FFP – Profitability and Sustainability

Just got home from work and social media saying we're getting a 12 points deduction on Friday yet not a peep about it on ToffeeWeb. What's going on?

Colin,

I can't find a concrete thing, file as rumour - for now.

As Will says, there's plenty of rumours around, from a suspended points deduction, to a 10-point deduction effective as soon as it's announced, with the delay being due to how the Premier League word the statement. Take no notice of any of it, until the official statement appears on the website of the Premier League.

It's what 3 weeks since the committee sat, surely that's enough time to come to a conclusion and decide a punishment should it be deemed applicable?

Seems like every man and his dog knows the outcome, problem is that they all saying something different. 😂

As Barry says above, it's been 3 weeks, they must be terrified of opening a can of worms with a points deduction. Considering that Man City, Chelsea etc will probably need an exponentially bigger penalty. Also the backlash of blatant unfair treatment after the Super League 6 got off scot-free for a transgression on a whole different level.

My guess is there is entrenched disagreement behind the scenes on what to do.

If we get done, what will they do with Man City (100+ counts) and Chelsea who've been found out doing illegal payments and sanctions busting? Probably sweet FA.

Indeed, Colin. That's why I figured a suspended sentence is the most likely outcome. It's the easy way out, & paves the way for other easy ways out in the future.

They need to set a precedent before this Government appointed independent regulator is in place.

I hope the earlier rumour was correct (suspended 6 points deduction). Even with the poor quality of the sides at the bottom this season, making up twelve points is one hell of an ask. Probably too much for this side.

Looking at the source of this rumour, it looks like rubbish.

Take no notice about a 12-point deduction rumour. It's from a Newcastle fan.

I got this from a mate in September who read in The Athletic:

“The UK government has admitted its embassy in Abu Dhabi and the Foreign Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) in London have discussed the charges levelled at Manchester City by the Premier League, but are refusing to disclose the correspondence because it could risk the UK's relationship with the United Arab Emirates (UAE).”

So, what are the chances of City getting wellied for a zillion points…..and as we don't have links with the Arabs…

The Premier League imo is very much in damage limitation mode. I too expected an announcement by now, but the delay is probably packaging of a palatable solution for all parties.

The implications of a decision are many:

- Adding to Everton's financial problems and jeopardising the future of a Premier League club and the development of a Premier League standard stadium.

- The reaction of other Premier League clubs and media that has put its eggs in the wrong basket.

- The implication being contingent on other clubs who are in breach and close to being in breach of Profit and Sustainability Rules.

- The knock-on effect on Clubs under Uefa's FFP Rules.

So there are a lot of balls in the air that have to be carefully managed.

On the takeover front, the lack of any apparent progress has triggered Paul Quinn to post this on Twatter:

2 months after announcing Moshiri & 777 partners had agreed a t/o of Everton not one shred of evidence has been provided by Moshiri, 777 or Everton that 777 are the right, let alone fit & proper future owners of Everton FC. The floor is open to any connected party to prove such:

— the esk (@theesk) November 15, 2023

Perhaps the more pertinent question is: Have they provided the information required by the Premier League, the Football Association, and the Financial Conduct Authority?

After all, when push comes to shove, that is the only thing that matters in respect of authorising the proposed takeover by 777 Partners. I could be wrong but I don't think this involves them having to provide evidence that 777 are the right, or fit and proper future owners of Everton FC.

While it makes for a nice soundbyte on Twatter, that seems to be a wholly subjective bar Paul has established himself to support the stall he set out from Day One.

And what a ridiculous challenge: "The floor is open to any connected party to prove such:" They don't have to. Nobody has to.

Tony,

“Also, the backlash of blatant unfair treatment after the Super League 6 got off scot-free for a transgression on a whole different level.”

Whilst I'd love this to be the case, I think the only backlash will be from us. No-one else will give a monkey's about us and indeed will gleefully pile on at every chance they get.

Don't forget the media's part in this – they'll twist it so their darling Red Shite look like angels in comparison. Fuck them!

UTFT

Michael @12,

I know you don't agree with a lot that Paul the Esk says, sorry you don't like non de plumes so I should say Paul Quinn. But there are quite a few well-respected journalists like Phillipe Auclair who have written many articles questioning how 777 Partners operates.

The late payment of bills, the idea of asking fans to pay for the training ground, I am sure this doesn't look or seem to operate in a way that generates any confidence that they have the money or the expertise to turn this club around.

They seem to want to move away from their core business which is aviation and insurance and try and tap into the football world. The fans at a couple of the clubs they own or part own have openly rebelled against their ownership, so again it does not give anybody any confidence that this won't happen if they take over at Everton.

Seems their plan is to borrow money from investors to help buy the club and these investors will want a decent return on their investment. I believe the figures for our interest payments to both Rights & Media Funding and MSP are in double figures, so seeing that more than 90% of our income is paid out in wages, it is very difficult to see how 777 Partners are going to be able to pay the new investors a return as well as still paying Rights & Media Funding and MSP.

Should we get a 12-point deduction to be applied this season, it will be extremely difficult to avoid relegation, and with money still needed to complete the stadium and no clauses in players contracts to lower their wages if that happens. That would in my opinion make the sale of the stadium to a 3rd party a given and a fire sale of most of the 1st team.

If you believe some of the rumors, by tomorrow we may know exactly what all this is about, what we have done, or not, and the damage we will have to deal with. It's difficult, no impossible to speculate what we are alleged to have done, never mind what the consequences. So I am not even going to try...

But the media hype is gleefully rubbing its hands in joyous expectation, faux outrage on our behalf when none is needed. Somebody wants us to be made an example of.

If we have been creative with our accounting, then I agree we deserve what we get, if and only if, other clubs, Chelsea, Man City, Nottm Forest, the ones who have been creative may not have broken the rules but certainly the spirit of them.

You can see why 777 Partners are sniffing the air and sensing a killing with our nitwit owner. The club is probably worth upto £100 million more than when negotiations began, given we now won't in all likelihood be relegated, and the players are now in form (what price Branthwaite alone?).

Let's hope someone else comes in though, cos 777 Partners, I mean where the hell are they going to get the money to fund us if they've just handed over half a billion to Farhad?

Best case scenario, we are back to the Kenwright days of a good manager being allowed to keep the money he generates. Worst case, the shits actually start taking money out of the club.

Brian,

I hope you've written to the authorities, telling them how awful 777 Partners are and how badly it's going to turn out. Because if you haven't and they are allowed to come in and asset-strip us down to the bare bones and whatever else the scaremongers have in store for us, then you may hold some culpability for allowing it to happen.

That aside, making money out of investing in football clubs is what owners have always tried to do. Some have succeded. Perhaps the prime example closest to home is a former custodian who is no longer with us.

(Or is it still too soon to speak ill of the dead? I'll take it as a sign that the period of official mourning is now over because the Royal Blue has been reinstated in the page headers at the official club website.)

It shouldn't be surprising that this custodian made it acceptable while he personally oversaw the long-term decline of Everton FC, eventually making sure he could show the biggest possible return on investment made in his name. It's what they do.

And as a Shareholder, I have some culpability in not making a stronger stand against the abysmal management and leadership exhibited from the boardroom under his domination.

But then he did rather emasculate what was left of the 'little' shareholder rump, removing our right to an Annual General Meeting where we could at least briefly feel we were doing our duty to question the relentless decline in our status as a Premier League football club.

But thankfully I've been reassured these last few weeks that he only ever had the best interests of the club at heart. So just perhaps we can now trust our future to some really bad actors who have learnt by making many mistakes how to operate in the sleazy world of high finance and are well qualified to reverse the trend of the last 20+ years?

Michael,

Seeing you are co editor of this excellent website I find it a bit disappointing that while we are discussing the possible outcome of the commission's decision on whether we have transgressed any rules, you decide to write 2 posts, one attacking a dead man, and the other attacking a fellow poster.

As for your suggestion about writing to the Premier League while I know you weren't serious why would anybody think the Premier League is in the slightest bit interested in anything the fans have an opinion on.

I hope you are right and 777 Partners turn out to be brilliant owners and that in 3 years time we are praising them to the hilt.

I like the overview of Tony Everan and Jerome Shields. If there were consensus we could expect some talk or the actual ruling by now.

Brian,

At least it's not just me in this 'attack' on Paul Quinn (Attack… really? Can't we just have a difference of opinions?). Here's a sampling from some of his replies on Twatter:

Do you think they are all scrambling for their phones to answer you? Whether you like it or not the only ones who can stop this now are the premier league and they don't give a fuck

You say the floor is open to any connected party to prove such? Will 777 not get the approval? If so are there any other interested parties that are interested in taking us over with a wealthy backing?

Since when did you own a stake in Everton? You can hope they're the right owners but [they] have no reason to show us anything

Have a day off

It would have been provided to the relevant parties

We know, it is currently undergoing the official regulatory scrutiny after which we will learn if those important 'authorities' approve or refuse the takeover. I don't see what the problem is with that.

I suppose the facts are:
We have to trust the system, they will either sanction 777 or not.
Whatever we think of them, it's pretty much out of our hands.
Moshiri is the owner and is ultimately the most powerful man in this scenario, whatever we think of him.

It's getting very boring now Paul. If you get proved right "Yay! Paul was proved right."
We can't stay as we are and for all your musings, none of us know, including you, know how this will pan out.

They are going through an approval process aren't they? The FA, the Premier League, the FCA and apparently the Esk

Just one question, I'm not for them at all, but if they don't take over, what is the option? Administration and a 9 point deduction plus probably 12 points for FFP, no money as Moshiri clearly isn't putting anything else in, why not roll the dice?

How do you know? Have been to all the meetings in the past 8 weeks or so? Logically if they failed at some point since the start of all this then the takeover panel should call a halt and show them the door, they havent though.

Not to my recollection, but has there ever been a instance of a prospective owner of a Premier League club fail the Owners' and Directors' Test?

Time will tell I suppose, I believe it's not till end of the year when it's all expected to be completed. Whether you personally think [they are] the right new ownership is irrelevant, if they pass all tests they will be the new owners! We all just have to wait & see.

They only need to provide that to the Premier League and FCA so stop spreading shit

Shame on 777 for not providing it to you personally on a golden platter with a bow. How dare they ignore your whinging eh? They should show more respect.

The people to prove that are the Financial Conduct Authority and (sadly) the Football Association. It's certainly not in your gift to make that decision, though you can make whatever judgement you want. Given all the competing stories I'd rather see if they can get past this check.

You made out that 777 were so dodgy that they would have easily be found out, if that's the case then we would have heard a verdict already, which we haven't. Still, we have no verdict yet but your suspicions are poorly based. TLDR: Your chatting bollocks.

I don't know how you don't seem to get this, Moshiri doesn't give a shit about whether they are the best fit for EFC. Same as Bill before him, he's only arsed about himself.

Haha the sheer desperation by you to appear relevant us actually very sad. They owe you or any other fan nothing. It's between 777 and the PL. Don't remember msp showing any evidence yet you were fine with them charlatans

The longer this ruling takes, the worse I think it will be for us. If there was no case to answer, I'm sure we would have heard something by now.

Hi Brian @18

I didn't see anything in Michael's post where he "attacked" anyone.

Our former Chairman has passed on. I would hate to think that just because is no longer alive, we cannot discuss the period under his Chairmanship.

His death does not absolve him from blame for the decades of mismanagement that we saw under his watch - mismanagement that has resulted in our club being hauled in front this independent commission and could see us face a points deduction.

I have no problem offering condolences to our former Chairman's family and friends on his passing, but it does not mean we need to re-write history.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Regarding 777, two things changed in that equation; the prospective ruling has likely given 777 a ballpark valuation but due to Dyche getting some results, Moshiri's ask may have increased.

Going back to the original post on here.. the rumours are just that.. rumours.

Made up by Newcastle fans who were roundly 'done' by Tony Campari's tweets re the Newcastle Board contemplating sacking Eddie Howe.

Tony Campari aka Chico Azul who has been winding them up for a long long time and they fall for it each time. This was just their silly way of trying to get some revenge.

Paul @21,

There could well be something in what you say, however, it could just as easily be an issue of the timing of the announcement being suitable to both the Premier League and our club, rather than the contents of it.

As for historical revisionism, I read one media 'tribute' to the late Chairman where it conveniently spoke about x Top 8 finishes during his tenure.

It ran from when he became Chairman right up to when he sold his shares to Moshiri. Conveniently forgetting the true span of his ownership and the full length of time he was actually the club's Chairman.

It would be like, only taking Howard Kendall's best period in charge of Everton in the 1980s from 1984 to 1987 and airbrushing the first couple of seasons and his second and third tenure.

Keep posting, Paul The Esk, because it looks to me that you have only got Everton Football Club's best interests in your heart, mate.

The desperate people will take anything after the shite we have had to endure for a very long time, (very understandable) but some people don't want to continue accepting shite, and I'm pretty certain that 777 Partners don't fill many Evertonians with much confidence?

The Blue Union were scorned upon by thousands and I'm not sure KEIOC had the backing of the majority of Evertonians either, but just imagine where we might have been without these great people? And stick to your guns, Paul!

I can't believe you haven't put up one of those voting things upon ToffeeWeb, Michael, just to see what type of support 777 Partners genuinely have?

Paul # 21…

I think the opposite to you, in that if we were found to be guilty, then the Premier League wouldn't be able to hold their own piss, and would be desperate to let the whole world know that we have committed the most criminal of all crimes.

I also think that, if guilty, they want to punish us by way of a suspended points deduction and probably a fine, but cannot yet get round to deciding how many and how much, but something that will keep us quiet when it comes round Man City and Chelsea learning their fate… that's if it ever gets that far for those two clubs.

I'm not sure we should reduce it to a popularity contest, Tony.

I think it's a lot more important than that.

Good words Tony! If Paul is reading I hope he understands that many of us appreciate his analysis with all its precarious terrain.

Michael, I totally agree with you on both counts.

My opinion of Kenwright is well known since the King's Dock fiasco and his lies about remortgaging his flat which some people still believe.

Paul the Esk has disappointed me of late with his rantings about 777 Partners despite some earlier excellent financial analysis. He is turning into a profit of doom lately.

Personally speaking, I would prefer someone looking to make a profit and having good management about the place rather than a rich buffoon and an egotist who didn't have a clue between them.

777 Partners may not be who we had hoped for but at least they will have boots on the ground helping to run the club properly.

If they dock us 12 points, then they will have to come down on other teams as well, opening a can of worms.

If we are guilty and we get punished, it might work in our favour, we have seen firsthand when we are fighting off relegation, the fans up the ante tenfold, with feeling like we have been hard-done-by, we will more than make those 12 points up, and imagine when we do, the two fingers we can stick up to everyone.

By all means punish us if we have broken the rules, but make sure you hand out the same to every other team who has flaunted FFP while at the same time allowing the breakaway 6 to get off scot-free.

Moshiri must be so happy with the free pass thanks to Bill.

Amazingly enough, all the current attention on Chelsea is firmly fixed on Abramovich and none on the Chairman of Chelsea during his tenure. But those of us at Goodison Park are blaming the monkey and not the organ grinder.

Did we have any FFP issues up to the point of Moshiri taking over? We never had enough money to have FFP issues! And that is what we all moaned about.

Sorry but the guy who put us into this mess is Moshiri.
Who sacked Martinez and appointed Koeman?
Who bought 3 x #10s - Koeman, Moshiri's appointment
Who chased Marco Silva? And then sacked him?
Who appointed Benitez?

I know some of you are miffed that Bill was in the right place at the right time to buy for a knockdown price his boyhood football club and managed to eventually find someone to pay a significant amount simply because the value of the whole market had increased (like my friends buying a house in London for £250k and now, 20 years later, it's worth £750k). But hey.

I am still of the opinion that there is nothing to see, please move along.

If there had been anything wrong, the Premier League mandarins would have hung, drawn and quartered us by now. We would have been easy meat and a club to set an example by.

Whilst Chelsea and Man City would have ample time to fight their corner.

Just on the 12 points possible deduction.

We are a third through the season. Add on the results from last year from the fixtures still to play to where we all are now.

Everton would finish on 41 - less 12 = 29
Burnley are 2 points down on Leicester from last year and would finish on 32
Sheffield Utd are matching Leeds so would finish on 31
Luton are 7 points worse than Southampton so would finish on 19

Therefore we need another 3 points. I can easily see us picking up the points compared to last season and maybe even Burnley and Sheffield Utd dropping more points.

I would almost be tempted to say – can we wait to the end of the season and swop any suspended points deduction for 12 now – stay up and ask the FA to ask questions about Man City and Chelsea…

Phil, since the Monkey (as you call it) is no longer there, Everton have been unbeaten, and are having their best run for a long time, and in a quarter-final of a cup competition. Maybe the Monkey was just unlucky or a jinx.

Before anyone jumps all over me, I would never wish any ill will on anybody, I'm just stating a fact.

The media are peddling this 12-point deduction as gospel, even the press in Europe are treating it as a fait accompli, such is the power of rumour mongers and the Twitterati.

My concern is and always has been, if the commission and the Premier League deem our transgressions as being way out of the spectrum, they might not bother with deducting points but could relegate us as a matter of course, with the club having no chance of saving itself.

We'll have to wait and see what happens, but I feel as if there's nothing off the table, as to a great extent this is a test case, which has no precedent.

Of course we can always hope that they take the line that, whatever the punishment dealt out, if the club is found guilty, it won't in any way punish the fans – not much of a hope to have really is it? I can't wait for the actual decision to be published, but I also dread it being published too.

Brian,

It was also the "monkey" that was there when we got into the Champions League and finished 4th in the table and no sign of the organ grinder at the time, as he was busy with his mate in the Arsenal boardroom.

Maybe, the "monkey", having appointed one dour and solid manager who took us away from continual relegation fights, persuaded the organ grinder to stick his Hollywood managers where the sun does not shine and got him to appoint another dour and solid manager who seems to be taking us away from continual relegation fights.

As the saying goes:

"A lie can run round the world, before the truth has put on their shoes."

The organ grinder stumped up the money and watched over £450 million spent on at best average players, he put his money where his mouth is, hardly his fault it was wasted on bang average players.

Cannot disagree on the 4th place, but the money invested on that squad, came from the sale of one of our finest youngsters being sold, and it continued with sales of our best players being the case to invest on other players coming in.

If you want to pat anyone on the back, then Moyes deserves the biggest credit, for the players he brought in and which were later sold on for a profit. In his 11-year tenure, Moyes's balance on incoming and outgoings where just over minus £1 million.

Say whatever you like about Moyes but what he achieved with having to wheel and deal is nothing short of outstanding.

The joke is that the creeps who've been on -12 points all along know damn well Everton isn't going down either way. This is all they get and they are getting everything they can like the girlfriend after breakup saying “this is mine! I'm taking that, oh and that too…”.

It's definitely a lot more serious than being a popularity contest, Michael, but it might gauge a how a small percentage of the fan base are feeling, and maybe even attract a bit of media attention, if the results show that 777 aren't a very popular choice.

777 are definitely not the only group interested in purchasing Everton, but when reading through the media, it often seems like they are the only group that are really interested, and because of how serious this is for us Evertonians, then maybe we should try and do a bit more?

Does anyone know for certain when the results of this investigation will be made public?

Wouldn't think so, Ray #42.

Everything allegedly was left in the hands of the Independent Commission including the timescale for the announcement of the decision.

If we get docked 12 points in the worst-case scenario, as being spouted by the media, it will take us bottom with 2 points.
Only 4 games (and wins) from our current point tally so no great hardship.

I can't see the bottom 4-5 getting too many points to keep us in the Bottom 3 for too long and I think Dyche and the team will really push on with that old 'Dogs of War' mentality if it does come to that.

It's quite worrying, Brendan, having this hanging over us.

The more I read and the more I think of it, I'm sure that football is riddled with corruption.

A 12-point deduction would definitely keep us out of the Champions League.

I'm sick of your negativity Mike.

So much conjecture over a topic we all know the square root of fuck-all about. Quite funny.

As long as the team keeps getting points on the pitch, that is the only thing that matters right now as relegation would be the end of the club.

Hopefully we can get our home form to improve, stay clear of injuries and Beto can score some bloody goals before I have to ship him out of my fantasy league side.

Enjoy the break all. Get some early Xmas shopping in - seems to start earlier every year, may as well start celebrating Xmas in August, at least the weather would be nicer…

A 12-point deduction would see us reborn not only martyrs but working-class heroes spoke of in reverence a la the Busby Babes (by avoiding the drop of course which I think we would).

The chest thumping and swaggering would be off the scale, I can't wait.

I can't shake the feeling of déjà vu, that we are in for a kicking just to show anyone and everyone the Premier League means business.

We rant on about Man City and the injustice of other clubs getting around the system with creative accounting but it reminds me of Niasse, the only player to be banned retrospectively for simulation — will Everton be the only club to be penalised for breaking the rules on P&S?

It really has that feel, having been made an example of, an outcry from the top clubs to change the rules... it happens, they all pat each other on the back and laugh, shame about Everton though, they laugh and turn away.

Nah, it would never happen would it?

I really don't understand how a poll on 777 would be some sort of popularity contest. Are all ToffeeWeb polls popularity contests? This is an obvious subject for a poll and I for one would be very interested in the outcome and would make no predictions.

Put one up Michael, this is a critical issue for us and the club and the general feelings on this site would be well worth knowing.

At least give us a poll to see if we should have a poll!

Christine @ 50,

Niasse was suspended for two matches, due to being found guilty of "successfully deceiving a match official". Patrick Bamford at Leeds was also punished for the same offence.

Leeds striker Patrick Bamford has been banned for two matches by the Football Association after being found guilty of "successful deception of a match official" in the draw with Aston Villa.

Bamford went down as though he had been hit in the face by Anwar El Ghazi after Leeds' controversial opening goal.

Replays showed Villa's Dutch winger had made no contact with the head of the 25-year-old.

El Ghazi was sent off but had the red card rescinded on Tuesday.

They [Leeds United] added: "The club felt that given the circumstances surrounding the incident, including the extraordinary act of sportsmanship which saw our head coach Marcelo Bielsa demand our team to allow Aston Villa to score an uncontested equaliser, we could have a sensible discussion around the sanction." — Source: BBC

It will be interesting, Christine.

If they make an example then they have to follow through with others. We will see.

Manchester United next and then Forest. And then on to play Chelsea and Newcastle before a quarter-final.

Before Christmas, from what I've seen this season, we can be on a points tally in the mid-20s and in a Semi Final.

1878 The Originals.

Christine, yes, agreed. Someone needs to be made an example of, and it's going to be far too much strife for everyone involved if Man City are held to account.

As we know, we are the perfect fall guy. No-one outside of L4 will give a rat's arse about a 12-pointer heading our way, no doubt there will be much merriment all round. We probably don't appreciate as Evertonians just how far down the firmament we have fallen.

To amuse myself, I've been viewing some of the fan reactions to our recent away wins in the capital. The look of horrified disbelief by these talking heads as they digest a home loss is almost laughable:

'You can lose, and you can lose well. But Facking hell, you are telling me you can lose AT HOME, To Fakkin EVERTON?! It's a fakkin Disgrace!'

Gotta bend over to get you know what.

The fans will pay the price of a hefty sanction and those accountable are trying to get rid.

Hopefully it will be deferred or suspended.

The Guardian reports that:

The Premier League must now decide whether it has sufficient evidence to charge Chelsea with breaking the rules. The Football Association is also investigating the west London club's finances.

Clive Betts, a Labour MP who heads a cross-party parliamentary group on football, called on the culture secretary, Lucy Frazer, to put pressure on football's governing bodies to look into the findings in depth.

In a written question, he asked whether Frazer, whose department oversees sport, “believes that clubs which seek to circumvent the Premier League's Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules undermine the credibility of the competition and are guilty of cheating”.

Betts also asked whether Frazer intends to contact the Premier League in relation to the allegations and whether she accepts that a new football regulator must have sufficient resources and skills to identify breaches of FFP and hold clubs to account.

A senior executive at one top-flight club said they were becoming frustrated with the length of time it has taken to investigate alleged breaches of financial rules by other clubs. They said any punishment meted out to Everton was likely to be seen as a signal of how severe penalties could be at other clubs if they are found to have breached the rules, but said the case “seems to go on for ever” given that Everton are facing only one charge.

Kieran Maguire, football finance expert and author of The Price of Football, said: “There could be pressure from other clubs to take things further [if Chelsea are charged] given the extent of the report into these unusual offshore transactions.”

Mr Betts has a colourful history as an MP, but the more I read and the length of time it's taking to come to a conclusion, the more I'm concerned that Everton will indeed be the exemplar for the Premier League and their quest to keep everything in-house, rather than succumb to an independent regulator - we'll see.

Pressure grows on Premier League to crack down on club spending breaches

Barry, splitting hairs I know but Niasse was the very first player to be found guilty afterwards of diving in the penalty area, and made an example of, while the other was for an alleged assault some 18 months later.

In the 7 years since Niasse was suspended, there have been a ridiculously low number of cases of deception that have resulted in suspension (a handful at most) but he was first, an example to be made.

Point being it would not surprise me if the P&S and FFP rules were changed as the implications of hitting Everton hard as a deterrent makes no sense because the damage has already been done.

We are not talking about a single charge but Man City, Chelsea and any other club being creatively dishonest to the rules. These clubs have profited immensely with titles, funding and financial profitability already... it's too late to hit them.

The title should be "FFS...Profitability and Sustainability"

Dale #29, while I appreciate The Esk's detailed analyses and the time he takes to do the research and to pen them, he always has the caveat that he is assuming – ie, guessing – figures that he has no knowledge of, and could not have knowledge of, and when asked searching questions does not respond.

So what he says should not be taken as gospel (lore if there's anyone under 30 on here). It's just one person's view (guess) on any possible outcomes.

But he does seem to have a particular down on 777 Partners, whether from inside information he is privy to but cannot reveal? Or just his best guess? We'll have to wait and see.

Think back to the time when Chairman Bill bought the Club and how that was hailed as a brilliant new start, a Boys Pen, True Blue owner, and then look back at that panned out.

Could it be the opposite with 777 Partners?

Phil #20 "like my friends buying a house in London for £250k and now, 20 years later, it's worth £750k"

Then they made a really, really bad deal. Either they or repaid or under sold. Or both.

Ten Point deduction according to breaking news at the Echo, Everton will appeal. I'll put up a link soon

Yeah. Confirmed.

Following the hearing, Everton have been found guilty of a breach of Premier League financial rules.

Everton have been deducted 10 points.

In a statement, the Premier League said: "An independent Commission has imposed an immediate deduction of 10 points on Everton FC for a breach of the Premier League's Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSRs).

"The Premier League issued a complaint against the Club and referred the case to an independent Commission earlier this year. During the proceedings, the Club admitted it was in breach of the PSRs for the period ending Season 2021/22 but the extent of the breach remained in dispute.

"Following a five-day hearing last month, the Commission determined that Everton FC's PSR Calculation for the relevant period resulted in a loss of £124.5million, as contended by the Premier League, which exceeded the threshold of £105million permitted under the PSRs. The Commission concluded that a sporting sanction in the form of a 10-point deduction should be imposed. That sanction has immediate effect."

Ten points, that's opening a can of worms, considering the shit other clubs get away with. It's an absolute disgrace.

It's now up on the club's website.

Football, sky, premier league can go and fuck themselves.

Lets hope Dyche now brings a siege mentality.

We can then look into the knobheads running the club who have brought this on

Tony @65
There's still an appeal to come, however, I can't see them reducing it at all. It won't help to sell the club to parties other than 777 either, and it could lead to administration, which will lead to more points deducted, FFS.

Absolute joke. Disgrace

Ten points is absolutely mad for the offence.

That's just fucking ridiculous. Literally fuck off Premier League. I assume Man CIty will be deducted a million points immediately.

Fuck all for trying to break away to form a super league, but this for us. Absolute stupidity.

Rumoured that Webb has resigned as the overseer of the match officials, citing that it was his and VAR's job to take points off Everton, and not some faceless committee's, he's reported as saying that was the only reason he took the job in the first place. Well you've got to laugh in the face of adversity haven't you?

Wasn't expecting that, whole thing is corrupt and an embarrassment.

Chelsea and City should be relegated to non league football for their breaches, bet nothing happens to them.

Breakaway Super League clubs 10 point deduction then. Man City banished from football leagues. Everton legal team will turn the deduction around on those examples alone.

i say don't appeal, take the punishment, three shitter teams than us and we can survive the drop.

Corruption at its highest

Ffs that's a right kick in the bollox, an unprecedented 10 points deduction puts us in the relegation zone, just as things we're starting to look better, it's tough being a blue but we'll fight back💙

Siege Mentality now. No point crying over it, we need to turn Goodison into a fortress.

At least its dealt with now. I just hope everyone else suffers a similar fate.

Appeal. Fight it and insist that it if it is one rule for one, it is one rule for everyone.

Alan @74
I agree wholeheartedly, at least we'd know exactly what was required, take the punishment and then go about trying to gain the number of points needed to stay up.

I see now where they are going with this. They haven't quite hit us with the maximum. That will be reserved for city. So that they can say, city got even worse. When everyone knows city's crimes are an order of magnitude worse than ours.

Has to be appealed. This is appalling. A stitch up by the footballing bodies. They can get to fuck the corrupt bastards.

A lot of talk about corruption. By who and for what reason? Or is it the Blues that have been corrupt?

and they still haven't even deigned to tell us what the fuck we did wrong.

Don't appeal. They'll just extend the punishment.

We'll stay up. We're good enough to accrue the points required.

Stay up. Build. And stick two fingers up at every c**t who wants us destroyed.

And make no mistake. We've been made an example of.

Everton have released a club statement.

They say: "Everton Football Club is both shocked and disappointed by the ruling of the Premier League's Commission.

"The Club believes that the Commission has imposed a wholly disproportionate and unjust sporting sanction. The Club has already communicated its intention to appeal the decision to the Premier League. The appeal process will now commence and the Club's case will be heard by an Appeal Board appointed pursuant to the Premier League's rules in due course.

"Everton maintains that it has been open and transparent in the information it has provided to the Premier League and that it has always respected the integrity of the process. The Club does not recognise the finding that it failed to act with the utmost good faith and it does not understand this to have been an allegation made by the Premier League during the course of proceedings. Both the harshness and severity of the sanction imposed by the Commission are neither a fair nor a reasonable reflection of the evidence submitted.

"The Club will also monitor with great interest the decisions made in any other cases concerning the Premier League's Profit and Sustainability Rules.

"Everton cannot comment on this matter any further until the appeal process has concluded."

The club needs to take their gloves off and fight back.

Well that's a kick in the bollocks.
I wonder if an appeal will succeed? Could they impose an extra 2 points on us?
Putting aside the scandalous punishment, it is a reflection of just how inept our ownership and Board have been for some years.

Wow. 10 points. Puts us 2nd bottom on goal difference. From there I think we should still stay up as we'll accrue points at a faster rate than our rivals. It'll be nerve racking though. Bastards. I like to think I'm level headed but I do sniff some corruption with this.

Kev, they say we were 19.5m over the three year 105m limit.

The club is right, this is completely disproportionate. An absolute joke.

Fucking joke. Hate to be Chelsea and city now

Quite a lengthy document on the case available on the Premier League website.

The fuckers even announce it on a Friday to ruin your weekend

Robert @ 88
If we had a normal set of home fixtures coming up, I might agree with you, but this punishment gives incredible impetus and hope to the likes of Luton, Sheffield United et al, and it's possible by Boxing Day, Everton could be marooned in the bottom three. It's doable, but it's going to take an enormous effort and much luck to get out of this mess.

Few things surprise me in modern football but this certainly does.

If there's any fairness in football there should be loads of clubs arses twitching now.

currently in work. Not one Liverpool, City or Utd fan is in agreement with this, they all think its a stitch up.

I see we have been Niassed. We are again the patsy for the protection of the big 6. I remember them crying about “hurting the fans” when they all tried to run off to the super league. No sporting sanctions made. I feel this is a protection against the proposed independent regulator. Quite frustrating to not know what we have actually done. And with the appeal, we won't find out.

John, this does not surprise me.

Bear in mind that this is the same Premier League that banned Oumar Niasse, and then... NOBODY ELSE.

The League have a grudge against our club.

Tony

really, 19.5 m? so like six million a year over spend for three years? a ten point deduction for that? can anyone imagine what an absolute drop in the ocean that is compared to the illegal payments city have been pushing around?

We can all moan and the What-aboutery regarding City & Chelsea will ring in PL ears, but it's pretty much what I was expecting. Someone has to be seen to be given a bollocking and we tick the boxes:
Big Club
Not that big anymore for it to matter

Also, if you start with ten points deduction and we appeal to reduce to say, six points, it might be seen as a good result for both parties.

Got to make Goodison a ferocious fortress now - lots of banners and songs about PL corruption that the TV and radio can't miss!

We will not be moved.

Ray @ 96
That's good to know, but even if we have empathy from fans of othe clubs, it's difficult to see what can be done about the situation, apart to fight like Tiger's to get those points back on the pitch.

This may mean the 777 deal might not go through.

My WhatsApp is blowing up with fans of dozens of clubs from various leagues all in disbelief at this - they all think it stinks without fail.

Well positives:

A) now we know

B) it's 10 not 12 points, which means we're not even bottom amazingly.

C) given the quality of the teams above us, we can still beat the drop imo, couple of wins and we can get clear of the drop zone and move on.

We'll be appealing so don't know if that means the 10 points is only applied post appeal or straight away? Also the appeals process itself presumably will take months so how does that play out? If the 10 points is applied now and we then win the appeal it's going to have knock on effects in the table, and vice versa.

If we get 10 points does that mean City and Chelsea get relegated to league 2?? What they're charged with is much worse than what we got punished for.

Will the relegated teams last season now sue us or the league for lost TV money? Leicester would have stayed up had we had a deduction last season.

This has a long way to play out…

I'm just glad we now know and can focus on the Utd game. Winning that will be a large middle finger to the league and anyone else wanting us relegated.

This will be reduced on appeal. Quarrented.

Fuck it, siege mentality now,
We are Everton
No-one likes us
We don't care

Lets stick survival down the PL throats come May.

I think we'll win this on appeal. Cos these figures are bonkers. City have spent billions to buy the league, and they want to give us a ten point fine for being six million a year over the limit?

I see the league table's already been officially updated. Scandalous... but assuming the appeal fails, that currently leaves us level with Burnley, one point back of Sheffield United and two points back of Luton Town. You really don't think we can put up one more point than Burnley, two more points than Sheffield United and three more points than Luton Town over the remaining 26 fixtures? Realistically it's not even that, as I suspect all three will have terrible goal differentials.

We shouldn't appeal.

They'll punish us more severely for daring to stand up for ourselves.

It's corruption. Why are Man City and Chelsea not playing non league football??

Dennis (105), Accordng to the findings of the Commission the points deduction starts immediately.

I hope Jordan throws a few in the England net tonight, tells them to keep their bloody England shirt and after the game, walks out of the camp.

Swear Jar time but fuck them.

Fight them and appeal.

Regardless, we have 26 games and 78 points to play for.

Fuck them and laugh in their faces when we remain in their Premier League.

Not sure if points deduction means losing all points gained and then you are at zero THEN the 10 point deduction starts which means you are zero -10 points.

Well then, they did what they were told to do near enough !
Moshiri pathetic excuse to keep on spending because of "we had no midfield " is quite extraordinary.
The sooner this man is gone the better, and I suspect we haven't heard the end of this.
If we stay up it will be some feat.

There should be no appeal in case it drags on to next season when we may need the 10 points more than we do now.

You can bleat all you like about corruption. The bare figures have always looked like a clear breach of the rules. Moshiri, Kenwright, DBB and the rest of the 'directors' are the people I'm angry with for their complete lack of governance.

I'm more concerned with this nugget.

The next section is application. I am satisfied that the applicant clubs have potential claims for compensation. Those claims and their validity depend on whether the complaint is upheld.
They depend on factual circumstances concerning the causation of any loss and they depend on other factual issues.

Andrew @115
No mate, they reduce whatever points you already have by the ten points, but I'm sure they'd considered your line of thinking.

So:
Have secret talks to form a breakaway league - no points deducted
Have 110 charges against you - no points deducted
Go into administration- 9 points deducted
But go £19.5m over some arbitrary rule designed to keep the big clubs at the top and stop anyone competing - 10 points deducted.

There should be no appeal in case it drags on to next season when we may need the points more!

For balance, I don't doubt we have breached financial rules (and sadly I'm not sure the sky darlings did breach any rules as such with the super league - just morality).

The issue is the punishment. Extremely severe. That's where the corruption comes in.

But as I said earlier we'll still stay up - just might finish 15th instead of 13th.

People talking about City, it doesn't matter what's going on with them and has no bearing on our case, so they won't base the punishment on what could happen to them.

I think the appeal will probably bring it down to around 7 or 8 points, and if we can't gain those points on the likes of Burnley, Luton and Sheff Utd then we deserve to go down.

Back to City, they won't get done because a) they're too expensive for the Prem to lose and b) they'll be spending millions on lawyers while we've probably employed a 2-bit solicitor on Scottie Road

I still think the appeal will lead to a reduction, and possible suspension, of the penalty.

Craig @ 119
I suppose you could come to the conclusion that despite the Premier League being responsible for all of its clubs, it has hung Everton FC out to dry and opened the door for the likes of Burnley, Leeds et al to sue our club. I might be way out in my thinking, but it seems that the League has sacrificed Everton to save itself? Nothing to do with sporting integrity, more about money money money.

One ONE count against the Premier League's profit and sustainability rules.
Clubs are permitted to lose £105m over a three-year period and Everton admitted to being in breach of the profit and sustainability rules (PSR) for the period ending 2021-2022. The commission found in favour of the Premier League that Everton's losses during that period amounted to £124.5m
So £19.5M in that one year but nothing about the years counted in the 3 year period?

So if we are docked an immediate 10 points Man City, Chelsea, Notts Forest etc must be looking at how they will fit into National League North etc..

Only 2 points behind Luton and 12 behind Chelsea who must be shitting it now given the new allegations.

I really hope we appeal this and keep this in the press to make sure the other teams are treated as harshly as us.

TEN points, they are taking the piss out of us

I'm hoping an appeal will reduce it and lead to half of it being suspended but knowing our luck it will probably be doubled.

Chris @ 129
This thing will drag on, and it's the only reason I didn't want Everton to appeal the decision as according to Alan Myers, the appeal will be to an independent appeals commission - with a different set of people - and is expected to happen before the end of this season. - Source: Liverpool Echo.

In our FY 2021 accounts, we sought to exclude new sums from the adjusted earnings before tax.

1) 17.4 million on new interest charge being passed to Everton Stadium Developmenr on respect of a intercompany loan.

2) 5.8 million in respect to part of the Transfer Levy that was passed on by the PL in respect of Youth Development

3) 10 million for not suing player X (he's Icelandic!)

4) 44 million in respect of player trading losses we attributed to Covid.

Basis above we contended that our losses over 3 years were 87.1 million; but the PL rejected it these new sums.

Barry - I say appeal as surely we can always withdraw the appeal before it's conclusion?

let's remember that this is a charge the PL suddenly conjured out of nothing. It had all gone quiet, they had been supporting our contention about covid etc, but then suddenly they turned on a dime and went for the jugular. I'd love to know what went on there, cos they have opened up a world of pain here, all these crappy little clubs could bury us in litigation for years.

Premier League are corrupt.

The PL also asked for an expedited hearing so the proceedings could be concluded before the end of the 2022/23 season.

According to the Everton loving Mail, we got off lightly, and should have been docked 60 points!

Everton were £250m above what the Premier League permits clubs to have lost over the three year time frame - meaning that they technically should have been docked 60 points.

The ten point deduction they ended up with was crippling enough and means Sean Dyche's side will become embroiled in a tough relegation scrap having been reduced down to four points.

Everton strongly deny the breaches and plan to appeal the verdict.

Should Everton have been deducted SIXTY points?

Almost as though they were determined to relegate us, Steve...

Why am I not suprised, do we ever get any favourable decisions.

The league is a crap competition in any case, it shouldnt be called a competition.
Appeal, at least it will hold the process up, I think.

We will stop up in any case I'm confident of that, it will make the manager and the players even more determined to win games.

As for us supporters, its even more encouragement to roar them home.

The appeal will do squat. There's a reason why the point deduction is immediate. What are they going to do, add us a few points back. It's all planned and orchestrated

If there was ever a time for strength in adversity it's now. We have absolutely the right man for the right time and we need to get behind that group of players like never before.

This is the League wanting to show it can flex its muscles so that the government doesn't intervene and start to make the decisions. Note the relevant minister is already charged with looking at how such issues should be handled and who by.

Though Everton did accept in an amended answer to the Commission that it had exceeded PSR but less than the PL asserted, we'd co-operated and had now shown a positive trend in addressing its PSR obligations.

One question that nobody has either asked or answered satisfactorily is this: who on the Premier League briefed the media in the first place about the potential for a points deduction?

Steve, paras 131-132 seems to not accept Everton's case re mitigating factors. Quite damning.

We have to appeal, however, it would seen unlikely that we will be able to overturn the decision in its entirety so we will be hoping that the scale of the points deduction is reduced. But it's no longer a level playing field and it's likely that a number of clubs will be well pleased and would argue strongly that the decision should stand.

In the meantime it's an impossible position for the Manager and his small squad who now face an unbelievable amount of added pressure. Neither the Club or the Premier League come away from this whole process without fault, but I cannot help thinking that they have hit us so severely to send out a message, but this is clearly no way to run any form of sporting competition were the essence should always be that each every competitor is treated the same.

Our only hope is that the Club can put together a professional appeal, and we can draw in support from the World of Football, The Major Sponsors and the Sporting World in general. If all that fails I suppose we will do as we always do get behind the Manager and the Team, turn up the volume and call out every indiscretion from the opposition. But for now God help us !

When you think about it this is also a £10m fine as well as the ten point deduction.

If each league place is worth 1.9m in prize money this possibly set us back five or six places.

Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough?

This will galvanise the fans, the players and the club. We are "One Everton"

10 points for One breach - Beware Chelsea and Man City (but they have better and more expensive lawyers).

Immediate deduction - a power play by the PL to try and undermine the Governments desire for an independent regulator as announced through King Charlie last week.

I say, fight the ruling through appeal and have it reduced, but still imposed now. Draw a line under it.

Then the real fun starts. Beat Man U and get out of the bottom three, go on an undefeated run or minimal losses and move back to 13th,14th by Christmas., top half in 2024 and a trophy!

Take the legal challenges from the relegated clubs and tie them up in red tape for 3 years, they'll run out of steam before we do.

COYB

The case notes are fascinating reading.
Clearly we have made fundamental accountancy errors and been run badly, but the discussion around the stadium monies not being able to be capitalised smells to high heaven to me.

We have clearly sold top players in this time, but equally this shows the circular nature of this regulation which is supposedly designed to protect pl clubs. If everyone else knows we need to sell desperately then our negotiation position is hamstrung from the start. That's not financial fair play surely?

I also don't really understand how an institution designed to protect the pl clubs is being so hardline against its own members. Especially when it's clear we have tried to be transparent and offer valid ‘get out' options for us/them?

The player x point feels like a really salient issue. That's a 50m cost player plus wages who has had to be written off due to criminal charges… that were subsequently dropped. How on earth is that NOT a valid mitigating factor?
Also, who is player Y? DCL?

We should ban all Premier League insignia within Goodison Park, including any badges or initiatives that mention the organisation.

We've been stitiched up beyond belief here with a punishment that is so disproportionate to the supposed offence.

Never a better season for a 10 point deduction the deadwood around us have never been so dead - we will escape the bottom 3 and be more robust for the new stadium move.

We have been incredibly lucky considering the horrendous jiggery pokery of Mosh and Usi and the savvy thing now would be not to appeal. Let created precedent suck in City, Chelsea and potentially a few others and the game might stop being all about money allowing us to challenge again.

Looking at the detail of it now it seems ridiculous and disproportionate. We claimed to be inside the allowed losses of £105 million over three years under PL supervision. However when the 2022 accounts were submitted they now say that some exclusions we claimed relating to stadium loans were not allowed. This then increased our three year losses to £124.5 million. Overall seems a bit of a technicality and therefore the outcome is wildly disproportionate and unjust.

Fans of relegated clubs are crying, neglecting the fact that even the commission agreed that we've not benefited at all from a sporting perspective.

Idiots.

136. The size of the points deduction is to be determined by Everton's culpability. There is no fixed formula to be applied.

I find that amazing - it is entirely down to the discretion of the commission as a specialist panel.

This is what happens when you have corrupt fools running a football club.
If you have corrupt clever people running your club it's a different story.

We beat United at a Goodison on blue fire and smoke next week.

We beat Forest.

That's us wiping it down to 4 points.

And the appeal gets us reduced to 6 points.

We carry on and we win what is in front of us.

More than ever, we march. Loud and Proud and absolutely shove it in their faces.

And when we stay up, we will, I will stand outside their plush London Headquarters.

Keep going blues. We are not done no matter what they try to do to us.

We are Everton fuck them we will be on the way up on 26th when we smash the media darlings. I think the players will show how they feel about it on the pitch.COYMB.

Steve @153
The commission could have relegated Everton immediately had they so wished. If you subscribe to the Mail's theory we got off lightly! It makes me even more annoyed that Everton threw nine possible points away at Goodison at the start of the season.

A different appeals panel, of course, will review the whole matter independently of the PL Commission, and including any mitigating factors (relevant to the size of the penalty, presumably). But as the Commission's findings already include a consideration of mitigating factors, then I'm less than confident on an appeal being successful on such substantive matters (and I guess Everton won't be appealing on any procedural grounds?).

We need to go back and sue the prem for the admitted var mistake against city. Cost is 1 place and 2.5 mill

Former Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher, who grew up as an Everton fan, has posted this on X, formerly Twitter: "The 10 point deduction for Everton is excessive and not right, considering they have been working with the PL about this for the last couple of years. Would it have been better to be evasive and try to drag it out like other clubs?

"No doubt relegated clubs will have put big pressure on the PL to deal with Everton, but when you consider 6 clubs tried to leave the PL and there was no sanction at all it doesn't feel right.

"Until other clubs are sanctioned Everton will feel they are being used to show there is no need for an independent regulator, and they are right."

Michael...149 I would go further ( appreciate this is knee jerk and would never happen but hey ho )
No participation in those pointless post match interviews.
No sales of tickets to away fans
Field weakened sides against Chelsea and City rivals ( yeah, even them )
Turn the hot water off when Leeds and Burnley turn up and charge them for their beer in the players lounge.
Ban the likes of Oliver Holt from the press box...Indeed, refuse all press access including TV.
Feck the lot of them !

Steve #153 I'm equally sursprised at para 136 (no fixed formula for the size of penalty; up to the Commisssion to decide on that). Having said that, they're thus starting to set a precednt and a form of case law? This could in the end hurt Man City and Chelsea even more?

And Carragher's last para is spot on.

Professional Football and sport in general is now so corrupt it will turn many people away from the sport.

High profile clubs and players get away with serious morally corrupt actions yet we get potentially relegated for 19.5m most of which any competent accountant would be able to justify as legitimate.

I would love to know who presented our case and why we didn't instruct top lawyers like City did.

Despite the fact many see our uptick in form will make up those points there is still a chance this will demoralize the players and the club as any chance of a top 10 finish has been taken away.

I hope there is now a full investigation into the finances of all clubs as I am Dick of us being made the scapegoats.

Now for the more serial offenders you shithouses.

"On the three previous occasions when a Premier League club has had as few as four points after 12 games, Everton in 1994-95 were the only side to stay up."

And we'll be staying up this season too.

Will @165
Don't forget we might also lift a trophy at Wembley too!

Spot on Alan, we're too damn placid at times

The Mail article if read in full alludes that the penalty is in line with the PL handbook.
Six points with one point more for every £5m over the allowed losses. We seem to be charged with being £24.5m over?

And para 135 concludes by saying "The issue is not the form of sanction, but its extent".

Para 135 in full: "We have no doubt that the circumstances of this case are such that only a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction would be appropriate. A financial penalty for a club that enjoys the support of a wealthy owner is not a sufficient penalty. We agree with the Premier League that the requirements of punishment, deterrence, vindication of compliant clubs, and the protection of the integrity of the sport demand a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction. The issue is not the form of sanction, but its extent."

Brent, that is an invitation to appeal the extent of the points deduction.

That should be the focus now.

Of course Everton are the only club to have done this ????. Trying to tear the league apart by leaving was just a minor thing, and showing a league table with a club on 4 pts with 4 wins and 2 draws in the bottom 2 just makes a mockery of it.
The sickening point is they have done it, have they made a preference for this decision or are other clubs going to be looked at with as much scrutiny ????> I doubt it.
The problem it is done and now the club and its magnificent supporters are going to have to role their sleeves up, get behind not only the team but the club itself, and get EVERTON F.C. back where they belong and 2 fingers up to the league and show how strong we are, and the comment once made by B.K. you have picked on the wrong people, a fact.
I live in Canada, but I am that pissed off with this I had to go for a walk to calm down, and here"s hoping that the team provides us with a happy Christmas.

Brent @ 169
We may have a wealthy owner, but he's disinterested and has left the club begging for money to keep us afloat. If the club didn't gain an advantage on the sporting front, why should we be penalised on the sporting front?

Barry @ 166,

it's not too late for a one trophy deduction - we might have to win two :-)

The last bit of EFC statement is interesting.

"The Club will also monitor with great interest the decisions made in any other cases concerning the Premier League's Profit and Sustainability Rules."

Is this also a coincidence that this decision has come so soon after Bill Kenwright's death?

Steve #170 yes, agree entirely, Steve.

I find the Commission's report is so damning in its criticism of Everton's handling of this case. So, also of interest...para 138 related to Everton's (naive?) overspend in the transfer market...; and again a damning comment about Everton's lack of frankness re stadiium interest.

"We take into account the fact that Everton's PSR trend over the relevant four years is positive, but cannot ignore the fact that the failure to comply with the PSR regime was the result of Everton irresponsibly
taking a chance that things [league position - my note] would turn out positively. Further, Everton was less than frank in its dealings with the Premier League over the stadium interest issue. The reality is that Everton failed to manage its finances so as to operate within the generous threshold of £105 million. Its mismanagement led to that threshold being exceeded by £19.5 million."

Hello Fellow Blues - I have just done an interview on Capital Radio - it will go out mid/late afternoon I think - I mentioned “ can of worms” - Saudi League soon to be and we are not a “ biggie” for them - I said that in my opinion this lies at the feet of that Charlatan/Buffoon Moshiri - BUT - I finished on a positive - I said I was more worried 2 months ago when we were bottom - I said that what Dyche has achieved over the past few months makes me think he can don't again - we - Manager/ Players and Fans need to be behind each other and be supportive [excluding any of those fools who are supposedly in charge) - after Dyche I trust not one of them.
Up The Blues - Cosmic Bluetiful Grooves All The Way - It's us and them now but it's only us.

Barry #172 " If the club didn't gain an advantage on the sporting front, why should we be penalised on the sporting front?"

Barry, I wouldn't disagree. I think the Commission's case is that Everton sought to gain an unfair advantage, and although, as the Commission notes (para 137), they finished 16th not the projected 6th, even that 16th was an advantage over the relegated clubs who they argue played by the rules.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the Commission's statements, Barry, just noting them.

I honestly don't know where to start. Disappointed, no. That's what I feel when Tesco make a substitution on my home delivery.
I'm absolutely livid. This from an organisation that can't even recruit competent match officials.
Police's its own many inadequacies. And doesn't have the guts to do anything, when these officials are found guilty of gross incompetence.
They are rotten to the core. I think there should be an investigation into the running of the PL.
(Not sure if that's short for PLonkers)
I will be there supporting my team as always. I know every supporter will have the ground rocking. We will never give in. COYB

George@176. So pleased you posted today. Now I know things aren't so bad.

Absolutely fuming about this. How is a ten point deduction for a paltry overspend (over above what is allowed) of £19.5M fair? The club by the way, refute this amount, saying it was £9M. I assume now that Man City and Chelsea are going to get way above the punishment that we've had, possible demotion to the National League and stripped of every domestic trophy they've won.

Looking at the league table as it stands right now, we will have more than enough to finish above the bottom three. Barry # 113 above says that Jordan Pickford should throw a few into his own net tonight, as a “Fingers Up”, and I would also go further, by refusing the Handshake before the kick off in future games. Simply walk out of the tunnel and head straight to one end of the pitch.

George (176) You are definitely entitled to your opinion that this mess lies at the feet of that Charlatan/ Buffoon Moshiri,your words not mine, but I think that Kenwright is much more culpable than the man who cleared up all the debts and mess that Kenwright and his board had made over a much longer period than Moshiri, who will likely lose money, maybe Usmanov's, while Kenwright gained plenty with more to come for his dependents in the future from his remaining shares and it is still debatable how much he put in to buy the them in the first place.

Barry #71, no chance of Webb resigning, it's now his job and that of his incompetent PGMOL officials, to ensure we don't get enough points to stay up.

What's the bet we don't get a penalty or VAR decision go in our favour for the rest of the season?