Everton lodge complaint over VAR decisions

Should be interesting to hear their reply. Probably give us a fine and points deduction for having the nerve to complain.

Rob,

The reply will likely go like this:

Dear Denise Barrett-Baxendale,

We accept that there was a mistake made during your recent game against Manchester City. Having taken great consideration relating to your complaint, we have decided to award Liverpool 3 points, deduct Manchester City 3 points and fine Everton Football Club £100,000. I realise that this will impact your Financial Fair Play situation but that was the maximum fine available to us.

Please feel free to point out any errors in future fixtures and we will try and judge it fairly and mete out appropriate punishments as we see fit.

Seen Rob:

"Sky Sports News understands the club are 'absolutely incandescent' at some of the refereeing decisions made in recent games and they are demanding at the very least an apology for Frank Lampard and his team".

An apology is one thing. It won't change the result but at least little old Everton is standing up.

Formal complaint gone in via Barrett-Baxendale, asking them to apologise to Lampard. To what avail, we will see?

Mal.

Just seen that reported on BBC news Sports report and on website. Not seen letter yet, but it is about abysmally poor refereeing standards. I'm really pleased to see the club finally getting off its arse and acting professionally by making a formal complaint and making its presence felt.

Outside of the Sky 6, I doubt there's a supporter in the country who wouldn't back us on this. No more rolling over and taking any crap thrown at us. We need to fight at every level if we are to survive.

They'll no doubt respond by getting someone independent like 'Honest' Mark Clattenberg to carry out a fair and impartial investigation of our complaint. I hope the club puts a video up on YouTube showing a selection of bent (sorry, 'incompetent') decisions that have affected not just us but other clubs too to back up its case - eg, of penalties given or not given.

About time we stood up and said enough is enough, Frank did a brilliant job, stopping short of saying corrupt.

Now we have sent a letter in asking for an apology, at last we are getting it in the news and if other teams speak up, they may just shake up the awful officials, and those that hide behind VAR.

We are finally getting a backbone, every single person from the top right down to the players and coaching staff, the supporters are singing from the same hymn sheet.

For the first time is many a year, it feels like Everton are finally getting some identity back, the Library has turned back into a bear pit.

Even ToffeeWeb is starting to get a bit more togetherness, although there may still be a couple who would not join up together, in no man's land Bramley Moore, for a drink and a blast of the pipes of peace.

But opinions apart, our club are starting to look like a professionally run club at last.

Let's see if the obvious handball mistake shake up the premier league to act and do something about VAR.

Danny,

An apology from the Premier League is futile. It will mean absolutely nothing. They might as well just laugh in our faces and say “Tough shit, get on with it”.

Rob, oh it will matter... no doubt they will decide to take 2 points of City, while nothing to Everton, and insist the City vs RS title decider is played at Anfield as a gesture to Merseyside as an apology.

Funny how they play so close to the end of the season (there may or may not be any financial irregularities involved).

John,

Seeing you made mention of Clattenberg, he was on twitter this morning saying that it was a definite penalty, and said that Tierney might not have seen it but Kavanagh definitely had to award a penalty. He went on to say it was the clearest penalty he had seen in years.

Great that the club have complained and no doubt will receive an apology, and no doubt will offer mitigating circumstances as to why such an appalling decision was made. But it doesn't make up for the point we may have got had the penalty been converted.

But I am sure as furious as Lampard and Cole were over the decision we can't feel sorry for ourselves and think everything is against us, because that wont help our cause.

I would hope that the rest of the refs don't look at this as being an attack on one of their colleagues and punish us even more than they already have.

Seems to be a real bias towards some teams for VAR. The most controversial VAR decision this week was in the Rangers Dortmund game, where Rangers had a goal denied for a foul, supposedly by the Rangers (Morelos).

Actually, he was the player fouled and it was unbelievably chalked off. This, luckily, did not change to overall result but it does highlight how awful VAR can be at times.

The angle that showed the incident in favour of Rangers wasn't even shown to the ref on the pitch-side monitor. Crazy stuff or bias towards the much-fancied German side?

Rather than just asking for an apology, I hope they asked what the EPL intend to do to improve the standard of refereeing and VAR. Perhaps VAR needs a permanent team of qualified officials, possibly from abroad, who maybe have not officiated on-field in England.

Notwithstanding their gross incompetence on Saturday, Tierney from Wigan and Kavanagh, reputedly from Ashton under Lyne, plus others like Dean, the self-styled Tranmere Rovers supporter from Wirral, should simply not be allowed to officiate in matches involving clubs from the North West.

In pre-Premier League days, when the home towns of referees and linesmen were actually printed in the matchday programme, none of them would ever be located locally to either team.

If the Premier League have to hire more officials to comply then so be it. Surely the officiating in the Football League can't be any worse?

As posted on another thread, I've just seen it reported on BBC news and on its website. Not seen letter yet, but it is about abysmally poor refereeing standards. I'm really pleased to see the club finally getting off its arse and acting professionally by making a formal complaint and making its presence felt.

Outside of the Sky 6, I doubt there's a supporter in the country who wouldn't back us on this. No more rolling over and taking any crap thrown at us. We need to fight at every level if we are to survive.

They'll no doubt respond by getting someone independent like 'Honest' Mark Clattenberg to carry out a fair and impartial investigation of our complaint. I hope the club puts a video up on Youtube showing a selection of bent (sorry incompetent) decisions that have affected not just us but other clubs too to back up its case - e.g. of penalties given/not given.

I think that to all apart from the matchday officials it was an obvious penalty and that it should have been confirmed with a correct VAR analysis. As an immediate remedy, all the officials concerned should be suspended pending an investigation.

With regard to correcting, the points should be withheld from Man City and the game replayed. That would appear to be the fairest way to resolve the matter for Everton and other third parties affected by the result.

We just want people who don't have a bias towards a certain team. Just get people trained in how to use the kit. VAR is a good thing if it's used like it is in rugby.

Also, the rules just need to be straightforward. If as on Saturday the player puts his arm out and it hits any part of the arm as it did on Saturday, then it's a pen. None of this "if it's above the cuff" nonsense. How would they have sorted it if he had been wearing long sleeves?

Paul;

That will probably just be more work for the firm of lawyers City used against UEFA on FFP. Unfortunately, the result will stand but we can at least insist on a more competent system.

VAR Has been a bloody shambles from Day One.
Instead of doing offline, realtime, "double blind" trials.
No.
Right in nuts deep with both feet.

It's just added another few levels of
Incompetence
Inconsistency and
UTTER BULLSHIT
To the constant dialogue of self serving nonsense.

The latest piece of hilarious incompetence to leak out is that the VAR doesn't always have the best, most informative angles which TV coverage does.
Why ?

Clearly We got shafted on Saturday by The Referring Cabal, so no fuckin change there then.

What will DBB's request for an apology achieve ?

Retrospectively = Bugger All

Future ? Maybe just Maybe We'll have Referees on their very best behaviour where close call decisions involving Everton are concerned.

In, reality?
The square root of minus fuckall difference for Us, but some other club will benefit before the clock strikes midnight.

Are my eyes lying or have Everton have finally grown a pair???….this is very un-Kenwright-like. He's usually sucking up to all the hierarchy to keep them happy. Bloody good on DBB for writing that and long may it continue. We've been trampled all over by the FA for years and years - Niasse v Palace, Keane v Brighton, the Spurs handballs, Gomes foul fallout etc etc - but I'm not holding my breath they'll be showing any remorse. It's felt to me like the EPL money men would rather just one team from the city in the PL and we all know who that is. And now the awful barcodes have the bottomless pit of oil money at their disposal they'll be another lot benefiting from the appalling bias.

Let's have this right, it's only going to stay in the news because it's affected our neighbours, and when Liverpool get their next dodgy decision, then in certain sections of the media, two wrongs will suddenly become right? (This is a major part of the problem for me)

My initial worry, is that certain refs have been getting away with treating Everton badly for years imo, and I've definitely felt that some of them have had a witch-hunt against us, and this might make them even worse, such is the power they currently have, whilst hiding behind VAR.

Martin Atkinson is definitely in that club, and I personally think he's had a bad influence on Everton for years, and although I couldn't accuse the 4th official of doing anything wrong on Saturday night (except turning up - sorry I can't help it!) you do wonder how much these refs talk about certain players, managers and supporters, during the week?

At last we're complaining! It won't change the result but may concentrate the minds of referees in future.

Kavanagh has form; he was the match referee who chalked off Calvert-Lewin's goal at Old Trafford because he deemed that the prone Sigurdsson was interfering with the goalkeeper's line of vision which was odd, to say the least, as the goal was scored on the other side of the goal and how could a player on the ground impede the sightline of a goalkeeper who's standing up?

Tierney admitted his view of Saturday's incident was obscured so why, in that case, didn't he go to the monitor to have a look, himself?

This appalling refereeing could have consequences of tens of millions of pounds at both ends of the table.

It is very important that we complain in this way. We have been far too compliant in the past and the more pressure we apply in this way, the more likely we will get favourable decisions in future.

These refs are scared of Klopp and Pep, just like they were of Sir Alex. We need to make it clear that we will make a fuss and won't take this shit lying down.

If whoever makes the banners for Goodison reads ToffeeWeb, can we have one made that says “VAR – the rest of league is watching YOU” please?

The reason VAR came into existence was to ensure any key decisions made by the officials are not made in error.

After over 125 years, it was deemed that technology should be used as a supporting tool for the on-field referee to eliminate errors. A bad workman always blames his tools.

VAR, when used correctly, can do that... but the inconsistencies shown by match officials is just duplicated by the very same inconsistencies at Stockley Park. Bad decisions are made by incompetent officials at both the game or at the VAR centre, it's not the technology that's to blame – it's the standard and quality of the game officials and those who check. It's the blind leading the blind.

The game has suffered as a result; on Saturday, we lost a game and potentially a point. Come the end of the season, that point may be the very real difference between survival or relegation. An apology doesn't cut it; there isn't a chance in he'll that the game would be replayed.
Clubs, managers or players are suspended and fined if they bring the game into disrepute, surely the officiating should carry the same scrutiny?

The abysmal decisions have cost the club dearly this season and the bias shown to certain clubs is corrupting the game. VAR should be at the game, not in a room hundreds of miles away. Referees should have to consult the pitch-side monitors to review any decision that could have led to a goal being awarded or denied. This, like rugby, should be transparent and done in real time, shown on screen, with audio, to the fans at the game.

In addition, the matchday VAR officials should have at least one senior ex-player to assist in making the call.

Fairness, competence and an uninfluenced official is all we ask for.

Has anyone ever heard any of these referees speak?

Christine #23, very good post.

I was talking to my brother (Dave) today about the incident. Although he prefers the dark side, he doesn't really care too much either way and generally knows the results but that's about it.

Anyway, I was prattling on about the penalty decision, he listened and said “what did the VAR replay on the screen at the game show?”. I explained that a replay of the incident is not shown to the spectators, all the screen shows is “VAR checking possible penalty (or words to that effect”. He then asked, “what about the explanation from the referee or VAR official?” I again explained that there is no commentary. Dave's response was “that is just cowardice, they haven't got the balls to explain their own actions then? What's the point of VAR? Sounds like they make it up as the go along or to suit a particular situation. Surely it would help their own reputation and credence to explain how a decision is being made, even if they got it wrong at least the support would have a better idea and understanding why?”

I thought he summed it up very well.

That's just it Christine. They need to be accountable. If we're going to use the technology, then use it properly and if they are confident in their ability, they would be transparent just like Rugby Union referees and explain their decision making process.

Neil (26), “ I think he summed it up very well” Neil I think your brother summed it up excellently particularly “ Sounds like they make it up as they go along or to suit a particular situation” You definitely see the same situations in two different games with one goal given and one disallowed.

It's not VAR that's at fault – it's the inept referees who monitor it who are at fault.

Similar systems are used in Rugby and Cricket and I have never seen any decisions that they make in their sport ever questioned. Both in Cricket and Rugby, the fee-paying customer is allowed to watch and hear what the match officials and the ref are discussing. Yet the only people in Football to see what they are looking at is those who watch the game on stream or TV, and the fee-paying customer at the game is left in the dark.

So how come two sports can allow their match-going customers to watch and as importantly hear what the video ref is saying, yet football fans are not given that possibility?

Sky aren't bothered their customers can see the incident so their customers are not left in the dark, so they won't be campaigning for change. Maybe it's time match-going Football fans demanded the same rights as Cricket and Rugby fans.

Brian #29, Rugby and Cricket both do it very well, they don't always get it right but they are not afraid of the transparency and, I assume, use it to improve future reviews.

Dave #28, yes, we see that repeatedly and I would say it has got worse this season which tells me that no-one is learning from the mistakes. It's great that the club have complained, the more that happens the better until things improve at least.

Is there a means of supporters from various different clubs uniting in calling for transparency?

I think the problem overall is several different things. What do VAR decide to look at and why?

If we take Saturday's abhorrence, then what was the sequence of events? Did Tierney see it and not give it or not see it? That's the first thing that's not clear to me.

If Tierney didn't see it then surely VAR must tell him to view it on the monitor. If he did see it but decided on his view that it wasn't a penalty, then VAR can only ask him to view it if they believe (very subjective) that Tierney has made a clear and obvious error in not giving it. In either case, isn't Tierney the only and final decision maker?

I really don't understand the process. For instance, if a corner is incorrectly awarded instead of a goal kick and a goal is scored from that, shouldn't it be reviewed and then disallowed?

How far does that go? If there is a quick succession of corners, as often happens, but the first one was incorrectly given, then should that goal stand?

I agree it could be massively improved by adopting the rugby or cricket systems but I think too many vested interests are either grossly incompetent or worse and such an adoption would quickly confirm that.

I agree with some of the comments above about transparency of the decisions. Let's hear what the referee and the VAR operator are actually saying to each other, like in rugby. Everyone will then see why something is being checked and what is being checked and the verbal decision as to why or why not the award is made.

The current set-up we have leaves too much to unheard conversations and leaves the people involved wide open to accusations of corrupt decisions made in dark smoky rooms.

As mentioned above the only reason we are still talking about this two days after the game is that this decision has consequences for one of the Sky favourites. Countless bad decisions (although none as blatant as this one) are happening against the also-rans, week-in & week out, without any coverage. This needs to end now.

I don't watch rugby, so can't comment on their use of VAR, or whatever it's called. However, in the cricket, all reviews are shown on the big screen at the ground, with a clear commentary from the third umpire. The reviews in cricket don't seem to take anywhere near the length of time it takes the incompetent officials at Stockley Park the time to make their decisions either.

Maybe football should introduce the review system used in cricket, ie, the captain of each team is allowed three reviews per every 80 overs, this being when every new ball is due.

Obviously penalty decisions and offsides following a goal are automatically reviewed anyway by VAR, but say, dubious corner decisions like the one against West Ham earlier in the season, or the assault on Anthony Gordon by Shelvey at Newcastle, could have been asked to be looked at by Seamus. I'd recommend two reviews per team in a game for such situations.

What a bloody nerve this twat has on commenting about a poor refereeing decision:

Mark Clattenburg claims Everton were ‘robbed' and labels decision to not penalise Rodri's ‘clear' handball as ‘a shocker'

(Apologies for the webshite it came from!!!!!)

One of the comments I heard today was the nutcase on the VAR was looking at the wrong angle and I always thought that they can see it on more than one angle.

Another excuse was they couldn't tell if it was on the shirt sleeve or the arm, they thought it might have been touching more of the shirt than the arm, and that brought the question: what could you call if a player had a long-sleeved shirt on?

Excuses Excuses, Excuses because no one in authority just says, "Sorry, he just made a mistake," that 98% of people after seeing it said it was a penalty. Even the City manager. Talk about having no luck at the bottom.

I'm just amazed Klopp didn't appeal the decision!

Bill #35,

The problem is, if that incident was at the other end, they would have found the angle to give them the decision.

What is this pythonesque rubbish about shirt sleeves they are coming up with? What the hell has a shirt sleeve got to do with anything? Is there a rule 24(b) on shirt sleeve length?

What if a player has a bulbous bicep 💪 and the shirt sleeve is being sucked into his armpit? Whilst a stick-insect player wearing the same shirt has the sleeve dangling down. Or another shirt manufacturer has baggy shirt sleeves that tickle the elbow? Or some daring rebel goes for the long sleeve look?

Dear me, 2022 and we are listening to this nonsense.

If a player controls the ball with his arm, that's handball, end of story, whether the player has short sleeves, long sleeves or is stark bollock naked.

Here is the link to the BBC article.

Everton demand apology from Premier League for handball decision in Manchester City loss

Note the caption under the photograph of Rodri being caught red-handed, manipulating the position of the ball with his arm.

“Manchester City midfielder Rodri was not penalised when the ball hit his arm in the penalty area”

It was the ball's fault then. Makes me sick, this sort of reporting. Scoundrels they are.

It's like this, fellas: we are in the mire. Lampard, Cole and finally the players are up for the fight. We have to support them with everything we have got because, like it has always been since I was a boy, nobody else is going to help us.

Laurie #39,

I read that headline and thought exactly the same as you – it just makes them look ridiculous but they don't seem to realise it.

And yes, absolutely spot on – we need to stand as one and show them who we are.

Lynn @36.

Shame it didn't operate like Formula 1's last race. If Klopp had appealed by phone they would have given the penalty straight away.

Correct, he controlled the ball with his arm. Clear as day from my seat in the Upper Gwladys.

Tony #38.

Sammy Lee would have been all right then. Even with a short-sleeve shirt, it would still have been down to his knuckle-dragging fingers!

Good that it has galvanised the support even more than it already was but I'm over it. We can't do anything about it now so I'm focussing on the next 14 games and how we get 18 points from them.

We might not need to get to 40 but I would feel a lot happier if we did.

Most players these days are tucking their arms in tight to their bodies when defending the penalty box to avoid and handball situation. This is totally unnatural to an athlete because of balance etc and I hate it because they are so fearful of the ball accidentally hitting their hand or arm that the players are are giving up their natural right to defend properly.

What Rodri did was totally move his arm to control the ball and could even have been deemed a yellow card plus a penalty. If the ball had been heading towards the net and he'd done it, then it's a straight red.

I would like an apology and Kavanagh stood down because it was clear bias or incompetence.

VAR is a shit system anyway and has been spoiling the games for years now. We are human beings playing a simple game and should not have the fun taken out of goals being scored or waiting for some prick miles away to decide if a player's eyebrow was playing him offside. Give us back our game with real refs and we'll accept the mistakes.

Steve 44, agreed that we should let it go.

18 points though? We're unlikely to get close to that total. 12-14 points is a bit more realistic.

Danny # 14 - I hope Everton don't let it go. Niasse got a two match suspension for “an act of deception” in the box. Why doesn't it work both ways?

Everton's Oumar Niasse to serve two-match ban after his denial of FA charge was rejected.

Someone should remind them about that.

We'll probably get some dodgy as fuck penalty vs Boreham Wood – when it doesn't matter!

And then Spurs will get one vs us, when it does matter, to show – 'See, it all balances out in the end'

My arse it does.

Clever move because, if we are relegated by say one point, we can sue the Premier League like Sheffield Utd did with West Ham Utd.

They don't want transparancy, they want to cover up incompetent and corrupt officials. It seems that they are answerable to no-one.

Mike Riley was one of the worst refs so they put him in charge of them when he retired. Talk about the fox guarding the hen house.

Colin Glasser was on to it when he predicted Everton 0 Tierney 4.

Sorry for the late comment, but I am happy that Everton is complaining.

Why don't they go a step further and ask for the VAR ref to be suspended? We are not going to get a re-play or magically awarded points. But Kavanaugh should never come near another Everton game in any official role again. The Premier League should be so embarrassed by that non-call that they suspend or fire him immediately.

While watching the game in the US, I told my wife that the refs would say it was not a handball, but after the game state that they made an error, and should have called it. I still could not believe that was not called.

On the replay, you can see that Tierney is wrong-sided – he is looking behind and across Rodri, but that would not have stopped him from giving it at the other end.

Not sure how many from the US are here, but the announcers were stating during all of this - that is a clear handball, it is obvious that VAR should pick it up, and were moving forward (as if it had already been awarded). They were flabbergasted when it was not.

They were at a loss for any explanation, and the post game commentary with Rebecca Lowe and Tim Howard was more focused on the mystery "offside" call – if that was offside, then there is no handball.

It would be interesting to hear what they had to say post facto. Pep also mentioned the offside, but covered himself by saying he did not see it, he was told about it.

Three final thoughts:

1) We played well, had some chances in the first half, withstood a lot of pressure in the second half, until Holgate & Keane did us in again. I don't expect to see either here next season. Hopefully we can sustain that momentum. Maybe it was just having Doucouré in the midfield, and a capable midfield 3. 2) VAR is working as designed - it is protecting the big clubs. The people above who mention that it works great in Cricket and Rugby, where all discussions and views are public, have a great point. It was implemented with the Big 6 kicking and screaming, as they were worried that they wouldn't get the calls they historically could rely on. The current system still lets them benefit – change the eVAR system. Make the ref's comments public, show the VAR ref looking at a re-play. Broadcast the replay on the big screen, get the crowd on your side, screaming for a penalty.

3) What prevents us from broadcasting the replay on the big screen anyway? It was a blatant handball. If broadcast out in the stadium, and on the large screens, Tierney could no longer claim that he had not seen it.

Mike Riley has “personally” apologised to Bill and Frank. Wow!

But was it a penalty ? David James doesn't think so... what a bell-end.

Mark @53:

David James says he doesn't think so, which doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't think so.

Unbelievably, Cavanagh has been given the Burnley v Leicester match this week!🤦🏼‍♂️

Instead of being shot and buried in an unmarked grave.

That just shows there is no shame in curruption any more, Ray. Shame shame and more shame on the whole lot of them.

We have Kevin Friend as fourth official, and Jonathan Moss on VAR on Thursday evening.

If my memory serves me right, Laurie, that three man commission, even over-ruled the referee, Anthony Taylor, who said he still thought it was a penalty, after watching it again on TV.

That Kavanagh is reffing again in midweek tells us everything we need to know. And as for that horrible fat bastard, Moss, I'm still not convinced he'll be able to keep up with play. This is probably why they show everything in slow motion, to get their desired results.

I have read somewhere that both the ref for the Man City game and the VAR official both come from Manchester or live there. If this is true, how can even one be allowed to ref a game with a Manchester based side in, let alone both of them?! Conflict of interest before a ball is even kicked!

I have thought for a long time that the spectre of corruption runs through football at the top level. It happens in things like cycling, cricket and athletics so not a big stretch to think football could be infected by it. Especially with the money in the game now and how much people can make from betting on it.

Not accusing anyone directly of anything but you would have to be very naive to think it wasn't a possibility... especially after the baffling refereeing decisions we see, week-in and week-out now.

Ken (51),

You say that Holgate and Keane were to blame for the goal but watch it again and look at Coleman's and Iwobi's positioning in the build-up before the ball goes out wide for the cross.

Both are dragged into the middle for no apparent reason, leaving 2 City players free on our right-hand side with all the time in the world. If they had been in their correct positions, then the ball wouldn't have come into the box in the first place.

Everton should have made a public statement that we now fear that decisions will go against us as a result of our complaints. Then, any dodgy decision and we say ‘I told you so', maybe it would make referees think twice.

I wonder how many of the ref's family and friends had a bet on City to win away? That's defo something that has to be looked into.

"Tell you what, love, I've got Everton vs City tonight. Put a few hundred quid on City, I will book a few of Everton's players which practically takes them out of the game in terms of tackling and I will let City's centre-backs get away with poor tackling all game."

This was sent by me to info@premierleague.com, info@kenwright.com and my local MP (contact details on web) - why don't we all do the same.

Dear Mike Riley

Apologies are not enough. Can you assure me by return email that premier league referees will be “neutral” from now on, and that all referees will be asked to sign a “Register of Interests” which reveal their support for, and past association with clubs. Can you assure me that this register will be used to ensure impartial officiating in future games.

This email copied in to the right honourable Bill Esterson MP

Terence Connell