Everton lose appeal against controversial Allan red card

Did we expect any different from those useless idiots though?

Club Statement

Yet a few seasons ago, Son had steam coming out of his ears, hell bent on injuring Gomes, in a retaliation tackle, yet his Red card got rescinded.

Getting ridiculous now the times it is happening to us.

The referee was trying to find a way to penalise us.

The TV coverage too.

The push on Gordon was a clear penalty. Yet just one brief replay.

Same with the Coleman tackle in the box where he was screaming for a penalty.

And the off the ball shove on Richarlison?

Compared with all of that, how could the Allan thing be a clear and obvious error?

And add it to the Shelvey challenge at St James' that robbed us of 3 points and the Rodri handball that robbed us of a point.

It's much worse than swings and roundabouts. It's not right.

But has a VAR decision ever been overturned on appeal?

It's quite possible that we could get relegated because of two dodgy decisions - one cost us a point, this one cost us our best midfielder for three games.

We're fighting the wrong battle here. The outrage for me is the clear and obvious foul on Gordon that was immediately waved away and not given any time or thought whatsoever by VAR. It'd be hard to find a more obvious penalty and I'd bet a huge amount of money that the exact same incident, were it to involve Mr Salah, would be given as a penalty 100% of the time.

We can have our own views about what that ought to mean, or there's the common interpretation. But what do the laws of the game say?

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

'Serious foul play' is defined as when "Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

Allan lunged. Fine. The law says nothing about the second leg being in the air.

So the question is whether he used "excessive force" or "endagered the safety of an opponent". I really can't make an argument for either of these being the case.

How was this not overturned?!

But as Lampard alludes to, the ref had a clear view and it wasn't a clear and obvious error so he shouldn't even have been asked to look at it.

I thought the ref was ok overall. Richarlison and Gordon need to cut out their diving. Gordon in particular is very disappointing. He finds himself in good positions in games and seems more concerned with winning a penalty than producing a chance.

We've seen a much worse tackle by Shelvey at Newcastle when we were 1 nil up. Failure to give him the Red he deserved in the letter of the law probably robbed us of a win.

And so on and so on.

Henderson makes that tackle and gets a yellow.

Salah gets a push in the box (like Gordon did) it's a penalty.

Burn pushes over Firminho (like he did Richarlison) off the ball it's a red and the commentators will replay it endlessly and say well you just can't do that sort of thing so he can have no complaints with his red card.

The letter of the rule is the same for everyone. But in practice we're playing by a different set of rules to others.

Howard Webb says he should be fired as a ref 2016
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Keith Hackett criticism 2022
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Alan Shearer on Pawson bias against Palace 2016:
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anti Arsenal bias 2019
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anti Arsenal bias 2021
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anti Liverpool 2021
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Pawson accused of anti Liverpool and anti Spurs bias 2022:
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There was a change.org petition to get him fired by fans in general last year
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A red card was bad enough but giving the full three match ban for that is ludicrous. If there was an ounce of fairness they would have made it a one match ban. Very disappointing (even a partisan Alan Shearer says the red was harsh), the panel's interpretation of this is extremely unfair and difficult to accept.

I think your view is a bit OTT but from my view, in slow motion, with both his feet off the ground, he looked to be out of control and reckless so I wasn't surprised by the red card even if it was one of those that looks worse then it was in freeze frame. But it wasn't a "clear and obvious" error in my view. My bigger issue was the smug, obviously bias way he called the entire game with absolutely no attempt to make fair calls. The red card gets the most attention as it is the most damaging call but he had multiple more obviously bad calls specifically against Everton all night.

And the Geordies opposite me knew it.

“... a shocking piece of anti-football and deserved the harshest punishment.”

Yep, it was a shocking piece of anti football, like we see every week, fouls which the commentators refer to as “taking one for the team”. Yet how many are red cards? Don't bother to answer, I will tell you. None.Always a yellow.

I saw The bloater Shaw, United full-back, hack someone down, forget who, running at full pelt and receive a yellow in what was described as a professional foul. No mate, the fact that these decisions are at the VAR's or referee's discretion make the likelihood of corruption a definite.

Before last night's game Keith Hackett said Atwell should not be on VAR or refereeing for a while based on his recent form:

“Attwell was in the middle of controversial decisions in two games last weekend.

“He gave a penalty to Norwich City for what he considered, from a very good position, to be be a foul by [Luke] Ayling. But he guessed. He has to have guessed.

“You should not need VAR to see that the player has in face stood on Ayling's leg.

“Are we talking about a referee in form? He clanged decisions as the referee and as the VAR official last weekend. It was a poor performance. “He needs a rest. He needs time off.

“When you are dealing at Premier League level, you are supposed to be the best in the country. I think Attwell is a competent referee but like players, referees run out of form.”

So naturally, they give him the Everton cup game after he proved Hackett's point.

We have been given poor treatment by the refs but perhaps Richarlison and Gordon could stop the play-acting, it's fucking embarrassing and often costing us as teams counter while we have a man on the turf. Allan is bursting with dissent over each and every decision.

There is however no doubt that the refs are hell-bent on punishing us – especially after the apology.

As someone said on the match report... we probably wouldn't have won without the outrage – it certainly gave us impetus.

It was the type of challenge we see every week, whereby a player “takes one for the team”, knowing full well he's going to receive a yellow card, but has stopped a breakaway for the opposition, which could lead to a goal.

I could understand if this challenge had been made with Saint- Maximin having a clear run on goal, and therefore resulting in a “last man scenario”, but FFS, it happened on the halfway line, with no danger whatsoever on our goal.

The referee was no more than 5 yards away from the incident, with a clear view, so how the fuck can it be a “Clear and obvious error” by the referee to warrant the VAR getting involved?

Most commentators said Goodison was up for it – but was it Bayern Munich'85 revisited?

Just give us five more like it this season, and we will be okay. Along with an FA Cup final.

The upside was the justified sense of injustice fed the ground. As Eddie Howe said, the crowd won it. We need more quality as well as the commitment, of course we do, but last night reminded me why I love the game.

The replay shows his foot off the ground and that is the detail that gave those twats the chance to impose the letter of the law.

I think the conspiracy within the officials and the VAR is to do all they can to ensure Everton go down. Well, that's the way it seems to me, too many outrageous decisions going against us. But I did say after we demanded an apology, they would come after us big time – even as much as a fart down wind and they would have us.

Sunday choice of ref says it all, adding the VAR for the first time ever for the two quarter-final Championship games, against the elite darlings drawn away.

strap yourselves in folks, we are no longer fighting on a fair playing field, 11 v 11.

It is time for the respectable teams to leave the FA and start their own honest league. Leave the corrupt six to it and any other club stupid enough to follow them.

Just as a side note, for the life of me I cannot understand the sending off for Raul Jiminez tonight. The Leeds keeper comes charging out of his area, I still can't see who wins the ball, yet Kevin Friend is so quick to produce a second yellow for Jiminez who had every right to challenge for a loose ball. Referees in this country are definitely the worst ones in world football.

It's been widely accepted by most in football that the Man City handball incident was one of the worst VAR mistakes since its inception, and looks really bad for the competence of English referees (which was already at an all-time low).

The club/manager basically questioned the integrity of the referring standards for all to see with their complaint. I'd imagine that apology was begrudgingly given as they've never really owned up for their many flaws in the past.

The club has basically embarrassed them as we've called them out in public on their standard. I expect we're on top of their shit list (if we weren't already) from now on, and would imagine we won't see anything to go in our favour for the rest of the season.

In the past when clubs including ourselves have had pretty poor decisions go against them, they'll have some fortunate ones go in their favour, to balance things out.

I think that the Allan red from last night proves that they are doing things deliberately not in our favour for the considerable future.

I think the opposite of you. I think Allan did well to make it a ‘clean' foul, avoiding the knee and ankle. This nonsense about being off the ground is only of significance if it's a two-footed challenge. Most tackles are performed by a leg well off the ground and the other foot is very rarely planted.

Complain about cynical fouls not getting reds all you like but I think it's ridiculously extreme to view Allan's challenge as really one of the dangerous ones.

Same goes for Jimenez's second yellow. He's got punished for flinching first in a game of chicken. Even if you think he deserves a yellow, how often do you see players on a yellow get let off with another clear yellow because refs don't seem to like to send players off unless there is obvious malice.

I think Jimenez only looks like the bad guy (to someone who thinks there is always someone to blame) because he opts to go defensive before Meslier who therefore comes off somewhat second best in the collision.

Jimenez clearly didn't maintain his challenge for the ball but had no way to avoid the collision without potentially ending up totally off balance – and therefore wholly out of control – at the point of impact.

To me it is a ref expecting players to be robots with some sort of collision avoidance set-up. Absolutely zero ‘feel' for the game.

But if I can get past that. Maybe. Maybe I can get past that. I don't agree with a red but I can try to get past it.

How do we have an organisation dealing with billions at stake and disregarding their own rules?

The VAR was brought in to assist referees. Give them another look where they hadn't seen it. Or give them another look when they've simply made a mistake and got something clearly wrong.

That's not what happened here. He saw it, and he judged it. It's not coincidence that he saw it the way everybody else did.

Then they re-refereed it in slow motion and still images. Does someone want to tell me where that's in the rules?

The league was very clear about how it would use the VAR. They didn't want games to be re-refereed. So they established rules around it. On Thursday night they broke their own rules.

Whether you think that should be a red card or not actually doesn't matter in that context. The referee and the VAR had no grounds to change a decision fairly reached on the pitch.

There must be some means of taking this ban to arbitration. There's a contract between clubs and the league. The league keeps breaking that and refusing to backtrack.

And the Jimenez sending off tonight, another shocking decision. What pisses me off, the refs don't have to explain their decisions.

Look at how professionals the Rugby Union officials are, the players and spectators can see and hear every decision in the stadium, they don't talk down to players.

There are two many attempts by Everton players in forward positions trying to buy free-kicks and penalties. I would prefer they stay on their feet and use the ball. Both Richarlison (a serial offender) and Gordon give up threatening play to try and buy a penalty. Coleman was blocked off the ball, which looked like a genuine foul. He clear believed he was fouled as other Everton players did.

The problem with this all, is that genuine penalty claims may be lost to Everton forwards having dying-swan reputations.

This is in no way a clear and obvious error by Pawson, so why on earth does the VAR have to get involved?

If this can be construed as a clear and obvious error, then quite simply Craig Pawson is not capable of refereeing a Premier League game, and should immediately be struck off the referees panel.

You often hear the commentators say the VAR is reviewing an incident for a possible red card offence so I don't have a problem with them checking that the referee hasn't missed something obvious.

My simple objection is there was nothing in the replays I could see that demonstrated that the referee had made a clear and obvious error. It was all evident from his original position. A cynical professional foul. A ‘strong' yellow for the effort made to stretch to trip a player in full stride. But nothing that doesn't happen on a regular basis with only a yellow for punishment.

I'm getting fed up with some people trying to make out the challenge was worse than it was. It is never what anyone with sense would call two-footed. That term is for when the feet are together. None of the professionals, including Clattenburg, thought it was in the dangerous category.

Anthony Gordon does also crumple theatrically with minimal contact.

For the penalty claim, Gordon is certainly knocked over from behind. The issue according to the commentators was whether he had initiated the contact himself by moving across the defender's line. I”m sure that has often been described as clever play without anyone questioning the resultant penalty.

Seamus, however, had lost balance and was crumpling into Guimarães more than anything else. Guimarães was able to get a solid foot on the ball as well even though he was facing his own goal.

I agree that was no penalty, just a great shame that Seamus's fantastic effort to wriggle through came to nought.

Wolves has the game won and there was a collision with Jimenez and Leeds goalie miles out of his area. Needless to as,y the bent officials sent Jimenez off and Leeds came back from 2-0 down to win 3-2.

Disgrace.

I think Leeds will be safe. They're 7 points clear of Watford. Burnley need to win all three games in hand to get above them. The bottom three are on course to make no more than 30 points. Leeds already have 29. With 8 games left one win could be enough to save them.

Even if say Burnley up the ante, lose six and win two puts Leeds at 35 points. I think realistically we are the only side still in the mix with the bottom three. Yes, we have games in hand... but a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

Is the conspiracy against Everton? Or is it pro Leeds? If the former, I can't see the logic. Why would the EPL want to lose one of the biggest and best supported clubs and retain lightweights like Watford or ugly football teams like Burnley?

If the EPL wanted to get rid of us all they have to do is nail us for FFP. I don't think there's a conspiracy. I think there are shit referees and I think there are individual refs who are biased. But I don't think there is a conspiracy to relegate us.

Here are the VAR protocols. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297352

That's the basis on which the clubs voted it in. Remember that the clubs own the Premier League.

The process for this incident is to check whether he's made a clear and obvious error regarding a subjective decision. The VAR is supposed to ask the ref what he saw, and if it appears that he made a clear and obvious error then they can recommend an overturn.

What could Pawson possibly have said that would indicate he didn't really judge that situation correctly from 10 yards away? I'm assuming he said that Allan deliberately brought the player down to stop the attack, hence the yellow card.

At that point VAR has no remit to say that despite the ref deeming that to be a yellow, he might want to consider issuing a red instead. That's not how VAR works. Or at least not how it's supposed to work.

They're going to defend themselves using words like 'lunge', 'out of control', and 'studs showing'. That is true of every single tackle. No-one has their feet planted in the ground while challenging. Players of the game at any level understand what those things actually mean. Allan just brought him down to stop the attack. Cynical, yes. Dangerous, no. Those words get them out of every bit of incompetence they show.

Compare that to Son, who deliberately fouled Gomes out of frustration rather than cynicism. That act was subsequently deemed to be ok. Is cynicism worse than retribution?

That's one less team that is in the mix with us, unless we bag the games in hand.

When you are down there, you want as many teams as possible to be around you, rather than just 4 teams, if one of the lower teams get a run, Leeds losing would have at least had another team there with you, what you do not want is the teams just above your opening a gap.

Frank Lampard is making himself heard in a good way but it's not him they dislike, it's us as a club the dislike. It seems these decisions are based along those lines.

Early in the game Doucouré had gone in on Joelinton and flicked his elbow at him as he came away from the challenge so I think we got away with one there for sure. He's actually playing a little bit uncontrolled right now Doucouré and needs to get some discipline back into his high energy game.

Richarlison does my head in with his theatrical behaviour and Anthony Gordon has been following suit so I think Lampard needs to address this. Having said that I now think that challenge on Gordon in the box was a penalty even though he initiated the shove by cleverly stepping in.

So it looks like we are going to be playing against 12 men every game or even 13 including the pricks back at the VAR HQ. Lampard has got to get the remnants of this squad organized and disciplined because we need all players on the park fighting in every game. Center forward is a must from here on in.

I feel that we got away with the best result possible because Newcastle are not much better than us. We were struggling again and showing real poor quality until the momentum shifted late on and we got a great winner from an unlikely hero in Iwobi.

He could actually have been taken off earlier such was his passive demeanor in taking players on and use of the ball. It's clear he needs constant reassurance and arms around him to gee him up. There's a player in there somewhere but high energy running alone won't do and he has to brave and just go for it. Hopefully this goal helps him.

I reckon Lampard will make a few changes for the FA Cup tie and just tell them to give it a go and enjoy it. His focus is on the Premier League.

Why? Because the Referee is supposed to control the game...not some Berk in Stockley Park.

VAR should before the Referee to check His Own View - "did I see what I thought I saw? roll the tape, Yes, the ball was over the line (or whatever)"
"OK, thought so (or not)"
He then confirms or amends His decision - not some puppet master in Stockley Park.

Rodri; The Referee thinks No Penalty, waves Play On. Massive complaints.
Maybe I've got it wrong...No clear decision.
Stockely Park says No!
There was no clear and obvious error by you.
Play On.

Allan; Referee makes clear decision - Yellow Card.
This is were the lack of transparency and accountability come in

The Newcastle players...as is the fashion now...want a red card.
Does Stockley Park take a look and call a red before the protest, because of the protest or, off their own bat??

Again with the transparency, accountability and consistency

They overrule The Referee...who, as the supposed man in charge, made a clear and obvious decision - where's the problem?

The real problem is; Who actually Referees the game? The Referee? Stockley Park? Or should that be The Premier League.

Confused? It's probably part of the plan.

Either that or a giant rolling cock-up...I don't know which is worse.

Kenny's was also harsh the other day. He barely touched him for that second challenge. He lunged in but look at it again. Minimal contact, really. Ref couldn't wait to pull out the second yellow.

There are reds all over the media why not the referees too?

Look at the Clattenburg derby. Have you ever seen such corrupt refereeing.

On the face of it I agree but I know a guy who's good mates with Twatenburg who says he got intimidated by Gerard and co and admits he fucked up that game.

What I can't fathom is why the EPL would benefit from Everton being relegated. Surely the EPL want teams with big fan bases that are marketable?

Now with regard to winning titles, OK they may be corrupt and favor “big teams” but why in the fuck would it benefit the EPL to relegate a team attracting 40,000 per game with a rich history and fans all over the world?

It makes no sense financially. The EPLs loss would be the EFLs gain. Whether we were good or shit Everton would attract a lot of interest and money to the EFL that would not be offset by Fulham or Bournemouth.

Newcastle are now the richest club in the world. Not the best obviously but planning to become the No1 team in England. As my grandad always used to say - there's only one universal language in life - MONEY ! We have played Newcastle twice and twice been on the wrong side of potential game changing decisions. Shelvey should have been sent off on Tyneside because his tackle on Gordon was everything a red card calls for. Over aggressive, two footed scissor tackle and endangering an opponent. Not even booked. However Allans' was a trip. Taking one for the team. I hate the tackle and I hate the term for it. However it goes on all the time. The biggest culprits are City. Its a tactic Pep used at Barcelona. Busquets did it all the time. Now its been Fernandinho for several seasons who gets away with it.

Sons tackle on Gomes was a deliberate attempt to hurt Gomes after Son thought he had been fouled by Gomes. When he didn't get the foul he went after him. His tackle didn't actually cause the injury but it lead to it. He was out of control and trying to injure an opponent - red card over turned.

Shaw for United hacked down Lucas Moura, in a manner that was aggressive and dangerous - yellow card.

Luca Digne sent off at Southampton in Oct 2020 - accident but still a red card. It was reduced to a one match ban. It wasn't a red card offence !! Yet he still got a ban.

Niasse is still the only player to be banned in retrospect for a perceived dive against Crystal Palace. Mane and Salah are at it all the time. If you breath on them they go down. How many penalties have they won. I say won because that is what they do - con the ref. He touched me and I fell - its a pen !!!

Now my final argument that something is going on is this. No one blinked an eye when Abramovich bought CFC. No one complained when the arabs bought City. However when Newcastle were bought by the Saudis there was uproar - who by ? Well lets say the big 6 weren't happy. They have a nice little club and don't want anyone gatecrashing their little party. Newcastle are too big for the so called top 6 to do anything about now. The shortage of oil makes it a certainty the Saudis will be around for a while.

Stuart Attwell, who is incompetent is to ref the Cup match. You can't make this up !!

We are treated differently its that simple. Powerful teams get away with things that we never will. I won't mention the Dirk Kuyt tackle - oops I did.

Some may say it will backfire on us, but I think the reason they get away with it is because, in the past, we have said nothing, done nothing.

The Man City handball controversy is a case in point. It had all football fans questioning it. Okay an apology wasn't any use to us, but the fact they had to issue one says something. Don't let the buggers grind us down.

I was refereeing for my son's Under-11s 2 years ago and a lot of kids were calling for fouls, handballs and falling over for the slightest touch because of what they see on TV. I had to call all the players to the centre and tell them that I would not be giving any fouls or handballs at all – they needed to just play the game. There was no calling out after that and the game was great. All the parents agreed.

The players themselves are a disgrace and we have one of the worst ever in Richarlison. I'll be glad to see the back of him if I'm honest, the miserable-looking sod.

Cheating players make life hard for referees and I believe there needs to be action taken against cheating. I'd love Lampard to address this and put his foot down at the club about it.

Strangely enough, Saint-Maximin did not make anything big about the tackle we are all talking about. For me, it was a yellow but, if that had been against one of our players, then I may have called it red.

The ref was in the perfect position to see it, so he was clearly being told to overrule his own decision and that stinks of corruption between them bastards.

Looking for an explanation for some of the decisions, I expect that the refs have regular zoom calls. Imagine the chat. They will all have their own teams that they support. The current top five will, no doubt, have most of them as fans.

We are an easy target, and traditionally have been their teams' competitors. We are seen as a club who have wasted £500,000 and ended up in the relegation scrap.

We are also seen as potentially rivals for their favourites, whilst Burnley and Watford are not. Many plastic reds would like to see us relegated, you only have to look at social media to see that.

Mancs hate us, almost as much as our neighbours and with an ex-chelsea manager, we now will be despised by Spurs, Arsenal etc, etc. We are an easy target. So these refs have their chit-chat, they all support the top 5, so who can they all hit hard?

We do have a couple of Tom Daleys in the team. They will get nothing for their antics. Gordon did get his leg in front of the defender... but he is entitled to do that. The defender bumped him and over he went.

If it was Salah, it would have been given and the commentator would have said it was clever play. As it was Everton, the commentator and Shearer pronounced that Gordon was trying to buy a penalty.

Anthony didn't do himself any favours by earlier going over far too easily. They have earmarked him as a diver, and the TV people won't argue against it.

As for Allan, he has been earmarked too, as a slow, grumpy, cynical fouler. All these are true. He had already given the ref several mouthfulls and the official was only too pleased to give him his red card.

We are an easy target, and only Frank continuing his crusade can make these buffoons rethink. We have been far too compliant for far too long.

Take Shockley Park and the cretins that operate there who don't know the left wing from the right wing on a football pitch.

I've watch Rugby Union Six Nations and at least they get decisions made in a timely and ethical manner.

We live in hope.

“Having said that I now think that challenge on Gordon in the box was a penalty even though he initiated the shove by cleverly stepping in”.

Do you, and everybody else remember the penalty awarded to the RS at palace a few weeks back, when Jota did exactly the same as Gordon did on Thursday? Jota had overrun the ball which had gone out for a goal kick, so Jota stepped in and leaned into the defender and down he went. At first the referee, Kevin Friend, gave a goal kick, but on the advise of the VAR, looked at the pitch side monitor and gave a penalty. Exactly the same as Anthony Gordon on Thursday, only the one on Gordon was far more blatant, it was a clear shove by the Newcastle defender, yet Pawson was not even advised to look at the pitch side monitor.

I keep flip-flopping between us being doomed, and staying up. After Thursday I'm thinking we'll be all right, but it is concerning seeing them all picking up wins… Lots of twists and turns to go!

Shelvey scissor tackle in the reverse fixture was only deemed a yellow. All pros came out and send it was a red. No review.

No handball against City. Allan's is a yellow card every day a week.

Football us corrupt.

Let's just call it out. Var was meant to end the bad decisions, the Premier league are making worst decisions with the benefit of video evidence. Only the Premier league could gp backwards with technology improvement.

To my surprise, she said yellow.

That will do for me.

They are the only people who are involved in a game yet carry no accountability as to why they arrived at their decisions. The managers have to face the press within minutes of a game ending, yet no official is ever interviewed. They are now so incompetent that clubs survival is being threatened every week by their incompetence. Last night Jimenez was sent off when it was more Meslier who caught him rather than the other way round. This decision completely changed the game up to that point Leeds trailed by 2-0 and it could have been 5 but that appalling decision gave them a lifeline and they took it.

It is time "little old" Everton started standing up and crying, at least, foul! Apologies are all well and good but what is being done to improve the situation? Perhaps raising the possibility of bringing in to run VAR people not connected to the game in England and may be even UK.

Somebody, somewhere has to stop this, at best, inefficiency which seems already, out of control.

Leeds, dead and buried, are gifted a very dodgy sending off courtesy of our 'Friend' Kevin to assist with their fight for survival. Everton are marked for elimination from the EPL under its covert one club per city diversification plan (excepting the ESL six in Mancland and Lahn Dahn of course). VAR is only there as insurance to help deliver the 'right' result.

Any manager who speaks out is not only fined, but knows these bastards will double down on their teams. Riley's Putinite organisation needs to be eliminated for the good of football.

Even state owned monopolies like the National Lottery are made to go through a tendering process every few years.
No such mechanism seems to exist for ensuring that EPL officialdom is of a high standard and is free of corruption, both individually and collectively. And those of you who still think there's no corruption should study what happened to Olympic boxing.

The current game is more or less contact free compared to pre prem era.

Each game is littered with tactical fouls, applying your rules there would be at least 1 red per game.

The shite are the best at it, lots of minor fouls in the middle of the park to disrupt play and get organised. How you can be so offended by the one an Everton player does in the heat of a relegation battle is beyond me.

If he lets him run past everyone would be calling him fit to burn for not stopping him.

If you want contact free watch basketball. I actually want to see more contact cynical or otherwise. It's a sport and entertainment not a game of chess.

The lack of consistency is troubling with these refs. Last night Moutinho went studs up on Dallas around knee height. No red card no var. That's a lot more dangerous and career threatening than a trip but nothing happened.

The Jimenez red card, if he gets the ball first he scores. It's a 50/50 why does there have to be a booking for that?

The game has gone. The worst refs I can remember plus var is ruining the game not enhancing it. Oh and having the appeal rejected is also a joke. You watch this weekend how many cynical fouls there are and how many straight reds are given out. The whole thing is looking more corrupt year on year.

I wholeheartedly agree with all you have said, the problem is that for to long we have allowed appeals of all differing types be judged by their peers. So its no wonder that politicians always refuse independent enquiries and instead allow other corrupt politicians to adjudicate, same as the police and the press who have all gotten away with appalling things.

Are refs really independent I ask because some of their decisions that are often questioned by ex refs ex players smack of having an agenda. I am sure Mike Riley having to phone Kenwright and Lampard to apologise for the decisions taken by both the on field and VAR refs decision against City will have probably irked some of their colleagues. So what better way of getting their reprisal by issuing a red card when the original decision to award a yellow was correct. Remember Ancelotti being sent off he is surely one of the mildest managers refs have had to deal with yet Klopp berates 4th officials and often comes onto the pitch after the game and argues with the ref, but no action is ever taken against him. Going back Alex Ferguson did exactly the same but rarely punished. So how can we believe there is no agenda from refs and officials.

Allan's foul at Anfield by a RS player would have been a yellow, no referral to VAR. The second yellow at Wolves last night would not even have been given as a foul if it was a Man City player. The refs simply feel much more comfortable about making borderline decisions at places like Goodison and against teams like Everton and Wolves.

Same with VAR, the scrutiny on the decision is much greater if it happens to the Shite, or to Citteh. The refs think there is so much more at stake for the top 2 who are worldwide brands, whereas us getting relegated won't worry anyone except our relatively small fanbase.

It's not like these are conscious thoughts by the refs, it's just so deeply ingrained in their psyche that they can't help themselves. They are, by nature, cowards.

2022 F.A Cup Winners...no one!...sounds good to me!

Everton F.C...moral winners... another Everton first! and fans around the world would thank us... believe me,this shite needs to end NOW.

Having said that - the bastards.

PS. You can get 14/1 for Brentford to get relegated. Got to be worth a tenner.

No conspiracy, just the mediocre behaving as they do when they are given a special uniform.

Every time there is a foul like Allen's, Atwell can tell the ref to go to the screen. Every time there is a handball like Rhodrie's, the VAR ref, can say there wasn't a clear and obvious error. Make them do only one job and it probably wouldn't take us long to find out if they were actually cheating or just plain incompetent.

It is clear they don't want to be kicked out the cosy club, so they play lip service to making fair, impartial decisions.

The beauty of sport is that fair play should win the day. Not fear of being threatened by the footballing elite.

Even before the ref has got to the monitor, his whole way of thinking and mindset has changed, he starts doubting himself, then when he is not seeing it in real time, it looks worse than what he first saw, so in a way yes I do have a little pity for some refs, to be fair I thought The ref had a decent game until then, didn't fall for players from both sides going down in the middle of the pitch, oh yes each and everyone jumped back up, when play carried on.

However he had his mind changed by var, the very var system that saw the most blantent handball ever, in a var game, when Rodri controlled and clearly handled the ball, yet the ref that Day,was never advised to go and have a look at the Monitor by var.

They tried it at Anfield when we won two nil, the ref gave a penalty, var tried to do us out of it by asking the ref to go and look at the Monitor, that is the only ref I can think of, who had the balls to stick to his decision, but let's not forget, it was inside an empty stadium, would he have had the same balls, in front of a hostile crowd.

Next they'll accuse him of using chemical weapons when he farts

I can imagine Russian scientists reading that and already thinking "Well, maybe. We should work on this".

haha no kidding

Absolutely nothing will improve until that happens. Such a move will be strongly resisted. Why ? What are such powerful, professional, top class referees frightened of ?

1 Because the licence for bias will be largely removed
2 Incompetence will be throughly exposed on a weekly basis
3 They don't like their power to be questioned or challenged. ( I expect more harsh VAR decisions before the end of the season as retribution for forcing an apology)

That Jimenez decision was awful. Another one.

Setting aside the details and reasons why, the implementation of the whole VAR system has left things overly worse than it was without it, at least in the area of disciplinary decisions. It needs addressing.

Some teams look as though they are coached in it as well as not retiring at free kicks in order to give their defence time to reorganize (thank heavens for shaving foam?) and I'd say it extends as far as deliberate barging into players backs, and we all know how corners have degenerated to shirt pulling, push and shove contests. I could go on about the last time a throw-in was taken at the right place and if I could change one rule (heaven knows some changes have been awful and cause even more confusion) it would be to double the size of the corner arc and if any player fails to put the ball inside the line (not on it) then it becomes a goal kick.

It's a good job you didn't follow us in the 80's Mike otherwise you would winced at Everton overcoming Bayern in the CPWCSF of 85 or been traumatised by Andy Gray's header in 84 in the FA Cup final.

So many times we hear the bullshit around "Momentum" and such as an excuse for a collision that we all know could have been avoided or mitigated. I didn't see that last night. Or deliberate intent.

There have been times when it's patently accidental and no booking is made.

That looked 100% a fair attempt at an outfield-type tackle on the 'keeper to me. They both went for the ball with one foot at no more than ball height. Meslier just about got there first. Jimenez looked like he tried to put the brakes on and raised his arms. His body also went past Meslier to the side, not into him.

Ed #102, no argument with you either, but the rules -- and their enforcement -- are very different than they were 40 years ago. Under today's conditions, Roy Keane would have a different career, and we might never have heard of Ruddock, Pearce or Vinnie Jones. I understand that you don't consider this evolution to be a good thing, but it's a fact of life.

Eddie #101, I don't remember where I saw it, but one of the TV networks did a video analysis on just that question a couple of years ago, and came up with an average figure of 8.6 yards. I see the same thing all the time. Drives me crazy.

Link

Jimenez' right hand/ lower forearm possibly grazed the top of the 'keeper's nugget, and not deliberately. Other than that I don't know where any concussing impact could have come from.

You may be right in as far as the inevitability of a booking sometimes, for the sake of action being taken. Not justified here though IMO.

We definitely should have had a penalty against Man City, no question. I would just love the VAR to be jibbed completely cos it's an absolute joke, it totally ruins the game. It takes ages to come to decisions and the fans don't have a clue what's going on. It's the thing I despise the most about football today. It's not needed, as far as I'm concerned.

But it comes down to:

1. Competency of the officials.

2. Confusion of the rules and subsequent confused interpretation of the rules. Football can and should be a simple game.

3. Accountability. No system will ever be 100%, but Rugby Union is in a far better place in terms of competency, application of the rules, accountability and use of VAR technology. They are audibly heard discussing and explaining their decisions. Of course they also know what they're talking about, but that public and global accountability makes them think hard about a decision and explain it.

The technology is not the problem in my opinion. It is the egotistic, star struck and biased officials and their application of it.

It was supposed to and can fix the many wrongs of the past - we've had many. Okay, teething problems in terms of implementation, but the underlying problem remains those charged with making the decisions both on the pitch and at Stockley Park.

I like the idea of being a Video Assistant or an on-the-pitch Referee, but never the twain should meet.

Difference = Everton of course.

Again, that's the modern game. Go in hard, don't get the ball, injure the other player (especially the keeper, who gets extra protection), it's a card. Every time. Like it or not, that's just the way it's called today. Raul knew it. That's why he didn't really protest much.

Rob #112, we both remember a different game, but that's all changed. It's about money, of course. Players are highly paid assets and the clubs and leagues want them protected. That's why the true hard man is an extinct species.

This telling the ref to have a look at the screen doesn't work properly as it stands because soon as the var official tells the ref to have a look at it, he automatically thinks because var has had more time to see it that he the Ref needs to change his first decision.

Indeed - there's also the option for the VAR official of whether to ignore an error and not inform the ref at all.

I was thinking what would have happened if Allan had already been booked before that incident. Obviously we will never know. My best guess is that Allan would have been given a second yellow and sent off and no VAR review would have materialised.

I see maybe a bit of left knee to high outer right thigh, hard to tell clearly. Some reports mentioned possible head injury even though keeper did hop/carry his leg a bit when going off.

Jimenez closed quickly to the ball same as Meslier, and missed out on it by a fraction of a second. He didn't follow through, didn't extend his leg through, didn't try to trip, didn't use his second leg and didn't push his arms out at him. He all but missed him altogether. It could just as easily be called going in fast, as called hard. He went for the ball. Accidental. He didn't need to book him.

Problem is, if officials try or default to interpreting accidental collision after a genuine and legal attempt to tackle as somehow foul or reckless, it's all over.

If I didn't love this club so much I'd remove it from my life, but there again why should I?

The system is obviously corrupt, do these pricks study at the Kremlin?

MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, EPL, MLS, Boxing too. Every one has lousy refs/umpires. Its incompetence, not corruption or bent refs.

VAR:

Fix the offside rule to judging it by foot position only, no other part of the body.

Penalty calls to minimize diving's effect on a game.

Both of these have a major impact on goals and so the result and should be paramount.

VAR should not be used for maybe/maybe not red card fouls. That's what appeals are for. VAR has its importance. Just keep its usage to a minimum.

The game's been played since the 19th century in leagues with officiating teams. It's survived all these years based on eyeball real-time decisions by officials. There's no sudden need for "2nd opinion" officiating except in the instances I wrote above because of their direct effect on the whole object of the game; score goals.

And nothings going to stop poor officiating. Never has and never will.

Brian #90 I think the ref that day was Kris Kavanagh and the VAR was a check on a red card for T.A.A. not the penalty. So a wrong decision.

I find it amusing with the lengths Dermott Gallagher goes to justify the cock ups his former colleagues make. The City penalty the most outlandish.

After the Allan red card he claimed things where improving because Atwell, after his fuck up at the Brighton Liverpool game had learned from his mistake and made the right call with Allan.

Now the scary part When questioned regarding whether VAR specialists where required he replied. that as Referees retire they will move to Stockley park. Lee Mason is already there permanently No doubt Jon Moss and Rowan sorry Martin Atkinson to follow shortly

IMO the VAR should be advising the on-field referee throughout the whole game, making sure the correct decision is made wherever possible.

If we take the Newcastle game as the example, then I have no issue with Allan being sent off for what was cheating and could have injured his opponent. However, the VAR would have highlighted Burn catching Gordon on the Achilles from behind and recommended a yellow. It would have also suggested a yellow for his off-the-ball push on Richarlison.

It also would have told the ref that it was an obvious corner to Newcastle when it clearly came off Coleman.

There doesn't need to be an announcement every time these checks are made because players will know that the VAR is always watching. Much like they do in Rugby.

Instead of this, we've ended up with a situation where cheating can only be called out if it's deemed worthy of red or happens during the build-up to a goal.

This is obviously just my opinion.

COYB