Season › 2022-23 › General Forum Premier League — Matchweek 23 By Michael Kenrick 07/02/2023 Share: There is an extra game on Wednesday (Man Utd vs Leeds Utd; 20:00) but it is not being shown live on TV in the UK, whereas the return fixture on Sunday is one of the five games out of ten being played in the Premier League across the weekend that are scheduled for live coverage as follows: Saturday 11 February 202312:30 West Ham Utd v Chelsea – on BT Sport 117:30 Bournemouth v Newcastle Utd – on Sky Sports Sunday 12 February 202314:00 Leeds Utd v Man Utd – on Sky Sports 16:30 Man City v Aston Villa – on Sky Sports Monday 13 February 202320:00 Liverpool v Everton – on Sky Sports Reader Comments (170) Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer () Neil Lawson 1 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:38:48 What a great game last night at Bramhall Lane. A real throwback to past times where both sides went forward and wanted to win. Hefty tackles. No primadonna diving and rolling around as if poleaxed. A ref who was prepared to let the players get on with it (yes, he made a few mistakes but they even out) and no painful VAR to interrupt and interfere. Even a pitch showing signs of winter wear!! Great game. Great entertainment. Best watch for a long time. Rob Halligan 2 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:09:11 Leeds 1-0 up after one minute. Mike Gaynes 3 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:13:08 That new-manager bounce again. Dale Self 4 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:13:16 Damn near a second just then Ushited are making Ten Hag a pouty man. Fran Mitchell 5 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:14:08 Leeds looking dangerous here. That Gnotto is a real talent.This relegation battle is going to be tough Rob Halligan 6 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:18:55 Should have even an equaliser by Garnacho. Dale Self 7 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:23:09 Struijk looks like he could come off. I'll take it. Fran Mitchell 8 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:40:12 On Leeds, when you see their shortlist for prospective new managers, and then compare to that of Everton's, it's bonkers how limited ours was.Currently happy with the Dyche appointment, but I would love to see the club be a bit more less predictable. Joe McMahon 9 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:53:04 Fran, so would I but its never gonna happen. The club is stuck in the past and hasn't evolved. For example Sharp on the board, Kenwright stinking the place out for decades and Z Cars amongst many things. Bill Gall 10 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:13:20 Leeds 2 up Pete Hughes 11 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:16:22 Ffs, Man un! Nick Page 12 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:23:42 How the fuck are Leeds winning two-nil at OT. For fucks sake Paul Birmingham 13 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:25:01 Hopefully Utd will get their act together, pdq.Raises the stakes for next week at our old ground, but there's a long haul, to go till the end of this season, and no doubt more twists and bizarre events.If City got demoted to a lower tier, say Division 2, I'm sure those clubs could vote not to accept them? But I may well be miles off course, and wrong, but I'm sure the clubs, have a right of veto, in such circumstances. Allen Rodgers 14 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:25:18 Was relying on Leeds to lose both games v. Man U. We are cursed. Mike Gaynes 15 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:25:25 Leeds won't be in the relegation fight for long. This Yank midfield isn't very creative, but it's REALLY tight. Soren Moyer 16 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:26:12 Fucking rat face gave the ball away for Leeds's first.1-2! Kieran Kinsella 17 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:35:34 We may have to ask Crystal Palace to be relegated as everyone else seems to be on the up. Neil Copeland 18 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:36:04 Paul #13, I thought so too and I think that was the case when Rangers went bust. Similar to the Rangers situation there is a potential opportunity for smaller league 2 clubs to at least generate income by playing City twice so maybe they would agree to them joining. Not sure how that would work with the relegation and promotion to and from League 2.Anyway, we need to concentrate on ourselves and bring home the points from Mordor on Monday.UTFT! Rob Halligan 19 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:36:23 No need Kieran. 2-2. Leeds have crumbled. Kieran Kinsella 20 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:37:18 Rob,Excellent, that should destroy their confidence and seal their fate. Dale Self 21 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:37:30 Yes. Kill the bounce, still time for a complete collapse Neil Copeland 22 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:37:41 Rob 19, beat me to it ha! Mike Gaynes 23 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:37:42 Normal service restored. 2-2. Soren Moyer 24 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:37:58 Come on you fucking manure! 2 more and we're in business. Nick Page 25 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:37:58 Sancho!!! Kieran Kinsella 26 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:38:31 Sancho like a new signing Brian Williams 27 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:40:37 Words I never thought I'd utter: "Come on, Man Utd." Michael Kenrick 28 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:41:47 Junior should really be sent off for that, so cynical! Paul Birmingham 29 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:00:18 Neil, yes agreed we need Man Utd, to win this one now, and turn over Leeds Utd at the weekend.Regards Man City, it's going to be interesting to see what their sentence will be. Paul Hewitt 30 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:02:07 Could have been worse. Daniel A Johnson 31 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:03:11 Man City will just get a fine and a few transfer window bans. I'm just gutted chequebook Pep would have bailed before the punishments are dished out. Paul Birmingham 32 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:03:54 Paul, in context yes, 2 points saved.Hopefully Man Utd beat them at the weekend and Everton turn them over in a few weeks, but there's plenty of games to play. Tony Everan 33 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:04:59 That draw feels like a win after being two down. I think Palace and Forest are still vulnerable, every team from 12th down is in the thick of it. Rob Halligan 34 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:05:05 Well, could have been a lot worse. It was only Man Utd farting about that gave Leeds the opportunities to score. Leeds will definitely see that as 2 points dropped more than 1 point gained. Barry Hesketh 35 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:06:23 At least Man Utd got a point as it looked as if Leeds were going to steamroller them in the opening 10 minutes or so of the second half. It just shows that, if you can force the game at these bastions of power, you can still get something out of the game. Junior although lucky to escape red with his first cynical foul, why didn't he get a second yellow for the foul a bit later on? It's also why Everton can't take anything for granted when Leeds and Villa visit Goodison in the next few weeks. Danny Baily 36 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:28:30 Tony 33, I think it's the current bottom 3 and Leeds in the relegation mix. Tom Bowers 37 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:49:24 Well done Manure !! I never thought I would be saying that.Now we have to make sure we beat Leeds next week. Paul Kossoff 38 Posted 08/02/2023 at 23:40:43 I'm more worried about Leeds who were beating Man Utd 2-0; eventually Utd managed a draw at Old Trafford. Tony Abrahams 39 Posted 09/02/2023 at 08:32:45 Definitely Tony. Interesting looking at the posts above, Mike G's resonated when he talked about the Leeds midfield, because the difference in our midfielders between Lampard and Dyche, was incredible, although I'm aware it's only been one game.You don't get out of relegation dog-fights by saying we are cursed Allen, you get out by being disciplined and working very hard. After Saturday I give Everton a much better chance of beating the drop, and didn't even look at the Leeds score until now, because football should always be about getting yourself in good order first, and with a lot of games still to play then this is the most important thing imo. Tony Everan 40 Posted 09/02/2023 at 08:48:25 Tony I think so too , there's been plenty of discussion about our midfield not being balanced or set up right. The biggest reason for optimism we have is that Sean Dyche seemed to find they key to this issue that was beyond Frank Lampard. Tony Abrahams 41 Posted 09/02/2023 at 09:38:21 I've already said it twice on these pages Tony, but watching us on Saturday, showed me how badly out of his depth Frank Lampard, really was.One thing everyone knows about football, is that you can't give your opponent to much space. If you don't close the space, then average players become good, good players become brilliant, and very good players become absolute world beaters, and this is why Everton have been badly struggling imo.I genuinely think that Frank Lampard, would have loved to have played against the Everton midfield, that he constantly set up, yet would have hated playing against us on Saturday? Andy Crooks 42 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:09:29 Danny @36, for weeks you had us relegated,100% no doubt, certain, unavoidable, doomed. Now you talk of a relegation mix.Have you had a welcome moment of epiphany? Danny O’Neill 43 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:27:00 Anyone from Forest down in my view Andy.We can still climb this table. Tony Everan 44 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:36:56 Agree Danny, two bad results for any of those teams or alternatively two good results can change the way everything looks. Every point is going to count now because it's going to be very tight this season, I can envisage a last-day nail-biter involving a few teams. Andy Crooks 45 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:37:13 Spot on, Danny. I was and remain confident we will be safe. It wasn't just the drive and commitment on Saturday, it was obvious that Dyche will play to our strengths. That hasn"t happened for a long time. Danny O’Neill 46 Posted 10/02/2023 at 09:30:53 Nowhere to put this as the match day thread isn't up yet.A quote from Martin Luther King that I find very apt:“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.†We have a challenge on our hands and there is controversy in the background. But when we go to that place on Monday, we go with blue fire in our stomachs and step onto the battlefield with a pure desire to compete and win.On the pitch and from the stands.I kept saying I need to be calm. No chance. Bring them on. Entitled condescending bastards.Right, I'll go for my medicine!! Dale Self 47 Posted 11/02/2023 at 12:55:28 Joao about that Chelsea up 0-1. Make that 0-2 the slide. Sorry bout that. Tapping iphone instead of watching. Damn now the hammers equalize. 1-1 Pete Hughes 48 Posted 11/02/2023 at 12:57:17 Still 1-0 Chelsea had 2 disallowed now as well Bill Gall 49 Posted 11/02/2023 at 12:58:54 West Ham playing a dangerous game, already 1 goal behind and playing a high line that Chelsea has nearly broken through twice. Bill Gall 50 Posted 11/02/2023 at 13:00:32 After saying that, West Ham just equalized. John Keating 51 Posted 11/02/2023 at 13:02:44 Yet another goal after a team trying to play this passing shit around the penalty box. Dale Self 52 Posted 11/02/2023 at 13:25:37 Weird Premier League match… almost like an international. Tony Everan 53 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:18:19 West Ham goal, ffs Chelsea Dale Self 54 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:18:32 Bubbles Boehly must be pissed off about splashing 700+ million. Offside though still 1-1 Michael Kenrick 55 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:19:06 Clearly offside... but takes them an age and a half...Phew! Tony Everan 56 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:19:20 Thank the lord ! Or VAR, or are they the same ? Dale Self 57 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:23:11 Penalty if teviewed Michael Kenrick 58 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:24:22 Oh dear... oh no! Peter Walton says it shoulda been a penalty! Dale Self 59 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:29:45 Not great but the schedule has the lower teams playing each other or facing Euro competing clubs. Potter looked out of ideas. Jim Bennings 60 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:31:23 West Ham pick up a point, at least they are only two ahead of us.Lots of big games today that concern us however. Rob Halligan 61 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:31:59 Chelsea just seemed to be playing at a snail's pace there. No real effort whatsoever. Barry Hesketh 62 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:36:08 Agreed Rob, Chelsea looked like a group of players that know that the manager's days are numbered, and they were all very laid back with little or no urgency to try and win the match. I suppose we should be thankful that the Hammers didn't take all 3 points. Rob Halligan 63 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:40:53 Barry, the money Chelsea have spent in the last two transfer windows, they should be doing much better than that today. The owners aren't going to be pleased, especially if they don't make the Champions League next season, which is looking very doubtful right now. Potter is definitely on borrowed time now. Rob Halligan 64 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:43:10 Don't know why that penalty wasn't given? Was blatant handball. Michael Kenrick 65 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:46:55 If he was putting his hand down to break his fall, then why was his plam out, facing the ball?Shocking decision by the VAR really... but that's where we are. They have to be able to see it as clear as we do; they give some, others they don't. Clear and obvious VAR bullshit. Paul Birmingham 66 Posted 11/02/2023 at 14:58:10 Piss poor ref and VAR regards the penalty which should have been given for Chelsea today towards the end. How's it not been given? But small margins count in the course of a season for every club.I hope the officials for the derby are dope tested before Monday's game.Misuse of the VAR and weak officials is spoiling, killing the game. Paul Birmingham 67 Posted 11/02/2023 at 15:31:25 Let's hope Wolves can grind out a draw v Southampton. Dennis Stevens 68 Posted 11/02/2023 at 15:43:43 OMG, Saints ahead – another 9 goals & they'll leapfrog us! Brian Hennessy 69 Posted 11/02/2023 at 15:58:33 Not sure what result is best for us in the Southampton game. A Saints win drags Wolves back into the mix. There is not much hope for us if we can't get enough points to finish ahead of a very poor Southampton side. Like Paul said, a draw is probably the best, but Wolves are down to 10 men. Anthony Murphy 70 Posted 11/02/2023 at 15:58:55 Unlike other seasons, there are no sides guaranteed to be relegated – normally the likes of Norwich, Watford or West Brom are in the Bottom 3 and on their way back to the Championship early doors. I think this season is more competitive and teams in and around the Bottom 3 are all in with a shout of survival. We could do with one side imploding. Jim Bennings 71 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:13:16 I still think our season and status will be defined by the home games against Leeds and Villa and the away game at Forest, the trio of games straight after the derby.Despite the huge win against Arsenal last Saturday there's no getting away that we are still in lots of trouble down there.I just worry our lack of goals will eventually be the sad downfall for us but who knows, we'll keep on fighting, we have to. Geoff Lambert 72 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:29:48 We need to be looking up not down. Southampton will be Bottom 3 as will Bournemouth.It's the likes of Wolves we will be fighting to stay out the Bottom 3. So I think this would be a good result for us. Dale Self 73 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:33:51 Ugly but it is in Saints 1-1 Wolves Tony Everan 74 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:43:04 Draw is ok, and the barcodes winning this evening also at least a draw. Maybe the peroxide blonde can do us a favour. Rob Hooton 75 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:44:06 Spurs going all Spursy Mike Gaynes 76 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:47:12 Wow, Wolves win it a man down. Gutsy. Dale Self 77 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:47:32 Yes saints 1-2 wolves but a foul in the buildup. We will see if that standsNot contesting it. Hard to believe they wouldnt whine about that push before possession was taken. Jim Bennings 78 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:47:41 TonyI still hope Bournemouth beat Newcastle mate.I can't stand the thought of those bellends getting Champions League and winning a trophy in the first season of their blood money, they were big enough tools without the wads of cash.Bournemouth will go down regardless of tonight, Southampton too in my opinion.It's out of us, Leeds, Wolves and West Ham that join em'. Paul Birmingham 79 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:47:50 Well, it's a funny old game, fair play to Wolves. Kevin Molloy 80 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:48:58 Have to say I do find Pat Nevin annoying. When he was a player in the '80s, he was just too cool for school, but since the money went in after his career ended he's Mister Football, raving about nil-nil draws and everyone's best mate. Tony Everan 81 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:49:10 Southampton have started the death throes. A shocker. Kevin Molloy 82 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:52:49 Boggling to think the turnip in the dugout at St Marys still had enough about him to best Lampard a few weeks ago at Goodison. How low did we go with Frank? Danny O’Neill 83 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:56:00 All we can do and focus on is taking care of ourselves, starting Monday. Dale Self 84 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:56:57 Only the Leicester result disappoints really. Now for the House of Sod to do the business. Tony Everan 85 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:57:24 Sulemana had a full game against the ten men, it will be interesting to see how that signing pans out. Dennis Stevens 86 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:57:53 Forest's goal difference is so diabolical, it'll be worth a point to anybody who catches them. Will Mabon 87 Posted 11/02/2023 at 16:59:20 Fergie time at Arsenal... Mike Price 88 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:00:23 Can't help feeling that keeping a dead man walking for the Wolves and Southampton home games may be fatal.With Dyche that's a great chance of 6 points for us and -3 for them which is massively significant. Anthony Murphy 89 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:00:33 Palace could get dragged in – on a bad run and nothing special. Wolves, West Ham and Leicester will all be okay, I reckon. Fran Mitchell 90 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:01:10 End for Jones at Southampton; how we lost at home to them?Wolves with 3 wins in 5, looking like they'll be safe. Mike Gaynes 91 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:01:17 Did Saints sack their manager yet? Will Mabon 92 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:07:37 Forest could yet suffer a reversal. There are more than enough candidates but it will be tight among them all, almost certainly another last-day thing. Barry Hesketh 93 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:09:21 We wanted teams above us to be dragged down nearer to us and the Bottom 3, but mostly today the sides above have edged a little further away from us. Obviously, we have to do most of the work ourselves because, if we are still relying on others to help out by this time next month, we may be cut adrift. It could be only three out of the current Bottom 4 that are truly involved in the relegation dog-fight, but there's still a pretty long way to go yet.I watched Arsenal's match and they looked a tired team, still good on the ball but lacked quality high up the pitch. Brentford caused them real problems sporadically and probably deserved the point. Tom Bowers 94 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:09:38 Always ands, ifs, buts and maybe's but still wide open at the lower end. Would be tremendous to beat the RS and then Leeds next especially if Manure can beat Leeds as well.This has been the worst spell in the league for as long as I can remember and the quicker we get over it the better.That result last week was terrific if not a big surprise but we need to build on that come Monday. Dale Self 95 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:12:18 I think I saw the Forest strker go off with a hamstring problem. It's that time of season. Not wishing injuries for anyone but you know. Tony Everan 96 Posted 11/02/2023 at 17:28:31 Dale, they've signed 29 players since the summer they must have a a few spare ones knocking around. Dale Self 97 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:05:05 Fair point, Tony, but it did look like the kid, Johnson(?), was finding his form. Newcastle will miss Guimaraes badly. Tony Everan 98 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:07:19 Goldilocks coming on Danny O’Neill 99 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:18:41 That was a great follow up. Didn't stop the run. Anthony Murphy 100 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:19:17 Kopite wannabes equalise just before half time Dale Self 101 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:23:04 Yes Bournehole down! Danny O’Neill 102 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:26:01 To think, many snubbed their noses at Longstaff.I think we'd have liked him. Dave Abrahams 103 Posted 11/02/2023 at 18:34:45 I've watched Newcastle three times lately and they don't look like anything special but they are in the running to play in the Champions League next season.It seems to me that the Premier League is full of ordinary teams this season and Arsenal were looking in a very good place to claim the title. Are they finding it too much to carry on with their run after two poor results lately? Dale Self 104 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:00:41 Gordinho misses from 3 yards out and he is lucky a defender touched it. Tony Everan 105 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:18:56 Dave, yep they've looked bang average. Outside the Top 3, there's not that much between them. Brighton have looked the best of the rest on occasions along with Tottenham but all inconsistent. It's going to be a good fight for that 4th spot. Oliver Molloy 106 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:26:25 How the fuck did Chelsea not get a penalty against West Ham is crazy. Nick Page 107 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:29:30 Got to win Monday. Simple. Barry Hesketh 108 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:33:24 Noticed "MSP" advertised around Bournemouth's stadium; have they anything to do with the Cherries, or do they advertise around the Premier League grounds? I possibly only took notice because they are linked to investment in Everton.That referee was letting a lot go in that Bournemouth game, he was more like a passive observer than a bloke in charge of the match. Trevor Peers 109 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:34:22 Gordon did next to nothing for Newcastle, no surprise at all really. Shame we didn't buy a striker with the missing money. Thanks Uncle Bill. Barry Hesketh 110 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:36:46 Get a 㾶 double on Leeds and Villa tomorrow – the way things have gone this weekend, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Tony Everan 111 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:39:27 Barry …confusing! I had to check it out. MSP Capital are the shirt sponsors of Bournemouth and are a local-based UK company involved with property finance. MSP Sports Capital, who are investing the 𧴡M in Everton, are an American sports investment consortium. Iain Johnston 112 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:40:26 With Southampton now 4 points from safety, our win against Arsenal is looking more and more priceless.We need to beat the RS simply to leapfrog West Ham. Under Skubala I have a feeling Leeds will get something again tomorrow. Bill Gall 113 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:41:38 After watching the Bournemouth - Newcastle game, the only thing to say is thank you, Newcastle, for giving that much money for Gordon, and come back for some more. Dave Abrahams 114 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:42:30 Tony (105), That's the 11th game they've drawn in the Premier League this season!! Barry Hesketh 115 Posted 11/02/2023 at 19:42:36 Tony @111Thanks for that, well researched. I just saw "MSP" Dennis Stevens 116 Posted 11/02/2023 at 20:12:45 Ta Tony, I'm no longer confused as to why we could be getting investment funds from Members of the Scottish Parliament! Colin Glassar 117 Posted 11/02/2023 at 20:13:11 No one will be doing us any favours in this run in. We just have to concentrate on our own games and hope and pray we aren't playing Wigan next season. Dennis Stevens 118 Posted 11/02/2023 at 20:54:18 Colin, I think Wigan are more likely to be relegated than promoted. Joe McMahon 119 Posted 11/02/2023 at 21:15:17 Colin and Dennis, Yes, we don't want another Everton 0 Wigan 3 at Goodison. That was one of many Moyes classics. Dennis Stevens 120 Posted 11/02/2023 at 21:22:18 Good times, Joe! Neil Copeland 121 Posted 11/02/2023 at 21:59:44 We just need to concentrate on our games, pick up enough points and nothing else matters. So, staring on Monday with 3 points we move closer to safety.As for the rest of them, fuck ‘em, who cares!UTFT! Tony Everan 122 Posted 11/02/2023 at 22:21:32 Not a good day for the VAR.The Chelsea one was bad, haven't seen the Arsenal one but it sounds dubious. But this Brighton one takes the biscuit.“The offside line was wrongly drawn from James Tomkins rather than his fellow Palace defender Marc Guehi, who was standing just behind him."If the line had been drawn from Guehi, Brighton's left-back would have been onside and the goal would have stood.â€Unbelievable. Tom Bowers 123 Posted 11/02/2023 at 02:54:40 Despite the VAR, the lack of positive action by the officials is still alarmingly remiss. So much is not being called – it's no wonder managers are crying foul so often.May as well do away with this technology if the VAR refers the matter back to the on-field referee to call it. What is the point of wasting time and money on a system which isn't working? Brian Harrison 124 Posted 12/02/2023 at 11:03:23 Seems that the same incompetents that ref and also operate VAR showed yet again yesterday that even with the hindsight that VAR gives them they still get it wrong. The Brighton goal was a complete disaster mind with that clown Mason in charge of the VAR it wasn't a surprise. First the ball is played up to Toney who has both arms round the back of the Arsenal defender, even if the on field ref didn't see it VAR should have picked it up as did the MOTD cameras, which should have resulted in an Arsenal free kick but it was awarded to Brentford. When the kick was taken on 2 occasions before the goal was scored Brentford had 2 men in offside positions. Soucheks hand ball against Chelsea was a no brain penalty but again a simple decision and the ref operating VAR didnt give it.The argument for many years was the refs understand the rules but don't understand the game, well seems now they don't even understand the rules.When I watch games from other countries they don't seem to have these same problems with VAR. even the World Cup wasn't blighted with the same problems that we have. Maybe that's why FIFA didn't use hardly any English refs in the World Cup.Now when at the game I never celebrate a goal till all the checks have taken place, what was supposed to help the game has for me completely ruined the expeirience. Allen Rodgers 125 Posted 12/02/2023 at 11:37:43 Incompetent former referees in VAR shock horror. D.Murphy on MOTD suggesting the VAR people don't know the game. Would former players do any better or would they be biased towards their old clubs ? Dave Abrahams 126 Posted 12/02/2023 at 13:30:37 There is nothing wrong with VAR, in my opinion, it's the same more biased than incompetent referees still being used on the field and in a studio that are the problem, something stinks about the whole way decisions are made every week in the premier league that defy the logic of fair refereeing, with the same two actions in one game getting two absolutely different outcomes, as I say something stinks in the way the games are controlled by the referees. Football seems a lot more fairer in other countries than it is in England and other sports, even in England, don't have the same problems that football has since it was used in this country.Referees who have to answer to no one is definitely a big, big problem in the premier league. Dale Self 127 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:08:09 Man Utd are playing like they are afraid to go toe to toe with Leeds Utd. Pathetic. Dave Abrahams 128 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:17:14 Dale (127),Spot on and unless they change a couple of players, I can see Leeds getting a breakaway goal, especially with Maguire in that soft defence of Man Utd's. John Keating 129 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:19:33 The VAR is the end of footy as we know it.The euphoria of the ball hitting the net has been negated by waiting half-an-hour to see if someone's balls hair was offside.Just imagine if you supported Arsenal and lost the league by a point?"Well, we're really sorry, we admit we made a mistake… but hey ho!"In the good old days, we would leave the ground, go for a few pints and argue the goals, offsides etc.Now we argue about the incompetents who are ruining our game. Kevin Molloy 130 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:22:37 John, yes they've almost completely ruined the experience of a goal being scored. I never bother to celebrate now, and after the 2 minute wait, all euphoria is gone. Dale Self 131 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:23:52 Here we go, Dave, Martinez and Garnacho. This could up the tempo. That look on Malacia's face was priceless: “You're taking me off – not Slabhead?†Bill Gall 132 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:32:08 What's next? More delays as a separate VAR checks to see if the first VAR was right. As has been noted, the VAR is slowly taking the excitement out of the game while the checks are made for offside, fouls committed before the goal, and then it is denied as the scorer wears a size 10 boot and the defender only a size 9. Brent Stephens 133 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:39:54 Rashford! Get in! Mike Gaynes 134 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:40:56 And there's Rashford right on cue.Dave #126, totally agree, but at least Webb has brought some accountability to the process instead of the officials bunkering in and not admitting error. And face it, any process involving Lee Mason will NEVER have any competence attached to it.It's not just the Prem, however. VAR is pretty bad in Serie A as well. Dale Self 135 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:40:58 Thank you very much. Leeds Utd 0-1 Man Utd. Not offside for me. Brent Stephens 136 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:41:37 And the VAR review allowed the goal. The VAR is brilliant! Dale Self 137 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:43:56 Need another 4 from Man Utd so we are out of the bottom three at kick-off. Brent Stephens 138 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:44:28 United 2-0 Dale Self 139 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:44:56 Make that three 0-2!!! Dale Self 140 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:46:31 I think Ten Hag just Carlo'd Leeds! Geoff Lambert 141 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:51:46 One thing is for sure: we are going to have to score more than 16 goals in our remaining games. But where are they going to come from?? Tony Hill 142 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:53:36 The Forest and Leeds results are significant for us. Any suggestion that we are doomed is absurd. Everything to play for, regardless of tomorrow. Rob Halligan 143 Posted 12/02/2023 at 15:58:32 Well, as a neutral, that game was shite. The first half probably the dullest game of football I've seen in ages. Second half not much better, but the result in the end was all that mattered. We should beat Leeds next week as they were dire. We just need to get above Leeds and I think we will be okay. Barry Hesketh 144 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:00:32 Never mind all this goal difference stuff, I hope that we are above the Hammers come the end of the game tomorrow, Danny O’Neill 145 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:03:20 I guess that's gone well for us, but we need to take care of our own business.Onto the place built on a native American burial ground. Barry Hesketh 146 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:09:09 The Premier League's referee chief Howard Webb has contacted both Arsenal and Brighton to apologise for "significant errors in the VAR process" following controversial decisions on Saturday.Ivan Toney's controversial equaliser for Brentford at the Emirates Stadium was allowed to stand while Pervis Estupinan's opener at Crystal Palace was disallowed due to "human error", the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) confirmed in a statement.Toney's goal meant that Arsenal dropped points in their pursuit of a first league title in almost 20 years before Manchester City face Aston Villa on Sunday.Lee Mason, the VAR for the London derby, "forgot" to draw the lines which would have shown Brentford's Christian Norgaard in an offside position before assisting the goal. A similar problem has been used to explain Brighton's disallowed goal.A statement read: "PGMOL can confirm its Chief Refereeing Officer Howard Webb has contacted both Arsenal and Brighton & Hove Albion to acknowledge and explain the significant errors in the VAR process in their respective Premier League fixtures on Saturday," the body said in a statement."Both incidents, which were due to human error and related to the analysis of offside situations, are being thoroughly reviewed by PGMOL."Titles, Champions League qualifying, relegation, all decided by a little man in a box somewhere… let's draw a line under the VAR once and for all Mr Webb. Tony Abrahams 147 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:10:55 Man Utd play a continental game but there is nothing like playing with a big centre-forward who is decent with the ball at his feet. Second and third phases allow you to get more players into the attacking third and, when you have got the speed, skill and desire that the little sub showed when scoring Man Utd's second, then you have always got a chance of winning any game. Rob Halligan 148 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:12:00 Barry, there's only one team that always benefit from the VAR, at either end of the pitch. Barry Hesketh 149 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:13:58 Rob @148They also benefit hugely from the VAR decisions that are made in the matches that they are not playing in – it does make me wonder sometimes. Will Mabon 150 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:14:08 Barry, it's lunacy beyond words, it really is. "Forgot" to draw the lines. Danny O’Neill 151 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:20:16 That second was a beautiful example of individual skill and desire Tony. Only one thing on his mind as soon as he received that ball.I'd only just commented on Man Utd's striker being isolated and their midfield not having much to aim for.Very familiar feel!To be fair, now Rashford has his head back on his football, he is flying. Oliver Molloy 152 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:26:07 Although tomorrow night is obviously a huge game, avoid a defeat and I for one will be happy.To give us a chance our next two home games are "must wins", 6 points required in any way we can.Like us, every team from Palace down are fighting for their lives.We need to try and drag teams above us into the battle while taking care of ourselves – there will be no easy games. Tony Abrahams 153 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:26:15 Howard Webb is only getting involved to apologize, just like Mike Riley did last season, when Everton were denied a certain penalty against Man City. That decision possibly cost Liverpool the league, although you could argue that Everton were denied a certain penalty at Anfield but, when Lampard questioned that decision, he was given only a fine for his thoughts.Human error, or is it human incompetence? It's an absolute joke that they can interview managers before the game, and players and managers after the game, but the incompetence of the referees and their counterparts in the VAR studio is still met by silence. So if you speak your mind, you can be charged with bringing the game into disrepute, but if your boss apologizes for your incompetence, then everything is just fine? This is simply scandalous. Rob Halligan 154 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:29:08 Besides, Barry, these apologies are futile. Doesn't get any lost points back. As you say, scrap the VAR altogether. We'd probably be four points better off if it weren't for the VAR. The Conor Coady goal against the shite, disallowed by the VAR because Milner didn't mean to touch the ball, and Demarai Gray's goal against Leeds disallowed by the VAR because his shadow was longer! What a crock of shit. Dave Abrahams 155 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:36:07 Mike (134), Mike will there any consequences to Howard Webb explaining and apologising for the “ human errors ‘ made by the VAR officials in those two games? I doubt beyond being stood down for a game or two. How about them officially censured, fined and being stood down for three months or so.Of course that won't happen because the majority of them would be stood down, they are that incompetent or biased, and there would none left to referee the games most weeks, is there any really good referees around today? Rob Halligan 156 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:46:46 Haaland did nothing wrong there.. Martinez was not in full control of the ball, and Haaland was perfectly entitled to go for the ball. No foul and the goal should have stood. Brent Stephens 157 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:47:13 Dave #155 "How about them officially censured, fined and being stood down for three months or so."Maybe restrict them to games in June and July?! Dave Abrahams 158 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:53:24 Brent (157), How about restricting their breathing for about fifteen minutes or so, make that twenty five minutes!! Brent Stephens 159 Posted 12/02/2023 at 16:56:48 Dave, there wouldn't be any shortage of volunteers for administering the penalty! Dave Abrahams 160 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:00:19 Brent (159),True Brent, unfortunately my religion and loving nature won't allow me to be one of those volunteers!! Tony Abrahams 161 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:04:23 I thought exactly the same Rob. Harland only had eyes for the ball, and was also getting his shirt pulled. I thought the Villa keeper should have punched the ball, because he was concentrating just as much on the on rushing City player, and I would also have let play continue because of this? Rob Halligan 162 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:21:16 3-0 at half time. Can see Pep making a few substitutions at half time, bearing in mind they have Arsenal away in midweek. Pete Clarke 163 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:33:46 If the VAR is going to be used for all incidents, then a closer look at Grealish tripping himself up for that penalty may have earned him a red card for blatant cheating. That's what I'd like to see anyway. What makes it worse, we have to hear dickhead pundits accepting that he made the most of little contact instead of condemning him for doing it. There's a lot I dislike or hate about this once great sport and that kind of unsportsmanlike cheating is as low as it gets and gives football a really bad name. Bill Gall 164 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:38:51 See they are resting Haaland for the midweek game this second half... Mark Murphy 165 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:42:19 Pete,I totally agree – and that sort of cheating has been going on for so long now. That's how Gerrard got Hibbert sent off in that derby! Blatant cheating – and should be called out as such. Tony Abrahams 166 Posted 12/02/2023 at 17:45:11 Against his old club as well, Pete, and then trying to justify it to the lad who he had just cheated. The sin bin can't come quick enough for these kinds of antics, but I still wouldn't trust these officials to get it right. Going on, but I think television demands controversy, simply because there isn't that many great games that can get people talking, especially since the game became a saturated television sport. Danny O’Neill 167 Posted 12/02/2023 at 18:28:43 I keep saying, the VAR isn't the problem. Used correctly, it's the solution, like when I watched the Rugby at the weekend. Transparency and openess.It's the officials and them hiding behind their egos and incompetence, be that on the pitch or in Stockley Park. Christopher Timmins 168 Posted 12/02/2023 at 18:39:30 Hard to credit the VAR can get it wrong so often.A big 6 days coming up; a positive result tomorrow would be great but, more importantly, we must start beating the teams around – us starting with Leeds on Saturday.Our recent record against teams at the bottom is shocking, we must arrest the situation! Danny O’Neill 169 Posted 12/02/2023 at 18:49:49 Forget his goals, that vision and pass from Haaland to set up the simple tap-in was sublime.He may be a striker, but he's a team player. Pete Fishwick 171 Posted 14/04/2023 at 14:14:46 Looks like all charges are dropped ! 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