Premier League Squads: We will finish 12th

I also think we will out-perform but my bet would be on 14th. My bet is this outperformance comes from a pragmatic manager who can get the best out of players and a fairly settled team (especially in defence). The thing that could really derail us are serious injuries (lose Pickford, Mykolenko, Tarkowski or Gana for long periods and their replacements may struggle to match) or if Dyche tried to change style too much.

Anything higher than 16th would be a success of sorts. I'm feeling as optimistic as I have in a while. Especially looking forward to seeing what Ndiaye can bring when settled.

That said, in life I've experienced worse betrayal, worse hopelessness, and worse anger.

Nonetheless the machinations of Moshiri, Kenwright and those who controlled them still rankle, a lot.

So, near 70 as I am, please forgive me for failing to get excited at all about the perfectly valid, but probably optimistic, prospect of yet another mid-table finish at best.

And as for winning a top-class trophy?

My arse!

Survival is key, with the finance it'll bring to enable yet another season or three of mediocre achievement given the depths to which we've been plunged by those in charge of our club - whomever they are.

If we can endure that, saddled with a new stadium we'll likely have to forever pay for through the nose given the total ineptitude of Kenwright and HIS chosen owner, there may just be a mere chance of becoming a trophy winning contender for a trophy as I near 80.

If I'm lucky.

I am normally a glass half full optimist but my main concerns are compared to last season:-

DCL wants away and is playing like it, Jarrad has been affected by Man U overtures, Young, Seamus, Tarks, Gana and Doucs are a year older and apart from Tark's are showing their age and loss of pace.

We have no backup at FB.

We still haven't addressed the lack of goalscoring throughout the team.

For me the new players will have to get used to playing in a new league.

The lack of a takeover will be playing on players minds.

Ipswich will surprise a few people this season and Leicester are no mugs especially with Cooper winding them up.

I think we are on a par with the bottom 6 or 7 and I would be pleased to top that pile so I'll hope for 14th but think it could be worse.

This year's squad is unquestionably more talented in attack with Ndiaye and Lindstrom, but they have no Prem experience and may need time to bed in. Gana turns 35 next month and he's critical to our defense, with his new understudy Tim having started exactly one PL game.

What makes me optimistic is our pillow-soft early schedule -- we don't see any of those top 4 clubs until Game 15, the Goodison Derby in December. If we can pocket a bunch of points over those first four months, we're in good shape for survival.

Prediction: Lindstrom proves to be a top talent and our strikers improve their consistency a bit, and yes, that includes Dom. That compensates for the problem at RB. 13th for me.

I never predict where we will finish, but there's no reason we can't challenge for Europe. I always believe that. Look at Aston Villa. It wasn't long ago they were in the Championship.

Who would have thought in December 1983 we were going to finish 7th and win the FA Cup? And go on to win the league the following season.

Like many things in life, football is unpredictable.

Don, we'll get that trophy. My son, who is a passionate Evertonian, has never seen us lift one and deserves it more than me.

While this is welcome I don't recall Mr Dyche's teams ever consistently playing to this style with the emphasis having been on defence but I would welcome having options even if it is just to make things/planning a little more difficult for the opposition. However, the recent signings will have barely been with the club for a month come the start to the season and I wonder if it is long enough to settle in while the whole squad has to adapt to a changed system. Having said that Mr Dyche did use Gomes off the bench fairly regularly towards the end or when he was judged fit and injury free.

If it comes off we could end up in the top half of the League and if it doesn't we could find ourselves in a worse position than last season.

Can anyone who has seen the preseason friendlies comment on if they have noticed a changed style, or even just the new buds?

Ipswich will play adventurous football, and it will be down to how quickly teams can pick them off before they go down. Unlikely to be a surprise package.

Southampton will be down there, and I think Brentford could struggle if Toney leaves. Their replacement has already picked up an injury. Forest will struggle.

Brighton and Fulham should have enough quality, and Palace will have the funds to replace outgoings. City and Chelsea are unlikely to get any punishment for their issues. What a joke that is.

I think we will be around the bottom 5 unfortunately.

Yes, last season we went on a long run without a win, and yes we did have points off - but this is a side another year older and that struggles for goals. We are still in trouble financially, and it's not inconceivable to lose Dcl, Branthwaite, Pickford or Dyche through the season due to financial pressure or performances that changes the landscape when we are starting to get some stability.

The squad is thin on numbers before you're scrapping the barrel upfront, full back, central defence and central midfield.

The hope is that Lindstrom and Ndiaye can contribute significantly more than Djanjuma and Dobbin. That doesn't seem hard to achieve. And that will be key to cover fewer goals from an older Doucoure - and a central midfield that could struggle if injuries tell.

Dcl seems to want out, and the chorus seems to be getting louder from supporters to make that happen. Beto is a poor replacement, and we don't have the money to buy a 5 star striker to give what perhaps DCL lacks.

Thankfully Dyche is the manager and still has faith in Dcl during preseason. He's resisted the temptation to bring Brenton Diaz or other donkeys put up by some supporters who misunderstand what it needs at the elite level. Spurs and Chelsea are still looking for a top striker with resources far greater than ours.

Philips on loan looks like it's happening. It's a shame it's not happened earlier in the summer, as he will be unlikely to start the preseason with us. And I think that could have made a big difference to get him in the right place.

The deal for the verona right back remains on the table. Outgoings look like Holgate and Maupay.

Maupay is Everton all over. Struggled with us, speaks out of turn and available for a couple of million at 27 and 9 goal involvements last season. He is bizarrely what we need, but that ship has sailed. A valuable lesson in keeping your mouth shut and let your football do the talking.

Finish - 15th.
Relegation if we lose Dyche.
Best - 12th if the squad remains in tact, no bad injuries.

1. Dyche has a tremendous track record of overperforming the quality / level of investment in the squad.

2. At least two of our rivals will underperform. My predictions are Fulham who look very weak defensively and (presumably post Toney) Brentford - but could be others for all sorts of reasons.

3. We did it last year in greater adversity.

Thank you.

However, the new faces need to hit the ground running and exceed market valuations otherwise Dyche will be deemed to have gambled and failed. Inevitably resulting in the sack.

No idea how we'll do but decades of experience suggests never be optimistic about Everton

Start like last season and we'll be sweating cobs until season's end, even without points deductions!

However, the beauty of football is it's unpredictable. Dyche has shown he can cope with adversity and we're bound to face even more of that as the club remains adrift.

I'm not really bothered where we finish as long as we stay up. We're not in a position to qualify for Europe or win a trophy as we fall further behind the Top 6 and more.

I just hope to see us play more exciting, competitive football with the quality players we've added. Less Dycheball and more belief. Fans want entertaining football not perennial backs to the wall. This season hopefully will see more of the former than the latter.

I watched Ipswich destroy Millwall last season and I'm sure they will definitely try to play more like Burnley than Luton, so unless the new signings can strengthen them physically, I'd expect them to struggle in the ultra-physical Premier League.

Two or three more signings (three if Calvert-Lewin leaves), would make us competitive and, if we get off to a decent start, I'd expect Everton to achieve mid-table, although I'd sooner take 17th place and win a cup! 🤞

It was nice being in cloud cuckoo land.

As long as no further points deductions appear, I think we will be okay. There will surely be three teams who do worse than us.

I take it with a pinch of salt but will say that, with a fair wind, we will finish top half. I'm going as high as 8th.

At the moment we have
Pickford, Virginia
Patterson, Holgate*, Keane*, Tarkowski, Young, Mykolenko, Coleman, Branthwaite, O'Brien
McNeil, Harrison, Decoure, Gueye, Garner, Lindstrom
Calvert-Lewin, Maupay*, Beto, Ndiaye,

Irogebunam and Chermiti are young enough to not count in the 25 so that is the 21 above. Add in Alli but hopefully lose the three * and that still only leaves us with 19 players leaving space for 6 more signings.

And this is where we get to the debate.
a. We can only loan 2 players from Premier League Clubs. At the moment we have Zero.
b. We can only loan 6 players in the season.

So does this mean we can fill 4 of the 6 with loans from teams outside the PL? And would we be brave enough to not include one the 3 players in the squad if we cannot find a club to take them on loan or even better to buy?

A few more loan with option to buy in '25?

But you might be right that it's 2 x Premier League (and then what 2 x other?).

Suspect we might get Phillips on loan with an option to buy unless Man City release him for £10M or less.

But maybe we're waiting to see what happens with Calvert-Lewin because we might need a loan spot for Broja or Fofana from Chelsea...

Loans between Premier League clubs and other English counterparts are officially called temporary transfers.

Under the rules in the Premier League Handbook 2024/25, there are restrictions on how many players Premier League clubs can loan from other Premier League/English clubs.

They are:
- Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time.
- The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.
- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.
- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club.

With the exception of Welsh clubs competing in the competitions listed under Rule V.6.2, loans from a club in membership of another National Association do not count towards the above quotas.

These rules were introduced by the Premier League ahead of the 2019/20 season. They have continued to change in recent years, with FIFA announcing in January 2022 that by July 2024, the number of players allowed to be loaned out and loaned in will be reduced from eight to six. Jul 16, 2024.

The way I read this is 2 from Premier League clubs and up to four from other leagues including the Championship.

Isn't Harrison on loan from Leeds or don't they count not being in the Premier League?

Sorry, Jay, didn't see yours at the time of typing.

What excites me most about the season is watching how the likes of O'Brien, Iroegbunam and Chermiti develop — and wouldn't it be great if Patterson can get in a good rhythm, knuckle down and claim the right-back spot that he should really already have made his own by now.

Although, being negative, it's going to be another tough season — the most important thing is developing a squad of players capable of playing in the top half of the Premier League and beyond. We could be really good in a couple of seasons. Really good.

You've left out Billy Crellin (24) and Harry Tyrer (22) who I'm sure will take up 2 more slots in the 25-man squad as we've often seen Sean Dyche needs to feel the added security of those extra goalkeepers on the subs bench.

I expect more of the same this season, tight games with scrappy football. If we can be a bit more clinical, then we may move up the table, if Pickford, Tarkowski or Branthwaite get injured or fail to reach last season's heights, then we may struggle.

Finances do not always equate with performances and results. But, needless to say, the deepest pockets seem a hemisphere away and continue to get benefits and protections from the North Wharf Road crew,

I think that we had spirit and a visible unity last season and that is something that is not quantifiable or measurable and I hope it continues.

If it does, 12th is not at all out of the question but I tend to put us in the 12th-15th bracket. "Non-entities" is a tad harsh, though I do think that those you put in the bracket above us are spending and recruiting well for the most part. Although Palace have lost or are losing key players and Sarr is no Olise.

Brentford have not done much. Nor have Wolves, I could easily see us finishing above those three with some promising recruitment ourselves with possibly more to come (if we can pull Dyche away from his favourites.

And in our murky depths, I think that Fulham are doing some decent wheeling and dealing.

I wouldn't write all three of the newly promoted teams off, Robert. They are nowhere near as poor as the three from last season. All three have good managers; all three have some quality, though Leicester look a little thin. At least one and perhaps two of those three will stay up.

When all is said and done, Robert, and all of us are on our first game of the season high, the sun is blazing away, the songs are in full swing, that first Z-Cars drum comes crashing in, and the XI run out to face Brighton as the crowd roars and the Old Lady rocks:

Pickford, Young, Tarkowski (Dyche's stubby tory fingers tightly crossed), Keane, Mylolenko, Gana, Garner (Dyche's stubby tory fingers tightly crossed), McNeil, Harrison, Doucoure, Calvert-Lewin.

I hope they do but, if they don't, I just can't see where the goals are coming from. Injuries to our aging midfielders will be critical and could be a determining factor in our final league position.

I am not going to bang on about signing proven goalscorers and creative midfielders — we all know the financial score on that situation. So it would seem even more incumbent on Thelwell to demonstrate his skills in the loan and free agency market to fill the gaps and stop the leaks in the Dyche. (Sorry about that one… I'll get my coat!)

So Phillips reluctantly may be an option to try, and Melo's name seems to be still around although that's probably agent or media talk. So for me making any kind of prediction on where we will finish is a total lottery. If signings work out, we could be mid-table; if not, bottom 5 and hoping there are 3 worse teams than us yet again!

We have the players to be relatively secure. We call on players who we think are crap but they are better, and often more experienced, than the options the worst sides have.

My worry is what happens if DCL goes. Does anyone knows what our record with vs without him is? Gut feel says it's not a pretty picture.

Market values aren't worth much if you're missing one end of the team and relying on Beto feels hopeful rather than possible until he shows otherwise.

As Ernie says on most sensible metrics we are only just above the promoted clubs. So inevitably it will be hard.

Whilst other commentators think the points deduction galvanised us last season, I think that is only part of the story. Initially yes. Which is testament to Dyche and the squad. But I think the second deduction then completely demoralised them and they had to dig deep to regroup and then finish strongly to finish (without the deduction) 12th.

I am assuming (possibly wrongly) that there isn't a PSR issue this year.

Who knows the takeover may even be complete by January which would be a lift too.

I think we will lose at least one of Calvert-Lewin or Branthwaite, possibly both. That's a miserable prediction, I know, but Calvert-Lewin says he wants to leave and Branthwaite has probably had his head turned.

I think it's more likely to be a nailbiter again, that's my best guess, and we will do well to finish 15th… in fact, I'd take that now.

Calvert-Lewin wants to leave?

Bit of evidence?

Here is a clue:

"Calvert-Lewin is refusing to sign a new contract or an extension."

FYI, our wage bill is about 11th highest so you're 12th prediction seems quite accurate.

With Branthwaite, who knows what will happen? Maybe the club feels that we can't afford to lose him… I hope so.

This has thinned out, but we aren't out of the woods just yet.

Keane is the last inflated wage signing I think. You could argue Doucoure is on too much but think we had to get another year out of him. Once Keane and Holgate are gone, I think the weeding's done.

Now for that illusive right-back… I really don't want Coleman starting for the first 4 or 5 games.

A squad of players ended up playing another season under massive pressure so it will be interesting to see how they perform this season, especially if a decent start helps take a lot of that pressure away.

My only worry is that none of our new signings have played in the Premier League before, but otherwise I am confident that Everton will have a much better season than we have had since the crowd have been allowed back into the ground.

Frank — should ensure Brentford remain clear of relegation.

Glasner — will achieve safety with Palace. With a poor coach and that squad, they would go down.

McKenna — Ipswich will not struggle in the way some of the recently promoted sides have but they will likely be in the battle.

Cooper — A solid operator. Leicester don't have an abundance of talent left. But this is a good manager and one that won't panic and I expect their board not to panic either.

Dyche — should (fingers crossed) do a Dyche job

Therefore I think those teams may all be okay.

Martin — Southampton have a strong character in charge here. I feel his character may be his undoing. He'll pick fights when they aren't needed or helpful and ultimately they lack quality.

Brighton I expect may underperform. If this means struggle, I'm not sure. But I don't expect them to be comfortably mid-table or pushing beyond this.

Bournemouth and Wolves also have very good managers. Should Bournemouth lose Solanke, then they lose an enormous piece of their success last season.

Defensively, I'm not sure how Wolves will be. If it is a weakness, then they will be vulnerable. If Matheus Cunha moves on, they will be massively vulnerable. And if those things happen and Pedro Neto cannot find a consistent run of fitness, then they will definitely struggle.

Interesting times.

Denis # 47, illustrated by the above point re Calvert-Lewin, wages can be quite a misleading guide as to quality. Man Utd would have won the league last year based on wages.

As the original piece said, to my mind the wage tables just tell you how wisely (or not) you are spending your money. As we know, 2016 to 2021 was a period of staggeringly unwise spending for us — and the legacy is a bottom 5 quality side with mid-table wages.

Contributing heavily to the wage bill last season were Alli and Gomes, who (despite an unexpectedly good couple of games from Gomes) contributed essentially nothing on the pitch.

The teams who spend less didn't have that kind of player as their last resort.

I'm not arguing that the expenditure on Gomes (or anyone else) was good value, but it didn't have zero impact. We got some quality for our wage pounds. We spend midtable money on our squad and it gives us an advantage over our relegation rivals.

Firstly, I think Gomes only started 2 league games last season but might be wrong.

Secondly, who are the teams who have spent less? No teams have invested less in their squad in the Premier League (and quite a few in the Championship) than Everton since the summer window closed in 2020. And the gulf with the likes of Bournemouth, Palace, Forest, Brentford etc is huge - equivalent to buying a whole first 11 of £30m players.

Finally, Gomes might have a glamorous backstory which led us to pay £22m for him 5 years ago, but the reality is that he's a very mediocre player indeed. Hence at 31 he's struggling to find himself another club.

Is he better than the 2nd string players at Brentford, Bournemouth, Wolves and Forest? Personally I'd much rather have the following players available that Gomes...

- Onyeka
- DaSilva
- Bellegarde
- Doyle
- Dominguez
- Yates
- Scott
- Cook

I can't see any advantage of having Gomes over any of the above listed players. The disadvantage was that we tied up so much wage money in the Gomes deal that we had the disadvantage of PSR issues and a reduced kitty on genuinely productive players.

A large Amen to that Robert, a very large and loud Amen!

Like Andrew, I'm curious as to how teams with a new manager will perform. New RS boss following Klipperty could go south quickly, they didn't even finish his era too strongly. West Ham fans seemed unhappy with Moyes in the main, how will Lopetegui do (especially if without Paqueta)? And there's usually a few sacked before Christmas.

I'm feeling pretty confident about us finishing between 10th and 14th if there's no points deductions this season. Hopefully higher!

One question: Did you type AN Other or is that something TW automatically does? I've seen it numerous times on here instead of "another".

Those so we're often told Guardian DNA Everton haters have us at 14th, but I'm with you mate, 10th to 14th, and with my Alan Ball footy 1971 card in my hand, maybe 9th.

Our problem is that when Moshiri arrived he had so convinced himself he was going to get us into the top 4 that he handed out large (almost CL level) wages to a lot of players who were in fact of a mid table quality.

Good points and obviously I think we will be relatively defensively well organized yet again with old school defending and defenders.

Bad points are obviously same as has been for a number of years, lack of goals and a lack of dynamism down the flanks (I include the fullbacks in that).

I really hope Dyche trusts Ndiaye and Lindstrom this season and they don't just become Danjuma the second coming.

In Ndiaye and Lindstrom you may get inconsistency but they both look like they have something in their armours that McNeil and Harrison don't possess, pace and trickery.

Time will tell.

But I feel 15th or 16th is the best we can hope for. The squad is still very thin and we will be vulnerable to injuries and transfer bids in the winter window.