighties side. Do not be swayed by TW contributors trying to persuade that the game is different now. That is a nonsense argument in this instance. The goalkeeper conundrum is just as relevant now as it was then.

My opinion of Pickford is not based on Saturdays error, I have not been a fan since the word go. I wouldn't consider a keeper under 6ft 3ins tall for starters. That is my concession to the 'modern game'. (Shilton's lack of inches was compensated by excellent positional sense and exceptional athleticism.)

Pickford for me is a catalogue of inexcusable errors. Admittedly, he is capable of spectacular saves. But they do not balance out his faults. I want the lad to succeed, but I feel that my criticism is justified. We should buy another keeper to give him competition at least.

In the sixties we had three top keepers in West, Rankin and Barnet all competing to be first choice. Catterick knew the importance of the goalkeeping position, plus the need for competition in the event of loss of form. The fact that Pickford seems to be an automatic choice is unhealthy in itself. In every other position, there is competition for places, goalkeeper should be no different.

I wonder what he (and others) could do on a Saturday if they felt the love and support of the crowd rather than just live in fear of the next mistake they'll get lambasted for? It's no longer the '80s – deal with it and act accordingly!

His excitable behaviour is not caused by immaturity related to age and inexperience as much as they are by personality issues. I have thought for over two years he does not have the temperament to be a reliable, calming presence in the team. Like all keepers he will continue to make great saves but would you have this keeper playing for your life? His great save on Saturday was instinctive in that he simply made himself as big as he could with the header from Benteke hitting him. All keepers make those sort of saves but they do not compensate for the number of mistakes or lack of assurance behind the defence.

Had Saturday's howler been his only mistake this season it would have been excusable. Regrettably it followed several goals where fans were left asking ‘how did that go in?' Soft goals conceded from direct free kicks and corners have exposed his weaknesses. Until recently I would have agreed with those who say Pickford is not our biggest problem. But he is getting there.

''We as supporters are fully entitled to make constructive criticism of any player where it is justified.''
Correct Phil. I have been going to GP a similar length of time to yourself, 1959 to be exact, but I fail to see how ''You're f****** shite'' is constructive criticism, especially when screamed by some beer filled, red faced blowhard who's never kicked a ball in his life, (and who looks like he's a stranger to a salad so his fitness levels may be in question) yet I've witnessed that with depressing regularity in Gwladys St every week. Once Hibbert and Osman retired it was open season on anyone who'd come through the ranks, ie, Barkley, Davies, DCL, Holgate etc.
Criticism is one thing, but the level of vitriol from some ''fans'' won't improve anyone's performance.

I suspect what funds there are will be allocated to other areas, unless someone out there offers us £30-40m for Pickford I expect him to be here next season. But he really has not been a good keeper for us over the last two years I'm afraid.

As for Pickford, being the same height as wee Neville Southall shouldn't be a problem

Steve, nothing strange about thinking that someone who has never kicked a ball in anger can appreciate that, sometimes, you can make a mistake and what seems to be an easy save/shot doesn't always come off. And nowhere do I say that it is EXCLUSIVELY the younger players who attract criticism. I hear Schneiderlin, Siggy et all get loads of abuse. Do you think that that will make them play better. Serious question, do you?

Yes, you're right about Henderson, it might be worth keeping an eye on his situation. I would hope that Brands is already aware of it, providing, of course, that he regards Pickford in such low esteem. He may think that he is worth persevering with and hoping that Carlo can polish off the rough edges.

Newcastle and Liverpool fans can't get enough of him, it's embarassing, and it needs to stop.

The only funny comment for several matches was actually on Saturday.Someone was down injured, Richarlison I think, and Pickford put the ball into touch so the trainer could come on. ''Pickford, that was shite''...the only thing approaching humour in the 90 minutes.

I sincerely hope that in time, the lad makes me eat my words, but from what I've seen so far, Pickford is not in the same league as Southall.
Before you say it, I'll beat you to it, I know. Who is?

Meanwhile, there aren't many better keepers than Pickford.

The reason the shouts and banter don't go on anymore is down to the modern world and fear of offending someone.

It's sad. It's shite. It's how it is and I hate it.

Football was a release for men back in the 50's to 80's. Times have changed and some are too easily offended and the shouts have gone due to this.

I'll still be at Arsenal a week on Sunday though for the modern terms, like LIMBS!!!

Hope we get some as we have never won at that ground I don't think.

UTFT

It's all about opinion. But opinions that are exaggerated, lack perspective or are so quickly discredited, as players go in and out of form are, in my opinion, not worth a badger's bean.

Does it do any good having a go at a player absolutely not but its done out of frustration more than anything else. And lets not forget Evertonians have more to be frustrated with than a lot of other teams.
As for the comment about the body shape of the supporter and not likely to have had a salad is sanctimonious bollocks. As for asking for fans to give constructive criticism, well let me know when your next a game when a player makes a mess and you hear a fan saying come along Jordan or Tom or Morgan you should have been a little more careful, but never mind play up the blues. Maybe at Eton or Harrow you may here this but football is a working class game bye and large watched predominantly by working class people. so expect strong abusive language and as long as the abuse isn't racist or homophobic or religious than thats OK in my book.

To me it is laughable to see some fans in endless cycles go from one player to another slagging them off. In the ground or on here.
If it's abuse it can be dealt with. If it is offered as opinion it isn't worth the spit coming from their mouths.

Maybe you're right about the ''aggressive society'', when you see the amount of road rage it's probably a lot more aggressive now than years ago.

Do one.

Its about looking at how many mistakes they make and how many saves they make over the course of 25-100 games.

Over the 25/26 PL games they have both played this season Henderson has performed markedly better than Pickford.

I'll join Dave and Phil with the whole working class thingy, Roby/Huyton in my case. And you? Harrow? Eton? Oxbridge? ;-)
The reference to the lard arse screeching abuse is that someone who has never tried something is hardly in a position to criticise someone who (usually) CAN.
Like a golfer missing a three foot putt. Pro golfers still miss short putts that would embarrass me as a Sunday morning player. Doesn't make them ''shite'' though. It makes them human.

There was clearly a lot of love for him from all quarters when he first joined us from Sunderland. In his first season he made a clean sweep of the annual club awards.

Fans' player of the season.
Fans' young player of the season.
Players' player of the season.

Some regard his perceived 'shortness' for a modern-day keeper as a liability.

Some question his ability to command his penalty area.

Some question his all-round technique.

But possibly more to the fore than any other trait or characteristic of Jordan, many question his temperament.

Personally, I'm always a little bit suspect when people start making extravagant claims about a person's mental capacities and stability based solely on what they see and perceive of them from watching a game of football, as many do about Jordan.

In this thread alone you can see many such disparaging comments about his 'immaturity', 'madness', 'insanity'. That he is, and puts many, 'always on edge', 'jittery', 'lacks a cool head', 'mentally goes AWOL'.

I rather like that Jordan reiterates, not for the first time, that he has the strength of character to put mistakes immediately behind him and focus on the job in hand. He did that spectacularly with the excellent save from Benteke moments after Everton had re-taken the lead.

Those determined to see nothing positive in Jordan Pickford the goalkeeper steadfastly refuse to acknowledge how good - and how deliberate - a save that was.

Has Jordan Pickford made some howlers in his Everton career? Absolutely. But it is not exclusive to him in that small band of PL goalkeepers. Post-match Saturday he was brutally honest about the goal, describing his effort to save it as 'disgusting'.

Does he fail to command his back line? Not from what I see and hear! He is evidently VERY vocal, whoever you are, whatever your reputation. I still remember him in one of his early games giving Wayne Rooney a right earful for pissing about and losing the ball on the edge of the penalty area.

And that leads me on to Sam Hoare's stats that he quotes. Here is one such site with the numbers. Scroll down to the second table which you can filter in many ways.

Link

For the most part, Jordan Pickford has been playing with a dysfunctional defence in front of him in his time at Everton. Very much under Silva this season we were given up triple AAA scoring opportunities to the opposition. Jordan saved our arse in many memorable one-on-one duels. He cannot be expected to save them all. But as a result of the defence in front of him not doing their job, his numbers can look bad.

I'm with those still very much on-board with Jordan Pickford. Yes, he and the squad could benefit from having a better quality challenger for his position at the club.

That is where the goalkeeping transfer budget should be pitched at. Not some extravagant wheeler-dealing of offloading Jordan and rolling the dice on some equally high-priced replacement.

Our priorities in the summer transfer window should lay elsewhere, IMO.

We.ve been doing what we are doing now since I can remember, the Carey days, now all of a sudden political correctness is alive and well at the footy and we are not allow to criticize anything that happens because it might upset the player involved or the supporters.
Oh yes and we shouldn't have a drink before the match.

Really is time to pack in the match and just watch it on the telly. Wonder if the dog will get upset if I shout at the telly

He is a very good keeper, but is only 5'10 so would probably be easily bullied at corners by the taller players in our league. Not looked out of place yet though in the full national team.

''Jordan Pickford appears to be a real 'Marmite' player with many Blues. ''

Disgusting?

When were you elected as the policeman of Everton fans to decide what is acceptable to shout at players, or what body shape is allowed to be critical as I said sanctimonious bollocks. Obviously Pickfords wife or partner I am not sure which isn't feeling any distress from the criticism Jordan got on Saturday. As she posts a picture of herself sipping cocktails at the side of their 5 star hotel in Morroco that her and Jordan are staying during the break.

It wasn't Phil who made a light hearted reference to some lard arse who couldn't kick a ball but would happily screech abuse at someone who could, it was me. And Phil, you, me, we're all entitled to our opinion. Like Phil and others, I despair at ''fans'' who do nothing but scream at players in the belief that it will improve the players performance. It won't. (I've hear some bellend in the St End shouting at Osman BEFORE kick off.)
Generally, I try not to be TOO serious on TW, there are enough doom mongers as it is, and being descriptive regarding the fat, piss headed (and racist) cretin who used to berate the players is an attempt at humour. If I really said what I think you WOULD be upset. And I'd get a ban.

In the last couple of weeks the younger Brazilian hopefuls have been competing with all the other Latin America countries in an Olympic qualifying competition.

Last night, in the final game, Brazil HAD to win against arch-rivals Argentina, who had already qualified for the Olympics, to secure their place in Tokyo as the defending champions.

The Argies started well but within 30 minutes Brazil were 2-0 up and had a firm grip on the game. They didn't loosen it and won 3-0 in the end.

With teams largely limited to fielding U-23s, expect Richarlison to be on call to join the squad. He will want to play, I'm sure of that.

It's not only the loss of recuperation time he potentially loses, but given the dates of the Tokyo games he would also miss some games at the start of the PL season.

'Disgusting!' is how Jordan described his own attempts to save the Benteke goal.

D'ya think we can conclude from that JP isn't a marmite-lover?

Brands' not blind. If he thinks there's someone out there to challenge Pickford, I'm sure he'll talk to Carlo.

Yeah, I thought it was funny that Pickford/Marmite/Disgusting would all appear in the same post!

I believe that the supporter of today is more demanding and less tolerant, they are expecting perfection from their own team, and are willing to accept any mistake that the opposition may present them with.

My pet example of this is, Dominic Calvert Lewin, could unleash a powerful strike from 30 yards and the view would be "No keeper in the world would have saved that" Two minutes later, the opposing striker could score an identical goal and the cry would be, "He should have been closed down," or "Pickford was too far off his line." Identical goals but received in different a way. Footballers are humans and not robots, if we recognise this I'm sure we'll get much more enjoyment from our match-day experience.

Good laugh though.

Hope that dog of yours still has all its legs the next time Pickford makes an error.

If it can happen to one of the greatest of all time, a World Cup winner, 2-time European Championship winner, over 100 caps for Spain, 3 Champions League, 5 leagues.... I've got bored of recounting his honors — Jordan has no chance of getting an easy ride!

Thanks for the approval John. Good to see that you're still the voice of experience and common sense. Your example of the DCL scenario hits the nail on the head.

All players make mistakes. All people make mistakes at work.
We won dispite the mistake so whats the big deal? It was annoying but in the end we won. Support Carlo and his boys. See the positives, COYB

Are you watching the match Jay?

There's nothing wrong with questioning him, I slagged him off for the mistake and also jumped out of my seat when he made that incredible save and cheered it like a goal. He is capable of those kind of saves but what he isn't consistently doing and never has in his career is produce normal, calm, unnoticed consistent levels of performance. He's always been a keeper who lets in a lot of goals, I worry about that.

His distribution can be an asset but it's not worth the blunders, he needs to improve quickly or he will be swiftly replaced.

Assuming no one pays (much) attention to Serie A, Lazio is in 3rd, 1 pt off Juventus/Inter at the top of the table. Strakosha has conceded 19 (non-pen) goals in 23 matches (~2,100 minutes) vs Pickford who's conceded 37 (non-pen) goals in 26 matches (~2,350 minutes).

Strakosha has a 78% save rate (19 goals, 71 shots), compared to Pickford's 63% (37 goals, 100 shots). Strakosha's distribution has produced a pass completion of 76%, compared to Pickford's 56%. And Strakosha has 8 clean sheets compared to Pickford's 6.

He's my top choice by far, and there's no question Ancelotti is familiar with him, which means Brands is too.

No, not able to watch the game. I wish! Just followed the live text on the club site. 4-0 it remained at the final whistle. Simms hit the bar in the final minute to be denied his hat-trick.

Steve @ 97. Talking of players nicking coats, did you see the short footage doing the rounds of Sidibe on the touchline Saturday when he was FINALLY properly attired to enter the fray?

In the background you can see Tom Davies and Mason Holgate playing paper-rock-scissors. It was seemingly to contest who was going to claim Sidibe's jacket as an extra layer on a bittingly cold day, I understand!

That's my defence. Conversely & reading between the lines, his instant reference to England indicates that this is focus. A country over club player. Dangerous territory as he's assuming he'll always be picked for England regardless of club form & that's what matters to him. I could be over-analysing, but that's what cam to mind when I read his interview.

He's too comfortable knowing he's first choice at club & country, regardless of from. He needs competition at club to incentivise his performances; no club. no country.

Fair play to the lad for accepting & acknowledging the mistake, but this was for Everton & nothing to do with England. He was criticised & “targeted” because he made a basic mistake that led to a potentially point losing outcome playing for Everton. I don't think anyone criticised him or picked on him because he plays for England.

If Crystal Palace's keeper had made the same mistake, he'd have been called out for it.

He's a good keeper in the making. Back to my previous, a bit of anger management & maturity would help a lot with his decision making.

I still believe Pickford needs to ignore the crowd more than he does. He pays too much attention to them, Newcastle and the RS has sown the seeds for far too many fans not to use.

If he has doubts and feels sorry for himself, the he should talk to Alex Williams, the ex Man City keeper. He got a torrid time from the Gwladys st.

Shout out to Nigel Martin, especially in his twilight years at Everton?

And probably a reverse argument to my David Seaman point (as in not such a great keeper protected by a tight defence)

Like Pickford or not, whilst he ours, lets do what we can to lift him. He's not so stupid not to realise he totally messed up and sure he'll be livid with himself. And if decisions need to be taken about getting another keeper in, lets trust Carlo/Brands to do their job.

Don't get me wrong - I was furious with the Palace goal - but we need to ensure our passion for EFC has a positive impact on both players and the club and we don't self destruct as we seem to do far too often.

Joe, Gigi Buffon is the best keeper of the Premier League era for me. Long me he continue as when he hangs the gloves up I don't think there's anyone left older than me!

Just look at Pope. No one shines a spotlight on him. He's having a poor season. Burnley are a poor side. He is mostly shown on MOTD making saves as Burnley are under the cosh. No one cares about his mistakes. Dubravka has made some great saves and won games single handedly for Newcastle. But he's had a few howlers and cost them goals too. He gets away with that because there's no pressure on Newcastle and he's not English. Henderson has had a few howlers but no one cares because he's young. Ramsbottom has made loads of mistakes.

Pickford makes a mistake and it means we lose. He plays for a side that conceded few chances unlike all those mentioned above. He doesn't get a chance to make many saves. Everything he does is magnified.

My view is he's slightly better than average and as he plays for a midtable side, isn't that what we're meant to have?

I'm always surprised how few here mention Martyn. I always thought he was outstanding, better than Seaman. And as a Yank I always have to put an oar in for Brad Friedel, who won so many games for US sides that were clearly inferior to their opponents, and did the same for Blackburn and Villa. If he'd ever played for a decent side, he'd have been recognized as one of the best in the world.

I never saw him live but remember him from the 1958 World Cup. He is rated by many to be the greatest goalkeeper of all time: athletic, brave and fearless. If you have to be mad to be a goalkeeper, Lev certainly proved it with his diving at oncoming forwards and winning the ball off them. He wore an all-black outfit, shirt, shorts and socks. An incredible stopper... played all his career, 20 years, with Moscow Dynamo.

I also disagree with notion which appears inferred by some as that he saves us loads, so making too much of odd mistake. To me he gets away with loads. Yesterday a case in point - running out spilling catches (yesterday with Zaha when he later dived under Coleman “challenge) and I recall instances against clubs I mentioned above. Saves he simply should and doesn't make - yesterday against Van Arnholt at near post - v lucky.

He's only young and may well rapidly improve but biggest concern is that depends on his mental state - that's why people making opinions observations on this as it's v v important for a keeper

As far as I am aware, Carlo has told the players not to book a Holiday during the break and that the players will be at Finch farm instead of having a winter warmer abroad.

I really hope this is true because over the last few years when we have excited the cup, the players were rewarded with a trip abroad during the next round.

This is the PL's first half-hearted attempt at staging a winter break. Our's started almost immediately after the Palace game.

ALL players are at complete liberty to travel where they like in the time the manager allowed them.

This is different from the previous two week break we had due to being eliminated from the FA Cup. The players were not on an official winter break, but an unenforced and unwelcome one. They continued to train as normal at Finch Farm during this time.

Your confusion possibly arises from this. Carlo said at the start of that break that the squad would not be travelling to exotic surrounds for warm weather training, that Finch Farm served our needs perfectly.

Nobody's doing 'a Jo' on us.

The howler he made on Saturday he can be excused for by his explaination, but he needs to realise that howlers like that can cost games to be lost and a goalkeeper career can go down hill as a result, This is particularly the case at International level , as Gareth Southgate sitting with Brands in the Stands on Saturday knows.

Pickford needs alot of support at the moment to get him performing at his best till the end of the season. Being dropped by England is not in Evertons or Pickfords interests.

Aye Paul, I've been to Stoke many times but not for several years. I am assuming that you are saying that Stoke fans give their own team stick?

So, are we comparing ourselves with Stoke now?😯

My point about keepers & maturity. They are at their best in their 30s, so whilst we can be critics of the likes of young Jordan (I have been here), let's add perspective and context.

You need to get that soap box out more often.

Fantastic stuff!

Classic footage of the great man, doing exactly how he subsequently described keeping goal.

Lots of evidence there of one-on-ones where the forward looks the overwhelming favourite, but Nev's early positioning and stillness - waiting for the forward to blink first and commit to the shot - won the day.

You forget how good his reflexes were, added to astonishingly quick recovery to see off 2nd shots. The surety of his handling is a joy to behold. Some absolute piledrivers in there and he just gathered them into his mitts. Totally demoralising for a forward.

He was a bit good, wasn't he?

His personality, I think, doesn't lend itself to total concentration when the ball is outside his immediate zone. This is something he has to work on, calm and focused concentration at all times. I think with maturity this part of his game will improve. He will become a real world class keeper at around 30.

Hi John 138. I had a book of tickets for those games, for the Paddock at the Gwladys Street end. I remember some of the houses in Gwladys Street were decorated welcoming supporters from the foreign countries.

Wasn't there controversy over the semi-final as England were supposed to play at Goodison Park, but it was changed so they could play at Wembley.

A few years ago there was a lad who sat behind me, who over a season went from Paul Gerard in goal right through to Mark Pembridge or whoever wore the number 11 on his back, describing them as crap. I put up with it for as long as I could but in the end I turned and said to him, "You must be some player" [feel free to insert whatever expletive you like]. Rightly or wrongly, I feel that the most unlikely looking [possible athletes], are the most vociferous.

I understand that football is a way of letting off steam and escaping the everyday worries of life, in fact I'm on record as saying that on a match day my world is 100 yards long and 70 yards wide for the best part of two hours, but there are ways of letting off steam. I'm quite sure that there will be some who will regard me as being some sort of nut-case, but be that as it may.

While acknowleding that Southall is the best I've ever seen (anywhere, not just Everton), I truly believe that inter-generational comparisons are misleading. The pace of the game, the ball itself, goalkeeper coaching and the demands on the modern goalie have changed beyond recognition. Wall to wall TV coverage of matches have raised our expectation of goalies because there are actually so many good ones about. Stupendous saves of the past are almost routine now. And there were probably as many if not more bloopers - just unseen due to the lack of coverage.

At least most people wait until they see players over a period of time or games before they make adverse comments or remarks. Praise when it's due and stick when it's due.

We've had posters on here slag off players – and even managers – before they've even signed on!!

Springett was a very good keeper, athletic and agile, but he was a dwarf by today's standard measuring 1.79 m which is 5 ft 8 ins (apparently). He was in goal for Sheffield in 1966 final.

Football changed over the years but no position has evolved more than the keeper. Narrowing angles, fitness, dedicated training regimes have all made goalkeeping a more individual position than ever before. Keepers train for much of the time with their own personal trainer. Add to this the fact that keeper who is 6 ft 1 ins is now regarded as “too small” or T Rex!

It is, in my opinion, the position that has changed the most and, I firmly believe that, even with identical fitness and diet etc, is the one position that players from the past would not be as good today.

Thank you, Darren. Coming from a regular poster such as yourself, I regard that is a real compliment.

There's a couple of clips I've never seen before. Villa & United saves were par excellence. Brightened my day. Just been hit with $$$$$ Bill for the basement. Pfft America houses

How'd the birthday end up?! Bet you got a peach of a view of Richarlison's goal?

Despite the fact that some goalies seem to have forgotten the art of catching the ball (we wore no gloves at all in my day!), I think the standard of today's goalkeeping is as high as it has ever been. We don't rate certain keepers as highly today because they are poor in comparison with other contemporaries, but the odds are that they are consistently better than the goalies of yesteryear.

We are all guilty sometimes of rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to reviewing are favourites from the past. That said, I'm sure that Southall, Banks, Schmeichel, Jennings, Clemence would have been good in any era.

I got a bit of stick on here by saying “I think we can all agree he wouldn't get into a top-six side” just a few weeks ago and I think Brands and Carlo know his position needs addressing and will definitely bring someone in over the summer.

I have no reason to dislike the lad and he is probably a top bloke but I honestly don't think he good enough for our club and is yet another poor signing by Steve Walsh.

Oh and before I go this augment that keepers get better as age can someone please explain Alisson aged 26, Ederson aged 27 and De Gea aged 29 (the latter being at the top of his game for some years now)?

I listened to Pat Nevin talking about penalties and the number that are now saved. Apparently the average height of a keeper now is 6ft-5ins. That's bigger than most Canadian Redwood trees! This and their added athleticism and the homework that they do on the penalty takers have levelled the playing field somewhat.

And Ray #165. It doesn't surprise me - and yet the dimensions of the goal haven't changed! I do believe, however, that there is a point at which the goalies become too leggy and struggle to cope with balls close to their body because they can't get down quickly enough. Fraser Forster and Nick Pope fall into that category in my opinion which, to me, explains why the latter uses his legs so much.

I would expect him to make a decision this season and summer about Jordan Pickford, who is a talented ‘keeper who has some fundamental flaws. The lad has some elements of Gazza about him, and I suspect he would benefit from working with a sports psychologist if he is not already doing so.

As for Pickford's display on Saturday, the goal was clearly a blunder. But the “star save” was excellent, and in real time I also thought his challenge at the feet of Zaha was brave and very well-timed.

What we need to remember is how he got to be where he is today. Loans, and more loans! Pickford has played from the non-League and ever upwards, year by year!

His reaction saves are unbelievable at times! And any striker through on goal will always be a 50/50, so why get on his back when one gets past him? No one could ever guarantee a 100% save percentage one-on-one.

What I do question is his concentration issues. Even in games we've won, I've seen him devoting too much time to the opposition fans behind his goal. He really needs to learn to ignore them!

I've not read a single comment, but was so fired up about this I wanted to post, and I'll read the comments later tonight while most of you fine people are fast asleep.

The English pundits and press are certifiably vicious with the England National Team. They go on a witch hunt that would make Trump giggle. They destroy the team and eat them alive.

Jordan can be a bit nutty. But my God I'll back him for saying this. The press in your country are absolute shithouses. I use that word purposely, as by reading on these pages it seems to have great affect. They are terrible, they eat their own, they are worse than sharks to blood in a feeding frenzy. Ask a certain exiled couple in and around Vancouver, British Columbia presently who just said, "Fuck it, we're out."

I'm thrilled Jordan basically stuck up for himself. The kid's not perfect, but I'd hope to God Evertonians rally around him and these comments.

I'd also trepidatiously say this: Fleet Street, full of Southerners in your country, are attacking one of our own from everything I've heard on the radio today. My experience, and my opinion as an outsider, is Scousers don't take very kindly to Southerners telling them what to do. I'm hoping I will read later tonight, and see in the near future, a Scouse "circle the wagons, leave our fucking guy alone you posh, prick Southerners" type of response.

He is very highly paid and should take his job more seriously, while I don't expect him to save every shot, some are just bordering on ridiculous, and his percentages should increase, if he cuts out the idiocy.

This thread has turned into a very good one with all the old goalkeepers named. I think I saw most of them, and one post mentioned three ‘keepers who I rated, all of a small size: Hodgkinson, Sheffield Utd, Hopkinson, Bolton and our own Albert Dunlop.

Albert, I think, made his debut in the 5-2 win at Old Trafford against Man Utd and played very well. Later in that season, he played even better at the same venue in the FA Cup but we lost 1-0 to a Duncan Edwards goal. Bert Williams was another small-sized goalie of Wolves and England fame.

One of the very few I saw, but seen him a young boys eyes, was the Frank Swift of Man City. in another FA Cup game at Goodison, we won 1-0 with a goal from Billy Higgins, who was kidnapped before the game by Liverpool students and was held to ransom before he was let go. Frank Swift was a larger-than-life character, tragically killed at Munich with the Man Utd players and a few more reporters like himself.

Sorry to go on, that's my six pints worth, finished for the night.

Pete #169, best post of the thread.

The lad hasn't got it, I knew this before we signed him. He's had a lucky ride with England.

Oh and calls for Big Nev to be brought in to have a word with him... what is it that they say, "You should never meet your heroes?" And for anyone who hasn't ever met him, ask yourself this, why is he rarely invited back to the club?

We should get behind him now. He's a worry sometimes but he has a strong core and he will get better.

I went to all the games at Goodison Park for the '66 World Cup. The first game was Brazil v Bulgaria, 3-0 to the Brazilliants. I remember the colour, the noise, the skill. Pele, Garrincha. The Brazil goalie was Gilmar, I think. In the Russian team, there was of course the famous Lev Yashin between the sticks. As a schoolboy, and later amateur, keeper, I was thrilled to see one of the greats close up.

At that time, the English league seemed to be full of good solid keepers. Banks, of course, Springett, Hodgkinson, Hopkinson and later our own Westie. Can I give a shout out for Andy Rankin, who at one time displaced West in goal? He was a spectacular keeper rather than what I would call solid.

I remember in a cup game, I think against Hull, he was injured and had to be replaced. No subs then, so an outfield player went in goal and Andy played out the game on the left wing!

For me, our best ever keeper was, of course, the imperious Big Nev. I enjoyed the link provided by Steve Ferns. I think Nev would agree though, that some saves are because the ball comes at the height and position you would want as a keeper.

Now I'm no lover of Pickford, I dont like his attitude, he parries too much and, if I were a defender in front of him, I wouldn't be confident because he doesn't "boss" the box. However, I have some sympathy with him over the goal he conceded against Crystal Palace.

The worst place for a keeper to save a shot IMHO is on the floor and close to you, just where he was caught out on Sunday. As to whether he should be replaced, well, as I said earlier, West was once replaced by Andy Rankin because of poor form. Who have we got now to step in?

Utter bolleaux! 😴

Is he up an coming French keeper we are scouting?

The taker is on a hiding to nothing. He is EXPECTED to score which certainly racks up the pressure. I played CF and hated taking penalties so I left it to others who were more comfortable taking them. I saw Gerrard (spit) saying that when he was taking a penalty at Old Trafford the keeper
Was making himself look “bigger “ by spreading his arms etc. and the goal appeared to shrink. Even he was nervous. The kind of penalty I dislike is when the taker is too busy posing with a pathetic, stuttered run before a soft side foot shot.See Pogba for instance.
Put your boot through it for heavens sakes.
I won't if there are stats comparing the success rates for putting your foot through the laces and “placing” the ball.
Where's Steve Ferns when you need him?

The guy just keeps cocking up and how long is it before people remove the 'potential' and 'our keeper' blinkers and realise that he is rubbish?

It's like people don't want to admit that they've seen what they've seen for fear of being proven wrong.

We are often branded by our own ToffeeWebbers as negative but I would say we are realists.

People would still be saying that he's young and he had good potential after he's dropped his 12th bollocks in half a season.

I won't judge people for giving their honest opinion, but supporting players who are clearly not up to the job is worse because you prolong the agony for the rest of us.

Be careful what you wish for eh? So stick with Silva then? Or replace him with someone with Actual ability rather than potential

Chelsea are supposedly replacing Kepa because they realise that a goalkeeper who is not saving enough shots is going to have a seriously detrimental affect on the team. And yet many on here want to keep Pickford?

Loyalty can be a good thing but but it can also be a big hindrance. Look at the way Man City treated Joe Hart when he was still England no 1. They realised he was something of a liability and moved quickly to upgrade. If we want to reach the upper echelons then we may need to dispense with this Evertonian sentimentality, this 'lets back the players'. I get it with the youngsters who are especially fragile and early in their development but Pickford is playing his fourth full season in the PL with around 100 first team games in the football league too. He's no kid. We need better if we have genuine top 4 aspirations over the next 5 years.

Long gone are the days when we could shell out a then record fee for a goalie like Gordon West to replace Albert Dunlop. We weren't known as the millionaire's club for nothing. It seems under Moshiri we do have money to spend but, Financial Fair Play notwithstanding, there must be other areas of the field that need strengthening first?

There may be other areas that need strengthening but unless Pickford improves then I genuinely think it becomes a priority. Don't think many of our other players rank 2nd worse in the league in their field.

Well said Ray.

Pickford is his own worst enemy at times when he either clowns around or makes certain comments, engaging his mouth before his brain, but he will learn.

Look what has happened to Paul Robinson and Joe Hart! both at the top of the tree in their time, and after that there's only one way, and that's down.

Jordan hasn't reached the top of the tree yet! It remains to be seen how far he can progress.

Ask yourself who out there is better and available.

Carlo will decide Jordan's future and that's good enough for me 😎

We have always failed to "reach higher levels" because we accept that Pickford is a decent keeper.

Have I got it right now mate?

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-andy-rankin-the-everton-goalkeeper-saves-from-hunt-liverpool-v-everton-84717247.html

Hunt's shot was travelling like an Exocet missile from the edge of the box. Talk about reaction saves. This is the best save I have ever seen barring none.

I alway love an opportunity to repost it.

Making those marginal gains in the right places may be how we get from 8th-ish to 5th and hopefully even 4th or above.

I hope he improves but currently, statistically and to my eye, Pickford is one of the worst performing keepers in the league. The problem will be finding a buyer and for that reason I expect him to stay.

My argument on this thread is those that advocate that we, as supporters, should have no right to criticize a player when they make a mistake.
A one off mistake is, in my opinion, just one of those things that we have to accept and move on from. However, when a player continues to make mistakes then we have every right to make comment.

This back and support them regardless, just because they play for Everton, is nonsense.

Many of us have continued to support DCL, Holgate, JJK, Davies since they came into the team, a team that had lost all identity, knowing they were starting from a shit position. Now with the right support and tactics they are starting to show their potential.
Hopefully JJK will be back next season giving Coleman a run for his money at right back

Unfortunately some players will never learn.

Hi Dave [174] Do you not regret the missed opportunity of seeing the likes of Eusebio, Beckenbauer, etc. and that memorable encounter between Portugal and North Korea? Best wishes Johhn.

Hi Tony, [180] as you will have read the score in the Brazil vs Bulgaria game was 2-0 and as Dave says both goals were from free-kicks, [Pele and Garrincha] Tony you have made an old man happy,I have asked thousands of fans if they could recall Andy Rankin being forced to play outside left because of injury, if my memory hasn't failed me completely, it was Brian Harris who replaced him in Goal. I also remember Gordon West being forced to occupy the same position, I'm not 100% certain but I think Sandy Brown would have replaced him 'between the sticks,' I'm not sure of the opposition.

For younger 'Webbers' it was in pre-substitute days'. Best wishes John.

Yes John, Eusébio and Beckenbauer were well worth watching, along with two or three Hungarians in the Brazil game, saw that on TV.

As for Gary Sobers, yes I remember it being suggested him being toted for trials with Everton but I put it down to the same way as Joe Louis, when heavyweight champion of the world, signing for Liverpool, just publicity.

Go along with your suggestion that Sandy Brown would have replaced Gordon West between the sticks.

Yes, I welcomed it when they introduced substitutes but disagree with all the time wasting etc. with what's going on today with multiple substitutions.

Referees are to blame in some cases were red cards are concerned because some issue the yellow card willy nilly far too early and can result in the dismissal later that affects the result of the game.

The antics of some players and coaches these days is, frankly an embarrassment to the sport and a bad example to many young players learning the game who think these antics are the normal thing to do especially now in the glare of social media.

This latest Delle Alli incident is an example of the stupidity going on today.

That's the only reason this is so-called "news". Only two games at the weekend and the media needed something to fill space. Ridiculous!

I disagree with your comment of, "This back and support them regardless, just because they play for Everton, is nonsense." Because they play for Everton is the very reason I do support them, I may be critical of them during a match, but because it's a team game, I don't single a player out to vent my spleen.

I have only been posting on this site for a couple of years but I have never abused either an Everton player, or fellow ToffeeWebber. I'm a ''Do As You Would Be Done By'' sort of chap.

He did start well but has provoked more questions than answers to his overall form, technique and in particular what is perceived to be a suspect temperament.

Had he conceded the Benteke header and saved the shot, I'm fairly sure no conversation would be had. Making a save from a high percentage shot is rare yet spectacular but should be valued far less than saving a grass cutter hit like a 10-year-old. That's his bread and butter and it happens multiple times in a game.

The concerns have been there for 18months, yet his first season seems to given him more credit in the bank than perhaps was due?

I'll repeat very few top goalkeepers have the outward temperament he appears to have. The very best are outwardly calm, organised and unflappable.

The errors in his game are consistently there, his kicking (feted as a strength) is less effective and he often chooses the wrong time to chip a ball to a full back. The free kicks he's conceded are becoming a trope in his game, he cheats almost every time to the ‘wall side' and is beaten on ‘his side'. I'd never blame a keeper if someone sticks it over the wall, but too many have been his side, Brighton and Man City immediately spring to mind.

Most importantly for me, his ability to dominate the box has a very profound effect on his defenders. The Newcastle equaliser was there to be claimed at the edge of his six, he started and stopped, caused confusion and was too far across his goal, his position was compromised and well carnage.

So do I want him removed? Perhaps. In the medium term, we will find better; however, to replace him with an equal or a better is too costly. Can a better coach be employed to improve him, his game has completely stagnated? Or are we brave enough to find a less experienced keeper with strong decision-making skills and challenge Pickford for his place? A lot will depend on our finish: if we make the Europa League, a challenger needs to be bought.

A lot to ponder, but in the short term the lad needs to be anonymous in games, maybe he should speak to Gylfi?

He made a mistake in not saving the Benteke shot but made two good saves, one that defied belief really. He didn't give the Benteke goal away as the striker should have scored 9 times out of 10, whatever the goalie did.

Jordan is a superb keeper, as the management of Everton and England know well. He is part of the great future that is developing for the club. Shame on some for what I see as totally irrational criticism of a great young player. That we have him is a massive positive for the club.

Then bring in Thomas Strakosha of Lazio and Jack Butland on the cheap as backup, whilst retaining Stekelenburg.

Indeed there is.

Posts 178, 197, 199, 201 and now 219 itself being fine examples of said waffle.

This thread and others aren't specifically basing an opinion on one game. The issues are there, they're being made repeatedly, and he's not improving.

Others who have come in for (rightly too) criticism in the same 18 months, have improved. Holgate and Calvert-Lewin are two good examples. Can you point to where Pickford has improved in the the last 18 months? His save percentage over this time has gotten worse, it doesn't tell the whole story but it's a strong indication of underlying problems which haven't been arrested.

I think it's very hard to say he's more than an average goalkeeper.

It says a great deal more about the author than the intended target.

Fact is, he has made some high-profile errors but is still a young goalkeeper who will hopefully iron these lapses out of his game. One thing's for certain, Carlo won't put up with it if he doesn't.

'Just as I thought...'

You claim the capacity to 'think'?

Now there's a surprise.

And #201 "Goalkeeper is the easiest position to fill. There are plenty of other options around and can be found at bargain prices. You just need to be clever in the market".

So another club would pay silly money for Pickford when, in your own words, "there are plenty of other options around and can be found at bargain prices".

"You just need to be clever in the market"!

You then state that he is a 'superb keeper' with, guess what, no facts to back it up!!

Most of the criticism on here is not based solely on his error last weekend but on a very underwhelming last 18 months in goal. The facts, if you look at them, back this up pretty strongly.

Also, I think his save from Benteke has been over-egged rather. He moved across the goal well (he is certainly agile) but Benteke planted his header right at his chest; good positioning but a very poor miss, it was no Gordon Banks, as some are making out.

I state that he's a superb keeper, it's an opinion that needs no back-up; he's first choice keeper for his club and country and he has a lot of competition for the position. The alternative is that the criticism is often overstated which is my belief.

I'm well aware of confirmation bias, having a degree in psychology, which is why I try to look at the underlying statistics which, though often used too selectively, can also provide a more objective picture when used correctly.

I like Pickford; he clearly cares a great deal and has great potential... but the stats clearly suggest to me that he is not improving and is not excelling in comparison to his peers. I would say the same thing even if he had not made an error last weekend.

Most of the stuff on here is opinion, I just found it strange that you should call out his critics for not using any facts and then fail to provide any yourself.

Anyway, all it comes down to is that while I accept that he makes mistakes (and which keeper doesn't) that overall he is an exceptional world level keeper and the only way we'd go from him is down. He is still young for a keeper so surely we shouldn't be giving him such a hard time (as Evertonians seem to specialise in). It would be easier and far more positive to be positive about him and cut him some slack. What we should do is watch what he does not what we feel he does, try to eliminate confirmation bias difficult though it can be. Will Carlo drop him? Will England drop him? That would certainly influence my thinking. Enough said anyway from me, I just hope that we can be fair to him.

Tom Bowers @211: "I have never believed that the game should be played without there being 11 players on each team and have always disagreed with a team playing with 10 men when a player is sent off."

I've had to read that a few times to see if it's me, and I'm convinced otherwise. Is it the sending-off you don't like? Are you saying no player should ever be sent off? Or is it the playing on with 10 men? Are you saying they should stop and walk off? I think the repercussions would be immense if they did...

There is provision in the law for the game to be stopped if more than 4 players from a side are dismissed, as I recall.

Steve Astley @201: "Goalkeeper is the easiest position to fill."

How do reckon that then? What makes it easier than all the others? If it's so easy, why would any team anywhere have any goalkeeper issues?

So many puzzling conclusions to be drawn from such a sweeping 'fact-free' statement. (I think Mason has started something there...)

Brent #235 - Yes, exactly that, we have a goalkeeper, that, even with his shit form for the last few years, has managed to work himself into a position of England No 1.

Can you disagree that if he was transfer listed, he wouldn't attract bids of £60m upwards and fast?

We see him every week and most are fed up with his erratic performances. Whereas, we can take advantage of his, still relatively good reputation off the back of his England form, that would make him an easily saleable player to other clubs.

A lot of our fans continue to buy into the, "He earns us 10-15pts a season" - No chance. In my opinion I think it's quite the opposite.

Not Pickford's fault, but we also don't benefit from a good deputy to challenge him.

Bring in Thomas Strakosha from Lazio and another as a good backup and we WILL reach further up the league.

If Pickford is as bad as you say, why do you think he would attract bids of 㿨M upwards?

Regardless, it wouldn't take long to move him on should the club decide to.

I don't really care how much we would get for him, as long as we can bring in the replacement I mentioned for less.

On the one hand, you think he's crap. On the other hand, you say "Goalkeeper is the easiest position to fill. There are plenty of other options around and can be found at bargain prices" – your words, not mine – so why would another club pay more than a bargain price for him. I assume you don't think you're "㿨m upwards" valuation is a bargain?

Therefore it's a unique situation. He hasn't been performing well for us OR showed signs of improving, there's question marks about his concentration and his reach yet he would still be easily saleable, for a decent fee, to other teams here and abroad who havent necessarily had his domestic performances under a microscope and because of his reputation from the World Cup and subsequent Internationals.

I'm not sure how many times I need to explain what I mean?

"other teams here and abroad who havent necessarily had his domestic performances under a microscope" Really?! They're going to spend "£60m and upwards" without having looked closely at him? So we can see he's crap but other clubs can't?!

You also say get rid "whilst retaining Stekelenburg". But also say "we also don't benefit from a good deputy to challenge him". The arguments are all over the place.

And "transfer fees (and loan fees) have increased dramatically. Goalkeeper is the easiest position to fill. There are plenty of other options around and can be found at bargain prices". Can you not see the contradiction even within those sentences within the same post?!

Let's just put our arm round Pickford and see what happens for the rest of the season. I think we will be disappointed.

If there was a National Waffling Team, I know who would be first pick.

What a strange thing to say. There are definitely other facts!

And how curious to say that statistics are not facts. What do you think they are then if not the collection and interpretation of factual data? I can admit that some stats are more telling and useful than others but to dismiss them entirely as non-factual seem bizarre especially when talking about confirmation bias! Could it be that if you are refusing to consider the statistics/facts against Pickford that it is you who might be guilty of that bias?

It is surely a fact that Pickford has started 26 games in the league for us this season and conceeded 38 goals. It is also a fact that using an equal system of shot and save quantifying that Pickford has saved a significantly smaller percentage of shots than his peers.

People like to stick with a goalkeeper choice and, for that reason, I suspect he may just hang onto the England gloves for a little while longer but, if he keeps performing at an inferior level to the likes of Henderson, then it will only be a matter of time till he is dropped. I hope I am fair to all of our players and am not the booing sort but it helps no-one to close our eyes to clear issues and underperformance.

Have a nice day!

I always have a nice day. Annoying, isn't it?

And luckily for us, any club that's willing to pay anywhere near double what Everton paid is going to be satisfied with that, aren't they?

I mean there's really no need for them to have checked his domestic performances, is there? No, seriously.......

I did miss something out, as you say. This one: "Yet, he is still highly regarded because of his England form - which I think you'll agree, is of no benefit to us". So no benefit to anybody else, then!

Agree, let's put an arm around Picks and hope he pleases us for the rest of the season. He does have faults in him, Steven!

Did I ever tell you about the time...

Unfortunately, the intended recipient of your good deed appears a lost cause.

Now as for the time I capsized a canoe in the crocodile and piranha-infested waters of the mighty Amazon River...Zzzzzzzzzzz!

Go on, it was somebody else's canoe and you did it deliberately, didn't you!

I fought an eel in the Mersey once. At that time you would only see eels, as the quality of Mersey was not strained.

That leaves us with 𧴜 - 𧴰m if to spend on strengthening our team after the 㾶m - 㿀m on the easily obtainable superior replacement for Pickford. Surely that's a sound strategy for improving the team overall without breaking FFP?

After all, other teams don't really scrutinise their transfer targets do they? and don't realise how they've far they've regressed. We Evertonians do, but let's keep that our little secret.

I'm sure there's a flaw in that argument somewhere...?

Next.

And also... just for a bit of light relief and for those commenting on Shilton, and probably more of interest to some of the older supporters, this video may be of interest, from 1973 vs Poland. The Polish keeper, referred to by Brian Clough as a clown, had a great game!

Link

Is it genuine competition for his place? Is it the defenders in front of him? Is it he rarely plays teams of any great standing at international level? Is it the pressure of playing for Everton?

Hmm?

“His performances have been really poor for the last 2 or 3 years.”

Pickford signed in June 2017. Just over 2½ years ago. So, you're saying that, not only has he NEVER played well for us, he was actually shite playing for us BEFORE we signed him. Extraordinary talent.

Just get your head down and cut out the pissing around thinking you some kind of Bobby Moore or your England No 1 spot could be slipping away. It's in your hands... Or maybe not.

I was happy when we signed him.

Have a look at your favourite player, whoever it may be, and count his mistakes per game. Who would you prefer between the sticks?

And every bugger was saying how good our ''early business'' was, having signed Pickford AND Keane so early.

Steven, the hole is deep enough now, put your spade away, there's a good lad.

My over-riding view is that he's an erratic keeper that can make great saves. I prefer solid, reliable, consistent keepers who come and get crosses and dominate their area.

I hope he turns into one. If not, I hope we buy one.

Steven, have a look at this from when we signed him:

Link

What does 70 goals in 38 games mean when you're playing behind a defence as poor as Sunderland's was that season? His form for Sunderland was one of the reasons he was so sought after and why we paid 㿊m for him. Whether he subsequently lived up to expectations is a matter for opinion but, if he was as bad as you say he was, he would never have even played in the World Cup.

I respect your lack of regard for the lad, indeed share some reservations about him, but I fail to understand any of the logic in your arguments.

Replacing a goalie is easy, eh? Well it took Liverpool an awful long to get it right. Man City went through some real duffers and Chelsea seem to think they have wasted upwards of 㿲M on Kepa.

I'll stand by what I say that we won't improve unless we replace him. As Paul says above, he CAN pull off worldies, but he is just too erratic and doesn't command his goal enough for me.

As I said earlier, let's see how he gets on for the rest of the season.

Steven, Mr. Roche is right, if you go any deeper you're gonna hit magma and cause an eruption. Thousands will die. Stop.

Player of the year (voted for by the fans).
Young player of the year (voted for by the fans).
Players' player of the year (voted for by...ehrm...his fellow team mates).

He certainly fooled a lot of people, didn't he?

Who worked that one out!

But whilst you bring it up, looking back, we conceded 58 goals in the League, only topped by 5 other teams that season, 1 of which got relegated (the other 2 conceded less). Got knocked out of the FA Cup at the first time of asking and knocked out of the League Cup on Pickford's return to the 11 against Chelsea.

Good enough? Still, Jordan has 3 trophies in his cabinet to show for it. Next...

Because all of that was exclusively Jordan Pickford's fault, and so out of pity and to make him feel better both the supporters and his fellow professionals decided to vote for him in all three player of the season categories.

Just trying to embrace your (ahem!) school of 'logic' and 'rationale', Steven.

Reached Australia yet..?

Everton need to get a handle on this.

Since the start of 2018, he has committed 8 individual errors that led directly to a goal (the highest in the Premier League) and, as Sam Hoare points out, his expected shot to save ratio is poor compared to peers at the Top 6 clubs.

If I went through the videos of our games from this season and 2018-19, I could also tally up numerous goals that he indirectly contributed to – he is a fantastic instinctive shot-shopper but vulnerable where positional awareness is key, eg, long shots, corners. But he is young and has operated behind a poor defence for the last few seasons.

He will probably come good but he needs proper competition for his place next season. Presently, I don't actually see him as one of our better players.

I state this as fact: the raw data may or may not be fact – especially what happens on a football field where even the base data is the opinion of the observer – not fact – as we all see each event differently. Conclusions from football stats are, at very best, a broad brush indication of possibilities but never in a million years fact – unless you believe opinion is fact. Many do, Sam; I'd hope that you don't.

Yes, it's a fact that Pickford has conceded 38 goals in 26 games but any interpretation of that is meaningless on its own. However, the equal system of shots and saves that you feel shows Pickford to be inferior to his peers doesn't give fact – it gives an opinion based on that data. A barely meaningless and absolutely confirmation biased opinion because all shots aren't equal and the results are heavily biased by poor defences which we certainly have.

Just do a bit of research on whether statistics are facts, they are not, they are at best an observable measure of a numerical fact. You imply that the interpretation of this data is fact. It isn't, I'm sorry.

Southgate should therefore discount analytics provided by the England back room staff on individual errrors that resulted in a goal/ expected shot to save ratios/ goals conceded. I can imagine the conversation "well your wishy-washy shite statistics aren't fact therefore we can discount them; Pickford was picked last time therefore he will be picked forever, because facts are what counts here lads not opinions."

Incomprehensible nonsense but ingenious. I will use it as an explanation to my CFO when I exceed my budget!

One really cannot say the keeper made 3 saves on 6 shots as any indicator of a keeper's quality. I did not see Big Nev's game where he sat against the goalpost at halftime, but I believe he had let in 3 goals at that point. So the question is was he crap or were the shots basically ones that should have resulted in goals?

Pickford is a reactional keeper. This is a different style and positioning and reading of the situation than a proactive keeper. Everton knew this when he was purchased. If it is his style of play one doesn't like then fine. However, if you are judging his abilities, then judge him on how he performs the role of the keeper in the style in which he plays.

A keeper can become comfortable behind even an average defense and be effective. This requires a settled back three or four, however. When Everton decide on the back four and they play together, Pickford will be just fine.

Yann Sommer the goalkeeper for Borussia Mönchengladbach is a very good keeper who until this season played behind an average defense. Part of the system was an expectation that he would face a lot of shots. However, the defenders cut the angles down to minimize as much as possible the shooting lane so he wasn't covering the whole goal.

Give the defense and Pickford time to gel and I beleive you will be happy with Pickford just like Southgate is.

Wow, our best ever goalie Nev thinks Pickford is pretty good. Doesn't he read these columns

Advanced metrics are based on "likelihood," so they're not facts as they've not happened yet.

But from reading your comments at 313 & 318, I would suggest reading up on xG (expected goals) and how it directly correlates to xGA (expected goals against; conceded). They 100% take into consideration all the objections you've brought up; quality of shot, etc. These are data points. The data is derived - literally - from 100,000+ historical stats. In other words, they're projections based entirely on what's happened before in the exact same situations, thousands of times.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsliverpool/jordan-pickford-undeserving-of-condemnation-but-everton-goalkeeper-learning-important-lessons/ar-BBZXY9O?ocid=spartanntp

I saw a great piece with Tom Heaton on BBC this week. They showed a goal and asked him to go through it with a keeper's eye. It was fascinating to hear him explain what he works on in training with the defenders at Villa.

One of his points was that he walks the defenders through exactly where he wants them and the body shape he wanted them to have when facing shots from all angles and distances to help him cover as much of the goal as possible.

He then explains to them why and, in a game situation, if the defenders haven't followed instructions or training, that's when they get both barrels from him.

Is it something any of us can see Jordan doing with our defenders? Or does it come from experience? That level of detail must surely make a difference.

You are right to bring xG into the equation as that is an attempt to put the data into context, but Sam seemed to be quoting from very simple statistics; a save percentage based solely on amount of goals versus amount of shots.

I agree with Alan J Thompson - discussion of the missed save should include an equal amount of criticism for Lucas Digne failing abjectly to get a block in. Pickford still should have made the save though, which is exactly what he has admitted.

Jordan Pickford should do well to listen to the greatest and take it all in.

“Stick what the pundits have said about you up on the wall in the training ground or the dressing room above where you get changed and say ‘today I'm going to prove them wrong.'

“If I worried about what everyone said about me, I wouldn't be here.

“Unfortunately when you play in a position where one mistake can ruin the whole game for you and your team and the fans' weekend that's just the way it is.

“If anybody criticised me and I'd go away and think: 'Have they got a point? Maybe they have, maybe they've not.'

“The best way to respond is to make them eat their words and Jordan can only do that by playing well.”

Pickford is in a unique position at Everton in that he's the club's first established England number one.

That's the standard!

Get paid.