Everton 1 - 0 West Ham United

Everton secured their first win of the season over relegation strugglers West Ham United thanks to a fine strike by Neal Maupay for his first goal in an otherwise difficult match that was full of errors and could far too easily have gone the other way.

Injury problems continue to plague Finch Farm with Jordan Pickford the latest casualty, who joins Godfrey, Mina, and Townsend in the recovery room. But massive expectation surrounded the possible return of Dominic Calvert-Lewin, whose fame as a lethal striker knows no bounds after scoring the dramatic goal against Crystal Palace that kept Everton in the Premier League last season. 

Only he fails to make the squad. Gana Gueye is preferred over Tom Davies, while Begovic steps up in goal, with new stand-in keeper Eldin Jakupovic making his first Everton showing on the bench as Andy Lonergan is injured.  

The visitors kicked off but Antonio soon strayed offside and Everton laboured to play out from the back until Onana was fouled.  Patterson made a poor giveaway that led to a West Ham counter and corner, successfully defended.

It was ponderous at best from Everton trying to move forward until Patterson looked a deep cross to Fabianski.  Maupay did very well to steal of Suofal but Iwobi could not Myko got beaten so easily and the cross almost forced a Coady own goal, the corner swung in but cleared. 

At the other end, a great pass from Onana put Gra into space to cross but it evaded Gordon. Better pressure saw Patterson's cross put behind for an Everton corner that seemed to be falling for Onana, then Paqueta commits and trips Gray wide right for a free-kick and a free header for Onana, who jumped too early. 

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Paqueta was allowed another poor challenge, this one on Gueye, but the free-kick was poorly overhit by Gray. Gueye then stood on Bowen's ankle as West Ham countered quickly again. Gray involved again but his distribution was poor. 

Onana brushed off Declan Rice with a deft shuffle and Mykolenko swung in a decent cross but it was cleared and Paqueta was almost played in but for a good interception by Coady. But a string of West Ham corners had to be defended.

Another Gray delivery wasn't good enough, with Mylenko wildly lashing a shot well wide. 

Everton broke through Gray but he kept the ball a fraction too long yet again, and last the ball. Everton's next attack was a little more fluid until Maupay this time delayed things then Gray let the ball run out.

Everton were tested with yet another corner, Begovic saving the header easily. Coady took out Antonio and earned the first yellow card. Mykolenko was next with a silly shirt pull on Paqueta but escaped a card. Everton tried to build again but the pace of the move was lacking and the lack of passing accuracy ultimately saw the move break down. 

Another half-decent Everton build-up and Gray's cross looked good but it was cleared. Continuous Everton pressure ensued but Zouma was a rock getting his head onto most crosses coming in. Zouma then took out Maupay but escaped a card. 

Onana started to get a bit sloppy with his passing but Everton won the ball back and Gordon got a corner. But the balls in were not smart enough and kept coming back out with Fabianski still to make a save or see a shot on his goal. 

Gordon went down easily but won a free-kick. Gray delivered it over everyone, Onana not jumping for it. Gordon made a good strong tackle on Fornals that was much appreciated by the crowd but the Everton build-up again was far too ponderous.

Yet another turnover and Tarkowski needed to put in a strong tackle on Antonio, but it led to another West Ham corner that was half cleared, Cresswell's ball in glanced at Begovic by Zouma. And that ended a half off stalemate where both teams had successfully cancelled each other out. 

A quicker forward move after the restart looked s if Gray had a chance but he didn't really, and the Everton corners were headed clear. At the other end, Bowen should have at least got his shot on target from a very smart pullback off Fornals.

Gray drove in and fired at Fabianski – the first shot on target! But straight at the keeper, when he really should have laid it back. Gordon seemed out of sorts as he passed well behind Onana. Would anything bring this game to life? 

The answer was Yes, and the answer was Maupay, who turned in traffic to lash a brilliant pass from Iwobi between Fabianski and his near post, a fine strike! Antonio tried to beat Begovic but couldn't and Everton surged into attack again.

Everton won a corner that caused momentary panic but they had to be careful when they lost the ball as West Ham flooded forward with pace, Gordon having to play last man at the expense of a corner.

Tarkowski then had to make a crucial block as West Ham kept coming forward. 

Cornet came on for Paqueta and was immediately fouled – yellow card for Gordon, who got wide but his cross was overhit. Gray again advanced and crossed between forwards and goal. 

More corners for West Ham, Soucek so close with a glancing header that flew across goal, Mykolenko stooping to avoid contact at the far post but another corner given, this time a Zouma header was blocked. 

More West Ham corners needed defending but when the ball broke for Gray, he just stopped dead, and any momentum was lost. McNeil replaced Gordon, but it was almost constant West Ham pressure, with painfully slow breakouts by Everton on the turnover, a poor one from Gana leading to a tremendous shot from Benrhama, smacking the far post with Begovic frozen. 

Gray had another great run in and was tackled, Iwobi firing just over the bar.  But Everton were living dangerously as West Ham continued to search for an equalizer. Onana needed treatment for a knock on his thigh as Doucouré replaced Gray.

Cornet overlapped dangerously and fired a good shot that forced a good save from Begovic. Benrhama messed up the corner, much to the annoyance of David Moyes. Everton tried a dangerous game of keep-ball until Iwobi was tempted into a wild shot off-target.

Cornet came very close to scoring, Patterson and Tarkowski getting the finest of touches to push him to the byeline and the side netting, as Rondon replaced Maupay. Into the last minute of real time and more keep-ball from Everton to try and run down the clock. 

Into 5 minutes of added time and a very anxious Goodison park craving for the win, but filled with silent trepidation when West Ham attacked. Doucoure with a chance to make a break played his pass straight path the West Ham player nearest to him.

West Ham came back, Bowen forcing a fingertip touch over for yet another West Ham corner. Tarkowski headed it on to Rice when sent it back to Tarkowski and into the hands of Begovic. 

Scammacca then leapt aggressively into Gueye, causing a bit of a handbag session which added another minute until the final whistle came on a precious first Everton win of the season. 

Everton:   Begovic, Patterson, Tarkowski, Coady [Y:28'], Mykolenko, Iwobi, Gana, Onana, Gray  (81' Doucoure), Maupay  (89' Rondon), Gordon [Y:62'] (75' McNeil [Y:90+4']).

Subs not Used: Jakupovic, Keane, Coleman, Davies, Vinagre, Garner.

West Ham Utd: Fabianski, Kehrer, Zouma, Cresswell (90+3' Emerson), Coufal, Soucek, Rice, Fornals (62' Benrahma), Bowen, Lucas Paqueta (62,' Cornet), Antonio (70' Scamacca [Y:90+5']).

Subs not Used: Lanzini, Downes, Areola, Dawson, Ogbonna.

Reader Comments (219)

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Jimmy Salt
1 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:25:08
Surprised Tarkowski wasn't given the armband.
Ciarán McGlone
2 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:28:09
Best starting line up and formation out of the available players.

A draw is a must.. a win a bonus.

James Marshall
3 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:29:01
I thought DCL was going to be available this week? Or have I missed a meeting...
Will Mabon
4 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:31:08
Jimmy, I think Coady may have out-gobbed Tarkowski.
David Hallwood
5 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:31:39
Gives DCL another 2 weeks to get him totally match fit. Let's hope that ends his horrible run of injuries.
Martin Clark
6 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:31:49
Think most would as Coady is on loan but seems to be a certain signing with the terms of his loan.
Garry Martin
7 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:35:47
Tarkowski or Coady, either will do for me. Both appear to be better leaders than we've had for the last 28 months. COYB
Mike Hayes
8 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:37:44
Should be enough to win this COYB UTFT IFWT💙
Phil Bickerstaff
9 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:39:08
Get Iwobi off and play Doucouré.
Will Mabon
10 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:43:12
Phil, not on current form surely?
Ciarán McGlone
11 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:46:16
Take our most consistent and improved player off and play someone who's been fairly unimpressive and coming back from an injury?

Wise up.

Kunal Desai
12 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:48:36
He's out for 5 more weeks apparently.
Jim Bennings
13 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:49:49
About as good a team as we could put out really.

Thought DCL would be on the bench, maybe at Southampton, if not then perhaps this injury is lingering on more than first anticipated?

We need to turn in a power-packed performance.

It's one thing doing it againt Liverpool but until we reach a level of consistency there will remain questions.

Kevin Molloy
14 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:52:49
DCL was slated to return for the Arsenal match after making 'good progress'.

Here we are a week later, and he doesn't even make the squad. Feels ominous. We've been down this road before.

And this all started from a stupid broken toe, not football related. He must feel desperate.

Steve Brown
15 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:54:38
The Bobble saying the club have decided to ease him back after the international break.

Or should we repeat the mistake that fool Benitez made by rushing him back only for him to break down again?

Keith Meakin
16 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:57:09
I can see a red card in this match… hopefully for the Hammers.
James Marshall
17 Posted 18/09/2022 at 13:59:16
DCL just a precaution according to Lampard - keeping him under wraps for a few more weeks post-International break. Makes some sense to be careful I spose.
Steve Shave
18 Posted 18/09/2022 at 14:06:54
Phil @9, that's the 2nd time you've said that on recent threads, this particular comment slightly less 'troll-like' than the first. Iwobi (quite unbelievably 12 months ago) has been the first name on our team sheet for quite some time.

Doucoure blows hot and cold, especially under Frank and is not yet match fit. Why on earth would you take off our fittest and most in-form player for him? It's all about opinions and I must respect yours but still it seems a strange shout.

If the Doucoure was to return, I would push Iwobi into an even freer forward role in the place of Gray. I suspect your boy Doucoure will soon find himself behind Garner as well as Iwobi.

Christy Ring
19 Posted 18/09/2022 at 14:10:21
Kunal #12,

More ridiculous rumours, Frank is giving him an extra two weeks to get fit, which makes sense.

I see Branthwaite has scored for PSV.

Ciarán McGlone
20 Posted 18/09/2022 at 14:12:11
Steve... equally daft comment suggesting moving Iwobi forward into a position he failed at - from a deeper role where he has excelled.
Jim Bennings
21 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:02:43
Flat as a pancake this.

We need to start getting men forward otherwise we'll never score any goals at this rate.

Ciarán McGlone
22 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:03:15
Very respectable half of football. The difference with Onana, Gana and Iwobi running the centre is chalk and cheese.

Only concern for me is Tarkowski. Continues to be caught out of position quite a lot.

Need to keep the effort up and this us there to be won.

Ray Roche
23 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:06:45
I see Iwobi’s getting stick from the usual airheads on the Live Forum. 🤦🏼‍♂️
Ernie Baywood
24 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:08:55
Industrious even impressive at times but hard to see how a goal will come. West Ham seem happy to usher us wide and then clamp down on the wide players.

Unpopular opinion... Gana slows down play too much. Great to have a solid defensive base but if we hesitate in that position then there's a very well drilled team ahead of him getting themselves organised.

We've probably been the better side, yet West Ham have looked more dangerous.

Alan J Thompson
25 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:12:49
Difficult to comment properly on the first half as the usual crap Optus service had the sound like 2 tractors arguing and the picture freezing every 2 minutes and seemingly in slow motion most of the rest of time.

However, at times our defence looked a little asleep, disorganized while at the other end nobody seems to want to put their head in where it hurts. Maupay looks like a short centre-half who is lousy in the air and has been pushed forward to make up the numbers.

We could and should have done better with some of those attacks while we still have trouble putting in decent crosses, and corners, we should have a plan by now.

Frank needs at least some stern words at half time if not a boot or two up some backsides.

Des Farren
26 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:15:02
Industrious is a good word to describe us but our front three look to have little cutting edge.
Christy Ring
27 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:18:58
Gordon has to start attacking the fullback, he has been totally ineffective in the first half.
Des Farren
28 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:29:12
Retract my earlier comment! Really good goal – let's get another.
Ernie Baywood
29 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:31:02
Retract my comment too. The first two times Gueye got the ball he moved it forward quickly and got attackers on the ball early.

Great goal.

Dean Cooper
30 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:33:06
Say what you want about Maupay or Calvert-Lewin, but Calvert-Lewin is not scoring that first goal of ours tonight. I didn't principally agree with the signing but I like our new set up and I like what he brings us.

Neal before him.

Ciarán McGlone
31 Posted 18/09/2022 at 15:36:27
Dean... that's the first thing I said when Maupay scored.
Ciarán McGlone
32 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:09:43
That game was won in midfield. We finally have a midfield 3 who complement each other and can work the ball forward.

Worrying though that Frank moved Iwobi to the wing to accommodate a less than impressive Doucoure... not sure why Gray got hooked either.

Fair play to Maupay, he took that goal superbly.

But great win and green shoots... a relegation battle was never a reality this season.

George Cumiskey
33 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:11:36
Great result… shocking performance.
Ernie Baywood
34 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:18:14
Green shoots indeed. That first 10 minutes of the second half showed what we can be. Moving the ball quickly and getting our fast attackers on the ball early.

Once we scored we went straight back into the safe mode we played the first half in. Plenty of the ball but too happy to play the easy pass backwards. As a result, we end up with the fullbacks having plenty of the ball and the wingers not having much to work with.

We were the better team, and West Ham were pretty poor. That didn't need to be as tense as it got.

Won't judge Doucoure too much given how little he's played but Ciaran's 'less than impressive' is probably a bit generous!

Steve Brown
35 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:19:01
Maupay was getting stick on the Live Forum in the first half. No idea why, as he was mobile, linked play up well and put himself about. Hopefully, that great finish will get them off his back.

Gana was immense, Iwobi and Gray very good as were the centre-halves. Gordon had an off-day and should have got hooked earlier.

We deserved to win.

Lester Yip
36 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:25:22
Great home win! We all sensed a win is coming close and finally here we go.

A win with a clean sheet at home. Keep this momentum up!

I think it's wise to get Doucouré match fit again fast. Even though now we have Onana and Gueye, with the press and intensity we're playing, another player who brings energy and ground coverage is always welcome.

And happy with Maupay's strike. Maybe he wouldn't score 2 digits in a season. But what an important goal it is!

Kevin Molloy
37 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:25:37
West Ham's fans will be freaking the fuck out after that… who cares about them, though?

You can allow for a performance like that when it's your first win, we desperately needed it.

Terrific goal from Maupay, made up for him.

Alan J Thompson
38 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:26:17
Again, difficult to comment when the coverage seems to be a series of 30 seconds of still photographs interspersed with 10 seconds of movement.

The goal looked a nice move but more impromptu rather than practised while their keeper didn't seem to have his positioning right, another "Well who'd have thought he would shoot from there?"

Again, I couldn't follow the substitutions, maybe McNeil was like for like when I thought an extra, more mobile midfield man would have been better and why Rondon with 2 minutes + extra time to play?

Still, an important win over a club below us in the Premier League.

Mike Gaynes
39 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:26:30
It wasn't the most competent performance -- lots of missed passes -- but it was certainly a passionate and organized one.

Everybody worked their socks off, did their jobs, covered for each other. And one excellent moment by Iwobi and Maupay won it.

David Hallwood
40 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:28:50
Ciarán (#32) is right, but the problem is that they show little ambition in the final 3rd, or to make up the numbers in the box.

It does look a great, well-balanced midfield but I can't see where the goals are coming from.

Jerome Shields
41 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:29:47
Everton passed a milestone today, a win after a football break.

At last, a striker that can finish. Defence outstanding and midfield much improved. I thought Doucoure could have upped a bit. Gueye is a great signing.

Goodison respectful to the Queen.

Garry Martin
42 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:32:03
Well done boys, looked composed and organised, showed more ideas and, of course, we won.

Keep it going, lads!

Christy Ring
43 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:41:15
A huge win and a great finish by Maupay. I know we made a few mistakes, but solid at the back and in midfield.

Gray and Maupay put in a shift but Gordon was poor, but how George could say it was a shocking performance, extreme to say the least.

Ian Edwards
44 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:43:05
Much needed win. They all battled and fought. But we can't expect to score 1 and hang on for 30 mins every game. Lampard needs to work out a formation that creates more.
Kunal Desai
45 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:44:18
Good win, great finish and a much-needed 3 points ground out.

The lack of firepower and goals in this side is still a concern.

Mike Hayes
46 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:44:46
Pity about this international break but it gives the chance to get injured players back.

We are starting to look like a decent team, just need the game time to get the players used to playing with each other. Still frustrating at times to see forward runs only for the ball to be back in our own half – you don't score from there.

Overall, a decent game and it will give us the momentum to push on up the table. UTFT COYB IFWT NSNO

Barry Williams
47 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:44:49
We all see the games in different ways – as the comments above attest. I watched on TV, but watching live is a different experience.

That said, I think something is happening here. Slowly but surely we are becoming a team – not a bunch of individuals, a team of fighters, triers and no divers.

The midfield was the first time they have played together today from the start. A lot of new players to bed in, but there is cohesiveness, intent, fight, spirit and 2 clean sheets in a row – 5 undefeated in a row.

Whisper it – things are a-changing. A young manager, decent coaching staff, a togetherness in the players and fans… something not seen for a while. Plus options: McNeil, Doucoure and Rondon (yes, Rondon) are not bad options to bring on – compared to say when Ancelotti had 2 keepers on the bench.

The ball is moved faster, the defenders contemplating better, players talking or berating each other.

Yip - I see progress, major progress.

Also, I can watch Everton without the feeling of embarrassment as there were no theatrics today - my real bane of the modern game that has all but switched me off from it!

Bill Gienapp
49 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:50:11
That was probably the (most realistic) best case scenario. Defense - excellent. Midfield - excellent. Attack - industrious, but lacking in cutting edge. Made our one chance count, and the clean sheet did the rest.

These are extremely fine margins to live on, but the hope is that, as Calvert-Lewin is eased back and the side continues to gel and grow in confidence, more goals will come. The important thing is that we've got that first win in the bank, the monkey's off our back, and now we can kick on.

Rick Tarleton
50 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:50:16
Pretty it wasn't, but you can't fault the effort. Creativity was limited, but Iwobi was immense, he was always available and was my man of the match — something I never thought I'd ever say or write!
George Cumiskey
51 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:50:49

I said 'shocking' because, once we scored, we sat back and let them come at us. Better teams than West ham will take advantage of that.

I think we're at our best when we're on the front foot. And McNeil and Doucouré were poor when they came on and that put more pressure on us.

Mark Murphy
52 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:52:37
Dean & Ciaran - not taking anything away from Maupay - it was a good finish and maybe Calvert-Lewin wouldn't have scored it - but when Gray hit that cross shot moments later across goal my thoughts were that Calvert-Lewin would have got on the end of that.
Roger Helm
53 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:55:07
I couldn't go to the match due to illness so watched it on TV.

I thought it was a good performance: solid, organised, hardworking. Iwobi has become such a good player under Frank, he was my MotM.

The two young fullbacks are improving nicely. Gordon and Onana didn't really get in the game much but Gray did very well.

Surprised no one made much of the incident when Gray went down, it seemed a clear penalty to me as the defender missed the ball and tripped the player.

Importantly, we now seem to be hard to beat, which is a good starting point.

Will Mabon
54 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:55:33
George, that is a problem that needs working out. Been that way too many times and so nearly cost us again today. Hopefully the belief will grow in the team and Lampard to stop this over-safety stuff as we improve.
Philip Bunting
55 Posted 18/09/2022 at 16:59:43
Brilliant – just Brilliant all round, a real team effort and teamwork. Couldn't say that before this season, could we?

We sprayed the ball left to right at times, Iwobi and Gray outstanding knitting it all together. I thought Gordon was off the pace as we need more from him in the final 3rd. Other than that, happy days.

Well done, Frank, with the complete overall in a short space of time. I didn't think it was possible but I'm made up with every signing so far.

John Raftery
56 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:01:14
I didn't think we were that anxious in the closing stages. Generally we were able to control possession as West Ham became increasingly desperate to make something happen up front.

Overall, I thought we did well controlling the game in midfield, looking composed on the ball and always posing a threat on the break. A good win which lifts us into mid-table.

Jacques Sandtonian
57 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:03:13
We're still learning to play when we have possession. I'm sure it's difficult for Frank to find the right balance of pragmatism and risk. The team doesn't look comfortable trying to kill off a game and that has to change.

That said, we are improved and improving. We've signed proper Everton players, men with character and a little bit of shithousery to them. It's a good base for Frank to build from.

Danny Baily
58 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:06:37
Delighted with that. That really was must win and we did it.

Another 9 or so of those and we can breathe a bit easier.

Ian Bennett
59 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:07:59
Big 3 points and the defensive foundations are strong. A real good base to add attacking threat to.
Christy Ring
60 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:10:45
George #51,

Moyes spent big money during the summer, and the Hammers have a strong squad. We'll also meet weaker teams this season.

Having Calvert-Lewin back after the break, and our midfield getting more time to gel, will be a big plus.

Stu Darlington
61 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:15:42
A much-needed win today. Defence and midfield looked pretty sound for most of the game, but we didn't get the ball forward quickly enough as we did against Liverpool.

I don't know why we go back into this defensive mode so often, but if we continue to do it, we are going to get caught out against more attacking teams.

I thought Gordon was off the boil today, as he was against Liverpool, maybe still a hangover from summer transfer rumours. I would have subbed him earlier and reshuffled the formation a little to give Garner a run out.

Barry Rathbone
62 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:20:09
Great news getting 3 points as Premier League survival remains the overriding objective and being winless at this juncture would have made for twitchy bottoms.


Drew O’Neall
63 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:24:27
‘Relegation strugglers West Ham'?

Is that a petty reaction to comments from their camp leading up to the game or ignorance to the fact they finished 7th and are playing in Europe, somewhere we aspire to be?

Joe Digney
64 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:25:51
Doesn't half feel good, that winning feeling.

Enjoy your Sunday afternoon, Blues.

I'm off for a few celebratory super bocks with the Mrs 🍻🍻.

Christopher Timmins
65 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:35:37
I am more than hopeful of a much more comfortable season than the last one. We are better in all sectors compared to last year.
Peter Neilson
66 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:37:17
Pretty much everything good involved Iwobi. What a fantastic turnaround. His confidence is sky high and always asking for the ball. MoTM for me.

Excellent goal by Maupay as well, that'll help him settle quickly. Three well-deserved points.

Ray Jacques
67 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:38:44
I see progress.

The biggest improvement is playing a back four. Two solid centre-backs and a good, young and quick right back at last.
Centre of midfield, solid and some creativity which we were desperately missing.

Tony Everan
68 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:41:29
Important win. Wasn't pretty but who cares, it was all about the 3 points today. Absolutely delighted with the fight to get it over the line.

Tarkowski, Coady with the ever industrious Gana in front of them make us much more solid. Three great professionals to have at our core. Begovic deserves a mention, looked reassured today.

Iwobi continues to impress. I like the way he is accepting responsibility and looking to receive the ball. Also Patterson, a few mistakes but another good performance from the young lad.

Maupay took his goal very well, what a great finish. We're are still light in the attacking department. This win gives us time now to get Calvert-Lewin back 100%. Then he will start and any two from Gordon, Maupay and Gray will be fighting it out.

Eddie Dunn
71 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:45:19
I see that game as a stepping stone, with the midfield and defence growing in understanding. We have exactly the same problems as last season in terms of our attacking play.

Gray, won MotM (not player) but his final ball/cross is still either just in front of its target or over his head and his set-pieces were not the best.

Doucoure came on and although he was naturally a bit rusty, he immediately gave the ball away for them to counter, and subsequently misplaced at least two or three more passes, one of which could have put us in on goal.

He also left his man, to double-up on their winger, allowing the lad to pop it inside to the unmarked teammate. Such mistakes could have cost us the game.

Indeed the game had been drifting in West Ham's favour for too long, before Lampard made his subs.

In previous matches, this reactive, rather than proactive, strategy has been our undoing, as it almost was again when Benrhama hit the post.

I suspect Gordon's lack of penetration was down to instructions to keep tight on Bowen and Cresswell.

It is nice to have the rub of the green for a change and the releatively healthy appearance of mid-table obscurity will surely lift the morale in the camp and encourage more confidence going forward.

Frank lapped it up at the end. He knows how to engage with the fans, even though it wasn't exactly a thumping win!

Wonder what he will do if we stuff someone?

Jeff Armstrong
72 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:45:45
Iwobi’s turnaround in 6 months is Lazarus like.
Got to give Lampard credit there, amazing.
Peter Hodgson
73 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:49:19
It didn't feel as though we were going to win today. In fact, it didn't feel as though either team was going to win as neither were very good at all. I was depressed as I saw another draw coming up.

Then Maupay scored with a superb shot and they, as expected, didn't really have any sort of response. However, that didn't stop me having a squeeky bum right up to the final whistle as I expected them to get one back with a fluke goal or be given one by another wonky Oliver decision.

True joy when that didn't happen, though, as if either team deserved to win it was us because we, at least, were the more deserving.

Onwards and upwards. We have started now. All we have to do is carry on with the good work. The midfield and defence can keep it tight but let's have more end product up front.

Derek Taylor
74 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:57:49
Churlish to criticise that performance. I'd settle for its like every game if it brought the 3 points with it!

But then, what would ToffeeWebbers have to write about, the School of Science that most of them never witnessed, anyway?

David West
75 Posted 18/09/2022 at 17:59:24
As some have said, it was all about the points today. The longer you go without a win, the more it affects morale and the mentality of the team and the crowd.

Maupay took his goal well, like a true striker, knew where the goal was and instinctively hit it. Gray or Gordon wouldn't have scored that, they don't have that instinct. That's what you get with a natural striker.

Defence looks like they are getting stronger each match, with the midfielders settling too it will take time to develop an understanding. Signs are promising.

This is another match we would've lost easily last season. So progress is there for all to see. A bit more fluidity going forward is the key now, we are so much more comfortable in possession. Iwobi, Onana, Gana all played well. It gives us a real base to build from.

James Flynn
76 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:01:48
We need to get an attack going, but GA of 6 goals in 7 is a great start.

Patterson a legit prospect. To have so few games under his belt at 20 (21 in a few weeks) and being a Starting-11 player in such a tough league, yet look like he belongs.

Terry Farrell
77 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:05:45
Not a classic but a great 3 points. Gray was superb. Iwobi and Onana were great and Gana and the defence.

Gordon must have a virus or something because he had no energy whatsoever and I was surprised he stayed on as long as he did.

I would love Iwobi, when he gets 25 yards out, to keep running with the ball into the box and see what develops because he has so much skill but he tends to get so far and release it first time.

Hope the reason Dom wasn't on the bench isn't a set-back.

Peter Carpenter
79 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:15:31
Optimistic (moderately) for the first time in a long time.
Peter Carpenter
80 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:19:26
We are much better at defending corners. Lots of practice today.
Martin Mason
81 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:21:32
In the circumstances, it was an excellent result. We need to keep picking up the points now and gelling closer and closer.

We have some players who are as good as all but the best, such as Iwobi and Gana; the rest are improving.

John Keating
82 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:22:40
3 points was all that mattered today.

Get points on the board, confidence will grow and performances improve.

Great team effort.

Peter Carpenter
83 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:23:56
Wasn't sure about Gueye coming back but I am now. How many times does he win the ball back without tackling?
Jeff Armstrong
84 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:23:58
Peter #80, correct about defending the corners, so much stronger and organised with Coady and Tarkowski getting everyone else in position.

But, on at least 3 occasions in the first half, we could have broken from their corners if only Lampard would leave Gray or someone on the halfway line as an out ball.

Wasted opportunities.

Kieran Kinsella
85 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:26:57
Six games unbeaten, consecutive clean sheets. Positive momentum. We win today despite the sky having fallen when Pickford got injured.

Maupay scored even though he couldn't hit a barn door. We played a back four again even though “cowardly Frank” insists on a back five.

Gotta love ToffeeWeb experts like Ian who wanted bottom-of-the-table Brenda in charge.

Meanwhile we beat a usually good West Ham Utd and some say “They're crap now though” while we drew with in-form (at the time) Leeds and Brentford and the same people were saying “But they're usually crap”.

So we can't win for losing in some people's eyes. Maybe they're among those who booed today?

Peter Carpenter
86 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:27:30
Exactly right, Jeff.

I have bored the shit out of everyone around me for years, going on about leaving 1 player up the field at corners.

The only one to do it – Fat Sam.

Jeff Armstrong
87 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:30:24
Yes, spot on about Allardyce, the most anti-football coach we have had and it's only him who left a player up top for corners of our recent coaches.

You must sit near me in the Top Balcony cos that's all we go on about too.

Peter Carpenter
88 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:35:02
I am in the Top Balcony but the guys around tell me to 'shut the fuck up!'
Tony Abrahams
90 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:45:43
Barry W @47, you can't write whisper it, and expect it to go unnoticed mate, but I'm also getting similar feelings!

We still have a long way to go, especially as an attacking force, but we are definitely starting to look like a team, and Iwobi is starting to look like a footballer who was coached by Arsene Wenger.

Patterson and Onana both showed their inexperience at times today but you sense they are both going to be massive players for Everton in the future. They are tenacious, and do a lot of good things very naturally, so that was a very important 3 points we got today.

Maupay is not the tallest, but he works hard and the ball sticks, and that was one brilliant instinctive goal, that was! badly needed.

Bill Gall
92 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:52:42
It was a decent team win with signs that we are not going to be in a relegation fight as Lampard and his coaches are starting to strengthen the problems from last season and that is our central defense, and midfield.

Everton are still a work in progress, but the win today will add to their confidence. The signs of the improvement can be seen in our Goal Difference of –1.

Everyone will have their own opinions of the MotM but I prefer it as, the team won the points and kept a clean sheet. For once, we have a bit of luck, with the international break, giving us a chance to improve some of our injuries.

We do need strengthening up front but, as the next window is a couple of months away, the service to our present forwards will have to improve.

That first win was needed and we can relax for a couple of weeks, and hope the 5 games without a loss can continue with more wins than draws.

Barry Williams
93 Posted 18/09/2022 at 18:53:45
Tony Abrahams - 90

It has gone unnoticed Tony – except by you! Cheers! So, whispered it metaphorically was!

The thing is, despite the new faces in the team, the team looks more gelled than it has in a long time. Even Patterson and Mykolenko, though Benitez signings, are basically new and starting first-team football this season.

The two centre-backs are new, two new midfielders, Iwobi in a new position, and a new centre-forward. Somehow, they are looking like a team, and I would go as far to say, a decent squad.

We are light up top to a degree, but it was also noticeable that the 3 players substituted today were the forward players.

We also have some versatility in the squad now.

Mike Gaynes
94 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:11:10
Roger #53, not sure what your broadcast showed, but NBC showed a replay that clearly saw the defender get the ball. It was a clean tackle.

Peter #80, I loved that. I hate giving up goals on corners more than I hate broccoli and brussels sprouts put together. Great improvement in this area.

Barry Williams
95 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:15:04
Mike @94,

Talking of broccoli and brussels sprouts put together – that could describe the Calvert-Lewin & Richarlison partnership for me!

Anyways, things are looking better!

Mark Murphy
96 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:21:08
Martin Mason @ 81. I agree!

ps: I'm away this week - see you next week.

On today, the thing that got me was that we just look like a well drilled unit with a solid back four and protection from centre mid and I didn't think West Ham would score even if we played an hour more.

Once Calvert-Lewin is back firing, we can work on opening up. Demarai Gray needs more confidence to keep going when he's at speed.

And Patterson will be a legend!

David Hallwood
97 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:25:59
I said this after the derby but it reminds me of 1984, we had struggled for a couple of seasons, and the ugly duckling was on the verge of turning into a beautiful swan, More work to do but going in the right direction.

We kept Rice quiet today which shows how good the midfield was, as he ran the show for the last 2 seasons. Need more goals from midfield and gamble more in the final 1/3.

Jeff Armstrong
98 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:32:45
Something is definitely stirring down at Goodison Park...

In a Guardian article before the season began, a series of questions where asked of fans of each club, one question asked who will be the first manager sacked?

I think 16 of 20 said Lampard... tosh!

I think we are all feeling positive after our last 6 games (unbeaten) and it won't be long before others start catching on.

Lampard is reminding me of Kendall Mk I.

Peter Carpenter
99 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:35:43
It looks and feels like a professional team in charge who have recognised the weaknesses, realised they won't be put right in one go, have taken a step-by-step approach to improving things – starting at the back – and know there is plenty still to be done. I don't think we've had a management team as good for years.
Michael Lynch
100 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:39:42
Great 3 points from a very composed performance. West Ham might count themselves a touch unlucky not to get a point.

Gana was magnificent for me – his composure is something else, and he looks so confident all the time. And we look so much better at the back compared to last season.

Nick Page
101 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:41:48
Fucking miles better that, back to front. Competitive in midfield. Movement. Players showing. Closing down. Pace. Wow. All we're lacking is a cutting edge up front.

Moyes still a dour bastard. Bought well and they have good players but he has no bollocks. The twat. Love Coady. Proper scouser. And imagine doubting Gana. A player.

Everton. The Gear!

Tony Hill
102 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:49:26
Coady is a huge influence on the team and was excellent today with the crowd.

It wasn't a classic but the link betweeen the manager, the team and the crowd is fully intact and will pay dividends over time.

I thought Maupay was impressive today apart from his goal. Looks a sound signing.

Robert Tressell
103 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:49:43
9 players in the starting 11 with barely any game time with us. It's obviously a work in progress. But we beat a West Ham side with a good solid base that's spent a lot of money over summer.

Good if unspectacular result.

All those fretting about relegation can stop fretting. This is a well-assembled side that is getting better. Best First XI since the end of the season Silva got us to 8th.

Once we get into a rhythm, we might give someone a good hiding.

Also, Patterson is an absolutely cracking player. Grit, class and dynamism.

Also, Peter at 86, Fat Sam – for all his faults – knows how to do set-pieces.

Martin Mason
104 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:52:45
Nick, Coady is from St Helens but he's picked up a good scouse accent.


See you soon, I hope.

Julian Exshaw
105 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:55:37
Not spectacular but solid. The back 4 is as good as anything we have seen for years and while the midfield isn't full of flair, it is energetic and working well as a unit. It can only continue to improve with Onana and Gana getting more games under their belts.

This is steady stuff from Lampard. It feels like he is going back to important basics; getting the defence right, getting the teamwork and attitude right. The signings of Gana, Coady and Tarkowski appear to be masterstrokes.

Though I liked Lampard as a person, I wasn't entirely convinced by him last season but his attitude and demeanour are growing on me by the game.

Tempting as it is to dream of greater things this season, I think it will be a question of building a team which may well take longer to complete than our magnificent stadium. Thinking back to a year ago, though, we would have settled for this then.

Tony Hill
106 Posted 18/09/2022 at 19:58:55
Patterson had a mixed game today and got a right verbal volley from Gordon at one point. But everything about this young man and his attitude suggests we have a very fine prospect indeed.
David West
107 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:01:40
Kieran @85. Yes, lad!!!

You can't please all the people all the time!
You can't please all of ToffeeWeb any of the time!!
But you can silence a lot of the doubters some of the time!!!

I'm not getting carried away. There wasn't a lot to get carried away with. It's about small steps. Incremental progress. That's what we are seeing.

Defence not made of wet cardboard ✔️
Midfield not collapsing at the slightest glimpse of a Battle ✔️
Keeping hold of the ball for more than a few passes ✔️
A striker scoring a goal ✔️
Keeping hold of a lead without crumbling ✔️
Winning a match without key players ✔️

These are things we haven't seen from an Everton team in a long time. So, while it's not a time to say we are the finished article, Imo it's a time to say 'Yes, we are progressing and the team is obviously better than it was." That's progress!!

David West
108 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:05:19
Tony @107.

I thought it was Gordon who deserved the bollocking. Just stopped chasing his man and then bollocked Patterson. He should've not given up the chase, imo.

I thought Patterson was good.

Tony Abrahams
109 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:07:44
I was disgusted by Gordon's verbal volley, Tony. Not tracking back and then trying to pass the blame onto a teammate in front of 40.000 people, will never be good for team spirit, especially when you're not working hard enough yourself.

Anthony is playing in little snatches and although he runs back and puts in the odd tackle occasionally, he's not working hard enough off the ball, to try and get on the ball, and I personally think he made a little bit of a fool of himself on this occasion, because it didn't look good, imo.

Tony Hill
110 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:08:06
I agree, David @109. I've just seen a clip of that last chance West Ham had which I thought was a certain goal only for their man to run it too wide.

In fact, Patterson gets a vital nick on the ball as their man is getting ready to shoot. A brilliant and vital piece of defending.

Tony Hill
111 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:18:41
Yes, Tony @110, he isn't functioning well at the moment.

Understandable to some extent but he needs to sort himself out.

Tony Abrahams
112 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:22:39
Going back to something Barry said earlier, because I also thought that Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, never really complimented each other, but I have got a feeling that Dominic, could enjoy playing with Maupay?

It might be that we end up going back to three at the back if this happens, but something makes me think that they could be a good pairing and a real handful for a lot of defenders?

Barry Williams
113 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:29:21
Tony Abrahams - 114

And it also means that we now have a versatile squad - not stuck on one formation, come rain or shine!

Kieran Kinsella
114 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:40:48

Calvert-Lewin and Maupay could be a throwback to the old Little and Large pairings like Cottee and Sharp… or Quinn and Phillips at Sunderland

Tony Everan
115 Posted 18/09/2022 at 20:51:00
Tony, I have been thinking that too, Maupay will be good feeding off knockdowns, and second balls from Calvert-Lewin's aerial challenges. He is a player who can get in amongst it and win those balls in good positions ready to keep possession, build an attack.

It remains to be seen who will make way when Calvert-Lewin returns, but Maupay could be retained and then a fight between Gordon and Gray for the third forward position.

Michael Connelly
116 Posted 18/09/2022 at 21:04:55
Couple of thoughts from today.

Thought Maupay's general hold-up play was excellent, as well as his great finish.

Shame we didn't pick Cornet up from Burnley as he's one dangerous player. Would have him in the side over Gordon, no question.

Great to have two hardy centre-backs who don't get injured and don't give away cheap goals. Hopefully we see very little of Keane and Godfrey this season, just like by default we will see very little of Mina.

Bernie Quinn
117 Posted 18/09/2022 at 21:38:45
I see the result, and look at the team we have now put together – and all I can do is smile and say "In Frank I Trust".

By the way, has that numpty, Kenwright finally left us? Things have gone pretty quiet in that direction. Perhaps he is getting worried about his possible knighthood!

Tony Hill
118 Posted 18/09/2022 at 21:48:01
We have the second best defence in the League after Brighton who have played a game fewer. That's telling.

I thought Begovic's save towards the end was a good one and the man never makes me feel uneasy. A fine deputy and he has 3-4 years left in him.

Tony Hill
119 Posted 18/09/2022 at 21:50:39
Shared with Manchester City and Liverpool, to be accurate. Still very pleasing.
Sam Hoare
120 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:19:48
I was very encouraged. We were never going to be a team that was scoring for fun this year whilst romping our way to the top 7. It was about laying foundations, becoming hard to beat and regaining a team identity.

We have had a good start towards those goals and if we can stay this way and get to January around midtable then perhaps we can add a few more goals and a bit more precision in the final third.

But 3 points today and unbeaten in 6 will do for me. Iwobi is really making all his previous detractors eat humble pie (can't help but think of Colin GlasSar's constant slagging him off- sorry Colin!), apparently he's being offered a new contract and richly deserved.

Robert Tressell
121 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:23:58
One thing I should have mentioned earlier is the sheer quality of the goal. A very crisp accurate pass from Iwobi. Instant control, turn and finish from Maupay.

Both players had to be brave to pull that off. They both had easier, safer options.

Barry Jones
123 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:32:08
I have been critical of Gray in recent weeks as he has conceded possession too often. Today, however, he was fabulous. This is the Gray we saw in the early part of last season.

Iwobi was immense once again and has been so in every game so far this season. He always seems to do the right thing and makes it look easy.

Tarkowski and Coady have made the biggest difference, and now with Gana ahead of them, we look totally solid.

I have a lot of faith in "thin" Frank and his team. If we can become a bit more clinical in the final third, we will be competing in the top half of the table in no time.

Great goal by Maupay by the way, and great assist from Iwobi.

David West
124 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:34:29
Sam @134. I'm all for giving Iwobi all the praise he deserves for the performances he's been putting in. Equally, he deserved the criticism for the poor performances he put in under several previous managers.

I feel he always wanted to play in the middle and now Frank's give him that opportunity, he's grasping it and now there is more competition for them 3 midfield spots all the midfield need to be performing or there's someone chomping to take their place – healthy for the sqaud.

Barry Jones
125 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:36:09
I have seen a few strange comments on some of the threads such as drop Iwobi for Doucoure and drop Coady for Mina. Not sure what these posters have been watching or drinking but those would be backward steps.
Brian Wilkinson
126 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:52:08
Everything has already been said about the game, so I would like to throw one player into the mix who has barely got a mention on here, Begovic.

He did not have a lot to do but certainly controlled his area and made some good catches.

Pickford has been outstanding this season, made some brilliant stops, but the big lads West Ham threw up for set pieces, found it tough going trying to outjump Begovic, apart from a stray throw out, I thought Begovic did a great job.

Be interesting when Pickford is fit.

Two games running now Onana has had the shit kicked out of him.

David West
127 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:53:12
Tony 110

I agree about Gordon not tracking back. Frank should sit him down, show him that video, tell him that's just not acceptable. I hope he watches it and apologises to Patterson.

Maybe Patterson could've come and pressed but to just let him go and give him all that time was criminal. Hope he's not getting too big for his boots.

I don't think he's playing I'm "snatches". I think he's still a young lad who's been asked to do an unfamiliar job up to now this season. Back to his familiar position today but I thought he was dragged too central and left Mykolenko a bit isolated at times.

I've said on previous threads, I think he should be used as a sub in some matches, tires quickly, has less impact later in the match. Love the lad but how a young lad like him tires so quick is worrying, was it just tiredness why he didn't track his man?

Jeff Armstrong
128 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:55:26
Ah Tony, #143, I see where you’re sitting.
Brian Wilkinson
129 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:57:48
In regards to Gordon, Coady gave him a right ear bashing about not tracking back and almost allowing West Ham to score.

Something is not right with a Gordon, whether carrying a knock or something, but he looked gassed after half an hour.

For once we have some players with nasty streaks in them, no more Mr Nice Guys.

Bobby Mallon
130 Posted 18/09/2022 at 22:58:20
Ian Edwards 44.

You have said those comments about every manager we have had.

Barry Jones
131 Posted 18/09/2022 at 23:09:01
Tony Abraham, I agree with your assessment of the spat between Gordon and Patterson. Gordon was totally at fault and what he did was unacceptable. I hope Frank hauls him over the coals for that.
Dave Abrahams
132 Posted 18/09/2022 at 23:46:01
Very happy with the win, I thought we just about deserved it, Iwobi was involved in most of our attacking moves so I was disappointed when he was put on the wing with Doucoure taking his midfield position.

A very good goal by Maupay. Looking at it on the big screen, he knew what he was aiming for and put it away brilliantly. Patterson is a young player with an old head on his shoulder, he'll be bollocking Gordon shortly especially if he doesn't do what he is supposed to do, help the full back out, he failed on a few occasions and like in the derby game he looked knackered at times, didn't have the best of games. The new lad Onana didn't impress either going missing for large parts of the game and loitering instead of getting involved more.

But the win was what was necessary today and we achieved that which might release a lot of tension now we have our first win and with Dominic, hopefully coming back we might start rippling the net a bit more often,

Paul Birmingham
133 Posted 18/09/2022 at 23:47:38
Same old fairy tales on MotD, they must have been to a different game.

Made West Ham to be driving the bulk of the match, but little surprise there.

Still, from Everton, great signs, plenty of work to do, but spine, and guts with skill.

Hopefully a clean health check, on returns from International duties, and Everton can beat Southampton on 10 October 2022.

Soren Moyer
134 Posted 18/09/2022 at 23:50:18
Superb win considering a not-so-good performance.

Gone the days of a shaky backline, as long as we keep Keane and Holgate away from the first team.

And Iwobi, what a player he's turned into (am I dreaming?). Spraying passes left and right like Pirlo when he was at the peak of his game!

Hopefully we can bring in a creative, goal scoring midfielder and another striker in the next window.

Jamie Crowley
137 Posted 18/09/2022 at 00:14:05
Had a whacky viewing experience today.

Overslept and missed kickoff. The Mrs put the game on at the beginning for me so I wouldn't "know" anything that happened about 10 am. Stopped /paused at 30 minutes and headed out to Mass. Came home, hit play, and watched the rest.

I thought we played great. Controlled the game completely, and our midfield looks very good in my opinion.

I said to my son just after halftime of our "replay" that we had a real team now.

We are so much better - in talent, competence, and viewability, then at any time under Rafa or the latter part of last season! It's like night and day.

I'm very bullish on this team and Everton's future under Frank. Great three points.

Oh, and to all those who said Gueye shouldn't come back - as you say across the pond give your head a wobble. He covered every single blade of grass. He doesn't look as if he's lost a single step. He is immense and a massive asset to Everton. It's wonderful to see him back "home" and playing effectively and as if he never left.

Jeff Armstrong
138 Posted 19/09/2022 at 00:23:25
Jamie#163, to me, Gueye has just been on a £29 million loan to PSG for 3 seasons.

He has fitted in superbly in his 2 games back.

Fantastic player.

Lester Yip
141 Posted 19/09/2022 at 01:09:40
I can recall Gordon helped out numerous of time in defending and making a good tackle. It might not be his day upfront. But his effort and commitment is definitely there.
Steve Brown
142 Posted 19/09/2022 at 01:25:14
Dave A @ 158, good point on Onana. He was complacent today and let the game pass him by. Although I liked one tweet I read that said ‘Onana turned Rice into risotto', I didn't agree with it.

That being said, we lost our shape when Doucoure came on. As usual, he was like a chipmunk chasing a shiny bit of paper and his passing was dreadful.

Gana was immense, he showed for the ball out of defence or as a counter to the press all game. You can get exposed when you play that role, as happened once when they hit the post, but he made a massive difference.

Kieran Kinsella
143 Posted 19/09/2022 at 02:04:52

I think Onana is a bit of a rough diamond like the young Fellaini. I hope most fans are level headed like you and don't a) over hype him then knock him down or b) slag him off if he has some poor games.

I think long term he can be a good player for us but the next 12 to 18 months might be a bumpy ride given his age and lack of experience.

As for Gueye? I think he's better than when he left. He was always a great destroyer but now he seems a bit more composed on the ball. And while he's no spring chicken there's no sign of him slowing down any time soon.

I do wonder if Frank May work Garner in instead of one of the aforementioned just to add a bit more craft over the season. But I think for now he's wisely taking things cautiously, sorting defense first.

Jamie Crowley
144 Posted 19/09/2022 at 03:41:21
Onana is great. One thing I love about him, among many, is when he passes the ball he puts mustard on it. Never a lazy ball from the kid.

He did his job today. He didn't shine above the rest, but he surely didn't play poorly.

Kieran Kinsella
145 Posted 19/09/2022 at 03:44:53

The thing I love about him based on interviews is that from day one he “gets Everton” plus he's good.

Jamie Crowley
146 Posted 19/09/2022 at 03:49:20
Kieran - YUP! That, too!

Works for me. 😜

Jay Harris
147 Posted 19/09/2022 at 03:58:04
I thought Onana was just adjusting to a different midfield role now that Gana is playing the defensive midfield role and, apart from Finch Farm, that midfield has had very little time together.

I was very impressed about how much more solid we look now and 2 clean sheets on the bounce is not to be sniffed at.

I thought Demarai Gray had a blinder closely followed by Iwobi, Garner and our 2 CBs.

Complaint:– how the hell did we get 3 yellow cards and they got one.

Onwards and upwards.

Steve Brown
148 Posted 19/09/2022 at 05:42:39
Yes, I agree Kieran.

Onana was awesome in the derby and a bit off it today.

We as fans should take a balanced view and judge players in the round. I can never get criticism of a player's performance based on pre-conceived opinions – usually a single error leads to a lot of abuse.

If a player I am not keen on plays well, I try to comment on them in particular as I like being proved wrong if the team benefits.

Onana is a young and a work in progress, so fans (including me) need to give him time and patience. He will be a top player for us in the future.

Christine Foster
149 Posted 19/09/2022 at 06:21:33
A good win, given where we were last season, it's a vast improvement in style of play. Defensively solid, a good midfield, how wrong was I to think we should not have brought Gana back? He was intercepting everything.

Up front, end product still missing from Gray and Gordon. The latter wasn't there today, actually neither was he at the last game!

Someone please take over corner and free kick duty from Gray, very weak! For the second game running Gordon's head was elsewhere, the lad is off his game.

Maupay… lovely goal.. Touch, turn, strike!

Begovic almost let Antonio sneak up behind him and take the ball, Coady almost deflected one into his net... but generally we defended well.

Final aside, there are a number of individuals on TW that continually post with comments that are either derogatory or negative. Doesn't seem to matter if we win, lose or draw. I'm not a happy clapper either but it gets tiresome to hear the continuous poor opinions on players, the match or the club – no matter if we win or lose.

It's a win. Period.

Danny O’Neill
150 Posted 19/09/2022 at 06:48:52
I told you the points and wins were coming. The performances have been there.

First disappointment, apologies I didn't make it to the Bramley Moore. Those travelling to Southampton, let me know and we can meet up then.

We continue to look way more solid and playing as a team. I don't expect any teams to roll us over easily this season. I don't expect to stand in disbelief at White Hart Lane as we get thumped 5 - 0. There, I've said it, you can quote me!

Once again, our 2 young full backs impressed. As he grew into the game, I thought Patterson was a contender for Everton man-of-the-match. He might not be the best going forward, but for those who like a traditional full back, Mykolenko is in danger of becoming the Ukranian Tony Hibbert!

Our centre backs were resolute. Watching closely, it struck me that Tarkowski is not the best of footballers, but he can defend. Coady had a bit of a shaky day but was there when we needed him. Despite a seemingly never ending barrage of corners and playing against what I thought looked like the land of the giants, I never felt threatened. Although not for the first time in the last 12 months, the Goodison woodwork gave me a moment where I stopped breathing for a period.

A mention to the keeper. Many might not agree with me, but has he given the manager a dilemma? Pickford has been in great form and is an outstanding shot stopper. But Begovic brings reassurance and commands his box better. Also, his positioning is really good. He often didn't need to make the save because he was in the right position. But he did save when he had to and it was a good one.

Onana is going to be some player, but be patient with him and Gray was a constant threat. Let's hope he sustains this good start to the season and it's not a repeat of last when he faded. Another contender for our man of the match. A mention for Iwobi. Like the team, he grew into the game and was key in what I thought was really good build up play for the goal.

Gordon had an off day. In some ways, I don't mind players having a go at each other. We haven't had enough of that recently. But I thought at the time, Gordon had lost his man, been lazy in tracking and Patterson was right to have a go. I hope Anthony isn't resting on his laurels after his progress this past year or so. Maybe he's just tired? He's young and has played a lot of football in fairness.

Mention to Maupay. Aside from a great finish, he buzzed around and kept the West Ham defenders occupied.

I thought West Ham started brighter but we settled into the game. In reflection, I thought an even game between 2 even teams, which says a lot. West Ham are a good team. Neither of us will be in the position we were in before kick off yesterday come May in my opinion.

I mentioned my contenders for man of the match (Gray & Patterson), but it had to go to Gueye for me. Outstanding. He still does what he did, but now has added a touch of class to his game. Quality.

The win was coming. The wins are coming.

Dave Cashen
151 Posted 19/09/2022 at 08:08:33
Tony. Spot on, mate.

I'm a big admirer of young Gordon, but he has a lot to learn. The fact that he was still able to block the cross after falling asleep proved it was his task in the first place.

I have it on very good authority that Patterson is no shrinking violet though. That said. I sort of liked that they went at each other. In recent years, an incident like that in the Everton defence would have passed with shrugged shoulders all round. No harm in offering your team mates the odd gentle reminder.

George @33,

"Shocking"?, I accept it wasn't edge-of-the-seat stuff, but yesterday's performance was a huge step in the right direction. I think Frank is doing this the George Graham way. First, he wants his back line working, then his midfield. The good stuff will come.

Terry Farrell
152 Posted 19/09/2022 at 08:15:19
David, it’s opinions but I thought Onana played well. He made some very good tackles and had to move forwards and out of position as the only target man to challenge for kicks from Begovic.

When he won his header, he directed them to a blue shirt. He was also comfortable on the ball.

I agree with Kieran, he is a rough diamond and similar style to Fellaini who was one of my favourites. Super Frank is taking us forward.

Rich Evans
153 Posted 19/09/2022 at 08:43:15
Very impressed today. Lampard, the coaching staff and the DoF have made huge progress in such a short time. This team is a huge improvement over the dross of previous seasons.

To be honest, like many have said on here, I had become deeply disillusioned with everything Everton by the end of last season, and it had been coming a long time. However, for the first time in years, the club has made clever, solid and robust signings who massively improve the character and ability of the team.

Also, Frank and his staff have clearly improved several players beyond belief; Iwobi was genuinely my personal “worst ever Everton player”, but look at the lad now!

Likewise, I feel the younger lads like Patterson, Mykolenko and Gray are being properly coached, they seem to be improving game on game. For the first time in ages, I am looking forward to each game.

Sure, there is room for improvement, both as a unit and individually, but the progress in such a short time is nothing short of miraculous. Good things are happening here and those responsible should be recognised. Can't wait until we play again.

Mike Gwyer
154 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:32:04
Danny # 181

Agree with your comments, which always seem spot on, except for Begovic.

For me, it's Pickford all day long, I've taken several looks at that shot from Benrahma and, for me, Begovic is defo out of position. If he was more central, it would have been a routine save. Additionally, I feel that Pickford would have had that ball tipped over the bar or round the post.

Talking of which, can we take the Goodison posts to Southampton? They are all putting in a solid shift and I think the keepers are starting to rely on them.

Rob Dolby
155 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:32:48
A good win yesterday over a West Ham team that will surge up the table once their midweek European games end.

We are much more solid with those 3 midfielders. The formation means that we need end product from the wide players. I thought Gordon had his quietest game for about 6 months yesterday. The spat with Patterson was pure frustration on his part.

Gray had an okay game, he plays that ball across the face of the goal a lot of times without anyone getting a final touch on them.

Onana kept Rice quiet without creating too much himself.

We now have a lot more options with formations across the back and midfield. We need Calvert-Lewin back and also need to be on the lookout for more goals. We may have missed out on Kudus but even being seriously interested in players like him and Onana are massive signs of intent.

Tony Abrahams
156 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:33:28
David W, I'd argue that's why I think Anthony Gordon is playing in snatches, mate, because he seems to be blowing for tugs quite often, and this lack of physicality is definitely not helping his game right now.

I like Anthony, but I didn't like his attitude towards his teammate yesterday, and I haven't enjoyed what I consider to be a lack of desire to take up better positions, by working harder, in the last two games.

Gordon has had a lot on his plate lately and, if it's true he wanted to leave, he might still be having a few problems in his head, which might just be contributing to his energy levels at the moment.

Kevin Molloy
157 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:40:32
I think it's worth reflecting on the goal. West Ham looked strong yesterday, certainly defensively. But no defence is stopping that.

Magnificent improvisation, obviously we will never see that goal again but credit to the striker for having the quick thinking to take advantage of a bouncing ball on the edge of the area. If it had fallen to any other player, it would not have been a goal.

Stu Darlington
158 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:40:39
Reflecting on yesterday's game (as you do!), I can't help wondering what's gone wrong with Gordon? I have mentioned in other posts that I thought he wasn't up to par in the derby, and yesterday he seemed even worse to me.

His body language seems all wrong, walking round with a gob on him as if he has the cares of the world on his shoulders. Not seeming to be enjoying his game at all.

Reminds me of the way Rashford was playing at Man Utd last season and his spat with Patterson seemed totally out of character.

I'm sure the manager and his team have clocked it, but they really need to sort him ASAP or he'll find himself warming the bench, and we really need his talent on the pitch.

Christine Foster
159 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:43:12
Tony, might be that Gordon revelled and enjoyed his position up front rather than on the wing. Now back to using his engine attacking and defending is not what he really sees as his best position in the current line up; he will have to get his head back around it?
Kevin Molloy
160 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:49:00
I think it's understandable Gordon's concentration has wandered. He's still on two bob a week at Everton, I think 2 weeks ago Chelsea were waving a £150,000-a-week contract for 6 years under his nose. His agent will have told him that the only reason that didn't happen was cos Lampard wouldn't let him go.

He'll be thinking 'After all the effort I put in for you last season, now you've completely messed me up.' He'll get over it, there will be other offers. But you can understand him having lost a bit of oomph for a couple of games. If you're even slightly less than full pelt in the modern game, it shows immediately.

Ben King
161 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:51:12
Stu #192,

I thought Gordon was excellent against Liverpool. His play set up at least 2 of our strong counter-attacks.

I accept he wasn't great against West Ham but he's young and youngsters struggle with consistency generally.

However, it's one game. Let's not say there's a trend when there isn't.

Philip Bunting
162 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:57:23
I think he thinks he is better than what he is.

Personally, I'd bite your hand off if we got a good offer. I did not like that petulant display of not closing the player down then screaming at Patterson.

I would drop him for the next match and play Garner there instead. It might shake him up a bit.

Eddie Dunn
163 Posted 19/09/2022 at 09:58:20
Lampard said in his presser that we were talking to Gordon's people about a new contract. The lad was joking with the ref as they came out at halftime (didn't stop him getting booked though). He seemed more relaxed. Perhaps he thinks he is Billy Big Bollox now the Chavs were in for him.

Or it could be that he is just a young player and consistency is something he will build up in time. He was wrong to have a go at Patterson. But at least they are all showing hunger and fight.

Si Cooper
164 Posted 19/09/2022 at 10:24:16
A difficult game to enjoy given the end-to-end nature and some lapses in concentration.

I agree with the Jimmy Floyd-Hasselbaink assessment that we just about deserved it through performing that little bit better at the really crucial moments.

Tony Abrahams
165 Posted 19/09/2022 at 10:24:45
Good point, Christine, a very good point actually, because Gordon did seem to be doing better in that role. My gripe is that I don't think he has been working hard enough to find himself in better positions, to demand the ball, when Everton have been in good possession.

Maybe it's because we can be a tough crowd to please, and expect too much at times.

Raymond Fox
166 Posted 19/09/2022 at 10:31:58
One thing we can say now is we are much more solid in midfield and defence.

Iwobi was MotM again and I thought Gray had his usual 8/10 game, he's always dangerous.

I'm pleased Maupay got his goal, it will make him more of a threat in matches to come. I think we have good reasons to be optimistic.

Stu Darlington
167 Posted 19/09/2022 at 10:40:35
Hope you're right, Ben, we certainly need a player with his talent firing on all cylinders. Just got the feeling all was not right with the lad.

Maybe I'm a bit fey from my Irish ancestors.

Dave Abrahams
168 Posted 19/09/2022 at 10:49:00
Regarding Onana, I too think he will be a fine player for Everton but yesterday he let the game go by.

He had done very little in the first 20 minutes or so, then I started looking for him, and he was ambling about, loitering without intent for most of the time. He got a couple of tackles in but seemed to me to slow Everton's game down, passing the ball backwards when he had space in front of him.

Just one game, I realise, but when he got injured near the end, it was time to replace him, if not before. He was doing next to nothing, except possibly making his injury worse. No way did I think he had a good game yesterday.

Dave Williams
169 Posted 19/09/2022 at 11:26:03
A much-needed win by a fast-improving team. We will only get better with time and Frank has genuine options, with Garner in particular pushing to start.

Gray is playing very well and reminds me of Jimmy Husband in the way he drifts into the centre from the wing, ghosting past the opposition.

The young lads will be inconsistent and Gordon has had a lot to cope with recently. It may be that he is benched for a game or two.

I really like Onana and Gueye is a great signing to guide the youngsters. Patterson and Iwobi are the stars of the show for me with Alex looking a top-class midfielder now – those who slagged him off constantly must be a bit embarrassed now.

Graham Mockford
170 Posted 19/09/2022 at 11:31:20
Idrissa Gueye is going to be a good signing. Excellent yesterday doing all the unspectacular stuff. Seems as fit as he was when he left us.

He allows others to play around him. In fact, the only time Gomes looked like a Premier League player was when Gueye played alongside him.

David West
171 Posted 19/09/2022 at 11:34:49
Tony A.

I think Gordon's started the season well, couple of goals. He's definitely no striker, so I don't think he'd like to stay up front. Yes he's has alot to cope with, but if he's going to be a top level player, that comes with the territory.

I don't believe he ever really wanted the Chelsea move at this stage. I've never questioned his effort or commitment, it's his fitness and stamina that's the issue.

Or is he being over-played? As someone said, at least him and Patterson showed they care by arguing about it.
Just thought he looked like he thought he was the big "I am" by blaming Patterson.

Tony Abrahams
172 Posted 19/09/2022 at 11:36:54
That's exactly why he's getting no change out of me regarding yesterday's incident, David.
Robert Tressell
173 Posted 19/09/2022 at 11:42:48
We're very close now to having a really good side. This season will be patchy because we are integrating so many new players – and even Patterson, Mykolenko, Gray and Gordon are all pretty new too.

What is really encouraging is team shape, work rate, team spirit, clean sheets and some spells of good football.

People will switch off, make poor decisions etc etc but it is coming together. No need to get on people's cases.

Just imagine how good we could be next season if we keep a settled team playing together this season, give some talented young players space to develop together + add one or two forwards of real quality to the squad.

Barry Williams
174 Posted 19/09/2022 at 12:08:16
Onana and Gordon:

Well, we have options now to switch things around in midfield in terms of giving players a rest, introducing the to the league gradually, and tactically. I reckon in the next few weeks we will see Onana switched around with Garner, Doucoure and Davies, both in the starting line-up and within the match.

Takes the pressure off, allows for competition, recovery and in-game tweaks (the non-injury type of tweaks).

As for Gordon – he looks knackered, whatever the reasons, mental or physical. We also have McNeil who he can be switched around with, plus other alternatives too.

How long has it been since these things were an option?

Will Mabon
175 Posted 19/09/2022 at 15:03:45
Apparently, discussions are to start for a new Iwobi contract, reflecting his performances. Existing is 'til 2024.
Brian Wilkinson
176 Posted 19/09/2022 at 15:18:11
Mike @188, I agree with Danny and mentioned it on an earlier post.

Pickford has been outstanding and no-one would dispute him being the number one, but Begovic last Premier League games, has brought two clean sheets and for me it is a dilemma: you have Pickford who is a brilliant shot stopper, then you have Begovic who controls his penalty area and catches the ball well from set-pieces.

You mentioned the shot that hit the post; have a good look at it again. I was right behind the shot in the Park End stand and it looked like it was going well wide, then the bend on the ball brought it right back in and onto the post. For me, that was his only misjudged shot all game.

Much as I like Pickford, the thought of Pickford defending 14 corners would have had my heart racing; however the defence dealt with a lot of the corners.

So yes, no doubting Pickford is Number 1, but I think we have a cracking Number 2 in Begovic. The defence for one looks much calmer with Begovic in, so I would agree, it is a dilemma, if Begovic keeps his form up.

Danny O’Neill
177 Posted 19/09/2022 at 15:44:52
Dave Abrahams, certainly in the first 30 minutes or so, I thought Onana was getting caught too far forward, leaving spaces for the West Ham midfield. I'm not sure if that was tactical.

Si @199, I like end to end. Football should be about entertainment even if it frightens the life out of me at times!!

Christine, really good point. I've said a few times that I wonder if Gordon is going to develop into a Number 10 rather than being used out wide.

Kevin Molloy @191, his touch wasn't the best but he took the chance instinctively early. Great finish too.

Mike Gwyer, good shout on those Goodison posts. They have been contenders for Man of the Match on at least 3 occasions in the past 6 months!!

Brian Wilkinson
178 Posted 19/09/2022 at 17:05:58
Someone mentioned if they had a tardis, they would go back in time to 1892 and pay Houlding the rent.

If I had one, I would go back to 1986 and get Lineker's boots that the kitman left on the coach at Oxford.

Dale Self
179 Posted 19/09/2022 at 17:18:04
Alright some good numbers on this one, a fine victory indeed. I thought Frank set it up well and although it could be that we found Hammers a bit flat from their Th-Su routine I'm thinking Frank knew they would not press and kept the space between the lines at our advantage. That early period of playing it out of the back was perilous and a couple of times Patterson wandered too far without support but overall Frank somewhat put his signature on a style of play in this game.

The two options in the midfield to advance the ball was effective and we worked their defense with some intent. Gray's work effort will eventually start to create opportunities while some of his work went without someone on the end yesterday. The game management was especially a relief. We had some idea of how to go forward without too much risk and while we did give up some uh oh moments late the emergency response team took out the danger and did so without giving up the unnerving foul around the box.

We got enough stuff in this squad for Frank to frustrate the opposition into either overstretching their offence or outright pressing in moments where the team is ascendant. Just keep this thing functional for some self-confident aspiring striker to mumble to himself, "I could bang a few in with those lads, hmm where's my phone".

Danny O’Neill
180 Posted 19/09/2022 at 18:35:19
That 1986 run in still hurts me, Brian @225.

And 10 May 1986 still haunts me.

Kevin Molloy
181 Posted 19/09/2022 at 18:39:21
Danny, I still remember Jimmy Greaves saying 'they deserve something, Everton. They don't deserve me wearing this hat'.

A couple of hours later, we were back on the train, sharing the carriage with raucous Liverpool fans toasting their double. We had to put up with Wool comments like 'When Bruce made that save from Sharp, I said 'he'll not be beat again today'.

Buckets and buckets of tosh.

Andy Meighan
182 Posted 19/09/2022 at 21:05:03
Danny 181. You mention West Ham are good side and I agree with you.

But listening to their fans on TV today outside Goodison after the game, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, shit, absolutely shit: One poor side, Moyes has lost the dressing room, etc etc.

One had the audacity to say Everton aren't a good side, what he also failed to say was that at least they're a work in progress.

The lad interviewing them did praise us a lot though. Saying you can see what Lampard is trying to implement here.

I thought it was an even game myself and said to the lads at half-time, "One goal settles this" – and so it did. Funny how we all watch the same game but see different things.

Christine Foster
183 Posted 19/09/2022 at 21:36:22
Tony 200# and Danny,

I think Gordon doesn't like the effort required to motor at pace up and down the pitch to defend and attack at pace. It's hard work and little thanks or limelight. He is young but slight in stature, it's toll on the body means he is able to do it a few times but not for a full game.

Frankly, it's the James issue again, great skill but don't ask of him what his body can't do. We have to be careful it doesn't take his enjoyment out of his game and ruin him. He has to develop into something other than a fast winger, because, as shown before at the club, we can't afford luxury players. The lure of Chelsea where he would be allowed to develop rather than word to death must have been massive.

Si Cooper
184 Posted 19/09/2022 at 22:11:36
Danny (221),

Yes should probably have said difficult to fully enjoy! The opponents on the attack seemed much more insignificant in the mid-eighties when we just ‘knew' we would end up winning.

My tuppence on Onana is that he is being asked to play a ‘reserved' role with Iwobi and Gana. It was notable how he was being used as a target man for set-pieces. Maybe the intent was for him to be a bit ‘lower profile' in other aspects of the game so he would get overlooked at those times?

Steve Daniells
185 Posted 19/09/2022 at 22:13:45
The derby was a much better game, but West Ham are a solid team. They have good players – Rice, Bowen, and Antonio in particular – and have been on a bad run. In previous years, we would have generously given them a way to kick-start their season. Not this time, and that's testament to how this team has changed.

Robbie Mustoe said on NBC that Coady and Tarkowski have changed the club. They've been huge, but I think that's doing the others a disservice, Lampard and Thelwell in particular. We had a joined-up recruitment plan. We brought in real leaders with big personalities.

I also think that the lack of a striker at the start of the season could end up being a blessing in disguise because it meant we had to work on being solid and hard to beat. It also gave Gordon and Gray some goals and now defenders look at our front three and know there are goals across that front line. Maybe not a ton, but some and hopefully enough to get us up the table.

Kieran Byrne
188 Posted 19/09/2022 at 22:45:42
As other posters have said that, once we gel, there's going to be a good team there. Everton seem to be better sans the big superstars and when all 11 are working as a unit.

Does anyone notice a difference in the players? To me, and I know there's a lot of new faces, but the whole team look fitter, we are way faster, quicker but I meant that the players don't seem as bulky or, what's the word, over-muscled, especially in the upper region, or am I seeing things?

In the training videos on the official site, they're doing lots of sprint work and all the drills seem to be at a really high pace. Maybe the weight-room training has changed, so hopefully if there is a new way of thinking, it'll result in less muscle strains, thigh and calf injuries etc.

Lester Yip
190 Posted 20/09/2022 at 01:24:41
With Gana back as a 6, Iwobi being the creative spark, Onana will be the box-to-box he wants to. He's been operating more like a 6 before Gana was back. So there must be some transitioning period. Also, perhaps the manager told him the priority is to protect the space behind first?

Anyway, I like the clean-sheet approach personally. If we don't let in any goal, we will have a point at least. Then look forward for a 3 if chances are taken well. With this team, we can play counter-attack well.

Tony Abrahams
193 Posted 20/09/2022 at 08:18:43
That was a good post until you got to the last sentence IMO, Christine @209.

I know you didn't like Benitez, but I'm not even sure Gordon would have come through at Everton if it wasn't for our former manager, who stated he couldn't last a full game, and got Anthony working so much harder.

Hard work is the key to real success, so if a kid would sooner quadruple his money for less work, I wouldn't blame him, but I would also say that he's never going to be as good as he could have been. If he doesn't want to work hard, his talent will only take him so far.

Eddie Dunn
194 Posted 20/09/2022 at 08:32:33

Chelsea is not the place where they nurture young talent. Look at Salah and Lukaku, look at Hudson-Odoi – off to Leverkusen. Rhys James and Mount are the exceptions.

I would imagine Gordon would just get a few minutes here and there. Surely better for him to put in the hard graft and learn his trade on the park every game.

Martin Mason
195 Posted 20/09/2022 at 09:42:27
Post derby and WHU game everything is great and rightly so but there are going to be reverses and that is where we come in. Don't sound like the sour WHU fans, accept that there will be days when we play badly and that we may lose against good sides and that the important thing is not the bad game but how we learn and recover from it.
Christine Foster
196 Posted 20/09/2022 at 09:55:11
Tony 218# frankly your right but that's probably not how it was pitched to him, more along the lines of, "think of all the great players you will be with, no longer having to do two people jobs rnning your wotsits off" etc etc,,,
Robert Tressell
197 Posted 20/09/2022 at 10:01:51
Too right, Martin.

Although the team structure and personnel are much improved, we're still very much a work in progress.

I expect something like a 10th-place finish. Could be as high as 8th but equally could be as low as about 14th. In some respects, it doesn't matter because there's no glory in 8th.

And, whatever the case we will certainly see some bad performances this season as a team and from individuals (Gordon was poor against WHU for example).

The important thing is that we keep developing as a team – so that we're in contention for silverware and European places next season and beyond.

Brent Stephens
198 Posted 20/09/2022 at 10:04:41
Steve #209, that Antonio in particular is a dangerous player but our defence gave him hardly a look-in.
Derek Knox
199 Posted 20/09/2022 at 10:20:51
Robert, I don't think any of us realistically are expecting anything more than your projected final standings, although maybe an addition or two in the January window may swing that.

Having said that, we don't know how much we have in the kitty and how much, if any, leeway we have with FFP. Totally agree we look more stable now but still a little lightweight up front.

i Went on Sunday and was disappointed to a degree that only Maupay (the smallest in our team) was the only one 'having a real go' in front of goal. I know Gray also chipped in but straight at their keeper.

Others also had a 'chance at goal ' but chose to pass rather than shoot. Hope that gives Maupay a confidence boost as well as his teammates (not that he was lacking) but he has never been known as a prolific scorer anyway, and has averaged 1 in 4 throughout his career.

Hypothetical question: would Dominic have made a difference, even coming on as a late sub? He wasn't, without explanation, even on the bench. Hope this was to give him extra time for recovery and nothing more sinister.

Robert Tressell
201 Posted 20/09/2022 at 10:54:45
Derek, no additions in January will get us above 8th place this season. You cannot integrate so many players into the side in one go and get the consistency required for a Top 7 finish. Bear in mind also, we've only finished as high as 8th twice since Martinez's first season.

If Calvert-Lewin was fit enough to play, the win might have been more comfortable. Indeed Calvert-Lewin's fitness (or not) will, much like last season, determine where we finish this season.

Brian Murray
202 Posted 20/09/2022 at 11:03:54

Apparently if we can get clubs for Allan and Rondon, it frees up a bit of leverage to get the forward or wide man we need.

We don't want to have to rely on Gordon and Gray all season when they feel up to it or form dips. Gueye will now give us the insurance to let Onana burst past the forwards. We need him or someone in midfield to start to at least get close to double figures.

Robert Tressell
203 Posted 20/09/2022 at 11:33:14
Brian, unless the forward you have in mind is Haaland, it doesn't make any difference. Top 6 is absolutely out of the question – and it's likely that 2 or 3 of the also-rans will finish above us whoever we buy / loan in the window.

We are building for the future, not this season. Our best hope this season is that we might grind our way to a cup victory – and I hope we go all out to do that.

Derek Knox
204 Posted 20/09/2022 at 13:27:18
Brent @ 200, it must have been the Genie in the bottle that clouded my numerical recall, or was it the Gin?

Robert, you are probably correct about any possible additions, but forever being the optimist after all these years, I still hope for the best possible scenario, anything less it's back the Gin/Genie in that bottle, and we all know where that leads to! The Rubber Room.

Brian M, good point about Allan and Rondon, still with possible moves despite the Window being shut here, but Saudi and China are a possibility. Oh, and what happened with BM after the match? We had Taxis and lifts arranged for all who wanted to go, and Tony A and Neil Copeland were even offering to go back if any were left behind.

Trouble is now we are building in confidence/ability and starting to get points on the board, another dreaded International Break disrupts. Getting back to Sunday, while I accept 3 points gladly, I hate those 1 goal leads, a freak goal near the end from the opposition and there is another 2 points down the Toobs Baby. Famous quote from Telly Savalas as Kojak!

John Pendleton
205 Posted 20/09/2022 at 13:39:07
Love the green shoots of optimism.

Our last win before this was that Palace game and the talk now is of 8th not 18th.

The difference a defence and a midfield makes - who knew?

A plan, a style, a shape – a young manager growing in confidence and influence.

And Iwobi MotM contender every game.

We're much better but not great. Not much difference between 8th and 15th these days so hoping we're at least sniffing around 10th. Oh, and a cup or two!

Tony Abrahams
206 Posted 20/09/2022 at 14:00:40
The game has changed so much, Christine, that those great footballers of the past, that we all loved to watch wouldn't even make the grade nowadays imo. Athleticism is key, and the speed of the modern game, has unfortunately left the strollers behind.

I wrote this post and then scrolled down and read Brian M@202, and honestly don't see no reason why Everton couldn't make the Top 6, if the likes of Anthony Gordon and Demarai Grey became consistent performers. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Lampard reverts to 3-5-2 once DCL is fit.

Brian Harrison
207 Posted 20/09/2022 at 14:16:06
Tony 206

While you are correct in saying the game has changed so much, but profoundly disagree about the great players not adapting to the modern game. I couldnt see anybody I thought were special struggling to fit in to todays game. Yes its quicker than it used to be, but the training and how they are looked after now is a world away from players having needles put into them to deaden the pain.

Also the great players of the 60s didnt get the protection these players get now, in fact there is an argument that says most could not have stood up to the physical side back then. Do you really think that Tony Kay, Billy Bremner and Dave Mckay wouldnt frighten the life of todays midfielders if you played to the rules that existed back in their day.

Also I think in general the standard these days just don't compare to the players in the 60s and 70s. I havent seen anybody other than Ronaldo or Messi that could have lived with the great players of the past like Pele, Maradonna, Cruyff, Best, Charlton, Greaves, Garincha. I better stop as this post will go on for hours.

Derek Knox
208 Posted 20/09/2022 at 14:47:54
Brian, these comparisons are always hypothetical, as you rightly say, different training regimes, different adaptations of the Game Rules, but I genuinely believe that yesteryear's players were a lot tougher physically and probably mentally too.

I have been watching Everton for 60 years now. A Season Ticket Holder for many of them (sadly relinquished due to work). I regrettably didn't renew, and have regretted it ever since.

However, I digress. I don't remember any player during my time of watching, until recently that is, going down like they had been shot by a high-powered rifle and rolling around, as if in agony, when at worst they had sustained a broken fingernail.

Also, I don't remember players picking up movie star's wages and living the high life, with a few exceptions: Best, Marsh, Stan Bowles, Frank Worthington etc. They were always on decent money compared to most on the Terraces but it is ridiculous now.

Bill Gall
209 Posted 20/09/2022 at 14:52:35
The pleasing thing about the last game shows that we may be on the right track as a club in building for the future. The 2 new central backs who I thought were brought in as a cover for our injuries have proven that experience matters and have set an example to the younger players around them that has raised their game.

After the end of last season, we thought this season would have to be a rebuilding in formation and style and, with the knowledge that we may loose a couple of our more productive players, the management team set about to first strengthen our weakness in both the defense and midfield. This had been started but there will always be room for improvement either in a transfer market or our own young players.

Tony Abrahams
210 Posted 20/09/2022 at 14:54:18
I think every player that you have just mentioned “worked very hard”, Brian, so it's probably a good job that you never went on mat.

If you read my post again, you will see I wasn't talking about hard workers, and that I was talking about the modern game having no time for strollers.

(Sometimes it's easier talking rather than writing, especially for people like me who don't always properly explain themselves).

Robert Tressell
211 Posted 20/09/2022 at 14:58:14
Derek at 204, if we get this season right and add two very talented attacking players in summer – we could be in very good shape indeed. So I don't offer my perspective on this season just too bleak and unambitious.

I don't want us to waste money on players like Che Adams in January. We're past that point of desperation. We need just one or two genuine talents now to take us forward.

Brian Murray
212 Posted 20/09/2022 at 15:01:24
Outside of Man City and maybe Arsenal for now, we can give anyone a real game. By the time we play the rearranged Arsenal match, who knows if they revert to type?

Top 6 for us if we identify something in January to really push us on. Not beyond the realms.

Brian Wilkinson
213 Posted 20/09/2022 at 16:11:08
I was intrigued about the Connor Coady loan spell, he signed a 5 year contract with Wolves that still runs until 2025, however seems Everton included an option to buy for £12 Million, seems a very good bit of bargaining by Everton that.

If he carries on his form so far, we can snap him up for a decent price, if not we send him back, seems baring injury or loss of form, we will be signing him.

This season has been a huge change in our buying and selling players, finally on our terms instead of being ripped off, baring the Richarlison deal where we honoured the one more season then agree to let Richarlison move, also giving us that money we badly needed to stop us falling foul on last years ffp.

We have stood firm on Gordon, we also backed off when Blackburn tried to have us off with Diaz, some might think we have over paid on McNeil, although looks slow, will come good as a squad player, when we have a target man to get crosses into.

Overall we have now changed our strategy in transfers, now it is on our terms, been a great Summer window and looks like we now have a well-balanced squad, fighters and leaders in the team, early days but certainly heading in the right direction, both on and off the field.

Danny O’Neill
214 Posted 20/09/2022 at 18:32:08
I'll correct your opening sentence in that last paragraph, Brian W. It's more that we actually now have a strategy!!!

But your post is exactly right.

Now you're talking my language, Mr Murray!!

Christopher Timmins
215 Posted 20/09/2022 at 19:05:13

If we revert to 3-5-2, then the manager is trying to fix what is not broken.

We have come a long way since Norwich and, with Mina, Holgate and Calvert-Lewin almost ready for action, we have options in most sectors.

It looks like Allan might be on his way and surely Rondon and Keane will soon follow him out the door.

Brian Wilkinson
216 Posted 20/09/2022 at 19:47:27
Thank you, Danny, we do now have a strategy. :-)
Brian Wilkinson
218 Posted 20/09/2022 at 20:01:31
Brian M,

I'm not sure where else we need to strengthen apart from getting a third striker in; we seem pretty well covered everywhere else.

We've still got Garner to come in yet, so even if Allan goes, we have Doucoure and Garner and McNeil as cover… seems alright defence wise and out on both flanks.

I can see us going for the Blackburn forward for a much lower fee, due to his contract ending in the summer, allowing him to sign a pre-contract agreement in January.

Chances are both Warrington and Mills might be ready for the following season to add to the squad; bring Coady in for the agreed £12 Million and I think we are sorted pretty much everywhere.

If Maupay hits the ground running and we can get Calvert-Lewin fit, I can only think of a striker to add cover.

All-in-all, I think we are in a strong position for once, and are well balanced through the team.

Derek Knox
219 Posted 20/09/2022 at 22:01:08
Brian W, Danny and others,

For fear of sounding greedy I would like that lad at Ajax who was, if reports are to be believed, gutted not to be joining us at the end of the last window; he was even prepared to go on strike to push it through. Mohamed Kudus was his name, and he certainly knows where the goal is as an attacking winger or midfielder.

I suspect we had him earmarked to replace Anthony Gordon who thought he was going to Chelski, which obviously never came off. Who knows what the January window will reveal?

Danny O’Neill
220 Posted 20/09/2022 at 22:23:34
That's a possibility, Derek.

Now you've said it, I wonder if it has affected Gordon? I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, especially after a couple of games, so I'll stick to him being a bit off sorts having played a lot of football for a young player over the past 12 months.

What seems apparent is that we didn't have to sell him to fund the incomings we made. I know we don't know the ins and outs, but it seemed that the decision was down to the manager if we believe some of what we read?? I don't know, but as you say, maybe Kudus was lined up as a replacement.

I'm with Brian, unless it would be a replacement, I think the focus will be a forward now that we seem to be actually planning our transfer activity.

David West
221 Posted 20/09/2022 at 22:42:42
I feel its across the front line we need still to strengthen. We will have injuries and suspensions across the course of the season and harder teams than West Ham to break down.

Impact substitutes is what we lack really now. We have subs to hold a lead or close out a game. But the options if we need to get a goal are limited.

McNeil needs time. I'm not writing him off, hopefully he's just settling.

I know we have Calvert-Lewin to come back, and Maupay is doing a good job for us, maybe he will be that super sub, once Calvert-Lewin is back?

If the whole squad was fit, I suspect Frank would see the front line as the first he'd want to strengthen.

Brian Wilkinson
222 Posted 20/09/2022 at 22:51:10
If Gordon does go, I think Garner will be the one that slots into Gordon's place.

Sounds a decent player, Kudus, I'm struggling to think where we could fit him in though, hard to drop Iwobi, Gueye or Onana, and Kudus wants first-team football.

I know a few are still unsure on Onana, but he is still young and, if he gets the right coaching, could be a beast; last two games he had been kicked to death by opponents.

Then you have Doucouré as well.

I think we need another striker to strengthen our squad, may well go for Kudus but, from what I've heard from a few Man Utd mates, they rate Garner highly and are not happy he has been sold. Unless they try the buy-back clause, if Garner does not want to stay at Everton, then Kudus might be an option.

My guessing is we will bring Diaz in from Blackburn; other than that, I do not see many incoming players in January – unless Calvert-Lewin breaks down again, then I see us bringing 2 strikers in.

David Hallwood
223 Posted 20/09/2022 at 23:37:35
Sorry David (#221), even allowing for supporters being too quick to judge players (think Iwobi), when it comes to McNeil, I've never seen such a one-footed professional footballer at any level of the game.

Most footballers overcome nature by practising ball control with their weaker foot so they can at least propel the ball with it, but McNeil's total lack of control with his right foot screams pub player.

How has he managed to become a Premier League player without improving his right foot is a complete mystery.

Bill Watson
224 Posted 21/09/2022 at 00:52:21
Brian #222,

There's a 20% sell-on clause with Garner but he's 100% our player with no buy-back clause.

Brian Wilkinson
225 Posted 21/09/2022 at 01:03:13
McNeil's strength is on the wing and getting crosses in; so far, he has not been utilised in his strongest position with no big target man to aim for.

Dave Thomas was fortunate to have Bob Latchford to get on the end of his crosses, likewise with Sheedy having Sharp and Gray to cross to.

I can name another player who was only one-footed, Norman Whiteside. Kevin Ratcliffe said to Pat in the '85 Cup Final, "You should have forced him past you instead of letting him cut inside, and score with his stronger foot."

McNeil is still only 22 so plenty of time to work on his other foot, but I think McNeil will shine when he has a target man to aim for. My only concern, he looks like he is pulling a sledge behind him: not the quickest of players.

I think the perfect way to sum both him and Iwobi up is Iwobi is poor playing out wide – as soon as we moved him inside, he has been a different player; we need to do the same with McNeil, play him out wide.

Brian Wilkinson
226 Posted 21/09/2022 at 01:08:33
Hi Bill,

Man Utd insisted on putting a buy-back clause in the deal, there again, if Garner does not want to go back, and Everton do not want to sell, then there should be no problems.

Brian Wilkinson
227 Posted 21/09/2022 at 01:11:53
If the clause has been removed and just a sell-on 20%, then that's even better, but I thought they put a clause in to buy back.

Seems not. Thanks, Bill, an even better deal now without the clause to buy back.

Mike Gaynes
229 Posted 21/09/2022 at 01:31:39
Danny #220, you think Gordon is a bit off? Funny, I'm not seeing it. Two very nice goals and could have been more as he's cracked a couple of good shots a bit too close to the keeper.

And the last time I checked he was second in the Premier League in fouls, so he's certainly getting around.

Yes, he's been inefficient on the ball, both dribbling and passing, but that's the same issue he had last season.

Not that a bit of rest wouldn't be in order, but I think he's playing at the same level now that he was last May.

Jay Harris
230 Posted 21/09/2022 at 02:06:02
Mike, I also thought Gordon was a bit off his game on Sunday but thereagain so was Onana and I rate them both very highly.

It may be that they were both carrying knocks and I don't believe you can judge a player on one game especially after excelling in the previous games so they both get a pass from me.

Danny O’Neill
231 Posted 21/09/2022 at 06:08:11
I could be guilty of expecting too much of him, Mike. Unlike me with young players but I guess his improvement has set the bar.

Against West Ham, he looked tired, which is what I put what I thought was a performance below those standards.

I'm not knocking him, by the way, far from it. Like I said, I'm not going to judge him on a couple of games.

Ray Smith
232 Posted 21/09/2022 at 08:50:29
Kieran 188

Your observations about leaner players appears to be the case. Weight training does have its place, but not to excess.

I played football (centre-half in those bygone days of old) and rugby (loosehead prop mainly) to a respectable standard.
However, a good friend and teammate who was better than me in both sports, got the weightlifting bug and bulked up to such a degree that, other than weightlifting and muscles on his muscles (exaggeration on my part), he was unable to train normally due to his overdevelopment. Shame, but he couldn't see it, and got the hump when he got dropped.

My point being that Kieran's observations may well be the reason for leaner fitter players. There will always be players who struggle with minor injuries, but they imo are from previous regimes.

Bill Watson
233 Posted 21/09/2022 at 10:06:23
Hi Brian,

I've been looking up reports of Garner's transfer and many do quote a buy-back clause.

However, after the window closed it was being reported there wasn't any buy-back option.

This is from the usually reliable The Athletic.

Patrick Boyland, Sep 7

Yes - we reported sell-on but no buy-back.

Tony Everan
234 Posted 21/09/2022 at 11:15:37
Yes Bill, thankfully no buy back, but a 15% sell-on clause.

He is on a 4-year contract and we have an option to activate a further year.

Brian Wilkinson
235 Posted 21/09/2022 at 15:17:00
That's great, Bill, great bit of business not having a buy-back clause, one of our best transfer windows for a long while.

Hopefully those days of paying silly money are a thing of the past, and only selling on our terms. Looks like we are finally getting it right off the field.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
236 Posted 21/09/2022 at 15:29:49
And it may have been mentioned above, but to answer the surprise that a loan player is made captain, this is a loan player for whom we have an option to buy at the end of the season.
John McFarlane Snr
237 Posted 21/09/2022 at 16:30:18
Hi Brian, [235] I couldn't post to you on Sunday, the get-together thread had apparently been transferred to the message board thread, and subsequently removed altogether.

My best wishes go out to all who attended the get-together, and I am ready for the next one, if God spares me.

Matthew Williams
238 Posted 22/09/2022 at 20:46:41
Winning breeds confidence.
Keeping clean sheets breeds confidence.
Unbeaten runs breeds confidence.
Having a settled team breeds confidence.

All we need at the moment is more firepower to put games to bed,so pleased that Maupay scored on his home debut too...it looks like we finally have a team again,now for a away win down at Southampton!


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