ToffeeHouse Chatroom — Matchweek 8

I see juve trying to wriggle out of paying us 34 big ones for Keane by looking for someone to take him off their hands. Nice little transfer boost for us coming up.

Are some people still having trouble getting some threads not coming through but getting 404 and this page, whatever you are asking for, not being shown?

Or am I not being patient enough, I am getting some threads but not all.

I think there's been issues with the server, Dave.

I thought I'd been given a Red Card. But I don't think so.

Danny (40),

Yes, there was a notice on ToffeeWeb yesterday, in late afternoon, that there had been problems with the server but they had now been resolved and everything should be okay, but I'm still not getting some threads, maybe it's me not being patient enough.

Thanks for your reply anyway, hope you get to Southampton tomorrow and have a big smile on your face at 5:00 pm!!

Seems it might be a problem with the individual browsing histories. Lyndon's advice was to clear your browser history as it relates to ToffeeWeb pages, although I didn't need to and have not seen any problem since I brought it up with Lyndon yesterday.

So Dave, if you're still having issues getting to specific articles or pages, let us know which ones they are and we can take a look.

I just had a stadium update email and if you want to get positive (not many on here will, for fuck's sake) then follow the links and have a look at the latest video.

The place is HUUUUUGE.

Never have I wanted two years to pass so quickly, we'll maybe Klong Prem but, go watch and explore.

If it doesn't get your juices flowing, you're already dead!

Brian,

I went through Sandhills this morning on way to tomorrow's game and just drooled to see parts of the stadium structure now growing above the skyline. Did somebody say it wouldn't get built?!

Somebody said BBC are doing an update on it. Awaiting details. That's my BBC.

Don't talk to me about the BBC, Brent.

Or should I say more specifically BBC Breakfast.

Having to pay an enforced licence for the right to watch television, even if I don't choose to watch it. Then be spoken to by condescending presenters pretending to be stupid and telling me that I'm stupid and the world is a terrible place.

This is why the sensible people in the family shout at me, tell me to switch it off and I go out with the dogs.

Calma

Hey maybe the Beeb can make it up to you by announcing that Neymar is supporting Bolsonaro. Now there's some news for you. Bolls!

Funny, Jamie,

I used to love watching Mexico playing. I didn't watch them often, but going back in time to previous World cups, I used to love what I'd describe as “their honest endeavour” so I've either got this wrong, or this is something that has really crept into their play, because they are now only a shadow of their former selves?

What where Japan like? They took part in the best game of the last World Cup, imo, when they footballed a very good Belgium side to death before running out of steam and eventually died a death themselves.

The World Cup is nearly here, and hopefully it's going to end up like that great night out you didn't plan, because there seems to be little interest in the tournament on these shores at the minute.

Everton rejected the chance to sign Haaland when he was just 15.

Brain King (Everton talent spotter) was really excited about this kid. He had watched Haaland a few times, he gets back to Everton and finally gets Everton to agree a 4-day trial with the Academy, so the coaches can have a look, and see what they think.

Although raw, he showed all the attributes you do not often see in someone so young. After 4 days, the Academy decided he was not good enough. Brian King disagreed strongly and advised Everton to rethink.

King had seen plenty of games and knew all about Haaland's talent, yet after only 4 days, the coaches did not agree with King and allowed Haaland to leave without offering an apprenticeship or short-term deal.

King knew then that Everton had allowed a huge talent to slip through their fingers, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The one that got away, and hopefully lessons learned for the future.

Tony,

I agree about little interest in the World Cup, maybe because, for the first time in its history, it will put on hold all domestic football in Europe. I was listening to a journalist last week talking about the World Cup in Qatar and he was saying for anybody going to Qatar it will be a very different experience than most before.

He said the average price for a pint of lager is 㾸.50 – that's if you can find anywhere selling alcohol. He also said because the broadcasting rights have been given exclusively to one company, it won't be shown in hotels and other outlets. He said the cost of hotel rooms is astronomical and there aren't that many hotels in Qatar compared to most countries.

But surely the biggest tragedy is why haven't Fifa compensated the families of the migrant workers who died building the new stadiums? Seems despite getting rid of Blatter, the corruption is still rife within this organisation. Again, money supersedes any moral obligations. It seems sporting governing bodies will go to any country, irrespective of its human rights records, provided the money is there.

Brian,

I seem to recall this story doing the rounds a while back...

Ah, here it is, in the Echo, 11 February 2021 – well before Haaland moved to Man City and set about his attempt to smash Dixie's 60-goal record:

The 𧴜m Erling Braut Haaland mistake that Everton made

As you say... hindsight. But learning lessons? What lessons? That a 15-year-old kid can become the best striker in the world? That Brian King was a better judge than the coaches at Everton's Academy?

I don't think there are any lessons to learn. You win some and you lose some. Picking out the best players at 15 is a massive lottery. T'was ever thus.

Brian,

Thanks for that info. I thought I'd read, heard somewhere that Koeman didn't rate him.

Well, Michael, I think those bloody coaches need the push.

Brian, you absolutely right. Sport, particularly Football, has sold its soul for money.

Brian W.

I am sure that if we had signed Haaland he wouldn't be the player he is now. We would have ruined him like virtually every other striker we've had.

He would be up top on his own and running the channels into the corner flag. Then people would be calling him "Championship at best" and MK would have an issue with him, sigh.

He would have been the next big thing. A la Rooney. Half a season and he'd have been off to Old Trafford for a handful of magic beans, with the teary one waving him off down the East Lancs Road.

Danny.

Best, Law, Ball, Gascoigne , Rooney. I could go on.

Dalglish not in the Top 10.

As said already, hindsight is a great thing and it's judgement at the time when looking at the potential of a teenager and making a call.

One thing though, Dortmund have an eye for a striker. Haaland and Lewandowski before him. But both had been playing competitive football before they took them on.

I'm too young to have seen Best in his prime, Les, and I never saw Law that I can remember. Ball only in his twilight at Southampton and Gascoigne was very talented, I agree. He wasted it and made the wrong transfer decisions though? Could have been very different under Sir Alex at United.

I can only go off what I've seen.

Best English player for consistency for me is Paul Scholes.

Danny,

Best British player Dalgleish! Each to their own I suppose. What was it about his game that made him stand out to you? I recall him backing in and turning a lot. Maybe I have missed something about his game with my blue tinted specs on. I think Gerrard has been their best ever player.

Gascoigne, Bale, Beckham, Hoddle and Rooney for me. If I had to pick one it would be Rooney.

Best player I have seen in the flesh is George Best and that was their relegation season in '73. Best in a blue shirt for me is Alan Ball. He had everything.

We had the chance to make an offer to Haaland when he was 15. That doesn't mean he would have accepted the offer.

Most of the Premier League were looking at him when he was that age – and YouTube videos etc of him scoring goals in Norway were already kicking around.

It's telling that Haaland stayed in Norway for a little longer before joining Salzburg.

In fact his whole career has been carefully mapped out to ensure he developed in exactly the right environment – often at the expense of the highest wages on offer.

So, in reality, I don't think there ever was ever a credible chance he (and his father) would have chosen to play in our academy at that stage of his development.

Brian.

How about best in a green shirt (as it used to be). Big Nev. Finest keeper in the world …… bar none.

Les and Brian,

If we have to keep delving in the past, I'll raise you Pat Jennings and Peter Schmeichel. Nev best Everton keeper though, but Nigel Martyn was impressive.

Brian,

Absolutely, Best and the massively underrated Ball. I'd also include Harvey the white Pele when he was at his best.

Best goalies, Pickford and Big Nev.

It's all about opinions and some great players mentioned.

Dennis Law, 16 years of age playing for Huddersfield. What did he look, thin as a rake, wearing glasses to straighten his eyesight, then he got on the field and showed skill courage and tenacity.

Man City and Everton went in for him with Dennis choosing Man City before he went to Italy then back to Manchester, but United this time.

Georgie Best was the stand out player there and in Britain, just that his love of the good life took over and he only played seven years at the top, what a waste.

That's why I pick Tom Finney as my favourite British player, 20-odd years with his hometown club, Preston, a great two-footed footballer with supreme skill playing on both wings and a stint as a centre-forward.

But not as good as Alfredo Di Stephano but Alfredo wasn't British, unfortunately.

Dave, indeed. My late father would have said Tom Finney, Dennis Law and Colin Bell.

Joe,

Yes, three good players there Joe with Colin Bell reminding me of one of today's greats, Kevin De Bruyne, with his outstanding energy, skill and knitting the team together, not forgetting his goals.

I honestly don't think it was the footballing ability of Haaland that was the problem, although I might be wrong.

I heard that even though his club, wanted so much money, and his agent wanted a lot more, for both himself and the player, he was also prepared to structure a deal, that saw a way around the front end of the cost, making the deal more favourable to Everton than was being put about to other interested clubs.

That great talent spotter, Walsh, incredibly let one spurn through his net!

Law and Greaves were great attacking players, but Roy Vernon was up there with them for 3 years or so. Injuries and smoking took their toll eventually.

Remember the massive who-har when our Academy couldn't hold on to a certain Sean Doherty and he went to Fulham, many years ago now. What a player!

I just looked him up. That was 2001:

"Spending his youth at the Everton academy, when he was signed by Fulham in 2001 (aged 16) he was considered one of the best young players in England.

"After a loan spell with Blackpool in 2003, he moved to the Netherlands to play for ADO Den Haag in 2005 – having never made a first team appearance for Fulham.

"In 2006, he ended up at Accrington Stanley via Port Vale. He spent some time on loan at Southport, before he left for Belgian club Royal Antwerp in 2007. The next year he signed with Irish side Sligo Rovers.

"In 2010 he joined Marine via Witton Albion, before signing with Colwyn Bay the following year. In 2012, he played for AFC Liverpool and Droyslden, before returning to Marine in February 2013."

Talk about hindsight and learning lessons...

FIFA, with and now without Blatter, have a genuine dislike for the British or at least they come up with every and any obscure country to host it as long as we don't get it. The yanks had it in the '90s and now they getting it again after this. There really is no excuse as we already have the stadiums.

Chris. My middle name Roy after the great man. A genius also off the pitch that could keep a ciggy lit in the shower.

Michael,

The kid made the decision to join Tigana at Fulham whilst we had Walter Smith and Archie Knox knocking shite out of anything that looked sideways at them. Tigana gets sacked and a promising career diminishes. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

His dad was a top scout for us under Moyes and moved to Chelsea, I think.

Let's see where Thierry Small is in a few years.

Brian,

I remember when I was a kid in the '60s. Burnley away and Roy Vernon entering the pitch for the second half still smoking a ciggie.

Derek,

I think Roy used to have someone standing on the touch line at half time with a lit ciggy to hand to him as he came off the pitch.

MichaeL.

I met Sean Doherty's dad, Mick, in Spain when on holiday with my family. He clocked the Everton crest on my shorts.

Long story short, he would get us comps for the home games and he had to resign because of the stick he got from fans over his son leaving. Bumped into him at the Man Utd semi a while ago.

Wasn't there an urban myth kicking around that we once looked at Ruud Gullit before thinking no? I don't know how true that was. Most good players with potential will be looked at and scouted by most clubs.

There are probably a lot of those stories and facts floating around from those who know better. Players that clubs had the chance to grab as youngsters. Or released players that go onto achieve great things.

Does the player fit the scouts and coaches opinions at the time? All about opinions and judgement. As already mentioned, I'm sure it wasn't just Everton who were looking at him (Haaland) at the time and it seems his career and development has actually been carefully managed by those around him. Credit to them.

All down to opinion and judgement at the time by those in the decision-making positions.

Then there was the story about signing Peter Braybrook from Chelsea. It was said that Harry Catterick met him at Lime Street and drove him to Goodison via Scottie Road which left Braybrook less than impressed and he turned us down.

A lot said at the time that he should have been taken off the train at Allerton (Holly Park, now the bus & train station) and driven down Queens Drive.

Alan,

I can still remember a letter to the Echo about that, but I thought it was Mossley Hill.

At least he didn't jump off at Edge Hill!

If he'd have jumped off at Edge Hill, Chris, he'd have been inspired to write the sequel to Homeward Bound.

If he'd have mistakingly gotten off at Runcorn, he would have very quickly been homeward bound without further need for discussion or meetings.

I have to say, Lime Street always makes me feel like I've come home and a much improved place and entrance to the city than I remember in the 80s.

Danny,

I have a wonderful memory of George Best scoring for Norther Ireland at Wembley in 1970 after he turned Nobby Stiles inside out. What a player.

On a point of order, I am no snowflake and realize people sometimes get passionate and use foul language on here but I think Danny mentioning D**glish in a positive way is really deplorable.

Seconded. No Red Shite worship.

I read that this morning, Kieran, and just about fell off my chair.

Totally gratuitous mention, completely unwarranted, and really utterly shameful... or is it shameless.

Danny will have clean all the toilets for a week!

I've taken my medicine from Brian already.

I don't mind calling out a good footballer when I see one, even when if they caused heartbreak as a youngster.

Lavatory duties for a week it is then. Or block jobs as we used to call it in the Army.

Off out to watch the match. No doubt surrounded by numerous lifelong devoted Kopites who saw a video about Istanbul once.

I'll try and refrain, but I'll probably end up stepping in to educate them about their own alleged club.

Trouble is, I don't like the opposition either. I'll just watch the football.

Danny. Educate them about a proper centre half in Coady compared to that past it clog feet they have.

Danny, on a night like tonight, there's only one team you want to win, and it's not the Shite!

Napoli look a Hell of a team this year. 6-1 away to Ajax is nothing to be sniffed at. Top of Seria A too.

Not long ago, Serie A like France and Germany was a one team league with Juve winning it 7 years in a row. Now we've had Juve, Inter, Milan so three different winners in 3 years and it looks like Napoli may make it four.

Is there hope for the Premier League to become competitive again? In the short-term, nice to see Napoli making the RS look a second rate team as it's likely they will win the Champions League group and hopefully consign the RS to a defeat in the last 16 v Man City or "Our Carlo".

Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 1927, Dixie Dean scored 60 goals the same season.

Aaron Judge and Erling Haaland to both hit 60+ this season? Judge has done it.

Kieran @50, agreed about Napoli and Raspadori looks fabulous.

As to competitiveness in the Premier League, no I don't believe so. It will be Manchester City and Newcastle for the long term. No-one else will match their funding.

Stop the press!!! Trent Alexander Arnold scored a goal last night and he's returned to being Saint Trent once more.

Colin, Telegraph on line headlines - Are you watching Gareth? AA answers critics with brilliant free-kick.

I am not sure many are criticising that part of his game but the ability to act like one of Lewis' staff when defending (chips waiting for vinegar was the other household saying). They just don't get it. And this wasn't even outed Red Bascombe.

If we are talking top outfielders, then my 3 choices would be: Tom Finney, Stanley Matthews, and Len Shackleton (The Clown Prince of Football)

I think Best would be my pick, considering the damage so many wanted to inflict on him, best crosser of the ball would be Dave Thomas, socks rolled down, hit the byline, all Latchford had to do was stand on the penalty spot..
Alex Young, because he was a ghost that couldn't be caught, because he was simply extraordinary. Big Nev, Nigel Martyn..Thomas Gravvessen because he was a viking nut job.. but what a player.. Howard Kendall for his time volleys.. the list goes on..

Henry Winter the self confessed Liverpool fan was on twitter asking how can Southgate not take TAA after this. But the reason Southgate doesn't select him is because his first job as a full back is to defend and that's something he has lacked. He never seems to be aware of anybody coming him from his blindside, and isn't the greatest when facing a winger with any pace. I don't know why the Times send Henry Winter to cover Liverpool games because there is no objectivity in his reporting, he is writing as a fan would.

But we should be used to this type of bias reporting as the media and TV is awash with either ex Liverpool players or journalists who support the club. I was watching the golf on Sky a few months back and Laura Davies was going on about her love for Liverpool FC, and her fellow commentators were saying what a big Liverpool fan she was, I guess another celebrity who has been a couple of times in their whole life to Anfield but classed as big fans.

Brian. No different to why sky bt talk sport etc are crawling with ex kopites and they have no shame or balance asking them to cover their matches.

I was watching that….re Laura Davies, Brian. I now absolutely can't stand her, can't listen to her and turn the tv over if she's on. Call me irrational but I can't stand them, any of them. Plassy media Kopites from Surrey. Remember when they said all the Utd fans were from London etc? Another lie from Satans myth makers. As for Winter, he's typical of what the media has become. Completely one sided biased opinion making.

UTFT

Hopefully the gunners should bring them back down to earth at the weekend.

Won't happen Brian @60. Arsenal will forget to turn up. But I can guarantee you afterwards Sky will be cock-a-hoop with their fav teams title challenge, and will be fawning over the big cry-arsing German gobshite who as ever will be absolutely magnanimous in victory.

As for Alexander Arsehole, he's bang average, like most of their team. Luckily Southgate has eyes and that's why he doesn't get picked.

UTFT

Alexander Arnold is an absolutely outstanding footballer imo, but he's not an outstanding fullback. I hope he gets to go to the World Cup though, rather than resting and recuperating at home

Nick

I cant stand listening to her either despite having had a stellar career in womans golf, I find her commentary not very interesting at all. I was only thinking the other day what great commentators there were on all sports now I don't think we have commentators with the same expertise. There are some exceptions probably Ewen Murray on golf and I also think our ex Scouser Nick Doherty is also turning into a good broadcaster. But when you think back to the great commentators, Wolstenholme still the best football commentator, Richie Benaud, Harry Carpenter, Peter Allis, Henry Longhurst, Dan Maskell and Murray Walker and the late great Peter O,Sullivan on horse racing.

I couldn't understand why people were making a big deal of Trent's performance last night..."he's silenced his critics", etc.

Nobody ever doubted his ability to attack, we all know how good he is going forward. But, last night he was up against a team that barely threatened so he was bound to look good. It was obvious.

Let's see how he does against Martinelli.

Brian (63), those commentators you mentioned were outstanding,as good and as interesting as the sports you were watching with them and without talking non stop interrupting the action or creating contraversaty, professional at there job, not well paid amateurs like todays lot.

Rangers prove that Scottish Prem. is miles behind the English Prem.

Might be a bit off topic and probably got no chance but, ‪ If anyone knows of a couple of spares for United this weekend gives a message on 07831518878 I'm Back home from Australia on holiday and would love to go with me cousin
Tia 👍🏻

Tom, Yeah daft arses only interested in singing god save the queen. As if the royals give a flying about up there. Or here for that matter. Championship level. On the plus side ajax may go out so increase our chances of getting kudos. Nick page. Gunners the real deal and will have too much for them.

I thought about commenting on that last night Tom. It was clear to see.

A shame when you consider where the Scottish game was several decades ago in terms of the players they produced in relative terms considering the population.

But then again, there is a gulf between the best in England now and the rest who fight for credibility. Spain has always had the Barcelona - Real dynasty, Bayern usually dominate in Deutschland, occasionally challenged by the likes of Dortmund. Juve and the Milan clubs dominate Italia with periodic interference from the Roma clubs and Napoli.

I suppose what it potentially shows is the pitfall of a genuinely uncompetitive league. But you could label that at most European leagues.

I suppose the key difference is that even if you dominate, if you are playing a certain standard week in, week out, it makes stepping up what is effectively 2 or 3 levels that more difficult

Let's go and poke the hornets nest and stir things up a bit.

Brain @63…. Agree on ex-Faldo prodigy Nick Dougherty, he's excellent. Although he's raised his vowels the sell out, lol. Larst, Grarse etc

Brian(#63); I suppose it all started to turn from neutral/unbiased after Colehouse and his, "favourite left leg".

Michael didn't Sean Doherty come back to Everton, in the not too distant past, working in some capacity, coaching or on the fitness side of the game.?

Two more for Haaland in about 20 minutes. This guy ain't human. Gotta be at least part alien.

Combine City's dominance and frivolity in the opposing half with a top goal scorer and you end up with an alien Mike. Lol

Also wanted to add how bad Joe Hart was for Celtic. It's hard to believe he was ever a top goalkeeper.

He was until that Brylcream started getting in his eyes, Jay. Imagine seeing your keeper on telly advertising beauty products? Un-fuckin-believable.

Conor Coady £4.5m to make perm, Tarkowski on a free, Gana for £2 5m.

Fair play that's a great outlay, full of leadership and character.

It certainly looks like City are on another planet to everyone else too.

Tony,

I had forgotten about that advert, I bet he wishes he could too. Hard to imagine anyone using that stuff!

Potter getting a nice win over AC Milan. Southgate should be happy, three Englishmen on the scoresheet too.

Kieran, do you mean three Englishmen on the score sheet for Chelsea?

Rob, Jude Bellingham with a beauty for Dortmund today.

£4.5M for Coady is an absolute steal.

Ah Mike, three Englishmen on the night then, not three for Chelsea!!

Dave @72,

Nothing about him coming back to Everton on his Wiki page.

I thought we mentioned him a few years back as well... but a Google search of the site only has stuff from way back.

Nice Pub Quiz Question: Sean Doherty and Wayne Rooney were each subbed on in both of Everton's FA Youth Cup games against this single opponent in which year?

Michael (86), there was an article in the LiverpoolEcho in August 2022 which was updated from 2015 which states that Sean was back at Everton and Finch Farm analysing the youth team players, don't know if he is still there.

As for the Pub Quiz question, the year has to be 2000 or 2001, because Sean left Everton for Fulham in 2001 as a 16-year-old, but haven't got a clue who the opposing team was.

I'd say, at a guess that the year was 2000, and they were both 15 years old, I'd be surprised if the game was Goodison Park because I'd have been there... in fact, I can't remember Doherty playing in Everton's youth team.

Z-Cars theme has just been played on Radio 2, courtesy of Brian Blessed on Tracks Of My Years.

Wasn't really listening as I am working and it is background noise. I have just gone full-on Pavlov dog when it started playing and stood up and started clapping.

Fucking glad I am working from home! I need help!

My poor sufferening young brother would likely know that stat about Rooney and Doherty more than me.

He is 17 years my junior but can quote me on Everton facts frequently.

He's educated. I'm the fool that keeps giving!!

Opps, I'd forgotten about the late-night teaser...

Ding, ding, ding – you are correct, Dave: the year was 2000. Good deduction!

The opponent was Nottingham Forest in the 3rd Round of the FA Youth Cup, Tuesday 28 November 2000, with Everton drawn at home so it was played at Goodison Park. Nick Chadwick scored with one of those two posts jobbies after 6 minutes, so that might jog your memory!

Forest leveled 2 minutes later, from the spot, after Alan Moogan handled. Doherty and Rooney both on as subs in the second half but could not break the deadlock.

Replay at the City Ground in December, with Doherty and Rooney both on as subs in the second half, Chadwick scoring again, but we went down 3-2.

Michael,

Nick Chadwick was a funny one. I'd put him in the same category as Cadamarteri and Veliios.

All three didn't seem highly rated by management or under 23/21 aficionados. But all three somehow got unexpected game time, scored a few goals for us, then disappeared into oblivion.

Is it just fluke? Beginners luck? Did they get too big for their boots? It's just a bizarre footnote in their otherwise mediocre careers:

“Oh yeah, I also had a spell in the Everton first team and scored a few goals.”

I suppose we had the same back in the ‘80s with no-name lower-league dwellers like Langley and Rimmer who dropped in for a bit, won the league, then went back to whence they came.

Michael (92),

If I went to that game, I don't remember it. Going by the date, Rooney was 15 and still at school; same might have applied to Doherty.

The first time I saw Wayne was against Spurs in the FA Youth Cup. I and everyone who saw him that night was mesmerised by the this young pugnacious kid from the very first minute when he robbed the Spurs full back of the ball and laid a pass on the plate for Michael Sykes to head home.

“Remember the name”

I knew it from that Spurs game and told everyone who would listen about this kid, there wasn't a shred of a doubt that this kid was destined to be a fabulous player.

Pity he only stayed for two seasons and a bigger pity he ever came back when he was well past his best and only showed in glimpses the skill he once had.

How come City only get a £260k fine when their pitch invasion actually involved Olson getting physically attacked?

I'll tell you why John, they are taking the #@&# out of Everton. They hate us and wanted us to get relegated. I'm dreaming of the day we can smash that cosy cartel at the top. Probably need someone with deeper pockets than Kaminsky or an investment SPAC to help us get there though.

See Liverpool will have the honour of hosting next years Eurovision Song Contest, not that I watch it like, but let's hope one or two tourists from abroad can get down to BMD for a gander at our new stadium!!

This isn't the red light district Rob, just a bit blue?

Uh, England 1-0 USA about 10 minutes ago. Helping you out mates! Hemp, timely after yesterday's announcement here in the states.

Anybody not watching USA/England women, tune it in. Great game. Now 2-2 @ 37 minutes.