Everton scrape through in extra time

Plenty of insurance and experience on the bench as well. Be a bonus if the likes of Branthwaite, Nkounkou and Simms can get some game time.

Tosun, whatever his shortcomings, is a decent finisher, so with James/Digne level service, I could actually see him bagging a goal.

This team has plenty of quality, we just need Cenk to finish the chances off.

COYBlueboys !

Great set up, great finish.
An added bonus is I took the advice offered by a fellow poster and backed Tosun for first goal.

Gordon a couple of lovely turns, including the ball from Keane that turned his defender before quickly and intelligently playing a perfectly placed and weighted pass for Tosun to score with a classy one-touch finish.

All looking good until the 20 minute mark when, all praise to Rotherham, they were the better team. Seamus excellent in all he is doing. His defensive work. Carrying the ball forward. Supporting the attack. Tom Davies the steadiest of our midfielders. James initially looking good now very peripheral. Same with Iwobi.

Need a second goal to choke off any Rotherham recovery.

Iwobi not involved at all, James has had few options for a forward pass as we seem to be lacking movement again. Olsen our best player so far.

I can see them drawing level if we don't raise our game. Very subdued and many playing at half-speed, mentally and physically.

Garbage should be consigned to the bin.

WTF is going on with our movement up top? Takes Gordon, Davis and Iwobi off (energy) and brings on Sigurdsson and Mina? Seriously???

I like Goddfrey but he's no left back. He can't cross the ball. Why is Nkounkou not getting on? Would have been a great game for him and Kenny.

Seriously lost for words. Those VAR lines fucking do my nut as well. How us that offside? Fuming!!!

Awful performance, but typical of cup matches against "minnows". They are motivated, we clearly are not. It makes a massive difference. Got to hope one of our players has a spark of quality to decide it. The VAR decision on Tosun's second was typical of the meddling the officials love to do.

Embarrassed.

When you fall into apathy and lethargy during a game as we did it's very hard to shake it off and pick up the pace again.

Digne clearly off the pace. He doesn't get beaten for pace as he was today if fully fit. I don't understand why Tom Davies is frequently the player sacrificed when playing better than his midfield partners. The replacements have not improved the team or the performance.

Got to dig deep to get over the line in extra time.

We have been genuinely dominated by a team in the relegation zone of the CHAMPIONSHIP. We have had ONE shot on target in normal time. One. We look completely blunt and disjointed.

We have no obvious shape, or playing style, and seem to be making it up as we go along. We only look like any threat from set pieces. and even that's being kind.

Too many similar players in Gomes, James, Sigurdsson, and Bernard. All of who are clearly decent players, but with only one “marshalled” attacker in front of them they offering little.

Feels like the Koeman “just throw on 4 number 10's, they'll work it out” days all over again!!

Gordon needs to go out on loan, but I fear he's another similar player to the group named above too. Maybe even Iwobi could be considered more of a central playmaker than someone who offers an actual threat.

With Richie misfiring and DCL only human, I'm just praying we do some work in this window and get someone out wide who has pace and scores goals.

Mindset and attitude and today simple 6 yards passes nor reaching and far too much inertia in the team to play free flowing football.

But to have been so out played over 95 minutes is a massive con earn. Did they change the tea bags again at FF or the hotel, whatever it's happening too often.

Let's grind a win out and take stock. Play like this at Wolves and it will be embarrassing.

Just a guess.. but maybe your analysis of his contribution was flawed.

Gave the ball away as much as anybody else in that first half.

,"I don't understand why Tom Davies is frequently the player sacrificed when playing better than his midfield partners"
_____________________

Just a guess.. but maybe your analysis of his contribution was flawed.

Gave the ball away as much as anybody else in that first half.

,,,1,14:13:10,,151.229.153.105,ok,664,01/09/2021 14:13:10,Ciaran,reader,,,no 1120876,40325,toffeeweb,09/01/2021,Mick Roberts,michael_roberts@myself.com,Piss poor all down to management. Koeman and Martinez would not have set the team up this bad. Substitutes were a joke.,piss poor all down to management koemen and Martinez would not have set the team up this bad substitutes a joke,Turned on,michael.kenrick@gmail.com,1,14:15:28,,79.70.93.97,gated,22293,01/09/2021 14:15:28,michael_roberts@myself.com,formatting,,,no 1120877,40325,toffeeweb,09/01/2021,Phil Smith,djsentinelone@gmail.com,"Extra time sparking us into life, it seems. Nkounkou done more already then Digne all game! Baffled why he hasn't had more game time recently. Can he not defend?

We are in the hat.

Move on.

The best thing that can be said of that game is that our name is in the hat for the next round.

On that evidence. No.
Good going forward but poor positional awareness today
He will improve though.

Hopefully people calling for him to start will show a bit of patience

Doucoure again impressive as was Mina and I am still very excited about Nkounkou as a prospect. Digne was obviously finding his fitness. I like the look of the American, Olosunde.

Fuck all then 2 goals created, one disallowed.

Can anybody out there give me one iota of hope for Everton?

We cannot continue to have those in our midfield.

On a bright note Olsen looks a decent keeper.

Performance was lacklustre, though we had our regulation-time winner unfairly scratched off. Poor decision by the VAR official. Thought they faded as they brought off players, replacements didn't have the same impact, whereas our subs were no worse, some better than those replaced. Not sure if Ancelotti fired them up before ET, or it was a case of them running out of steam because we dominated the final 30m and should really have scored a third.

What can be gleaned from this? Reading too much into a cup-tie is a fool's errand. We were sluggish and playing in first gear for most of the match, they raised their game halfway through the first period possibly realizing that they could give us a game. It's small margins of superiority, in absolute terms between EPL and Championship-calibre players. We weren't on it, in general and they were which can equal the classic Cup Upset, or at least a close shave.

Positives are that we were able to get Digne game time and James more than 90m. Tosun got a goal and played pretty well which may tempt a team to come in for him. Ditto Bernard, if we actually want to move him out, as has been reported (though denied by Carlo). Gordon, assist aside, struggled a bit. In fact, Knoukou playing wide left showed more, albeit he was fresh against tiring opposition. He gave us options as he stayed out wide and looked to get into crossing positions and also created extra space in the centre. His passing was a little erratic, however.

Despite a lot of negativity on here pretty much whenever we lose a match, I still feel top 6 is a solid goal. Above that may be a step too far this season, unless we can add a couple of quality signings this month and kick on the second half of the season.

As per usual (and in particular this season) some fans have tunnel vision with respect to us and ignore how inconsistent other teams are.

Those who advocate that this or that player should be chosen ahead of others, should look at today's team and realise that not one of those hoping to earn a regular first-team place did anything to enhance that possibility.

Some of the attitudes on display today were lamentable and some of the players on show today, shouldn't have much of a future at Goodison in the near or long-term.

I remember Gareth Barry, following a game where Everton had dropped points, it was according to Barry due to the team taking their foot off the gas and that is why they failed to win a game that they had dominated for long periods.

This current Everton team doesn't even know how to put their foot on the gas and that's a concern.

As many have said the object of today was to get through to the next round and that's been achieved.

Or do you mean no goalkeeper?

- without DCL and Richarlison we don't really pose any threat

- without Allan and Doucoure midfield doesn't dominate inferior opposition

- Tosun is a good finisher but really poor up front on his own (I was hoping to see him and Simms together for at least 20 minutes)

Things we learned:

- Gordon probably needs a loan

- Nkounkou is ready but maybe better as an option at LW or LWB

But however frustrating it's a game of results and we're through to the next round. So important to win a cup to change the mentality of the club.

I'm not going to single out individuals or "blame" players. That was a poor team performance and the players have to collectively take responsibility. Some of those had a chance today to stake their claim, which many have been calling for, so I watched with interest.

I think it highlights that we have improved as a team but as a squad, we still lack depth and quality. Work in progress.

But, you always get these type of fixtures in the 3rd round. This year we didn't have a Shrewsbury moment, we are in the draw for the next round.

I unusually went on the live forum today, so apologies for repeating myself. Positives; we're in the next round. Doucoure made a difference when he came on as he closed the gap between midfield and the front line. Mina made me feel way more comfortable, both in terms of his defensive presence and calmness on the ball. Nkounkou looked good - we should use him more.

I'm not going to dissect negatives as we could be here all night. Collectively a poor team performance but does expose the limitations of this squad outside of the probable first 11.

Out thought, out passed and with some better finishing, it could have been over at a Half time.

So, to regroup and build on, but not enough heart, leadership on the pitch and only late when Rotherham tired, did. Everton look reasonably happy.

Too many, players, are playing like strangers, and I don't see Marcel Brands, having any easy sales with the Everton squad players today whom mainly were fringe players.

Happy we won, but a long way to with the rebuilding. Praying that 5heres a mindset change v Wolves and I'm looking forward, optimistically to the game (. I've not had a beer yet).

All stay safe and well, and enjoy this weekend.

Here's to a good home draw for Everton, in The 4th round.

Gillingham in the fourth round on the way to our cup triumph in 1984 also posed Everton major problems until finally, Everton's class told in the third game at Priestfield.

It isn't necessary to play well in the FA Cup to win it, but it would be nice every now and again to progress without having kittens.

Rodriguez, i'm not sure whether he is more suited to coming of the bench and giving a strong with 20-30 minute cameo performance, problem is he is the only creativity we have in that midfield, until we bring in better does he start the entire 90 but risk him being injured more often?

In fairness I think its the Only thing to be said. We live to fight another day. The Wembley dream is still alive.

I never worry too much how we get through earlier rounds. I still remember Dublin. Not many would have given us a prayer of going on to lift the ECWC after those matches,"The best thing that can be said about that game is our name is in the hat for the next round"

In fairness I think its the Only thing to be said. We live to fight another day. The Wembley dream is still alive.

I never worry too much how we get through earlier rounds. I still remember Dublin. Not many would have given us a prayer of going on to lift the ECWC after those matches,,,1,15:27:30,,90.208.49.49,ok,13643,01/09/2021 15:27:30,dashin@cheerful.com,reader,,,no 1120913,40324,toffeeweb,09/01/2021,James Newcombe,jnewco81@gmail.com,"Frankly i'd be worried if he wasn't scoring in that poor league, surrounded by the talent at PSG. Get rid.

Tosun definitely not good enough long term but I thought he did ok today.
Two good finishes and a very clever run to take the centre half away leaving the space for Dukes goal

Now, armed with my morning coffee and Michael's commentary, I can skip through the replay and just hit the high points. Seems like there weren't many!

@Tony, I think we both agreed yesterday that leaving DCL out was a concern. I wasn't being negative but we looked light in terms of attacking options and lets be honest, Tosun is a different player who lacks mobility.

@Darren. Exactly. The important thing in Cup competitions is to get to the next round, especially in the early rounds when you have these "banana skins". Remember Dublin well. 1-0 on aggregate. Through to the next round and won the trophy.

I will mention VAR though. Totally killing the game as a spectacle. I know we have benefitted this season most notably against RS, but that doesn't make it right. Just how inept can these people be who make these decisions?? What happened to clear and obvious error and gaining an advantage? I will never be on board with that farce that is VAR

Just a thought - remember we signed this young Irish kid a few years ago who was supposed to be a full back. Struggled in his debut, not helped by the fact he played on the other wing and against a hot Portuguese side. But for a few years after he played more right sided midfielder until he worked out how to be a defender first.

Is this the route for Nkounkou - and maybe a loan to Blackpool. Did Seamus no harm.

Like the look of Nkounkou Phil. If we're not going to use him more (and I think we will), then maybe yes, send him out on loan.

Graham, I think we're all frustrated with the performance, but it's not a game I will personally over analyse. It's the FA Cup 3rd round and whilst, yes, I agree, it exposes the limitations of our squad, we got through it and we are in the next round.

Much more important game coming up on Tuesday. Win that and we are sitting in a very, very good position league wise.

Our bench was light on much-needed attacking options, but one progressive off-the-ball run by Doucoure - and the vision and precision from James - got us over the line against a spirited Rotherham side who ran out of gas in extra time.

Anthony Gordon is a long way short of where I hoped he would be by now - and not so much in terms of ability, I mean in terms of showing the sort of focus, strength and determination it will require for him to become a first-team regular. It is a key transition factor; some players just inherently have it (Rooney, Sterling, Owen, etc) - regardless of size. Others take years to learn how not to get bullied by top players, so I think Gordon needs to go out on loan and start learning the hard yards now.

Minutes for James was important and maybe Cenk has put himself in the shop window with some smart finishing.

Defensively there is real strength back there with Godfrey, Seamus, Holgate, Keane, Mina, Digne to choose from with Branthwaite and Nkounkou developing

The gap between defence and midfield is far too wide and better teams will destroy with their movement between the lines. Their us so much basic stuff wrong and you could hear Ancelotti constantly shouting, drive forward to the centr halves, switch play switch play to the midfielders and all to no avail as after 3-4 small passes we lose it.

As far as I'm concerned Davies shouldn't ever play that cover role, the pick up the ball role, as he's far too laboured, slow, and his passing at times is awful. Gomes next to him has run out of legs, he's outsmarted, outpaced, and only his physical strength saves him at times. You cannot play those two together ever again, and especially when you've got No tackle, No pace, Rodriquez with them. Totally overrun again. Iowbi hasn't a clue where to play when Rodriquez is on, is he a midfielder, is he our wingman, is he right or left, set up on right but then Rodriquez drifts over there to splay his 50yd passes to our left hand side.

As you get the drift, our back ups our poor, our shape is non existent, our tactics are non existent our basics are non existent.

Gordon looked useful for 15 mins and clearly then just fell away to become a passenger. It could be the shape is wrong for him but he needs to get involved rather than just standing out wide like a lamppost.

Sorry but there are too many players who are clearly not good enough at all, Davies, Gomes, Bernard, Gordon, Delph, a number who can be regarded as back ups only, Coleman, Iwobi, Tosun, which shows how much time Ancelotti needs to turn us round, at least another 2-3 transfer windows.
And last point Ancelotti quickly needs to show us that he can at least produce a team which can compete regularly, ok lose the old one badly, but can immediately bounce back, not have a West Ham performance repeated again a week later against a team 37 places lower in the league system.

Some discussion of Carlo's subs above, but I liked them. Gordon was brilliant for ten minutes and then vanished, and lazily failed to track Olosunde on their goal. He and Iwobi both deserved to come off, and Bernard and Doucoure improved things immediately. So did Nkounkou when he came on.

Phil #97, I like your idea. A university-level course in defensive positioning would be great for Nkounkou, and he's not going to get it at Goodison. A January loan to a Championship club in need -- like Rotherham -- might be just the ticket.

In sum, I'm with Darren. All that matters is getting through these early rounds. As long as Rotherham didn't turn out to be another Port Vale or Shrewsbury, all is well.

US notes: It was a good day for Yanks named Matthew. Delighted to see young Olosunde playing so well. That was his first professional goal -- certainly took it with poise. He was released by Manchester United in 2019 but seems to still have fine potential at 22. His pace is breathtaking. Not yet fully capped by the US.

And JJK's old mates at Schalke finally won today after 30 straight games of futility -- one shy of the Bundesliga record -- on a hat trick, his first three career goals, by American teenager Matthew Hoppe.

VAR just calls it based on the rule and probably more accurately than inadequate officials. How many times have we and others been hurt by wrong human error decisions?

It works it Rugby and has done for years. I personally don't blame the technology, I blame the rule, particularly with regards to offside. It is ridiculous that a player that effectively level is offside by a loose thread on the shirt. But that is not VAR's fault.

What happened to the "daylight" rule by the way. Didn't we introduce that a few years back to give advantage to the attacker?

That was a dreadful performance.

I for one focus more on performance than results more than most. I was a relatively solitary figure after the Burnley draw because I saw a decent performance.

I think what most are saying is that this is the 3rd round of the FA Cup. These types of games are obviously not uncommon at this stage of this competition. It's what this round of the FA Cup is famous for.

So yes, on this particular occasion, in this competition and in this specific round, it's all about the result.

I'm a purist, but I also know the FA Cup 3rd round. As I'm sure do you.

I personally think Nkounkou will be better suited playing high on the left, rather than at left back.

This early into the project results are more important than entertainment.
The entertainment will come as we progresss.

If we are going to play 3 at the back, I much prefer that than a 3-4-3, which in my opinion just exposes the midfield and subsequently the defence.

On to Wolves and surely its Holgate, Mina, keane and Godfrey.
Midfield of James, Doucoure, Davies, Richarlision with Siggy behind Dom. Digne could play of course but maybe he can work on his fitness as a sub in the last 20 minutes. Big couple of weeks coming up which could very well show what we are really playing for this season.

You're probably right that the rules and inept officials are to blame but I'm just not a fan of technology like this in football. I follow rugby and cricket and it works well in those sports, but also in those sports they can sustain a break in play without losing momentum, in football I don't think thats the case. Football is all about momentum for me and when you have a delay of 4 or 5mins while VAR pontificates, then you lose all momentum, not to mention killing the atmosphere from the spectators. No just not a fan at all. Maybe, if and when the FA can finally get its arse into gear and recognise that they're interpreting it totally wrong, I may be converted, but not now as it is.

The midfield doesn't function well without Allan, take Doucoure out of it and it all falls to pieces. I think we have to find back up for Allan, a younger quality player, so we remain strong when he is out.

Also Cenk is no Marco Van Basten, but he took his goal very well and was 2mm offside from another decent finish too. The lad knuckled down and did his job as best he could. He would be a very good buy for Palace or WBA, we should tell them to get the cheque book out for once, or to do one.

It does away with the debate. If it rids of those Clive Thomas 1977 incompetent decisions, Don Hutchinson's "goal" and Lescott being wrestled to the ground by Carra-lah.

In most circumstances the game has stopped anyway as there has been a goal or penalty. Or the game has been allowed to flow until the next natural stop and called back.

I would rather get decisions right most of the time rather than the injustice of the past - and I include when that has gone our way but more often than not it hasn't.

The pundits don't like it as it does them out of a job, but it is calling it correct because you can't hide behind it like incompetent officials who don't have to answer. Like I say, change the rules not the technology.

Goal line technology is fantastic. Without it, we arguably stayed up 1998. That's a benefit of a wrong decision but doesn't make it right.

Everything seems so one paced with us all over the pitch! We need pace as there's simply no substitute for it!

On the match itself I think Doucoure made all the difference when he came on as all of a sudden we had a presence in midfield.
I think Tosun has fond enough today to earn a move to a struggling premier league team and we might even get a fee!?

On a positive when we lacked leadership today Doucoure came on and saved the game for us not just with his goal but his defensive work rate and took the game by the scruff of the neck.

Gordon did well for the opening fifteen minutes and was impressing me but was dross afterwards with the rest.

Nkounkou did well coming off the bench too especially as Digne was taught a lesson today by Rotherhams right back.

Iwobi looked like Iwobi of old and Bernard gives it away too often. We need to be quicker and more pro-active in thinking ahead, we're too static, with big gaps. How often do we see one-touch stuff from Everton making space to move into.

I like Carlo's purchases they're better than what we had: Allan, Doucouré, Rodriguez, and Godfrey has pace and is a talker. It's the benchmark I'm using to measure our progress and for me it's irrefutable evidence that we're in good hands.

Agree about the requirements for pace.

Davies was not the player who didnt track the run, that was Gordon.
Tom didn't react quickly enough after he headed the ball.

Nkounkou showed today he has a lot to learn in his positional play.
Hes a defender first and foremost.
Looks good going forward but needs to learn the position defensively.
I am sure he will develop into a good player.

At the same time, protecting the defence.

The job of a midfielder, to protect the defence and support the attack.

Until Doucoure came on, our midfield was sat literally on top of the centre backs offering little in terms of options or support to the attack and in fairness doing little to protect the defence.

Notice how James suddenly had more space and options? Because Doucoure was making runs and opening space.

Great credit to them for their lack of respect and lack of fear with hard work. Everything I expect Everton to be.

As said above the early rounds are about getting through and we done that. Now we can look and see what can we do better? Why did we make hard work of another game?

Lets hope form is about to go up a level. Tuesday is a much bigger game.

Are you seriously suggesting playing Richarlison in the Number 10 role? Give me strength.

We're in the hat. Move on. One more game closer to Allan being back.

And can we put Sigurdsson at the traffic lights by the Liver Building? Someone is needed there to point the traffic in the right direction...

Oh, and can we send Mick Bernard's love child, Bernard, back to Brazil?

A fortune spent and we've gone backwards, I fucken despair.

Olsen looks a safe bet to play in the cup games. I would not be unhappy to see him play in more league games but barring injury to, or suspension of, the regular incumbent that is clearly not going to happen.

Today's performance will have served as further evidence, if it were needed, that Ancelotti requires more signings for the club to sustain a challenge for the top six and pursue silverware.

Defensively we generally look solid and have players with genuine promise. The major issues we have relate to our attacking midfield play which is far too pedestrian and lacks a goal threat to trouble the top sides. Unless we can bring in players who can address those issues this month, we should wait until the summer. There is no point in chasing one-paced, peripheral contributors who flit in and out of matches. We already have those in abundance.

All those bemoaning how shite the players are may well be correct but there is a reason we are a top table side.

Every team is shite!

I'm watching a pathetic match atm between Arsenal and Newcastle — if you want players that can't pass, can't control a ball, won't run, scuff shots, lack imagination and motivation, then get on down to the BBC right now.

Or will you say again that Carlo needs another six transfer windows to get this load of shite playing well enough to get into Europe?

You couldn't make it up! Lol 😆😆🤣

Are you yourself not a Toffee Webber? Anyway George shortly after 3 pm I posted:

It was a pretty awful performance [By Everton] and when you allow a Championship side to be dominant and in all fairness look the better side, you have a major problem.

Not the only time Everton has won when they haven't been the best team.

Just as we have been on the losing side when we've been the better team.

That's football sometimes. In fact most times.

A game can look that way when one team has only the intention to not lose and the other hasn't the skill to do anything about it, such as Arsenal vs Newcastle United.

I say the opposite – that all teams in the Premier League are pretty good and that they are closer in ability now than the top flight has ever been. All teams are alternating between looking good and looking at times awful. That is because, in every game, each side can only play as well as the other side let it.

Liverpool at times have looked shocking this season, is that because they are rubbish? Not a bit, they are still in the top two sides but other sides are playing them much better and many sides can now afford to buy players to strengthen the side, many are better than us at this.

I've watched every game this season almost and I reckon that the overall standard is amazing.

You make a very valid point, but I don't think anybody would be surprised by the performance.

We have played about two hours of decent football in the past year. We are not set up to entertain. People say the players are not good enough, but every single one of our players (including the bench) would walk into this Rotherham team, choc-full of lower-league journeymen.

Evertonians seem to be a lot easier to please than they were in the past and that, for me, is one of the reasons our entertainment value will not be going through the roof in the foreseeable.

The way I see it, we either win ugly, draw ugly, or lose ugly. Given those three choices, I guess we have no alternative but to take the ugly win and move on.

That was me earlier on George to back up Patrick. Some more colourful than others. We all have collectively acknowledged we played poorly today. I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise and believe me, many of us on here have differences of opinion.

Today is probably where I've seen the vast majority in unified agreement. We were terrible for most of that but got the result. That's football sometimes. God we lived it in the Moyes years.

That's cup football! Lower league teams tend to play above themselves against superior teams. We made hard work of it today but 4th round here we come. We did not scrape through. We had chances to put another 2 goals on that scoreline.

As for pace in the team. A problem for the past 20 years. Pace down the flanks opens teams up and scares defenders. Hopefully our manager can see this.

When Doucouré and Allan are fit, we look decent, the rest are dreadful in midfield.

You have our defenders holding their hands in despair, at the lack of midfielders willing to take a pass, when they do, it comes straight back to the same defender.

Until we get rid of Davies, Sigurdsson and Gomes, we will continue to struggle to boss games.

Well played Rotherham. You almost had your day. We got the result and we're in the next round.

We played okay for less than 15 minutes in the first half.

Gordon, did pretty much what I see him do every time he plays ie started quite well, made a lovely pass for the goal and one excellent run, then nothing for the rest of the time on the pitch. He's clearly a clever technical player. Seems like a loan where he actually plays every week would help decide if he can be more than the massive hype that surrounds him. Hope he proves us cynics wrong.

Nkounkou looks a really interesting option on the left. Surely worth keeping in the squad now and giving time on the bench as he can come on and shore up, or rampage forward for twenty mins. And he might be better than that, who knows.

Davies and Gomes should never find themselves, running or actually not, centre midfield. Gomes has to pick up quickly now, he's had a period of grace after that disgusting bit of afters from Son, but honestly if you'd not seen him when he first arrived you'd be screaming for him to be benched. Or worse. He's in a bad place and even with acres of space he and Davies allowed Rotherham the platform to pressure the back four.

Davies? All been said, ran round like he was playing in another jumpers-for-goal - posts game in the street, cost us a goal, and nothing.

The back four were shaky at times but Olsen continues to suggest he's better than any No 2 keeper we've had for ages.

Tosun? Minus VAR, he'd have had a couple of very decent finishes but let's hope he gets his move now, decent guy I think as can be seen from how made up his team mates were when he scored.

Digne will hopefully be okay for Wolves and better for that runout. James? Not great was he until last 20 minutes and bit of extra time where his passing was a factor in us getting a bit of a grip of the game.

All in all lots of changes and virtually strongest team Allan apart, for next weeks mid week effort.

At least we are in the hat for round 4

George @ 159, we all know what you mean. The current version of Everton is miles off where we want it to be. But the last 20 years also tell us the teams loaded with excellent attacking talent win games in style. We aren't.

Recruitment this summer has made us much stronger. I like all the new players. If we can keep our best and add more quality we'll win these games pretty.

I'd say Digne and Gordon, looked to be in the first bracket today, Gomes, Davies and Tosun, were in the second bracket, and I'd say the whole of our midfield and Tosun, never worked hard enough today, although Rodriguez, tried to get on the ball, but he needs people running ahead of him?

I'd love to get rid of Bernard and Tosun, and bring in Zaha, and think Gordon needs a loan to go and play some real competitive football.

An injury to Lewin, and we can only play Richarlison up front, (Tosun is simply not good enough, imo) but if this happens who have we got to play wide?

We could play wingbacks, and squeeze higher up the pitch with the pace of Godfrey and Holgate, because this has got to be our long term aim?

People praise Michael Keane, that's understandable because he's definitely improved, but how lucky was he when Hurst, just failed to get on the end of the cross of the game, even if it was good centre forward play

Would certainly not entertain £31 Million.

I blame Carlo for todays performance. Shape was just bizarre to say the least.

Where and who is he?

He's inherited a disjointed squad, half of whom wont be here in 18 months.

So. Hes started from a weak position.
Despite this he has us 4 points behind the league leaders, and with us having a game in hand.

Patience my fellow blues, patience

31 million !!! I don't think so let's start talking at 50m and we will go down to 45m at a push!!

Iwobi cost 35m
Bolasie aged 28 cost 28m
Brewster 24m

Play hard ball !!

My wife really can't understand it anymore, even though she's put up with this for many a long year. I thought we had this unwritten agreement that she could spend endless hours (not to mention the countless shekels) on her dressage horse if she left me alone to do this shit. But I'm seriously thinking she's now got the better side of the deal.

It just seems so much worse at the moment. And I'm trying desperately to find another way of not saying "Well, that was yet another pile of absolute shite!" At least you expect it from a horse.

Dressage horse? Not many of them left round here, but I used to like them in the Olympics. Lucinda A Posteriori, was it?

Maybe we can get 24m for Gordon now before we sell him for £2m (Robinson), or for an undisclosed fee (Dowell).

Regroup, Kama, Kama... As like.. there is with Everton, but we are in the 4th round draw.

On the footballing technical side and technique, I still don't know why Bernard went for the reverse hit, instead of smashing the ball straight, with his chance that hit the post in Extra time.

But let's hope for a dirty dozen, whom are gonna be well stokered up for Wolves.

This a test and then Villa, permitting and also the potential of Villa playing, is gonna be interesting, based on the EPL and FA approach to COViD19.

All stay safe and well, and here's to Marine tomorrow, and hopefully can sort out Spurs.

I just wish we could beat a team comprehensively and look good doing it.

Somehow everything went pear shaped after we scored and suddenly they looked like the Prem. outfit. The intensity just disappeared and that is something only Carlo can deal with.
If it is because some players have the wrong attitude or they just are not good enough then he has to get it sorted if he wants Everton to hang in at the top.

They (and they are not alone) give the ball away too often. Their area of the pitch is vital for keeping play going and picking passes that make us keep our shape.

I fail to see how we can expect exciting football when so many of us point out players losing possession or putting in performances that are not good enough.

15 mins in and nobody is moaning about the lack of excitement or quality. Then 3 or 4 players switch off and Rotherham grow in confidence all of a sudden our style of play needs checking.

Those players were subbed. Some were given a chance and again didn't take it. Some coming back from injury didn't do too well either.

There is room for improvement everywhere but central midfield is an issue we need to fix quickly with something dynamic.

Drive and exploit, or go sideways? I'm well aware that possession is nine tenths of the law, but from the middle of the pitch I love to see running and playing forward.

I read that. You painted pictures in my head there.
Get a pacy, solid,mobile back four behind that set up and we are in business.

Mark,

Your right, not all the top ten.
Maybe Villas and Southamptons, I would swap him for any of the others.
In my opinion Mina and Keane are the complete opposite of the type of defender I mentioned in my reply to Tony.
I agree on the other players you mention

Today showed what we all know, the squad depth and quality isn't great. Those who we want to be great and good enough don't seem to be taking the chance to show the doubters that they are.

And this is on a day when I for one am not pointing fingers or blaming any individual players; it was a poor team performance. Collectively.

Repeating myself, Olsen looked good, not for the first time. Doucoure made a difference and Mina added assurance.

But this was the FA Cup 3rd round. A notoriously dodgy weekend where scalps are taken. We aren't one of them.

To use an earlier example, we don't recite the fact we stumbled over the line against University College Dublin in 1984. We talk about Rapid Vienna and Rotterdam in 1985.

Not only does it press the opposition, it supports the attack and gives other midfielders options.

We lack options for quality if he doesn't play and we could still do with the quality when he is in the side.

The last times we saw him he was basically doing everything in midfield and Doucoure has had his best games without Allan.

In fact the more I type the more I feel it need addressing quickly. No top side is successful without top midfielders.

You're point to Tony A is bang on Danny. Midfielders running beyond the attackers is essential.

You and Lyndon provide a forum for discussion and debate that is greatly appreciated.

And we all despair as much as we rejoice when we come on here to comment!!

My wife now has a new phrase: "are you ToffeeWebbing"!!

This. Games are won and lost in midfield. That's where you control the game.

Surely now Nkounkou must get a decent run in the side. His pace alone put teams on the back foot. Play the kid in midfield You must surely a better option than Tom Davies. Delph, Sigurdsson, Bernard etc. Left side of midfield I would stick him in there.

So Everton are through to the 4th round of the soulless FA Cup. All football is soulless these days. Covid has sucked out the last drops of passion and energy from a game that was already dying due to greedy and disconnected players. Everton we once knew might never come back. A win a loss a draw does it really matter any more with no fans to see it.

Poor non-league Chorley greatest day in their history beating Derby and no fucker got to see it. Football today is fast losing its apoeal. The game was getting away from the common man due to greed now due to Covid the common man is starting to not give a fuck.

Everton annoy us all yet we still go back for more. Maybe its a blessing our fans are locked out. The last few games have been diabolical. Rotherham deserved more today but you never get what gou deserve in this game. Roll on Wolverhampton (takes a big gulp).

For years and years I'm sure players and agents who've given up on ever signing for a trophy-winning club have rubbed their sticky hands together whenever the good ship Everton comes a-calling for them.

Talk the talk, pass the medical (and that must be a cinch at Everton), get a four year minimum contract on more money than you've ever dreamed of, and you're in the most fabulous position your talent will ever get you, so ride out the contract, fuck the fans and fuck the club.

Finch Farm, with its coterie of comfortable Kenwright appointed ex-players, breeds this state of mind, despite the endless drivel they spout to the media. Rooney aside, and maybe Lescott, which of our former players has ever been signed by a more successful club and shown their worth?

Arteta? Ask an Arsenal fan - to them he was bog-standard.
Pienaar? You're having a laff, and yet these two are revered on TW, with other not-bad-at-best players.

It's bizarre, and yet Moshiri walks in and relies on the same owd template that reduced us to perennial also-rans ever since the EPL began before spending all but half a £billion on the square root of fuck all in terms of heart, talent, pace and ambition, right throughout the club!

World-wide we're seen as a soft touch club that pays mega-wages for next to nowt, and you can guarantee that maybe with about half a dozen exceptions those working at USMFF are in no mood to win trophies, the rewards for which might just allow the club to sign better people who might just cost the many USMFF malingers their job.

Happy fucking New Year by the way!

Imagine Richarlison, Rodriguez and Zaha, playing just behind Lewin, and think about the damage they could do? I'm on a two man mission to get Wilfred Zaha to Everton, after agreeing with John Skelly on another thread!!

Keane should always be a standout midfielder because he demanded more from team mates an stayed hungry after success.

Allan has some of Keanes traits, you can see him trying to push us forward when we need it for example but people forget how good a footballer Roy Keane was and his partnership with Scholes was golden.

The least we can accept is desire. Remember our dogs of war. Full of desire to win and not be laughed off the park. Add quality to a player full of desire and you have a better chance.

And although it kills me the other lot have a very good midfield. They all look for goal if its there and give the attack all the back up they need to give them substance.

Where is the substance in Gomes?

So contradicting myself. Having said football is won and lost, in my opinion, the current Liverpool team hasn't relied on a midfield. They go very quickly from their full backs to their forward line. I'm not saying their midfield isn't good, but it hasn't been as important to them as other successful teams if that makes sense?

I don't think their midfield is that great, but I'm with you on the desire to win.

That's what I like in Allan. Constantly dictating and shouting. A captain without an armband.

Gomes. I'm with you. So frustrating. There is clearly a footballer in there. You don't get to Barcelona or Everton (yes I still believe!!) if you are not talented. But talent alone doesn't cut it. I get it that the lad has had a terrible injury to overcome and anyone who has played the game will understand that, but he is too pedestrian for me.

Maybe 2 years ago we saw him as an improvement on what we had and our great hope. Now we have Allan and Doucoure he is second string. Hopefully we can improve on Allan and Doucoure or at least complement them with equals.

We have hopefully learned a lesson or two.
ONE: I posted before the game that whereas we could put out 2 equally good back fours and have a couple of good keepers, up front we have nobody to replace DCL and Richarlison.
TWO: We have plenty of options in the number 10 role, but they all lack pace, so we must play midfielders who can run and pass alongside them. Leaving out Doucoure when Allan is injured makes no sense at all.
THREE: 5 substitutes allowed so if your stars want a rest play them. Get 3-0 up and then bring the 2nd string on.

Finally. I'm reminded of an interview Ian Holloway gave a few years ago after his side scraped a win in a pretty poor performance. I believe its called 'winning ugly'.
He told the reporter, 'football matches are like going out with the lads on a Saturday night. Sometimes you pull a really good looking girl. Other nights you pull and she isn't much of a looker. But you still got her in the taxi.'
Today's game may have been a real 3 bagger. But there's still round four.

They're still in big trouble but my Everton in the next round of the FA Cup and my German blues finally showing a glimmer of hope sees me go to bed happy tonight!

If that turns out to be true he has to go.
He is in the wrong city for that.

They are the facts as I understand them - I'm willing to give the player the benefit of the doubt, some won't be.

As I always suspected Tosun is much better when there is good final third play around him. Under Silva he was starved of it and had to play a holding Centre forward role to be fed off. which he was never suited to. Now with James and a emerging Gordon he looks like a striker. He would never get such final third passes from Richarlison. Tosun would be better with another attacker , rather than on his own.

As a striker with final third support he has a bigger range of skills than Calvert Lewin. All a bit too late in his contract though.

Tosun said he was pointing up to the stand and the original social media complainant has now accepted that and apologized. (Fake news).

Jerome at least you have given me a laugh today."As a striker with final third support he has a bigger range of skills than Calvert Lewin". We see Tosun up against Premier ship defenders and the only range of skills he shows are the ability to walk on and off the pitch.

I bet Cenk was regretting having the rug transplant what with a wayward tuft clearly being spotted by VAR.

I have this dream where Gbamin actually gets fit and plays well enough for Allan and Doucoure to get further forward and sideways passing becomes a distant memory. Then again I have a similar one about winning the lottery and buying an Aston Martin

Yes he scored an important goal but his movement and linkup play was absent throughout the game and against a premiership defense he wouldnt have got near that ball to score.

He has never got support and when He has come on, Everton are in set up shop more and a ball in the final third is a rarity. This is only the second time he has plaher with James is on the field. Getting a final third pass from Soggy, Bernard, Gomes, Davies and Richarlison is like hen's teeth.

Jason#231

That is a very valid question.

Thats my point Jerome.
If you watch his game he rarely runs into open space and has very sluggish movement so there is no pass available to the MF playmakers except sideways.

Although I do agree until we get someone like Saha I think we suit 4-4-2 better with Richy and DCL up front.

A work in progress? Hopefully, but we should have players capable of beating lower grade teams and as the old adage reminds us, for skill to beat determination there must be at least equal effort.

We have 11 players who, if fit, can match many premier league teams. Beyond that, we have a group of promising youngsters and a set of 6-8 senior pros who are simply not good enough. We need a pacy and energetic defensive midfielder and attacker right now if we can get them in this transfer window.

We could get a player from abroad, either as a loan or permanent, only to find he is not suited to the Prem, how many times has that happened, not only with us but other clubs too, but it could also go the other way. Yes I would vote for that deal with Josh King, but I think we definitely need another midfielder and a RB as a matter of priority before the window closes. Of course we need to shed a few too, Bolasie, Tosun, and Besic just to mention three, and a few more lurking in the shadows.

Kevin, I don't think any of us are jumping for joy from yesterday's performance, but we are through to the next round. In fairness to Carlo, okay he picks the team, but I doubt whether his remit was go out and play crap. Remember most of the players yesterday, he inherited, some returning from injury, and others below par. I say give him time and a couple of windows we will be a different animal altogether.

The Josh King rumour is interesting and if true he would certainly add speed as an option to DCL.

As I have written here before there is a huge difference between winning and losing on here. Yesterday's main conclusions seem to be our name is in the Rd4 hat and that's all that matters. Because we scraped a win AT HOME against a team really struggling at the bottom of the league below us, many of us think ahh let's not complain too much how the performance was.
Had Doucoure not made that run, had Carlo taken off the terrible lazy James or had the shot hit the post as it was one of those days how would most on here be reacting?
Many would want Carlo out, many saying our season is over, many saying Brands hasn't a clue.
Many saying Bill is too blame for taking this club backwards.

My point is, we as fans tend to love complaining and finding fault with everything. We overreact when we lose and also when we win.
So it's nice to read sensible balanced posts about how we played and careful analysis of each player rather than sack the boss and throw all the toys out of the pram. Don't forget how we were playing first five or do games with our full squad.
Now with Holgate and Godfrey settled in we have a very solid defence which has been responsible for keeping us top 6 in recent weeks.

I am that used to people on here jumping on the Blue's Manager Inquisition Wagon, with all types of mediaeval torture equipment at the ready to apply at the slightest blip.

Hope to see a giant killing later, well a mini giant killing too before that (Tranmere) I will be rooting for Marine against Spuds, I would just love it if they pulled that off, if just to see the look on Mourinho's face and his jolly boys. The revenue from this tie alone will be a life-saver for Marine, long may it continue.

Very clever Kevin! Rock bottom? In my life time I choose between the feeling of despair after losing 5-0 at Goodison to Liverpool and the equal feeling of disbelief going into the Wimbledon match in 1994 knowing that even if we won, we could be relegated. I can't describe how it felt at half time when we were 2-0 down.

That is rock bottom.

Rock bottom is needing to win on the last day of the season to stay up, winning a penalty which no one wants to take and the only reason Graham Stuart stepped up was because Nev strode forward to say I'll take it if none of you pussies will. Playing worse football than we play now, or less effective anyway. Going out to Shrewsbury, tranmere (3-0 at home), Bradford, Reading were far closer to rock bottom than yesterday and sitting so close to the top 4.

Honestly think some of you need your heads checking. It isn't pretty, we aren't playing well, frustrating but at least we've seen some blooming wins this year. We've got some quality at long last and injuries aside I think we'd be even higher in the league.

Do we have to get better? Yes. At least we are working off a solid base at the moment with important players coming back from injury. Should be a little positive at least.

Ps - what Dan Nulty said!

I would have taken 2-1 after extra time before the game and happy to take it now. Yes, we have played far better but we won and that is all that matters in a cup game.

Whilst this team looks decent on paper it was always going to struggle to play well together. It wasn't helped by scoring so early as complacency set in. That said apart from that twenty minute spell in the first half they didn't really threaten our goal and we could certainly have scored a few more. The main thing when fielding a weakened team is to win which we did. Wolves will be a stern test and we might be pleased that we gave game time to the guys returning from injury as they all looked in need of it.
On the bright side Olsen looks a decent keeper and I agree with Phil Roberts that maybe Nkounkou could be moved further forward whilst he develops. Phil mentions Seamus doing this and Gareth Bale also comes to mind as someone who started out at full back and found his feet playing further forward. Nkounkou looks good to me, he walks and runs like an athlete and looks physically robust. Well worth a go ahead of Digne and move Richi to the right with James more central.

I agree.
It is that bad I am considering giving my ST up.
Win the game in hand and go one point behind the league leaders?

Nowhere near good enough

I think someone asked earlier about the draw. Here's a cut from the FA Website:

There will be a double draw in the Emirates FA Cup next week, with both the fourth and fifth round proper draws being made on Monday 11 January.

Hosted by Reshmin Chowdhury and conducted by Peter Crouch, both draws will be made back-to-back to aid with fixture scheduling and will form part of BT Sport 1's pre-match coverage of the third round tie between Stockport County and West Ham United.

We are number 10. Liverpool 23.

I really don't understand what has happened to this team that started the season playing exciting attacking football and scoring goals for fun, to a team that seems bereft of any attacking ability. We seem to have become frightened to push men forward even when playing lowly opposition like Rotherham. I think maybe it was a good thing for the players that there wasn't a crowd there yesterday as I think most would have got dogs abuse for their display yesterday.

I am a big fan of Carlo but the buck always stops with the manager and the style of football we are playing at present is not acceptable. I realize we are missing a couple of key players but we should still be showing greater ambition than we currently show. The past few weeks we have played more like Herraras 1960s Inter were score 1 and shut up shop was their DNA. Carlo neds to get us back to the style we showed at the beginning of the season and play with a lot more attacking intent.

Simple and succinct.

I agree when we have our first choice fit we look a better side, so do I take it that you think if we have 1 or 2 of the first choice missing then we will massively under perform. Because if that's the case then I don't know how we possibly rectify that problem with out spending massively to improve the squad. The problem there is we are very close to our FFP limits, so that will limit how we improve the squad as only selling Kean would bring any real money in.

17,000 tickets and counting. Your name gets entered into a raffle to be the Marine manager. (For a friendly). Mourinho has bought a ticket so he may be managing Marine in the near future.

You would think we were the only team in the country that has injuries. Breaking news... Not one single side had been able to select their first XI in all their games. The only difference is: We whinge every time we get an injury. We treat an injury to a full-back like a death in the family.

Injuries to any of the summer signings are repeatedly put up as a pathetic excuse for the Zombie Football we have been forced to endure. Yet some of our worst performances have been with them playing...

I have to do a double-take when people use the absence of Allan as an excuse for poor football... The guy adds virtually nothing to our creativity. He is a tackling machine, pure and simple.

The reason we are such an awful watch is simple: We intend to be. We set out to spoil the game. We always play with caution and fear.

People talk about 2-3 hours of attacking intent as if that is the rule; it's not. It is very much the exception. We are always last on MotD. Not because of some RS media bias, as some claim. We are on last on because 9-10 cats think we are ugly fuckers.

To be fair, most of the teams, in and around the top spots we are competing with, had big expensive squads to start the season with.
We didn't have much beyond a half decent 14 or 15.

Repeat. Win our game in hand and we go one point behind current league leaders.

If Ancelotti has us one point off the top team whilst playing "zombie football"... "the worst football I have ever seen" etc, what will it be like when he gets it right with his own team?

What you often can't tell from the TV is what movement is going on ahead of the player in possession, but I assume it's little or none in our case, as that can be the only reason why Keane, Mina, Coleman, Davies and Gomes keep on killing any forward momentum at source.

We're not the only side that struggles to play through the lines, at pace, whilst maintaining possession and stretching the oppo.

But I'm honestly not sure there's much Carlo can do about it with the players we have. Davies, Gomes, Sigurdsson and Iwobi, all likely to feature heavily in our midfield between now and the end of the season. None is quick or agile enough on the half turn, able to receive the ball and drive forward or move it on quickly without taking multiple touches first.

That to me is the crux of the problem. Our defence is fine, though Coleman has to be replaced because he no longer offers enough going forward.

Richie, DCL, James, Allan and Doucoure are the only other regular starters whom I think are good enough for us to be playing at the level we want to see. Of those, three are Carlo signings and one has improved enormously thanks to Carlo and Big Dunc changing his game and focus.

Given time, better players will come in and the movement and midfield dynamism will be what we want it to be and what the School of Science deserves...

We've had injuries and suspensions. The intelligent, logical thing to do while Seamus, Digne, James, and Rich were all out, was to play to our strengths and pack it in defensively.

That's exactly what Carlo did, and will continue to do.

The beginning of the season we were spraying the ball around, cracking off shots like they were farts, and attacking with aplomb. We'll get back there.

The overreaction from some without context is silly.

A shite performance against the Hammers, followed up with an FA Cup early round slog (never seen one of those, cough-cough) doesn't mean Carlo is a dour, tactician-less buffoon. Quite the contrary, dude knows what he's doing.

We have a pragmatic coach who is building a flexible approach to playing which will allow him to vary tactics within a 90-minute game. He is also trying to bring silverware to this club.

Until he has a squad of his choosing he must play with what is available. This will limit his tactical approach every time.

I also believe in the project and that Carlo will deliver. Stay safe, brother blues, avoid the plague, the good times are coming along with a spanking new stadium, COYB.

Scratch the surface and we are light on quality in depth.

There is no magic wand whether that be manager, player purchases, psychologists or anything else. We will become what even the most negative here expect only when we gel as a whole and that may never happen; it needs a lot of hard work, a lot of money and a lot of luck.

We must remember too that as fans we can't influence this in any way and moaning on here will never achieve anything, just utterly pointless. What we can do is support the club in the incredible efforts that it is making and hope that in return we will be rewarded but we have to remember that there is massive competition now and success is not a right.

Our points tally has improved, we've shown ourselves a match on our day for the top teams, and I would say our current squad of defenders is as strong as I can remember with credible cover in all positions.

It's obvious, however, we still lack quality both in midfield and up front when our best players are not available. I think Gomes, Davies, Bernard, Delph and Tosun need replacing and I'm probably being generous to Sigurdsson and Iwobi.

That will take a few more windows yet but I would be disappointed if we don't sign two midfield players and a centre-forward in the current window.

I often wonder if we would do a great deal better if we all relaxed and just allowed things to take their course. That is true for all of us: club, team and fans. I don't mean do nothing, of course, but just let things untangle and find their way. We're uptight.

Agreed.

One of ours commits a horrible tackle and it's no quarter given by the pundits, anyone else and there's a queue of them telling everyone ‘he's just not that sort of a player'.

To date we have played 21 games, 16 league and 5 cup games, and won 13 of them, a win rate of about 66%. And before some come on and say we would expect to beat Salford, Fleetwood and Rotherham, I agree, but these games still have to be won, they're not given to you on a plate. There are shocks every year, every round even, in any cup competition, jeez, I've seen enough of them down the years. There's two more that's not been mentioned above, York city and Bristol Rovers in the League Cup. York beat us over two legs, 4-3, while Bristol Rovers beat us on penalties.

For me it's always result first, performance second; though I do agree winning while putting in a good performance would be nice now and again. So, as I say, a 66% win rate so far this season proves Carlo must be doing something right!

I see Oliver is in all the papers today saying he should have sent off Pickford. Here we go again, ffs!!

I've read many posts where people like myself are accused of accepting mediocrity, and I wonder what method we should adopt to put an end to this 'mediocrity'?

I think that those who post such comments should begin by deleting the word 'accept' and replacing it with 'tolerate'. As you rightly say, there's nothing we can do to influence the goings on behind the scenes, in order to bring the on-field success we all crave.

Still players to be bought from this league.
The future star will come on half time.
Mohamed Kudus.
Worth a watch

I've heard two excuses for disallowing Tosun's effort. 1/ Mina was offside. 2/ Tosun's hand was offside. Mina wasnt interfering with play. You cant score with your hand. It was a good finish too.

If his toenail was offside I would accept it but they seem to have dropped a ball here.

You remember, that time when our keeper dared tried stopping them from scoring? Unbelievable really, how many months later is it now? Lest anyone forgets.

I really want our club to come out with, something, like a highlight reel of all the shit house fouls they've done on us, or something, it feels like, as a club, we just roll over and let the establishment stomp on our belly. It's actually bullying, because we won yesterday, the next referee will have more awareness, on how we as a club are out-and-out brutes, and must be beaten down at every opportunity.

Fuming!

No the reason the midfield didn't function was because Allan was injured. It wasn't due to the fact that our esteemed maestro played three slugs together in the one area of the pitch. Forget the fact that when Doucoure and Allan had James in there they were all over the place also.

"But look at the difference to our midfield when Doucoure came on", no shit sherlock, who would have thought bringing power, athleticism and drive would improve us against a tiring team who find ways to lose every game they play. Who seen that coming? What a magician we have at the helm? Is Carlo still after a year coming close to figuring out that playing three slugs together won't work. When will we get the telegram to confirm it?

Look how better Doucoure and Allan are than last seasons. No look at how worse Allan and Doucoure are to Gana and Gomes the season before. But apparently signing two midfielders who are coming to the twilight of their careers and wouldn't get a game at Aston Villa is the path to making us great again. Fair play to Doucoure he's done really well despite being continually played in an unfavourable role but is he really a top level player or a Siggy mark two in that he is not quite top six standard?

"But we miss Allan so badly", yet this season we have failed to win only one league game without him and a cup match against Utd in which his opponent destroyed him in the league anyhow.

Yet let's hammer a guy who is recovering from a horrendous injury, has been scapegoated by the club yet he has the highest winning percentage games played of any of our midfielders this season. When he has started the midfield has had better shape, When he has been sub he has impacted every game he has come on and even yesterday he was the guy who really stepped up in extra time especially when Doucoure done the bulk of the legwork. The fact he has struggled playing with fellow snails says less about the player and more about the manager and similarly gives the 'Davies is shite brigade' more unnecessary oxygen and is harmful to the young man's development also.

Certainly Gomes lacks sharpness and intensity and needs to be managed properly and introduced at the right times, indeed he might never find his form of two years ago but now he is getting blamed for not being able to pass a ball. He along with James are easily our best technicians but when you have a coaching set up who clearly don't work on interplay and continually only have one or two options at most to hit then no wonder we look shit technically because they don't work on getting better. All off the cuff stuff, let's just make it up as we go along.

But we are four points off the top. Yet we are only three points off tenth. Nothing good or bad has been decided and the workload of some of our competitors will decrease in the new year. Top six on this evidence you are out of your minds. Away to Wolves and Villa and home games to City and Leicester will be big tests that lie in wait.

But Carlo is building to make us great again. Yes I can see that swapping Moise Kean one of the hottest young strikers in Europe for journeyman Josh fucking King has me ecstatic. But don't worry Sami Khedira is on his way also. I wonder if he will have a look at the shape of Inzaghi and Costacurta when he is at it to see if they can still do a job.

66% Rob you say, I think that was the percentage I was necking after watching that yesterday. The poitin (poteen) still wasn't strong enough though.

My early vague memories were of the 70s nearly but not quite so good enough men.

My first real cemented memories were of the Gordon Lee years followed by Howard's initial uncertain ones. I was blessed to witness what followed.

Since then I have seen sink to depths as low as we could without descending into the 2nd tier of English football for the first time I would have witnessed.

Since that, I have seen very slow and gradual progress over time. We are nowhere near the depths of the mid-late 90s but nowhere near where we what to be.

I think we rightfully judge Everton on glimpses of success over our history. We have never done a Liverpool or a United in terms of world domination for 2 decades. We have periodically and briefly hit the heights and that is what we hold our standards by.

But in the main, tolerating averageness but wanting more is where we have been.

Talk about an over-reaction. Nobody said Allan and Keane were the same player. I said he had some of his traits which he does. He demands the ball, doesn't shirk a tackle, tries to push forward, tried to play positive passes.

These are traits, by the way. not attributes or comparisons of skill.

He's been in the Premier League 5 months in one of the most difficult seasons of all time. The man doesn't speak the language yet but has done more talking on the pitch than most of our well-established players.

Gomes passing, god knows what you see but, for me, it's not there. It's nowhere near what it should be and the eyes don't lie. His passing around the box has been terrible and needs to improve.

The poor performers yesterday were subbed. What do people want with a squad so slow and lacking the quality it takes to walk games?

Our best player or supposedly best asset is probably Richarlison and he's nowhere near the top-level players.

Fans going over the same old argument and the same old results keep appearing, the players are not good enough as a whole and the squad isn't right yet.

I'd love to see where Pep could take our best 11.

Yesterday was an opportunity for some players to stake a claim. Few of them took it sadly and it exposed our lack of depth.

I don't think I've mentioned but Bernard in particular was very disappointing. Always hoped he could be that link man, runner, tricky unpredictable player. Yesterday most of what he touched went to Rotherham.

Final random one as it's been bugging me, but notice a few people over the past few weeks commenting on slow passes and the ball moving slowly. Is it me or does the grass on pitches look long? Told you it was a random one.

The reason he was injured so badly is he didn't really know what he was doing, and where his weight was. What striker with an onrushing panicking goalkeeper would present the straight leg he did? Nobody. He let him rush onto it cos he froze, cos he wasn't used to being in that position.

Good point about the pitch. Goodison Park looked a bit ropey yesterday. I don't think that affected Gomes' passing ability though.

After all, we are only the best, most original football team in Liverpool. Only we seem to be run like absolute amateurs. Could you imagine the fake best team putting up with the shit we get. Honestly, I feel cursed, really I do, mediocrity even haunts my dreams and aspirations.

Frogs of bore, instead of, Dunkirk spirit, do or die, Dogs of War. Pardon me, depressed, again.

Conor is a good poster; I see his frustration and it bugs me not being thrilled throughout games but I just don't expect it.

I have seen the club go through manager after manager and all of them have had the same problems.

These players have also had to adjust to the managers and the best spell we have shown excitement wise was the last 6 months of Silva's first season. That took a defeat at Millwall to wake players up and we put some great performances in after that. Season ended and he lost 2 vital players to his system which had looked good and who did we get. Gbamin, Iwobi. Wow.

Management talk is always the most fickle. Yesterday's game looked a doddle for 20 minutes and everyone's raving about Gordon and Gomes is coming back to form against the mighty Rotherham. 20 mins later, they all stink and it's Carlos fault.

Trust me, if the players he brings after 3 or 4 windows are not thrilling us, I will be screaming at him myself. I don't think many can deny that of all our best performers this season, his 3 signings are amongst the list and Keane is showing his best form 4 managers later.

Pickford, who I cannot stand, has been cleaning his act up. Calvert-Lewin has never looked so threatening since Ancelotti came.

Some perspective is needed or we just sack another manager and get Big Dunc or Eddie Howe to be the next in the firing line.

You draw out a few good points though. Gomes I hope can recover to become the player we all saw 2 years ago. It was a dreadful injury. I was thinking earlier in the season he could be the 3rd midfielder protected by Doucoure & Allan, allowing him to create. Seems now when all are fit we will most likely go 4-2-3-1, so I'm not seeing a place for him. But then I'm not the manager.

Also, Tom Davies; he can be a good squad player for now. That's not criticising or saying he is shit. He is obviously good enough to play top flight football, which I am not, so he is definitely not shit.

Paul, what you say about not being able to rely on the likes of Allan all of the time is in tune with what I say. With have a good first 11 - 14 when all fit but don't have the squad to cope with injuries and rotation. We still need to build strength and quality in depth. The summer was a first step but still a lot to do.

Take a fucking bow lad the.

"We have only failed to win one league game without him (Allan)."

I didn't realise... Way to knock a thousand lame arsed excuses clean out of the park.

You need to get with the program lad on here its "In Carlo we trust"... This thinking for yourself lark won't go down at all well with the shouter downers.

The wins you mention is down to the ability of the manager to cover injuries to our best players. Long may it continue.

Danny,

Wimbledon? The worst I have ever felt at an Everton game.

Of course, this happens in the cup; job done, through to next round, work in progress, we will improve, players missing, wait till they are all back, what do we expect, near the top, all the teams are shite, off-day, job done, job done, can't wait for draw, into hat.

It was an abysmal pile of shite against a poor team who made us look like a pile of shite because they looked like they gave a shite.

Looking at Davies, I feel he's had that many different managers, all trying to use him in a different way, and often playing in a poor team, and this has really stopped his development. For a kid who can do a little bit of most things, I personally still think he's good enough to play in the top league, although I'm not sure it can be with the club he obviously loves.

Gordon made a great run early on and should have scored when he snatched at the rebound. Gordon did great to create the goal for Tosun, as did Rodriguez when he created the goal for Doucouré, but the best bit of skill in the whole game for me was Tom's little dummy to let the ball run through to Gomes, just outside our own area, but very few people concentrate on anything good that the kid does.

People will be shaking their heads now reading this, which is fair enough because they don't think he's good enough, but hopefully he proves us wrong because it's never been easy coming through at Everton, and especially the last few years with the amount of managers we've had.

This club needs stability, but getting the fans to unite, even if they don't like winning ugly, would be fantastic, especially considering how long it's been since we last tasted silverware, nearly double the longest time we have ever gone in the past, without putting a pot on the table.

In all honesty, I shouted no at the telly when Tom did that. It was a square pass across the edge of the area. If he was fully aware of what was around him I applaud him. Shows a lot of confidence to do that.

If it was James, fans would be saying "the cheeky bastard, what a piece of skill". So fairs fair in giving Tom the plaudits.

As I looked around, we were rapidly becoming a few of the remaining occupiers of the Main Stand. I was numb and I'm damned sure my son was.

But, as we all know, it "turned out nice again", as George Formby used to say. I still have no fingernails on either hand as, on that day, I bit them down to the knuckle.

The local lads, for whatever reason, are and always have been easy targets, Tony. Osman, Hibbert, Barkely, now Tom Davies... and many before them.

I genuinely try to judge by footballing ability, so when I give an opinion, it is based on how I would judge any player in a blue shirt, regardless of background or how we acquired them. I see a lot in Tom, just not consistency; over the course of a match and a season. That may still come, and I hope it does, and you could label that at much of the squad.

I know exactly which moment you are on about by the way. I made a rare recent appearance on the Live Forum yesterday and was typing up what great understanding that was between Gomes and Davies but then the game moved on and something shit happened, but it was good communication and understanding in that instance.

I just want to put Conor's mind at rest. My initial Keane comparison was actually with Doucouré, not Allan. And again, not comparing in terms of being as good, just using Keane as the benchmark of having a forward running midfielder who links with the forwards and goes beyond them to create attacking options, as happened for the winning goal.

That's the point I was making and I used Roy Keane as an example as I used to admire his late runs into the box beyond the forwards that resulted in goals.

Nothing gives me more pleasure watching the Blues over the years than seeing a local kid come through. I sincerely hope Tom is one of them.

A number of posters on here are all over Carlo cos we are playing shit recently but give me 4 points off top with a game in hand and a 4th Round FA Cup place anyday over a pretty performance and a defeat.

Any players at the club in the Under-23s or above should have been able to see off Rotherham yesterday. The problems as I see them are lack of confidence, being in an unfamiliar set-up, and lack of fitness in certain cases and, oh yes an extremely poor Goodison Park pitch which did not help passing and control at all.

If anyone can identify a better manager than Ancelotti then declare it now instead of coming on here week after week and tearing the man to bits.

I wouldn't have used Roy Keane, to describe a functional midfielder Danny, even if he's probably the best I've seen at making his team function! Interesting but I remember reading that when he used to go on the ale at United, in his early days, that other great midfielder Brian Robson, told Keane, that he needed to change his game and pick his moments to surge forward, rather than constantly bombing on, otherwise he was going to burn out and knock to many years off his playing career.

Like a few fans, you talk about the form of Gomes two years ago, if it was so good or even better, why can't I recall it?

Most fans talk about the game at Anfield in the unfortunate loss; yes, he was outstanding that day, best on the pitch even, but that was one game. He scored a fabulous goal vs Wolves in a 3-1 loss, I think that was his only goal for the blues, has he any assists to his credit?

To me, he is the same player now that he was before his injury. He's always been slow, caught in possession then giving stupid fouls away in all areas of the field. He definitely slows Everton down even though there are plenty of contenders out there doing the same.

Finally, Conor, would we miss him if he went? I certainly wouldn't and again there are plenty of players I would put in that bracket.

Yesterday's game? The least said about it, the better. Most of the players and the coaching staff should prefer to forget the dismal part they played in it, and the game before, to be honest.

But – regardless of stats – seeing a starting XI with Andre Gomes in central midfield rather than Allan never makes me feel anything other than dread.

Thanks to Mr Moyes, we have a reputation for bringing a knife to a gunfight, but what does Gomes bring as his weapon of choice – Brylcreem?

On a serious note, what a great all round midfielder who unfortunately was hampered by persistent injuries.

- Victories are achieved despite and not due to the manager.

- Defeats are attributable to the manager and further evidence that he's over the hill, unable to build a team and only here to line his pockets.

- Defeats are evidence of Ancelotti being schooled by his younger, hungrier, less decorated peers on lesser wages and lower transfer budgets. Players are never to blame. Definitely not the Finch Farm graduates. Just Carlo Fantastico. Victories over others can be airbrushed into history.

- The improvement and goal scoring exploits of Calvert-Lewin are not down to Ancelotti but can be solely credited to ex-Blue Duncan Ferguson. You see the Hind has the inside track at Finch Farm and knows Big Dunc has made Calvert-Lewin the player he is. He knows Big Dunc showed the way to go by playing two upfront. One must ignore the fact that we have barely played two up front this season when Calvert-Lewin has been on fire. One must also ignore the words of Calvert-Lewin himself crediting Ancelotti for his improvement. You see that's simply lip-service.

- The journos who do have a line into Finch Farm can also be ignored. They don't see what the Hind knows. Praise be to Big Dunc! The inevitable tail-off in form cannot be attributed to anything other than Ancelotti deviating from the Big Dunc Blueprint. It is daft-arsed to try to suggest fatigue in this unprecedented spell of almost continuous football since summer may be a factor. Or simply a dip in form all players go through. No, no – do what Dunc does and the goals shall continue exponentially.

- Moise Kean is one of two of the hottest strikers on the planet which Carlo inherited, despite looking completely and utterly unsuited to the English game. Let's not speak about the public humiliation he got at the hands of our Duncan. No, no. That's another daft-arsed excuse from the cabal of Carlo Apologists. Hindsight shows us Carlo simply couldn't use him properly.

- Ancelotti is a nice guy but doomed to failure from Day 1. You see he's never only ever managed world class players. He's been sacked too, y'know. Daft-arse requests to name a potential manager who The Hind would back to be successful will not be entertained. But it had better be an ex-Blue. You see we've never won anything unless the gaffer has been an ex-Blue. Luckily for us, Idan Tal has just taken his coaching badges and will lead us to glory after Ancelotti has rode off on his yacht stuffed with Moshiri's cash.

- Mason Holgate has never made a mistake. He's young you see. One of our own – we got him when he was young! – and easy on the eye. But Yerry Mina is a “lighthouse”. Comedy gold. “What's the weather like up there Yerry LOLZ”. Let's forget he joined us at the same age Holgate is now, without having played in this league before. And let's forget Holgate is still making the same mistakes. It's simply daft-arsed to try offer any mitigation when he makes a mistake. Our Mason regularly being caught out of position high up the pitch can be ignored. He's a player, you see.

- Allan is now a tackling machine. Where have we heard that one before? The Hind-maligned Idrissa Gana Gueye. He didn't pass the ball forward like Tom Davies did, you see. He's only here for the wonga too, just like our boy James. Ignore their own words on the manager being a big part of their being here. “Pulling Power!” ROFL LOLZ LMHO. Of course they'd have been targeted and joined under ex-Blues Big Dunc and Rhino.

- We have played two hours of decent football in the last year. Presumably the two hours our Mason and our Tom played together. The Hind must have counted them. Obviously not from a daft-arsed fanboy website. But with his own fingers and the evidence of his own unblinkered eyes.

I don't know how the likes of Jay Wood have the patience to continue to challenge this guff. The emptiest vessel on ToffeeWeb really does make the most noise.

Total garbage, of course, but it suits the agendas of those supposed "Evertonians", who are only happy when they are criticising the hierarchy at the club, or have a team that is "taking a knife to a gun fight".

If Moshri backs Carlo with money and we start building a decent team, they will have nowhere to hide and nothing to criticise... but, they still will.

Can you not accept that some Evertonians might wish to comment that Carlo, despite his previous magnificence, might just have a tiny, minute, almost unmentionable, part in the dirge that we have been served up lately?

He IMO gets to close to his fellow midfielders, on numerous occasions he was closing down the space Gomes was operating in, therefore congesting the middle and at times was playing stupid 3-yard balls to Gomes when he should be creating space by pulling players away or giving players an option to pass to.

He just gets drawn toward the ball too often for my liking and has no positional sense. Only my observations but he annoys the life out of me when he does this.

Have we seen it? No? Virtually not at all. He barely starts 25 times a season his whole career and he's been all fur coat and no knickers since we signed him.

The injury can't keep being an excuse either. It was awful. I was gutted for him but it's football; if he's an important player in midfield for us, we need better performances.

Using the same logic, do the same Evertonians accept the fact that we are one point behind the league leaders if we win our game in hand, shows we are on the right track?

I withdraw the "supposed, Evertonians'" part of my comment. Sadly though, that means that there are a number of committed Evertonians on this (and other sites) that only revel in pain, horror and discomfort and are unable to enjoy the brighter periods in our existence (albeit they have been few and far between in recent years).

What is going to happen to them if Carlo does, eventually build a world-beating side and start a dynasty?

Nobody is saying the performances are acceptable. There are several factors as to why we performed poorly. Some simply refuse to entertain any reason other than it's all proof to support their theory that the gaffer is shite/over the hill/here just to top up his pension.

"However, disagreement seems to me, despite what you might think, to be okay."

You're 100% correct. As long as the disagreement is posted with respect, there is no problem whatsoever. This site (best place I've found for discussion with fellow Blues) wouldn't be a fraction of what it is without the differences of opinion.

I'm not a Carlo Fantastico happy clapper. But I'm pretty impressed we have him at the club.

Conor partially called me out wrongly last week as continuously saying I support Everton therefore I support the manager. I say partially as that is true, but what I have actually said is that I support Everton not Carlo Ancelotti.

The manager has an impressive pedigree but is arguably past his best - I get that argument. He may not be the one who is here in 5 years when Everton are back where we want them, but he stands more chance, in my opinion, of putting us on the right track than some of the chancers that have gone before him. And yes, his reputation helps with that.

Maybe progressively improve the manager, which in turn progressively improves the team. Man City is a good example. Hughes to Mancini to Pellegrino to Pep. Steady and progressive improvement over years until they got their eventual man with steady success as they got there.

The thing is, most Evertonians wait until during or after the match to vent their spleen. However, there are some Evertonians who condemn the manager and certain players before the game has kicked off!

In fact, some Evertonians set their stall out before people actually signed on the dotted line and as they “never wanted them here” cannot or will not give it a rest. As Jim says sometimes the emptiest vessels make the most noise

If we win 10 nil you would still complain as you cannot get over having Carlo as manager. We are miles better than the last 4 seasons with mostly the same players. There are lots of improvements to come but the football is not as bad as Allardyce or Silva.

Carlo worse than Allardyce?! Fuck sake. Not sure even Darren Hind would say that!

"... and, oh yes an extremely poor Goodison Park pitch which did not help passing and control at all."

The rest of your post appears to be making serious points so I'm curious: where the hell does this assertion come from?

Or is it your tongue-in-cheek way of critiquing the players for their dreadful passing and hopeless football during most of the game? In which case, nice one!

Others allude to Gomes and his suitability for us. To me, the lad was an enigma at Barca but given the size of their squad that's no reason to take a down on him. We paid a hefty sum for their occasional bench-warmer though.

To me, he never displayed any hint of ability to significantly shape a match before he was so horribly injured. I still applaud the speed he recovered from that injury but since he's returned he's regressed from the modest initial achievements.

File under another costly mistake I'm afraid, which probably explains why we weren't under pressure from any club of note when we signed him.

Spot on. I remember Big Sam claiming that, if he was Italian and his name was Sam Allardici, he would get more credit for the shite he served up... I remember thinking "What a complete Cheshire cat!"

At the time, I didn't think for one minute it would be Evertonians who proved me wrong. Defending in numbers to spoil the game is the same in any language

I've been posting on here for about five years and spent most of that time arguing with people who have excused the negative Zombie shite we have been served up by a succession of piss takers. Those who defended cowardly football and the managers who have served it up, have always been wrong. By supporting negative shite (in the name of 'positivity'), they are destined to be eternally wrong.

You cannot be successful in this league unless you are prepared to go for the win. Yeah, the cowardly stuff will get you the odd results, it may even give you a flattering position for a short while, but you will pay for your lack of courage come reckoning day.

Take away the possibility of challenging at the very top by playing cowardly football and guess what? Only the cowardly football remains.

I do find it slightly ironic that people will come on here claiming it is futile to criticise the appalling stuff we are witnessing "Because it won't affect anything" but they think it's perfectly okay to encourage others to support it. History teaches us that, as long as you support it, you will get it by the bucket load.

Landslide victories over Bradford & Bingley in the cup do not mean a fucking thing when you cower and fold in the face of proper opposition later on in the tournament.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Finch Farm Fact Finders come to their conclusions. David Unsworth has been instrumental for bringing in our most prized assets. That fact alone means he is one of the very few people at this club who has actually proven his worth. Brought in more than he has taken out.

Junior coaches like John Ebrell and Franny Jeffers are often singled out for the treatment by the "ITK". Even Bainsey is getting it on another thread. Two of these men have been coaching juniors for just over 4 years... the other one for just over 4 minutes... yet our first team – the players who are bought and coached by expensive hired hands – have been under performing for the best part of 35 years...

See if you can spot the fundamental flaw in your argument.

Darren Hind
“Ian Edwards
Spot on.”

Kerrrr Chiiinnngg!
Well done Ian - just goes to show, if you post the same point time after time after time someone eventually will agree with you.
I don't - I welcome Carlo Ancellotis appointment to Everton FC and I wish West Bromwich Albion the very best of luck with Samuel Allardiche!
The difference is - I believe we are temporarily playing shite, whilst West Brom are doomed to play such until Sam has either done his Red Adair bit and been shoved out or they go down. This time I think, not hope, it will be the latter.

He has had bad luck with injuries, but at least we now look better organised and harder to beat, and I think all the players he has signed have been upgrades. Another two windows like that will improve us a lot. With his experience, he surely knows what type of players he needs to build a successful team. If he doesn't know, who does?

That is the best post I have ever read. Well done. I would have commented but you have said it all. Once again, well said!!

Do we have the squad to go toe to toe with the top teams in the league in end-to-end attacking games? I don't think that we do.

We tried against the shite in a 2-2 draw and showed resilience in coming back twice. After that game, we lost 3 of our main players, Coleman, Rodriguez and Richarlison.

The manager has to be pragmatic in situations where his first-choice players are injured. Kevin Keagan would have walked off with at least one Premier League title if he had managed games better.

You're right in saying fast attacking football generally reaps the rewards in the zxzxx but so does having a quality squad with pace. At present we don't have a quality squad with pace. Why would you expect us to all of sudden turn average players into world beaters just because we have a decent manager?

Performance levels under Ancelotti have improved along with supporters expectations. Until we replace inconsistent players like Iwobi, Bernard, Gomes, Sigurdsson or Davies with quality additions we will get inconsistent performances.

The Rotheram performance wasn't great but we are still in the cup which is more than can be said for Allardichi or Bielsa.

Ian @314, To save you typing the same anti-Ancelotti stuff after a win, draw or loss, you can save effort by just copying and pasting from your previous comments.

We have had our own injuries and suspensions (Richarlison) which have weakened us to a degree, but apart from a really bad spell following Richarlison's absence and the 'derby hangover', we have been okay.

I think we are capable of giving Wolves a game, and expect us to do so. I'm not sure what the formation will look like, but I believe most are available apart from Allan. Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison have been rested, so if the outcome is anything less than a draw, I will be both surprised and disappointed. Midfield will be key, and keeping Traore and Neto quiet.

"Those who defended cowardly football and the managers who have served it up, have always been wrong."

That part of your post is wrong as that is your opinion and not a statement of fact!!!

I am as frustrated as everyone and yearn for Martinez's no-fear football in his first season; however, he had no idea how to defend when Moyes's defence got past their sell-by date. Carlo Ancelotti can only work with the players he has. Last season, many said it's the worst squad of poor-quality highly paid mercenaries we have ever had.

Yours and Ian Edwards's vitriol and hatred towards Ancelotti could be perceived as xenophobia.

Just to be clear, I am not saying you are racist; however, I believe it could be perceived that way...

If they were Andrew Jones and James (as in Bond) Rogers on Saturday and in other games, I'm not sure so many would be so forgiving of the performances on Saturday.

On the bigger picture. Whilst nobody can be above criticism, surely Carlo Ancelotti is deserving of some patience and support! If he fails, it really is a "Where do we go from here?" moment of epic proportions!

We will get better now most of them are coming back but they obviously aren't match fit or have needed a rest (Dcl over the weekend). If we had played aggressive attacking football without these against chelsea, Leicester or arsenal we would've been smashed all over the park.

We're four points off top and have only lost against utd in terms of the top 6. The comparison to big sam is utterly ridiculous. I'm glad we have a manager who will adapt to a plan B. Remember Martinez anyone. Remember how well that went in the end?

Just for a second give your heads a wobble. Our squad is poor. When our crucial players are out we lose a lot of quality. Ancelloti has had one window and i'd argue every single one of his signings has been a success or at the very least improved us in those positions.

We are not prime barcelona. We finished 12th last year and in one window are now competing for Europe. More will be cleared out and will be replaced with better but we are a few years away from having a squad the same level as the top clubs, something Carlo has hinted at many times.

We can slate the manager all we want but the majority of the squad have failed under numerous managers now so i'm guessing that means certain players arent good enough.

We are going to have more injuries and bad performances this season. I guarantee when everyone is fit again we will start to improve quickly again.

What a post every point addressed and answered succinctly, I am sure at some point he will be back on calling you misguided. I think nobody is above criticsm but with Darren and a few others its just childlike name calling without ever addressing the points. He even admits he was criticizing Carlo even before he took over, but that's Darrens DNA he has critisized within weeks of the appointment of every manager that Moshiri has hired. As history tells him with very few exceptions all managers get sacked, so he knows at some point he will be proved right, but what a very negative starting position to take.
I know many ask him to name someone who he would like to become our manager, but he will never commit to doing that, as he then leaves himself open to critics if his choice fails.

Reading through the posts reminded me of a good mate of mine. A red but a good lad.

When Klopp got their job he was dead set against him from the off.
Even when he showed signs of improvement my mate would not have him.
It got to a point where he came clean and admitted he wanted his team beaten in games. I told him that was cutting his nose off to spite his face just to prove his point (he probably took this course because of his being brought up red)

Thankfully Evertonians are made from better stock.

May I remind them that this was only our second victory in this competition since we reached the Semi-Final in 2016, the last victory coming against Lincoln before being dumped out by Millwall.

It's been an unbelievably poor five years or so, despite the millions that have been pumped into the club, I hope to god the next five years aren't the same, because we'll be doomed forever if they are.

That simply isn't true. Do not let him off the hook so easily.

If Carlo wins a trophy or gets us CL football Darren will be proved wrong. No two ways.
He has nailed his colours and he can definitely be wrong. Others (including me) have said Carlo will win something and that means we can be proved wrong too.
Its the sort of meaningless shite football fans participate. Thankfully we are only putting our judgement on the line. Not our bollocks. The only way you cant be wrong is to not offer an opinion.

Ian Horan

Two people on here are bleating about tactics. They are always bleating about tactics, but quite how you managed to put a racist spin on that is beyond me

Sorry pal, but I think that says more about you than it does about them

December was fun for us but brutal for the players John

When it comes to the Cup it's a pure lottery as some clubs are prone to play their youngsters and/or stiffs. But it would be nice to make a rare Wembley visit.

So modest in aspirations, I know, but can't take disappointment in my old age !

Has he got compromising photos of you or something?

No way can Darrens attitude or comments be read as singling out people from different countries.

He hates everyone :-)

When people make it personal like you do. He thinks it's because they have nothing else to offer answer.

Some of the personal stuff people a
Resort to in the name of football debate bothers me more than it bothers him

You also say "if you think he cares about people having a pop. You haven't been paying attention." I think attention is the operative word here. Darren craves it. I think he welcomes people having a pop - I think he may even need it - as it is the guaranteed way of scratching his attention itch. I wish I had the restraint not to indulge him. I wish we all did.

Stop getting duped by your lifelong friend David, and remember, if only people read your posts properly, they would never have to come to such outlandish assumptions mate!

I clearly clarified I was not calling him racist, I said it could be perceived as racism. I am more than happy for you to quote my post where I have specifially accuse anybody as racism.

As for a comment that it says more about me? Well that won't even get a reply as we live in a diverse and multicultural society to which I have no axe to grind with anyone on the grounds of colour, cread, sexuality or religious beliefs. I only have distain for all things RS

Maybe read what Darren says about it not being possible to be successful in this league without being brave, and ask him about Leeds Utd? It's much better than getting wound up!

As opposed to the wild celebratory fun fest when we win you mean Thomas??

Principles stink (if there are any) Support players that are not good enough but don't support a manager until hes got these young maestros playing like Bournemouth in their peak.

Scream for Gordon because of a mobile phone wonder goal in the Bradford and Bingley league 3 years ago but scream against the manager for not knowing about this goal.

Get Sigurdson and Iwobi playing magic football Carlo for gods sake. Make them faster and more dynamic, what is wrong with you.

How come you haven't got Calvert Lewin shooting from outside the box yet, and why on earth do you tell Richarlison to run into blind alleys every week?

Just tell them to be exciting.

Exactly opposed.

What do you think Carlo tells them to do? When they continue to do what they do, what does he tell them? "Keep doing what you do" Or "Do what I tell you to do"?

Did they do what he told them to do on Saturday or against WHU or Man Utd or did they not do what he told them to? What will he do if they didn't do, in all three games, what he told them to do.

It's all straightforward, Paul. Simple, in fact.

So by stating that those who supported the cowardly tactics of previous managers were proven wrong, I was giving an opinion rather than stating a fact?... Really?

They were all hounded out by fans demanding their dismissal. Many of the people who supported them turned on them, because they let them down. They were unceremoniously sacked by Moshiri.

How factual do you want it to be?

Casho,

Old scores lad. If people think they are settling them by posting repeatedly without even mentioning the game. Leave them to it.

I've never once called for a manager to be sacked. Not even the ones I didn't want. I don't see the point. It won't speed up the process... but I will continue to hammer cowardly tactics because they deserve to be hammered.

Others can excuse it till their blue in the face as far as I'm concerned... I've seen this film before.

I take it from your post you want Ancelotti to remain as manager for the time being?

I often put question marks because I'm here to debate, and if Darren gets on your nerves, you said it well, which is not to say everyone else did.

I'm not one to pick out players but Davies was in prime position to run the midfield against a relegation-threatened Championship side. Sadly not.

My thought on Davies is to loan him to a Championship team for a season. Get regular football in a very competitive league. Hopefully building confidence and then returning to Everton an all-round midfielder. Pressure to perform for your boyhood club, week-in & week-out, can hinder performance.

Saturday told us the buys made by Carlo are better quality than we had before. Carlo has attracted such players – not the mid-table respectful Everton FC. Currently, we are still in contention for a top 6 place and an FA Cup run. Players that may leave Everton have been given opportunity under Carlo but we know from previous seasons certain players need to be moved on. Our bench needs more quality to up the performance of players on the pitch. Complacency is the worst kind in a team.

Finally, we had a glance at being top of the league. We have been starved of success in a league we have served for so long. It's draining and frustrating and enough to put us all in therapy. I do see hope based on our manager and his signings. A few more quality players and luck could see us move to the next level.

Apart from James against Spurs, I don't think I have once this season or last witnessed any of our players 'run the show'.

We are not at that level, we do not possess the players or play the style of football to dictate play for consistently long periods in games to 'run the show'.

Davies is a good Premier League player. He's not world class, never will be... but that doesn't mean he's not good enough to play for us. We are a top 10 team, hopefully on the rise.

He's a much more consistent player than Delph, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Iwobi, Bernard etc, with potential to improve.

He may not have their abilities but he shows for the ball, passes, tackles, chases and creates chances every game I've seen him play. High work rate, low maintenance and salary.

To answer your next question: No, I won't be naming another guy who I think will be better suited to the job. It's getting increasingly difficult to discuss the real manager without offering the crazies a hypothetical name they could spend the next month kicking the arse out of.

It's been quite a telling thread. Quickly scanning down the posts, I think only Ian Edwards makes a brief observation (which I thoroughly agree with). Other than that, Carlo gets away pretty much Scot free. That people feel the need to rabidly defend criticism which barely came, tells me they feel our boy has a case to answer.

I don't crticise anything blue on matchdays anyway – they're my days off. But I will stick to what I said last week about not getting into debates about this current manager. Not even after the game.

If this thread teaches me anything, it's that you don't need to criticise the guy – the crazed illogical denials will come anyway.

Time to focus on a difficult game against Wolves.

Oh dear. ,"Crazies"

Oh dear. ,,,1,07:15:23,,109.249.181.67,ok,23848,01/12/2021 07:15:23,Tomrichards2@outlook.com,reader,,,no 1121619,40325,toffeeweb,12/01/2021,Mick O'Malley,MichaelOMalley12@icloud.com,"Totally 100% agree with Ian and Darren, it is cowardly football and, if this what we are going to get, Carlo can do one as far as I'm concerned, the great Carlo should be getting us to play better football than this dreary shite we've watched for about 80% of his time here.

My old fella has had a season ticket for over 50 years and he can't remember duller football than what is presently being served up. I never thought I'd hear him say he is losing interest in going to the match cos it is dull boring football.

If other fans want to watch that, then that's their prerogative. Everton have always played better on the front foot and the great Carlo, after 12 months, is serving up the same dross week after week.

The only team I've really clapped this season was Leeds after they ran and ran, at Goodison, but it was clear to me then, that until we've got a few better players, then it was very important that we became hard to beat.

We are a contradiction, or we was a contradiction, because how can a team genuinely press the ball, when their defenders refused to push up, and this is what was happening, along with an unbalanced midfield, that was have to keep one eye on Rodriguez, getting back and filling in, which is probably why Gordon was hooked last Saturday, because he offered Digne no protection.

If we are still playing like this after the next couple of windows, then I'm sure the fans will turn and voice their concerns?

I agree football is definitely an entertainment business, but as long as Ancellotti's putting a bit of backbone into the squad, then I'm prepared to suffer this type of football, for a bit longer.

I understand the frustration of those complaining about the poor standard of football we have had to endure under previous managers, but it's totally unfair to tar Carlo with the same brush at this stage. Let's see how he gets on after he clears up the mess he inherited.
If after a couple of windows we are still taking an overly cautious approach I will add my voice to the protest, but I don't believe for one minute that we will. We have a champion at the helm.
Lets give him a chance to show what he can do before we dismiss him as a bad fit

BTW; I think "crazies" is a pretty accurate description of somebody who has posted over 100 times on the last two match day threads. Carlo is not above criticism, but those who come on to frantically refute even the most legitimate criticism serve only to erode the credibility of more open minded supporters.

i'm flattered you spent the time counting

So I think that barring us getting into a relegation fight Carlo will be given the time and FFP allowing money needed to get us competing at the top end of the league. But should Carlo not be able to restore this club to were we want to be, I wonder if Usmanov and Moshiri will want to keep bank rolling the club at the same level they have over the past few years. Obviously the club with a new stadium will be a better proposition to a buyer than taking over a club still committed to building a £500 million stadium. So I think whatever happens on the pitch the stadium build will go ahead, if nothing else just to protect the fortune this pair have pumped into this club. So if Carlo left I don't see a new manager being backed financially like the previous 5 managers will have been.

i could see a similar situation as happened with Randy Learner at Villa or Ellis Short at Sunderland, were they basically stopped funding the club out of their own pocket, and only allowed the clubs to spend any money brought in from outgoings. A path that has also been used by Mike Ashley much to the annoyance of the Newcastle fans, and just to annoy the Newcastle fans even more when Ashley did agree to sell the Premier League blocked the move. So I think its in every Evertonians interest to hope that Carlo gets things right as I fear if he doesnt we may have lost a chance to rival the top 4 again.