Leeds United v Everton

29/08/2022 82comments  |  Jump to last
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Neil Maupay goes straight into the squad and could start given Everton's lack of striking options

Everton have little time to dwell on the events of their 1-1 draw at Brentford on Saturday before heading to Elland Road tomorrow evening to face Leeds United.

It will be the Blues’ third successive away fixture all competitions and in many respects it promises to be the most challenging given the manner in which the Yorkshire club have started the season.

Though they lost for the first time when Brighton edged them by a single goal on the south coast at the weekend, they had won two and drawn one prior to that and have looked particularly strong at home.

They beat Wolves 2-1 on the opening day and then stunned Chelsea with three unanswered goals, all the while employing Jesse Marsch’s brand of high-intensity football which is arguably what will concern Frank Lampard the most as he prepares for this one.

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Everton started the game at the Gtech Community Stadium well enough but rode their luck to an uncomfortable degree and, ultimately, couldn’t keep Brentford at bay over the 90 minutes.

Having lost his paciest remaining defender in Mason Holgate to injury, the Blues’ boss must consider whether to retain the five-man back line he has deployed so far, draft Seamus Coleman or Vitalli Mykolenko into the central-defensive unit, or switch to 4-3-3.

In the unlikely event he goes with the last option, it would require one of Tom Davies or Allan coming into the midfield alongside Alex Iwobi and Amadou Onana.

Up front, though, Lampard will at least be able to call upon new signing Neal Maupay who will be eligible to make his debut following his £12m move from Brighton on Friday.

The French forward could well go straight into the side at the expense of Dwight McNeil who performed competently enough at Brentford but is, arguably, the least potent in terms of goal threat, something the Toffees are going to need if they are to come away with anything from a difficult venue.

Kick-off: 7:45pm 8pm, 30 August, 2022
Referee: Darren England
VAR: Lee Mason
Last Time: Leeds United 2 - 2 Everton

Predicted Line-up: Pickford, Keane, Coady, Tarkowski, Patterson, Mykolenko, Onana, Iwobi, Gordon, Gray, Maupay


Reader Comments (82)

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Paul Birmingham
1 Posted 29/08/2022 at 12:09:55
Tomorrow, I'm hoping Everton can over Leeds and with no Rafina, our past scourge, away in Spain, let's hope Everton take the game to Leeds and can get that first victory of the season, even if it's an own-goal.

Brian Murray
2 Posted 29/08/2022 at 12:13:17
A boring nil-nil will do me tomorrow and the first three points at the weekend instead.
Nick Page
3 Posted 29/08/2022 at 12:30:00
Don’t underestimate Jesse March, Paul. He’s a very good manager….part of the Red Bull school. All about hard work and running.
Geoff Lambert
4 Posted 29/08/2022 at 12:35:50
3 points tomorrow please Frank but you need to make a few changes and bin the 5 at the back. Pack the midfield and push Onana up behind Maupay. COYB
Neil Copeland
5 Posted 29/08/2022 at 12:39:16
Looking forward to the Leeds game tomorrow, got a ticket yaaay. Hoping Maupay plays although more likely to come on from the bench I would think.

Leeds look a decent team and not as open as they were under Bielsa. It will be interesting to see how fare against them and how we line up in defence with Holgate out.

No reason why we can't take 3 points if we keep our shape and concentration.


Jim Bennings
6 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:27:24
Taking this game in isolation, a point wouldn't have been a bad result if we had just beaten Brentford.

However, given that we are yet to win and also taking into account our upcoming fixtures, I feel tomorrow we need to be winning.

Leeds have started quite well, at Elland Road you know they'll be rocking, but we need to learn how to deal with hostile atmospheres and play the fixture.

We have won one away game since August 2021, that's something that Lampard must change ASAP because we can't rely on the home form either with any major confidence.

It will make for an intriguing game, one where I think Frank needs to alter the formation and also the starting lineup from the Brentford match.

Jamie Crowley
7 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:32:23
My kids and I now call them "Leeds USA".

They scare me, and I don't have a lot of hope going into this game.

Tyler Adams is a brilliant footballer, and will shine in the Premier League. Ted Lasso is a great manager, should be the USA National Manager, knows what he's doing, and will be prepared. Aaronson is a spark plug / Energizer Bunny who I'd swap for Gray any day of the week.

I have no confidence going into this game. But that's probably because I overrate the Yank players. Who knows?

Jamie Crowley
8 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:35:08
By the way, anyone underrating Jesse Marsch is just exhibiting that time-honored, "He's a Yank, he can't know footy" English arrogance.

He is a spectacular manager.

Kieran Kinsella
9 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:36:25

Ain't even worried. 0-5 to us. Goals from Tarkowski, Mykolenko, Onana, Gordon and Rondon. Red card for Marsh and Rodrigo.

Jamie Crowley
10 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:40:01
Kieran -

I really hope you're right. I'm not near as confident.

If you look at our schedule (fixtures) it's pretty much hell after this game until right around Halloween!

I've tried not to be a doom-monger, but frankly we look like a blunt weapon and if things don't change I'm very confident we will 100% be in a relegation battle two years in a row.

I'm beginning to get very concerned. Our football doesn't bother me, I like Frank a lot, we just can't score enough goals.

Nick White
11 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:41:17
I can see us winning tomorrow night with a tight 1-0 to give us our first league win and clean sheet of the season. Maupay must start though! Be interesting to see with the latest defensive injury if we may go to a back 4.

Well done to those who have managed to get a ticket... (Neil)!

Kieran Kinsella
12 Posted 29/08/2022 at 15:50:09

I base my prediction on the phenomena of the team that can't score randomly scoring a bunch of goals.

I remember when GG was at Arsenal and Wrighty was the only person scoring and he got injured before they played Standard Liege so there was great consternation. Yet they won 7-1, and 10-1 on aggregate.

Likewise, the Walter Smith Everton same thing then we randomly thrashed West Ham 6-0. I think it's time for this rare, solar eclipse-like event to strike again.

Paul Kossoff
13 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:01:08
I said yesterday Chelsea had offered two players and £25 million for Gordon, Broja and Gallagher.

No mention on here as far as I can see. It's on the BBC and has been since yesterday

Danny Baily
14 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:08:30
Nick 11, a win would likely buy Lampard some time. We're 3 points off where we might expect to be right now so 3 tomorrow night would give the impression of a reasonable start to the season.
Sean Roe
15 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:09:12
I hope we get a late winner so we don't have time to think about it and start getting deeper and deeper and inviting them onto us.

Leeds 0 v Everton 1 - Iwobi, 88,

Nick White
16 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:20:48
Hi Danny, agree, he needs the breathing space, especially with the fixtures to come after that!

Leeds have had a good start to the season but I still expect them to be in the mix at the bottom of the table by the end of the season so a win will really will be a good result for us.

Paul Kossoff
17 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:42:27
Ross Barkley becomes free agent after leaving Chelsea Anyone interested? I would have him back, better than what we have currently.
Paul Kossoff
18 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:50:13
Kieran 12, Are you a closet red? Only they are that delusional to come up with scores like that?😀
Christy Ring
19 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:50:21
I can see us getting a result tomorrow night, with Holgate injured now, hope he ditches 5 at the back. Not a fan of Marsch, don't like his antics on the line, always in confrontation with opposing managers, and his fist pumping when Koulibaly was given red totally unprofessional. I also think Leeds fans are one of the most detested in the Premiership, the abuse they gave Coleman last season is unprintable.

Derek Wadeson
20 Posted 29/08/2022 at 16:52:48
It seems a little negativity has found its way onto ToffeeWeb lately for some reason. Under Carlo we would have beat Brentford 1-0 on Saturday but the complaint from a few would have been that it was awful to watch, certainly on the stream I watched the game on, Saturday’s game was not boring by any means.

Leeds United away is always tough for Everton even going back to our 60’s glory days, so while a point would be welcome all three points would help our current league position no end. My feeling is that all three results are possible although like the bookies I tend to favour (but hope not) a home win. How Everton it would be for us to win only to have ToffeeWebbers complaining that we should of taken a point and left the win for Saturday coming.

Frank Lampard has us playing a faster more watchable game in patches to date and as this seems to be on an upward curve at the moment changing coaches any time soon would be a mistake. Thankfully he seems level headed and intelligent enough to play his strongest eleven and to give youth its chance along the way. The amount of English born players in the dressing room is surely a good thing for team morale and bonding and with the sprinkling of some overseas stardust will bode well for the future.

Little steps seem to be being taken by all connected with the club to make us better both on and off the field and long may that continue. It seems that only if Moshiri sells will there be any changes at boardroom level. So unless the likes of Don Alexander, Jay Harris and Brian Murray come up with the money to buy the club outright we will be living with what we have for some time yet. I commend the club on the work to date at BMD but as the boardroom is aware the finest stadium in the Championship is not an option.

We have just less than two seasons remaining at Goodison Park and although highly unlikely we will add to our Champions haul of nine in that time. A Cup success is not beyond reason and hope springs eternal (copyright Danny O’Neill.)

The Spirit of the Blues.

Mick Roberts
21 Posted 29/08/2022 at 17:02:21
Please frank don't sit back letting them come on to us like we did against Bradford once we had took the lead it was asking for trouble then which is what we got and will get again leeds go after team's they won't expect us to go after them sit back and we lose guaranteed
Bobby Mallon
22 Posted 29/08/2022 at 17:23:33
Maupay starts tomorrow against Leeds and McNeil is benched. Frank's sub-ins are pretty poor (or timings of them) we need to score bloody goals!
Matthew Williams
23 Posted 29/08/2022 at 18:00:28
Same as last season,a 2-2 draw methinks.
John Raftery
24 Posted 29/08/2022 at 18:11:15
Matthew (22) I’d be happy with that. With Maupay available we ought to be able to sustain an attacking approach for a greater proportion of the game.
Jay Harris
25 Posted 29/08/2022 at 18:13:49

Even if I had the money (and I had more than Bill in 1999). I would not put it into a football club.

Although we all throw our opinions and desires here on ToffeeWeb none of us could run a Premier League club, let alone my beloved Everton, as top football people would.

I do feel that many of us would run it better than Moshiri or Kenwright though and that still remains a bone of contention.

I like the improved style of play that Frank has introduced but bemoan how easy we are to beat.

I just hope we get some better players and goalscorers and am yet to understand the logic of acquiring McNeil for £20M which we don't have.

Jamie Crowley
26 Posted 29/08/2022 at 18:20:29
Derek @ 20-

Frank Lampard has us playing a faster more watchable game in patches to date and as this seems to be on an upward curve at the moment changing coaches any time soon would be a mistake.

I agree with this 1000%!

John Keating
27 Posted 29/08/2022 at 18:29:17
I think we are presently 3 points light and we must get a win somehow tomorrow.
Just a pity we weren't professional enough to close out the Brentford game when realistically we should have got hammered.

If we had a decent pacy striker and could beat the Leeds high press we may have got something tomorrow.

Fingers crossed

Jay Evans
28 Posted 29/08/2022 at 19:25:11
Maupay is a slight upgrade on our current forwards but that is really not saying much. We all know we need more in the final third and until that happens we quite simply are going to struggle to score – never mind win.

They've got legs all over the pitch and I fear that will be the difference tomorrow night, particularly when it comes to us trying to play out through their press.

My cousin lives near Leeds and has messaged me today asking for a ticket. I have told him to keep an eye on this thread as sometimes they get sold here but should he be successful in his quest, I can't see him watching anything other than a Leeds win unfortunately.

I fancy 2-1 to the hosts but I hope I'm wrong.

Full support.
Onward Evertonians 💙

Oh and by the way, the Leeds manager is a bell. Just a pure simple bell.

Jack Convery
29 Posted 29/08/2022 at 19:26:48
I'm hoping we win. Hope springs eternal. COYBs.
Kunal Desai
30 Posted 29/08/2022 at 19:27:22
Similar to Brentford, a team that will press high, happily take another point considering our disastrous away record.

2-3 points from the first 5 fixtures is embarrassing given that 4 of these fixtures are against teams in and around us.

Criminal and embarrassing for the club to say judge us after the window closes, almost telling its fans we are writing off a possible 15 points.

John Kavanagh
31 Posted 29/08/2022 at 22:11:22
I was hoping for two points from the Brentford and Leeds matches. Building from the back, the first step is to be difficult to beat and we are on the path towards achieving that, notwithstanding the poor defending on Saturday.

I'm still hopeful of us getting another point tomorrow, but we will have to score at least one goal to achieve it. Maybe Maupay or even Onana can open their accounts for us tomorrow or Gordon might possibly demonstrate his shooting skills once again, preferably in the 94th minute.

Hoping for a Rondon-free evening and a point, so we can face that lot on Saturday with some confidence.

Colin Glassar
32 Posted 29/08/2022 at 22:20:56
In fairness to the players, we deserved a point against Chelsea and Aston Villa if not for Doucoure and Onana mistakes. So we should be on 4 points from 4 games. Not great but, in our present predicament, not terrible either.

I'll take a point from Leeds tbh.

Neil Copeland
33 Posted 29/08/2022 at 22:26:15
Colin, I was thinking the same. Without the mistakes and better finishing we could and perhaps even should be on at least 5 points.

Overall, I think we look better than last year but it will take time for the new players to settle and formation to come good.

Bernie Quinn
34 Posted 29/08/2022 at 23:23:51
Kieran @ 9,

I dunno Mate, I think you are over-optimistic with that score.

I am expecting a win; but more like 3-0. with Moupay, Gordon and Onana doing the honours.

Ian Riley
35 Posted 29/08/2022 at 23:44:48
A win tomorrow by 2 goals!!

Stay positive all and safe journey!!

Laurie Hartley
36 Posted 29/08/2022 at 23:58:43
If we are going to get anything from this we will have to be more clinical on the break. Having said that I think Maupay will make that at least a possibility.

Coleman, Tarkowski, Coady, Mykolenko
Allan, Iwobi, Onana,
Gordon, Maupay, Gray.

Only been to Elland Rd once in the '60s. Horrible place.

Up the Blues!

Brian Wilkinson
37 Posted 29/08/2022 at 00:04:33
4-1 to Everton, be one of those games everything goes right, deflected goals, you name it, window closes content on what we have, we make do with what we have.

Then comes the long slog of sweating on the next transfer window.

What we should do is organise a protest for the derby game, worked when we played Arsenal and also worked for Man Utd against the Red shite, whenever a demo is arranged, the teams involved seem to turn out a result.

Nothing to lose. :-)

Ed Prytherch
38 Posted 30/08/2022 at 00:48:49
Frank is sure to play 3 at the back and I hope that Mykolenko plays LCB with Vinagre at wingback. Maupay has yet to play a competitive minute this season so he will not play 90 minutes. Frank has to decide whether to start him or bring him on for the last 30 minutes. I expect the latter.

Leeds have lost their two best players from last season. We should be able to give them a good game.

Jerome Shields
39 Posted 30/08/2022 at 04:10:44
Just hope Frank addresses his tactical flaws. We need at least a draw.
Bobby Mallon
40 Posted 30/08/2022 at 05:46:24
Just play Maupay from the off. He's had a Brighton pre-season, he will be fine. We need a threat up top from the off.
Darryl Ritchie
41 Posted 30/08/2022 at 06:01:45
Man, the projected starting 11 is sure different from the 11 that started last season.

Time will tell if they’re an improvement.

Fingers, toes, eyes crossed.

Duncan McDine
42 Posted 30/08/2022 at 07:36:00
Don’t listen to Jamie - he knows nothing about football. He’s a yank! We will turn this lot over tonight.
Ciarán McGlone
43 Posted 30/08/2022 at 08:18:09
We are a disaster and completely confused at the back. Add Keane to this and it doesn't get any better.

Pity as, despite the prevailing opinion, we have a fairly decent side.

Best we can probably get is a point – in spite of Lampard's stubbornness.

David Bromwell
44 Posted 30/08/2022 at 08:31:08
We are a long way from having a settled 11 or even a formation in which are players look comfortable.

It would be nice to think we could get a win tonight, with the players in their best and most natural positions. If we can do this and start to build a little confidence results will surely improve.

Sam Hoare
45 Posted 30/08/2022 at 08:48:41
With deadline day looming I find it hard not to look at the two clubs different transfer approaches.

Leeds knew they were very likely to lose Raphinha and Phillips. They bought Aaronson and Sinisterra to replace Raphinha and Adams and Roca to replace Phillips. They also bought and excellent young RB in Kristensen for £11m and a very young talent in Gyabi. Crucially they finished all of this about a week or so before the first game of the season.

We on the other hand are still scrabbling for 2-3 important players after we've played our 5th game. I know it's not easy but this habit we've developed of waiting till transfer deadline to make our moves is really damaging.

As for the match it will be a tough one (they all are). Marsch has Leeds better organized and we tend to melt under aggressive presses like theirs. Maupay will not be totally match sharp after very few minutes this season and we have to hope that the likes of Gordon and Gray can be be clinical and use the ball better when we get it.

As much as we could use a win I'd be relatively content with a draw.

Geoff Lambert
46 Posted 30/08/2022 at 08:58:20
Maupay must start tonight, I don't get this "He wont be ready" rubbish. He has been on the bench for Brighton and had a pre-season, just like the rest of their squad.

Are you telling me if Brighton had an injury to one of their strikers, they would not have risked him because he had not played enough first-team games?

I think a point tonight would not be a disaster but 3 points is what we need. COYB

Craig Walker
47 Posted 30/08/2022 at 09:00:14
I don't fancy us tonight. That makes me worried that we have Liverpool up next and then Arsenal away. We could conceivably have just 2 points after those games.

Will Lampard be given enough time, if that is the case? I really hope so because I can see what he's trying to build despite working with one hand tied behind his back.

I'm just hoping that sometimes the Blues do better in games when you have low expectations. If it were me, I would sell Gordon and try and get 2 or 3 players in to bolster our attack.

It's going to be an interesting week, anyway. It's never dull as an Evertonian is it?

Raymond Fox
48 Posted 30/08/2022 at 09:04:15
A loss is more likely than a win, I'll settle for a draw.

Even so, attack is the best form of defence, so that's how I'd play it.

Christopher Timmins
49 Posted 30/08/2022 at 09:28:34
Maupay must start and Keane must not start!





Mark Taylor
50 Posted 30/08/2022 at 09:49:17
Christopher 49

I like your confidence, expecting us to beat them with only 10 men!

Derek Taylor
51 Posted 30/08/2022 at 10:02:41
Look forward to '5 at the back' and Maupay's appearance from the bench if we go behind in the second half.

Lampard was born to be cautious and will hail a no-score draw a victory. Thus he will continue his path to relegation.

Dave Williams
52 Posted 30/08/2022 at 10:15:48
We are unbeaten in our last three games!

Frank is changing the way we play which will take time and some iffy results along the way. We need a win tonight as the following two games are very difficult.

Maupay will make a difference as will Gana if he ever gets here. In the meantime I would go 4-3-3 and play young Warrington as the holding midfielder. He looks ready to me and we badly need someone to play in that role. If not him then Tom or Allan.

We can win this.

James Head
53 Posted 30/08/2022 at 11:10:30
If Lampard persists with this three across the back and the "wing-backs" system Leeds will rip us to pieces, I also don't like that he has pushed the stronger more dominant Tarkowski out to the left to accommodate Cody, Tarkowski looks very uncomfortable there and the whole defence looks confused not helped by the erratic clown behind them in between the sticks.

Lampard's in-game management is also suspect, he looks clueless as our goal comes under bombardment and appears to just have his fingers crossed that we won't concede, his subs are also baffling.

How about we just try 4-4-2 Frank which can change to 4-5-1 when not in possession, is that too complex for the poor little feeble minds of our players.

It'd be nice to watch a game without constantly having your blood pressure going through the roof as highly paid professionals constantly struggle to do the basics, keep it tight don't concede early and please can we pass and move, preferably forward.

With Calvert-Lewin likely to be in and out all season as he prevaricates on his career choice, football or fashion, the signing of an out-and-out centre-forward before the window shuts is an absolute must but the club is run on such a chaotic, amateurish basis that I doubt it will happen

Heartbreaking that this once-proud club has been brought to this place where we are now has-beens and rightly dismissed as non-contenders.

Kenwright OUT!

Andrew McLawrence
54 Posted 30/08/2022 at 11:45:03
Bournemouth pulled the trigger already I see. How long will Frank get I wonder?
Ciarán McGlone
55 Posted 30/08/2022 at 11:55:06
If he plays a back 5 against the shite and we suffer a heavy defeat i'd say he'll be in a very precarious position.
Charles Brewer
56 Posted 30/08/2022 at 11:55:09
I'm expecting a 1-0 win for Everton tonight.

But then I'm also expecting Jesus to return this afternoon, world peace to break out by dinner time, and to win £100 million on the lottery (which will be extra impressive because I don't know how to buy a ticket).

Kevin Molloy
57 Posted 30/08/2022 at 12:22:19
Other than Bournemouth at home, there's not a team in the league that I wouldn't be sucking my teeth at the prospect of playing and saying 'not sure about this'.

If you swap Forest for one of the teams that went down, we are already 4 points down on last season's memorable fare, and that moves to five if we are pointless tonight. And we've had an easy start and aren't even out of August.

Normally you'd get shot down for such pessimism but does anyone seriously expect us to win tonight? We were very poor last season, as were Leeds with their new guy. Now, well we can barely see them in the distance. They've hammered the team that beat us on cruise control at home.

The thing which really is starting to bug me is I think Frank doesn't rate us. He's behaving as someone would who's gone to a terrible club, and been asked to do the best for them.

Right, we're hopeless at the back, let's go with five at the back, home and away. That then allows our weak fullbacks not to be so exposed, and who knows they might get forward every now and then.

That's now our threat from the flanks: 'we might get forward once in a while'.
Obviously, this retrograde set-up has left us totally rudderless going forward.

The only ploy we have is literally a well-timed big hoof. It's not fucking good enough. I want the two wingers back, four at the back, and a passing game.

If Frank thinks that's pie in the sky, he needs to go.

Nick Page
58 Posted 30/08/2022 at 12:34:54
Kevin, we are a terrible club. As soon as we accept that, we can do something about it but most can't or won't through sheer ignorance.

The blame is all on Bill Kenwright and his cronies that have systematically ruined Everton through total and utter incompetence and greed. He is a cancerous wart sucking the last vestiges of life from a decaying carcass.

If we get a point tonight, it will be well earned. However, I see no evidence it will be forthcoming.

Lee Robinson
59 Posted 30/08/2022 at 12:51:28
Most people seem to be obessessed with us playing 5 at the back. If you look, apart from the Top 2, most of the league is playing a variation of it, it's not just us.

It's 3 at the back in possession and 5 for stability whilst defending. People are forgetting how poor we have looked defensively the past few years, and I personally think we look pretty solid. My only concern is, whilst using this system the intention is to attack with 5, the two wing backs and the front 3.

A lot of teams – including Brentford, Forest etc – play the system with 2 strikers. From what I can see, we rarely get people in the box when we are attacking which is an issue.

If we play this system with a striker it should hopefully work. Bare in mind we're in early days in building a system that works, rather than comparing us against teams who have had years to get used to it.

Ciarán McGlone
60 Posted 30/08/2022 at 13:12:31
Look pretty solid?

We've looked abysmal at the back Lee. The ideal is that it's a 3 man back line in possession.. but that's only the case if you can keep possession and transition forward. Second half at the weekend was a permanent back 5 with us hoofing it away in possession. We looked confused and bewildered playing that system. Tarkowski looks utterly clueless in it.

And then there's the impact on midfield.

Most teams are not playing a back 5.

Danny Baily
61 Posted 30/08/2022 at 13:28:34
In Frank's press conference, he said that we've looked good at the back.

Worryingly delusional stuff.

Lee Robinson
62 Posted 30/08/2022 at 13:34:12
Hi Ciaran, I have to disagree, apart from Saturday second half, I can't think of many clear-cut opportunities from the opposition.

Brentford chucked everything at us and on another day they could have scored 4, but I would argue if we had an outlet, it wouldn't have been coming back as easy.

Most teams are playing a variation of 3 at the back, with wingbacks, I said.

Colin Malone
63 Posted 30/08/2022 at 14:02:52
Cannot understand why Allan isn't getting a game. Midfield is too weak with a two,

Four at the back and five in midfield with Allan until such time we get the world class players to play Frank's way.

Kieran Kinsella
64 Posted 30/08/2022 at 14:08:06

It's not like we've conceded 6 goals a game. Last season, every time we conceded a corner, we conceded a goal. No-one has even scored an own-goal yet.

The other thing to consider is that our attack is weak. Consequently our defense is under pressure for more of the game. At this level, even a good defense under the kosh is bound to concede sooner or later.

And what's your benchmark for a good defense? Man City? Man Utd? Chelsea? All of whom have been torn through already.

Lee Robinson
65 Posted 30/08/2022 at 14:42:27
I suggest let's give it a chance when we have a regular solid side out with game time for Onana and Iwobi and a striker. We have two very good wingbacks both sides in Patterson and Vinagre and, from the looks of it so far, solid centre-backs.

I like the way we are building from the back this season with an intention for the long cross ball, passing between the lines to Iwobi to build and over the top accurate passes from Coady for the goal we saw on Saturday.

The last few seasons were unbearable watching the nervy slow passing between Keane and Godfrey until someone wellied it up to Calvert-Lewin expecting him to magically pull it out of thin air surrounded by 2 defenders.

It's work in progress at the minute without any attacking threat and little on the bench.

Ciarán McGlone
66 Posted 30/08/2022 at 14:48:09
"Hi Ciaran, I have to disagree, apart from Saturday second half, I can’t think of many clear-cut opportunities from the opposition."

Did you watch Tarkowski against Forest? He was all over the place. Patterson was not much better.

Jay Harris
67 Posted 30/08/2022 at 15:00:03
If you play most of the game in your own half, you will not score goals and will invite lots of pressure.

That is exactly what we have been experiencing.

A 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 can work but you have to push up and control the transition of play.

It fails miserably when you hoof the ball forward to a non-existent centre-foward to bring it under control and hold up play. Maupay will not solve this problem, and neither will a front 3 consisting of wingers whose goalscoring record is abysmal.

IMO we should play 4-4-2 in away games and 4-3-3 at home especially now we seem to have Gana Gueye back.

Kieran Kinsella
68 Posted 30/08/2022 at 15:15:42

Agreed, Tarkowski made some poor mistakes against Forest. And I am not saying we are perfect by any means but we are a lot more solid and comparatively much better defensively than attack.

In recent seasons if someone made a mistake, Ashley Williams would put his head under his shirt, Pickford would scream, Mason spit his gum, and Coleman pat the culprit Keane on the back as they all stopped play and allowed the goal to be conceded.

Now, at least if someone screws up, someone else will make an effort to stop it. That's a big difference. But over time I think, with the better quality players we now have, the misunderstandings and mistakes will also become more infrequent.

Ciarán McGlone
69 Posted 30/08/2022 at 15:17:20

Just because the (overly average) opposition haven't capitalised and put 6 past us doesn't negate the mistakes that have been so obvious in defending (although on another day Brentford could have).

I'd also suggest that we are weak in attack precisely because of this formation – it's a regressive argument to say this formation isn't working because our offence is weak. The offence is clearly weakened by the formation... and there appears to be no added benefit to the defence given the bewildered performances.

If Lampard can't do anything else, then I fear he is for the birds.

Andrew Ellams
70 Posted 30/08/2022 at 15:40:04
5 at the back will do for Lampard and as Coady was brought in especially for that formation. I don't see a change anytime soon.

Sam Hoare
71 Posted 30/08/2022 at 15:57:00
A back 3/5 is not inherently problematic. It just needs the right coaching and the right personnel. Ideally you'd have a leader type in the middle with 2 more mobile options either side.

In my opinion, we'd have been better off loaning Levi Colwill (or someone else mobile) than Conor Coady for this reason.

Danny Baily
72 Posted 30/08/2022 at 16:12:37
Andrew 70, agreed.

The verbal commitments we've made to the new signings really does mean we're stuck with this formation for the most part. Just have to hope everything clicks together at some point.

Eddie Dunn
73 Posted 30/08/2022 at 16:36:56
It will be interesting to see Lampard's selection and if he will take a break from his ususal conservative approach to new signings, and play Maupay from the off.

Also of note will be the defence. If he decides against a back four, then we can assume that is what he will be sticking to.

I haven't a clue about the result. We are capable of tearing teams apart with our approach play but can we find the net and can our midfield screen our ever-retreating centre-halves?

Dale Self
74 Posted 30/08/2022 at 16:38:52
A note on the 3 at the back discussion, that is the youth setup and it may explain the early good look of Warrington and others.
Sean Roe
75 Posted 30/08/2022 at 16:44:07
Dale, just as it should be. It can only prove valuable when stepping up from U18s to U21s and then hopefully the first team.
Ian Bennett
76 Posted 30/08/2022 at 16:45:06
He's signed Coady, and got Patterson, so I think 5 at the back is guaranteed until Gana comes in.



Vinagre (or perhaps McNeil)


James Marshall
77 Posted 30/08/2022 at 16:47:09
When you have a DoF who quite literally wrote a book on use of the 3-5-2 formation, there's every chance you're going to be disappointed every week if you don't agree with it.

Why anyone thinks we're going to change with Kevin Thelwell at the club is beyond me.

If you don't know what I'm on about, feel free to Google his book and get yourself a copy. It's a thrilling read.

Mark Murphy
79 Posted 30/08/2022 at 17:05:11

Not taking the mick here but we're you being serious when you said:

“We are capable of tearing teams apart with our approach play”


James Newcombe
80 Posted 30/08/2022 at 17:37:21
80 yeah Luke, I only just watched his post-game interview. Poor bloke sounds devastated – I do think he is a promising manager, we won't have seen the last of him.

Onto tonight, we really, really need the points. Let's hope Maupay gets off to a flyer.

Luke Welch
81 Posted 30/08/2022 at 17:51:50
we seem to have been a team where are wounds are pretty obvious to everyone we have played. So let's hope Maupay starts and we cause a few surprises.
Terry Farrell
82 Posted 30/08/2022 at 18:51:39
Enjoy the game Neil the atmosphere will be terrific. Hope we show up and make a game if it coyb
Oliver Molloy
83 Posted 30/08/2022 at 19:14:17
Jesse Marsch annoys the fuck out of me, expect the usual sideline pretentious theatrics - hoping for something but expecting nothing, that's all for now.

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