Dreadful Everton eliminated as Luton plunder winner at the death

All quiet on BBC and on other forums, they pity us.

Hopefully it also puts to bed the notion of Beto and Calvert-Lewin upfront. Dreadful combination.

The atmosphere today was as flat as the Palace replay but the players gave us nothing to get excited about.

Everton – ruining weekends since 1878!

We desperately need Doucoure back and we need Gana Gueye too.

That's all there is to say.

What a horrible side (Luton) are, and we weren't much better. As for the disgrace of a Referee (again) and his bent partner acting as a linesman, should we expect anything approaching impartiality?

The greatest cheers, and quite rightly so, were for the introduction of our ex-player, Andros Townsend (wish he still was) and on his substitution. Probably their only player who treated it as a game of football.

Really felt a degree of confidence before this one, but the only highlight was meeting John McFarlane, Jon Harding (Bristol Blue), Neil Copeland and Stephen Vincent in the Harlech. Also bumping into Dave Abrahams in Bullens Road.

Starting to fear for the remainder of our fixtures in the Premier League, especially our inexplicably poor home form (or lack of it). Chermiti looked half decent when introduced, albeit too late again to have any impact!

Should I be?

Selling Lukaku, the talismanic 25 goal a season striker not building around him and then the list of abysmal forwards we have pissed millions away on since.

Tosun
Rondon
Kean
Beto

It's the stuff of nightmares it really is, that this club can't sign a striker worthy.

Keep signing players that can't score goals then you struggle most season's, that's a recipe for disaster.

The two centre forwards and 2 wingers were dreadful.

The need for reinforcements is clearly obvious..

More worrying than the loss is the style (?) of play. Does anyone else in the league play the sort of hoofball we do?

The forwards are atrocious though I thought Chermiti looked promising, but the midfield 4 is the worst I have seen since I got my first season ticket in 1977.

I fear we are in real trouble – whether we get any points back or not.

The points deduction and charges need to be put to bed and concluded imminently, not next month or in three months,

Secondly, the takeover also needs firming up. Both the off-field issues have created absolute uncertainty which clearly does have an impact on-field.

If these two issues can be resolved relatively quickly, at least Dyche can start working towards a target for the remainder of the season.

We are stuck with dreadful forwards and a midfield that offers nothing.

Can't keep rolling out the excuses that Calvert-Lewin isn't getting chances, the two Maidstone strikers had two chances all game at Ipswich and they buried both competently.

You can't expect to get and miss 10 chances a game like our forwards think you are going to get.

What few attributes Calvert-Lewin had before his injuries have long since diminished, there's no athletism there anymore, he can't jump now.

Beto is just basically Niasse second coming.

He must have slipped over 3 or 4 times on top of those 7 touches. He did manage to win 1 out of 4 arial duels and 1 out of 3 tackles mind you… and he did manage 2 passes too.

I don't see anything, I doubt our scouts saw anything before signing him either because he's got barely any experience at top-level football.

The fact we try to clutch at straws with some unknown kid says how desperate we are for a hero.

That might have been the case once upon a time. The "best of the rest" sides that Moyes assembled with the likes of Cahill, Fellaini, Saha and Yakubu. So too with the Martinez Everton of Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barkley etc. And Silva with Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Bernard, Gomes etc etc.

Unfortunately it's just not the case now.

I think fans also view someone like Beto as a big money signing from a glamorous league and therefore expect goals. Unfortunately, £25M is peanuts these days – especially when you consider we pay pretty much nothing up front.

Beto got 10 goals (and 2 assists) in 34 appearances in Serie A last season. Serie A is really not what it was, either. He's a 6- to 8-goal-a-season striker in the Premier League and was bought because we absolutely had to buy cover for Calvert-Lewin (similar physical attributes) and because he was available without upfront payment.

Carlton Morris got 20 goals (and 6 assists) in 44 Championship games last season. Elijah Adebayo got 10 goals (and 4 assists) in 49 last season. These guys are certainly Beto standard players – maybe better. You'd certainly struggle to buy either of them for £25M.

Lokonga, Barkley, Doughty and Mengi are all good footballers too. We all know Townsend has quality and work rate too.

We're really missing quality at right full-back, right-midfield and Number 10. That lack of quality hurts us big time because, whilst we're good without the ball, we find it extremely hard to fashion chances.

Personally I'd have gone with a front three of Beto, Danjuma and Dobbin today because it's mobile and fast. However, it's hardly Messi, Suarez and Neymar, is it? So it's not like I have hit upon some genius formula that Dyche has overlooked.

Home games are going to continue to be difficult unfortunately, until we can stock up more talented footballers. At the moment, we're better without the ball than we are with it.

I feel you have initiated a response regarding Chermiti, you seemed to say he only had 7 touches etc, but it was his control, that impressed me.

As John McF always says, we all go to a football match yet see things differently. It doesn't necessarily mean I am, or you either, right, but it was my perception!

We never looked secure in midfield and what little service was supplied to the front players was of the hit-and-hope variety.

We lost in the cup. It's not a big deal, and it doesn't mean Luton are a better side. We've had 10 points deducted and we're still ahead of them in the league.

Let's not read too much into this. In the same way, we shouldn't read too much into wins against decent opposition.

We created absolutely nothing and the best team won..

Sorry to say, but this Dyche hasn't got a clue. Can someone please tell me what his tactics were today?

This shite has been going on for years now and our new owners need to address these issues when (if) they get the green light from the Premier League!

We need a goal scorer fast, a right-winger with pace and skill, and a central midfielder who is creative and chips in with goals too... and the whole club needs to be a lot fucking braver or we will sink without a trace!

Chris 12 - Chermiti brought energy, closed down properly, and might have had an assist if anyone had gambled at the back stick. Not much, admittedly, and you'd expect a young sub to bring energy, but then Derek did only say 'half-decent'.

Pass me a straw right now and I'll happily clutch it.

I was expecting better from Calvert-Lewin today. He had someone up there with him for a change, playing against a team with their back-up keeper in goal, in a winnable game. Today had to be the day he put in a performance and broke his barren streak.

What did we get from him? Unless I'm mistaken, he didn't have any shots. He didn't win any headers. All I saw was someone going through the motions – maybe playing within himself to avoid injuries. He coasted through at 60%.

I have to say, the whole team looked leggy. This is understandable with our squad and the injuries we have had.

Today, I feel the manager could have freshened it up more. Surely Dobbin could have had a run out? And Danjuma and Chermiti came on in the 78th minute? Why so late yet again?

As stated above, the strikers and wingers were woeful. We need something to freshen them up so that they don't look like strangers on the pitch. Can Thelwell pull a rabbit out the hat in the next 4 or 5 days?

Going forward, we look boring and predictable…

I didn't think a single player had a good game today, to be honest. Far too many mistakes and unforced errors from every single one of them:

From Mykolenko slipping trying to do a Cryuff turn…

To Branthwaite flying in with a sliding tackle and getting bullied by their big centre-forward and missing…

To Tarkowski pinging aimless balls…

To Virginia doing his Pickford impersonation with his hoofs to no one…

To Beto looking like he'd won a competition to play a game…

To Harrison constantly being dispossessed…

To McNeil hitting aimless balls into the box…

Through to Garner failing to beat the first man on nearly every set-piece.

And finally special mention to Dyche for his lack of substitutions until far too late in the game.

Having players play like that has an effect on the performance of other players. The goals against were both from balls that should have been cleared.

I am actually glad Everton are out of all cup competitions. Dyche is only capable of handling the league fixtures and the players are not up to extra games.

Anyways, Beto and Chermiti got extra game time.

Now that would imply we were constantly 'under the cosh' — not so; it is easy to be wise retrospectively. We have all done it, but it was one of those games, with yet another imbecile of a referee and his crew that set the tone for an exceedingly uphill battle.

Q: Are there any decent and impartial referees in the Premier League? Which purportedly is the best in the World!

Please name them, because I can't think of one! Another case of the tail wagging the dog, their incorrect decisions can determine a club's future, should it be for a title, cup, next round, relegation battle etc. Who are they answerable to after a match?

All very well rescinding a yellow or red card, but it will never alter anything else!

No, I wouldn't trade squads with Luton either. But I would be happy to have players like Adebayo, Morris, Doughty, Mengi, Barkley and Lokonga in the squad. Townsend too.

These are all good players.

However, I've noticed that most of these teams have a large number of players who can control a ball, pass a ball accurately, find, and run, into space and shoot, with some degree of power and accuracy.

But never mind… man for man, we've got better players on paper.

We've long been a mongrel club to most of the world and, whilst we may all take huge umbrage at that, the facts speak for themselves (see our most recent financial positioning, where we're bested by Palace, Fulham, Villa, Leeds, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City and United, Newcastle and West Ham).

We literally own next to nothing that constitutes an attractive club to fans, players, agents or the media. Instead, we are repeatedly swamped by mediocrity, organised by those ostensibly in charge of our club, and every season we see it plain as day on the pitch.

There's a large white elephant being built on a really, really down-at-heel dockland area that absolutely no-one knows who's going to pay for or, if we're relegated or sent into administration, what the hell it might ever be used for.

And we still have hokum-central 777 Partners circling us like the ruthless sharks they are.

"Good times" indeed.

I just wish there was one club out there who'd persistently made such a bollox of themselves for decades before recapturing even a glimmer of nationally recognised success – you know, a club other desperate clubs contact for advice on how to be "a well-run club".

But there isn't.

Never was.

It's just bullshit we were all expected to swallow – and too many of us did just that.

Players supported to be doing their job.

Crosses and passes were woeful. Everton do not only have to beat the other team, they have to beat themselves.

If some of the players had to look at their performances, they would be either embarrassed or wouldn't care.

Why would we need midfield players who can make a pass when our game plan has always been hoof it up to the bloke up front and then hope somebody can catch up to him before the ball is lost? And am I glad that we are out of the Cup and can concentrate on the League? Not particularly… but then I do tend to wonder if we've not just lost the chance of some glory but also some much needed prize money. Anybody any idea how much a couple more rounds might have earned us?

Meanwhile, back at the Selling, sorry, Transfer Window.....

It was universally unpopular the links to Martinez but apparently we were actually quite close and going to push through with that until Moshiri succumbed to fan power and gave it to Frank Lampard.

I'm guessing the football now attacking-wise anyway would have been gung-ho if Bobby had got the gig, but we'd be conceding goals everywhere.

Same with the Marcelo Bielsa appointment which was close too.

It's atrocious the football under Dyche at times but there are not many top sides that most of our players would get anywhere near other than Pickford, Tarkowski and Branthwaite, maybe at a push Mykolenko.

The rest wouldn't get anywhere near a Top 10 outfit.

Chermiti and Cannon are two more players who may have a future in the game, but I doubt they'll get much opportunity at Goodison. Experience is marvellous if it is good experience, not just if it is used in preference to giving younger players a chance.

What with injuries and loss of form to key players (and no owner) it looks like it's going to be another nail-biting end to the season.

There's no doubt you're right about Dyche and young players. I just feel I should clarify that Ellis Simms joined Coventry City in July, and Tom Cannon joined Leicester City in September.

Ellis has played in 31 games this season and scored 3 goals; Tom had a back injury that kept him out until November, since when he has played in 9 games and scored 3 goals.

Simms signed for Coventry last summer, mate.

To be fair he doesn't look like a top-flight forward and he didn't in the games I saw him last season either.

Clutching at straws just because players have left but people forget they weren't very good when they were here either.

Dyche has to reinvigorate the players, and find a different system with the players who are available.

Aside from the points deduction, we have to keep fighting, for who knows – we might win some points back on appeal, and stop any further points deduction, if we can.

Beto getting grappled with inside the box, no foul; he moves a yard outside the box and the ref gives a foul!

McNeil receiving a high studs-up tackle which was worse than the one Calvert-Lewin got sent off for… not even a yellow.

Branthwaite got a push before slipping to let their guy in, no foul. Mykolenko then forced the guy to shoot from a tight angle, cutting off the square pass to the striker — probably our best bit of defending all game.

We didn't deserve to win but I am not sure Luton deserved much either. It was a low-quality game.

I am convinced the refs get told to let things go more in the cup games.

Dyche must know now that our only formation is 4-4-1-1. Doucoure is key to this with Harrison being the next in line for the central role with maybe Danjuma on the wing.

People commenting on Simms and Cannon. Unless you are living under a rock, we need to sell players. Getting £16M for both homegrown players looks better on PSR and paying nothing upfront with the two Portuguese replacements.

We need to bring a loan player in before the window shuts to try and freshen things up. My fear is Calvert-Lewin is due an injury and – whether you rate him or not – without him, we are dead in the water.

I would take a draw on Tuesday.

I don't see how you think Calvert-Lewin is our saviour, he has done fuck-all all season, so the impending injury he is due might be the thing that keeps us up if we give someone else a proper runout rather than the 5 minutes they get.

First goal VAR looked at, Calvert-Lewin ducked!

Beto could have been given, should have been given and let VAR confirm but wasn't.

The key to your loan player coming in unfortunately is based on Branthwaite and Onana.

We have no money and we have to approach clubs who can afford these players and do pre-summer agreements that they can buy them at a fixed fee on the proviso they loan us now, and pay salaries to players that will get us out of the shit we are in.

I don't know what they do in training all week, but it's definitely not learning to pass the ball.

"You can't expect to get and miss 10 chances a game like our forwards think you are going to get."

I had to read that one twice. If I'm a current Everton striker, I'm wondering if I'm going to get 10 chances in a season.

The vitriol aimed at Chermeti and Beto really disappoints me. Beto (when he gets a chance) is used as a workhorse and is rarely given any sort of service in the box.

Chermeti barely gets a look in. A young man in a foreign land trying to score goals out of absolutely nothing. I can't remember him having a single chance. Yet some are already dismissing him.

At least Calvert-Lewin knew he was going to be starved of the sort of meaningful service other strikers expect. These two must wonder what the fuck they have signed up for.

We don't know how good (or bad) these two are. We may never find out in this set-up.

For the sake of those hammering the forwards repeatedly, let's have a re-cap: Sean Dyche (and the managers before him) abandoned expansive free-flowing football because he (they) believe with the players we have, we have a better chance of survival without the ball and trying to catch teams on the break. Some Evertonians have put their trust in that; some haven't.

For the life of me, I don't see how hammering away at forwards in a team which regularly has less than 30% possession makes any sense at all.

The same people hammered away at Anthony Gordon, he had "no end product". He was a kid, for fuck's sake… working his plums off. Now he plays in a team which at least wants the ball and he is flying.

We are in complete survival mode. Our forwards have less to feed on than any other forwards.

Maybe we should get a move on. Sign those two boys from Maidstone before all the other Premier League clubs who are beating down their door get in first.

The quality of our attacking football is below Sunday pub stuff. Movement poor, no one prepared to shoot, no one good enough to play a killer pass. Desperate.

Given his ability and experience, he may be worth a shout. He can play many positions.

Fully agree. Of all the many things about Everton that do my head in, the inability of our players to make simple passes is No 1. It applies to every single one of them.

With the exception of probably James Rodriguez, and Sigurdsson, then you've got to go back to the days of players like Pienaar, Arteta, and maybe Barry, Barkley under Martinez since the basics were performed well at this club.

He's experienced (Dyche loves that), can play multiple positions (Dyche loves that), has a bit of nark (we need that).

Perhaps he's the man to keep us safe this year. Not the man to take us forward (unless it's from the Championship courtesy of the Premier League).

He put in some good crosses and brought a good save from the Watford keeper. I will be happy if he returns to Goodison for us to sell Godfrey.

Any decent team would treat the fact that we have the ball as a gift and would work it around until we were in a position from where we could move forward and attack.

Other teams stroke the ball, our lads treat the ball as if they have a grudge against it and want to kick it to death. That approach is becoming ingrained and will lead us to be an anti-football team. Those teams always end up in the Championship.

I believe that he is more useful than Ben Godfrey and, if the switch would generate some much-needed funds, then it could be a good one.

Thats an interesting observation, and slightly related – the Burnley fans' chant was "Anti-Football".

Similarly when we have a throw-in down near the opposition's box, we almost always throw it backwards and end up giving it to the keeper to kick long. I mean seriously!

Seemed like a bunch of individuals out there – no cohesion or teamplay or support of one another... how can you ever win anything with that kind of a mood in the camp???

So much has already been said on here on how poor we are but I'd like to add my views.

Someone at the start of this thread was bemoaning the fact that we have been beaten twice by Luton this season. Would anyone seriously bet on it becoming three times when we go down there?? Luton are a better side than us. They've got some momentum and in all probability will be above us before too long looking at our upcoming games.

The flurry of results back in November were clearly a flash in the pan. We look a million miles off getting 3 wins in 3 games again. If we don't get the 10 points back (which we won't) we are royally fucked. There's no way without them we are reaching 36 points.

Dyche – it seems he's beyond blame in some people's eyes. I see comments that we are lucky to have him!! Let's be honest: we have him because nobody else wanted him. Out of work for 12 months, I don't recall any other clubs beating his door down to take over at their club. We took him because we were desperate and skint and he was ‘free'.

His tactics are 30 years behind the times and perfectly summed up with our kick-off routine. Garner plays the ball back direct to the goalkeeper who hoofs it 80 yards to nobody in particular and straight away we are on the defensive. Sunday League teams have more idea how to take a kick-off!!!

We all know we don't have much money so why do we persist in blowing what we have on absolute stiffs? Beto looked impressive on his debut against a League 2 side and has been pretty awful ever since. God bless the lad for trying but he's not a Premier League footballer while he's got a hole in his ass!!

Once again, we seem to be pinning our survival hopes on a Number 9 who hasn't scored in 15 games and doesn't look like scoring but can't be dropped as the alternative is the bull in a china shop, Beto!!

Our superstar midfielder Onana congratulates himself when he wins a throw-in on the half-way line!! A throw-in, for fuck's sake!!! I wish he was half as good as he thinks he is!!

Branthwaite is the only real bonus of the season. We will have to enjoy him while he's here because he'll be sold out of necessity in the summer (if not the coming week). Then we will have Keane back in the side. Oh great!!

Would it surprise anyone if, after Virginia's performances against Palace and yesterday, that the club think it's safe(ish) to cash in Pickford?? Funds have to be raised ASAP as administration is peeping above the horizon. Especially if the shysters at 777 Partners don't get Premier League approval.

As for the upcoming relegation battle, if you were a supporter of those sides around us, would you seriously fear playing us home or away? Toothless, no creativity, reliant on not conceding, with the best kicker of the ball being the goalkeeper!!

Grim days ahead. Really grim. We are the new Southampton. Flirt with relegation season after season until it catches up on us. Anyone looking forward to the last game of the season? Away to Arsenal!!

You make an interesting comment about yesterday possibly being the last ever FA Cup game to be played at Goodison.

Brings it home that the new stadium is just round the corner.

But then again, there wasn't exactly a queue down Goodison Road of hopeful applicants.

But I'm pretty sure that those paid handsomely by the club to head up the recruitment of players and coaching staff could have shown more ambition than a Sunday league manager with two recent relegations at the top of his CV.

Start Danjuma for McNeil. I'd start Dobbin upfront, the lad's quick with good movement, he's not static like Calvert-Lewin and Beto.

Start Hunt or McKenzie in midfield. Go 4-4-1-1. Let's have something bloody different.

We all know he'll never go with that kind of set-up.

For a start off, it's an unwritten rule that Everton always have to play with a big Number 9 that the ball can be lumped up to.

Starting Dobbin, who's not a striker by the way, would mean that the ball would have to be kept on the ground and we rarely see Everton do that, we don't play intricate give-and-goes and partly because we don't have the players but also we never train players to improve ball skills.

I watched him in his early days at the Blues, he scored now and again but I didn't rate him. Then, when he came back from the summer break, he looked a different player, like someone had whispered to him “It's make or break, lad!” He started scoring regularly, was more mobile, led the line better.

He went to Preston on loan and impressed there, they wanted him back. He got rare minutes in the Everton team, we had signed Maupay so his chances were less and he went to Leicester City where, after injury, his improvement has continued.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, not as good as foresight and I bet I wasn't the only supporter who noticed the difference in his play at Everton. Maybe someone at the club pleaded his case but it was ignored? Pity, he could have saved Everton a lot of money and earned us some valuable points.

It was great to meet up with you and the other lads in the Harlech before kick-off. Thanks for that. Definitely the best part of my day in view of how the match turned out. Let's stick to golf from now on!

I am still in shock from handing over a tenner for a pint of Guinness and getting a fiver back in the change.

There was a time when Cannon seemed to have plateaued with us and Dobbin was developing better and faster. I sense that Dobbin is the one to have plateaued. Badly needs meaningful game time.

Training is great but most players learn by being involved in competitive football every week and this is why I think a lot of very talented young footballers end up stagnating in this country.

Everton sold Cannon for pure profit and then signed another young player from a different league who hadn't quite reached the level of the player we sold. Profitability & Sustainability doesn't quite make sense when you analyze decisions like this.

It's as if the reality of developing and improving the youth at Everton no longer matters.

I think the case of Tom Cannon proves it.