06/09/2023 13comments  |  Jump to last

Lyndon, Paul and Ell discuss the incomplete summer transfer business, the saga around Demarai Gray and ponder whether Everton have enough in sheer numbers to get them through to the next window.

They also look back at the games at Doncaster and Sheffield United which yielded the team's first goals of the season and recall other notable fallings out between players and Toffees managers in the past. 

Note: there is an editing cock-up around 42 mins in. Apologies!


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Reader Comments (13)

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Ste Traverse
1 Posted 07/09/2023 at 14:59:14
One infamous manager/player fall out that didn't get mentioned was the one from 25 years ago between Gary Speed and Howard Kendall. Many rumours surrounded it but none were ever confirmed by either party and I suppose with neither sadly with us anymore, one that we'll probably never get the truth about.
Lyndon Lloyd
2 Posted 07/09/2023 at 18:21:56
Not sure how I didn't even think of that one, Ste, although it would have been an uncomfortable one to talk about, not least because of the various rumours you allude to.

I remember how shocking it was at the time because Speed was Mr Dependable up to that point.

Peter Moore
3 Posted 07/09/2023 at 18:45:34
Indeed, the demon drink allegedly infiltrating Bellefield etc.

I recently was listening to TalkShite featuring ex-RS Danny Murphy. He mentioned how he learnt, through treatment for his own addiction issues, that such issues are diseases that afflict certain people due to the natural predisposition or suchlike to become addicts.

I don't know, fortunately, how easy it is for some to cross the line from enjoying a bevy, to needing one for breakfast and whether that applied in this case.

I have no idea if the rumours are true and agree: best let sleeping legends be. So sad to lose Howard at an age that was still young in today's terms.

Absolutely tragic for Gary Speed to end his life so early in such a way. I have no idea of the issues or illnesses mental or otherwise that made him feel it the right option at the time. The phrase, 'Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem', may apply to him, I have no idea.

Such a shock. Very hard to process or try to really understand such a thing. May they both be resting in peace.

The joys and memories they both gave many thousands are a special gift they left behind. Treasured by so many and ever missed also.

May the near future unearth Evertonian playing and managing successes that bear comparison with some of the best of yesteryear.

Paul Kossoff
4 Posted 07/09/2023 at 19:26:06
Just looked at our fixtures for this season, I would say 37 points. If we are good and lucky. With the forwards we have now hopefully the goals will come. Coyb 👮👮👮
Dave Abrahams
5 Posted 07/09/2023 at 19:30:48
Lyndon (2),

It might be better to let sleeping dogs lie where the Kendall/ Speed affair is concerned but I think Gary Speed was Mr Dependable when he left Everton and for the rest of his football career.

He was certainly the innocent party when he left Everton to join Newcastle and kept his council about the affair even when he was booed by Everton's crowd every time he came back to play at Goodison.

Contradicting myself there but fairs fair with regards to Gary Speed.

Peter Moore
6 Posted 07/09/2023 at 21:23:25
I remember being in Bangkok for a pre season tournament 2005 (as I lived not far away then) and Gary Speed was at Bolton then.

The players were close to the Everton fans when they walked out at the Rajamankala stadium. Everton, Bolton, Man City and Thai U23 national team tournament. Crap games, crap atmosphere, crazy hot, just some Chang sponsorship related matches ahead of us crashing out of Europe early doors (Collina assisted..)

Anyway, I remember Gary Speed was near our crowd and was really happy when we were singing, "Oooh Gary Gary...Gary, Gary, Gary Gary shithouse Speed!' He took it as friendly banter and laughed it off.

A talented footballer and a classy person too. 👏🏼

Raymond Fox
7 Posted 07/09/2023 at 22:25:15
Paul 4, nice try but its nigh on impossible to predict, I hope your right though it could be just enough to stop up, another 3 or 4 pts would be good.

We are going to be 2nd favs against both Arsenal and Brentford in the next 2 games and if we lose those as we may well do, the table will look a little scary.

I hope some of our fans don't start to panic because we do promise to be much more potent in attack, I cant see Burnley, Luton, Sheffield, Wolves or Bournemouth finishing above us.

John Raftery
8 Posted 07/09/2023 at 22:25:58
The earliest falling out I can recall was between Harry Catterick and Roy Vernon during the USA tour of 1961.

Catterick sent Vernon home from New York as a disciplinary measure. It was quite a sensation at the time.

Ben King
9 Posted 08/09/2023 at 18:13:09
Great pod as usual - thanks

I’d like to see DCL alongside Beto. Both quick & strong + good in the air. Our wingers can supply crosses and the 2 midfielders can sit and stop us being so easy to play thru

Agree that Garner needs to play in the middle to dictate the game and pick a pass. Onana alongside him would complement

Dave Abrahams
10 Posted 08/09/2023 at 21:14:47
John (8), Going back even further, maybe before your time, when Cliff Britton decided he couldn’t carry on as Everton manager after an argument with one of the directors the whole squad signed a letter asking him to reconsider his decision which included the signature of one player who allegedly never took to the manager, that player was believed to be Wally Fielding.
Paul Ferry
11 Posted 09/09/2023 at 04:11:59
John (8):

"the USA tour of 1961".

I'd love to see someone doing a thread on that. I had no idea.

A lovely post Peter (Moore).

John Raftery
12 Posted 09/09/2023 at 18:31:00
Dave (10) Yes, before my time, just!

Paul (11) For more on that tour and indeed the complete history of the club's relationship with the North American game, I strongly recommend ‘Toffee Soccer' by David France, Rob Sawyer and Darren Griffiths. Really with those co-authors no recommendation is required. The book is a weighty tome covering all the matches we have ever played over there.

It includes an account of every match we played in the 1961 tournament and provides a little more detail about the Vernon incident.

It seemed that Harry Catterick, who had only taken over in April, was looking to make an example of a player in order to send out a message about who was in charge. Who better to start with than the club's best player, leading scorer and captain; a player who was probably just a bit too cocky for Harry's liking?

John Raftery
13 Posted 09/09/2023 at 18:50:48
A correction to the above. I should have written ‘future captain' in the reference to Vernon. Bobby Collins was of course captain until sold the following year.

Gavin Buckland's book ‘Money Can't Buy Us Love' about Everton in the sixties mentions that when he recruited Catterick to replace Johnny Carey, John Moores wanted a disciplinarian who would crack the whip. Sending Vernon home served that purpose.

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