Premier League — Week 23

What a finish at leicester. Spurs 2-1 down going into the sixth minute of added on time, and end up winning 3-2!!

Rob, that's what changing the manager can do (if it's the right appointment) United should have gone for Conte. He is a motivator, possibly Dunc could be for us.

True, Joe. Happened with Villa and Gerrard. Even Watford had a couple of decent results with Ranieri before his wheels well and truly tell off. Man Utd ripping Brentford apart at the moment. 3-0.

Naive by Leicester though, Barnes should have squared it on 85 minutes but shot instead, tap in wasted.

Brentford wasteful first half though Rob.

Only turned over after the other game finished, Jeff. Saw none of the first half.

Three young lads doing the business for United Elanga, Greenwood and Rashford'with a goal apiece.

Only the RS are poxier than Tottenham

I didn't think Leicester were going to be able to produce a team in January although it might end up being a blessing in disguise that they were allowed to postpone last Tuesday's game, now.

He just didn't want to pass it to Lookman, Jeff!

Despite the early season turbulence, Tottenham looking in a healthy position.

One point of top 4 with games in hand on those around them.

We have games in hand. After tonight's result, only 4 points behind Brentford with 3 games in hand!!!

Danny, the number of times we said last season 'when we win our games in hand' and we never did. Right now I would take Brentford's additional 4 points.

I don't think my sarcasm came over as I meant there Steve!!!

Tottenham have games in hand and chasing 4th.

We have games in hand chasing Brentford.

No disrespect to Brentford.

Ah Danny, 'Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but it shows the highest form of intelligence'.
So said Oscar Wilde.

Games in hand are fine if you get the points from them.

It's obvious Everton have to start collecting points right now but they won't if the defensive side of things don't improve.

The competitiveness in the middle of the park has been a big problem and Benitez couldn't get it sorted.

Ferguson was part of the Benitez set-up but one hopes he has some strategic ideas of his own about getting the team to play as a tighter unit when not in possession.

Watching Watford v Norwich.

How on earth did we lose to these two teams? Really? They are both absolutely woeful.

The most obvious answer is because we can't defend, Fran.

Fran, I didn't want to be the first to say that, but you are spot on. These two are absolutely dreadful. It's almost as bad as Sunday league football.

That's the current worry, Fran, are we are worse than Watford and Norwich?

Rresults say we are, no team is too good to go down, no-one stays up on 19 points, so if we cannot beat those teams, who can we beat?

Reality check, we need wins quick, and tommorrow's against Villa would balance the ridiculous Norwich defeat for starters, let's not be too aloof!

Fran and Rob.

Did you see the Emmanuel Dennis and Lees-Melou coming together for which Dennis was booked?

Live in real time I let out an 'Ohhhh!' thinking the Norwich player jumped in two footed, both feet off the ground, yet he rolls on the ground and Dennis gets booked.

The replays confirmed that original view. That's one for VAR to tell the ref you might want to take a look at that.

Straight red card for the Norwich man for me.

Clever finish. Collectively awful defending by Watford.

Didn't watch the incident closely enough to comment on that, Jay.

But what a farce. Loss of power and the game halted due to some floodlights not working. What an absolute joke. And testament to the quality of the teams on show.

Jay, do you mean the first booking? That was a definite yellow, and could even have been a red. Second one was also a definite yellow.

Norwich have gained 6 points on us since this time last week, 6 fucking points.

Fran,

That's how woeful we are!!!

Tomorrow starts a new up an at em era, again, which has been serious lacking.

Big Dunc will have them fired up.

Long way to go. IMO give it to Dunc at least to the end of the season.

Looks like that team destined for the championship - Norwich - will be 3 points behind us at 10pm tonight. Rannieri may be available tomorrow!!!

Norwich 3 points behind us, we need to win the games in hand, starting tomorrow, otherwise we become the next target for the teams below us. Tonight it's Norwich.

Talking about winning our games in hand, Jeff, reminds me that if we could have done that last season, we might have ended up in the Champions League, but if we don't win them now, then the worry is we could end up dropping into the Championship.

Ranieri is a dead man walking. A nice guy, what he did at Leicester was legendary and will be remembered for generations, buthe is a managywhi quite simply should be sipping on wine and enjoying retirement. He's got the money, and he's clearly not up to it, why continue?

Wonder if Benítez will end up at Watford?

But Watford's defence I pathetic. João Pedro is a decent dribbler of the ball but not a great shooter.

That is about as much as I've learned from this match. If I didn't know and watched this and someone said this was League 2, I'd not question it.

Enjoyed this game but it was more like a mid-table Championship match. Floodlight trouble is usually a lower-league thing too nowadays!

Baffling though as to what we even did to elevate them to miles better than they are when we played them both - and we've done it before.

Our squad as a whole is so much better than either. Something has been very wrong and the team spirit and belief has been a big part of it. I don't think that will be so tomorrow.

FFS, don't start “bigging” Norwich up. They were absolutely dreadful tonight. That first half was probably the worst half of football I've ever seen. If Norwich had been playing anyone else tonight, yes, even us, they would almost certainly have lost, because they were that bad. Next up for Norwich is Palace, the RS and Man City. Let's see how many points they get from those games. A big fat zero if you ask me.

Fuck it. Cmon Leeds Suck it Salman

Man City seem off their game tonight, getting well held by a Southampton team with a plan and fighting for every ball, although City are not helped by the poor display by Sterling and Grealish who adds nothing to the City team up to now. I imagine one or the other or maybe both will be replaced in this game. Come on, City, don't let our weekend be completely ruined by losing this game.

I'm watching Southampton set to defend a free-kick with a highly sophisticated system of zonal marking:

"Just line up 8 of you along the 18-yard line and move as one."

Result: Easy goal for Laporte at the far post!

If only Crystal Palace had Calvert-Lewin up front, he would have a hat-trick by now... oh wait. Maybe not.

Who's the VAR In the Palace game, because if that's a penalty then seriously, we might as well all pack in. Jota over ran the ball, and he ran into the Palace keeper. The keeper clearly backed away from any challenge and Jota just ran into him. Absolutely disgusting decision.

Rob, It's that melt we had yesterday I think.

Craig “out of my depth” Pawson.

If there's any doubt left about corruption then look at that penalty decision from VAR, a disgrace to the game of football. Jota loses control of the ball, it zooms out of play then he veers right into the Palace keeper and goes down. A shocker and killed the game when Palace were dangerous.

Rob,

I agree and it wasn't a clear and obvious error by the match referee which I thought was necessary for VAR to over rule?

Pawson was VAR which is the guy we had yesterday poor by name, poor by nature!

And they say the Top 6 don't get favorable decisions from referees, don't think Kevin Friend is a friend of Palace with that non-penalty decision given as a penalty to you now who...

Pawson is just following the old tradition of giving a dodgy pen to the RS whenever they are in danger of dropping points.

Felt sorry for Viera the Palace manager coming off the field but was having to bite his tongue unless he was waiting to have a go at the ref. In the tunnel, poor refs.

They're one on the field and the other in the studio and even worse on the field yesterday at Goodison along with the linesman on The Bullens Road side of the field. VAR getting abused in both places.

A disgraceful decision. Pawson is a terrible referee.

Poor decision for the penalty but Liverpool are a different league to us and they are so because they play a very simple intense pressing game. The forward players are just onside ready to break quickly, get forward quickly, and the midfield knows exactly how to find them.

Are Everton's players inherently weaker one by one? I don't believe so… but as a team, absolutely. Our players don't play an intense game and we don't play as a team. Klopp has a system and they play it brilliantly. We are 2 years off that state even when we have found the players.

Where are Everton at now in reality? We're at best, with settled manager and team, mid-table. Sides of our ability can and do go down if the chips are down and we could go down this year. Every game is a cup final now and what if we lose to Newcastle? What a job Duncan Ferguson has taken on, an impossibility, sows' and pigs' ears come to mind.

Once again, it's not the technology or VAR. It's the officials.

VAR should be a leveller. It is just expanding the incompetence to another level.

Make them accountable. Make them talk through the decision-making process like in Rugby Union.

It will take time, but eventually we will have better officials and a system that makes it clear for all to see, along with an explanation for the decision.

We're 5 points behind Palace with 2 games in hand. We're 4 behind Brentford with 3 games in hand.

After yesterday, when I couldn't manage a smile, all is not lost despite the fact we're a terrible team. The good news is there are about 8 terrible teams around us.

We need to get a grip, stick together, become hard to beat, and reassess in the summer. It'll be difficult but it is manageable!

We've lost to Palace and Brentford, Stephen. Slaughtered 5-2 by Watford at home. We're appalling.

Danny, I'd love to hear Kevin Friend explain that penalty decision to us!

I haven't seen the Palace game and won't, but isn't a bit odd for an official who reffed Everton yesterday, to be the VAR offical for its nearest geographical rivals the following day? Perhaps, this happens all the time and I've not noticed.

Watching the Chelsea game, did Doherty even get yellow-carded for that foul a few minutes ago?

Stephen @45,

That is correct. Relegation is unlikely but we have to be 12th man every game now.

Martin

“Unlikely”?

No manager, clueless owner, weak minded players, worst form in the Premier League since Week 5.

I wonder if in Kenwright's World he sees the team and games as actors in a weekly production that he is directing and he sees the ends of the ground as theatre stalls, circles and boxes and the pitch as a stage with the spotlight on Bill?

I just wish that he'd write a script where we win in the end, that's all. You'd think that pantomime season would be over by now though?

Martin 49, relegation is likely at this point. We're the worst team in the league and have been for months. We've also weakened the squad significantly while others have improved theirs.

One Premier League win since September. One! Add to that the wasted opportunities for points against our relegation rivals Watford and Norwich. The damage has already been done.

Danny, be positive in the face of such adversity. There are some crap sides around other than us and we have games in hand. We have a good chance to avoid the drop but no guarantee. It's a terrifying prospect because we are broken – not just in a temporary dip.

Chelsea are so pleasing on the eye. What is that game they are playing? Is it the same football that we claim to play?

Barkley sat on his arse for the whole match, get him back here on loan as he cant be any worse than what we have at present.

Seems some have already confined us dropping through the trap door. Danny # 52, you say others have improved their squads, who exactly? The only clubs down there to have bought anyone are Newcastle, two over 30's and that's it. Howe has said it's getting frustratingly difficult for them to get anybody else in. Burnley sold their only decent forward to a relegation rival, and have yet to replace him. Watford have signed Samir and Kamara (can't comment on them cos haven't seen much of them two), but still look a bag of shite, and Norwich haven't signed anyone. Nor indeed have Leeds or Brentford.

We've only had one win since September, true can't argue with that. However, Burnley have had one win all season, Newcastle two wins all season, and Norwich and Watford four wins all season. We've won the same as Leeds, Palace and Southampton, and one less than Brentford and everyone's current second favourite, Brighton. Also, how on earth can relegation be likely at this point?There are still, for us anyway, 54 points to play for. As Martin says, there are plenty of crap teams around us, and can anyone honestly see any of those teams going on some sort of mega winning streak? I've read that some are saying Norwich and Newcastle are starting to win games, yeah right, they've suddenly found the magic formula and are now going to pull away. Seems we only have to win one game then and we will pull away. That win will come against Leeds, and I'd take a draw against Newcastle. I certainly don't see a defeat there.

Rob 56

I really hope you are right and we get a couple of wins in the next few weeks and pull right away from any threat of relegation. Just looked at our last 8 games and its a pretty tough run in.

West Ham (a)
Man Utd (h)
C/Palace (h)
Liverpool (a)
Chelsea (h)
Leicester (a)
Brentford (h)
Arsenal (a)

We just need to get some confidence and energy back intot he players and we will be ok. The only worry I have is Moshiri and Kenwright deciding the new manager and structure going forward especially if KIA Joorabachian is doing the advising.

Brian, look at the bigger picture though. Look at all the others last eight games. It would take too long to list them, but at random, I've picked Watford, and their last eight games are………..

Liverpool (A)
Leeds (H)
Brentford (H)
Man City (A)
Burnley (H)
Palace (A)
Leicester (H)
Chelsea (A)

One or two games against relegation rivals, so points are going to be dropped, and the others will have just as daunting a run in. The best way to guess who's going down, and who's not, will be a week tomorrow when the transfer window shuts. Who buys who will give a good idea as to the final outcome. That's my opinion anyway.

I love your optimism Rob but we are playing shite against poor teams and if it continues we are very likley going down.

Agree with Geoff Rob. We cannot keep a clean sheet or score goals. Our Keeper (England's No1) is in danger of Relegation for a 2nd time. He was always right ye know, we are a small club, that's why it's 27 years and still ongoing. The People's Club, its pitiful.

Geoff, if you think we're playing shite against poor teams, and I'm not saying we aren't by the way, what do you think the clubs below us are doing? They are below us for a reason, because they are shite! You only had to watch the game on Friday between Watford and Norwich. Doubt you will see a worse game of football anywhere. Watford were actually the better team in the first half, which isn't saying much, so I'd say it's very likely those two are going down. If Newcastle don't get the defender(s) they crave then they will also go.

Iwobi sent off for Nigeria!

Well as I say, Joe, look at the bigger picture, not just Everton. We have scored more goals (not that many I know) and conceded less than all the teams around us. Brentford are almost on a par, but have a goal difference of minus 12 to our minus 11. So if we aren't scoring goals or keeping clean sheets, neither is anybody else.

Rob, they're below us because of our good first few results.

On form those teams are all out performing us. Every team is out performing us - we've got 5 points from 12 games.

Worst ever VAR decision - not even yellow.

In that case Ernie, they've had about fifteen or sixteen games to catch, and then overtake us. Hasn't happened yet has it, and I don't think it will. That also means that these teams have been shit all season, and will likely remain shit all season.

You are right, Ernie. However, I cling to the hope, as Norwich fans did, that it can't get much worse, and the team that beat Arsenal can get a few wins and draws. Just need our best players to get match fit and get it in their head that they ARE our best players. Confidence is a thirty million signing.

Rob, I'd simplify the question of respective remaining fixtures even more and select just a few of Everton's fixtures, in no chronological order but rather from the bottom of the league up.

A Burnley
A Watford
H & A Newcastle
H Leeds
H Brentford

Win those six fixtures, we're safe. Lose any of those fixtures and we give encouragement to the victor as well as seeing the gap between us and the other teams narrow. Anything we get from the other 12 fixtures we have to play would be a welcome bonus.

No idea when we play all those fixtures other than Newcastle away next followed by Leeds at home. But any loss in those 6 key fixtures would further dent already rock bottom low confidence and bring further pressure on the team. And this group of players have repeatedly shown down the years, they don't respond well to pressure.

Our record after our opening 7 fixtures reads:

P 7 W 4 D 2 L 1 F 13 A 8 Pts 14

That had us in 5th, on equal points with City in 3rd and United in 4th. One point behind Liverpool in 2nd. Two points behind leaders Chelsea.

In our 13 PL fixtures since then it reads:

P 13 W 1 D 2 L 10 F 11 A 27 Pts 5

The WORST form of all 20 PL clubs in that band of fixtures.

The results read: LLLDLLLWLDLLL

17 times in 23 games this season we have conceded the first goal. In the overwhelming majority of those games, we have failed to salvage anything from the game.

NOTHING in our form of the last four months hints at us returning to that early season form any time soon.

We are managerless. Without a DoF. Without a head medical office, head of recruitment and scouting. Without many first team auxillary training staff as they all left with Benitez. Unlikely now to sign any further players in this window. Without a true football person making the big decisions on who the new manager should be.

All an act of self-sabotage in the last 4-6 weeks when we are in our poorest run of league form in decades.

It all adds up to an imperfect storm.

The team, the club, is not in a very good place on many fronts, Rob.

Jay, that's a hefty chunk of a season to base current form on, two thirds in fact. I agree it's diabolical, but again, look at the overall picture. If the four teams below us have a combined total of eleven wins from eighty one games, what kind of form is that, and where are they all going to get the required number to keep them up? Between them, they've won one game out of seven (almost). Everyone is just looking at Everton, look at all the other clubs and the predicament they are in.

Rob, I put up a more detailed post on ALL teams form in the match day thread. Since matchday 5 to the current matchday 23, we sit rock bottom of all 20 PL in the form table with 9 points. By comparison:

* Burnley are on 11 points (even having played 2 games less than us)
* Watford 2 points better off, same number of games played as Everton
* Newcastle 5 points better off, one more game played
* Norwich 7 points better off, two more games played

ALL have better form than us over the past four months since that very good start by Everton, Rob.

This is not a temporary blip. We are deep in it fellah, all the more so with all the other issues I listed in my previous post.

5 points from the last 36points available!! Given we have 18 games left and our form or should we say lack of it remains we would garner 7 or 8 points. People are claiming but have you seen the bottom 3s next run of results against the top 5 or 6 in the league. We have seen today Burnley a free hit get a point away at Arsenal, the teams below us Norwich have won 2 on the bounce and are 3 points behind. Barcodes will buy their way out of it. Burnley considering Andy Carroll until the end of season. I cant see us blues next win coming, Barcodes have us twice, Watford have us at their place, Burnley have us at their place. We have Leicester H/W, city, utd, Chelsea all at home. Arsenal, Spurs and the RS away at present we have 19 points our current position and form indicates we will be lucky to break 30 points!!! I fear we are in free fall.

Rob#70
Must admit I'm getting nervous.
Seems like we're dropping a place every 2/3 games...whilst the relegation fodder are all picking up an unexpected three points here and there.
That said we were still 7/1 (against) to go down last time I checked...the bookies agree with you with four teams more likely and on pretty short odds.🤞🤞🤞

We have to look at ourselves. Once we start relying on others' results, we're part of the way to disappearing.

We have to be tight at the back. We have to start getting first goals and we have to bring in a loan signing of a No 10.
We have to have a settled back 4.
Barkley? Lingard?

We are really poor but so are so many other teams around us. I fear the worst but have slightly more hope than yesterday when I was sure the end was nigh!

Whatever happens we must get behind the team

Ian, we've been in free fall for months. We waited too long to give Benitez the boot.

Good to see people finally starting to believe in the comet hurtling toward us.

Ok, I give up. All those teams around us are far superior, are all going to go on mega winning streaks, leaving us well behind. Who's going down with us, Leicester, Villa, maybe Southampton or Palace, seeing as all these teams below us, who over the entire season so far, have a worse record than us, have won eleven games out of eighty one between them, are also going to catch said teams following their mega winning streaks.

Don't give up Rob I haven't given up just yet but it's not looking good mate.COYB PS I think our next league match will tell us more.

Thank you Rob. You've woken me out of my weekend slumber.

We're going to finish 12th. Hardly what I wanted, but we can and will.

We're going to Wembley.

We're going to Europe.

Poor dogs.